Chris: Everything is extremely, extremely fresh with us. This has been going on and off for our whole relationship. I've always had a problem with lying. A lot of childhood issues that I had carried on into adulthood. My wife was asking me some questions.
Those questions were very hard to answer, but the truth came out. And so now we're just on the path to heal and figure out those things.
Brandon: Well, we want to welcome you back to the Grounded Union podcast. We have Chris and Jessica with us for a live call in for season three. We've been talking to couples going through similar things you could be working on. And our hope in these episodes is to give you some encouragement as we're talking with couples in the process right now in the healing process, some are feeling really low. Some are facing a lot of stuff.
So Chris and Jessica, it's an honor to have you guys on. Why healing? Why now? What's top of mind and what's the focus for you two right now?
Chris: Everything is extremely, extremely fresh with us. You know, this happened. This has been going on and off for our whole relationship. You know, our healing journey. You know, it's something that was discussed.
My wife and I were talking on the November 13 and she felt something wasn't right. And so I have also been on in a process of seeing a therapist. And one of the things that I was talking to my therapist was about was my lying issues. I've always had a problem with lying. And so my therapist said that I needed to work on that.
It was time to man up, be a man and to the root of those issues, a lot of childhood issues that I had carried on into adulthood. And so my wife was asking me some questions and you know, those questions were very hard to answer, but the truth came out. And so now we're just on the path to heal and figure out those things.
Brandon: Okay. Okay. Chris, if you could do me a favor and tell me what specifically those things are.
Chris: Yeah. So so I was having issues with watching pornography and masturbating while I was away from my wife. And then also watching inappropriate reels while I was on Facebook. Facebook is a very dangerous place. So, you know, she felt like she's always questioned, are you doing stuff on your phone that you're not supposed to be doing?
Like she's always had had like a feeling about it. And it's always been like, no, I'm not. You know, I'm not doing anything on my phone. I'm not supposed to. When in reality, that wasn't the truth.
Brandon: Okay. Mhmm. And that was that was this was in November, mid November you guys had this conversation?
Chris: November 13 was the conversation.
Caitlyn: Okay. Just like exactly a month ago almost. Yeah.
Brandon: Yeah. Yeah. We're One month ago. Yeah. We're not quite yeah.
Okay. Thank you, Chris, for sharing that with us. Of course. Jessica, what's going on in your world and over the last month?
Jessica: Just devastated. It's like something you think is your worst fear, and then, you know, he was very good at lying. It was very, very well hidden. But I guess I had sort of a gut feeling. And when he finally admitted it, it was almost like it felt like he was still lying almost because it was so hard to believe that he was like saying those words to me.
He was very good at hiding it. He was very believable and he it was hard. It's hard to unpack the layers of like the behaviors that went into hiding the lie. I mean, really like if you had asked anyone in our life, they were like Chris would never do anything like that. You know, he was so proud about he, you know, he spoke openly about not being for those things.
Like, he talked about being against him. So it was just a lot of you realize a lot of lies that were going into hiding something like that.
Brandon: How many times would you say you had con confronted him or shared concerns over the course of your relationship?
Jessica: Well, it's you know, when we first started dating, this was his rule was, you know, no porn, no masturbating. You know, we come to each other for those things. Mhmm. And so, you know, it's always been something in the back of my mind, but we've always also had conversations about it. Like, it hasn't been a rule we made and then never readdressed.
So that's hard also because we've had conversations. We've talked with other people about this. So it's been something through our whole relationship. There's been countless conversations, me asking, things like that. Yeah, it's it's been something we've had countless conversations about even to other people.
Like I said, he was part really made it part of his personality to be like against things like that. So it was really hard.
Caitlyn: Okay. So you've been married since you had shared Off Air. You guys have been married since 2019, just to give a little backstory for everyone listening. And you're just now finding out, this is about six years later. So six years into it, you're just now finding out about addiction.
And also to give a little context, I'm assuming you must have found out right at the end of your pregnancy, if not when you're freshly postpartum. Is that right? Because you have a six week old baby?
Jessica: Yes. He was about two and a half weeks old.
Caitlyn: Yes. Okay. So you're fine. You just gave birth. You have a two week old baby, and you're just now finding out about this addiction that's been a part of your marriage the entire time.
Is that right?
Jessica: Yes. He says it's been something he struggled with our whole relationship.
Caitlyn: Okay. Wow. And then Chris, do you know when this when did your addiction begin for you? I like to always take everyone back, especially when you're fresh in this, which you guys are the freshest of anyone we've interviewed at this point. When did this all when was your first sexual experience or sexual exposure?
Have you been able to trace that all the way back yet?
