The Modern Hotelier #223: Traditional SEO is OUT: How Hotels Can Get AI-Ready | Fredrik Sjoberg
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David M.: Steve, who do we have on the program today? 
Steve Carran: Yeah, David today we have a guy who's done it all. We have Fredrik Sjoberg. Fredrik has acted on national TV, performed in musicals, studied classical music and philosophy. Ran for a seat in Parliament, been a Fulbright fellow at Harvard. Postdoc at both Columbia and NYU publish multiple papers in academic journals. Been the CEO of a hotel chain, started a hotel technology company, and he's also tinkered with AI as well. Now he's the CEO and founder of Maison. Welcome to the show, Fredrik, how we doing? 
Fredrik Sjoberg: Thank you. Wow, that's a long list. You guys do your homework. Love it. 
Steve Carran: You've done a lot. 
David M.: All right, so we're gonna get started. So we're gonna jump in. We're gonna do a quick lightning round. We're gonna get to know you better, your career, and then we're gonna dive into some industry topics. Sound good?
Fredrik Sjoberg: Love it. Shoot away.
David M.: All right, here we go. What's something that you wish you were better at? 
Fredrik Sjoberg: I would say patience. 
David M.: Okay, you can work on that. What's your most used emoji?
Fredrik Sjoberg: Probably the fist bump, I would think. Yeah. 
David M.: What's a luxury you can't live without? 
Fredrik Sjoberg: You know what? I would've probably said coffee, like high-end coffee, but I've been without water too, you know, worked in a lot of really poor countries, and I can tell you, wake up in the morning if there's no water around, you can't drink a cup of water or you can't wash your face. I don't think there are a lot of luxuries that I really need. So, really the basics. sense. 
David M.: No, that makes. If you had a time machine and you could go to the future or the past, which way are you going and what year would you go to? 
Fredrik Sjoberg: This is a good one. You know, I would go to 2027 and see whether or not the bubble pops, there's so much going on right now. I don't need to go far. I just want to be in 2027. 
David M.: Got it. What's the best piece of advice you've received? 
Fredrik Sjoberg: I remember my first job, a guy that I was working with came in after work lately. It was just two of us there, and he told me at some point in your career, you're gonna get to speak who and what you work for? I don't even remember the name of the guy. It just stuck with me. I'm sure I've gotten a lot of really good other advice too, but top of mind that would be the one, and now I get to do it, so. 
David M.: Got it. This one I think is gonna might be tough for you. I don't know. What's your favorite city and why? 
Fredrik Sjoberg: Oh, New York City, hands down. 
David M.: Oh..
Steve Carran: That was easy. Well, Fredrik, that was great. Now we're gonna dive into your background a little bit. So you grew up in Finland, is that correct? 
Fredrik Sjoberg: I grew up in Finland on the West coast, small university town. 
Steve Carran: Very nice. How did growing up in Finland shape you into who you are today? 
Fredrik Sjoberg: That's a good question. Very different societies on some levels. But I remember the f first day of school, elementary school in the eighties it was a brand new school. Like literally I was like the first cohort in that school. It's gonna peak welfare state and every kid went to that school. There was like no private schools, and these are, you know, the finished school system is supposed to be the best in the world and it was great, but it's also a very equal society. So, I think an appreciation for fairness. But also, efficiency. It's a very efficient, you know, system too as a government. So, I mean, it's a small country, but you know, probably that.
Steve Carran: Very nice. And for somebody who hasn't been to Finland, where would you recommend them going? 
Fredrik Sjoberg: Oh, you gotta go up north. Oh, definitely. I mean, Lapland, above the polar circle. I own a hotel up north with my brother at some point. It's, it's extraordinary, you know, some parts of the north, you know, the sun goes down at the end of the year and you look up on your phone when the sun goes up and it's in like 30 days.
Steve Carran: Wow. Wow. 
