GMSB002
[00:00:00] Antony Whitaker: Welcome to the Grow My Salon Business podcast, where we focus on the business side of hairdressing. I'm your host, Antony Whitaker, and I'll be talking to thought leaders in the hairdressing industry, discussing insightful, provocative, and inspiring ideas that matter. So, get ready to learn, get ready to be challenged, get ready to be inspired, and most importantly, get ready to grow your salon business.
[00:00:31] Antony Whitaker: My guest today are Robert and Mary Cromeans from the Robert Cromeans salons and creative and business director at John Paul Mitchell systems. Now I know I said I was going to try to keep these podcasts to around the 30-minute mark, but as there are two people, it's closer to an hour. So, sit back and buckle up and get ready for some great information.
[00:00:52] Antony Whitaker: In today's podcast, Robert and Mary give their thoughts on four key areas. First, selling time and charging for salon services by time taken, instead of the more traditional fixed service prices. Secondly, the trend towards removing the front desk from salons to make them more mobile and arguably a more efficient client experience.
[00:01:13] Antony Whitaker: Thirdly, when it comes to in salon take home products. The importance and benefits of staging product placement as part of the client in salon experience and fourth, how numbers influence behaviors and different ways of paying your team. So welcome to my guest today, Robert and Mary Cromeans. 
[00:01:35] Robert Cromeans: There's a first right there.
[00:01:36] Robert Cromeans: That's the first time we've ever been introduced together. It's kind of exciting podcast. I know it's great. It's a broadcast. 
[00:01:44] Antony Whitaker: It's really good to have the 2 of you here together. It's, uh, it's, it's, you know, it's important on lots of different levels. So, listen, I like to start off by getting you guys to explain just 30 seconds.
[00:01:54] Antony Whitaker: 1 minute intro who you are, what your background is, what you're known for. 
[00:01:57] Mary Cromeans: Should I start first? 
[00:01:58] Robert Cromeans: Yes, please. 
[00:01:59] Mary Cromeans: Well, my name is Mary Cromeans now, um, I'm Robert's wife, but I've been a part of Paul Mitchell for about 22 years. I work at a Robert Cromeans salon in San Diego. I moved there when I was 20. So as soon as I discovered Paul Mitchell as a company and I was introduced to Robert Cromeans as one of the lead educators and all of that, I kind of, um, fell in love with all the concepts and the business of it and, 
[00:02:26] Antony Whitaker: and Robert Cromeans 
[00:02:26] Mary Cromeans: and Robert Cromeans
[00:02:28] Mary Cromeans: so, I moved from upstate New York to San Diego to work for him. And I've been there ever since I worked for him for 10 years before we started dating in there. Rest is history in that department, but I'm an international educator for Paul Mitchell. I tend to feature color when I'm educating and I just love being a part of the salon, being around hairdressers and being in the beauty industry altogether.
[00:02:47] Antony Whitaker: Cool. Perfect. Mr. Cromeans 
[00:02:50] Robert Cromeans: And what do I do exactly? Well, um, I think that for me it's most important is the lifestyle I've been able to create. I used to deliver pizza, Antony. Uh, I was not destined for this industry, not remarkably artistic but remarkable with people. So, I've kind of found a way to make 1 of my skills, which is loving on people pay off.
[00:03:15] Robert Cromeans: So, uh, you know, for me, traveling the world, inspiring hairdressers is kind of the job that I've chosen. And it can happen in any language, any type of business. I'm a little misdirected, because whereas there's a lot of artists in the world, but not so many business guys, I kind of disguise myself as a hairdresser to talk business.
[00:03:36] Robert Cromeans: So, for me, when I look at what I'm most proud of in my career, it's probably the 110 schools in the company that reflect business ideas that we have put into play in our salon, for example, color bar, probably nobody listening to this has never heard that term color bar. We own the rights to that name.
[00:03:53] Robert Cromeans: It's actually our name. We brought it to the industry 25 years ago. It's reflected in every school, things like take home. It's a philosophy. So we kind of look at the business. We talk about wash houses, lather lounges. Uh, we talk about sex in the sinking. That's a TV show, aren't they? We're talking about an experience that's memorable.
[00:04:10] Robert Cromeans: We deliver a lot of that through tea tree, so it tingles and makes things happen. So, to me, when you look at what a client receives, what I tend to focus on is what's, what's the experience and then looking at hairdressers as a whole, because we employ some, what's the ideal career path for them. For some people, it's being a working mother.
[00:04:27] Robert Cromeans: For some people, it's cooking dinner every night for their husband. Uh, I don't get to choose what lifestyle you want to live in in this beauty industry, but what I can help you do, whatever you imagine or dream, I can help you systematically to obtain that.
[00:04:41] Antony Whitaker: Okay. So, uh, your salons, I know you've got a group of salons.
[00:04:46] Antony Whitaker: Um, they're predominantly in San Diego. 
[00:04:50] Robert Cromeans: We got 2 in San Diego, uh, Vegas, 1, 2 in Oklahoma, uh, 1 Tulsa, 1 Oklahoma City. Yep. And not all the same brand, as you kind of know, quite clearly. I've been playing with concepts the minute I opened the salon. Think about what I invented, the color bar. The point is, I need a concept.
[00:05:09] Robert Cromeans: I need a story. So, when I look at the next concept is what we're working on, uh, when we had a recession in 2009, I went for an expensive concept because I needed traffic. I needed kids to get experience so we could have a thing called walk in. Where'd I learn that Regis. They're 1 differential at Regis, which is a major organization here in the States and the world.
[00:05:30] Robert Cromeans: They don't have appointments, whereas everybody else in the world is very stuck on that appointment making system. And I'm just saying that we open walk in. Now, you could make a reservation, but the sign said, walk in because I'd seen a million salons that had a sign outside said, walk in is welcome. So, as we move forward.
[00:05:46] Robert Cromeans: California law is changing. We live in a place where the compliance of the government say no longer can we pay commission to people. So, as a result, we are actually having to think about time time management, which again leads me back to lifestyle. So it's about hitting the highest service volumes in the shortest period of time would reflect
[00:06:07] Robert Cromeans: on your, your, your hourly pay, so your compensation. So, uh, I don't know if you've ever had an attorney, but my attorney was 250 an hour. I trusted that. I think that this hourly mechanism could be something that's reflective. It shouldn't be based on length. It should be based on not gender, but it should be based on how long did it take if you go from diet jet.
[00:06:28] Robert Cromeans: Black hair that was store bought and you want to be blonde, there's going to be a process. There's going to be a timeline on that. And why not? Instead of trying to quote her something out your brain, just say, well, it's 200 bucks an hour. 
[00:06:40] Antony Whitaker: Okay. So, is that what you do as a colorist? Mary in the salon, you charge.
[00:06:44] Antony Whitaker: For time as opposed to charging for the service. 
[00:06:46] Mary Cromeans: I do both. So, when I have my more typical type of services, a color touch up, a base touch up, a typical highlight, I have a set price that I've grown to. But like Robert just mentioned, if I'm doing a color correction, if I'm doing unicorn colors, anything that is sort of above and beyond that, I may need to start doing three, four or five plus steps.
[00:07:06] Mary Cromeans: It's going to take more than two hours. I quote by time. Oftentimes I don't always know, especially because more and more people are coloring their hair. So, you never know what it's going to turn out as. It's not like I have this perfect virgin hair in my chair and I can say, okay, I can make you platinum in an hour and a half.
