WEBVTT NOTE This file was generated by Descript 00:00:01.740 --> 00:00:04.540 A key component of the modern world economy, the chemical 00:00:04.540 --> 00:00:07.990 industry delivers products and innovations to enhance everyday life. 00:00:08.605 --> 00:00:12.594 It is also an industry in transformation where chemical executives and 00:00:12.594 --> 00:00:16.215 workers are delivering growth and industry changing advancements while 00:00:16.215 --> 00:00:19.974 responding to pressures from investors, regulators, and public opinion. 00:00:20.515 --> 00:00:23.445 Discover how leading companies are approaching these challenges 00:00:23.455 --> 00:00:25.064 here on the chemical show. 00:00:25.524 --> 00:00:28.875 Join Victoria Meyer, president of Progressio Global and 00:00:28.885 --> 00:00:30.305 host of the chemical show. 00:00:30.575 --> 00:00:34.775 As she speaks with executives across the industry and learns how they are leading 00:00:34.775 --> 00:00:40.374 their companies to grow, transform, and push industry boundaries on all frontiers. 00:00:40.695 --> 00:00:42.944 Here's your host, Victoria Meyer. 00:00:45.590 --> 00:00:47.213 Victoria: Hi this is Victoria Meyer. 00:00:47.583 --> 00:00:52.043 Welcome back to The Chemical Show, Where Chemicals Means Business. 00:00:52.513 --> 00:00:57.123 A few months ago, I had the opportunity to partner with ACC, the American 00:00:57.123 --> 00:01:01.483 Chemistry Council, to bring you interviews with executives, including 00:01:01.483 --> 00:01:07.583 Chris Jahn of ACC, Mike Heinz of BASF and Bonnie Tully of Evonic that we 00:01:07.583 --> 00:01:12.423 recorded at the ACC's Responsible Care and Sustainability Conference. 00:01:12.793 --> 00:01:15.713 If you haven't heard them, I'm going to add a link to the 00:01:15.713 --> 00:01:17.793 show notes and on our website. 00:01:18.063 --> 00:01:20.293 You definitely want to check them out. 00:01:20.293 --> 00:01:25.038 For the next two episodes, I get a chance to bring you another ACC 00:01:25.038 --> 00:01:31.778 partnership, this time featuring award winners from their 2024 Sustainability 00:01:31.778 --> 00:01:38.108 Leadership Awards, which recognize outstanding ACC member companies and the 00:01:38.108 --> 00:01:44.377 contributions that they are making in priority areas, which include product 00:01:44.377 --> 00:01:50.068 safety, innovation, and transparency, environmental protection, circularity. 00:01:51.468 --> 00:01:52.948 Social responsibility. 00:01:53.038 --> 00:01:58.918 And a special award for external collaborators who are not ACC members 00:01:58.918 --> 00:02:03.538 necessarily, but who are partnering with members to advance sustainability. 00:02:04.748 --> 00:02:06.258 I think these awards are great. 00:02:06.378 --> 00:02:10.498 I had the opportunity to participate on a judging panel for one of the awards. 00:02:10.898 --> 00:02:17.338 And what I have to say is there are so many amazing efforts going on across the 00:02:17.348 --> 00:02:23.418 industry to create a more sustainable future and to partner with our customers, 00:02:23.468 --> 00:02:25.318 our community, and the world around us. 00:02:25.378 --> 00:02:30.431 Today, I am bringing you interviews from two of the award winners. 00:02:30.741 --> 00:02:35.241 The first person you're going to hear from today is Matt Adams of EFC Gases. 00:02:35.721 --> 00:02:39.811 EFC won the Environmental Protection award for their pretty 00:02:39.811 --> 00:02:42.366 novel Neon Recycling project. 00:02:42.496 --> 00:02:43.536 We're going to hear more about that. 00:02:44.346 --> 00:02:48.926 and then the second person I'm bringing you today is Robert Dishman of Cyclyx 00:02:49.436 --> 00:02:53.976 and Cyclyx won the External Collaborator award for the work that they are doing 00:02:53.986 --> 00:02:59.836 with ExxonMobil and Lyondell Basell and others to advance plastic circularity. 00:03:00.046 --> 00:03:03.956 So they both have great stories that I know you're going to want to hear. 00:03:03.956 --> 00:03:04.896 So stay tuned. 00:03:05.246 --> 00:03:06.836 First up, here's Matt. 00:03:06.836 --> 00:03:11.756 Hi, I'm talking with Matt Adams, who is the Executive Vice President at 00:03:11.836 --> 00:03:14.376 EFC Gases and Advanced Materials. 00:03:14.696 --> 00:03:19.776 EFC was awarded the Environmental Protection Award by ACC for 00:03:19.776 --> 00:03:22.146 its Neon Gas Recycling System. 00:03:22.176 --> 00:03:26.396 We are going to be talking about that today, and about how really, 00:03:26.836 --> 00:03:31.796 this is a story of where necessity is the root of innovation, and that's 00:03:31.806 --> 00:03:34.526 something that I think we're going to hear from Matt as we talk about this. 00:03:34.766 --> 00:03:36.536 Matt, welcome to the Chemical Show. 00:03:37.606 --> 00:03:38.586 matt adams: Oh, thank you so much. 00:03:38.616 --> 00:03:39.616 Really happy to be here. 00:03:40.166 --> 00:03:41.796 Victoria: Yeah, really great to have you here. 00:03:42.056 --> 00:03:48.106 So let's just start a little bit talking about EFC, and, just who you guys are. 00:03:49.576 --> 00:03:49.836 matt adams: Yeah. 00:03:50.196 --> 00:03:54.076 EFC is, is a company that's been around for a little over 20 years. 