The way it comes out on that peninsula, and you just get these outstanding, you know, near circumferential views of the canyon. It's amazing.

You're listening to the Grand Canyon Hiker Dude Show, the voice of Grand Canyon Hiking, presented by Hiken. Hiking packs and gear built to help you hike your best hike. Here's your guide, Brian Special.

It's part two of our rim to river breakdown as we lay out the routes you can do in a day from the South Rim. Last week, it was New Hance and Hermit, a couple of off corridor routes whose halfway points are iconic rapids on the Colorado River. And this time, we talk about Tanner and the corridor trails. I'm joined again by my friend Eric Nelson, an experienced Grand Canyon Hiker who I recently did the Hermit Rim to River with. Eric is a physician from Prescott, Arizona.

He's developed quite the canyon obsession over the years. So we will start this time with the Tanner Trail. This is one I did in January this is one I did in January with doctor Tom Myers and Eric did a short time later. It's the one I remember as the toughest rim to river route, but Eric, well, he remembers it differently. All about perspective.

This is the Grand Canyon Hiker Dude Show powered by Hiken. See our front front access, Canyon designed hiking packs at hiken.club. That's hikin.club.

I wanna know your numbers on Tanner because to me, Tanner felt easier than Hermit. I would say like 20% easier. Wow. I don't know why, but it felt a lot easier to me in general. And it's supposed to be 20 miles, but I on my GPS, I was only getting about 15 miles, and I don't know what you got for your records on Tanner.

Yeah. So Tanner, 16.26 miles. Uh-huh. 5,850 vertical

It's more.

Feet. It's

it's eight 600 feet more than Hermit.

That's including I mean, you gotta keep in mind that there are downs with the ups and ups on the down. Yeah. So Right. Yeah. So it's there's some times where where that happens.

So it's not 5,850 vertical feet from rim to river, but the hike itself is 5,800 vertical. Exactly. Yes.

So it has the most vertical of of the three.

It does. Interesting. And it's so it's so interesting you say that. And it's just so interesting that hikers can have different perspectives on things because I remember specifically when I finished New Hance with Joe Okay. Looked at Joe and I was like, man, that was tough.

I go, but Tanner was tougher. Here's you. Saying that Hermit's tougher. So I think Tanner was the toughest of Yeah. Of of of all of them.

Yeah. Tanner I mean, the finish is rough. The first two miles ish are is rough going down and coming up, but the rest of Tanner is it's I think it's kind of a breeze. It's really it's a fun hike. It's just really relaxing.

It's a lot of climbing, but it's it's so it's so steady. The red wall's steep, but the rest of it is just this nice steady downhill all the way to the river and all the way back up. But just my experience at Tanner was I had to start I'd never done it, and I had to start in the dark. And so first finding the trail was a bit of a trick as it can be if you haven't done one before. So I parked, and I went down.

But then once I was on it, I thought the cairns were pretty well marked. There was a little bit of rubble. I was not in the snow, which I believe you were. And then by the time I got down almost to the end of the supine when the sun came up, So I was pretty far in when the sun finally came up, and then I took the red wall and just kinda went to the river. And in fact, I was started thinking, this trail's kinda boring, which is probably the wrong way to do it.

When I turned around and came back up, I had a completely different experience. It was it was lovely. I loved that trail. Yeah.

Interesting. Yeah. Again, we'll talk about that perspective thing. Because to me Yeah. Tanner's a relatively new discovery.

I've been on it several times now. But it's at Lippen Point. So you're on Highway 64. Just when you enter the park on the east side at the east entrance, past Desert View where the big tower is, is Lippen Point. And Lippen Point has become my favorite viewpoint in the canyon.

It's absolutely stunning because it opens up to with that. Yeah. I'm sure. I'm sure. It opens up to the east and to the west, and you can see the expanse is so wide Right.

Of what you can see, and you can see the river for much of it.

And you can see the river meander back and forth through multiple thing. It's really cool.

And for whatever reason, when you're at Lippen Point and you see the river down there, there's some kind of an optical illusion that happens because the canyon doesn't feel as deep there to me as it does in in other places, and it turns out That

makes sense. Yeah.

It turns out it's actually deeper. So there is something about that that viewpoint. And now when you dive down the Tanner Trail, which is, to your point, not the easiest thing to find, you have to know where it is. It's just down the road that you drove up into the parking lot on to the left.

If you're in the parking lot, you come back up on your left You

go down on your left. You know?

Yeah. Go down. Yeah. So that to the east.

Yeah. And you'll see the sign that says Tanner Trail. And this one is the steepest of all of the trails that we've talked about so far for the first mile. I mean, we're talking over 1,200 vertical feet in just the first mile. It is a monster, and I think that probably is

It's rough.

A big part of the reason why I, you know, ultimately, recency bias, you know, I would just came up, so I'm gonna say that that was the hardest one because it is the steepest, and we did have snow that we were dealing with that day. But the views on Tanner 0, get from down there are when you get down there to the Redwall, and and and then Mhmm. Below it, it's almost like it is at Lippen Point, except it's getting lower. It's expansive in all directions, and I don't think there's any views like it except for South Kaibab.

