1 00:00:02,040 --> 00:00:02,340 I am. 2 00:00:03,390 --> 00:00:04,920 And this is choosing leadership. 3 00:00:05,340 --> 00:00:09,510 A podcast for high performers, with big dreams at work and life. 4 00:00:10,380 --> 00:00:14,280 This is a podcast for people who know deep inside that there is more. 5 00:00:15,450 --> 00:00:17,369 Have you achieved a great deal of success? 6 00:00:17,759 --> 00:00:21,090 But on the inside, you still feel empty and like an imposter. 7 00:00:22,050 --> 00:00:24,270 Do other people see you as a strong leader? 8 00:00:24,660 --> 00:00:28,650 And you wonder why it still feels so lonely and suffocating. 9 00:00:29,339 --> 00:00:34,289 The aim of this podcast is not to provide you more content, but instead shift 10 00:00:34,289 --> 00:00:35,849 the context under which you operate. 11 00:00:36,359 --> 00:00:40,199 I dare to speak to the tremendous power, which you already have 12 00:00:40,319 --> 00:00:41,609 rather than what you believe. 13 00:00:42,029 --> 00:00:43,769 Are your strengths and limitations. 14 00:00:44,459 --> 00:00:47,489 This podcast is called choosing leadership because that is 15 00:00:47,489 --> 00:00:49,529 what leadership is a choice. 16 00:00:49,876 --> 00:00:52,306 And this is the leadership journey, CDs. 17 00:00:52,936 --> 00:00:56,806 I am interviewing leaders with an interesting story to learn how 18 00:00:56,806 --> 00:00:58,036 they got where they are today. 19 00:00:58,576 --> 00:01:01,396 We all have a lot to learn from each other's stories. 20 00:01:01,936 --> 00:01:02,476 Of Viet. 21 00:01:02,506 --> 00:01:04,096 We started very veer now. 22 00:01:04,486 --> 00:01:06,736 And over successes and struggles on the V. 23 00:01:07,216 --> 00:01:09,406 With this series of interviews, my attempt. 24 00:01:09,886 --> 00:01:13,996 Is to give leaders an opportunity to share their stories and for all of us 25 00:01:14,026 --> 00:01:16,126 to learn from their genders sharing 26 00:01:16,906 --> 00:01:17,296 Dr. 27 00:01:17,296 --> 00:01:20,746 Catherine is an associate research professor at the university 28 00:01:20,746 --> 00:01:24,286 of Maryland and the NASA, how west Africa program director. 29 00:01:24,676 --> 00:01:29,596 He was recently honored with the highest civilian award of Uganda by president 30 00:01:29,596 --> 00:01:34,636 your very Mussolini for her dedication to improving food security in Africa, 31 00:01:35,056 --> 00:01:40,556 she works with the governments of Kenya, Rwanda, Tanzania, Uganda, and Molly among. 32 00:01:41,641 --> 00:01:47,431 Uh, work is funded by institutions like NASA USTA listener fund Swiss re 33 00:01:47,431 --> 00:01:53,221 foundation, the bill and Melinda gates foundation, and also USAID Katherine 34 00:01:53,221 --> 00:01:58,381 shares how she had very humble beginnings growing up, just outside Kampala and 35 00:01:58,381 --> 00:02:03,811 Uganda, and how she learned so much from her parents were very resourceful. 36 00:02:03,931 --> 00:02:06,601 Despite having very little resources. 37 00:02:07,441 --> 00:02:10,501 She talks about her openness to learn and build new things. 38 00:02:11,476 --> 00:02:14,926 And also shares the value of speaking in a language. 39 00:02:15,046 --> 00:02:16,396 Your audience understands. 40 00:02:17,356 --> 00:02:22,036 We also discussed how acknowledging that I do not know is often 41 00:02:22,096 --> 00:02:24,046 what allows growth to happen. 42 00:02:26,134 --> 00:02:26,854 Hello, Catherine. 43 00:02:27,224 --> 00:02:28,064 Welcome to the show. 44 00:02:28,094 --> 00:02:29,984 And it's my pleasure to have you here. 45 00:02:30,434 --> 00:02:32,474 To begin with for our listeners. 46 00:02:32,864 --> 00:02:36,854 Can you start by sharing a little bit about how you got where you are today? 47 00:02:37,424 --> 00:02:41,084 And if there are any key events from your life that you would like to highlight 48 00:02:41,144 --> 00:02:43,384 that I shaped you as a person and as. 49 00:02:44,284 --> 00:02:48,776 My journey is not a one that is very straightforward. 50 00:02:48,832 --> 00:02:54,532 I did not stop with some and goal or objective. 51 00:02:54,562 --> 00:02:59,169 I had a very simple childhood, actually had a photograph with my 52 00:02:59,169 --> 00:03:03,579 sisters when we were younger and with the photograph, we were so happy 53 00:03:03,639 --> 00:03:11,275 and So I grew up in, in Uganda and in Kampala, in a physical mechanism 54 00:03:11,415 --> 00:03:13,485 slightly right outside the capital. 55 00:03:13,515 --> 00:03:20,271 And it's in Kampala, but it's off the main city and I was growing up, I 56 00:03:20,271 --> 00:03:25,275 guess one of the most defining things is that we played badminton a lot. 57 00:03:25,342 --> 00:03:31,117 When I was in high school most of my, most of the students at school would think of 58 00:03:31,117 --> 00:03:32,617 badminton when they would think of me. 59 00:03:32,617 --> 00:03:37,620 So it should be called Kathy badminton in the timeframe we did really well. 60 00:03:37,650 --> 00:03:39,389 And you had a lot of trophies. 61 00:03:40,289 --> 00:03:45,567 It's one of those defining things, because it kept me busy having that, 62 00:03:45,617 --> 00:03:47,987 had a lot of opportunities growing up. 63 00:03:48,017 --> 00:03:50,968 And so at a very simple childhood, and. 64 00:03:52,153 --> 00:03:58,993 When I finished my high school, I had hoped to do something along those 65 00:03:58,993 --> 00:04:01,344 lines sports and hope to do this. 66 00:04:01,344 --> 00:04:03,804 There's a program called sports science that had started. 67 00:04:03,804 --> 00:04:07,519 And I wanted to do that because I really enjoyed badminton. 68 00:04:07,549 --> 00:04:12,912 I'd done a lot of things along sports I taught myself how to teach aerobics. 69 00:04:13,552 --> 00:04:16,648 I was a a games prefect when I was in high school. 70 00:04:17,783 --> 00:04:25,069 And for some reason that I can't really pinpoint, , it kept me together and I 71 00:04:25,069 --> 00:04:29,389 liked doing it also kept me and my sisters really close because we all played it. 72 00:04:30,869 --> 00:04:32,579 And there is looked up to my oldest sister. 73 00:04:32,579 --> 00:04:37,256 Her name is Annette, and she was Uganda's number one at the time. 74 00:04:37,316 --> 00:04:40,796 And that was playing juniors and it did very well as well. 75 00:04:41,636 --> 00:04:46,213 And however in Uganda, when you finish high school you need to have 76 00:04:46,213 --> 00:04:50,356 a certain grade, a certain number of points, there's that kind of a 77 00:04:50,356 --> 00:04:52,606 grading system to qualify, to get a. 78 00:04:52,670 --> 00:04:55,070 Sponsorship, which is the only way I would have been able to 79 00:04:55,070 --> 00:04:57,620 do to go to, to, to university. 80 00:04:57,620 --> 00:05:03,230 And so I didn't do my first choice was that support science program. 81 00:05:03,230 --> 00:05:04,977 But it was so competitive. 82 00:05:04,977 --> 00:05:09,014 I didn't get the right number of points to do it, through the 83 00:05:09,014 --> 00:05:10,334 government scholarship program. 84 00:05:10,934 --> 00:05:14,474 And so I found out later that there was this environmental science program that 85 00:05:14,474 --> 00:05:16,985 just hope bend and I started into the. 86 00:05:16,985 --> 00:05:20,992 I applied to it and I got in, so I was one of the first people to study that program. 