1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:04,410 Doug: So, oftentimes we, as people, we get an opinion, we do something, 2 00:00:04,710 --> 00:00:08,310 but we don't have anything that mitigates or limits our opinion. 3 00:00:16,050 --> 00:00:18,450 Jesse: Ladies and Gentlemen, welcome to the Salty Pastor Podcast, a 4 00:00:18,450 --> 00:00:21,630 podcast dedicated to helping you learn and grow in your faith and 5 00:00:21,630 --> 00:00:23,369 your critical thinking skills. 6 00:00:23,369 --> 00:00:24,689 I am very blessed today. 7 00:00:24,960 --> 00:00:29,759 Um, as the host of the Salty Pastor Podcast, to have both Peakes on the 8 00:00:29,759 --> 00:00:34,589 desk with me today, Zack Peake, and of course the Salty Pastor himself, Dr. 9 00:00:34,589 --> 00:00:35,150 Douglas Peake. 10 00:00:35,150 --> 00:00:38,160 And I am Jesse Maher, your host, and we just want to welcome you to our 11 00:00:38,160 --> 00:00:43,080 podcast, but, um, we have been spending some time, talking about Christmas. 12 00:00:43,110 --> 00:00:44,030 Doug: Yes. 13 00:00:44,060 --> 00:00:44,449 Yes. 14 00:00:44,460 --> 00:00:49,170 And last, uh, Tuesday, you guys did a great job of Luke chapter two chapter 15 00:00:49,170 --> 00:00:54,450 two, reading the Christmas story and, uh, talking about, uh, the birth and 16 00:00:54,450 --> 00:00:57,330 then about the shepherds in their fields. 17 00:00:58,144 --> 00:01:02,675 And I was really, uh, interested in your discussion on how they were afraid, 18 00:01:02,675 --> 00:01:07,235 like how angels would appear and what does it mean to have a fear of God? 19 00:01:07,865 --> 00:01:09,695 Angels are scary. 20 00:01:09,815 --> 00:01:11,315 Zach: They're not the guys in bathrobes 21 00:01:11,315 --> 00:01:11,985 that we usually. 22 00:01:12,695 --> 00:01:12,935 Doug: Yeah. 23 00:01:12,935 --> 00:01:14,945 They're not nine-year-olds bathrooms. 24 00:01:15,245 --> 00:01:15,485 Yeah. 25 00:01:15,515 --> 00:01:16,755 Who stumble over their lines. 26 00:01:17,164 --> 00:01:18,335 Uh, they're pretty scary. 27 00:01:18,335 --> 00:01:18,905 Yes, they are. 28 00:01:18,905 --> 00:01:19,565 They're massive. 29 00:01:19,595 --> 00:01:21,725 But, uh, what's really interesting. 30 00:01:21,725 --> 00:01:27,095 What I thought is your discussion about the fear of the Lord, and 31 00:01:27,095 --> 00:01:28,804 that people have kind of left that. 32 00:01:28,804 --> 00:01:32,794 And that got me thinking today on how, what you guys studied on 33 00:01:32,794 --> 00:01:35,225 Tuesday really applies to our world. 34 00:01:35,585 --> 00:01:39,485 And that is, is that, you know, I talk a lot about postmodernism and 35 00:01:39,485 --> 00:01:43,205 what postmodernism basically says is that there is no absolute truth. 36 00:01:43,205 --> 00:01:44,445 There's no objective truth. 37 00:01:45,095 --> 00:01:51,315 And really that basically means that they have lost any respect or fear of the Lord. 38 00:01:51,675 --> 00:01:55,214 There's nothing objective outside that holds them accountable 39 00:01:55,214 --> 00:01:59,234 so they can just make up their own reality, their own truth. 40 00:01:59,264 --> 00:02:00,824 Have you seen that in your generation? 41 00:02:01,484 --> 00:02:02,085 Jesse: I think so. 42 00:02:02,085 --> 00:02:06,315 I mean, I'm slightly older than Zach, but I mean, at least for me, it's 43 00:02:06,315 --> 00:02:08,354 everybody wants to give their own. 44 00:02:09,465 --> 00:02:11,235 It's like, we can just do whatever we want. 45 00:02:11,235 --> 00:02:13,875 Like the more and more the culture evolves towards this, 46 00:02:13,905 --> 00:02:15,555 whatever you believe is true. 47 00:02:15,945 --> 00:02:20,835 If you don't believe there's anything scary or you rely on the government or 48 00:02:20,835 --> 00:02:22,065 immediate to tell you, what's scary. 49 00:02:22,065 --> 00:02:24,015 I think that's where most of our fear comes these days. 50 00:02:24,015 --> 00:02:27,015 It's not like an innate moral sensibility of like 51 00:02:27,605 --> 00:02:31,980 we should be fearful of this wonderful, amazing God that could smite us if 52 00:02:31,980 --> 00:02:33,690 he wanted to, but loves us instead. 53 00:02:33,690 --> 00:02:38,280 It's instead you should be afraid of this thing this week and this thing 54 00:02:38,280 --> 00:02:41,430 this week and saying this thing, cause you might delete to this thing. 55 00:02:41,430 --> 00:02:43,530 Like I think that's where a lot of the fear comes from it. 56 00:02:43,540 --> 00:02:48,525 My generation, as opposed to like kind of a mortality slash, understanding of who 57 00:02:48,525 --> 00:02:50,505 God is and what he's doing in our life. 58 00:02:50,715 --> 00:02:55,245 Doug: Then you, you point out a perfect example of what postmodernism produces. 59 00:02:55,245 --> 00:02:58,635 And that is, if there is no objective truth, then we don't 60 00:02:58,635 --> 00:03:00,465 know what to be afraid of. 61 00:03:00,495 --> 00:03:04,845 And if you don't know what to fear, you end up fearing everything. 62 00:03:05,325 --> 00:03:06,045 Jesse: What about you, Zach? 63 00:03:06,045 --> 00:03:07,395 Are you seeing similar stuff? 64 00:03:07,425 --> 00:03:10,515 Zach: I think that, um, I won't limit just this specific 65 00:03:10,515 --> 00:03:11,895 generation too much, I think. 66 00:03:11,895 --> 00:03:12,345 Yes. 67 00:03:12,375 --> 00:03:16,725 It's very prevalent in this one, but I think that if we look back that, 68 00:03:17,235 --> 00:03:22,679 you know, uh, a belief in an objective reality, Uh, you know, human rights 69 00:03:22,739 --> 00:03:26,549 and thinking about others, you know, in selflessness is a very unique thing, 70 00:03:27,089 --> 00:03:31,290 you know, throughout all history started with Jesus really, and then only, 71 00:03:31,290 --> 00:03:34,769 you know, countries that were heavily influenced by him and his followers 72 00:03:35,130 --> 00:03:36,640 have ever had any semblance of that. 73 00:03:37,079 --> 00:03:39,355 So I don't think its isolated to this generation. 74 00:03:39,355 --> 00:03:42,295 I think what's unique about this generation is that our country 75 00:03:42,325 --> 00:03:44,515 and our culture is slowly been heading more and more this way. 76 00:03:44,935 --> 00:03:46,495 What it really is, is an arrogance. 77 00:03:46,765 --> 00:03:48,834 It's an arrogance that if you don't believe there's an objective 78 00:03:48,834 --> 00:03:51,095 reality and you believe you can think whatever you want. 79 00:03:51,405 --> 00:03:55,545 That's incredibly arrogant, and all arrogance is rooted in insecurity. 80 00:03:55,635 --> 00:03:57,075 And that's why we see so much fear. 81 00:03:57,494 --> 00:04:00,255 Is because arrogance and insecurity go hand in hand. 82 00:04:00,345 --> 00:04:00,435 Okay. 83 00:04:01,125 --> 00:04:05,834 Jesse: Well, and the ability for that fear to be propagated is so 84 00:04:05,834 --> 00:04:08,894 much easier these days, despite what generation you are, right? 