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Rupert Isaacson: Welcome to Live Free
Ride Free, where we talk to people who

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have lived self-actualized lives on
their own terms, and find out how they

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got there, what they do, how we can
get there, what we can learn from them.

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How to live our best lives, find
our own definition of success,

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and most importantly, find joy.

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I'm your host, Rupert Isaacson.

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New York Times bestselling
author of the Horse Boy.

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Founder of New Trails Learning
Systems and long ride home.com.

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You can find details of all our programs
and shows on Rupert isaacson.com.

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Welcome back to live free ride free.

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Today we are going to Look behind the
scenes of the hollywood movies that

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you've been watching over the decades
where Animals show up and do incredible

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things and you take it for granted when
you're watching because you're just

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into the story But of course, there's a
person often teams of people making sure

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that that You Process with the animals.

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works and that's not easy
because you don't just give

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them a script and they follow.

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Terry Keebler has spent a life
in this industry in Hollywood.

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However she came to a realization partway
through her career that made her take

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it in a radically different direction.

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And I think if we want to define
self actualization you'll see

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with Terry's story how that is.

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A prime illustration.

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So, and it sort of starts
a little bit with a lion.

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But Terry, before we go and meet this
lion, can you just tell us a little bit

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who you are and welcome to the show?

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Terry Kuebler: Thank you.

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Thank you.

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I'm glad to be here.

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Yes.

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And, and, and I'm glad the way that
you're approaching that because most

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people want to, you know, hear like,
well, what actors did you work with?

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And what, what was, you know,
what got you into that field?

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And my, my background, what got me
into that field was my love of animals.

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I, I was always drawn to animals,
had horses my entire life.

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I was, had moved down to the
Los Angeles area and feared, you

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know, that I was going to hate it.

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I moved down there when I met my husband
and was involved in the horse racing

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industry, cause he was a harness driver.

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So I thought, ah, I don't know
what I'm going to do in Los Angeles

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and working through a wildlife.

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Rescue.

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I was introduced to the industry of,
of the Hollywood animal training.

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And that was a fantastic fit for being
able to work with not only domestic

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animals, but I ended up working with
a company who was a full zoo compound.

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It had exotics and, and
I was able to work with.

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Wolves and, and bears and the big cats and
so this was a fantastic fit for me because

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it became about developing really strong
relationships with the animals because the

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work required the ability to communicate
non verbally and from a distance.

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So I had to learn how to project
safety to the animal, regardless

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of what was going on around them.

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And that just, that required a
deep connection, which really

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spoke to who I am as a person and
my desire to be around animals.

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In the

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process of this, in the middle of my
career, so I was, I was pretty much

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the normal mindset of, yes, I was
learning how to train from the animals.

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And yet I was the trainer, I was the head
of the hierarchy, I was, you know, it was.

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You do what I want and, and, and that
was my mindset and I tell the story

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sometimes of, of working with the eagle
and, and I was training the eagle to fly.

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Like, how, how, how ridiculous is that?

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You know, what an eagle.

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And, and, and but that was the mindset.

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And so in the middle of all
of this, I had a near death

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experience when I had my daughter.

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I I had a number of aneurysms
and had a near death experience

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that shifted my whole perception.

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Of when I came back, really being a seeker
of of spiritual connection and having

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a teacher show up, you know, I always
went with the when the students ready,

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the teacher will appear and so I was.

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Walking out in the woods one day and I was
begging for, you know, where's my teacher?

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Well, I'm ready.

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I'm ready.

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I need a teacher.

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I need, you know, someone to help me
connect these dots of why am I here?

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Why did I come back?

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All of it.

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And in the middle of
that, I heard a voice.

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Be quiet.

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And I was like, well, you
know, my mind just went crazy.

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What?

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I need answers.

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I need answers.

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It was like, be quiet.

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And as I got quiet, I realized I'm
walking with a 500 pound male lion.

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I'm walking out in the
woods with him at my side.

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And I looked down and he kind of
rolls his eyes up to me like, finally,

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it was just this huge aha moment of
in the voice in my head said, I'm

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sending you the best that I have.

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So this revelation of, oh, my teacher
is standing right next to me, how,

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you know, it was just this horrible
and like, oh my gosh, I'm so slow.

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How could it be more obvious?

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It's been a lion standing
right next to me.

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And so, yeah, yeah, it was, it was,
you know, it's like, talk about a

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board across the top of the head,
you know, like how dense are you?

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So it the journey from there was of
course, the animals that I'm blessed

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to be around are my spiritual gurus.

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My spiritual teachers.

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And then, you know, being able to
shift that perspective of being in awe

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of who they were as sentient beings
and what they had to teach humanity.

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So, shifting my entire perspective from
being the teacher to being the student.

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And that changed everything
in my work as well.

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It, you know, it, it just up
leveled my ability to Well, that was

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Rupert Isaacson: going to be my question.

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Was it then possible to get the
job done of showing up on set with

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an animal and delivering a result
with this sudden new mindset?

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Or did it make that, like,
suddenly not possible?

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Terry Kuebler: No, no, it, it, it made
it extremely possible in the way that

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now there was a bond of trust because
of the respect, because of the, you

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know, I'm here for you and I, I'm
just, because, Even with the horses,

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a question that always bothered me
was if you have a choice to do your

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own thing or do what I want you to do,
how does that, you know, how is that a

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choice that you're ever going to pick?

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And the answer came back of, I'm an animal
who is kind of captured in your world.

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And so if you have the ability
to set safe space for me.

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I want to be with you all day long,
you know, because yeah, because I,

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I, I'm in a cage or I'm bored or, or
I'm a horse in a stall or whatever.

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I, I want to get out and experience the
world, but I want to feel safe doing it.

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So, a bond of mutual respect.

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Was formed and so anytime they got
worried or in a new environment They

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were very dependent on me of okay.

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You're my safety unit, you know,
you're who I feel safe around So

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I'll do anything that you want
and enjoy it because I feel safe,

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Rupert Isaacson: right?

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I think that this is there's a lot of
questions I want to ask you about your

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near death experience and how you How
anyone possibly walks around the woods

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with a 500 pound lion and you just sort of
say these things off the car We're going

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to have to return to them in a minute.

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So don't worry listeners.

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I'm gonna make a talk in
more detail about this.

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But The, this is, I think, touching on
something which I thought we'd perhaps

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get into later in this interview, which
is that well, this conversation, which

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is that because I work with animals too,
I have noticed that animals like people

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rather have a sense of purpose and are
usually actually very happy to marry

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that sense of purpose with your sense
of purpose, provided you're listening

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to their likes, dislikes, sensory needs,

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going with the things
that they enjoy, right?

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Just like you would with people.

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And because this idea of consent,
you know, with animal, working

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with animals comes up so much now.

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And of course with domesticated
animals that are not wild.

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They could go feral in some cases,
but actually they've been hardwired

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to live with and deal with humans
for thousands of years, the species

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that we tend to interact with.

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A lion might be rather different actually,
but certainly horses, dogs, you know,

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that sort of thing, domestic animals.

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So I often find that the animals
will seek out adventures with me.

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But as you say, I came from a
mindset of you must be the boss.

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Because that was just the culture we
grew up in to a mindset of walk with

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me, but in order to make you feel
safe, let me play the leader here,

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because I do understand this monkey
world and I can make it safe for you.

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If we were in horse world, I hope you
would do the same for me, you know, and

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then I agree with you just sort of having
that attitude seems to make things go.

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So much better, but I want to scale back.

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Okay, first question.

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How do you walk around the
woods with a 500 pounds.

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I was in the woods this morning I
didn't see anyone walking around

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with 500 pound lions And you know,
so how does one even do that?

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Terry Kuebler: Well, that's, you know,
that was the wonderful part about the

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industry is that you had such a rapport.

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We would get the, like the
lion cubs when their eyes were

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closed and bottle raised them.

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And so you had a bond already.

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And there was just a, a, a regular routine
of you, you'd put a, you know, like a,

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a chain collar leash on them and take
them for walks so that they got exercise.

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So it was like working
a horse or whatever.

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You, you would take
them out and walk them.

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Rupert Isaacson: The horse
isn't naturally your predator.

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So would there not be a point in which
the big cat goes, actually, you know what?

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I love you, but I am hungry.

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Terry Kuebler: Yes, that there was
there was always that they were always

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a lion and that dealing with the
public not understanding that was.

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It's a very hard part of the job of
the public saying, well, obviously

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it's a tame lion and you're with
it so I can walk up and pet it.

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And that, that was one of the huge
energetic lessons that I got to

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learn from lions was to be able to,
my body began to be able to sense

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when their intent would change.

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Because they would be walking along, da,
da, da, you know, hi, we're just, we're

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just buddies here, and suddenly their
intention would go, you know what, I'm a,

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you know, you're, you, you could be food.

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And my body would respond
to that and feel it.

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And I'd go, ah, don't go there.

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And they go, Oh, okay.

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She knows.

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So it taught me, wow, there is
a physical response to intent.

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And I need to know more about
that because I want to take that.

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I want to take that back to horses of
what are they reading in my intentions?

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that feels either safe
or predatory to them.

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And so that, that was, it was
a, it was a wonderful learning

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experience for me because I was
lower on the food chain than a lion.

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And, and my body needed to, to relearn
how to read when their intention changed.

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Rupert Isaacson: They just taught
me through a safety protocol.

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When you go walking with a lion in
the woods, what Are you doing that

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by yourself or do you always have a
second person or something like that?

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Is there are there some sort of chains of?

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safety that you sort of need to abide by.

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So talk me through like
the nuts and bolts.

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How do you go walk?

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What do you do to stay safe
walking alone through the

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Terry Kuebler: woods?

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There always was a buddy system.

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You never, you never were alone.

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So you always had to have at
least two people with you.

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So

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Rupert Isaacson: when you had this
revelation and you were asking

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mentally, there were a couple of
other humans around, but just not

00:14:45.924 --> 00:14:46.954
involved in that conversation.

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Terry Kuebler: Right.

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That conversation was all in my head,

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which happens quite often.

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Rupert Isaacson: I know all about that.

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I'm sure.

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And when, when you had this revelation
with the lion and the lion sort of

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became Aslan and looked at you in
that way, were the other two people

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in any way aware of this, or was
this purely between you and the cat?

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Terry Kuebler: No, the the other two
people You know, we're, we're just

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paying attention to the environment
and, and, you know, they're, they're

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there as a safety net for it.

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Is there anything come any, any people
coming any, you know, anything we

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have to watch out for and, and for me.

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My entire attention is on
paying attention to the lion.

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Rupert Isaacson: Right, because
you can't let your attention wander

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if he suddenly decides to go.

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So

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Terry Kuebler: it's a practice
in being very, very present.

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Rupert Isaacson: Interesting.

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Terry Kuebler: Yeah,

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Rupert Isaacson: it must be.

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Yeah.

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Terry Kuebler: Yeah, you had to be because
the lion is waiting for you not to be

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Rupert Isaacson: right.

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Terry Kuebler: Even if he

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Rupert Isaacson: likes you.

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Terry Kuebler: Yes, I

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Rupert Isaacson: saw it's not personal.

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I'm just, you know, I just am a lion.

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Yeah.

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But thanks for all the milk bottles
that you gave me five years ago.

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Yeah.

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You

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Terry Kuebler: could be lunch.

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Rupert Isaacson: Okay.

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When you had this switch in your.

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relationship then with the animals
that you were working with on set?

00:16:25.424 --> 00:16:30.214
Did this show outwardly in your
training techniques and then did that

00:16:30.224 --> 00:16:35.184
bring questions or challenges from the
colleagues that you were working with?

00:16:35.414 --> 00:16:36.914
Or was it sort of invisible to them?

00:16:36.914 --> 00:16:40.694
Was it just like a private contract that
was between sort of you and God and you

00:16:40.694 --> 00:16:44.564
and the animals in terms of intention,
but outwardly it sort of looked the same?

00:16:46.544 --> 00:16:51.149
Terry Kuebler: I, I would
think I don't, I don't like to

00:16:51.199 --> 00:16:52.769
disparage anyone or something.

00:16:52.779 --> 00:16:58.549
It's just, it, it just, it changes
your level of where suddenly you

00:16:58.859 --> 00:17:01.679
start to question techniques.

00:17:02.169 --> 00:17:10.809
And, and, and the habitual thinking,
the habitual way of training where you

00:17:10.809 --> 00:17:13.759
go, I'm not willing to do that anymore.

00:17:15.339 --> 00:17:17.799
Rupert Isaacson: So what did
you, what did you stop doing?

00:17:18.719 --> 00:17:20.059
And did that bring resistance?

00:17:23.489 --> 00:17:30.219
Terry Kuebler: Well, I stopped being
of the hierarchy mindset of, of

00:17:30.229 --> 00:17:38.129
being forceful, of you have no say
in doing what I'm asking you to do.

00:17:39.339 --> 00:17:47.489
And so it was, it was, It changed my
training protocol to being more focused

00:17:47.529 --> 00:17:53.399
on setting up a situation where the
animal wanted to participate, rather

00:17:53.399 --> 00:17:59.989
than setting up a situation where if
you don't do this, you don't get fed.

00:18:00.279 --> 00:18:02.599
And so you'll do when
you get hungry enough.

