Show Notes
We talk to Wicked's own Elphaba, Jackie Burns!
FULL TRANSCRIPT (unedited):
0 (2s):
Hello? Hello. Hello survivors. How I've missed you. I've missed talking to you boss. And I took quite a number of weeks off. Well, I did. She, she actually continued to record for at least one week while I was gone. And she's got a great interview. We've got a great interview coming up. She talked to Jackie burns, little Jackie burns on Broadway, wicked playing Elphaba. No big deal. Actually. She has a big deal and she's great. And so were all of you. I am heartened because even though we've taken all this time off, we've continued to grow our listenership.
0 (47s):
So thank you to you for listening, for continuing to listen for being a first-time listener. If you are thank you for being here, it's a privilege actually, to be able to have a platform to speak one's mind is truly a privilege. And one, I hope we do right by. We're going to be right back into the swing of things with interviews, regular weekly interviews in the fall. So stay tuned for that. And in the meantime, please enjoy this interview with Jackie burns and I'm Gina Kalichi
3 (1m 34s):
To theater school together. We survived it, but we didn't quite understand.
0 (1m 38s):
20 years later, we're digging deep talking to our guests about their experiences and trying to make sense of it all.
3 (1m 43s):
We survived theater school and you will too. Are we famous yet?
2 (1m 56s):
Here's the thing. Jackie burns. Congratulations. You survived theater school and you also survived this hellish trying to get you on. So squad quest squad cast, which we usually use is totally wonky this morning. And I was like, no, I, because I'm obsessed with you because I'd been researching you. I'm not a musical theater person, but I am one of these musical theater lovers that has so much reverie. And I think it is a sacred thing to sing and I don't really do it. And so I'm obsessed and you and I have the same birthday, October 4, 10, 4, buddy, ten four. So You're a little younger than me, five years, but that's okay.
2 (2m 41s):
I'm still, I'm super obsessed. And I also like I, when I watch, so I'm known for like going to high schools and middle schools and watching musical theater of people I'd have no connection to in what I was at when I was in Chicago, because I adore the art form and I don't do it, but I'm obsessed. So anyway, start, start from the beginning. You grew up in Connecticut. How, and then obviously you're a Broadway star. Are you back working in on Broadway? What's happening with you right now?
5 (3m 13s):
Oh my God. What is happening?
2 (3m 15s):
Yeah. I looked at your, I looked at all your profiles, but I want to hear it from you. Where are you post sort of pandemic. What is happening with your career? Tell us,
5 (3m 27s):
Oh God. Well like every musical theater theater,
2 (3m 31s):
Just say star, just say star, you are a star. You're a musical theater star. Like I understand for someone like I write for TV and I act sometimes, but like I musical theater people when I see them on stage, I'm like, I, the, the, the amount of brilliance it takes and dedication to, I have trouble on set, just moving my body and say, and you sing and move and dance and all the things. Okay. Okay. So what's happening with your career?
5 (4m 2s):
Oh my God. Well, first of all, Jen, I'm obsessed with you because I wish the rest of the world felt the same way about musical theater people because all of I'm most TV and film people are like, oh, you're not a real actor because you,
2 (4m 13s):
No, I would love to cast, listen, listen, what I mean? I would love to catch you and all your cohort when I do, because here's the thing. The body spatial awareness of musical theater folks, to know where they are in space translates onto set. So everyone listening, the 10,000 people that have downloaded this podcast that will continue to hire musical theater folks on television and film because they know bodies and bodies. It's not just a head people. So anyway, okay, go ahead. Sorry. I keep interrupting. I'm just like,
5 (4m 46s):
Nope. I love you. You're like making me feel so good about myself. But as every theater person, all we want to do is get on TV and film.
2 (4m 55s):
Oh, right. It's that's holds true for musical theater folks too. I assume that's where the dough is. Is that
5 (5m 1s):
That's where that money is. Because if you think about it, like once the theater show closes, we don't get a back end of it. So like, that's it. Your paycheck's done.
2 (5m 9s):
There's no residuals.
5 (5m 10s):
There's no residual.
2 (5m 12s):
Yeah. Okay. So, okay. So tell me what is happening now? You said you got your insurance back, which is
5 (5m 17s):
Paula that's hope. It's always helpful. I just did a new musical called a walk on the moon. That was based off the movie. No,
2 (5m 27s):
No,
5 (5m 29s):
No. I'll walk in the cloud. Like very similar. No,
2 (5m 33s):
She's dope. I like to
5 (5m 34s):
Have her with like Viggo, Mortensen, Schreiber. And when it was like back in the day, it's a good movie. Tony, Tony Goldwyn, like directed it and stuff. And he actually came and saw the musical. Did
2 (5m 47s):
He give you a compliment?
5 (5m 49s):
Yes, he was very nice. It was also like super handsome. You're like, hi,
2 (5m 52s):
I have heard. Yes.
5 (5m 54s):
You're just like, hello? Oh, you're married Ella and there's no, no, no, no, no. And my boyfriend's gonna listen to be like,
2 (6m 6s):
No, no, no. That's okay. That's okay.
5 (6m 8s):
No, he knows. He knows that I'm just joking. I'm just stroking on there. No. And then Pam gray wrote it. Who wrote the, who wrote the script as well? Yeah. And it's really good. And we just closed and they're hoping to bring it to Broadway. So fingers crossed. But the problem is, is that Broadway because it was closed for two years. All these shows have been trying to get theater. So that were like low man on the total whole cause it's like two years worth of shows trying to get to Broadway.
2 (6m 37s):
Correct.
5 (6m 37s):
So it's, and we're just like a little show rather than like a big show, so
2 (6m 43s):
Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. But still worked. You have worked post pandemic, which is a huge thing. Okay. So tell me, were you a kid? Who did you grow up? You grew up in Connecticut. I'm assuming, were you a kid? Like you were five and you were like, just ho like you knew you could sing or what, how did that go? How does that, how do you discover that you can freaking sing?
5 (7m 6s):
You're so cute. I'm going to like put your pocket. Your energy is like seven. I'm going to be a best friend now.
2 (7m 13s):
And we'll together. We'll try to, we'll try to have a television show. That's like, I know they did it kind of with glee, but like Glebe, like less sassy and more earnest.
5 (7m 23s):
Yes. I am interested Jen, get
2 (7m 26s):
And throwing some murders because I, I write a lot of murder. Yeah.
5 (7m 29s):
Oh, I love that. That's what
2 (7m 31s):
Musical murders. Great. Okay. So you, you were a kid and how did this happen? That you were like, dude, I can be on stage and sing.