Fredrik Sjoberg: Seriously. You look up when the sun goes down, as if it goes up tomorrow, like it just never goes, you know, in those winter months. But it's extraordinary. Oh, popcorn. Popcorn. That's no. Like, it's beautiful. 
David M.: Well, Steve went through some of it when he introduced you, but you've been to quite a different colleges, universities, including Harvard, getting your PhD in political science. What made you focus heavily on education and specifically on political science? 
Fredrik Sjoberg: It's a good, it's a good question. I was really desperate to get away from my little town. And college, college is free in Scandinavia, so I just got kind of pulled into it. And then I wanted to work, you know, internationally, so I ended up studying, you know, economics and political science and, and got to work all over the world and you know, there's just like a pool to get away from far, far away from my cute little hometown, I guess.
Steve Carran: Sure. Well, that's great. So now we're gonna dive into your career, how you became the founder and CEO of Maison. So your first job was at the age of nine years old as a paper boy for your local newspaper. What did you learn from being a paper boy that you still take with you today? 
Fredrik Sjoberg: You gotta make your own money. Well, and now I have kids that age too like they're actually older now and I don't know, there's just something that there's something with grit and hard work that comes with working at a very early age. I mean, handing out papers in the dark, it was cold too in the winter before school to make a few pennies to, to buy the bike that your parents wouldn't buy for you. I mean, it's certainly, I think, sparked an entrepreneurial spirit in me. 
Steve Carran: So, do your kids have paper routes now? 
Fredrik Sjoberg: They don't, but we've been doing a lot of lemonade. There we go. But I get pulled into it too. Like I am like, this is not my job. You guys need to figure it out. And also just in terms of like gross margins and trying to do some math with them, they end up having me buy the ingredients. It doesn't make any sense. So it's a different era, a little bit more helicoptering, I guess. 
Steve Carran: Sure. Low supply costs for them and all profits. Good business model right there. 
David M.: So, as Steve was introing you, I know as me also being an old guy, you probably are thinking about, wow, I never really thought about all the things I've done, all the jobs I've had, but with Maison, and this is your first hotel tech company. How does all the history you have, all the jobs you have, how does that help you as the founder and being CEO of a company? 
Fredrik Sjoberg: Well, so it's actually my second hotel tech company, but, but I've been doing so many different things, kind of building up to this moment. But the way, and these are tough questions, like how to figure out how did we get here? And I think a lot of people in this industry, I mean, not struggle, but we have so much experience and this is an industry for misfits. I'm like the perfect example. No one would've thought that I would end up in hospitality, but it was. It was where I kind of shape my first job and create a job for myself.
But I have that like data path that's been pretty strong. I was always good at math data was always one part of it. And then the other part was like, you know, travel and hospitality and I put those two together. You know, in the AI era, everything's data driven hospitality is, probably gonna be one of the few things we're gonna do as humanity going forward. So I think it's a good mix, but, you know, not by design, it just so happened. 
Steve Carran: Yeah. That's great. And I feel like that's how most of us ended up in hospitality. But for those that might not be familiar with Maison, can you share a little bit more maybe about the company and how, how you decided to start it?
Fredrik Sjoberg: Yeah, thank you. You know, it's a good question. I was initially gonna set this one out, but the pull of the AI era really kind of really was felt pretty deep. I think it's just such a big part of culture now. So actually my co-founder, an AI engineer, he was the one who reached out to me and we started, we started just chatting about some of the opportunities. So we kinda literally started building. One weekend we're like, oh my gosh, like the capabilities just keep on improving. This was around like 4.0 was just being launched like the open AI model and the reasoning capabilities was just kind of were just scratching the surface, but it just became this aha for me, like I just gotta build because this is gonna change everything.
So then I reach back to some of the other people that I worked with in the past, and one of them is from my hometown. I went to engineering school in my hometown and then, um, you know, we been, you know, you know, in the Bay Area for the last 10 years. And, and it just kind of grew organically into this thing where let's just get this in front of, you know, hotels and in corporate feedback. And now we're like, I mean, a little over a year into this thing and it's kind of all the rage. It's a little bit insane actually, the speed at which this thing is moving. 