00:18:03.299 --> 00:18:03.509
Okay.

00:18:03.539 --> 00:18:09.409
You know, that, that type of training
and, and, and it was just, it was so much

00:18:09.439 --> 00:18:17.429
more dependable in like onset situation
because if an animal were scared or were

00:18:17.429 --> 00:18:20.139
hungry, they weren't going to do anything.

00:18:21.289 --> 00:18:27.299
And so if you were dependent on that
for to get a certain set of behaviors.

00:18:27.964 --> 00:18:30.104
And, and, and the animal reached.

00:18:30.194 --> 00:18:32.924
Well, I'm not hungry anymore,
so I'm not going to do anything.

00:18:33.924 --> 00:18:40.914
You were done, you know, and, and in
Hollywood, they, they did train that way

00:18:40.914 --> 00:18:46.444
and that's why they depended so much on
so many lookalikes, we would have animals.

00:18:47.104 --> 00:18:51.264
Multiple animals to
play one role because I

00:18:51.744 --> 00:18:52.934
Rupert Isaacson: see because one animal

00:18:53.044 --> 00:18:54.704
Terry Kuebler: said I'm not working today.

00:18:54.704 --> 00:18:55.814
I'm not hungry

00:18:56.194 --> 00:18:56.544
Rupert Isaacson: Got it

00:18:57.374 --> 00:18:58.224
Terry Kuebler: You were screwed.

00:18:58.664 --> 00:19:00.624
Rupert Isaacson: Okay, so you
had to have five lines instead

00:19:00.624 --> 00:19:02.204
of one for the same, right?

00:19:02.224 --> 00:19:02.864
Just okay,

00:19:02.864 --> 00:19:09.539
Terry Kuebler: but if you had a lion
that was like I have a relationship

00:19:09.559 --> 00:19:15.189
with you and I will do it to please you,
then you were way ahead of the game.

00:19:16.359 --> 00:19:16.829
Rupert Isaacson: Got it.

00:19:17.799 --> 00:19:22.889
Terry Kuebler: But for instance, I
had the lion that I had this epiphany

00:19:22.889 --> 00:19:24.819
with that I had a relationship with.

00:19:25.349 --> 00:19:30.979
There was one event on a set where
he got really upset with another

00:19:30.979 --> 00:19:33.959
trainer and he was going to kill him.

00:19:34.229 --> 00:19:38.769
He went after him with the intent
to take him out because he was

00:19:38.769 --> 00:19:40.339
irritated with this trainer.

00:19:40.989 --> 00:19:46.129
And I was able to jump in front of
the lion and get eye contact with

00:19:46.129 --> 00:19:48.129
him and say, no, you may not do this.

00:19:48.559 --> 00:19:49.179
stop.

00:19:49.889 --> 00:19:56.189
And I was, he had two guys on lines
on the two big, huge muscle guys that

00:19:56.189 --> 00:19:57.809
he was just dragging along with him.

00:19:57.899 --> 00:19:58.989
They couldn't stop him.

00:19:59.469 --> 00:20:01.119
He was going to take guy down.

00:20:01.409 --> 00:20:02.749
And I jumped in front of him.

00:20:02.779 --> 00:20:06.529
And because I had a relationship
with him, I went stop.

00:20:07.019 --> 00:20:08.739
Rupert Isaacson: Am I allowed
to ask what movie that was?

00:20:09.049 --> 00:20:10.429
I know you don't want
to just get into that.

00:20:10.519 --> 00:20:11.909
Terry Kuebler: I, yeah, no.

00:20:13.099 --> 00:20:17.189
I don't even, I really don't even
remember and it's funny because I was,

00:20:17.679 --> 00:20:21.109
I do remember I was along on that.

00:20:22.129 --> 00:20:28.779
I was not even considered a trainer
on that, on that set because.

00:20:29.364 --> 00:20:35.644
The hierarchy on the sets was so
much, okay, we are working a big lion.

00:20:35.654 --> 00:20:38.694
Therefore we, we must have
big, huge men trainers.

00:20:40.314 --> 00:20:45.604
And so I, I volunteered to
go along to help out because.

00:20:46.689 --> 00:20:50.109
because I had a rapport with
this lion, but I was the

00:20:50.109 --> 00:20:52.239
Rupert Isaacson: lion being
required to do in that scene.

00:20:53.599 --> 00:20:58.319
Terry Kuebler: Well, this was, he was
just walking from one scene to another.

00:20:58.319 --> 00:21:03.899
He, they were just out walking him at that
point, but he became so irritated with

00:21:03.899 --> 00:21:08.434
this trainer who kept teasing him, which,
you know, Why would you tease a lot?

00:21:08.624 --> 00:21:08.894
Rupert Isaacson: Right.

00:21:08.894 --> 00:21:10.354
So that was my next question.

00:21:10.434 --> 00:21:12.294
What was going on with the teasing?

00:21:12.614 --> 00:21:16.094
How, so describe to me
what the trainer was doing.

00:21:16.814 --> 00:21:20.104
Terry Kuebler: Well, the trainer,
the trainer was actually going

00:21:20.224 --> 00:21:23.474
up and, and harassing him.

00:21:23.544 --> 00:21:24.934
And, and in what way

00:21:24.954 --> 00:21:26.864
Rupert Isaacson: though, like
poking him with a needle, like

00:21:27.134 --> 00:21:31.774
Terry Kuebler: grabbing, grabbing his
tail and, and, and coming up and, and

00:21:31.784 --> 00:21:35.224
like pretend biting him in the butt,
you know, with his hand, you know,

00:21:35.224 --> 00:21:39.484
like just going, and it was, Who knows?

00:21:39.504 --> 00:21:42.014
It was very much, what
the heck are you doing?

00:21:42.014 --> 00:21:43.734
Rupert Isaacson: Was he showing
off for somebody else or something?

00:21:44.344 --> 00:21:50.674
Terry Kuebler: I guess he just
had an ego of, I have no idea.

00:21:50.714 --> 00:21:53.454
Rupert Isaacson: Because presumably
this was a bloke who'd worked with

00:21:53.454 --> 00:21:56.384
lions before and knew that doing
something like that might be unwise.

00:21:56.384 --> 00:21:58.024
What do you think went through his head?

00:21:58.414 --> 00:22:00.844
That he thought, well, this would
be a good idea to do this right now.

00:22:02.914 --> 00:22:07.904
Terry Kuebler: No idea, because
it was so, like, unethical,

00:22:07.904 --> 00:22:11.004
un Like, what are you doing?

00:22:11.414 --> 00:22:11.774
Okay.

00:22:11.814 --> 00:22:16.434
And can you not read that you
are pissing this lion off?

00:22:16.464 --> 00:22:18.674
Why would you want to do that?

00:22:19.714 --> 00:22:30.009
You know, so Yeah, it was just there were
some trainers in in the business who were

00:22:30.359 --> 00:22:38.449
so Disconnected from reading the animal
that it was like, what are you thinking?

00:22:39.639 --> 00:22:39.819
Did

00:22:40.469 --> 00:22:43.139
Rupert Isaacson: trainers get taken
out from time to time because of this?

00:22:43.349 --> 00:22:47.809
Terry Kuebler: Oh, yes, you hear about
it all the time Trainer being attacked,

00:22:48.389 --> 00:22:50.459
you know, and and what happened?

00:22:50.939 --> 00:22:58.059
Well, this was one of those this guy was
gonna get eaten, you know, so so it was

00:22:58.289 --> 00:22:59.949
and it would have been the lion's fault

00:23:00.639 --> 00:23:03.269
Rupert Isaacson: you know, it's it's
interesting you say that because of course

00:23:03.269 --> 00:23:08.129
you and I share the horse world and i've
Owned and worked with a lot of stallions,

00:23:08.129 --> 00:23:13.269
which as you know can be aggressive and so
on so I can't imagine ever doing anything

00:23:13.279 --> 00:23:18.499
to sort of provoke that aggression because
right, you know You might have to deal

00:23:18.499 --> 00:23:21.014
with it anyway at some point So I mean
the last thing you want to do is you know

00:23:25.994 --> 00:23:30.004
Terry Kuebler: It's got to be an ego
thing because you have seen, I mean,

00:23:30.004 --> 00:23:35.914
in your probably probably work in on
sets and stuff, how sometimes on a

00:23:35.914 --> 00:23:40.644
horse, an actor will want to jack up
the horse so that he's rearing and mouth

00:23:40.644 --> 00:23:43.144
open and they think that looks cool.

00:23:43.604 --> 00:23:46.104
You know, like, look at this
animal that I'm working with.

00:23:46.684 --> 00:23:53.024
mastering when you know but I can't
imagine like wanting to have a stallion

00:23:53.034 --> 00:23:56.434
get aggressive unless it just looked cool

00:23:57.684 --> 00:23:58.074
Rupert Isaacson: to them.

00:23:59.004 --> 00:24:03.914
And I could see someone's ego who was
not uninformed doing that as an actor

00:24:03.914 --> 00:24:06.724
sitting on the horse not knowing what
he's dealing with or an actor with

00:24:06.724 --> 00:24:07.844
a lion not knowing what he's doing.

00:24:08.064 --> 00:24:12.274
It's just interesting to me that a
trainer professional would do that.

00:24:12.384 --> 00:24:14.624
And Go ahead.

00:24:14.634 --> 00:24:15.044
Maybe

00:24:15.344 --> 00:24:19.814
Terry Kuebler: even look, look how
dangerous my job, you know, to the

00:24:20.304 --> 00:24:25.054
film crew and stuff, look, you know,
this is a dangerous animal I'm working

00:24:25.054 --> 00:24:30.314
with and, and, you know, look at him
roar and, and, you know, this is a

00:24:30.484 --> 00:24:34.384
really dominant position that I'm in.

00:24:34.594 --> 00:24:36.394
So that's the only thing I think of.

00:24:36.394 --> 00:24:40.724
Rupert Isaacson: What, you know,
we would on a full disclosure, the

00:24:40.744 --> 00:24:46.044
listeners We Terry and I were together
recently on a, on a retreat in Italy.

00:24:46.164 --> 00:24:49.874
And Terry, there's two stories you
shared with me that I want to share

00:24:49.974 --> 00:24:51.114
with the listeners, if you would.

00:24:51.624 --> 00:24:55.524
One speaks to this
business of when the cats.

00:24:56.674 --> 00:24:58.934
intent turns.

00:25:00.144 --> 00:25:05.454
And the other is when there was a
second encounter with a lion that was

00:25:05.464 --> 00:25:08.294
perhaps even more let's say extreme.

00:25:08.944 --> 00:25:12.984
So the first one, you were
walking with a leopard, I believe.

00:25:13.554 --> 00:25:17.164
And you said that thing
about where you have to be.

00:25:17.564 --> 00:25:18.704
Fully fully tuned in.

00:25:19.254 --> 00:25:21.124
Can you tell us what
happened with that leopard?

00:25:21.674 --> 00:25:23.064
It has to do with your arm.

00:25:23.064 --> 00:25:32.424
Terry Kuebler: Oh Gosh Rupert,
you're making me tell all these

00:25:32.424 --> 00:25:36.584
stories Recipes about strawberry

00:25:37.564 --> 00:25:38.694
Rupert Isaacson: flan I suppose but yes

00:25:41.924 --> 00:25:48.389
Terry Kuebler: Diving boards that get you
to change something But yes, this was, it

00:25:48.389 --> 00:25:53.229
was, it was what you were talking about
is, what is the process of, of, you know,

00:25:53.229 --> 00:25:55.289
going in and taking a leopard for a walk?

00:25:56.069 --> 00:26:01.499
Well, leopards are known
for being amazingly fast.

00:26:01.649 --> 00:26:08.229
They can, they can bounce off a wall
and go over your head and in the process

00:26:08.229 --> 00:26:10.089
of going over, bite you five times.

00:26:10.579 --> 00:26:13.029
You know, I mean, they're,
they're amazingly fast.

00:26:13.079 --> 00:26:18.299
And this leopard, he, he was
Keisha was his name and I was

00:26:18.349 --> 00:26:22.849
hooking the chain around his neck
and to take him out for a walk.

00:26:24.219 --> 00:26:28.919
But I didn't have backup right there.

00:26:28.979 --> 00:26:31.479
They hadn't come in the cage with me.

00:26:32.119 --> 00:26:37.469
I didn't normally you would carry
like a bop or stick or something to

00:26:37.579 --> 00:26:42.089
Wrap them on the nose if they did bite
down on you because when they're when

00:26:42.089 --> 00:26:47.479
they're cubs and and you're training
them not to bite down too hard, you

00:26:47.509 --> 00:26:50.249
take your fingers and across their nose.

00:26:50.249 --> 00:26:51.699
Like, don't do that.

00:26:51.699 --> 00:26:52.919
Don't bite down on me.

00:26:53.589 --> 00:26:59.589
So, I had stuck that stick in my
mouth and was doing the chain up.

00:27:00.499 --> 00:27:04.639
And he caught, I contact me to
be like, you're defenseless.

00:27:06.589 --> 00:27:13.289
And just in that moment, he bit
down and he bit down seriously.

00:27:13.939 --> 00:27:17.079
And I was lucky enough to
have multiple layers on.

00:27:17.079 --> 00:27:21.789
I had you know, two jackets on and,
and a long sleeve shirt under that.