85 00:04:09,195 --> 00:04:10,394 The internet thing of that. 86 00:04:10,925 --> 00:04:12,155 Zach: That is very unique. 87 00:04:12,215 --> 00:04:14,045 Uh, you know, in some ways we'll, it's funny. 88 00:04:14,045 --> 00:04:17,015 Cause sometimes people will admit things about, you know, my generation 89 00:04:17,345 --> 00:04:19,835 and I think that I'm like, well, that's happened a lot of times before, so it's 90 00:04:19,835 --> 00:04:21,395 not just our gender still a problem. 91 00:04:21,395 --> 00:04:22,344 It's not just our generation. 92 00:04:22,414 --> 00:04:22,775 That's true. 93 00:04:22,805 --> 00:04:25,625 But I do think that the internet and especially things like 94 00:04:25,625 --> 00:04:31,290 Twitter, just increase the velocity of change so quickly. 95 00:04:31,320 --> 00:04:35,250 Like I w I'd kind of wonder like in the ancient world, you know, or even just 96 00:04:35,250 --> 00:04:38,820 a thousand years ago, like if you were scared of, you know, if there was a fear, 97 00:04:38,820 --> 00:04:41,760 even whether it was founded or unfounded, whether it was of the Lord or of something 98 00:04:41,760 --> 00:04:45,960 else, like an entire village or society could be afraid of something of the 99 00:04:45,960 --> 00:04:47,700 same thing for, you know, generations. 100 00:04:48,060 --> 00:04:50,120 And now there's a new thing every week on twitter. 101 00:04:50,219 --> 00:04:51,049 And the trending thing. 102 00:04:51,109 --> 00:04:54,710 And like, I, I enjoy Twitter sometimes, and I don't think that Twitter on 103 00:04:54,710 --> 00:04:58,039 its own is this evil thing, but I think it definitely increases 104 00:04:58,039 --> 00:04:59,330 the velocity of what happens. 105 00:04:59,570 --> 00:05:02,450 There's a new thing every week to be worried about. 106 00:05:02,450 --> 00:05:04,250 Jesse: And the rate at which it can be propagated. 107 00:05:04,250 --> 00:05:09,859 So let's say, you know, uh, uh, culture is afraid of the God in the volcano, right? 108 00:05:09,859 --> 00:05:11,960 Like we, we don't want to make the volcano angry. 109 00:05:11,960 --> 00:05:12,169 Right. 110 00:05:12,945 --> 00:05:17,414 It could take a long time for that fear to like spread out just because the way 111 00:05:17,414 --> 00:05:19,245 information traveled back then was slower. 112 00:05:19,245 --> 00:05:21,435 It's like, yeah, look, I might wander to another village and be like, 113 00:05:21,435 --> 00:05:24,284 Hey, back in my own village, we have this God that rests in the mountain. 114 00:05:24,284 --> 00:05:26,115 And sometimes he gets angry and blows things up. 115 00:05:26,115 --> 00:05:26,385 Right. 116 00:05:26,715 --> 00:05:31,515 Like, yeah, that would be a thing, but it would be a slower process of spreading 117 00:05:31,515 --> 00:05:33,375 out, especially across the world. 118 00:05:33,375 --> 00:05:34,724 Like most of it would die or. 119 00:05:35,670 --> 00:05:39,090 Argued against before then, but now it's like, you can type in 120 00:05:39,210 --> 00:05:42,960 three seconds, 48 characters and send it out into the entire world. 121 00:05:42,960 --> 00:05:46,590 And it may get picked up by some random media person. 122 00:05:46,590 --> 00:05:48,780 And then suddenly it's the news of the day, right? 123 00:05:48,840 --> 00:05:49,170 Yeah. 124 00:05:49,380 --> 00:05:50,340 Zach: Well, it was viral. 125 00:05:50,340 --> 00:05:54,360 It just expands the entire world almost instantaneously with it. 126 00:05:54,360 --> 00:06:00,205 Doug: I think those, those, uh, Those modem, modalities require rapidity. 127 00:06:00,475 --> 00:06:03,265 When you live, like you said something earlier, uh, it's so 128 00:06:03,265 --> 00:06:07,135 much easier for people to be afraid today than before, which is odd. 129 00:06:07,135 --> 00:06:11,305 When we live in such an affluent and advanced society, we 130 00:06:11,305 --> 00:06:13,315 should have less fear and safe. 131 00:06:13,315 --> 00:06:16,225 We should have less things to be afraid of, but what's really amazing is 132 00:06:16,225 --> 00:06:19,735 that's because people don't know what they believe or why they believe it. 133 00:06:20,245 --> 00:06:25,784 And so with RA, with the shallowness, It requires rapidity. 134 00:06:26,145 --> 00:06:30,734 Uh, some people may not be familiar with this, but, uh, here in Idaho, 135 00:06:30,734 --> 00:06:34,484 river boating is a big deal, especially, uh, through rapids and stuff. 136 00:06:34,484 --> 00:06:35,805 And I don't mean whitewater rafting. 137 00:06:35,805 --> 00:06:38,685 What I mean is river boating and these boats are made out of aluminum. 138 00:06:38,685 --> 00:06:42,555 They're welded together and they put jet thrust engines in them. 139 00:06:42,914 --> 00:06:49,815 And so they can, uh, basically cruise up rivers in water. 140 00:06:49,844 --> 00:06:54,344 That's just 18 inches deep at times, you know, because, but in 141 00:06:54,344 --> 00:06:57,825 order to do that, the boat has to travel at a high rate of speed. 142 00:06:58,770 --> 00:07:02,280 If the boat slows down, it'll settle into the water and it can 143 00:07:02,280 --> 00:07:04,470 settle down 20 inches into water. 144 00:07:04,740 --> 00:07:09,990 But when it's cruising over the water, it displaces maybe two inches of water. 145 00:07:10,050 --> 00:07:11,460 Cause it's just, you know, zooming along. 146 00:07:11,460 --> 00:07:14,250 So these guys, they get in these things and then they just go 147 00:07:14,250 --> 00:07:16,110 flying up these river rapids. 148 00:07:16,110 --> 00:07:18,270 It's just really crazy what they do. 149 00:07:18,600 --> 00:07:19,740 Well in the same way. 150 00:07:20,640 --> 00:07:26,190 This stuff that's being propagated requires rapidity in order to maintain 151 00:07:26,190 --> 00:07:29,310 its shallowness, and then people will end up believing anything. 152 00:07:29,310 --> 00:07:32,969 Like just case in point this week, I was reading articles about Christmas. 153 00:07:34,455 --> 00:07:40,784 Here in Idaho, we have a bunch of local web based type of media outlets that 154 00:07:40,784 --> 00:07:43,724 run in tandem with the Idaho statesman. 155 00:07:44,235 --> 00:07:48,405 And there they produce these things called conversations and they all pick it up. 156 00:07:48,405 --> 00:07:51,615 It's like kind of like a news story released on the AP, but they'll 157 00:07:51,615 --> 00:07:53,025 pick it up and they'll propagate it. 158 00:07:53,175 --> 00:07:57,555 And I think this is one of the things that bothers people about the news media. 159 00:07:58,409 --> 00:08:02,969 And how and why people call it fake news because this guy, he's Thomas Adam 160 00:08:02,969 --> 00:08:05,880 from the university of Arkansas, and he just wrote this little Christmas story. 161 00:08:05,880 --> 00:08:06,180 Right. 