I really love the section between when you finally go down through the steep part to the saddle, and then you're on a relatively flat section between there and the Red Wall. I don't know. I think you're in the Supai again, but it's just it's just beautiful. It's just there's all these pillar rock pillars, and it's just very interesting terrain. Very enjoyable.

Yeah. And you get to the Red Wall, that viewpoint is very worth taking a left off the trail, and going uphill, you know, another couple ten, twenty feet, and getting that viewpoint. It's amazing.

I think I missed that one,

unfortunately. Oh, dude.

I think I missed that. I was with I was with Doctor. Myers on that hike. Yeah. We did it in January.

I don't think we saw that viewpoint. But man, talk about going through the Red Wall. Again, like all these hikes are, going down through the Red Wall is the most difficult section typically, because the breaks in the Red Wall are few and far between in the canyon, and you can look across the canyon at the Red Wall, you can see why. It's like, how is anyone ever gonna get through there?

What's great about this is you can really see the breaks that you're gonna climb up. Unlike, you know, on South South Kaibab, you you don't really see how you're gonna get through it. This one is you can really see the rubble pile that you're gonna end up going down or up. It's kinda fun.

Yeah. I think Harvey Butcher mapped, I think it was a 110 breaks in the Redwall across the canyon, and the 12,000 miles of hiking that

he did.

Wow. So not a lot when you consider the amount of acreage that the the canyon consumes. But this one is another one, kinda like New Hance, where you get down to a creek bed, and you walk through that for a very long time.

But it's not as challenging a creek bed as New Hance, I would say.

I agree.

Yeah. But it was it was great, and the river, I unfortunately, I blanked. My memory of the river is not much. I I I was there shortly, filled water, and took off. I probably didn't take enough time to take it in.

Another incredible rapid, another great place to stop, another huge payoff, another exhilarating, just everything I said about Mhmm. Hermit and New Hance. When you get to the rapids, there's just something about it, man. That's just such a great payoff. And you're tired, it's the end of a of a long descent, which can can beat the heck out of you, and you get down there and just see that water.

I mean, you're at the bottom of the Grand Canyon. Just having that in your mind is cool, isn't it?

Yeah. And, yeah, it was it was awesome. And then the climb out is is just lovely. It's not some canyon hikes are these these crazy steep sections. Tanner is just it's steady is the thing from the river.

I mean, from the moment you leave the riverbed until you hit the red wall, it's just a nice, steady grade the entire time. There's no ups and downs, and then you have a steep burst up the red wall, and you have a relatively flat section to that saddle, and then you have a really steep final mile and a half.

That's a good point. It's kind of in steps. You're right. The only significant ones are the red wall section, and then the the final push to the to the top.

And that final push is very hard. I think I was just having a great day, because I'd seen nobody, and I was by myself, and so I don't care if I I don't feel the pressure to go any certain speed, so I just go really slow. And it was it was very challenging and and great.

You're making me question myself why I thought this was so difficult, but for some reason, I didn't.

Don't trust my memory. I forget things like I forget stuff all the time. When I the second time I did Boucher, I forgot that there was a massive sup high climb, which is obvious this is the bigger of the two climbs. I just thought, oh, we're through the red wall. Forgot about this.

Oh, and forgot there was a giant second climb.

So those are the three off corridor trails Yeah. That that offer rim to river routes. You know, you can cobble together really any route that you want. These are the ones that are the most, you know, just direct to the river and back. I mean, you could always say, hey, a rim to river route is to go down Tanner, and then go all the way to Hermit Rapid.

Right? I mean, you could Right. Technically do It's gonna be 80 miles, but you could technically do it.

Let let's put out a warning too. There you should not. These trails have no water on them. No. Permit probably has the most of any of them because you have that Santa Maria Springs, you know, two thirds of the way up.

Tanner has no water None. At all until the river. New Hands has a little tiny creek that sometimes runs about a quarter, half a mile up from the river. But if you pass that and you don't have your water full, you're out of water till the rim. And Tanner is incredibly exposed to sunlight, So it is absolutely not a place to go anytime it's warm.

New Hands is probably a little more protected, but none of them are anything you should be thinking about doing in summer.

No. In summer, or in the shoulder seasons even. Mean, it's just it's just too hot and too dangerous down there, And if you get yourself in trouble, you you're not gonna see anybody else.

And go go heavy on water. One thing I did on Tanner is I I brought in a gallon, but then I I actually I parked two half of it, you know, at the Redwall, because I figured I could fill in the river and I'd be okay.

This is another another kind of interesting point about how hikers are are different. You and your trip report in our in our Facebook group, Hike Club Grand Canyon, you pointed this out, made a little smarty kinda comment about my eating and drinking habits. But we're we're very different, and hikers Yeah. Are different in what they pack and what they consume in the canyon, which you and I found out on our on our hermit hike.

