1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:03,079 Well, I don't think that date could have gone any worse Welcome 2 00:00:03,079 --> 00:00:05,531 to primary technology the show about the tech news that matters 3 00:00:05,631 --> 00:00:09,623 the Situationship between open AI and Microsoft has changed become 4 00:00:09,623 --> 00:00:11,864 a little more perilous We'll get into that plus anthropic in 5 00:00:11,864 --> 00:00:15,466 the Department of Defense may be getting back together The NSA 6 00:00:15,466 --> 00:00:19,899 is using mythos supposedly that model so powerful the public can't use it Google 7 00:00:20,237 --> 00:00:24,792 Employees are actually petitioning Sundar Pichai to not let the Pentagon use its AI. 8 00:00:24,792 --> 00:00:27,756 Musk and Altman are going at it in court right now. 9 00:00:27,756 --> 00:00:30,699 Plus we're gonna do a little follow up on John Ternes as Apple's new CEO 10 00:00:30,739 --> 00:00:34,183 and a ton more. This episode is exclusively brought to you by you, 11 00:00:34,183 --> 00:00:35,765 the members who support us directly. 12 00:00:35,765 --> 00:00:37,197 I'm one of your host, Stephen Robles, 13 00:00:37,197 --> 00:00:38,929 and joining me once again for the third time, 14 00:00:38,929 --> 00:00:40,621 developer Jason Atan. How's it going, 15 00:00:40,621 --> 00:00:41,621 Jason? 16 00:00:40,827 --> 00:00:41,827 I was 17 00:00:41,058 --> 00:00:44,048 like, wait, we've done way more than three episodes of this show. 18 00:00:43,727 --> 00:00:45,579 No, no, but this is the 19 00:00:44,048 --> 00:00:45,141 What are you talking about? 20 00:00:45,579 --> 00:00:48,153 third time you're developer, Jason Aten. 21 00:00:48,153 --> 00:00:51,938 That's it. ~ Thank you, 22 00:00:48,917 --> 00:00:50,337 it's a developing situation. 23 00:00:51,938 --> 00:00:53,770 thank you. Well, do you have any idea? 24 00:00:53,770 --> 00:00:54,812 I know it was a very vague quote. 25 00:00:54,812 --> 00:00:56,464 Well, I don't think that date could have gone any worse. 26 00:00:56,464 --> 00:00:58,967 it's not? You know. 27 00:00:56,500 --> 00:00:59,545 It's not a vague quote. Yeah, 28 00:00:59,786 --> 00:01:02,811 isn't it? It's Mike Wazowski in Monster's Inc. 29 00:01:03,515 --> 00:01:05,035 You nailed the movie, it is MonsterZinc. 30 00:01:05,035 --> 00:01:07,095 Apparently it's Sully, but yes. 31 00:01:06,619 --> 00:01:07,619 Are you sure? 32 00:01:07,095 --> 00:01:09,755 I mean, that's what this janky movie website told me. 33 00:01:09,755 --> 00:01:11,735 It's supposedly Sully from MonsterZinc. 34 00:01:10,775 --> 00:01:11,775 All done. 35 00:01:11,735 --> 00:01:13,095 Alright, well you look that up. 36 00:01:13,095 --> 00:01:15,215 If you're watching either an Apple Podcast, 37 00:01:15,215 --> 00:01:16,775 YouTube, or Spotify, I have a new shirt. 38 00:01:16,775 --> 00:01:21,315 The Medieval Knight on the Polar Bear is now in the flesh. 39 00:01:21,315 --> 00:01:22,655 Like you can buy it on a shirt. 40 00:01:22,655 --> 00:01:24,635 Jason has one too, but he didn't wear it today. 41 00:01:24,857 --> 00:01:27,034 Wait, did I wear it? Actually, 42 00:01:27,034 --> 00:01:29,100 no, I have an ATP shirt on. probably did. 43 00:01:28,731 --> 00:01:30,372 Wow ~ 44 00:01:30,372 --> 00:01:33,212 She's got a ATP shirt on that's fine. 45 00:01:33,212 --> 00:01:36,223 Well anyway, I'll put a link to get it I just wanted to have a shirt. 46 00:01:36,223 --> 00:01:39,734 It's an embroidered logo. You can get the medieval knight on the polar bear. 47 00:01:39,734 --> 00:01:42,885 It's 20 bucks I think I make 50 cents if you buy a shirt. 48 00:01:42,885 --> 00:01:45,556 I don't care. It's not for profit It's literally just if you want 49 00:01:45,756 --> 00:01:51,337 a medieval knight riding a polar bear ~ to adorn on your person So that's that 50 00:01:51,718 --> 00:01:54,148 and we got some five-star review shoutouts and we got to talk about all 51 00:01:54,148 --> 00:01:56,619 the AI stuff and have a little bit of follow-up about 52 00:01:56,741 --> 00:01:58,012 John Ternes, I just want to mention. 53 00:01:58,012 --> 00:02:00,003 But five star review shout outs, 54 00:02:00,003 --> 00:02:02,655 Mark Big D from the UK. Loves the podcast. 55 00:02:02,655 --> 00:02:03,976 We have great chemistry and good banter, 56 00:02:03,976 --> 00:02:07,151 Jason. Look at that. RDB, the tech guy from the USA. 57 00:02:07,151 --> 00:02:08,859 Now this is this directly to you. 58 00:02:08,859 --> 00:02:11,911 I'm a huge Michigan fan and don't even live there. 59 00:02:11,911 --> 00:02:14,403 How do you live in Michigan but don't like the University of Michigan? 60 00:02:15,429 --> 00:02:17,064 I'm sorry, well, I didn't hear anything you said. 61 00:02:17,064 --> 00:02:19,532 I know I heard exactly what you said. 62 00:02:17,391 --> 00:02:19,962 Why don't you like the big house? 63 00:02:20,284 --> 00:02:22,101 He said the big house is so historic. 64 00:02:23,801 --> 00:02:27,610 I mean, that's not a good reason to like a school. 65 00:02:24,367 --> 00:02:25,557 Are you prepared to answer this question? 66 00:02:28,097 --> 00:02:29,528 Okay, all right. All right, we'll move on. 67 00:02:29,528 --> 00:02:31,329 We'll move on. I'll adjacent think about that for next week. 68 00:02:31,329 --> 00:02:35,903 Podcast 728 from the USA, my head cut off in Apple Podcasts still makes them laugh. 69 00:02:35,903 --> 00:02:37,334 If you look at the bottom of our show, 70 00:02:37,334 --> 00:02:40,706 we have host pictures and my head's cut off and I'm not going to change 71 00:02:40,706 --> 00:02:42,297 it because I think it's hilarious too. 72 00:02:42,297 --> 00:02:47,001 And ~ they asked, has one ever a one star review stood out? 73 00:02:47,001 --> 00:02:48,782 And I say, no, we don't even read those. 74 00:02:48,782 --> 00:02:49,782 you know. 75 00:02:50,365 --> 00:02:52,750 except everyone knows that that's not actually true. 76 00:02:52,711 --> 00:02:56,273 I know. I do. Yeah, 77 00:02:52,750 --> 00:02:55,428 Stephen reads every single one of them. 78 00:02:55,428 --> 00:02:57,253 prints them out and he puts, yeah. 79 00:02:57,354 --> 00:03:00,456 that's right. The wall that you can't see in my camera shot is just covered 80 00:03:00,456 --> 00:03:03,378 in printed out reviews on a three by five cards. 81 00:03:03,378 --> 00:03:08,191 And then Meskin84 from the USA tabs on the top for the web browser phone 82 00:03:08,191 --> 00:03:11,603 and back left pocket. And he did mention the silence trimming. 83 00:03:11,603 --> 00:03:13,054 Listen, I've been struggling with Riverside. 84 00:03:13,054 --> 00:03:14,305 We talked about in the pre show. 85 00:03:14,305 --> 00:03:15,946 This episode is going to be great. 86 00:03:15,946 --> 00:03:19,588 It's going to be in sync. Silences are going to be silent, 87 00:03:19,588 --> 00:03:22,110 not cut off, and then you can use whatever smart speed you want. 88 00:03:22,682 --> 00:03:24,552 We're gonna do that. Yeah, yeah. 89 00:03:24,552 --> 00:03:27,506 And then finally Hokkaido North Country from Japan. 90 00:03:27,506 --> 00:03:30,248 Someone from Japan listens to the show and gave us five stars. 91 00:03:30,248 --> 00:03:35,242 And this was nice. They supported the show and then said there was a deluge 92 00:03:35,242 --> 00:03:37,423 of feeds that were then available to him, 93 00:03:37,423 --> 00:03:38,464 which was a little overwhelming, 94 00:03:38,464 --> 00:03:40,386 which I totally understand because listen, 95 00:03:40,386 --> 00:03:42,057 I have to post all those feeds every week. 96 00:03:42,057 --> 00:03:44,290 So I know how many different versions. 97 00:03:44,290 --> 00:03:47,141 So I just want to say one, this episode is not sponsored, 98 00:03:47,141 --> 00:03:48,632 but you still get bonus content. 99 00:03:48,866 --> 00:03:50,887 our pre-show and Primary Tech Daily. 100 00:03:50,887 --> 00:03:55,209 And if you just want all the content from one feed when you support the show, 101 00:03:55,209 --> 00:03:57,230 if you listen to the unedited feed, 102 00:03:57,230 --> 00:03:58,811 spoiler, it's actually pretty edited, 103 00:03:58,811 --> 00:04:01,652 so much so that it has chapters and chapter artwork, 104 00:04:01,652 --> 00:04:04,784 but it also is the pre-show. And since you have chapters everywhere, 105 00:04:04,784 --> 00:04:06,134 you could just listen to that version. 106 00:04:06,134 --> 00:04:08,946 If you don't want the intro, you could just skip it to the show start and 107 00:04:08,946 --> 00:04:11,987 you can go from there. So that's probably the one feed to rule them all, 108 00:04:11,987 --> 00:04:13,758 because you get the bonus content there as well. 109 00:04:13,408 --> 00:04:14,408 And the 110 00:04:13,940 --> 00:04:15,709 pre show today was 34 minutes long. 111 00:04:15,709 --> 00:04:17,830 So it's like you get a whole extra episode. 112 00:04:16,890 --> 00:04:17,890 was? 113 00:04:17,930 --> 00:04:19,390 It was, were talking about Jason's app, 114 00:04:19,390 --> 00:04:23,190 we were talking about my app that I am developing as well, 115 00:04:23,190 --> 00:04:25,630 or that Claude is developing, however you want to put it. 116 00:04:25,800 --> 00:04:28,243 Claude is in a closet somewhere developing an app. 117 00:04:28,243 --> 00:04:29,243 We don't know what's happening. 118 00:04:29,262 --> 00:04:32,046 Yeah, that's right. He's running on a Mac Mini. 119 00:04:32,046 --> 00:04:34,108 You know, should name, should we name our cloud agents? 120 00:04:34,108 --> 00:04:35,350 Should we personalize them? 121 00:04:35,459 --> 00:04:37,221 No, I'm not doing that. It's already called Claude. 122 00:04:37,221 --> 00:04:39,965 It's already pretty personalized. 123 00:04:37,786 --> 00:04:39,926 Yeah, I know, but I feel like... 124 00:04:39,926 --> 00:04:42,146 I'm gonna call mine Wazowski. Did you look it up? 125 00:04:39,965 --> 00:04:43,520 It was Mike was asked guy was right. 126 00:04:42,146 --> 00:04:43,586 It was? 127 00:04:43,520 --> 00:04:47,557 He was on a date with his girlfriend at Harry housings like your janky website 128 00:04:47,780 --> 00:04:48,780 That is, 129 00:04:47,897 --> 00:04:48,999 cannot defeat me. 130 00:04:49,372 --> 00:04:51,495 and now the problem is every time I search for it, 131 00:04:51,495 --> 00:04:53,387 it's the same janky website I go to. 132 00:04:53,387 --> 00:04:55,691 And so I think Google and Safari is just like, 133 00:04:55,691 --> 00:04:57,984 okay, I guess this guy loves this terrible website. 134 00:04:57,984 --> 00:04:59,646 We'll just keep, yeah, but anyway. 135 00:04:59,072 --> 00:05:00,072 No, what Google 136 00:04:59,855 --> 00:05:02,023 is thinking is it probably has AdWords on it and it's like, 137 00:05:02,023 --> 00:05:03,809 hey, if he's going to keep clicking on stuff. 138 00:05:03,431 --> 00:05:04,431 That's true. Yeah, 139 00:05:04,391 --> 00:05:07,703 that is true. All right. I want to give two app shoutouts These are super 140 00:05:07,703 --> 00:05:14,065 fun free apps from listeners of this show first one is chess piece This 141 00:05:14,065 --> 00:05:18,107 is a free app that you can get just on your iPhone piece is spelled P E 142 00:05:18,107 --> 00:05:23,079 A C E because it's meant to not stress you out but it's made to do like little chess 143 00:05:23,079 --> 00:05:26,440 puzzles and so it's like, you know as a puzzle game, 144 00:05:26,440 --> 00:05:29,571 but chess related and Yeah, I thought that was super fun. 145 00:05:29,571 --> 00:05:31,602 That was Sam who listens to the show 146 00:05:31,970 --> 00:05:33,461 made that app. I'll put a link there. 147 00:05:33,461 --> 00:05:36,510 And also Stuart, he actually made an app. 148 00:05:36,510 --> 00:05:38,044 This is going to be available May 2nd. 149 00:05:38,044 --> 00:05:43,037 So starting Saturday. This is a My Links app. 150 00:05:43,037 --> 00:05:47,410 It is also free to download. You can get it on the Mac and it's where 151 00:05:47,410 --> 00:05:52,054 you can have like your links, whatever you links you need for your social media, 152 00:05:52,054 --> 00:05:53,274 your YouTube channel, whatever. 153 00:05:53,274 --> 00:05:57,758 You can live in the menu bar on your Mac and he also has a app that works for it. 154 00:05:57,758 --> 00:06:01,050 But I like the menu bar Mac thing to quickly get to those links, 155 00:06:01,050 --> 00:06:02,050 whether it's your 156 00:06:02,020 --> 00:06:04,041 threads and blue sky and massadunlinks, 157 00:06:04,041 --> 00:06:05,533 your email addresses, your websites, 158 00:06:05,533 --> 00:06:08,396 all of that. And he was inspired by one of the shortcuts I built recently 159 00:06:08,396 --> 00:06:10,918 to just make it into an app. And I feel that's great. 160 00:06:10,918 --> 00:06:14,221 That's awesome. So shout out. All right. 161 00:06:11,769 --> 00:06:12,769 That's awesome. 162 00:06:14,221 --> 00:06:17,304 We talked a lot about John Ternes last week and the Apple transition. 163 00:06:17,304 --> 00:06:22,279 Then you wrote an article and I loaded it in on ink.com so fast that 164 00:06:22,279 --> 00:06:25,381 I wasn't able to even able to read her mode so I can actually 165 00:06:25,381 --> 00:06:27,633 see the article without any pop ups Jason. 166 00:06:28,204 --> 00:06:30,896 I did it. That's the hack. You just got to load it fast enough and 167 00:06:30,896 --> 00:06:33,018 go into reader mode and look, here it is. 168 00:06:33,018 --> 00:06:36,490 Did it. Well, what did you say the five things were that every Apple 169 00:06:33,316 --> 00:06:34,316 Yeah. 170 00:06:36,490 --> 00:06:38,241 fan hopes John Ternes will fix as CEO? 171 00:06:37,337 --> 00:06:38,591 I don't know, you didn't read it? 172 00:06:38,241 --> 00:06:41,204 I'll be honest. I read your other article, 173 00:06:38,591 --> 00:06:39,921 I don't remember, no, okay. 174 00:06:41,204 --> 00:06:44,126 but then I saw it in Apple News and it only showed number five. 175 00:06:44,252 --> 00:06:45,252 No, 176 00:06:44,632 --> 00:06:47,792 it didn't. It took for some reason number five as the headline. 