Ben, what an absolutely pleasure to talk to you today.
I have been looking forward to this so much.
Ben Goya, but it's written as G -I -O -I -A.
And Ben is going to share with us today
Such an amazing story.
What's an authority?
What does that mean?
Being an authority is an important way to help others because when we want people to
say yes to us, one of the psychological factors of influence is authority.
When somebody sees us as an authority, it's easier for them to say yes, for us to
change their lives.
what are these elements of becoming an authority?
talk to your ideal client or customer about the thing you're creating,
especially before you create it, especially if you're writing your book.
Talk to them first.
Really understand how you can help them.
Don't make assumptions around what they need, even if you know what they need.
saying that.
Thank you for saying that.
Thank you.
That's like the thing I say.
Thank you.
Listen to your customers.
Thank you.
Absolutely, absolutely.
And serve people, right?
Again, we're going to hit this probably several times in our conversation, right?
How can you serve?
How can you help first and foremost?
And then from there, if there's a possibility to turn that into a business
relationship, a partnering relationship, even better.
So let's talk about that for a second.
Why are these quote unquote, you know, goody two shoes things, why do they
actually generate value?
And I'll prompt you for the next question.
How do you not get abused?
the good stuff cultivates trust and trust helps people say yes to us.
Trust is memorable, right?
There's that resonance from my heart to your heart, right?
And you're going to remember to introduce me to other people from that experience.
Even if you don't remember exactly what happened, you're going to remember that
feeling and go, you know what?
You got to meet this guy, Ben, right?
Because he left me with such a warm feeling.
and such a wonderful experience.
Can you give too much?
I think you can give too much sometimes in two respects.
One is that if you keep giving without asking for something in return, people are
just going to keep assuming that you're just going to give.
And then when you do ask for something in return, then they put up a wall or some
resistance because now you're not acting like you normally act.
really you want a relationship to be reciprocal.
And if they don't want to give after you've given, then maybe that's it.
Would you say that's an indication that maybe you want to discontinue the
relationship?
That certainly can be.
I mean, I think it's worth an exploration of why they don't want to give in return.
I mean, maybe there's something you don't understand.
Don't make an assumption, but also take the information.
And if you need to walk away, then walk away.
There's nothing wrong with that.
There's actually a book that talks about this.
So everything that Ben is saying is actually hugely backed by science.
And the book and the researcher that talks about this is obviously Givers and Takers
and the author and researcher and professor's name is, Adam Grant.
Okay.
So definitely, you know, the audience should go and look up Adam
And this is really the science and what Adam talks about is this whole idea of
givers, takers, and then what Ben and I have been discussing is this concept of
otherly givers, where it's sure you're a giver, but you need to build this
reciprocal relationship, which is really important.
So I really appreciate that, Ben.
Ben, you wrote a book, and I gotta tell you, when I saw the title, I was like, I
have to talk to this guy.
This is amazing.
So it's called Influence with a Heart.
How do you describe the book and how people receive it?
I've actually written four books and I'll try to collapse it all into one, right?
Obviously I'm all about service and doing things from the heart as much as possible,
right?
Allowing our heads to be in service of our heart rather than our hearts being in
service of our head, right?
Because our hearts are where our intuition is and connecting to and from and with
people from the heart.
makes for better outcomes.
I mean, you need the head in the mix, but if you don't have the heart, you don't got
nothing.
what is the absolutely worst example of somebody just completely messing this up?
Yeah, So I think a big one is just that image, that example of the sleazy used car
salesman, right?
That guy who's just trying to get you to buy the thing and trying to persuade you,
not influence you, but persuade you and manipulate you and play upon your fears
and do all sorts of things and use tactics to have you say yes rather than actually
inviting you.
to say yes and rather than being an ally in helping you make an educated decision.
Yeah, you know, I was talking to a customer the other day and he asked me,
well, how much time do I have to decide?
I was confused because I was like, well, well, I don't understand the question.
