WEBVTT NOTE This file was generated by Descript 00:00:05.581 --> 00:00:06.581 CJ: Welcome to build and learn. 00:00:06.581 --> 00:00:07.451 My name is CJ. 00:00:07.916 --> 00:00:11.956 Colin: And I'm Colin, and we are back to catch up on what we're building, 00:00:11.956 --> 00:00:16.956 what we're learning after a few little tech snafus, we are, we are back. 00:00:17.291 --> 00:00:17.801 CJ: Yeah. 00:00:18.201 --> 00:00:19.761 What do you Okay, so now? 00:00:19.781 --> 00:00:20.491 Yeah, what do you think? 00:00:20.781 --> 00:00:21.801 What do you think it was? 00:00:22.121 --> 00:00:23.751 We got like, totally kicked out? 00:00:24.011 --> 00:00:24.591 Totally. 00:00:24.591 --> 00:00:26.651 Ah, 00:00:26.826 --> 00:00:30.696 Colin: a lot with the different USB hubs that are out there. 00:00:31.086 --> 00:00:35.866 So I used to have a CalDigit hub and for some reason, so like what 00:00:35.866 --> 00:00:40.966 I'm talking on right now is an XLR mic with a Focusrite Scarlett Solo. 00:00:41.541 --> 00:00:45.871 And then I have a Sony, I think it's a 1000 or something like that. 00:00:46.321 --> 00:00:50.361 Camera is my my camera and we don't even use the video for this. 00:00:50.361 --> 00:00:54.091 So it's kind of overkill, but like, for some reason, the CalDigit 00:00:54.101 --> 00:00:55.841 cannot power both of those. 00:00:56.321 --> 00:00:59.461 If I plug each of those things into my Mac, it works fine, 00:00:59.461 --> 00:01:00.891 but wasn't enough ports. 00:01:01.171 --> 00:01:07.411 To do all that and have like a monitor so I had another hub and I was like 00:01:07.471 --> 00:01:11.531 trying to daisy chain them which made it worse and it's unclear when when 00:01:11.531 --> 00:01:15.451 these companies make them because it's supposed to be I think each of the USB 00:01:15.661 --> 00:01:19.956 C ports are supposed to be thunderbolts but I don't think that's the case. 00:01:20.526 --> 00:01:23.686 So it's just tricky because they all look the same, but like some of them are 00:01:23.746 --> 00:01:25.096 Thunderbolt and some of them are not. 00:01:25.486 --> 00:01:27.686 And so you have to know like which one is which. 00:01:27.686 --> 00:01:31.626 And so ultimately I, I kind of wanted to get a new monitor for 00:01:31.656 --> 00:01:33.586 another reason for a gaming reason. 00:01:33.986 --> 00:01:38.276 And so I, I used to have a gaming monitor here at work and now I've 00:01:38.276 --> 00:01:42.236 moved the monitor home to use for Microsoft Flight Simulator. 00:01:42.736 --> 00:01:50.571 And and my new work computer is one of the Apple studio displays because it has four. 00:01:50.991 --> 00:01:55.691 USB and one Thunderbolt on the back, which it's from Apple. 00:01:55.711 --> 00:01:58.161 So I don't understand why they're not all Thunderbolt ports. 00:01:58.651 --> 00:02:00.081 Like just make them all Thunderbolt. 00:02:00.101 --> 00:02:01.021 I don't understand. 00:02:01.701 --> 00:02:05.431 Maybe it's an interoperability thing with non Apple stuff that they want to 00:02:05.431 --> 00:02:07.681 make sure that you can use everything. 00:02:07.681 --> 00:02:12.531 But I had everything running into the studio display and then into my Mac 00:02:12.531 --> 00:02:14.781 with one with one card, which is great. 00:02:15.216 --> 00:02:18.236 And I've been able to use that in calls at work and stuff all week 00:02:18.596 --> 00:02:22.956 just until we joined Zoncaster and then everything just stopped working. 00:02:23.116 --> 00:02:23.526 So, 00:02:23.996 --> 00:02:26.306 CJ: That I don't know how that's not a thing, right? 00:02:26.326 --> 00:02:29.716 Like we went through the pandemic, every company should be understanding that 00:02:29.716 --> 00:02:34.766 we want to sit down and plug in one cable and have all of our stuff work. 00:02:35.036 --> 00:02:38.856 And then if we want to go sit at the coffee shop, we can just unplug the one 00:02:38.856 --> 00:02:40.666 cable, go to the coffee shop and sit down. 00:02:41.156 --> 00:02:44.846 We shouldn't have to plug in 25 different cables to get our camera and 00:02:44.846 --> 00:02:50.016 our mic and our, uh, yeah, the monitors and whatever, all up and running. 00:02:50.016 --> 00:02:50.976 It's so frustrating. 00:02:50.986 --> 00:02:53.286 I don't know how it's, this is like not a solved thing. 00:02:53.556 --> 00:02:55.616 Colin: It has to be an interoperability thing. 00:02:55.616 --> 00:02:57.886 Cause I can't imagine you're in a meeting and you're like, we're 00:02:57.886 --> 00:02:59.146 going to put four ports on it. 00:02:59.706 --> 00:03:03.896 One of them is going to have all of the throughput, but what if we added 00:03:03.916 --> 00:03:05.326 three that only do a little bit? 00:03:05.676 --> 00:03:09.896 It's like something's up there that it has to be for a reason. 00:03:09.926 --> 00:03:12.486 It's probably costing components and stuff too. 00:03:12.886 --> 00:03:18.661 And this monitor you is not cheap by any means, but like I spend so much time 00:03:18.661 --> 00:03:23.781 in front of this screen that it's just, I can already tell a huge difference. 00:03:23.811 --> 00:03:29.781 And I had like this crazy, like FPS, you know, gaming monitor and I'm writing code. 00:03:29.781 --> 00:03:31.631 So I don't need to have that. 00:03:31.701 --> 00:03:35.231 And now that's at home where I can actually take advantage of that stuff. 00:03:35.241 --> 00:03:35.641 So, 00:03:36.191 --> 00:03:37.041 CJ: Mm hmm. 00:03:37.231 --> 00:03:37.631 Nice. 00:03:38.151 --> 00:03:38.541 Colin: yeah. 00:03:39.401 --> 00:03:42.881 CJ: Yeah, I, the other thing that has been interesting lately is we've been 00:03:42.881 --> 00:03:47.531 using tuple a lot for pair programming and this week mob programming, which 00:03:47.531 --> 00:03:48.711 we'll get into a little bit later. 00:03:48.711 --> 00:03:53.431 But one thing that I learned this week was about. 00:03:53.496 --> 00:03:57.596 The tuple multiple cursors versus single cursor. 00:03:58.026 --> 00:04:00.446 Cause a couple of times I joined the calls and people were 00:04:00.446 --> 00:04:01.426 like, whoa, what just happened? 00:04:01.446 --> 00:04:02.566 Someone stole my cursor. 00:04:02.566 --> 00:04:03.516 I can't move it anymore. 00:04:03.916 --> 00:04:05.166 And I was like, what the heck is going on? 00:04:05.166 --> 00:04:07.166 And I think I had like the single cursor. 00:04:07.491 --> 00:04:11.031 And maybe my mouse was just like ever so slightly moving across the screen. 00:04:11.031 --> 00:04:12.891 And so like nobody could do it or something. 00:04:13.391 --> 00:04:19.711 And so because of just a little bit of drift and some one small config it 00:04:19.711 --> 00:04:21.121 kind of like jammed up the whole thing. 00:04:21.131 --> 00:04:23.211 And so I thought maybe it was something like that. 00:04:23.221 --> 00:04:27.261 Like I know to make tuple do what it does, I'm sure they've got to do 00:04:27.261 --> 00:04:31.351 a lot of like wild operating system stuff to take over and then present 00:04:31.351 --> 00:04:34.601 multiple cursors and things, but yeah, 00:04:34.681 --> 00:04:36.821 Colin: and, and with very little latency, right? 00:04:36.831 --> 00:04:41.131 Like you've got those mouse changes happening on multiple 00:04:41.141 --> 00:04:44.451 screens across time and space. 00:04:44.451 --> 00:04:57.591 Nice. 00:04:57.676 --> 00:05:02.306 CJ: we've been doing these mob pairing sessions for one 00:05:02.346 --> 00:05:04.536 hour in the mornings a day. 00:05:05.221 --> 00:05:10.541 One of us will volunteer to just write code or like do a project that 00:05:10.541 --> 00:05:12.901 we have on our plate for that day. 00:05:12.941 --> 00:05:16.491 And everyone on the team follows along, which right now it's just 00:05:16.491 --> 00:05:19.261 four of us, so it's nice and cozy. 00:05:19.371 --> 00:05:22.521 And eventually as we grow, I think it'll be a kind of a cool way, but 00:05:22.891 --> 00:05:26.761 definitely a great way to cross pollinate different things that people 00:05:26.761 --> 00:05:29.771 are doing, like not only just showing what they're working on, but how they 00:05:29.771 --> 00:05:31.661 approach problems and how they debug. 00:05:31.661 --> 00:05:33.911 And so we had Drew. 00:05:34.261 --> 00:05:38.701 Go through and show us some you X UI changes based on kind of 00:05:38.701 --> 00:05:42.421 like how he approaches thinking through those those problems. 00:05:42.421 --> 00:05:48.211 And then Nick showed us some cool stuff about how to fine tune GPT and 00:05:48.271 --> 00:05:50.581 like a bunch of Python tools for. 00:05:51.391 --> 00:05:55.541 You know, like building out your JSON L files and then also just like training. 00:05:55.631 --> 00:05:59.231 And then Mike showed us some react native stuff, just kind of walking 00:05:59.231 --> 00:06:03.141 through, this is the react native app and kind of how to start it and how to 00:06:03.141 --> 00:06:06.931 run it and how to debug, you know, how do you actually open the debugger, like 00:06:06.931 --> 00:06:10.901 the console to see your console logs and things like that and react native. 00:06:11.341 --> 00:06:14.371 So that, that mob programming thing has been pretty fun and 00:06:14.371 --> 00:06:15.431 like a really cool way to learn. 