162 00:08:06,180 --> 00:08:10,270 And it's titled how Christmas became an American holiday tradition with 163 00:08:10,270 --> 00:08:16,740 the Santa Claus Gibson tree published by the Idaho press on December 6th. 164 00:08:17,010 --> 00:08:23,095 And it's really interesting because in it, he says, Uh, the whole idea 165 00:08:23,095 --> 00:08:28,645 of Christmas trees, uh, in your house came to America through German 166 00:08:28,645 --> 00:08:30,565 immigrants in the 18 hundreds. 167 00:08:30,805 --> 00:08:35,184 And then he said the idea of putting a candle on an evergreen was inspired 168 00:08:35,184 --> 00:08:40,225 by the pagan tradition of celebrating the winter solstice with bonfires on 169 00:08:40,225 --> 00:08:45,115 December 21st, these bonfires on the darkest day of the year were intended to 170 00:08:45,115 --> 00:08:47,805 recall the sun and show her the way home. 171 00:08:48,324 --> 00:08:51,165 The Christmas tree was essentially a domesticated version 172 00:08:52,005 --> 00:08:53,595 of these bonfires. 173 00:08:53,835 --> 00:08:57,075 And the reference that they're making was a pagan tradition 174 00:08:57,075 --> 00:08:58,605 in Rome called Saturnalia. 175 00:08:59,055 --> 00:09:03,675 And what he's saying is patently, unequivocally, false. 176 00:09:03,975 --> 00:09:05,805 And it's historically proven false. 177 00:09:06,075 --> 00:09:09,825 And what happens is we have people who write this stuff, people who 178 00:09:09,825 --> 00:09:14,025 read this stuff and they become more shallow in their belief because 179 00:09:14,055 --> 00:09:16,125 it's built on a house of cards. 180 00:09:16,155 --> 00:09:17,325 It's a falsehood. 181 00:09:17,755 --> 00:09:22,375 Because all you have to do is take five minutes in or not even that. 182 00:09:22,375 --> 00:09:23,395 And just Google. 183 00:09:23,545 --> 00:09:25,495 Well, where did Christmas trees come to? 184 00:09:25,495 --> 00:09:27,295 You go to history.com. 185 00:09:27,535 --> 00:09:31,885 You can go to history today.com and everybody says the same thing. 186 00:09:31,885 --> 00:09:37,405 And that is, is that the whole notion of li lit candles on Christmas trees 187 00:09:37,405 --> 00:09:43,915 was started in the 15 hundreds by Martin Luther, the religious reformer. 188 00:09:44,395 --> 00:09:45,565 And he was walking home, 189 00:09:46,545 --> 00:09:51,945 one night, and he was seeing the glory of the twinkling skies and he went 190 00:09:51,945 --> 00:09:56,145 in and he says, you know, we need to put candles on our tree and we want 191 00:09:56,145 --> 00:09:58,395 to celebrate the birth of Christ. 192 00:09:58,725 --> 00:10:02,745 You know, that it was, you know, the shepherds all the night and 193 00:10:02,745 --> 00:10:04,725 then the Wiseman followed the star. 194 00:10:04,725 --> 00:10:07,545 And that's why most Christmas trees have on the top of them. 195 00:10:07,545 --> 00:10:07,785 What? 196 00:10:07,785 --> 00:10:08,865 A giant star. 197 00:10:09,600 --> 00:10:14,880 You know, and so, but what's interesting is that what postmodernism does 198 00:10:14,880 --> 00:10:17,640 and what a secularist try to do. 199 00:10:17,880 --> 00:10:21,150 And these are people that I think at their core, have a 200 00:10:21,150 --> 00:10:23,850 conviction that absolute truth. 201 00:10:24,795 --> 00:10:26,235 Eh, they're skeptical of it. 202 00:10:26,265 --> 00:10:27,255 They reject it. 203 00:10:27,705 --> 00:10:32,385 And, but the problem is they never become skeptical of their own skepticism. 204 00:10:32,625 --> 00:10:36,495 They never take any accountability for what they produce and what 205 00:10:36,495 --> 00:10:42,015 they produce is people who are fearful of everything and anything. 206 00:10:42,285 --> 00:10:44,985 And when people become fearful, they become fascist. 207 00:10:45,465 --> 00:10:52,890 You know, they want to impose, their belief or conviction without any 208 00:10:52,920 --> 00:10:58,170 scientific fact around their conviction or in any type of historical fact around 209 00:10:58,170 --> 00:11:00,720 their thing or any data fact around it. 210 00:11:00,960 --> 00:11:03,450 But because they're convinced this is their truth, they 211 00:11:03,450 --> 00:11:05,910 want to impose it on you. 212 00:11:06,180 --> 00:11:08,790 This, it started out with religious types of things. 213 00:11:08,970 --> 00:11:12,450 And now we're seeing this, uh, scientifically the things that 214 00:11:12,450 --> 00:11:17,220 people want to impose on our nation in order to deal with a pandemic. 215 00:11:17,460 --> 00:11:19,410 I mean, it's really fascinating. 216 00:11:19,560 --> 00:11:21,180 It's, it's one thing to say. 217 00:11:21,480 --> 00:11:29,070 You have the freedom to pursue any type of prophylactic or therapeutic or whatever, 218 00:11:29,340 --> 00:11:30,750 depending upon your healthcare needs. 219 00:11:31,665 --> 00:11:38,084 But what's happening today is this overwhelming desire to impose 220 00:11:38,354 --> 00:11:43,785 therapeutics, impose prophylactics, pro impro, impose all of these things 221 00:11:43,785 --> 00:11:46,305 upon people against their will. 222 00:11:46,935 --> 00:11:51,194 Which that, that only results from a society that has become too 223 00:11:51,194 --> 00:11:53,074 post-modern and its orientation. 224 00:11:54,360 --> 00:11:57,210 Jesse: So, what you're saying is you're really for what this guy 225 00:11:57,210 --> 00:12:00,810 wrote is what I'm hearing and your, oh, you heard right Zach. 226 00:12:01,620 --> 00:12:03,990 So maybe I missed the plane, but 227 00:12:04,380 --> 00:12:09,540 Doug: I just think when people publish this ridiculous tripe, it just 228 00:12:09,540 --> 00:12:11,070 hurts people more than we realize. 229 00:12:12,000 --> 00:12:16,470 Jesse: Well, and I think we see this more and more where there is 230 00:12:16,470 --> 00:12:21,330 a sense of like distrust in the media, but if it's written, we have. 231 00:12:23,025 --> 00:12:24,314 What we were taught in school. 232 00:12:24,314 --> 00:12:28,185 At least what I was taught was in order for someone to publish something in 233 00:12:28,185 --> 00:12:33,104 a newspaper and asked to be sourced in, like it's supposed to be sourced 234 00:12:33,104 --> 00:12:34,844 and like, fact checked, right. 235 00:12:35,064 --> 00:12:38,295 Like, but that was what we were told growing up. 236 00:12:38,295 --> 00:12:41,354 So people who are not going well, maybe. 237 00:12:41,965 --> 00:12:44,185 What we were told is not always true. 238 00:12:44,485 --> 00:12:47,485 We'll just assume that, oh, well it was written in the paper. 239 00:12:47,545 --> 00:12:49,705 Therefore the main must have done the research, so I don't 240 00:12:49,705 --> 00:12:50,695 need to do the research. 241 00:12:50,725 --> 00:12:52,735 Therefore it's probably accurate. 242 00:12:52,765 --> 00:12:52,945 Yeah. 243 00:12:52,945 --> 00:12:55,225 Doug: And it's not, I mean, like another thing he says here that is 244 00:12:55,225 --> 00:12:59,785 really interesting, as he says that the notion of Santa Claus was created 245 00:13:00,085 --> 00:13:05,125 and it first appeared on the front page of the union army in 1862. 