00:03:54.456 --> 00:03:59.516 we are a major supplier of gases and, advanced materials 00:03:59.546 --> 00:04:01.316 to, the semiconductor market. 00:04:01.756 --> 00:04:06.356 As well as the aerospace industry, we also supply critical materials 00:04:07.016 --> 00:04:08.616 to the industrial gases market. 00:04:09.256 --> 00:04:15.876 Materials that are used to supply gases that are used for the electrical 00:04:15.886 --> 00:04:18.176 grid and make sure that we have electricity running to our homes 00:04:18.176 --> 00:04:19.616 and businesses and things like that. 00:04:19.616 --> 00:04:26.196 So we have a sort of uniquely positioned in the marketplace where we have focus on 00:04:26.196 --> 00:04:31.086 those industries and supply quite a number of materials for those applications. 00:04:31.826 --> 00:04:32.546 Victoria: That's very cool. 00:04:32.706 --> 00:04:38.356 So can you tell us just about what this Neon Gas Recycling System is, what sparked 00:04:38.356 --> 00:04:40.756 it, and how it's getting used today? 00:04:41.836 --> 00:04:42.366 matt adams: Yeah, sure. 00:04:43.376 --> 00:04:47.776 neon is a material that's used in an excellent laser application. 00:04:48.026 --> 00:04:50.686 It's part of a gas mixture that creates a light source. 00:04:51.556 --> 00:04:58.516 that's used for lithography applications at the semiconductor fabs and what 00:04:58.516 --> 00:05:05.461 we found was during the, During the war between Russia and Ukraine, there 00:05:05.461 --> 00:05:09.791 was a major impact to the global neon supply chain, and that's the second 00:05:10.131 --> 00:05:16.711 major impact to the global neon supply chain in the last eight years or so. 00:05:17.951 --> 00:05:22.931 so the industry, really needs, neon as part of this gas mixture, 00:05:23.511 --> 00:05:25.291 for this XLR laser application. 00:05:25.551 --> 00:05:28.451 It's really critical, for the entire industry. 00:05:29.741 --> 00:05:34.941 what EFC did is we worked with, one of the, one of the OEMs, one of the 00:05:34.941 --> 00:05:39.661 laser manufacturers themselves to develop a neon recycling system. 00:05:40.211 --> 00:05:41.031 neon today. 00:05:41.421 --> 00:05:46.431 Is it's in the atmosphere and you gather the neon out of the atmosphere, 00:05:46.481 --> 00:05:47.731 through a cryogenic process. 00:05:48.331 --> 00:05:52.521 And, that neon is then used, for several applications, but the 00:05:52.521 --> 00:05:54.271 biggest one being for semiconductor. 00:05:55.231 --> 00:05:58.801 So what we decided we were going to do is look at another way of. 00:05:59.106 --> 00:06:01.496 of getting neon to the end user. 00:06:01.516 --> 00:06:07.216 And, in the XMR laser application, the neon is used, but it's not exhausted. 00:06:07.216 --> 00:06:14.776 So as the, as the gas is, exhausted out of laser, it is in very high concentration, 00:06:15.106 --> 00:06:18.026 somewhere in the 96%, range. 00:06:18.076 --> 00:06:21.586 So that is the highest concentration of neon that exists. 00:06:22.036 --> 00:06:25.166 On planet earth is in the exhaust line of this extra laser. 00:06:25.166 --> 00:06:30.656 So we decided to tap into that exhaust line and capture that neon. 00:06:30.996 --> 00:06:34.216 And what we can do is we can actually take it, bring it back 00:06:34.216 --> 00:06:39.291 to our factory and remove any impurities that are in that, neon. 00:06:39.291 --> 00:06:45.001 In that gas and effectively bring it back to the original, specification 00:06:45.001 --> 00:06:47.891 required, for the laser application. 00:06:48.161 --> 00:06:54.051 And so that, because of the two major upsets in less than 10 years 00:06:54.071 --> 00:06:57.541 to the marketplace, there really was a demand to do something about. 00:06:58.126 --> 00:07:01.216 about neon and, how do we make it more sustainable and how do we 00:07:01.216 --> 00:07:03.526 make the supply chain, more robust? 00:07:03.906 --> 00:07:08.946 And so this was a, great opportunity to bring a solution to the marketplace. 00:07:09.296 --> 00:07:10.376 Victoria: Yeah, I think that's really cool. 00:07:10.376 --> 00:07:13.886 And I think most people, myself included, I think of neon and I 00:07:13.896 --> 00:07:22.086 think of, like bar signs, and neon lights and Vegas and elsewhere, etc. 00:07:22.116 --> 00:07:26.816 So I guess, hadn't fully appreciated the role that neon plays in 00:07:26.826 --> 00:07:28.616 semiconductor manufacturing. 00:07:29.956 --> 00:07:32.506 and obviously, it exists around us, right? 00:07:32.506 --> 00:07:36.736 It's as you pointed out, we're breathing it on a, Every day basis, 00:07:37.346 --> 00:07:38.396 as long as we're still breathing. 00:07:38.396 --> 00:07:41.086 So it's, something that's naturally occurring, but has to get 00:07:41.086 --> 00:07:45.226 concentrated, as you point out, for, for the manufacturing processes. 00:07:46.706 --> 00:07:48.276 matt adams: That, yeah, that's absolutely the case. 00:07:48.326 --> 00:07:54.296 And what's also really interesting and unique about the solution is, to, to 00:07:54.306 --> 00:07:57.526 extract neon from the atmosphere, as you mentioned, we're breathing it right now. 00:07:57.876 --> 00:08:01.116 You really need to get down to cryogenic temperatures. 