00:06:15.431 --> 00:06:17.111 So yeah, really, really enjoyed that. 00:06:17.996 --> 00:06:18.486 Colin: That's cool. 00:06:18.486 --> 00:06:23.996 It's kind of a fun way to kind of push forward the culture and knowledge 00:06:23.996 --> 00:06:25.466 to and spread it out a little bit. 00:06:25.466 --> 00:06:28.926 So we we do some knowledge shares, but they tend to be 00:06:28.926 --> 00:06:30.866 like slide presentations about 00:06:30.921 --> 00:06:30.961 CJ: Hmm. 00:06:30.961 --> 00:06:31.841 Mm 00:06:32.506 --> 00:06:33.536 Colin: getting in and doing it. 00:06:33.546 --> 00:06:36.246 I like that idea of like, I'm going to work on this anyway. 00:06:36.796 --> 00:06:42.001 And so I'm going to open up, you know, tuple or whatever and let other people 00:06:42.011 --> 00:06:46.121 join in, even if it's just to watch, ask questions might actually keep me 00:06:46.121 --> 00:06:50.451 more on task to get it, getting it done faster when other people are watching. 00:06:51.606 --> 00:06:52.926 CJ: Do you do a lot of pairing? 00:06:53.681 --> 00:06:58.891 Colin: Not really, no I did a little bit more at Orbit when, when time zones 00:06:58.891 --> 00:07:02.101 worked, but not, not so much today. 00:07:02.211 --> 00:07:05.531 Most of it's marked down and, or like sample apps and just 00:07:05.551 --> 00:07:06.671 trying to get things running. 00:07:06.671 --> 00:07:11.101 And that voice thing that I was tinkering with, I might need to pair with somebody 00:07:11.101 --> 00:07:15.591 on just because it still isn't working, but yeah, maybe that's an area where we 00:07:15.591 --> 00:07:17.281 might be able to add more, more of that. 00:07:17.281 --> 00:07:27.156 Yes. 00:07:27.716 --> 00:07:31.106 CJ: who I think the first time I met him, like four years ago or 00:07:31.106 --> 00:07:33.176 something he was like, Oh yeah. 00:07:33.176 --> 00:07:34.616 Anytime you want to pair, just let me know. 00:07:34.616 --> 00:07:36.786 We should, we should like set up some pairing sessions. 00:07:37.376 --> 00:07:40.116 And I learned so much from him. 00:07:40.116 --> 00:07:41.036 It was wild. 00:07:41.096 --> 00:07:45.196 So we paired a lot on the code gen pipelines for Stripe. 00:07:45.376 --> 00:07:47.756 Like as I think I was working on. 00:07:48.216 --> 00:07:49.146 Code gen for stripe. 00:07:49.356 --> 00:07:49.706 net. 00:07:49.796 --> 00:07:53.436 And he was working on like the underlying framework that was like for 00:07:53.436 --> 00:07:54.846 building all of the code gen tools. 00:07:55.346 --> 00:07:58.166 And so he would jump in and just teach me like a million things in 00:07:58.176 --> 00:07:59.566 an hour or two hours or whatever. 00:07:59.566 --> 00:08:03.366 And then that ended up being something where I was like, okay, Hey, this 00:08:03.366 --> 00:08:04.426 is like a really valuable thing. 00:08:04.426 --> 00:08:06.926 I should set up more pairing sessions with more people so that I can learn 00:08:06.926 --> 00:08:10.086 from them and you know, maybe there's a couple of things they'll pick up from me. 00:08:10.106 --> 00:08:14.466 And I think it decreases a lot of back and forth over Slack and decreases a 00:08:14.466 --> 00:08:16.306 lot of back and forth over like GitHub. 00:08:16.601 --> 00:08:18.151 PRs sometimes too. 00:08:18.151 --> 00:08:20.431 And so yeah, I don't know. 00:08:20.591 --> 00:08:26.191 I'm really curious to see how this mob pairing thing goes into the future. 00:08:26.201 --> 00:08:29.831 I think we expect maybe to do like one a week going forward. 00:08:29.881 --> 00:08:33.351 So yeah, I'll try to report back and see how it impacts 00:08:33.351 --> 00:08:34.511 our small team at Kraftwerk. 00:08:35.201 --> 00:08:35.221 Colin: Yeah. 00:08:35.231 --> 00:08:35.461 Nice. 00:08:35.971 --> 00:08:36.151 Yeah. 00:08:36.151 --> 00:08:37.811 I liked the idea of a Polish week too. 00:08:37.811 --> 00:08:42.501 I mean, I think a lot of companies try to do some sort of like, I dunno, bug 00:08:42.501 --> 00:08:47.966 bashes don't always feel super satisfying because if it's like if it was important 00:08:48.086 --> 00:08:52.796 it should just be prioritized into normal work but I get it there's sometimes 00:08:52.796 --> 00:08:57.406 where it's just like here's a whole basket of things that one on one they 00:08:57.406 --> 00:09:00.346 might not take very much time but they just there's always something that's 00:09:00.346 --> 00:09:04.711 more important and we're gonna Just take a week, pause, and just get through 00:09:04.711 --> 00:09:06.501 a bunch of that, you know, tech debt. 00:09:06.501 --> 00:09:10.101 And then some of them, in like the case of Discord, some of them are just like low 00:09:10.101 --> 00:09:14.741 hanging fruit that like we can ship and developers are super excited because they 00:09:14.751 --> 00:09:16.171 thought they were never going to get it. 00:09:16.251 --> 00:09:17.791 And we, we shipped it. 00:09:17.811 --> 00:09:18.171 So, 00:09:19.231 --> 00:09:22.661 CJ: Yeah, this was actually Drew's idea and I think Drew 00:09:22.661 --> 00:09:24.991 and Mike put it on the calendar. 00:09:25.706 --> 00:09:30.726 In August, they put it in on the calendar in November and then it just showed up 00:09:30.736 --> 00:09:33.176 and we're like, okay, I guess this is the week where we're going to polish stuff. 00:09:33.666 --> 00:09:39.026 And it's so yeah, polish week is kind of like any sort of cleanup you want to do. 00:09:39.026 --> 00:09:42.526 Like anytime you leave a comment in your code, that's like to do make sure 00:09:42.526 --> 00:09:46.776 this works in this edge case, or, you know, you've got some tests that are 00:09:46.776 --> 00:09:49.496 commented out, or you've got, in our case. 00:09:50.196 --> 00:09:53.876 In the early days I was scaffolding just like a ton of stuff to get 00:09:54.196 --> 00:09:57.656 things built out really quickly and a lot of the scaffolded views are 00:09:57.656 --> 00:10:03.526 like not even used and some of the yeah, there's just like a bunch of 00:10:03.526 --> 00:10:05.156 cruft that we didn't actually need. 00:10:05.156 --> 00:10:07.636 There was some stuff in the jumpstart template that we're not using. 00:10:08.146 --> 00:10:09.006 There was. 00:10:09.426 --> 00:10:13.206 Just a lot of things that we were deleting and then tests that were just flaky. 00:10:13.206 --> 00:10:16.576 So we're fixing those and lots of little things like that. 00:10:16.596 --> 00:10:21.706 And it kind of acts as like a, a palate cleanser almost from your day to day, 00:10:21.706 --> 00:10:23.986 like feature building and just like. 00:10:24.381 --> 00:10:27.831 I don't know, kind of stressing about, okay, I gotta, you know, peel off this 00:10:27.831 --> 00:10:32.001 century issue and go solve this real quick and then get back to my grind of 00:10:32.441 --> 00:10:36.581 working on this giant form somewhere in the belly of the application. 00:10:36.581 --> 00:10:39.571 And kind of like zooming out and being like, what are all the different little 00:10:39.576 --> 00:10:43.341 quality of life improvements that we can do, whether it's like actually in 00:10:43.341 --> 00:10:49.481 the UI for the team or for customers, or if it's in the code for us. 00:10:50.061 --> 00:10:50.481 So, 00:10:51.011 --> 00:10:55.741 Colin: Yeah, I actually really think that those things are like personal to like, 00:10:55.781 --> 00:10:58.871 I don't think it would work if a PM is like, here's the things we're going to 00:10:58.871 --> 00:11:03.151 work on for polish week because, you know, those things that are hidden in drawers 00:11:03.161 --> 00:11:04.741 that need to be cleaned out, right? 00:11:04.741 --> 00:11:07.691 You've got the junk drawer, you've got the extra views and you're 00:11:07.691 --> 00:11:10.231 like, Oh, every time I run into that, I'm like, I should fix that. 00:11:10.231 --> 00:11:11.621 But I'm working on something else. 00:11:12.331 --> 00:11:15.441 And it's just going to be satisfying to like retool and it's 00:11:15.451 --> 00:11:16.601 like setting up your workshop. 00:11:16.601 --> 00:11:20.061 It's like, okay, I've cleaned all my tools, put everything away. 00:11:20.071 --> 00:11:23.461 And then next week, when we start back into future work, like I'm going to 00:11:23.961 --> 00:11:27.761 just feel a little bit lighter and a little bit more excited to get in there. 00:11:27.851 --> 00:11:31.721 You know, we go fast, you know, we go slow to go fast eventually. 00:11:31.721 --> 00:11:31.981 Right. 00:11:32.671 --> 00:11:36.958 So that's 00:11:37.006 --> 00:11:41.526 CJ: Does like a database dump and it was always so frustrating because 00:11:41.636 --> 00:11:43.086 It was really, really confusing. 00:11:43.126 --> 00:11:46.756 I kind of like just sketched out, threw it up so that people could use this, 00:11:46.786 --> 00:11:48.516 but I never went back and cleaned it up. 00:11:48.936 --> 00:11:52.326 And when it worked, it looks like a giant error. 00:11:52.546 --> 00:11:55.386 And when it didn't work, it looked like it worked. 00:11:55.926 --> 00:11:58.706 And so it was like this very, very confusing thing. 00:11:58.706 --> 00:12:02.486 And so that was like one that I had a lot of fun with going back and like colorizing 00:12:02.486 --> 00:12:04.196 the terminal output and stuff like that. 00:12:04.306 --> 00:12:08.116 You know, making some prompts in the terminal that were like, Oh, do you want 00:12:08.126 --> 00:12:10.396 to, you know, redact all the data now? 00:12:10.396 --> 00:12:11.936 Or do you want to do this step now? 00:12:11.946 --> 00:12:16.636 And then you know, using a couple of libraries or features of Ruby that I 00:12:16.646 --> 00:12:21.926 don't usually get to use around, like, you know, working in the terminal for uh, 00:12:22.256 --> 00:12:26.746 like grabbing standard in and standard out and standard error and messing 00:12:26.746 --> 00:12:28.696 around with the output from some PG. 00:12:29.391 --> 00:12:31.171 Like dump command or whatever. 