Steve Carran: I bet. I bet. So what does Maison do? 
Fredrik Sjoberg: We are providing an AI agent for hotels that they can embed on their websites, and we're providing that for free. We think it's a great service to any operator out there that's thinking about what to do in terms of their own. A website in terms of the content, in terms of discoverability, all these big themes and topics. And so we thought we would build a very simple tool that hotels would love and, and that's what we did in a few months, and now it's all the rage.
David M.: So you have some exciting news coming out of ILC Miami. Let everyone know what what's happened. 
Fredrik Sjoberg: Yeah, no, it's very exciting. We just won. The best new tech innovation of the year by independent LodgIQ Congress. A huge honor, really. I mean, I know the owners from the previous years went on to do great things, it's a really cool crowd. A lot of really nice operators. And so very happy about that for sure.
David M.: Congratulations.
Steve Carran: Congrats.
Fredrik Sjoberg: Appreciate it. 
Steve Carran: So now we're gonna dive into thought leadership a little bit kind of with AI and hospitality, they go hand in hand. So I'm excited to hear some of your thoughts on this. One thing that we've seen is the organic search is declining and guests are moving to more of a conversational planning talking to their friends, families about where they wanna go and where they've experienced. How do you think hotels should rethink their digital strategy as kind of these searches are shifting? 
Fredrik Sjoberg: I think that's the question for the era, really. Like, what's happening when the end user is not, you know, landing in a travel app or they're not landing on a website. They're not landing in your booking engine, they're literally just spending time on their chat personal agent, like, I don't think we appreciate it enough as of kinda how fast things are moving, but, but that platform shift doesn't happen that often and. We're kind of early days, but I think it changed everything for an operator. Like if you're not, if you've been obsessing about your direct channels for the last 20 years as I did too.
I mean, I started my first hotel in 97. If you've been obsessing about your direct channel and now you're seeing a collapse in terms of organic, you need to get your act together. And it's not SEO, the old playbook is out. So that's what we're kind of trying to do. Can I help hotels figure this thing out?
It starts with knowledge. You're gonna have to have knowledge that machines can access and, and your audience is agents, not humans. And that's, that's, that's like borderline unsettling for an operator. What does that even mean? So, so there's a lot to think about that, and we're figuring it out as the industry's figuring it out. But so is Sam Altman like, no one's got this figured out, which is an extraordinary thing to, to, to period to live through. I absolutely love it. 
David M.: That's a great segue. So as AI now is, is starting to dominate, what do you think is gonna happen to the traditional hotel’s website and the way people traditionally looked at booking travel?
Fredrik Sjoberg: I think you're gonna be booking in an ai, no doubt. That's it. You're gonna be booking in what we haven't even decided yet what we're gonna call these things. Right. AI, are they a personal agent, are their personal assistant, but I'm talking about ChatGPT. There's gonna be a handful of these that are gonna be very close to the individual user. Apple's gonna have one too, and that's where you're gonna spend most of your life. And that personal agent is gonna have to speak to business agents and other personal agents, and we're trying to figure out how that protocol is gonna work, but it's. Platform shift of unprecedented proportion, and we're all living through it without really knowing, you know, how it's gonna work.
But the where the puck is going is pretty clear. And that's, that's exciting. So we're kind of building, you know, like a business agent layer because we think the, the, you know, the open ais of the world, they're gonna own the personal agent layer. 
Steve Carran: Well said. And I completely agree. And we've already seen OTAs starting to integrate to these agent ecosystems. How can hotels stay more visible and competitive with larger brands, you know, with these OTAs integrate? 