Chris: So I have been following the old seven step program and this was something that I recently came across. So I have done a little bit of digging. You know, my first exposure to pornography was probably when I was about five years old. My grandfather at the time, had Playboy magazines on the back of the toilet. And me and my cousin at the time found them.
And it was always like something that we would sneak in there and look at because we knew we weren't supposed to look at them. And then when I was a young teen and a teenager, I had a very abusive stepmother. And it was kind of like a secret release for me. Like I would go in my room and, you know, watch porn and masturbate in my own room. So that probably happened like my whole teenage years.
And then I had something that I'm having trouble, like really gathering and still trying to explore that is like when it started coming back or, you know, when it actually started in Jess and I's relationship. And something else that I'm, that Jess is struggling with is like the frequency of it happening. This isn't like something that was happening daily or weekly or monthly or even like every other month. It was kind of something that just happened. And I'm not trying to minimize It it happened so sporadically that, you know, the porn and the masturbation.
The Facebook reels happened a lot more frequent than the porn and masturbation. But the actual porn and masturbation was probably like somewhere every three to four months max sometimes. So it's all still very fresh and all still very, in the discovery stages, I would say.
Brandon: I think I, I appreciate it. I can tell that you, I feel like you want to see more of like understanding your own story. And I also want in this moment as you're still, we'll call it coming out of the clouds because anytime we've had a significant concealing of a part of us, some information, we are. We have to kind of blind ourselves to the, to the reality of it. And so anytime we're talking about frequency, your mind, just from this like beginning few weeks is going to tell you it was less than it was more to protect you from the pain, because let's just say that let's just assume that like you already kind of alluded to that you went to porn masturbation, we'll call it dissociation, fantasy, whatever this was when you were hurting was that was the blueprint.
That was the that's how it all started for you when you were a child. Well, right now you're not going to be able to see it clearly at first. And that's kind of, I would say that for Jessica, she's already got this like scary journey she's going on to understanding. And for you, what I would be really open to Chris is actually accepting that you can't see clearly right now, because if you did see clearly you would have come clean a long time prior, which you're in good company because I didn't ever come clean. Kaelin just caught me and caught me lying and then had to dissect my lies.
So that's why we're so big on this is I don't want your wife. I don't want Jessica to have to pry you open and get you to see clearly. I want you to be able to go on that journey because when you do it, it accelerates the healing process for yourself and for Jessica. Cause if she doesn't feel like she has to like turn up the pain for you to take this seriously, then it aids both of you in healing. So the first thing I would tell you is don't assume anything right now.
Be incredibly curious as to how big of a place this occupied in your life, because it's probably bigger than, than you can perceive right now. And that's okay because this isn't about finding out how naughty Chris was. This is like the line in the sand moment where you're saying, this was destroying me and it was destroying my marriage, and I'm ready to see clearly. Just know that clarity will come at some surprises along the way as well.
Caitlyn: Mhmm. I also like to add, I have a couple things here. First, when we have to use a I'm not minimizing or I'm not doing this, it's normally because there's something within us that that knows that potentially we are minimizing, right? And so a different languaging here, and this comes a lot as you get into your body and go through the embodiment aspects that are inside of the app that you guys are in, is the more you're in the your body, the more you can go, oh wow, this is all really fresh. So I think that I looked at pornography once every three to four months.
Yet I know I've been lying to myself and to you for six years. So there could be a lot more that I discovered. Do you see the difference there for Jessica even of, I know for sure sweetie, and trust me I I went through this with Brandon, I know for sure sweetie it was one time I did that. I have I have notes because I four have 100 journal entries. I have notes where I'm like, you told me you never did this and he would carry that that lie for months until we'd crack it open and it's like that thing he said he never did, he had done all the time.
Why was he able to carry that lie? Because you first lie to yourself. Right? And so right now, like Brandon's saying, you only see the tip of the iceberg. This isn't to scare you.
This is to enlighten you to the reality of the life you had chosen. So it's like if you understand like, oh, I don't see very clearly right now, your body is gonna open up and go, I'll help you see clearly. When you go, thank you body for just telling me, thank you body and mind soul for just telling me that I looked at porn. I'm not that could be accurate. You're that could be true.
And it could not be. If you tell your body like, thank you. You told me we only did it once every four to six months. We're good to go. Then your body's like, okay, that's fine.
I'll keep all the rest of that tucked away. You don't wanna see that, right? When you say, okay, I think it was once every couple months, maybe there's more, your body goes, I am happy. Your mind, I should say instead of body, both, your mind goes, I am happy to show you the rest that you don't see right now. You see the differences there?