5 (7m 38s):
I just like always was obsessed with it. Like, so I started dancing when I was three and then, but like I used to get on like the little like Hutch, you know, like the fireplace such as my stage and sing, sing to like Michael Jackson's thriller. And I just like, yeah. And I used to, when I used to go to dance, like as I got older, we drove like 45 minutes. My mom drove me very sweet to dance class. And I used to sing along with the radio and I was convinced that the DJ could hear me. And it was just like a matter of time before I got recording contract.
2 (8m 9s):
Listen, here's the thing about that is that yeah. Some people might think it's wacky, but what I think is that bill that shows that somewhere, you envisioned a world where people were listening to you and were going to pay you. And that it was going to be like, even though it was just a fantasy in a car, what it shows is that you had like a sort of an expansive mind as a kid, as a lot of, not every kid is doing, most kids are like, oh, I sound terrible. And I'm never going to make it out of this Podunk town. Like that's, that's where I was at. So you, you were you're on. Okay. And then, so the dancing and singing, and then what about the acting part? Like, cause you could have just been a singer and a dancer.
5 (8m 47s):
Totally. You know what this is going to be, I'm going to throw so much shade and
2 (8m 52s):
You
5 (8m 52s):
Can do it
2 (8m 53s):
Any way. You want shade, half shade, full shade, whatever you need.
5 (8m 57s):
I'm going to give full shade just because I think it's funny. But when I went to my dance school, brought us to New York the first time, even though I lived in Connecticut, which is super close to New York, like I live two hours from the city. We never went to the city. So I went to the city for my first time when I was like, I was 15 years old and we went and saw Greece with like Broadway. That was my first Broadway show that I ever saw. And it was with like, kind of was like Brooke shields, like Rosie O'Donnell like crazy. But I, I was kind of not impressed. I was like, wait, I could do this. Like I, you know, I coveted Broadway is like so big. So like that, that I, I realized I was like, everyone sounded really great and who was dancing really great.
5 (9m 41s):
But I was not impressed with the acting at that point. For some reason, I just kind of was like, oh, it felt very pantomimed me
2 (9m 49s):
Like presentational.
5 (9m 50s):
Yes. Yeah. Yes. Which sometimes it's like, and that's when I moved to LA, I lived in LA for like a hot second cause I did wicked in LA and then I met my managers at T grin, I think. Yes.
2 (10m 2s):
Yes. Oh yes, yes, yes, yes. Tikrit is amazing. Yes.
5 (10m 5s):
Yeah. He's amazing. And they were like, come move to LA and like, let's get you on TV and film. And then I moved there and then the pandemic happened and I was like, well
2 (10m 12s):
It was right then. Oh shit.
5 (10m 14s):
Yeah. I was there for like six months and it was great and it was fun. And like, but the thing that I realized is like, when I first got there and I started got into acting classes there, they were like, yo, you're a musical theater. So you only like color with like two of the crayons in your coloring box rather than all of them. Because you know, it's so far back. So you just have to like, you know, play to the back of the house and it's true. So many times you go see a show and it's like so broad and present presentation. It doesn't like bring, bring truthful. So that's
2 (10m 43s):
I think, no, I have to say it's like, I wish LA and I'm not, I I'm sure you went to amazing classes, but I wish so. I teach at the theater school at DePaul over zoom now that's where we went. Okay. So I teach there. And so the thing is, I wish we had a better language for saying that to people. So what, for me it is, is not, when I see musical theater actors on all it is, it's not so much for me that they have two colors. What it is is that they were exceptionally built for the, the thing they were doing. Right. And now they're doing something else. So you say like, okay, look, the dope thing about you is we know all that's in there.
2 (11m 25s):
It's just a matter of, of like super tweaking it and making it niche, niche nuanced. And it's a total teachable skill, which I'm sure they told you to like to oh yeah. Just is like, but the good news is I think I would, you know, I would more say you have all the colors, all the people that do musical theater have all the colors in there, or you wouldn't be able to go broad. And it's just a matter of pivoting to being a more like lasered focused situation. So anyway, all the musical theater people out there, I know we all have many all the colors, but it's true that there was also like in the arts and the late nineties where theater was Uber presentational, like, like, oh my gosh.
2 (12m 8s):
So you saw that and you were like, okay, I want to act, I could do this. And so then what did you do? Start taking classes or what happened as a kid?
5 (12m 16s):
So then that's, well, that's what I, I'm a year early from my grade. So I was going into college that next year. You know what I mean? So I just decided to just go to school for straight acting, just for acting rather than musical theater. Cause I felt like if you can sing, you can sing. Obviously you can always get better and stuff like that. But I was like, I really wanted to make sure that cause everything is from a storytelling place. Right. You know what I mean? It's like, so if, if you're a BA, if you know, so anyways, so that's why I went to
2 (12m 41s):
Wait a minute. So here's the thing about singing? Like, okay. So when you, how do you know like your small and you're doing like, you're standing on the hearth of your fireplace and doing your thing, but like how does one know like, oh shit, I can do this because here's my thing. Like I never tried because my sister was the singer in the family. So I just assumed that that was like, every family gets one and that was her thing later in life, look, I took classes and I'm, but I'm not like a, a hearth singer like yourself. Right. So, but how do you know, do people say to you I'm serious? Do people say to you, oh my gosh, Jackie, when you're young, do you remember people saying like, you can really fucking sing?
2 (13m 24s):
Not maybe not with the fucking, you know what I mean?
5 (13m 26s):
No, they said, yeah. They said, Jackie, you can fucking sing. And I was like six and I was like, oh my God, thank you so much. You know, what's so funny is that this now everyone's going to really know our age. When I was, when I was in elementary school, my mom made me do the, what is it called? The talent show. And I sang Peter pans. I won't grow up. She made me like various.
2 (13m 56s):
I love that. I'm glad she, but I also glad because that could lend itself to comedy. So that's good.
5 (14m 2s):
Oh. And she gave me all the like, like, like I won't grow up. I had, and she had like a thing like, oh, I don't want to wear a tie. Like she, like, all the parents made a big deal out of me and they wanted to throw a bake sale to send me to star search. It was hilarious. But then all the little girls that I was friends with all hated me after.
2 (14m 23s):
Well, see here's well, that
5 (14m 25s):
Was,
2 (14m 25s):
That happens. I'll I'll all the time, so. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Did you go to star search first of all?
5 (14m 32s):
No. No. I was too busy, crying every day because I had no friends and wanting to like be homeschooled.