And then he said to me, I was talking to another company and they said that I have
basically 48 hours to decide or I need to wait two months or three months before I
can reapply.
Now, he is out of a job, so he needs help, right?
And they created a pressure pot for him, basically exacerbating his misery of being
under the stress of finding a job and saying, we'll help you, but you have to
decide right away.
And that's exactly the threat.
You were talking about these threats or this negative scare tactics is really what
they are, using scare tactics to influence.
So my comment to him was,
If people are using scare tactics to force you to make a decision, maybe that's a red
flag.
Would you agree?
I would totally agree with that.
Yeah, the in this day and age, there's no need.
There was never any need to do any of that, but it became a lot of the behavior
that a lot of people participated in.
And that seemed to be the way to do things.
And that's what people learned and people taught each other.
And we don't need to do that anymore.
There's no need to be in competition, right?
Cooperation really is the only way to go moving forward.
negativity bias.
What negativity bias is for the audience, I'm gonna share this.
And, you know, the easiest way to explain it is if it bleeds, it leads.
And that's the thing that comes from, you know, media.
and news media and what they say is like, if it's gory and negative and you know,
there's bleeding or blood, then it leads, right?
Because it's going to catch on.
And the psychology behind that is that, people pay more attention to the bad
stuff.
So I wanted to give you a little bit of a hardball here and say, but hold on.
We know the research shows that negativity is more salient, means that it gets more
attraction, OK?
I wrote a post saying, the CEO, this is real.
I wrote a post saying the CEO of some company should be fired.
It went viral.
I write a post about how Rotary and Highlands Ranch does a great project
building a library in Costa Rica.
It gets 10 views.
So we want to do good, but we know that people care about it for bleeds at Leeds.
How do we consolidate these two thoughts in our minds?
there's several aspects to that.
One is that we have to try and practice and it's not going to be solved overnight.
The other one is to honor that aspect of bleeding and leading in that we have the
negative negativity bias, right?
We have survival instinct and sometimes we need to speak the hard truth, the painful
truth and give voice to that from a place of integrity to show somebody we get where
they're at.
Right.
And then when they start paying attention, start listening, start reading, then we
can go, yeah, we know you're in this ugly, difficult kind of place, but there you
don't have to stay there.
Let's show you what's possible.
I see this guy on LinkedIn say, it's a great month.
It was December.
Great month to find a job.
No, it's not.
So I ran an R script, I wrote some software that, you know, it was 20 lines,
but it took 20 years of Bureau of Labor's statistic data that showed that November,
December are the worst months out of 20 years out of like 16, 17 years.
Worst month ever.
Not a month, the top five, the worst month.
And I'm like, no, what you're saying is wrong.
And I now don't believe anything you say.
So important what you're saying, right?
And it connects back to your main theme of authority, right?
If you're speaking from the heart, if you said integrity, if you're saying what
you're doing, doing what you're saying, if you're speaking your truth and you're
being kind in the process, right?
Maybe you'll get a few less views, but you're building a brand and an authority
and that's lasting.
So that's absolutely wonderful.
Tell me about how this goes very well.
So what are the examples of people who do this?
talking to your ideal clients about their challenges and goals and dreams and using
their language is one of the most powerful things that you can do.
Right?
Honoring their experience with the words that they're using is a complete game
changer.
And this is something I teach my authors.
Right?
Speak to people in their language and they will assume that you either have the
answer or can help them get to the answer.
You know this obviously, but politicians are the masters of this.
So when they're doing their road trips, based on where they are in the States,
they'll suddenly, they'll pull out the y 'all, right?
Suddenly they'll have all these local expressions that they just, you didn't say
that when you were in Florida, or California, sorry.
Where'd the y 'all come out of?
What are more methods of personalization that our audience can tell better stories
and from the heart?
What can they do?
So use people's names.
Very, very important.
People love to hear their names.
Ask people questions.
Sometimes I'll talk about empathy and people get hung up of like, well, how do I
use empathy and how do I integrate empathy?
And I'm saying it's really easy.