Fredrik Sjoberg: I think this is a really fundamental, big question, but we're trying certainly to give tools to hotels to start with their knowledge like you need to be. You need to be discoverable, and for that you need to move away from SEO and provide more details. A lot of hotels and their digital presence, you know, there are a lot of blanks to fill in because they haven't thought about their digital window to the world as a, as a kind of a primary way where people look for detailed travel, travel planning related, you know, issues now. If the competitors that have really good information about themselves on all the products, including detailed experience packages or menu items, all that detail or kind of curated local excursions and recommendations, that kind of thing that people are looking for.
If your competitors have that, they're gonna be the ones showing up. OpenAI loves information and they love information that operators have sanctioned. I own this business. This is what I do. These are the services; these are the reviews. If you can feed that to open ai, it's gonna be very powerful. But first you've gotta identify what are those gaps?
What are those things? So we have a period of time where who tells just need to get their act together. So the chat agent that we've developed is, is one way to do that. It's a, it's a way to find out what guests are actually talking about, not just guessing what. Based on what you didn't done in the past, so we're trying to build that infrastructure, but those tools too for the hotels to eventually be more discoverable and also actually bookable directly into TPT.
David M.: Yeah, you made a great point because it's very funny for, you know, being the older guy, travel agencies had the first 800 numbers. Then hotels had to get 800 numbers, and then travel agencies had websites, and then the hotels had to get websites and ad adapt. So now with AI, it's like a third wave of trying to figure out how to make things work.
So without having the right data, do you think. Some of these hotels as far as their own individual presence, especially independent hotels, do you think that they might disappear to an extent of, for their own identity? And how did, how should they basically get agent ready? 
Fredrik Sjoberg: I think you need to structure your knowledge and think a lot about how to stand out and there's no shortcut for an operator. You need to think about your service concept. What is it that you are offering to people and how do you provide the specifics of what you're offering in a form that would people would have people pick you? You know, at some point there might be ads in chatGPT2, but for now we think that the end user experience inactivity is gonna be amazing. But it's only amazing for the operators that have their information structured in the right way. But I think it's also gonna unleash a whole wave of operators that are seeing opportunities to do things that perhaps in the past there was no way to reach a global audience. And now you could reach the whole world, but you gotta have a good business, you gotta have a good service.
The distribution layer is, I think, is gonna be reinvented. And anyone with a vision and ambition can be globally discoverable, and hopefully at a lower rate too, in terms of distribution costs. But I mean, those are a lot of big unknowns, but I think it's gonna be hugely empowering for the industry.
Steve Carran: I agree. And you know how do you think Maison is kind of helping bridge those gaps and, you know, you kind of see that neutral layer of reshaping the relationship. How is Maison shaping that relationship between hotels, agents, and intermediaries? 
Fredrik Sjoberg: Well, we just got started and the chat agent that we provide hotels forever free is a very good starting point because the end user, the guests get to reveal what they're curious about. So the questions that people are asking reveal something very deep to operators, oh, people are now asking about X, Y, Z. Oh, this information was hidden somewhere in an operating manual before.
And you know, detailed questions, allergens. Why aren't allergens, you know, displayed prominently or discoverable on a hotel's website or accessibility? Two things that, I mean, I personally am struggling with, you know, as an in, as a consumer and, and so I think now that we show this to operators, they absolutely love seeing what guests are talking about and not like keywords, they actually get the conversations, the transcripts. So we're sharing all that with hotels and we're providing this thing actually forever free. And we think every hotel is gonna have one of these things on their website. There's also gonna be agents that you can plug into your phone systems to your email clients.
So this could kind of extend to, to, to manage a lot of different channels and. You know, all the way into the chatGPTs of the world. 
Steve Carran: That's great. And I have two follow up questions here. For those hotels that might be nervous or maybe just don't know where to start with AI, do you have any advice for them?
Fredrik Sjoberg: I don't think there are that many of those, Steve, and it's, it's fascinating because that was not the case like 25 years ago, like 20, 25 years ago, this industry was sleeping and the whole internet era. Came upon us and we were, we, we kind of, we lost so much ground. I don't think that's the case now, and certainly not our experience at Maison.