00:27:22.219 --> 00:27:25.884
So he, I have a scar from it.

00:27:25.924 --> 00:27:30.624
That's, that's, you know, that's,
it's not something that I'm proud of.

00:27:30.644 --> 00:27:32.304
It's not something that I show off.

00:27:32.304 --> 00:27:33.614
It's not a badge of honor.

00:27:33.624 --> 00:27:40.294
It's a badge of dishonor of I
was not present and aware enough.

00:27:40.654 --> 00:27:41.864
And he was.

00:27:42.634 --> 00:27:45.484
And in that moment, he
took full advantage of it.

00:27:46.624 --> 00:27:47.874
He's like, you screwed up.

00:27:50.294 --> 00:27:52.764
Rupert Isaacson: How did that
not end up with an escalation

00:27:53.094 --> 00:27:55.304
with you dead or severely mauled?

00:27:56.894 --> 00:28:03.894
Terry Kuebler: I think again, because of
the rapport, he wasn't, His, his intent

00:28:03.914 --> 00:28:09.404
was just in that moment of you screwed
up and, and now it's going to cost you.

00:28:09.674 --> 00:28:13.414
And then the backup came in, you know,
because there was another person there.

00:28:13.884 --> 00:28:14.764
They came in.

00:28:15.294 --> 00:28:17.954
He, he released my arm.

00:28:19.199 --> 00:28:22.609
So yeah, it could have, it
could have been much worse, but

00:28:22.609 --> 00:28:24.069
there was another person there.

00:28:24.509 --> 00:28:29.739
So it just, like I said,
it, it happens so fast.

00:28:29.969 --> 00:28:30.249
Yeah.

00:28:30.379 --> 00:28:32.149
It just an instant.

00:28:32.159 --> 00:28:37.299
But in, in that instant for me,
time stops, you know, it's like, Oh,

00:28:37.559 --> 00:28:41.919
and you see everything happening in
slow motion of, Oh, I screwed up.

00:28:42.489 --> 00:28:46.734
Rupert Isaacson: If you have a particular
rapport with leopards, or with lions,

00:28:46.764 --> 00:28:50.154
was there a particular animal that
you had a particular rapport with?

00:28:52.164 --> 00:28:56.824
Terry Kuebler: I, well, with that
one lion I did, but I love tigers.

00:28:57.654 --> 00:29:00.334
Tigers seemed the most social to me.

00:29:01.124 --> 00:29:05.974
Now I, I know in the wild, it's it,
they say that they are solitary.

00:29:06.274 --> 00:29:13.634
I don't believe it because they are
so even more social than lions are.

00:29:14.569 --> 00:29:19.829
As far as wanting to play, wanting
to bond, wanting to you know, be

00:29:19.829 --> 00:29:25.249
with someone, be in relationship
leopards are very, very solitary.

00:29:25.309 --> 00:29:27.359
They would prefer to be left alone.

00:29:27.659 --> 00:29:31.979
You know, they, they prefer a
solitary lifestyle, but then I guess

00:29:31.979 --> 00:29:33.929
that's kind of like house cats.

00:29:33.939 --> 00:29:35.489
Some of them are very social.

00:29:35.499 --> 00:29:42.004
Some of them are not, you know, but,
but the leopards tended to be solitary.

00:29:42.594 --> 00:29:45.504
The tigers were very,
very social, love to play.

00:29:46.864 --> 00:29:51.064
And, and the lions were social,
but lazier than a tiger.

00:29:51.354 --> 00:29:55.814
They, they love to just lay around
and, you know, sunbathe and hang

00:29:55.814 --> 00:29:58.444
out, especially a big male lion.

00:29:59.874 --> 00:30:02.464
Rupert Isaacson: Well, that brings me
to the other thing, the story that I,

00:30:02.524 --> 00:30:08.304
I wanted to get you to talk about which
is, so you're at this point of trust.

00:30:08.304 --> 00:30:09.264
You, you, you've got, you.

00:30:09.739 --> 00:30:13.449
started to establish much
more rapport with the animals.

00:30:13.999 --> 00:30:19.959
And there you are lying around,
indeed lying, actually lying around

00:30:20.669 --> 00:30:23.299
with a lion and something happens.

00:30:23.339 --> 00:30:27.219
And this story, when you told it
to me, made a big impression on me.

00:30:27.769 --> 00:30:30.869
Can you take us through that?

00:30:31.419 --> 00:30:32.669
What happened that day?

00:30:33.339 --> 00:30:36.699
And again, what did you learn from that?

00:30:37.089 --> 00:30:40.639
And, and, and the follow up process
of your colleagues, et cetera.

00:30:41.969 --> 00:30:48.129
Terry Kuebler: Yeah, well, that was,
that was a transitional point for me of

00:30:48.129 --> 00:30:50.349
it's time to get out of this business.

00:30:51.599 --> 00:31:00.554
Because, and I don't like to go down the
negative side of it because You know,

00:31:00.554 --> 00:31:02.154
the lessons in my life has progressed.

00:31:02.804 --> 00:31:03.634
as it should.

00:31:04.364 --> 00:31:11.064
But at that point, I was laying
out with the lion and I, I was,

00:31:11.294 --> 00:31:13.574
he was laying across my lap.

00:31:14.474 --> 00:31:17.864
Rupert Isaacson: Was this the
same lion that you talked about?

00:31:17.864 --> 00:31:18.934
Terry Kuebler: Yeah, the same lion.

00:31:19.584 --> 00:31:23.124
And, and he was socially grooming me.

00:31:23.284 --> 00:31:26.894
You know, I, how a dog sometimes
will groom you as if you have

00:31:26.894 --> 00:31:28.814
fleece, you know, with their teeth.

00:31:29.344 --> 00:31:31.484
This lion was doing that on my leg.

00:31:31.484 --> 00:31:33.254
He was socially grooming me.

00:31:34.704 --> 00:31:42.024
And the head trainer came from over
the top of me with, with the wood

00:31:42.034 --> 00:31:49.084
dowel and smacked that lion across
the nose for having his mouth on me.

00:31:50.374 --> 00:31:55.214
And so the lion thought that
I had done it because we were

00:31:55.214 --> 00:31:57.454
both kind of, you know, just.

00:31:57.979 --> 00:32:01.729
relaxed and, and, and
hanging out together.

00:32:02.449 --> 00:32:06.059
He jumped up and I'm still
laying in the prone position

00:32:06.069 --> 00:32:07.759
on the ground underneath him.

00:32:07.769 --> 00:32:16.029
He jumped up and was furious with me
for reprimanding him for being social.

00:32:17.279 --> 00:32:22.309
And and, and that was kind of the
tipping point for me of the lack

00:32:22.309 --> 00:32:27.789
of awareness in the humans around
me is going to get me killed.

00:32:28.954 --> 00:32:31.054
So it's time to move on.

00:32:32.954 --> 00:32:39.484
And that, it was, it was such a hard
choice in that you know, leaving, leaving

00:32:39.484 --> 00:32:45.034
the industry, leaving the animals that I
had relationships with, you know, it was

00:32:45.034 --> 00:32:49.004
like, well, who's, who's ever going to
have a rapport with these animals again?

00:32:49.004 --> 00:32:50.104
Who's going to work with them?

00:32:50.114 --> 00:32:52.254
Who's, so it was, it was hard to leave.

00:32:53.314 --> 00:32:56.874
I would, in the horse world, it
would be like leaving a stable.

00:32:57.399 --> 00:33:00.749
With horses that you worked with
and knew well because you didn't

00:33:00.749 --> 00:33:03.019
get along with management in

00:33:03.399 --> 00:33:09.149
Rupert Isaacson: so what did what did
what happened to persuade that line

00:33:09.149 --> 00:33:12.669
that as furious as he was, he just
got whacked across the nose with a

00:33:13.299 --> 00:33:18.189
wooden, heavy wooden thing when he
was just trying to show you love.

00:33:20.029 --> 00:33:21.259
Why did he not kill you?

00:33:21.609 --> 00:33:23.469
What happened to prevent
him from doing that?

00:33:24.519 --> 00:33:26.919
Terry Kuebler: Well, the, the,
the head trainer was there.

00:33:27.774 --> 00:33:34.234
To, to, you know, back him off he, but the
lion never, it destroyed our relationship.

00:33:34.454 --> 00:33:35.094
He never,

00:33:35.474 --> 00:33:37.894
Rupert Isaacson: what I was going to
say, the lion couldn't get over that.

00:33:37.914 --> 00:33:40.174
He couldn't say, okay, that wasn't you.

00:33:40.834 --> 00:33:42.504
Terry Kuebler: He never trusted me again.

00:33:42.534 --> 00:33:44.924
He never, and that broke my heart.

00:33:44.954 --> 00:33:48.704
It was part of the, it's time
to go, you know, because.

00:33:49.159 --> 00:33:52.249
Now, I don't have this
relationship anymore.

00:33:52.249 --> 00:34:00.159
It's just been destroyed and so it
goes back to being dangerous, right?

00:34:00.689 --> 00:34:07.189
For me, because I didn't have
the respect of the head trainers.

00:34:08.264 --> 00:34:13.384
because they didn't realize
the value of a relationship.

00:34:14.684 --> 00:34:17.254
You know, they were still in
the old mindset of training.

00:34:18.714 --> 00:34:20.004
And what year

00:34:20.004 --> 00:34:20.174
Rupert Isaacson: was

00:34:20.174 --> 00:34:20.524
Terry Kuebler: that?

00:34:21.074 --> 00:34:27.994
I would say it was probably
Early 2000s, like 2000.

00:34:27.994 --> 00:34:28.854
Rupert Isaacson: Relatively recently.

00:34:29.074 --> 00:34:31.504
Would you say that training
methods and approaches have

00:34:31.504 --> 00:34:33.454
changed radically since then?

00:34:33.654 --> 00:34:36.054
Would you say it's still more
or less as it was when you left?

00:34:37.434 --> 00:34:39.964
Terry Kuebler: I would venture
to say since I'm not involved

00:34:39.964 --> 00:34:42.674
in it, it's hard to tell.

00:34:43.074 --> 00:34:47.814
I would hope that there are
different levels of people

00:34:47.814 --> 00:34:49.664
just like in the horse world.

00:34:50.244 --> 00:34:53.204
I would I would say it's probably still

00:34:56.184 --> 00:34:58.684
a trainer mindset.

00:34:59.499 --> 00:35:04.599
Because, because the, the horse
world is just evolving the dog

00:35:04.599 --> 00:35:09.539
world, I would think is still pretty
much, you know, a trainer mindset.

00:35:10.039 --> 00:35:15.799
So I would assume that Hollywood was
also because it was so ego based.

00:35:15.799 --> 00:35:20.739
It was so, a director even want
to talk to a female trainer.

00:35:20.794 --> 00:35:22.614
They would

00:35:22.614 --> 00:35:23.524
Rupert Isaacson: ask

00:35:23.804 --> 00:35:25.714
Terry Kuebler: the actor
how to get the animal to do

00:35:25.714 --> 00:35:27.294
something rather than asking me,

00:35:27.804 --> 00:35:29.194
Rupert Isaacson: you know, it's
a really interesting point that

00:35:29.194 --> 00:35:32.904
because I, as you know, spent
some years working on movie sets.

00:35:32.924 --> 00:35:35.734
When I was in college, I was
mostly riding horses on them.

00:35:36.344 --> 00:35:40.454
And I remember being really.

00:35:42.669 --> 00:35:45.889
I don't know, shocked is not the word
because I was at a military school so

00:35:45.889 --> 00:35:52.959
I was used to military hierarchies,
but I found it curious, I think, that

00:35:53.399 --> 00:35:59.649
there was this desire for hierarchy
on movie sets that people seem to

00:35:59.719 --> 00:36:01.299
actively want to ape the military.

00:36:02.309 --> 00:36:09.029
While not being military, and I've worked
in other creative environments like in

00:36:09.029 --> 00:36:12.329
the theater and in the opera, actually,
that little bit as a boy, and although

00:36:12.329 --> 00:36:15.719
you do have to have a chain of command and
things have to happen, and sure, you've

00:36:15.719 --> 00:36:19.299
got a lot of teams need to be organized
and things must go right for the show.

00:36:19.489 --> 00:36:20.159
Yes, yes, yes.

00:36:20.819 --> 00:36:26.389
But there was much more of a sense of
team play, I felt, in theatre and opera.

00:36:27.019 --> 00:36:30.079
And when I got on movie sets, it was
like, everyone was just an arsehole.

00:36:30.779 --> 00:36:35.809
And, but like, but like, really
kind of enthusiastically putting

00:36:35.869 --> 00:36:37.539
effort into this arseholdom.

00:36:37.769 --> 00:36:40.799
So that, you know, the, the, the,
and everyone was sort of busy.

00:36:41.234 --> 00:36:42.674
Dissing everybody else.

00:36:42.784 --> 00:36:46.264
So, you know, we were effectively
extras, even though we were special

00:36:46.284 --> 00:36:50.704
action extras, because we were riding
the horses in complex situations.

00:36:50.704 --> 00:36:52.244
And so we fell into this.

00:36:52.929 --> 00:36:56.039
bit where they didn't have to pay us as
much as they'd have to pay a stuntman,

00:36:56.419 --> 00:36:59.549
but they'd have to pay us more than,
you know, so special skills, right?

