Carol Cox: How can you get referrals for both clients
and speaking engagements without having to do
the awkward ask?
You're going to learn how to do this with my
guest, Stacy Brown Randall,
on this episode of the Speaking Your Brand
podcast. More and more women are making an
impact by starting businesses,
running for office, and speaking up for what
matters. With my background as a TV political
analyst, entrepreneur,
and speaker, I interview and coach purpose
driven women to shape their brands,
grow their companies, and become recognized
as influencers in their field.
This is speaking your brand,
your place to learn how to persuasively
communicate your message to your audience.
Hi there and welcome to Speaking Your Brand
podcast. I'm your host,
Carol Cox. Now, most of us have been told
that if we want referrals,
we should just ask for them.
But that can oftentimes feel awkward,
even pushy.
You kind of feel like, well, do I really want
to ask past clients so directly for
referrals? What if instead you could design
an experience for your clients,
your audience, and even event organizers that
makes you naturally referable?
That's exactly what my guest today,
Stacy Brown Randall, is here to share.
Stacy is the author of her new book called
The Referable Client Experience,
and she's both a proven system to generate
consistent referrals without the awkward ask
or any of those kind of icky tactics that
we've been told to use.
So if you've ever wished more clients and
more speaking invitations come your way
simply because people can't stop talking
about the experience you created for them,
you're going to love this episode.
And fun fact Stacy was on this podcast way
back in episode number 62.
That was in March of 2018.
I can't believe it's been that long.
Stacey, welcome back to the podcast.
Stacey Brown Randall: Well, Carol, thank you so much for having me
back. It's always nice to be a repeat guest.
I didn't realize it had been so long,
so it's so funny. That's.
That was actually the year my first book came
out, so I guess it's perfect that I'm back
now with my second book out.
And clearly it took me forever to write my
second book.
Carol Cox: Well, I still haven't written my first.
So you are. You are way ahead of me,
so congrats on the second one.
So let me ask you this. So your first one was
about referrals and the second one is as
well. So why did you decide to write the
second book? What did you feel like you
wanted to add to the conversation?
Stacey Brown Randall: Oh, so much like, I think that's the
interesting thing about referrals, because
for so long we've been taught that,
hey, if you want referrals, just ask for
them. Or if you want referrals,
just create like a loyalty type referral
program and people will give you permission.
You can give people permission for referrals
or you're taught, hey, just go network all
the time so people can't forget about you and
that's all you got to do to get referrals.
People think it's like a do this and then get
referrals. And it's like so like simple.
And it's just like tiny in this one little
process that they need to do.
Um, but that's treating referrals like
they're a nail. And the only tool you need is
a hammer. And it's just not the case.
I mean, I have been teaching business owners
how to generate referrals for now,
12 years, and I actually have 20 different
strategies that I teach.
No business owner needs all of them.
Most of them are situational.
So like, hey, in this situation,
when this happens, Stacy told me what to say
is usually how I want my clients thinking
about it. Right? Some are like processes or
plans or strategies we want in place that
kind of run all the time in your business,
like year after year, and others are just
because the situation happened. You know what
to say. And the truth is,
it's not just referrals are a nail.
So here's a hammer, right? You need a fully
stocked toolbox to really leverage all the
referrals that have the potential to come
into your business and exist in your
business. I teach referrals like they exist
in an ecosystem.
There's not just one way to get referrals.
There's lots of ways. And so the first book
that I wrote, Generating Business Referrals
without asking, I'll be honest,
when I first wrote it, I was like,
this is the book.
It's the only book.
And this is like, I think I started writing
that book back in 2017.
It came out in 2018. I'm like,
this is it. This is this is my platform.
Like, this is the things you need to know.
And then as my business evolved and my
clients started asking different questions
and I was like, and it was funny because
they'd asked like, well, what would you say
in this situation? I'd be like, you say this
and I'm like, wait, that's not actually
recorded for any other client to access
unless they're listening to this
conversation. So we started building out like
the library of all the client questions,
and they kind of formed their own, like
little mini strategies and mini tactics.
And so that's what we have that we provide to
our clients. But the more I started watching
my body of work like evolve,
I was like, wait a minute,
the book really only is attached to one the
first book. It's only attached to one of the
20 strategies. It's the teaching you how to
identify if you have people who refer you now
and then the steps to follow to get more
referrals from people who already refer you.
But as the body of work evolved, I was like,
well, what about people who've never referred
you? Like, that's a whole standalone
strategy. What about the clients and the
client experience? That's another whole
standalone strategy that I teach.