00:08:02.016 --> 00:08:04.046 It's, very energy intensive. 00:08:04.266 --> 00:08:08.096 So when you're using a lot of energy to extract me on from the atmosphere, of 00:08:08.096 --> 00:08:09.756 course, you're creating a lot of carbon. 00:08:10.306 --> 00:08:12.156 There's a whole challenge around managing that. 00:08:12.786 --> 00:08:16.886 But if you recycle neon, with our process, you don't have to 00:08:16.886 --> 00:08:18.076 get to cryogenic temperature. 00:08:18.336 --> 00:08:21.406 So that saves a lot from a CO2 perspective. 00:08:22.706 --> 00:08:26.446 average fab could save maybe a quarter of a million metric tons 00:08:26.566 --> 00:08:32.566 over a five year period, just by, by using a recycled system versus, 00:08:34.541 --> 00:08:36.551 effectively neon out of the atmosphere. 00:08:38.141 --> 00:08:42.311 in our, process, we are able to extract the impurities the source 00:08:42.311 --> 00:08:43.721 that, that the laser itself. 00:08:44.071 --> 00:08:47.611 And, again, without using cryogenic temperature through technologies 00:08:47.611 --> 00:08:50.841 that we have developed in house and restore the neon back to 00:08:50.841 --> 00:08:53.411 its its original specifications. 00:08:53.954 --> 00:08:56.656 Victoria: yeah, and it really makes sense to be able to do that, because it's 00:08:56.656 --> 00:09:01.016 obviously, if it's not getting consumed in the process, it's there to help the 00:09:01.016 --> 00:09:02.676 process, but it's not getting consumed. 00:09:02.676 --> 00:09:08.421 And then, of course, Cleaning the impurities out versus concentrating neon. 00:09:08.421 --> 00:09:11.701 It sounds is far less energy intensive. 00:09:11.711 --> 00:09:15.131 So therefore Theoretically less costly. 00:09:15.131 --> 00:09:16.631 I'm not going to talk about your cost basis. 00:09:16.631 --> 00:09:21.751 That's yours But certainly using less energy Electricity and what 00:09:21.761 --> 00:09:27.671 have you that's required to create neon in its in other formats 00:09:28.716 --> 00:09:29.696 matt adams: Yeah, absolutely. 00:09:29.736 --> 00:09:34.826 And just from a cost perspective, it are our solutions very competitive with, 00:09:35.426 --> 00:09:37.306 the existing supply chain, so to speak. 00:09:37.366 --> 00:09:43.926 And again, you get the GWP benefit versus, the existing supply chain as well. 00:09:44.826 --> 00:09:46.006 in, in, in that. 00:09:46.461 --> 00:09:50.581 When you're looking at that exhaust stream of neon coming out of the laser 00:09:50.661 --> 00:09:56.181 at the 96 percent concentration level versus the, parts per million level in 00:09:56.181 --> 00:10:01.731 the atmosphere, it really makes sense to, to invest in, in, mining that. 00:10:02.091 --> 00:10:05.311 That gas from the exhaust line versus mining it from the atmosphere. 00:10:06.716 --> 00:10:08.176 Victoria: What's your customer response been? 00:10:08.316 --> 00:10:10.666 Was this something they were looking for and they didn't know that 00:10:10.686 --> 00:10:13.886 it was available or they've been happy with what you've been able to 00:10:13.886 --> 00:10:15.586 provide for them with the solution? 00:10:16.189 --> 00:10:16.451 matt adams: Yeah. 00:10:16.471 --> 00:10:21.451 So the feedback really started with the customers going to the 00:10:21.451 --> 00:10:25.221 laser manufacturers themselves and saying, Hey, this is the second time. 00:10:25.221 --> 00:10:27.411 Now, what are we going to do about this? 00:10:27.441 --> 00:10:31.761 And that really spurred the conversation of how can we do this better? 00:10:31.761 --> 00:10:33.101 How can we do it more efficiently? 00:10:34.321 --> 00:10:38.001 and how can we do it more with a more stable supply chain? 00:10:38.001 --> 00:10:44.911 So that sort of spurred that conversation on and we were, we met with, some 00:10:44.911 --> 00:10:48.831 folks in the industry and said, Hey, we think we have a solution here and 00:10:49.451 --> 00:10:55.681 this will make me on, much more stable, the supply chain, our efficiency. 00:10:56.621 --> 00:10:59.071 In our recovery processes is better than 90%. 00:10:59.901 --> 00:11:04.851 So you can imagine if you're recycling, better than 90 percent of the neon 00:11:04.871 --> 00:11:06.151 that's already exists in the world. 00:11:06.151 --> 00:11:08.671 Just how much of an impact that can have on the supply chain. 00:11:10.421 --> 00:11:15.371 the customers demanded this of their supplier of the lasers themselves. 00:11:15.861 --> 00:11:19.341 And that's started us down this path of working together. 00:11:19.741 --> 00:11:25.561 And so we were able to develop work with, the OEMs and develop this 00:11:25.826 --> 00:11:28.846 technology that allows the, neon to recycle. 00:11:28.866 --> 00:11:32.636 So the interest around it is tremendous. 00:11:33.586 --> 00:11:40.676 and we are, actively working with, many fabs on how do we actually go about 00:11:40.936 --> 00:11:45.466 getting this installed and we're doing, all of the detailed engineering reviews 00:11:45.466 --> 00:11:46.886 and line walks and things like that. 00:11:48.906 --> 00:11:53.136 we do believe that this technology is actually expandable, into, 00:11:53.446 --> 00:11:54.666 some other applications. 