00:37:00.319 --> 00:37:00.409
You were

00:37:00.969 --> 00:37:05.999
Terry Kuebler: classified as a stuntman,
which had, you know, some, some people

00:37:05.999 --> 00:37:06.039
Rupert Isaacson: to it.

00:37:06.039 --> 00:37:06.559
They called us.

00:37:06.559 --> 00:37:06.789
Yeah.

00:37:06.989 --> 00:37:09.869
And, and so, you know,
if you, if you see okay.

00:37:10.049 --> 00:37:13.559
For the, for the people listening, who
wants to know about film scenes, okay.

00:37:13.559 --> 00:37:17.049
If you've ever seen the film, Willow
this is actually, typifies this mindset

00:37:17.159 --> 00:37:20.599
that there's a fantasy film called Willow
from the 80s, which a lot of people

00:37:20.979 --> 00:37:22.369
still follow in a bit of a cult way.

00:37:22.789 --> 00:37:26.269
When that film opens, there's a
princess being chased through the

00:37:26.269 --> 00:37:29.499
woods and she's being chased through
the woods by two baddies in armor

00:37:29.879 --> 00:37:34.019
with these two death dogs, which are
actually Rottweilers with latex suits

00:37:34.019 --> 00:37:37.189
on them, pursuing her through Epping
Forest, which is just outside Lampin.

00:37:37.689 --> 00:37:39.329
And one of those baddies was me.

00:37:40.284 --> 00:37:43.044
I'm in every riding scene in that movie.

00:37:43.094 --> 00:37:44.754
I was aged about 20.

00:37:45.854 --> 00:37:53.194
And exactly as you say, the dogs
had to be called by a trainer to run

00:37:53.194 --> 00:37:55.564
across this section of forest with us.

00:37:56.094 --> 00:37:58.844
cantering behind them
as if we were hunting.

00:37:59.664 --> 00:38:04.234
But of course, because of the latex suits
that the dogs were wearing they got a bit

00:38:04.234 --> 00:38:07.504
confused and we had to retake and retake.

00:38:07.884 --> 00:38:12.634
And then eventually, for some strange
reason, one of the dogs turned and went

00:38:12.634 --> 00:38:19.729
the wrong way and ran under the horse's
hooves of my co guy, my co baddie.

00:38:20.209 --> 00:38:23.459
And the dog wasn't actually hurt,
not because he's also wearing

00:38:23.459 --> 00:38:26.969
a big piece of latex, but, you
know, it wasn't a good thing.

00:38:27.019 --> 00:38:32.009
And then immediately, You had the
dog handler who was like this big,

00:38:32.129 --> 00:38:37.979
shaven headed, tattooed sort of
London, way on tall like that, yeah.

00:38:38.059 --> 00:38:39.019
Very aggressive.

00:38:39.149 --> 00:38:40.269
I've rottweilers, yeah.

00:38:40.559 --> 00:38:44.289
And the horse master, who was
this same equivalent Greg Pauk.

00:38:44.749 --> 00:38:45.489
Huge dude.

00:38:45.909 --> 00:38:50.419
Kept coming out of a sort of, you know,
somewhat criminally associated families,

00:38:50.439 --> 00:38:54.169
a lot of them do lot, you know, all that
money, lots of flash, lots of power.

00:38:54.219 --> 00:38:59.649
And they kind of went at it in front of
us violently while we're just sitting

00:38:59.649 --> 00:39:02.659
on our horses waiting for, and the
directors, cause they love this stuff.

00:39:02.689 --> 00:39:08.179
And then the, the, you know, director
to the first assistant director to the

00:39:08.179 --> 00:39:11.839
second assistant, they wouldn't talk
to each other and they'd be so yeah.

00:39:11.999 --> 00:39:14.109
And there was sort of who
you could sit next to if you

00:39:14.109 --> 00:39:15.329
couldn't sit next to when you.

00:39:15.749 --> 00:39:18.989
And you had to like demonstrate respect
and you had to kiss ass and it was

00:39:18.989 --> 00:39:20.039
really, really interesting to me.

00:39:20.439 --> 00:39:20.559
There

00:39:20.559 --> 00:39:23.239
Terry Kuebler: was a hierarchy
of who you could talk to, right?

00:39:23.249 --> 00:39:25.029
Who you could kiss.

00:39:25.029 --> 00:39:29.219
You had to do it in a hierarchy.

00:39:29.819 --> 00:39:31.759
Rupert Isaacson: Yes, it's like, oh,
I'm not allowed to kiss your ass.

00:39:31.759 --> 00:39:33.519
Because you're actually too
high for my lips, right?

00:39:33.519 --> 00:39:33.819
Got it.

00:39:33.869 --> 00:39:34.049
Yeah,

00:39:34.589 --> 00:39:36.269
Terry Kuebler: you're not
supposed to even talk to me.

00:39:36.299 --> 00:39:37.179
But yes, you're God.

00:39:37.219 --> 00:39:38.239
Rupert Isaacson: Yeah, it's bizarre.

00:39:38.259 --> 00:39:40.889
So, so I could see how
that would filter down.

00:39:40.984 --> 00:39:44.274
I didn't work around exotics.

00:39:44.324 --> 00:39:47.014
So all my things were just
basically based around horses.

00:39:47.014 --> 00:39:50.534
You might occasionally see someone
over there with an elephant or

00:39:50.534 --> 00:39:53.244
something, but generally there
wouldn't be much, you know how it is.

00:39:53.264 --> 00:39:56.024
There wouldn't be much
communication on a movie set.

00:39:56.024 --> 00:39:57.664
You go, you do your job and you leave.

00:39:58.124 --> 00:40:01.904
So, but what's interesting to me is that

00:40:04.844 --> 00:40:12.054
this world that we're trying to
create art and wonder, right?

00:40:12.214 --> 00:40:13.474
That's the, that's what a movie is.

00:40:13.484 --> 00:40:14.404
We're trying to create.

00:40:15.159 --> 00:40:17.739
a journey into the imagination
and often a journey through the

00:40:17.739 --> 00:40:19.839
heart and something inspirational.

00:40:20.559 --> 00:40:22.209
But in fact, they're often being produced.

00:40:24.154 --> 00:40:28.374
by people who are being so
actively unpleasant to each other.

00:40:30.464 --> 00:40:32.694
So enthusiastically
unpleasant to each other.

00:40:33.934 --> 00:40:36.134
That it's interesting that
that doesn't come across more,

00:40:36.164 --> 00:40:38.014
you know, in the, in things.

00:40:38.014 --> 00:40:38.364
So

00:40:40.504 --> 00:40:46.454
Terry Kuebler: what I found really
interesting was that it, it did come

00:40:46.494 --> 00:40:54.329
through, like if working a dog, for
instance, If the dog did not like the

00:40:54.329 --> 00:40:59.809
actor because they were an asshole
That does come through on camera.

00:41:00.169 --> 00:41:05.119
Okay, you know makes our job much harder
in that We were supposed to make it

00:41:05.129 --> 00:41:11.194
look like these were best friends And
it was Extremely obvious, you know,

00:41:11.194 --> 00:41:13.234
from the body language of the dog.

00:41:17.154 --> 00:41:20.044
I don't want to be anywhere
near this person because they're

00:41:20.054 --> 00:41:22.664
radiating, you know, ego.

00:41:23.484 --> 00:41:27.874
And that, that made it
difficult to work animals with.

00:41:28.414 --> 00:41:34.224
Because it did come across through the
camera, I think, as far as the dog's

00:41:35.064 --> 00:41:38.274
feelings towards the person or whatever.

00:41:39.314 --> 00:41:39.964
Rupert Isaacson: That's funny.

00:41:40.454 --> 00:41:41.944
Terry Kuebler: That made
the job a lot harder.

00:41:42.394 --> 00:41:44.244
Rupert Isaacson: So they just have
to keep retaking until they got the

00:41:44.254 --> 00:41:46.404
things that looked somewhat usable.

00:41:46.839 --> 00:41:47.839
Terry Kuebler: Somewhat usable.

00:41:47.839 --> 00:41:48.189
Yes.

00:41:48.239 --> 00:41:48.649
Yes.

00:41:48.779 --> 00:41:49.839
And it did.

00:41:49.839 --> 00:41:51.239
It made it much tougher.

00:41:52.429 --> 00:41:54.199
Rupert Isaacson: So, so, okay.

00:41:55.279 --> 00:41:57.549
Right at the beginning of
this conversation you talked

00:41:57.559 --> 00:41:58.759
about near death experience.

00:41:58.769 --> 00:42:03.499
So it, it sounds like you were sort of
trucking along in the normal trainer

00:42:03.499 --> 00:42:07.099
mindset because after all, that's
the, you know, the, the culture you,

00:42:07.429 --> 00:42:08.899
we all, we all start from somewhere.

00:42:09.409 --> 00:42:12.379
And then what really changed
for you before these incidents

00:42:12.389 --> 00:42:15.534
with two incidents with the lion
and The leopard and so forth.

00:42:16.044 --> 00:42:19.454
Was these near death experiences tied
up around aneurysms and your daughter.

00:42:19.714 --> 00:42:21.464
Can you please talk a
little bit more about that?

00:42:21.514 --> 00:42:25.484
Because again, a lot of listeners I
think will have had similar experiences.

00:42:25.574 --> 00:42:26.574
What happened to you?

00:42:26.654 --> 00:42:29.754
And what did you experience during that?

00:42:30.564 --> 00:42:31.724
During that?

00:42:32.584 --> 00:42:35.064
Perhaps more than one near death
experience that seems to have

00:42:35.404 --> 00:42:36.684
kicked you into another sphere?

00:42:38.564 --> 00:42:44.354
Terry Kuebler: Yeah, I My daughter
was born in 87, and so, I, I

00:42:44.354 --> 00:42:48.054
started to have difficulty.

00:42:48.054 --> 00:42:52.404
I started going through strokes,
aneurysms prior to, and so there

00:42:52.404 --> 00:42:58.804
were, there never really was a A point
where you know, I was in the hospital

00:42:58.804 --> 00:43:02.184
and the doctor said, Oh, you know,
you flatlined or anything like that.

00:43:02.194 --> 00:43:09.414
But, but I had the experience
of leaving this planet going

00:43:09.454 --> 00:43:12.524
to a very, very bright portal.

00:43:13.474 --> 00:43:18.014
And standing and almost looking
through this portal, and

00:43:18.374 --> 00:43:20.924
there were beings behind me.

00:43:21.184 --> 00:43:26.844
So, so my guides and all I remember
hearing was, do you feel complete?

00:43:28.844 --> 00:43:35.234
And, and I, I said, no, you
know, I just had a daughter.

00:43:35.584 --> 00:43:38.764
I, I've got to go back and,
and be her mom and everything.

00:43:38.774 --> 00:43:43.054
And, and it was pretty
much that brief of boom.

00:43:43.054 --> 00:43:44.504
I was back in my body.

00:43:46.139 --> 00:43:55.119
But the realization of how much choice we
have in our lives of, of directing our own

00:43:55.119 --> 00:44:01.789
experience, because that question being
posed of, it's up to you of whether you

00:44:01.789 --> 00:44:08.609
want to cross over or go back and it was
like, oh, no, I'm not, I'm not done yet.

00:44:08.609 --> 00:44:09.919
I'm not ready to.

00:44:09.969 --> 00:44:11.109
And so it was okay.

00:44:11.969 --> 00:44:16.549
And, and that was huge to
me of understanding that

00:44:16.549 --> 00:44:17.949
we have a lot of choice.

00:44:19.119 --> 00:44:25.939
In designing our own life and in you
know, picking the path that we take.

00:44:26.369 --> 00:44:34.319
So when I came back, it almost felt
as if I had a foot in both planes.

00:44:35.429 --> 00:44:43.639
For quite a while, and for the seeking
part of, of, okay, who, who's going to

00:44:43.639 --> 00:44:49.009
teach me how to navigate this and how
to make the right choices and, and, you

00:44:49.009 --> 00:44:51.519
know, how to live the rest of my life.

00:44:53.114 --> 00:44:59.484
Now, knowing that there is an
afterlife and that we are here

00:44:59.484 --> 00:45:01.084
to to accomplish something.

00:45:01.314 --> 00:45:03.614
What am I here to accomplish?

00:45:04.584 --> 00:45:08.614
Other than the simple answer was you said
you wanted to be your mother's daughter.

00:45:09.014 --> 00:45:10.714
I mean, your, your daughter's mother.

00:45:14.214 --> 00:45:19.354
So, you know, would it be okay if that was
it, if that was, you know, but learning

00:45:19.364 --> 00:45:29.004
how to be a mentor and, and if we go
back to the, the conversation of, of

00:45:29.064 --> 00:45:35.749
learning from the lion about intention
and how to feel that, it's, it's, it's

00:45:37.799 --> 00:45:45.159
The journey really takes me if, if
you want to go now to the future,

00:45:45.429 --> 00:45:51.839
I mean, me now, my quest now in
life, my, my driving force is

00:45:52.439 --> 00:46:02.649
a lot of our beliefs are what have shut us
down as far as our spiritual connections.

00:46:03.719 --> 00:46:06.629
I think intuition and.