And so that's why I was like,
oh, well, there's probably a bunch more
books. I don't know if I have a bunch more
books in me to, like, write them and actually
get through it. Um, but so I started thinking
about it and I was like, yes.
I was like, I have three main foundational
strategies. They can each serve as their own
book. They don't need to be like a mini
chapter in one book.
And so this is the second book that I decided
to write was, which is on the client
experience and the idea that how you get
referrals from someone who already refers
you, whether they're a client or not,
looks different from the repeatable process
you need to have in place to be able to.
To be worthy of those referrals,
and then to know how to bridge the gap to
those referrals. And that all happens within
the client experience.
Carol Cox: And Stacey, I want to get into the client
experience, both for those of us who are
business owners as well as for those of us
who are speakers and maybe or don't own our
own business and work for someone else
because we can cover both of those different
scenarios. But I want to mention about what
came to mind when you were describing about
oftentimes we're taught or we think with
referrals, like you said,
we just go to network and we give people our
business cards, digital or paper or whatever,
whatever whatever is in right now.
And, you know, we do that and then,
you know, they're gonna just magically think
someone's going to pop into their mind, and
then they're going to introduce us and we're
going to get lots of referrals that way, or,
or what have you.
And I feel like a lot of times that we don't
like that approach or,
you know, directly asking because it feels
very transactional.
And I know for the work that I do and
speaking your brand with our clients, the
work that you do, Stacy,
the work with that, so many of the women who
run businesses, the work that we do is not
transactional. It's the opposite of that.
We create our programs at our workshops and
our coaching to provide that transformational
experience, to do that deep work with our
clients. And then like, but we treat this
referral process what we're taught to treat
it very transactionally.
And I think that's what thing comes into your
emphasis on the client experience.
So can you tell us about that?
Stacey Brown Randall: Yeah. You know, I think what most people
think about it like it's very transactional
yet so that it doesn't align like they think
about referrals as transactional. So it
doesn't align to actually how they do
business. And in some cases how we do life
right. Like it just doesn't match.
And so I think that's the thing that people
need to understand when it comes to your
client experience is that and this is like,
this is something I always like to ask folks.
I always ask folks like,
do your clients love working with you.
Right? If you're providing that
transformation and you're doing great work,
not perfect work.
I mean, nobody expects perfection. Nobody
reasonable, I guess I should say expects
perfection. Perfection. But if you're doing
great work and your clients love you,
right, and you're thinking about the value
that you add and that you are what we would
quote unquote call referable,
right? Like, you're doing great work.
Like this is all great. Your clients tell you
that they love you.
Then my next question is always,
but are you drowning in referrals?
And usually the answer is nope,
I am not. And that is because doing great
work does not equate to receiving referrals.
We think it should.
It seems like it would make sense,
but actually what you're working with in the
brain of your client to refer you is
different, right?
When you're actually just delivering great
quality work within your client experience.
So that's why we call it the Referable Client
Experience. It is doing great work.
I will I mean, obviously that's important,
right? I feel like I should say that even
though I feel like I shouldn't have to say
that doing great work is certainly important.
But then on top of that,
you have to layer on top of that that
repeatable, intentional client experience
that makes you referable,
and then you still got to bridge the gap to
referrals, and it takes all those pieces in
place to be able to generate referrals from
our clients. It's not that our clients don't
refer you because they don't want to,
or because they think something bad about you
when they're actually telling you you're
amazing. It's because that's actually not how
they're thinking at all, and we kind of have
to help them get there.
Carol Cox: So then Stacy, describe a little bit about
how they're thinking.
And does this dovetail with your three stages
of the client experience,
which you call new clients active clients and
alumni clients.
Stacey Brown Randall: Yeah. So what the client is.
So a client is going through a lot of
different emotions when they move through
your client experience.
And number one, the number one emotion that
they have through the entire experience is,
am I going to get what I paid for?
Like, it may not be that that crass,
right? But like the idea is like, did I make
a good decision?
Am I going to get what I pay for? And that
emotion is much stronger in the new stage
right, than it is, like in the active stage
or the alumni stage?
And so that's the thing they're thinking
about. They're thinking about themselves.
They're thinking about how I'm going to take
what you're teaching me, what you're coaching
me on, like, how is that going to work?
So they're thinking through all those pieces.
They're not thinking about,
oh my gosh, Carol is amazing.
I need to refer her to everybody.
I know. Some people will.
You will have some clients that they come
into your world, and then all of a sudden
they're referring you to other potential
clients and you're like,
this is amazing.