00:11:55.126 --> 00:11:58.736 That also makes it very interesting, for those end users. 00:11:59.606 --> 00:12:01.406 so far it's been going great. 00:12:01.986 --> 00:12:02.601 Victoria: That's really cool. 00:12:02.601 --> 00:12:06.901 And obviously, ACC awarded you guys the Environmental Protection Award. 00:12:07.231 --> 00:12:11.731 Part of that is really, a big piece of that was this carbon, and greenhouse 00:12:11.731 --> 00:12:16.431 gas reduction, and the potential that provides and really just how 00:12:16.431 --> 00:12:20.321 you've partnered with your, with your customers and with the value chain. 00:12:20.831 --> 00:12:25.961 But I also see this as really part of the overall story of, sustainability 00:12:25.961 --> 00:12:28.941 in semiconductors, circularity, right? 00:12:28.941 --> 00:12:34.521 We talk a lot about circularity in plastics, but the reality is finding 00:12:34.521 --> 00:12:38.961 ways to be circular in multiple products, really, in all products 00:12:38.961 --> 00:12:44.081 across, this manufacturing cycles becomes really critical from an environmental 00:12:44.081 --> 00:12:49.551 perspective, from a cost perspective, and as you point out for your customers 00:12:49.551 --> 00:12:53.081 from a supply chain reliability perspective, it's been really helpful. 00:12:55.109 --> 00:12:56.726 matt adams: Yeah, that, that's absolutely the case. 00:12:56.726 --> 00:13:00.466 If you look at the, fabs themselves, the end users, the manufacturers, these 00:13:00.486 --> 00:13:02.316 computer chips, they all have announced. 00:13:03.141 --> 00:13:04.601 their carbon goals, right? 00:13:05.011 --> 00:13:08.111 Their, sustainability goals, to the marketplace. 00:13:08.191 --> 00:13:10.761 And it's, it's, a Google search away. 00:13:10.761 --> 00:13:12.831 You can see what everyone is committed to. 00:13:13.571 --> 00:13:17.811 And, of course, in the semiconductor world, when you're making computer chip, 00:13:17.831 --> 00:13:19.071 you don't like to make changes, right? 00:13:19.131 --> 00:13:20.991 It's a very complex technology. 00:13:21.091 --> 00:13:25.691 Once you have a sort of your recipe locked in, you don't really want to make changes. 00:13:25.691 --> 00:13:30.766 So there's always this sort of dynamic of How do we do things differently? 00:13:30.766 --> 00:13:31.756 we don't want to make changes. 00:13:33.166 --> 00:13:35.786 but in order to meet your sustainability goals, you do 00:13:35.786 --> 00:13:37.056 need to do things differently. 00:13:38.826 --> 00:13:39.946 For obvious reasons, right? 00:13:39.946 --> 00:13:45.046 So when we can bring these technologies to bear and say, hey, look, at the 00:13:45.046 --> 00:13:46.716 environmental impact this can have. 00:13:48.316 --> 00:13:51.726 and not only that, but look at the impact you can have to your supply 00:13:51.726 --> 00:13:52.946 chain, making sure you have a. 00:13:53.616 --> 00:13:55.296 a sustainable supply chain. 00:13:55.356 --> 00:13:59.516 And no, by the way, on the cost basis, when these neon crises hit 00:14:00.396 --> 00:14:02.966 neon pricing, went through the roof. 00:14:03.506 --> 00:14:06.466 it was, it was multiple times. 00:14:06.746 --> 00:14:13.146 it was, it got like just extremely expensive to source neon, And, neon 00:14:13.146 --> 00:14:17.616 is a rare gas and what happens when something is rare, any type of impact 00:14:17.626 --> 00:14:20.626 to the supply chain, impacts the price. 00:14:20.996 --> 00:14:23.776 And so for the first time, literally ever. 00:14:25.006 --> 00:14:31.106 an end user can have long term sustainable pricing for neon for a rare gas that's 00:14:31.106 --> 00:14:36.446 never been able to be done before because there was no way to have, 00:14:38.126 --> 00:14:41.596 enough visibility and, the ability to. 00:14:42.716 --> 00:14:47.316 To, go, have longterm agreements on a rare gas and something that goes up and 00:14:47.316 --> 00:14:51.316 down and all these things, but not anymore now, because we're getting better than 00:14:51.326 --> 00:14:55.946 90 percent efficiency, we can actually provide longterm sustainable pricing into 00:14:55.946 --> 00:14:57.476 the marketplace for the first time ever. 00:14:58.061 --> 00:14:58.701 Victoria: That's cool. 00:14:58.801 --> 00:14:59.231 That's cool. 00:14:59.241 --> 00:15:04.471 It's really, even a risk management, element for these customers. 00:15:05.311 --> 00:15:09.541 matt adams: Yes, we can take the worry about when's the 00:15:09.541 --> 00:15:10.671 next neon crisis going to hit. 00:15:10.671 --> 00:15:12.641 We can take that completely off the table. 00:15:13.071 --> 00:15:16.841 Victoria: So what's next for EFC in its sustainability journey? 00:15:18.021 --> 00:15:18.261 matt adams: Yeah. 00:15:19.741 --> 00:15:25.461 so for us, recovery of material, recycling material, that's core to what we do. 00:15:25.931 --> 00:15:29.711 And one of the reasons we were able to provide the solution. 