WEBVTT NOTE This file was generated by Descript 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:02.969 Michele: Hey everyone, welcome back to Software Social. 00:00:03.359 --> 00:00:07.830 This week's episode is brought to you by Refine, Colleen's product. 00:00:08.100 --> 00:00:15.749 You should go to hammer stone.dev, if you use Laravel Nova and buy it from Colleen. 00:00:16.110 --> 00:00:20.363 It will help you build advanced features in minutes with the drop 00:00:20.363 --> 00:00:22.463 in feature builder for Laravel Nova. 00:00:22.493 --> 00:00:24.203 I'm just reading from the homepage. 00:00:24.923 --> 00:00:28.613 It is finally allowing you to add the advanced filtering that 00:00:28.613 --> 00:00:30.853 has lingered on your roadmap. 00:00:31.063 --> 00:00:37.003 So goes your hammer stone.dev, and buy it, I think it's a thousand dollars a year. 00:00:37.393 --> 00:00:42.293 It is the best thousand dollars you will spend today on filtering for Laravel Nova. 00:00:42.916 --> 00:00:43.486 Go do it. 00:00:43.816 --> 00:00:48.136 Um, by the way, if you, um, actually want to sponsor Software Social, 00:00:48.136 --> 00:00:53.656 you can go to software social.dev, and click on the sponsors tab. 00:00:54.016 --> 00:00:59.405 Uh, shout out to transistor.fm for making it super simple to add 00:00:59.405 --> 00:01:00.905 a sponsors page to our website. 00:01:01.445 --> 00:01:05.731 Okay, so with those rather unusual sponsor note announcements that 00:01:05.731 --> 00:01:08.851 Colleen did not know about, uh, Refine. 00:01:09.511 --> 00:01:09.781 How's it 00:01:09.856 --> 00:01:14.506 Colleen: So I S I see that you have, um, that was really funny. 00:01:14.506 --> 00:01:17.776 So we're both live and I was trying really hard not to laugh, 00:01:17.806 --> 00:01:19.966 but I did not see that coming. 00:01:21.286 --> 00:01:23.266 So I see that you've seen our new homepage. 00:01:23.266 --> 00:01:24.286 What do you think? 00:01:24.788 --> 00:01:25.748 Michele: I do. 00:01:25.748 --> 00:01:26.378 I see it. 00:01:26.438 --> 00:01:28.058 I like it. 00:01:28.496 --> 00:01:29.171 Colleen: Yeah. 00:01:29.181 --> 00:01:31.131 Michele: so, I mean, so we like bought it. 00:01:31.131 --> 00:01:32.571 We haven't installed it yet. 00:01:32.931 --> 00:01:33.801 We will get to it. 00:01:33.801 --> 00:01:34.611 I promise. 00:01:34.861 --> 00:01:39.061 But, so it basically looks like, sort of like meta base filtering 00:01:39.061 --> 00:01:41.101 almost like if you used meta base. 00:01:41.326 --> 00:01:43.936 Colleen: I used metabase for, um, simple file upload. 00:01:44.011 --> 00:01:49.874 Michele: it kind of reminds me of meta base, but easier to use, because I 00:01:49.874 --> 00:01:53.984 feel like every time I open metabase, I get like a little bit overwhelmed with 00:01:53.984 --> 00:01:58.574 like, oh, which database, my querying from like, oh God, make sure it's not the 00:01:58.574 --> 00:02:00.494 one that like gets overwhelmed easily. 00:02:00.494 --> 00:02:03.854 Like I don't want to accidentally run some query, that's going to be crazy. 00:02:03.854 --> 00:02:09.627 And like, so this actually, this is like, looks pretty, you know, pretty great. 00:02:09.987 --> 00:02:12.006 Colleen: yeah, I'm a meta base user, cause that's what I have 00:02:12.006 --> 00:02:13.446 right now for simple file upload. 00:02:13.506 --> 00:02:13.686 Hm. 00:02:14.526 --> 00:02:17.886 The diff, I mean, there's a lot of differences, but I'd say one of the 00:02:17.886 --> 00:02:21.606 big things about Refine is with meta base, when you go in, like, you know 00:02:21.606 --> 00:02:25.116 how you can ask a simple question or a complicated question to write 00:02:25.116 --> 00:02:29.466 custom sequel, all of that in the Refine products is extrapolated away. 00:02:29.466 --> 00:02:33.816 So you would just log in and then you would immediately see all of 00:02:33.816 --> 00:02:38.366 your filters and be able to query your data more intelligently. 00:02:38.726 --> 00:02:43.914 And the developer who sets up Refine, can allow or not allow you 00:02:43.914 --> 00:02:45.474 to query based on certain things. 00:02:45.474 --> 00:02:49.614 So like for example, I cannot wait till I'm done with the rails 00:02:49.644 --> 00:02:52.944 version of Refine so I can put it on simple file upload because 00:02:52.944 --> 00:02:54.594 metabase drives me a little bit nuts. 00:02:54.624 --> 00:02:59.234 Cause sometimes when I'm trying to get to, for me, like a really specific piece 00:02:59.234 --> 00:03:04.454 of data, for example, with simple file upload, I do this query where it's users 00:03:04.454 --> 00:03:08.984 that have signed up after February 4th because that's the day I started charging 00:03:08.984 --> 00:03:13.724 for, you know, and I want to separate them on by plan and I want to make sure the 00:03:13.784 --> 00:03:16.564 app is still provisioned and what else? 00:03:16.594 --> 00:03:18.874 And there's like other stuff I do in this query and it 00:03:18.874 --> 00:03:20.914 required me to write custom SQL. 00:03:20.974 --> 00:03:24.624 And so with refine that's you wouldn't have to write custom SQL for that. 00:03:24.624 --> 00:03:28.404 You can just go in and define your filters in that way, so you can query 00:03:28.584 --> 00:03:30.444 based on all kinds of cool stuff. 00:03:30.946 --> 00:03:32.566 Michele: Can You save a filter? 00:03:33.021 --> 00:03:33.701 Colleen: You can. 00:03:34.379 --> 00:03:35.219 Michele: Oh, cool. 00:03:35.309 --> 00:03:35.929 Yeah, I don't see. 00:03:35.999 --> 00:03:38.189 Yeah, I don't see that in the screenshot. 00:03:38.566 --> 00:03:40.276 Colleen: you don't see that in the screenshot? 00:03:40.376 --> 00:03:41.096 Michele: Yeah. 00:03:41.596 --> 00:03:42.586 Colleen: Well, this is our first. 00:03:42.586 --> 00:03:42.916 Okay. 00:03:42.916 --> 00:03:44.416 So let's talk about this site. 00:03:44.476 --> 00:03:47.866 I mean, this is our first pass at this. 00:03:48.251 --> 00:03:51.041 Michele: Yeah, this is, like a, this is a big improvement over what 00:03:51.071 --> 00:03:54.521 I feel like the previous website was like, it was like a black background. 00:03:54.521 --> 00:03:58.541 It did not have this cool stripes style. 00:03:58.541 --> 00:04:00.958 Uh, like, what, what do we call this? 00:04:00.958 --> 00:04:04.038 Where, where there's like the diagonal shading? 00:04:04.218 --> 00:04:05.028 Um, 00:04:05.303 --> 00:04:06.053 Colleen: Oh, I see. 00:04:06.168 --> 00:04:10.718 Michele: Yeah, no, like, it's, it's definitely much more polished looking. 