[00:07:21] Mary Cromeans: Yeah. Yeah. I just, I find that it gets confusing for guests if I tell them the ala carte way of like, well, I have to do a toner after this and that's going to be this much money. And then they'll say, well, I don't want the toner. Well, it's really not an option because I, when I'm able to charge by the hour, I, it allows me the freedom to do whatever it takes to get them there without having to sort of nickel and dime them in that manner.
[00:07:43] Mary Cromeans: And then I can tell him up front, you know, it's, it's going to be 150 dollars an hour is what I do. And, um, I can say it can take up to eight hours. Is that okay for you? That's the maximum. It's going to be. If we finish sooner, that's great. But it's allowed me a little bit more freedom. And then the guest doesn't have to worry about being confused or being too shy to ask.
[00:08:04] Mary Cromeans: Like, well, what does that mean? I don't know what a toner is, or I don't know what a base smudge is, or I just want the end result. 
[00:08:10] Antony Whitaker: Yeah. So, you tell them it's 150 an hour could take up to eight hours. It's a simple bit of math. Exactly. Eight times 50, this is what it might cost you. Worst case scenario 
[00:08:18] Mary Cromeans: that's the most it could be.
[00:08:19] Antony Whitaker: Yeah. And within that, it includes everything. Yes. So if you need more product, you, you get more product. 
[00:08:24] Mary Cromeans: Absolutely. 
[00:08:24] Antony Whitaker: If you need treatments on it, it gets a treatment. Absolutely. You, everything's in there to, is a whole lot. Mm-Hmm... Okay. Yes. Yeah, I, I mean I have a very good friend of mine in London who works that way and she does exactly the same thing.
[00:08:34] Antony Whitaker: And I, I think definitely for color services, it's the way to go that, you know, we're, we're selling time. And, uh, you know, that's, that's the best approach to take 
[00:08:43] Mary Cromeans: and it's a really easy way to get closure on your consultation because especially now with the internet and people showing you the picture or they say, you know, they'll show you the YouTube video that's edited down to five minutes and they're like, look, her hair is like this.
[00:08:57] Mary Cromeans: You're like, yeah, but that was like a 13-hour process and they use final cut pro to edit it. Like the reality is, so if you're okay with that, we can do it, but if you're not okay with it and your budget is, you know, you can afford $300. I'm going to give you what we can for two hours. 
[00:09:13] Antony Whitaker: Yeah. Okay. And, um, you said you're 150 an hour.
[00:09:17] Antony Whitaker: When do you arrive at that figure? What criteria is there? 
[00:09:20] Mary Cromeans: So that's a great question. So, the first time I did it, I truly did it by accident. I just was like, I wanted to give her a number that was high enough that I wouldn't be regretful afterwards that I was like, spent six and a half hours on this and I only can charge her now $300 cause I didn't tell her up front.
[00:09:38] Mary Cromeans: So, I knew that this, this woman came in, she had dark hair. We were coloring it dark for her in the salon, but she just decided I want to be blonde. Yeah. I don't care how long it takes.
[00:09:46] Antony Whitaker: And does this by the hour, is that just working time application time or does it include processing time? 
[00:09:52] Mary Cromeans: Everything. 
[00:09:52] Antony Whitaker: So, you build everything in.
[00:09:53] Mary Cromeans: Absolutely. 
[00:09:54] Antony Whitaker: It's not the time that they're having you working on them. 
[00:09:56] Mary Cromeans: No. 
[00:09:57] Antony Whitaker: Processing is factored into it as well. 
[00:09:58] Mary Cromeans: Absolutely. Yes. So the process, cause that's the part too. Sometimes, you know, you don't just process for those 30 minutes and sometimes I need to reapply because it's not moving or it dried out or whatever.
[00:10:09] Mary Cromeans: So, no, the processing time you're sitting when I'm shampooing you, I'm charging you for that. When you're under the dryer with your treatment. Yeah. The whole time from the second we start until you are out the door.
[00:10:19] Antony Whitaker: And, uh, other people in the salon that they have the same alley, right? Or is it staggered depending on like a level system?
[00:10:26] Mary Cromeans: It's, um, we have five elements in our salons, so we use those elements. Basically, we start our haircut price starts at $50 goes up to $200 plus, and there's everything in between. So just recently I have, um, set up a menu according to those elements that also includes an hourly rate. Yeah, so that even if you're an element 1, which is a little bit more new talent type of stylist, you can charge $50 an hour.
[00:10:50] Mary Cromeans: Okay. But this might go too far. But in California again, as Robert mentioned, we can't do commission. You have to do, um, do hourly of some sort, but obviously you're not going to pay the base rate of hourly. Yeah. So, if somebody's. Base rate is $25 an hour. We have to calculate all of that. So, there's a little bit of working backwards to figure out everyone's rate.
[00:11:10] Mary Cromeans: I started mine kind of by accident just because I didn't want to wish I charged her more and felt like, oh, I worked so hard and got nothing out of it. But then I went back and recalculated. I also do in her processing time, my ala carte calculation and make sure it equals up. 
[00:11:25] Antony Whitaker: Yeah. Okay. 
[00:11:26] Mary Cromeans: One. I don't want to overcharge the guest if I'm not going to, you know, gouge somebody, but at the same time, I don't want to undercharge for my, my work and my worth and the end result.
[00:11:34] Antony Whitaker: Yeah. Okay. Do you, do you double book? Yes. So, you do. So even though my color might be processing. And I'm paying you an hourly fee while my colors processing, you'll go off and do another client at the same time. And I'll be paying an hourly rate too. 
[00:11:47] Mary Cromeans: Yes, it can. It depends. Now, if I know ahead of time, if someone comes in and they do just a consultation, I can book straight through because I know I'm getting paid straight through and I'm happy to do so.
[00:11:57] Mary Cromeans: So, I can give them a hundred percent of my attention. There is the occasion where somebody comes in and they make their reservation for highlights and you know, you have somebody again in 45 minutes and they really aren't getting highlights, you know? So. If I can make it happen, I will continue with my double booking.
[00:12:13] Mary Cromeans: If I can't make it happen, I'll let them know and say, this is a really big process. Let's book on it. Let's reschedule you to another day where I can give you a hundred percent of my time. It's going to be this much. This is going to be the time commitment and I'll move forward. Cause it's not fair to the next guest to where I'm stressed out.
[00:12:28] Mary Cromeans: Maybe about is this color coming up? Right. I have to watch this cause it's corrective or it's unicorn color. It depends. Okay. Best case scenario at that hourly rate for a six- or eight-hour job would be not to have anyone in between. So, you could really focus in, you know, be timely and get it done a little quicker would be the better way to do it.
[00:12:45] Antony Whitaker: Yeah. Yeah. Okay. All right. Um, Robert, you said that you have different concepts. Just explain the concepts to me. What are the, how many different concepts have you got running at the moment 
[00:12:55] Robert Cromeans: in my head right now? I see this thing. It's about time. And you look at the menu and just like Mary pointed out through these 5 elements, you pick what's right for you.
[00:13:04] Robert Cromeans: What the clients never had is the comfort of transparency. How many people are so scared to walk into a high-end contemporary salon for fear of price? Because it's not really clear what's on the board? Mm-Hmm? cause I live in California. I can't mention gender. Okay. cause I live in California. I've got to now think about time.
