WEBVTT 00:00:00.010 --> 00:00:10.470 I think podcasts are terrific for the way that they can really immerse you and kind of give you an emotional connection to the story that you're engaging with. 00:00:10.470 --> 00:00:15.680 And I think that is just so vital to like caring about the history of learning, right? 00:00:15.779 --> 00:00:17.380 That is worth its weight in gold. 00:00:17.449 --> 00:00:20.330 To find a way to care about what it is you're learning about. 00:00:21.260 --> 00:00:26.310 Welcome to Continuing Studies, a podcast for higher education podcasters to learn and get inspired. 00:00:26.440 --> 00:00:29.370 I'm Neil McPhedran, founder of Podium Podcast Co. 00:00:29.635 --> 00:00:33.805 And I'm Jennifer Lee, founder of Jpod Creations, podcasting is broadcasting. 00:00:33.805 --> 00:00:35.585 We want you to know you're not alone. 00:00:35.635 --> 00:00:40.525 In fact, there are many of you higher ed podcasters out there, and we can all learn from each other. 00:00:40.955 --> 00:00:42.554 That is right, Jen. 00:00:42.695 --> 00:00:58.565 We can all learn from each other, and a great place that we're trying to build that spot for higher education podcaster community is at higheredpods.com and at the Higher Ed Pod Con, which is upcoming on July 12th in Chicago. 00:00:58.624 --> 00:01:03.514 And we have just opened up call for speakers. 00:01:03.665 --> 00:01:08.945 So if you go to HigherEdPodCon.com, there's info there. 00:01:09.785 --> 00:01:12.585 Let us know if you want to speak or join a panel. 00:01:12.595 --> 00:01:14.815 We're also going to do panels, so you can submit a panel. 00:01:14.815 --> 00:01:16.235 I've got some idea for panels. 00:01:16.435 --> 00:01:18.185 Can you give us any teases? 00:01:18.414 --> 00:01:33.139 Well, one tease that I can announce here first is that we've got a keynote speaker and our keynote speaker is Matt Abrahams from Think Fast Talk Smart, the arguably biggest higher ed podcast. 00:01:33.139 --> 00:01:34.739 I would say the biggest. 00:01:34.739 --> 00:01:35.189 Yeah. 00:01:35.359 --> 00:01:35.579 Yeah. 00:01:35.709 --> 00:01:36.249 I think so. 00:01:36.249 --> 00:01:37.059 So that's exciting. 00:01:37.059 --> 00:01:39.009 So there we have it. 00:01:39.019 --> 00:01:44.899 And we've had actually a whole bunch of interest from other folks that are interested in speaking. 00:01:44.899 --> 00:01:46.149 So I'm super excited. 00:01:46.529 --> 00:01:48.210 And you and I will be speaking. 00:01:48.380 --> 00:01:48.819 That's right. 00:01:48.880 --> 00:01:53.420 Well, we will be recording at least one episode, if not a couple of episodes there. 00:01:54.680 --> 00:01:55.300 Live. 00:01:55.440 --> 00:01:59.960 Okay.. Today we have Daniel Story from the University of California, Santa Cruz. 00:02:00.039 --> 00:02:01.449 Go banana slugs. 00:02:01.710 --> 00:02:06.860 By far the best university mascot that we have talked to, don't you think, Jen? 00:02:07.200 --> 00:02:07.650 I do. 00:02:07.650 --> 00:02:15.340 I really wish the podcast topic was, How do you ever figure out that a slug would be a good mascot? 00:02:15.360 --> 00:02:24.790 I feel like that's just as much as my question back in high school, because New Westminster, they're saying is, hi yak. 00:02:24.950 --> 00:02:30.380 And they were like, let's get a yak as our mascot, because we're the hi yaks. 00:02:31.450 --> 00:02:32.070 So, I don't know. 00:02:32.070 --> 00:02:33.980 I feel like slug is in there. 00:02:33.990 --> 00:02:37.390 You should have gone to California's Santa Cruz as part two. 00:02:37.490 --> 00:02:39.040 But we're going to go there today. 00:02:39.500 --> 00:02:47.109 We're going to learn more about what Daniel's story is, and we're going to learn what a digital scholarship librarian is. 00:02:47.239 --> 00:02:47.720 That's right. 00:02:47.729 --> 00:02:50.750 He's a digital scholarship librarian, which is super interesting. 00:02:50.769 --> 00:02:51.690 We're going to get into that. 00:02:51.690 --> 00:02:59.519 And then, Daniel has a lot of podcast stuff on the go or audio projects, as he said, and that's his primary scholarly output. 00:02:59.539 --> 00:03:00.569 I just love that. 00:03:01.029 --> 00:03:11.325 And the two things we're going to really get into is the Stories From the Epicenter, which is a ten part documentary podcast. 00:03:11.435 --> 00:03:12.085 Very cool. 00:03:12.525 --> 00:03:21.715 And then his ongoing podcast that he produces and hosts, History in Focus, which is from the American Historical Review. 00:03:21.875 --> 00:03:23.454 So this is awesome. 00:03:23.474 --> 00:03:24.825 Let's jump into it. 00:03:25.075 --> 00:03:25.695 Let's do it. 00:03:26.565 --> 00:03:27.125 Welcome. 00:03:27.135 --> 00:03:28.454 We are excited. 00:03:28.575 --> 00:03:34.674 We have somebody that I'm not exactly sure what his job is, but we're going to figure out, Daniel Story. 00:03:34.674 --> 00:03:36.445 Also love his last name. 00:03:36.555 --> 00:03:41.055 I want to know right off the top, what is a digital scholarship librarian? 