00:04:11.423 --> 00:04:14.453 Colleen: Yeah, I, this, I mean, and this is, this has been a week, right? 00:04:14.453 --> 00:04:15.563 This is what we did in a week. 00:04:15.773 --> 00:04:22.429 So this is definitely a first pass of this site, but um, it's way better 00:04:22.429 --> 00:04:23.539 than it was last time we talked. 00:04:24.039 --> 00:04:24.579 Michele: Yeah. 00:04:25.101 --> 00:04:29.001 Colleen: So here is what we think the next step is, so we built this 00:04:29.001 --> 00:04:32.271 site and if you click read the docs, it will drop you to the docs. 00:04:32.271 --> 00:04:34.551 And if you look in the docs and the left-hand side, there's the 00:04:34.551 --> 00:04:38.448 Nova, nova link, so you can see how to install it with Nova. 00:04:39.018 --> 00:04:43.722 So our next move, is w we have not sent an email yet to tell 00:04:43.722 --> 00:04:45.942 people, so we have 200 plus people. 00:04:45.942 --> 00:04:48.762 I could actually get the number, but it's something like that on a mailing 00:04:48.762 --> 00:04:50.382 list and we have not emailed them yet. 00:04:50.652 --> 00:04:54.102 So the goal this week is to actually email people, telling them they can buy it. 00:04:54.602 --> 00:04:57.842 Michele: So, and that list is like everybody who's ever been 00:04:57.842 --> 00:05:00.925 interested in hammer stone. 00:05:01.345 --> 00:05:02.725 Why is it called hammer stone? 00:05:02.725 --> 00:05:04.425 If the product is actually called Refine. 00:05:05.123 --> 00:05:05.753 Colleen: I don't know. 00:05:05.793 --> 00:05:07.313 That was before I joined the company. 00:05:07.468 --> 00:05:08.008 Michele: Okay. 00:05:08.428 --> 00:05:08.848 Okay. 00:05:09.898 --> 00:05:10.558 So, 00:05:10.583 --> 00:05:11.303 Colleen: that came from. 00:05:12.118 --> 00:05:16.348 Michele: um, So but like those people were, were in general, 00:05:16.348 --> 00:05:20.452 interested in Hammerstone and stuff, or were they interested in the 00:05:20.452 --> 00:05:23.152 Refine for Laravel Nova package. 00:05:23.383 --> 00:05:25.243 Colleen: So I don't actually know. 00:05:25.543 --> 00:05:29.083 Let me see if I can tell Aaron set this up. 00:05:29.113 --> 00:05:32.713 So this might be partially like people saw his talk and were just excited 00:05:32.713 --> 00:05:34.213 about Aaron and they signed up. 00:05:34.590 --> 00:05:37.980 Michele: Well, that would be good because that was that those Laracon 00:05:37.980 --> 00:05:38.510 Colleen: Laracon. 00:05:38.610 --> 00:05:38.940 Right? 00:05:38.940 --> 00:05:39.060 So 00:05:39.120 --> 00:05:39.510 Michele: right? 00:05:39.540 --> 00:05:39.780 Yeah. 00:05:39.780 --> 00:05:42.390 So that would be, that would be promising. 00:05:42.895 --> 00:05:48.945 Colleen: Yeah, so we have MailChimp set up and we, um, yeah, so I don't have 00:05:48.945 --> 00:05:53.445 great demographics on the people on this mailing list, but I do think we have 00:05:53.445 --> 00:05:56.265 them, like Laravel people, non-Laravel. 00:05:56.761 --> 00:05:59.881 And so this would go out, we don't know who's Nova and who's not Nova. 00:05:59.911 --> 00:06:02.881 I don't think, but this, this is, I think the next step is to tell the 00:06:02.881 --> 00:06:05.491 people on our mailing list, they can buy it and we haven't done that yet. 00:06:05.491 --> 00:06:07.411 We are going to do that like tomorrow. 00:06:07.911 --> 00:06:13.211 Michele: Yeah, I guess not everybody using Laravel is going to be using nova, I mean, 00:06:13.211 --> 00:06:18.641 like if you use, Laravel kind of make sense to use Nova as your admin and like, 00:06:18.881 --> 00:06:25.016 it's great, but Yeah, I guess that'll be sorry, mitzi has just walked in. 00:06:25.016 --> 00:06:29.816 So we had been hoping to do like a live install and then for a variety of reasons 00:06:29.816 --> 00:06:32.586 that That is not happening tonight. 00:06:33.082 --> 00:06:36.743 Um, Hi. 00:06:36.873 --> 00:06:37.233 Yeah, 00:06:37.563 --> 00:06:39.543 Colleen: It's so late there you're such a trooper. 00:06:39.543 --> 00:06:43.293 Michelle, you got child to put to bed. 00:06:43.293 --> 00:06:44.703 You've had a long day. 00:06:44.883 --> 00:06:45.183 Michele: over. 00:06:45.183 --> 00:06:45.813 COVID. 00:06:45.813 --> 00:06:46.113 Yeah. 00:06:46.443 --> 00:06:47.193 Colleen: You're getting over. 00:06:47.193 --> 00:06:48.063 COVID 00:06:48.766 --> 00:06:53.969 Michele: So Refine, we will get it installed eventually. 00:06:54.689 --> 00:06:57.659 Um, no, but I actually like really want to use this, 00:06:57.909 --> 00:06:59.349 Colleen: Yeah, I think you're really gonna like it. 00:06:59.349 --> 00:07:00.329 I really want to use it. 00:07:00.429 --> 00:07:03.609 Like literally every rails project I've used, I'm like super excited. 00:07:04.613 --> 00:07:06.953 I mean, so our game plan, here's what we were kind of thinking as 00:07:06.953 --> 00:07:08.243 a game plan over the next week. 00:07:08.243 --> 00:07:09.713 So we'd get an email out. 00:07:09.743 --> 00:07:10.253 Okay. 00:07:10.433 --> 00:07:10.943 Oh man. 00:07:10.973 --> 00:07:12.203 And I want to talk to you about pricing. 00:07:12.233 --> 00:07:15.413 So are we ready to talk about the email we're going to send tomorrow or 00:07:15.413 --> 00:07:17.183 do we have other stuff to cover here? 00:07:17.686 --> 00:07:19.546 Michele: I have other questions, but let's talk about the. 00:07:20.296 --> 00:07:24.016 Colleen: So, like I said, we haven't sent out an email yet. 00:07:24.513 --> 00:07:26.253 We think we are ready to do that. 00:07:27.004 --> 00:07:31.708 But one of the things Erin and I were talking about was pricing. 00:07:32.211 --> 00:07:36.471 And I had the thought that maybe we do what we're charging now is a thousand 00:07:36.471 --> 00:07:38.481 dollars a year for an annual license. 00:07:38.988 --> 00:07:42.978 I feel like that's kind of inexpensive for the quality of the. 00:07:43.826 --> 00:07:47.786 And so maybe what we do is we do like intro pricing, like for the 00:07:47.786 --> 00:07:52.346 first two months or something, we keep it to incentivize people to buy. 00:07:52.410 --> 00:07:54.290 But also because I think a thousand dollars is cheap. 00:07:54.290 --> 00:07:59.110 So it'd be like, Hey, if you buy, buy, you know, June 1st, like we'll 00:07:59.110 --> 00:08:00.250 keep you out a thousand dollars. 