00:46:07.159 --> 00:46:11.939
Being connected to different levels
of consciousness is hardwired into us

00:46:13.329 --> 00:46:22.949
and if you take the belief that the
scientific premise of our electrons

00:46:22.979 --> 00:46:27.169
can operate either as, as waves or as

00:46:27.179 --> 00:46:27.909
Rupert Isaacson: particles.

00:46:28.049 --> 00:46:28.369
Yeah.

00:46:29.199 --> 00:46:34.029
Terry Kuebler: I believe humans senses
operate in the same way where if you

00:46:34.029 --> 00:46:40.719
believe that you're separate and, and
when everything changed to separate

00:46:41.159 --> 00:46:45.899
state and church and to separate,
we are not part of nature and we're,

00:46:45.909 --> 00:46:51.509
we're separate, we're separate, we're
separate that belief system shut down.

00:46:53.199 --> 00:47:00.139
Every part of our senses that operates
on the wave length, and I, that's, that's

00:47:00.179 --> 00:47:07.379
intuition, that's spirituality, that's,
you know, so if you're operating just on

00:47:07.389 --> 00:47:17.199
a physical realm of getting information
from just what is physically measurable,

00:47:19.689 --> 00:47:25.869
we've shut down two thirds of our
ability to receive information.

00:47:26.304 --> 00:47:27.044
Information.

00:47:28.874 --> 00:47:36.254
And when you start going down this rabbit
hole of, of connecting with animals,

00:47:36.684 --> 00:47:42.924
it took me to connecting to myself, you
know, being present, being aware of my

00:47:42.924 --> 00:47:50.934
internal world, and how my mind affected
my body language, my energy fields.

00:47:51.629 --> 00:47:57.089
So, then the fascination with biofields
and communicating with animals, non

00:47:57.339 --> 00:48:04.219
verbally, non physically and then that
will take you to the connection of

00:48:04.239 --> 00:48:10.069
once you start feeling that connection
with with animals and biofields.

00:48:10.674 --> 00:48:16.234
Their awareness of you being
connected is right there.

00:48:17.514 --> 00:48:22.534
So it's like, oh, wow, you know, not
only do we have the capacity to be aware

00:48:22.534 --> 00:48:24.424
of this, but animals are already there.

00:48:25.504 --> 00:48:29.614
When you get there, it's kind of like
the, oh, hello, here you are, finally.

00:48:30.304 --> 00:48:36.584
Now you're part of this
environmental sphere of awareness.

00:48:37.854 --> 00:48:43.174
And that's a completely different level
of consciousness that we have access

00:48:43.174 --> 00:48:45.084
to that kind of information then.

00:48:46.094 --> 00:48:52.384
And from there, it goes to
planetary consciousness from

00:48:52.384 --> 00:48:53.774
planetary consciousness.

00:48:53.774 --> 00:48:58.414
It goes to a universal and cosmos.

00:48:58.414 --> 00:49:02.094
And then the, and then the
super, you know, the, the

00:49:02.094 --> 00:49:03.804
field, the zero point field.

00:49:04.384 --> 00:49:09.589
So there are layers of awareness
and consciousness layers.

00:49:11.009 --> 00:49:13.479
that we've just shut down
through our belief system.

00:49:15.139 --> 00:49:16.459
Now, that was a huge rant.

00:49:17.269 --> 00:49:22.469
I'm sorry, but that's where
this journey has taken me and

00:49:22.469 --> 00:49:24.159
it's all because of the animals.

00:49:24.719 --> 00:49:25.149
Now,

00:49:25.189 --> 00:49:28.769
Rupert Isaacson: okay, I want,
I want to go to where you went

00:49:28.779 --> 00:49:31.969
to after leaving Hollywood.

00:49:32.519 --> 00:49:36.769
And how that's brought you
to that conscious universe.

00:49:39.389 --> 00:49:40.224
I wouldn't say I Idea.

00:49:40.379 --> 00:49:40.949
Idea.

00:49:40.979 --> 00:49:41.999
'cause I don't think it's an idea.

00:49:41.999 --> 00:49:42.929
I think it's a reality.

00:49:42.929 --> 00:49:45.839
And I'll go into that a little
bit, but say realization.

00:49:46.719 --> 00:49:49.419
But let, I just want to go back
to when you had the aneurysm.

00:49:50.899 --> 00:49:52.849
Did you know you were having an aneurysm?

00:49:53.029 --> 00:49:55.189
Like when it happened to you,
like, oh my gosh, this is an

00:49:55.189 --> 00:49:57.789
aneurysm, and what did it feel like?

00:49:59.039 --> 00:50:02.159
Terry Kuebler: Yeah, I, I wouldn't
say at that point I knew it was.

00:50:02.944 --> 00:50:06.724
an aneurysm, I knew that it
was a stroke of some kind.

00:50:06.724 --> 00:50:09.594
I I actually, and this is what happened.

00:50:09.884 --> 00:50:10.634
Rupert Isaacson: What were you doing?

00:50:10.634 --> 00:50:11.794
And what did it physically?

00:50:12.094 --> 00:50:12.854
Actually, it

00:50:12.854 --> 00:50:15.694
Terry Kuebler: happened when I
was 18 years old, it happened.

00:50:16.044 --> 00:50:20.284
I was at college one day,
and I lost half of my vision.

00:50:20.799 --> 00:50:24.689
And, and my ability to speak and
everything, and I thought, whoa, what,

00:50:24.699 --> 00:50:29.589
what is, what, somebody put something in
my coffee or something, what is going on?

00:50:30.299 --> 00:50:35.969
And and then it cleared up, and being
18, it was like, whoa, that was weird,

00:50:36.719 --> 00:50:38.899
but the intuition Cleared up within

00:50:38.899 --> 00:50:40.669
Rupert Isaacson: hours,
cleared up within days.

00:50:41.544 --> 00:50:45.454
Terry Kuebler: Within, within hours,
it cleared up and then later that

00:50:45.454 --> 00:50:47.574
night, I had a horrific headache.

00:50:47.874 --> 00:50:50.234
But then by the next
day, everything was gone.

00:50:50.234 --> 00:50:55.534
So nothing ever happened of that
other than a few years later, I

00:50:55.534 --> 00:50:59.454
was reading a book and it happened
to be a Sydney Sheldon book.

00:50:59.854 --> 00:51:05.164
And it talked about a girl
having an aneurysm in the story.

00:51:05.194 --> 00:51:09.034
And I went, wow, that's
what happened to me.

00:51:09.649 --> 00:51:15.119
This sounds really familiar and then
in the story, she had difficulty during

00:51:15.119 --> 00:51:21.409
childbirth and, and had another aneurysm
because of the hormones and stuff and

00:51:21.409 --> 00:51:25.109
I went, wow, I better investigate this.

00:51:25.269 --> 00:51:28.489
I may have difficulty during childbirth.

00:51:29.609 --> 00:51:31.949
So I started investigating.

00:51:32.409 --> 00:51:36.409
hormonal differences and imbalances
and aneurysms and things like that.

00:51:36.449 --> 00:51:41.979
And I went in, when I got pregnant,
I went in arguing with my doctors,

00:51:42.019 --> 00:51:43.689
I'm going to have some problems.

00:51:44.334 --> 00:51:46.064
because I've had this history.

00:51:47.154 --> 00:51:49.424
And it was a fight.

00:51:49.564 --> 00:51:51.604
They were like, no, no, you're fine.

00:51:51.604 --> 00:51:52.674
You're just scared.

00:51:52.674 --> 00:51:55.744
You know, you're just,
you're just being silly.

00:51:56.324 --> 00:52:01.224
And I fought and I fought because my
intuition was like, no, this is real.

00:52:01.844 --> 00:52:06.824
I'm going to have problems and
I need to have a C section.

00:52:08.254 --> 00:52:10.654
So I fought for that.

00:52:11.374 --> 00:52:16.044
And finally, the doctors went in and did
CAT scans and stuff and they said, by

00:52:16.084 --> 00:52:18.174
golly, you do have some scar tissue there.

00:52:18.194 --> 00:52:23.144
You did have some kind of
episode, but you'll be fine.

00:52:23.154 --> 00:52:24.344
We're not worried about it.

00:52:24.404 --> 00:52:26.004
I said, I'm worried.

00:52:27.804 --> 00:52:32.564
So I fought again and I ended up,
I did have a scheduled C section,

00:52:32.934 --> 00:52:35.104
but I started having aneurysms.

00:52:36.409 --> 00:52:37.179
prior to that.

00:52:37.179 --> 00:52:38.209
So I had to go in.

00:52:38.479 --> 00:52:42.559
My daughter was taken a
month early, but these

00:52:43.749 --> 00:52:45.589
Rupert Isaacson:
aneurysms cause blackouts.

00:52:45.589 --> 00:52:47.319
They cause you fainted and fell over.

00:52:47.319 --> 00:52:48.689
What

00:52:48.689 --> 00:52:50.059
Terry Kuebler: happened?

00:52:50.059 --> 00:52:52.999
Because of the location was
in the left side of my brain.

00:52:52.999 --> 00:52:55.689
So the right side of
my body would go numb.

00:52:56.469 --> 00:52:59.709
I would lose feeling in
the right side of my body.

00:52:59.759 --> 00:53:01.549
I would lose the ability to speak.

00:53:01.999 --> 00:53:06.879
I would lose You know, cognitive
abilities, but mostly speech and the

00:53:06.879 --> 00:53:09.669
right side of my body, which I'm and then

00:53:10.259 --> 00:53:12.889
Rupert Isaacson: each time it
cleared up sort of within hours.

00:53:12.919 --> 00:53:15.219
So did they take gradually
longer and longer to clear up?

00:53:15.929 --> 00:53:20.319
Terry Kuebler: Well, at at 1 point,
and this was when I was, eight

00:53:20.319 --> 00:53:22.099
months pregnant at one point.

00:53:22.199 --> 00:53:26.249
I started having these symptoms
and I'm trying to communicate

00:53:26.259 --> 00:53:29.759
to my husband I'm in distress.

00:53:29.809 --> 00:53:38.139
I'm having some problems and so he
called the doctors that Obviously I had

00:53:38.139 --> 00:53:43.079
been arguing with and and had gotten on
board as far as i'm going to have some

00:53:43.089 --> 00:53:48.019
problems And they they said get her in
here right now get her into the hospital.

00:53:48.489 --> 00:53:51.404
We we've got to You
Take the baby right now.

00:53:51.404 --> 00:53:53.594
She's, she's having a stroke.

00:53:54.824 --> 00:54:02.434
The fact now that it is that there was no,
they, they say I should have paralysis.

00:54:02.434 --> 00:54:06.084
I should have, I should have
had long term effects from this.

00:54:07.324 --> 00:54:08.884
But why do you

00:54:08.914 --> 00:54:09.714
Rupert Isaacson: think you didn't

00:54:11.054 --> 00:54:13.254
Terry Kuebler: my near
death experience my choice?

00:54:13.624 --> 00:54:19.314
Rupert Isaacson: Okay, and have you
had an aneurysm since so interesting

00:54:20.224 --> 00:54:24.374
Terry Kuebler: and I but I haven't
had I Decided one child was all I was

00:54:26.214 --> 00:54:29.494
Rupert Isaacson: Right, what
are the hormonal imbalances

00:54:29.494 --> 00:54:30.944
that bring on the aneurysms?

00:54:30.964 --> 00:54:35.239
I didn't I didn't know that there
was a connection between hormones?

00:54:35.239 --> 00:54:35.909
Yeah, it

00:54:35.909 --> 00:54:40.659
Terry Kuebler: was in back then in,
in whatever that was that the 80s or

00:54:40.659 --> 00:54:46.299
whatever, when they would put someone
on, on the pill or on estrogen patches,

00:54:46.419 --> 00:54:49.079
they were so they were one size fits all.

00:54:50.039 --> 00:54:58.739
And it was, it was way too strong for
me and, and caused hormonal imbalances.

00:54:59.029 --> 00:55:02.339
Rupert Isaacson: So estrogen,
too much estrogen can lead to

00:55:03.789 --> 00:55:03.969
Terry Kuebler: Valuerisms?

00:55:04.669 --> 00:55:05.149
Yes.

00:55:06.269 --> 00:55:07.179
Rupert Isaacson: I did not know that.

00:55:07.969 --> 00:55:11.729
Terry Kuebler: See, and, and, and
maybe doctors would not agree.

00:55:11.779 --> 00:55:17.109
It was amazing to me how much I
had to argue on my own behalf.

00:55:17.789 --> 00:55:22.339
And then after I went through it all,
the nurse in the elevator says, I'm so

00:55:22.339 --> 00:55:28.579
glad that you stuck to your guns, because
my job is to take care of the infants

00:55:28.609 --> 00:55:30.314
when the mother dies on the floor.

00:55:30.504 --> 00:55:30.954
table.

00:55:31.804 --> 00:55:32.914
And I went, what?

00:55:34.474 --> 00:55:37.134
I said, do you mean this happens often?

00:55:37.394 --> 00:55:38.784
She goes, you have no idea.

00:55:39.494 --> 00:55:44.024
And I said, then why did,
did I have to fight so hard?

00:55:44.364 --> 00:55:51.014
And she said, well, it's still a
male dominated field and we don't

00:55:51.024 --> 00:55:52.624
know anything about hormones.