87 00:05:21,832 --> 00:05:26,115 And I guess the other thing is defining is that I always loved math. 88 00:05:26,145 --> 00:05:29,823 I did did pretty well at math and I loved geography. 89 00:05:29,895 --> 00:05:33,345 And so those two things coming together allow me to be able to do 90 00:05:33,345 --> 00:05:34,655 this environment science program. 91 00:05:35,315 --> 00:05:37,262 And that's how I took the path into. 92 00:05:38,747 --> 00:05:40,067 Environmental science. 93 00:05:40,113 --> 00:05:42,391 I really enjoyed field work. 94 00:05:42,501 --> 00:05:45,631 I started my first opportunity to go out in the field. 95 00:05:45,631 --> 00:05:46,201 I took it. 96 00:05:46,261 --> 00:05:48,361 I actually created it for myself. 97 00:05:48,811 --> 00:05:51,211 I wanted to do something with mapping. 98 00:05:51,301 --> 00:05:52,711 I've just been a. 99 00:05:54,106 --> 00:05:56,866 Introduced to geographic information systems. 100 00:05:56,866 --> 00:06:02,236 And of course that I took in my undergrad and I wanted to actually make my own maps. 101 00:06:02,236 --> 00:06:06,256 So I went out of my way to do an internship with a Uganda 102 00:06:06,256 --> 00:06:10,156 wildlife authority to get field experience, collecting data, 103 00:06:10,186 --> 00:06:12,151 putting it together, visualizing it. 104 00:06:12,151 --> 00:06:13,799 It seems like something tangible. 105 00:06:13,799 --> 00:06:15,629 So I like I'm a person like that. 106 00:06:15,629 --> 00:06:16,469 Like I like being. 107 00:06:17,059 --> 00:06:22,686 Because I get a product and yen, for example and sewing needing because 108 00:06:22,686 --> 00:06:23,706 in the year and a half something. 109 00:06:24,066 --> 00:06:29,847 And so I think that process is the same thing that I liked and I liked computers. 110 00:06:29,877 --> 00:06:33,657 I liked computers so much that I bought my first computer with what 111 00:06:33,657 --> 00:06:35,877 would have been my housing stipend. 112 00:06:36,507 --> 00:06:39,957 I made a deal with my mom that I'd like to use that money to buy a computer. 113 00:06:39,957 --> 00:06:42,297 If she gives me money to go to school. 114 00:06:42,327 --> 00:06:43,317 Cause I was commuting. 115 00:06:43,947 --> 00:06:50,564 And those things, kind of those things coming together made me, I didn't play so 116 00:06:50,564 --> 00:06:53,594 much badminton when I started university. 117 00:06:53,594 --> 00:06:56,774 I actually completely, almost stopped playing it competitively 118 00:06:56,774 --> 00:07:02,558 because I realized that in my own perception that I would, there 119 00:07:02,568 --> 00:07:04,521 not so many opportunities for me. 120 00:07:04,532 --> 00:07:07,212 And I wouldn't be able to overcome some of. 121 00:07:07,212 --> 00:07:09,625 The challenges that I think my family was facing. 122 00:07:09,625 --> 00:07:14,035 Cause I wouldn't be able to get a scholarship to pay for me to continue 123 00:07:14,035 --> 00:07:18,968 school or to be able to support or help out at home because I used 124 00:07:18,968 --> 00:07:20,378 to work at my mom's restaurant. 125 00:07:20,378 --> 00:07:25,988 So S I decided to just focus on my environment and science. 126 00:07:27,038 --> 00:07:32,499 And then my sister moved to New York when I was finishing my undergrad. 127 00:07:33,909 --> 00:07:39,300 I'm so excited about this course that I wanted to do more, like it's like almost 128 00:07:39,300 --> 00:07:42,023 like opening up, you think when you're in, I guess when you're in high street 129 00:07:42,023 --> 00:07:47,496 for the learning a lot, but then once you go to university and start to see how. 130 00:07:48,411 --> 00:07:52,161 Broader the world is, cause I didn't have access to books 131 00:07:52,191 --> 00:07:53,601 and stuff like that growing up. 132 00:07:53,647 --> 00:07:58,063 So like my view or perception of the world was, it was very limited. 133 00:07:58,093 --> 00:08:01,363 And so going to university and finding out all these other things you can 134 00:08:01,363 --> 00:08:06,386 study made me think that I need you to do more of it, but I also wanted you 135 00:08:06,386 --> 00:08:10,816 to do it somewhere else where I thought maybe there'd be better opportunity in. 136 00:08:12,126 --> 00:08:16,086 I applied and went to ended up going to the Johns Hopkins university 137 00:08:16,086 --> 00:08:17,856 for my masters in Baltimore. 138 00:08:18,216 --> 00:08:19,696 This was really exciting. 139 00:08:19,696 --> 00:08:23,072 My sister is excited because, getting into the program 140 00:08:23,112 --> 00:08:24,712 university, it was just fantastic. 141 00:08:25,342 --> 00:08:29,601 But when I got there I guess another defining moment is just the amount. 142 00:08:30,141 --> 00:08:33,321 If you think about it, resources that I had access to by just 143 00:08:33,321 --> 00:08:37,431 being at the university was so defining in a sense that. 144 00:08:37,904 --> 00:08:41,294 I couldn't read all the books that were available if it, if I was so 145 00:08:41,294 --> 00:08:45,790 interested, because there were so many having access to computers and 146 00:08:45,790 --> 00:08:51,121 internet and it just, it's like the ever expanding universe in that sense. 147 00:08:51,176 --> 00:08:55,582 Just like with discovering more and more stars and stuff like that, it's there's 148 00:08:55,582 --> 00:08:57,805 more after this is more, there's more. 149 00:08:58,850 --> 00:08:59,120 Yeah. 150 00:08:59,600 --> 00:09:01,850 That's how I guess I am. 151 00:09:01,910 --> 00:09:02,750 And that sounds, yeah. 152 00:09:03,320 --> 00:09:03,560 Yeah. 153 00:09:03,590 --> 00:09:07,870 So tell me a little bit more about growing up in Uganda, you, you shared very briefly 154 00:09:07,870 --> 00:09:10,390 that it was limited or it was restricted. 155 00:09:10,420 --> 00:09:12,200 Tell me a little bit more about that. 156 00:09:12,222 --> 00:09:19,112 So my dad is a mechanic a car mechanic and my mom had a small shop, a small business. 157 00:09:19,121 --> 00:09:26,739 And so we had very little, like less pictures of us growing up, no shoes, 158 00:09:26,856 --> 00:09:30,674 like sometimes how When people take pictures of, or when people try to 159 00:09:30,674 --> 00:09:36,601 portray people in Africa from a long time ago as if it's, same as now. 160 00:09:36,601 --> 00:09:38,572 So it's, was it that much difference? 161 00:09:38,628 --> 00:09:41,064 It was in the city, but we lived in a. 162 00:09:41,130 --> 00:09:47,657 Mud house and I wanted to, my primary school does not exist anymore. 163 00:09:47,674 --> 00:09:50,364 It was in a very small, it's a place called Katwe. 164 00:09:50,404 --> 00:09:53,064 There's a market there and it's a slum. 165 00:09:53,099 --> 00:09:54,960 And yeah, it was very simple. 166 00:09:54,967 --> 00:09:57,799 I, to watch television I'd have to go to the neighbors. 167 00:09:57,812 --> 00:10:02,842 I walked to school from when I was three, at least six or seven kilometers from 168 00:10:02,842 --> 00:10:05,272 home where I went to like kindergarten. 169 00:10:05,368 --> 00:10:09,019 And yeah, so it was like that. 170 00:10:09,019 --> 00:10:13,971 So I think sometimes people think that maybe I had a very privileged upbringing, 171 00:10:14,001 --> 00:10:17,931 but I didn't, I, right now I feel like I'm in a very privileged position. 