[00:13:24] Robert Cromeans: Mm-Hmm... So, when we used to work in the old days, and I'm not sure, I know you're global here, but people in America would always say, I'm gonna make 50%. Well, 50% of what? That's what my mom asked. I didn't know the answer. But what I didn't know is 50% of everything I brought in, but how many hours that took me
[00:13:40] Robert Cromeans: was up to me, I could work 73 hours, 80 hours back in the day. We used to work assistants. I should be absolutely thrown in jail for the abuse I've given rising star talent in our company. So, I think it's very important that we understand that this equation, which drove me crazy at 1st is an owner in some way of setting me free. Because if we thought of ourselves as professionals and increments of time, it would change everything that we know that typical hairdressers don't love numbers.
[00:14:07] Robert Cromeans: They book on time increments. They process color and time increments. I mean, it's really, 
[00:14:11] Antony Whitaker: there's lots of numbers. 
[00:14:12] Robert Cromeans: There really is. And you know, you, I got to watch you today and where we tend to think as an industry, we're not number savvy. The whole world's not number savvy, so it's not just something we have is because we're hairdressers and just people don't get numbers like being colorblind.
[00:14:27] Robert Cromeans: They're number blind and yet they can read a book and that's awesome. But so, numbers are critical for me. So, for me, looking at a time orientated base, a menu board, if you will. Now you look at a guy like me, who's obviously on the $200 an hour menu board, but I cut hair quicker than most folks. Yeah. So even coming to me at 200 an hour on your hair, when I'm seeing you every four weeks, we could be having a great relationship.
[00:14:52] Robert Cromeans: That's only costing you a hundred. Yeah. Uh, some of my favorite things I watch on Instagram are, are some of the kids that are not just doing great colorful rainbow hair. They're documenting what it charges when it comes to something like extensions that should be done by the hour, even blow dries it should be done by the hour.
[00:15:09] Robert Cromeans: So, it's kind of changing it. Mary brought up this client who wants to go from dyed black hair to blonde. What was it called? The path of enlightenment. So, the path of enlightenment is a journey. It doesn't just happen. We're not Harry Potter. Tap, tap, tap. You're blonde. It doesn't work that way. It's not my special pony.
[00:15:28] Robert Cromeans: Okay. So, the reality of the time and just so the people I respect the most on the internet are the ones that don't just show you the great capture, but break it down into that thing because we put so much time into it and we're often not compensated in a fair way. 
[00:15:43] Antony Whitaker: How do you communicate numbers and explain numbers and, you know, embrace numbers with your team?
[00:15:49] Antony Whitaker: But how do you get them to, you know, to work with and understand and use numbers? 
[00:15:55] Robert Cromeans: Actually, we're just working right now with a new concept and it started when I first started working for a young lady in Memphis, Tennessee. Every paycheck I got, I have a smiley face on it when I did better than I did the week before.
[00:16:06] Robert Cromeans: And for some reason, when I opened up the check, even though it was a nice check, it didn't have a smiley face. I just didn't think I'd perform. We just found a payroll company said we can put smiley faces on your checks if you want it. 
[00:16:16] Mary Cromeans: I know. I can't wait. So, it's going to be fun to me. 
[00:16:21] Robert Cromeans: We both know that numbers are the things that are kind of measuring, but they're not designed to measure.
[00:16:25] Robert Cromeans: They're designed to help. And all I've got to do is show them when I look at numbers, you're going to love this. I was looking at numbers this year. I said, it's like a horoscope and which way we say horror can be very interesting. It's one of the other. It could be the most horrible year you're ever going to have, or this is your, your Sagittarius.
[00:16:41] Robert Cromeans: You're going to be in love and find money because these numbers, if you play with them and see how they affect. Um, How many KPIs are we talking about? Three or four. We're not talking about a universe of numbers here. Yeah, just three or four actions that you can manipulate to change your outcome to give you the lifestyle that you deserve.
[00:16:58] Antony Whitaker: And what are the numbers that you focus on with your team in the salons 
[00:17:02] Robert Cromeans: right now I'm crazy about average ticket. I looked at the performance of our team. We had 14, 000 guests. We had an average ticket of this much. If we had to have a ratio of service, 1. 5 ratio of service at a 2. 0 would just be multiple service per guest.
[00:17:17] Robert Cromeans: We had had 2. 2 in the kitty instead of 1. 7. 
[00:17:20] Antony Whitaker: Okay. You completely lost me there. 
[00:17:22] Mary Cromeans: So, so let me translate, let me translate for Robert. So first of all, we do use, we have a lot of apps and things like that. Start when you come to work for our salons. We let you know that Robert's big thing is that numbers influence behavior?
[00:17:36] Mary Cromeans: So do we have permission to talk about numbers with you because we're going to coach you cool So our salon director starts with that. So if you don't want to talk about it, you might not be a great fit for us Yeah, so it kind of is 
[00:17:46] Antony Whitaker: so even though you're these really creative guys and the cell is really creative You put on the board right from day one Numbers matter.
[00:17:52] Antony Whitaker: Productivity matters. Yeah, cool. And that's your culture. And there's no, there's no shame in that. There's nothing. 
[00:17:57] Robert Cromeans: Yeah. So it's not a surprise. 
[00:17:59] Antony Whitaker: It's like, this is a business guys. We have a lot of fun. We're creative. We do lots of good stuff, but yeah, without there being money in the, till the end of the week and productivity per person and average bills, et cetera, then this business doesn't work.
[00:18:10] Antony Whitaker: So, you're making them aware of that. 
[00:18:12] Robert Cromeans: We are a for profit business and we don't, none of us. Got into this industry to be starving artists. So, we're going to go from that. Yeah. Um, but we do use these or in the salon. So, all of the team have it downloaded on their phone and we Robert texts from there. So that's kind of cool.
[00:18:27] Robert Cromeans: You get to do group text messages or single. So he'll send out and I do it too. And our salon directors do it. So it'd be like, you know, Great job today on Take Home Antony, way to go.
[00:18:35] Antony Whitaker: Let me just jump in there because I know what ZZOR is and it's a fantastic little tool. And for any of our audience who've never heard of it, because in Australia, the UK, Europe, they won't know what ZZOR is because it's very American centric at this point.
[00:18:47] Antony Whitaker: Oh, okay. Just explain what, what ZZOR is and how it works. 
[00:18:50] Mary Cromeans: So, it's an app that you can use on your phone, but it integrates with your POS system. It'll showcase every single one of your stylists and their totals, and it can measure them basically. So, there's a leaderboard. It tells you how much money you've done for the day.
[00:19:07] Mary Cromeans: It'll, um, and it's coded by red or green. So, if you're in the red, that means you're under, and when you get to green, that means you're, you're winning and you're making money from, and it compares from year to day. It tells you in the moment, it tells you month to date quarter to date. Um, and you can see what your, your, um, coworkers are doing as well.
[00:19:26] Mary Cromeans: So, for us with multiple salons, it makes it really nice because I can, you know, see what the top person in the Las Vegas salon is doing. And I want to see at the end of the night, if I beat them. 
[00:19:36] Antony Whitaker: Yeah. So, it's a, it's a productivity. Uh, based app, which is, uh, which integrates into different point of sale systems and it sits on the stylist phone.
[00:19:47] Antony Whitaker: So, the stylist can sit in the staff room and have a look at their figures and their goals and their results in real time. Yes. Cool. 