How do I duplicate that?
The hard thing about the right people
referring you is, is that you can't identify
them. Like they just they have to reveal
themselves and then we can take care of them
differently. But yeah,
that's like a really important thing for
people to understand is that your client's
emotions through their stages is reflected on
themselves and what they're doing.
Which is why I teach a formula to how you
want to really invest in that client when
they're part of the new active and alumni
stage. And that formula for your client
experience is, yes, first part work touch
points. But the second part of that formula
is the relationship you build.
So the relationship touch points and you have
to have both.
And when you have both you have a greater
opportunity to then also wow how they feel
about you. And then be able to plant what we
call referral seeds to be able to bridge the
gap to referrals. Because my clients are not
allowed to ask, they're not allowed to pay,
they're not allowed to be gimmicky and
promotional. And usually that's why they're
with me anyways, because they don't want to
do those things. But I always tell folks
like, you're not going to do all these
amazing things to build this amazing client
experience and then ruin it with a by the
way, who do you know that's just like you
that I should be working with?
Carol Cox: Stacy, I want to talk more about this idea of
the touch point. So the work touch points and
relationship touch points. And this goes so
well with what I talk about with public
speaking and thought leadership, which is we
have a tendency, especially as high
achieving, well-educated,
expert women in our fields to get stuck when
I call the expert trap.
So we're so good at relaying information,
whether it's in public speaking,
podcast interviews, etc.,
that we forget about the transformation that
our audience is looking for because it's that
transformation that gets them to feel and
believe in something more for themselves or
for their work or whatever it happens to be,
versus just information,
which is important, but it's not enough.
So it seems like what you're talking about
with the work touch points and making sure to
bring in the relationship touch points is
also about, and the work that we're doing
with our clients to make sure that we are
also helping them understand the value of the
transformation that they're undergoing.
Stacey Brown Randall: Yeah. You know, it's it's the crazy thing
about the work that we do.
At the end of the day,
you know, people want to know that like,
hey, I'm getting quality work,
but what really makes them feel like they
would talk about you and that they would
refer you and that they would even be open to
the idea of it before they realize they're
open to the idea of it is really how you make
them feel. It really comes down to that
understanding of like,
how do I feel? More so than,
oh my gosh, this is amazing,
like the work I'm getting,
but also that relationship you're building
and how you make them feel.
And that's what's remembered longer.
And that's the same thing with like,
you know, and I am as guilty of this,
I think as the next speaker sometimes of like
I just want to make sure you have all the
information, like you just got to have all
the information because I want you to be able
to go off and do go forth.
Right. Um, and the reality of it is,
is that a lot of times,
the biggest transformation we make is that I
need you to think different about referrals.
And so for me, it's the same thing.
It's the same thing with the clients on a
referral by client experience. Like, I need
you to have a great client experience, but I
need you to think different about how you're
going to get referrals out of it.
And recognizing that you've got to build
relationships so that you have opportunities
to plant referral seeds.
And really understanding that that is like
the journey your clients need to go on to
move from. She does great work to she does
great work. And I'm going to connect you to
her because she's that amazing and you need
her. And those are different.
Carol Cox: Stacy, can you give us an example?
Any that come to mind of these relationships,
like developing the relationship with a
client. What what could that look like?
What are some things that we could be doing?
Stacey Brown Randall: Yeah. So I always tell folks we want to look
at the work touch points you're doing.
And depending on like how long your new stage
active stage. Of course the alumni stage is
like indefinite, right? Until you decide to
remove someone from the alumni list.
Um, but the new stage and the active stage,
depending on how long they are,
there's going to be so many work touch points
within them. I usually tell folks,
let's just say on average and the new client
stage, you have like ten touch points.
You do. And this is some things the client
never sees, right?
This isn't always things the client sees, but
it could be the things you're doing for the
clients behind the scenes and the things the
client does see. Let's just say for sake of
argument in your new stage, you have like ten
work based touchpoints.
Then 1 or 2 of them probably needs to be a
relationship based touchpoint.
And then the same thing in active. Active is
actually where the most of the work happens
within with a client relationship.
And so let's just say you have like 40 touch
points that happen start to finish right from
that active stage starting until they move to
the alumni stage.
Um, and of course, if your clients are
reoccurring like they never leave,
you don't actually move to the alumni stage.
They go active and they stay in the ongoing
active stage. But you probably need to have
like if you've got 40 touchpoints in that
point, you probably need to have like 2 or 3,
um, that are relationship based. So we look
at we're looking at it from like a 20 to 30%
relationship touch point in relation to the
work touchpoints that you're doing.