So as you're in this state of healing, instead of going, I know for sure it was this, you're gonna stay open. Right now this is what I see. Right now this is what I remember. Right now this is all I can picture or understand. Body, mind, I'm open to you revealing the actual truth to me right now because your mind wants to show you the truth.
Mhmm. You've led it through a whole bunch of denial structures to where it's kept you safe from seeing the full truth. So the more you tell yourself, I am safe to know the truth Yeah. The more you'll actually begin to see clearly. This is really the only way to actually healing, is seeing everything clearly.
Another thing I wanna point out that I heard in your story and languaging that I wanna bring up and you can share a little more context on, is you said that when you were a child that you you had a unhealthy home with a stepmother, and that you your languaging was that you would use your room to escape to look at pornography and to masturbate. Right? I heard you in the beginning when you were sharing, you said that you would look at pornography and masturbate when you were away. And And I wanted you to share a little bit more about what that looks like. I'm assuming maybe this is work trips or something.
What I wanted to create a connection for here, and this is what we invite you to do in all the first seasons of our podcast, is look at the similarities here. Right? So you're a child that needs reprieve from something difficult, so you're going away, right, to your own almost cave, your own room, your own area where you have your porn and your masturbation. Now you're an adult in a relationship with children and you're going away, see the similarities there? I'm going away, you said, you know, when I'm away, so I'm not sure you can give some context of what where you're going.
You're going away and you're having the same it's a pattern. It's a pattern you created. When I'm away, I look at porn and I masturbate because that's how I give myself fuel, energy, emotions, dopamine hits to be able to go back into real life and feel a a sense of like, okay, I guess I can make it through life. So maybe share a little bit with us. I would love to hear the context of when you looked at pornography, when you masturbated, you're saying right now what you can see, it was infrequent as in a couple times a year.
And you had mentioned that it was when you were away. So maybe give us a little bit of story with that.
Chris: Yes. So it mostly just happened when I was out of the house, you know, when I was separated from my wife, whenever that would be. Whether it was like a work trip or, you know, just random times. It wasn't really like a thing that happened on a pattern.
Brandon: Okay. And then how often do you go on work trips?
Chris: Okay. So the place that I went and looked at pornography, was mostly the bathroom at my workplace.
Caitlyn: Mhmm. So you'd be at work away from your spouse. And you're saying though it only happened a couple times a year. What sparked this like? What would make you feel like, okay, today's the day.
It's been four months, I'm going to the bathroom at work, I'm gonna look at pornography and masturbate.
Chris: That's kind of something I'm still trying to figure out also. The the thing that I feel like that was more of a struggle was viewing the inappropriate social media reels. Was more frequent. That was more of like, I would be on Facebook scrolling to see what everybody else in my life was doing. I would see a thumbnail for a video.
I would say, oh, let's click on this video. Or I would just be scrolling through other videos and happen upon an inappropriate reel that I should have skipped. And I would just linger on that a little bit too long and view the content that I shouldn't have been
Caitlyn: seeing. Okay.
Brandon: Okay.
Caitlyn: That makes sense. So frequently when you went to the bathroom, it's like, okay, I'm just gonna scroll social media. Then it's kinda like, oh, whoops. How did I end up at all this inappropriate content? And then you're saying less frequently, yet occasionally, it would end up taking you to a rabbit hole to pornography and masturbation.
I'm gonna say here, the puzzle piece to a lot of your healing and understanding is gonna be knowing exactly when you did that, and exactly why you did that. And your brain might now might be like, there's no way in the world I could do that. And I'm here to tell you, you absolutely can. Because you can remember, you told me you were exposed to pornography at the age of five. How old are you?
Chris: I'm 28.
Caitlyn: 28. So that was you have a memory from how many years? 23. You have a memory from twenty three years ago. So I guarantee you, you can remember why you looked at porn and when you looked at porn from the last six years and you can even go back further.
Your brain will bring that up. It feels comfortable and safe to allow it. It to that you have allowed it to do that. Because all this time right now, it's like, okay, I'm looking at these reels, I'm looking at porn, I'm masturbating, and you're tucking it behind some sort of narrative or belief system, so you feel good about yourself, not needing you probably actually haven't felt that great about yourself, but you feel good not needing to come bring that to your wife's attention. Right?
So now what you're doing to heal is like going back into all of these narratives and patterns and beliefs and going, what did I store behind all of these lies so that I can actually see clearly? Because you have to know what it was that you were feeling or wanting to feel in those moments so that you can know what your soul is craving and crying out for. Because you were searching for something and you were going to these counterfeit options and right now you're kinda feeling like, oh, maybe it's okay if I don't know fully why I did it or when I did it. And really, your healing is on the other side of fully understanding every aspect about your life.