00:08:00.250 --> 00:08:04.150 Everyone else is going to be on the new pricing structure, 00:08:04.180 --> 00:08:05.620 whatever we decide that should be 00:08:06.118 --> 00:08:07.858 Michele: How many people have paid you so far. 00:08:09.524 --> 00:08:10.034 okay. 00:08:10.536 --> 00:08:15.659 So I will agree with you that your pricing should probably 00:08:15.659 --> 00:08:17.399 change, probably be higher. 00:08:17.903 --> 00:08:22.163 I think at this point it would be somewhat premature to 00:08:22.660 --> 00:08:24.700 announce pricing changes, right? 00:08:25.448 --> 00:08:30.428 You need to have some time to learn about who's using it and why 00:08:30.428 --> 00:08:33.818 they're using it and what is the value they're getting out of it. 00:08:34.318 --> 00:08:38.628 And, you know, like thinking back to our episode with Ben, from Tupelo, 00:08:38.628 --> 00:08:42.048 for example, like, you know, they gave it, like, I think he said like 00:08:42.048 --> 00:08:47.778 at least six months with their initial pricing model and kind of knowing that 00:08:47.808 --> 00:08:49.308 wasn't going to be the longterm thing. 00:08:49.308 --> 00:08:52.713 And so, I do like the idea of being like, Hey, like it's a thousand dollars 00:08:52.713 --> 00:08:57.503 now it's going to go up in the future, but you don't really know when that 00:08:57.503 --> 00:08:59.213 is or like how it's going to change. 00:08:59.243 --> 00:09:01.883 But like, I think, you know, it's a thousand dollars a year 00:09:01.883 --> 00:09:06.743 now, and if you know, you buy it now you'll always pay that. 00:09:06.893 --> 00:09:07.343 Right. 00:09:07.943 --> 00:09:12.086 Um, which I guess actually that is something that quite a few pricing, 00:09:12.086 --> 00:09:17.206 people would, would quibble with me on is whether you keep people always That same 00:09:17.206 --> 00:09:19.186 price or you adjust their pricing plans. 00:09:19.876 --> 00:09:22.216 Um, big topic of conversation. 00:09:22.216 --> 00:09:25.877 I know there's a lot of very respected people who have very different opinions 00:09:25.877 --> 00:09:27.437 on that and probably disagree with mine. 00:09:28.147 --> 00:09:31.477 I would say like, just sell a bunch of this at a thousand dollars. 00:09:31.477 --> 00:09:32.827 See how much you can sell. 00:09:33.127 --> 00:09:34.947 See who's going to buy it right. 00:09:35.627 --> 00:09:40.337 Get them to be like rabid fans of yours that are telling everybody about it. 00:09:40.767 --> 00:09:43.527 To the point where you're like, we can't keep selling this thing at a 00:09:43.527 --> 00:09:46.257 thousand dollars a month because it's flying off the shelves and we've got 00:09:46.647 --> 00:09:49.287 so much demand and so many customers, and we can't possibly serve all of 00:09:49.287 --> 00:09:51.507 this at a thousand or $1,000 a year. 00:09:51.657 --> 00:09:52.017 Right. 00:09:52.514 --> 00:09:57.694 Like, I don't know, get to like 30 or like 50 customers. 00:09:57.754 --> 00:10:01.302 And then, maybe, maybe think about it again, but like at 00:10:01.302 --> 00:10:03.132 this point, just focus on. 00:10:03.932 --> 00:10:04.472 Colleen: Okay. 00:10:04.532 --> 00:10:05.372 That sounds great. 00:10:05.882 --> 00:10:07.592 So let's talk about selling. 00:10:07.772 --> 00:10:09.152 So we're going to send an email out. 00:10:09.152 --> 00:10:10.062 That's the first step. 00:10:10.062 --> 00:10:13.769 I think what we're going to do, so you and I talked about is we 00:10:13.769 --> 00:10:16.949 shouldn't force people to talk to us as an onboarding step. 00:10:17.189 --> 00:10:17.759 So what we're in. 00:10:17.899 --> 00:10:18.589 Michele: please. 00:10:18.589 --> 00:10:20.539 God do not force people. 00:10:20.569 --> 00:10:25.326 I have had two calls this week that were like, call us for 00:10:25.476 --> 00:10:28.266 demo or sign up, like, please. 00:10:29.051 --> 00:10:32.921 Please let people sign up without having to talk to you. 00:10:32.951 --> 00:10:33.431 Like 00:10:34.146 --> 00:10:34.326 Colleen: we 00:10:34.331 --> 00:10:35.231 Michele: yes. 00:10:35.496 --> 00:10:40.146 Colleen: So what we're thinking of doing based on your, cause you 00:10:40.146 --> 00:10:43.086 basically said that last week too, you were like, no, no, no, no. 00:10:43.086 --> 00:10:44.556 Don't make me have a call. 00:10:45.036 --> 00:10:48.586 So I think what we're going to do is send an email out tomorrow to our Laravel 00:10:48.586 --> 00:10:53.206 people tell them it's available for sale and they can optionally book an 00:10:53.236 --> 00:10:57.526 onboarding call with Aaron and myself, if they need help getting it installed. 00:10:57.826 --> 00:11:01.246 And I think we're going to learn so much with that like first wave. 00:11:01.749 --> 00:11:03.879 Michele: Yeah, I would, I would do that. 00:11:03.879 --> 00:11:07.796 Like, again, and this is something also that, you know, respected people are 00:11:07.796 --> 00:11:09.266 going to disagree with me on, right? 00:11:09.316 --> 00:11:12.526 I know some people who, you know, who forced the onboarding call 00:11:12.526 --> 00:11:14.806 or a force, an off-boarding call. 00:11:14.836 --> 00:11:15.196 Right. 00:11:15.465 --> 00:11:16.451 Colleen: Yeah, that's the worst. 00:11:16.471 --> 00:11:17.131 Those people are 00:11:17.176 --> 00:11:18.226 Michele: Yeah. 00:11:18.646 --> 00:11:19.426 Yeah. 00:11:19.936 --> 00:11:25.066 We're not going to name any names for a very well-known company that started doing 00:11:25.066 --> 00:11:28.876 that after being beloved for a long time. 00:11:29.375 --> 00:11:32.555 But like, you know, if people want to do that, like they will do it, but 00:11:32.555 --> 00:11:35.705 like, isn't it better if they, if it's so easy to get started with, they can 00:11:35.705 --> 00:11:37.805 just install it and start using it. 00:11:37.805 --> 00:11:40.595 And then they tweet about how great it was and how easy it was to get started. 00:11:40.625 --> 00:11:40.985 Right? 00:11:41.305 --> 00:11:45.925 You know, there's choices here and how you structure the business and 00:11:45.925 --> 00:11:48.715 how you structure the user experience. 00:11:48.715 --> 00:11:48.865 Right? 00:11:48.865 --> 00:11:50.485 The user experience is not just. 00:11:51.350 --> 00:11:54.830 Screenshot, I'm looking at of somebody having it installed in Nova. 00:11:54.830 --> 00:11:58.280 The user user experience is also how do I buy this? 00:11:58.280 --> 00:12:00.290 What is my experience like to buy it? 00:12:00.290 --> 00:12:01.190 How do I feel about. 00:12:01.190 --> 00:12:01.430 that? 00:12:01.430 --> 00:12:05.600 How do I feel about how quickly I go from deciding I want it to 00:12:05.600 --> 00:12:07.400 actually getting to use it, right? 