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It is wide and deep, just"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":168.96,"endTime":171.09,"body":"like the world of the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":168.96,"endTime":171.09,"body":"imagination."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":178.29,"endTime":182.19,"body":"So Dina, welcome."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":182.7,"endTime":185.73,"body":"Thank you, honey. It's always"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":182.7,"endTime":185.73,"body":"lovely to talk to you."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":186.03,"endTime":189.78,"body":"Yeah, same. It's really do you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":186.03,"endTime":189.78,"body":"know what, it's interesting"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":189.81,"endTime":196.62,"body":"before? 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And,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":651.84,"endTime":657.33,"body":"and the imagery is part of that."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":651.84,"endTime":657.33,"body":"And so the imagery, we use the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":657.33,"endTime":668.94,"body":"imagery first, to, to illuminate"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":657.33,"endTime":668.94,"body":"what our, what I call our"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":668.94,"endTime":673.44,"body":"everyday imagery is, what are"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":668.94,"endTime":673.44,"body":"the images that are underlying"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":673.44,"endTime":677.67,"body":"our experience, which may be"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":673.44,"endTime":677.67,"body":"outdated or negative, or not"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":677.67,"endTime":682.53,"body":"good for us. But first, we have"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":677.67,"endTime":682.53,"body":"to find them. And then, you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":682.53,"endTime":691.95,"body":"know, so for example, if I get"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":682.53,"endTime":691.95,"body":"an image of a bird that flies"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":692.34,"endTime":698.7,"body":"flying in a really confused way,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":692.34,"endTime":698.7,"body":"and can't get its bearings. So"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":698.7,"endTime":702.78,"body":"that is what's going on now. And"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":698.7,"endTime":702.78,"body":"maybe it turns out that the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":702.78,"endTime":707.22,"body":"birds been hit by something. And"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":702.78,"endTime":707.22,"body":"maybe in real life, it was hit"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":707.43,"endTime":710.61,"body":"by someone saying something"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":707.43,"endTime":710.61,"body":"awful to them as well. So I'm"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":710.61,"endTime":718.68,"body":"identifying first, what's going"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":710.61,"endTime":718.68,"body":"on. And then I start working"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":718.68,"endTime":723.21,"body":"with it. And I say, okay, if I'm"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":718.68,"endTime":723.21,"body":"evil were like, from above, what"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":723.21,"endTime":727.86,"body":"would I say to that bird? I'd"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":723.21,"endTime":727.86,"body":"say, Oh, you've just got badly"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":727.86,"endTime":735.57,"body":"hurt, don't keep flying. Just"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":727.86,"endTime":735.57,"body":"rest and see what happens. So so"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":735.57,"endTime":739.65,"body":"we start to move through, the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":735.57,"endTime":739.65,"body":"place that we're at with an"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":739.65,"endTime":744.42,"body":"images may be jarring, or"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":739.65,"endTime":744.42,"body":"painful, or comes from Pat from"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":744.42,"endTime":749.4,"body":"the past or from our childhood."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":744.42,"endTime":749.4,"body":"And we try to bring it into a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":749.4,"endTime":753.45,"body":"bigger picture with, as you say,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":749.4,"endTime":753.45,"body":"with compassion. It is really I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":753.45,"endTime":756.93,"body":"hadn't thought of it that way."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":753.45,"endTime":756.93,"body":"But it is all about compassion,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":756.93,"endTime":763.8,"body":"because we're saying it's okay"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":756.93,"endTime":763.8,"body":"for you to be as you are. And"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":763.8,"endTime":765.15,"body":"there is a way forward."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":765.27,"endTime":769.83,"body":"Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. And I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":765.27,"endTime":769.83,"body":"think it's also there's this,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":770.16,"endTime":775.38,"body":"this place of non judgement in"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":770.16,"endTime":775.38,"body":"the, it's, it's okay, whatever"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":775.38,"endTime":780.18,"body":"image comes up, you know, I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":775.38,"endTime":780.18,"body":"know, one of the sort of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":780.21,"endTime":784.77,"body":"instructions or invitations is"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":780.21,"endTime":784.77,"body":"that is to accept the first"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":784.77,"endTime":787.71,"body":"image that comes to mind, even"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":784.77,"endTime":787.71,"body":"if we don't like it, or even if"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":787.71,"endTime":792.6,"body":"we're confused by it, or, yeah,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":787.71,"endTime":792.6,"body":"think it's an unattractive"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":792.6,"endTime":796.23,"body":"thing, whatever it might be, go"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":792.6,"endTime":796.23,"body":"with it, and don't judge."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":796.679,"endTime":801.479,"body":"Absolutely. And you'll find that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":796.679,"endTime":801.479,"body":"that has gold in it, once we"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":801.479,"endTime":805.799,"body":"bring it to the surface. And if"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":801.479,"endTime":805.799,"body":"we start to work with it, in our"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":805.859,"endTime":808.799,"body":"I remember, I once had an image"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":805.859,"endTime":808.799,"body":"of being a tin can that was"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":808.799,"endTime":811.439,"body":"kicked around, of course, I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":808.799,"endTime":811.439,"body":"wanted to get rid of it, but"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":811.439,"endTime":815.879,"body":"because I kept it on, I started"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":811.439,"endTime":815.879,"body":"to explore what was going on,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":816.209,"endTime":822.569,"body":"when I needed to do about it,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":816.209,"endTime":822.569,"body":"and so on. So it's so I almost"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":822.569,"endTime":825.629,"body":"think the worse the image, the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":822.569,"endTime":825.629,"body":"more the golden it, you know,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":826.619,"endTime":830.279,"body":"that may be just, like, might"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":826.619,"endTime":830.279,"body":"not be true."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":831.659,"endTime":838.559,"body":"Well, no judgement. I was"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":831.659,"endTime":838.559,"body":"reminded, as you said, as we"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":838.559,"endTime":843.329,"body":"were just talking about that of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":838.559,"endTime":843.329,"body":"the first time I took myself"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":843.329,"endTime":848.219,"body":"through an image work exercise,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":843.329,"endTime":848.219,"body":"I think before we began working"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":848.219,"endTime":855.599,"body":"on the diploma and and all and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":848.219,"endTime":855.599,"body":"the image I had or the kind of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":855.599,"endTime":858.719,"body":"sense of the image because"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":855.599,"endTime":858.719,"body":"that's one of the things I'd"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":858.719,"endTime":861.059,"body":"like to touch on at some point"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":858.719,"endTime":861.059,"body":"actually is it's not necessarily"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":861.059,"endTime":865.769,"body":"about images, you know,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":861.059,"endTime":865.769,"body":"pictures, it's about it can also"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":865.769,"endTime":869.219,"body":"be that sort of sense of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":865.769,"endTime":869.219,"body":"something. And so I had this"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":869.249,"endTime":877.589,"body":"sense of some salmon swimming in"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":869.249,"endTime":877.589,"body":"a river. And I was just I was"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":877.589,"endTime":884.189,"body":"completely nonplussed by these"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":877.589,"endTime":884.189,"body":"salmon i and, and it was just"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":884.189,"endTime":889.109,"body":"this short patch of river and,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":884.189,"endTime":889.109,"body":"and I found it a bit boring this"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":889.109,"endTime":893.069,"body":"image, and I stayed with it"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":889.109,"endTime":893.069,"body":"because that was the guidance."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":893.699,"endTime":899.549,"body":"And as I explored it more and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":893.699,"endTime":899.549,"body":"panned out, I realised I wasn't"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":899.549,"endTime":903.539,"body":"the summer And I was actually"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":899.549,"endTime":903.539,"body":"the river. And the salmon were"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":903.539,"endTime":907.679,"body":"these thoughts endlessly"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":903.539,"endTime":907.679,"body":"swimming upstream. And as the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":907.679,"endTime":913.079,"body":"river I was just holding them"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":907.679,"endTime":913.079,"body":"stuck in place. And as they"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":913.079,"endTime":915.389,"body":"panned out and became"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":913.079,"endTime":915.389,"body":"consciousness looking down, I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":915.389,"endTime":919.259,"body":"realised, actually, as a river,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":915.389,"endTime":919.259,"body":"I had this beginning that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":919.259,"endTime":922.649,"body":"stretched all the way back, and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":919.259,"endTime":922.649,"body":"this ending that stretched all"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":922.649,"endTime":926.699,"body":"the way forward. And I, I'd lost"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":922.649,"endTime":926.699,"body":"sight of the fact that I had"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":926.699,"endTime":933.659,"body":"this, this sort of length and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":926.699,"endTime":933.659,"body":"breadth and depth to me. And"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":933.659,"endTime":936.599,"body":"that the salmon were just being"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":933.659,"endTime":936.599,"body":"salmon, they were just doing"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":936.599,"endTime":941.639,"body":"their thing. And when I let them"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":936.599,"endTime":941.639,"body":"go, they would move on and other"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":941.639,"endTime":946.499,"body":"someone would come, and that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":941.639,"endTime":946.499,"body":"would be fine. And so that place"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":946.499,"endTime":951.539,"body":"of like trusting the process, I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":946.499,"endTime":951.539,"body":"think, is also a huge part of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":951.929,"endTime":953.669,"body":"the compassion, the non"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":951.929,"endTime":953.669,"body":"judgement."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":955.049,"endTime":960.749,"body":"And I would say that you're also"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":955.049,"endTime":960.749,"body":"the salmon, and salmon, you're"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":960.749,"endTime":965.129,"body":"also the river and that we are"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":960.749,"endTime":965.129,"body":"multi level. And that's really"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":965.249,"endTime":965.939,"body":"wonderful."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":967.289,"endTime":970.409,"body":"And I was also the willow tree"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":967.289,"endTime":970.409,"body":"that looked down on the river."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":972.87,"endTime":976.44,"body":"And each one has a quality that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":972.87,"endTime":976.44,"body":"we can recognise, because the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":976.44,"endTime":981.63,"body":"salmon is going somewhere, isn't"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":976.44,"endTime":981.63,"body":"it? Going home? Yeah. And I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":981.63,"endTime":987.33,"body":"think you recognise that, that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":981.63,"endTime":987.33,"body":"about your experiences. So when"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":987.33,"endTime":992.61,"body":"the river is flowing, endlessly,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":987.33,"endTime":992.61,"body":"and and that also you recognise,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":992.61,"endTime":995.67,"body":"and I don't know that the will"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":992.61,"endTime":995.67,"body":"but there was something about"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":995.67,"endTime":1000.05,"body":"that, that's also an aspect of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":995.67,"endTime":1000.05,"body":"you. And it's really wonderful"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1000.05,"endTime":1003.62,"body":"to know that we're not this"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1000.05,"endTime":1003.62,"body":"simple, boring, I'm like this,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1003.62,"endTime":1008.33,"body":"I'm like that, but I'm all these"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1003.62,"endTime":1008.33,"body":"things, and more. And so we're,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1008.33,"endTime":1012.08,"body":"you know, amazing to you."