246 00:13:05,925 --> 00:13:10,785 Uh, and well, it was, it was published in Harper's weekly in it. 247 00:13:10,815 --> 00:13:16,815 What it had is it had in 1862, an image of Santa Claus visiting the union army. 248 00:13:16,845 --> 00:13:17,235 Right. 249 00:13:17,475 --> 00:13:19,305 And so he was saying that's when it was created. 250 00:13:19,605 --> 00:13:23,535 Well, I could, you could make an argument that the image, you know, of. 251 00:13:24,125 --> 00:13:30,215 A fat guy in a red suit and stuff, but it's factual history that the whole 252 00:13:30,215 --> 00:13:35,705 notion of Santa Claus, Saint Nick was based on a fourth century monk known 253 00:13:35,705 --> 00:13:40,955 as Saint Nicholas, who lived in Myrna, which is on the coast of Western Turkey. 254 00:13:41,375 --> 00:13:43,055 And he was a priest. 255 00:13:43,385 --> 00:13:50,435 And what he would do is he found girls that were from poor families, uh, that, 256 00:13:50,435 --> 00:13:57,005 uh, were unable to pay a dowery or unable to cause they had inverted it then. 257 00:13:57,365 --> 00:14:01,145 And, and so what happened the whole concept of doubt, where you can go on 258 00:14:01,145 --> 00:14:05,765 that if you'd like to discuss a little bit, but these girls couldn't get married 259 00:14:05,765 --> 00:14:07,055 because they didn't have any dowery. 260 00:14:07,595 --> 00:14:12,359 And so what he would do is he took money that he got, and then he would go in 261 00:14:12,359 --> 00:14:16,079 the middle of the night and he would give them a dowry coin, you know, that 262 00:14:16,079 --> 00:14:17,729 was enough for them to get married. 263 00:14:18,180 --> 00:14:20,160 And so that was a really big deal. 264 00:14:20,370 --> 00:14:22,890 And so it was a giving of gifts and he would do it at this 265 00:14:22,890 --> 00:14:24,390 certain time during the year. 266 00:14:24,839 --> 00:14:26,760 And that's the whole notion. 267 00:14:26,760 --> 00:14:30,839 That's why we call Santa Claus Saint Nick, because he's based the legend 268 00:14:30,839 --> 00:14:33,510 of sin on this actual character. 269 00:14:34,275 --> 00:14:34,665 Right. 270 00:14:34,965 --> 00:14:41,955 So I think, I think when, when people don't know their history, then what 271 00:14:41,955 --> 00:14:45,675 happens is you end up believing anything. 272 00:14:45,705 --> 00:14:49,605 And then when you believe anything, you become afraid of everything. 273 00:14:49,665 --> 00:14:54,765 And I really, I really appreciate how you guys talked about, you know, that these 274 00:14:54,765 --> 00:14:56,205 things that happened were remarkable. 275 00:14:56,205 --> 00:14:59,235 They created fear in people, but not in a bad way. 276 00:14:59,235 --> 00:15:01,365 You know, Zach talked about how fear can be a good thing. 277 00:15:01,365 --> 00:15:04,785 Zach: And I think it's important to recognize that there's kind 278 00:15:04,785 --> 00:15:06,765 of two different types of fear. 279 00:15:06,795 --> 00:15:10,515 There's fears that are rational and fears that are, you know, accurate. 280 00:15:11,025 --> 00:15:12,994 I've always been a little bit afraid of Heights. 281 00:15:13,055 --> 00:15:15,275 Doug: I can't imagine why 282 00:15:15,655 --> 00:15:17,235 Jesse: You guys are some of the tallest people? 283 00:15:17,235 --> 00:15:17,625 I know. 284 00:15:17,625 --> 00:15:19,305 Why are you afraid of heights. 285 00:15:19,305 --> 00:15:20,175 Zach: I don't think six 286 00:15:20,175 --> 00:15:23,835 inches matters when you're looking over a cliff, but maybe that's just me, but 287 00:15:23,835 --> 00:15:27,375 yeah, like, you know, if you're, if you're standing over 100 foot cliff 288 00:15:27,375 --> 00:15:28,515 and you're a little bit nervous that. 289 00:15:29,370 --> 00:15:30,750 Probably pretty rational. 290 00:15:30,780 --> 00:15:31,560 That's pretty accurate. 291 00:15:31,560 --> 00:15:33,750 That's not necessarily a bad fear. 292 00:15:33,750 --> 00:15:35,910 That's a fear of founded on facts, 293 00:15:35,910 --> 00:15:38,949 Jesse: You have a respect for gravity. 294 00:15:38,949 --> 00:15:40,780 I have a respect for electricity. 295 00:15:40,780 --> 00:15:41,979 Its not that I'm afraid of it. 296 00:15:41,979 --> 00:15:44,140 I just have a healthy understanding of what it can do. 297 00:15:44,140 --> 00:15:44,229 Zach: But 298 00:15:44,229 --> 00:15:48,120 what's really interesting about you bringing up that healthy respect is I 299 00:15:48,120 --> 00:15:50,850 remember when I was younger in Sunday school and we talked about how in the 300 00:15:50,850 --> 00:15:53,700 Old Testament we'd do Bible stories and we'll talk about the fear of the Lord. 301 00:15:54,060 --> 00:15:56,250 And that's the number one way they tried to make a sense. 302 00:15:56,250 --> 00:15:57,270 We were like as little kids. 303 00:15:57,270 --> 00:15:58,939 Why are people scared of God? 304 00:15:58,939 --> 00:16:02,280 It's like, well, they're not, it's, it's a healthy respect and that's a 305 00:16:02,280 --> 00:16:06,030 great way to put it is that's what this fear is of angels in the Lord. 306 00:16:06,030 --> 00:16:11,230 It's a healthy respect of knowing that is very powerful that I am very small. 307 00:16:11,880 --> 00:16:12,330 Jesse: Yes. 308 00:16:12,420 --> 00:16:15,000 I have a very healthy respect for large 309 00:16:15,000 --> 00:16:15,950 wild life. 310 00:16:16,610 --> 00:16:19,290 Zach: But those are fears that are based on reality. 311 00:16:21,030 --> 00:16:24,930 But what we see now, besides a little phone call. 312 00:16:25,080 --> 00:16:25,290 Thanks. 313 00:16:25,290 --> 00:16:25,620 Sorry. 314 00:16:26,430 --> 00:16:31,320 Um, is fears that are based on insecurity and untruth. 315 00:16:31,600 --> 00:16:34,860 There are fears that are based on lies, your fears that are based on 316 00:16:34,860 --> 00:16:37,380 things that are purely emotional. 317 00:16:37,740 --> 00:16:40,770 You know, emotions can help us in a lot of ways, but if we're basically. 318 00:16:41,595 --> 00:16:42,825 Things purely on emotions. 319 00:16:42,825 --> 00:16:45,255 Just like if you're facing things purely on science or anything 320 00:16:45,255 --> 00:16:46,575 else you're going to go wrong. 321 00:16:47,175 --> 00:16:48,675 Fears are purely emotional. 322 00:16:49,095 --> 00:16:52,095 They're purely based on how people are feeling or what they're scared of 323 00:16:52,095 --> 00:16:55,515 in the moment and everything because of our society and the postmodernism 324 00:16:55,515 --> 00:16:59,205 and the arrogance, all of our fears now are based on insecurity. 325 00:16:59,775 --> 00:17:01,245 That's not founded on reality. 326 00:17:01,335 --> 00:17:02,445 That's not founded on truth. 