[00:19:53] Mary Cromeans: And it's great for the managers and owners too, because you can coach from it rather than having to say, we need to have a meeting at 12 o'clock. Exactly. Yeah. So, and it's, it's exciting.
[00:20:01] Mary Cromeans: And cool. Yeah. 
[00:20:04] Robert Cromeans: I can just look at today's number and say. Today, you're the top take home artist in my company, and then I can text Mary and say this week so far, you're the best I've seen. And this month, this quarter, I can go on and on. So, 4 people got a text of love. Yeah, and then they have visibility. So, even though there's a code that protects Mary's identity to some degree, they still know.
[00:20:25] Robert Cromeans: This lady had a 1, 200 day yesterday and they want to know who she is. So they admire each other from a distance and they push each other because it's visible. When we started the business, no salon in the world would show you the numbers. Nobody would show you the book, the book. I mean, we used to lock that sucker up.
[00:20:43] Robert Cromeans: And back then there was no phone to take a photo of it. People leave and you had the book. I got the book. Nobody knows what a book is. So my young step, what was the book? What was the book? Yeah. So the reality today is the transparency in the business that now my hairdressers do have connection with the client.
[00:20:57] Robert Cromeans: And now you have visibility to the data, the data, the company as a team, every individual in the team, there's no hiding it. And I think that's the future of the beauty industry. Too often. The owner is left with the responsibility. To me, it's sharing that load with the team. So, they start to think in numbers, like painting by numbers.
[00:21:14] Antony Whitaker: So, so tell me how you said, let me address the coaching thing. How do you, so you're looking at their numbers. They're looking at their numbers. There's obviously times where you have to have a little bit of a come to Jesus and have a talk about our numbers here. Talk me through that. What does that look like?
[00:21:26] Antony Whitaker: What does the conversation look like? What do you say? 
[00:21:29] Robert Cromeans: Um, just to be clear, and I learned this because for those of you guys, I've never seen me on stage I got a mouth on me. I can say some stuff. So one thing I pay attention to Facebook and especially Instagram is what you put into print is never goes away.
[00:21:46] Robert Cromeans: So for me, when I look at Caesar, I just go for the positive behaviors. You are the top pair. You're the awesomest. You had 12 clients today. You. And what I love to sometimes go, do I need to come shake you? Like, I mean, I get it, but I can't deliver that in an email or a text. I cannot put harmful words into print because I just think it lasts even our relationship.
[00:22:07] Robert Cromeans: We don't say harsh things to each other ever because later you're going to have remorse against it. So, for me, I like to tell people what I'm after over what I'm not wanting. So, you know, I'm going to look at numbers and go, what's going on here. I still just figure if I put the buzz out to three people in that store that they did awesome here, they did.
[00:22:25] Robert Cromeans: I'm hoping everybody else is hungering for that attention. Now, just to be honest, Antony, I travel the world. I'll text these people sometimes and they'll go, who is this? They don't really know it's me. And I go, it's Robert Cromeans they're like that. Yeah. And then they, 
[00:22:40] Antony Whitaker: it's a, it's a, it's a cloud-based thing.
[00:22:43] Antony Whitaker: You're in Japan or whatever. You can see that, you know, whoever of your stylist has had a record week or whatever record day, and you can send them a text directly from the app saying, you know, you killed it, baby. 
[00:22:55] Robert Cromeans: Well, yeah, we have a salon not doing as well as it could have. And when I looked at the individual performance, it wasn't them.
[00:23:02] Robert Cromeans: It's probably the lack of team. It was so many things because they were performing. They had 16, 17 percent new percentage of new requests, which is a good indicator. Um, you give me a 20, I'll show you how to double your business every couple of months, you give me a three, I'll tell you, you'd be working forever, getting nowhere.
[00:23:19] Robert Cromeans: And in all of these things from reputation, repeat business, um, every single part, they were high, high, high. So, some of these numbers is just the encouragement. And again, I'm quick to go to numbers. Uh, I think it's something that there's got to be other ways to look at it. You touched on it today. It can be a bottle.
[00:23:37] Robert Cromeans: It can be a dollar. It could be, you know, there's other ways and we all, you know, change that up. But for our organization, we're apples to apples and you trying to move me over there
[00:23:46] Antony Whitaker: Mary's got a hand up. 
[00:23:47] Robert Cromeans: My wife, my wife has her hand up. I think I was worried that I wouldn't let her talk, but I think I just got to go.
[00:23:53] Robert Cromeans: Yeah. What are we going to say? What are we going to say? 
[00:23:57] Mary Cromeans: No. I was just going to say before you went too far? Some of the things that we do, Robert, a hundred percent, what he was saying is very like healthy outcome forward focus positive. He's the visionary of our company. So yes, he does that. So, incomes are salon directors and the people who help to manage and they do a lot of.
[00:24:13] Mary Cromeans: Bullet coaching. For example, the salon I work at in downtown San Diego, my salon director, Sue, she's been with, been with Robert us for, you know, over 17 years. So that coaching comes from her. Sometimes it comes from our other teammates, but she does bullet coaching where in the moment, you know, Robert says this all the time too, but like Antony, you had a new guest today.
[00:24:32] Mary Cromeans: She was in for a haircut. How did that go? Well, it was okay. You know, and then she'll say, well, you know, I noticed you didn't upgrade her to a treatment or to a color. What happened, you know, well, I wasn't sure I got nervous. I didn't have confidence, but what are you going to do next time when that happens?
[00:24:45] Mary Cromeans: So, she coaches more in the moment of it to kind of help them see how they can do better rather than like being taken in the office to be made to feel like you're in trouble for not doing it. 
[00:24:54] Antony Whitaker: Sure. So, do you have a sort of a good cop, bad cop thing going on? I mean, to Sue the bad cop and no good cop or anything.
[00:25:01] Mary Cromeans: No, no. Sue's really great at following through on Robert's vision. She doesn't ever falter on that. And she always says she'll say yes until she has to say no. So, I think the team really believe in her and they trust her. And she really wants the cool thing about her is that she really wants the hairdressers to be successful.
[00:25:18] Mary Cromeans: So, you would almost think that she was a hairdresser because that's what Robert wants. He really wants to see the success of it. So, she's more than happy to help get you there, but I wouldn't say there's good cop, bad cop. She doesn't, we respect her enough. Like you don't really get in trouble. You don't want to have to get in trouble, you know, you want to do good.
[00:25:38] Mary Cromeans: So that Robert, Robert and Sue are saying, oh my God, you killed it. Like when we do morning powwow, Sue does the celebrations and you want to be recognized in front of all of your peers and your coworkers, you know? So, it's like another layer of it. Like you get the text message from Robert and then the next morning, you're in front of everybody morning powwow before your day starts and then you get that shout out.
[00:25:58] Antony Whitaker: So, okay. Let me just jump back in there. Morning powwow. Is that every morning? Yep. Right. How long is it? Pretty short. 10, 15 minutes. Right. Sometimes five. Depends. And what does that look like? What happens? 
[00:26:10] Robert Cromeans: It can go from a birthday celebration. Well done. Antony, you kicked us on take home. Take home is retail, by the way.
[00:26:15] Robert Cromeans: Take home. What do you think? Sounds sexier. Let's victories, celebrations. What are we out of? We had 12 new guests yesterday. We got 16 coming in today. Tabby kicked ass. She did it. We were just a little bit on track or we're at a six end. Yeah. Okay. So, it's not always the rah, rah, rah, but it can be a hundred things.