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1014.929,"endTime":1020.239,"body":"This, there's something in that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1014.929,"endTime":1020.239,"body":"about labels about and I think"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1020.239,"endTime":1022.699,"body":"this sort of touches on what you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1020.239,"endTime":1022.699,"body":"were saying earlier, as well"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1022.699,"endTime":1026.899,"body":"about the culture, the language"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1022.699,"endTime":1026.899,"body":"of the culture, that we can end"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1026.899,"endTime":1032.059,"body":"up carrying all of these labels"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1026.899,"endTime":1032.059,"body":"about ourselves and, you know,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1032.059,"endTime":1035.449,"body":"conversation that people often"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1032.059,"endTime":1035.449,"body":"have, it's like, you know, how"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1035.479,"endTime":1039.259,"body":"much they hate the question"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1035.479,"endTime":1039.259,"body":"about what do you do? Because"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1040.069,"endTime":1045.979,"body":"it's this narrow, constraining"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1040.069,"endTime":1045.979,"body":"label. And"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1047.72,"endTime":1050.72,"body":"America, one of the questions"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1047.72,"endTime":1050.72,"body":"those to ask at a party is what"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1050.72,"endTime":1053.33,"body":"do you make? Meaning? Do you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1054.95,"endTime":1056.75,"body":"see so as a British girl?"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1060.11,"endTime":1063.05,"body":"What's really interesting, as"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1060.11,"endTime":1063.05,"body":"you know, I read a book about"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1063.05,"endTime":1067.7,"body":"burnout. And that is called the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1063.05,"endTime":1067.7,"body":"joy of burnout, because it's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1067.7,"endTime":1073.01,"body":"about people eventually finding"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1067.7,"endTime":1073.01,"body":"their joy. But the, the, the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1073.01,"endTime":1077.45,"body":"really painful thing people talk"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1073.01,"endTime":1077.45,"body":"about, who have been committed"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1077.45,"endTime":1081.77,"body":"to what I say what I call that,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1077.45,"endTime":1081.77,"body":"you know, they're like this with"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1081.77,"endTime":1084.83,"body":"the golden eggs, they have all"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1081.77,"endTime":1084.83,"body":"these achievements, and so on."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1085.07,"endTime":1087.77,"body":"And the really painful thing is"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1085.07,"endTime":1087.77,"body":"going to a party and being"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1087.77,"endTime":1091.25,"body":"asked, What do you do? And at"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1087.77,"endTime":1091.25,"body":"the moment that they've burned"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1091.25,"endTime":1097.94,"body":"out, then not doing anything?"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1091.25,"endTime":1097.94,"body":"And it's a real moment of truth,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1097.97,"endTime":1102.5,"body":"to feel the shame of that. I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1097.97,"endTime":1102.5,"body":"can't answer that question. And"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1102.5,"endTime":1106.82,"body":"then to go deeper, and to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1102.5,"endTime":1106.82,"body":"realise, I'm not what I do, I'm"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1106.82,"endTime":1110.63,"body":"something else. And I'm going to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1106.82,"endTime":1110.63,"body":"find out what that is, you know,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1110.63,"endTime":1115.25,"body":"so the burden that gives them"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1110.63,"endTime":1115.25,"body":"not just permission, but that's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1115.25,"endTime":1118.49,"body":"almost a requirement, unless"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1115.25,"endTime":1118.49,"body":"they, some people just want to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1118.55,"endTime":1121.97,"body":"get better and go back. But the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1118.55,"endTime":1121.97,"body":"ones that take it seriously,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1122.27,"endTime":1125.0,"body":"really have to go a little"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1122.27,"endTime":1125.0,"body":"deeper to find out where their"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1125.0,"endTime":1130.34,"body":"true joy is, and, and not what"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1125.0,"endTime":1130.34,"body":"they do, you know, because what"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1130.34,"endTime":1133.19,"body":"do you do? Well, that depends."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1134.27,"endTime":1141.98,"body":"I have a very personal resonance"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1134.27,"endTime":1141.98,"body":"with that. So I think I hit my"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1141.98,"endTime":1145.7,"body":"first burnout. Not I think I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1141.98,"endTime":1145.7,"body":"know, I hit my first burnout at"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1145.7,"endTime":1150.53,"body":"university. Wow. And ended up"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1145.7,"endTime":1150.53,"body":"dropping out for a year. Yeah, I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1150.53,"endTime":1158.6,"body":"was an early starter, you know."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1150.53,"endTime":1158.6,"body":"And, you know, learn a huge"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1158.6,"endTime":1166.4,"body":"amount from that experience. I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1158.6,"endTime":1166.4,"body":"knew, I knew I needed to make a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1166.4,"endTime":1170.42,"body":"change because I heard myself"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1166.4,"endTime":1170.42,"body":"crossing the road and I heard"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1170.42,"endTime":1175.34,"body":"the voice in my head say, if"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1170.42,"endTime":1175.34,"body":"only a car could hit me just"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1175.34,"endTime":1178.49,"body":"enough that I ended up in"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1175.34,"endTime":1178.49,"body":"hospital for a while, but I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1178.49,"endTime":1182.99,"body":"don't die. And I got to the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1178.49,"endTime":1182.99,"body":"other side of the road and I saw"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1184.88,"endTime":1186.77,"body":"something needs to change here."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1187.34,"endTime":1191.36,"body":"Notice that this is what people"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1187.34,"endTime":1191.36,"body":"would say to me, that's what"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1191.36,"endTime":1195.02,"body":"people think. If only I could"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1191.36,"endTime":1195.02,"body":"end up in hospital with those"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1195.02,"endTime":1200.39,"body":"lovely white sheets and not have"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1195.02,"endTime":1200.39,"body":"to do anything and not I had to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1200.39,"endTime":1205.79,"body":"go to work. But they couldn't"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1200.39,"endTime":1205.79,"body":"say no to work. They had to have"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1205.79,"endTime":1209.57,"body":"the accident, you know. So it's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1205.79,"endTime":1209.57,"body":"good, you were listening."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1209.93,"endTime":1214.28,"body":"But I did listen, and I dropped"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1209.93,"endTime":1214.28,"body":"out of university for a year."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1214.31,"endTime":1218.84,"body":"But I did go back, which is even"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1214.31,"endTime":1218.84,"body":"more sort of surprising. And"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1218.84,"endTime":1224.3,"body":"then I hit another one, when I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1218.84,"endTime":1224.3,"body":"was in my late 30s. And and then"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1224.3,"endTime":1230.9,"body":"the, the one that really when"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1224.3,"endTime":1230.9,"body":"the universe and my body worked"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1230.93,"endTime":1235.52,"body":"really together and decided this"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1230.93,"endTime":1235.52,"body":"time, she's got to bloody well"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1235.52,"endTime":1243.89,"body":"listen. So that was in 2016,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1235.52,"endTime":1243.89,"body":"when I when I really almost"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1243.89,"endTime":1248.57,"body":"didn't make it through. So that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1243.89,"endTime":1248.57,"body":"experience of birth,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1248.989,"endTime":1250.129,"body":"you almost died."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1253.07,"endTime":1258.8,"body":"So I had pneumonia three times"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1253.07,"endTime":1258.8,"body":"that year. And the third, the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1258.8,"endTime":1262.82,"body":"third bout I ended up with"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1258.8,"endTime":1262.82,"body":"another virus was trying to shut"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1262.82,"endTime":1268.01,"body":"down all my internal organs. And"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1262.82,"endTime":1268.01,"body":"I had sepsis. Oh, yeah,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1268.01,"endTime":1272.33,"body":"isolation suite, isolation"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1268.01,"endTime":1272.33,"body":"suite, still on my phone"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1272.36,"endTime":1277.04,"body":"answering work emails. So you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1272.36,"endTime":1277.04,"body":"know, when you said at the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1277.04,"endTime":1279.2,"body":"beginning, but actually I think"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1277.04,"endTime":1279.2,"body":"it was before we started"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1279.2,"endTime":1282.41,"body":"recording, and he said, Oh, you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1279.2,"endTime":1282.41,"body":"know, you're you're a real go"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1282.41,"endTime":1286.76,"body":"getter or something, you you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1282.41,"endTime":1286.76,"body":"know, you get things done. drug"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1286.76,"endTime":1289.7,"body":"of choice? Is the tell"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1289.7,"endTime":1293.99,"body":"me something you said there was"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1289.7,"endTime":1293.99,"body":"something you needed to learn?"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1294.02,"endTime":1298.4,"body":"And you're gonna, what? Do you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1294.02,"endTime":1298.4,"body":"know what to do? Well, it was"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1298.4,"endTime":1299.81,"body":"through all of those."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1302.12,"endTime":1305.36,"body":"Oh, a number of things, I think."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1302.12,"endTime":1305.36,"body":"But"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1307.64,"endTime":1311.36,"body":"what was it that you were self"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1307.64,"endTime":1311.36,"body":"compassion? There was self"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1311.36,"endTime":1314.24,"body":"compassion. And that's why"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1311.36,"endTime":1314.24,"body":"you've made that your max work?"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1314.36,"endTime":1318.05,"body":"Yeah. And I think that is, I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1314.36,"endTime":1318.05,"body":"think that's the sort of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1318.05,"endTime":1323.12,"body":"beautiful thing that people do"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1318.05,"endTime":1323.12,"body":"this generous generosity, that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1323.12,"endTime":1326.12,"body":"whatever they have suffered"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1323.12,"endTime":1326.12,"body":"from, they want to make sure"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1326.12,"endTime":1330.35,"body":"that other people, if they can"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1326.12,"endTime":1330.35,"body":"help it, if you can help it, you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1330.35,"endTime":1334.4,"body":"don't want other people to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1330.35,"endTime":1334.4,"body":"suffer from what you suffered"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1334.4,"endTime":1336.89,"body":"from and with life's work."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1337.46,"endTime":1341.99,"body":"And, and so and so that feels"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1337.46,"endTime":1341.99,"body":"like a really beautiful question"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1342.08,"endTime":1347.81,"body":"to turn to you, actually."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1342.08,"endTime":1347.81,"body":"Because having read your book,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1347.9,"endTime":1353.3,"body":"into the woods and out again,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1347.9,"endTime":1353.3,"body":"and read of some of the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1353.3,"endTime":1357.47,"body":"experiences that you've had,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1353.3,"endTime":1357.47,"body":"what politics sorry about that,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1357.92,"endTime":1361.19,"body":"it's, it feels to me, like so"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1357.92,"endTime":1361.19,"body":"much of your life's work has"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1361.19,"endTime":1366.35,"body":"been inspired by the pain, the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1361.19,"endTime":1366.35,"body":"beauty and the pain of what"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1366.41,"endTime":1370.7,"body":"you've experienced. And so"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1366.41,"endTime":1370.7,"body":"what's what what would you say"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1370.7,"endTime":1375.5,"body":"is the thing that you are"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1370.7,"endTime":1375.5,"body":"offering out into the world to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1375.53,"endTime":1378.92,"body":"support others from having to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1375.53,"endTime":1378.92,"body":"experience?"