00:15:30.256 --> 00:15:33.856 Build it from scratch and provide it very quickly is because we have 00:15:33.856 --> 00:15:37.246 a lot of experience around the recovery and recycling of materials. 00:15:37.806 --> 00:15:41.616 We are the largest recycler of SF6 in North America. 00:15:41.616 --> 00:15:46.556 For example, there's quite a number of materials that we have 00:15:46.556 --> 00:15:48.166 recycling, recovery, recycling. 00:15:49.401 --> 00:15:51.971 On and especially in, the rare gas market, 00:15:52.051 --> 00:15:53.811 Not only neon, but krypton and xenon. 00:15:55.091 --> 00:15:56.221 we have our own equipment division. 00:15:56.221 --> 00:16:02.691 So we design and, engineer, build, recycling systems for various 00:16:02.691 --> 00:16:04.991 applications for various gases. 00:16:05.701 --> 00:16:08.601 in addition, EFC is invested. 00:16:08.991 --> 00:16:14.311 In a, in our own R and D laboratory, an advanced laboratory. 00:16:14.311 --> 00:16:18.491 We've also invested in advanced analytical laboratory with, clean 00:16:18.491 --> 00:16:23.951 room and metals analysis capabilities and our, we've developed an ability 00:16:23.981 --> 00:16:25.601 to synthesize novel chemistry. 00:16:26.631 --> 00:16:30.431 EFC has developed materials that we are now working with. 00:16:31.116 --> 00:16:34.686 The OEMs and the end users, for next generation. 00:16:34.746 --> 00:16:41.356 And what that means is, we can take some of the legacy, gases, etchant materials 00:16:41.356 --> 00:16:45.376 that aren't the most environmentally friendly, materials and replace them 00:16:45.656 --> 00:16:50.926 with new chemistries and, that are much more environmentally friendly and where. 00:16:51.666 --> 00:16:55.936 And where that technology doesn't exist today, we can actually take the 1 that, 00:16:56.086 --> 00:17:01.266 take materials and recycle them using these technologies that we developed 00:17:01.296 --> 00:17:02.816 and the equipment that we've developed. 00:17:04.016 --> 00:17:06.206 yeah, so it's, there's a lot going on. 00:17:07.206 --> 00:17:10.496 around our ability to recover, recycle and develop novel chemistry. 00:17:10.526 --> 00:17:14.376 All that has not only an impact on the supply chain and the stability 00:17:14.376 --> 00:17:18.526 of the supply chain, but also an environmental impact, as well and 00:17:18.526 --> 00:17:20.346 significant environmental impact. 00:17:20.986 --> 00:17:21.476 Victoria: That's great. 00:17:21.916 --> 00:17:22.386 Thank you. 00:17:22.446 --> 00:17:23.536 This has been really cool. 00:17:23.546 --> 00:17:24.856 Thanks for joining us today, Matt. 00:17:25.676 --> 00:17:26.246 matt adams: My pleasure. 00:17:26.246 --> 00:17:27.006 Thanks for having me. 00:17:27.006 --> 00:17:28.976 Victoria: I hope you enjoyed my conversation with Matt. 00:17:29.046 --> 00:17:29.836 I sure did. 00:17:30.666 --> 00:17:32.806 and so many great insights. 00:17:32.866 --> 00:17:38.156 I've learned so much about neon, and its role in the value chain and 00:17:38.216 --> 00:17:44.366 really its role in, the criticality of semiconductors and chips. 00:17:44.736 --> 00:17:49.551 And The things that we are relying on today and into the future. 00:17:49.901 --> 00:17:50.561 So important. 00:17:51.391 --> 00:17:55.721 and really my number one takeaway from that, my interview with Matt 00:17:55.761 --> 00:18:01.831 is necessity creates opportunity and opens the door to innovation, right? 00:18:01.831 --> 00:18:06.501 So if you are a Schoolhouse Rock fan, like I was, as a kid, "Mother 00:18:06.501 --> 00:18:07.931 Necessity, where would we be?" 00:18:08.571 --> 00:18:10.291 Necessity always drives innovation. 00:18:10.911 --> 00:18:18.651 and it's awesome to see how, the EFC gases crew has really taken and embraced 00:18:18.681 --> 00:18:22.671 and created solutions that protect the environment, which is the number one 00:18:22.671 --> 00:18:27.271 thing they've gotten recognized for, but also really strengthens the supply chain 00:18:27.641 --> 00:18:30.281 and doesn't in a really meaningful way. 00:18:31.131 --> 00:18:34.691 in a critical way for our current and future economies. 00:18:34.721 --> 00:18:37.371 Next up is Robert Dishman from Cyclyx. 00:18:37.681 --> 00:18:42.271 Robert and I had a great conversation talking about plastic circularity and 00:18:42.271 --> 00:18:47.921 the unique partnership that started with ExxonMobil and Lyondell Basell 00:18:47.941 --> 00:18:54.961 and Agilyx to come together and find a solution for a critical problem, plastic 00:18:55.001 --> 00:18:59.481 waste, Gathering plastic waste to be able to bring into advanced recycling 00:18:59.661 --> 00:19:01.701 and create a truly circular economy. 00:19:03.251 --> 00:19:07.131 such a critical initiative, but also has since expanded to include a 00:19:07.131 --> 00:19:12.336 number of other companies, including Braskem, Eastman, Saabic, and Total. 00:19:13.166 --> 00:19:14.236 And probably a few others. 00:19:15.346 --> 00:19:16.816 if you're one of them, you can let us know. 00:19:17.496 --> 00:19:21.106 anyway, so I think this is a great story about collaboration across 00:19:21.146 --> 00:19:26.426 companies with the community, because the community of Houston, which is where 00:19:26.436 --> 00:19:32.306 this project has started is so critical in this story and creating solutions, 00:19:32.406 --> 00:19:34.566 innovative solutions to critical problems. 