2 (14m 37s):
So yeah. Yeah. I hear you. I, I, here's the thing about that. It's like, I don't have kids and I'm never going to have kids that ship has sailed thankfully. And so I, it's interesting to think about kids and like, what is it? I wish what I wish. So what I wish never happens. And that's why I say, I wish, I wish that the kids had said, oh my gosh, Jackie, you can sing. Yes. You got attention. Teach us how to do it. Or maybe let's, let's collaborate together, but they're like six and nobody's going to fucking collaborate when they're six, maybe. But like, I wish it had been more collaborative because look, what if you had like put on a production together with the girls that, but instead they ostracize you a little bit.
2 (15m 21s):
So then did you keep your singing or were you like, fuck you, I'm going to sing anyway. How did that go?
5 (15m 25s):
Oh, and then, so then, so then I went to junior high and then I actually always said like that it was junior high and the chorus teacher made a big deal out of me. And I like won all these awards and like, got like, like whatever I got all these solos and stuff. And then the parents started complaining to the chorus teacher that why is this little girl getting all the solos and not our daughter's getting solos. So then,
2 (15m 47s):
Wow. So here's the thing like, look, look, look, I understand that we want things to be equal, but how about then, like if I ran in the world or even had a little part of it, this is what I would do, I would say all right. All right. All right. So Jackie can sing her ass off. She's amazing. But why don't we pivot and turn and also look at what makes little Emily and little Jane amazing. And, and, and, and bolster that instead of trying to damp in Jackie's flame, like, it just doesn't make any sense to me. So like, I have this new phrase in Hollywood and people probably hate me. And when I go to meetings, I'm like, look, we have to collaborate or die.
2 (16m 27s):
Like that's where we're at agree. Right? Like adapt and collaborate or get the fuck out of the way. And people are like, oh, this crazy bitch. But here's the thing. The collaboration is going to be the only thing that saves us on our planet and in many ways. So wouldn't, it have been great. If they had said I should have my own POS podcast, that's just called wouldn't it have been great because I, I, I feel like I say that so much to people like, wouldn't it have been great if they, the parents had said, oh my God, like, Jackie's dope. But if Jackie can do it, that maybe means like my Susie can tap, dance her ass off or make pottery like a motherfucker. So like, let's focus on those things rather than dampening Jackie's, you know, it's so it's so such, such terrible behavior, but okay.
2 (17m 10s):
So junior high also, did you, were you like, oh shit. I can sing. And I'm amazing, but these people hate my guts or how did it?
5 (17m 17s):
Yeah. Yes. And then the caveat is when I went to high school, the junior high teacher told the high school teacher that I was like very special. And like, they should, she should put me in like senior prior. And then that teacher hated me and told me I was flat and told me, I sucked every day to the point I stopped singing. I just,
2 (17m 37s):
You know what that reminds me of wait, was it, was it a lady teacher? Okay. It reminds me of glee when it's a Dina and, and what's her name and you know, the one people like to talk shit about, I don't know her. Leah, Leah, Leah.
5 (17m 55s):
Yeah.
2 (17m 55s):
So they, that exact thing happens. And it's just, it's just, and maybe that's what happened. Maybe it's jealousy. Maybe it's maybe it's like, how dare someone be special? I never got to do the thing or whatever it is. It's not your, you were a kid. It was not your PR, even in high school, your problem to figure that out. So you stopped singing what? That now there's the real travesty, right?
5 (18m 16s):
Yeah. So then I stopped singing in choir. I would just like lip sync and she would still be like, oh, I hear is Jackie all layers, Jackie sound. It was horrible. Miss Hilton. I'll tell you to say it anyway. She was horrible to me. And then for college, you had to write, she, you had to get a letter of recommendation. And she told me she had nothing nice to say about me and she wouldn't write it. So then the guidance counselor, I had to write it for me. It was so that I could audition for schools.
2 (18m 43s):
Okay. That lady, that lady is whore. That's a horrible thing.
5 (18m 47s):
Yeah. I know. And then my brother, this is so funny. My brother, Kevin, my brother is seven years younger than me. And so when he went to high school, he had her too. And the first day of school went through and was like, Joey burns any relationship to Jackie burns. And he was like, yeah, that's my sister. And he was, she was like, yeah, she's still trying to make it on Broadway. And he was like, oh yeah, she's on Broadway in hair actually. And it shut her right up. And then all of a sudden she was like, oh, I've always knew she was going to make it. I was like,
2 (19m 16s):
Okay, here's the thing like, that is a sad, sad, human being. Like, if you are a teacher of youngsters and you cannot foster them in any way, then, then you, that is not the right fit for you. My friends. And also I I'm, well, it's, it's no shocker. I was a former, I'm a former therapist for, for people when they got up, I got out of prison. So like, all my bent is like on a psychological lens, but like a trauma lens, usually with this stuff. But it's like lady, I understand Ms. Whatever. Hilman, what's her name?
5 (19m 50s):
Hilton
2 (19m 50s):
Hilton. Ms. Hilton Paris Hilton. I understand if it was somehow related, I understand that you've got trauma that you haven't worked on, whatever, but that is not the children, the high high-schoolers responsibility, my friend, that is your responsibility. Just like it's my responsibility. And Jackie's responsibility to work on the shit that happened to us. So anyway, oh my God. Well, thank gosh for guidance counselors. I would have been like the guidance counselor. I would have been like,
5 (20m 16s):
She was the best. Yeah.
2 (20m 18s):
Ms. Fitzgerald. Thank you, Ms. Fitzgerald. Okay. So then you go to connect. You went to school in Connecticut, right?
5 (20m 23s):
Yeah. So then my parents were like, and then I, so I graduated when I was 17, so I, and I, because we're October. Yeah. And so what was the youngest class to get our drivers?
2 (20m 35s):
Yes, but like the best in terms of like, I got to college, I was 17. I was like, Hey, I'm young. And I'm got,
5 (20m 41s):
Say that same, same, but my so, but I didn't want to go to college. I was like, I'm just gonna move to New York and be a star. And my parents were like, yeah, you're 17. So no, you're not. And I was like, oh, okay. So I didn't put a lot of effort into looking into school. So I only audition for three schools, NYU boss' conservatory and Yukon. My parents were like, you should audition for the state school. Just, you know, whatever. Yeah.
2 (21m 2s):
It's also cheapest, cheaper, much cheaper. Right.
5 (21m 5s):
So, yeah. That's what, and that's what my parents said. They were like, listen, you can graduate. They're like, this is how much money we can afford. The rest is going to be loans and on you. They're like, so you're not graduating. And being a doctor like in going into like maybe a work, maybe what we think you'll work. My parents were always very supportive of me.
2 (21m 22s):
That's awesome.