177 00:06:47,792 --> 00:06:52,252 And then it made the deck like all kind of jumbled up. 178 00:06:47,930 --> 00:06:50,168 I know as the headline, yeah. So I wasn't sure. 179 00:06:52,252 --> 00:06:55,152 Anyway, I just think these are the things I just have been I did a little 180 00:06:55,152 --> 00:06:56,152 bit of research and I was like, 181 00:06:56,012 --> 00:06:59,112 what seems to be the stuff that people care about the most fix? 182 00:06:59,112 --> 00:07:01,852 Siri, obviously, right? Delivery Apple intelligence, 183 00:07:00,344 --> 00:07:01,344 Yep. Yep. 184 00:07:01,852 --> 00:07:06,412 right? They were people want someone who will be a little bit more decisive about 185 00:07:06,412 --> 00:07:10,652 products than maybe Jim Goodenough's make her Apple Hardware Company again, 186 00:07:06,989 --> 00:07:07,989 Yes. 187 00:07:10,652 --> 00:07:12,932 which I will say I think Apple already. 188 00:07:13,227 --> 00:07:15,798 is a hardware company. I think the perception, 189 00:07:15,798 --> 00:07:18,490 however, is that it has become a services company. 190 00:07:18,490 --> 00:07:21,161 That's fair. That's where the growth is. 191 00:07:21,161 --> 00:07:24,873 But I think people would like Apple to just wow them with some hardware, 192 00:07:24,873 --> 00:07:28,655 which again, perspective is crazy because like the MacBook Pros right 193 00:07:28,655 --> 00:07:31,102 now are the most amazing. Like everything is great. 194 00:07:30,424 --> 00:07:31,424 Yeah, it's amazing. 195 00:07:31,102 --> 00:07:33,158 The MacBook Neo isn't I wrote an article about that. 196 00:07:33,158 --> 00:07:35,599 It's like insane. And yeah, actually, 197 00:07:35,599 --> 00:07:38,741 I took number two and three and wrote a whole other article about. 198 00:07:38,741 --> 00:07:42,903 But and then they want people to they want to take some bigger swings like 199 00:07:39,140 --> 00:07:40,140 Yeah. 200 00:07:43,183 --> 00:07:44,544 Let's try something crazy. Like, 201 00:07:44,544 --> 00:07:46,956 let's actually ship some stuff that who knows. 202 00:07:46,956 --> 00:07:50,638 And then, you know, people don't seem to like Mac OS very much. 203 00:07:50,638 --> 00:07:52,029 And so they want to fix the software. 204 00:07:51,428 --> 00:07:52,705 So fix that, fix that. 205 00:07:52,029 --> 00:07:53,710 But that was five. I don't know. 206 00:07:53,710 --> 00:07:55,331 I don't understand that as much. 207 00:07:55,331 --> 00:07:58,494 there are. However, as someone who's working on an app, 208 00:07:58,494 --> 00:08:02,756 both on a liquid glass does some janky things to some stuff. 209 00:08:00,184 --> 00:08:01,184 Right? 210 00:08:02,756 --> 00:08:04,978 And you're like, this is not good. 211 00:08:04,978 --> 00:08:08,020 And then I was like, well, why can't I figure this out on my iPhone app? 212 00:08:08,020 --> 00:08:09,741 And then I go to like my bank's app and I'm like, 213 00:08:09,741 --> 00:08:10,842 no, they have the same problem. 214 00:08:10,766 --> 00:08:12,006 They have the same issue. Right. 215 00:08:12,346 --> 00:08:14,167 So I'll put a link to those articles, 216 00:08:14,167 --> 00:08:16,708 the Apple News articles, so you can read them there. 217 00:08:16,708 --> 00:08:19,899 But I wanted to follow up because after your article talking about 218 00:08:19,899 --> 00:08:21,009 the five things we hope you change, 219 00:08:21,009 --> 00:08:23,119 I said last week in the episode, 220 00:08:23,119 --> 00:08:28,061 I was trying to articulate the decisiveness of Steve Jobs and how turnips might 221 00:08:28,061 --> 00:08:32,969 be similar. And I was thinking about how can we judge 222 00:08:32,969 --> 00:08:36,513 a CEO's decisiveness in a product lineup? 223 00:08:36,513 --> 00:08:39,594 And thinking about like Tim Cook has been able to 224 00:08:41,266 --> 00:08:45,766 arbiter several mature product lines like the iPhone is a mature product line 225 00:08:45,766 --> 00:08:50,666 the iPad is mature product line AirPods is getting there obviously the Mac 226 00:08:50,666 --> 00:08:54,666 and So we can kind of see what decisions Tim Cook has made as a 227 00:08:54,666 --> 00:08:59,306 CEO For product lines that have been around for 10 plus years like 228 00:08:59,306 --> 00:09:02,626 the iPhone the iPad these are all 10 plus year Yeah, 229 00:09:01,016 --> 00:09:02,016 even the watch. 230 00:09:02,626 --> 00:09:07,454 even the watch. Yeah, it's been 11 years So I thought why is it that? 231 00:09:07,802 --> 00:09:11,575 I feel and I think other people have said that Steve Jobs was a more decisive 232 00:09:11,575 --> 00:09:15,028 CEO because in retrospect, unfortunately, 233 00:09:15,028 --> 00:09:20,092 we didn't get to see Steve Jobs arbiter the iPhone as a mature product category. 234 00:09:20,092 --> 00:09:23,554 We had Steve Jobs for like the iPhone through 3GS, 235 00:09:23,554 --> 00:09:26,977 Phil Schiller announced the iPhone 4 and then that was it. 236 00:09:26,977 --> 00:09:30,040 And so we didn't get to see like how would have Steve Jobs, 237 00:09:30,040 --> 00:09:32,992 the speed of the iPhone innovation, 238 00:09:32,992 --> 00:09:34,283 how he might've affected that. 239 00:09:34,283 --> 00:09:36,705 And the one lineup, obviously the Mac lineup, 240 00:09:36,941 --> 00:09:39,682 You could say Steve Jobs was the arbiter for many years, 241 00:09:39,682 --> 00:09:43,163 although I do think for the years he was over the Mac, 242 00:09:43,163 --> 00:09:46,704 it was not the same kind of consumer product as it is today. 243 00:09:46,704 --> 00:09:49,515 It just wasn't, you know, right. 244 00:09:48,163 --> 00:09:49,163 Absolutely, you're right. 245 00:09:49,515 --> 00:09:52,886 It wasn't that pervasive. And so the one product category I was thinking 246 00:09:53,165 --> 00:09:58,037 the reason why I keep coming back to it is the iPod was the one category that Steve 247 00:09:58,037 --> 00:10:04,829 Jobs ushered in and was over long enough to see how he treats a product category. 248 00:10:05,401 --> 00:10:10,721 How would he approach innovation and decision making for a mature product over time? 249 00:10:10,721 --> 00:10:15,701 And I feel like iPod is the main example of that for Jobs. 250 00:10:15,701 --> 00:10:19,941 And so I'm going to include a link to this Wiki fandom article. 251 00:10:19,941 --> 00:10:24,081 But this is the iPod, 252 00:10:24,081 --> 00:10:25,881 you know, all the iPod models, 253 00:10:25,881 --> 00:10:29,821 basically. And I mentioned last week how, 254 00:10:29,821 --> 00:10:33,461 you know, Steve Jobs, the iPod Mini was selling like crazy. 255 00:10:33,849 --> 00:10:36,189 and then Steve Jobs killed it for the iPod Nano. 256 00:10:36,189 --> 00:10:39,549 And as you can see, the iPod Mini was around for two generations, 257 00:10:39,549 --> 00:10:42,049 and then the iPod Nano was around for seven, 258 00:10:42,049 --> 00:10:45,189 sold across, you know, all the way up to 2017. 259 00:10:45,189 --> 00:10:47,549 And so the iPod Nano was obviously the hit there. 260 00:10:47,549 --> 00:10:49,869 But one other example I thought of was like, 261 00:10:49,869 --> 00:10:52,729 what happens when Steve Jobs made a decision, 262 00:10:52,729 --> 00:10:55,869 they made a version of the iPod that wasn't great, 263 00:10:55,869 --> 00:11:00,929 what did they do? And I think two examples there are the iPod Shuffle that 264 00:11:00,929 --> 00:11:02,589 had like no buttons or anything. 265 00:11:03,256 --> 00:11:05,047 Like, if you were not familiar, 266 00:11:05,047 --> 00:11:09,509 there was the iPod Shuffle that was literally just like this silver stick. 267 00:11:09,509 --> 00:11:13,071 And I think it had a clip, like a built-in clip on it. 268 00:11:10,118 --> 00:11:11,118 Right. 269 00:11:13,071 --> 00:11:15,392 And maybe there was like one button on the top, 270 00:11:15,392 --> 00:11:18,754 but it was not very popular or well received. 271 00:11:18,754 --> 00:11:20,555 And it lasted for like a year. 272 00:11:20,555 --> 00:11:22,886 You know, like they only made one version of that. 273 00:11:22,886 --> 00:11:25,597 There was no version two of the buttonless iPod Shuffle. 274 00:11:25,597 --> 00:11:28,279 And I think that was an example where they tried something, 275 00:11:28,279 --> 00:11:31,220 it didn't work, and they pivoted quickly. 276 00:11:31,220 --> 00:11:32,241 And... 277 00:11:32,663 --> 00:11:35,074 You you could call it that a failure or whatever, 278 00:11:35,074 --> 00:11:39,305 but they tried it. And then they went to like the actual button shuffle that lasted 279 00:11:39,305 --> 00:11:42,136 for multiple generations where you had like basically a click wheel, 280 00:11:42,136 --> 00:11:44,216 but on a clip. And that iPod shuffle, 281 00:11:44,216 --> 00:11:46,897 I actually had one of those where it was like a square. 282 00:11:46,897 --> 00:11:48,637 And I remember people would like, 283 00:11:48,637 --> 00:11:51,788 I don't know if it was that one or there was one with a screen that people would 284 00:11:51,788 --> 00:11:55,499 put like in a makeshift Apple watch holder or whatever. 285 00:11:55,499 --> 00:11:57,270 Cause they did, I think there was a screen version. 286 00:11:57,270 --> 00:12:01,701 think it was the later Nanos. So the iPod shuffle button list was one example. 287 00:12:01,987 --> 00:12:05,018 And then also the, was it the fat nano they call it, 288 00:12:05,018 --> 00:12:07,319 where it's like squat, you know what mean? 289 00:12:05,862 --> 00:12:06,862 you 290 00:12:07,319 --> 00:12:10,339 And I think they added like video playback on the squat nano. 291 00:12:10,339 --> 00:12:14,411 And that was another one where I think it was like a year maybe that they 292 00:12:14,411 --> 00:12:17,291 did that or maybe two at the most. 293 00:12:17,291 --> 00:12:18,291 And then it was like, all right, 294 00:12:18,082 --> 00:12:23,313 forget it. And so I feel like we could see across the iPod lineup, 295 00:12:23,313 --> 00:12:26,404 what it looks like to have a decisive CEO that's like, 296 00:12:26,404 --> 00:12:29,805 let's try this thing. And when it works like the iPod nano, 297 00:12:30,115 --> 00:12:32,605 Let's double down and we're going to make generations of this and it's going 298 00:12:32,605 --> 00:12:35,489 to be great. And if that doesn't do well, 299 00:12:35,489 --> 00:12:38,011 there's decisive to say, we're not trying that again. 300 00:12:38,011 --> 00:12:39,372 Let's try something different. 301 00:12:39,372 --> 00:12:43,975 And maybe the iPod hardware was easier to innovate quicker on, 302 00:12:43,975 --> 00:12:47,488 but I feel like that is what it means to be a decisive CEO across 303 00:12:47,488 --> 00:12:51,041 a mature product category. And one of the reasons I'm optimistic about Ternus. 304 00:12:51,620 --> 00:12:54,931 I want to say first of all that the fourth gen iPod Nano, 305 00:12:54,931 --> 00:12:57,622 which was like tall with a kind of a vertical window, 306 00:12:57,472 --> 00:12:58,472 Yay 307 00:12:57,622 --> 00:12:59,562 was one of my favorite products Apple ever made. 308 00:12:59,562 --> 00:13:01,143 I love that thing. It was great. 309 00:13:00,493 --> 00:13:01,493 That's a good one. 310 00:13:01,143 --> 00:13:07,265 ~ But I think that what people mean when they want a CEO to be more decisive, 311 00:13:07,265 --> 00:13:08,725 I think that's the wrong word. 312 00:13:08,725 --> 00:13:14,947 But what they really want is the CEO to have an opinion about the products in a way, 313 00:13:09,241 --> 00:13:10,241 Okay. 314 00:13:14,947 --> 00:13:18,248 because I think the single best example 315 00:13:18,862 --> 00:13:20,793 of the angst that has been caused. 316 00:13:20,793 --> 00:13:23,893 Angst is not the right word because that's like self-inflicted anxiety sort of, 317 00:13:23,893 --> 00:13:28,035 but about the frustration with Apple's product lineup under Tim Cook 318 00:13:28,135 --> 00:13:31,496 has been things like the AirPods Max, 319 00:13:31,496 --> 00:13:32,806 which like don't get an upgrade. 320 00:13:32,806 --> 00:13:34,486 And then they get there like, we made an upgrade. 321 00:13:34,486 --> 00:13:36,487 All you did is swap the port to USB-C. 322 00:13:36,487 --> 00:13:39,868 Like you have no idea about what this should be more than this, 323 00:13:39,868 --> 00:13:44,129 right? That's an example. But an even better example is the butterfly keyboard. 324 00:13:44,129 --> 00:13:46,850 How did that thing stick around for as long as it stuck around? 325 00:13:47,256 --> 00:13:48,256 Right. 326 00:13:47,430 --> 00:13:48,430 through 327 00:13:47,710 --> 00:13:50,452 multiple levels of, we have to have a hardware repair program. 328 00:13:50,452 --> 00:13:52,754 like, no, just say this is broken, 329 00:13:52,754 --> 00:13:54,926 you have to fix it, you have to change what you're doing. 330 00:13:54,926 --> 00:13:57,858 By the next time we stand up on a stage and release a Mac laptop, 331 00:13:57,858 --> 00:14:00,520 it has to be fixed. It can never go back to being this bad again. 332 00:14:00,520 --> 00:14:02,591 That is what people like Steve Jobs would have done. 333 00:14:02,591 --> 00:14:07,645 Right. And Tim Cook just was not willing to make those kind of seems like 334 00:14:02,988 --> 00:14:03,988 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 335 00:14:07,645 --> 00:14:09,627 he just didn't have that strong of opinion about it. 336 00:14:09,627 --> 00:14:11,698 And so he wasn't willing to make those kind of calls. 337 00:14:11,698 --> 00:14:13,740 It didn't register in his mind. 338 00:14:14,330 --> 00:14:17,694 This is super bad to the people who love these products the most. 339 00:14:17,694 --> 00:14:19,026 And so we need to make a change. 340 00:14:19,026 --> 00:14:22,721 And so that's, that is, think what people mean when they talk about it'd 341 00:14:22,721 --> 00:14:24,774 be nice to have a product person who's decisive. 