That was interesting. I I felt like you ate very little, and you had great performance, even though you ate very little. If I eat very little, I tend to just after about three or I'm good for about three or four hours, and then I will dwindle. So I know if I wanna if I wanna perform for twelve, whatever, fourteen hours, I I just gotta kinda eat consistently.

And you schedule it, essentially?

Pretty much, yeah.

Yeah. And what do pack? Pack? What you had a lot of food packed. You call yourself a weight weenie, right?

Yeah. Love to shed weight and and save ounces here and there, but Not food. That's so it fits all the food that you carry, I'm thinking.

Exactly, yes. I guess you carry your fears, and I don't like running out of food.

What did you have on that hike? How much stuff did you have on that hike we did?

I had a Hickory Farms salami log, or what do we call it? A summer sausage log that I pre precut, and then I had basically a 16 ounce block of cheddar cheese that I precut, and then I take you know, each each of those is about 80 to 90 calories each. So if you eat two of those, it's about a 160, and then I'll supplement sometimes I'll supplement that with a goo, which is a 100 calories. That's a that's a carbohydrate. So then you're getting plenty of fat, plenty of salty meats, and plenty of carbohydrates.

I've actually gotten away from the candy stuff like the the Mike and Ikes and the that just doesn't appeal to I found out you you kinda have to do the the trial and error and see what's left in your pack at the end of a hike. You pack a bunch of variety of foods. I never come back with an apple. I can tell you that much. I always eat those.

I will come back with nuts. I will come back with some of the sugary stuff. So I I don't know. I've tried to simplify because I tried to do, you know, peanut butter jelly tortillas. That didn't too much agree with me.

I tried little tortillas with deli meats and cheese. That didn't that wasn't too great. Also, I took a I think I took a Subway sandwich on this last hike. I used to use those a lot. I'm I don't think I'm gonna do that again.

That was way too salty. So you just gotta I don't know. Try it. So that's where I'm at. How how you you've had trouble with stomach issues.

I tend to not really want to eat after ten ish. You know, right around ten hours, I tend to be like, ugh. I don't wanna do this anymore. Yeah. But I know I need it.

Yeah. Yeah. I've I feel like stomach issues for me that you mentioned always are a result of the heat. I feel like every problem that I've ever had in

the canyon is a result

of the heat, and the cumulative effect of the heat, which will catch up with you later on long hikes. I tend to do what Doctor. Myers, who, you know, is such a he knows a lot about hyponatremia, he knows a lot about the heat related illnesses that can strike you in the canyon, and so I tend to follow the advice that he's always given, and that's just listen to your body, and drink when you're thirsty. Your body's gonna tell you when you need to drink. A lot of people I know will time their drinking and say, I've gotta drink this much at this time, and I've gotta take these electrolytes.

First of all, this time of the year, I don't worry about electrolytes.

Yeah, it's not a really big deal right now.

Right, you're not gonna sweat. I'm not a big sweater anyway, but especially not at this

time of

the year, I'm not really gonna sweat much at all. So I don't need the electrolytes, I can get them from the potato chips I have at the river, or from Exactly. Other So I don't really worry about that. Again, listen to your own body out there. Don't take this as advice as something you should do.

But when it comes to drinking Mhmm. And when it comes to drinking water, I do not make myself drink, I do not force myself to drink ever.

Mhmm. Agreed.

And I listen to to my body, and this entire day, you're probably not gonna believe how much water I ended up drinking for this entire day. Take a guess.

Okay. Tell me. I mean, you had you started with a three liter bladder,

and I think you had a

one one liter, one and a half maybe.

Two liter bladder. I had a liter and a half when I was done. No way. I only drank a half liter water.

You drank 500 all day?

500? Yes. Yes. And I don't I'm not saying that as a flex. I'm not saying that as anything other than we're all different.

You feel completely dry going home?

No. I felt I felt great. I felt great. I finished strong. I felt great.

You were chugging water in your car on the way home or anything?

No. I mean, I'll definitely drink some water and and and have a Coke or something.

Yeah. Well, I mean, humans humans tolerate dehydration very well. That's that's in our, you know, in our heritage, more so than overhydration, to be honest. But I think maybe because I'm eating the foods that have more salt in them and that sort of thing, I need more water. I don't know.

I just kinda go I I like you, I I only drink to my thirst. I'm not forcing myself to drink, but I'm pretty thirsty sometimes. And I mean, I I probably go through three to 400 ml of water an hour, which is basically your daily requirement. What the heck? That's incredible, Brian.

Yeah. Well, I Yeah. On a hot day

on a hot day can be significantly Totally different.

Totally different.

It it was cool. Different.

Yeah. It was. Yeah.

It was

a it was a cool day. Like I said, not sweating that much. Just not a big deal.

Well, you didn't eat much either. So I I think you just you just didn't eat But

I But I did. Did. At the at the at the bottom, at the river, I you know, I have I've taken the taken peanut butter and jelly Uncrustables, and which is essentially a a sandwich, peanut butter and jelly sandwich to go, and having some chips with that, then a celebratory honey bun, which has become a traditional

chicken So how many calories was that?