5 (21m 23s):
So great. Yeah. They were never, they were, they weren't like, you need a backup plan. They were like, yeah, we think you'll make it. But they were like, you don't go. Right. So like, you know, they're like, you can graduate with a shit ton of debt or you can graduate basically debt free. And I chose to go to school debt free. I was like
2 (21m 41s):
So smart because let me tell you something. When the sheriff comes to your house, because you don't pay off your grad school loans, Jen Bosworth, Ramirez over here and says, you took out a private loan for your grad school in counseling psych, and you never paid it back. And so now we're here to collect. Literally the sheriff came to my house. I thought to myself, this was a poor choice that I, I did not need to take out this loan that I apparently, I mean, look, fit shit, happens for a reason. But what I'm saying is when I hear these stories, that people that chose to be debt free instead of go to Juilliard and take out $7,700,000 in debt or whatever, or in loans, I'm like, yes, because especially in this career, even if you are brilliant, and even if you are magical and are a star, you it's still, the paycheck is the paycheck right.
2 (22m 29s):
On Broadway. So, so good for you. Okay. So you up, well, how was your college experience, Jackie? Like, how would you say that was
5 (22m 36s):
Again also hilarious and the fact that, because I sang and I went to school for just straight acting, they all made fun of me for like sitting. They were like, oh, you want to do musical? That's not real acting. And I always left with laugh and be like, I'm going to actually work. So, you know,
2 (22m 53s):
Oh, people or any. Okay. So when I was on crew, I was on crew at DePaul theater school and we would do one musical a year, which I was never casting, but
5 (23m 4s):
Same thing we did one musical a year,
2 (23m 6s):
I guess. Were you the, I hope you were the fucking star everyone.
5 (23m 9s):
No. Sometimes no, because the grad actors would be the stars.
2 (23m 14s):
Oh my God. I bet they're kicking themselves. But anyway, okay. So I was crew and I was on makeup and I think Gina was too. And anyway, w I was on crew and I would literally, and it was into the woods, which is my favorite. And I would sit on the edge of the stage and Rapunzel, this woman, Jen, who was a Rapunzel and reposal, I would watch. And I would be like, oh my gosh. And Brockie, I think it was Brockie who did last midnight. And I just was be like, this is magic. So anyway, okay. So that was like me. And I would like miss my, my job because I would be listening and watching these musical theater people, I just would love, they were, I was like in love.
2 (23m 54s):
So anyway. Okay. So when you, you wouldn't be the star at Yukon
5 (23m 58s):
Sometimes, sometimes that like you, like, yeah. Towards the end, I started getting some starring work roles, which was great.
2 (24m 4s):
What was your favorite role at Yukon?
5 (24m 11s):
You know what I think it's, I think it was my favorite role. Cause I would never get cast in the real world was Joanna and Sweeney. Todd, because putting me in a bland blonde wig is it's a very unfortunate level. Oh, it's not good.
2 (24m 24s):
Okay. Okay. So you, Joanna is sweet. Sweet has a rough one.
5 (24m 28s):
Yeah. And also we love murder, but so like I'm not your quintessential ingenue and you know what I mean? Like, I don't have an ingenue look, you know,
2 (24m 38s):
You have more of like a fierce, like a fierce, like a warrior villain look.
5 (24m 42s):
Yeah. I'm a, I'm a Maleficent. I'm not an Elsa. You know what I mean? Like that's
2 (24m 48s):
Is what it is. It is what it is. I
5 (24m 50s):
Love it. Yeah.
2 (24m 51s):
I'm the crazy neighbor. I'm the crazy lady. I love it. I'll take it.
5 (24m 56s):
Yeah. Save. So it's like, I would never play that in the real world. So I loved that because it was a chance for me. Cause I never get to the icing can sing soprano. Nobody knows that like really well, like I actually prefer seas, but I don't ever sing soprano because,
2 (25m 10s):
Oh, I didn't understand that. Of course like the way the, the, the, the, the part is written. Yeah. The ingenue is probably our Sopranos.
5 (25m 20s):
Yeah. This is their soprano. And they're like the little blonde next door.
2 (25m 23s):
And the earthier grounded tone is more of the villainous to, or like the serious business tone. Okay. Very cool. Very cool. Okay. So also sweetened, I didn't know when I saw it, when I was younger, that what it was about and I saw it and I was like, what the fuck is going out? These meat pies, this is cannibalism. And it was crazy. Yeah. I love it now. Cause I write about that stuff, but like, I was like, why is this, why are they, why is he's cutting his throat? What's happening here. So anyway, I thought it was going to be like wizard of Oz. No, no, like, yeah. I didn't know. So. Okay. So you graduate and then are you like, fuck it, I'm moving to New York right away. Like how did this go?
5 (26m 2s):
Yeah. And then I moved out into New York to New York, with my best friend from college. We got randomly put together. She was not an actor. I didn't really hang out with any of the acting people. I like hung out with all normal people.
2 (26m 13s):
That's much better choice.
5 (26m 16s):
Yeah. And so, and even though going to school for straight acting, I wasn't around music, musical theater, people are a different energy, especially, it's a lot of, you know,
2 (26m 26s):
And he, you know, it's a lot, but it's also, I got to say like, it's a lot. And as I get older, I really appreciate it more because it's a way of sort of owning your space. But like when you were in high school and college and you sit in a restaurant next to a table of musical theater people, you're like, oh God, may I may lose it. So, yeah. Okay. So you graduate and you and your roommate from Yukon move into Manhattan or what, where do you go to
5 (26m 50s):
Yeah, we move it. Yeah. We, we lived together for 11 years actually. Yeah. Like we were like common law until I moved in with my ex-husband at the time. Like yeah. Like,
2 (26m 60s):
Yeah. Okay. And so what happens? You get an agent. How does this work for you? Jacqueline?
5 (27m 4s):
Yeah. It's so funny. So, well, I, I have such a random way. So I moved and I went to one audition.
2 (27m 11s):
What was it? Four, four. I
5 (27m 12s):
Don't even remember. I just remember I was at Chelsea studio. I don't even think that they
2 (27m 17s):
Do physical theater.
5 (27m 18s):
It was musical theater. And that was another thing because they didn't go to musical theater school. I didn't have like a
2 (27m 23s):
Book,
5 (27m 25s):
Like, so like, you know, I went to this, it was like a cattle call audition with like, you know, as non-union 8 million girls in a room
2 (27m 33s):
Shit. And they all had books and shit. I don't, I didn't even know what a book was. Cause I, until like last year I was like, she's like, I gotta refresh my book. I was like, yeah, just get a book, any book? And she's like, no girl. No. So, okay. So you show up there and how does it go? Are you nervous? Are you like, no, I can fucking sing. Fuck you.