00:03:41.655 --> 00:03:42.505 Sounds cool. 00:03:42.654 --> 00:03:43.605 Thanks for having me. 00:03:43.635 --> 00:03:46.234 And what is a digital scholarship librarian? 00:03:46.710 --> 00:03:59.990 Something that I feel like I'm figuring out as the years go by, uh, longer I'm in this position, but I mean, essentially what I'm here to do is support and collaborate with both faculty and students here on my campus. 00:03:59.990 --> 00:04:07.180 I'm at University of California, Santa Cruz, who are doing a different kinds of digital work, digital research, digital creative activity. 00:04:07.280 --> 00:04:21.564 My path to this sort of job was, I'm a trained historian, but I also got into the digital humanities field while I was in grad school, and then I ended up on the job market looking for jobs where I could really center that digital component of the work. 00:04:21.844 --> 00:04:28.765 And it turns out that a lot of positions that are doing this kind of work are located in academic libraries. 00:04:29.145 --> 00:04:36.835 And so that's eventually what led me here, but on a day to day basis, I get to Interact with all kinds of people doing all kinds of different projects. 00:04:36.875 --> 00:04:43.175 And I focus mostly on different aspects of digital storytelling, including and especially podcasting. 00:04:43.495 --> 00:04:47.075 And I do a lot of GIS digital mapping work as well. 00:04:47.544 --> 00:04:50.015 So I feel like your last name really suits what you're doing. 00:04:50.620 --> 00:04:51.750 Yeah, it kind of does. 00:04:51.760 --> 00:04:57.470 That theory that your last name, like, like subliminally pushes you in certain career directions. 00:04:57.510 --> 00:05:00.799 I'm one, I guess, supporting example for that theory. 00:05:01.030 --> 00:05:11.540 Well, obviously podcasting is a big part of that, Daniel, as you mentioned, and something that struck me the first time we chatted, he said, audio projects are your primary source of scholarly output. 00:05:11.650 --> 00:05:20.115 I thought that was really interesting and that stuck with me, but really there's two main podcast projects that we want to dig into today with you. 00:05:20.775 --> 00:05:23.365 First is called Stories from the Epicenter. 00:05:23.545 --> 00:05:26.985 That is a ten part documentary podcast. 00:05:27.125 --> 00:05:29.074 You're, you were the lead producer on that. 00:05:29.085 --> 00:05:36.075 And that explores the experience and memory from the '89 earthquake in Santa Cruz. 00:05:36.275 --> 00:05:49.610 The second podcast that you're really focused on, and I would imagine spent a lot of time on, is you're the editor and host of the History in Focus podcast, which is from the American Historical Review. 00:05:49.620 --> 00:05:56.550 So maybe if, if you could just sort of explain a little bit of both of those podcasts and then we can start to dive into each of them. 00:05:57.260 --> 00:05:57.590 Yeah. 00:05:57.590 --> 00:06:11.700 So like a high level view of those two podcasts, Stories from the Epicenter was a project that I started about actually less than a year, um, into starting the job that I have here at UC Santa Cruz. 00:06:11.740 --> 00:06:12.970 I moved from the Midwest. 00:06:13.225 --> 00:06:17.325 And, you know, I'd, I'd been to California before, but I'd spent very little time here. 00:06:17.325 --> 00:06:23.505 So I was kind of wide eyed and excited to learn about the new place that I was living. 00:06:23.525 --> 00:06:30.344 And that year happened to be the thirtieth anniversary of the 1989 earthquake that hit the Bay Area. 00:06:30.754 --> 00:06:36.905 And at the time, a lot of the media focus, understandably, was on San Francisco and Oakland and that kind of area. 00:06:37.344 --> 00:06:42.929 But the epicenter of the earthquake itself was actually right outside of Santa Cruz, where I currently live. 00:06:43.249 --> 00:06:46.780 And it really like decimated the Santa Cruz downtown. 00:06:47.129 --> 00:06:51.150 And did a lot of damage to a neighboring city in our county called Watsonville. 00:06:51.549 --> 00:06:58.330 And so, yeah, seeing the 30th anniversary stuff, the different commemorations that were happening really grabbed my attention. 00:06:58.359 --> 00:07:04.989 And I was given the opportunity to work with another librarian to put together a digital exhibit commemorating the earthquake. 00:07:04.999 --> 00:07:15.249 And as part of that work, somebody said, Hey, Daniel, you might be interested in this collection of oral histories that UC Santa Cruz students did back in 1990. 00:07:15.249 --> 00:07:17.229 So like months after the earthquake. 00:07:17.330 --> 00:07:28.919 And I started listening to these oral histories and I was like, wow, this is just amazing, rich material that really immerses you in what the, this experience was and in the immediate aftermath. 00:07:28.969 --> 00:07:43.330 And, you know, I just said, this would be a fantastic podcast to really explore what that experience was like, as well as how it has been remembered and how that memory is kind of reverberated over the years in Santa Cruz and Santa Cruz County. 