00:12:07.400 --> 00:12:10.100 Like those things are user experience too. 00:12:10.100 --> 00:12:15.479 And so I feel like that is, uh, a pretty important user experience decision. 00:12:15.976 --> 00:12:18.556 And I mean, it's, it's just the two, we got you guys, you don't have 00:12:18.556 --> 00:12:21.316 an army of sales people, right? 00:12:21.346 --> 00:12:25.266 Like you need people to like, love this and talk about. 00:12:26.014 --> 00:12:27.034 Colleen: Yeah, absolutely. 00:12:27.094 --> 00:12:27.454 Okay. 00:12:27.484 --> 00:12:29.914 And you know, our documents are incredibly extensive. 00:12:29.914 --> 00:12:33.424 So for the developer who just wants to get rolling, like he, or she 00:12:33.424 --> 00:12:36.502 should be able to do that you know, on their own accord, as they desire. 00:12:37.252 --> 00:12:41.122 Michele: I feel like that's something you have learned from simple file upload. 00:12:41.122 --> 00:12:46.328 Like remember, you were like talking to people and at about what was holding 00:12:46.328 --> 00:12:48.758 them back before they decided to use it. 00:12:48.818 --> 00:12:50.258 And one of those key things. 00:12:51.257 --> 00:12:54.617 Oh, well, like, you know, where's the documentation, like, I just want to see 00:12:54.617 --> 00:12:58.006 how it works or the, the code pen, right? 00:12:58.006 --> 00:13:01.426 Like seeing it in action before you decide to install it. 00:13:01.846 --> 00:13:05.746 And so I feel like I can really see that in this landing page that you 00:13:05.746 --> 00:13:10.672 have seen the importance of, like, if you're selling directly to developers 00:13:10.691 --> 00:13:15.176 to make it really easy for them to see what they are getting and how 00:13:15.176 --> 00:13:16.726 complicated is going to be for them to. 00:13:17.579 --> 00:13:21.269 Colleen: Yeah, it'll be interesting to I'm I'm super excited to send this email 00:13:21.269 --> 00:13:25.619 tomorrow because there'll be interesting, to me, if people are going to ask for, 00:13:25.649 --> 00:13:30.359 Hey, can I try it for so much, you know, XYZ time and things like that, because it 00:13:30.359 --> 00:13:36.779 is kind of a lot to ask someone to spend that kind of money without really fully 00:13:36.779 --> 00:13:38.609 comprehending the developer experience. 00:13:38.879 --> 00:13:41.429 So I'm just really curious to see what kind of responses we get. 00:13:41.929 --> 00:13:42.499 Michele: Yeah. 00:13:42.589 --> 00:13:45.846 I mean, but like, thinking back to the episode with Ben, from Tupelo, I 00:13:45.846 --> 00:13:49.476 might be remembering this entirely incorrectly, but like there was one phase 00:13:49.476 --> 00:13:55.107 of there is where like, You had to pay like $500 for a one month trial of it. 00:13:55.107 --> 00:13:57.687 And like people put it on their personal credit cards cause they 00:13:57.687 --> 00:13:59.157 really wanted to try it so much. 00:13:59.637 --> 00:14:00.027 Right. 00:14:00.027 --> 00:14:03.777 So like, I think it's okay if in the beginning you have a lot of, people were 00:14:03.777 --> 00:14:08.517 like, Hey, I would love to try this, but it's just really out of my price range. 00:14:08.877 --> 00:14:12.507 And be like, I can totally understand that I'm going to save your name on a list. 00:14:12.507 --> 00:14:16.251 I'll reach out when we have, you know, pricing that might be a bit 00:14:16.251 --> 00:14:17.391 more accessible for everybody. 00:14:17.391 --> 00:14:18.061 But, Yeah. 00:14:18.151 --> 00:14:22.599 I have this, just, you know, only deal with the people who want it so 00:14:22.599 --> 00:14:25.359 much that they're willing to pay you a thousand dollars a year for whom 00:14:25.359 --> 00:14:27.939 like, like you told me this thing was a thousand dollars a year and I 00:14:27.939 --> 00:14:29.169 was like, great, that sounds cheap. 00:14:29.179 --> 00:14:29.839 how do I pay you? 00:14:29.839 --> 00:14:30.169 Right. 00:14:30.349 --> 00:14:32.839 You want the customers like me right now? 00:14:33.294 --> 00:14:33.834 Colleen: Right, 00:14:34.339 --> 00:14:37.759 Michele: And there's time and space to have something that 00:14:37.759 --> 00:14:40.566 brings everybody else on board. 00:14:41.046 --> 00:14:41.436 Right. 00:14:41.486 --> 00:14:42.896 There's also the open source version. 00:14:42.896 --> 00:14:43.046 So. 00:14:43.886 --> 00:14:47.396 I feel like if people can't pay for it, they can just use the 00:14:47.396 --> 00:14:49.646 open-source version and like, you know, 00:14:49.651 --> 00:14:49.831 Colleen: Good 00:14:49.916 --> 00:14:51.236 Michele: with their time instead. 00:14:51.536 --> 00:14:52.016 Right? 00:14:52.106 --> 00:14:54.116 Like that's, that's an option, right? 00:14:54.116 --> 00:14:56.999 Like this is that's the ultimate accessible. 00:14:57.752 --> 00:14:58.382 Colleen: What was I going to say? 00:14:58.412 --> 00:14:58.952 Yeah. 00:14:59.452 --> 00:15:06.466 So how do I, we're going to send an email, how else do I find customers, like you. 00:15:06.966 --> 00:15:10.716 Michele: Oh, how do you find customers like me? 00:15:11.316 --> 00:15:12.831 That is a really interesting question. 00:15:12.838 --> 00:15:17.838 I feel like, I mean, I guess Aaron is, more in touch and like 00:15:17.838 --> 00:15:19.218 the Laravel of a world, right? 00:15:19.248 --> 00:15:21.978 Like this, like that is definitely his people. 00:15:22.548 --> 00:15:26.665 Um, I know he's, you know, definitely like built a reputation 00:15:26.665 --> 00:15:28.255 for himself in that world. 00:15:28.535 --> 00:15:32.215 I mean, have you guys talked about doing any like advertising in terms 00:15:32.215 --> 00:15:36.775 of like, you know, or even just PR like, have you tried to see if you 00:15:36.775 --> 00:15:41.531 could get it mentioned on Laravel news or Like, has it officially launched? 00:15:42.034 --> 00:15:43.774 You're sending this email tomorrow, 00:15:44.029 --> 00:15:44.569 Colleen: tomorrow. 00:15:44.569 --> 00:15:47.299 I feel like we'll officially launch when we tell people we 00:15:47.299 --> 00:15:48.649 have not told people about it yet. 00:15:48.679 --> 00:15:51.199 So tomorrow that's why I'm asking. 00:15:51.199 --> 00:15:53.569 So I won't talk to you, you know, we won't record again for a week 00:15:53.989 --> 00:15:59.256 and in that week we want to start taking steps to launch in quotes. 00:15:59.286 --> 00:15:59.556 Right. 00:15:59.586 --> 00:16:03.139 We're not, you know, to, really start the business side of this, right? 00:16:03.139 --> 00:16:05.419 Like the focus now needs to be on selling this thing. 