00:55:54.744 --> 00:55:56.944
Rupert Isaacson: Do you think there's
lots of women out there who've suffered

00:55:56.944 --> 00:55:58.964
aneurysms because of going on the pill?

00:56:00.524 --> 00:56:01.154
Terry Kuebler: Yes, I do.

00:56:02.284 --> 00:56:03.274
I think it's a big thing.

00:56:03.984 --> 00:56:04.474
Rupert Isaacson: Wow.

00:56:07.264 --> 00:56:07.734
Wow.

00:56:08.164 --> 00:56:08.514
Okay.

00:56:08.544 --> 00:56:08.784
Yeah.

00:56:08.784 --> 00:56:10.464
I had no idea.

00:56:10.464 --> 00:56:13.344
I knew about other risks, you
know, cancer risks and so on.

00:56:14.174 --> 00:56:17.894
You know, it's so interesting that
something which was in some ways a

00:56:17.894 --> 00:56:21.654
great tool for feminism, because it
also was, it did, it did liberate.

00:56:23.104 --> 00:56:26.974
Couple of generations of women to go out
into the workplace and get out from under

00:56:29.054 --> 00:56:33.334
at least accidental child, you
know Pregnancies and so on.

00:56:33.404 --> 00:56:39.254
So it was of course hailed as a liberating
force the bill But I did not and then

00:56:39.254 --> 00:56:44.144
of course now we subsequently realized
that there were risks of cancer and so

00:56:44.144 --> 00:56:47.984
forth But I didn't realize that there was
a similar risk with is it is it is it?

00:56:49.304 --> 00:56:49.754
Is the

00:56:52.214 --> 00:57:00.044
overproduction of estrogen linked with
weakening of general vein or blood

00:57:00.044 --> 00:57:02.754
vessel walls, or only in the brain?

00:57:04.064 --> 00:57:08.584
Terry Kuebler: I don't know if,
you know, the question is, is, Was

00:57:08.584 --> 00:57:15.164
there a weakness there to start
with that the hormonal fluctuations

00:57:15.584 --> 00:57:17.764
you know, caused an imbalance?

00:57:17.784 --> 00:57:22.474
Because I, I struggled, you know,
in puberty, I struggled through

00:57:22.964 --> 00:57:28.064
massive cramps and I, so I was
hormonally out of whack anyway.

00:57:28.444 --> 00:57:33.574
So was, was the, was there
weakness there to start with?

00:57:33.574 --> 00:57:33.859
That's it.

00:57:33.989 --> 00:57:37.269
Was I just hormonally imbalanced?

00:57:37.269 --> 00:57:43.239
It would be, it would be interesting to
know, you know, what were my readings?

00:57:43.239 --> 00:57:46.049
What were my levels back as a teenager?

00:57:46.249 --> 00:57:47.469
You know, what are they now?

00:57:49.679 --> 00:57:57.119
But the fact that a lot of women going
through childbirth, they with the,

00:57:57.439 --> 00:58:02.639
the spikes in estrogen, because when I
started having the seizures or whatever

00:58:02.639 --> 00:58:08.299
was because at the end of pregnancy,
your, your, your hormones spike,

00:58:09.359 --> 00:58:14.799
you know, so, so, so consequently,
I was like, wow, I'm going to have

00:58:14.799 --> 00:58:16.119
difficulty going through menopause.

00:58:20.234 --> 00:58:22.944
So, so I went on bioidentical hormones.

00:58:24.594 --> 00:58:25.234
Rupert Isaacson: Okay.

00:58:25.794 --> 00:58:27.724
And but that is not created.

00:58:27.724 --> 00:58:28.384
I have my

00:58:28.414 --> 00:58:32.414
Terry Kuebler: own intuition saying I
need to keep myself at a certain level.

00:58:32.934 --> 00:58:33.294
Okay.

00:58:33.304 --> 00:58:40.424
Because I obviously have issues,
you know, vein weaknesses or

00:58:40.424 --> 00:58:43.314
whatever to large hormonal spikes.

00:58:43.784 --> 00:58:45.934
Rupert Isaacson: And what's really
interesting, I didn't realize

00:58:45.974 --> 00:58:48.899
that there is a vein weakness.

00:58:49.099 --> 00:58:52.299
Hormonal spike connection
and like, what is that?

00:58:52.329 --> 00:58:57.559
Is that causing just, I'm,
I'm, I'm, I'm wondering a lot.

00:58:57.609 --> 00:59:01.459
Is it causing weaknesses in the
stem cells that then becomes the

00:59:01.469 --> 00:59:04.529
cells that of the blood vessel wall.

00:59:05.199 --> 00:59:09.469
So they arrive weakened because
of some hormonal imbalances.

00:59:09.509 --> 00:59:10.109
Is it that?

00:59:10.209 --> 00:59:13.329
So I'm going to go off and
do some research because.

00:59:13.849 --> 00:59:14.149
Terry Kuebler: Yeah.

00:59:14.509 --> 00:59:20.559
Well, what was interesting is after
the whole childbirth, I had a, a, a.

00:59:21.129 --> 00:59:26.409
Neurosurgeon come came in and and and I
just had my daughter and, you know, my

00:59:26.409 --> 00:59:27.619
near death experience and everything.

00:59:27.629 --> 00:59:32.659
And he came in and he says,
you have a tumor in your brain.

00:59:32.659 --> 00:59:35.359
We're going to we have you
scheduled for surgery for tomorrow.

00:59:35.999 --> 00:59:38.769
And I went, no, no, it's not a tumor

00:59:40.979 --> 00:59:42.039
because I knew.

00:59:42.389 --> 00:59:45.089
I mean, I, I had already
been fighting for this.

00:59:45.089 --> 00:59:48.869
I'm gonna have, you know, and
that I had this earlier episode

00:59:49.379 --> 00:59:56.219
and, and he was so furious with
me for refusing to do the surgery.

00:59:58.409 --> 01:00:00.749
You know, he was just beside himself.

01:00:00.749 --> 01:00:02.219
Like, you can't say no.

01:00:02.219 --> 01:00:07.769
It's like, oh yes, I can , I'm walking
out of this hospital because I know

01:00:08.069 --> 01:00:12.599
that if you go in for surgery, I'm
not walking out of this hospital.

01:00:13.534 --> 01:00:15.094
And he said, yeah, well, it's very likely.

01:00:15.094 --> 01:00:16.644
You probably won't be able to talk.

01:00:16.644 --> 01:00:20.034
You probably won't have use of
your right side, but that's okay.

01:00:20.244 --> 01:00:21.294
We'll save your life.

01:00:21.294 --> 01:00:23.274
And I said, no, no, you're not.

01:00:24.034 --> 01:00:24.914
I'm going home.

01:00:26.094 --> 01:00:33.694
So, and, and then later the neurologist
said, I could lose my job for telling

01:00:33.694 --> 01:00:35.654
you that you're, you're right.

01:00:36.409 --> 01:00:40.609
You have the ability to wait
and watch this and monitor it.

01:00:40.619 --> 01:00:43.939
If it goes down, it was blood leakage.

01:00:44.189 --> 01:00:46.149
If it gets larger, it's a tumor.

01:00:46.509 --> 01:00:47.969
So we can wait and see.

01:00:49.149 --> 01:00:52.429
And, and it ended up, you
know, dissipating, so.

01:00:53.889 --> 01:00:55.089
Rupert Isaacson: Why
would he lose his job?

01:00:55.089 --> 01:00:58.629
So my intuition is Or giving you a
life saving professional opinion?

01:01:00.409 --> 01:01:03.909
Terry Kuebler: Because he, because of
that hierarchy, he Again, it comes down

01:01:04.069 --> 01:01:04.909
Rupert Isaacson: to
hierarchies, doesn't it?

01:01:04.919 --> 01:01:05.219
Yeah,

01:01:05.279 --> 01:01:08.409
Terry Kuebler: but the surgeon
was above him, and they are not

01:01:08.429 --> 01:01:12.999
allowed to to have any other opinion
than the hierarchy's opinion.

01:01:14.109 --> 01:01:16.789
Rupert Isaacson: So interesting, you
know, that the hierarchy's on the movie

01:01:16.789 --> 01:01:18.289
sets, the hierarchy's in the hospitals.

01:01:19.419 --> 01:01:19.699
Yeah.

01:01:19.829 --> 01:01:23.169
Terry Kuebler: And Rupert, we can't,
you can't release this podcast

01:01:23.169 --> 01:01:23.969
because we're going to get burned.

01:01:25.409 --> 01:01:26.659
Rupert Isaacson: Well,
we're not naming names.

01:01:26.659 --> 01:01:33.049
We're just recounting, you
know, vague anecdotal any

01:01:33.059 --> 01:01:34.159
hospital has been named here.

01:01:36.149 --> 01:01:36.849
But all right.

01:01:37.029 --> 01:01:40.419
So look, you, you, you,
you, you fight to be heard.

01:01:42.339 --> 01:01:49.509
And then you do get a handle on what's
going on with you hormonally, but then

01:01:49.559 --> 01:01:50.949
you have the spike with your daughter.

01:01:50.949 --> 01:01:55.429
So that brings you to a near death
experience that then brings you into

01:01:55.429 --> 01:01:57.939
a much greater relationship with the
animals, which of course makes you a

01:01:57.939 --> 01:02:02.119
better professional until there you
are with the lion who's grooming you,

01:02:02.119 --> 01:02:05.449
which I must say, if I saw someone
with a lion nuzzling on someone

01:02:05.649 --> 01:02:08.579
with their teeth, I, of course,
wouldn't be able to interpret that.

01:02:08.769 --> 01:02:11.434
But I suppose you'd watch for
a while and say, well, Is that

01:02:11.434 --> 01:02:12.964
lion drawing blood or not?

01:02:13.224 --> 01:02:17.324
So, clearly, you were in a relationship
with this lion and then someone comes

01:02:17.324 --> 01:02:21.024
along, again, in the hierarchy of
your animal trains and messes that up.

01:02:21.534 --> 01:02:24.204
And now you decide to leave Hollywood.

01:02:24.204 --> 01:02:25.304
What do you then go off and do?

01:02:26.764 --> 01:02:34.014
Terry Kuebler: Well, we ended up
my husband, racing by then was,

01:02:34.404 --> 01:02:36.074
suffering in Southern California.

01:02:36.084 --> 01:02:39.994
So, so we would transition
from Sacramento, which was

01:02:39.994 --> 01:02:43.044
my hometown to Los Angeles.

01:02:43.044 --> 01:02:44.784
We would come up here every summer.

01:02:44.814 --> 01:02:51.784
Well, the racing ended up
Sacramento ended up having more

01:02:51.784 --> 01:02:54.224
dates up here than in Los Angeles.

01:02:54.554 --> 01:02:58.714
So we moved to the foothill
area of Sacramento.

01:02:58.944 --> 01:03:00.404
So we moved out of LA.

01:03:00.714 --> 01:03:01.634
Rupert Isaacson: And what did you do?

01:03:01.684 --> 01:03:01.934
Okay.

01:03:01.934 --> 01:03:04.971
He's still professionally
in the But what do you

01:03:04.971 --> 01:03:05.179
Terry Kuebler: do?

01:03:05.679 --> 01:03:11.089
I, I, I tried to, because my
brother David, who you've met, had

01:03:11.089 --> 01:03:17.459
the advertising agency, I tried to
do film work in Sacramento area.

01:03:17.859 --> 01:03:24.949
It just, It didn't compare to the industry
in Los Angeles, the money wasn't there,

01:03:24.949 --> 01:03:30.209
the, the education wasn't there of, of
what was required to train an animal.

01:03:30.969 --> 01:03:36.789
So, so I, I went back and forth with
that for a while and, and then in the

01:03:36.789 --> 01:03:42.009
process would do private training for,
for horse lessons and, and for people

01:03:42.029 --> 01:03:44.299
with problem horses, problem dogs.

01:03:44.784 --> 01:03:48.544
So I went, I became a specialist
in, as a problem solver.

01:03:50.304 --> 01:03:55.734
And, and what I learned through that
was, wow, you know, I, I, it's, it's

01:03:55.764 --> 01:03:57.954
the people who need the education.

01:03:58.054 --> 01:04:00.094
It's the people who need to change.

01:04:01.359 --> 01:04:06.119
And how do I people don't
necessarily want to hear that is

01:04:06.149 --> 01:04:07.689
like, your dog is not a problem.

01:04:07.699 --> 01:04:08.119
You are

01:04:10.949 --> 01:04:13.659
like, okay, how do you
how do you navigate that?

01:04:13.659 --> 01:04:18.229
Because I loved the whole thing
with the Hollywood industry was.

01:04:18.769 --> 01:04:22.959
I loved working 1 on 1 with
animals without having to

01:04:22.959 --> 01:04:24.589
deal with the general public.

01:04:25.799 --> 01:04:28.459
In private training, it was.

01:04:29.569 --> 01:04:33.849
Okay, somehow I need
to educate this person.

01:04:33.889 --> 01:04:40.159
So I need to become a person trainer
as much as an animal trainer.

01:04:41.189 --> 01:04:45.689
And through working with animals
and through communicating to the

01:04:45.689 --> 01:04:47.269
people there's this, this, this.