Brandon: It might feel kinda disturbing or dirty. Be like, why I don't really wanna know why I went there. Like, wasn't thinking about my wife and kids. I wasn't thinking about my own well-being. I don't really want to see that.
And what Caitlyn's speaking clearly to is I think once you acknowledge that you because what's going on is your soul's not crying out for porn or women in bikinis dancing or doing whatever is going on on social media. The the soul cry isn't that, which I think a lot of men and women that struggle with unwanted sexual behavior are afraid that deep down their soul craves something evil and bad that they could never fulfill if they were honest with themselves. And I think one of the most healing things about exploring your story with curiosity is not only is there, there's not some sort of evil desire tucked away deep down. It's actually a very innocent, pure desire to feel whole, to feel alive, to feel connected. And I think that's the, we just did it on, on this last week's coaching call from when this airs, it'll be a couple of weeks ago, but we were talking about, detoxing from dopamine.
Everybody said if they had detoxed from their relationship from being like scrolling on their phones for ninety days, what would they feel more of in their relationship? And it was connection was what everybody was saying is they would feel more connection. So it's probably fair to say, Chris, that at your core, while you're alone in the bathroom stall, scrolling on your phone, deep down, you long to feel connected to those you love. You long to feel good about yourself. You long to feel purpose.
And so the good news is although right now you're brain, you're emotionally, you might feel a little, a little numb, little checked out, little overwhelmed on where to even start. The good news is all of this is going to take you to feeling more connected to yourself, to your body, to your emotions, more connected to Jessica, more connected to your kids and more connected to the present moment. The path there means looking at, like Caitlyn said, it means looking at what your soul was actually crying out for. And to do that, you have to get really curious. And so I meant to preface earlier as we're like picking apart your language, it's not like, we're not like shaming you at all.
It's more of these were the exact phrases I used. Yep. Even like using comparison where you're like the Facebook was more than the porn because that feels bad, bad dirt. It feels better doesn't have a d, but I'm saying it with a d. That feels less harmful because everybody scrolls Facebook.
Right? Not everybody watches hardcore porn and jerks off in the in the bathroom stall. That sounds a little more intense. Don't even worry about sugarcoating it right now. Cause I even told Caitlyn, as we were exploring my story, I was like, I never watched this type of porn.
And then as we were exploring my history, was like, I guess I watched a fair amount of that type of porn. And I act and I wasn't even aware of that because I had told myself, I only watch this type of porn. And we started having more conversations and became aware of, I guess I watched some of that. So don't don't worry about saying I've I never did this, or I only watched porn twice last year Mhmm. Because that could be wrong.
So Mhmm. You'll save you and Jessica some unneeded turmoil by just saying, you know what? I'm going to look at my story. I'm going to get curious.
Caitlyn: Mhmm.
Brandon: I wanna ask Jessica a question here, which was Jessica, kinda looking into the future, you've just been given this very devastating news that Chris hasn't been living in alignment with what he's been saying. That brings up pain in many different ways. I wanna know what what do you hope to see happen for Chris, but also for your relationship? What, like, you're obviously still with him. What is your hope that would come out of him pursuing healing in this area?
Jessica: That's a little bit of a tricky question for me because, you know, I I'm struggling with staying. Mhmm.
Brandon: Be be brutally honest with us. You can do that.
Jessica: If we didn't have a newborn, I don't think I would still be here. I feel a little stuck in a season just because this is not like, I feel like I married someone I don't know. Like I said, it was such he made it, you know, I feel like I chose him because he was so outwardly and proud against things like that. And it's hard to know that, like, that was just all a lie. And if it was just like, you know, like, he faked his personality, almost, it feels like.
Yeah. And like I said earlier, you know, this was something we touched on all the time. We talked about frequently. It was not something that we kind of never addressed the elephant in the room. Like, you know, he'd been accused of it multiple times.
Like, he
Caitlyn: had
Jessica: been we had we talked about it. We've talked to my friends about it who have gone through this and he supported them through this, which it's just like hard to know that he was there for them while doing it to me. So right now, I I'm just struggling with what I want to do. Yeah. Yeah.
I'm trying for our children, but it's a little hard. It feels like a lot of a lot of my life was just lived based on a lie.
Caitlyn: Yeah. Your world feels like it just got flipped upside down, especially with how fresh all of this is and feeling like everything it almost feels like, yeah, you married someone that's not actually the person you're married to. So then you're like, do I even actually wanna be married to you? And then you look at the creation, the three creations that you guys have made together, and it's like, this is worth fighting for and at the same time, this is excruciatingly painful. Like, do I even know you?