00:07:43.479 --> 00:07:49.070 So I launched into that and I had some terrific undergrad students working with me on it. 00:07:49.189 --> 00:07:53.550 We took some of those oral histories that were recorded back then. 00:07:53.770 --> 00:07:57.400 We ended up doing thirty new interviews with people who were still around. 00:07:57.610 --> 00:08:09.985 Some of whom were really instrumental in the kind of politics in the years after rebuilding the town, and it was just a fascinating project to work on for lots of different reasons, which, you know, I can expound on if you want. 00:08:10.005 --> 00:08:22.400 But it was also a very big learning experience for me because it was the first big kind of narrative style podcast that I took on and I'm really proud of what we did. 00:08:22.470 --> 00:08:36.579 I also go back and listen to it, and, and like probably lots of us go back to listen to our past work and think of all the things that you would change or do differently now, but yeah, that was just an amazing project that keeps coming up and keeps kind of coming back. 00:08:36.580 --> 00:08:37.899 People discover it. 00:08:38.130 --> 00:08:42.270 And reach out and that's a great thing that I was able to work on. 00:08:42.839 --> 00:08:52.040 I think narrative is something that is a little bit underrated because it is a lot more effort to do than just a traditional conversational podcast. 00:08:52.079 --> 00:09:06.179 But in the academic space, I think we've only just tapped the surface of it and we need to explore it more because I'm thinking now when you're talking about this, it would be great to have more of these audio histories. 00:09:06.189 --> 00:09:09.490 Because you get this textbook and most of us don't even read it. 00:09:09.510 --> 00:09:10.660 They give it to you. 00:09:10.670 --> 00:09:11.510 You look through it. 00:09:11.520 --> 00:09:14.180 The teacher blabbers on and then that's it. 00:09:14.540 --> 00:09:27.570 And if you could actually go in and like listen and really figure out all the history and use it as a tool to write papers and stuff, I think it would be probably more beneficial than the way that a lot of us currently learn. 00:09:27.850 --> 00:09:38.280 Yeah, I agree that a lot of opportunity that we often leave on the table when it comes to teaching history in classrooms, both at the college level and high school level. 00:09:38.340 --> 00:09:46.949 And yeah, I think podcasts are terrific for the way that they can really immerse you and kind of give you an emotional connection. 00:09:47.189 --> 00:09:48.939 to the story that you're engaging with. 00:09:48.949 --> 00:09:54.260 And I think that is just so vital to like caring about the history of learning, right? 00:09:54.449 --> 00:09:59.640 I mean, that is worth its weight in gold to find a way to care about what it is you're learning about. 00:09:59.669 --> 00:10:06.020 And I think hearing people, when it's possible, hearing from the people who were there, um, obviously that's not always possible. 00:10:06.020 --> 00:10:11.710 But when we're studying something that happened in 1989, there's plenty of voices that we can engage with. 00:10:11.990 --> 00:10:13.250 And yeah, I agree. 00:10:13.550 --> 00:10:23.390 Podcasts in the classroom, both to learn from and for, uh, students to produce, which is another part of my job to help people do podcast assignments in classrooms. 00:10:23.550 --> 00:10:27.300 I really like this, the role of a limited series. 00:10:27.410 --> 00:10:29.490 We work on a number of podcasts that are weekly. 00:10:29.720 --> 00:10:34.150 And so there's this push that we can't miss a week. 00:10:34.170 --> 00:10:35.280 We got to keep going. 00:10:35.280 --> 00:10:36.470 We got to keep producing. 00:10:36.470 --> 00:10:39.570 If we miss a week, we're going to lose an audience, push forward. 00:10:39.570 --> 00:10:47.609 And then there's this dirty word in the podcast industry, Podfade, all these podcasts that have gone to the graveyard. 00:10:47.670 --> 00:10:54.609 But I think in that discussion and focus, we neglect this role of a limited series. 00:10:54.659 --> 00:11:01.619 And going into a project thinking that it's a limited series and coming out of a project knowing it's a limited series, and how do we use it, think about it differently. 00:11:02.265 --> 00:11:08.844 Unpack that a little bit for us, if, if you could, like, where is this miniseries live and, and sort of how is it used? 00:11:09.614 --> 00:11:10.864 It wasn't a one and done. 00:11:10.875 --> 00:11:16.175 This is a project that was created to be listened to ongoing. 00:11:16.204 --> 00:11:19.175 Yeah, I, I think that's a really interesting thing to consider. 00:11:19.244 --> 00:11:29.735 So I'm a big fan of the limited series and I almost think of it a little bit analogous to the idea that you can write many, many words, but sometimes it's harder to be concise, right? 