327 00:17:02,475 --> 00:17:07,215 That's not a healthy respect for something that is an emotional 328 00:17:07,215 --> 00:17:09,105 response that people are giving into. 329 00:17:10,125 --> 00:17:12,225 Doug: Yeah, well, and I think that that's really important. 330 00:17:12,225 --> 00:17:18,405 I read a book a long time ago called, uh, uh, uh, it's called following the 331 00:17:18,495 --> 00:17:22,965 called Follow Me, uh, experiencing the loving leadership of Jesus and is 332 00:17:22,965 --> 00:17:24,815 written by a pastor he's retired now. 333 00:17:25,225 --> 00:17:28,335 Uh, oh quite a while ago, his name was Jan Hettinga. 334 00:17:28,755 --> 00:17:31,875 And kind of the Bothell kind of the Puget sound area. 335 00:17:32,325 --> 00:17:35,385 And he wrote this book and I read this book and it was really, really fascinated 336 00:17:35,385 --> 00:17:41,565 because fascinating to me, because he said that in our society, we are 337 00:17:41,565 --> 00:17:43,785 skeptical of any and all of authority. 338 00:17:44,325 --> 00:17:48,585 We reject all authority, you know, the rebel kind of attitude. 339 00:17:48,945 --> 00:17:53,085 He said, but what that does is that exacerbates fear in a person. 340 00:17:53,685 --> 00:17:58,560 And he said, if you want to be a secure person, How, how do you, and he 341 00:17:58,560 --> 00:18:00,570 said, how do you overcome your fears? 342 00:18:00,990 --> 00:18:01,320 Right? 343 00:18:01,500 --> 00:18:03,390 He says, well, you have a greater fear. 344 00:18:05,130 --> 00:18:05,940 That's how you do it. 345 00:18:05,940 --> 00:18:12,450 And he said, when you fear, God, He said that gives you the clarity, the focus, the 346 00:18:12,450 --> 00:18:15,510 strength to overcome any and every fear. 347 00:18:16,050 --> 00:18:23,250 And what it does is it gives us a, uh, it gives us a limiting factor in our lives. 348 00:18:23,250 --> 00:18:27,660 So oftentimes we, as people, we get an opinion, we do something, 349 00:18:27,960 --> 00:18:31,560 but we don't have anything that mitigates or limits our opinion. 350 00:18:31,740 --> 00:18:32,190 Right. 351 00:18:32,550 --> 00:18:33,150 And that is the. 352 00:18:34,275 --> 00:18:36,945 Uh, here's how this, the logical syllogism works. 353 00:18:36,945 --> 00:18:40,725 And that is, is that there is a God, you're not him. 354 00:18:41,325 --> 00:18:46,815 Number two, you are going to be held accountable for your life and your 355 00:18:46,815 --> 00:18:48,515 choices because you have free will. 356 00:18:49,205 --> 00:18:54,180 Number three, this God came in the form of Jesus to die on the cross, 357 00:18:54,180 --> 00:18:58,230 to save you from your sins and to redeem you and give you a new life. 358 00:18:58,440 --> 00:18:58,860 Okay. 359 00:18:58,889 --> 00:18:59,580 That's awesome. 360 00:18:59,850 --> 00:19:02,070 I'll say so then some people think, okay, well then let's 361 00:19:02,070 --> 00:19:03,720 make everybody believe in Jesus. 362 00:19:04,440 --> 00:19:05,250 Because it's so much better. 363 00:19:05,250 --> 00:19:07,830 And you're like, wait, there's a limiting principle there. 364 00:19:07,830 --> 00:19:11,880 And that is, you're accountable for your sins because you have free will. 365 00:19:12,180 --> 00:19:15,800 Therefore we believe in the doctrine of non-corrosion and 366 00:19:15,800 --> 00:19:17,400 that is we'll make the case. 367 00:19:17,520 --> 00:19:18,750 We'll plead the case. 368 00:19:18,840 --> 00:19:22,620 We'll prosecute the case, but in the end, everybody has to be given the 369 00:19:22,620 --> 00:19:25,860 freedom to make their own choice. 370 00:19:25,890 --> 00:19:28,350 You can't force a person to fall in love. 371 00:19:29,130 --> 00:19:29,490 Right? 372 00:19:29,640 --> 00:19:33,510 So what we have to do is we can create opportunities to learn 373 00:19:33,510 --> 00:19:35,640 and experience we can share. 374 00:19:35,640 --> 00:19:36,870 We can proselytize. 375 00:19:36,870 --> 00:19:37,830 We can evangelize. 376 00:19:38,115 --> 00:19:41,025 But in the end it's everyone's own choice, right? 377 00:19:41,565 --> 00:19:43,335 So that's called a limiting principle. 378 00:19:43,665 --> 00:19:48,915 Well, if, if you don't have a greater fear and if you don't have an objective 379 00:19:48,915 --> 00:19:54,105 reality or objective truth, then some, even some of your lesser fears, 380 00:19:54,135 --> 00:20:00,425 then you want to impose with no limiting principle on everybody else. 381 00:20:00,995 --> 00:20:01,054 Yeah. 382 00:20:01,435 --> 00:20:02,370 And that's a problem. 383 00:20:03,030 --> 00:20:03,240 Jesse: Yeah. 384 00:20:03,270 --> 00:20:06,060 Cause then it just spirals out of control spirals out of control. 385 00:20:06,060 --> 00:20:06,330 Yeah. 386 00:20:06,990 --> 00:20:08,820 Like you said, there's no end to it. 387 00:20:08,850 --> 00:20:09,690 There's no like, 388 00:20:10,020 --> 00:20:11,820 Doug: Well then communism is a perfect example. 389 00:20:11,820 --> 00:20:17,070 There's a story of a man who, uh, there was, uh, a leader under Stalin. 390 00:20:17,430 --> 00:20:23,370 Uh, it wasn't himself, but his daughter did a piano concerto, like a piano thing. 391 00:20:23,640 --> 00:20:25,020 And she came out and played the piano. 392 00:20:25,020 --> 00:20:27,990 And so the people stood up and started clapping and everybody 393 00:20:27,990 --> 00:20:29,400 was afraid to stop clapping. 394 00:20:30,255 --> 00:20:32,355 You know, and then it just went on and on and on. 395 00:20:32,355 --> 00:20:35,325 I mean, it was absurd when for half an hour people were, and 396 00:20:35,325 --> 00:20:40,155 then finally one person just said like, this is so, so stupid. 397 00:20:40,455 --> 00:20:41,955 So he stopped clapping. 398 00:20:43,185 --> 00:20:45,105 They arrested him and sent him to a Gulag. 399 00:20:46,245 --> 00:20:47,985 See, that's how ridiculous it gets. 400 00:20:47,985 --> 00:20:52,185 After 45 minutes of clapping for a little girl's piano recital. 401 00:20:52,185 --> 00:20:52,995 That's a little, nutty. 402 00:20:53,760 --> 00:20:56,490 Do you see that's what happens in postmodernism and that's what's 403 00:20:56,490 --> 00:21:01,020 happening in our society today is that people want to get elected to office 404 00:21:01,020 --> 00:21:02,850 for one reason, one reason only. 405 00:21:02,850 --> 00:21:06,180 And that is, I want to impose my vision and my values on everybody 406 00:21:06,180 --> 00:21:07,560 else, as quickly as possible. 407 00:21:08,880 --> 00:21:10,320 It's a power play it's power play. 408 00:21:10,350 --> 00:21:13,380 It's a hundred percent powerful in a way that's going to tear America apart because 409 00:21:13,380 --> 00:21:16,170 America was not designed for that purpose. 410 00:21:16,500 --> 00:21:19,350 America was designed for the purpose of how do you get 411 00:21:19,350 --> 00:21:21,540 people with all these different, 412 00:21:22,304 --> 00:21:27,524 belief systems and values and stuff, to get along and be at peace, solve 413 00:21:27,524 --> 00:21:32,655 political conflict, peacefully have peaceful transitions of power. 