00:19:35.331 --> 00:19:36.871 Listen to Robert, let me know what you think. 00:19:36.871 --> 00:19:40.661 I'm talking with Robert Dishman, who is the VP of Strategic 00:19:40.661 --> 00:19:42.211 Relationships for Cyclyx. 00:19:43.381 --> 00:19:46.921 through his career, he's worked with plastics from collection, 00:19:46.961 --> 00:19:50.781 processing, plastic manufacturing, recycling and environmental 00:19:50.781 --> 00:19:53.681 services at companies big and small. 00:19:53.971 --> 00:19:59.276 And it's really put him in a position to help companies, plastics companies, 00:19:59.316 --> 00:20:03.896 municipalities, solve some of their biggest circularity and environmental 00:20:03.926 --> 00:20:08.826 goals, which is a great fit for what he is doing with Cyclyx. 00:20:09.176 --> 00:20:16.236 Cyclyx is a joint venture formed by Agilyx with its partners ExxonMobil and 00:20:16.236 --> 00:20:21.766 Lyondell Basell where they teamed up to form a company, a consortium to advance 00:20:21.816 --> 00:20:24.006 plastics recycling in North America. 00:20:24.841 --> 00:20:29.241 Talking to Robert today because one of the recognitions that Cyclyx has 00:20:29.241 --> 00:20:34.255 received is they were awarded the External Collaboration Award in 2024 00:20:34.255 --> 00:20:36.671 by the American Chemistry Council. 00:20:36.831 --> 00:20:41.311 So we're going to be talking about partnerships, collaboration, and why 00:20:41.311 --> 00:20:43.951 that is so critical in our world today. 00:20:44.701 --> 00:20:46.371 Robert, welcome to The Chemical Show. 00:20:47.151 --> 00:20:47.451 robert dishman: Thank you. 00:20:47.531 --> 00:20:50.041 Victoria: So tell us a little bit about Cyclyx. 00:20:51.381 --> 00:20:54.601 robert dishman: So, Cyclyx is focused on improving the amount of plastic that is 00:20:54.601 --> 00:20:58.401 currently collected and more importantly, keeping plastic out of the landfill. 00:20:59.141 --> 00:21:02.641 As you mentioned, our approach uses a consortium model that brings industry 00:21:02.651 --> 00:21:07.301 stakeholders to engage and support development of new recovery solutions. 00:21:08.551 --> 00:21:12.291 We leverage chemistry to identify the chemical composition of the plastic. 00:21:12.881 --> 00:21:15.021 to help determine the highest and best use. 00:21:15.091 --> 00:21:18.121 And that could be whether it goes to mechanical or advanced recycling. 00:21:18.171 --> 00:21:23.201 But more importantly, we're focused solely on, reduction of landfill bound plastics. 00:21:23.501 --> 00:21:28.621 Victoria: Yeah, and I think Cyclyx as being polyethylene just I think 00:21:28.631 --> 00:21:32.841 primarily because of the connection with Lyondell Basell and with Exxon 00:21:32.841 --> 00:21:36.861 Mobil, but it sounds like your program actually goes broader than that 00:21:37.491 --> 00:21:37.951 robert dishman: It does. 00:21:37.961 --> 00:21:41.521 We are partners obviously with Exxon and Lyondell, as you mentioned. 00:21:42.291 --> 00:21:43.971 but we are all plastics. 00:21:44.071 --> 00:21:48.621 So if we want to part of our solution is eliminating some of the 00:21:48.621 --> 00:21:50.631 confusion at that point of no return. 00:21:50.851 --> 00:21:54.131 When you get to the curbside container and you're trying to figure out what plastic 00:21:54.131 --> 00:21:59.761 goes in and what doesn't based on local rules and legacy programs, we want to 00:21:59.771 --> 00:22:04.099 take that and eliminate that confusion by saying, if it's plastic, put it in a bag 00:22:04.099 --> 00:22:06.721 and we'll take it and take it to our CCC. 00:22:07.621 --> 00:22:11.341 Victoria: Awesome, so so throughout your career you've played some 00:22:11.341 --> 00:22:16.071 key roles in industry partnerships What makes this partnership 00:22:16.071 --> 00:22:18.881 with Cyclyx or in Cyclyx unique? 00:22:19.461 --> 00:22:22.441 robert dishman: So I think there's several elements that makes this unique. 00:22:22.971 --> 00:22:25.161 one is the consortium model, right? 00:22:25.161 --> 00:22:28.951 We have diverse organizations with different or similar 00:22:28.971 --> 00:22:30.861 challenges in the plastics world. 00:22:30.861 --> 00:22:33.671 As you mentioned earlier, some polyethylene, some polypropylene, 00:22:33.951 --> 00:22:35.731 polystyrene, ABS, whatever. 00:22:36.691 --> 00:22:39.461 we have a combined focus on hard to recycle plastics. 00:22:40.771 --> 00:22:43.451 It's simply the scale and investment in what we're doing. 00:22:43.451 --> 00:22:46.841 And as you mentioned, we have two great partners along with our 00:22:46.841 --> 00:22:51.161 parent company, Agilyx, that have just supplied the capital needed 00:22:51.361 --> 00:22:52.801 to really get this off the ground. 00:22:54.296 --> 00:22:58.716 We have a 20 year database of chemical composition of plastics, 00:22:59.126 --> 00:23:03.056 and we like to say it's the chemistry here that helps us understand. 00:23:03.346 --> 00:23:06.916 And again, I mentioned the highest and best use of plastic. 