But it's not just all willy nilly.
I'm going to do this touch point and then
this touch point because I want to or they
feel good or they're easy.
You actually have to be overcoming either
some pitfalls that people make,
or you've got to be overcoming some things
that like of what the client is thinking.
So let's use, for example,
the new client stage.
When somebody decides to hire you,
they have a moment of buyer's remorse.
It doesn't matter how excited they are,
it doesn't matter how long they've thought
about hiring you. At some point they're gonna
be like, oh boy, there's a lot of money.
Am I going to get what I want out of this?
Right? And so it's it's important to try to
overcome that buyer's remorse.
But most people do it by like,
thanks so much for being a client. I'm like,
no, no, no. In your relationship based
touchpoint, even though it still delivers on
a work attitude.
Right. And that relationship based
touchpoint, we're going to acknowledge the
buyer's remorse. I call it the quiet voice.
It's the quiet voice is the voice they're
thinking. They're just not speaking. You
don't know it, but you know it because you
have it when you're a client of other people,
right? And so, like, how do you overcome the
quiet voice? How do you overcome that buyer's
remorse that a client has,
but also building on the relationship?
So one of the best things I like to tell my
clients to do is sometimes that's handled
through like the welcome card or the welcome
gift, but it's the language you use that
makes that really, really hit home in terms
of making me feel different about it.
So let's just take a welcome card,
for example. Most people send a welcome card
and they're like, Carol,
thanks so much for becoming a client. We're
excited to work with you.
Can't wait to get started.
There's fundamentally I mean,
I guess there's nothing wrong with that note,
but it doesn't speak to anything I may have
concerns about. So I tell my clients to write
what we call like that.
It's a little bit of a journey card,
like it's acknowledging the journey we're
about to go on. So the language we would use
is more specifically to Carol.
We are so excited. I'm so excited to work
with you. I know going through this process,
it's going to stretch and challenge you,
and it's going to be moments. You're going to
wonder, what did I sign up for?
But I want you to know you're not alone. And
I'm your co-pilot. I'm here for the ride.
And I've got you. That speaks so differently
to a client who has a quiet voice and the
buyer's remorse running through them,
versus I'm so glad you're a client.
And that actually, that fundamental small
card that you send or send that card with a
gift is actually a relationship based
touchpoint that most people wouldn't expect.
It feels like a work touchpoint,
but the right language kind of turns it into
a relationship touchpoint.
So sometimes it's not.
Let me send you 14 gifts,
because that's how you're going to feel like
you're being taken care of. It's paying
attention to how your client feels in the
moment or the stage that they're in,
and then recognizing that and doing a work or
a relationship touchpoint to speak to that.
Carol Cox: I love that example, Stacey.
Very concrete and tangible,
and I like it because it validates where the
person is at, what they're thinking,
it empathizes with them,
and it puts the emphasis on them and their
journey versus you, the business and the
transaction that you just closed.
Stacey Brown Randall: Right. Exactly.
Absolutely.
Carol Cox: Okay. So that that's really helpful.
So we have these three stages like you
mentioned, the new stage, the active stage
and the alumni stage.
So I feel like we have a good sense of the
new stage alleviating buyer's remorse,
knowing that there's this quiet voice that's
in there that is helpful to address in the
beginning. Oh, let me ask you this. When are
you talking about these different touch
points? Are these generally obviously they
can be welcome gifts and welcome cards.
Is a lot of it happening via email besides,
say like zoom calls or calls that you're
having with clients, whether it's one on one
or in group.
Stacey Brown Randall: So usually what I have my clients do is
actually map out what they're currently doing
from start to finish when they work with a
client, because we actually want to pay
attention to not only making sure that we
have the right percentage of relationship
touch points, but we want to have a variety
behind delivery method.
So if everything you do with your clients is
emailed, then I would want to make sure that
we have some relationship touchpoints that
are mailed. So, you know,
my business is very much like this.
I am standing and looking at the humans that
I get to work with over a screen with a
camera, right? Like it's just how it is. Not
always. I have some where I work in person
with people, but my coaching program is just
like this. It's me and a bunch of faces in a
zoom room. And so when they're my welcome
gift, when people join my coaching program is
actually something that I mail. It's actually
a a gift box that I mail to them that has
very specific things in it that meets them,
where they are in that journey.
Um, and so the variety of the delivery method
matters. Um, I can't say there's like,
hey, it should be 5 to 10.