I don't know. Know. I figured I ate

about 3,000 calories that day.

Oh, yeah. No, I had less than a thousand for sure.

You're you're less than a thousand, yeah.

And then I just don't feel like eating typically. But I was Yeah. I felt fine. Again, so There you go. What I'm trying to say, and that what the lesson is, because you hear it all the time in the Facebook group, and people wanna know, they want like a prescription almost for

They want a formula. Yeah.

That's right. They want a formula. Yes. They want and and they're gonna follow it. And I just I just wanna make it so clear, I think it's, we're all just different.

We all have different needs. Our bodies are different. And I think if you listen to your body, you're gonna be fine.

Yeah. And part of the formula is you gotta go out and do it.

Yes, promise.

And you gotta go out and sometimes suffer, you know, and sometimes be, well, that was a bad idea. This didn't work out. And and that is it's through those experiences that you can refine both the load that you carry and the things that you carry and the amounts of things that you carry. And that's just been I'm still doing that. I'm still learning.

So 100%. That that never stops. Yeah. And then your body's gonna react differently in different environments.

That too. I mean, so there's so many variables. So ultimately, you just, you know, you gotta be okay with how how things go, you know? Yeah. You just enjoy the day.

You earned it. You did it. Yeah. You know? Yeah.

You gotta get yourself out of there.

Yep.

Okay. So those are the three off corridors. So I think it's important that we spend some time here talking about the corridor trail, rim to rivers, because ultimately, if I'm wrecking recommending rim to river to someone, especially they don't have canyon experience, they've never been to the canyon, they're gonna be there one time. Yep. Listen, I think the old tried and true, traditional classic Rim to River routes that originate on South Kaibab or Bright Angel are it.

Would you agree with that?

Shade can save your life. See when and where you'll have shade on your hike by using our Grand Canyon Shade Tracker at hiking.club. Sun and heat can kill in the canyon. Shade Tracker lets you keep your time in it to a minimum. Our advanced technology lets you plan your hike by zooming in on your exact trail so you can see when and where you'll have shade any minute, any day of the year.

Try it for yourself at hikein.club. That's hikin.club. And hike your best and safest hike.

Absolutely. My first hike in the Grand Canyon was the classic South Kaibam to the river across and up Bright Angel. And it was it was awesome.

That's the first that's the first Grand Canyon hike you ever did?

Yeah.

Woah. I mean, that's a big hike. Yeah.

Well, was 31, and I was in good shape, so it wasn't it was hard. I mean, know, but it wasn't like, yeah, it didn't seem overwhelming.

You know, I'd always been a runner, a hiker, and then I'd fallen away from the Grand Canyon for a while. And I remember the first, after rediscovering it, the first Rim To River that I did, which was South the traditional, the classic, South Kaimab to Phantom, or to the river, and then back up Bright Angel. Mhmm. Which is, by the way, let's get the numbers, 16 and a half miles if you go South Kaibab to the river up in the Upright Angel, or 17 and a half if you take the right turn at the at the river at the Delta and go to to Phantom Ranch and check out their lemonade or something. So there's a difference of a of a mile essentially.

4,800 vertical feet down South Kaibab, a little bit more than that, and then 4,400 vertical feet up Bright Angels. So Oh, my god.

I thought all of these were over 5,000 feet. So this shows you how I I have not been paying attention to the numbers.

Well, Northridge 5,800 from rim to river. Oh, right. Yeah. While I bring that up, that is a hike that I would not do rim to river. That that is just

Oh, heck no. Gosh.

That's 28 miles round trip if you go all the way to the river from

Actually, you would do it.

You've done a

bunch of r threes, and it's easier than that.

Well, I guess I have done it in in those. Yeah. But I would not do that as a as a day hike. The last r three that I did last May before the North Rim opened, I remember getting up almost to the top, and I ran into this couple, probably in their sixties, and he looked like he was somewhat happy, she was not happy at all. And I asked him, what were you guys doing up here?

He's like, we're day hiking from Phantom Ranch to we wanted to see the North Rim, and then Oh, boy. Go back down.

I was Well, they're doing it. They're doing it backwards, but they're doing it.

Did you ever consider how significant that hike is from Phantom Almost Ranch 30 miles. To the North Grim and back in a day. Yeah. We're talking it's 28 to the river round trip, so they were doing, you know, essentially 27 miles or so.

Yeah. Right. Right.

With with 5,800 vertical feet. Oh, jeez. That's a little bit more than day hike, so I I think that's why he looked happy, or maybe a little bit nervous masquerading his happiness, and she did not look happy at all. At all. And it's just like, oh, good luck with the rest of your day, guys, because you still got a huge day ahead of you.

But anyway, I digress.

So so so down south let's recap. Down South Kaibab is 44.

4,800 down South Kaibab.

Okay. And then up, Bright Angel is 44.