414 00:21:33,014 --> 00:21:36,764 And, and you do that by limiting the power of the people in 415 00:21:36,764 --> 00:21:38,054 charge as much as possible. 416 00:21:38,574 --> 00:21:39,405 Who you serve? 417 00:21:39,405 --> 00:21:40,965 Jesse: They're supposed to be balancing each other. 418 00:21:40,995 --> 00:21:43,215 They balanced Akili with the two party system. 419 00:21:43,215 --> 00:21:43,995 It was supposed to be. 420 00:21:44,910 --> 00:21:47,100 Checks and balances checks in the system, right? 421 00:21:47,190 --> 00:21:47,400 Doug: Yeah. 422 00:21:47,430 --> 00:21:51,450 But now it's starting to try to get around that. 423 00:21:51,450 --> 00:21:53,130 And that's what I find fascinating. 424 00:21:53,130 --> 00:21:55,170 Is it in the end, I don't think that's going to be 425 00:21:55,170 --> 00:21:56,940 healthy for anybody in America. 426 00:21:57,000 --> 00:21:57,300 Jesse: Right. 427 00:21:59,250 --> 00:22:05,700 I wonder as we, as we kind of talk about these, this treating like people 428 00:22:05,700 --> 00:22:09,000 that understand who God is and have a healthier spectrum, as we talked 429 00:22:09,000 --> 00:22:13,290 about, they have more confidence and courage in other matters of their life. 430 00:22:13,320 --> 00:22:13,830 They don't let the. 431 00:22:14,670 --> 00:22:19,050 Fears that are being perpetuated, these smaller fears or these unfounded 432 00:22:19,050 --> 00:22:20,280 fears kind of rule their life. 433 00:22:20,310 --> 00:22:22,830 We see this a lot with, I mean, we all love movies. 434 00:22:22,830 --> 00:22:24,150 We talk about them quite a bit. 435 00:22:24,360 --> 00:22:27,990 You see this as a trope in a lot of movies where it's like the main character 436 00:22:27,990 --> 00:22:32,760 has some innate fear that they end up overcoming to save the life of the 437 00:22:32,760 --> 00:22:34,650 love interest or a child or whatever. 438 00:22:34,650 --> 00:22:37,230 And it's like, you can kind of take that same thing. 439 00:22:38,940 --> 00:22:42,900 In your walk with God is once you find something you care about more 440 00:22:43,080 --> 00:22:46,080 than the thing you're afraid of, you're willing to do whatever you 441 00:22:46,080 --> 00:22:48,120 need to, to do it if up to that step. 442 00:22:48,150 --> 00:22:48,390 Right? 443 00:22:48,750 --> 00:22:52,770 And so it's like, if we treat God the way that these main characters treat their 444 00:22:52,770 --> 00:22:54,270 love, interests, children, whatever. 445 00:22:55,010 --> 00:23:00,350 Then there's, it's not that we won't, you know, still have some fear, you know, we 446 00:23:00,350 --> 00:23:04,370 have that, but it gives us this courage. 447 00:23:04,610 --> 00:23:08,270 And we see, we talked about this last week on the podcast is the, Bible's 448 00:23:08,270 --> 00:23:11,210 constantly filled with points in time where God, or an angel or somebody 449 00:23:11,210 --> 00:23:13,790 saying fear, not I am with you. 450 00:23:13,790 --> 00:23:17,660 I go before you, you, you know, I'm going to be with you. 451 00:23:17,660 --> 00:23:21,690 And it's like, when you have that, it's like, Still recognize that 452 00:23:21,690 --> 00:23:24,510 you have fear of it, but it's not going to rule your life instead. 453 00:23:24,510 --> 00:23:27,960 You know, I know somebody bigger, better, stronger than 454 00:23:27,960 --> 00:23:29,370 anything else the world can do. 455 00:23:29,370 --> 00:23:31,200 And he's going before me to take care of it. 456 00:23:31,920 --> 00:23:32,220 Doug: Yeah. 457 00:23:32,220 --> 00:23:36,390 And I think that it has a lot to do with the greatest fear of 458 00:23:36,390 --> 00:23:37,950 all, which is the fear of death. 459 00:23:38,580 --> 00:23:44,010 You know, and, uh, you know, as a pastor over the last 34, 35 years, I've spent, 460 00:23:44,040 --> 00:23:47,400 you know, the last few moments w uh, with a lot of people who have passed away. 461 00:23:48,360 --> 00:23:53,040 And I can tell ya, it is unmistakably clear. 462 00:23:53,429 --> 00:24:00,060 That people who know God who know Christ, um, are so much more at peace 463 00:24:00,270 --> 00:24:02,879 than people who don't, you know. 464 00:24:03,330 --> 00:24:08,909 And I mean, it's, it's a market difference between the two types of situations. 465 00:24:09,179 --> 00:24:11,760 And I, cause I think people are afraid of death. 466 00:24:11,820 --> 00:24:14,820 They are afraid of being wiped out of existence and. 467 00:24:15,525 --> 00:24:21,285 You know, nativism is the result of, of meaninglessness. 468 00:24:21,315 --> 00:24:26,445 And so the fear of death is, you know, w what brings our lives, meaning, and 469 00:24:26,445 --> 00:24:28,755 now I don't want it to be meaningless. 470 00:24:28,755 --> 00:24:33,525 And so we had this huge fear, and I think that, that corrupts down into every single 471 00:24:33,525 --> 00:24:37,395 area of your life, you know, your response to the pandemic is directly proportional 472 00:24:37,395 --> 00:24:38,985 to how afraid you are of death. 473 00:24:39,665 --> 00:24:42,975 You know, because, and what we're trying to do. 474 00:24:42,975 --> 00:24:46,754 And I think some people are so strongly opinionated about it because what we're 475 00:24:46,754 --> 00:24:49,665 trying to do is a basic human drive. 476 00:24:49,665 --> 00:24:53,024 And that is we're trying to impose control over something we don't have control over. 477 00:24:54,180 --> 00:24:59,580 You know, and that's the thing about an a pneumatic virus and airborne virus 478 00:24:59,790 --> 00:25:05,910 that's traveling around is, is that in the end, there's really, I mean, you can 479 00:25:05,970 --> 00:25:12,510 try to slow it down or you can do other things, but, uh, blaming people and their 480 00:25:12,510 --> 00:25:19,860 behaviors for, you know, that everybody's going to get infected eventually is 481 00:25:19,890 --> 00:25:22,379 like arguing that it's gravity fault. 482 00:25:22,780 --> 00:25:27,690 Yeah, it's gravity is a constant, a virus is going to get everyone eventually. 483 00:25:28,260 --> 00:25:31,770 And there's really nothing we can do about that other than slow it down. 484 00:25:32,460 --> 00:25:35,430 Jesse: Well, I think this is a great example of that exact thing. 485 00:25:35,430 --> 00:25:39,690 When you were talking about where people who know Jesus and how to have. 486 00:25:40,780 --> 00:25:45,990 An interesting response to the pandemic was when, when we first heard about 487 00:25:45,990 --> 00:25:49,470 it, we encourage people to watch from home, but we never closed our doors. 488 00:25:49,470 --> 00:25:51,570 We still had them open if people wanted to be in the building. 489 00:25:51,810 --> 00:25:57,690 And what was interesting was some of the oldest, most at risk people were coming in 490 00:25:57,690 --> 00:26:00,330 to the church to be at church on a Sunday. 