[00:26:36] Robert Cromeans: It could be something we just got in. Something we're looking forward to. It could be the next class that's coming in. Yeah. Education that we're doing with some of our selected guests. So that's a school culture thing. I'm not quite sure if you've ever heard it before, but they do it every day in the schools.
[00:26:51] Robert Cromeans: So, we adapted as a salon and the resistance you get on this one. People are going to come in early to have a chit chat. Yeah. 
[00:26:56] Antony Whitaker: We see that every day in school in, in Sassoon, in London, because You all worked as educators, you all worked in separate parts of the building. You'd never see each other otherwise. So, we would have a morning powwow for 10 or 15 minutes to get on the same page and then out of there and you wouldn't see each other until the end of the day again.
[00:27:11] Robert Cromeans: So, what show do we do without having a powwow? What show do you think I make happen in front of millions of people? That we didn't have a chit chat first 
[00:27:19] Mary Cromeans: We look forward to it at the salon, actually, you know, and sometimes when, and it's not a big deal, you've run in late sometimes it happens, but it's, you're so mortified if you're late and you're missing powwow or you come in in the middle of it and it's just like, ah, but you know, is it a sit-down thing?
[00:27:33] Robert Cromeans: No, it's right at the reservation. Stand up, stand at the desk and they wonder what we're doing. We hug them and we give them and they're like, wow, when have they ever been to a business people were having a meeting to start the day. I think the guests probably the most impressed they ever are with us is when they walk in at the nine o'clock power.
[00:27:52] Mary Cromeans: Sometimes we ask them if they have anything to offer, do you guys want to say anything at the end? And they're like, Oh, Oh no, it's okay. You know, they get all flustered. 
[00:28:00] Robert Cromeans: Just to be fair, I have some operations seven days a week. So, to say everybody's starting at the same time is not it. So, you've got to find a way to deliver that type of message to get people on.
[00:28:12] Robert Cromeans: Yeah. So. When we're doing photoshoots and shows, I use a storyboard. What data and numbers are is a storyboard of what today is going to be like or not. Yeah. And it's just deadly accurate, I'm afraid. It's unlike the emotion. How are you today? I was busy. Well, your numbers don't say so. How are you doing?
[00:28:29] Robert Cromeans: I'm growing. I mean, you're not, you know, I want to see one in every five clients of yours be a new person. That's 20%. And if you're doing that, you're going to be building. If you're doing 10, you're actually not building, you're maintaining. So, your ecosystem will be off. We got pretty excited about a couple of things as a company, new referrals.
[00:28:47] Robert Cromeans: I had done a thing a couple of seasons ago where we were offering complimentary blow dries and it tickled a little activity. But what I sort of realized is what would it take to get every client committed to sending us guests? There's not a better way to get a new guest, the guest who loves you. Yeah.
[00:29:01] Robert Cromeans: So now I'm going to the team just on Monday. We're having a meeting to see, well, I'm prepared to offer many things. My average ticket is going to be 160 times six or seven business a year. It could be a 50-gift voucher. It could be a haircut, could be dinner. It could be so many things, maybe a blow dry, whatever it is.
[00:29:20] Robert Cromeans: So really trying to align to the purpose of really networking without a doubt through our clientele to see what would make you want to send me a guest? And if that was a free complimentary blow dryer treatment, it was 50. If it was, you know, a discount on takes home, all of these things. So, what we're really working with the team was, is instead of telling people what they get, let's see what would motivate you to do that.
[00:29:42] Robert Cromeans: What would motivate me? And if you say, well, what would motivate me? Starbucks card, whatever that is, then I know how to, and that way I'm going to get the whole benefit of all the clients working for me. Whereas the blow dry lady said, well, I don't like comp, I don't go in for blow dries. I blow dry my own hair or a treatment, you know, whatever it is, [00:30:00] free product may could be valet VIP booking.
[00:30:02] Robert Cromeans: It could be any of these things, not for me to say for the team. So, we're very excited to kind of. Push the team through that because I know how much this will help them because I did the numbers on it. I researched what they did. And as a team, we don't have a great location. And the only thing that shows up is your reputation.
[00:30:19] Robert Cromeans: You're either doing this, right? And it shows up or it's the opposite of that. You know, and that's a big part of it. The other thing, you know, because I work for Paul Mitchell. I probably know too much about the beauty industry. You know, the blonding is an epidemic in California. It's a state flower, but one of the biggest booms that people aren't paying attention to is great coverage.
[00:30:41] Robert Cromeans: That is the best reflection on money making repeat business. We have great coverage class to come in 12. To 16 times a year. This is better than being a barber. 
[00:30:50] Antony Whitaker: Exactly. That's, that's our generation, the baby boomer generation. They've all, they're all starting to retire. They've all got gray hair. They don't want that, you know, sixties, the new 40 or whatever. 
[00:31:01] Antony Whitaker: They might be 60, but they don't want to look 60. 
[00:31:05] Robert Cromeans: Spend some time in Italy. And I would see these old ladies in the street, they've been calling the hair for 30 years and they've got gray and gray. And now it's like orange. It looks like punk rock, but they look like Sid Vicious walking down the street, which is awesome.
[00:31:16] Robert Cromeans: I made a whole show out of it, but to me, this is a boom. This is a boom. So, what we're really doing right now with the team, we're looking for ways we can get closer to that type of customer because they're loyal. They come in more often. They're buying retail. They want. maintenance. They like changes. They may like to mention, talk about targeting a specific group.
[00:31:36] Robert Cromeans: That's the group I'm after because it's just a matter of time. I once had a menu item that said the no pluck way to handle gray. And that was based on conversations I would have with females in my chair that said I was plucking it for a while. We got to have a better solution. So, we talk about solutions.
[00:31:53] Robert Cromeans: So, we talk about lunchtime color that was to help the client who's worried about the. Commitment of color. If I commit to color, I'm going to be here for 14 hours. No lunchtime colors. You could have it done in an hour. So, working with a menu of things that help you upgrade that average experience, getting more haircut to color ratio.
[00:32:10] Robert Cromeans: And then the third piece is haircut color to treatment. That is the burger, the fries and the Coca Cola. You hit that. You don't need a lot of that. Right analogy. This is how Mary works. She is an absolutely testimony to being effective on the business. Her performance is relative to three services, a guest, whatever you charge, even if you were 20 bucks on each item, you've got a 60 ticket.
[00:32:34] Robert Cromeans: Whereas a haircut, I would have had a 20. So, when I really get down to the power of the average ticket, what is your average ticket sitting at right now? 
[00:32:41] Mary Cromeans: It's, uh, 1 76, I just looked it up today on for this month and I've been out for two weeks, but 
[00:32:48] Antony Whitaker: let me just talk about productivity for a minute. Um, give, give me an idea of the audience, an idea of what do you expect a stylist to achieve?
[00:32:57] Antony Whitaker: What, what sort of annual weekly figures do [00:33:00] you expect them to generate in, in, in total revenue?
[00:33:04] Mary Cromeans: Well, I know my personal goals and I do know that, I mean, I'm an employee of the salon. So, speaking on behalf of stylists, I know we want to be six figure earners always and trying to find the quickest way to get there.