172 00:10:18,004 --> 00:10:20,464 But growing up, I wasn't at all. 173 00:10:21,044 --> 00:10:21,464 Yeah. 174 00:10:21,674 --> 00:10:22,184 Thank you. 175 00:10:22,214 --> 00:10:23,324 Thank you for sharing that. 176 00:10:23,924 --> 00:10:26,054 So I want to connect the dots here, right? 177 00:10:26,054 --> 00:10:27,134 How do you come from. 178 00:10:27,909 --> 00:10:32,439 And growing up like that, like the way you described to being very ambitious. 179 00:10:32,439 --> 00:10:35,375 And also you mentioned that when you started working, you created where 180 00:10:35,375 --> 00:10:37,235 you like the program and everything. 181 00:10:37,265 --> 00:10:43,415 So where did that sense of courage or groundedness or leadership came from? 182 00:10:43,475 --> 00:10:47,385 What was driving that passion from where you started to where you are now? 183 00:10:47,775 --> 00:10:51,525 It is in my nature maybe want to build on things. 184 00:10:51,575 --> 00:10:52,535 When I was five. 185 00:10:52,535 --> 00:10:54,755 I didn't think I was going to be a rocket scientist. 186 00:10:54,785 --> 00:10:58,865 I didn't even know what a rocket scientist or I didn't say I wanted to 187 00:10:58,865 --> 00:11:03,856 be a doctor or I didn't have that kind of mind frame, but what I had was what 188 00:11:03,856 --> 00:11:05,866 I had with me, I would make something. 189 00:11:05,909 --> 00:11:11,302 So like with what I have, I tried to do something with and and that, because of 190 00:11:11,302 --> 00:11:16,136 that, I discovered more and more which I think opened up more and more doors. 191 00:11:16,256 --> 00:11:17,486 So with my environment of. 192 00:11:18,846 --> 00:11:23,018 And I discovered geographic information systems and so brought, 193 00:11:23,018 --> 00:11:24,848 like I liked fixing things. 194 00:11:24,919 --> 00:11:28,273 would want to have I bought a computer, which was dead, had 195 00:11:28,693 --> 00:11:32,839 making that computer work, buying additional drives and stuff like that. 196 00:11:32,839 --> 00:11:36,809 So that taught me about IT when I was doing my undergrad, I took an, 197 00:11:36,809 --> 00:11:40,353 it course in the evening, which opened up, it's there's this whole 198 00:11:40,353 --> 00:11:44,616 other world of it, and then there's geographic information systems like 199 00:11:44,645 --> 00:11:46,715 I want to understand more about that. 200 00:11:47,075 --> 00:11:48,527 I got into a master's program. 201 00:11:48,552 --> 00:11:51,702 When I got into master's program, I also wanted to really do something 202 00:11:51,702 --> 00:11:55,013 that would allow me to work like working in an environment of field. 203 00:11:55,013 --> 00:11:56,283 And I want to do it back in. 204 00:11:56,320 --> 00:11:57,280 Going back home. 205 00:11:57,730 --> 00:12:02,350 And so once I discovered this whole other realm of remote sensing and 206 00:12:02,350 --> 00:12:06,993 satellite data and having access to it, I wanted to know more, then you 207 00:12:06,993 --> 00:12:09,049 could apply it to forest monitoring. 208 00:12:09,067 --> 00:12:12,237 Now I work more with crop monitoring, but I actually started 209 00:12:12,237 --> 00:12:16,575 by doing some for GPS mapping of encroachment into a forest reserve. 210 00:12:16,575 --> 00:12:19,423 So It's like when you're tipping away at something you discover more and 211 00:12:19,423 --> 00:12:24,635 more under, it is like my operating frame, like right now I work and 212 00:12:24,635 --> 00:12:29,045 interact with like incredibly smart people who have opened up my world 213 00:12:29,075 --> 00:12:31,978 to deep learning and stuff like that. 214 00:12:31,978 --> 00:12:35,578 So it's, I think just being open to learn and not being afraid of. 215 00:12:36,898 --> 00:12:37,378 Yes. 216 00:12:37,508 --> 00:12:39,929 . I think what I'm listening to is resourcefulness. 217 00:12:39,929 --> 00:12:43,913 So even with less resources, you have found a way to continuously 218 00:12:43,913 --> 00:12:47,603 build on things or fix the problems or the challenges that 219 00:12:47,603 --> 00:12:48,653 you have found yourselves in. 220 00:12:49,538 --> 00:12:49,778 Yeah. 221 00:12:49,778 --> 00:12:53,888 It's like working a, see if you've seen these amazing videos of little 222 00:12:53,888 --> 00:12:56,168 kids making something out of nothing. 223 00:12:56,168 --> 00:12:57,278 So I've liked that. 224 00:12:57,345 --> 00:13:00,749 And that sense, like you can, I don't know, I've gotten, 225 00:13:01,129 --> 00:13:02,429 I've done so many things. 226 00:13:02,429 --> 00:13:05,519 I've worked at a gym as an instructor. 227 00:13:05,519 --> 00:13:09,659 When I was 17, I applied for the job through a radio commercial. 228 00:13:09,745 --> 00:13:13,525 Yeah, I've worked for an NGO, a women's organization help 229 00:13:13,525 --> 00:13:15,715 organizing like the workshops. 230 00:13:15,715 --> 00:13:18,589 So all of those things, when you pulled them together, it explains you know 231 00:13:18,589 --> 00:13:21,509 why so many things come together. 232 00:13:21,557 --> 00:13:23,897 Now I worked at a movie studio. 233 00:13:24,137 --> 00:13:28,974 I've taught myself how to edit images and video and, it's just 234 00:13:28,974 --> 00:13:35,316 being open and being, having that, mindset of if a windows opened right. 235 00:13:35,991 --> 00:13:40,191 You can look in and then see how far you can look at. 236 00:13:40,281 --> 00:13:43,480 And if it's not, if it doesn't fit or if it's not so good, but others that 237 00:13:43,480 --> 00:13:45,932 are good at it, just being also open to. 238 00:13:46,382 --> 00:13:49,931 To working with, with people actually, because you can 239 00:13:49,931 --> 00:13:52,031 never, you can't do everything. 240 00:13:52,031 --> 00:13:55,228 And in the world we live in, that's even more and more connected. 241 00:13:55,228 --> 00:13:58,408 You find that there's some people who can do something so quickly 242 00:13:58,408 --> 00:13:59,758 and it's better that they do it. 243 00:14:00,358 --> 00:14:03,332 And that makes it makes it a better fit and a better outcome. 244 00:14:03,622 --> 00:14:05,832 Because of , creating that opportunity for others. 245 00:14:06,342 --> 00:14:06,672 Yeah. 246 00:14:07,152 --> 00:14:07,392 Yeah. 247 00:14:07,452 --> 00:14:11,712 And all of these diverse backgrounds and experiences, how do they 248 00:14:11,712 --> 00:14:13,794 play out today in your role? 249 00:14:13,794 --> 00:14:17,427 When you're talking to people of very different backgrounds, you're 250 00:14:17,427 --> 00:14:21,015 talking to governments, but I'm sure you're talking to scientists. 251 00:14:21,015 --> 00:14:24,046 You're talking to people from from a very privileged background as well. 252 00:14:24,046 --> 00:14:24,546 So how do you. 253 00:14:24,613 --> 00:14:28,432 How does all of this tie up together to allow you to do the 254 00:14:28,492 --> 00:14:29,752 kind of work that you do today? 255 00:14:30,892 --> 00:14:33,532 I think it helps to be grounded. 256 00:14:33,532 --> 00:14:40,315 I think I like to communicate . As effectively as possible where I'm 257 00:14:40,645 --> 00:14:45,172 trying to sound like a very good scientist when I'm talking to a 258 00:14:45,172 --> 00:14:47,002 farmer is completely pointless. 259 00:14:47,005 --> 00:14:51,093 And trying to communicate in the simplest possible terms, depending 260 00:14:51,093 --> 00:14:55,173 on the situation that you're in, but then also when you, when I ran 261 00:14:55,173 --> 00:14:57,123 into situations where obviously. 