00:11:30.115 --> 00:11:34.304 And it can be harder to say, we don't just have an unlimited number of episodes here. 00:11:34.305 --> 00:11:40.774 We really have to craft the story and make it as high quality and as engaging as we can within these episodes. 00:11:40.784 --> 00:11:42.895 There's a beginning and an end and we can map that out. 00:11:43.135 --> 00:11:49.185 It just becomes a very different animal, a different kind of project to tackle than a weekly podcast or a monthly podcast or something. 00:11:49.305 --> 00:11:51.814 It's also nice to be able to make that commitment, right? 00:11:51.825 --> 00:11:54.974 We're going to work on this for this period of time, and then the project's done. 00:11:55.085 --> 00:11:57.475 So there's just lots of benefits to it, I think. 00:11:57.545 --> 00:12:11.220 In our case, and I think in many cases, if you can latch onto a topic, a project, or in the case of Stories from the Epicenter, something connected to local history, something that is notable enough to have commemorations around it from time to time. 00:12:11.619 --> 00:12:17.829 When certain anniversaries come up, then that project will have occasion to be revisited by people. 00:12:17.949 --> 00:12:22.259 And there'll be a certain inflection points along the way, which is basically what has happened for us. 00:12:22.259 --> 00:12:26.259 Like we did it, we actually released it the year after the thirtieth anniversary. 00:12:26.270 --> 00:12:28.649 And then this year is the thirty-fifth anniversary. 00:12:29.489 --> 00:12:32.729 Yeah, lo and behold, there was interest in talking about the earthquake. 00:12:33.349 --> 00:12:40.639 It ended up being re aired on campus radio, re aired some parts of it on a community radio station. 00:12:41.129 --> 00:12:46.089 And we did a little small event kind of revisiting the project here in the library where I worked. 00:12:46.329 --> 00:12:55.639 Some people use the term evergreen, but a topic that isn't gonna fade or become too dated in the way that it's presented, can be revisted again and again. 00:12:56.869 --> 00:13:10.700 And it's also, a lot of years, there's at least one faculty that I can think of, but there may be others in our history department here that uses it in a class when they're talking about oral history and talking about local history. 00:13:10.889 --> 00:13:15.430 I think there's a lot of things in there for us and for our audience here to take away. 00:13:15.430 --> 00:13:25.229 One of the things I think was really interesting is I think the fact that it's been played on the local college radio and some of these other, so like in the classroom, I think makes a lot of sense. 00:13:25.230 --> 00:13:29.880 And that's kind of where almost like first place my brain went, like that's a good thing. 00:13:29.880 --> 00:13:46.670 But I don't think we take advantage of these, like the college radio stations that are so prevalent and to put these limited series podcasts on, obviously they live in Apple and Spotify, et cetera, but like there's these other channels. 00:13:46.670 --> 00:13:47.800 I applaud you. 00:13:47.800 --> 00:13:48.610 I think that's great. 00:13:49.650 --> 00:13:57.960 Yeah, and often these, like, campus radio or other, another, there's like a sort of university podcast called the Slugcast. 00:13:58.000 --> 00:13:59.590 Oh yeah, you're a Banana Slug. 00:13:59.660 --> 00:14:02.290 Yes, our official mascot is the Banana Slug. 00:14:02.529 --> 00:14:07.470 So there's a Slugcast podcast, and they also re aired the episodes this last year. 00:14:07.660 --> 00:14:14.895 And the point I was going to make is many of these people, these entities, are actually really maybe hungry for content. 00:14:14.925 --> 00:14:23.035 They're more than happy to have, you know, like we have this slot and you're coming along saying, Hey, I have something that people might like to listen to that will fill that slot. 00:14:23.374 --> 00:14:29.004 So I think a lot of those kinds of collaborations are really, you know, mutually beneficial. 00:14:29.520 --> 00:14:31.410 And hungry for good content. 00:14:31.460 --> 00:14:32.880 I think this is something we need to stress. 00:14:32.900 --> 00:14:36.450 And I'm seeing a lot more articles about this as AI comes out. 00:14:36.700 --> 00:14:45.620 Obviously AI is a great tool to help things go faster, but they're saying now people are starting to get wise, the listener, because it's not good content. 00:14:45.629 --> 00:14:56.525 People are just flooding it because they're like, I want to have a podcast in here, well let's use this, but they're not using it as a companion and they're not getting to the nitty gritty of creating good content. 00:14:56.574 --> 00:15:06.395 And if you can create good content like you guys are doing, other people will use it because we're also starting to see on a main stage how reciprocal podcasts are. 00:15:06.455 --> 00:15:09.795 There have been children's podcasts that have been really popular. 00:15:09.955 --> 00:15:11.545 They're now being turned into books. 00:15:11.715 --> 00:15:12.905 They're being turned into movies. 