Yes. Because Bright Angel sits about 400 feet lower, believe it or not, on the rim than South Kaibab does, so it's a little less to the river. Okay. So I was saying that the first time that I did that after getting back into Grand Canyon hiking, you know, I consider myself fit, and I was consider myself in good shape. And I remember coming up that sucker, coming up Bright Angel, it was April, it was kind of warm, and I was just slogging my way up Bright Angel, and I was saying to myself, I am done.

Am so tired. This is the harder one of the hardest things I have ever done. You know? And then of course, then you finish it, you're satisfied, and you're like, I can't wait to do it again. But at that moment, it's like, god, I I can't believe I've gotten myself into this.

What I'm trying to say is we've talked about all these off corridor hikes, but the classic route is very difficult as well.

It is a very challenging hike. Absolutely.

What do you remember about that the first time that you did it?

I was with a bunch of really fit dudes, and it was my first time seeing you know, really getting a chance to be in the Grand Canyon. Was pretty excited. I didn't have a much hiking experience, but I was in pretty good shape from biking, so my cardio was great. And these guys, they up and they were going so fast, so fast, I got really quite angry on the way down because I never got a chance to take a break, even look around. You know what South Kaibab is?

The first time you see it, you're like, what? This is awesome. And I I didn't even hardly get a chance to look at it because I was looking at my feet, so I didn't fall. We had a nice little break down by the river and then came back up, and then the group split up on the way up, and everybody was hoo hoo hoo, man, you know, trying to beat each other out of the canyon. That's that's basically my experience of the day, which is kind of it wasn't the greatest experience.

So Yeah. You weren't necessarily with maybe the people that you should have been with.

They were good they were good people, but they had a different I think they had just a different priority of the day than I I did for that.

And that goes back to that whole thing. That goes to a couple of things. It goes to the group mentality, and it goes to the communication thing. Whereas, you know, if you guys maybe talked about that and set expectations from the beginning, maybe you wouldn't have gotten so ticked off. Right?

Exactly.

Always lessons to learn, man. Always lessons

to That's true. That's true.

So there are multiple ways that you can do rim to river on on the South Rim from Grand Canyon Village. That's the classic route that we talked about, South Kaibab to Phantom or to the river and and then Upright Angel. Another way that you could do it and by the way, that classic route is not an option right now because the Trans Canyon Waterline Project, Silver Bridge, and the River Trail that connects the Phantom Ranch area to the Bright Angel Trail is closed. So both of those are closed.

River is also closed. Is that correct?

The River Trail on the south side of the river, yes, is currently closed because of the Trans Canyon Waterline Project. It's supposed to open up again on July 1, which is no time to be doing river No. At Not at all. Way too hot. The other ways to do it, the only ways to do it now, you could do a round trip on South Kaibab.

Yeah. So that's, again, 4,800 plus vertical feet on the way down, six and a half miles to the river, so about seven and a half to Phantom Ranch, maybe a little bit less than that.

I would highly recommend that. I think that's a great, great trip. Just remember, there's no water.

Yeah. There's no water down South Kaibab, and as long as the weather is okay. South Kaibab is exposed, South Kaibab is steep. It's not something to be messed with in the in the in the warmer months. In the heat.

Yeah. What is your take on on South Kaibab just overall?

I really like it. I mean, you you've turned me over to that. I I didn't pay much attention to it till you kept saying how beautiful it was. And then the next time I went on, I was like, yeah. This this is unbeatable.

The way it comes out on that peninsula, and you just get these outstanding, you know, near circumferential views of the canyon are are they're it's amazing. And it is very it's a very no nonsense trail. You go down it, and you come up it. And it's it's very steep. It's very well built.

I don't like necessarily having to deal with the mules. That's probably one of the downsides of it. But beauty wise, it's great. And it gets the job done. You're not you're not messing around.

You're just gonna get out of the canyon on the South Kaibab. What's the difference in mileage between Bright Angel and South Kaibab?

So if you go down South Kaibab all the way to the river and back, it's six and a half miles to the river. Okay. So you're looking you go down to Black Bridge 13. And back, you're looking at 13 miles. Go to Boat Beach down there.

Know, wade out into the the calm eddy right there, but don't go too far out because that river is is moving. Yeah. By the way, that water down there is always right around 50 degrees year round the It's Colorado always cold. It's always gonna take your breath away even in the middle of summer, but a great halfway point to take your shoes and socks off and dip your feet in that ice cold water will refresh you for the for the way out. If you did a Bright Angel round trip, now you're looking at about 7.7 miles from Rim to Pipe Creek Beach, which technically is where Bright Angel ends.

So it adds nearly three miles to the round trip.

It does, but My that's ride's only that. But most people don't do that. If you're gonna do like a reverse rim to river, then you would typically take the river trail, and go all the way to Phantom Ranch, and cross Silver Bridge, which is a great experience in itself. Yeah. But that, I mean, that's now you're getting nine nine point nine miles, right, at 10 miles to Phantom Ranch down Bright Angel.