342 00:14:24,774 --> 00:14:27,447 What they mean is we want a person who has an opinion about 343 00:14:27,447 --> 00:14:31,283 the products beyond just, I think we could put a notification in settings 344 00:14:31,283 --> 00:14:32,344 to sell people Apple care. 345 00:14:33,045 --> 00:14:38,848 And I think the risk associated with having an opinion and being decisive 346 00:14:38,848 --> 00:14:42,930 is something Tim Cook was averse to like if you look at the butterfly keyboard They 347 00:14:42,930 --> 00:14:46,862 tried for many years to make it work by doing slight tweaks like they literally 348 00:14:46,862 --> 00:14:51,489 brought a bunch of press We really got it this time and there was you know, 349 00:14:46,985 --> 00:14:48,836 We got it guys this time three times 350 00:14:51,489 --> 00:14:54,625 John Gruber mentioned I think it was on a recent dithering But like they brought 351 00:14:54,625 --> 00:14:58,957 a bunch of press people in and they said how we they put a membrane underneath 352 00:14:59,277 --> 00:15:02,409 the keys of the butterfly keyboard this way crumbs won't totally break 353 00:15:02,409 --> 00:15:05,491 it because that was the thing the butterfly keyboards and I think 354 00:15:05,491 --> 00:15:09,584 Tim Cook probably was calculating the amount of R &D they spent 355 00:15:09,864 --> 00:15:14,217 to make the butterfly keyboard how many they had in circulation and wanted 356 00:15:14,217 --> 00:15:18,579 to like sell those and not scratch it and then how much it would cost to switch 357 00:15:18,579 --> 00:15:23,332 to a new keyboard a year later I'm sure there would have been costs associated with 358 00:15:23,332 --> 00:15:27,635 that throwing away R &D maybe even scrapping keyboards swapping 359 00:15:27,635 --> 00:15:28,956 out keyboards of hardware that's 360 00:15:29,106 --> 00:15:33,179 has not sold yet, whatever. And that's probably a calculation that Steve Jobs would 361 00:15:33,179 --> 00:15:37,283 have made differently. He probably would have said the cost of selling 362 00:15:37,283 --> 00:15:42,687 bad keyboards for multiple years is higher than the cost of scrapping all this 363 00:15:42,687 --> 00:15:45,530 R &D because it's not just a monetary cost, 364 00:15:45,530 --> 00:15:50,354 it's also a mind share cost in the users of your products, 365 00:15:50,354 --> 00:15:51,975 the people who are buying it. And like, 366 00:15:51,975 --> 00:15:54,407 it got so bad to a point, the keyboards like, 367 00:15:54,407 --> 00:15:57,640 I remember Taika Waititi, director of like Thor Ragnarok, 368 00:15:58,028 --> 00:16:01,332 literally said on the carpet of one of the award shows, 369 00:16:01,332 --> 00:16:03,104 they asked him something and he was like, 370 00:16:03,104 --> 00:16:05,937 yeah, Apple's keyboards, they really gotta fix those. 371 00:16:05,937 --> 00:16:11,123 It's like, a director of Marvel movies is noticing how bad your keyboards 372 00:16:07,055 --> 00:16:08,055 you 373 00:16:11,123 --> 00:16:13,486 are and blasting you on the red carpet, 374 00:16:13,486 --> 00:16:17,030 this is a serious problem. And that's the decisiveness, 375 00:16:17,030 --> 00:16:18,972 that's what I say when I say decisiveness. 376 00:16:18,864 --> 00:16:19,864 Well, 377 00:16:19,284 --> 00:16:22,267 I think, yeah, sorry, just to close the loop on this, 378 00:16:22,267 --> 00:16:23,448 one of those terms I hate to say, 379 00:16:23,448 --> 00:16:29,062 but anyway, I think the real problem was that Johnny Ive had stronger opinions than 380 00:16:29,062 --> 00:16:30,904 Tim Cook did. And so Tim Cook, 381 00:16:30,904 --> 00:16:32,555 so you have these meetings where Tim Cook's like, 382 00:16:32,555 --> 00:16:34,617 we gotta fix this. People seem to not be really mad. 383 00:16:34,617 --> 00:16:37,379 And Johnny Ive is like, no, this is the way it should be. 384 00:16:37,379 --> 00:16:41,262 This is the form of what the keyboard should be. 385 00:16:37,686 --> 00:16:38,686 Aluminium. 386 00:16:41,262 --> 00:16:43,344 We've gotta get this thing right. 387 00:16:43,344 --> 00:16:44,665 And Tim Cook's like, okay, mean, 388 00:16:44,665 --> 00:16:46,216 Johnny Ive, he's like the product guy, 389 00:16:46,216 --> 00:16:48,008 so like we should probably keep trying to do this. 390 00:16:48,356 --> 00:16:50,807 Instead of saying, no, I don't really care that you think that this is 391 00:16:50,444 --> 00:16:51,444 Right. 392 00:16:50,807 --> 00:16:52,762 the way it should be. What the way it should be is that our customers 393 00:16:52,762 --> 00:16:56,305 are happy with the keyboard because what they do with the keyboard is type 394 00:16:56,305 --> 00:16:57,838 on it while they're eating a sandwich. 395 00:16:57,838 --> 00:17:00,271 And if it stops working in that scenario, 396 00:17:00,271 --> 00:17:01,553 we haven't designed a good product. 397 00:17:01,553 --> 00:17:05,348 You can't be like, here's the perfect keyboard if you work in a clean room like 398 00:17:05,348 --> 00:17:06,870 that's not Apple's market share. 399 00:17:05,353 --> 00:17:06,353 Right, 400 00:17:07,517 --> 00:17:09,459 Thank you. That's exactly, I agree. 401 00:17:09,459 --> 00:17:13,386 I also love the idea of Johnny Ive being like a Groot character 402 00:17:13,426 --> 00:17:15,610 and always sitting in the office and whenever someone asks him a question 403 00:17:15,610 --> 00:17:18,594 he just says, aluminum, just in different inflations. 404 00:17:18,827 --> 00:17:19,827 Well, my 405 00:17:19,648 --> 00:17:21,608 11 year or my I guess he's 14. 406 00:17:21,608 --> 00:17:23,948 Sorry, we have two sons. No, no, 407 00:17:22,604 --> 00:17:23,893 He just dropped three years. 408 00:17:23,948 --> 00:17:25,068 no, I was gonna say it was the other one. 409 00:17:25,068 --> 00:17:26,468 But it wasn't the other one. This is a 14 year old. 410 00:17:26,468 --> 00:17:28,908 Every question you ask him, he's in the phase where he just looks at you like, 411 00:17:28,908 --> 00:17:30,668 don't worry about it. He just feels, 412 00:17:30,668 --> 00:17:32,808 I just feel Johnny Ive every time you said like, 413 00:17:30,762 --> 00:17:35,698 Okay. Supremely confident. I got it. 414 00:17:32,808 --> 00:17:33,908 we got to fix the keyboard. He's like, 415 00:17:33,908 --> 00:17:35,368 don't worry about it. Actually, 416 00:17:35,368 --> 00:17:37,628 that did not sound British at all. 417 00:17:35,698 --> 00:17:38,081 I don't know what accent that was, 418 00:17:37,628 --> 00:17:40,416 I love it. 419 00:17:38,081 --> 00:17:40,204 but we're leaving it in. And I wanted to, 420 00:17:40,565 --> 00:17:42,212 in honor of the Fat Nano, I did want to show it. 421 00:17:42,212 --> 00:17:44,149 It was a third generation iPod Nano. 422 00:17:44,149 --> 00:17:47,082 This is what it looked like. And even though wasn't super popular, 423 00:17:47,082 --> 00:17:49,055 it's still good. And this thing's scratched up. 424 00:17:48,994 --> 00:17:49,994 I think that 425 00:17:49,055 --> 00:17:50,055 I've never... 426 00:17:49,457 --> 00:17:51,769 was the best feature of it was that it got a patina. 427 00:17:53,073 --> 00:17:55,084 The iPod Nanos of the time definitely patinaed. 428 00:17:55,084 --> 00:17:58,748 All right, so there's a lot of AI news and how AI is interacting with 429 00:17:58,748 --> 00:18:02,140 the Department of Defense and we're actually gonna do our own little segment 430 00:18:02,140 --> 00:18:05,683 of Brendan Carr. We'll see if we can license that from the first cast. 431 00:18:05,683 --> 00:18:09,787 I think he said that. Yeah, I think he said we can do that. 432 00:18:05,754 --> 00:18:08,264 I think it's open source. think we're allowed to just syndicate it. 433 00:18:08,264 --> 00:18:09,264 Yeah. 434 00:18:09,787 --> 00:18:15,011 But the first big one, Microsoft and OpenAI amended their situationship, 435 00:18:15,011 --> 00:18:17,934 which OpenAI and Microsoft have been very intertwined. 436 00:18:17,934 --> 00:18:20,076 They previously had an agreement. 437 00:18:20,502 --> 00:18:23,993 where if OpenAI achieved AGI, 438 00:18:23,993 --> 00:18:25,593 artificial general intelligence, 439 00:18:25,593 --> 00:18:29,094 meaning Chachi Buti would be smarter than a human. 440 00:18:29,094 --> 00:18:31,055 There was no actual clear metric, 441 00:18:31,055 --> 00:18:34,596 and that was one of the weird things about this agreement was like, 442 00:18:34,596 --> 00:18:37,967 they're gonna put together a board of people who decide when AGI, 443 00:18:37,967 --> 00:18:39,707 and who is gonna be on that board, 444 00:18:39,707 --> 00:18:41,318 is it Beyonce, is it the Pope? 445 00:18:41,318 --> 00:18:47,249 Nobody knows. But they have notably removed that clause in the agreement. 446 00:18:47,249 --> 00:18:49,440 So AGI is now nowhere in this agreement. 447 00:18:50,035 --> 00:18:52,006 And we'll link the actual post. 448 00:18:52,006 --> 00:18:56,370 This is on Microsoft's blog, blogs.microsoft.com. 449 00:18:56,370 --> 00:18:58,882 But the main points is Microsoft remains, 450 00:18:58,882 --> 00:19:02,636 I'm reading from their post, remains OpenAI's primary cloud partner. 451 00:19:02,636 --> 00:19:05,358 OpenAI products will ship first on Azure, 452 00:19:05,358 --> 00:19:09,071 Microsoft's cloud service, unless Microsoft cannot and chooses not 453 00:19:09,071 --> 00:19:10,962 to support the necessary capabilities. 454 00:19:10,962 --> 00:19:12,484 So Microsoft is basically like, 455 00:19:12,484 --> 00:19:14,285 it will run on our service first, 456 00:19:14,285 --> 00:19:17,236 unless we don't want them to. That's what that sounds like, 457 00:19:16,070 --> 00:19:17,447 It's just the 458 00:19:17,236 --> 00:19:18,236 is that? 459 00:19:17,447 --> 00:19:18,447 first right of refusal. 460 00:19:19,052 --> 00:19:22,045 First right or refusal. And OpenAI can now serve all its products 461 00:19:22,045 --> 00:19:24,076 to customers across any cloud provider. 462 00:19:24,076 --> 00:19:28,480 So it seems like if OpenAI, and we're going to get to where they're going next. 463 00:19:28,591 --> 00:19:29,729 Yeah, six minutes later. 464 00:19:30,750 --> 00:19:34,453 Six months later, they can offer somebody else second Microsoft will continue 465 00:19:34,453 --> 00:19:38,340 to have a license to open AI IP for models and products through 2032 466 00:19:38,340 --> 00:19:43,391 and But Microsoft's license will now be non-exclusive So, 467 00:19:43,391 --> 00:19:48,766 okay So chat GPT and other models that can be licensed elsewhere three Microsoft 468 00:19:48,766 --> 00:19:52,299 will no longer pay a revenue share to open AI That's interesting. 469 00:19:52,299 --> 00:19:58,462 But fourth revenue share payments from open AI to Microsoft continue through 2030 470 00:19:58,740 --> 00:20:00,872 independent of OpenAI's technology progress. 471 00:20:00,872 --> 00:20:03,945 So Microsoft not sharing revenue with OpenAI, 472 00:20:03,945 --> 00:20:07,828 but the inverse is true. OpenAI is still sharing revenue with Microsoft, 473 00:20:07,828 --> 00:20:10,841 which makes sense. They're using Azure servers to run a bunch of their stuff. 474 00:20:10,841 --> 00:20:11,841 So sure. 475 00:20:11,494 --> 00:20:12,494 Well, what 476 00:20:11,845 --> 00:20:14,593 really makes sense here is that Microsoft is getting money 477 00:20:14,774 --> 00:20:19,778 in exchange for untangling this really weird deal. 478 00:20:20,140 --> 00:20:25,869 very weird deal. So this is an interesting addendum to their situationship 479 00:20:26,330 --> 00:20:29,054 and I just want you to know you might read that word in other articles from major 480 00:20:29,054 --> 00:20:31,818 news outlets. I thought about it before I read any of those articles. 481 00:20:31,818 --> 00:20:33,881 I wanted to put situationship in the title. 482 00:20:33,881 --> 00:20:35,454 I just want to point that out there. 483 00:20:34,948 --> 00:20:35,948 Yeah, 484 00:20:35,610 --> 00:20:37,130 but what's really sorry, we're done. 485 00:20:37,130 --> 00:20:39,819 I just wanted to explain to our listeners what really is happening here. 486 00:20:37,494 --> 00:20:40,216 Well, I was going to well, 487 00:20:40,216 --> 00:20:45,551 what, basically what happened right after that is open AI made a deal with Amazon 488 00:20:46,031 --> 00:20:49,204 and open AI announced an expanded deal with Amazon that brings models, 489 00:20:49,204 --> 00:20:50,895 codecs and other tools to AWS. 490 00:20:50,895 --> 00:20:51,895 That was it. 491 00:20:51,194 --> 00:20:52,555 Yep. 492 00:20:52,555 --> 00:20:54,647 What's really happening here is Microsoft is like, 493 00:20:54,647 --> 00:20:56,689 they're never going to get to AGI with LLMs. 494 00:20:56,689 --> 00:20:59,111 So we don't really care about that anymore. 495 00:20:59,111 --> 00:21:00,892 What we'd rather have is money now. 496 00:21:00,892 --> 00:21:02,413 So just revenue share with us, 497 00:21:02,413 --> 00:21:05,116 right? You can go wherever you want because we're no, 498 00:21:03,116 --> 00:21:04,116 Yes. 499 00:21:05,116 --> 00:21:08,208 the only reason that Microsoft cared about being exclusive and 500 00:21:08,208 --> 00:21:11,541 not allowing this technology to be used by any other partner is because they, 501 00:21:11,541 --> 00:21:14,564 because they were being convinced that there was going to be a scenario where 502 00:21:14,564 --> 00:21:17,286 it becomes AGI and Microsoft would continue to have a license. 503 00:21:17,286 --> 00:21:19,708 Microsoft and they didn't want anybody else to be able to have that. 504 00:21:20,156 --> 00:21:21,296 Microsoft still has a license. 505 00:21:21,296 --> 00:21:23,216 They can still use the technology through 2030, 506 00:21:23,216 --> 00:21:25,716 but they're like, we're not getting to AGI by then. 507 00:21:25,716 --> 00:21:28,376 LLMs are not going to do it. So why don't we just get, 508 00:21:28,376 --> 00:21:34,196 what do we want from this? OpenAI really wants to not be exclusive with us anymore. 509 00:21:34,196 --> 00:21:35,596 So if they're to pay us for that, 510 00:21:35,596 --> 00:21:37,136 that's fine. Like we'll take the money. 511 00:21:37,136 --> 00:21:39,296 We don't really care. We get to still use the stuff. 