Tell people your story and ask people to tell them your story.
And you go right to empathy in both directions.
That's right.
All you need to do is open your ears and listen, right?
So you've had an amazing journey, Ben.
And it's a somewhat unexpected journey,
I used to do all sorts of drugs and party, party, party, and probably a good decade
and a half.
And I found my way to rock bottom, my version of rock bottom.
And I remember stepping out of my workplace, looking at the sky and saying,
I just want to be free.
And something clicked in my head.
I had been to India one time before.
And I was like, I know I'll go back to India.
Right, so I went back to India and had this very interesting experience of hiking
through the Himalayas for nine days with blisters on my feet.
Right, there's a whole backstory to that, but the big two big insights were one, all
of that pain kept me in the present moment for five days straight.
And suddenly I went, crap, the present moment.
This is what they're talking about.
This is why this is so powerful and impactful.
And the other big thing I discovered was the difference between pain and suffering,
right?
Pain is part of our experience, but suffering is the stuff we add, the
optional story, all that other, just throwing it out of whack.
So those two foundational bits, plus discovering meditation while I was in
India, really helped me turn my life around.
And I integrate everything that I just said into my book writing processes now.
OK, that sounds stupid.
I'm in pain.
How am I not suffering?
Right.
Great question.
So I'll just I'll give you my example.
So I'm hiking through the Himalayas with blisters on my Achilles tendons and hiking
for six or eight hours a day.
Right.
And ow, ow, ow, ow.
And it hurts.
And for the first five days, I'm really mad at myself because I didn't go to India
with new boots.
Right.
So I'm like, you're such an idiot.
And, you know, no wonder you were like on drugs and you're such a fool.
And what a what an ass.
And
Yeah.
all that stuff.
And then day five or six, I look at the mountains around me.
I'm like, my God, everything's so beautiful.
And I'm still my feet hurt, but everything's so beautiful.
I'm like, what's the difference?
Right.
And some of it was the present moment, but some of it was that distinction where I
wasn't giving myself a hard time for the pain.
Right.
I was letting the pain be over there and putting my attention and experience in
front of me into this magnificent beauty around me.
Okay.
But it's not only about hiking in the Himalayas.
There are people that are not in pain and they're suffering.
Yes, that's a great point too.
- you're not in pain, why are you suffering?
Right.
Because many reasons, depending on who the person is, right.
Being stuck in the past, right.
Regretting the past, worrying about the future.
Right.
Having anxiety about something, replaying a situation in your head.
I should have said that.
I shouldn't have said that.
How could he do that to me?
How could she do that to me?
To me.
Right.
How did they do that to me?
Right.
Taking things personally.
Yes.
Yes, I call that victimism.
Yeah.
That I got to tell you, that's the hugest pet peeve.
Honestly, when people behave like that, I it's very hard for me to not call them out
and say, look, you are not a victim.
OK, you control your life.
You control your destiny.
You might be in pain, but, you know, as you say, like, it's your choice that
you're suffering.
And in fact, the way I don't use your words, but my word is, is this is a
Pygmalion effect, right?
You are bringing upon yourself the suffering and you are bringing on yourself
more suffering because you're making the self -fulfilling prophecy through, you
know, your, your state of mind, et cetera.
So that's such, I appreciate you mentioning that because that's such a,
such a strong thing.
I feel like people who are able to, and whatever the tactic and tool is, if it's
meditation or there's many ways to, I think, achieve the state of
being present and there's mindfulness and all, you know, there's a million ways to
do this.
But I think once you, you know, you use the right tool that's right for you and
you reach the state of actually I am in control, right?
I'm not a victim.
It just completely changes perspective.
And that's such a powerful thing.
So, so you come back, you have this moment of let's call it enlightenment, right?
And you figure out that a perspective has changed in your mind.
And I'll just send the audience to learn about how a perspective can be worth 80 IQ
points.
That's a real thing.
It's called Blue Eye, Brian Eyes.
Go research it.
It's a teacher that did something with racism and children.
