MUSIC 0:01 I'm Mike Walker. I'm David Patrick. We are DADS on Books "I'm online". "DADS ON Books "Two minutes later" But we are DADS on Books. We're addicted to books, we sit on books, and we even talk about the books. Welcome to another episode, of DADS on Books Mike (00:21) Welcome again to another episode of Dads On. David (00:24) Dads. Books. You had to get the last letter in there, did you? Mike (00:33) I did, I always want to have the last sound. David (00:37) I love it. So flat Stanley is what we're doing here, Mike. Mike (00:42) Flat Stanley it is. David (00:43) Yes, by Jeff Brown. I think I'm pronouncing that correctly. Mike (00:47) ⁓ yes, I was going to go with half a, but there's no a. David (00:49) pictures by... I love it. And then pictures by Toby. Mike (00:57) Tommy Ungerer. Unger? Ungerer. David (01:00) Wow. ⁓ I'm thinking Unger and I was thinking Tomi, don't know why. Maybe she's... Mike (01:06) Tomi. Tomi Ungerer. Where's the stress on that? Ungerer. Ungerer? Un-gerer! David (01:13) It's all over the place, very stressful. Now she could be French, in which case it'd be, ⁓ Mike (01:20) Weh. We always default to French, it's so funny. Tweet tweet. Tweet tweet. I, you. So this is a long story that I'm going to make very, short. Our friend Tim was telling me about this book and I was like, I have no clue what you're talking about. Like, are you crazy? Something about some flat kid? Like, and he's telling me about the story and I'm like, no, I do not remember it. Fast forward to several weeks later, maybe months, I'm not sure. David (01:50) The end. Yeah Mm-hmm. Mike (02:14) But ⁓ I took the older kid down to college two weeks, three weeks ago almost now. ⁓ last weekend was the birthday. went to Worcester, Ohio to celebrate. One of the things that we all love about Worcester is that there's a used bookstore that everyone loves in my family. David (02:41) that's fantastic. I use bookstore in a college town. Mike (02:44) Yeah, But it's basically two floors of wall-to-wall books. You can just be there for hours trying to find what you want until your family says, it's time to go. So that is what happened to us. So we We're at the bookstore and Ruby and I were looking for any book by Dan Gutman because well, we'd like Dan Gutman. And we'd like to mention him because we did, think episode eight or nine was his book, which I always wanted to change the name of for some reason, but it's green. It's green, it's Halloween. I'm green, it's Halloween. That's what it's called. David (03:16) Yes we do. Yes. Okay. Mike (03:33) unlike it's Halloween I need a spleen or it's Halloween David (03:37) It's not, it's Halloween, I'm tired, I will lean. Mike (03:42) Yes, yes, something like that. So anyway. David (03:45) It's Halloween. I'm turning green. Mike (03:47) did say that right then, no? I don't know. We'll go back and listen. Anyway, so I'm looking for more of Dan's books and I did come across some of them. All of the weird, weirder, weirdest school books were all on the shelf. But then Ruby found some other ones that were not the weirder school books somewhere else in the actual. David (03:49) You're awesome. I don't know. Mm-hmm. Mike (04:13) G section of children, young adult, don't, old children. I don't know what age range it is anymore because there you go, because that's what we are. so I'm looking through, found like I have seven books in my hand and there's like this thing that looks like an old record file, like just standing up so you can flip through and David (04:20) Childlike adults, could it be? Yes. Mm-hmm. Mike (04:41) I look and I book. David (04:46) ⁓ wow! Okay. Mm-hmm. Mike (04:47) Flat Stanley. And it looks fairly new. Like, I'm not sure if the dimple in it down here is my fault or, you know, being in my backpack several times. But it was in perfect condition, really. And I picked it up and I was like, I know this book. And I remembered the pictures. So I started flipping through. I'm like, is this really, yep, I'm totally remembering all of this now. David (04:58) Mm-hmm So now you're flashing back to the story Tim told you about. Okay. Mike (05:16) So, I had- Completely. So when we got back and we're talking about it, I'm like, okay, this is a great book because it is a book that I read as a child. And it is a book that somebody else sort of recommended. it, you