491 00:26:00,330 --> 00:26:03,240 And we're like, you're the most like in danger in there. 492 00:26:04,170 --> 00:26:05,610 You know, I survived a war. 493 00:26:06,030 --> 00:26:09,900 If this kills me, it kills me, but it's not going to stop me from spending 494 00:26:09,900 --> 00:26:14,730 time in church and with God and doing what I'm going to do with God. 495 00:26:14,760 --> 00:26:15,000 Yeah. 496 00:26:15,030 --> 00:26:17,040 And so it's like, that was like the most fascinating thing. 497 00:26:17,040 --> 00:26:18,960 It's like the people most at risk, we're the ones that are 498 00:26:18,960 --> 00:26:20,370 like, I'm going to church. 499 00:26:20,370 --> 00:26:23,520 And, If you guys have the doors open, I'm showing up. 500 00:26:23,550 --> 00:26:29,220 And it was just like fascinating because you're the ones we're hiding for. 501 00:26:29,280 --> 00:26:31,710 And it was like, they're like, whatever 502 00:26:31,710 --> 00:26:32,520 happens, happens. 503 00:26:33,210 --> 00:26:33,420 Doug: Yeah. 504 00:26:33,420 --> 00:26:37,080 They, they were well, and it's interesting because they took it seriously. 505 00:26:37,500 --> 00:26:40,110 They knew the dangers, they knew the risk. 506 00:26:40,110 --> 00:26:43,290 It wasn't like they were being ignorant, you know, or Pollyannish about it. 507 00:26:43,290 --> 00:26:46,455 They knew all that, but their faith, right. 508 00:26:46,875 --> 00:26:50,054 Was more powerful than their fear. 509 00:26:50,534 --> 00:26:54,165 And so, you know, I I'm, and I'm not trying to say that people who are taking 510 00:26:54,165 --> 00:26:59,115 extensive measures, you know, to deal with this stuff are acting out of fear. 511 00:26:59,324 --> 00:27:00,314 I'm not saying that at all. 512 00:27:00,314 --> 00:27:04,875 I, I, you know, I fully support people who are getting vaccinated. 513 00:27:04,875 --> 00:27:07,514 I think, especially if you're in a high risk population, I think 514 00:27:07,514 --> 00:27:09,645 it's, um, you know, I've said this on the Salty Pastor before. 515 00:27:09,645 --> 00:27:12,524 I think it's a medical modern day miracle that it's even available. 516 00:27:12,524 --> 00:27:13,434 I think it's awesome. 517 00:27:13,965 --> 00:27:19,545 And, but what I do think is that fear comes in when our choice 518 00:27:19,905 --> 00:27:22,514 has to be everyone else's choice. 519 00:27:23,115 --> 00:27:23,565 You see? 520 00:27:23,745 --> 00:27:25,875 And I've seen that because I've seen some people who are saying, 521 00:27:25,935 --> 00:27:27,344 I'm never going to get vaccinated. 522 00:27:27,344 --> 00:27:27,645 And stuff. 523 00:27:27,645 --> 00:27:29,895 I said, well, that's great for you. 524 00:27:29,895 --> 00:27:34,125 And they say, and everybody else who does is, you know, something. 525 00:27:35,325 --> 00:27:35,655 Yeah. 526 00:27:35,685 --> 00:27:36,495 Okay. 527 00:27:37,005 --> 00:27:39,825 You just went from rational to irrational in the blink of 528 00:27:39,825 --> 00:27:41,625 an eye and then somebody else. 529 00:27:41,865 --> 00:27:43,275 And I just read an article today. 530 00:27:43,275 --> 00:27:45,435 This poor woman lost her husband. 531 00:27:45,735 --> 00:27:49,245 You know, he was fully vaccinated and everything, and it was a breakthrough 532 00:27:49,245 --> 00:27:51,885 case, but he had a lot of comorbidities. 533 00:27:51,885 --> 00:27:55,005 He had all of these health issues, you know, heart disease problems and heart 534 00:27:55,005 --> 00:27:56,115 attacks and all this kind of stuff. 535 00:27:56,505 --> 00:27:58,965 And she said, the only reason my husband is dead is because 536 00:27:58,965 --> 00:28:00,385 people won't get vaccinated. 537 00:28:00,955 --> 00:28:02,775 I'm just like, yeah, I'm sorry. 538 00:28:02,775 --> 00:28:05,145 You lost your husband, but that's totally irrational. 539 00:28:05,385 --> 00:28:06,585 That's totally irrational. 540 00:28:06,855 --> 00:28:12,555 Um, and so I think that's the difficulty is that you see, we go from rational 541 00:28:12,555 --> 00:28:14,205 to irrational in the blink of an eye. 542 00:28:14,415 --> 00:28:19,065 How is it that human Americans have become so shallow and so judgmental because 543 00:28:19,095 --> 00:28:21,765 they've lost their respect for God. 544 00:28:22,095 --> 00:28:23,475 That there's an objective 545 00:28:24,495 --> 00:28:28,784 truth outside of ourselves that holds us accountable. 546 00:28:29,055 --> 00:28:33,135 And because it holds us accountable, then that means every thought, 547 00:28:33,705 --> 00:28:37,965 every action we have to think about, you know what I'm saying? 548 00:28:37,995 --> 00:28:39,585 We have to think about it. 549 00:28:39,615 --> 00:28:41,534 There's a limiting principle there. 550 00:28:41,534 --> 00:28:44,985 And the limiting principle is, there's a God, I'm not him, 551 00:28:45,014 --> 00:28:46,095 I'm not, God. 552 00:28:46,155 --> 00:28:50,445 I, I cannot make choices for everybody else. 553 00:28:50,445 --> 00:28:53,505 And I like the way you said it earlier in that is, is that, 554 00:28:53,895 --> 00:28:56,925 you know, it's just, it's just really arrogant to live that way. 555 00:28:56,955 --> 00:29:01,725 And yet we've become so opinionated and so want to impose our opinion on everybody 556 00:29:01,725 --> 00:29:04,125 else that we're becoming a more arrogant 557 00:29:05,055 --> 00:29:06,765 and shallow society because of it. 558 00:29:07,065 --> 00:29:07,455 Zach: Yeah. 559 00:29:07,515 --> 00:29:10,845 Well, I mean, I don't think it's any surprise when you believe that 560 00:29:11,325 --> 00:29:14,685 there is a God that has created you and he has overall things and 561 00:29:14,685 --> 00:29:18,045 you know him, it's a little bit hard to get too full of yourself. 562 00:29:18,315 --> 00:29:18,645 Yeah. 563 00:29:18,705 --> 00:29:20,505 You know, it's a little bit hard to get too full of yourself 564 00:29:20,505 --> 00:29:21,505 when you read about Jesus. 565 00:29:21,655 --> 00:29:24,905 Oh, yeah well, these a lot better than being a lot of different things. 566 00:29:24,905 --> 00:29:29,465 So I should probably take a back seat, you know, but if you don't have that 567 00:29:29,465 --> 00:29:33,545 and you know, as we talked about with postmodernism, it's all about your reality 568 00:29:33,635 --> 00:29:36,635 and you know, what's the number one thing about post-modern, it's all about you. 569 00:29:36,695 --> 00:29:37,584 It's all about. 570 00:29:37,584 --> 00:29:38,014 Doug: me. 571 00:29:38,975 --> 00:29:39,475 Yeah. 572 00:29:40,514 --> 00:29:42,764 Zach: Uh, how could arrogance not arise from that? 573 00:29:42,764 --> 00:29:42,915 Yeah. 574 00:29:43,185 --> 00:29:46,875 And again, arrogance partners with insecurity because it's not built on 575 00:29:46,875 --> 00:29:50,895 anything real, you know, everyone who builds, you know, the reason why this 576 00:29:50,895 --> 00:29:54,915 guy wrote an article, you know, attacking Christmas tradition and trying to make it 577 00:29:54,915 --> 00:29:59,294 sound like it's not some actual, you know, thing that was founded on grace and love 578 00:29:59,294 --> 00:30:01,475 and gift giving is because he's insecure. 