I mean, we show this to any operator in the world and they're like, yeah, let's just do it. Let's go live. People, people absolutely want it immediately. Like it takes little, like a minute to set up. And I think there's an appreciation for some of the mistakes we did in the past, but there's also just an openness to tinker, to try things out to measure, does this, you know, add any value? And I'm surprised, I thought too, like hotels are so hard to sell into. There's so many dis decision makers and the incentives are so misaligned between the managers and owners and, and, and, you know, everyone involved. No, no, I don't. That's not my experience.
Now, this last year, eh, quite the country. Everyone is looking for these types of tools that allow them to, to get ahead. And I think that's great for the industry because it creates this pull for different type of tools. The tools need to be simple and you know, simplicity is one of the guiding principles of what we've built at Maison. It literally is like self-service. Any hotel can just kind of set it up. 
Steve Carran: Coming from hotel sales, tech sales, man, that product sounds like a great one to sell. Follow up question, last one from me, Fredrick, for those people you just have this kind of eclectic background, you have done so much in your life and now you've founded your second hotel tech company. What advice do you have for maybe the younger generation out there or somebody who's looking to get to be a founder or to start their own company? 
Fredrik Sjoberg: Yeah, it's a good question and I get that from my students too because, so at the hotel school, where I teach at NYU, a lot of them are really interested in, in this industry.
Obviously, they're at the hotel school, but they're also thinking about what are the jobs that are gonna be out there? And they're asking themselves questions about starting their own business. So I encourage them to really think through the basics of entrepreneurship and, and product building. You know, what are the pain points? Do you know the pain points? Start by working in a hotel. You know, try to understand what problems there are and don't solve all of them at once. Solve a very simple problem, get it in front of users. The playbook is known, you know, there are a lot of distractions and, and of course getting money for, for it from either investors or from customers.
You know, it's hard, but I think it's a great time to be building. For sure, and that's not only like tech companies. I think it's a great building to set up smaller hospitality operations. You don't need a big box to run a hotel. I think you're gonna be able to run a small, cool travel hospitality company with fewer tech components.
You're gonna have more direct distribution, you know, higher profit margins. I think we're gonna see like a whole wave of, of, of innovation here. So it's not only tech, it's really the kind of thing that hospitality does, does best. And I'm very encouraged by that and the students seem to be too.
To anyone in the audience, young or old. I mean, it's a great time to be tinkering and trying because the demand is gonna be there. People are gonna have more time. People are gonna want to experience things anything that makes them feel human, something people are gonna be able want to pay for in this new era. And you just wanna be there with something that people are paying for and you know, that's the playbook. 
Steve Carran: I love that. Well said. So Fredrick, we've been asking you questions this whole time. This is where we turn the tables and let you ask David and I a question. 
Fredrik Sjoberg: Okay. That's interesting. David, you miss being a GM? 
David M.: I do not miss being a GM, but I will say I miss it's a tough, it's a tough way to explain it. I miss the action, meaning I miss the staff. I miss being on property, I missed that. But you know, when I left, I was living on property and I was working six days a week and these long hours, it just sucked the life out of me. So sometimes like, I think, I would not be opposed to being a GM of like a Caribbean like resort hotel, but having managed hotels in New York City. I can't say that I missed what it did to me mentally and probably physically, but that's a good question. 
Fredrik Sjoberg: So it's tough.
David M.: Yeah, it's a tough one. I don't know. Steve, you're exposed to so many people in the tech ecosystem. You think it's gonna be easier to operate a hotel or are they gonna be fewer technologies they have to rely on? Or are things gonna get just more complicated? 
Steve Carran: Great question. Great question. I think we're gonna see it being easier, just talking from hotels, like one thing that's such a problem for them is the siloed technology companies that maybe don't have open APIs, they're difficult to integrate, things like that. So I think it's becoming a requirement for hotels when they choose to work with a tech company that those companies are easy to integrate with.