know, two check David (05:27) ⁓ So when Tim told you about it a few weeks ago, you didn't remember it from you reading it until you stumbled upon an actual copy of the book at the used bookstore in Worcester, Ohio. Wow. Now we cut to last week when you said, quote, have you heard of flat Stanley? End quote. And I basically said, wait, is that a book? Because Mike (05:37) I did not remember it at all. Exactly. Exactly even. David (06:01) In the early aughts when my brother Michael and I, so not you, but the other Mike of my life, although he's a Michael, he's not a Mike. So Mike, when Michael and I were living in LA, my nephew and nieces at the time were grade school age. And I have a memory of my sister-in-law, Sheila, saying, Hey, I'm going to send you and uncle Michael a flat Stanley. Can you take. Mike (06:09) That's right. David (06:27) pictures of him at various LA landmarks. Mike (06:31) that is so funny. David (06:33) And I, this is going to happen more than once in this episode. I've done research and homework. spoke to, yeah, I spoke to the aforementioned aunt Sheila this morning. And she said, yes, the teachers had them read flat Stanley book books. I've discovered there are more than one and Mike (06:39) Whoa. Yep. David (06:55) The teacher gave the kids laminated paper flat Stanleys and they said, mail these to friends and family in different places in the world and have them take pictures of flat Stanley in Paris and Los Angeles. I remember trying to take a picture of flat Stanley with the Hollywood sign in the back because Mike Michael and I were in LA. And so she said, and there was cross-curricular geography, but also Mike (07:15) That's awesome. David (07:22) a picture of Flat Stanley on the subway, a picture of Flat Stanley in the car. And, you know, this is second or third grade. And they also said if you don't know anybody in other places, you can just do them at different locations in Dallas, like the Cotton Bowl or the Arboretum. So I remembered that. I had no idea there was a book. Mike (07:39) That is awesome. I love it. David (07:41) Mine, mine is really Yeah. And it has in the back, I got it at the Holy Trinity Catholic School Library. And that's where my girls go to school. And it has the old fashioned library card with all the dates stamped on it. Yep. And it goes back as far as the mid nineties, March 3rd, 1997. That's a year before I met you actually. Mike (07:44) Whoa. Wow. I love it. Whoa. Holy cow. David (08:11) Now, the school started in 94, but this book, I mean, it says, text copyright 1964. So the book is actually older than me. Mike (08:25) that is crazy. And I totally believe that because my mind actually says text copyright 1964 comma 1972. Picture copyright 1974. David (08:37) Okay. Mike (08:41) But that doesn't really make sense. Maybe they just didn't have them copyrighted knows? So let's talk about the book. Nine minutes into the episode. David (08:51) Wow, that's a record for us, but in the wrong direction. Mike (08:55) Exactly. We've been so good about this. so it starts out the very first day that Stanley becomes flat. And I'll leave it to you to find out how that happens. But basically, it's about Stanley, who has been flattened. into a very thick piece of paper basically and his exploits around town and in museums catching bad guys doing stuff that only flat person could do. David (09:25) Mm-hmm. Exactly. ⁓ and they weren't bad guys, Mike. They were sneak feeds. Mike (09:36) I was just trying to get around that so we didn't have to, you know, make some weird noise and go, bar bar, sneak alert, sneak alert. David (09:41) Talk about it. Well, I have to tell you something. I just had a discovery while I was telling you about when this book was published. I was surprised to see it was published in 1964 because I had thought, I thought it was 1944. That's important because I read the entire book thinking it was published in 1944. Mike (09:48) So. well. I can totally see that because that's one of the things that I wanted to talk about. David (10:11) Oh, very cool. Should we talk about it now or? OK, so I thought it was 1964. I. I'm sorry, 1944 because for two reasons, A, I thought I read 1944, but it does seem very dated. Mike (10:13) Yeah, we should. Let's do it. And why is that? It seems very dated. Very, very. David (10:33) Yes. And I