Like, I would never say that because I need
to know what someone's doing now and how they
are communicating with clients now.
Um, versus then giving them like,
okay, you're doing it this way.
So let's add these three things in it and do
them differently.
Carol Cox: I like that idea that it is also variety.
I'm just thinking for myself. So I use
LinkedIn as basically the only social media
platform that I use.
And so I try to follow our clients whatever
stage that they're at. Obviously,
the algorithm chooses to show me whoever it
shows me, but I do try to say if I see them,
you know, they were at a speaking engagement
or they got an award, I comment and
congratulate them.
But I'm just thinking that even for current
clients, so clients who who are currently
enrolled, we obviously send emails to them,
you know, about upcoming calls and what they
should be working on, but even maybe sending
them a direct message on LinkedIn as more of
a relationship touchpoint versus the here's
what we're doing on the next call email
touchpoint.
Stacey Brown Randall: Yeah. And I think that's one thing that
people have to pay attention to, to what
works for them, particularly when you move to
the active stage because it's in the active
stage where the biggest pitfall you have to
overcome is the lull of complacency.
Like it's just we're doing our coaching
calls, right.
This happens, and then we're doing email
checks or sending emails and we're sending
zoom link and we're just showing up for
coaching calls and reviewing your work,
whatever it is like. And this happens a lot
for coaches in particular,
um, is like, it's that lull of complacency.
It's the same with it doesn't really matter
what you do. There's always a little
complacency. So paying attention to how do we
show up a little bit different.
Um, and sometimes that means getting offline
and going more analog.
But that then comes into like a budget
perspective. They get to pay attention to
logistical lift. That's real too.
So yes, sometimes it's being different. Like
sometimes I tell folks like I had somebody,
I was on a client call and he was like, I'm
just going to email them. I'm like, no,
you're not. You're going to send a video.
You're going to say whatever you would say in
that email, but you're going to say it in a
video because they need something different.
He's like, I can do that,
right? Like, I don't need you to, like, mail
him a card every time you're trying to tell
him something relationship based. But a video
is better than yet another email.
Carol Cox: Oh, I love that because, like, loom is so
easy to use and then you can just embed it in
the email. And the other thing that I have
not done, but it reminds me that I should, is
that sometimes I will get LinkedIn audio
messages. So direct messages on LinkedIn.
But there you can record up to a minute at a
time. And so I've gotten that from from women
colleagues that I know. And I'm like, oh,
it's always it's so nice to hear their voice.
And they can only really leave a minute or
two message. That's it.
Stacey Brown Randall: Yeah. On Instagram, they've now changed it
where you can leave like indefinite messages,
which I have found is not great for someone
who can sometimes ramble.
So I'm like, oh, LinkedIn.
Like they keep it tight.
Carol Cox: Yes. Okay, that's a great idea. I love this
idea of the variety too. Okay. So then Stacy,
let's talk briefly about the alumni stage.
So for example, in here in our programs we
have our thought leader academy. So women
work with us and then they graduate and then
they're in our alumni stage.
So what what does that look like as far as
relationship building and keeping referrals
in mind?
Stacey Brown Randall: Yeah. So actually at the alumni stage,
there's no more work touch points. The only
thing you have are relationship based touch
points. Now, sometimes people use their
alumni stage to bring people back to be a
repeat client. Right.
That's something that's not always what
everybody's business is structured as to do
that. So in some cases,
if you're if the goal of of my client is
like, hey, I want repeat clients in addition
to referrals, then we may look at it a little
bit differently, but most of the time the
work is done and them giving you a
testimonial would be great. Then continuing
to say great things about you online would be
wonderful, but you really ultimately after
the referrals. But all you have at that point
are the relationship based touchpoints.
And so it is an opportunity for you really.
And I look at it this way most of the time
when I'm working with clients, we are talking
about staying top of mind.
But when you get to the alumni stage,
it really is like a step down from that.
And in terms of like keeping in touch and
really being like, I just like you had this
great experience with me. I want to make sure
I'm popping up in your life,
right, so you don't have the opportunity to
forget about me.
And so that can look very different for
different people. For me.
Um, once you're a client of mine and then you
become an alumni client,
the point is for everybody to eventually
graduate, right? Um, is that you're always
going to get up to at least your first so
many years our holiday card.
Now the difference with that is,
is our holiday cards are a bit of a
production. Like we theme them out.
The family all participates.
Usually they are not happy with me,
but like for one card we did 11 different
outfit changes and location changes.