00:15:13.184 --> 00:15:18.260 I feel like yours could be taken and put into a full documentary for Netflix one day. 00:15:18.420 --> 00:15:24.060 People want good ideas and they want basically the playbook on how to do it. 00:15:24.520 --> 00:15:26.380 And if you can provide them for it, then it's good. 00:15:26.380 --> 00:15:29.679 That's why I love the fact that you're also teaching, uh, your students how to do this. 00:15:29.689 --> 00:15:32.140 So what are some of the things that you're teaching them? 00:15:32.140 --> 00:15:33.570 Obviously make good content. 00:15:34.589 --> 00:15:34.989 Yeah. 00:15:35.129 --> 00:15:43.540 I mean, the kinds of things that I get to emphasize are, I mean, I'm working with students who maybe I've never tackled any project like this at all. 00:15:43.540 --> 00:15:50.279 So part of it is walking them through some of the basics, the technical components of how to record and how to edit audio. 00:15:50.590 --> 00:16:04.490 But yeah, talking about ways of shaping story and ways of approaching narrative and mapping that onto, rather than making an outline for an essay, how is it different when you're writing for spoken word and yeah. 00:16:04.490 --> 00:16:09.390 So, and the other thing that I really love to do with students is listen to other podcasts with them. 00:16:09.459 --> 00:16:16.229 And we will kind of like dissect storytelling techniques and podcasts that we appreciate. 00:16:16.270 --> 00:16:22.129 I don't know if you guys have heard of this kind of audio projects contest series, I suppose, called Audio Flux. 00:16:22.170 --> 00:16:24.579 They do a call for submissions. 00:16:24.609 --> 00:16:27.969 They have like a theme that you have to explore in some way. 00:16:28.039 --> 00:16:33.319 And then the other big constraint is the piece that you submit can be no longer than three minutes. 00:16:33.850 --> 00:16:38.370 And so they end up picking five winners and then they publish these five winners. 00:16:38.399 --> 00:16:41.270 And so by now they've done this three or four times. 00:16:41.390 --> 00:16:44.520 So there's like twenty or so of these three minute long pieces. 00:16:44.969 --> 00:16:51.240 And they're like, a really rich, beautifully sound designed story, every single one of them in three minutes. 00:16:51.460 --> 00:17:00.209 And it's perfect for playing in class with students because you can play it once and then you could say, did you notice this, this and this? 00:17:00.230 --> 00:17:01.470 Let's listen to it again. 00:17:01.480 --> 00:17:08.839 'Cause you know, three minutes you can play it two or three times and yeah, anyway, that is a great project to explore in and of itself. 00:17:08.879 --> 00:17:10.879 But that's one of the things I love to do with students. 00:17:11.234 --> 00:17:19.254 And that's another thing that I think a lot of people are learning, is a podcast or audio content does not need to be an hour. 00:17:19.554 --> 00:17:20.895 Uh, it can be three minutes. 00:17:20.905 --> 00:17:21.685 It just depends. 00:17:21.685 --> 00:17:35.860 Your content is going to dictate, your presenter is going to dictate, uh, and I come from I'm going to mention the R word, Neil, but radio and, uh, you have to be able to do your break in such a short time. 00:17:35.860 --> 00:17:40.749 Like you have to get all the meat and potatoes and make engaging in either thirty seconds or sixty seconds. 00:17:40.750 --> 00:17:41.899 'Cause we have two types of spots. 00:17:42.260 --> 00:17:55.784 And I always say that is the best training ground for people doing podcasting or content curation, because if you can make your story so strong in 30 seconds or 60 seconds, you got it made in all the other formats. 00:17:56.064 --> 00:17:57.615 Yeah, that's amazing. 00:17:57.885 --> 00:18:08.305 One of the other things you, when we chatted about Stories from the Epicenter, you mentioned there was also a community engagement component to it too. 00:18:08.315 --> 00:18:12.865 So, I love the fact, so there was a student component to it, which was super cool. 00:18:13.105 --> 00:18:15.505 And then there was a community component to it as well. 00:18:15.505 --> 00:18:18.385 Can you sort of explain that a little bit for us too, please? 00:18:18.899 --> 00:18:32.040 Yeah, I mean, kind of the origin of that was I started with material that was here in the university archive and one version of this project would have been just, let's use this material and produce our own narrative about this. 00:18:32.585 --> 00:18:40.705 But very quickly, I just felt like really to do justice to this, we need to be talking to the people out in the community who experienced it. 00:18:41.155 --> 00:18:43.615 And not only that, it's a great opportunity, right? 00:18:43.675 --> 00:18:47.915 There's a lot of synergy there when you can collaborate with people outside your institution. 00:18:48.695 --> 00:18:52.925 So part of the community engagement was that I interviewed thirty people. 00:18:53.820 --> 00:18:57.669 Most of whom had no direct connection to the university. 