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1382.43,"endTime":1386.45,"body":"So as the one thing I mean, is"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1382.43,"endTime":1386.45,"body":"interesting question, because"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1386.45,"endTime":1391.7,"body":"there's the I suppose there's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1386.45,"endTime":1391.7,"body":"the method, which is, I'm"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1391.7,"endTime":1396.14,"body":"teaching people how to use their"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1391.7,"endTime":1396.14,"body":"deepest imagery to understand"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1396.14,"endTime":1404.27,"body":"themselves to deal with it"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1396.14,"endTime":1404.27,"body":"difficulties to, to create their"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1404.27,"endTime":1410.54,"body":"life afresh, because that's what"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1404.27,"endTime":1410.54,"body":"I used to get me through really"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1410.54,"endTime":1416.51,"body":"difficult times. And what was"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1410.54,"endTime":1416.51,"body":"amazing was that I would just"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1416.54,"endTime":1421.82,"body":"make up a weird sort of image"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1416.54,"endTime":1421.82,"body":"thing, a house of truth, or seem"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1421.82,"endTime":1425.63,"body":"to me, I was making it up house"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1421.82,"endTime":1425.63,"body":"of truth, or pulling back the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1425.63,"endTime":1429.29,"body":"energy like like spaghetti from"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1425.63,"endTime":1429.29,"body":"some, you know, strange things,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1429.32,"endTime":1432.17,"body":"and then I would try them with"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1429.32,"endTime":1432.17,"body":"other people. And they worked."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1432.17,"endTime":1437.03,"body":"So it was like, oh, there is a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1432.17,"endTime":1437.03,"body":"universal quality to these"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1437.03,"endTime":1443.15,"body":"images. They are mine, but"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1437.03,"endTime":1443.15,"body":"they're also also universal. So"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1443.15,"endTime":1447.86,"body":"on one level, I was teaching"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1443.15,"endTime":1447.86,"body":"people the way, the way the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1448.07,"endTime":1459.02,"body":"methods I used on my own mainly"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1448.07,"endTime":1459.02,"body":"to get myself not just through"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1459.32,"endTime":1463.64,"body":"it, but through in a creative"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1459.32,"endTime":1463.64,"body":"way, and to be able to create"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1463.64,"endTime":1471.38,"body":"wonderful things which I had the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1463.64,"endTime":1471.38,"body":"privilege of doing. But on"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1471.38,"endTime":1480.65,"body":"another level, I think I find"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1471.38,"endTime":1480.65,"body":"that people I meet will tell me"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1480.65,"endTime":1484.52,"body":"things they've never told"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1480.65,"endTime":1484.52,"body":"anyone. That's not because of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1484.61,"endTime":1489.29,"body":"the imagery. I think it's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1484.61,"endTime":1489.29,"body":"because they feel and someone"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1489.29,"endTime":1492.56,"body":"said that I would be"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1489.29,"endTime":1492.56,"body":"unshockable, that I would be non"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1492.56,"endTime":1496.19,"body":"judgmental, that I would just"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1492.56,"endTime":1496.19,"body":"listen and say, Oh, yes, I know"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1496.19,"endTime":1502.04,"body":"what you mean of course. And I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1496.19,"endTime":1502.04,"body":"have this expression which"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1502.04,"endTime":1506.99,"body":"people really resonate with, of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1502.04,"endTime":1506.99,"body":"looking at people and yourself"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1506.99,"endTime":1512.63,"body":"with compassion for your pain"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1506.99,"endTime":1512.63,"body":"and limitation, and respect for"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1512.63,"endTime":1519.62,"body":"your magnificence at the same"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1512.63,"endTime":1519.62,"body":"time. And I think that, that is"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1519.62,"endTime":1524.6,"body":"like a great lesson for people"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1519.62,"endTime":1524.6,"body":"to learn. Because when we're"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1524.78,"endTime":1529.28,"body":"feeling bad, then we are bad,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1524.78,"endTime":1529.28,"body":"then we're no good, then nobody"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1529.28,"endTime":1532.91,"body":"would love me, you know, all the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1529.28,"endTime":1532.91,"body":"negative stuff happens. But for"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1532.91,"endTime":1537.29,"body":"someone to say, I can see your"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1532.91,"endTime":1537.29,"body":"suffering. And I have compassion"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1537.29,"endTime":1541.22,"body":"for that. And I also know that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1537.29,"endTime":1541.22,"body":"you're amazing at the same time."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1541.88,"endTime":1546.17,"body":"And I discovered this when I was"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1541.88,"endTime":1546.17,"body":"working with people's fears of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1546.17,"endTime":1551.18,"body":"the future, because I discovered"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1546.17,"endTime":1551.18,"body":"that their fear of the future, I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1551.18,"endTime":1554.75,"body":"mean, say it was a being poverty"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1551.18,"endTime":1554.75,"body":"and said, poverty and sitting"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1554.75,"endTime":1559.61,"body":"under the arches. It turned out,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1554.75,"endTime":1559.61,"body":"it wasn't that they didn't have"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1559.61,"endTime":1562.58,"body":"money, and were under Dr. And"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1559.61,"endTime":1562.58,"body":"turned out that it was because"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1562.64,"endTime":1568.85,"body":"they collapsed, and forgot who"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1562.64,"endTime":1568.85,"body":"they were. And that was the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1568.85,"endTime":1573.83,"body":"thing they were afraid of so. So"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1568.85,"endTime":1573.83,"body":"my method of dealing with it was"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1573.83,"endTime":1578.45,"body":"to take the person, the present"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1573.83,"endTime":1578.45,"body":"person into the future picture"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1578.6,"endTime":1582.65,"body":"and look at that person with"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1578.6,"endTime":1582.65,"body":"compassion, and also respect to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1582.65,"endTime":1586.94,"body":"their magnificence. And the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1582.65,"endTime":1586.94,"body":"person would wake up and say,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1586.94,"endTime":1593.36,"body":"Oh, I'm not just a slob under"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1586.94,"endTime":1593.36,"body":"the arches, you know, I'm a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1593.36,"endTime":1598.76,"body":"creative person I can, I can, I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1593.36,"endTime":1598.76,"body":"can manage this. So maybe on the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1598.76,"endTime":1606.26,"body":"deepest level, it is teaching"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1598.76,"endTime":1606.26,"body":"people that compassion for their"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1606.26,"endTime":1610.61,"body":"pain and limitation. Doesn't"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1606.26,"endTime":1610.61,"body":"mean that they're not"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1610.61,"endTime":1616.52,"body":"magnificent. It's that they are"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1610.61,"endTime":1616.52,"body":"both that we are all both and,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1617.9,"endTime":1621.26,"body":"and that, and that someone who's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1617.9,"endTime":1621.26,"body":"going through hell is going"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1621.26,"endTime":1624.08,"body":"through hell, but that doesn't"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1621.26,"endTime":1624.08,"body":"make them any less magnificent."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1624.47,"endTime":1632.15,"body":"And that is, is a really amazing"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1624.47,"endTime":1632.15,"body":"thing to know. And I think it's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1632.15,"endTime":1635.27,"body":"a relief to people. It's a great"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1632.15,"endTime":1635.27,"body":"relief. I remember once when I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1635.27,"endTime":1639.8,"body":"had this experience of realising"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1635.27,"endTime":1639.8,"body":"that the difficult things and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1639.8,"endTime":1644.48,"body":"the good things were like the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1639.8,"endTime":1644.48,"body":"cocktail of being me. And it"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1644.48,"endTime":1648.29,"body":"wasn't that I was bad when I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1644.48,"endTime":1648.29,"body":"felt bad. You know, when I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1648.29,"endTime":1651.29,"body":"realised that I just got hard, I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1648.29,"endTime":1651.29,"body":"thought, oh, I can do anything,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1651.29,"endTime":1652.52,"body":"then. You know,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1654.2,"endTime":1660.38,"body":"it's definitely been one of the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1654.2,"endTime":1660.38,"body":"big learnings for me in in the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1660.47,"endTime":1667.91,"body":"months that we've been working"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1660.47,"endTime":1667.91,"body":"together is this. Well, I mean,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1667.91,"endTime":1671.42,"body":"I think I described it actually,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1667.91,"endTime":1671.42,"body":"in one of the sessions, one of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1671.42,"endTime":1676.01,"body":"the practice sessions that we"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1671.42,"endTime":1676.01,"body":"did is there is room for pain"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1676.04,"endTime":1680.48,"body":"and joy that that that's how it"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1676.04,"endTime":1680.48,"body":"kind of felt that it translated"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1680.48,"endTime":1685.25,"body":"inside me was that I have room"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1680.48,"endTime":1685.25,"body":"for pain and joy, I don't the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1685.25,"endTime":1689.93,"body":"joy does, doesn't have to be"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1685.25,"endTime":1689.93,"body":"pushing the pain away. And the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1689.93,"endTime":1694.07,"body":"pain doesn't have to overwhelm"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1689.93,"endTime":1694.07,"body":"the joy, there is room for both."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1694.07,"endTime":1702.77,"body":"And so yes, I, I hear that. The"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1694.07,"endTime":1702.77,"body":"resonance of what you're, you're"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1702.77,"endTime":1706.76,"body":"saying that that is the thing"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1702.77,"endTime":1706.76,"body":"that sits underneath, and it"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1706.76,"endTime":1710.96,"body":"immediately prompts a question"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1706.76,"endTime":1710.96,"body":"for me, like, as you were"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1710.96,"endTime":1719.0,"body":"growing up, who, who gave you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1710.96,"endTime":1719.0,"body":"that? That experience of seeing"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1719.0,"endTime":1724.88,"body":"you in your magnificence and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1719.0,"endTime":1724.88,"body":"respect for your pain?"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1725.45,"endTime":1728.15,"body":"See, interesting question and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1725.45,"endTime":1728.15,"body":"did"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1737.6,"endTime":1741.95,"body":"I think it was only sort of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1737.6,"endTime":1741.95,"body":"under the surface, but I have a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1741.95,"endTime":1750.5,"body":"feeling that my father"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1741.95,"endTime":1750.5,"body":"understood me and saw who I was."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1751.97,"endTime":1757.43,"body":"Because I was like him in some"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1751.97,"endTime":1757.43,"body":"ways. You know, so after doing"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1757.43,"endTime":1762.65,"body":"scarer us in creating this"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1757.43,"endTime":1762.65,"body":"wonderful world, and, and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1762.65,"endTime":1764.87,"body":"knowing that that would have"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1762.65,"endTime":1764.87,"body":"been his, you know, he would"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1764.87,"endTime":1767.87,"body":"have wanted something like that."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1764.87,"endTime":1767.87,"body":"And I said to him, how do you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1767.87,"endTime":1772.28,"body":"feel? And my father was very"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1767.87,"endTime":1772.28,"body":"brilliant and creative, but also"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1772.49,"endTime":1776.39,"body":"very socially unskilled. He's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1772.49,"endTime":1776.39,"body":"probably add all the things we"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1776.39,"endTime":1781.07,"body":"didn't know about, you know, he"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1776.39,"endTime":1781.07,"body":"was he's probably hyper at, you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1781.07,"endTime":1784.7,"body":"know, all these things that stop"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1781.07,"endTime":1784.7,"body":"people from achieving what they"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1787.34,"endTime":1791.66,"body":"want to and I said, How do you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1787.34,"endTime":1791.66,"body":"feel that you couldn't fulfil"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1791.66,"endTime":1795.11,"body":"that great potential view as you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1791.66,"endTime":1795.11,"body":"said, Well, I feel okay, because"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1795.59,"endTime":1798.02,"body":"I feel like you've done it"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1795.59,"endTime":1798.02,"body":"because that's what I would have"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1798.02,"endTime":1802.64,"body":"liked to do. So I thought my"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1798.02,"endTime":1802.64,"body":"father I had something of the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1802.64,"endTime":1808.16,"body":"quality of going deep into the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1802.64,"endTime":1808.16,"body":"personal and the universal,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1808.37,"endTime":1812.72,"body":"especially the universal, I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1808.37,"endTime":1812.72,"body":"think he had that quality, but"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1812.72,"endTime":1817.64,"body":"it was never nourished in him."