But if you wanna just get to the river as fast as you can and get back, 7.7 each way, so that's 15.4 miles and about 4,400 vertical feet. Hardly anybody I've never done that. Hardly anybody does that. Because then you don't get the incredible views of going down South and you have to do just a round trip on Bride Angel, which is which is okay. But if you're gonna do that and the option is available to you, look, it's only another mile to do, to add everything, and go down South Kaibab.

Right. Have that full experience, do that full loop. That's that's definitely the way to do it. But right now, you can't do that, so you could round trip it on Bright Angel or South Kaibab, those are the only ways to do it right now, but you just can't connect to Phantom Ranch and the North Side Of The Colorado River currently by going down Bright Angel. Another way to do it, which is a massive day, but I love this, I've done this several times, is to go down South Kaibab to the river, or all the way to the Phantom if you want, and then go back up South Kaibab to tip-off, 2.1 miles of steep climbing back to the tip-off, and then you are on the Tano Trail, the Tano platform, and you connect with the Tonto Trail there at tip-off.

Take that for four and a half miles across the Tano Platform toward Havasupai Gardens, and then link up with the Bright Angel Trail that way,

and get you a couple of times, and that is that's an outstanding hike. I I think it's a lot of fun. And and it's if you really need to see the river, and you have that extra fitness to be able to do that extra down and back, and the extra mileage on Tonto, I highly recommend that, actually. I did that with John Haley. And in the snow and rain, it was a it was a crazy day.

It was awesome.

Oh, that's the other thing. Weather conditions, you never know what you're gonna get on these hikes. Know.

And but that section between tip-off and the river, I I actually kinda love it. It's really pretty. It's got you can see the trail way ahead of you. It's so it's got that red can you know, almost like Red Canyon on Hance Trail. And coming up at that, I I think I actually think it's a lot of fun.

Yeah. Unless it's at the end of a rim to rim to rim when it's it's not fun at all.

Never fun. Never fun. Rim to rim to rim is But, never yeah, that is a that is a great one. That's a big day. It's getting, let's see, close to 20 miles if you

Yeah. I think was 18 and a half is what I remember, but I I it's been a while.

There's a reason serious Grand Canyon hikers don't stop every mile. Our hike and packs use a front access harness with six pockets. So fuel, hydration, essentials, all stay within reach. You get to keep your rhythm without breaks. Our rim to rim pack and Canyon Elite hiking packs both carry 25 liters.

Choose Canyon Elite for your longer days. It's got a hip belt. Hike without stopping and hike your best hike at hikeand.club. That's hikin.club.

You wanna talk about a full Grand Canyon experience if you do it that way. If you go down South Kaibab with those Kaibab with those incredible views and then you go back up South Kaibab, then you get to meander across the Tonto platform for four and a half miles, which is a different experience in itself. I find Tonto so cool, just because of the feeling of being all alone in the middle of the Grand Canyon. How do you feel when you're out on Tonto?

Oh, it's it's it's feels never ending. It's it's really

Me too.

It's not my favorite hike. I it's one of these things. John really likes being on the Tonto. It yeah. I have come around to it, to to learn to enjoy it.

If you're on the Tonto and you have the mindset, I wanna get this over with, forget it. You're gonna be there a long time. You kinda gotta get the mindset of I'm enjoying this, and it feels like I'm in the Mojave Desert. It's just it's very much desert hiking, desert plants, and if you catch them in a bloom, it can be very beautiful, but it's fun to kinda see how the trail will tantour, as they say, you know, meander up in and maybe find a little creek or something at the top of each of it. And you can get lost, not so much in that section, but other sections of the tanto as it starts to cross the the little secondary canyons, every one of those is a chance to to lose the trail for a bit and find it again.

And so that's kind of the fun part of the fun of the tanto. But I do like what you're saying about this hike. You take South Kaibab to the river. You get that experience. You get to climb part of South Kaibab, which is awesome.

You get to do the tanto and really get that same experience, and then you get the incredible experience of Havasupai Gardens to the rim. That that is that's gotta be one of my favorite sections of the trail. Even though there's a lot of there is a lot of traffic on that. It's so dang cool to come up to the red wall and say, how how are we gonna get through this? You look at this picture.

You get this 300 foot cliff in front of you, and then at the last minute, the trail just turns and and somehow somehow gets up, and I I still always wonder, how does that happen?

I love that section you're talking about. You're talking about essentially when you're meandering out of Havasupai Gardens, and

Yeah.

The red wall is just looming right in front of you.

It's right there, and about a you're you got about a quarter half mile to get to it, and then it just somehow you go red

and black. It's usually in shade, so it's ominous And then you get near the top, and you get to the Coconino up there, where it's essentially like the Red Wall, but it's the white Coconino sandstone, which is just sheer just sheer cliff up there near the And that's almost the same as the the the Red Wall. It's just just as ominous, and you don't really see the Coconino like that in another place in the canyon that I have seen on any of the other trails.