So things do talk to more and more, like data is so key, especially with AI. And if you can't transfer that data. It's gonna be harder to, you know, know your guests and understand the best way to run a hotel. So, with data being so key, I think we're gonna see a lot more open platforms that are easier to connect, we've all, everybody's been waiting for this all-in-one PMS system that has everything that can handle larger properties. Will we see that soon? I'm not sure, but we've been waiting for that for a long time. We just need one company or one person to put it all together.
Fredrik Sjoberg: I'm thinking a lot about that too. If you think about the market map of the tech stack. What it's gonna look like, but also thinking about the org chart of a hotel, how that's gonna change in the future, who are the roles that are gonna be requiring a human in the loop and who are the roles that are gonna be fully agentic. So here's another question. What's gonna be the big theme for next year? Do I get a third question? 
Steve Carran: Yeah, absolutely. 
Fredrik Sjoberg: What was it? Well, so what's gonna be a big theme for 2026? I mean, it's early, but it's gonna budget season, so people are gonna mentally starting to get into that, what's gonna happen next year? 
Steve Carran: So I have an idea, and this is kind of, maybe a little not, I don't, we're not gonna say out there, but I think there's gonna be, maybe not next year, but I think soon there's gonna be this big shift around mental wellness. Wellness and luxury is such a huge trend, you know, right now.
And, you know, we talk about hospitality in Asia and how, you know, wellness is just a part of that culture and now it's coming more to the US on the luxury side and other hotels. I think people mentally are just getting, not overwhelmed, but just a little stressed out a little bit more. So I think hotels at some point are gonna just focus a little bit more on the mental side of wellness.
David M.: I'm just hoping that there's almost a wakeup call in the industry to embrace technology versus being scared of it. And so like I've said to people, if you're worried about technology replacing humans, then those humans, especially if we're talking about hospitality and service, they better be doing a great job.
So if you're afraid of using AI to pick up a phone call or AI to interact on the website, then you better have a great website. You better have that the front desk people better be amazing because there's a little bit of an assumption that. The human element is so great in hospitality and I don't find that to be true as I travel.
So I'm hoping that the industry as a whole just kind of wakes up, start embracing these technologies to realize that there are great things like what you're doing that help the staff and help the guest, and don't take away from the guest experience. Everyone's so afraid of taking away, they're not thinking about what they're actually delivering. So that'd be my two sense. 
Fredrik Sjoberg: Yeah, it's such a big, there's a lot of anxiety too, right? What replacement or is the industry gonna be there? And I see that with my students too. And it will be disruptive, no doubt. But the industry's gonna be growing. I'm a hundred percent sure of it.
And whoever really leans into the core of hospitality, I think people are gonna pay a premium for the human stuff. But you can't run a business profitably without relying on these technologies. But I'm hopeful when I talk to people, I mean, I know there are a lot of different incentives and interest in the industry, but there is an openness to try out things.
And I was just at destination AI in DC, the other week too. And the big groups. They're all talking, you know, some of us have a harder time to move fast, I get that. But everyone's talking, everyone's experimenting, and that's a good thing. And of course, of course that's, that's how the industry survives and reinvents itself, so great. 
Steve Carran: Well done. Those are some good questions. Well done. So our producer, Jon, has been sitting in this whole time. We're gonna kick it over to him for one final question before we get you outta here. 
Jon Bumhoffer: Yeah, great conversation. I've loved everything. I've learned a lot from this. One thing you said that I think is true, not just in hospitality and hotels, but that traditional CSEO is kind of dead, right?
You're kind of different people or companies are having to figure out the new landscape with AI agents. You mentioned a lot about adding detailed information like on the website, whether it's allergens, accessibility, any of those questions that people are asking. What are you seeing in your work as that relates to maybe outside of the hotel's owned website, whether or other platforms user generated, like user generated content on stuff like YouTube and TikTok, stuff like that. What are you seeing, how does that play into the new SEO strategy with AI and what do you think hotels need to be thinking about there?