00:16:05.419 --> 00:16:05.599 So. 00:16:06.459 --> 00:16:08.559 Michele: I mean earned media is always a good, good try. 00:16:08.559 --> 00:16:11.499 So I feel like it's worth, at least reaching out to Laravel news and S 00:16:11.749 --> 00:16:12.709 Colleen: Oh, Laravel hill news. 00:16:12.789 --> 00:16:12.969 Michele: Yeah, 00:16:12.999 --> 00:16:13.689 Earned media. 00:16:13.689 --> 00:16:13.959 right. 00:16:13.959 --> 00:16:15.309 As opposed to like paid media. 00:16:15.309 --> 00:16:15.579 Right. 00:16:15.579 --> 00:16:19.129 So like earned media is, you know, journalist writes about you or, you 00:16:19.129 --> 00:16:23.369 know, a blog or something like that as most like paid media ads, right? 00:16:23.459 --> 00:16:23.849 Colleen: Right. 00:16:23.849 --> 00:16:25.829 I don't think we're, we're not gonna run ads in the first 00:16:25.949 --> 00:16:26.459 Michele: Yeah. 00:16:26.789 --> 00:16:27.239 Yeah. 00:16:27.659 --> 00:16:31.589 But see, I mean, Laravel news or, you know, I imagine Aaron is going to be 00:16:31.619 --> 00:16:37.229 tweeting about it and you know, Maybe he can get some clutch retweets on that. 00:16:37.289 --> 00:16:37.739 Right. 00:16:37.776 --> 00:16:41.646 Cause I mean, he's so good at Twitter and he just like shows like, Hey, here's 00:16:41.646 --> 00:16:43.236 this really cool thing that I built. 00:16:43.316 --> 00:16:46.016 And then people like, whoa, that is like really amazing. 00:16:46.416 --> 00:16:48.066 He's just really good at that. 00:16:48.756 --> 00:16:51.486 I think he describes it as like nerd tweets, right. 00:16:51.573 --> 00:16:54.976 That are just, you know just like really cool stuff. 00:16:55.037 --> 00:16:56.885 Not very articulative of me. 00:16:57.355 --> 00:16:58.015 so Yeah. 00:16:58.519 --> 00:16:59.239 Colleen: Okay. 00:16:59.299 --> 00:16:59.899 Michele: Yeah. 00:16:59.959 --> 00:17:03.139 I don't, and maybe that'll like fine, but also like, I, mean, I'm sure there's 00:17:03.139 --> 00:17:07.879 people listening who use Nova at work, like your hand if you use Nova. 00:17:08.482 --> 00:17:12.412 If you're currently walking your dog, raising your hand, high five from me. 00:17:12.892 --> 00:17:15.562 Um, right. 00:17:15.662 --> 00:17:19.472 There's probably people listening who used Nova, like either in their own 00:17:19.472 --> 00:17:26.876 businesses or at work and also for whom it is not a big lift to pay a thousand 00:17:26.876 --> 00:17:31.549 dollars a year for something that's going to make it much easier for them to 00:17:31.549 --> 00:17:34.360 like slice and dice their, their users. 00:17:34.360 --> 00:17:34.780 Right. 00:17:35.906 --> 00:17:38.700 literally, this is not a Halloween episode. 00:17:39.665 --> 00:17:40.985 Colleen: Not literally. 00:17:41.160 --> 00:17:42.090 Michele: literally. 00:17:42.275 --> 00:17:43.565 Colleen: Um, yes, absolutely. 00:17:43.565 --> 00:17:46.145 That sounds, that sounds great. 00:17:46.175 --> 00:17:48.575 So I feel like in this next week, like, this is exciting. 00:17:48.575 --> 00:17:51.665 Like we're whatever you want to call it soft launching tomorrow. 00:17:51.665 --> 00:17:52.355 So 00:17:52.855 --> 00:17:53.035 Michele: so 00:17:53.050 --> 00:17:54.100 Colleen: like in this next week, 00:17:54.565 --> 00:17:55.435 Michele: is actually 00:17:55.933 --> 00:17:56.908 Colleen: tomorrow, April 00:17:57.268 --> 00:17:57.988 Michele: four. 00:17:58.491 --> 00:18:00.711 So this, this airs on Tuesday, right? 00:18:00.711 --> 00:18:02.961 So this so this will have been last Friday. 00:18:03.758 --> 00:18:04.508 Colleen: That's right 00:18:04.593 --> 00:18:09.386 Michele: we need to start talking about the future as if it's in the past. 00:18:09.571 --> 00:18:10.141 Colleen: think that's 00:18:10.916 --> 00:18:12.896 Michele: This is getting all back to the future here. 00:18:15.841 --> 00:18:17.101 Colleen: oh my goodness. 00:18:18.146 --> 00:18:22.406 Michele: At what point do you and Aaron get out of a DeLorean? 00:18:24.236 --> 00:18:25.706 That is your launch video. 00:18:27.841 --> 00:18:29.251 Colleen: Yes. 00:18:30.436 --> 00:18:31.186 Michele: Oh, man. 00:18:31.186 --> 00:18:31.786 We're all thrilled. 00:18:31.816 --> 00:18:32.176 Okay. 00:18:32.266 --> 00:18:35.416 So I mean, I just, I seriously, this is a huge improvement, even from 00:18:35.416 --> 00:18:40.231 like what, like two weeks ago when I slacked you and I was like, Um, oh, no. 00:18:40.231 --> 00:18:44.563 It's cause you just told me, just totally, as an aside that you had 00:18:44.563 --> 00:18:48.403 this Nova thing when we were in California and I was like, what? 00:18:48.403 --> 00:18:52.603 You have a Nova thing that people can buy and you didn't even tell me. 00:18:52.603 --> 00:18:56.443 I was, I was mad, honestly, that you had something that I could 00:18:56.443 --> 00:18:58.573 buy that was relevant to me. 00:18:58.573 --> 00:19:00.243 You know, I love that you have simple file upload. 00:19:00.448 --> 00:19:03.358 It's not super relevant to what we do, so I haven't bought it, 00:19:03.928 --> 00:19:05.518 but like, this is super relevant. 00:19:05.518 --> 00:19:09.388 And I was like, you didn't even tell me that I could give you money. 00:19:09.718 --> 00:19:12.088 Like, um, 00:19:13.108 --> 00:19:13.948 Colleen: It's so true. 00:19:14.008 --> 00:19:14.188 Yeah. 00:19:14.398 --> 00:19:17.548 Michele: So, and then I think from that point, I like slacked you. 00:19:17.548 --> 00:19:20.345 And I was like, so how do we buy this? 00:19:20.375 --> 00:19:25.465 And like, basically got like a direct, you know, one of those, 00:19:25.465 --> 00:19:28.890 like, Stripe magic checkout links. 00:19:29.393 --> 00:19:33.256 Um, And, but like, there was like nothing on the Hammerstone website, so, 00:19:33.256 --> 00:19:35.896 and that was like Two weeks ago, maybe. 00:19:36.076 --> 00:19:38.776 So like, you guys are really on fire right now. 00:19:38.856 --> 00:19:39.036 like 00:19:39.046 --> 00:19:39.556 Colleen: we're moving. 00:19:40.066 --> 00:19:41.416 Michele: that you guys are moving. 00:19:41.506 --> 00:19:41.956 Yeah. 00:19:42.121 --> 00:19:43.291 Colleen: are, we are moving. 00:19:43.291 --> 00:19:44.101 We are ready. 00:19:44.131 --> 00:19:45.271 Like the time is now. 00:19:45.571 --> 00:19:49.981 We are the next, honestly like this week, we'll be big Michelle, because if we 00:19:49.981 --> 00:19:51.991 have, okay, let me look up our account. 00:19:52.491 --> 00:19:54.051 How do I MailChimp? 