00:23:07.196 --> 00:23:12.296 That composition helps us determine, is this feedstock that's suitable 00:23:12.296 --> 00:23:15.816 for mechanical recycling or is this feedstock suitable for the 00:23:15.816 --> 00:23:18.196 advanced recycling programs? 00:23:18.226 --> 00:23:18.496 Victoria: Yeah. 00:23:18.746 --> 00:23:21.496 and you have to be fairly sophisticated to be able to do that. 00:23:21.786 --> 00:23:23.206 robert dishman: Yep, absolutely. 00:23:23.636 --> 00:23:23.976 Victoria: Awesome. 00:23:24.136 --> 00:23:29.596 So I know that, beyond its early partners, the consortium has grown, right? 00:23:29.606 --> 00:23:33.966 To encompass a number of other companies, including Braskem, 00:23:34.006 --> 00:23:36.966 Eastman, SABIC, and Total. 00:23:36.966 --> 00:23:38.286 What's been significant about that? 00:23:38.336 --> 00:23:41.756 robert dishman: So I think the unique thing is that, are the members and the 00:23:41.756 --> 00:23:46.026 members that you've mentioned and all have very similar challenges, right? 00:23:46.026 --> 00:23:51.026 And whether it's the specific plastic type or others, it's all trying to 00:23:51.026 --> 00:23:52.466 keep plastic out of the landfill. 00:23:52.466 --> 00:23:54.986 I like to look at our membership in ways that it actually 00:23:55.046 --> 00:23:56.976 amplifies our impact, right? 00:23:57.636 --> 00:24:01.826 the more diverse members we have, the more opportunity for new technologies. 00:24:02.686 --> 00:24:05.876 specific market knowledge, depending on what they're manufacturing and what 00:24:05.876 --> 00:24:10.376 they need support with, other industry partners that they can potentially bring 00:24:10.376 --> 00:24:12.566 to the table to, to provide solutions. 00:24:13.166 --> 00:24:15.776 basically just gives us an additional tool in our toolbox. 00:24:17.096 --> 00:24:20.966 there's market reach that we can talk about with different brands and different 00:24:20.966 --> 00:24:25.856 partners and additional volume into an ecosystem that continues to drive 00:24:25.856 --> 00:24:27.561 innovation and accelerates our progress. 00:24:28.551 --> 00:24:28.861 Victoria: Yeah. 00:24:29.701 --> 00:24:33.081 so a big part of this, and this, whole system doesn't work without 00:24:33.081 --> 00:24:34.661 the consumers getting engaged. 00:24:34.666 --> 00:24:34.976 robert dishman: Mhm. 00:24:35.831 --> 00:24:36.821 Victoria: Can you talk about that? 00:24:37.401 --> 00:24:38.671 what's the engagement? 00:24:38.681 --> 00:24:44.471 How are you guys engaging municipalities and consumers to participate in 00:24:44.961 --> 00:24:46.901 this, economy, this recycling system? 00:24:46.901 --> 00:24:47.041 Okay. 00:24:47.296 --> 00:24:48.826 robert dishman: So the first thing I'd do is I'd like to 00:24:48.866 --> 00:24:51.376 say one, whoever's listening to this, thank you for listening. 00:24:51.376 --> 00:24:51.926 Number one. 00:24:52.176 --> 00:24:55.926 Number two, if you're a municipality or other type of partner and you're 00:24:55.926 --> 00:24:59.746 looking for solutions to your plastic waste and keeping plastic out of your 00:24:59.746 --> 00:25:04.666 landfill, please go to 10 to 90 dot com or Cyclyx dot com and reach out to 00:25:04.666 --> 00:25:09.256 us so we can connect and we can help each other with this as this expands 00:25:09.436 --> 00:25:11.036 and grows throughout North America. 00:25:12.891 --> 00:25:16.751 I think if you look at the community specifically to Houston at this point, 00:25:17.941 --> 00:25:19.971 our results have been extremely positive. 00:25:19.971 --> 00:25:23.711 The feedback from the community, not only the city of Houston, but also 00:25:24.161 --> 00:25:27.811 from the residents of the city of Houston have been really positive. 00:25:28.571 --> 00:25:30.691 we started with one drop off location. 00:25:30.691 --> 00:25:31.521 We're up to nine. 00:25:31.966 --> 00:25:35.796 We're well over half a million pounds of plastic diverted from the landfill at this 00:25:35.796 --> 00:25:41.556 point in time, that material obviously is being stored in anticipation of our, first 00:25:41.556 --> 00:25:47.511 of its kind CCC one opening in Houston, which we're looking for, Q2 of next year 00:25:47.511 --> 00:25:53.626 for that to happen and stay tuned because we're also going to be announcing, CCC 00:25:53.626 --> 00:25:56.856 to the location in Q4 of this year. 00:25:57.601 --> 00:25:58.661 Victoria: Awesome, that's exciting. 00:25:59.211 --> 00:26:01.871 So, tell me a little bit what, because people may not know, 00:26:01.881 --> 00:26:04.129 what is this, what is CCC? 00:26:04.129 --> 00:26:05.231 What is CCC1? 00:26:05.656 --> 00:26:07.556 robert dishman: stands for Cyclyx Circularity Center. 00:26:08.321 --> 00:26:08.591 Victoria: Okay. 00:26:09.546 --> 00:26:12.146 robert dishman: if you compare and contrast it to a traditional MURF 00:26:12.146 --> 00:26:15.186 or a legacy MURF, a legacy MURF. 00:26:15.506 --> 00:26:17.526 On average, about 70, 000 square feet. 00:26:17.536 --> 00:26:18.486 There are some larger. 00:26:18.486 --> 00:26:20.656 There are some smaller, our 00:26:20.981 --> 00:26:23.871 Victoria: being a municipal recycling facility, is that right? 