00:12:31.221 --> 00:12:34.521 So that was, that was tons of fun and definitely I think will be 00:12:35.021 --> 00:12:36.241 quality of life improvement for me. 00:12:36.241 --> 00:12:38.771 Cause people won't be slacking and being like, Hey, did this thing work? 00:12:38.771 --> 00:12:39.991 I'm like, yeah, trust me. 00:12:40.011 --> 00:12:43.681 I know it looks like failure, but it worked. 00:12:43.721 --> 00:12:45.821 Just, yeah, we'll fix it later. 00:12:45.921 --> 00:12:46.431 Kind of thing. 00:12:46.441 --> 00:12:47.851 Like anytime, I guess like maybe, yeah. 00:12:47.851 --> 00:12:50.591 Anytime you say, yeah, we'll fix that later. 00:12:50.641 --> 00:12:53.701 Just, that's like something that you might want to clean up in a polish week. 00:12:53.701 --> 00:12:54.011 So, 00:12:54.951 --> 00:12:57.401 Colin: that's tricky because rake tasks don't always give you a lot 00:12:57.401 --> 00:13:03.001 of visibility or like, can you, can you do like inputs mid rake task? 00:13:03.021 --> 00:13:07.401 Like run through some stuff and then do like a, a chomp type thing. 00:13:07.696 --> 00:13:11.526 CJ: Yeah, I was, I was surprised you can do like, yeah, you can do like 00:13:11.526 --> 00:13:15.756 gets dot chomp or yeah, the chomp is like just cleaning up the new line 00:13:15.756 --> 00:13:18.916 or whatever, but you can do gets or get s or whatever, get string. 00:13:18.916 --> 00:13:21.566 And then that will like read in terminal input. 00:13:21.886 --> 00:13:22.606 I don't know. 00:13:23.356 --> 00:13:27.456 How deeply, or like how far down the rabbit hole you can go by building like a 00:13:27.456 --> 00:13:33.156 whole Thor CLI class thing that gives you options and whatever, but it was enough 00:13:33.156 --> 00:13:38.226 to just, yeah, just stop and get us and, you know, prompt for a little bit of input 00:13:38.266 --> 00:13:44.426 and then check, you know, like, did they type Y or did they type N like, you know, 00:13:44.771 --> 00:13:48.341 Colin: Well, have you seen have you seen like the, the libraries from charm, charm. 00:13:48.341 --> 00:13:49.031 sh? 00:13:49.456 --> 00:13:51.806 CJ: I've heard of this, but I haven't actually used it yet. 00:13:52.106 --> 00:13:54.446 Colin: Yeah, I mean, it's similar to like a Thor. 00:13:54.486 --> 00:13:58.886 It's just like really cool utilities for designing terminal interfaces. 00:13:59.286 --> 00:14:02.036 And so like you can have modals in your terminal interface. 00:14:02.036 --> 00:14:05.666 You can have the ability to toggle like with alt tab and 00:14:05.666 --> 00:14:07.486 stuff in between different tabs. 00:14:07.486 --> 00:14:11.176 And so it like gives you a UI and they have some one called lip gloss that 00:14:11.176 --> 00:14:13.646 helps you add a bunch of cool designs. 00:14:13.646 --> 00:14:15.126 And there's an animation library. 00:14:15.166 --> 00:14:18.136 So you can have like little dancing parrot and stuff in 00:14:18.146 --> 00:14:19.946 your all that stuff in terminal. 00:14:21.041 --> 00:14:24.801 You know, it's extra tooling, but it can, if it's, if you're reaching for these 00:14:24.821 --> 00:14:30.741 tools that have like a lot of options and you want to maybe have someone who It's 00:14:30.831 --> 00:14:34.491 not afraid to like accidentally drop a whole database or something when they're 00:14:34.491 --> 00:14:38.391 running some rake tasks like it can help to have those like back office tools. 00:14:38.621 --> 00:14:41.971 I know you guys have like administrate and a bunch of other admin things 00:14:41.971 --> 00:14:46.521 to which you could just put a button into that and say this is where 00:14:47.041 --> 00:14:48.201 this is where we're going to go do. 00:14:48.211 --> 00:14:52.611 I think most companies have that like scary admin panel that never gets 00:14:52.611 --> 00:14:56.601 enough love and it doesn't have any styling and it's probably using some 00:14:56.631 --> 00:15:01.101 auto gen thing but i'll say like we have one of those at discord even so 00:15:01.516 --> 00:15:02.056 CJ: Nice. 00:15:02.146 --> 00:15:02.626 Nice. 00:15:03.551 --> 00:15:04.431 Yeah, Stripe 2. 00:15:04.571 --> 00:15:05.451 Stripe 2. 00:15:05.491 --> 00:15:09.341 I mean, like, uh, yeah, I assume everywhere has to have that, right? 00:15:09.351 --> 00:15:15.461 Like, you, at some point, you need a way to Quickly build these interfaces 00:15:15.461 --> 00:15:17.241 that are for internal users only. 00:15:17.341 --> 00:15:19.811 And for like very specialized internal users. 00:15:19.811 --> 00:15:22.741 And it's like, okay, do we want to invest a ton of time for something 00:15:22.741 --> 00:15:25.231 that three people are going to use or one person's going to use? 00:15:25.691 --> 00:15:26.361 I don't know. 00:15:27.671 --> 00:15:34.231 So co working space, business building week. 00:15:34.551 --> 00:15:36.291 Is this a, is this next week? 00:15:36.291 --> 00:15:37.151 Is it this week? 00:15:37.151 --> 00:15:37.431 Mm 00:15:37.726 --> 00:15:40.396 Colin: So this is something I wanted to talk about on the show, just because 00:15:40.396 --> 00:15:45.006 I think if anyone's interested in, you know, indie business just thinking 00:15:45.016 --> 00:15:50.106 about when, when you're working on something and you're trying to make 00:15:50.106 --> 00:15:52.496 it work, like, when do you call it? 00:15:52.526 --> 00:15:53.576 When do you walk away? 00:15:53.576 --> 00:15:55.896 When do you, how do you figure that out? 00:15:55.926 --> 00:15:58.026 Or how do you, you know, do you stick with it? 00:15:58.066 --> 00:16:01.726 And, you know, a lot of, there's a lot of mantras out there with like, you 00:16:01.726 --> 00:16:06.376 know, Not quitting early and like if you endure and you keep pushing through 00:16:06.376 --> 00:16:10.616 like eventually it's going to work but sometimes things don't and i've kind of 00:16:10.616 --> 00:16:15.076 been circling around this it's it's It is working with the co working space. 00:16:15.126 --> 00:16:20.416 And so Instead of working on and building code things outside of my normal day job 00:16:20.446 --> 00:16:25.386 I've been more focused on this right now because it needs the attention is that 00:16:26.456 --> 00:16:30.976 Especially after COVID, we've been getting a lot of new members, but the numbers 00:16:30.976 --> 00:16:33.996 are just not doing what they need to. 00:16:34.576 --> 00:16:38.876 And so we had to like, look back and figure out like what, what happened? 00:16:39.376 --> 00:16:40.676 Is our pricing wrong? 00:16:41.566 --> 00:16:43.226 Is this something that people want? 00:16:43.396 --> 00:16:44.586 We're busier than ever. 00:16:44.586 --> 00:16:46.726 So it doesn't seem like that's the issue. 00:16:46.756 --> 00:16:48.656 And so it kind of went down this, this rabbit hole. 00:16:48.656 --> 00:16:53.186 And I'd listened to this book quit from Annie Duke in the past. 00:16:53.186 --> 00:16:55.856 And I'm re listening to it because it's very, just. 00:16:55.926 --> 00:16:59.996 Timely, I don't think that it'll hit the same if you're not going 00:16:59.996 --> 00:17:01.286 through something like this right now. 00:17:01.286 --> 00:17:04.926 Like a lot of it feels like common sense, but there's a whole thing in 00:17:04.926 --> 00:17:09.726 there about grit versus quit, where again, we, we laud and celebrate this 00:17:09.726 --> 00:17:11.076 grit that you're going to stick it out. 00:17:11.136 --> 00:17:14.696 No matter what you got the Airbnb stories of people sleeping on 00:17:14.696 --> 00:17:16.016 the floor and all this stuff. 00:17:16.016 --> 00:17:19.356 And then all of a sudden things change, but like we've been doing the collective 00:17:19.366 --> 00:17:24.156 for like 14 years and you know, there's all, there've been phases of this. 00:17:24.366 --> 00:17:26.266 It's like, Oh, we don't know if it's going to work. 00:17:26.276 --> 00:17:29.346 And then something happens and it makes it, it makes sense. 00:17:29.346 --> 00:17:32.746 And usually the something happens is that we pay more attention to it. 00:17:33.136 --> 00:17:37.436 And we put focus on it and it grows, which, you know, most businesses, 00:17:37.436 --> 00:17:40.536 you don't have the luxury to be able to like walk away from it and 00:17:40.536 --> 00:17:41.876 just keep, let it keep growing. 00:17:41.876 --> 00:17:43.156 And so that, that makes sense. 00:17:44.046 --> 00:17:47.246 And so the other thing that they talk about in the book though, and Andy 00:17:47.246 --> 00:17:48.716 Duke is a professional poker player. 00:17:48.716 --> 00:17:52.416 So quitting is very much a piece of this is that you can't go all 00:17:52.416 --> 00:17:55.386 in on every hand and be successful. 00:17:55.396 --> 00:18:00.146 You have to know how to use information to maybe, you know, lose one battle 00:18:00.176 --> 00:18:02.256 to win the whole war type of thing. 00:18:02.666 --> 00:18:04.926 And when I was doing this, I was just playing around with like, what does 00:18:04.926 --> 00:18:06.626 it look like for us to raise prices? 00:18:07.086 --> 00:18:07.756 What does it look like? 00:18:07.826 --> 00:18:10.066 Do we even have the right mix of prices? 