[00:33:17] Mary Cromeans: Uh, I, my target goal for a lot, like I like to do a thousand-dollar day and if it's less than I want to just die a death. Like in our younger talent, we start them off trying to get them to a 350 a day. And then their goal is going to be 500 a day, but everybody's goals are different. Cause everybody knows what they need to live and to be happy and have the lifestyle.
[00:33:38] Mary Cromeans: So, we don't really paint that picture financially for them. But 
[00:33:43] Antony Whitaker: you'd expect a full-time stylist to be achieving a hundred grand a year in service sales. 
[00:33:50] Mary Cromeans: And then our goal is always, no matter what your service sales are 20 percent in your take home sales of retail revenue. So, we do a lot with teaching artistry in the salon and, you know, showing our guests how to do their hair.
[00:34:01] Mary Cromeans: Like, this is why I'm putting this in your hair. This is how you use the round brush or the smoothing iron. And we teach it to them. And I feel like for me, that was born in your salon. And when I first came to work for you, I never saw somebody show somebody else how to do their hair and rather than it making it that the client doesn't need me, it made them want to come to see me more.
[00:34:20] Antony Whitaker: Yeah. So, so the goal for, for the take home is 20 percent of the total sales be. In a take home product. Yes. Yeah. Cool. And are you getting that? 
[00:34:30] Mary Cromeans: Um, we strive for it all the time. You always have your superstars. And then I think, especially for us, I mean, I, you know, when you have over 50 employees and everybody at different levels and different elements, you have, you know, some that are doing it, some that, some that don't, some that are starting.
[00:34:44] Mary Cromeans: So, you get it a little bit. It comes into the middle to be a little bit, um, not always the 20%, but we're always pushing towards it. 
[00:34:51] Antony Whitaker: Of course. Yeah. Yeah. There's, there's not a lot of salons that do get 20%. There's the odd one. Most of them, if you're lucky, uh, getting close to the 10 percent mark, you know? 
[00:34:59] Robert Cromeans: So, I feel like let's just bring it up.
[00:35:01] Robert Cromeans: So, let's go for it. Let's visualize a new world. People. Yeah. 10. It means we're not even in the game and we're dealing with Amazon now. Now, if I'm buying from Amazon, I can't touch it, can't feel it, can't feel the fragrance, can't have a professional like you show me how. So not only am I after 20, I'm after 2020.
[00:35:22] Robert Cromeans: I'm prepared as now is an honor to pay the 20 percent bonus. Whereas before we paid 10, we got no result. I'm just saying we need to revisualize this. Uh, there's a few shows in the States that play, one's called The Voice. Yeah. And on The Voice, the panel's sitting there and they're all drinking something.
[00:35:38] Robert Cromeans: And it's logoed across there, whether it's Dunkin Donuts, whether it's Pepsi. It's called placement. Yeah. Uh, the guy I work for, his name's John Paul DeJoria. You may not know him, but you may have once in your life had a drink of Patron. And I remember clearly 20 years ago when nobody knew what it was, a movie with Clint Eastwood in the line of fire where he's talking to John Malkovich and he picks up the Patron and starts pouring and drinking.
[00:36:02] Robert Cromeans: And that, that launched the product. He didn't say, oh, I drink Patron just through watching it through the experience of the movie was the endorsement. So, the future of hairdressing is staging the experience from the wash house, the shampoo area, the back bowl, back wash all the way through right down to the take home theater.
[00:36:24] Robert Cromeans: Then it becomes not like selling, just you involved in them every step of the way, and you'll see sales happen. I'm after a bigger number. Uh, there's an organization over here called the artist shade. They have a 40 percent take home footprint. Some Aveda salons. I know have 30 to 40%. We got to think about it differently.
[00:36:42] Robert Cromeans: I'm not. I don't consider the Internet to be a threat. All I know is I got to be smarter and I got to bring it to life in a different way. And then I can actually see that I can compete with that. So, people who are aware because of the Internet, they're aware of hair color, they're aware of barbering, they're aware of all these things.
[00:36:57] Robert Cromeans: So, you can't say, well, be aware of all of that, Antony, but don't be aware that there's it people shopping online, you know, we are going into drones. Uh, don't be a taxi driver and an Uber generation. We are changing every single day how we all do business. And the middleman in all businesses is being challenged and McDonald's in the USA, there's now a screen and a monitor you touch.
[00:37:18] Robert Cromeans: There's not a person. 
[00:37:19] Antony Whitaker: That's the same in the UK. Now it's launching everywhere that it's incredible. So, talk about that. Talk about the changing business models. And I know. You being California based, there's been a lot of changes in employment law and touch on that, but don't, don't, don't go down that hole because that will, we will never get out of it.
[00:37:39] Robert Cromeans: We just lost our sponsorship. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. Let me just break it to a nutshell. Government made a decision that affected my business that I was absolutely hateful of. And now I'm titillated about it. Because I value your time. I can refund you a bad haircut, but not time. So, time is the sequence we have to work in and how valuable that time is. 
[00:38:00] Robert Cromeans: And an average hairdresser doesn't work 40 or 50 or 60 hours a week. So, it's about you finding a way to balance out the time effective ratio with the volume you're hitting and doing it in lesser time. Yeah, so. 
[00:38:13] Antony Whitaker: So, your, your people that are working for you, how many hours on average would they work a week?
[00:38:18] Robert Cromeans: I think the new world's a 30-hour workweek.
[00:38:20] Antony Whitaker: You got a lot of people that are 30-hour workweek. 
[00:38:23] Robert Cromeans: So, if somebody was busy, let's throw it out there. But if somebody said, I'm going to go rent a suite, you only need to rent it for 20 or 50, 25 hours. So, there's a great thing to be learned right now. And you know, for those of you, not in the U S our industry is doing so many things right now.
[00:38:37] Robert Cromeans: It's like a snow globe. Hmm. And the amount of learning I'm getting right now is beyond what I've ever seen in the whole industry, because you've got 70 percent of the American industry would rather work alone than work for you. How ugly you got to be 70 percent of the people would rather work on their own.
[00:38:56] Robert Cromeans: Yeah. Okay. So conceptually, one of my favorite things that I'm working on right now is ripping out the desk. Yeah. And this is a monster. Even my manager's like, you're really going to take my desk. I have to, I can't afford to put 10 or 12 percent of the profit onto the desk because just a middleman in some occasions is like, you know, Antony, your guest is here.
[00:39:17] Robert Cromeans: So, what the 70 percent is teaching me is they're prepared to check out their own guest and where they would usually dump it to the desk. Now they're taking care of more of the recommendation, the rebooking, they get nowhere to hide. And at the end of the day, I'll pay them more. 
[00:39:31] Antony Whitaker: So just explain to us what that looks like.
[00:39:33] Antony Whitaker: So, there's no reception desk in the salon, meaning there's no receptionist. 
[00:39:37] Robert Cromeans: Correct. 
[00:39:37] Antony Whitaker: So, is there a, is there a, uh, what do you call 'em? A Maitre d' salon coordinator? Absolutely. So, there's someone walking around. Could be a host, coordinate a host. The whole, the whole shebang 
[00:39:46] Robert Cromeans: on minimum wage. 
[00:39:48] Antony Whitaker: Yeah. Okay. So, so I, I'm a, I'm, I'm the stylist.