5 (27m 50s):
No, I, I, I was there and I was waiting and everybody was wearing like the same dresses. It was like straight up like Jason, Robert Brown, you know, from last five years. And everybody's like talking about what they've done and dah, dah, dah, and their book and what they're going to sing. And I just had a panic attack and I left. I was like, Nope, I'm going. And I didn't audition for like two years. I just like lived in the city and like waitressed and like hung out with my friends. You know what I mean? It just was like a ridiculous,
2 (28m 15s):
Yeah. Living your life, like living your life. Like, you know what? I, I respect that. Like I, I, okay. The one, oh my God. The one audition girl I had. Oh my gosh. So I had to go to the lyric opera of Chicago because they were, they were, they were supposedly hiring non singers for like, or like just singers, but non, non opera singers for this, this thing that this big New York person was coming in the Merry widow of, I don't know. Yeah. Okay. Fine. So my agent's like, you got, I'm like, you know, I don't sing. They're like, no, no. They're just looking for people that can carry a tune or like, and I'm like, okay. But you know, and she's like, no, just go it's for this non more of an acting funny part.
2 (28m 59s):
And I'm like, okay, dude, like just learn 12 bars. So I, I learned the Cinderella stepsister song from Rogers and Hammerstein. Like why would a one out of eight? It's like a, it's like the ridiculous. Okay. So I go and I go into the bowels of the opera, the, the lyric opera where there's no cell reception. So I can't like text anyone and be like, I'm fucking in the wrong place. What the fuck? All the women come in, Jackie and they start and I hear them warming up and they're seeing opera opera. And I'm like, okay, okay. So I go to the bathroom, no reception. I'm trying to call my agent. Like I can't do this. And I go out and they're like, Jen, you're up? And I walk in.
2 (29m 40s):
Yeah, I'd walk in. And I hand my music to the piano player and he, and it's all these people. I never been to a musical theater audition, let alone an opera situation. And the guy on the panel just starts and I blacked out. I don't know what happened, Jackie. I didn't, I, I, I don't know what happened. It was awful. And I, I, like, I like left my body and they walk out and I'm like, and I walk out on the corner in Chicago downtown, and it just opens up. It starts pouring on me and I start crying on the corner and I call my agent. I'm like, I don't think it went so well. And then I tell them, anyway, I have no recollection of the, the, the audition.
2 (30m 24s):
Like I blacked out. So listen, I understand. And I couldn't sing and you could sing. And you were like, I'm out. So, so, okay. So you left and you for two years, you were a waitress and you were, you were kicking it with your friends. And then how did you work your way? Back in
5 (30m 40s):
My best friend came in with a backstage. She didn't even really know what it was. And she was like, you have to go to this audition today. Or you can't like hang out tonight. And I was like, she was like, come on, you didn't come. You didn't move here to be a waitress. And I was
2 (30m 52s):
Like, what was it for
5 (30m 54s):
Tokyo Disney in Japan?
2 (30m 56s):
Oh,
5 (30m 57s):
It was hilarious. And that, and I booked it. And that was my first job.
2 (30m 60s):
You went to Tokyo and you were worked at Disney.
5 (31m 2s):
Yeah. It was so fun. And they had this Broadway review. So I did this broad, they had this Broadway review show where I sang like mama rose and Avita. And like, it was hilarious. It was so fun. Yeah. It was so fun.
2 (31m 15s):
Did you do that Jackie?
5 (31m 17s):
Because nine months.
2 (31m 19s):
Oh my gosh.
5 (31m 20s):
So we
2 (31m 21s):
Did that. You make good money.
5 (31m 23s):
Yeah. It was great money. And then, and then I met this guy climbing, Mount Fuji, this Australian guy, and like fell in love. And so then I called my best friend, Rachel, who is just like the coolest person. And I was like, let's go to Australia. I also didn't like New York when I moved there, like, and she was like, okay. So like, we moved to Australia for like a year and like hung out there. And then I w we got kicked out cause our visa ran out, you know? And then, so then we came back to New York and I still hated New York. And I was like, Ugh,
2 (31m 51s):
What is your waving? And wait a minute. What you hate about it? Like, what did you not like about New York when you moved there?
5 (31m 57s):
Non-green you talk about Connecticut and the green light. And I live literally in
2 (32m 1s):
The middle of the middle of that,
5 (32m 2s):
On the shoreline, in the middle of nowhere, live in like a lake. It's all like, you know, it's like beautiful. And I'm a very outdoorsy girl. So it was just like, it was so ugly, concrete. It was so dirty. And I just was like, I missed the outdoors, you know what I mean? I miss like green. And so I just, I didn't, I just didn't like it, you know, now I love the city, but like, I just, I did not, it took me a while, but then I came back and I was like, that still don't want to be here. So I auditioned for a cruise ship and I got this. So then I went on a cruise ship and I was supposed to be there for nine months. And then four months into the cruise ship. I was like, what am I doing with my life? Like, I don't want to be like singing to old people, sleeping in the audience. Like, you know what I mean? So
2 (32m 42s):
Listen, it's old people. And then me, I go to those and I'm on the cruise. And I go to the musical reviews and I am like weeping in the audience and share
5 (32m 53s):
<inaudible> yeah.
2 (32m 58s):
Yeah. People sleeping. Yeah. No, I was like the one person and I know they were all asleep or like, or like snoring or like maybe a coma and like I, or like dead. And I was like, oh my God, this is the best thing. But I usually was alone in that. Okay. So you got off the cruise ship for months and you were like, Nope.
5 (33m 15s):
Yeah. And it was hilarious. Cause they, the lady, because with the way the cruise ship worked, like if you just leave, then you have to pay out your contract, which I did not want to do. Cause you, you know, so I was like, yeah, I'm having, I was like, I'm having, I said I was having episodes of like wanting to jump, you know what I mean? Cause like not seeing land for so long is like, and it was hilarious. Cause the lady totally knew the director knew I was lying. Her name's Natalie. And she was like, Jackie, she was like, if, if you say this, you'll never work on a cruise ship again, like you'll never get to come. And I was like, I'm okay with that.
2 (33m 48s):
So you got off.
5 (33m 51s):
So then I got off and
2 (33m 53s):
It's like a, it's like a psychological discharge kind of a
5 (33m 55s):
Situation. They don't want you to jump.
2 (33m 58s):
No, no, they don't want that.