512 00:21:39,296 --> 00:21:45,836 Like this was probably the inevitable outcome where the deal just like that clause 513 00:21:45,836 --> 00:21:47,956 was so ambiguous that how are you ever going to know? 514 00:21:48,654 --> 00:21:50,629 if it had happened and now there's some clarity. 515 00:21:50,629 --> 00:21:51,629 We get money. 516 00:21:51,756 --> 00:21:55,228 There's clarity. think it's interesting that AGI is probably going 517 00:21:55,228 --> 00:21:58,959 to slowly dissipate from the conversation. 518 00:21:58,959 --> 00:22:03,421 I feel like Sam Altman has not been saying it as much just in the ether. 519 00:22:03,421 --> 00:22:06,393 Plus there's a whole court case going on right now between him and Elon Musk. 520 00:22:06,393 --> 00:22:10,384 We'll get to in a little bit. I also wanted to talk about or just mention, 521 00:22:10,384 --> 00:22:16,767 I think the hype marketing of AI has kind of reached a peak where 522 00:22:16,767 --> 00:22:18,198 in hype marketing, I would say like 523 00:22:18,762 --> 00:22:21,393 Anthropic and mythos saying this model is so powerful. 524 00:22:21,393 --> 00:22:25,324 We can't give it to the like the regular public You know like that definitely feels 525 00:22:25,324 --> 00:22:29,795 like hype marketing I think the AGI marketing that has existed the last like year 526 00:22:30,295 --> 00:22:34,855 is slowly quieting down and it does feel like now all the companies 527 00:22:34,855 --> 00:22:40,128 the AI brands Anthropic open AI Google perplexity now. 528 00:22:40,128 --> 00:22:43,569 It's like alright. We got to actually figure out how to make a business 529 00:22:43,569 --> 00:22:47,696 now We have to stop shooting or mentioning these like crazy, 530 00:22:44,176 --> 00:22:45,176 Yeah. 531 00:22:47,696 --> 00:22:48,696 you know 532 00:22:48,680 --> 00:22:53,243 AGI things because I also so everyone was talking about codecs and we're gonna talk 533 00:22:53,243 --> 00:22:55,905 about the apps We're developing with AI later in the show, 534 00:22:55,905 --> 00:22:59,677 but everybody was talking about codecs because chat GPT released their codecs 535 00:22:59,677 --> 00:23:03,210 app It's an app on the Mac that's like separate from chat GPT and you can 536 00:23:03,210 --> 00:23:06,492 ask it to do Claude co-work type things And everybody was saying this thing 537 00:23:06,492 --> 00:23:08,093 is amazing. This app is incredible. 538 00:23:08,093 --> 00:23:11,145 It's gonna blow your mind Even federal give a teach a Mac stories. 539 00:23:11,145 --> 00:23:15,078 He was like codecs is the best computer use app I was like this sounds amazing. 540 00:23:15,078 --> 00:23:16,989 All right, so I downloaded it 541 00:23:17,461 --> 00:23:19,592 I ran codex, I'm running codex on a Mac mini. 542 00:23:19,592 --> 00:23:21,073 I was like, let's see what you can do, 543 00:23:21,073 --> 00:23:23,594 bro. That's literally what I told it. 544 00:23:23,594 --> 00:23:26,075 I said, said, codex, bro, let's see what you could do. 545 00:23:23,696 --> 00:23:24,696 Bro. 546 00:23:26,075 --> 00:23:29,076 The first time I tried to tell it to use the computer, 547 00:23:29,076 --> 00:23:30,076 it failed. And then I was like, 548 00:23:29,997 --> 00:23:32,791 okay, well, that's cool. And then I, 549 00:23:32,346 --> 00:23:34,537 So not much, you can do not much. 550 00:23:32,791 --> 00:23:35,489 so not much, but then I was like, 551 00:23:35,489 --> 00:23:37,980 all right, if this is really mind blowing, 552 00:23:37,980 --> 00:23:42,482 there should probably be hundreds of YouTube videos of people showing codex, 553 00:23:42,482 --> 00:23:43,943 doing wild stuff. 554 00:23:44,715 --> 00:23:48,168 because I made my own video about cloud co-work and actual useful things 555 00:23:48,168 --> 00:23:49,835 you can do with it on a Mac. So I like, 556 00:23:49,835 --> 00:23:50,835 all right, let me go to YouTube. 557 00:23:50,640 --> 00:23:54,783 I searched for codex and I scroll for a few minutes and I'm like, 558 00:23:54,783 --> 00:23:56,560 all the videos out there right now, 559 00:23:56,560 --> 00:23:57,686 at least the ones that I found, 560 00:23:57,686 --> 00:24:00,548 it was showing codex, guess what? 561 00:24:00,548 --> 00:24:04,511 Doing coding stuff, doing development type work. 562 00:24:04,511 --> 00:24:10,676 And every video that seemed to be painting codex is this like everything app. 563 00:24:10,676 --> 00:24:12,738 As soon as I watched a few minutes of it, 564 00:24:12,738 --> 00:24:14,049 it basically all got back to. 565 00:24:14,383 --> 00:24:18,265 It's good at coding. Like that was kind of the bottom line every time I 566 00:24:18,265 --> 00:24:24,869 got to the the crux of the video and I was like I felt the hype in real time like 567 00:24:24,963 --> 00:24:28,261 I Hype Made me take action. 568 00:24:28,261 --> 00:24:32,093 I downloaded codecs to try it out I was even like maybe I to be paying $100 569 00:24:32,093 --> 00:24:33,934 a month for Chatchamutee Let's see what's up. 570 00:24:33,934 --> 00:24:38,456 And then every time I and then when I dive into actually like do real things 571 00:24:39,237 --> 00:24:43,299 It just is not meeting the hype and I think that is becoming 572 00:24:43,873 --> 00:24:46,048 Pervasive across the spectrum. 573 00:24:46,048 --> 00:24:47,367 I think even maybe real people are feeling 574 00:24:48,784 --> 00:24:51,206 I think, okay, first of all, I want to say a few things. 575 00:24:51,206 --> 00:24:54,639 The hype cycle, the mythos thing. 576 00:24:54,639 --> 00:24:55,950 I mean, it is like the perfect, 577 00:24:55,950 --> 00:24:58,502 basically what they're saying is this heroin is so good, 578 00:24:58,502 --> 00:25:02,926 it will kill you. And people are going to give me some of that. 579 00:24:59,829 --> 00:25:03,260 Right. Yes. Yeah, 580 00:25:02,926 --> 00:25:06,059 Please take my money, give me some of that. 581 00:25:03,260 --> 00:25:06,139 yeah. How much? Where can I get it? 582 00:25:06,059 --> 00:25:09,361 I can't even imagine. There is a segment of people for whom that 583 00:25:09,361 --> 00:25:11,203 is the selling point. Like this is so good, 584 00:25:11,203 --> 00:25:13,245 it could kill you. Well, I have to try it. 585 00:25:13,245 --> 00:25:15,807 But I think that the real, like, 586 00:25:15,807 --> 00:25:17,028 I feel like, 587 00:25:18,048 --> 00:25:23,252 My I have been incredibly impressed by some of the things that these tools can do. 588 00:25:23,252 --> 00:25:25,794 I just think most people don't know what to do with them. 589 00:25:25,794 --> 00:25:31,909 And I think we're pretty jaded because the thing what the thing people really want 590 00:25:31,909 --> 00:25:35,352 to be able to do is to shout out their phone and have it like schedule appointments 591 00:25:35,352 --> 00:25:39,495 for them or like whatever. And we're we're just so far away from that. 592 00:25:36,865 --> 00:25:37,865 Just understand. 593 00:25:39,495 --> 00:25:42,668 Like there's we're so far away from being like, 594 00:25:42,668 --> 00:25:47,392 hey, order me lunch. Right. Like I could barely get a person to do that. 595 00:25:45,335 --> 00:25:46,335 Yeah. 596 00:25:48,304 --> 00:25:49,785 We've had this conversation before, 597 00:25:48,661 --> 00:25:50,605 Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. 598 00:25:49,785 --> 00:25:51,494 but that is that that's when people are like, 599 00:25:51,494 --> 00:25:53,776 my phone can use itself. That's what they mean. 600 00:25:53,776 --> 00:25:56,207 Or like, ~ shoot, could you reschedule my thing? 601 00:25:56,207 --> 00:26:00,449 What we want is the capabilities of a good human assistant in our phones. 602 00:26:00,449 --> 00:26:02,770 And we're so far away from that at this point. 603 00:26:02,770 --> 00:26:05,127 And so that's why it feels like the hype cycle is good. 604 00:26:05,127 --> 00:26:06,552 But like if what you want to do is to make an app, 605 00:26:06,552 --> 00:26:09,253 I promise you this will work like it'll do a great job. 606 00:26:08,033 --> 00:26:11,849 Yeah, making an app. Yeah. Yeah. 607 00:26:09,253 --> 00:26:11,113 Or I wanted to do research for me. 608 00:26:11,113 --> 00:26:13,905 I mean, I have to be smart enough to know when it fails and I have to be able 609 00:26:13,905 --> 00:26:16,536 to do the due diligence to check things. 610 00:26:16,536 --> 00:26:17,536 But it's a 611 00:26:17,660 --> 00:26:18,978 Amazing at that kind of stuff. 612 00:26:19,223 --> 00:26:22,083 And it's great at HTML, like the website projects that I've done, 613 00:26:21,308 --> 00:26:23,436 Yeah, and it's great at summarizing things, 614 00:26:22,083 --> 00:26:24,543 like it's It's a great somewhere in the things. 615 00:26:23,436 --> 00:26:24,740 like all of that language 616 00:26:24,740 --> 00:26:26,777 related stuff is just very good. 617 00:26:27,105 --> 00:26:30,238 But when you do get into the more advanced uses, 618 00:26:30,238 --> 00:26:31,900 even something like developing an app, 619 00:26:31,900 --> 00:26:37,156 it is work. Like it is not simply make me an app that does and then give 620 00:26:37,156 --> 00:26:41,872 it a sentence. Like it is going back and forth and like knowing where something 621 00:26:41,872 --> 00:26:43,774 is broken and telling it where to fix it. 622 00:26:43,774 --> 00:26:48,219 You know, it is a process as you have discovered and are discovering it. 623 00:26:47,514 --> 00:26:48,514 Yeah, 624 00:26:48,325 --> 00:26:54,732 I think I tried to check this and I copied my entire conversation with Claude code, 625 00:26:54,732 --> 00:26:57,896 because I'm using the app I'm not doing to them in the terminal. 626 00:26:57,896 --> 00:27:01,260 And it's like 100,000 lines long, 627 00:27:01,260 --> 00:27:03,262 like just just the conversation. 628 00:27:01,696 --> 00:27:04,337 Yeah, it's all right. Exactly. 629 00:27:04,337 --> 00:27:05,337 Yeah. So 630 00:27:05,197 --> 00:27:09,388 I'm also seeing I saw a reel the other day of a guy being like or 631 00:27:09,388 --> 00:27:10,878 his his girlfriend or wife. He was like, 632 00:27:10,878 --> 00:27:14,539 listen to how my whatever boyfriend uses chat GPT. 633 00:27:14,539 --> 00:27:17,698 He's like, if you're using chat GPT in 2026, 634 00:27:17,698 --> 00:27:19,140 you're a bum, you know, something like that. 635 00:27:19,140 --> 00:27:24,461 He was like, no, what I do is I get chat GPT to write a prompt that I give 636 00:27:24,461 --> 00:27:26,582 to Claude and then Claude does the work. 637 00:27:26,582 --> 00:27:29,623 Like, OK, that's cool, bro, I guess. 638 00:27:29,623 --> 00:27:31,223 Like, I don't know why. 639 00:27:31,615 --> 00:27:33,954 I mean, Claude can probably write the prompt too, 640 00:27:33,954 --> 00:27:34,968 but whatever. 641 00:27:34,352 --> 00:27:35,634 Yeah, and Claude, 642 00:27:35,634 --> 00:27:38,499 write a prompt that you could give yourself to do this, 643 00:27:37,847 --> 00:27:39,307 Right, exactly, You 644 00:27:38,499 --> 00:27:39,499 please. 645 00:27:39,307 --> 00:27:40,607 could probably do that, but I was like, 646 00:27:40,607 --> 00:27:42,367 okay, he thinks he cracked the code. 647 00:27:42,367 --> 00:27:44,047 And then, you know, it's got like 100,000s of views. 648 00:27:44,047 --> 00:27:45,607 Like, people are like eating this stuff up, 649 00:27:45,436 --> 00:27:46,436 Yeah, so he 650 00:27:45,607 --> 00:27:46,607 so. 651 00:27:45,918 --> 00:27:47,788 cracked the code of getting views on YouTube. 652 00:27:48,727 --> 00:27:50,547 Right. Yeah, Instagram Reels. But yeah, 653 00:27:50,522 --> 00:27:51,522 Whatever. 654 00:27:50,547 --> 00:27:53,107 he did. Yeah, that was that. right, 655 00:27:53,107 --> 00:27:55,107 well, I'm to put this because it's also OpenAI. 656 00:27:55,107 --> 00:27:56,547 But the rumors are, guess what? 657 00:27:56,547 --> 00:27:58,787 The hardware device that they're working on might not be a PIN. 658 00:27:58,787 --> 00:28:01,947 Not going be a PIN, but it might actually be a phone, 659 00:28:01,947 --> 00:28:04,087 Jason. Who would have guessed? 660 00:28:04,087 --> 00:28:07,347 Who would have guessed that OpenAI might have made a phone? 661 00:28:07,347 --> 00:28:10,867 And guess what? It's not going to have apps because that would be dependent 662 00:28:10,867 --> 00:28:13,147 on app stores. It's going to have agents. 663 00:28:13,147 --> 00:28:15,259 Agents are going to do the things for you. 664 00:28:15,664 --> 00:28:17,837 Yeah, do you think that this is the thing that they're working on or 665 00:28:17,837 --> 00:28:20,642 do think this is a thing they're working on after the thing they've 666 00:28:23,519 --> 00:28:26,641 I feel like they, 667 00:28:26,641 --> 00:28:29,102 again, there's some realizations happening. 668 00:28:29,102 --> 00:28:32,164 AGI, it's like, okay, maybe it's not a thing. 669 00:28:32,164 --> 00:28:36,867 I think they're realizing like AI hardware devices, 670 00:28:36,867 --> 00:28:41,830 maybe not super popular. And this rumor originated from Ming-Chi Kuo, 671 00:28:41,830 --> 00:28:45,212 which you've probably heard that name a lot from like Apple leaks and rumors, 672 00:28:45,212 --> 00:28:49,725 varying degrees of accuracy, but this is where this originated from. 673 00:28:50,705 --> 00:28:52,431 And this could, like you're saying, 674 00:28:52,431 --> 00:28:56,093 it could be a thing where like they're just trying it to see how it does. 675 00:28:56,093 --> 00:28:57,639 But but Jason. 676 00:28:58,512 --> 00:29:01,673 Well, I guess what I'm getting at is if you read the second sentence, 677 00:29:01,673 --> 00:29:05,934 it says that the company might be working on a phone that doesn't say 678 00:29:05,974 --> 00:29:08,805 the device the company is working on with Johnny Ive is a phone, 679 00:29:08,805 --> 00:29:11,536 not an egg or whatever. So I'm just suggesting like, 680 00:29:11,536 --> 00:29:13,706 don't know what this actually means. 