I remember I used to think like, I don't even know what the healed you looks like because I thought I had married the healed you. That wasn't you. That was the lying you. So like, do I even like the healed you? Can you even heal?
What does that even look like? It's like you're you're almost feel like you're in a tornado just spinning and spinning and spinning and it's like hard to know where to turn to. And so I think where I wanna take it from here is like you guys are at, like Jessica's saying, which it's great to hear from you. This is a pivotal moment, right? Because some people like to throw shade and be like, oh, what we encourage is so radical, right?
And it's like, your relationship is ending, right? If things don't get figured out, that's radical. So like anything I suggest, anything I recommend, that we recommend, that Chris, you do, and that you do together, it's like, it's not even as close to as radical as the entire relationship crumbling and falling apart. Know, having an addiction and a life of lies and secrets for decades, that's pretty radical, right? So it's like, what we're about to recommend, I wanna take you the screen route because Chris, it sounds like you've had a really deep dopamine screen addiction as well as obviously there's sexual brokenness in here.
What is your relationship with screens right now? I know you guys are consuming some of our podcast. You're inside of our app. Have you guys gotten rid of TVs? Chris, I'm mainly talking to you.
Have you guys gotten rid of TVs, movies, shows, social media, news, podcasts, all this stuff? What's that looking like for you right now?
Chris: So for me, I have completely, like, basically locked down my phone. Like, when I'm not near my wife, I don't get on Safari or Google Chrome or any browsers. I do work at a computer for work. You know, I can't get on anything like inappropriate while I'm at work. All social media is gone.
Pretty much the only social media I consumed was YouTube and Facebook. And so YouTube is deleted off my phone. Facebook's deleted off my phone. I actually deleted my Facebook account. And I've tried, you know, deleting Facebook off my phone before.
And then I found myself getting on Facebook through messenger. I found myself getting on Facebook through my mobile browser. So I kind of made the decision with Jess, with Jess and with my therapist to delete my Facebook account. I kind of felt like that was an important step in like the whole healing process, because if it's gone, I can't go back to it. And something that, you know, my wife has even said is like, let's not do anything that you're not willing to do for the rest of your life.
So I even told my wife, if you want me to get a flip phone, like let's, let's do it. Right? Like if that proves, if that gives like some trust, if I can earn back like a sliver of trust, like I'll do that. So we do daily phone check ins with screen time. I think the last time I checked today, I've used my phone for about an hour.
Well, probably a little bit over an hour because my therapy was today and that, that was an hour long. So probably a little bit more than an hour. But before this whole process, was sitting at like six to eight hours every day. And now it's down to like one, maybe one and a half a day, kinda depending on if we travel or, you know, what I have going on during the day. But it's it has severely been cut down.
Caitlyn: What about TV, shows, movies, that kind of entertainment?
Chris: TV shows, you know, we have three kids. So they will watch TV shows, and I'll have it on in the background. But I just try to not pay attention to it. And I don't watch any TV shows after the kids go to bed. I don't you know, I'm a I'm a real big gamer, so I haven't played video games since the thirteenth or around that time either.
You know, mostly most of my screen time is
Brandon: just while I'm at work.
Caitlyn: Okay. Here's my encouragement for you guys, and then you've got something good to say is, I think right now with how extreme the situation is, and for a lot of you, a lot of people that are listening, they're in the exact same shoes as you, and I want them to hear this too. This isn't really something that you dabble with. It's like, take the TVs off your your kids. You shared the ages.
They're almost six, two, three ish, and six weeks old. They actually don't need screens. We have, at the time of this recording, eight, six, three year old, and a one and a half year old, and they've lived ten years without screens, and they're thriving. They don't know what it's like to be bored. They don't they don't know a life with screens, with entertainment.
And so your family actually is gonna shoot from down here super low, plummeting up to like living life to its fullest potential right now. As you heal, as you heal together, the TV on in the background isn't serving anybody. Even if it's non sexual content, it's noise. So what's happening when you get the noise in here is that you can't hear or see clearly anymore, right? So even in your languaging, it's incredible to get rid of all those things.
Yeah, you've probably tried that with times. You've probably tried like, I'm gonna grit down, like you said, I'm gonna get rid of my Facebook. I'm gonna do this. It's like you can find even though you deleted your Facebook, you can find a way back on your Facebook. You can get on someone else's Facebook.
You can do whatever the freak you wanna do to get that fixed. Right? It's not necessarily about just emptying, it's about what are we filling in. So it's you're not on Facebook, you still have all the TV noise in the background, even if it feels like it's not that much of the day, you're just taking away from your time to be together with your spouse, be together with your kids, or be by yourself to hear your thoughts, to be able to see, oh, I forgot about that memory. Oh, I forgot about that time.