5 (33m 60s):
No. And so then I'm moved back to the city and I was like, all right, I'm gonna audition. And, and so at that point I auditioned for this smokey Joe's yeah, yeah. I'd done like five smoking joints and this vector. Yeah. This, it was like one of my favorites. This cast director was like, Steven dandle is so nice. He was like, I want to help me call me the, after my audition. He was like, I think you're super talented. I want to help you. I want to help you get an agent. And I was like, okay. I was just very lucky. And so that's how I got my first agent. And then I had an audition for hair in the park, in Shakespeare, in the park and books that, so that, and I remember calling my parents when I got that. And I was like, this is, this is like the chicken before the egg type of thing, you know?
5 (34m 41s):
It's like, it's like, we love you, but you've never done probably before. So we can't give you a better show. And you're like, but how do I get a Broadway show? Unless you give me a Broadway show, you know what I mean? I was like, this is a game changer. And I knew, and it was great. And that's like kind of then from there on like
2 (34m 56s):
Here, was that, what year was that? The hair in the park here in the park.
5 (35m 1s):
I want to say it was it 2007.
2 (35m 4s):
Okay. Okay. Amazing.
5 (35m 8s):
Yeah. And it was great. And then while I was doing that in the park, all the girls in my dressing room were going in for this new show called rock of ages and, and, and my agents were small at the time, so they couldn't get me. I couldn't get in. And I was like, what the F I'm so right for this show. And then finally at the end I got an audition and there was one roll left the stage swing for like the dancer tracks. And I, at that point hadn't danced since I was 17, had been like, you know, almost 10 years. And I can tell you, I blew that, see dance so bad. Like everyone was going that one way. And I was one of those where it's like, there's no way I'm getting this, but I booked it because the music director fought for me and was like, no, I really want her voice.
5 (35m 50s):
Like I really want her. And so thankfully
2 (35m 53s):
We talk a lot about on this podcast and I just talk a lot about it in my consulting and stuff with my clients. It's like, here's the thing. Like, and, and, and tell me your thoughts on this. Like my, my, you know, my new sort of vision for things is look, and the people have told me this and I never listened because I was a fucking idiot. But like, like we're booking the room, we're not booking the job. Right. We're booking the people like that. We're booking our champions. We're making fans of our work everywhere we go. And we just don't know who our champions are going to be. So you might as well, like, just really try to, what is it like you're booking the room, right?
2 (36m 35s):
Like we're. Yeah. So, so you had these champions early on, not that you didn't have the talent and the fucking work ethic too, but you had champions like the guy who called the casting man who called you and told you, I want to help you. And like, and, and, and then the, the musical director on rock of ages, that's amazing. And I think, and I'm trying to sort of figure out like, and what are your thoughts on Why people want to champion certain people? Is it because that, I guess it's a leading question. What I think is that people are decent humans and they want to champion other decent humans, not just the talented voice or the stunning person, but like the decency inside the human something comes through.
2 (37m 23s):
Do you think that's, that has any validity to it or am I crazy?
5 (37m 27s):
No, I do think like you onset or in a, in a, in rehearsal, you're with these people for so many hours, if the person is talented, but they suck as a human, like who wants to be suck on sets with 16 hours or in a rehearsal room for eight hours? You know what I mean? Like,
2 (37m 44s):
I feel like you are one of those. And I would say yes, because I'm talking to you and I'm good with, I know people, but like what, what do you think it is about you? Like, I'm always talking about this to famous people and to stars and to like, what do you think it is about you that people want to work with?
5 (38m 4s):
I'm very I'm game to do anything. Like I I've no ego.
2 (38m 9s):
You're curious. You're humble. You have fond. It sounds like you have fun. You like that?
5 (38m 15s):
Yes. I think my biggest fault, like is that I am humble to a fault. So therefore I think we tell people how to treat us. So sometimes my humility will come across as a lack of confidence. And that's the problem. Cause you know, it's like, it's a lot of money there. Producers are putting on your shoulders and the person that comes in with the confidence that like, Hey, I'm amazing.
2 (38m 39s):
Let me tell you something. I'm five years older than you. And I'm just getting it. So I now can walk into a room and first excuse my language, but now I can walk into a room and I can swing my Dick. Yeah. I know I have done the work. I have seen what's out there and I know what I have to contribute and I'm also not. But I spent, and if you listen to it all in the podcast, you know, both Gina and I, we spent our twenties and even my thirties going pick me, choose me, love me on some level. Even if I wasn't saying that it was coming out somehow in rooms. Right. So nobody wants that.
2 (39m 20s):
Right? Like nobody, that's not, it's not even something it's not even about attractiveness. It's like not even attractive in like a human way. Right? Like in a working relationship kind of way. So now I walk in and I'm like, it's not that. And I think also like, and people say this all the time, like people mistake, humbleness for weakness all the time, but there's also something in us that's projecting this sort of smallness. Even if we're not saying it until now, like it took me until 40, like whatever to say, oh fuck, no, I've seen what's out there. And I know I belong and it's not constant. So do you feel like you're coming into that?
5 (40m 1s):
Yeah. I think that, I feel like I had figured it out like two years before the pandemic. I really kind of, you know what it was for me. I stood by for Idina Menzel and this show called if then on Broadway. And it was the height of her career. It was when frozen came out and she was on the Oscars. And like everybody she's like, you know, everyone was obsessed with her. They were coming to see her specifically in the show. They weren't coming to see the show. They were coming to see her standing by for her people were viscerally angry when I was on, you know what I mean? Because you know, they came to see like, people have flown in from me. I had this British woman yell at me because like she had flown in from England and to see a Dina and I was on and I was like, I'm sorry, like it's not my fault.
5 (40m 45s):
You know what I mean? Like, you know, so, but that gave me the comp and I had to like win the audience over, like, you know what I mean?
2 (40m 54s):
So they don't throw things at you, right?
5 (40m 56s):
Yeah. Like you could feel the shift. There was a song called what the fuck? And like, I always knew. I'd like, that's like, when I would get the audience, that's your
2 (41m 3s):
Side
5 (41m 3s):
Where they'd be like, okay, like it's not a Deena. Like, she's
2 (41m 6s):
Awesome.
5 (41m 7s):
But this girl, like, it's not like a terrible name. Right. You know what I mean? Like,
2 (41m 12s):
But that help, we can't help. But like this lady.
5 (41m 14s):
Yeah. Like, you know what I mean? Like she's at least like, not bad. So that gave me the confidence. Like I had gotten to the place where I was like, ma I believed in myself because it had to, because nobody else did. Right. So I had to like, be like, okay. And that's, I was in a really good place. And the same thing, like when I moved to LA, like I was doing really well, like getting into like producer session callbacks for like service. Like you don't get like, great. And then the pandemic happened and I'm slowly getting my mojo back. Because like, after having that two years, almost three years of like living in this void, this vacuum of self-tapes where you don't know what's going on, you know, like there's no creativity.