01:04:47.789 --> 01:04:49.499
Animal is not a problem.

01:04:50.169 --> 01:04:52.359
There's a behavior that you don't like.

01:04:53.649 --> 01:04:57.889
So there's a behavior that's a problem,
but the animal is a good animal.

01:04:58.839 --> 01:05:03.299
And I thought, wow, I would love
to have that mindset with people.

01:05:04.559 --> 01:05:09.299
I want to view people with the same
open heart that I view animals.

01:05:10.249 --> 01:05:11.179
How do I do that?

01:05:12.269 --> 01:05:14.289
And so I went into a coaching program.

01:05:15.519 --> 01:05:17.609
And that it was.

01:05:18.219 --> 01:05:26.029
Another spiritual elevation for me of
viewing people in the same way that

01:05:26.029 --> 01:05:34.459
I viewed animals of, you know, there
may be behaviors that this person is.

01:05:35.394 --> 01:05:39.584
Projecting or whatever that
that are serving it in some way,

01:05:41.734 --> 01:05:44.294
but the person is a good person.

01:05:44.344 --> 01:05:47.214
They have qualities that
I love and appreciate.

01:05:47.514 --> 01:05:52.834
And so after the coaching program,
I just, I learned to love people

01:05:52.834 --> 01:05:54.414
as much as I loved animals.

01:05:55.634 --> 01:06:01.824
And so again, my work evolved,
because now I could mentor and coach

01:06:01.874 --> 01:06:04.594
people along with their animals.

01:06:05.519 --> 01:06:11.139
So it evolved into almost like a marriage
counselor or a relationship counselor

01:06:11.139 --> 01:06:13.959
between the animal and their person.

01:06:16.059 --> 01:06:19.719
And it was what you need to
change in you in order to make

01:06:19.749 --> 01:06:21.539
this work for this animal.

01:06:23.249 --> 01:06:26.619
Rupert Isaacson: Now, the human
ego makes that a tricky process.

01:06:28.069 --> 01:06:35.019
How did you find yourself able
to Get people to open up to this

01:06:35.019 --> 01:06:38.029
kind of approach, because it
makes them look at themselves too.

01:06:38.029 --> 01:06:38.379
Well, that's

01:06:38.379 --> 01:06:42.659
Terry Kuebler: a gift I think that
the animals bring, because people are

01:06:42.659 --> 01:06:44.689
willing to change for their animals.

01:06:44.999 --> 01:06:46.359
Rupert Isaacson: You know,
you're right, they are.

01:06:46.559 --> 01:06:48.569
It's true, they're more willing
to change for their animals

01:06:48.579 --> 01:06:50.039
than they are for other people.

01:06:50.189 --> 01:06:50.689
It's so true.

01:06:51.934 --> 01:06:52.164
And

01:06:52.164 --> 01:06:54.564
Terry Kuebler: I, I take that
to myself of the, I would take

01:06:54.834 --> 01:06:57.444
Rupert Isaacson: that to myself to change

01:06:57.444 --> 01:07:04.144
Terry Kuebler: and, and, and people is
so, you know, working with people or

01:07:04.144 --> 01:07:06.594
what they would do whatever it took.

01:07:06.894 --> 01:07:10.684
And, and, and I did end
up being a last resort.

01:07:10.954 --> 01:07:15.444
You know, you are my last resort because
this horse is going to have to be put down

01:07:15.464 --> 01:07:21.084
or this dog is going to, you know, be put
down or whatever you are my last resort.

01:07:21.114 --> 01:07:24.614
And so their last resort is
I'm willing to do anything.

01:07:24.654 --> 01:07:25.784
What do I need to do?

01:07:26.274 --> 01:07:31.614
And then they were in the right
mindset to to change themselves.

01:07:32.509 --> 01:07:33.329
Rupert Isaacson: So interesting.

01:07:33.369 --> 01:07:39.799
So can you give us a couple of examples
of some really fundamental like sea change

01:07:39.799 --> 01:07:43.229
changes that some, that you saw
someone put themselves through in

01:07:43.229 --> 01:07:45.749
order to get better with their animal?

01:07:47.019 --> 01:07:52.569
Terry Kuebler: Well, I think the
most fundamental change for most

01:07:52.909 --> 01:08:00.499
people is, is their focus on, on,
and, and this dives into the self

01:08:00.499 --> 01:08:02.369
awareness of what do you want?

01:08:02.909 --> 01:08:05.989
What, what is it that you want to happen?

01:08:06.329 --> 01:08:09.669
Because I couldn't for a while.

01:08:09.669 --> 01:08:13.179
I couldn't figure out where,
why I would do something.

01:08:13.209 --> 01:08:17.919
And then the person watching me would
imitate me and the animal would look at

01:08:17.919 --> 01:08:20.719
me like, what, what did they just say?

01:08:21.789 --> 01:08:23.609
And I thought, what's the difference.

01:08:23.869 --> 01:08:30.559
And the difference was my mental
imagery was on what I wanted to happen.

01:08:31.324 --> 01:08:38.924
Like, if, say, if a person was struggling
with a horse, and I go, stop, what is

01:08:38.924 --> 01:08:44.434
it that you want, and they go, I just
want this horse to stop pulling on me,

01:08:44.474 --> 01:08:49.334
I want it to stop throwing its head, I
want it, it's like, no, that's what you

01:08:49.334 --> 01:08:56.569
don't want, what is it that you want,
and they go, They would have trouble

01:08:56.619 --> 01:09:01.109
coming up with it, you know, the pictures
mentally, what does it look like?

01:09:01.129 --> 01:09:02.889
What do you, what are you asking?

01:09:02.889 --> 01:09:07.869
And they go, I just want my
hair, my horse to drop his head.

01:09:07.969 --> 01:09:09.589
I want him to relax.

01:09:09.669 --> 01:09:14.059
I want to, and the horse would
sigh and do it immediately.

01:09:14.059 --> 01:09:18.319
Why didn't you tell
me, you know, and, and.

01:09:18.919 --> 01:09:23.729
And the person's face would just
go, Oh, my God, did I just do that?

01:09:25.239 --> 01:09:28.239
And you go, Well, what do you think?

01:09:29.769 --> 01:09:37.759
So, teaching a person to visualize and
focus on what it was that they wanted to

01:09:37.759 --> 01:09:45.509
happen was huge to the animal because the
animal would respond to it immediately.

01:09:47.689 --> 01:09:53.669
And that was a huge aha moment
for the person to go, Oh,

01:09:53.679 --> 01:09:55.439
what am I normally picturing?

01:09:56.174 --> 01:10:01.864
What am I normally focused on and
they 90 percent of the time are

01:10:02.194 --> 01:10:10.024
focused on the problem and how
to fix it, which is a completely

01:10:10.034 --> 01:10:17.384
different mindset and energy than the
solution and what that looks like.

01:10:17.454 --> 01:10:18.664
Yeah.

01:10:19.824 --> 01:10:20.004
Yeah.

01:10:20.004 --> 01:10:23.819
When you go to the solution
and what that looks like, the

01:10:23.819 --> 01:10:25.572
animal goes, Oh, very clear.

01:10:25.572 --> 01:10:25.922
Done.

01:10:25.922 --> 01:10:27.484
Right there with you.

01:10:31.124 --> 01:10:32.824
Rupert Isaacson: A lot of people
who are listening to this are dog

01:10:32.824 --> 01:10:35.014
owners, not, not just horsey people.

01:10:36.124 --> 01:10:43.104
I'm intrigued by what, because horses,
people tend to own and ride and then go

01:10:43.104 --> 01:10:46.004
away, but a dog you live with 24 seven.

01:10:46.554 --> 01:10:50.884
What would, what can you give
us an example of a fundamental

01:10:50.884 --> 01:10:54.624
personality change that you
saw someone allow themselves to

01:10:54.624 --> 01:10:56.734
go through on behalf of a dog?

01:10:58.104 --> 01:11:04.364
Terry Kuebler: Well, again, for
instance, the timing and the

01:11:04.934 --> 01:11:07.544
pictures of focusing on the problem.

01:11:07.964 --> 01:11:15.629
For instance, My dog won't come
to me and, and the person is going

01:11:15.629 --> 01:11:22.909
so that I can hit you because I'm
so scared and I'm so mad that you,

01:11:23.039 --> 01:11:24.689
that you are running away from me.

01:11:25.009 --> 01:11:26.539
Don't run across that street.

01:11:26.549 --> 01:11:27.329
Don't run away.

01:11:27.349 --> 01:11:31.709
Don't is what they're picturing
and their entire energy gets.

01:11:32.119 --> 01:11:37.239
aggressive and scared because
of all of the things that

01:11:37.249 --> 01:11:38.549
they're picturing happening.

01:11:39.459 --> 01:11:44.659
Rather than them picturing, come
over here so that I can hug you

01:11:44.929 --> 01:11:46.359
because I love being with you.

01:11:46.769 --> 01:11:50.059
That's completely different
energy than, you know, kind of.

01:11:52.139 --> 01:11:52.799
Have you seen

01:11:52.839 --> 01:11:55.069
Rupert Isaacson: someone
actually able to put that anger

01:11:55.079 --> 01:11:56.659
and fear down in that moment?

01:11:57.019 --> 01:11:59.399
Or is it more, you coach
them to that moment?

01:11:59.399 --> 01:12:01.639
Because when someone is flooded
with cortisol, you know, they

01:12:01.639 --> 01:12:04.529
usually can't change what they're
doing in that moment, right?

01:12:05.329 --> 01:12:08.539
Terry Kuebler: No, but they can,
they can be coached through it.

01:12:09.269 --> 01:12:13.339
Try this instead, you know,
try, what are you picturing?

01:12:13.339 --> 01:12:13.639
What are you?

01:12:13.839 --> 01:12:17.149
So, so it goes into this self evaluation.

01:12:17.149 --> 01:12:22.599
That's why for me that the self
awareness is such a big piece.

01:12:22.999 --> 01:12:28.889
And from Candice Carradine and the
HeartMath Institute, now we know all

01:12:28.889 --> 01:12:34.429
about the coherency between what the
heart wants and what the brain is doing.

01:12:34.899 --> 01:12:41.899
Worrying about right that when the brain
is focused on all the negative things

01:12:41.909 --> 01:12:47.529
that could happen and the fear your
entire nervous system changes, your entire

01:12:47.559 --> 01:12:54.169
energy changes, your chemistry changes,
the animals are aware of all of that, and

01:12:54.169 --> 01:13:01.389
it confuses them because it's chaotic,
you know, it's, it's It's not coherent.

01:13:01.799 --> 01:13:07.429
So the messages are, are very
confusing and chaotic because

01:13:07.429 --> 01:13:12.009
the animal is receiving the
information in an energetic way.

01:13:13.389 --> 01:13:14.149
Rupert Isaacson: That makes sense.

01:13:14.179 --> 01:13:15.409
Emotional, i.

01:13:15.419 --> 01:13:15.429
e.

01:13:15.499 --> 01:13:16.089
energetic.

01:13:16.089 --> 01:13:16.519
Yes.

01:13:16.959 --> 01:13:17.269
Terry Kuebler: Yeah.

01:13:17.339 --> 01:13:17.599
Rupert Isaacson: Yeah.

01:13:17.979 --> 01:13:21.989
Alright, so now you're, you're,
you've moved to coaching

01:13:21.999 --> 01:13:23.449
human animal partnerships.

01:13:24.979 --> 01:13:26.549
Privately there in Sacramento.

01:13:26.889 --> 01:13:28.109
Where does it go from there

01:13:29.949 --> 01:13:30.479
Terry Kuebler: from there?

01:13:30.509 --> 01:13:31.119
It goes.

01:13:31.309 --> 01:13:37.689
It just keeps going farther down the
end because I get to learn as much.

01:13:38.229 --> 01:13:40.509
So I'm continually a student.

01:13:40.609 --> 01:13:46.679
Which I love, I get to learn as
much from every different scenario

01:13:46.679 --> 01:13:53.159
and every different aha moment that
people have because the animals

01:13:53.159 --> 01:13:55.569
are just so responsive to it.

01:13:55.899 --> 01:14:00.509
And it's, it, it takes me
to what, what's that about?

01:14:00.529 --> 01:14:02.589
What is it that they're picking up on?

01:14:03.129 --> 01:14:10.039
So it went to, I love now doing
self empowerment retreats.

01:14:10.549 --> 01:14:19.239
Because, like I said, I've gone
to the place of, wow, animals are

01:14:19.299 --> 01:14:27.409
teaching me that intuition and
channeling and information comes

01:14:27.409 --> 01:14:30.139
through these fields of awareness.

01:14:31.079 --> 01:14:39.049
And we have the capacity to
environmentally be of this

01:14:39.049 --> 01:14:40.599
earth rather than on this earth.

01:14:42.159 --> 01:14:48.989
So, this new fascination with
people wanting to re engage with

01:14:48.989 --> 01:14:53.329
nature is a perfect fit for me.

01:14:53.569 --> 01:14:58.749
It fascinates me that people are
starting to realize we've become

01:14:58.779 --> 01:15:01.739
so disconnected, so in our heads.

01:15:02.304 --> 01:15:11.794
That it's a health hazard to us and to the
planet, that how do we get back in sync?