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1812.72,"endTime":1817.64,"body":"So it took it was only when he"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1817.64,"endTime":1824.18,"body":"was older that he started to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1817.64,"endTime":1824.18,"body":"understand himself better. So I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1824.18,"endTime":1828.23,"body":"think that might be, I remember"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1824.18,"endTime":1828.23,"body":"I had a cousin who's lap I used"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1828.23,"endTime":1832.13,"body":"to sit on. And I think that was"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1828.23,"endTime":1832.13,"body":"amazing that someone wanted me"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1832.13,"endTime":1835.64,"body":"to sit on their lap. My family"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1832.13,"endTime":1835.64,"body":"was difficult for me, because"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1836.33,"endTime":1840.11,"body":"because I had a sister that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1836.33,"endTime":1840.11,"body":"died, probably why was while I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1840.11,"endTime":1847.88,"body":"would, was just conceived, and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1840.11,"endTime":1847.88,"body":"therefore there was a feeling in"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1847.88,"endTime":1852.8,"body":"the family that things were not"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1847.88,"endTime":1852.8,"body":"right, and that I wasn't the one"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1852.8,"endTime":1858.95,"body":"they were waiting for, anyway,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1852.8,"endTime":1858.95,"body":"because I wasn't heard. I think"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1858.95,"endTime":1861.53,"body":"that now I didn't know it better"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1858.95,"endTime":1861.53,"body":"than"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1863.75,"endTime":1871.31,"body":"I was. There's an awful lot in"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1863.75,"endTime":1871.31,"body":"your book. So it's not again,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1871.31,"endTime":1875.03,"body":"which is immensely moving. And I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1871.31,"endTime":1875.03,"body":"have to say it, having read it,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1875.03,"endTime":1878.99,"body":"it gave me I felt like I had a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1875.03,"endTime":1878.99,"body":"much deeper understanding of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1878.99,"endTime":1887.36,"body":"where image work came from. And,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1878.99,"endTime":1887.36,"body":"and the source of, of what"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1887.36,"endTime":1890.66,"body":"you've just been talking about"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1887.36,"endTime":1890.66,"body":"in terms of respect for pain and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1890.66,"endTime":1898.22,"body":"magnificence. And, and you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1890.66,"endTime":1898.22,"body":"obviously, you know, and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1898.22,"endTime":1900.92,"body":"listening to what you said about"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1898.22,"endTime":1900.92,"body":"sort of searching for truth, you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1900.92,"endTime":1907.04,"body":"know, that that being a kind of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1900.92,"endTime":1907.04,"body":"mission that you went on. And"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1907.04,"endTime":1911.9,"body":"then this recognition that the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1907.04,"endTime":1911.9,"body":"truth actually sits inside it's,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1912.29,"endTime":1918.02,"body":"there's a as I say, this, I've"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1912.29,"endTime":1918.02,"body":"got I've got this image of this"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1918.02,"endTime":1921.86,"body":"map, this this kind of map of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1918.02,"endTime":1921.86,"body":"the world and watching so hard"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1921.86,"endTime":1925.43,"body":"kind of, you know, travelling,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1921.86,"endTime":1925.43,"body":"travelling around and doing this"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1925.46,"endTime":1932.33,"body":"inner world exploration as well"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1925.46,"endTime":1932.33,"body":"as the material world X. And you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1932.45,"endTime":1937.73,"body":"you talk really candidly about"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1932.45,"endTime":1937.73,"body":"your psychotic episode that you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1937.73,"endTime":1946.49,"body":"experienced in your 20s? And I'm"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1937.73,"endTime":1946.49,"body":"curious about what that taught"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1946.49,"endTime":1951.35,"body":"you about managing this"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1946.49,"endTime":1951.35,"body":"distinction between the image"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1951.35,"endTime":1955.61,"body":"world and the material world?"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1951.35,"endTime":1955.61,"body":"And how how to kind of hold"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1955.61,"endTime":1960.32,"body":"that, that delicate balance"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1955.61,"endTime":1960.32,"body":"between the two, to ensure that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1960.32,"endTime":1962.36,"body":"you get the most from both, I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1960.32,"endTime":1962.36,"body":"suppose."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1962.84,"endTime":1974.03,"body":"Yeah. So I think, for example,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1962.84,"endTime":1974.03,"body":"when I was in college, I had a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1974.03,"endTime":1978.83,"body":"professor who wanted us to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1974.03,"endTime":1978.83,"body":"explore our dreams. And so he"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1978.83,"endTime":1982.37,"body":"taught us a method, which was"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1978.83,"endTime":1982.37,"body":"very powerful if that you wake"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1982.37,"endTime":1985.88,"body":"up, but you try not to even open"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1982.37,"endTime":1985.88,"body":"your eyes, and with your eyes"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1985.88,"endTime":1992.51,"body":"closed, you write the dream"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1985.88,"endTime":1992.51,"body":"down. And as I lived, as I wrote"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1992.51,"endTime":1996.35,"body":"these dreams, I began to really"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1992.51,"endTime":1996.35,"body":"be involved with them, because I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1996.35,"endTime":1999.32,"body":"was started remembering them or"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1996.35,"endTime":1999.32,"body":"No, you really, it's a powerful"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1999.32,"endTime":2003.19,"body":"method. And then one day, I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1999.32,"endTime":2003.19,"body":"thought, Well, why do people"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2003.19,"endTime":2006.73,"body":"think that reality is more"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2003.19,"endTime":2006.73,"body":"important than the dream world?"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2007.27,"endTime":2009.79,"body":"It's just that there's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2007.27,"endTime":2009.79,"body":"continuity in the one and not"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2009.79,"endTime":2013.57,"body":"the other. But we spend a lot of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2009.79,"endTime":2013.57,"body":"time, you know, and I heard this"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2013.57,"endTime":2019.09,"body":"question. And I said, Oh, that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2013.57,"endTime":2019.09,"body":"if I believe that, I must be"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2019.09,"endTime":2025.06,"body":"crazy, you know. And I stopped,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2019.09,"endTime":2025.06,"body":"I didn't, I stopped doing it. I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2025.06,"endTime":2028.81,"body":"didn't hand in the paper, and so"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2025.06,"endTime":2028.81,"body":"on and so forth. So it was kind"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2028.81,"endTime":2031.45,"body":"of like that way madness lies"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2028.81,"endTime":2031.45,"body":"when you don't know the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2031.45,"endTime":2036.19,"body":"difference between and what I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2031.45,"endTime":2036.19,"body":"learned when I started working."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2036.37,"endTime":2038.92,"body":"And what happens if when you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2036.37,"endTime":2038.92,"body":"psychotic is you don't"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2038.92,"endTime":2043.42,"body":"distinguish between which things"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2038.92,"endTime":2043.42,"body":"are in the real world and which"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2043.42,"endTime":2049.33,"body":"things are, by your imagination,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2043.42,"endTime":2049.33,"body":"some of which is not for the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2049.33,"endTime":2052.36,"body":"reason people think, you know,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2049.33,"endTime":2052.36,"body":"it's some of which is because"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2052.36,"endTime":2056.77,"body":"you've lost your assumptions"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2052.36,"endTime":2056.77,"body":"about how things work. So for"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2056.77,"endTime":2062.53,"body":"example, I was hearing, as I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2056.77,"endTime":2062.53,"body":"said, to summon, the wall is"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2062.53,"endTime":2067.87,"body":"talking. Now that sounds crazy,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2062.53,"endTime":2067.87,"body":"but she walked up to the wall"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2068.44,"endTime":2073.45,"body":"and saw that there was a radio"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2068.44,"endTime":2073.45,"body":"and the and the, and the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2073.45,"endTime":2078.64,"body":"microphone was off the hook. So"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2073.45,"endTime":2078.64,"body":"the wall was talking, but a sane"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2078.64,"endTime":2083.2,"body":"person would have known was"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2078.64,"endTime":2083.2,"body":"Don't talk. But I thought it was"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2083.2,"endTime":2087.46,"body":"just as possible that was"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2083.2,"endTime":2087.46,"body":"talking down to you know, so"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2087.49,"endTime":2091.3,"body":"some of the reason is because I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2087.49,"endTime":2091.3,"body":"have lost all the assumptions"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2091.3,"endTime":2093.55,"body":"about what was right and what"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2091.3,"endTime":2093.55,"body":"was wrong, what was real and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2093.55,"endTime":2096.4,"body":"what wasn't real. But when I've"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2093.55,"endTime":2096.4,"body":"learned to work with the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2096.4,"endTime":2101.17,"body":"imagery, what I learned was that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2096.4,"endTime":2101.17,"body":"you have to hold it Two Worlds"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2102.76,"endTime":2109.03,"body":"separate and you can go into"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2102.76,"endTime":2109.03,"body":"the, into the, into the magical"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2109.81,"endTime":2116.59,"body":"image world. So I could say I'm"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2109.81,"endTime":2116.59,"body":"a tree, and I haven't got leaves"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2116.59,"endTime":2120.07,"body":"or fruit as I was saying"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2116.59,"endTime":2120.07,"body":"earlier, and I can absolutely be"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2120.07,"endTime":2125.56,"body":"that tree. But somewhere inside,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2120.07,"endTime":2125.56,"body":"I know that there's a real world"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2125.56,"endTime":2131.56,"body":"going on outside me. And that if"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2125.56,"endTime":2131.56,"body":"anything happened, I could go"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2131.56,"endTime":2136.72,"body":"back, I could, in an instant, I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2131.56,"endTime":2136.72,"body":"could leave the tree behind, and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2136.72,"endTime":2140.32,"body":"go back into the real world. And"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2136.72,"endTime":2140.32,"body":"then if I want to go back into"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2140.32,"endTime":2145.06,"body":"the tree, I can also leave the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2140.32,"endTime":2145.06,"body":"real world behind. But I know"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2145.06,"endTime":2151.45,"body":"that both are there. And I know,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2145.06,"endTime":2151.45,"body":"moreover, that I am experiencing"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2151.48,"endTime":2156.97,"body":"this world, not for its own"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2151.48,"endTime":2156.97,"body":"sake. But for the sake. I mean,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2156.97,"endTime":2161.41,"body":"it's a wonderful experience. But"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2156.97,"endTime":2161.41,"body":"that's not why I do it. I do it"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2161.44,"endTime":2166.93,"body":"in order to understand and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2161.44,"endTime":2166.93,"body":"enrich my everyday life, you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2166.93,"endTime":2172.24,"body":"know, my way of organising my"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2166.93,"endTime":2172.24,"body":"reality. So, if I just went, I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2172.24,"endTime":2175.69,"body":"have this wonderful experience"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2172.24,"endTime":2175.69,"body":"of trees, you know, for example,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2175.69,"endTime":2180.64,"body":"your