2 (41m 51s):
Yes.
5 (41m 52s):
That I'm slowly being like, okay, I do know what I'm doing.
2 (41m 57s):
Can you tell Tega right. Yes. I see you. And maybe I'll listen to this, send it to them. I feel like if I were an Tikosyn, you'd be like, okay, crazy bitch. You don't know what you're doing, but listen, if I were marketing, you I'd be like, she is the next Rene Russo meets. And I haven't figured out the meats part, but Like, I always have a meats, you know? And it's going to be someone, a little weirder. You know what I mean? Like my cause I always skew weird. So when I, so like, you are like, I can see it, but oh, you're the next Rene Russo. But with a fucking voice, how about that? That's how I would pitch you pitch you with a fucking voice to make the gods weep.
2 (42m 38s):
That's how I would pitch not a manager, but you know, and I haven't actually heard you sing, although you sang a little bit in, I write in this tape, I can tell, you can tell like musical theater and like people could really sing, even when they're like joking around. It's like, wow, the rest of us are like, what the fuck was that? When I mess around, I'm like, man, you're like, oh, it was just like a little bit like, whoa, what the fuck? So anyway, the point is, you're brilliant. And I could totally, I could see you being like the next bad-ass Rene Russo type. Who's like, you know, in the Thomas crown affair, like that kind of thing. That's how I would T grim
5 (43m 14s):
T grin. Listen, I tell him, tell him,
2 (43m 16s):
Tell him. And he's gonna be like, oh, that crazy bitch. So, okay. The thing is now. So we have about 10 minutes left and I want to focus on like, what are your dreams? Like, where do you want to be? What do you want to do? Where do you want to go?
5 (43m 31s):
So many good questions. I mean, I want to originate. I really just want to be originating roles. Okay.
2 (43m 37s):
Okay. Tell me more about what that means. Like, I don't even, we don't talk like that in Hollywood. So what does that mean?
5 (43m 42s):
Well, like, cause you know, Broadway shows, there's like a lot of long running shows, but like <inaudible> originated wicked. So they wrote the show for her. You know what I mean?
2 (43m 52s):
Okay. So this is great to know because a lot of us don't know this. Okay. So they write for the people. She did not audition for that or she did
5 (44m 2s):
No, she, no, she auditioned, but then once she got it. Yeah. So it's like all of a sudden if like, oh, you know, like,
2 (44m 10s):
Okay, I am that's okay. I have a dog I'm at my office, but I have a crazy dog named Doris. Who's insane. So don't worry.
5 (44m 18s):
I have a puppy. And she's like, she's hit her like, oh yeah. I've been
2 (44m 22s):
Grab her.
5 (44m 24s):
Can you come over here please? No. Okay. So yeah like, like with, if then they like, you know, like they changed so many keys for her to like find what is good for her, you know what I know? So that way this is done, but so, you know, I want to originate. I want to be at a place where I'm not replacing, you know, I want to be originating. So that way
2 (44m 51s):
Originating roles on Broadway.
5 (44m 54s):
Yes. And I really want to get into TV and film. I like want to be doing
2 (44m 57s):
So. So yeah. And I don't think there's any reason why not. And it's starting to pick up again. So like I would just put it out there that I, if I were you, I would give I'm giving you totally unsolicited advice To LA for another try another six months out here. And I feel like it's different. What I feel in LA right now. And it's why I moved from Chicago is that there is an expansiveness in Los Angeles that look, it can be full of garbage, of course. But there is an expansiveness and the people I'm meeting are like, especially the younger folks are like creating massive amounts of art and content.
2 (45m 40s):
And even I'm seeing theater out here and it's amazing. And also film and TV. So all I would say is, I think we're in an age where I, it does feel like in LA a lot of things and people listening like old, old timers listening are probably like, oh, shut up. But like, I do feel like we are coming to the end of where it's oversaturated with content from streamers and people are like, no, no, no, we don't need more. What we need is like very specific shows and movies that are, I think we're good. We're contracting a little bit, which is not bad. So it's going to be more for me anyway, like gritty, heartfelt, smaller stories, which I fucking adore.
2 (46m 23s):
So all I'm saying is come to LA and we'll be friends. That's what I'm saying, Come to my office and we can hang out and do all the things. But anyway, okay. So you want to do film and TV? Like what kind of roles? Like if I said to you, okay, magic wand. Here you go. Jackie, what kind of roles are you? I know you're like, so game to play anything, but like where do you think you'd really shine in television and film?
5 (46m 48s):
I think I'd really, that's a good, such a good, really good question. I think I am more of a, like of a quirkier than most people think I am. Do you know what I mean? Like a lot of people, especially like when I straightened my hair and like, they're like, oh, you're like a sexy, like, you know, and I'm like, I'm really kind of goofy and quirky.
2 (47m 9s):
Yeah. You're like more of an ally McBeal than a like Gina Gershon. Bad-ass like that you have a more quirky quirkiness to it.
5 (47m 18s):
Yes. And because I looked the way I looked people, I was just thinking about baddest, but I have a softness about me that I can't get rid of. Like I did just, there just is I, and so I am like the funny, but like also I'm going to tell you the truth. Cause I do have like, but in a, not in a, like, I'm going to cut your throat kind of way.
2 (47m 38s):
It's not aggressive. It's yeah. It's more like Ernest than that. There is an earnest quality.
5 (47m 45s):
Yeah. So I'm that? I just think like, you know, the best friend that's going to keep it real, but also as kind of a shit show and like, yeah,
2 (47m 51s):
Yeah, yeah. It's reminds me of like, you could, you could play a lot of things, but like you could play the partner of someone on television who like, who like keeps their partner in line, but it's also funny and sassy, but like is the, is the true north to somebody right. And earnest true north that's totally.
5 (48m 15s):
Yeah. Yes.
2 (48m 17s):
I feel like I should have a podcast where people come on and I like help market them.
5 (48m 21s):
I would, yes. I think that people wouldn't
2 (48m 24s):
Malarious, I'd be like, you're a real kind of Mike Shannon meats, you know, I don't know, John C. Riley type with a side of Ben Affleck or something like that. But anyway. Yeah. So, okay. So you want to do that and then are you auditioning right now for, is there what's happening on Broadway? What's happening off Broadway that you, that are you excited about? Anything what's happening? That you're excited about? Nothing. Okay, great.
5 (48m 50s):
I sadly to say it's kind of been really dry. Like I haven't had much additions and it's been a little like brutal.