didn't, it wasn't like, and then he listened to the Beatles and I thought, wait a second, that's not 1944. It really looked, it looked, it looked and sounded like it was 1944. There was no indication that I missed it by 20 years. Mike (10:41) Ha ⁓ I agree with you. was sitting there looking at it going, my gosh, even on the picture inside of the book. that's not flat Stanley. it's, flat Stanley and his family in his bedroom. And you look up at the shelf and there's like a beach ball or basketball, maybe a car. that totally looks like something from the fifties or forties. A howitzer, is that what that is? With a couple of army guys and a toolbox and they all look like they're super old, like forties-ish. Forties, maybe fifties. I thought, I was thinking more fifties because the car reminds me more of a fifties car, but... And then the plane as well. David (11:20) It's yet. Yep, and yeah. Yes. Mike (11:40) Like that could be from World War II. It's got a propeller. David (11:40) Yes. Well, and now that, yeah, you know, it's definitely, well, here's the deal. It's definitely a World War II era plane. But if I'd been really paying attention, I would have gone, wait a second. Were they making model airplanes from World War II for kids to play with during World War II? Probably not. But, you know, and I grew up in the 70s and 80s and I was playing with World War II stuff and that howitzer and those two army men, the classic Mike (12:04) not. You're correct. sure. David (12:14) army men I'm gonna play with. but yeah, but it's still very, so the question 1964, did they do these drawings to look more old timey than 1964? And they probably did. Mike (12:15) Yeah. Right. And they probably did. as much as we could go on and on about the pictures, then I want point out in the same way that the story sounds super old. It's funny because it's something David (12:42) totally. Mike (12:46) gosh said Arthur, Stanley's flat as a pancake said Mr. Lamb chop. ⁓ and then. David (12:51) Heavens I was gonna say heavens and gosh, interjections that would not get it an R rating today. I'm sorry, ahead. Mike (13:00) No, darndest thing I've ever seen. Let's all have breakfast, Mrs. Lambchop said. You're with your family. who's... there's a narrator? A reading telling us about this? I don't know. It's just funny. David (13:18) Yeah, no, it's very funny. And I noticed that too. Heavens and gosh and darn-dist. We should have a language alert thing here at the beginning of this. Warning, warning, bad language. Robins and... Yeah, I loved all that stuff. And so it was very funny for me to realize, yep, I misunderstood the the book did not let me down. Mike (13:24) Darnedest. Whack, whack, whack, language or lurk? Danger language, Robinson. Anyway. So I'm gonna pick out my very favoritest part of this book. And it is part of one of the pictures or drawings, which I did love that when I picked it up, I was like, this is perfect for David because on the cover, what does it say? Pictures by, so no illustration, Ilya, Ilya. David (14:08) Yes! I didn't have to try to say that I word! Mike (14:13) Yes, exactly. But speaking of eyes, thanks for the lead in. If you, I don't have page numbers, but it's when, when Stanley goes to the doctor and they're measuring him and the nurses there. And I just, because we've been looking at pictures so much. Exactly. David is pointing out the thing that I would like to talk about. And that is that the eye has it. David (14:19) You're welcome. Yeah, mine doesn't either. Mike (14:44) And if you look at the picture and you go A B C D E F G H. Where does it end? I, which I thought was hilarious. David (15:02) I agree. As I roll my eyes. Mike (15:08) Yeah, it's hard to roll just one. Anyway. David (15:10) But you know, and that's, I'll bet that was on purpose. And I, and I wonder if Tommy Tommy drew that and was thinking, I wonder if Jeff's going to figure this out. Let's find out. mean, who knows if I were an Iliastrager, that's, those are the kinds of shenanigans I would do. that's one of your favorite parts of the book. Mike (15:13) Absolutely, that is definitely an on purpose thing. Tommy Tommy. Yeah, exactly. shenanigans. ⁓ Yep. I mean, I like the book as a whole, but it just, it, seems very, very dated at this point. David (15:38) It does. And I have ⁓ many favorite parts, but one of them