262 00:14:57,611 --> 00:15:01,845 I'm not an expert, there they're whole other levels of understanding 263 00:15:01,965 --> 00:15:07,507 and descriptions of things, remaining grounded and communicating within my 264 00:15:07,507 --> 00:15:12,007 realm of understanding, I think is important where I don't say things 265 00:15:12,007 --> 00:15:13,477 that I don't know what they mean. 266 00:15:13,591 --> 00:15:16,231 One of the things that I think I learned during my PhD, and I 267 00:15:16,231 --> 00:15:19,021 remember this very well, it was a meeting with my PhD advisor. 268 00:15:19,051 --> 00:15:20,781 He said, it's okay to say you don't know. 269 00:15:20,781 --> 00:15:20,951 And. 270 00:15:20,951 --> 00:15:23,353 I always feel empowered by that. 271 00:15:23,353 --> 00:15:28,735 Because it also allows you to know that you do not know something, you can 272 00:15:28,735 --> 00:15:32,441 learn about it, but accepting that you don't and somebody else does, I think is 273 00:15:32,471 --> 00:15:38,582 incredibly important because it allows you to create space for you to Grow 274 00:15:39,096 --> 00:15:41,546 emotionally, physically, mentally as well. 275 00:15:41,546 --> 00:15:45,042 So I that's like the thing I always go back to. 276 00:15:45,096 --> 00:15:50,806 But then things that I know and I know in a very complex way it helps to. 277 00:15:51,300 --> 00:15:55,830 Tone it down and communicate in what it is you're looking at, rather 278 00:15:55,830 --> 00:15:58,950 than sometimes talking about the complex and the CS or the different 279 00:15:58,950 --> 00:16:01,020 things that go into data analysis. 280 00:16:01,570 --> 00:16:06,573 It could be as simple as saying in this particular area, a flood happens. 281 00:16:06,573 --> 00:16:10,743 So the crops of poor, rather than me talking about, or the different indices 282 00:16:10,743 --> 00:16:14,865 that brought us to that end point, which, people lose interest when they 283 00:16:14,865 --> 00:16:17,085 can't follow 90% of what you're saying. 284 00:16:17,085 --> 00:16:19,125 So I tried to do that. 285 00:16:19,185 --> 00:16:19,425 Yeah. 286 00:16:20,685 --> 00:16:20,955 Yeah. 287 00:16:20,955 --> 00:16:24,105 So what you're shared is very powerful on two levels. 288 00:16:24,795 --> 00:16:28,735 One is acknowledgement that you cannot know everything and we 289 00:16:28,745 --> 00:16:32,105 talked about learning, but I think this is a crucial connection. 290 00:16:32,138 --> 00:16:35,738 From acknowledging that you do not know because that creates a space for learning. 291 00:16:36,308 --> 00:16:39,548 And also the second thing that you mentioned about the letting 292 00:16:39,548 --> 00:16:43,118 your communication in the simplest way possible, depending 293 00:16:43,118 --> 00:16:44,378 on whom you're talking to. 294 00:16:44,858 --> 00:16:47,588 I think that's very practical, but that's something which 295 00:16:47,918 --> 00:16:49,478 I see people struggle with. 296 00:16:49,746 --> 00:16:52,206 Unless they are faced with a few challenges, a few 297 00:16:52,206 --> 00:16:53,526 difficulties in doing that. 298 00:16:54,006 --> 00:16:55,086 So thank you for sharing that. 299 00:16:55,086 --> 00:16:57,846 I think you mentioned it as a matter of fact, but these 300 00:16:57,846 --> 00:17:00,526 are not very trivial things. 301 00:17:00,546 --> 00:17:01,896 These are very important skills. 302 00:17:01,896 --> 00:17:03,996 So I wanted to acknowledge you on that. 303 00:17:04,063 --> 00:17:09,033 So given the kind of work that you do today, and given that you have to wear 304 00:17:09,083 --> 00:17:13,253 via multiple hats, depending on whom you are talking to, what is it that 305 00:17:13,253 --> 00:17:15,173 people misunderstand about you then. 306 00:17:15,260 --> 00:17:20,657 The term imposter syndrome, my own personal reflection of myself where 307 00:17:20,657 --> 00:17:22,997 I think that maybe people don't. 308 00:17:23,364 --> 00:17:25,104 Because I over simplify things. 309 00:17:25,104 --> 00:17:31,087 So maybe I don't sound technical enough or I don't sound scientific enough? 310 00:17:31,817 --> 00:17:33,862 Like balancing these. 311 00:17:34,972 --> 00:17:39,592 Because of my desire to try and communicate as much as possible. 312 00:17:39,632 --> 00:17:45,892 Sometimes I think that maybe from a more technical or scientific or academic realm, 313 00:17:45,982 --> 00:17:52,132 I am not academic enough, but then I'm not a politician or a policy person. 314 00:17:52,132 --> 00:17:53,885 So I'm not a policy person. 315 00:17:53,916 --> 00:17:57,024 So I'm like I learned this word recent of the boundary person. 316 00:17:57,113 --> 00:18:00,437 Who can go either way, but I'm not, depending on who is 317 00:18:00,437 --> 00:18:05,133 perceiving me I am not, like I don't fall in that one, category. 318 00:18:05,157 --> 00:18:08,570 But I think the reason why, might be a misunderstanding or my own. 319 00:18:09,605 --> 00:18:15,795 Poor reflection of myself is that maybe this is my superpower, that the power 320 00:18:15,885 --> 00:18:23,025 to be within that space and not feel completely uncomfortable because I 321 00:18:23,025 --> 00:18:28,671 understand if you found me when I'm in the field, you would not even suspect because 322 00:18:28,671 --> 00:18:30,831 I'm just, unless you knew me from before. 323 00:18:30,946 --> 00:18:31,486 So it's. 324 00:18:32,001 --> 00:18:37,794 Yeah, I would say that maybe being a boundary person can be problematic, yeah. 325 00:18:38,294 --> 00:18:38,594 Yeah. 326 00:18:38,744 --> 00:18:43,415 And I'm glad that you said that this could be a superpower because the 327 00:18:43,425 --> 00:18:46,725 more I've worked with leaders who are playing big and the more I realized 328 00:18:46,725 --> 00:18:50,227 that imposter syndrome basically stays there, like it gets stronger. 329 00:18:50,287 --> 00:18:54,397 And in fact, from a leadership point of view, it's a good sign because then 330 00:18:54,397 --> 00:18:58,237 that means that you're challenging your growth and you're going further. 331 00:18:58,237 --> 00:19:01,667 You're going into new areas and you're not getting comfortable. 332 00:19:01,692 --> 00:19:03,012 And at the same time not making it. 333 00:19:03,867 --> 00:19:05,955 Make it a weakness as cause as you yourself said. 334 00:19:05,955 --> 00:19:09,254 Not being a boundary person also allows you to see into different 335 00:19:09,254 --> 00:19:11,514 windows if avid used that analogy. 336 00:19:11,514 --> 00:19:16,426 And that allows you to take whatever that you're trying to do forward rather 337 00:19:16,426 --> 00:19:18,706 than getting stuck in this is who I am. 338 00:19:18,796 --> 00:19:19,726 This is why I'm not. 339 00:19:20,626 --> 00:19:21,148 Yeah, yeah. 340 00:19:21,198 --> 00:19:22,078 Yeah, absolutely. 341 00:19:22,078 --> 00:19:23,832 I think it requires also being. 342 00:19:24,762 --> 00:19:26,483 Open to communicate. 343 00:19:26,483 --> 00:19:29,969 In the past, for me, in my case, in the past couple of months or 344 00:19:29,969 --> 00:19:34,583 years, I've been invited to talk at so many different Events. 345 00:19:34,733 --> 00:19:39,593 And the challenge with this is because of my desire and need to communicate. 