2 (49m 0s):
Okay. Good to know. I mean, I look, look, it's better to be honest because here's the thing, like if we, and it also comes across, you know, that like if people come on this podcast or like, I'm talking to someone even in a party and they're like, it's fabulous. I mean, blah, blah, blah. And you're like, I don't buy this because I just don't buy it. My bullshit meter goes off. So it's been brutal. And I have to say like, it's been a really brutal for me too, but like in a, in a, in a, across the board. And I think this is a time. I mean, we're, I'm, I'm a triple Libra. So I have sun moon rising, all Libra, which means that I'm just a bonkers, but it also means I, we, I feel that we are in a huge transition time and as systems, whether that's Broadway, Hollywood, the government, whatever you believe, whatever systems as they sort of start to falter and fall in some ways, which is scary.
2 (49m 55s):
Cause it's, you know, I don't know. I have my thoughts about capitalism, but like systems are failing a little bit just because of the pandemic because of life, the climate, all this stuff, those of us in positions too are called to really come stand up and say, what do I want? How can I help? How can I be of service? And what do I really want to create? So it's like a beautiful time for artists to say, look, it's brutal too, but like there's opportunity in the brutality of like, wait a minute, who do I want to collaborate with? How do I want to collaborate? What kind of art do I want to make?
2 (50m 35s):
And what am I willing to do to make a living? And what am I not? And mostly for me, it's been about like, who do I want to align with? Who do I want to make, have partnerships with? And that to me is more important actually than the tasks I'm doing. It's like if I go into a writer's room and the, and the showrunners are fantastic and the writers are like we're crew and a team it's like, that would be I, and I'm all, I'm like totally putting this out into the universe. So I haven't been there yet. So like, I'm pre, but like, I can imagine that that is like more important to me than the actual dialogue or writing. Do you know what I mean?
5 (51m 15s):
Yes. I
2 (51m 16s):
Will work on whatever show, if the people in charge and the team are dope as hell, it's sort of not as important, what the it's still important, but it's not like it's more for me anyway. It's more the team, right? It's the team and who gets me and who I get. And at the end of the day, am I willing to go to bat for these people? And are they willing to go to bat for me versus it's like, again, it goes back to like collaboration versus, you know, like pick me, choose me, love me. And so that's what I wish for you is like, is like you find your next team of people that are like your champions that you can champion.
2 (51m 57s):
And then I think the project will sort of work itself out. Do you know what I mean?
5 (52m 1s):
Yeah, totally.
2 (52m 2s):
So listen, casting, listen, listen, people, Jackie burns. Bad-ass not just musical theater star, but musical theater star. And yeah. So what else is happening? Anything else you need to say, like to your, to people listening that they must to know about you or where you are in your life in the world? Because this is like, we talk a lot about in this podcast about legacy. Like I don't have kids, so I don't know. So a lot of people can have their legacy through their children and I don't have that. And I have an asshole dog that doesn't give a shit about legacy and she's not gonna do anything for legacy. So I, my legacy is like this part of it is this podcast, which is going to be around forever until the aliens, you know, whatever.
2 (52m 46s):
And so, or whoever's taking over, what do you want, what do you have anything to say for posterity? That's like going to be immortalized forever on in the cloud?
5 (52m 59s):
I think for me, I am, it's all about like work ethic. I am such a, I never take for, I never take for granted. Like a lot of people will talk about, and it's not to say that I don't get tired and I don't get like, there aren't times where I'm like, oh God, this is brutal. But there, it never leaves me in the fact that like, anytime I get to do a show and I get stressed out about, I am definitely, I deal with my own issues with perfection. Like, you know what I mean? Yeah. Like where, but it never leaves me that like, I am so lucky to get to do this. And I am so grateful for the audience. Like, it makes me want to cry. Like I like when people are like, oh, sometimes I go on autopilot where it's like, oh, it's the seventh show of the week. And it's like, but those people in that seven show or eights or a weekend spent so much money to come and see this show that I can't help, but give 180% every time I get out the gate because I am so appreciate.
5 (53m 50s):
Cause I know if they didn't come, we wouldn't have a job. And also there's like 8 million people that were up for this one role. And somehow I got it. And I'm not saying I wasn't talented enough for it because you know, we all are.
2 (54m 4s):
Yeah. But you got it. And it's your re there's like a responsibility and a stewardship of the, and a seriousness of the profession and the role and the, and the it's like sacred in a way. Like, it's a thing. I, I totally, I hear that. Okay.
5 (54m 20s):
I think it's so important. And I think it's so important to give, like, this is like, it's hilarious. Like I don't, unless I can do a certain note, like, unless if I can, if I can't take up a note consistently eight times a week, I won't do it because I don't think it's fair that like, oh, well I can do it like three times a week. So those special three peep, three shows, they get it. And then the other ones get my, like, you know, less than show, like regular show because like they all paid a crap ton of money. So like, for me, I don't know, it's a cuckoo thing. Like I'm not somebody who's like giving you a different vocal show every day, depending on how I feel. I am going to give you the, like, I want
2 (54m 60s):
You give your best all the time. If you're when possible. And when, and if, and you don't mess around with that, you like, don't try to manipulate what people are going to get. And I, you know, I did a solo show, which was the word, like I loved my solo show in New York, but I did a solo show about cancer. And I worked for Nick cage for years. So that's in my solo show. I have like this crazy life. I was a therapist, all the things. So yeah, I've had a crazy life, but the point is I did this solo show and one night there was one ticket sold, okay. One ticket. And I went to my friend and I was like mother fucker. And I said, I don't do I do this show for one person. And she said, listen to me, who are you not to do the show for one person?
2 (55m 40s):
What if that one person needs to hear what you have to say? Who are you not to do the show? And I did it. And I, I did the show and I hope they got something out of it. And I, but, but she just said like, that person needs to hear what you have to say. They, they, they need to, and who are you not to give it to them? If that's your gift to offer, you've got to give it. And I was like, oh, and it changed my sort of my idea of like what it means to be in collaboration with the audience and like it, I was like, oh right. One person matters. That matters, right? Like that matters the one person, even if it's one person that got a discount ticket in Idaho that flew it, they matter to see you in wicked or whatever.
0 (56m 39s):
If you liked what you heard today, please give us a positive five star review and subscribe and tell your friends. I survived. Theater school is an undeniable ink production. Jen Bosworth, Ramirez, and Gina <inaudible> are the co-hosts. This episode was produced, edited and sound mixed by Gina <inaudible> for more information about this podcast or other goings on of undeniable, Inc. Please visit our website@undeniablewriters.com. You can also follow us on Facebook, Instagram, and Twitter. Thank you.