00:18:10.076 --> 00:18:15.311 Is it, you know, we added new memberships after COVID because which I actually 00:18:15.321 --> 00:18:19.481 think is where most of our issues is coming from Is that pre covid our cheapest 00:18:19.481 --> 00:18:23.921 plan was 200 a month now our cheapest plan is 100 And so that means we need 00:18:23.921 --> 00:18:30.181 twice as many people to even hit that same number And so we're looking at that 00:18:30.221 --> 00:18:35.531 the difference is that there's a lot of people who only want to come in so many 00:18:35.531 --> 00:18:39.081 times because they have a home office, they have, like you were mentioning, 00:18:39.471 --> 00:18:42.971 the setup at home, and they, they have a pretty good schedule around that. 00:18:43.311 --> 00:18:47.171 But some people want to come out once a week, some people can't work at home 00:18:47.171 --> 00:18:51.321 and they need to come in, and so it's a pretty interesting mix of that and 00:18:51.321 --> 00:18:53.016 just kind of re looking at all that. 00:18:53.196 --> 00:18:56.216 Has been a good thing for me to do this week. 00:18:56.316 --> 00:19:01.296 We talked about the changes to chat GPT and open AI last episode, but I 00:19:01.296 --> 00:19:05.146 was running a lot of these numbers and just dropping them into chat GPT and 00:19:05.146 --> 00:19:09.906 kind of saying, like, take these and forecast them out a year, two years. 00:19:10.176 --> 00:19:15.406 What does it look like if we do this if we do like an annual upfront option and 00:19:15.726 --> 00:19:21.206 with and without a discount or raising prices for people who, who are monthly, 00:19:21.236 --> 00:19:25.406 but then locking in the price of their annual, it did a pretty good job. 00:19:25.406 --> 00:19:30.376 It sometimes it got confused as to which number was which but then I clicked on the 00:19:30.376 --> 00:19:34.606 analyzing tab and I don't know if you've seen this, but like my brain broke a 00:19:34.606 --> 00:19:39.056 little bit when I saw it because I opened it and it was like writing Python code. 00:19:40.551 --> 00:19:45.041 And just to be able to see, because like, I understand the whole like prose 00:19:45.071 --> 00:19:50.311 piece of this is that it's looking at what the most next, you know, likely 00:19:50.311 --> 00:19:52.841 word is, but it's like writing code. 00:19:53.281 --> 00:19:58.701 And so there is it, I don't understand how it could possibly do that. 00:19:59.111 --> 00:20:04.861 CJ: Yeah, yeah, there's like, I was blown away by that to the uh, by default, like 00:20:04.871 --> 00:20:07.631 an LLM is like not good at math, right? 00:20:07.631 --> 00:20:11.551 If you ask it, what is you know, if there's three people in a room and there's 00:20:11.561 --> 00:20:15.651 four pizzas and there's six slices, like how many slices can each person eat or 00:20:15.651 --> 00:20:17.421 whatever, like it can't figure that out. 00:20:18.066 --> 00:20:20.996 just based on the things you're giving it because it doesn't know 00:20:21.176 --> 00:20:24.806 those exact numbers in a text that it's read before probably like 00:20:24.981 --> 00:20:27.381 Colin: and so what's the next probable person, like, how many 00:20:27.381 --> 00:20:31.181 pieces of pizza did the person eat in a book that it read once, right? 00:20:31.726 --> 00:20:34.856 CJ: exactly and then just spits out yeah it'll just be like whatever whatever 00:20:34.856 --> 00:20:39.846 number it's seen before because that's like the token that it knows next but yeah 00:20:39.846 --> 00:20:43.276 they're like code the code execution or whatever i can't remember what's called 00:20:43.276 --> 00:20:48.466 the whatever gpt4 where it will write the code for you to answer the question 00:20:48.876 --> 00:20:55.166 that that has been kind of like mind blowing So yeah, this is a pretty sweet 00:20:55.166 --> 00:20:57.086 though that the analyze the analyze step. 00:20:57.086 --> 00:20:59.326 I think a lot of people are kind of freaked out too by 00:20:59.596 --> 00:21:01.126 what is this black box doing? 00:21:01.126 --> 00:21:06.986 And like, what are the, yeah, what are all the citations? 00:21:06.996 --> 00:21:08.956 Like, where's it getting the information? 00:21:09.046 --> 00:21:11.576 How do you make sure that you're. 00:21:12.066 --> 00:21:15.996 Attributing your sources and then how are you finding the answer to that? 00:21:15.996 --> 00:21:17.796 Like, how can we check your work sort of? 00:21:18.286 --> 00:21:20.416 And so it feels like an important step. 00:21:21.736 --> 00:21:24.676 I think right now, if I remember correctly, it only runs Python. 00:21:24.676 --> 00:21:26.216 Like it only knows how to execute Python. 00:21:26.716 --> 00:21:27.606 And. 00:21:28.106 --> 00:21:28.326 Yeah. 00:21:28.326 --> 00:21:31.136 So I wish it would, you could just tell it, like write it in Ruby 00:21:31.146 --> 00:21:34.296 and then run the Ruby, like to figure out the answer or whatever. 00:21:34.636 --> 00:21:39.866 So were the numbers based on the, the numbers that you saw and the stuff 00:21:39.866 --> 00:21:43.346 that you learned from Annie Duke's book, do you feel like you're able to 00:21:43.346 --> 00:21:46.706 sort of like draw a line in the sand and say like, okay, if we make this 00:21:46.706 --> 00:21:50.866 change, then by X day, if we don't hit. 00:21:51.461 --> 00:21:57.141 Y number, then we'll change prices again, or we'll kind of like re evaluate or yeah. 00:21:57.141 --> 00:21:59.111 So like, what's your, where are you at right now? 00:21:59.111 --> 00:22:00.049 Mm. 00:22:00.049 --> 00:22:00.987 Mm. 00:22:00.987 --> 00:22:01.925 Mm. 00:22:02.106 --> 00:22:04.366 Colin: what I, what I really enjoyed watching the Python 00:22:04.426 --> 00:22:06.826 do was seeing how it was. 00:22:07.186 --> 00:22:09.946 Like it's what I would have had to do by hand in the spreadsheet and I 00:22:09.946 --> 00:22:14.636 was going to, and I just wanted it faster and I wanted to run it a bunch 00:22:14.636 --> 00:22:16.086 of different ways really quickly. 00:22:16.616 --> 00:22:19.686 And so what was interesting is that like we, we were under this 00:22:19.686 --> 00:22:23.196 assumption that like raising prices would be like a silver bullet. 00:22:23.921 --> 00:22:27.161 And the problem with rising prices, as most people know, is that you rock 00:22:27.161 --> 00:22:28.631 the boat for all of your customers. 00:22:29.211 --> 00:22:29.521 Right. 00:22:29.541 --> 00:22:33.541 And so I was looking at it and it's like, it's not going to make 00:22:33.541 --> 00:22:38.531 a huge difference versus getting like three or four more members. 00:22:39.101 --> 00:22:43.161 So what can we do to go get four more members? 00:22:43.616 --> 00:22:46.376 Unfortunately, it's like four more members at the more expensive membership. 00:22:46.376 --> 00:22:51.006 So it'd be like, like eight of the lower price membership. 00:22:51.006 --> 00:22:54.156 And this is where it points to maybe that membership is just too low 00:22:54.326 --> 00:22:55.636 or maybe we need to get rid of it. 00:22:56.226 --> 00:23:02.396 Versus rocking the boat for all 80 members and asking like, Hey, 00:23:02.396 --> 00:23:03.346 we're going to raise prices. 00:23:03.346 --> 00:23:07.826 Cause when you raise prices, you may have turned, you may have people who are just 00:23:07.826 --> 00:23:12.126 like, yeah, the, what I was paying was the most I was willing to pay granted. 00:23:12.126 --> 00:23:14.386 We haven't raised prices in forever. 00:23:14.486 --> 00:23:16.696 And everything around us, I think everyone. 00:23:17.096 --> 00:23:18.936 can agree is more expensive. 00:23:18.946 --> 00:23:21.486 And that includes running the service. 00:23:21.546 --> 00:23:23.686 Our bills got more expensive, things like that. 00:23:24.206 --> 00:23:28.226 We're also what I feel like is the top of the market for this. 00:23:28.616 --> 00:23:33.226 In Reno, like there's one other coworking space that's not run by the university. 00:23:33.226 --> 00:23:36.768 There's one by the university, but I don't really count it cause they have 00:23:36.768 --> 00:23:38.737 different finance like situation. 00:23:38.737 --> 00:23:43.304 But the other space is only a hundred a month for what we 00:23:43.304 --> 00:23:44.834 charged two 50 a month for. 00:23:45.384 --> 00:23:51.004 And We are, we are definitely better in all different ways, right? 00:23:51.004 --> 00:23:54.334 And so that's why we can command that price and we barely 00:23:54.334 --> 00:23:55.804 make it work at that price. 00:23:55.804 --> 00:23:57.914 So I don't know how they make it work. 00:23:57.914 --> 00:24:01.704 Maybe they aren't, maybe it's credit cards, maybe it's money that they've 00:24:01.704 --> 00:24:03.244 raised, whatever that looks like. 00:24:03.244 --> 00:24:05.994 And that's been the tricky thing is a lot of times I would just go. 00:24:06.409 --> 00:24:10.349 Think like, let's go get some money to give us some cushion to figure this out. 00:24:10.739 --> 00:24:14.669 But like borrowing money from a bank is very, very hard right now. 00:24:14.779 --> 00:24:16.759 And it kind of always has been with this business. 00:24:16.759 --> 00:24:18.189 Like they don't see it. 00:24:18.659 --> 00:24:21.949 Like, I mean, even for software, you aren't able to go to a bank and 00:24:21.949 --> 00:24:26.499 get like a bunch of money to go quit your job and go work on a software 00:24:26.499 --> 00:24:27.769 product because it's high risk. 00:24:29.224 --> 00:24:31.914 They'll give you money for a mortgage because there's a house that they 00:24:31.914 --> 00:24:34.094 can take if, if you don't pay. 00:24:34.114 --> 00:24:37.864 So it's interesting that as much as banks like to be business friendly and 00:24:37.864 --> 00:24:41.914 stuff, it's like, even if we just need some money to figure out some stuff and 00:24:41.914 --> 00:24:46.544 we know that it will be good in like six months, you have to do it yourself. 