I have not paid attention to that. I'm gonna do that next time I go through That's why I like when you point these things out, it gives me something to pay attention to next time I go through.

Yeah, likewise. So those are the main routes that you can do from the corridor trails. If again, if I'm picking one to advise someone to do, and it's available, which again it's not currently, it would be the South Kaibab to Phantom to Bright Angel, that's gonna get you 17 and a half miles. It is a big, big hike. Yeah.

You're gonna feel it at the end, but it's gonna excite you to come back and do more and more and more in the canyon. Oh, yeah. That's the one I would choose, if I could pick any of them. If you had one of these hikes, one of these four that we have talked about, I guess more than four, if you count all the different corridor variations, but between Newhance, Tanner, Hermit, and any of the corridor trails, you already kind of said it in the beginning, has anything that we've talked about changed your thinking that New Hance would be the one that you would choose if you had to do one? I think I

would tailor it, is it for me, or is it

to It's for tailor you. It

to

I'm gonna say first of all, for you, and second of all, for whomever.

I don't know. I kinda I I just did Hermit. I think Hermit's awesome, but I don't like the helicopter traffic. That's the one thing that bugs me about it. I like Tanner.

I think probably Tanner to the River, or I would do a loop hike that goes down Grand View and up New Hampshire or vice versa. Down New Hampshire and up Grand View.

Both of

those are that's it's a really nice thing. It ends at a rapid, and you you don't have to come up the same trail.

So you're changing tune a little bit.

I I I kinda am, yeah.

As you have a right to do.

What can I say? There's there's a lot of great hikes in the Grand Canyon. There really isn't a bad hike. It's just No. Figure out what your day looks like and what your body can tolerate and go for that.

And they're gonna provide a different experience every day Everyone. Of year, how you're feeling. So

Yep. I've never done hands to the river and back in a day, so I think I would that's the one I would go for. My next, probably my next one I wanna try.

Fair enough. What's the one you would recommend to someone who's coming to the canyon for the first time to do a big hike?

It would totally 100% depend on the person, and their fitness, and their preparation, and everything else. But I do think if you've never been to the Grand Canyon, you gotta do the South Kaibab. Yeah. South Kaibab to the river, and then if you're so depending on your fitness, you either go back up South Kaibab, or you come across Tonto to Bright Angel. That would be the way to go, I think, for a first timer.

And the trail's so much easier to find. There's a lot of traffic, so you're safe. Well, safer. And the trail is not nearly as rugged, so you can kinda move along on it.

Yeah. On the corridor trails, you're never gonna be alone for long, depending on the time of the year, unless it's the middle of the summer, then you might. But you're always gonna run into someone, there are bailout points when it comes to emergency phones

Right.

Shelter, water I cannot recommend

an off corridor trail to a first time Grand Canyon Hiker.

No, I couldn't either.

Dear

hear Not that they couldn't do it, but they're just it it just increases risk. Unless you're gonna do it with someone who's done it before.

Right.

That would change the the calculus, of course. Right. Last thing, what is it about the canyon that, you know, I feel like you've become, as I followed your journey over the last couple of years, I feel like you've become more and more obsessed with it. What is it, as someone who lives in Prescott, Arizona, which is a couple hours away from the South Rim, What is it for you that keeps you coming back over and over again?

Well, it's it's it's accessible. It's within striking distance for me. So I can I can make a big day of it, and get there in two and a half hours, and get back the same day? So that's great. It lets me my life is filled with a lot of mini adventures.

I don't I don't go out of town a whole lot. I love Prescott. There's a there's a multitude of great trails here in Prescott. The Grand Canyon, just a very special place. It's very wild.

I think for some people, it's probably like visiting the ocean. It's it's got the same kind of feeling to it. And so when you can get there, and you can get there early in the morning in the dark, and you can frighten yourself a little bit with how empty it is, and you can feel this wind coming off the the edge of the canyon and the coldness and and just the alone feeling and the challenge of of trying to find that root, the challenge of, you know, will your body do what you need it to do for the length of this day? All those things sort of add up to just a really, for me anyway, a really fun experience of nearly dying and then coming back from it and feeling really, really good for a couple of weeks after that hike. I don't know that it's an obsession.

I I consider myself a very sophomore kinda level Canyon person at this point, so I'm learning.

I think none of us ever stop learning about the Canyon. I I feel the same way as well. It's almost like you have impostor syndrome when you're there. But

Yeah. Know. A 100%.

There's so much to to take in that, you know, we're all we all we all never stop learning, and that's what

Yeah. I I don't know why I'm on this podcast. I'm I am far from an expert in this. I've just done it a few times more than some other people, but I mean, the real are, they're not talking about it, they're out there doing it.

There are definitely levels to this, but you've reached a certain level where you have suddenly a lot of Grand Canyon experience, and I think it's well worth sharing with others, because that's really what we're all about. I think everything we talk about ultimately helps people and that is ultimately the goal of everything that we do here. So Yeah. Thank you, my friend, for taking the time to do this today. I learned a lot.

