Julie Miecamp sets the stage at (00:00:04), framing how CLO ETFs jumped from niche to mainstream and why that shift matters now. She brings in Octus reporter Diana Bravo at (00:01:04) to lay out the stakes and context for the interview. John Kerschner joins Diana at (00:03:12) and walks through the ETF origin story, why CLOs fit the wrapper, how active design and investor education drove scale, and what the adoption curve really looked like for retail vs institutions.
Midway, they use the April “Liberation Day” wobble as a live case study, starting at (00:12:22), to explain spread moves, why price and NAV briefly diverged, and how the structure behaved under stress. The conversation then moves into ETF plumbing at (00:26:08) and in-kind vs cash creates/redeems at (00:28:23), clarifying why AUM down doesn’t automatically mean forced selling.
The global lens opens at (00:15:24) with Europe and UCITS access, including offshore tax considerations and early AUM. Competition and market share dynamics kick in around (00:13:10), highlighting how education and liquidity helped sustain first-mover advantage. Kerschner’s macro and risk outlook starts at (00:33:27), followed by a growth view on potential AUM scaling in the next 12–18 months. The rapid-fire close begins at (00:39:46). Julie returns to wrap the episode at (00:42:16) with takeaways and the subscribe nudge.
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CreditsHost: Julie MiecampGuest Interviewer: Diana BravoGuest: John Kerschner, Global Head of Securitized Products, Janus HendersonProduced and edited by: Tanya Hubbard
Show Notes
Julie Miecamp sets the stage at (
00:00:04), framing how CLO ETFs jumped from niche to mainstream and why that shift matters now. She brings in Octus reporter
Diana Bravo at (
00:01:04) to lay out the stakes and context for the interview.
John Kerschner joins Diana at (
00:03:12) and walks through the ETF origin story, why CLOs fit the wrapper, how active design and investor education drove scale, and what the adoption curve really looked like for retail vs institutions.
Midway, they use the April “Liberation Day” wobble as a live case study, starting at (
00:12:22), to explain spread moves, why price and NAV briefly diverged, and how the structure behaved under stress. The conversation then moves into ETF plumbing at (
00:26:08) and in-kind vs cash creates/redeems at (
00:28:23), clarifying why AUM down doesn’t automatically mean forced selling.
The global lens opens at (
00:15:24) with Europe and UCITS access, including offshore tax considerations and early AUM. Competition and market share dynamics kick in around (
00:13:10), highlighting how education and liquidity helped sustain first-mover advantage. Kerschner’s macro and risk outlook starts at (
00:33:27), followed by a growth view on potential AUM scaling in the next 12–18 months. The rapid-fire close begins at (
00:39:46). Julie returns to wrap the episode at (
00:42:16) with takeaways and the subscribe nudge.
----more----
Credits
Host: Julie Miecamp
Guest Interviewer: Diana Bravo
Guest: John Kerschner, Global Head of Securitized Products, Janus Henderson
Produced and edited by: Tanya Hubbard
- (00:04) - Opening: Julie sets the stage
- (01:04) - Julie brings Diana Bravo
- (03:12) - John joins Diana: ETF history and why CLOs fit the wrapper
- (12:22) - Liberation Day: what the wobble revealed
- (15:24) - Europe & UCITS: the global build-out
- (18:46) - CLO 101: cash flows, tranches, resilience
- (26:08) - ETF plumbing: creations, redemptions, NAV dynamics
- (28:23) - In-kind vs cash: flows without fire sales
- (30:18) - Flow feedback loop: ETFs and underlying prices
- (33:27) - Macro outlook: rates, recession odds, spread risk
- (36:08) - Growth view: can AUM double in 12–18 months?
- (39:46) - Rapid-fire: leverage, statistics, resilience, rules to change
- (42:16) - Closing: Julie’s wrap and subscribe CTA
What is Industry Insights: Exclusive Interviews?
Industry Insights sits down with the people who run the firms that move the credit market. Private credit, CLOs, restructuring, munis and everything in between. Every episode brings a new guest and a new interviewer from across Octus, talking through what they're seeing, what's changing and where they think it all goes next.