00:24:46.544 --> 00:24:47.644 And so I've kind of. 00:24:47.889 --> 00:24:52.289 Unfortunately, unfortunately, Ben, that bank is that I'm kind of covering the 00:24:52.289 --> 00:24:56.279 difference for now and that's where it's calling in like you just asked 00:24:56.279 --> 00:24:58.139 like what, what is the book pointing to? 00:24:58.719 --> 00:25:02.749 And I do think coming up with a date of like, if this is still not 00:25:02.749 --> 00:25:07.869 working by 2025 or something like that, we need to reevaluate it. 00:25:08.329 --> 00:25:10.039 I don't want to make any like, like. 00:25:10.514 --> 00:25:14.274 Knee jerk decisions right now based on what I, what I've seen, but there's 00:25:14.274 --> 00:25:16.364 a lot of sunk cost fallacy involved. 00:25:16.634 --> 00:25:20.434 There's also I think in the book they talk about identity like if it's 00:25:20.434 --> 00:25:30.244 something you've always done or is part of you It's hard to quit those things I 00:25:30.319 --> 00:25:34.559 CJ: one question is like about the WeWork stuff that just happened, like, 00:25:34.579 --> 00:25:40.269 what is your take on, on their, I think they just filed bankruptcy, right? 00:25:40.279 --> 00:25:44.119 Like WeWork as a co working space, like, like they were, I think they 00:25:44.119 --> 00:25:46.809 were kind of like the most well known co working space out there. 00:25:47.349 --> 00:25:50.799 So yeah, like what's your, what's your hot take on the, the, we work situation. 00:25:51.109 --> 00:25:54.679 Colin: Yeah, I mean, I think in bigger cities, it might affect co working 00:25:54.679 --> 00:25:56.359 spaces, but for us, it doesn't. 00:25:56.739 --> 00:25:59.489 Indie co working spaces are doing better than ever. 00:25:59.579 --> 00:26:00.759 There's more of them. 00:26:00.799 --> 00:26:04.309 They're, the difference is that they're not VC backed, right? 00:26:04.309 --> 00:26:08.699 WeWork was too, too funded and it became this very strange, 00:26:10.124 --> 00:26:11.644 Like it was not real estate. 00:26:11.644 --> 00:26:17.444 It was like coworking service model, but they had over leveraged just too much 00:26:17.444 --> 00:26:23.294 funding and they were, their spaces to outfit one space is extremely expensive. 00:26:23.744 --> 00:26:26.064 And then if you've ever been in one, they've got a lot of 00:26:26.074 --> 00:26:27.944 staff and that is expensive. 00:26:27.954 --> 00:26:28.254 Right. 00:26:28.274 --> 00:26:31.864 And most coworking spaces that are indie are either. 00:26:32.189 --> 00:26:36.649 run by an owner who also does a job during the day and they sit at 00:26:36.649 --> 00:26:38.369 the front desk and they do that. 00:26:38.369 --> 00:26:40.029 And they can even only do that for so long. 00:26:40.039 --> 00:26:40.719 We've done that. 00:26:40.759 --> 00:26:43.159 I've had it be my full time job. 00:26:43.159 --> 00:26:44.669 I've had it be my part time job. 00:26:45.049 --> 00:26:48.759 Now it's kind of, I'm trying to be like the board of directors of it 00:26:48.759 --> 00:26:50.754 and not be in the business every day. 00:26:52.484 --> 00:26:55.884 But yeah, I think like some people in bigger cities like the, like the bigger 00:26:55.884 --> 00:26:59.944 competitors, like industrious and things like that, a lot of them were smaller 00:26:59.944 --> 00:27:04.994 and they're actually taking over some of WeWork's leases because they've already 00:27:04.994 --> 00:27:07.334 been built out and they're already ready. 00:27:07.334 --> 00:27:10.884 And WeWork was the one who footed the bill for most of that. 00:27:10.934 --> 00:27:14.504 And then they sell it for pennies on the dollar and, or. 00:27:14.789 --> 00:27:18.499 The lease reverts to the landlord and the landlord's like, I need someone in here. 00:27:18.499 --> 00:27:21.089 And so industrious or somebody like that takes it over. 00:27:21.089 --> 00:27:25.559 And they've grown a lot slower and more level headed so they 00:27:25.679 --> 00:27:25.839 CJ: Mm 00:27:26.059 --> 00:27:27.189 Colin: actually make money. 00:27:27.819 --> 00:27:28.249 CJ: I see. 00:27:28.689 --> 00:27:31.639 So here's another curve ball or like question for you. 00:27:31.639 --> 00:27:37.489 Like one way that I could see changing the economics would be to like 00:27:37.509 --> 00:27:42.259 offer more expensive memberships. 00:27:42.259 --> 00:27:42.329 Mm hmm. 00:27:42.919 --> 00:27:47.169 That are, that have access to exclusive perks. 00:27:47.559 --> 00:27:51.639 So one example that comes to mind is the, the like accountability 00:27:52.239 --> 00:27:53.359 sessions that you're doing right now. 00:27:53.359 --> 00:27:56.579 Like, I don't know if you charge for that or whatever, but like, I 00:27:56.579 --> 00:28:02.079 could imagine that being extremely valuable to people who want to be 00:28:02.079 --> 00:28:03.629 held accountable and want to show up. 00:28:04.109 --> 00:28:07.819 And so like maybe there is a 300. 00:28:07.979 --> 00:28:10.609 400, 500 a month thing. 00:28:10.889 --> 00:28:14.669 And that like unlocks these sort of like premium features 00:28:14.669 --> 00:28:18.159 or these premium benefits, maybe it's five, six, 700 a month. 00:28:18.199 --> 00:28:19.469 And it also includes like. 00:28:20.149 --> 00:28:25.049 You know, business coaching and I, so like thinking back to my time 00:28:25.239 --> 00:28:29.229 at the collective, a lot of what attracted me to it was that I know, 00:28:29.309 --> 00:28:32.749 I knew there was a lot of developers that worked out of the collective. 00:28:32.749 --> 00:28:37.109 And so I wanted to help build my network in Reno of other developers. 00:28:37.129 --> 00:28:43.019 And so I yeah, so kind of curious about the composition of the. 00:28:43.754 --> 00:28:48.464 The members, if you're down to share that, like, I assume most are kind of 00:28:48.464 --> 00:28:54.184 like freelancers, entrepreneurs, indie hackers, or like remote employees. 00:28:54.254 --> 00:28:57.604 And then like, is there something you can lean into? 00:28:57.604 --> 00:29:01.554 That's like, okay, we are the coworking space for developers in Reno. 00:29:01.584 --> 00:29:07.484 And like, you can come and we're, we're going to have like, Weekly developer 00:29:07.484 --> 00:29:12.144 meetups, and we're going to have these accountability sessions and we're going 00:29:12.144 --> 00:29:15.524 to have X, Y, and Z that is going to increase your overhead because like 00:29:15.524 --> 00:29:17.074 someone has to run those, right. 00:29:17.194 --> 00:29:21.904 But also like, it could be kind of like pushing into like this premium 00:29:21.904 --> 00:29:25.724 level where maybe it doesn't matter if the, if you lose or you churn out 00:29:26.114 --> 00:29:29.434 a few members who are paying a hundred bucks a month, because you can get some 00:29:29.434 --> 00:29:33.854 of these more sort of like hardcore, serious, engaged members that are. 00:29:34.039 --> 00:29:35.299 At like a higher price point. 00:29:35.969 --> 00:29:36.269 I don't know. 00:29:36.569 --> 00:29:37.679 Curious, your your thoughts. 00:29:38.314 --> 00:29:38.694 Colin: Yeah. 00:29:38.734 --> 00:29:39.474 I like that. 00:29:39.524 --> 00:29:43.964 I think if I was 10 years younger, I would be all over it. 00:29:43.984 --> 00:29:44.274 Right. 00:29:44.324 --> 00:29:47.294 It's we, we kind of started that way. 00:29:47.414 --> 00:29:49.554 And we were a little bit closer to that. 00:29:50.024 --> 00:29:53.394 We don't charge for the cultivation accountability group and stuff like that. 00:29:53.394 --> 00:29:58.084 It's a, you just have to be a member to do it, which helps when we do tours 00:29:58.094 --> 00:30:03.314 and stuff, but it's tricky because when you offer more at a higher price point, 00:30:03.344 --> 00:30:06.779 I do think you, expect more right? 00:30:06.779 --> 00:30:12.109 And then if it's not working out, then you turn and so it's tricky because it's 00:30:12.119 --> 00:30:15.349 not that I, I mean, I already spend a lot of time on the business, so it's 00:30:15.349 --> 00:30:19.909 not that I don't want to spend more or rather I cannot spend more, right? 00:30:19.909 --> 00:30:23.709 From a sustainability and not burning out perspective, like this is my 00:30:23.709 --> 00:30:28.919 second job and I need to have like one and a half jobs, not, not to so. 00:30:29.769 --> 00:30:31.149 That's a little bit of it. 00:30:31.749 --> 00:30:35.289 I like the idea though, like the accountability thing could be an add on. 00:30:35.859 --> 00:30:39.029 I think we've moved away from being such so focused on 00:30:39.039 --> 00:30:40.279 software, which is interesting. 00:30:40.279 --> 00:30:41.189 Like it's just not. 00:30:42.034 --> 00:30:46.364 A lot of the engineers, we get some of them but some of the folks that 00:30:46.374 --> 00:30:50.324 we've been getting, we have two members who are awesome that work for Penske, 00:30:50.374 --> 00:30:52.174 which is the truck trucking company. 00:30:52.664 --> 00:30:56.994 And they started out in trucking and now they're like heads of data science 00:30:57.014 --> 00:31:01.914 and analytics, like which Penske is very focused on personal development 00:31:01.924 --> 00:31:04.024 and growth and moving between teams. 