It was hugely criticized, but really great story.
Go look it up.
So a perspective changed in your mind.
And then you came back to just
life, right?
What happened then?
How did that transition into normal life?
Yeah, thank you.
So normal life wasn't quite normal anymore, which was good, right?
Because it helped me understand that there's more going on all the time, so
much more than we can possibly even conceive of.
And for me, that understanding I found really empowering because even though I
don't really have a clue what the heck's going on around me, I don't have to worry
about it so much, right?
I just remind myself to...
sit back and watch as much as I can and not get personally involved.
And this takes practice, right?
It still takes practice.
But stepping out of trying to control something, trying to make something happen
or not make something happen, I don't really do that anymore.
And that has really changed my life and changed my business.
Isn't that ridiculous that you gain more control by relinquishing control?
That's so counterintuitive.
So this is amazing.
And then this experience really, you pivoted in your whole life due to this
experience.
And I wish everybody could just gain what you gained, which is really self
-awareness.
It's such a powerful tool for growth, really, is what it is.
You became, and probably didn't start at that moment, but you're now a book coach.
You're a strategist and publisher advisor.
You help people establish really reputation and authority.
Tell us more about what you're doing today and how you help.
Yeah, thank you.
So I help folks write books.
And if they do what I say, they can have a first draft done in about five weeks
because I do some really optimized processes.
I'm the first one.
Anybody who knows anything about book writing knows that five weeks is
ridiculously short.
How the hell do you get a first draft in five weeks?
That makes no sense to me.
Gotta share your secrets with us, Ben.
This is not gonna let you off the hook here.
Absolutely my pleasure, my pleasure.
So first and foremost, to repeat the theme, talking to one's ideal clients
about the book you're writing as you're writing it, to understand the lens for the
book, the language for the book really helps you orient what to include, what not
to include, what stories to include.
So that's a huge time saver right there.
Number two is to use a book outline.
I give all my authors an actual outline.
Put the stuff in the places.
Don't think about the logistics.
Put the things in the right places.
I'm also a big fan of dictation as part of the process, because when you dictate, you
can speak about 600 words in four minutes, right?
And 600 words is 2 and 1 half percent of a 25 ,000 word book.
Yeah.
So very, very quickly.
you can get to that goal.
And the other great thing about dictation, which I'm such a fan of, is that when you
speak, you're using your authentic voice.
You're not thinking about the words.
You're not thinking about the punctuation.
not second guessing.
I love this is I look, I don't think people are appreciating what you're saying
here.
But when we think about authors working, they went to some cabin in the woods,
they've got a typewriter for some reason, I don't know why.
And they're they're they're agonizing themselves.
And then they have writer's block for months.
And then they're doing God knows what to overcome writers block everything but
right.
And we kind of see this as a very difficult process.
And yet you're giving these, honestly, I've never heard anything like this that
Ben has mentioned.
To me, this is all new.
This is borderline genius, right?
You're saying, just be authentic.
As you say, lead with your heart.
Just say your truth.
And just say it.
Don't write it so you're not using the logical filters to stop yourself.
And then have an outline.
Know where you're coming from.
Know where you're going.
Ben, I got to tell you, this is brilliant.
I love it.
So OK, so you know what?
Now I believe you.
I believe you.
Everything you've said so far, this is an accelerator.
This is great.
So they're getting this first draft within three weeks.
What happens after?
Yeah, thank you.
So we do some editing.
I structurally edit with them.
And I have the understanding of their ideal clients from the research they're
doing.
So I'm looking at their book as an advocate, both for their reader and for
themselves.
So is the book going to work for the reader?
Is the book going to work for the author?
So again,
the book work for the author?
Yep.
So is the book sharing the message that the author wants to share?
And is the book positioning the author as an expert, an authority, a thought leader?
And is the book opening the door for that person to say yes, to take a next step, to
get on the email list, to join them on LinkedIn, to book a call, whatever that
case may be?
Amazing.
That's so important.