579 00:30:01,754 --> 00:30:02,024 Yeah. 580 00:30:02,235 --> 00:30:06,135 And you know, one of we, we talked about fears and what the great human fear is. 581 00:30:06,195 --> 00:30:10,245 I think in most cases for people whose greatest fear is not God, it's 582 00:30:10,274 --> 00:30:13,725 their greatest respect is not for God and his creation and his reality. 583 00:30:14,594 --> 00:30:18,344 It usually becomes being left behind, being part of the crowd. 584 00:30:18,584 --> 00:30:19,875 And I think that's why we see things 585 00:30:19,875 --> 00:30:22,875 that move so fast and they get so shallow is because everybody just 586 00:30:22,875 --> 00:30:25,725 doesn't want to be the law or the first person to stop clapping. 587 00:30:26,145 --> 00:30:28,334 They don't care if there's nothing objective about. 588 00:30:29,235 --> 00:30:31,245 There's not a single thing objective. 589 00:30:31,275 --> 00:30:34,575 It's purely, I don't want to be the first person to stop, or I don't want to be the 590 00:30:34,575 --> 00:30:37,665 person left behind, or I, you know, I want to be in this group and not that group. 591 00:30:37,905 --> 00:30:40,185 And I don't know what it takes, but I'm just going to kind of hang out 592 00:30:40,185 --> 00:30:43,605 here and that's not built on anything real that's built on insecurity. 593 00:30:44,115 --> 00:30:49,185 And so those partners with arrogance and that's the, what is the world and our 594 00:30:49,185 --> 00:30:51,375 culture is trying to highlight in people. 595 00:30:51,525 --> 00:30:54,195 That's what it's trying to build up more than anything else. 596 00:30:54,735 --> 00:30:56,345 And the way to combat that, 597 00:30:57,275 --> 00:31:02,280 is to have our fear and our respect, you know, those ha pair those together. 598 00:31:02,310 --> 00:31:06,929 When thinking about God, respecting him, knowing him, loving him and accepting 599 00:31:06,929 --> 00:31:12,600 his love also recognizing he is the Supreme authority of the entire universe. 600 00:31:12,600 --> 00:31:13,770 And we're accountable to him. 601 00:31:14,520 --> 00:31:20,189 And pairing that with, you know, our understanding of reality, of truth. 602 00:31:21,585 --> 00:31:23,055 How can you be arrogant in that? 603 00:31:23,115 --> 00:31:25,035 How can you be overly self-confident? 604 00:31:25,065 --> 00:31:29,715 I look at so much of this discourse on COVID and vaccines and, you know, 605 00:31:29,715 --> 00:31:32,745 anything that happens that comes up politically, you know, even non 606 00:31:32,745 --> 00:31:36,135 COVID things, but just like certain rights, whether it be abortion or 607 00:31:36,195 --> 00:31:41,565 taxes or whatever it may be, and just seeing people speak so incredibly, 608 00:31:42,014 --> 00:31:43,935 just engulfed with their own opinion. 609 00:31:44,685 --> 00:31:46,905 It's incredible to me because I look at it and I'm like, well, 610 00:31:46,905 --> 00:31:47,805 I can see how I get there. 611 00:31:47,805 --> 00:31:48,495 I can see I get there. 612 00:31:48,495 --> 00:31:52,005 And I just, I feel like I'm in this space because of my relationship 613 00:31:52,005 --> 00:31:55,245 with Christ of being able to look at somebody and be like, yeah, they think 614 00:31:55,245 --> 00:31:57,765 this, and I can see how they think this, and this is their experience. 615 00:31:57,765 --> 00:31:59,445 And let's work together to make something better. 616 00:31:59,775 --> 00:32:02,415 You know, because I know that I am not the center of the universe. 617 00:32:02,565 --> 00:32:02,895 Right. 618 00:32:03,195 --> 00:32:05,745 But if you think you're the center of the universe, it becomes, why is 619 00:32:05,745 --> 00:32:06,915 that person not agreeing with me? 620 00:32:06,945 --> 00:32:07,625 Well their dumb. 621 00:32:08,020 --> 00:32:11,830 Oh, you know, and then they use because of the deconstructionism that's compare, 622 00:32:11,890 --> 00:32:13,570 that's paired with the postmodernism. 623 00:32:14,020 --> 00:32:17,980 All it takes is one little technicality, any little thing 624 00:32:17,980 --> 00:32:19,090 you can bring somebody down for. 625 00:32:19,120 --> 00:32:20,380 Oh, them they're not a reporter. 626 00:32:20,440 --> 00:32:21,040 Throw them out. 627 00:32:21,130 --> 00:32:21,700 So they're out. 628 00:32:21,730 --> 00:32:22,690 They're not academic enough. 629 00:32:22,840 --> 00:32:23,380 That's fine. 630 00:32:23,410 --> 00:32:24,880 Oh, they use this statement wrong. 631 00:32:24,910 --> 00:32:25,180 Boom. 632 00:32:25,630 --> 00:32:25,900 And then. 633 00:32:26,615 --> 00:32:27,755 Every single opinion. 634 00:32:28,055 --> 00:32:29,375 You're the only thing that's left. 635 00:32:29,825 --> 00:32:32,315 And then you don't have any joy because you're isolated. 636 00:32:32,735 --> 00:32:33,995 Doug: You have no joy. 637 00:32:34,295 --> 00:32:34,565 So, 638 00:32:35,525 --> 00:32:38,405 Jesse: well, I've really enjoyed having both of you on the desk today. 639 00:32:38,405 --> 00:32:39,965 It's been a great conversation. 640 00:32:39,995 --> 00:32:42,995 Zach's going to um, kind of wrap up this portion that we've 641 00:32:42,995 --> 00:32:43,925 been talking about this week. 642 00:32:44,405 --> 00:32:46,265 Um, on Sunday as he shares a message. 643 00:32:46,295 --> 00:32:49,715 And ultimately we just want you guys to be having discussions like this 644 00:32:49,715 --> 00:32:53,525 with your friends and your family, um, really understanding what you 645 00:32:53,525 --> 00:32:57,365 believe and why you believe it is the real point of this podcast. 646 00:32:57,365 --> 00:33:01,085 We want to encourage you to critically think through your beliefs and 647 00:33:01,085 --> 00:33:02,075 understand why you believe them. 648 00:33:02,075 --> 00:33:03,875 Don't ride your parents theology. 649 00:33:03,875 --> 00:33:06,965 Don't just do it because you know, your spouse or whatever does it. 650 00:33:07,470 --> 00:33:08,820 It needs to be your belief system. 651 00:33:08,820 --> 00:33:11,100 Otherwise it's not your belief system. 652 00:33:11,100 --> 00:33:13,050 It's just affect, simile of one. 653 00:33:13,050 --> 00:33:16,740 So please have discussions because that's going to be only grow you 654 00:33:17,010 --> 00:33:19,740 and further your understanding of what you believe in why you do. 655 00:33:19,800 --> 00:33:21,300 So thank you guys so much for joining us. 656 00:33:21,300 --> 00:33:23,670 We hope you join us on Sunday here in beautiful Boise, Idaho 657 00:33:23,670 --> 00:33:24,870 at Foothills Christian Church. 658 00:33:25,080 --> 00:33:25,770 Doug: Blessings.