Oh my gosh, I feel anxious right now. I don't know what to do when I feel anxious because I'm so used to scrolling or having noise or having something on. So it's like, it's not only about getting rid of things, it's about filling it in with time together, time out in nature, time doing things that really helps you come back home to yourself and comes back alive. If you felt alive, vibrant, whole, like you loved and enjoyed your life, you wouldn't have ever turned to pornography, right? So you're gonna go back, your homework after this episodes ends, is I want you to go back, I want you to remember each time you went and looked at pornography and masturbated, and I want you to remember why you did that.
And the the way you're gonna be able to unlock those memories is by actually getting rid of all of that entertainment. So it sounds like you've gotten rid of social media, YouTube, video games, those are incredible. I'm talking about news, TV shows, any I don't even care if it's kids stuff. It's all about coming back home to yourself, quieting the noise in the house. Your entire family is going to upgrade and heal from this.
This could be thirty, forty five days that you take where it's just like, you know what? Don't care if it's snowing or raining sideways. Instead of watching shows, we're gonna go for a walk outside. Instead of watching shows, we're gonna light a candle and play a game. We're gonna get out some puzzles.
We're gonna get out some kids books. Like, we're gonna be together, laugh You know, my wife's gonna take the kids for a walk, and I'm gonna sit and journal until my fingers hurt because I wanna remember everything I forgot and tried to forget to lie and hide and protect myself. I don't wanna live that way anymore. I wanna see clearly and I wanna heal clearly and I wanna be honest and transparent and I wanna come alive. Like, this is the difference of the life that I'm painting.
So when we get off of here, it's like, get rid of the TVs, put them in the garage if you need to, turn them off, unplug them, put a blanket over them. I don't care what you do, just have those be gone for thirty days, continue with the rest of the detox ing. And I want you to look back at your life story. You've you've listened to a couple of our episodes, you're inside the app, and for those of you that are following along, you know that the meat and potatoes of what we teach is there's that you're looking at your whole story with honesty here. And what you're coming up against when you do that is your denial structure.
So you're daily reminding yourself, I'm safe to actually see clearly. I'm safe to remember this. You want to continue to let the flow to to let the flood almost come Mhmm. And rush over you and then rush through you. It's like all of the memories, once you turn them on, it's kinda like a hose where you can turn it on.
You can turn it on just a little sprinkle and get just a little bit of memories. You can turn it on medium or you can turn it on full blast. And that hose of memories will pour out if you're actually in a position where you're open and ready and willing to see those clearly. You're gonna see your memories and you're gonna go through the 4R's to rewire those. In your state of healing right now, Jessica, you even said like, if I can just earn an ounce of trust.
That's not the emphasis or the goal here. Don't try to win back any of her trust right now. That's putting all of your energy in the wrong facet, right? She doesn't trust you, rightfully so. Because for your entire marriage until about thirty days ago, she hasn't known the truth.
So more let's remove that as the the as the goal right now. Trust, I always like to say, trust comes naturally as you heal. You won't have to try to like, oh, do you trust me babe? Do you trust me today? Okay.
Can I do something to earn back your chest? No. She's gonna be like, woah, look at this new man I'm married to. Of course I trust you. Look at you.
You wake up and do your embodiment. You're done being addicted to your screen and you're actually looking at me, playing with our kids, going out outside for a walk, taking care of your physical body. Oh my gosh, you're actually sitting me down every single day to tell me the truth about all these memories you're having and all the things that you've rewired through the four hours. Like, that's a man that's trustworthy. Yeah.
Oftentimes is built off of actions seen, not words spoken. So you can speak all the words you want and say, look, I deleted my Facebook, but she doesn't know that you aren't just gonna re upload a new Facebook. Right? It's like, I wouldn't trust that. Nobody would trust that.
What she can trust though is thirty days from now, you've gotten up every day, done your embodiment, taking care of your body, gotten off your screens, gone through the four hours every single night. Those are actions she can trust. And your entire brain and being will completely transform when you do that day in and day out, and then you don't have to fight for trust. Trust is just naturally restored and built when those actions become the foundation of your day.
Brandon: Chris, what do you think about yourself as a man, as a husband? How do you what's the self talk?
Chris: Man, the self talk about when when all this first started was was really rough. Like, just you're an idiot. Like, why did you lie to your wife for so long? Like, why why are you like the the thing I struggle with is following in my dad's footsteps because he did the same exact thing that I'm doing and is divorced and has been remarried three times. And this is the reason why he's gotten a divorce three times.
Caitlyn: Wow.