00:31:04.414 --> 00:31:07.664 And they've been there for years and years and they've, they took those 00:31:07.914 --> 00:31:09.114 stepping stones and now they're like. 00:31:09.759 --> 00:31:10.749 We are here once a week. 00:31:10.749 --> 00:31:14.149 Now we want to be here every day, you know, and things like that. 00:31:14.149 --> 00:31:16.579 So like, that's the kind of thing that I really like and they're 00:31:16.579 --> 00:31:20.589 developers now, but they weren't when they started which was interesting. 00:31:20.879 --> 00:31:24.399 We've also, I think the, the time that we made the most amount of money was when we 00:31:24.399 --> 00:31:28.909 ran a developer bootcamp, but that comes with all sorts of issues, as you know. 00:31:29.599 --> 00:31:29.869 CJ: Yeah. 00:31:29.929 --> 00:31:30.739 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 00:31:31.849 --> 00:31:32.119 Yeah. 00:31:32.119 --> 00:31:32.929 It's tough man. 00:31:32.934 --> 00:31:33.379 It is. 00:31:33.489 --> 00:31:34.019 Colin: business 00:31:34.144 --> 00:31:35.214 CJ: Yeah, right. 00:31:35.214 --> 00:31:35.454 Yeah. 00:31:35.454 --> 00:31:39.814 So like going back to the, going back to like the quit thing, I 00:31:39.854 --> 00:31:43.484 have been, it's been on my reading list for a super long time. 00:31:43.484 --> 00:31:46.994 I think maybe you told me about it like years ago or something, but 00:31:47.464 --> 00:31:49.084 I have been nervous to read it. 00:31:49.094 --> 00:31:55.634 Cause I feel like sometimes I feel like quitting is. 00:31:56.049 --> 00:31:59.479 Like me failing or like admitting to failing in some way. 00:31:59.659 --> 00:32:03.499 And so I am nervous that I'm gonna read it and it's gonna convince 00:32:03.504 --> 00:32:04.609 me to quit a whole bunch of stuff. 00:32:05.269 --> 00:32:06.499 . So I don't know. 00:32:06.504 --> 00:32:09.529 What, what was your biggest takeaways, like from, from the book? 00:32:09.544 --> 00:32:09.964 Mm-Hmm? 00:32:09.974 --> 00:32:14.934 Colin: if you mix this with essentialism or atomic habits and James Clear, 00:32:14.934 --> 00:32:18.724 like if you think about the things that you want to do, like when I 00:32:18.744 --> 00:32:22.824 think to, like, how do I create space to work on this calendar app, or I 00:32:22.834 --> 00:32:24.314 have some ideas for a GitHub app. 00:32:24.314 --> 00:32:26.714 It's like, and then I'm like, where am I going to find space 00:32:26.744 --> 00:32:28.404 and time in my day to do that? 00:32:28.784 --> 00:32:29.054 Right. 00:32:29.054 --> 00:32:31.884 It's quitting things so that you can get to the things that you really 00:32:31.884 --> 00:32:36.744 want, or in essentialism, it's, you know, people doing so much that they. 00:32:36.979 --> 00:32:41.039 are run ragged and then they're not even present and at home 00:32:41.039 --> 00:32:42.169 when they're at home, right? 00:32:42.169 --> 00:32:45.369 Their, their relationships, their friendships, things like that start to 00:32:45.369 --> 00:32:47.929 dwindle and it's just not sustainable. 00:32:47.929 --> 00:32:49.559 That's like the equivalent of burnout. 00:32:49.609 --> 00:32:54.189 And so we, I think we start spinning a bunch of plates and we're afraid to fail. 00:32:54.189 --> 00:32:57.669 So we just never stopped spinning some of them that don't serve us anymore. 00:32:57.679 --> 00:33:01.879 And that that's more what the book is about is that we want to identify things 00:33:01.879 --> 00:33:04.339 that aren't serving us and we can. 00:33:04.729 --> 00:33:08.719 quit those in a way that doesn't feel like quitting or failing rather. 00:33:08.729 --> 00:33:10.709 And that it's not a bad thing, right? 00:33:10.709 --> 00:33:14.149 That like, if you go all in on this hand that you know is going 00:33:14.149 --> 00:33:17.809 to just take you to the cleaners, you don't get to stay in the game. 00:33:18.319 --> 00:33:19.579 You are done, right? 00:33:19.579 --> 00:33:23.719 And so quitting this hand means you get to keep doing something that you want 00:33:23.719 --> 00:33:25.639 to do longer term, and that's great. 00:33:26.489 --> 00:33:29.609 But some of the things you're like, yeah, I've been doing this forever because 00:33:29.609 --> 00:33:32.399 we started doing it and we've always done it, but we don't really know why 00:33:32.399 --> 00:33:36.149 we do it anymore doesn't really, you know, we don't know, in our case, it's 00:33:36.149 --> 00:33:37.589 like, do the members still want that? 00:33:37.889 --> 00:33:39.479 Do I still want to show up for it? 00:33:39.919 --> 00:33:41.529 And I think that's natural. 00:33:41.539 --> 00:33:44.419 The longer you do things like I'm kind of, maybe this is a phase 00:33:44.419 --> 00:33:47.139 that I'm going through, but like, I'm also evaluating the developer 00:33:47.139 --> 00:33:51.869 meetup like this because it doesn't serve me the same way that it would. 00:33:52.184 --> 00:33:53.354 me 10 years ago. 00:33:53.354 --> 00:33:58.084 And I wonder if there's a new person who is, who was me, right? 00:33:58.464 --> 00:34:02.304 That, that, who's the new Colin that can run that, who was 00:34:02.304 --> 00:34:03.314 going to get a lot out of it. 00:34:03.344 --> 00:34:06.064 We both got a lot out of those events. 00:34:06.084 --> 00:34:06.484 Right. 00:34:06.834 --> 00:34:08.234 And it's just sometimes. 00:34:08.634 --> 00:34:10.484 the night just doesn't make sense for me. 00:34:10.484 --> 00:34:13.514 And, you know, the, or the, or it's just sometimes really 00:34:13.514 --> 00:34:14.914 hard to get people to speak. 00:34:15.244 --> 00:34:17.814 People really like that it exists, but no one wants to 00:34:17.824 --> 00:34:19.124 give a talk, things like that. 00:34:19.124 --> 00:34:24.114 And so in coworking that, that comes up a lot where people try to event coordinate. 00:34:24.184 --> 00:34:28.944 the whole month and then no one comes to all the events cause there's either too 00:34:28.944 --> 00:34:33.234 many or it's just like, yeah, we like that you do them, but we're really busy. 00:34:33.244 --> 00:34:36.794 And I would say again, after the pandemic, a lot of people are a little bit more 00:34:36.804 --> 00:34:38.584 choosy with where they spend their time. 00:34:39.044 --> 00:34:39.794 Cause they have to be. 00:34:40.734 --> 00:34:41.094 CJ: Mm-Hmm. 00:34:41.584 --> 00:34:41.934 . Great. 00:34:42.519 --> 00:34:44.239 Colin: Yeah, I would not be afraid of reading it. 00:34:44.239 --> 00:34:46.749 I think it'll help set a few things free. 00:34:47.259 --> 00:34:51.159 There's the thing, this is kind of like Burning Man type of thing, but like 00:34:51.159 --> 00:34:54.329 there's this quote from Burning Man where it's like, don't divorce your parakeet. 00:34:54.859 --> 00:34:57.789 Which is that like a lot of people go to Burning Man or maybe you go to some. 00:34:58.204 --> 00:35:02.064 camping trip or some life changing like you go to Europe or New York or whatever. 00:35:02.464 --> 00:35:03.714 And you're like, I'm going to move here. 00:35:03.714 --> 00:35:04.674 I'm going to change everything. 00:35:04.674 --> 00:35:04.794 Right? 00:35:04.804 --> 00:35:08.254 Like you need to give yourself time. 00:35:08.254 --> 00:35:12.034 So like read it, give yourself some time to process it. 00:35:12.044 --> 00:35:15.224 And then like write down what comes from it for you. 00:35:15.644 --> 00:35:18.014 And then revisit it and see if it's still something that's true. 00:35:18.024 --> 00:35:21.374 Like you know, people go to Burning Man and then they try to like upend 00:35:21.384 --> 00:35:22.574 their life and quit their job. 00:35:22.574 --> 00:35:25.189 And, you know, leave their partners and all this stuff. 00:35:25.189 --> 00:35:30.919 And it's like, I think you miss, miss some of the points here of of what's going 00:35:30.919 --> 00:35:36.549 on, but yeah, it can, it can give you a good lens for at least reevaluating why 00:35:36.549 --> 00:35:37.799 you do some of the things that you do. 00:35:38.399 --> 00:35:38.899 CJ: Love it. 00:35:39.189 --> 00:35:39.499 Yeah. 00:35:39.609 --> 00:35:39.959 Okay. 00:35:42.349 --> 00:35:44.159 Should we, you want to talk about YouTube stuff? 00:35:44.564 --> 00:35:45.624 Colin: Yeah, let's do it. 00:35:45.654 --> 00:35:50.184 So I guess this is in the favor of stopping some things so that I can start 00:35:50.184 --> 00:35:55.494 doing other things is Be curious what kind of tips you have for like getting 00:35:55.504 --> 00:36:00.804 started with YouTube because I've been kind of toying around the idea Do I do 00:36:00.804 --> 00:36:02.634 I want to start just twitch streaming? 00:36:03.009 --> 00:36:06.799 And then maybe push those to YouTube or keep them separate, whatever. 00:36:07.879 --> 00:36:11.369 Some live streaming feels daunting for other reasons. 00:36:11.429 --> 00:36:14.739 But it's also sometimes easier just to hit play and go or hit 00:36:14.739 --> 00:36:18.029 record and go and, and not worry about editing and all that stuff. 00:36:18.029 --> 00:36:20.659 But then I need to like, feel like I have to do a bunch of prep work 00:36:21.389 --> 00:36:22.959 know what I'm going to do on stream. 00:36:23.459 --> 00:36:28.429 So curious what, what tips you have there is, you know, is this a, just do 00:36:28.429 --> 00:36:32.759 it and be embarrassed first couple of times or, or, or how you go about it. 00:36:33.709 --> 00:36:34.059 CJ: Yeah. 00:36:34.059 --> 00:36:37.369 I think it is to get started. 