I'm just grateful that we had a chance to meet. We had a chance to hike together, and I have no doubt that that time from Hermit to the Hermit Rapid and back was just the beginning for us, so we're gonna hike many more times here in the future.

So Oh, man. I I would like that so much. And Brian, I I thank you so much for what you've done for the Grand Canyon and for the Grand Canyon community, and I just it's great. I I love your heart, I love what you've done with the Facebook group, and the hiking thing, and the pack, and everything else. I get my pack today, so I'm gonna put that through the ringer.

That'll be fun.

Well, thanks to doctor Eric Nelson for all his time in helping out with the rim to river breakdown, and you heard it for grabbing one of our Canyon Elite packs. It's sales of those that support this show and everything we do and all the free resources we offer in trying to help everyone hike their best hike and have their best possible Grand Canyon experience. Now you've heard Eric and I speak to the differences in how we eat and drink. It's just another example that all of us are different, and coach Arnie says that's okay. But when it comes to knowing what your body wants and what your body can handle, it all comes down to practice.

Hey, guys. Coach Arnie here with another Grand Canyon tip of the week, And thank you, Brian, for allowing me to share some some wisdom with you guys here. And this tip is gonna make a lot of you very uncomfortable. Why? Because it's about food.

There are a lot of myths around nutrition in the Grand Canyon. You know, twelve years ago, I fell I fell for it just like everybody else. I loaded up with with tons of carbs and candy and what most would consider free food because you're in the canyon. Well, fast forward twelve years, coach Arnie, the exercise physiologist, is very precise, and it reminds me of my r five. I was going over my schedule with the with the guy that was gonna meet me at Phantom Ranch on my way up on my second my second day, my second trip up.

And his partner and him were going over my schedule, and they noticed that everything was scheduled. Everything, including when I was gonna eat. And I looked at him. I said, yep. Everything.

Everything I do is practiced and then practiced again. There are no mistakes. I've learned I've learned that that that this can make or break. Got it? And it reminds me of a little bit about the episode, the adventure that Brian and I went in last year in January right after I'd done this.

And when my gut wasn't feeling good, and Brian goes, why don't you just throw up? I go, there's nothing in there. And there wasn't. There wasn't anything in my gut to throw up, which was fine because I knew exactly what had caused it. And so, again, because of the way I eat, it eliminates any gut issues unless you do something like take too much caffeine.

But regardless, you must practice for your event. Whether you're doing a if you're doing a rim to river or you're doing a rim to rim, the time of day you're going, what's the heat like? Because what you think is normal food for you, if it's hot, may not be normal food anymore. You know, the weather, all these things matter. When you get up, how much sleep you had, all of it affects one of the things I learned is sleep deprivation will really affect your your gut and what you can eat and how you can drink.

All these things are so important when it comes to nutrition, and we're not even talking about hydration right now. We're just talking about what you put in your gut. So that's so important to know all these little facts. And these are the things that I'm when I'm coaching somebody, this is what we go over. We go over every single detail, time of day, you name it.

Lastly, if you're someone who's looking for an edge, let's say, if you're looking at time and and you have goals, which a lot of people still do, learning how to properly eat, whether you're going down, like I said, to Phantom or r two or an r three, can make or break your day. It can make it an amazing day, or it can make it can make it a nightmare. And that's up to you. But, you know, when I'm as I'm putting together my course, I call nutrition the ribbon that I wrap everything around. Because you could have the best plan on the planet.

You could do everything right. You can train. You could be so ready. You could you could just be just dialed in. And if you eat wrong, you're done.

It's over. And you and guess what? You are in charge of that. Because if you didn't practice that part of it, you're making a big mistake, or you're gonna make your day amazing. Alright, guys.

This is coach Arnie with another Grand Canyon tip of the week. I love you. And as usual, if you have any questions, always reach out. I will pick up the phone, and I will get back to you. I love you.

Ah, yeah. That memorable rim to rim to rim coach and I had last year. To hear all the gruesome details of that go all the way back to episode 64 of the podcast. Episode 64. It is a doozy.

That was coach Artie, Arne Fonseca Junior, our exercise physiologist and Canyon coach. His contact information, yes, including his phone number, is in the show notes. You heard him. Call him and he'll usually pick up. I mean, who does that anymore, right?

Hey, folks. A favor to ask of you if you enjoy the show, if you found any value in it, would you please, please leave us a rating and review on Apple Podcasts or Spotify or wherever you're listening? That helps us get out in front of those who, need us, and it helps ensure that we'll keep doing this for many, many, many episodes to come. So please leave us a review. It takes just a minute and we would be so appreciative if you do that.

Alright. That is it for now. My name is Brian Special, encouraging you as always to go hike the canyon. Take that first step. Embrace the journey.

And when you get there, whether it's for time goals or taking your time, just hike your own hike. Savor every step in the magnificent Grand Canyon. We'll see you next time on the Grand Canyon Hiker Dude Show powered by Hiken. Support the brand that makes this show entirely possible at hiken.club. That's hikin.club.