00:19:54.111 --> 00:20:03.831 We have 277 people on our mailing list 00:20:04.333 --> 00:20:07.243 segment ref wait, let me look at the refined Laravel segment. 00:20:07.243 --> 00:20:07.613 That's probably. 00:20:08.410 --> 00:20:13.630 Oh, yeah, 399 contacts, 277 if I'm looking at this, right. 00:20:13.630 --> 00:20:18.250 I'm kind of new to MailChimp um, that are Laravel specific. 00:20:18.610 --> 00:20:23.130 So, so I mean, if we got like, I mean, I just feel like in this next 00:20:23.190 --> 00:20:26.790 month, no week in this next week, like, it'll be really interesting 00:20:26.790 --> 00:20:28.230 to see what kind of response we get. 00:20:28.500 --> 00:20:31.620 And honestly, like it's easy for people to sign up for a mailing list, a whole 00:20:31.620 --> 00:20:32.820 different thing to buy a product. 00:20:32.820 --> 00:20:32.990 So. 00:20:34.138 --> 00:20:34.378 Yeah. 00:20:34.378 --> 00:20:35.548 I feel like a lot's going to happen 00:20:36.051 --> 00:20:40.971 Michele: Have you set a sort of like stepped goals for the, like, just 00:20:40.971 --> 00:20:42.801 like for your own expectations of. 00:20:43.656 --> 00:20:45.756 Colleen: yeah, we want to sell five licenses a month. 00:20:46.254 --> 00:20:46.674 Michele: Okay. 00:20:46.884 --> 00:20:52.064 So if you send out this email and then a week from now, you have sold five, then 00:20:52.064 --> 00:20:54.074 that would, that would be a big success 00:20:54.349 --> 00:20:55.039 Colleen: oh, that'd be cute. 00:20:55.069 --> 00:20:56.719 I feel like that would be a huge success. 00:20:56.719 --> 00:20:56.899 Like. 00:20:57.164 --> 00:20:57.584 Michele: Cool. 00:20:57.584 --> 00:20:59.384 Colleen: That would be huge. 00:20:59.444 --> 00:21:00.164 Yes, 00:21:00.469 --> 00:21:01.789 Michele: Okay, cool. 00:21:02.274 --> 00:21:03.154 Yeah, I think. 00:21:03.959 --> 00:21:04.739 You're you're moving. 00:21:04.739 --> 00:21:07.079 I feel like you've been kind of frustrated for a couple months 00:21:07.079 --> 00:21:12.076 because like, things kind of weren't happening as fast as you hoped for. 00:21:12.076 --> 00:21:17.613 And you felt like you had done like your, your part basically, like the rail side 00:21:17.613 --> 00:21:22.683 was done and you were, you weren't like twiddling your thumbs, but you almost were 00:21:22.733 --> 00:21:24.353 like getting a little bit antsy, right? 00:21:24.353 --> 00:21:25.073 It's like, well, what do. 00:21:25.073 --> 00:21:25.373 I do. 00:21:25.373 --> 00:21:25.913 now? 00:21:25.943 --> 00:21:30.637 And now it's like, what you do now is you grow into the next. 00:21:31.442 --> 00:21:37.226 Phase of being a founder and, you know, go like, go beyond your own, 00:21:37.566 --> 00:21:39.636 you know, scope of expertise, right? 00:21:39.666 --> 00:21:43.446 And use you to just said like, you're new to MailChimp, but you're figuring it out. 00:21:43.446 --> 00:21:44.346 You're querying. 00:21:44.346 --> 00:21:48.806 It it's almost wish you could use your own tool for that. 00:21:48.806 --> 00:21:49.076 Right. 00:21:49.766 --> 00:21:52.016 Um, right. 00:21:52.016 --> 00:21:53.756 Like you're learning new stuff, like who wrote the. 00:21:54.502 --> 00:21:55.852 Colleen: We didn't we're going to write it tomorrow. 00:21:56.353 --> 00:21:58.543 Michele: You haven't written the email yet. 00:21:59.023 --> 00:21:59.863 Colleen: That's correct. 00:22:00.613 --> 00:22:01.153 But yes. 00:22:01.153 --> 00:22:01.783 To your point. 00:22:01.813 --> 00:22:02.773 Yes, absolutely. 00:22:02.773 --> 00:22:06.323 I think that's Growing into the next stage of, of being a founder, which 00:22:06.323 --> 00:22:08.993 is all this, all this stuff, right? 00:22:08.993 --> 00:22:10.613 Like all of, all of it. 00:22:10.913 --> 00:22:11.243 So 00:22:11.743 --> 00:22:14.503 Michele: I wonder, what, what do you feel like you have learned since 00:22:14.503 --> 00:22:17.593 you launched simple file upload like that you're bringing to this? 00:22:17.593 --> 00:22:20.203 I, you know, I mentioned the thing about the importance of the docs. 00:22:21.007 --> 00:22:23.827 Colleen: I mean, honestly, it's so many things, everything I have 00:22:23.827 --> 00:22:27.717 done for simple file upload, has prepared me for hammer stone. 00:22:27.987 --> 00:22:32.390 And I think, you know, fundamentally, I mean, it's just so many things, 00:22:32.390 --> 00:22:36.020 but I fundamentally, I feel like when you're first trying to launch a 00:22:36.020 --> 00:22:42.637 business as a developer, the reason so many people fail is because we 00:22:42.997 --> 00:22:49.477 fundamentally do not understand this concept of selling and marketing. 00:22:49.507 --> 00:22:52.327 Like we just do not get and. 00:22:53.062 --> 00:22:57.022 Over time, the more you do it, like this stuff is really hard. 00:22:57.052 --> 00:23:02.392 I think I love this article by Alex Hillman about why so many people fail 00:23:03.262 --> 00:23:07.372 and it's because he takes developers who are at the top of their field 00:23:07.672 --> 00:23:12.292 and that he asked these people to learn an entirely new skillset and 00:23:12.788 --> 00:23:15.698 internally you kind of freak out and you're like, oh my gosh, how do I beat? 00:23:15.718 --> 00:23:17.978 I think it's called how to begin again or something like that. 00:23:18.218 --> 00:23:19.838 Like how do you become a beginner again? 00:23:20.603 --> 00:23:22.973 And all of these things like that are so hard. 00:23:22.973 --> 00:23:25.007 Like I'm a developer. 00:23:25.067 --> 00:23:30.310 I can make anything, but ask me to give me like a computer and say, build 00:23:30.310 --> 00:23:32.290 a landing page like two years ago. 00:23:32.290 --> 00:23:36.460 That was just like, Hmm, what do I put on a landing page? 00:23:36.490 --> 00:23:38.020 Like I literally do not know. 00:23:38.110 --> 00:23:38.530 Right. 00:23:38.530 --> 00:23:39.460 Stuff like that. 00:23:39.460 --> 00:23:43.077 So you'd have this, or at least I would have this like fear, for 00:23:43.077 --> 00:23:47.457 example, of a blank page, no designer. 00:23:47.487 --> 00:23:48.657 That's like the scariest thing ever. 00:23:50.078 --> 00:23:54.638 And so I think those kinds of hurdles, which theoretically, like 00:23:54.938 --> 00:23:58.118 technically speaking, building a landing page is really easy. 00:23:58.178 --> 00:23:58.508 Right? 00:23:58.508 --> 00:24:01.928 I know how to build what, like, like the technical, the code is like the 00:24:01.928 --> 00:24:05.648 easiest thing ever, but like, thinking about what do you actually put on it? 00:24:05.678 --> 00:24:06.788 What do you say? 00:24:06.818 --> 00:24:07.928 Do you use images? 