681 00:29:13,706 --> 00:29:16,497 Of course, they're probably working on a phone because at some point 682 00:29:16,497 --> 00:29:18,258 in the history of a tech company, 683 00:29:18,258 --> 00:29:20,288 everybody works on a phone. Metta worked on a phone. 684 00:29:20,288 --> 00:29:23,639 Amazon worked on a phone. I think Microsoft used to do phones like they bought 685 00:29:21,431 --> 00:29:25,831 Yes. You think they used to do- 686 00:29:23,639 --> 00:29:25,560 Nokia. I'm saying like 687 00:29:25,831 --> 00:29:29,251 What a burn! What a burn. 688 00:29:25,966 --> 00:29:27,987 Right? Google started making phones. 689 00:29:27,987 --> 00:29:29,298 Like, I'm just my point. 690 00:29:29,658 --> 00:29:33,100 just like this product, their Cisco phone sitting on people's desks somewhere. 691 00:29:32,375 --> 00:29:34,960 Sure, sure. Blackberry. You blame her? 692 00:29:33,100 --> 00:29:35,982 But my point is, everybody wants to make a phone at some point. 693 00:29:35,982 --> 00:29:39,610 So I don't know that this is saying that the device that they're working on. 694 00:29:39,610 --> 00:29:43,116 However, it's also entirely possible that they sat down and they realized, 695 00:29:43,116 --> 00:29:45,812 you know, we're making this device and it's going to sit on your desk next 696 00:29:45,812 --> 00:29:46,888 to your computer and your whatever. 697 00:29:46,888 --> 00:29:49,480 They did say it would exist with your phone, 698 00:29:49,480 --> 00:29:50,711 not that it would be dependent on it, 699 00:29:50,711 --> 00:29:52,832 but like it would be the third device that you'd have. 700 00:29:52,107 --> 00:29:53,107 The third device, 701 00:29:53,094 --> 00:29:54,094 yeah. 702 00:29:53,276 --> 00:29:54,276 But I think 703 00:29:53,616 --> 00:29:56,116 what happened is they realized that if you're put a device on your desk, 704 00:29:56,116 --> 00:29:58,556 one of the really useful features is that it should have a screen. 705 00:29:58,556 --> 00:29:59,716 And if it's going to have a screen, 706 00:29:59,716 --> 00:30:00,896 it might as well just be a phone. 707 00:30:01,419 --> 00:30:04,040 That's the thing. And you stole my next point. 708 00:30:04,040 --> 00:30:05,921 The companies that have tried a phone and failed. 709 00:30:04,428 --> 00:30:05,428 Sorry 710 00:30:05,921 --> 00:30:08,062 Like you said, the Facebook phone, 711 00:30:08,062 --> 00:30:12,844 this was 2013. I will link Dieter Bohn's review of the Facebook phone. 712 00:30:12,844 --> 00:30:15,726 It was called the HTC first. And so yeah, 713 00:30:15,726 --> 00:30:17,036 and this was before it was meta. 714 00:30:17,036 --> 00:30:19,307 This is literal Facebook making a phone. 715 00:30:18,630 --> 00:30:21,528 Yeah. It was super bad. 716 00:30:19,307 --> 00:30:22,589 That thing failed. Super bad. 717 00:30:22,589 --> 00:30:25,730 yeah, Amazon. The Fire Phone, it's there too. 718 00:30:25,730 --> 00:30:26,971 Also garbage. 719 00:30:27,256 --> 00:30:28,256 Also, 720 00:30:27,757 --> 00:30:29,641 Apple did a phone before it did the phone. 721 00:30:29,641 --> 00:30:32,718 Yeah, I'm just saying, 722 00:30:30,603 --> 00:30:31,824 You talking about the Motorola Rocker? 723 00:30:31,824 --> 00:30:34,786 Yeah, I mean that was, yeah. That's fair 724 00:30:32,718 --> 00:30:34,110 everybody's tried a phone. 725 00:30:34,786 --> 00:30:35,987 enough, fair enough. Also, wind, 726 00:30:35,987 --> 00:30:38,168 listen, let's pour one out, please. 727 00:30:38,168 --> 00:30:41,430 You might not agree. For Windows, 728 00:30:41,114 --> 00:30:42,114 I do not agree. 729 00:30:41,430 --> 00:30:47,114 Windows Phone 7. Because I actually thought it was pretty good. 730 00:30:47,114 --> 00:30:48,865 It just didn't have the apps. 731 00:30:48,922 --> 00:30:51,776 The only thing I can say about it is that it's better than Windows 11. 732 00:30:53,241 --> 00:30:56,593 that's... Okay. And I'm gonna shout out, 733 00:30:56,593 --> 00:30:59,345 if anybody remembers this phone, 734 00:30:59,345 --> 00:31:01,106 I had this Windows phone, I literally, 735 00:31:01,106 --> 00:31:02,717 I was working at the travel company at the time, 736 00:31:02,717 --> 00:31:08,151 I took this phone to like Egypt because I didn't want to bring my iPhone because 737 00:31:08,151 --> 00:31:13,425 I thought I would lose it. And so I brought the Dell Venue 738 00:31:13,505 --> 00:31:15,376 Pro Windows phone. 739 00:31:15,270 --> 00:31:16,270 Dell 740 00:31:15,592 --> 00:31:17,090 made a phone, my gosh, this is, 741 00:31:17,090 --> 00:31:18,499 yeah, I remember that thing. 742 00:31:17,344 --> 00:31:18,724 This is... 743 00:31:18,724 --> 00:31:20,275 This is the... And it's a slider! 744 00:31:20,275 --> 00:31:23,637 This was a sl... I... 745 00:31:20,560 --> 00:31:24,546 I hope you left it in Egypt. Bury it under a pyramid. 746 00:31:23,637 --> 00:31:29,599 Jason, I wish I kept it. There's so much tech in this era where 747 00:31:29,599 --> 00:31:34,771 I was not working in this industry and that I would buy these silly gadgets, 748 00:31:34,771 --> 00:31:37,523 but I wasn't... I didn't have enough money to actually buy them and keep them, 749 00:31:37,523 --> 00:31:41,144 so I would sell them. And I wish I had not sold my Dell Venu Pro. 750 00:31:41,144 --> 00:31:44,045 Look at... Look at how... It looks so good! 751 00:31:44,045 --> 00:31:45,706 Look at how good this looks. 752 00:31:46,112 --> 00:31:48,603 Hardware was solid, that sliding mechanism never failed, 753 00:31:48,603 --> 00:31:52,664 it was a sliding, physical QWERTY keyboard running Windows Phone. 754 00:31:52,664 --> 00:31:56,725 Love that thing. Anyway, 755 00:31:55,163 --> 00:31:56,163 Yeah. 756 00:31:56,725 --> 00:31:58,726 I thought Windows Metro designed you, 757 00:31:58,726 --> 00:32:02,597 I thought it was alright. Please leave us a five star rating and review in Appapada, 758 00:32:02,597 --> 00:32:05,387 whether you agree or not, and just pour one out for Windows Phone. 759 00:32:05,387 --> 00:32:07,328 That's all. That's all I want. 760 00:32:07,328 --> 00:32:08,908 Did you ever have a Windows Mobile, 761 00:32:08,908 --> 00:32:12,890 like one of the StarTech, like side out sliding keyboards? 762 00:32:12,676 --> 00:32:14,442 No, I mean I had a 763 00:32:12,890 --> 00:32:14,296 You never had one of those? 764 00:32:14,442 --> 00:32:16,238 Motorola StarTek but it was not a Windows. 765 00:32:17,462 --> 00:32:19,982 You really, oh, see, this is what started me down. 766 00:32:19,982 --> 00:32:21,962 I'm sorry, I'm just gonna go off on a very, 767 00:32:21,962 --> 00:32:23,022 very quick tangent here. 768 00:32:22,876 --> 00:32:23,876 I've had 769 00:32:23,086 --> 00:32:24,901 a Blackberry, I had a Palm Pre, 770 00:32:24,901 --> 00:32:27,427 I've had several Palms that weren't phones. 771 00:32:26,164 --> 00:32:27,164 I have a pump. 772 00:32:27,995 --> 00:32:31,596 No, but the StarTAC Windows Mobile phone. 773 00:32:31,596 --> 00:32:34,176 I remember in college, it was 2005, 774 00:32:34,176 --> 00:32:38,038 and a friend of mine, he had 775 00:32:38,038 --> 00:32:42,100 the singular StarTAC Windows phone. 776 00:32:42,100 --> 00:32:43,320 It looked like this. This was it. 777 00:32:43,320 --> 00:32:46,562 It was like a slide. And this one actually not only slid out, 778 00:32:46,562 --> 00:32:47,732 but actually like tilted. 779 00:32:48,297 --> 00:32:51,390 Like the screen tilted this way you can really get down on some emails 780 00:32:52,951 --> 00:32:55,733 But it looked like they didn't ran windows mobile look at this Jason. 781 00:32:55,733 --> 00:32:59,036 ~ the nostalgia Sorry, 782 00:32:59,036 --> 00:33:05,922 I'm just I Wish I need to make that I'm gonna make that 783 00:32:59,388 --> 00:33:00,388 feel nothing. 784 00:33:05,922 --> 00:33:11,887 your text tone. I feel nothing This made 785 00:33:07,004 --> 00:33:08,004 You 786 00:33:11,887 --> 00:33:15,850 me honestly like this started me on the path when I saw my friend using this which 787 00:33:16,416 --> 00:33:18,287 Two years later, he had the original iPhone. 788 00:33:18,287 --> 00:33:20,979 Also very jealous of that. ~ But I was like, 789 00:33:20,979 --> 00:33:25,632 this is amazing. And he had to spend three hours figuring out how to turn 790 00:33:25,632 --> 00:33:28,543 on the hotspot. This way, me on my Dell Axum. 791 00:33:28,543 --> 00:33:31,435 Do remember that? The Dell Axum PDA. 792 00:33:31,435 --> 00:33:35,378 Sorry. I didn't know this nostalgia bomb was going to be happening, 793 00:33:35,378 --> 00:33:36,378 but. 794 00:33:35,748 --> 00:33:36,748 Yeah, 795 00:33:35,989 --> 00:33:39,207 I know. I'm looking at the rundown and I know how much time we have left 796 00:33:38,870 --> 00:33:41,990 This was not in the rundown. This was not in 797 00:33:39,207 --> 00:33:41,061 and I'm like, we're never getting through this episode. 798 00:33:41,990 --> 00:33:44,870 the rundown. All right, let's have some actual news again. 799 00:33:44,870 --> 00:33:48,090 Actually, before we do, we don't have any sponsors today. 800 00:33:48,090 --> 00:33:49,710 And so everybody gets an ad-free version, 801 00:33:49,710 --> 00:33:52,170 but we have sponsors from next week through August. 802 00:33:52,170 --> 00:33:56,090 So sponsors are coming back. But just want to take this moment to thank everyone 803 00:33:56,090 --> 00:33:57,250 who supports the show directly, 804 00:33:57,250 --> 00:33:59,550 including everyone who signed up at The Deal, 805 00:33:59,550 --> 00:34:01,110 which is literally still going on. 806 00:34:01,110 --> 00:34:03,310 And so thank you to all the members who support the show. 807 00:34:03,310 --> 00:34:06,350 And secondly, if you want to support the show and get an ad-free version 808 00:34:06,350 --> 00:34:08,290 for the rest of the episodes, 809 00:34:08,726 --> 00:34:12,346 Plus the unedited with the pre-show and bonus episodes and all the stuff check 810 00:34:12,346 --> 00:34:15,106 the link down in the show notes I want chapters promo code you can get 811 00:34:15,106 --> 00:34:17,626 it for two dollars fifty cents a month or twenty five dollars a year 812 00:34:17,626 --> 00:34:20,826 But thanks to everyone for supporting That's it. 813 00:34:20,826 --> 00:34:25,346 That's cool. All right, so I wanted to mention the White House Correspondents dinner 814 00:34:25,346 --> 00:34:31,846 there was a shooting and There was Joanna Stern was actually there 815 00:34:31,846 --> 00:34:35,946 of the tech journalism. She was there with the NBC and we're not gonna talk about 816 00:34:35,946 --> 00:34:37,306 that event specifically 817 00:34:38,218 --> 00:34:43,059 But in the days after, there's been a call, 818 00:34:43,059 --> 00:34:48,161 Donald Trump on Truth Social, saying that ABC needs to fire Jimmy Kimmel. 819 00:34:48,161 --> 00:34:51,942 Because before, two days before the shooting, 820 00:34:51,942 --> 00:34:56,853 he made a joke about Melania Trump in some image or video looking like 821 00:34:56,853 --> 00:35:01,144 a expectant widow. And so, not, 822 00:35:01,144 --> 00:35:04,265 I mean, horrible timing. He didn't know that was gonna happen at 823 00:35:04,265 --> 00:35:05,725 the White House dinner, I imagine. 824 00:35:05,725 --> 00:35:07,656 But yeah, looks like bad timing. 825 00:35:08,609 --> 00:35:10,600 But Trump is demanding that ABC fire Jimmy Kimmel. 826 00:35:10,600 --> 00:35:15,522 Now if you remember, we've kind of done this exact scenario like a few months ago. 827 00:35:14,780 --> 00:35:16,667 I was like, haven't we done this one before? 828 00:35:15,522 --> 00:35:21,844 This is literally a copy paste situation where Trump was calling for Jimmy Kimmel 829 00:35:21,844 --> 00:35:25,966 to be fired, ABC took him off the air for at least a week or two, 830 00:35:25,966 --> 00:35:28,707 and Brendan Carr said a lot of things. 831 00:35:28,707 --> 00:35:35,620 And so this is where we are ~ syndicating the Brendan Carr's a dummy segment from 832 00:35:35,620 --> 00:35:36,620 the Vergecast. 833 00:35:36,896 --> 00:35:38,706 copyright to Neil Apatel and David Pierce. 834 00:35:38,706 --> 00:35:41,467 And we'll leave it to them to go in depth on this. 835 00:35:41,467 --> 00:35:48,209 But Brendan Carr at the FCC has now said Disney must 836 00:35:48,689 --> 00:35:51,410 file to renew their broadcast license, 837 00:35:51,410 --> 00:35:55,606 which wasn't supposed to, it wasn't set to renew till 2028. 838 00:35:55,606 --> 00:35:59,292 Disney had two more years. They are calling for Disney to renew 839 00:35:59,292 --> 00:36:05,314 its broadcast license now, presumably because Brendan Carr is going to threaten 840 00:36:05,910 --> 00:36:09,114 to not renew it unless they do something about Jimmy Kimmel. 841 00:36:09,114 --> 00:36:11,256 And we're recording the show a little early. 842 00:36:11,256 --> 00:36:12,578 It's actually Wednesday morning. 843 00:36:12,578 --> 00:36:15,191 Something might come out between now and Friday, 844 00:36:15,191 --> 00:36:19,236 which will point you to the actual Brendan Carr's Dummy podcast within 845 00:36:19,236 --> 00:36:22,009 a podcast on the Vergecast. They'll cover whatever changes. 846 00:36:22,009 --> 00:36:25,573 But yeah, this is not great, 847 00:36:25,573 --> 00:36:26,573 again. 848 00:36:26,576 --> 00:36:29,737 Yeah, think the, okay, there's a lot of things here. 849 00:36:29,737 --> 00:36:33,718 I'm gonna just try to avoid the politics of it all. 850 00:36:33,718 --> 00:36:37,679 Which is tough because, listen, 851 00:36:33,856 --> 00:36:34,856 Thank you. Thank you. 852 00:36:37,679 --> 00:36:39,359 I just think in general we should, 853 00:36:39,359 --> 00:36:44,881 we probably can all agree that people trying to shoot up ballrooms super 854 00:36:44,881 --> 00:36:48,182 bad no matter what, okay? So let's set that apart. 855 00:36:45,590 --> 00:36:46,590 That's bad. 856 00:36:48,182 --> 00:36:50,462 Kimmel's joke, honestly, like, 857 00:36:50,462 --> 00:36:55,624 I think he was, he was like, there's a picture of Melania and his point was. 858 00:36:56,986 --> 00:37:01,048 I think he was making a joke about the age gap between the two of them 859 00:37:01,048 --> 00:37:04,640 and then Melania Trump looked really good in the photo. 