So you're giving value to the audience, but at the end of the day, this is not 100
% selfless.
There's a give and get here.
And then you're establishing reputation through sharing your truth.
I love that.
And then you're helping really with the icky stuff, which is all the editing and
holding the hand and the stuff that people don't.
You don't necessarily want to be an expert in book publishing in order to publish
your book, right?
Like that's that's why.
Absolutely not, right?
Don't fix your own toilet.
Don't fix your own electric.
Yeah, don't learn publishing.
you know what I you know I fixed my toilet ones and I was like after I did that I was
like okay I understand why paying you know a plumber makes sense I did my own
plumbing in the front yard I did new piping for water and I was like I was at
Home Depot 20 times that night and I worked until after midnight and I was like
okay I have a deep sense of appreciation to the professionals doing this work deep
deep sense of appreciation
You know, I wouldn't I don't regret having that experience because I deeply value
that appreciation that I now have.
Like if you could like it's one thing to learn from your own mistakes, right?
If you're dumb like I am.
But if you're really smart, you'll learn from other people's mistakes.
That's the secret.
So learn from my mistakes.
Don't be dumb like me.
I need to make my own mistakes to learn from them.
Be smart.
Learn from my mistakes.
You know, as Ben's saying, don't do your own plumbing.
But no, that's half a joke, half true.
But I think the beautiful thing about having your own experiences is that you do
gain deeper insights.
But then it's a question of where do you want to spend your valuable time to gain
those deeper insights?
And I would argue it's not in learning the intricate seas of the publishing world,
right?
That's not where people want to spend their time.
Absolutely.
Absolutely, yeah, there's something like, depending who you talk to, you know, 400
steps, 500 steps to publish a book the right way.
Yeah, don't do that.
Yeah, even if you can go to ChatGPT to tell you the 400 steps, do you really want
to follow them?
And what's your money worth?
What's your time worth?
Exactly.
And even if you know the steps, are you going to actually do them right and do
them in the right combination in the right order?
So many layers.
I want to wrap up and ask, If you had to give one recommendation to our audience
that will help them improve their lives and the lives of the people around them,
what would that be?
Meditate.
Unhesitatingly meditate.
If you're not doing it, meditate.
If you're doing it already, do it more, even just a minute a day.
Awareness of the present moment and cultivating that muscle, practicing that
focus, there is nothing like it in the world, in the universe.
And it will change everything.
And it's just really, really important to do it and not
not have expectations, right?
It's kind of like you don't go to the gym and do some pushups and be like, okay, I'm
looking for my six pack abs today, right?
It's just go do the thing, do the thing, step back, keep relaxing.
I teach my authors to smile when they meditate and lighten their minds, right?
But just meditate, meditate because it will affect positively every single thing
in your entire experience.
That's right.
And I just, I can't help myself.
I have to always show the science behind the things people say.
Your body and your psyche are connected.
So the things that you physically do will affect your state of mind.
So when Ben says smile, that actually has a loopback effect, which is incredibly
powerful and this is scientifically proven.
Ben, what an absolute joy, joy -a?
What an absolutely joy -a to talk to you today.
Sorry, I'm going to get hate in the comments about my puns.
What a pleasure.
What a joy.
Thank you so much for joining us.
And I think we can definitely have you back.
This has been such a great experience.
And for those of the audience who want to reach out to you, because I think this is
something, if you're a thought leader, if you want to become a thought leader, I
think this is such a great opportunity.
If you do it with Ben or anybody else, whatever.
But let's give the audience how to reach out to you.
Yeah, thank you.
Influencewithaheart .com.
Once again, influencewithaheart .com.
You can see what I'm up to.
You can book a call with me there.
Happy to chat.
No pressure at all, right?
I am your ally in this.
And it's a really good idea to write your book.
Like, that's just true, right?
So it would be my honor and pleasure either to directly support you or point
you in the right direction to help make your dream come true.
Ben, thank you so much.
I appreciate you today.
Thank you.
Appreciate it, Ari.