[00:39:51] Antony Whitaker: I finished my client. There is no desk. Where do I check them out? How do I check them out? What does that 
[00:39:56] Robert Cromeans: well just 'cause I wanna slam dunk this idea. How can a client be in the salon for 3 hours sitting and then you're going to make her stand in line to pay. Okay, so the 1st thing I want you to do is find words to help it happen.
[00:40:06] Robert Cromeans: Let's just 1st of all talk about express checkout. So that just means while you're processing, I'm going to offer you express checkout, which I can come deliver your bill anytime. Cause you said, yeah, I'd love express checkout. If you walk in, it could be a kiosk, a pad, something you hit. I'm here. Give them the number.
[00:40:22] Robert Cromeans: Just like valet companies are doing and they will text you sport clips, big company in America doing billion dollars' worth of men's haircuts. Now text you when your stylist is ready. Yeah. They never take walk ins, but now they're prepared to text you when there's a style technology can set us free. So is a salon
[00:40:40] Robert Cromeans: necessarily need a reservationist, perhaps on peak times, you've got 100 guests coming in. But is it the 1st thing in the morning? Is that the last thing at the night? And I just think that the hairdresser not dropping and ditching it, taking care of it themselves. Yeah, I think it's going to be an interesting role model.
[00:40:56] Robert Cromeans: I work with a guy has 1000 stories. He has no receptionist. 1000, his name is Rottner. All right, so 1000 stores, but when I first heard that, I then asked the next question, what's your average ticket? He said 36, which told me why he didn't have a desk. Yeah. So, I'm very. 
[00:41:15] Antony Whitaker: That's his average ticket. So that's including color.
[00:41:18] Antony Whitaker: What an average ticket price haircut, 
[00:41:20] Robert Cromeans: So, you have no room for a desk there because that would have added 14 to 18 points to their business. So, when I set labor, I want 3 percent of my labor to be reservation 3 percent to be assistance, rising stars. And these are the fluctuating points. But yet there's businesses I own that have creeped into 10 and 12 percent based on a lower.
[00:41:40] Robert Cromeans: Average ticket in, you know, if it's a new talent salon, they don't have 150 average ticket yet. They're hitting that 55. I'm just saying I would rather pay them a little more to take care of their own stuff than providing somebody through the middle. Yeah. So, it's like the Apple store. Everyone's been to do an app.
[00:41:57] Robert Cromeans: You want to buy something? There's a magic draw that opens up and they take your payment. They've got a ticket from anywhere. Yeah. Okay. Okay. There's people on the beach selling beads that they can take a card. Yeah. I mean, it's just, the world has changed here.
[00:42:10] Antony Whitaker: Yeah. Do you do online booking Mary in the salon?
[00:42:12] Mary Cromeans: Yes. Right. 
[00:42:13] Antony Whitaker: So, for color, how does that work with the example you were talking about before, you know, like this color could take, you know, four or five, six hours, whatever. Um, I'm a client booking in online. Oh, I want to have some balayage. How does it work when it's an online booking? What are some of the challenges you have?
[00:42:28] Antony Whitaker: How do you get around? 
[00:42:29] Mary Cromeans: Well, it's pretty cool. The way that all these apps, we have a salon app that's through salon clouds app, and so we have a Robert Cromeans salon app for all the stores and basically Sue, who again, our salon director. She worked with the people who did the app, like we all, we set it up and then she sets it up time time wise.
[00:42:48] Mary Cromeans: So, I have certain timing. I like, I like to be booked on the 45. Tony likes to be booked on the 30. Robert wants to be booked haircuts only. So, you personalize it to each one. Um, there's some where it says like corrective color. You have to call. Yeah. So, you can't make that reservation. Um, unicorn colors, you know, if it starts to finish, please call for that extensions come in for the consultation.
[00:43:11] Mary Cromeans: So, if it's, if it's a little bit more labor intensive, you got to call the salon to get that reservation to make sure it's booked properly. Yeah. And so, it's, I mean, of course things happen, but for the most part, it helps to take away a lot of the kinks and you can, you know, you can do your regular.
[00:43:25] Mary Cromeans: Highlights your color, a haircut treatment. You can add on services throughout. You can, they can leave notes to the person making the reservation. I have a ton of hair. I might need more time. So, our reservation is, we'll go through and check the notes and things like that just to make any of those adjustments.
[00:43:41] Mary Cromeans: Yeah. Yeah. But we kind of helped to make it, you know, she makes it foolproof by. Making those adjustments and personalizing it to every single, um, every single stylist. Like if I don't do perms, then that's not going to be an option that comes up under my name when you're trying to book with me.
[00:43:57] Antony Whitaker: Got you.
[00:43:57] Antony Whitaker: Okay. Okay. Um, one of the things we touched on was, uh, changing business models, et cetera. And I know we've had conversations before about. Paying people on how to pay people. And I know that you've had some of these new laws forced on you, but it's forced you to get very creative with different ways of paying people.
[00:44:16] Antony Whitaker: Um, do you want to talk a little bit about that? 
[00:44:18] Robert Cromeans: The stylist understanding of this is zero, zero. They never really understood how they get paid the first time. It's true. I'm in schools all the time. And I go, how are you getting paid? They're like, oh, you know? Yeah. Nothing really nice. I was in a school once.
[00:44:32] Robert Cromeans: She goes, I'm going to go work in the Marchie for 73 an hour. I go, there's a career right there. The Ma Cherie, 70, she knew what it was getting paid. Yeah. Really? 
[00:44:40] Antony Whitaker: Wow. Okay. Well do it here. Yeah. Right. 
[00:44:43] Robert Cromeans: Ain't no talking back there.
[00:44:48] Antony Whitaker: That's true. 
[00:44:50] Robert Cromeans: So. The thing that I think is, you know, that we've got to get to is just there's, there's a shift happening. So, we've also dealing with the thing called freelance. A lot of people in the States call it booth renting. You've probably heard that term, but it's freelance. And I think it's a beautiful thing that, um, that we've seen some beautiful operations in the U S do really well with.
[00:45:11] Robert Cromeans: And, um, what I'm saying, but there's still advantages of working with a team. Yeah. The thing that I really instill in our company is that we work together. So, Mary's working as a team. If I'm in the salon, I don't have a client. I'm passing foil. I'm making French press. I do dishes. We work as a team and that makes us quite unique.
[00:45:28] Robert Cromeans: So, the client feels that we're not so worried about a client saying, well, I can't get in next week because Mary's in Italy. Mary's already referred you to Antony. We're not so worried about you. We want you to be loyal to the store, not loyal to the person. I mean, it'd be true, truly and honest with it.
[00:45:44] Robert Cromeans: Right. Um, so the team aspect of it is the part. So, these changes are starting to make, think about it a little differently of what we got to do. And you know, how I was surprised to find out how small and hours most people work. And then I, cause before I wasn't very forgiving on the big number. I go, well, how could you only have that?
[00:46:03] Robert Cromeans: And then was I really studied how many hours they're putting in? Uh, I was quite staggered by it and I think it's trending downwards. They want to work less and less 
[00:46:11] Antony Whitaker: They want to work less, but they still don't earn as much or more. 
[00:46:15] Mary Cromeans: Well, we had to do all the forced us to understand time by, I mean, I started doing hair a million years ago, like 99, 1994, so I've never clocked in.