860 00:37:04,640 --> 00:37:06,902 And a lot of photos of Donald Trump, 861 00:37:06,902 --> 00:37:09,623 like nowadays don't look like he's super healthy. 862 00:37:09,623 --> 00:37:12,485 So I think he's making a contrast between the two had nothing to 863 00:37:12,485 --> 00:37:14,266 do with what happened or any of those things. 864 00:37:14,266 --> 00:37:19,139 I don't disagree that it was probably an maybe close to insensitive, 865 00:37:19,139 --> 00:37:20,820 but we want our comedians being insensitive. 866 00:37:20,820 --> 00:37:22,211 Like that's the whole point, right? 867 00:37:21,503 --> 00:37:24,585 kind of the point. This was the actual skit by the way and this 868 00:37:22,211 --> 00:37:24,462 We want. Okay. Yeah. 869 00:37:24,585 --> 00:37:26,343 is the image that he's referring to. 870 00:37:26,414 --> 00:37:29,005 Yeah, OK. And we want our comedians being insensitive. 871 00:37:29,005 --> 00:37:31,256 Otherwise, what is even the point of having a late night show? 872 00:37:31,256 --> 00:37:34,747 So like that's we don't want them to be just like the down the middle neutral thing. 873 00:37:34,747 --> 00:37:41,210 There's also the fact that like the number of people who have like pointed out that, 874 00:37:41,210 --> 00:37:45,582 you know, Donald Trump has his own history of not exactly wishing well 875 00:37:45,582 --> 00:37:46,953 on people who have passed away. 876 00:37:46,953 --> 00:37:50,354 Right. And so actual bad things happen to someone. 877 00:37:50,354 --> 00:37:53,195 Donald Trump's not very nice. But the Brendan Carr is a dummy thing 878 00:37:53,195 --> 00:37:54,716 is pretty straightforward. Like 879 00:37:55,010 --> 00:37:58,393 You don't I think the excuse he was using is something to do with like they're 880 00:37:58,393 --> 00:38:02,086 investigating their DEI process policies or something like that. 881 00:38:01,941 --> 00:38:02,941 Correct. 882 00:38:02,086 --> 00:38:04,768 No, like you just know your boss is mad. 883 00:38:04,768 --> 00:38:08,275 And so you're going to just do the one thing you like literally have 884 00:38:08,275 --> 00:38:09,833 one thing that you can do. That's it. 885 00:38:09,833 --> 00:38:11,704 One thing you control broadcast licenses. 886 00:38:10,153 --> 00:38:11,197 broadcast license. 887 00:38:11,704 --> 00:38:16,338 That's it. That's your only lever that you have to pull on. 888 00:38:16,338 --> 00:38:17,619 And so they're going to do it. 889 00:38:17,619 --> 00:38:19,411 And so I don't I don't know what Disney is going to do. 890 00:38:19,411 --> 00:38:21,633 I kind of feel like Disney doesn't care that much. 891 00:38:21,633 --> 00:38:22,904 mean, like maybe 892 00:38:22,463 --> 00:38:23,463 I mean, they cared 893 00:38:22,905 --> 00:38:25,819 enough to maybe take Jimmy Kimmel off the air at least for a week. 894 00:38:27,078 --> 00:38:29,811 We'll see, we'll see. mean, they have a new CEO, 895 00:38:29,811 --> 00:38:34,055 right? And we just heard that they decided they're not getting rid of ESPN. 896 00:38:34,055 --> 00:38:37,098 Maybe they're keeping ESPN so that in case ABC goes away, 897 00:38:37,098 --> 00:38:39,260 they keep their cable channel. 898 00:38:39,260 --> 00:38:42,763 But like, nobody's watching ABC on broadcast anyway. 899 00:38:42,763 --> 00:38:43,763 Like. 900 00:38:43,497 --> 00:38:45,661 Well, and this is the thing too, 901 00:38:45,661 --> 00:38:48,186 and they talk about this on the Vergecast a lot, 902 00:38:48,186 --> 00:38:53,456 the FCC has control over over-the-air broadcasts, 903 00:38:53,456 --> 00:38:54,758 namely cable TV. 904 00:38:55,408 --> 00:38:56,408 Well, they don't hold 905 00:38:56,149 --> 00:38:59,521 on just to be clear, they do not have control of the over the air broadcast, 906 00:38:58,335 --> 00:38:59,335 Not control. 907 00:38:59,521 --> 00:39:03,094 they have control of the airwaves that those broadcasts use, 908 00:39:03,094 --> 00:39:04,556 which is a very separate thing. 909 00:39:04,556 --> 00:39:09,880 And it's there should be a the entire point is those two things are distinct. 910 00:39:09,880 --> 00:39:13,583 They license broadcast spectrum to broadcasters. 911 00:39:13,583 --> 00:39:17,266 And those broadcasters have a First Amendment right to do whatever they will 912 00:39:17,266 --> 00:39:18,978 not whatever they want. But they you know, 913 00:39:18,978 --> 00:39:21,950 you can't use a broadcast over the air broadcast to show pornography 914 00:39:21,950 --> 00:39:22,950 or something like that, right? 915 00:39:22,891 --> 00:39:23,932 There are some standards. 916 00:39:24,156 --> 00:39:27,376 But the point is, because it goes into everyone's home and they don't want it to, 917 00:39:26,579 --> 00:39:27,579 Right, right, 918 00:39:27,376 --> 00:39:31,436 yeah. But they do not have control over what's on those broadcasts. 919 00:39:31,436 --> 00:39:34,436 But Brendan Carr thinks that he does because he has this one lever, 920 00:39:34,436 --> 00:39:36,076 which is the licenses so he can, 921 00:39:36,076 --> 00:39:37,416 it's a real nice channel you got there. 922 00:39:37,416 --> 00:39:38,688 It'd be a shame if something happened to it. 923 00:39:38,793 --> 00:39:43,236 Right. And I just, the one point to just keep remembering is that most people, 924 00:39:43,236 --> 00:39:49,559 just percentage-wise, are not watching this content on broadcast television. 925 00:39:49,559 --> 00:39:54,472 And the FCC and Brendan Carr does not have the ability to affect anything 926 00:39:54,472 --> 00:39:57,924 on the internet. And so YouTube, 927 00:39:57,924 --> 00:40:01,436 TikTok, Instagram, where a lot of this stuff, 928 00:40:01,436 --> 00:40:06,279 like that Jimmy Kimmel skit, it's got like four or five million views on YouTube. 929 00:40:06,899 --> 00:40:11,835 That would be unaffected by anything that the FCC does because they don't have 930 00:40:12,296 --> 00:40:13,597 influence over the internet. 931 00:40:13,678 --> 00:40:19,005 Also watching an ABC channel broadcast on YouTube TV or Hulu, 932 00:40:19,005 --> 00:40:23,180 which is owned by Disney. They have their own TV streaming service. 933 00:40:20,807 --> 00:40:23,219 Right. They have their own live streaming service. 934 00:40:23,219 --> 00:40:24,219 Right, 935 00:40:23,479 --> 00:40:24,780 exactly. Yeah, it's unaffected. 936 00:40:24,780 --> 00:40:27,983 So we will see what happens in the next few days, 937 00:40:27,983 --> 00:40:30,505 but tenuous. Tenuous. 938 00:40:29,980 --> 00:40:30,980 We will, 939 00:40:30,600 --> 00:40:32,680 here's the thing, we already know Brendan Carr is a dummy. 940 00:40:32,680 --> 00:40:35,744 We will know an awful lot about Disney in the next couple of days. 941 00:40:36,533 --> 00:40:37,893 That's a good point. That's a good point. 942 00:40:37,893 --> 00:40:41,453 So thank you. This has been a syndicated portion of Brendan Carr's 943 00:40:41,453 --> 00:40:45,353 a dummy podcast on a podcast. Fully admit, 944 00:40:41,508 --> 00:40:44,367 Ours was not as good as the VirgCast will be in two days. 945 00:40:45,353 --> 00:40:48,453 go listen to that, but it's important. 946 00:40:48,453 --> 00:40:52,213 I wanted to mention it. also back to AI, 947 00:40:52,213 --> 00:40:54,193 Anthropic and the Department of Defense. 948 00:40:54,193 --> 00:40:56,813 If you have not been following the saga, 949 00:40:56,813 --> 00:41:01,753 Anthropic was deemed a supply chain risk because the Pentagon wanted 950 00:41:01,753 --> 00:41:04,993 to use Claude and Anthropic's AI models. 951 00:41:05,824 --> 00:41:08,858 to do whatever they wanted. And Anthropix said, 952 00:41:08,858 --> 00:41:12,424 we need guardrails on mass surveillance of the American people 953 00:41:12,825 --> 00:41:15,128 and autonomous weapon control. 954 00:41:15,164 --> 00:41:16,164 Yeah, you can't kill 955 00:41:15,993 --> 00:41:17,398 people without a human being involved. 956 00:41:17,823 --> 00:41:19,594 They said, yeah, we need these guardrails. 957 00:41:19,594 --> 00:41:22,175 When Anthropic said we need those guardrails, 958 00:41:22,175 --> 00:41:24,806 the Department of Defense, Pete Hexeth said, 959 00:41:24,806 --> 00:41:27,687 well, we're going to deem you a supply chain risk. 960 00:41:27,687 --> 00:41:30,639 And they did. The US government literally deemed them a supply chain risk, 961 00:41:30,639 --> 00:41:33,510 which is the one thing they can do that would limit the ability 962 00:41:33,510 --> 00:41:36,822 of other corporations to use products from Anthropic, 963 00:41:36,822 --> 00:41:38,622 even companies like Apple and Google. 964 00:41:38,622 --> 00:41:44,205 Anthropic has sued. And so there is now a court case going through whether or not... 965 00:41:44,661 --> 00:41:45,841 They're actually a supply chain risk, 966 00:41:45,841 --> 00:41:47,121 whether that designation can stand. 967 00:41:47,121 --> 00:41:50,661 And in the meantime, everybody can keep using Claude how they want because it's 968 00:41:50,661 --> 00:41:55,541 being litigated and the companies can't be stopped right now by this litigation. 969 00:41:55,541 --> 00:42:02,401 Well, Axios had a scoop, which that the NSA is actually using anthropics mythos. 970 00:42:02,401 --> 00:42:04,461 You remember that model so powerful, 971 00:42:04,461 --> 00:42:10,301 the general public can't use it despite the supply chain risk designation. 972 00:42:10,301 --> 00:42:12,761 And so it seems as though 973 00:42:13,265 --> 00:42:17,367 even though the Pentagon and White House said we need to blacklist this company 974 00:42:17,389 --> 00:42:21,812 because of supply chain risk, it seems as though because they made a model that's 975 00:42:21,812 --> 00:42:26,896 so good, they're like, well, maybe we actually want to use you, 976 00:42:26,896 --> 00:42:29,739 even though we're not whatever. 977 00:42:29,739 --> 00:42:33,052 And so this Axios article and through others, 978 00:42:33,052 --> 00:42:35,814 it looks like the White House and the Department of Defense are trying 979 00:42:35,814 --> 00:42:40,328 to save some face and figure out how they can maneuver maybe not pushing 980 00:42:40,328 --> 00:42:41,929 so hard on the supply chain risk. 981 00:42:42,313 --> 00:42:45,909 designation that they've already stated and figure out how they 982 00:42:45,909 --> 00:42:50,247 can bring Anthropic back into the fold of the Department of Defense. 983 00:42:51,248 --> 00:42:52,248 Yeah, 984 00:42:51,628 --> 00:42:54,189 the only thing I want to say about this is this is it. 985 00:42:54,189 --> 00:42:58,130 We live in a world right now that is entirely governed by theater. 986 00:42:58,130 --> 00:43:02,811 None of that, we are not governed in a world and I don't literally mean 987 00:43:02,811 --> 00:43:04,752 the government. I just mean in general, 988 00:43:04,752 --> 00:43:09,453 we are not governed in this world by serious people. 989 00:43:04,797 --> 00:43:05,797 In general, 990 00:43:09,453 --> 00:43:12,424 And I mean that in like every sense of that, 991 00:43:12,424 --> 00:43:14,625 like we talked about Sam Altman's letter. 992 00:43:14,625 --> 00:43:17,776 I don't think he was being a serious person when he posted like some of that stuff. 993 00:43:17,776 --> 00:43:18,776 We are just. 994 00:43:18,746 --> 00:43:23,238 Like it is so hard to take any of this seriously because it's all theater 995 00:43:23,758 --> 00:43:26,299 and that's we have not, you know, 996 00:43:26,299 --> 00:43:27,680 we've been experiencing it for a little while, 997 00:43:27,680 --> 00:43:30,601 but that is not the way the world has typically operated in the past. 998 00:43:30,601 --> 00:43:34,212 People typically operate like you can take someone at their word and 999 00:43:34,212 --> 00:43:36,794 you can reason through things and you have bad actors. 1000 00:43:36,794 --> 00:43:41,085 It's just usually the bad actors were not in positions like everywhere. 1001 00:43:41,085 --> 00:43:45,217 What I mean by bad actors, I just mean people who are not reliable narrators. 1002 00:43:45,217 --> 00:43:47,438 Right. And so like Daria Amadei. 1003 00:43:47,568 --> 00:43:50,514 I wouldn't say he's exactly a super reliable narrator, 1004 00:43:50,514 --> 00:43:53,720 right? Pete Hagseth super, super not a reliable narrator. 1005 00:43:53,720 --> 00:43:56,245 Like you cannot have it both ways. 1006 00:43:56,245 --> 00:44:00,002 But the thing is, you can if there's no one who can stop 1007 00:44:01,468 --> 00:44:06,951 Right. So, and I'll also throw one more name into the same situation, 1008 00:44:06,951 --> 00:44:11,673 which is when Anthropoc was deemed a supply chain risk by the White House, 1009 00:44:11,673 --> 00:44:16,466 two company, three companies rushed in to fill the void, 1010 00:44:16,466 --> 00:44:19,258 the power vacuum. They were OpenAI, 1011 00:44:19,258 --> 00:44:22,879 XAI, and Google. All three of them were like, 1012 00:44:22,879 --> 00:44:25,241 we'll do it. We don't care how you use. 1013 00:44:24,122 --> 00:44:25,647 Yeah, not serious people. 1014 00:44:25,241 --> 00:44:28,182 And again, I think this goes to your point. 1015 00:44:28,182 --> 00:44:31,124 It's like the supply chain risk designation. 1016 00:44:31,654 --> 00:44:36,747 It's like a threat more than an actual ~ danger. 1017 00:44:36,747 --> 00:44:39,309 Like this is a dangerous thing that we need to, 1018 00:44:38,522 --> 00:44:41,846 It's a negotiating tactic. It's literally just a negotiating tactic. 1019 00:44:39,309 --> 00:44:41,491 it's a negotiating tactic. Thank you. 1020 00:44:41,491 --> 00:44:43,752 Right. And that's what all these things are. 1021 00:44:43,752 --> 00:44:49,296 And Anthropic surely would want to deal with the US government for the money. 1022 00:44:49,296 --> 00:44:52,508 Because remember, ~ none of these companies are profitable yet, 1023 00:44:52,508 --> 00:44:55,661 except Google. Because AI is not Google's main business. 1024 00:44:55,661 --> 00:44:59,633 But Anthropic, OpenAI, XAI, none of these companies are profitable. 