00:26:24.746 --> 00:26:25.456 robert dishman: That is correct. 00:26:25.756 --> 00:26:25.996 Thank 00:26:26.171 --> 00:26:26.471 Victoria: okay. 00:26:26.761 --> 00:26:30.221 We have to, we have so much lingo in our industry, I'm 00:26:30.221 --> 00:26:31.731 always trying to de lingo it. 00:26:32.301 --> 00:26:32.621 robert dishman: We do. 00:26:32.621 --> 00:26:35.241 And I always try to remember to say it out loud when I'm not 00:26:35.241 --> 00:26:36.271 talking within the industry. 00:26:36.851 --> 00:26:38.751 but yes, the material recovery facility. 00:26:40.121 --> 00:26:44.301 so those are basically, if you think about them, a lot of the 00:26:44.301 --> 00:26:48.511 limitations that they have are they're focused on ones and two plastics. 00:26:49.051 --> 00:26:53.531 Some do three through seven, some don't, some do five, some do six, which again 00:26:53.531 --> 00:26:55.901 creates a lot of confusion for consumers. 00:26:56.131 --> 00:26:59.991 If you live in one city today, and you move next week to another city, their 00:26:59.991 --> 00:27:01.471 programs could be vastly different. 00:27:01.901 --> 00:27:06.271 And so we want to make sure that our 10 to 90 program eliminates that confusion. 00:27:06.481 --> 00:27:09.851 And we're looking for more municipal partners to join us in doing that 00:27:10.621 --> 00:27:15.111 with the, hopes of going past just the collection drop off center, but then 00:27:15.111 --> 00:27:16.651 moving into curbside collection as well. 00:27:17.401 --> 00:27:20.811 Victoria: Yes, because it seems like curbside, at least to me, 00:27:20.811 --> 00:27:22.246 seems like the way to go, right? 00:27:22.306 --> 00:27:27.336 Making it easy to participate in the circularity economy. 00:27:27.576 --> 00:27:27.936 Awesome. 00:27:28.626 --> 00:27:33.956 So, you've mentioned CCC1 is going to be starting up next year. 00:27:34.256 --> 00:27:37.316 CCC2 is getting announced later this year. 00:27:37.606 --> 00:27:39.516 What else should we be looking forward to? 00:27:40.826 --> 00:27:45.596 robert dishman: I think, as we mentioned, probably last year sometime, we do have a 00:27:45.656 --> 00:27:47.536 systematic approach to rolling out more. 00:27:48.481 --> 00:27:53.041 CCC's and so there'll be more of those announced in the future as 00:27:53.061 --> 00:27:57.031 we, bring CCC one on and CCC two on. 00:27:58.531 --> 00:28:00.411 we're looking for additional industry partners. 00:28:00.431 --> 00:28:02.621 We're looking for municipal partners, as I mentioned. 00:28:03.511 --> 00:28:07.371 so if you have plastics and you're looking, call your municipality 00:28:07.371 --> 00:28:08.341 and tell them to get ahold of us. 00:28:08.661 --> 00:28:13.221 We're, more than happy to have discussions with them and help facilitate 00:28:13.461 --> 00:28:14.881 diverting plastics from the landfill. 00:28:15.986 --> 00:28:16.306 Victoria: Awesome. 00:28:16.606 --> 00:28:19.026 Robert, thank you for joining us today. 00:28:19.056 --> 00:28:23.766 And congratulations on winning the External Collaboration Award from ACC. 00:28:24.626 --> 00:28:24.936 robert dishman: Great. 00:28:24.936 --> 00:28:25.276 Thank you. 00:28:25.286 --> 00:28:28.046 I'd like to thank you and The Chemical Show for allowing us 00:28:28.066 --> 00:28:29.326 to share the Cyclyx message. 00:28:30.116 --> 00:28:30.666 Victoria: Absolutely. 00:28:30.676 --> 00:28:33.746 Happy to do Thank you for listening today. 00:28:33.786 --> 00:28:39.346 I hope you really enjoyed the insights that I brought, on from Robert Dishman 00:28:39.346 --> 00:28:44.826 at Cyclyx, which was the External Collaborator Award winner from the ACC 00:28:45.096 --> 00:28:50.246 and Matt Adams of EFC Gases, which won the Environmental Protection Award. 00:28:50.716 --> 00:28:52.366 Great stories, great insights. 00:28:52.961 --> 00:28:58.551 Next week, next episode, listen in, we're going to be talking about the 00:28:58.551 --> 00:29:03.211 circularity award winner, social responsibility and community engagement. 00:29:03.536 --> 00:29:07.066 And product safety, innovation, and transparency, all 00:29:07.076 --> 00:29:09.536 three, very critical facets. 00:29:10.276 --> 00:29:11.586 Thank you for listening today. 00:29:11.636 --> 00:29:13.886 Keep listening, keep following, keep sharing. 00:29:13.916 --> 00:29:18.536 And if you are not currently a Chemical Show subscriber, do it. 00:29:19.476 --> 00:29:21.136 number one, follow us on. 00:29:21.681 --> 00:29:26.141 Apple YouTube, whatever your favorite place is to listen to podcasts. 00:29:26.201 --> 00:29:27.421 It definitely matters. 00:29:28.191 --> 00:29:29.771 head to our website, the chemical show. 00:29:30.001 --> 00:29:32.101 com and sign up for our email list. 00:29:32.181 --> 00:29:37.111 I will assure you we do not spam you, but we bring you interesting insight, 00:29:37.171 --> 00:29:40.861 critical insights, making sure you're up to date with what's going on in the 00:29:40.861 --> 00:29:43.271 chemical show and across the industry. 00:29:43.741 --> 00:29:44.691 Thanks for listening. 00:29:44.751 --> 00:29:45.771 I'll talk to you soon.