00:18:57.679 --> 00:19:06.259 These were people in Santa Cruz and in Watsonville, a number of whom were on city council or somehow involved in the emergency response. 00:19:06.999 --> 00:19:11.199 And so just talking with people out in the community was a really great experience. 00:19:11.199 --> 00:19:15.750 But then we also ended up partnering with two community institutions. 00:19:15.760 --> 00:19:27.415 One was Santa Cruz public libraries who were doing their own oral history project around the earthquake at the same time and a place called the Santa Cruz Museum of Art and History. 00:19:28.270 --> 00:19:35.840 Or the MAH, as they call it, who had a, an exhibit, uh, commemorating the earthquake again for the thirtieth anniversary. 00:19:35.840 --> 00:19:41.310 So I was very much of the mindset of how can we like collaborate and bring all this work together. 00:19:41.310 --> 00:19:43.609 So we produced a bunch of, well, ten episodes. 00:19:43.609 --> 00:19:50.900 And then the last two episodes were one produced by the folks at Santa Cruz public libraries drawing on their own oral histories that they were doing. 00:19:50.910 --> 00:19:59.570 And then the other produced by the MAH and they interviewed some people who were kind of the focal point of the exhibit. 00:19:59.690 --> 00:20:16.310 It was just, I think honestly, one of the most fulfilling, rewarding parts of this were all the connections that were made, including with another person that I was able to collaborate with was Nikki Silva, who's one half of the Kitchen Sisters, the kind of OG radio producer duo. 00:20:17.050 --> 00:20:26.294 And she happens to be a UCSC alum and lives nearby, but she did some recording on the street style in the week after the earthquake. 00:20:26.454 --> 00:20:26.975 Oh, wow. 00:20:27.074 --> 00:20:33.484 And she had these tapes and she was like, I've never used them and I feel so guilty that I've never used them for anything. 00:20:33.525 --> 00:20:37.714 I would love it if you could find a way to, you know, incorporate it into your project. 00:20:37.715 --> 00:20:39.245 And I was like, yes, please. 00:20:39.445 --> 00:20:43.915 So, connecting with Nikki also was a great part of this project. 00:20:44.335 --> 00:20:45.554 But yeah, those connections. 00:20:45.555 --> 00:21:03.840 In fact, honestly, zooming out even just from this project, one of my favorite things about the work of podcasting is talking to people who I might never otherwise, you know, our roads might have not have crossed or I would not have had an excuse to reach out to them and say, Hey, could you spend half an hour with me talking about whatever. 00:21:04.140 --> 00:21:19.399 I can't agree with you more on that, just this podcast, Continuing Studies, for Jen and I, the people that, we're almost at two years now, and the people that we have met and connected with, and some of them continue to, um, converse with has been tremendous. 00:21:19.400 --> 00:21:35.650 And it's amazing the people that we find just like in this niche of academic university podcasts, which you think is so narrow and tiny, but it's just like every single week we find more people doing cool things. 00:21:35.700 --> 00:21:42.380 And I just really love you explaining to us about the Stories from the Epicenter. 00:21:42.400 --> 00:22:01.090 And I think that from a university academic scholarly perspective, it is a super interesting way to think about things, projects and research and ways that students can listen to and tap into that the community involvement and everything, is just tremendous. 00:22:01.090 --> 00:22:02.699 It's quite inspiring actually, I think. 00:22:02.909 --> 00:22:07.830 So let's jump to your second main podcast gig in quotes. 00:22:07.839 --> 00:22:15.120 And that's the, as I mentioned earlier, that History in Focus podcast, and that's from the American Historical Review. 00:22:15.649 --> 00:22:16.819 Tell us a little bit about that. 00:22:17.589 --> 00:22:17.819 Yeah. 00:22:17.999 --> 00:22:36.470 So History in Focus is, let's see, we're in our third season and it is a monthly podcast that explores and tries to bring to life and make more accessible the scholarship that is coming out in the AHR, the American Historical Review. 00:22:36.750 --> 00:22:48.050 So it's essentially a work of engaging academic research and trying to make it more accessible sometimes in the form just of a conversation, which is totally cool. 00:22:48.130 --> 00:22:58.580 And then other times with particular kinds of pieces, we will go a little more narrative style and do some sound design and make something that's a little more like immersive from that kind of perspective. 00:22:59.060 --> 00:23:11.220 I often say like if you listen to something like the New Yorker Radio Hour or something, which I'm not comparing ourselves to, but it's a similar concept in that our fuel for our content is the material that's coming out in the AHR. 00:23:11.689 --> 00:23:36.164 Not that we can cover it in anything close to a comprehensive way, but yeah, we take some article usually, and the AHR is increasingly publishing really interesting, innovative, non traditional kinds of articles exploring how history is being done in kind of non traditional ways or how history is done outside of the kind of traditional academic, you know, the ivory towers of the university. 