Fredrik Sjoberg: Yeah. No, that's good. So the short form video is definitely here to stay. My big question is how is that gonna be, how is that gonna be incorporated to the personal agents? Right now we're starting to see some, like, obviously product visuals in GPT, you know, when are we gonna see short form videos directly in those, and how is that gonna be competing with TikTok?
And are you gonna be really booking through TikTok? I think it really does come down to, for an operator to do the basics. Like you just need to have a really good, you know, service delivery apparatus and you can't fake this thing. You know, like you really need to build that reputation. And of course, proactively work with partners, influencers, all of those things and good content is gonna find a way into the agents.
The job the foundational model providers is to score the world in terms of content and provide that in a user-friendly format to their users. They wanna keep you in their chats. So all of that is gonna be sucked into chatGPT. And if the information is not correct, you know, you are gonna be the one there, the operator is gonna be the one there, you know.
Dealing with the complaints. Oh, I thought the pool or the spire was accessible. You know, either it is or it's not. You know, these are so the details matter, but there's a whole ecosystem of content around it that's gonna be now incorporated somehow in these personal agents, and we haven't seen it yet.
Jon Bumhoffer: So do you think like hotels should prioritize spending time curating content on like their own YouTube channel 'cause for instance, you, you know, you use Gemini, you use Google, and then Gemini will auto-populate information and then feed you a video where it got the information and different, different AI.
Agents will work in different ways as far as like not, I find myself on ChatGPT get less like links to a YouTube video, for instance. But when you're using Gemini, and maybe that's the relationship between Google and YouTube, right, as a parent company, but what do you see there? Like, do you see anything there?
Fredrik Sjoberg: Yeah, I think OpenAI has a lot of things to figure out. Obviously, Google is the sleeping giant here, but now the Gemini update is trending. And as you say, the short form video is like, it's right there. I think as an operator in this era, it's kind of all of the above.
And you've gotta have partners that are leaning in, trying things out. Anyone that claims to know, you know exactly what's going on here. They're, they're overselling what they're doing. So you just gotta do all of the above. And that goes for the foundational model providers too. Even the engineers there don't know exactly how all of these things work.
So back to David's point, you can decide to kind of second guess this thing and, and put the brakes on, or you can lean in and there's a whole ecosystem of vendors and service providers that are trying to reinvent themselves too. So work with them, engage them, try them out. I wouldn't sign long-term contracts with anyone because you don't know.
Right. But you can't just opt out from say like a form factor that's not in chatGPT quite yet, let's say the video, you know, form because it's such an important, and there are great people working in that short video format category, it's kind of all of all of the above.
And again, I really wanna be in 2027. I really wanna see because it's not gonna be like 2050, like, but 2050, like I don't even know what the species is gonna be at that point, but already two years. I think we're gonna, a lot of the dust is gonna settle and, and I'm gonna be able to respond to that question even more precisely, Jon.
David M.: Well that does it for another episode of The Modern Hotelier. This is where you get the plug away. How can people find out more about Maison and how can they get in touch with you? 
Fredrik Sjoberg: Yeah, I am quite active on LinkedIn, so please feel free to reach out and maison.cx – SIGN UP. I have an amazing commercial team that's happy to walk you through, working with independents and groups all over the world and happy to have you as a customer and happy to deliver benefits to you and it all can go in as fast in a few minutes, so, happy to help the industry for sure. 
David M.: That's good. Well, that does it for another episode of The Modern Hotelier, the most engaged podcast in hospitality. Whether you're watching or listening, we appreciate you and we enjoyed our time with you. This was a great episode. Thank you so much. 
Fredrik Sjoberg: Thank you guys. Love what you do.
David M.: Thank you.
Steve Carran: Thank you, Fred.