your, your, your river,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2175.69,"endTime":2180.64,"body":"wonderful experience being a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2180.64,"endTime":2184.63,"body":"river, that it didn't stop"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2180.64,"endTime":2184.63,"body":"there, you knew that had a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2184.63,"endTime":2188.77,"body":"meaning for you, and that you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2184.63,"endTime":2188.77,"body":"were going to, and those"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2188.77,"endTime":2193.87,"body":"meanings that come from that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2188.77,"endTime":2193.87,"body":"change people's lives? You know,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2193.87,"endTime":2195.04,"body":"so, yeah,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2195.369,"endTime":2200.139,"body":"it's so two things come up for"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2195.369,"endTime":2200.139,"body":"me there. One is a really strong"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2200.139,"endTime":2204.819,"body":"sense that it's purposeful. You"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2200.139,"endTime":2204.819,"body":"know, when we enter into that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2204.819,"endTime":2208.629,"body":"world, it's purposeful. And"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2204.819,"endTime":2208.629,"body":"there's also all it feels like"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2208.629,"endTime":2211.539,"body":"there's something really"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2208.629,"endTime":2211.539,"body":"beautiful around the idea of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2211.569,"endTime":2215.829,"body":"it's also about suspension of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2211.569,"endTime":2215.829,"body":"disbelief, because that's part"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2215.829,"endTime":2219.339,"body":"of it, isn't it? Is this, the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2215.829,"endTime":2219.339,"body":"trust, trust in what you're"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2219.339,"endTime":2223.389,"body":"seeing trust and experience. So"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2219.339,"endTime":2223.389,"body":"away was on top of your mind,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2224.349,"endTime":2231.459,"body":"display, and simultaneously,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2224.349,"endTime":2231.459,"body":"suspension of belief, in in, in"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2231.459,"endTime":2235.179,"body":"all this stuff that you've been"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2231.459,"endTime":2235.179,"body":"fed through your life and all"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2235.179,"endTime":2237.939,"body":"this stuff that goes on in the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2235.179,"endTime":2237.939,"body":"material world,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2238.719,"endTime":2241.149,"body":"material world is still there,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2238.719,"endTime":2241.149,"body":"it's still"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2241.15,"endTime":2247.66,"body":"there. Tension suspension, of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2241.15,"endTime":2247.66,"body":"belief in the stories in the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2247.66,"endTime":2252.58,"body":"narrative that you might be"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2247.66,"endTime":2252.58,"body":"carrying? Yeah, so actually, and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2252.58,"endTime":2257.56,"body":"actually, that, for me, feels"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2252.58,"endTime":2257.56,"body":"really feels like that it feels"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2257.56,"endTime":2261.46,"body":"like you are in this sort of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2257.56,"endTime":2261.46,"body":"suspended place, or, you know,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2261.46,"endTime":2266.29,"body":"that kind of liminal space"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2261.46,"endTime":2266.29,"body":"where, where it's possible to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2266.29,"endTime":2268.6,"body":"see things differently. Yes."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2268.75,"endTime":2272.95,"body":"And if you are willing to say I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2268.75,"endTime":2272.95,"body":"want to give an example of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2272.98,"endTime":2277.36,"body":"people not being willing to So,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2272.98,"endTime":2277.36,"body":"for example, a very common image"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2277.36,"endTime":2281.05,"body":"people have. And we're talking"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2277.36,"endTime":2281.05,"body":"about images metaphor, there are"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2281.05,"endTime":2285.58,"body":"many other uses of imagery, but"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2281.05,"endTime":2285.58,"body":"the visioning and so on, but I'm"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2285.58,"endTime":2289.9,"body":"thinking of the man in honour"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2285.58,"endTime":2289.9,"body":"course, I was teaching at a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2289.9,"endTime":2295.66,"body":"business who had this image of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2289.9,"endTime":2295.66,"body":"being a lion in a cage, and it's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2295.66,"endTime":2301.42,"body":"very common image. And always,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2295.66,"endTime":2301.42,"body":"there's either the doors really"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2301.42,"endTime":2305.11,"body":"open or there's a key or it's a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2301.42,"endTime":2305.11,"body":"little bit like in Barnard"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2305.11,"endTime":2308.62,"body":"people think they're trapped,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2305.11,"endTime":2308.62,"body":"but they are in trapped. So"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2310.0,"endTime":2313.9,"body":"always, there's a way out of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2310.0,"endTime":2313.9,"body":"that I have never experienced"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2313.9,"endTime":2316.99,"body":"anybody who's in a cage, and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2313.9,"endTime":2316.99,"body":"they don't find a way out. But"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2316.99,"endTime":2321.97,"body":"this particular man was the only"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2316.99,"endTime":2321.97,"body":"person I ever saw, who asked the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2322.0,"endTime":2331.39,"body":"lion went out of the cage, and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2322.0,"endTime":2331.39,"body":"then fell asleep. So he didn't"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2331.39,"endTime":2338.56,"body":"want to explore that world. And"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2331.39,"endTime":2338.56,"body":"this man complained about me in"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2338.56,"endTime":2342.73,"body":"that business, I don't even know"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2338.56,"endTime":2342.73,"body":"what he said, but he complained"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2342.73,"endTime":2346.57,"body":"about me, because he thought I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2342.73,"endTime":2346.57,"body":"was obviously thought I was"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2346.57,"endTime":2356.17,"body":"dangerous. And so he refused to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2346.57,"endTime":2356.17,"body":"follow through. He didn't go"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2356.17,"endTime":2359.98,"body":"back into the cage, he just fell"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2356.17,"endTime":2359.98,"body":"asleep. So you know, we often"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2359.98,"endTime":2364.18,"body":"say to people don't go back to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2359.98,"endTime":2364.18,"body":"sleep. And that means don't go"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2364.18,"endTime":2369.61,"body":"back into you chose the liberal"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2364.18,"endTime":2369.61,"body":"lack of awareness that you've"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2369.61,"endTime":2377.26,"body":"chosen, you know, and, and it's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2369.61,"endTime":2377.26,"body":"also true that when you say"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2377.26,"endTime":2381.13,"body":"doing visioning of the future,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2377.26,"endTime":2381.13,"body":"and you get an image of the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2381.13,"endTime":2386.26,"body":"future, again, you need to as"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2381.13,"endTime":2386.26,"body":"you talk about this suspension"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2386.26,"endTime":2393.58,"body":"of disbelief, you need to forget"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2386.26,"endTime":2393.58,"body":"what you want. Because if you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2394.33,"endTime":2397.87,"body":"and the way I do it, I have"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2394.33,"endTime":2397.87,"body":"people picture a positive future"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2397.87,"endTime":2401.68,"body":"and a negative future. Be"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2397.87,"endTime":2401.68,"body":"Because I'm wanting to see what"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2401.68,"endTime":2404.92,"body":"will take them down the pathway,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2401.68,"endTime":2404.92,"body":"they don't want to go down and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2404.92,"endTime":2409.0,"body":"what will it take, help them get"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2404.92,"endTime":2409.0,"body":"where they really want to be."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2409.69,"endTime":2417.61,"body":"And and if you're stuck on"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2409.69,"endTime":2417.61,"body":"saying, I want to see this, you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2417.61,"endTime":2422.62,"body":"know, I want to a future where I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2417.61,"endTime":2422.62,"body":"have this boyfriend or I have"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2422.62,"endTime":2426.34,"body":"this amount of money or I have"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2422.62,"endTime":2426.34,"body":"this house or whatever, then you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2426.34,"endTime":2429.94,"body":"haven't got the freedom to find"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2426.34,"endTime":2429.94,"body":"out what would really make you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2429.94,"endTime":2435.37,"body":"happy. So again, when you're"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2429.94,"endTime":2435.37,"body":"going into the future, you need"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2435.37,"endTime":2440.92,"body":"to forget everything you want,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2435.37,"endTime":2440.92,"body":"which part of you wants your"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2440.92,"endTime":2447.04,"body":"your conscious, rational mind"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2440.92,"endTime":2447.04,"body":"wants, and just say, let me see"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2447.04,"endTime":2452.8,"body":"what the rest of me has to say."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2447.04,"endTime":2452.8,"body":"And then we find out that, for"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2452.8,"endTime":2457.12,"body":"example, if I'm running the be"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2452.8,"endTime":2457.12,"body":"running costs and thinking, what"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2457.12,"endTime":2460.81,"body":"I want is for people to learn as"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2457.12,"endTime":2460.81,"body":"much as possible. And then I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2460.81,"endTime":2465.13,"body":"would say, Well, I would do the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2460.81,"endTime":2465.13,"body":"exercise, because I do my own"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2465.13,"endTime":2468.22,"body":"exercise, that's really"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2465.13,"endTime":2468.22,"body":"important. And I say it's the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2468.22,"endTime":2471.55,"body":"end of the group, and I feel"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2468.22,"endTime":2471.55,"body":"awful, what's the awful feeling,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2471.7,"endTime":2474.7,"body":"I'm exhausted, and so is"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2471.7,"endTime":2474.7,"body":"everybody else, because we're"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2474.7,"endTime":2479.71,"body":"all trying to learn what we"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2474.7,"endTime":2479.71,"body":"everything there is to know, you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2479.71,"endTime":2483.82,"body":"know. And then I say, well, the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2479.71,"endTime":2483.82,"body":"past of the future, at the end"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2483.82,"endTime":2486.61,"body":"of the group, and I feel great,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2483.82,"endTime":2486.61,"body":"what's the feeling, I feel so"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2486.61,"endTime":2490.9,"body":"relaxed, and we've connected to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2486.61,"endTime":2490.9,"body":"each other. And that's how the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2490.9,"endTime":2495.34,"body":"learning came. So the thing I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2490.9,"endTime":2495.34,"body":"thought was, my goal would have"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2495.34,"endTime":2500.5,"body":"made me unhappy. And the thing"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2495.34,"endTime":2500.5,"body":"that I wasn't conscious of, was"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2500.5,"endTime":2504.7,"body":"when I needed the connection."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2500.5,"endTime":2504.7,"body":"And that has also informed a lot"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2504.7,"endTime":2509.89,"body":"of my work with people because I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2504.7,"endTime":2509.89,"body":"always start with the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2509.89,"endTime":2513.73,"body":"connection. Because I realised"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2509.89,"endTime":2513.73,"body":"that if people are not in"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2513.73,"endTime":2517.42,"body":"connection, they're not going to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2513.73,"endTime":2517.42,"body":"be able to go deep into them"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2517.48,"endTime":2521.26,"body":"into their, into their inner"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2517.48,"endTime":2521.26,"body":"life, they need to know that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2521.35,"endTime":2525.55,"body":"people need to know their"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2521.35,"endTime":2525.55,"body":"Harold. So I can teach you 1000"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2525.55,"endTime":2529.87,"body":"things, it won't go deep. But if"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2525.55,"endTime":2529.87,"body":"I say to you, I'm here for you."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2532.12,"endTime":2536.5,"body":"I've got your back. Would you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2532.12,"endTime":2536.5,"body":"like to find out what's going on"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2536.5,"endTime":2542.74,"body":"for you, then something"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2536.5,"endTime":2542.74,"body":"different happens. And"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2542.799,"endTime":2551.859,"body":"in those words, speaks volumes"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2542.799,"endTime":2551.859,"body":"of compassion. Yeah. You know, I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2551.859,"endTime":2559.089,"body":"think that you know, without"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2551.859,"endTime":2559.089,"body":"that, it's almost like the the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2559.089,"endTime":2563.589,"body":"kind of, you know, the sort of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2559.089,"endTime":2563.589,"body":"cradle that that holds us."