346 00:19:39,893 --> 00:19:41,723 I can't recycle anything. 347 00:19:42,143 --> 00:19:46,768 I could recycle, description of who I am and the program and what we do. 348 00:19:46,768 --> 00:19:47,578 I can do that. 349 00:19:48,118 --> 00:19:52,708 But in order to bring that message to the context of that particular event, 350 00:19:53,038 --> 00:19:55,018 it has to be molded differently. 351 00:19:55,018 --> 00:19:57,668 And so it creates a lot of work. 352 00:19:57,707 --> 00:20:02,779 But, it's like almost being like a chameleon, to be able to speak 353 00:20:02,899 --> 00:20:07,577 the language of that particular event, what's the most interesting 354 00:20:07,577 --> 00:20:08,957 thing for this community? 355 00:20:08,957 --> 00:20:12,693 So if it's like a And machine learning summer school for students. 356 00:20:13,233 --> 00:20:14,853 What do you, what do I say? 357 00:20:14,853 --> 00:20:16,620 These are the best minds? 358 00:20:16,642 --> 00:20:22,273 The young, fresh exciting, excited who are following this particular 359 00:20:22,273 --> 00:20:25,273 field way better than I am. 360 00:20:25,273 --> 00:20:27,373 Way better than I can ever do. 361 00:20:27,373 --> 00:20:30,283 No matter how long I took, you took trying to prepare for it. 362 00:20:30,283 --> 00:20:34,523 So how do I prepare myself for that event? 363 00:20:34,973 --> 00:20:39,394 And deliver, my best talk in that sense about my work. 364 00:20:39,394 --> 00:20:44,014 So it's very defendant when I get the opportunity to talk to extension needs. 365 00:20:44,078 --> 00:20:47,828 For example, in Tanzania, like it's very different. 366 00:20:47,828 --> 00:20:51,265 And how you get from those two places and talk about the same 367 00:20:51,265 --> 00:20:53,215 thing can be incredibly challenging. 368 00:20:53,215 --> 00:20:58,378 But for me, I think it's incredibly important that I do my, the best possible 369 00:20:58,948 --> 00:21:04,467 and remain approachable that then we can discuss it in that very basic way. 370 00:21:04,514 --> 00:21:08,908 So yeah it's not so simple, but it's definitely worth doing the extra for. 371 00:21:09,358 --> 00:21:09,658 Yeah. 372 00:21:09,748 --> 00:21:15,253 And just to build up on that, what else do you do to manage that pressure and as 373 00:21:15,883 --> 00:21:21,463 expectations from a lot of different kinds of people to be very different kinds of 374 00:21:21,463 --> 00:21:25,483 person when you are, when you're talking to a very different kinds of audiences, 375 00:21:25,483 --> 00:21:26,863 how do you manage that pressure? 376 00:21:28,008 --> 00:21:29,948 I do not find, manage it very well. 377 00:21:29,978 --> 00:21:35,051 I think it takes more away from my, my personal time and 378 00:21:35,051 --> 00:21:37,331 self to be able to do that. 379 00:21:37,334 --> 00:21:40,765 And I'm definitely learning, one of the things is trying to learn to say 380 00:21:40,765 --> 00:21:43,309 no so that you can do fewer things. 381 00:21:43,326 --> 00:21:45,562 But then also there's the burden of. 382 00:21:45,618 --> 00:21:47,088 Being who I am. 383 00:21:47,141 --> 00:21:47,711 And. 384 00:21:48,205 --> 00:21:51,475 It feels like it's my responsibility. 385 00:21:51,475 --> 00:21:56,308 Sometimes I feel like sometimes I'm guilted into things and that's 386 00:21:56,428 --> 00:22:00,118 saying no is at the service to others who might have had the same 387 00:22:00,118 --> 00:22:02,578 situations of circumstances as me. 388 00:22:03,418 --> 00:22:05,449 And so I'm still working. 389 00:22:05,520 --> 00:22:09,532 I'm still working out some of that, but hopefully one of the things is also 390 00:22:09,532 --> 00:22:14,361 trying to talk to Who are like me or who are in my situation and, or others, 391 00:22:14,361 --> 00:22:18,565 who've had a lot more experience in this line that then I can learn from. 392 00:22:19,172 --> 00:22:24,384 To sacrifice my family for others would be a mistake. 393 00:22:24,534 --> 00:22:27,924 So I need to to learn how to balance. 394 00:22:28,134 --> 00:22:30,954 That is something I am definitely still struggling with. 395 00:22:32,224 --> 00:22:33,244 . Thank you for sharing that. 396 00:22:33,244 --> 00:22:33,994 So friendly. 397 00:22:34,534 --> 00:22:37,668 And I think for anybody who is listening, it is very important. 398 00:22:37,668 --> 00:22:43,608 What you just said, because what you are highlighting is the importance of self. 399 00:22:44,898 --> 00:22:49,048 Before going out in the world and trying to solve problems as a leader 400 00:22:49,048 --> 00:22:53,269 because it's the same matter for put your oxygen mask first and if you're 401 00:22:53,269 --> 00:22:58,339 not taking care of yourself and then everything you do elsewhere is going to 402 00:22:58,339 --> 00:23:00,229 be impacted in some way or the other. 403 00:23:01,099 --> 00:23:06,529 And that starts with seeing no, because every time you say no to something, 404 00:23:06,529 --> 00:23:11,014 you actually saying yes to something more important, I then I, and I think 405 00:23:11,062 --> 00:23:15,446 that's a key element of leadership and and that's what you just said. 406 00:23:15,522 --> 00:23:19,272 To move forward, what is it that you feel most grateful? 407 00:23:19,789 --> 00:23:24,509 My family my mom, my dad, my sisters. 408 00:23:24,509 --> 00:23:28,252 I'm absolutely grateful for them. 409 00:23:28,342 --> 00:23:28,582 I. 410 00:23:29,507 --> 00:23:32,406 I remain myself, because of them. 411 00:23:32,407 --> 00:23:36,561 But I'm also really grateful for my husband, and my kids that give 412 00:23:36,561 --> 00:23:41,884 me I'm blown away by my kids. 413 00:23:41,955 --> 00:23:45,165 I'm learning so much through them, which is so exciting. 414 00:23:45,282 --> 00:23:49,332 I know more about space travel because of that. 415 00:23:49,482 --> 00:23:54,154 So I know a lot about, satellite data and the data and analyzing it and 416 00:23:54,154 --> 00:24:01,162 everything, but learning about, Space travel and and going into all the details 417 00:24:01,162 --> 00:24:03,283 about, planets and stuff like that. 418 00:24:03,313 --> 00:24:06,599 And trying to come up with something more exciting every day 419 00:24:06,599 --> 00:24:08,319 to keep them engaged as quiet. 420 00:24:08,319 --> 00:24:09,489 The incredible actually. 421 00:24:10,689 --> 00:24:14,411 I'm absolutely grateful for my wonderful colleagues, I would 422 00:24:14,411 --> 00:24:19,961 say that I would not have had this opportunity to be on the world stage 423 00:24:19,961 --> 00:24:21,371 and talk about all of these things. 424 00:24:21,371 --> 00:24:26,951 If, for example, my PhD advisor didn't let me explore didn't let 425 00:24:26,951 --> 00:24:29,651 me figure things out on my own. 426 00:24:29,681 --> 00:24:35,335 And that has made me incredibly brave because I know that. 427 00:24:36,425 --> 00:24:42,935 I'm equipped to begin from nothing and learn new things 428 00:24:42,935 --> 00:24:45,065 and connect different things. 