Carol Cox: Oh my gosh Stacy, you are hardcore.
Stacey Brown Randall: Like when I say production,
they are production.
I actually have one of them in the book in
the Referable Client Experience book,
and we link to more like in the Insider
resource page.
But anyways, so like for me sending that out
is like there are some people obviously not
every not every person's like anticipating
it, but like it comes and it makes a
statement. Right. It has an impact and it's a
way for them to like, you know,
remember me like staying in like keeping in
touch. Right? Staying in touch. But there are
other things that you can do that are more
driven on more of that.
Hey, I'm just trying to like, stay on your
radar because the idea behind the ability to
be able to generate referrals, first and
foremost is that I can't forget about you.
And then. Right.
You need to make sure that you're staying in,
like, staying in touch, keeping top of mind,
staying in touch. Um, and then it gives you
that opportunity to maintain that
relationship. Now, if you have a client
that's in your alumni stage and you're
sitting in like a holiday card,
and maybe they're invited to a client
appreciation event for a couple of years
after, and then maybe you're sending them
like this random video for one like 4th of
July or something like that. Like, let's not
let's let's manage our expectations. And
don't think that's going to unleash a river
of referrals from that alumni client.
Um, but if you add in some other things,
sometimes it's just like the check in like,
hey, I just want to check in and see how
you're doing. There's some things you can do
that are just more time valuable,
as seen by the other person that allows them
to be like, now you start working your way
back into their memory bank.
And that's the big thing I want people to
understand, to be able to direct how someone
thinks about you, like sending you referrals,
you first have to impact how they feel about
you, and then you've earned the right to
plant referral seeds and in direct the
language and the words that you speak to
direct how they think about you.
And it really does work in that order.
Carol Cox: Stacey, let's talk about how this applies to
speaking engagements, because of course,
everyone loves to get those inbound speaking
requests. You know, the email or the LinkedIn
message that says, oh, I,
I, you know, I found you or someone told me
about you and I would love for you to come
speak at my event and we have a budget to pay
you, right? So that's great.
So then how can we make it more likely that
when we are working with event organizers
that we're getting referrals,
maybe back to their own events,
but to other event organizers that they know?
Stacey Brown Randall: Yeah. So here's the thing.
I think the number one thing to pay attention
to is that what most people overlook is that
they look at working with that event
organizer in the just the singularity of that
one speaking engagement.
And that event organizer is now your client,
and they need a client experience as well.
And if you're doing a lot of speaking, this
is easier for you to set up in your business
versus if you're like me and you do speaking,
but you really do wait for the phone to ring.
You really do wait for the person to be like,
I need you. And you're like, great, what's
your budget? Um, and so if you're really
trying to build your speaking career,
you have to treat the people who book you.
They are your client, whether they are within
an organization, and they may or may not be
able to book you again,
or they're within an association and they
have lots of other people like them in the
organization they know,
or lots of other associations that they're
serving that they could bring you into.
They have a new active and alumni stage as
well, and you need to build out what that
looks like from a speaker's perspective so
that you can, you know,
deliver the great work.
But it is not just about the time that you
show up and you're on stage and then you walk
off stage, right?
That's what I refer to when people are
sitting in the audience and they see you
speak and they're like, I want her.
Yep, that's who I want.
That's like the right people in referrals
that I teach from a client experience. You
don't know the right people when they show up
in your client experience.
They just reveal themselves by starting to
refer you and you're like, oh, that one got a
live one. This is good, right?
Same thing. But with your person who's
booking you, that's where you have the
potential for more.
And you know who that person is.
And you need to manage them through that same
process of that referral,
client experience, work and relationship
touchpoints and making sure that you are
extending that ongoing relationship with
them. So, for instance,
if you're speaking at a large conference and
you've got an event organiser that's booking
you and a bunch of other people,
you know the number one thing they probably
need when the event is all over with is that
you survived it. Gift.
Carol Cox: Oh, that's a great idea,
right?
Stacey Brown Randall: Right. Like, hey, you,
thanks for having me. You survived it.
It was so exciting. Like,
you don't need to say anything about
referrals or something like that to work. I
mean, truly right.
It's like it's just the whole idea that as
this one speaker, you showed up differently.
Like, I have a friend who does a lot of
speaking, and he was like,
he was we were talking about the content of
this book long before it ever came out.
And he was like, and he asked the same
question, you did care. Like, what does this
look like for a speaker? And I'm like, are
you kidding? It's like,
you can totally relate this to speaking
because the person who books you is the
client and they have new active stage.