00:24:07.958 --> 00:24:10.118 What kind of images do you use videos? 00:24:10.622 --> 00:24:13.352 All of that is really hard. 00:24:13.852 --> 00:24:18.262 Michele: I think I need to dig up this article because I definitely feel that 00:24:18.262 --> 00:24:20.872 way about my Danish language classes. 00:24:20.902 --> 00:24:23.872 I relate very hard to this. 00:24:23.872 --> 00:24:27.172 Like I remember like being when I started the classes last I guess 00:24:27.172 --> 00:24:31.805 the end of last summer and like, I couldn't even, I think I had write 00:24:31.805 --> 00:24:37.216 some like basic email inviting someone to a party and I was like, oh my God, 00:24:37.426 --> 00:24:41.446 I speak several other languages and I'm literally an author in my own language. 00:24:41.446 --> 00:24:43.276 And I can't like say this really. 00:24:43.276 --> 00:24:46.336 Like, I can't even interact with like a grocery store cashier 00:24:46.336 --> 00:24:47.956 or like write an email, and it. 00:24:47.956 --> 00:24:48.796 was like his tone. 00:24:48.826 --> 00:24:52.663 It was like, uh, it was like this like kind of personal, crisis of 00:24:52.663 --> 00:24:55.753 like you're very advanced in one area. 00:24:56.143 --> 00:25:00.603 And then going to something where you're just, kind of completely standing in the 00:25:00.603 --> 00:25:04.963 wilderness or less, and feeling like you have no map and no idea how to get out. 00:25:04.993 --> 00:25:05.353 Right? 00:25:05.383 --> 00:25:12.766 It's so like, personally disorienting and for you, like, I think, you know, 00:25:12.766 --> 00:25:15.466 this is one of the reasons why it's so helpful to have a side project, even 00:25:15.466 --> 00:25:18.526 if it doesn't lead to anything, if you want to be a felt like it doesn't have 00:25:18.526 --> 00:25:21.213 to be your forever business, right. 00:25:21.213 --> 00:25:24.680 Or even like a business becomes a full-time thing, because you got 00:25:24.680 --> 00:25:31.570 to go through not only that sort of personal crisis side of this, right? 00:25:31.640 --> 00:25:35.360 With something that, that effectively, like, didn't matter as much, right? 00:25:35.360 --> 00:25:36.260 Like it still matters. 00:25:36.260 --> 00:25:36.980 It's still running. 00:25:36.980 --> 00:25:43.473 You still have customers, but like you're, you're really all in on Refine. 00:25:43.473 --> 00:25:50.153 And I feel like you wouldn't have same level of composure and kind of 00:25:50.153 --> 00:25:55.483 clarity about it had you not gone through not only that like psychological 00:25:55.483 --> 00:25:58.363 experience, but also like, I remember when you made simple file upload, like 00:25:58.693 --> 00:26:03.906 you were done with the actual product months before somebody could buy it. 00:26:03.906 --> 00:26:07.761 Cause then you were like, oh shoot, I got to build all this stuff users, 00:26:07.761 --> 00:26:12.321 yeah, I guess like building a way for someone to make a user account and 00:26:12.321 --> 00:26:16.345 like reset their password is totally different from how they actually 00:26:16.345 --> 00:26:19.485 use the, the thing, like the tool. 00:26:19.988 --> 00:26:25.611 And so, like, I think you had, uh, a certain amount of perspective this 00:26:25.611 --> 00:26:30.885 time and of course, you know, still, growth to be had as, as we all do. 00:26:30.915 --> 00:26:31.365 Right. 00:26:31.865 --> 00:26:36.545 Um, but, but I think it was, I think it was valuable for you to like go through 00:26:36.545 --> 00:26:40.435 that beginning again, thing before this. 00:26:41.190 --> 00:26:42.450 Colleen: oh, incredibly. 00:26:42.510 --> 00:26:45.750 I think the biggest difference between when I launched simple file upload and 00:26:45.750 --> 00:26:48.930 launching Refine or hammer stone, the products called refine the businesses 00:26:48.930 --> 00:26:53.790 hammer stone is I feel like I know what to do now and that I don't have all the 00:26:53.790 --> 00:26:58.821 answers, but I have, I have ideas like before, when you start for the first 00:26:58.821 --> 00:27:01.941 time you try to launch a business, you literally have no idea what to do. 00:27:02.651 --> 00:27:06.471 Like, like you're just like, what the heck? 00:27:06.741 --> 00:27:09.561 And now I have, I feel like I know what to do. 00:27:09.651 --> 00:27:11.241 I feel like I have all these ideas. 00:27:11.271 --> 00:27:14.415 I feel like, you know, I don't feel so lost. 00:27:14.415 --> 00:27:18.015 Of course I, you know, love to talk to people who have more experience that 00:27:18.015 --> 00:27:22.590 can give me other ideas, but mostly it feels intimidating because it's like, 00:27:22.590 --> 00:27:23.700 okay, we're going to try this thing. 00:27:23.910 --> 00:27:25.740 If this doesn't work, we're going to try this other thing. 00:27:25.770 --> 00:27:28.170 Like I have a whole laundry list of, of ideas. 00:27:28.545 --> 00:27:31.425 Michele: You know, you need to do marketing now and you kind 00:27:31.425 --> 00:27:34.995 of, eat like, you know what some of the things you can do, right? 00:27:34.995 --> 00:27:39.735 Like, you know, you know, you need to send an email tomorrow, which is actually 00:27:40.215 --> 00:27:42.385 last Friday, hashtag back to the future. 00:27:42.492 --> 00:27:42.822 Right. 00:27:42.822 --> 00:27:45.882 you know, you need to send that email and like, you know, we're 00:27:45.882 --> 00:27:49.304 talking about like different types of media and like, for it, you know, 00:27:49.304 --> 00:27:50.324 trying to get people to cover it. 00:27:50.324 --> 00:27:53.144 And like, is easier, I think, to, to like riff on those ideas. 00:27:53.144 --> 00:27:56.924 And you at least have a place to start with versus for simple file upload. 00:27:56.924 --> 00:27:59.372 It was where do I go? 00:27:59.492 --> 00:28:02.462 Like, Hmm, what, what is here? 00:28:02.492 --> 00:28:05.762 It was almost like you were in like Janet's void from the good place. 00:28:05.792 --> 00:28:08.514 I feel like I've mentioned Janet's void from the good place before. 00:28:08.514 --> 00:28:12.900 But, and you were just kind of just like standing there, like in what 00:28:12.900 --> 00:28:18.390 felt like nothing and everything at the same time, which is very scary. 00:28:18.892 --> 00:28:21.832 Colleen: uh, yeah, so I think that it's been great. 00:28:21.862 --> 00:28:26.062 I mean, it has unlocked so many opportunities for me and also just 00:28:26.562 --> 00:28:28.602 having so much more confidence. 