429 00:24:45,065 --> 00:24:49,475 And that I, if I have the will, I can make sense of it. 430 00:24:50,105 --> 00:24:52,730 And then having incredible people to work with. 431 00:24:52,760 --> 00:24:54,549 Allows you to do that. 432 00:24:54,551 --> 00:24:59,797 And I'm very fortunate in the sense that within the institution that I'm in, not 433 00:24:59,797 --> 00:25:05,437 only do I have access to the libraries that I've mentioned, which, You wouldn't 434 00:25:05,467 --> 00:25:10,370 otherwise, it's just incredible to be able to expose so many things, just being 435 00:25:10,370 --> 00:25:15,500 able to download as many articles as you can read them is incredible because 436 00:25:15,500 --> 00:25:18,170 other people don't have access to that. 437 00:25:18,170 --> 00:25:21,024 And I was just saying I think a web of science articles. 438 00:25:21,799 --> 00:25:26,269 OSI hub, just showing where research articles are being downloaded from. 439 00:25:26,389 --> 00:25:28,699 And you can see where the majority of being downloaded from. 440 00:25:28,699 --> 00:25:34,507 And it's, that just speaks to how so out of reach and an accessible 441 00:25:34,897 --> 00:25:37,163 knowledge is and information. 442 00:25:37,253 --> 00:25:42,713 And we can't overcome a lot of our differences, our limitations 443 00:25:42,722 --> 00:25:44,002 if people don't actually know. 444 00:25:44,452 --> 00:25:45,682 How the world works. 445 00:25:45,922 --> 00:25:48,532 You have a completely different perspective of it. 446 00:25:48,532 --> 00:25:52,402 Once you learn the more things you learn, keep calling it the burden of knowledge. 447 00:25:52,942 --> 00:26:00,352 Sometimes it feels paralyzing to understand the powerlessness of that. 448 00:26:00,352 --> 00:26:03,142 You, I feel like you become more powerless for the more knowledge 449 00:26:03,202 --> 00:26:06,562 you get, but then also you become more powerful at the same time. 450 00:26:06,562 --> 00:26:08,256 But being able to work with that. 451 00:26:09,516 --> 00:26:11,466 It's quite it's important. 452 00:26:11,466 --> 00:26:14,220 And that's the privilege that I feel like I've met. 453 00:26:14,708 --> 00:26:16,478 Yeah, thank you for sharing that. 454 00:26:16,898 --> 00:26:21,668 And I can't stop myself from asking this, but you USP, you're talking 455 00:26:21,668 --> 00:26:23,138 about being on the world stage. 456 00:26:23,228 --> 00:26:24,638 You're talking about pressure. 457 00:26:25,058 --> 00:26:30,098 You're talking about burden and responsibility, and I see an a and 458 00:26:30,098 --> 00:26:34,958 I still see a childlike wonder and the smart laughter on your face. 459 00:26:35,059 --> 00:26:35,659 I see. 460 00:26:35,659 --> 00:26:36,769 I do not see heaviness. 461 00:26:37,189 --> 00:26:38,989 I see a lot of light. 462 00:26:39,065 --> 00:26:43,222 As we are talking about it, and I want to understand what's the secret behind that? 463 00:26:43,269 --> 00:26:44,673 I think there's so much hope. 464 00:26:44,673 --> 00:26:45,707 There's so much hope. 465 00:26:45,725 --> 00:26:47,639 There's so much more that we can do. 466 00:26:47,674 --> 00:26:50,564 And the the privileged position that I find myself and I think, 467 00:26:50,595 --> 00:26:54,026 I allows me to be hopeful and. 468 00:26:54,543 --> 00:26:56,733 Yeah, I don't know. 469 00:26:57,183 --> 00:26:57,513 Yeah. 470 00:26:57,613 --> 00:27:00,553 I also see a lot of humility in 471 00:27:00,793 --> 00:27:01,333 the video. 472 00:27:01,363 --> 00:27:04,093 I think that comes from my, that comes from my parents. 473 00:27:04,184 --> 00:27:06,744 It comes from my upbringing, my life. 474 00:27:07,569 --> 00:27:12,089 If you met me while I was at my parents' house, a person that I know very closely 475 00:27:12,089 --> 00:27:17,609 describe my life as if I'm standing on two stools and balancing two stools. 476 00:27:17,639 --> 00:27:21,239 Like my family and my education. 477 00:27:21,239 --> 00:27:26,129 There is a very big disconnect between my upbringing and my job, but now 478 00:27:26,159 --> 00:27:28,139 there's an additional stool, which is. 479 00:27:29,639 --> 00:27:30,599 Being a mother. 480 00:27:31,079 --> 00:27:34,559 So balancing those three things, it's quite actually incredibly 481 00:27:34,559 --> 00:27:40,676 challenging and working so hard and staying loving and kind to them. 482 00:27:41,336 --> 00:27:45,390 Two of my sons, it takes self discipline and 483 00:27:45,907 --> 00:27:50,107 . I think the thing about me is that I try to be present when I'm doing a task. 484 00:27:50,707 --> 00:27:54,247 I can tell when I'm not like when I'm supposed to be watching 485 00:27:54,247 --> 00:27:56,167 my sons, but I get distracted. 486 00:27:56,748 --> 00:28:00,948 I can tell that I get angry really quickly when they ask me something, 487 00:28:00,978 --> 00:28:02,628 which as kids they should. 488 00:28:02,685 --> 00:28:06,285 Recognizing that helps me like switch off immediately. 489 00:28:06,465 --> 00:28:10,095 Like it has to be one or the other sometimes, and not both at the 490 00:28:10,095 --> 00:28:12,255 same time, but it's been very hard 491 00:28:12,255 --> 00:28:12,687 . Yes. 492 00:28:12,777 --> 00:28:16,317 And I think that self-awareness is the key, because otherwise 493 00:28:16,317 --> 00:28:19,917 you can go down a path without realizing that you're slipping or 494 00:28:19,917 --> 00:28:21,747 that you're not being disciplined. 495 00:28:21,747 --> 00:28:25,557 But what you just shared is that the moment you realized that you can actually 496 00:28:25,557 --> 00:28:27,767 pull yourself back to a place of balance 497 00:28:28,227 --> 00:28:28,437 . Yeah. 498 00:28:28,437 --> 00:28:30,977 And the other is having a sounding box. 499 00:28:31,097 --> 00:28:36,479 When I struggle through things, being able to have somebody that I can talk to. 500 00:28:37,419 --> 00:28:41,827 When I feel like I'm going down a rabbit hole just to check is everything okay. 501 00:28:41,953 --> 00:28:46,823 My reading is wrong and then the other is when faced with an incredibly 502 00:28:46,853 --> 00:28:48,620 challenging thing, stepping back. 503 00:28:48,661 --> 00:28:53,601 I say that I think I get very good ideas when I'm sleeping, but it's just that 504 00:28:53,601 --> 00:28:55,581 in the morning, right after I wake up. 505 00:28:56,266 --> 00:28:57,706 When I'm semi awake. 506 00:28:57,706 --> 00:28:59,791 But I went to bed thinking about this. 507 00:29:00,221 --> 00:29:04,695 I come up with another route of, another option because all the ones 508 00:29:04,695 --> 00:29:08,926 that I've thought about before then . So being able to recognize when. 509 00:29:09,376 --> 00:29:11,116 The brain's not functioning anymore. 510 00:29:11,896 --> 00:29:15,766 When you run dry of ideas, like finding that thing that brings back 511 00:29:16,006 --> 00:29:18,113 that that energy to get you thinking. 512 00:29:18,113 --> 00:29:19,703 I think I think it was important. 513 00:29:20,693 --> 00:29:21,143 Thank you. 514 00:29:21,713 --> 00:29:26,246 So what advice would you give somebody who is either going through a tough 515 00:29:26,276 --> 00:29:28,636 period or growing up in with limited. 516 00:29:29,526 --> 00:29:31,346 But still has big dreams late. 517 00:29:31,346 --> 00:29:32,855 Like you had maybe as a child. 518 00:29:33,335 --> 00:29:35,295 What advice would you give someone like that? 519 00:29:35,295 --> 00:29:40,246 The advice that I would give, have given to myself was to keep exploring, even 520 00:29:40,246 --> 00:29:46,505 with the limited things that that I had, I liked creating and creating with nothing. 521 00:29:46,775 --> 00:29:48,183 And I think that is important. 522 00:29:48,239 --> 00:29:49,777 Kids learn things. 