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2565.869,"endTime":2570.369,"body":"Without that, then it's very"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2565.869,"endTime":2570.369,"body":"hard for us to let go enough to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2570.369,"endTime":2573.939,"body":"be able to allow change to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2570.369,"endTime":2573.939,"body":"happen, because we're still"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2573.969,"endTime":2576.489,"body":"we're so sort of rigidly stuck."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2577.57,"endTime":2583.45,"body":"Yeah. And I'd say the compassion"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2577.57,"endTime":2583.45,"body":"is also held in the connection,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2583.6,"endTime":2586.99,"body":"I think the word connection is"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2583.6,"endTime":2586.99,"body":"very important. And I, for"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2586.99,"endTime":2593.98,"body":"example, I've just had a client,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2586.99,"endTime":2593.98,"body":"who, when I had a sense of her,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2593.98,"endTime":2600.85,"body":"I had this image of her standing"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2593.98,"endTime":2600.85,"body":"outside the room, which was a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2601.03,"endTime":2604.99,"body":"real, it just came to me is what"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2601.03,"endTime":2604.99,"body":"I call tuning in, get a sense of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2604.99,"endTime":2609.04,"body":"something that but it turned out"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2604.99,"endTime":2609.04,"body":"to really happen. A mother was"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2609.04,"endTime":2613.78,"body":"holding her sister. And both of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2609.04,"endTime":2613.78,"body":"them are close to each other and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2613.78,"endTime":2618.94,"body":"looking at her accusingly."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2613.78,"endTime":2618.94,"body":"Because somehow it was her fault"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2619.03,"endTime":2623.47,"body":"that they felt the way they"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2619.03,"endTime":2623.47,"body":"felt. And she was left out and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2623.47,"endTime":2629.17,"body":"accused. So she says when she"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2623.47,"endTime":2629.17,"body":"tries to connect to somebody,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2629.2,"endTime":2633.52,"body":"and they close down, don't"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2629.2,"endTime":2633.52,"body":"connect, she hasn't got a way of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2633.52,"endTime":2640.27,"body":"counteracting those awful"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2633.52,"endTime":2640.27,"body":"feelings she had at the time,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2640.36,"endTime":2643.18,"body":"but the minute she feels a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2640.36,"endTime":2643.18,"body":"connection, and that someone"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2643.33,"endTime":2648.91,"body":"knows who she is, then they melt"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2643.33,"endTime":2648.91,"body":"away. And so she's working on"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2649.18,"endTime":2655.15,"body":"finding a way not to be so"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2649.18,"endTime":2655.15,"body":"dependent on somebody who might"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2655.15,"endTime":2658.54,"body":"not be able to connect, you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2655.15,"endTime":2658.54,"body":"know, but the point is that by"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2658.54,"endTime":2665.83,"body":"nature, the minute you connect"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2658.54,"endTime":2665.83,"body":"to someone and feel kinship,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2668.05,"endTime":2669.31,"body":"everything is different."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2670.119,"endTime":2674.019,"body":"And that that speaks to me of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2670.119,"endTime":2674.019,"body":"that connection was self, you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2674.019,"endTime":2679.899,"body":"know, with a capital S and, you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2674.019,"endTime":2679.899,"body":"know, because when certainly in"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2679.929,"endTime":2686.109,"body":"my own journey, it was it was"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2679.929,"endTime":2686.109,"body":"that that I think saved me was"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2686.169,"endTime":2694.779,"body":"this realisation that inside me."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2686.169,"endTime":2694.779,"body":"There is this sort of immense"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2694.779,"endTime":2699.969,"body":"well of love that I can draw on"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2694.779,"endTime":2699.969,"body":"forever and it will never, ever"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2699.999,"endTime":2704.799,"body":"A run dry, makes me quite"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2699.999,"endTime":2704.799,"body":"emotional saying that because"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2705.249,"endTime":2708.969,"body":"it's meaningful. But this in"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2705.249,"endTime":2708.969,"body":"this sense, that's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2708.969,"endTime":2712.989,"body":"something everybody knows. I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2708.969,"endTime":2712.989,"body":"would say most people don't know"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2712.989,"endTime":2718.149,"body":"that. No. And a lot of the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2712.989,"endTime":2718.149,"body":"spiritual traditions are about"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2718.689,"endTime":2724.809,"body":"reminding people that, yeah, but"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2718.689,"endTime":2724.809,"body":"but that would have saved you. I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2724.809,"endTime":2725.439,"body":"can imagine"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2725.47,"endTime":2732.85,"body":"it. I mean, it really did. It"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2725.47,"endTime":2732.85,"body":"really did. And, and my sense is"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2733.66,"endTime":2739.45,"body":"that, that's also possibly part"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2733.66,"endTime":2739.45,"body":"of what saved you, as well, was"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2739.45,"endTime":2746.05,"body":"this, this sense of that? That"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2739.45,"endTime":2746.05,"body":"deep inner connection with self?"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2753.76,"endTime":2759.76,"body":"Whenever I got stuck in having"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2753.76,"endTime":2759.76,"body":"just the external world, I went"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2759.76,"endTime":2768.13,"body":"a bit crazy. I sort of had to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2759.76,"endTime":2768.13,"body":"have an inner world that made"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2768.13,"endTime":2773.29,"body":"sense of the outer world, I had"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2768.13,"endTime":2773.29,"body":"to have that. And when I lost"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2773.29,"endTime":2776.11,"body":"that connection, I got too"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2773.29,"endTime":2776.11,"body":"involved in the external world."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2777.46,"endTime":2780.73,"body":"You know, for example,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2777.46,"endTime":2780.73,"body":"something's going wrong. And I'm"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2780.73,"endTime":2785.29,"body":"gonna nuts do this goes on, and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2780.73,"endTime":2785.29,"body":"that's good. And I'm never going"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2785.29,"endTime":2790.99,"body":"to find the answer out there."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2785.29,"endTime":2790.99,"body":"But when I go back inside, and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2790.99,"endTime":2793.51,"body":"maybe I get an image from"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2790.99,"endTime":2793.51,"body":"myself, or maybe I'll just"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2793.51,"endTime":2799.27,"body":"settle in myself or whatever."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2793.51,"endTime":2799.27,"body":"And I trust that there is a way"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2799.27,"endTime":2804.79,"body":"through, I suddenly say, oh,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2799.27,"endTime":2804.79,"body":"yeah, I have to do this or that."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2804.91,"endTime":2810.07,"body":"But I can't do it. Just in the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2804.91,"endTime":2810.07,"body":"external world, I think some"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2810.07,"endTime":2814.06,"body":"people can think some people are"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2810.07,"endTime":2814.06,"body":"better at that than me. But I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2814.06,"endTime":2820.27,"body":"always have to go back inside."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2814.06,"endTime":2820.27,"body":"Or have that possibility of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2820.27,"endTime":2824.17,"body":"going inside. When things are"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2820.27,"endTime":2824.17,"body":"really troubling in the external"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2824.17,"endTime":2830.05,"body":"world, I have to find my way"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2824.17,"endTime":2830.05,"body":"through the meanings rather than"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2830.05,"endTime":2832.18,"body":"the, the external story."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2834.1,"endTime":2840.97,"body":"And I think that's what it what"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2834.1,"endTime":2840.97,"body":"you're what you've created"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2840.97,"endTime":2849.85,"body":"through image work, and the way"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2840.97,"endTime":2849.85,"body":"it can be used and applied. is,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2851.14,"endTime":2855.55,"body":"you know, is is the beauty"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2851.14,"endTime":2855.55,"body":"within it is that it is so"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2855.55,"endTime":2860.26,"body":"accessible, because often, what"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2855.55,"endTime":2860.26,"body":"we're talking about feels very"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2860.32,"endTime":2865.45,"body":"esoteric, it feels nebulous, it"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2860.32,"endTime":2865.45,"body":"feels Oh, that's for other"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2865.45,"endTime":2870.64,"body":"people. But I mean, even in, in"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2865.45,"endTime":2870.64,"body":"the short time that I've been,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2870.85,"endTime":2874.6,"body":"like consciously using what I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2870.85,"endTime":2874.6,"body":"now called Image work, as"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2874.6,"endTime":2878.65,"body":"opposed to sort of naturally"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2874.6,"endTime":2878.65,"body":"using some elements of it,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2878.65,"endTime":2884.2,"body":"because they felt useful for me"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2878.65,"endTime":2884.2,"body":"before before I started sort of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2884.2,"endTime":2892.06,"body":"studying with you. I see the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2884.2,"endTime":2892.06,"body":"application of it across thanks."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2892.93,"endTime":2895.84,"body":"I don't think I've got a client"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2892.93,"endTime":2895.84,"body":"that I haven't used some aspect"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2895.84,"endTime":2900.67,"body":"of image work with, because,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2895.84,"endTime":2900.67,"body":"because it's because it's so"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2900.67,"endTime":2901.63,"body":"accessible."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2902.53,"endTime":2905.74,"body":"So which are the, if you think"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2902.53,"endTime":2905.74,"body":"about these different clients,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2906.55,"endTime":2908.83,"body":"what are the different ways"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2906.55,"endTime":2908.83,"body":"you've used it? Because that's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2909.04,"endTime":2915.85,"body":"quite interesting to hear. So"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2909.04,"endTime":2915.85,"body":"often,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2916.0,"endTime":2922.0,"body":"it will be the simplicity of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2916.0,"endTime":2922.0,"body":"noticing some of their language,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2922.12,"endTime":2927.67,"body":"and then just say, okay, so what"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2922.12,"endTime":2927.67,"body":"image does that conjure up for"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2927.67,"endTime":2931.0,"body":"you and, and then kind of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2927.67,"endTime":2931.0,"body":"exploring the image just sort of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2931.0,"endTime":2937.24,"body":"in the moment in that way, but"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2931.0,"endTime":2937.24,"body":"also doing some of the longer"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2937.24,"endTime":2942.58,"body":"exercises, the various sort of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2937.24,"endTime":2942.58,"body":"focused exercises. I think what"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2942.58,"endTime":2947.23,"body":"I've found, tends to come up"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2942.58,"endTime":2947.23,"body":"more than anything is other"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2947.23,"endTime":2956.08,"body":"relational ones. So whether that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2947.23,"endTime":2956.08,"body":"is in a child or saying goodbye,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2956.11,"endTime":2960.76,"body":"saying hello, sort of relational"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2956.11,"endTime":2960.76,"body":"ones, where people are actually"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2960.79,"endTime":2964.33,"body":"connecting with someone where"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2960.79,"endTime":2964.33,"body":"they've got difficulty and being"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2964.33,"endTime":2967.69,"body":"able to resolve that difficulty"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2964.33,"endTime":2967.69,"body":"with someone who's living or"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2967.69,"endTime":2977.8,"body":"dead. And also around where"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2967.69,"endTime":2977.8,"body":"people are stuck at crossroads,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2977.83,"endTime":2981.22,"body":"you know, and so often it's that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2977.83,"endTime":2981.22,"body":"language that comes up and it's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2981.25,"endTime":2984.85,"body":"you know, people will literally"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2981.25,"endTime":2984.85,"body":"people use visual language all"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2984.85,"endTime":2992.02,"body":"the time as well my alertness to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2984.85,"endTime":2992.02,"body":"that is so heightened now. And"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2992.05,"endTime":2997.12,"body":"you know, and how there's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2992.05,"endTime":2997.12,"body":"something about your the way"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2997.12,"endTime":3003.75,"body":"that you have recognised that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2997.12,"endTime":3003.75,"body":"it's okay to explore the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3003.75,"endTime":3008.91,"body":"negative future or the negative,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3003.75,"endTime":3008.91,"body":"past negative inverted commas."