1025 00:44:59,633 --> 00:45:00,633 So any deal, 1026 00:45:00,717 --> 00:45:05,199 That means money coming in is what they want slash need. 1027 00:45:05,199 --> 00:45:07,431 And so when Anthropocles deemed the supply chain risk, 1028 00:45:07,431 --> 00:45:08,441 Google was like, hey, we'll do it. 1029 00:45:08,441 --> 00:45:12,383 And so much so that the Wall Street Journal reported just yesterday that Google 1030 00:45:12,383 --> 00:45:15,945 cleared the Pentagon to use AI tools in classified settings, 1031 00:45:15,945 --> 00:45:19,287 possibly even without the restrictions about mass surveillance 1032 00:45:19,607 --> 00:45:26,161 and autonomous weapons. And the employees at Google are actually petitioning Sundar 1033 00:45:26,161 --> 00:45:28,152 Pichai. I think there's a petition right now. 1034 00:45:28,520 --> 00:45:30,942 There's like almost a thousand signers. 1035 00:45:30,942 --> 00:45:34,335 It was like 900 something last count I saw but Google employees 1036 00:45:34,335 --> 00:45:36,307 are literally petitioning soon to retire listen Hey, 1037 00:45:36,307 --> 00:45:40,770 don't allow them to do this without any guardrails like please just 1038 00:45:40,770 --> 00:45:46,505 put the guardrails in and this Like you're saying some of this is theater Some 1039 00:45:46,505 --> 00:45:49,938 of this also like I wonder How dangerous is it? 1040 00:45:49,938 --> 00:45:55,223 You know if people inside the company working at Google Don't want that their models 1041 00:45:55,223 --> 00:45:56,624 being used in this way like what? 1042 00:45:57,406 --> 00:45:59,017 you know, not to be like a doomsday-ish, 1043 00:45:59,017 --> 00:46:00,187 but like, what is the risk? Like, 1044 00:46:00,187 --> 00:46:04,158 what are they actually feeling internally about this? 1045 00:46:04,158 --> 00:46:07,559 Is it just a moral thing? They don't think it should be used in this way, 1046 00:46:07,559 --> 00:46:09,850 like for mass surveillance? Is it actually a danger thing? 1047 00:46:09,850 --> 00:46:14,862 But again, it's the push and pull of the theater aspect 1048 00:46:14,862 --> 00:46:18,883 and the threats versus just the money grab from the other side. 1049 00:46:18,883 --> 00:46:20,263 It just doesn't feel like a good, 1050 00:46:20,263 --> 00:46:22,584 good setup. Doesn't feel like a good 1051 00:46:22,960 --> 00:46:25,065 Yeah, it doesn't seem good. None of it seems great. 1052 00:46:25,554 --> 00:46:26,554 Yeah, 1053 00:46:26,364 --> 00:46:30,166 so I I feel like that's important news like it's just what's going on 1054 00:46:30,166 --> 00:46:33,107 out there I imagine like next election cycle, 1055 00:46:33,107 --> 00:46:37,929 which would be you know, the next presidential election is 2028 Like AI 1056 00:46:37,929 --> 00:46:40,590 has got to be a huge part of that campaign. 1057 00:46:40,590 --> 00:46:42,271 I imagine two years from now 1058 00:46:42,702 --> 00:46:44,353 All right, well let's move on to some lighter news. 1059 00:46:44,353 --> 00:46:45,853 I'm curious your thoughts on this. 1060 00:46:45,853 --> 00:46:50,235 Apple introduced a new App Store subscription model. 1061 00:46:50,235 --> 00:46:53,596 So up until now, you you could pay for an app monthly. 1062 00:46:53,596 --> 00:46:56,718 You can pay for an app annually and typically save a little money. 1063 00:46:56,718 --> 00:46:58,238 Sometimes there are lifetime purchases. 1064 00:46:58,238 --> 00:47:00,139 Well now there's another option. 1065 00:47:00,139 --> 00:47:02,660 It's being tested in several countries, 1066 00:47:02,660 --> 00:47:08,222 not the US yet. But this is a 12-month commitment subscription, 1067 00:47:08,222 --> 00:47:09,443 meaning if you... 1068 00:47:09,743 --> 00:47:14,263 don't want to pay the annual price of like $30 and you just want to pay 1069 00:47:14,263 --> 00:47:20,683 the $3 a month, you can commit for a cheaper price and just pay that 1070 00:47:20,683 --> 00:47:22,403 but commit to paying it for 12 months. 1071 00:47:22,403 --> 00:47:24,523 Which feels like, I don't know, 1072 00:47:24,523 --> 00:47:28,463 cell phone contract-ish? oh. 1073 00:47:26,175 --> 00:47:28,142 No, it's Adobe. This is Adobe's model. 1074 00:47:28,142 --> 00:47:29,142 It's like, well, 1075 00:47:28,593 --> 00:47:31,774 you can pay monthly, but you've signed up for I don't like anything about this, 1076 00:47:31,774 --> 00:47:32,774 Stephen. 1077 00:47:33,129 --> 00:47:34,980 I didn't feel great about it either. 1078 00:47:34,980 --> 00:47:40,911 I understand for developers maybe it would maybe 1079 00:47:40,911 --> 00:47:45,803 it would create a better conversion to paying customers. 1080 00:47:45,803 --> 00:47:50,814 But I also feel like if someone doesn't see the value in the app and wants 1081 00:47:50,814 --> 00:47:55,556 to pay annually forcing them to pay monthly and then not be able to get 1082 00:47:55,556 --> 00:47:58,227 out of that I feel like people would be madder. 1083 00:47:58,227 --> 00:47:59,487 People would be more mad. 1084 00:47:58,517 --> 00:47:59,558 Yeah, I don't I don't that's why 1085 00:47:59,558 --> 00:48:02,369 I don't like anything about this is because the user experience and as 1086 00:48:02,369 --> 00:48:03,458 you said for three weeks in a row, 1087 00:48:03,458 --> 00:48:07,302 I'm apparently a developer. I just I don't think this is a good idea because 1088 00:48:07,302 --> 00:48:10,834 you just create the possibility of a bad experience for people. 1089 00:48:10,834 --> 00:48:12,775 And I mean, I know Apple is trying. 1090 00:48:12,775 --> 00:48:14,506 Apple is definitely doing more than Adobe. 1091 00:48:14,506 --> 00:48:16,497 Adobe has had to start doing more. 1092 00:48:16,497 --> 00:48:19,618 Apple is at least trying to tell you that the subscription you're getting this price 1093 00:48:19,618 --> 00:48:22,220 because you've agreed to pay this price for an entire year. 1094 00:48:22,220 --> 00:48:27,303 But even still, I just don't like the idea that you are trying to lock someone into 1095 00:48:27,303 --> 00:48:28,303 something like 1096 00:48:28,247 --> 00:48:30,627 that and it has nothing to do with like the price difference. 1097 00:48:30,627 --> 00:48:35,547 I mean, you're right. The idea is you charge $5 a month or $50 a year or hey, 1098 00:48:35,547 --> 00:48:37,987 because you're getting two months for free essentially or somewhere 1099 00:48:37,987 --> 00:48:41,327 in between there, you're to pay $4 a month or whatever. 1100 00:48:41,327 --> 00:48:45,207 Like, I just don't think it's a I just I don't think it's a good idea. 1101 00:48:45,207 --> 00:48:48,727 And I think it's a I understand why Apple is doing it because it 1102 00:48:48,727 --> 00:48:50,527 is probably going to convert much better. 1103 00:48:50,527 --> 00:48:52,027 I just don't think it's worth it. 1104 00:48:52,471 --> 00:48:54,482 And also, there might be, again, 1105 00:48:54,482 --> 00:48:59,203 talking about cost of things, like the five-star reviews in the middle 1106 00:48:59,203 --> 00:49:01,934 of someone's 12-month cycle, if they can't get out of paying monthly, 1107 00:49:01,887 --> 00:49:03,796 Yeah, absolutely. 1108 00:49:01,934 --> 00:49:03,415 they're going to leave you a one-star review. 1109 00:49:03,415 --> 00:49:08,237 And I imagine as developer, you can not have this feature on. 1110 00:49:08,237 --> 00:49:10,418 I imagine you could turn this type of payment off. 1111 00:49:10,418 --> 00:49:13,099 I would not be inclined to do this kind of thing. 1112 00:49:13,659 --> 00:49:14,659 Well, I guarantee 1113 00:49:14,640 --> 00:49:17,862 that you don't have to use this because I have set up some subscriptions. 1114 00:49:17,862 --> 00:49:21,093 And let me tell you, it's the most onerous thing I've ever had to go through. 1115 00:49:21,093 --> 00:49:23,525 And I've had to root canals. And this is like, 1116 00:49:23,525 --> 00:49:27,457 it was figuring out how to do all of that was the hardest part 1117 00:49:27,457 --> 00:49:31,360 of this entire experience. And so I guarantee you that this is not just going 1118 00:49:29,145 --> 00:49:30,145 Yeah. 1119 00:49:31,360 --> 00:49:32,440 to be a thing that's automatic, 1120 00:49:32,440 --> 00:49:33,551 you would have to create 1121 00:49:34,379 --> 00:49:37,651 monthly subscription with a 12 month commitment and set a price for it 1122 00:49:37,651 --> 00:49:39,561 and attach it to the app and all that kind of stuff. 1123 00:49:39,353 --> 00:49:40,353 Yeah. 1124 00:49:39,561 --> 00:49:42,825 That's fine. But so the good news is Apple is not going to just start offering your 1125 00:49:42,825 --> 00:49:45,457 customers some kind of discount. 1126 00:49:43,915 --> 00:49:45,356 Right, right, right, yeah. 1127 00:49:46,017 --> 00:49:48,398 Yeah, so that was weird. Also, 1128 00:49:48,398 --> 00:49:53,541 Elon Musk has sued OpenAI and the trial is now going on right now. 1129 00:49:53,541 --> 00:49:56,543 Elon Musk actually took the witness stand earlier this week. 1130 00:49:56,543 --> 00:50:01,307 Musk was a co-founder of OpenAI and he was claiming that Altman 1131 00:50:01,527 --> 00:50:05,950 and co-founder Greg Brockman tricked him into giving the company money only 1132 00:50:05,950 --> 00:50:08,632 to turn their backs on their aspirational goal. 1133 00:50:08,632 --> 00:50:13,485 Elon Musk is apparently mad that they went into a for-profit structure. 1134 00:50:13,955 --> 00:50:15,618 He feels like opening out was started to be, 1135 00:50:15,618 --> 00:50:20,006 you know, very lofty humanitarian aspirational goals. 1136 00:50:20,006 --> 00:50:23,071 And so he's suing. What is the word is looting? 1137 00:50:23,071 --> 00:50:24,915 Just because he feels like. 1138 00:50:24,375 --> 00:50:25,375 polluting a charity, 1139 00:50:25,235 --> 00:50:26,235 I think he's saying. 1140 00:50:26,945 --> 00:50:29,701 looting a charity. ~ That's what he claims. 1141 00:50:29,701 --> 00:50:33,470 Elon Musk is claiming Sam Altman is looting a charity. 1142 00:50:33,470 --> 00:50:35,975 And look, even though I'm paying for Bloomberg, 1143 00:50:35,975 --> 00:50:37,449 look at this, look at this, Jason. 1144 00:50:37,643 --> 00:50:41,829 Yeah, Elon Musk, who notably all the money he's ever given to charity 1145 00:50:41,829 --> 00:50:42,851 are his own charities. 1146 00:50:43,535 --> 00:50:46,555 That is a detail, yes. That is the thing. 1147 00:50:46,555 --> 00:50:48,935 So anyway, he took the stand. He was, 1148 00:50:48,935 --> 00:50:51,715 you know, Elon Musk-y on the stand. 1149 00:50:51,715 --> 00:50:53,415 You can read the whole Verge article about it, 1150 00:50:53,415 --> 00:50:57,195 but that case is going on right now amongst many other that OpenAI are in. 1151 00:50:57,195 --> 00:51:01,055 Like, I think the New York Times and the OpenAI are still in a court case about 1152 00:51:01,055 --> 00:51:02,275 copyright and all that kind of stuff, 1153 00:51:02,275 --> 00:51:04,115 so we'll have to see how all that shakes out. 1154 00:51:04,115 --> 00:51:07,515 And you wrote an article about the MacBook Neo. 1155 00:51:07,515 --> 00:51:10,795 I didn't want to share. You've written a few. 1156 00:51:08,823 --> 00:51:10,484 I've written a few lately, actually. 1157 00:51:10,795 --> 00:51:12,335 Does MacBook Neo still do numbers? 1158 00:51:12,642 --> 00:51:13,642 writing about the MacBook Neo. 1159 00:51:13,623 --> 00:51:16,475 ~ I think there's still a lot of people who are very curious about 1160 00:51:16,475 --> 00:51:19,748 it about the MacBook Neo. And so I did actually wrote two, 1161 00:51:19,748 --> 00:51:24,292 two MacBook Neo stories in like the last five days or something like that. 1162 00:51:24,292 --> 00:51:27,895 I, and I think that there's a lot of people, 1163 00:51:24,722 --> 00:51:26,398 It's a hot product. It's a hot product. 1164 00:51:27,895 --> 00:51:30,517 one of them was like, I finally figured out who the MacBook Neo is for, 1165 00:51:30,517 --> 00:51:32,649 right? Spoiler alert, all of you listening, 1166 00:51:32,649 --> 00:51:34,090 it's great. Laptop buy one if you want, 1167 00:51:34,090 --> 00:51:36,222 but it's not for you. Like that's like fine, 1168 00:51:36,222 --> 00:51:37,743 buy the MacBook Air or whatever. 1169 00:51:37,986 --> 00:51:38,986 Yeah. 1170 00:51:38,587 --> 00:51:41,929 But I think that what the reason I wrote this article is I think it tells 1171 00:51:41,929 --> 00:51:43,910 us a lot about we actually had this whole conversation. 1172 00:51:43,910 --> 00:51:47,031 So I'll make this super quick about John Terneson having an opinion. 1173 00:51:44,792 --> 00:51:45,792 Yeah. 1174 00:51:47,031 --> 00:51:52,383 What the trick is not how well are you able to figure out what 1175 00:51:52,383 --> 00:51:57,716 to include in a product the compromises the trick is like how do you know that 1176 00:51:57,716 --> 00:52:01,617 we can cut certain things because you could cut anything down and just offer junk. 1177 00:52:01,617 --> 00:52:03,948 We've seen Windows PCs do this for a long time. 1178 00:52:02,530 --> 00:52:03,530 Right. 1179 00:52:03,948 --> 00:52:05,309 They're 500 bucks. They're junk. 1180 00:52:06,003 --> 00:52:09,424 What was important is knowing the difference between where we shouldn't compromise. 1181 00:52:09,424 --> 00:52:11,625 And so this laptop is made out of aluminum. 1182 00:52:11,625 --> 00:52:16,807 They're reusing the iPad Air Magic keyboard essentially in this 1183 00:52:16,807 --> 00:52:19,909 and people like that. It's not as nice as a MacBook Pro, 1184 00:52:18,168 --> 00:52:21,055 Yeah, people like it. It's nice, 1185 00:52:19,909 --> 00:52:24,491 but it's proven, it works. It's still a retina display, 1186 00:52:21,055 --> 00:52:22,055 it's good. 1187 00:52:24,491 --> 00:52:26,271 right? It's not as good of a display. 1188 00:52:26,271 --> 00:52:28,742 The trackpad is not as good, but it's a good track. 1189 00:52:28,742 --> 00:52:31,974 Like they figured out where those compromises should be. 1190 00:52:31,974 --> 00:52:34,975 And that's why I think that we should be optimistic about. 