00:23:36.164 --> 00:23:40.024 So there's a lot of really interesting material for us to engage with. 00:23:40.074 --> 00:23:48.315 And I've had lots of cool cross institutional collaboration doing that kind of work with other producers who have cycled on and off to help me with it. 00:23:49.295 --> 00:23:53.165 How is this podcast turned into an important channel? 00:23:53.205 --> 00:23:56.425 I feel like it's an important channel for the journal now. 00:23:56.885 --> 00:24:04.415 Tell me a little bit about it, or maybe there's no story there, but how it's grown into a key, like, obviously it's a printed journal, correct? 00:24:04.484 --> 00:24:04.834 Yeah, yeah. 00:24:05.045 --> 00:24:09.175 A large website, digital presence as most journals do. 00:24:09.585 --> 00:24:13.655 Then how does the podcast play into that as another channel for the journal? 00:24:14.419 --> 00:24:15.219 Yeah, yeah. 00:24:15.270 --> 00:24:22.750 I think part of it is just giving people another avenue into the content of the journal. 00:24:22.789 --> 00:24:26.810 We're not under any assumption that people are reading every issue cover to cover. 00:24:26.990 --> 00:24:32.529 The more ways that we can give people into the material that the journal's publishing, the better. 00:24:32.690 --> 00:24:46.360 So that's one element of it, but I think the more interesting part of it is what I just referenced, that the journal is evolving toward a more capacious, understanding of historical work and historical scholarship. 00:24:46.480 --> 00:24:54.340 And the podcast in some ways is able to capture some of that in a way that the print version alone can't. 00:24:54.340 --> 00:25:01.004 I think the podcast lets you see the, the work of these historians in a more human light. 00:25:01.604 --> 00:25:07.504 You see the people, you see their own passions and struggles and the challenges and you hear it, right? 00:25:07.504 --> 00:25:10.324 You hear the emotion in their voice or the excitement in their voice. 00:25:10.774 --> 00:25:16.634 And then in the podcast, we're able to like bring in other kinds of media material. 00:25:16.634 --> 00:25:23.605 Obviously it's an audio medium, but we're able to bring in archival audio related to their work or what they're writing about. 00:25:24.145 --> 00:25:28.984 We're able to engage different kinds of nontraditional articles in different ways. 00:25:29.155 --> 00:25:35.545 There are times, and I'm working on one for release, just this coming March of 2025. 00:25:35.545 --> 00:25:40.724 It'll be out, a piece where the writer just is reading their piece in its entirety. 00:25:40.724 --> 00:25:47.855 And it's a very personal reflection on a collaborator that they worked with who passed away during the COVID pandemic. 00:25:48.235 --> 00:25:55.915 And so that's just an example of like one of the kind of non traditional articles that the AHR is publishing more and more of. 00:25:55.945 --> 00:26:01.254 And so we're going to like sound design this with this scholar reading their material. 00:26:01.254 --> 00:26:05.715 And it's pretty emotionally heavy as you might imagine with that topic. 00:26:05.715 --> 00:26:16.615 But to kind of circle back to your general question, I think those are the kinds of opportunities that the podcast can capitalize on that print alone maybe can't do quite in the same way. 00:26:17.070 --> 00:26:36.599 Well, I find it to be more authentic and not only that, you can kind of understand it better because I think sometimes with just text and written text and even we deal with it in our daily lives, either it be social media or text, it can be misinterpreted because we all have our own thoughts when we read. 00:26:36.820 --> 00:26:41.990 So when you're hearing it from the source, there's not that much misinterpretation. 00:26:42.189 --> 00:26:44.290 You're actually seeing that person's point of view. 00:26:44.370 --> 00:26:44.850 Totally. 00:26:44.899 --> 00:26:45.149 Yeah. 00:26:45.149 --> 00:26:58.005 Going back to what I said earlier, I think helps you to not just engage intellectually, but on some kind of deeper level to really care about what this person is exploring and to see a bit behind the scenes, right? 00:26:58.005 --> 00:27:07.935 I hear people talk about not just the finished product that you see on the page in the journal, but how they got there and the kinds of ups and downs and challenges that they had to overcome 00:27:08.379 --> 00:27:09.999 And allowing us not to make assumptions. 00:27:10.199 --> 00:27:10.429 Right. 00:27:10.620 --> 00:27:24.340 I really like that notion that you're saying of the human side of the historian, their POV, why they got to where they got to or whatever, I think is super interesting, especially for a topic like history. 