And I was like, oh my gosh. I was like, why
don't you just send a you survived gift
afterwards? Like a self-care,
right? Kind of like small gift box.
Something in your budget, something you can
afford. And I kid you not,
he got like 4 or 5 referrals for additional
speaking engagements. After that. Some came
from the person who sent the gift to and some
came from people she told that were also
looking to book speakers.
Carol Cox: Yes, because not only as a speaker,
you're going to do an excellent job. But like
you said, you have to be memorable.
People have so much going on.
You know, people are drowning in information
and emails and especially running events.
And then for you to do something like that,
you will stand out.
Stacey Brown Randall: Yes, absolutely.
Carol Cox: Okay. So I love that. I love these examples.
These are really helpful to us.
And so then let's think about uh,
I have let me ask you this about whether it's
clients or event organizers.
So I oftentimes I will schedule a zoom call
with event organizer for after the event,
you know, after they have survived it and did
their their self-care and their rest and
recovery. So maybe it's,
you know, a two weeks later.
So I'll do a zoom call with them because I
want to get feedback from them about how it
went and from the audience takeaways were any
surveys and things like that. And then
oftentimes either myself or if my client is
doing this, we will say something like,
you know, do you know any other event
organizers or other events who could use a
speaker like me, a speaker on my topic,
and my clients have gotten well paid
opportunities from those referrals.
So is that considered a soft ask versus a no
no ask?
Stacey Brown Randall: So here's the thing. Here's the thing. I
always tell folks I am not interested in
breaking anything that works in your
business, right?
My the way I would want to give direct
information to to your clients about this is
how many times have you asked it and how many
times does it produce results and are there
any patterns there?
So for example, if you have a client who is
asking that question of the event planner
after the event, and it's for more speaking
engagement that that event planner is looking
to book, and that's where the referrals are
coming from. Well, that's a different ask
than can you refer me to other people like
you who are also booking speakers?
Right. So I think it depends on how you
position it. Um, if you tell me you've asked
it 50 times and you've only landed one
speaking engagement from you from it.
My fear is, is that the 49 that are now
turned off for the one that you wanted to
get. I'm not taking anything away from the
one that you landed.
I'm just saying that if you ask that person
like, hey, do you have any other
opportunities or do you know of anybody who's
also booking speakers?
Right. If you ask that person,
the trigger for them to refer to you was your
ask. It isn't building the thought process in
their minds by how you take care of them and
how you show up, and how you plant referral
seeds. That triggers future referrals.
And that's the difference I want people to
make. Like, yeah, there are people who ask
and there are people who get some referrals,
but how many times do you ask,
how many times does it actually work? And
could you consider shifting it to look a
little bit different?
Right, in terms of now that becomes the
trigger. And so if you're not always asking
them, maybe they won't think to actually
refer you. So again if you ask and people are
like, hey, every third person I ask,
I get a speaking engagement. I would never
tell you not to. Right?
You're doing something right.
I would love to analyze your language because
I bet it's not very direct.
I bet it's like circumventing it just a
little bit, which is probably helpful because
it doesn't feel so like, okay,
don't give me work to do.
Just that's what people don't want. They
don't.
Carol Cox: Yes, yes.
Stacey Brown Randall: To give them work to do.
So it is important in terms of how you
position your language.
But if it's not working or it works one every
50 times I'm like, oh my gosh,
please stop asking because you may be
damaging relationships.
Carol Cox: Yes. Collect data.
I'm such a big believer in tracking data
sources where things come from,
so thank you for that. Stacy I yes,
I could not agree more.
Okay, so I have a few more questions for you
that I want to dig into.
So is there anything surprising or
counterintuitive that you've learned about
referrals from the clients that you've worked
with? Beyond just the asking directly usually
doesn't work, but anything else surprising or
counterintuitive?
Stacey Brown Randall: Yeah, I think that sometimes what people
don't expect is that you can't plant 1 or 2
referral seeds and think you're going to
unleash some type of river of referrals.
Like in theory, I say that and you're like,
that makes perfect sense. But then when
you're a client of mine and you're like doing
it, you're like, when are they coming? I'm
like, nobody has an eight ball.
Like, we don't know. And some of your
clients, I always tell folks, I'm like,
listen, if 20 to 30% of your clients are
referring you, you're actually doing great.
That's a good baseline to get to.
Then we can improve from there.
But let's not jump into this being like
thinking you're gonna go from 0 to 75%
referring you because you planted a couple of
referral seeds, or you did a couple of like,
welcome cards, like it is a it's an
intentional, repeatable process where you're
percolating the idea of referrals in moments
that you have in your business,
where referrals are maybe more likely to
happen, and that you're repeatable with it
and you're doing it for every client.