523 00:29:50,294 --> 00:29:55,166 From touching and molding from putting blocks together, it gives 524 00:29:55,166 --> 00:29:58,677 them they learn a lot of things and it doesn't have to be anything special. 525 00:29:58,677 --> 00:29:59,847 It doesn't have to be Legos. 526 00:30:00,267 --> 00:30:04,797 You could just be like regular blocks that they made with boxes and things like that. 527 00:30:05,460 --> 00:30:07,720 So the advice I think I would give us two. 528 00:30:07,773 --> 00:30:11,546 Look out for things that grow you in a certain way. 529 00:30:11,546 --> 00:30:16,487 So me and my sisters, we worked in my mom's shop and in many 530 00:30:16,487 --> 00:30:20,189 instances, people would say that was maybe child labor, but it wasn't. 531 00:30:20,189 --> 00:30:24,174 I was learning about how my mom managed to. 532 00:30:24,624 --> 00:30:29,027 Take care of all of us with very little that she was making and 533 00:30:29,027 --> 00:30:32,911 how she was evolving it, that you can start with one thing that will 534 00:30:32,911 --> 00:30:34,651 become two and three and four. 535 00:30:35,131 --> 00:30:38,821 Not that it will all arrive at the same time, I think is the 536 00:30:38,821 --> 00:30:43,771 lesson is a lesson there that with very little, you can do so much. 537 00:30:43,808 --> 00:30:46,328 My mom is one of those people who benefited. 538 00:30:47,153 --> 00:30:53,161 From insurance programs and the loans that she received there was so little. 539 00:30:53,161 --> 00:30:57,348 But she, she continued to do this and if she'd wanted big loans, 540 00:30:57,348 --> 00:30:58,398 you'd never have gotten them. 541 00:30:58,458 --> 00:30:59,478 And that would have been. 542 00:31:00,498 --> 00:31:04,072 That would have removed all our hope, if she was a different person, but she still 543 00:31:04,072 --> 00:31:10,601 went from those little ones, grew them slowly, continuously until, she wanted 544 00:31:10,601 --> 00:31:13,091 to take out one to pay for my tuition. 545 00:31:13,781 --> 00:31:16,376 And, the bank was like you don't qualify. 546 00:31:16,376 --> 00:31:17,936 That's too much money for you. 547 00:31:18,506 --> 00:31:22,046 But because of that process, you formed a network of friends that 548 00:31:22,046 --> 00:31:24,926 trusted her . That her friends. 549 00:31:25,871 --> 00:31:29,231 Pull together the money to pay for me because they trusted her. 550 00:31:29,921 --> 00:31:31,811 She wouldn't have been able to do that. 551 00:31:31,929 --> 00:31:35,439 Because the amount of money we were talking about was so far out of 552 00:31:35,439 --> 00:31:39,421 reach, fundraise to get a flight ticket, but then you're talking about 553 00:31:39,517 --> 00:31:41,037 hundreds of thousands of dollars. 554 00:31:41,517 --> 00:31:43,547 To pay tuition. 555 00:31:43,767 --> 00:31:46,437 And so she built that network. 556 00:31:46,437 --> 00:31:51,166 She wouldn't have built that network have been able to get us where we are. 557 00:31:51,166 --> 00:31:54,933 So building slowly and I think the other thing is. 558 00:31:55,442 --> 00:32:00,068 I was thinking about this that no work is beneath, you as 559 00:32:00,068 --> 00:32:05,228 long as you learn something from it, nothing is beneath anybody. 560 00:32:05,288 --> 00:32:09,578 There's so much, you learn about how to work, how hard it is. 561 00:32:09,578 --> 00:32:12,428 Some of those stuff that I learned when I go to the field work, just 562 00:32:12,428 --> 00:32:14,688 how hard it is to have a hard haul. 563 00:32:14,700 --> 00:32:19,200 To work with a hand hole, it is so hot that if you try that, you would want 564 00:32:19,200 --> 00:32:20,923 to figure out how to do it differently. 565 00:32:20,968 --> 00:32:26,125 And so all of those things I think there's a lesson to learn in all of those things. 566 00:32:26,125 --> 00:32:30,025 And as you learn these things, it can all come together. 567 00:32:30,325 --> 00:32:35,225 So my mom learned to be an entrepreneur, by, from small things, to doing 568 00:32:35,225 --> 00:32:39,575 multiple things and trying to continue going forward rather than be stuck. 569 00:32:39,605 --> 00:32:41,777 And But stuck in a situation where. 570 00:32:42,827 --> 00:32:47,057 The dream was so big that it made it impossible to make small steps. 571 00:32:47,357 --> 00:32:51,587 So I'm that way maybe one day I'll be, I dunno, I have no idea what I could be, 572 00:32:51,587 --> 00:32:56,957 but it's because I didn't set a boundary or limit or much, much bigger goal. 573 00:32:56,957 --> 00:33:00,287 I have small goals that I can continue to build on. 574 00:33:00,407 --> 00:33:01,574 It's just my approach. 575 00:33:02,834 --> 00:33:03,224 Yes. 576 00:33:03,254 --> 00:33:04,304 Thank you for sharing that. 577 00:33:04,304 --> 00:33:09,125 And I think it ties all back down to that period of of childhood and. 578 00:33:10,405 --> 00:33:14,845 Similar story of my being and my mom being an entrepreneur and learning a 579 00:33:14,845 --> 00:33:19,315 lot from her because there was nothing else because there was no other way that 580 00:33:19,315 --> 00:33:24,335 she had to put herself into multiple positions, try out multiple things, 581 00:33:24,335 --> 00:33:27,755 because there was no privilege to choose. 582 00:33:27,945 --> 00:33:28,385 There was. 583 00:33:29,175 --> 00:33:32,235 Do whatever you can with whatever you have. 584 00:33:32,745 --> 00:33:35,623 And we might not realize it, but it helps us. 585 00:33:35,623 --> 00:33:38,963 And it certainly is true for me that it gives me so much, strength. 586 00:33:39,673 --> 00:33:43,573 It gives me so much resourcefulness and it keeps me grounded. 587 00:33:43,573 --> 00:33:46,063 Even when things look difficult to others. 588 00:33:46,813 --> 00:33:49,355 Yeah, I have a very modern example of this. 589 00:33:49,355 --> 00:33:50,838 For my work, I travel a lot. 590 00:33:50,876 --> 00:33:55,226 And I go to all sorts of places and it's a heavy data, heavy. 591 00:33:55,226 --> 00:33:58,046 We need internet without massive satellite data. 592 00:33:58,046 --> 00:34:00,536 We were trying to run complex programs. 593 00:34:00,596 --> 00:34:04,394 When I'm in the U S I can do something really quickly, and it doesn't cost 594 00:34:04,394 --> 00:34:06,344 me any extra money to download. 595 00:34:06,404 --> 00:34:06,794 I don't know. 596 00:34:06,794 --> 00:34:10,634 So many gigabytes of data, however, transport me. 597 00:34:12,094 --> 00:34:17,306 To east Africa out west Africa, even sometimes, some place like in Europe 598 00:34:17,636 --> 00:34:21,866 and me trying to do the same thing can become incredibly impossible. 599 00:34:22,286 --> 00:34:23,576 It can become challenging. 600 00:34:23,576 --> 00:34:27,326 And so like, when you are in that situation, you don't say 601 00:34:27,326 --> 00:34:29,036 this is completely impossible. 602 00:34:29,696 --> 00:34:33,986 You try to work out the next time you go, or when you're in. 603 00:34:34,416 --> 00:34:34,746 Space. 