00:27:24.735 --> 00:27:31.045 You don't have to answer this, but right now there's this negative lens being put on journals. 00:27:31.055 --> 00:27:36.264 It's almost like they've been dragged through the mud and they're really being questioned and challenged. 00:27:36.265 --> 00:27:41.424 And I think that comes to the heart of sort of the scientific challenge right now that we're seeing. 00:27:41.664 --> 00:27:45.865 But like, do you think a podcast is a good answer to that? 00:27:46.145 --> 00:28:10.365 Yeah, I mean, I, I think the podcast can be a way to, uh, humanize the work so that if somebody like is sort of reflexively skeptical of the academic form of the, the journal or the article, and certainly, you know, the field of history and humanities and in general is really taking a lot of attacks and hits and skepticism right now. 00:28:10.435 --> 00:28:15.024 So yeah, there are a lot of challenges for us to deal with and overcome in this moment. 00:28:15.075 --> 00:28:26.685 And I think one answer to this is it's like all hands on deck, whatever kind of things we can use and employ to communicate the importance of these ideas and topics. 00:28:26.905 --> 00:28:29.685 We should use anything, any tool we have to hand. 00:28:29.695 --> 00:28:39.800 But I do think that something about the podcast, it's maybe a way to soften those barriers and soften the skepticism that might be there when you can speak to people directly. 00:28:39.880 --> 00:28:44.760 And say, Hey, you know, I'm a human trying to navigate this stuff just like you. 00:28:44.760 --> 00:28:49.559 And there are hard topics that we have to deal with and hard things that we have to work through. 00:28:50.140 --> 00:28:52.219 I think there's definite potential. 00:28:52.220 --> 00:29:06.174 I think that it's a medium that we're seeing more and more universities lean into and I think is really, is really an interesting way to directly counteract some of that negative rhetoric, which is just seeming to bubbling to the top. 00:29:06.715 --> 00:29:07.594 Yeah, for sure. 00:29:07.644 --> 00:29:17.685 And you can talk about really complex ideas in a more casual tone, you know, like that's possible in a podcast and I love it. 00:29:17.685 --> 00:29:22.305 I love, honestly, sometimes I love to hear an expert stumbling over their words a little bit. 00:29:22.355 --> 00:29:24.545 You know, it's like, yeah, they're just like me. 00:29:25.334 --> 00:29:27.735 Well Daniel, so good to have you join us. 00:29:27.764 --> 00:29:33.845 Really, really appreciate sharing so much about what you're up to and your story and your candor as well, actually, too. 00:29:33.845 --> 00:29:35.575 So thanks so much for joining us today. 00:29:35.825 --> 00:29:36.095 Thanks. 00:29:36.104 --> 00:29:38.214 And I really appreciate the work that you all are doing. 00:29:39.864 --> 00:29:44.335 Jen, wasn't that another great conversation we had with a higher ed podcaster? 00:29:44.794 --> 00:29:47.074 Yeah, it was a great story. 00:29:47.685 --> 00:29:48.544 Haha. 00:29:50.754 --> 00:29:51.885 Sorry, I couldn't resist. 00:29:51.895 --> 00:29:53.525 But just because his name is the best. 00:29:53.535 --> 00:30:10.665 But in all honesty and all seriousness what he is doing by documenting history through audio and having the relatable conversations of hearing people that have actually been there during that time, I really think is like the key to future learning. 00:30:12.015 --> 00:30:12.495 Totally. 00:30:12.935 --> 00:30:19.415 I want to chat with more journal podcasts, podcasts that are sort of coming from journals. 00:30:19.415 --> 00:30:24.405 This was our first one with the journal that he works on, which is the American Historical Review. 00:30:24.615 --> 00:30:28.905 Anyone out there, a podcaster who works on a journal, we'd love to chat with you. 00:30:28.905 --> 00:30:32.295 I think this is a really interesting angle for sure. 00:30:32.305 --> 00:30:35.460 So anyway, Jen, why don't we call it there. 00:30:36.190 --> 00:30:36.860 Call it there. 00:30:37.690 --> 00:30:43.930 Until next time, thank you so much for tuning in to the Continuing Studies podcast, a podcast for higher education podcasters. 00:30:44.010 --> 00:30:47.070 We hope you found this episode informative and inspiring. 00:30:47.090 --> 00:30:54.220 If you enjoyed the show, we encourage you to follow and subscribe to our podcast on your preferred platform so you'll never miss an episode. 00:30:54.480 --> 00:31:03.795 But if you found this episode particularly valuable, please consider sharing it with your friends and colleagues who also might be interested in higher education podcasts. 00:31:03.825 --> 00:31:13.015 We also invite you to join your peers on HigherEdPods.com where you can connect with other podcasters in higher education and learn from others in the field. 00:31:13.195 --> 00:31:15.005 Thank you for being part of our community. 00:31:15.035 --> 00:31:20.415 We look forward to continuing to bring you valuable insights and conversations around higher education podcasts. 00:31:20.415 --> 00:31:22.105 See you in the next episode.