[00:46:25] Mary Cromeans: So, the last two or three years in the salon, I'm like, oh, I have to clock in. It just, it's not. I'm a hairdresser. I'm here to work. I'm going to be here all day. If I have clients, I'm going to take my guests. Yeah. The more hair I do, the more I get paid. If I don't have hair to do, I don't get paid. And that was that's sort of the commission reality or mentality.
[00:46:43] Mary Cromeans: Well, yeah. And so, for the, and since the Paul Mitchell schools for us, where we, um. That became a habit because going to beauty school in the States, you have to clock in for your hours. So, California to become licensed, you need 1600 hours. So, the new talent coming through the salons are used to clocking in because that's how they had to get their license.
[00:47:03] Mary Cromeans: But some of the older generation, and even though I don't consider myself old, I just didn't ever clock in. I just. If I had a bus day, I mean, clocking in, I wasn't going to still get paid for it. It just, you didn't bring in any money. Therefore, you don't get paid. And that's not the case anymore. So, we really had to dig in and see.
[00:47:19] Mary Cromeans: Thankfully we started everyone clocking in. So that was a helpful thing. So, we had their hours through the year to compare to what their revenue was. So, we just had to do more math, which all hairdressers love. And so, we had to divide the amount of revenue brought in by the hours and compared to the commission rate.
[00:47:35] Mary Cromeans: I mean, I can go on for a long time. I don't know if I'm excited to hear it. So that's sort of how we had to break it down again, working backwards that way. And then and figuring it out. And it's actually kind of a blessing. 
[00:47:45] Antony Whitaker: Yeah. So no, you weren't you weren't heading down a rabbit hole with that. That was very important information.
[00:47:51] Antony Whitaker: The amount. Of revenue they produce divided by the amount of hours they're in there equals an alley, right? And then you were comparing that to what were they getting as a commission? And it's very interesting exercise to do. 
[00:48:05] Robert Cromeans: Yeah, to be honest, it's an honor and I want you to think of this because, um. Six or half a dozen.
[00:48:13] Robert Cromeans: They're the same. Yeah. Okay. So, if I'm saying that my goal is to pay you all 50%, I'm a smart guy. I'm smarter than a friend of mine discovered a new word and she was trying to explain it to me. And then the next day I came down, well, it's six or half a dozen. It's the same. Yeah. Uh, Mary's height and inches.
[00:48:31] Robert Cromeans: How tall are you? I'm five, six or in, in seven years, okay. 176. Maybe I don't really know if I was paying you 43 percent 45, I use that as a way. And what I'm excited about as an owner for the future is to watch people. Mary just got a 10 an hour raise based on her performance. So, we look at it every 12 weeks.
[00:48:52] Robert Cromeans: Antony, if you're up, we move it up. If you're down, we move it down.
[00:48:55] Antony Whitaker: So every 12 weeks, the hourly rate can change up or down and that's legal and that's legal. Yes. In California. Yes. Based on. Performance. What we said before. Yeah. A number of hours work by total sales, divide it and you come up with the figure.
[00:49:11] Antony Whitaker: That's your hourly rate for the next 12 weeks. And every 12 weeks that gets revisited and this is now going to be your hourly rate. And so, cause I know that that's the difference. A lot of people say, for example, in Australia, we will not get their head around this because you've always had to be paid a guaranteed hourly rate, whether you sat in the back room or not.
[00:49:28] Antony Whitaker: And that has now just been bought in to California, but not necessarily. Well, yes, it's now being bought into California. Yes, they have to be paid. So, for example, regardless of what they do, 
[00:49:38] Mary Cromeans: yes, even say I have a full day booked, you know, and three of my guests canceled, I'm still going to get paid my hourly rate.
[00:49:45] Mary Cromeans: Yeah. No matter what, where before, if those three guests got canceled, obviously that would affect my commission because I would have brought in less money. So, in the end, it is a little bit more security for the stylist where in our hairdressing world, we don't always have the most security. Yeah. So that part's kind of good.
[00:50:00] Mary Cromeans: And then even in the end, if Robert is paying me when I don't have a guest, that guest is going to reschedule for the most part. 
[00:50:07] Robert Cromeans: I mean, I thought you were going to say, because if you ever had somebody say, well, that's not my job because in commission, yeah, it is your job in commission mentality. The only time I'm being paid is if I'm touching hair in this new hourly way.
[00:50:20] Robert Cromeans: If I get a girl that works for me right now, I'm making 65 bucks an hour. She has no client. It's not in my best interest not to have her. Washing towels, helping somebody else. I mean, she's now part of the crew. I mean, there's no choice. You can't then turn around and say, well, it's not as long as you're being paid per hour, you've got to contribute.
[00:50:39] Robert Cromeans: And I think for me, because we've already had a team-based thing, but occasionally people would just kind of think, well, that's not me. Somebody else should, you know, now that I know I'm paying you and some of you, it could be premium, then you've got to help the team because you're, you're being paid to be there.
[00:50:55] Robert Cromeans: Being paid to be there, this changes a big dynamic in my mind, because commission said it just didn't feel as structured again. It wasn't transparent. My mom asked me, what are you making? I said, 50%. She said of what I said, I don't know. Mom, did, you know, so I get the Europeans and people in Australia have not been affected by some of this, but trust me, the freelance business model is quite an incredible thing.
[00:51:19] Robert Cromeans: The guy makes these money up front. It's like you're getting paid paid people are paying to work there. It's having an effect and it's happening in the UK. I know it is. I haven't seen it in Australia, but it's happening in cities. All around the States. People said it will never happen here. We used to be very much from Mississippi towards West coast.
[00:51:36] Robert Cromeans: All three of my salons have been in all 98 percent with rent markets forever. And then as you start to move past the Mississippi now in New Jersey, New York, it's happening every single day. It's just, things are changing and we've got to adapt. 
[00:51:49] Antony Whitaker: Okay. Well, listen, uh, we need to wrap up, but whereabouts, can you just tell us now, whereabouts can our audience find you on social?
[00:51:57] Robert Cromeans: Mary, let me take that for you. Well, I'm at Cuomo Cromeans. How do you spell it? How do you spell C U O M O C R O M E A N S at Robert Cromeans for everything for him. He's at Robert Cromeans on Instagram, Robert Cromeans on his two Facebook pages. Uh, Robert Cromeans business. com is a website where he has a lot of his business CDs where you can download the audio files and listen to things like, um, interviews with Vidal Sassoon, John Paul Dejoria, uh, other various business coaches and cool people in the industry, even some haircut videos and robertcromeans.com. 
[00:52:36] Antony Whitaker: Cool. Fantastic. All right. Well, listen guys, it has been an absolute pleasure. Wealth of knowledge, wealth of enthusiasm and passion for the industry. And let's hope that this is, is the first of many on these podcasts and you contributing your thoughts on ideas because, uh, it's been a real pleasure to have you here today.
[00:52:53] Antony Whitaker: So Robert, Mary, thank you ever so much and, uh, we'll speak to you again. 
[00:52:59] Mary Cromeans: Thank you. 
[00:53:00] Robert Cromeans: Thanks. 
[00:53:03] Antony Whitaker: Thank you for listening to today's podcast. If you'd like to connect with us, you'll find us at growmysalonbusiness.com or on Facebook and Instagram at growmysalonbusiness. And if you enjoyed tuning into our podcast, make sure that you subscribe, like, and share it with your friends until next time.
[00:53:21] Antony Whitaker: This is Antony Whitaker wishing you continued success.