00:36:37.679 --> 00:36:42.099 I think it is one of those things where it is very much just 00:36:42.109 --> 00:36:43.809 flip on the camera and do it. 00:36:44.479 --> 00:36:50.079 And the first, I, I think the wisdom is like do a hundred videos. 00:36:50.099 --> 00:36:54.199 And then once you've done a hundred, you can start worrying about like making 00:36:54.519 --> 00:36:56.499 improvements or whatever, but even in. 00:36:57.364 --> 00:37:00.234 Like after you do one video, you'll be like, Oh, I need, I definitely 00:37:00.234 --> 00:37:02.984 need to change X, Y, and Z after you do two videos, I definitely 00:37:02.984 --> 00:37:03.944 need to change X, Y, and Z. 00:37:04.434 --> 00:37:09.124 So it's, it's all about putting in the reps in terms of, would you, 00:37:09.134 --> 00:37:13.184 do you want to stream to Twitch and then push to YouTube or vice versa? 00:37:13.744 --> 00:37:18.574 I think it kind of depends on what you're comfortable with and Twitch tends to. 00:37:19.014 --> 00:37:23.084 attract a different style of, or like a, not a different, but a 00:37:23.084 --> 00:37:26.974 very specific style of live stream that is totally valid on YouTube. 00:37:27.794 --> 00:37:34.264 I think you can stream to both Twitch and YouTube from many of the 00:37:34.264 --> 00:37:36.034 streaming platforms at the same time. 00:37:36.684 --> 00:37:42.299 And if you want to kind of like I don't know. 00:37:42.509 --> 00:37:46.239 I, I think I wouldn't worry too much about getting everything set up to 00:37:46.249 --> 00:37:48.029 stream to like all the different places. 00:37:48.809 --> 00:37:52.729 In the beginning, I think it's fine if you want to start small and 00:37:52.729 --> 00:37:57.969 teach something that feels so, so, so beginner and so small that it's 00:37:57.969 --> 00:38:01.469 like, this is like ridiculous that I'm talking about this right now. 00:38:01.969 --> 00:38:05.919 because I think you'd be surprised at how many people will find value 00:38:05.919 --> 00:38:11.499 from that and it also like you will get a ton of value just from trying 00:38:11.559 --> 00:38:14.419 some super, super small little thing. 00:38:15.659 --> 00:38:18.639 So yeah, I would say like the first and biggest piece of advice, just like 00:38:18.639 --> 00:38:24.339 flip on the camera and go in terms of screencasting and teaching code, I 00:38:24.339 --> 00:38:26.559 don't know, I'm assuming that's like what you want to do, but maybe you 00:38:26.559 --> 00:38:27.889 want to do gaming or something else. 00:38:27.889 --> 00:38:28.099 But 00:38:28.994 --> 00:38:29.274 Colin: Yeah. 00:38:29.274 --> 00:38:35.954 I think mostly code, but more like building apps together type of thing. 00:38:35.954 --> 00:38:38.924 So like instead of play together, it'd be built together or something similar. 00:38:39.394 --> 00:38:41.894 I think that doing kind of like the mob pairing that you were talking about, 00:38:41.904 --> 00:38:45.574 because I don't get to do a lot of that in my day job, doing that with 00:38:45.584 --> 00:38:49.704 other programming creators and stuff like I, like my friend, Aaron, like 00:38:49.704 --> 00:38:54.294 you, whoever else would be like, just get on and build a fun thing together. 00:38:54.394 --> 00:38:57.694 It's like a live stream tuple or something, could be fun. 00:38:59.189 --> 00:38:59.479 CJ: Okay. 00:38:59.479 --> 00:39:02.029 So that, yeah, totally. 00:39:02.334 --> 00:39:06.554 Awesome type of content that people get really engaged with and they'll 00:39:06.564 --> 00:39:09.504 follow along like the entire journey because they want to watch, 00:39:09.504 --> 00:39:13.414 like, how do you make decisions about all these different things? 00:39:13.854 --> 00:39:19.554 In that specific case, I would probably try to like record everything, 00:39:19.854 --> 00:39:23.694 like record your whole process from start to finish and include that. 00:39:23.704 --> 00:39:27.454 Even if it feels like, gosh, I'm spending a ton of time debugging this 00:39:27.454 --> 00:39:28.864 one stupid little thing or whatever. 00:39:28.864 --> 00:39:31.344 Like what I. 00:39:31.864 --> 00:39:37.104 Have done several series is I'll build something like I'll build 00:39:37.104 --> 00:39:38.474 a project from start to finish. 00:39:38.734 --> 00:39:43.629 And if I find myself in the middle, like Losing 45 minutes down a rabbit hole 00:39:43.639 --> 00:39:47.339 trying to debug something, then I'll still shoot that and I'll still keep the 00:39:47.339 --> 00:39:49.789 video in there, but I'll like speed it up. 00:39:49.789 --> 00:39:52.079 So that's like 700 times speed, you know? 00:39:52.289 --> 00:39:52.549 So it's like, 00:39:53.539 --> 00:39:53.899 Colin: Yeah, 00:39:54.129 --> 00:39:55.259 CJ: you know, just kind of like moving through it. 00:39:55.259 --> 00:39:59.359 And people do this like really fancy, but it doesn't have to be anything fancy. 00:39:59.359 --> 00:40:02.869 Like you can literally just like record yourself, record yourself talking. 00:40:04.079 --> 00:40:06.999 Colin: yOu throw the Spongebob like five days later. 00:40:07.299 --> 00:40:08.329 CJ: Yes, exactly. 00:40:08.329 --> 00:40:08.619 Yeah. 00:40:08.619 --> 00:40:08.789 Yeah. 00:40:08.789 --> 00:40:09.009 Yeah. 00:40:09.069 --> 00:40:11.909 Like you can get super, super fancy with editing too. 00:40:11.919 --> 00:40:17.269 Like I, my style right now of editing is like, I want to spend 00:40:17.269 --> 00:40:19.139 as little time as possible editing. 00:40:19.149 --> 00:40:21.169 That's like not the fun part for me anymore. 00:40:21.649 --> 00:40:23.099 And so I 00:40:23.329 --> 00:40:24.179 Colin: tape basically. 00:40:24.414 --> 00:40:25.314 CJ: Yeah, exactly. 00:40:25.344 --> 00:40:29.924 And then I will, I'll cut it up a little bit in ScreenFlow, blur out 00:40:29.944 --> 00:40:35.104 API keys, and then pull it into Descript, remove filler words. 00:40:35.144 --> 00:40:38.064 And then like I move my camera input around a little bit 00:40:38.074 --> 00:40:39.314 to like show and hide it. 00:40:39.704 --> 00:40:43.294 But other than that, I'll just like basically ship what I recorded. 00:40:44.454 --> 00:40:48.054 And yeah, like it doesn't, it doesn't have to be super heavy handed. 00:40:48.064 --> 00:40:49.554 It's not going to be great in the beginning. 00:40:49.554 --> 00:40:52.274 But the more reps you put in, the more comfortable you'll get. 00:40:52.734 --> 00:40:53.668 And yeah. 00:40:54.299 --> 00:40:58.239 If you sort of consider, like, think of it as like a zoom call where you're doing one 00:40:58.239 --> 00:41:00.009 of those lunch and learns at work, right. 00:41:00.009 --> 00:41:05.339 Where it's just like, Oh, Hey these are a couple of my peers who I expect to 00:41:05.339 --> 00:41:08.499 have some experience with writing code. 00:41:08.879 --> 00:41:11.419 And I'm just going to walk them through something that I learned or 00:41:11.419 --> 00:41:14.279 something that I think is interesting or something that I think is cool. 00:41:14.829 --> 00:41:16.769 And, hopefully they learn something. 00:41:16.769 --> 00:41:21.669 If not, whatever, like this is like just for me and for the fun of the process. 00:41:22.454 --> 00:41:22.764 Colin: Yeah, 00:41:22.849 --> 00:41:28.359 CJ: couple of resources that were Valuable for getting like the stripe 00:41:28.369 --> 00:41:33.559 quality content up to snuff was this how to egghead how to egghead. 00:41:33.559 --> 00:41:38.889 com slash instructor I can't the yeah the founder and the company egghead that 00:41:38.889 --> 00:41:43.944 puts out a bunch of developer courses They have a entire like Documentation 00:41:44.064 --> 00:41:48.834 and series for how they do it and they have some really good settings in there 00:41:48.834 --> 00:41:54.104 for like how You know, what frame rate your camera should be at and how big your 00:41:54.434 --> 00:41:57.804 screen font should be and things like that, that you don't have to, then you 00:41:57.804 --> 00:42:01.484 don't have to like think about is this font big enough and record and stop and 00:42:01.484 --> 00:42:02.684 like, I don't know, how does it look and 00:42:02.974 --> 00:42:03.284 Colin: yeah 00:42:04.474 --> 00:42:04.804 nice. 00:42:05.144 --> 00:42:08.664 CJ: and then, yeah, like Aaron Francis shipped screencasting. 00:42:08.664 --> 00:42:09.084 com. 00:42:09.514 --> 00:42:12.804 I haven't watched any of them yet, but it looks really good. 00:42:12.804 --> 00:42:15.004 So I'm excited to go through that eventually. 00:42:15.534 --> 00:42:16.494 Those are kind of like. 00:42:16.709 --> 00:42:22.009 I would say like developer content and screencasting specific, and then 00:42:22.009 --> 00:42:23.969 just like general YouTube tools. 00:42:24.169 --> 00:42:25.849 I use a tool called TubeBuddy. 00:42:26.234 --> 00:42:28.804 I use it a little bit less now, but that's like a Chrome 00:42:28.804 --> 00:42:31.194 extension that you can install. 00:42:31.244 --> 00:42:35.164 And they have like different tiers with different features, but with the base 00:42:35.214 --> 00:42:39.364 one installed as you're browsing YouTube, it'll show you all kinds of cool stats. 00:42:39.364 --> 00:42:42.804 And like they have a bunch of like SEO tools and tools for a 00:42:42.804 --> 00:42:45.894 B testing your thumbnails and a B testing your descriptions and 00:42:46.444 --> 00:42:47.924 like really, really fancy stuff. 