604 00:34:34,746 --> 00:34:42,366 Like I spent all of 20, 20, 20, 20 half of 2021 in Uganda with when 605 00:34:42,366 --> 00:34:45,747 the PA when airports shut down and everything we did within travel back. 606 00:34:46,197 --> 00:34:46,347 But. 607 00:34:47,147 --> 00:34:53,567 I continue to do my work and I try to continuously figure out how to do it 608 00:34:53,567 --> 00:34:57,658 better or how to communicate, how to stay in touch with people, working late 609 00:34:57,658 --> 00:35:02,801 hours, adjusting my, it was just, it's just that I, I didn't feel defeated 610 00:35:03,521 --> 00:35:05,801 and, figuring out what kind of data. 611 00:35:07,031 --> 00:35:10,661 And I learned how so much more expensive internet is. 612 00:35:10,661 --> 00:35:16,361 And I learned how to find all these other resources to explain in context that it 613 00:35:16,361 --> 00:35:21,041 might seem like a very smart app that is just fantastic from your perspective. 614 00:35:21,071 --> 00:35:25,181 But that application is completely out of reach to hundreds of thousands, 615 00:35:25,601 --> 00:35:31,001 millions of people, because simply by going to the link and trying to download. 616 00:35:31,841 --> 00:35:32,951 It just doesn't work. 617 00:35:32,951 --> 00:35:36,657 And so learning and working within that environment actually is incredible 618 00:35:36,657 --> 00:35:38,607 because you learn so much about how. 619 00:35:39,792 --> 00:35:46,032 How so many things that are very obvious, simple, accessible, and some 620 00:35:46,032 --> 00:35:51,012 contexts I actually completely, when they're completely removed, then you 621 00:35:51,012 --> 00:35:54,846 figure out what parts are the most important parts, but not, not a very 622 00:35:54,846 --> 00:35:56,946 fancy looking browser is the best. 623 00:35:57,276 --> 00:36:00,876 It's actually the simplest one, which downloads and gives you what you need. 624 00:36:00,876 --> 00:36:02,226 That's the most important part. 625 00:36:02,226 --> 00:36:04,746 So understanding that is really important. 626 00:36:05,225 --> 00:36:05,675 Yes. 627 00:36:05,735 --> 00:36:10,955 And how often that creates, or that leads to resilience, but also innovation, 628 00:36:11,165 --> 00:36:16,805 because then you have no other, if head down to sometimes cut corners to figure 629 00:36:16,805 --> 00:36:21,125 out a way that works other than figuring out the best of, or the ideal solution. 630 00:36:21,925 --> 00:36:22,105 Yeah. 631 00:36:22,705 --> 00:36:26,739 So before, yeah, before we ended our conversation and I think I can 632 00:36:26,739 --> 00:36:31,269 go on forever with the way this is going, what is the one message that 633 00:36:31,269 --> 00:36:33,759 you would like for our listeners? 634 00:36:34,179 --> 00:36:37,044 And if somebody wants to reach out to, more about you, how can they 635 00:36:37,044 --> 00:36:40,044 know more about what you do and what you're up to in the future? 636 00:36:40,108 --> 00:36:43,621 I guess I didn't really introduce what I have, what I do, but I worked for. 637 00:36:43,635 --> 00:36:47,085 The university of Maryland and the department of geographic sciences and 638 00:36:47,141 --> 00:36:51,474 the university, our department runs a program called NASA Hava, sits NASA. 639 00:36:51,954 --> 00:36:56,778 I've got some food security program and under that project I, the 640 00:36:57,308 --> 00:37:03,341 Africa activities and just searched for NASA Havas and my name and. 641 00:37:04,531 --> 00:37:08,581 You can find a lot of information about what we're doing and I'm 642 00:37:08,581 --> 00:37:10,591 on Twitter and I'm on LinkedIn. 643 00:37:11,671 --> 00:37:18,091 And I get the most interesting messages with so many people were really interested 644 00:37:18,091 --> 00:37:23,132 in and in my work and our program and. 645 00:37:24,312 --> 00:37:29,832 I'm really interested in finding ways I think to connect not only to connect, 646 00:37:29,892 --> 00:37:36,222 but come up with tangible ways of supporting researchers who come for in 647 00:37:36,822 --> 00:37:40,452 underprivileged, low resource, low access. 648 00:37:40,838 --> 00:37:43,861 To, to the things that actually make me who I am. 649 00:37:43,881 --> 00:37:48,981 And so I always try to work out so many ways to solve this problem and I cannot, 650 00:37:49,731 --> 00:37:53,785 and I would like to connect with others who were trying to do some of the things 651 00:37:53,785 --> 00:38:01,032 and in a way that, And support more people tap into the tools and resources, learning 652 00:38:01,032 --> 00:38:06,678 materials, books all those sorts of things that can open up the whole world to them. 653 00:38:07,458 --> 00:38:07,938 Yeah. 654 00:38:08,028 --> 00:38:12,963 So I'm happy to connect and brainstorm and learn from others about what 655 00:38:12,963 --> 00:38:14,403 they're doing in their field. 656 00:38:14,793 --> 00:38:16,743 And I listened to some of your podcasts. 657 00:38:16,773 --> 00:38:18,903 I've listened to, three or four episodes. 658 00:38:18,903 --> 00:38:21,393 And it's just incredible how. 659 00:38:21,486 --> 00:38:24,846 People reflect on this place and what they do. 660 00:38:25,686 --> 00:38:30,156 And it's, there's just so much to learn and I learn a lot by listening. 661 00:38:30,156 --> 00:38:34,536 And so I found it really interesting and I'm hoping to keep listening and 662 00:38:34,926 --> 00:38:37,326 connecting with other people as well. 663 00:38:38,711 --> 00:38:40,541 Thank you Catherine for your time. 664 00:38:41,111 --> 00:38:44,530 And I wish you all the best for the future for everything that 665 00:38:44,530 --> 00:38:46,043 you're going to do in the future. 666 00:38:46,043 --> 00:38:49,822 And I hope you can continue doing that with the same wide grin that 667 00:38:49,822 --> 00:38:52,558 you have shown on this podcast today. 668 00:38:52,828 --> 00:38:53,638 Thank you for that. 669 00:38:53,698 --> 00:38:54,028 Thank you. 670 00:38:54,568 --> 00:38:54,958 Thank you. 671 00:38:54,958 --> 00:38:56,098 And thank you for having me. 672 00:38:56,666 --> 00:39:00,056 That's it for this episode of choosing leadership with summit. 673 00:39:01,196 --> 00:39:04,886 I choose leadership every time I record this podcast and I 674 00:39:04,886 --> 00:39:06,326 invite you to do the same. 675 00:39:06,776 --> 00:39:11,156 I invite you to design a life of joy, meaning pride and satisfaction. 676 00:39:11,636 --> 00:39:14,576 Not just for yourself, but also for those around you. 677 00:39:15,416 --> 00:39:19,556 This is what I do most naturally to lovingly and gently provoke you. 678 00:39:20,006 --> 00:39:24,476 To help you see your own light to help you see what you are already capable of. 679 00:39:24,956 --> 00:39:28,856 I say what might be uncomfortable for me to say, or for you to hear. 680 00:39:29,456 --> 00:39:34,576 To show you that all of our dreams which have been on hold are within our grasp. 681 00:39:36,206 --> 00:39:39,446 If you like the sound of it, do not forget to leave a rating. 682 00:39:40,016 --> 00:39:44,216 I invite you to subscribe to my newsletter@deployyourself.com 683 00:39:44,546 --> 00:39:45,506 slash newsletter. 684 00:39:46,136 --> 00:39:49,976 You can also reach out on LinkedIn, Twitter, and Facebook to share 685 00:39:50,036 --> 00:39:51,656 any other comment or feedback. 686 00:39:52,526 --> 00:39:55,976 I want to thank everyone who contributed to making the show. 687 00:39:56,036 --> 00:39:56,726 At reality. 688 00:39:57,236 --> 00:39:58,796 And thank you for listening. 689 00:39:59,276 --> 00:40:03,806 Always remember that you are enough, you are loved and you matter, this is summit. 690 00:40:04,196 --> 00:40:06,746 Until next time, keep choosing leadership.