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3009.36,"endTime":3014.1,"body":"And as well as the positive,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3009.36,"endTime":3014.1,"body":"because in order to open up"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3014.1,"endTime":3017.73,"body":"people's awareness of what all"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3014.1,"endTime":3017.73,"body":"the options are, and to stop"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3017.73,"endTime":3020.76,"body":"people getting stuck in what"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3017.73,"endTime":3020.76,"body":"they think they should be doing,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3022.23,"endTime":3025.26,"body":"that I've found to be really"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3022.23,"endTime":3025.26,"body":"helpful, particularly when"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3025.26,"endTime":3029.19,"body":"somebody is at the crossroads,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3025.26,"endTime":3029.19,"body":"and they're, you know, exploring"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3029.19,"endTime":3031.71,"body":"kind of different options that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3029.19,"endTime":3031.71,"body":"are open to them."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3033.659,"endTime":3037.319,"body":"I'll tell the story at the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3033.659,"endTime":3037.319,"body":"beginning of my most recent and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3037.829,"endTime":3045.029,"body":"my last book. imager, which is"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3037.829,"endTime":3045.029,"body":"is teaching material to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3045.029,"endTime":3051.059,"body":"practitioners, that how I came"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3045.029,"endTime":3051.059,"body":"to write that book was, it was"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3051.059,"endTime":3058.289,"body":"the, it was, it was COVID,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3051.059,"endTime":3058.289,"body":"locked down. And I just didn't"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3058.499,"endTime":3061.739,"body":"know what I was going to do with"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3058.499,"endTime":3061.739,"body":"my life, it didn't feel like"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3061.769,"endTime":3065.729,"body":"anything made any sense anymore,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3061.769,"endTime":3065.729,"body":"because everything I had"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3065.729,"endTime":3073.229,"body":"believed, we'd all believe was"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3065.729,"endTime":3073.229,"body":"normal. Was, was disrupted in"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3073.229,"endTime":3079.439,"body":"this in this surrealistic way."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3073.229,"endTime":3079.439,"body":"And, and I couldn't imagine"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3079.439,"endTime":3082.529,"body":"writing a book I had thought"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3079.439,"endTime":3082.529,"body":"about reading before, but how"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3082.529,"endTime":3084.749,"body":"could you read a book who's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3082.529,"endTime":3084.749,"body":"going to read a book, you know,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3084.749,"endTime":3090.149,"body":"it's like, we're in this amazing"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3084.749,"endTime":3090.149,"body":"situation. And so I took my own"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3091.139,"endTime":3099.989,"body":"was actually a CD. And the CDs"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3091.139,"endTime":3099.989,"body":"are coming back again. And I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3099.989,"endTime":3105.539,"body":"played this future exercise, and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3099.989,"endTime":3105.539,"body":"I did the negative future. First"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3105.569,"endTime":3110.009,"body":"and the negative future, I found"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3105.569,"endTime":3110.009,"body":"myself unable to breathe,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3110.039,"endTime":3114.179,"body":"because I was so ashamed. And"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3110.039,"endTime":3114.179,"body":"because I felt I'd wasted the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3114.179,"endTime":3117.719,"body":"year I'd achieved nothing, I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3114.179,"endTime":3117.719,"body":"created nothing, I had just"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3117.719,"endTime":3121.409,"body":"wasted my time. I suppose for"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3117.719,"endTime":3121.409,"body":"me, when I don't create"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3121.439,"endTime":3128.219,"body":"anything, you know, it feels"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3121.439,"endTime":3128.219,"body":"like a waste. And the positive"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3128.219,"endTime":3136.109,"body":"future. I was holding this book."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3128.219,"endTime":3136.109,"body":"And the thing that that exercise"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3136.109,"endTime":3140.069,"body":"stayed with the positive future"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3136.109,"endTime":3140.069,"body":"told me what I wanted, but it"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3140.069,"endTime":3143.159,"body":"was the negative future that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3140.069,"endTime":3143.159,"body":"frightened the hell out of me."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3144.059,"endTime":3149.459,"body":"And made me realise that I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3144.059,"endTime":3149.459,"body":"couldn't just sit around and do"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3149.459,"endTime":3153.239,"body":"nothing. Because the world had"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3149.459,"endTime":3153.239,"body":"changed, because I was gonna end"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3153.239,"endTime":3157.499,"body":"up unable to breathe. You know,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3153.239,"endTime":3157.499,"body":"that was quite, it was actually"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3157.499,"endTime":3162.239,"body":"physically, I thought, I can't"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3157.499,"endTime":3162.239,"body":"breathe, you know, that was the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3162.239,"endTime":3167.699,"body":"week how real the image was. And"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3162.239,"endTime":3167.699,"body":"so I started, I started on the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3168.209,"endTime":3172.619,"body":"proposal the next day, and I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3168.209,"endTime":3172.619,"body":"wrote that book. That year, I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3172.619,"endTime":3178.349,"body":"was here in Italy, and it was"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3172.619,"endTime":3178.349,"body":"the year of COVID, and markdown."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3178.499,"endTime":3182.999,"body":"And that's when I read the book,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3178.499,"endTime":3182.999,"body":"because I knew I had to, because"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3182.999,"endTime":3187.139,"body":"I'd seen the two futures and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3182.999,"endTime":3187.139,"body":"I've had only done the positive"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3187.139,"endTime":3192.419,"body":"future. I don't know whether"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3187.139,"endTime":3192.419,"body":"that would have been enough. I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3192.419,"endTime":3195.929,"body":"think it wouldn't have been,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3192.419,"endTime":3195.929,"body":"because yes, that's a good idea."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3195.959,"endTime":3200.099,"body":"So what but yes, it's a good"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3195.959,"endTime":3200.099,"body":"idea, but if I don't, there'll"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3200.099,"endTime":3201.659,"body":"be hell to pay you know."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3206.429,"endTime":3213.299,"body":"I ran just before Christmas, I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3206.429,"endTime":3213.299,"body":"ran an event here at our farm in"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3213.329,"endTime":3221.939,"body":"Herefordshire. And we did the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3213.329,"endTime":3221.939,"body":"space and timeship exercise so I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3221.939,"endTime":3227.099,"body":"had 1010 people here, which was"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3221.939,"endTime":3227.099,"body":"the exercise I've done which is"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3227.099,"endTime":3232.739,"body":"the same exercise and and as you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3227.099,"endTime":3232.739,"body":"end and as you say, sort of as a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3232.739,"endTime":3235.979,"body":"practitioner you're also you're"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3232.739,"endTime":3235.979,"body":"doing the the exercise with the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3235.979,"endTime":3238.829,"body":"people that you're working with"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3235.979,"endTime":3238.829,"body":"you're particularly thinking"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3238.829,"endTime":3243.059,"body":"that group environment and and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3238.829,"endTime":3243.059,"body":"when we were talking about how"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3243.059,"endTime":3246.569,"body":"far ahead in the future are you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3243.059,"endTime":3246.569,"body":"going to take your space and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3246.569,"endTime":3253.259,"body":"time ship out of my mouth came"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3246.569,"endTime":3253.259,"body":"30 years 53 And I will say"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3253.799,"endTime":3257.429,"body":"that's a long way into the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3253.799,"endTime":3257.429,"body":"future but okay, that's what"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3257.429,"endTime":3265.889,"body":"came up so and that negative"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3257.429,"endTime":3265.889,"body":"future image that is not"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3265.889,"endTime":3270.599,"body":"something I I want to be moving"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3265.889,"endTime":3270.599,"body":"towards so I very much"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3273.03,"endTime":3274.11,"body":"where you're gonna keep that."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3274.38,"endTime":3281.04,"body":"Well. I was shuffling around"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3274.38,"endTime":3281.04,"body":"here I was at the farm shuffling"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3281.04,"endTime":3285.36,"body":"about the house had fallen into"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3281.04,"endTime":3285.36,"body":"complete disrepair. I was living"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3285.36,"endTime":3290.82,"body":"in the kitchen sort of on a kind"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3285.36,"endTime":3290.82,"body":"of pallet sleeping on a pallet"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3290.85,"endTime":3293.01,"body":"in front of the Argo, which"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3290.85,"endTime":3293.01,"body":"actually, to me sounds quite"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3293.01,"endTime":3297.15,"body":"nice, but you know, but it was"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3293.01,"endTime":3297.15,"body":"all really grubby and I mean"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3297.15,"endTime":3302.91,"body":"like completely fallen apart and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3297.15,"endTime":3302.91,"body":"physically I was, I was dressed"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3302.91,"endTime":3311.82,"body":"in really grubby, like food"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3302.91,"endTime":3311.82,"body":"stained, dirty clothes. 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And I was"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3338.43,"endTime":3342.57,"body":"sitting at a table just there"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3342.57,"endTime":3349.32,"body":"looking out of the window,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3342.57,"endTime":3349.32,"body":"writing a book. And I had to,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3349.53,"endTime":3353.64,"body":"there were two people here who"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3349.53,"endTime":3353.64,"body":"were kind of working with me in"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3353.64,"endTime":3356.07,"body":"some way, I wasn't quite sure"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3353.64,"endTime":3356.07,"body":"kind of what their jobs were."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3356.34,"endTime":3359.91,"body":"And Tom was pushing a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3356.34,"endTime":3359.91,"body":"wheelbarrow, somewhere up the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3359.91,"endTime":3368.34,"body":"garden. And there was a big tent"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3359.91,"endTime":3368.34,"body":"in one of the fields with other"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3368.34,"endTime":3372.99,"body":"people running an image work,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3368.34,"endTime":3372.99,"body":"exercise."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3373.469,"endTime":3376.559,"body":"And could you see because one of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3373.469,"endTime":3376.559,"body":"the important things about this"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3376.559,"endTime":3382.769,"body":"is to see the difference. What"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3376.559,"endTime":3382.769,"body":"got you What did you have to do?"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3382.889,"endTime":3387.119,"body":"Or what attitude was was it that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3382.889,"endTime":3387.119,"body":"brought you to the negative"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3387.119,"endTime":3388.799,"body":"future and what brought you to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3390.06,"endTime":3397.32,"body":"self belief brought me to the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3390.06,"endTime":3397.32,"body":"positive face actually face"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3397.35,"endTime":3401.25,"body":"facing what we're creating. And"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3397.35,"endTime":3401.25,"body":"the negative future when the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3401.25,"endTime":3405.36,"body":"negative future was I gave up"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3401.25,"endTime":3405.36,"body":"hope. So you gave"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3405.359,"endTime":3410.939,"body":"her Pokemon hope deserted? You"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3405.359,"endTime":3410.939,"body":"can give it up without giving"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3410.939,"endTime":3418.169,"body":"you up? I suppose. So you know"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3410.939,"endTime":3418.169,"body":"what? You have to do them? Yeah."