was, And again, the dated thing, now makes me wonder. Well, first of all, when they put flat Stanley in an envelope to send him instead of having to pay for a plane ticket. they made him an egg salad sandwich with very thin bread and a flat cigarette case filled with milk. Mike (15:53) Yes. That's pretty funny. Yes. David (16:05) First of all, I'm going, okay, cigarette. That's not often mentioned in kids books these days. A cigarette case filled with milk? I look at the picture and go, wait, what? Mike (16:08) Yes. Not really. I'm not even sure how that works, but growing up, I must have read this and thought, that would be so much fun because I thought, ⁓ I could do that, but I could just get in a little box. It probably that much to send me somewhere. I was tiny. David (16:18) Hahaha Right, exactly. Were you really? But you weren't flat, were you flat? Mike (16:38) Yes. ⁓ Well, sort of. I was very skinny. I think I started high school, so ninth or 10th grade, I think I was like 120 pounds and 5'10". There's a reason a girl in my eighth class called me toothpick, which I took as a bad thing at first, but then... David (16:42) haha wow. ⁓ wow. Aww. Mike (17:04) I realized she meant it as a term of endearment, I think. Yeah. David (17:08) Aw, that's so cute. Mike (17:10) So. David (17:11) I had another favorite part. I mention one more favorite? Mike (17:13) You can do whatever you want. David (17:16) when they learned of the sneakery of the thieves, and I won't say more, don't wanna do spoiler alert, but the guard who's worried about this thing, he says, I fear it is hopeless, hopeless, hopeless. The triple hopeless, thought, my, this is such 1944, see? Mike (17:20) Yes. Yes, we don't. This is so Humphrey. David (17:38) It is. I love that. I didn't catch that. You're right. But also it says suddenly, because Stanley has an idea, suddenly as if an electric light bulb had lit up in the air above his head. And Mike, this is what I referred to earlier. I went out of character and I did research. well, I found out that the idea of the light bulb standing for an idea. Mike (17:57) did you find out? Mm-hmm. David (18:04) predates this book, even when I thought it was 1944. Because I'm like, my gosh, is this the source? Is this the origin of the light bulb? No, it dates back to the 1800s with Thomas Edison, et cetera. But I just thought it was very funny because the way they describe it as if this is this new idea they had. Mike (18:25) I do love that picture too. The light bulb really makes it look like the light is blasting out into the dark. They did a really nice job with that. Good job, Tommy. David (18:33) Yes, ⁓ it is really cool. Way to go, Tomes. Hey, two things. Now that I'm looking at that picture, when I spoke to my sister-in-law, she was trying to describe how she remembered Flat Stanley from the early aughts. And she said, yeah, he had like a striped shirt. And I was looking throughout the book and saying, well, he wears different things based on, but in this case, in the light bulb idea thing, he's got a very subtly striped shirt. Yes. Mike (18:41) Yes. Yes. Very subtle, indeed. David (19:03) And it wouldn't be a lovelily illustrated book if I didn't talk about the color palette. In addition to probably black ink, Mike, tell us how many other colors there are in the entire book. Mike (19:10) Yes. I have no idea, but I'm going to guess two. ⁓ Three. David (19:18) It's actually well, yes, and there's a reason why it's two or three. There's definitely red and there's definitely green and there are places where there's brown but there are other places where the brown is very clearly created by blending red and green. Mike (19:34) Yeah David (19:36) like they intentionally or Tommy Tommy intentionally the green and red to make brown. But anyway, yes, very simply colored, but still very creative and paints really amazing. Yeah. So Mike (19:45) Very, very creative. Yeah, I really dug the pictures and the artwork in this. I think it was really terrific. ⁓ The story could use a little updating, in my opinion. Yeah. Go on. Yes. David (20:00) It could. That being said, there is one thing that actually makes more sense now. ⁓ flat Stanley towards the end is sad, because everyone's making fun of how flat he is. Like, I don't know if say, for example, I'll pull this out of the random, if