00:42:48.404 --> 00:42:49.364 So that's a good one. 00:42:50.014 --> 00:42:56.619 And then think media, Sean, And, or Cornell and Ali Abdul, these are two 00:42:56.619 --> 00:43:01.299 just like super famous YouTubers that also make content about making content. 00:43:01.329 --> 00:43:04.619 And so Sean in particular has like a bunch of camera videos. 00:43:04.619 --> 00:43:04.889 And 00:43:05.689 --> 00:43:09.459 Colin: Yeah, I follow Ollie's YouTube and really, really like it. 00:43:09.619 --> 00:43:09.929 Yeah. 00:43:09.988 --> 00:43:10.908 CJ: nice, nice. 00:43:11.298 --> 00:43:11.538 Yeah. 00:43:11.538 --> 00:43:14.078 So the, I went through his Skillshare course. 00:43:16.698 --> 00:43:18.298 He edits with Final Cut Pro. 00:43:18.328 --> 00:43:19.808 I use ScreenFlow. 00:43:19.908 --> 00:43:23.278 So like none of the actual detail, like technical details made sense, 00:43:23.278 --> 00:43:27.778 but like his approach to like, Oh, I'm going to splice it here and splice it 00:43:27.778 --> 00:43:30.258 here because it seems more natural. 00:43:30.418 --> 00:43:31.038 Yeah. 00:43:31.048 --> 00:43:35.278 The storytelling, but also like just like actual cuts, like J cuts and L 00:43:35.288 --> 00:43:39.798 cuts and like different crossfades and like really, really basic video 00:43:39.808 --> 00:43:41.448 editing stuff picked up from there. 00:43:41.938 --> 00:43:44.968 But yeah, again, like, I don't think you have to look at 00:43:45.008 --> 00:43:46.838 any of this to get started. 00:43:47.008 --> 00:43:51.148 Like, in fact, I would recommend like not just like, yeah, flip on the camera. 00:43:51.528 --> 00:43:55.748 You've got like your, your setup right now as you have it. 00:43:56.143 --> 00:43:57.023 Looks amazing. 00:43:57.033 --> 00:44:00.953 Like this is what you have now is easily 10 times better than what I 00:44:00.953 --> 00:44:06.123 started with and, uh, people, it's like thousands of views on those old videos. 00:44:06.123 --> 00:44:07.863 So like, uh, I 00:44:07.959 --> 00:44:10.229 Colin: Well, and if you drop this into a thumbnail, like you're 00:44:10.229 --> 00:44:11.529 not even really going to see it. 00:44:11.539 --> 00:44:14.029 Like the audio being good is important. 00:44:14.469 --> 00:44:16.529 And then from there, it's the screen. 00:44:16.539 --> 00:44:21.029 So I remember because I did some videos for our boot camp. 00:44:21.614 --> 00:44:26.914 That then somehow got picked up as like videos for some other bootcamp and the 00:44:26.944 --> 00:44:31.204 accidental hack that I did was it was like a building Pinterest in like six 00:44:31.204 --> 00:44:35.564 videos and I think it was only five of the six videos ever got released 00:44:36.074 --> 00:44:39.894 and so like all of the videos had comments about where's the sixth video. 00:44:40.593 --> 00:44:42.983 CJ: yeah, yeah, yeah, 00:44:43.199 --> 00:44:47.559 Colin: And I was like, oops, I don't know how I actually think that all of the 00:44:47.559 --> 00:44:51.359 content was in the five videos, but they were like mislabeled as six or something. 00:44:51.359 --> 00:44:55.629 And, and just like, it was getting so much engagement, but it was like either 00:44:55.639 --> 00:45:00.199 a, that it was like, now it's been so many, it's been like since 2015 or 16. 00:45:00.629 --> 00:45:04.119 So all the people that comment on it now are like, this code doesn't work. 00:45:04.119 --> 00:45:07.069 This gem is like malware now. 00:45:09.634 --> 00:45:12.344 Because I think we were using we were using like an image upload or 00:45:12.364 --> 00:45:15.394 whatever the popular one paperclip or whatever it was at the time. 00:45:15.394 --> 00:45:18.834 And there was some sort of malware going around and it's like, well, 00:45:19.194 --> 00:45:22.334 that's, that's why you that's why you use Twitter and Google and 00:45:22.864 --> 00:45:25.554 read, read up on the GitHub issues. 00:45:26.153 --> 00:45:26.673 CJ: Mm hmm. 00:45:26.743 --> 00:45:27.253 Mm hmm. 00:45:27.523 --> 00:45:27.983 Totally. 00:45:28.484 --> 00:45:29.404 Colin: Oh, that's super helpful. 00:45:29.404 --> 00:45:32.614 And I think I'll have a little bit of free time over the holidays. 00:45:32.614 --> 00:45:34.394 And I think I just need to need to do it. 00:45:35.323 --> 00:45:35.653 CJ: Cool. 00:45:35.853 --> 00:45:36.303 Yeah. 00:45:36.373 --> 00:45:40.293 I think, yeah, maybe listeners can expect to see a link in the 00:45:40.313 --> 00:45:42.563 show notes in a future episode. 00:45:42.573 --> 00:45:43.733 Well, yeah, we'll drop it. 00:45:43.763 --> 00:45:44.423 We'll drop it. 00:45:45.059 --> 00:45:50.249 Colin: I think one last thing on that would be how do you feel about your name 00:45:50.249 --> 00:45:55.869 versus like a channel name as where you're going to build your little YouTube empire? 00:45:56.283 --> 00:46:00.663 CJ: Had I done it, uh, in retrospect, I would have used the channel name. 00:46:00.813 --> 00:46:06.243 I used my own like personal Gmail account and it's like, that's my YouTube channel 00:46:06.243 --> 00:46:09.653 is my actual Gmail accounts, YouTube 00:46:09.689 --> 00:46:10.959 Colin: it's like CJ Avila or 00:46:11.113 --> 00:46:12.153 CJ: Yeah, exactly. 00:46:12.153 --> 00:46:15.663 It's yeah, it's CJ Villa and like, I just renamed, you can rename the 00:46:15.663 --> 00:46:20.123 channel, handle whatever you want, but it's yeah, if I were doing this 00:46:20.123 --> 00:46:21.583 again, I would have come up with some. 00:46:21.649 --> 00:46:27.588 Like outlaw videos or, you know, whatever racing video, 00:46:28.189 --> 00:46:30.499 Colin: is all under his name on his YouTube as well. 00:46:30.509 --> 00:46:30.699 So I 00:46:30.858 --> 00:46:31.138 CJ: it. 00:46:31.739 --> 00:46:32.949 Colin: I think Ali is. 00:46:32.949 --> 00:46:38.099 And then, you know, I think you've got the big ones iJustine and stuff 00:46:38.099 --> 00:46:41.089 like that, that's kind of like a channel name and their name, but 00:46:41.398 --> 00:46:41.748 CJ: Yeah. 00:46:42.288 --> 00:46:47.178 Like Traversee media, Traversee is his name, but his, like he 00:46:47.178 --> 00:46:48.848 now has like this media empire. 00:46:49.168 --> 00:46:50.658 Chris's go rails. 00:46:50.658 --> 00:46:52.188 Like that's perfect. 00:46:52.388 --> 00:46:52.848 Right. 00:46:53.098 --> 00:46:56.948 Go rails as a company could be sold to someone else and someone else 00:46:56.948 --> 00:47:00.378 could make content and it could all be about Ruby on rails and Chris 00:47:00.378 --> 00:47:01.768 could be like, no longer involved. 00:47:02.338 --> 00:47:06.618 But there's no way that like the CJ Avila channel could be sold to anybody 00:47:06.808 --> 00:47:09.608 and like just picked up by some other person to keep making content. 00:47:10.138 --> 00:47:12.838 That's like the only, I guess that's the only thing that I would consider, 00:47:13.128 --> 00:47:18.518 but yeah, maybe that it depends on what outcome you're looking for because as a 00:47:18.528 --> 00:47:20.848 personal brand, it does help me directly 00:47:21.759 --> 00:47:23.549 Colin: That's what I'm focused on more. 00:47:23.549 --> 00:47:27.959 I have no, no intentions of building a thing to sell it more, just building 00:47:27.969 --> 00:47:29.819 a personal brand and audience. 00:47:30.218 --> 00:47:30.598 CJ: Got it. 00:47:30.628 --> 00:47:30.878 Yeah. 00:47:30.878 --> 00:47:34.468 So in that case, it is like a pretty legit resume point. 00:47:34.478 --> 00:47:35.728 Like, or, you know what I mean? 00:47:35.728 --> 00:47:42.188 Like kind of, it's, it's sort of like if, and when I need another job or gig 00:47:42.188 --> 00:47:45.178 or something, you know, I can be like, Hey, check out my YouTube channel. 00:47:45.278 --> 00:47:46.728 And that's like all me. 00:47:46.798 --> 00:47:49.008 Whereas that might be a little awkward if it was like, check out my YouTube 00:47:49.008 --> 00:47:52.338 channel, it's like outlaw devs or something, you know, like which. 00:47:52.349 --> 00:47:53.229 Colin: Quit your job. 00:47:53.588 --> 00:47:54.258 CJ: Yeah. 00:47:54.308 --> 00:47:54.598 Yeah. 00:47:54.598 --> 00:47:54.908 I don't know. 00:47:54.908 --> 00:47:56.568 It might be some something. 00:47:57.418 --> 00:47:57.698 Yeah. 00:47:57.978 --> 00:48:00.778 That's, I guess that's the trade off is like, do you want this 00:48:00.778 --> 00:48:04.278 to be an independent thing that you're creating and investing into? 00:48:04.288 --> 00:48:06.618 Or do you want it to be your personal brand? 00:48:06.648 --> 00:48:07.528 I guess it's kind of like, 00:48:08.479 --> 00:48:08.779 Colin: Cool. 00:48:08.909 --> 00:48:10.489 I'll play around with that a little bit. 00:48:10.829 --> 00:48:11.639 Super helpful 00:48:12.373 --> 00:48:12.743 CJ: Yeah. 00:48:12.793 --> 00:48:13.183 Awesome. 00:48:13.339 --> 00:48:17.869 Colin: This is like a little bit of a meta business episode, but we can't 00:48:17.879 --> 00:48:19.359 talk about code all the time, I guess. 00:48:19.563 --> 00:48:19.863 CJ: True. 00:48:21.723 --> 00:48:22.103 Yeah. 00:48:22.373 --> 00:48:22.753 Right on. 00:48:22.753 --> 00:48:25.703 Well, yeah, as always, you can head over to buildandlearn. 00:48:25.703 --> 00:48:30.543 dev to check out the resources and links and things that we talked about. 00:48:31.153 --> 00:48:33.313 And that's it for now. 00:48:33.989 --> 00:48:34.709 Colin: I'll see you next time. 00:48:35.633 --> 00:48:35.863 CJ: All right. 00:48:35.873 --> 00:48:36.393 Bye friends.