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3419.34,"endTime":3427.62,"body":"Yeah, keep the faith. Ah, Dana"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3419.34,"endTime":3427.62,"body":"Zophar."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3431.79,"endTime":3436.17,"body":"done so hard, because I was my"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3431.79,"endTime":3436.17,"body":"birth name. And it means shining"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3436.17,"endTime":3441.9,"body":"light. And it's the main book of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3436.17,"endTime":3441.9,"body":"the Kabbalah, which is the book"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3441.9,"endTime":3445.74,"body":"of esoteric wisdom. But I was"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3441.9,"endTime":3445.74,"body":"given that at birth, and I was"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3445.74,"endTime":3448.35,"body":"never called that because I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3445.74,"endTime":3448.35,"body":"thought it was, it seemed to be"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3448.35,"endTime":3452.64,"body":"such a weird name. My middle"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3448.35,"endTime":3452.64,"body":"name was Diane. And then that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3452.64,"endTime":3456.12,"body":"got translated into Hebrew form,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3452.64,"endTime":3456.12,"body":"which was Deena and I was called"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3456.12,"endTime":3462.27,"body":"Gina most of my life. And my"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3456.12,"endTime":3462.27,"body":"books are all under the name"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3462.27,"endTime":3467.34,"body":"Gina. But at about age 67, I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3462.27,"endTime":3467.34,"body":"have to go back to my birth"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3467.34,"endTime":3471.87,"body":"name, which is actually very"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3467.34,"endTime":3471.87,"body":"confusing, because, you know, if"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3471.87,"endTime":3478.47,"body":"you have everybody singing You"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3471.87,"endTime":3478.47,"body":"Happy Birthday. 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And"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3495.33,"endTime":3496.62,"body":"yeah, I will, I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3496.62,"endTime":3499.26,"body":"will share, I'll share links."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3496.62,"endTime":3499.26,"body":"And I think the other thing as"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3499.26,"endTime":3505.92,"body":"well, just to say is that you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3499.26,"endTime":3505.92,"body":"are running the diploma again,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3506.07,"endTime":3509.73,"body":"next year. So the course that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3506.07,"endTime":3509.73,"body":"I've been studying with you?"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3510.119,"endTime":3515.639,"body":"Yes, yes, yes. And I'm looking"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3510.119,"endTime":3515.639,"body":"forward to anyone who's a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3515.639,"endTime":3519.509,"body":"practitioner, who, who would"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3515.639,"endTime":3519.509,"body":"like to learn about how to use"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3519.509,"endTime":3525.299,"body":"imagery in their work, which, as"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3519.509,"endTime":3525.299,"body":"you have said, is invaluable."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3525.779,"endTime":3530.099,"body":"And if you go onto my website,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3525.779,"endTime":3530.099,"body":"which is very simply Jean"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3530.099,"endTime":3534.059,"body":"berman.com, and look under the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3530.099,"endTime":3534.059,"body":"courses, you'll find that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3534.059,"endTime":3539.039,"body":"diploma course and everything"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3534.059,"endTime":3539.039,"body":"you need to know. So if any of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3539.039,"endTime":3544.889,"body":"you listening, are inspired,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3539.039,"endTime":3544.889,"body":"please just look at my website"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3544.889,"endTime":3546.149,"body":"and see how it sounds to you."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3546.81,"endTime":3550.2,"body":"And, you know, from my"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3546.81,"endTime":3550.2,"body":"experience, I think it's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3550.2,"endTime":3554.34,"body":"invaluable in for practitioners"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3550.2,"endTime":3554.34,"body":"in terms of deepening the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3554.34,"endTime":3558.69,"body":"support and Brett and adding"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3554.34,"endTime":3558.69,"body":"Brett's I suppose to their"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3558.69,"endTime":3563.31,"body":"toolkit in the way that they can"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3558.69,"endTime":3563.31,"body":"support clients and, and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3563.31,"endTime":3567.54,"body":"themselves as well, because, you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3563.31,"endTime":3567.54,"body":"know, gosh, I have been on a bit"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3567.54,"endTime":3572.1,"body":"of a journey, as you know,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3567.54,"endTime":3572.1,"body":"through this process."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3572.13,"endTime":3576.36,"body":"Yes. I think that's the part of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3572.13,"endTime":3576.36,"body":"this compassion thing, I think"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3576.36,"endTime":3580.02,"body":"is that as I say that people"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3576.36,"endTime":3580.02,"body":"don't use exercises you haven't"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3580.02,"endTime":3585.24,"body":"tried on yourself first, because"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3580.02,"endTime":3585.24,"body":"otherwise you will see them kind"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3585.24,"endTime":3589.2,"body":"of a little bit at one removed"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3585.24,"endTime":3589.2,"body":"like you're a little bit"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3589.23,"endTime":3595.05,"body":"superior. But once you've been"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3589.23,"endTime":3595.05,"body":"through how yourself you know,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3595.08,"endTime":3598.32,"body":"maybe, but once you've been"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3595.08,"endTime":3598.32,"body":"through the experience, then"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3598.32,"endTime":3602.58,"body":"you're then you've got that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3598.32,"endTime":3602.58,"body":"kinship with them as they go"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3602.58,"endTime":3605.43,"body":"through it. And I'm sure you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3602.58,"endTime":3605.43,"body":"have that with your clients this"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3605.43,"endTime":3608.01,"body":"feeling, you know, we're all in"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3605.43,"endTime":3608.01,"body":"this together."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3609.63,"endTime":3614.13,"body":"And gosh, I mean, what a lovely"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3609.63,"endTime":3614.13,"body":"phrase to close on, actually,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3614.25,"endTime":3617.16,"body":"because we just, we're all in"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3614.25,"endTime":3617.16,"body":"this together."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3620.07,"endTime":3623.82,"body":"It's been wonderful. I have to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3620.07,"endTime":3623.82,"body":"have to give a plug for you,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3623.94,"endTime":3627.81,"body":"Henny, because it's been really"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3623.94,"endTime":3627.81,"body":"wonderful working with you. And"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3627.87,"endTime":3632.73,"body":"what sticks in my mind is every"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3627.87,"endTime":3632.73,"body":"time anybody says, oh, less is"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3632.73,"endTime":3639.12,"body":"more, you say no more is more. I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3632.73,"endTime":3639.12,"body":"want more. And is that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3639.12,"endTime":3645.66,"body":"passionate? More? That is so"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3639.12,"endTime":3645.66,"body":"wonderful. Because it's its"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3645.69,"endTime":3648.09,"body":"appetite for learning and for"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3645.69,"endTime":3648.09,"body":"living?"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3648.27,"endTime":3652.83,"body":"Yes. Appetite for learning and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3648.27,"endTime":3652.83,"body":"living? I think that is that is"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3652.83,"endTime":3653.22,"body":"very"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3653.82,"endTime":3654.75,"body":"Yeah, learning."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3656.699,"endTime":3663.269,"body":"Loving and loving. Let's let's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3656.699,"endTime":3663.269,"body":"add all the ELLs. All right, I'm"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3663.269,"endTime":3666.719,"body":"so glad that you could join me."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3663.269,"endTime":3666.719,"body":"Gorgeous,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3666.719,"endTime":3669.209,"body":"thank you for inviting me, it's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3666.719,"endTime":3669.209,"body":"been great experience."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3675.84,"endTime":3684.6,"body":"What a gorgeous way to spend an"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3675.84,"endTime":3684.6,"body":"hour of time being with Dina and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3685.71,"endTime":3689.07,"body":"I don't know if you could tell."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3685.71,"endTime":3689.07,"body":"But you know, there was"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3689.07,"endTime":3694.56,"body":"something about the quality of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3689.07,"endTime":3694.56,"body":"the way Dena thinks and works,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3694.59,"endTime":3701.4,"body":"which really challenges you to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3694.59,"endTime":3701.4,"body":"get your own mind working in a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3701.4,"endTime":3709.83,"body":"more explorative and creative"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3701.4,"endTime":3709.83,"body":"way. So I feel I feel really"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3709.83,"endTime":3713.55,"body":"stimulated after that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3709.83,"endTime":3713.55,"body":"conversation. And, and I hope"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3713.55,"endTime":3718.92,"body":"you've really enjoyed listening"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3713.55,"endTime":3718.92,"body":"to her as well. And I want to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3718.92,"endTime":3726.09,"body":"share that, obviously, as Dina"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3718.92,"endTime":3726.09,"body":"says the diploma is running"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3726.09,"endTime":3729.81,"body":"again next year. So if you're a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3726.09,"endTime":3729.81,"body":"practitioner, a counsellor, a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3729.81,"endTime":3736.14,"body":"therapist, and you want to use"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3729.81,"endTime":3736.14,"body":"image work in your work with"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3736.14,"endTime":3741.87,"body":"your clients, with your"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3736.14,"endTime":3741.87,"body":"patients, then do take a look at"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3741.9,"endTime":3746.1,"body":"the website and all the links"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3741.9,"endTime":3746.1,"body":"are in the notes. And then the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3746.1,"endTime":3750.18,"body":"other thing is that I've"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3746.1,"endTime":3750.18,"body":"actually got an event coming up"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3750.21,"endTime":3757.95,"body":"on June the 17th, which is a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3750.21,"endTime":3757.95,"body":"morning of exploring an image"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3757.95,"endTime":3762.99,"body":"work exercise. It's called"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3757.95,"endTime":3762.99,"body":"wisdom from within. And it's an"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3762.99,"endTime":3770.34,"body":"invitation to meet with an inner"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3762.99,"endTime":3770.34,"body":"guide. We all have multiple"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3770.4,"endTime":3775.5,"body":"inner guides in our imagination,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3770.4,"endTime":3775.5,"body":"and through a guided practice"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3775.5,"endTime":3782.46,"body":"with me to go and explore having"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3775.5,"endTime":3782.46,"body":"an interaction with your own"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3782.46,"endTime":3787.74,"body":"inner guide or that connection"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3782.46,"endTime":3787.74,"body":"that Deena talks about. So I've"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3788.16,"endTime":3793.68,"body":"there's a link in the notes. If"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3788.16,"endTime":3793.68,"body":"you're on the mailing list, then"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3793.83,"endTime":3799.44,"body":"I'll include a link in the email"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3793.83,"endTime":3799.44,"body":"that I send out or have a search"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3799.44,"endTime":3805.47,"body":"for me on Eventbrite. And just"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3799.44,"endTime":3805.47,"body":"look for Henny Flynn and you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3805.47,"endTime":3811.59,"body":"should be able to see the event"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3805.47,"endTime":3811.59,"body":"on the 17th of June. So I will"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3811.59,"endTime":3819.27,"body":"leave you here and as ever, I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3811.59,"endTime":3819.27,"body":"send you so much love and I look"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3819.27,"endTime":3822.66,"body":"forward to being with you again"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3819.27,"endTime":3822.66,"body":"next week. All right,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3822.81,"endTime":3826.35,"body":"take care, my darlings. I send"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3822.81,"endTime":3826.35,"body":"you a hug and a wave"}]}