someone called somebody toothpick when they were growing up, for example. Mike (20:13) Yeah. Yep. David (20:21) Well, he was sad and his mom, Mrs. Landchop says, shame on them. It is wrong to dislike people for their shapes their religion for that matter or the color of their skin. The date mix up that I got makes more sense I thought, wow, how forward thinking was that for 1944? Well, 1964, that's like right in the thick of the civil rights movement. So it makes more sense. Yeah, it totally does. So. Mike (20:45) So that makes a lot more sense. Yeah, definitely. I actually saw that as well. ⁓ And at some point I stopped taking notes and putting little cats in there because my little sticky notes are cats. ⁓ David (21:04) Are you blind when you're born? Sorry. I know. I like it. It's a good musical. Whatever. Mike (21:06) ⁓ God, not again. But okay, whatever. We will agree to disagree one day. We'll talk about it. ⁓ but not now. Cause now I just wanted to say, as soon as you started talking about it, was like, that's the other thing that I wanted to talk about because I agree a hundred percent. It's it kind of. David (21:15) Yes. When we do a TS. Mike (21:31) hit me out of left field as well, ⁓ that they really talked about everything, race, religion, color of skin, all of that. So shape. So it was really, it was like, ⁓ very cool. So, and I inadvertently brought it up by being the toothpick, but I remember that feeling, you know? So that's probably why. David (21:39) Shape. Yes. Mike (22:01) I thought of it or thought of that passage when I kind of sat there thinking about it for a while after I read it. And I was like, man, that's, it's powerful. So. David (22:14) Mm hmm. Well, and one of the things that makes it powerful to me is that it's it's almost a throwaway line. They're not banging us over the head with it, but it's in there and it's real and it's followed with I know Stanley says only maybe it's impossible for everybody to like everybody. But Mrs. Lamb Chop says perhaps, but they can try. That was pretty cool. Mike (22:24) Yeah. Yes. Yeah. David (22:43) But while we're on ⁓ poignant moments, ⁓ his little brother Arthur and Stanley have some really touching bonding moments towards the end. And I don't want to, I'll just leave it at that because the way it's written, I wrote my little, ⁓ I don't have cat markers in my book, but I'm such not a cool cat. But my torn to shreds, ⁓ Mike (23:02) Yep, well, you're not cool like me. David (23:12) Post-its, it just says, aw. Mike (23:13) Yep. David (23:18) And from a story from a storytelling element, the younger brother is always so complainy and, and, and understandably envious of all the attention Stanley is getting. So it's really, really sweet to have them, you know, kind of bond. And it's just. Mike (23:27) Yep. Yes, and it reminds me of my children. You know, Ruby's always wanting to help out. And a lot of times she does. But I can totally see where she kind of is like, well, but I want to be, I want to do the cool things you do, you know, when she was four. David (23:53) Haha, yeah. Mike (23:55) ⁓ But yeah, that's cool. Good book. David (23:59) Yeah, good book. Totally recommend it. Mike (24:02) Me too. David (24:03) Dang! ⁓ Mike (24:04) well, thanks for, thanks again for listening to our silly little podcast. David (24:10) Yes, and also may I say to everyone, all of our listeners, if you have any fun stories about either you when you were a child doing the flat Stanley thing, or if as a parent your children did it, you can email us and Mike tell them how they can do that. Mike (24:23) They can do that by emailing dads on books at gmail.com. David (24:30) Yes, so we do read the email, so please email us any stories you have about flat Stanley from over the years. Mike (24:35) And how about this? If you have pictures of that where you took pictures and ⁓ sent Flat Stanley out, post them online and tag us. David (24:50) I love it. That's a great idea. And my sister-in-law, Sheila, she even said she might have some. And I said, yeah, look those. Get those. it. Mike (24:52) Yeah. Yeah, so cool. So we'll put some of ours up on our Facebook and Instagram and hopefully other people will join in. Thanks again for listening. David (25:13) Thanks everyone, see you next time. Hear you, listen to you, talk to you. Mike (25:17) Whatever. Bye.