1191 00:52:35,821 --> 00:52:39,252 the ability of John Turner to continue to deliver because he seems 1192 00:52:39,252 --> 00:52:41,129 to understand what those compromises should be. 1193 00:52:41,423 --> 00:52:43,603 Yeah, exactly. That's good. All right, 1194 00:52:43,603 --> 00:52:47,563 the last two things quickly. YouTube is testing an AI search function, 1195 00:52:47,563 --> 00:52:49,903 which you would think it already has this, 1196 00:52:49,903 --> 00:52:53,143 but this is actually going to show you like guided answers where if 1197 00:52:53,143 --> 00:52:55,383 you wanted to plan a trip or whatever, 1198 00:52:55,383 --> 00:52:57,963 I feel like I don't know why this is always the example that all of these things 1199 00:52:57,963 --> 00:52:59,383 use is like, I'm going to plan a trip. 1200 00:52:59,243 --> 00:53:00,243 Yeah. 1201 00:52:59,383 --> 00:53:02,863 It's going to show you not only video results, 1202 00:53:02,863 --> 00:53:07,683 but also just information about the trip and maybe like points 1203 00:53:07,683 --> 00:53:09,083 of interest and things like that. 1204 00:53:09,083 --> 00:53:10,482 And basically create this like 1205 00:53:11,278 --> 00:53:15,302 whole search result report about it? 1206 00:53:15,302 --> 00:53:19,536 I don't know. I don't know. It feels like they're trying to bring some 1207 00:53:18,432 --> 00:53:19,432 Either 1208 00:53:19,536 --> 00:53:23,020 of the search features of Google and Gemini into YouTube for some reason. 1209 00:53:22,901 --> 00:53:23,901 Yeah, 1210 00:53:23,331 --> 00:53:25,523 there. I don't know the reason that's always a demo though. 1211 00:53:25,523 --> 00:53:28,505 I do understand it's because none of these product people ever plan their own trips. 1212 00:53:28,505 --> 00:53:30,036 They all have assistants that do this for them. 1213 00:53:30,036 --> 00:53:33,008 And so this feels like the overwhelming thing that they couldn't possibly figure 1214 00:53:30,520 --> 00:53:31,520 Okay, that's fair. 1215 00:53:33,008 --> 00:53:35,515 out on their own. So what and everybody who watches this is like, 1216 00:53:35,515 --> 00:53:37,562 are you kidding? I buy I'm the one who like, 1217 00:53:37,562 --> 00:53:41,685 this is not actually hard. And I prefer to be the one who looks at 1218 00:53:38,466 --> 00:53:40,053 Yeah. Yeah. 1219 00:53:41,685 --> 00:53:44,977 the flights and the hotel and the whatever to make sure it's where I want to stay. 1220 00:53:45,676 --> 00:53:47,657 Yeah, fair enough. So yeah, that's the thing. 1221 00:53:47,657 --> 00:53:52,369 And finally, Meta has made a deal for solar power at night, 1222 00:53:52,369 --> 00:53:55,571 which shouldn't make sense, but it's with satellites. 1223 00:53:55,571 --> 00:54:01,964 And it's going to beam sun rays from the satellites or whatever down 1224 00:54:01,964 --> 00:54:03,895 to the Earth for solar power at night. 1225 00:54:03,895 --> 00:54:07,497 We're to have data centers and solar power from space. 1226 00:54:07,497 --> 00:54:09,078 There you go. 1227 00:54:09,335 --> 00:54:10,615 I don't understand what any of this means, 1228 00:54:10,615 --> 00:54:12,015 but it doesn't seem like a good idea. 1229 00:54:12,015 --> 00:54:17,635 It seems bad. It seems bad to be either beaming sunlight at night 1230 00:54:12,910 --> 00:54:14,390 What are you thinking, like a geostorm situation? 1231 00:54:17,635 --> 00:54:20,015 to places where the sunlight's not supposed to be, 1232 00:54:19,820 --> 00:54:22,186 Well, it's not bright, it's not like light. 1233 00:54:20,015 --> 00:54:25,675 or to be beaming 18,000 gigawatt hours of electricity from a satellite down 1234 00:54:25,675 --> 00:54:28,575 to earth also seems bad. I feel like I've seen that movie before and it 1235 00:54:28,575 --> 00:54:29,575 did not end well. 1236 00:54:29,772 --> 00:54:31,724 It was Geostorm. But I also feel like, 1237 00:54:31,724 --> 00:54:34,327 so they talk about this is not like visible light, 1238 00:54:34,327 --> 00:54:35,448 it's not gonna make it bright. 1239 00:54:35,448 --> 00:54:39,452 It also wouldn't hurt you if you were like direct hit with this beam, 1240 00:54:39,452 --> 00:54:43,016 I guess, from something about the kind of light it is. 1241 00:54:40,012 --> 00:54:41,012 How do they know? 1242 00:54:42,881 --> 00:54:43,881 They haven't done this yet. 1243 00:54:43,016 --> 00:54:45,490 I mean, no, they haven't done it yet, 1244 00:54:45,490 --> 00:54:48,172 but we know about light. Scientists know about light and stuff. 1245 00:54:50,700 --> 00:54:51,700 It's infrared light. 1246 00:54:50,773 --> 00:54:51,773 I mean, it's got meta, 1247 00:54:51,788 --> 00:54:53,303 meta's in the headline. It can't be good. 1248 00:54:53,303 --> 00:54:54,427 I'm just kidding. I'm kidding. 1249 00:54:54,427 --> 00:54:56,646 I'm just kidding. Sort of. 1250 00:54:56,087 --> 00:54:57,087 It's gonna be the 1251 00:54:57,048 --> 00:55:01,491 metaverse, but no, anyway. Yeah. 1252 00:54:59,115 --> 00:55:00,301 This is what they meant. Okay, 1253 00:55:00,301 --> 00:55:01,301 great. 1254 00:55:01,491 --> 00:55:03,731 All right, quick update for personal tech, 1255 00:55:03,731 --> 00:55:05,824 your app. What update you wanna give? 1256 00:55:04,075 --> 00:55:06,326 Yeah, yeah. 1257 00:55:06,326 --> 00:55:08,456 It's still cruising along. hoping to, 1258 00:55:08,456 --> 00:55:10,917 I'm hoping. Thank you to all of you who have been testing it. 1259 00:55:10,917 --> 00:55:12,657 Your feedback has been super valuable. 1260 00:55:12,657 --> 00:55:14,698 Even your Stephen, it has been very, 1261 00:55:14,698 --> 00:55:16,956 Stephen doesn't really give me feedback as much as feature requests, 1262 00:55:15,150 --> 00:55:17,796 Thank you. I have future requests. 1263 00:55:16,956 --> 00:55:19,239 which is fine. I wrote them all down and it's right there. 1264 00:55:17,796 --> 00:55:18,796 I have future requests. 1265 00:55:19,239 --> 00:55:22,720 Some of the listeners have given me very useful feedback and this is 1266 00:55:22,720 --> 00:55:27,341 why you beta test things because you can't possibly experience every edge case 1267 00:55:24,205 --> 00:55:25,205 Yeah. 1268 00:55:27,381 --> 00:55:30,812 on your own. And so that's been really helpful both on the iPhone. 1269 00:55:30,812 --> 00:55:32,163 There is an iPhone version of it. 1270 00:55:32,163 --> 00:55:33,663 And then, and I'm 1271 00:55:33,899 --> 00:55:38,004 The Mac version 1.0, once it makes it through app review, 1272 00:55:38,004 --> 00:55:40,387 will be available to people. There'll be a free app. 1273 00:55:40,387 --> 00:55:43,971 There is a subscription, not a 12 month commitment subscription. 1274 00:55:43,971 --> 00:55:45,954 You have my word, I will not do that. 1275 00:55:45,954 --> 00:55:47,836 There is an annual subscription option. 1276 00:55:46,019 --> 00:55:47,019 Yes. 1277 00:55:47,836 --> 00:55:53,233 And then I'm hoping to have the iPhone version out sometime after that. 1278 00:55:54,380 --> 00:55:58,361 very exciting. I am running both the Mac version and the iPhone version. 1279 00:55:58,361 --> 00:56:00,236 Last week you did not want to reveal the name. 1280 00:56:00,236 --> 00:56:01,450 Do you want to reveal the name this week? 1281 00:56:00,905 --> 00:56:01,905 yeah, it's 1282 00:56:01,516 --> 00:56:03,037 the name of the app is contextually, 1283 00:56:03,037 --> 00:56:05,399 which we haven't decided how to actually say. 1284 00:56:05,399 --> 00:56:07,400 But Stephen thinks that that's how I should say it. 1285 00:56:07,400 --> 00:56:10,493 So that's fine. It's it's one of those words that as I was trying to figure 1286 00:56:10,493 --> 00:56:11,714 out the name, I was like, that's perfect. 1287 00:56:11,714 --> 00:56:13,165 And then I started saying it. I'm like, 1288 00:56:13,165 --> 00:56:16,107 I don't know how to say this word because it could be like Khan, 1289 00:56:15,040 --> 00:56:17,196 No, it's contextly. Contextly. 1290 00:56:16,107 --> 00:56:19,530 but it could be contextually or contextually. 1291 00:56:17,196 --> 00:56:19,181 No, it's contextly. 1292 00:56:19,530 --> 00:56:20,821 I don't know. It doesn't matter. 1293 00:56:20,821 --> 00:56:22,873 That's the name of the app. ~ But yeah, 1294 00:56:22,873 --> 00:56:25,085 it's it's been it's been a fun process. 1295 00:56:25,085 --> 00:56:27,647 But more importantly, it literally is the app that I have wanted for 1296 00:56:27,647 --> 00:56:30,159 a very long time. And if other people want it, 1297 00:56:30,687 --> 00:56:32,519 You could use it as a notes app for free, 1298 00:56:32,519 --> 00:56:35,502 like forever. Like just, you could put all your notes in it. 1299 00:56:35,502 --> 00:56:38,375 You could do all the things and it would be super useful. 1300 00:56:38,375 --> 00:56:41,862 That's great. But also there's some cool features to it if your brain works 1301 00:56:41,862 --> 00:56:42,862 the way mine does. 1302 00:56:43,274 --> 00:56:46,656 It is super fun and I highly recommend. 1303 00:56:46,656 --> 00:56:49,863 So I'm running right now on Mac and on the iPhone and it'll be available soon. 1304 00:56:49,863 --> 00:56:52,047 You'll hear about here, but it's, 1305 00:56:52,047 --> 00:56:54,200 are you still accepting test flight people or you wanna? 1306 00:56:54,559 --> 00:56:57,724 At this point, probably not. I appreciate everybody who's been willing, 1307 00:56:57,724 --> 00:56:59,597 but it's not that I don't want it. 1308 00:56:59,597 --> 00:57:02,411 It's just, just to be candid, like every time it's like the process 1309 00:57:02,411 --> 00:57:06,137 of adding someone to the test flight gets kind of onerous and then, 1310 00:57:04,235 --> 00:57:05,235 Yeah. 1311 00:57:06,137 --> 00:57:08,040 and then addressing like, ~ shoot, 1312 00:57:08,040 --> 00:57:09,663 you're here. So anyway, so. 1313 00:57:09,773 --> 00:57:12,973 Alright, well it'll be available soon-ish. 1314 00:57:12,395 --> 00:57:15,742 Yeah, yeah. Hopefully in the next couple of weeks at the latest. 1315 00:57:12,973 --> 00:57:16,353 We'll announce it here, you'll hear about it. 1316 00:57:15,742 --> 00:57:18,337 So just squashing all the last bugs. 1317 00:57:16,353 --> 00:57:17,353 Next couple weeks of lateness. 1318 00:57:17,313 --> 00:57:21,333 Very cool. Alright, I want to talk a little bit more about AI in 1319 00:57:21,333 --> 00:57:26,553 the bonus episode because I have added some more MCP servers to Clawed 1320 00:57:26,553 --> 00:57:28,353 and actually found some more use cases. 1321 00:57:28,353 --> 00:57:31,993 But, last thing I'll mention here in the personal tech, 1322 00:57:31,993 --> 00:57:34,013 something for me. I got a bigger stream deck. 1323 00:57:34,013 --> 00:57:36,253 I don't know if you can see this, 1324 00:57:36,161 --> 00:57:37,161 I see this. 1325 00:57:36,253 --> 00:57:37,253 but... 1326 00:57:37,501 --> 00:57:42,705 I will link a picture. I got the Stream Deck plus XL and 1327 00:57:43,206 --> 00:57:48,450 I love it actually. I thought it would be too big and it'd be too many buttons 1328 00:57:44,981 --> 00:57:45,981 Mm-hmm. 1329 00:57:48,631 --> 00:57:54,565 but here's the thing. I was using my smaller Stream Deck for both running some 1330 00:57:54,565 --> 00:57:59,679 shortcuts and doing some audio hijack things and then I had to switch pages 1331 00:57:59,900 --> 00:58:05,244 if I wanted to control my video switcher or have some other controls like 1332 00:58:05,324 --> 00:58:06,324 CleanShotX. 1333 00:58:06,487 --> 00:58:11,921 type things and I realized if I use the big one and Elgato sent me this 1334 00:58:11,921 --> 00:58:15,753 big one to be clear I didn't buy the big one they sent it to me ~ but 1335 00:58:15,753 --> 00:58:18,295 now that I'm using it I probably would have bought it because I don't have 1336 00:58:18,295 --> 00:58:23,398 to page anything I don't have to switch profiles or switch pages every control that 1337 00:58:23,398 --> 00:58:27,601 I want is now visible all the time and they're visually different enough where 1338 00:58:27,601 --> 00:58:30,433 I have all like my video switcher controls in the bottom left all 1339 00:58:30,433 --> 00:58:35,917 my scenes for filming and recording in the upper left yeah lower lower left is 1340 00:58:36,206 --> 00:58:38,266 video switcher, upper left controls, 1341 00:58:38,266 --> 00:58:42,546 and then upper right is like screenshots and primary tech daily shortcuts, 1342 00:58:42,546 --> 00:58:45,306 and then lower right is Mac power user shortcuts. 1343 00:58:45,306 --> 00:58:49,086 And everything I need is now just like right there, 1344 00:58:49,086 --> 00:58:51,426 always ready to just hit a button and do it, 1345 00:58:51,426 --> 00:58:53,266 and I kind of love it. I just want to say that. 1346 00:58:52,663 --> 00:58:53,663 That's great. 1347 00:58:53,266 --> 00:58:56,206 I just want to say that. So we're to go record a quick bonus episode, 1348 00:58:56,206 --> 00:58:57,986 talk about some more AI tools, 1349 00:58:57,986 --> 00:58:59,886 and if you'd like to hear that, 1350 00:58:59,886 --> 00:59:02,526 get an ad-free version or hear the pre-show, 1351 00:59:02,526 --> 00:59:04,126 primary tech daily, all those benefits. 1352 00:59:04,429 --> 00:59:07,429 Click the I want chapters link down in the video show notes. 1353 00:59:07,429 --> 00:59:10,789 You can get it for $2.50 a month or $25 a year. 1354 00:59:10,789 --> 00:59:13,849 Leave us a five star rating and review in Apple Podcasts, 1355 00:59:13,849 --> 00:59:17,129 pour one out for Windows Phone or whatever old tech that you would, 1356 00:59:17,129 --> 00:59:19,489 that you remember fondly. Maybe you had an iPod Nano, 1357 00:59:19,489 --> 00:59:23,909 one of the corpulent variety. Let us know in the five star review. 1358 00:59:23,909 --> 00:59:26,669 Love to hear that as well. And you can watch us in Apple, 1359 00:59:26,669 --> 00:59:29,869 YouTube, Spotify, or Listen wherever you get your podcasts. 1360 00:59:29,869 --> 00:59:31,289 Thanks for listening. Thanks for watching. 1361 00:59:31,289 --> 00:59:32,289 We'll catch you next time.