Chris: And so that's the thing I struggle with the most because I have tried to be different than, than the way I was raised. It even comes to the point where like, I see myself disciplining my kids like I was disciplined by my dad. And it was really unhealthy at first, but now it has gotten a little, a little better, but it is still, it's still rough when you hear your wife saying like, is the most hurt I've ever been in my life. And it feels like it's all your fault.
Jessica: Never said that.
Caitlyn: That's valid if you did say that.
Brandon: That's valid. Yeah. It
Chris: feeling like it's all your fault because it it is all your fault. And you you did these actions. So it's time to face the music. It wasn't good for a while. I'm working on, you know, getting a better self image of myself.
I do feel like my self image of myself is part of the reason why I was dealing with what I was dealing with. Because I've never really felt good about myself. I've always kind of struggled with that.
Brandon: What do you not like about who you are?
Chris: You know, I've never felt proud about how much I lie. I never felt proud about, you know, how I've how I've done things in my life. Like how I've, you know, lied to my wife and how I've hidden my addictions and how I've hidden what I viewed in my private time. And now that I'm being open my with my wife, I do feel better, but it's it's still not where I think it should be.
Brandon: Okay. One of the most empowering things is you know what you don't like. You don't wanna be like dad. You don't wanna lie. And I think, you know, what doesn't feel good?
You know, what you've not enjoyed about your previous life decisions inside of the app, you have access to the grounded intimacy program. So get started on that. And Jessica, there's resources in there for, for you as the betrayed spouse from Caitlyn, where she shares some of her journal entries and her processing and how to heal and be supported. So I'd really encourage you guys to dive into that. It's going to give you a day by day process of what to do.
As you begin to one, see the magnitude of how deeply the addiction like stole from you and stole from your wife, like this, just no, it's not the like you against the addiction. It's you saying like, basically mine, please show me all of this so I can see it so I can clear it and create the new thing. In the process, that's going to bring up clear pain for Jessica to understand in graphs and grapple with her reality, her new reality. So she gets to heal and you get to support her healing by not minimizing or shutting her process down or even having to make any excuses for it. And I would remove this, this word.
And we talked about, you know, whose fault was it? You know, it's your fault that you hurt your wife. It's your responsibility to help your wife heal. It was your daddy's fault for doing a shitty job raising you for not empowering you with the love and nurture you needed to be a healthy young man. We're gonna really, but he's not here to help Jessica heal.
Your dad's not gonna be the one to do it. So what you're doing is you're saying to this ends here, this, this way of my, in my DNA, I'm going to actually create health and vitality in a connected relationship by looking at everything that was taking away from that. And so what I want you to do is every time you rewire a thought and you'll read about the 4R's inside of the, the grounded intimacy program, but that's the process of recognizing that the thought or action existed, receiving peace in your body, that that columns your body down in your brain, down to actually rewire that pattern. You release it. Whenever I think about releasing an old pattern, you're just like putting it putting it on a little floaty on the river and letting it go away.
And then the replacing is when you actually create the life you want to create. You create the man you want to become. You create the relationship that you want to have. So what I want you to consider is there's been a lot that's done to you. There's been a ways you viewed yourself and the simple act of rewiring each and every thought that comes up, thoughts about yourself, about Jessica, thoughts about what you've done.
When you digest those and speak out the new man you want to become. That's actually all you have to do. But because you've done all these bad things, we'll call them bad things and it's all your fault, which you're responsible. You'll think that you are only worthy of a subpar life or a lesser quality life, but a man that that is trying to live a low quality life isn't going to do the work to heal. But a man that believes he has a great future in front of him, a man that's going to leave a legacy and, and love and care for his wife until you guys grow old together.
That man will do the work. That man will wake up excited to see his past because he knows his past was the old him that he's going to heal and transform that he can become this new man. So I want you to get obsessed with what it feels like to create the new version of yourself with that. Not expecting Jessica to give you an ounce of affirmation that she's like, oh my gosh, Chris, you look so different. You're acting so different.
You don't need anything from Jessica. You're not doing it for Jessica. You're doing this from an internal awareness of I'm going to become somebody new. Jessica reaps the benefit of that. But right now Jessica just needs to cry.
She needs to question her reality. She needs permission to loop, to ask questions, and to be utterly broken. So that's my encouragement to you is you talk about your self image. Write down the things that are true about you and that will become very, very true about you. And just get obsessed with that.
Like, this is your permission slip. You don't need anybody to tell you like, hey, Chris, you should think these positive things. Like, this is your time. Like, nobody's ever gonna tell you to do that. This is your opportunity.
You're gonna you're gonna either lose everything or reinvent yourself and build something amazing. Mhmm. You might as well choose what that amazing sounds like and looks like.