00:28:28.932 --> 00:28:30.912 Just knowing different things you can do. 00:28:30.912 --> 00:28:33.852 Like you said, just, just having the knowledge of, okay, 00:28:33.882 --> 00:28:34.752 what does this look like? 00:28:34.752 --> 00:28:35.892 What does marketing look like? 00:28:35.922 --> 00:28:37.572 I don't know, but we can figure it out. 00:28:38.042 --> 00:28:41.792 Michele: You know, you can figure it out at this point versus 00:28:41.792 --> 00:28:44.852 before you didn't necessarily know that you could figure it out. 00:28:45.942 --> 00:28:46.422 Colleen: Totally. 00:28:47.625 --> 00:28:50.175 Michele: Well, I guess I should let you get back to 00:28:50.175 --> 00:28:53.228 work and, uh, write that email. 00:28:53.258 --> 00:28:56.018 Oh, we know no it's launching Thursday, right? 00:28:56.858 --> 00:29:00.428 No tomorrow, is not Friday. 00:29:00.925 --> 00:29:01.495 Colleen: Correct. 00:29:01.525 --> 00:29:02.935 You do have your days of the week wrong. 00:29:02.965 --> 00:29:05.575 I just didn't correct you because I know it's really late there. 00:29:05.785 --> 00:29:06.025 That's 00:29:06.145 --> 00:29:08.305 Michele: my brain is not working. 00:29:08.305 --> 00:29:09.055 Like I can. 00:29:09.115 --> 00:29:09.505 Yeah. 00:29:10.005 --> 00:29:10.665 Um, okay. 00:29:11.318 --> 00:29:13.938 I'll let you get back to work for your launch. 00:29:14.498 --> 00:29:21.878 Everybody go to hammer stone.dev, if you use Laravel Nova, buy it. 00:29:22.118 --> 00:29:24.188 .If you don't use Laravel Nova. 00:29:24.748 --> 00:29:25.448 Nova. 00:29:25.888 --> 00:29:26.998 Please tweet about it. 00:29:27.508 --> 00:29:30.328 Um, help Colleen out here. 00:29:30.359 --> 00:29:33.869 And also if you want to sponsor this podcast, go to your software 00:29:33.869 --> 00:29:37.599 social, software social.dev/sponsor. 00:29:37.599 --> 00:29:41.379 And I should, I should honestly go to bed because I'm recovering from COVID. 00:29:41.409 --> 00:29:42.669 My brain is not working. 00:29:42.669 --> 00:29:47.259 I sound like a frog this podcast, ends now. 00:29:47.759 --> 00:29:51.659 Hey everyone, um a little addendum to today's episode. 00:29:51.959 --> 00:29:56.399 So as you know, we've been really thinking a lot about sponsors for this 00:29:56.399 --> 00:29:59.759 podcast over the past couple of months, trying to find something that really 00:30:00.239 --> 00:30:05.486 works, feels right for us, and covers the costs of making this podcast. 00:30:05.970 --> 00:30:11.190 It costs us about $250 a month to produce an edit and host and 00:30:11.249 --> 00:30:12.449 everything that goes into this. 00:30:12.550 --> 00:30:21.353 And, so we have decided to shift to a community sponsor model where our 00:30:21.353 --> 00:30:24.224 listeners will be funding this podcast. 00:30:24.233 --> 00:30:29.481 We will still also do occasional, highly curated sponsored episodes. 00:30:29.594 --> 00:30:31.514 But those will be very infrequent. 00:30:32.964 --> 00:30:37.867 But basically the idea is that our listeners, you can 00:30:37.867 --> 00:30:39.307 help us keep the lights on. 00:30:39.311 --> 00:30:41.904 And we think we found something that, that might actually be a good 00:30:41.904 --> 00:30:46.765 fit because so what we're going to do is for either $10 a month or a 00:30:46.765 --> 00:30:51.470 hundred bucks a year, you can become a software social community supporter. 00:30:51.470 --> 00:30:59.154 And what this gets you is a shout-out at the end of the show and a link 00:30:59.184 --> 00:31:03.295 from the show notes on our website and on the podcast platforms. 00:31:03.325 --> 00:31:07.145 And if you're an annual sponsor, you'll also get a shout out on the 00:31:07.146 --> 00:31:09.096 supporters page on the website as well. 00:31:10.156 --> 00:31:13.276 And we're, we're pretty excited about this because we feel like it's sort of a 00:31:13.276 --> 00:31:18.973 triple win, um, where you get a podcast that doesn't have any pre-roll ads in 00:31:18.973 --> 00:31:22.543 the beginning of it, which it turns out most podcast listeners skip anyway. 00:31:22.543 --> 00:31:25.373 So that, that doesn't feel great, but so no ads at the beginning. 00:31:25.373 --> 00:31:30.683 And we're keeping the show going, but then you also get to promote your business. 00:31:31.043 --> 00:31:33.443 Um, so the way a lot of people have done this so far is, you know, it's, 00:31:33.503 --> 00:31:35.033 so-and-so from so-and-so company. 00:31:35.033 --> 00:31:38.543 And so you can link to your Twitter and you can also link to your business. 00:31:38.963 --> 00:31:44.283 So basically we get money to keep the podcast going and you get SEO benefits. 00:31:44.283 --> 00:31:46.685 So there's really feels like a win for everybody. 00:31:47.439 --> 00:31:56.182 And you can go to software social dot dev slash supporters to become a supporter. 00:31:56.182 --> 00:32:00.680 I am uh, Recording this as of Saturday morning, April 30th. 00:32:00.735 --> 00:32:05.038 And so as of right now, we have 30 supporters, which is amazing. 00:32:05.038 --> 00:32:10.873 And so I will do our first shout out, so software social is brought to you 00:32:10.933 --> 00:32:17.653 by Chris, from chipper CI the daringly handsome Kevin Griffin, Mike from 00:32:17.683 --> 00:32:23.823 gently used domains, Dave from recut, Max of onlineornot, Stefan from talk 00:32:23.823 --> 00:32:29.713 to Stephan, Brendan Andrade of bright bits, Aaron from tuple, Alex Hillman 00:32:29.713 --> 00:32:36.313 from the tiny MBA, Ramy from memo.fm, Jane and Benedikt from userlist, 00:32:36.493 --> 00:32:43.363 Kendall Morgan, Ruben Gamez of signwell, Cory Haines of swipewell, Mike Wade 00:32:43.363 --> 00:32:49.063 of crowd sentury, Nate Ritter of room steals, and Anna Maste of subscribe 00:32:49.063 --> 00:32:56.003 sense, Geoff Roberts of Outseta, Justin Jackson from MegaMaker, Jack Ellis and 00:32:56.003 --> 00:33:02.363 Paul Jarvis from fathom analytics, Matthew from appointment reminder, Andrew Culver 00:33:02.453 --> 00:33:09.353 at bullet train, John Koster, Alex of corso systems, Richard from stunning, 00:33:10.193 --> 00:33:12.953 Michael Koper of nusii proposals, 00:33:13.456 --> 00:33:19.701 Arvid Kahl, James Sowers from castaway.fm, Nathan of develop 00:33:19.701 --> 00:33:22.221 your UX, and Jessica Malnik. 00:33:22.718 --> 00:33:29.378 Thank you so much to all of our supporters and you can become a supporter to 00:33:29.408 --> 00:33:32.858 at software social.dev/supporters.