And we're seeing who it actually produces
referrals from.
Right. And then we're testing those kind of
things out. So I think sometimes people are
like, well, I said the thing and I'm like,
okay, like, what did you you said a thing
like you said one thing like, I had a client
that I worked with the same way. Like he was
like, I'm doing the thing. I'm like, yeah.
And you're like white knuckling every
conversation you have planting the referral
seeds, and you're almost doing it like you're
daring it not to work.
And guess what? It's not working.
Because, like, we sense that this isn't
genuine for you.
And they totally switched his focus.
And in one quarter he got six referrals.
So I'm like, so some of this is the belief
that it can work. The second thing is,
is the belief that it's not going to work on
your timetable and I can't predict.
And it's not going to happen because you do 1
or 2 things. It is an experience.
Carol Cox: Yes. And I tell our podcast listeners and our
clients the same thing about public speaking,
that it takes time.
It takes time to build your network.
It takes time to build your reputation as a
speaker. You go do 1 or 2 speaking
engagements. Great.
Now you're going to get the ball rolling, but
it takes a while for it to to pick up speed.
It's not going to happen in one month.
Like it's just right. It's just not going to
do that. So you have to be realistic,
but you also have to get the ball started,
right? You can't just keep waiting for it.
All right. So then Stacy,
so think of this idea of getting the ball
started for the listeners out there.
If they could take one action this week to
start creating a more referable client
experience, what would you suggest?
Stacey Brown Randall: Okay, this may not be the answer that your
audience really wants to hear, because it's
not. Some like, flash in the pan like,
hey, let's say this one plant,
this one referral seed or let's do this one
tactic. But I really think what people forget
is that before the referral piece can work,
you really have to pay attention to what
you're already executing on within your
client experience, right?
Like I see people all the time,
they're like, I want to add this wow factor
and then plant these referral seeds.
And I'm like, yeah, but your clients are
really hoping you just fix this one part of
your process first, right?
So the example I like to share is like,
you know, my husband and I go to a gym that's
near our house, and I walked in one day and
there was like this sign out. It was like
$60,000 invested in new equipment.
And I looked at the sign and I was like,
I just wish the water out of the water
fountain was cold and not lukewarm.
Can we do that before you give me a whole
bunch of more equipment?
Like, sometimes it really is about looking at
how do you communicate? How do you set
expectations, how do you deliver on the work
you do? Do all of your automations are they
working as they should?
Do you actually have a blend of automation,
which I know allows you to be efficient, but
also engagement?
Do you have a blend of like the work you do
and the relationship you're building? Like,
pay attention to what you're doing now and
fix the basics before you're like,
okay, now let me take this up a level.
Carol Cox: Mhm. So maybe they could just like sit down
pen and paper, jot down the different touch
points that they're doing right now in a
typical client engagement that they have.
And then start looking to see how they can
make improvements and add some of those
relationship touch points as well.
Stacey Brown Randall: We actually in chapter two of the Referable
Client Experience, that is the exact process
is like write out what you're currently doing
now, not what you want to do,
not what you sometimes do,
but what are you doing now?
Map that out.
And then we use that as a baseline to how to
improve upon it.
Carol Cox: Well, so speaking of your book, Stacy,
tell us more about your book and where can we
get it?
Stacey Brown Randall: Yeah. So it's referable client experience.
Uh, the website for the book is the title
Referable Client Experience. Com and of
course, you can purchase it wherever books
are sold. So if you prefer audio book or
printed, all three versions are available.
Carol Cox: Fantastic. And it is out now.
I'll make sure to include links in the show
notes so you all can grab it there.
Go get Stacey's book.
I know having known Stacey now for seven
years over seven years.
Unbelievable. I love this like online women's
business community because I feel like I've
known so many of you all for so long and and
I really enjoy seeing everyone's growth and
their thought leadership develops. So
congratulations again Stacey on this book.
I can't wait to get a copy because we're
recording a couple of weeks before the the
book actually comes out,
so I can't wait to get my copy and to read it
and to start applying it here to the work
that we do and speaking your brand.
And also I'll make sure to include Stacey
links to your website,
the programs that you run as well as your
main social media platforms.
Stacey, thank you so much for taking the time
to come on the podcast.
Stacey Brown Randall: Thanks for having me, I appreciate it.
Carol Cox: Until next time, thanks for listening.