Caitlyn: Yeah. You're at this pivotal moment, both of you, where you can either go this way where it ends in divorce and things crash and burn, or you can go this way where you rebuild the entire foundation that your marriage was built upon and create something really, really beautiful. And Jessica may leave, right? She has every right to leave if she wants to. Now I'll tell you this, it would be really difficult for her to wanna leave if you took this so serious.
You took this so serious that you literally went and consumed. You went through the grounded intimacy program. You start looking at your entire story. I want you to look at all the things I've already told you. I want you to look at it sounds like lying is a huge pattern for you.
I want you to look at when you first remember lying. I want you to look at all those times you lied. What were you feeling? What were you wanting to feel? What were you running from?
If she sees a man who's going after his story, who's getting radically honest, who's full of truth and transparency, who's rebuilding and rewiring his brain, like rewiring even the way that you see women outside, the way you engage with people, all these things, everything that we talk about in the grounded intimacy program. If you begin to just consume that and go through the frameworks, rewiring your brain, transforming your life, she's gonna be like, of course, I wanna live a good life with you. If you get off this call and you go, yep, I know babe, I looked at porn a couple times. I'm not saying that it even sounds like you wanna do this. Just sometimes people in the initial wake, they're like, I wanna heal.
And then it's like, floop. Because it requires them to break down their denial structure, which key is keeping them boxed in. So if you stay safe in your denial structure, and you go weeks more just like, oh, yep, I looked at porn, but I'm going to my counselor, I'm trying just to like, I'll read a couple books here and there, and I'll maybe tell you a couple things, but that's about where it's gonna go, and I'm sorry that you're crying, I'm sorry that I did it. It's like, that's not a man that Jessica wants to be with, right? That's not a man that anybody listening to this wants to stay in a marriage with.
So it's like, I always like to say when you're at this pivotal moment, I think it's one of our last episodes on season two, this is worth making the highest priority of your life. Like everything else pauses right now. This is your number one priority. Like you are coming alive. Your marriage is coming alive.
Think about the beautiful ripple effect to your three children and any more that you would decide to have. Like, at the time when Brandon decided to heal, had two children. We now have four children at the time of this recording. Our marriage almost plummeted to divorce. These two children wouldn't be alive.
Like, we happen to actually have two sons after this. So it's like, look at the beauty and the creation of making this the number one priority. Like, if you have to halt everything in life to have time to have conversations and to dive deep together and to explore your story and to heal together, like, two, three, five, ten years from now, three months from now, you're gonna look back and nobody would look back and go, wow, I regret that I spent all my time healing my marriage. And now look at me, I'm thriving, my kids are thriving, I'm creating more kids, we're living a life that we love. Nobody looks and goes, oh, I regret that.
They look back at their life, you know, maybe even like the life your father's even, the pattern he's created where it's like, three marriages in, all ending in divorce. That's the type of life people go and look back and go, oh, I wish I could have created something different. Nobody looks and goes, wow. Instead of scrolling on social media and watching cartoons every night, I made this my number one priority and now look at us. We're in love and we're connected and life is vibrant and life is good.
Like, you take anything from this episode, it's make this your number one priority. Everything else pauses. You're gonna see yourself clearly. You're gonna share the truth with honesty to your wife. You're gonna rewire it all through the 4R's and you're gonna heal.
You will make it to the other side even if you've lived a life of addiction and lying all the way up until now. You can heal and rewire your brain if you want to and you have to be the one who wants it. It can't be just so that she trusts you again. It has to be because you wanna come alive, because you want this, because you want your marriage to transform. And together, if you unite in that vision, your life looks so different thirty days from now, a couple months from now.
Next year, standing and reflecting on this call, if you go all in, you're like, wow. I'm so thankful I listened. I'm so glad I went all in. Look at this life that we've created together.
Brandon: Chris, you have everything you need to do this, is what Caitlyn's saying. You have everything you need. Exactly. And Jessica, you have full permission to feel what you need to feel for as long as you need to feel. Chris, every time things heat up, she brings pain to you.
Take it with pride that you are the man that is going to be the healing agent for her to say, tell me more about what you're feeling. What is it like walking through that? Help me understand. Allow those moments to break you in the sense of softening and receiving her. Jessica, feel free to feel free to feel and process your emotion.
As Caitlyn said, it means letting it flow through you, not stuffing it, not having to shut it down, but giving yourself permission to ask, to question and to feel, is your gift that you give to yourself in this healing process as well. Everybody, want to thank you for listening to this episode with Chris and Jessica. Thank you guys for sharing your story with us. And, if you'd like to further with us and join a community of couples working on the relationship, can see in the show notes more information about the Grounded Union app. We hope to see you inside.
Thank you for joining us on this episode.