01:15:12.194 --> 01:15:16.984
So the, the whole study of,
of entanglement and, you know,

01:15:16.984 --> 01:15:21.184
where science is going is just
absolutely fascinating to me.

01:15:21.634 --> 01:15:26.464
And to get to play with that, with
animals as, as, As co teachers in a

01:15:26.464 --> 01:15:29.694
retreat setting, what could be better?

01:15:30.624 --> 01:15:31.654
Rupert Isaacson: Okay,
so talk me through it.

01:15:31.654 --> 01:15:34.404
If I come on one of your retreats,
if one of the listeners comes on your

01:15:34.404 --> 01:15:38.204
retreats, and by the way, listeners, I
would encourage you to, because I was

01:15:38.204 --> 01:15:41.574
on a retreat with Terry in Italy and
It couldn't have been more delightful.

01:15:41.574 --> 01:15:44.204
I'm going to go into some
of the revelations that you

01:15:44.314 --> 01:15:46.304
brought through in a moment.

01:15:46.354 --> 01:15:51.614
But what would you do when somebody
arrives and says, yes, Terry, I would

01:15:51.614 --> 01:15:55.494
like to have this experience with you
where you can now begin to connect

01:15:55.534 --> 01:16:00.994
me to more of this meta field beyond
just, you know, An individual animal

01:16:01.584 --> 01:16:07.604
to animals to nature itself to, you
know, Oh, I'm looking at the fox going

01:16:07.674 --> 01:16:11.594
past my window in the middle of London.

01:16:12.274 --> 01:16:12.704
Wow.

01:16:13.194 --> 01:16:14.164
Yes, yes, yes.

01:16:14.714 --> 01:16:15.094
Okay.

01:16:15.094 --> 01:16:16.604
Terry Kuebler: See how that lights you up.

01:16:16.614 --> 01:16:18.224
Why does that light you up, Rupert?

01:16:18.384 --> 01:16:18.474
It's

01:16:18.474 --> 01:16:19.234
Rupert Isaacson: nature right there.

01:16:19.504 --> 01:16:22.984
And the two wood pigeons
that were down in the garden.

01:16:23.164 --> 01:16:24.934
Oh, and now the fox has
gone up on the roof.

01:16:24.934 --> 01:16:25.064
Rupert.

01:16:25.084 --> 01:16:28.234
of my mother's studio.

01:16:28.564 --> 01:16:29.184
How wonderful.

01:16:29.804 --> 01:16:31.374
A quick a quick aside.

01:16:31.404 --> 01:16:32.344
I'm in London right now.

01:16:32.344 --> 01:16:34.934
I live normally in Germany, but I'm in
London right now because my mother's

01:16:34.959 --> 01:16:40.099
She's gone in for a back operation, so
I'm here sort of in back up, and her

01:16:40.109 --> 01:16:44.449
studio, I'm watching the fox go up the
roof, her studio has a, in the middle

01:16:44.449 --> 01:16:47.919
of London, it's really middle middle,
has a family of foxes living behind it,

01:16:47.919 --> 01:16:50.389
who've taken to coming up from the roof,
and I've been waking up every morning,

01:16:50.589 --> 01:16:54.019
sleeping in the studio, to the foxes
scrabbling on the skylight, because

01:16:54.019 --> 01:16:56.879
I think it's warm up there, and then
playing with each other, there's a whole

01:16:56.879 --> 01:16:59.699
family of them, and they're playing
on the skylight, and I've been taking

01:16:59.879 --> 01:17:02.614
pictures of them from underneath, they
have no idea that I'm there, and I've

01:17:02.774 --> 01:17:04.464
Terry Kuebler: They have
no idea you're there.

01:17:04.464 --> 01:17:05.604
How fun is that?

01:17:05.604 --> 01:17:06.274
Rupert Isaacson: It's extraordinary.

01:17:06.274 --> 01:17:06.634
Terry Kuebler: It's

01:17:06.634 --> 01:17:06.994
Rupert Isaacson: extraordinary.

01:17:07.044 --> 01:17:12.784
So Terry, when one of us wants to come on
a retreat with you, are you pairing us up

01:17:12.784 --> 01:17:15.894
with animals that you've got or are you.

01:17:16.294 --> 01:17:20.274
Working with animals on a
sort of more symbolic way.

01:17:20.274 --> 01:17:22.574
Well, how, how, how's a retreat work?

01:17:22.594 --> 01:17:23.154
And what do you do?

01:17:23.154 --> 01:17:23.994
What do you show us?

01:17:25.354 --> 01:17:31.884
Terry Kuebler: So, a lot of
times it has been horse women.

01:17:32.434 --> 01:17:35.204
And I, I don't relegate it to women.

01:17:35.204 --> 01:17:39.464
It just seems like, you know, horse
functions seem to be 90 percent women.

01:17:40.044 --> 01:17:43.704
So a lot of times it's women
that come with their horses.

01:17:44.514 --> 01:17:51.044
That want to form a deeper connection
with their horse, but we do it through

01:17:51.434 --> 01:18:00.844
the horses facilitating play and a
lot of, a lot of that happens because

01:18:00.844 --> 01:18:07.674
this is the first initiation that
people have to their mindset, actually

01:18:08.864 --> 01:18:11.934
affecting their field of energy.

01:18:12.184 --> 01:18:14.794
So we talk about, you
know, the fields of energy.

01:18:15.774 --> 01:18:23.944
Well, a retreat situation is really
reconnecting with, with nature.

01:18:23.944 --> 01:18:31.014
So there's interaction with animals, be
it horses or just out in nature itself,

01:18:31.094 --> 01:18:36.684
I love to go places like Yellowstone,
you know, in, in the United States

01:18:36.694 --> 01:18:38.304
where there's a lot of wildlife.

01:18:38.804 --> 01:18:44.354
So it can be just while sitting out and
observing and journaling in, in wildlife.

01:18:45.604 --> 01:18:50.994
It's drumming, some journey
work, so teaching people how

01:18:50.994 --> 01:18:56.824
to journey and get answers from
their own intuition and guidance.

01:18:58.494 --> 01:19:04.934
A lot of variety, I, I, I kind of,
design the retreat according to the

01:19:04.934 --> 01:19:10.104
group that I'm putting it together for,
you know, whether it be horse people or,

01:19:10.144 --> 01:19:13.714
or women's empowerment or leadership.

01:19:14.704 --> 01:19:15.544
retreats.

01:19:16.314 --> 01:19:18.784
So, so what do you want to do, Rupert?

01:19:20.894 --> 01:19:23.174
What if, what are we
doing at Castle Leslie?

01:19:23.174 --> 01:19:24.184
That's what I want to know.

01:19:25.244 --> 01:19:31.389
Rupert Isaacson: Well, I'm gonna talk
to, okay, yes, and actually Okay.

01:19:31.439 --> 01:19:35.059
So listeners, Terry and I are going to be
doing some retreats together and Castle

01:19:35.059 --> 01:19:36.989
Lesley is an amazing place in Ireland.

01:19:36.989 --> 01:19:41.849
And if you have listened to Sammy
Lesley's podcast here on Live Free,

01:19:41.849 --> 01:19:46.539
Write Free, she's the person who owns,
runs and conceived Castle Lesley, which

01:19:46.539 --> 01:19:48.169
is extraordinary place in Ireland.

01:19:48.169 --> 01:19:50.069
It's like going to, to Narnia.

01:19:50.699 --> 01:19:52.199
Please do join us on one of these.

01:19:52.669 --> 01:19:56.149
I'm going to talk a little bit
about some things you told me.

01:19:56.439 --> 01:20:02.169
when we were on the retreat in Italy
and that I found very intriguing

01:20:02.169 --> 01:20:04.259
that I think listeners would as well.

01:20:04.309 --> 01:20:11.249
So if you remember Terry, we were sitting
talking and you were saying, you know,

01:20:11.299 --> 01:20:17.109
you, you had been doing a lot with
horses and as you were getting further

01:20:17.109 --> 01:20:20.504
and further into looking through the
lens of the heart, looking through the

01:20:20.504 --> 01:20:24.994
lens of the spirit, trying to be less of
a particle, more of a wave, all of the

01:20:25.004 --> 01:20:29.334
things that you've been talking about,
entanglement, that at a certain point

01:20:29.344 --> 01:20:34.044
you, you said you were starting to get
messages from horses saying, you know,

01:20:34.534 --> 01:20:40.284
we've been holding up the change, the,
a lot of the change in sort of Western

01:20:40.284 --> 01:20:43.424
humanity for the last 30, 40 years.

01:20:44.234 --> 01:20:48.704
And we're getting to the point
where our work may be done and

01:20:48.704 --> 01:20:51.234
now other species are taking over.

01:20:52.174 --> 01:20:57.334
And I found that really intriguing because
I thought, well, yes, actually, in the

01:20:57.434 --> 01:21:01.374
sort of 40 years I've been involved in the
horse industry, I have seen that shift.

01:21:02.174 --> 01:21:05.674
It's not that you don't still have people
who rigidly adhere to the old school,

01:21:06.354 --> 01:21:10.414
but more and more and more, even at
the top of the sort of sport industry,

01:21:10.694 --> 01:21:15.744
one sees a softening, one sees or at
least more people moving that way.

01:21:16.129 --> 01:21:19.479
Even if there's resistance than
than than there ever was and

01:21:19.479 --> 01:21:21.259
I think in the horse industry,
things are actually quite positive.

01:21:21.879 --> 01:21:22.979
They're going in a positive way.

01:21:22.979 --> 01:21:25.189
Let's say so when you said that
to me, it's like, well, yeah, I

01:21:25.189 --> 01:21:26.739
sort of have seen that parallel.

01:21:27.299 --> 01:21:32.589
And then you said to me, so now I said,
what is anyone else speaking to you?

01:21:32.609 --> 01:21:34.279
And you said to me,
yes, Rupert, the whales.

01:21:35.784 --> 01:21:42.344
And I registered my own reaction,
and there were two Ruperts there.

01:21:42.424 --> 01:21:45.544
There was an older Rupert that, I
mean, I'm quite old Rupert now anyway,

01:21:45.574 --> 01:21:49.484
so yeah, but an older, older Rupert I
could recognize from a younger self,

01:21:49.864 --> 01:21:54.694
automatically putting on a little knee
jerk there, going, Oh, talking to the

01:21:54.694 --> 01:21:58.354
whales, and this is the Rupert who's
gone, you know, he works with shamans

01:21:58.364 --> 01:22:03.584
in Kalahari, he's seen people shapeshift
into leopards, and yet even with all

01:22:03.584 --> 01:22:07.724
that, there's still like this little
vestige of the old school, which is

01:22:07.724 --> 01:22:12.224
basically just the people that raised
me talking, you know, and I observed

01:22:12.264 --> 01:22:16.015
that and I went, Ooh, if I'm having that
reaction, that probably means there's

01:22:16.015 --> 01:22:19.934
something in what Terry's saying, because
it must be challenging some old paradigm.

01:22:20.504 --> 01:22:23.674
And so therefore, I should
know what the new paradigm is.

01:22:24.004 --> 01:22:24.704
Then I was intrigued.

01:22:24.744 --> 01:22:25.314
So I said well,

01:22:27.604 --> 01:22:28.884
do you remember I asked you?

01:22:29.414 --> 01:22:34.704
Is that because Because because I thought
let me just put all prejudice aside.

01:22:34.704 --> 01:22:39.054
Let me just ask the curious question
here So what what I was curious

01:22:39.054 --> 01:22:44.464
was is If whales are deciding now
to come forward and help us, which

01:22:44.464 --> 01:22:47.954
would make sense on sort of the more
planetary, the more global level

01:22:47.954 --> 01:22:50.204
we are after all a planet of water.

01:22:50.824 --> 01:22:53.914
Is it because in the last 40 years we
have stopped hunting them basically?

01:22:53.914 --> 01:22:56.614
I mean, there's a couple of countries
that do, but we've basically

01:22:56.614 --> 01:22:58.574
made a decision as a species.

01:22:59.084 --> 01:23:05.334
to stop hunting that species, you
could say, and have the whales

01:23:05.334 --> 01:23:11.874
noticed and have they now, does
that make them think we're ready for

01:23:11.874 --> 01:23:13.364
some sort of shift in consciousness?

01:23:13.684 --> 01:23:15.944
And where are they in
consciousness and where are they

01:23:15.964 --> 01:23:17.564
in relation to our consciousness?

01:23:17.834 --> 01:23:21.464
So could you talk to us
a little bit about that?

01:23:23.114 --> 01:23:30.784
Terry Kuebler: Yeah, and, and we'll take
it back to because the, the messages

01:23:31.704 --> 01:23:34.214
that the horses had completed there.

01:23:34.779 --> 01:23:42.269
Soul contract of helping humans evolve
was coming from the whales, not from

01:23:42.269 --> 01:23:47.669
the horses, the horses are still
very, that is their part of their

01:23:47.699 --> 01:23:55.229
contract with humanity is to help
evolve it help raise its consciousness.

01:23:57.169 --> 01:23:57.809
And.

01:23:59.469 --> 01:24:06.029
If I take it back to, for me, my
intuition, what I've learned is

01:24:06.059 --> 01:24:09.759
that my intuition comes to me in a.

01:24:10.699 --> 01:24:17.739
nonlinear way, meaning that a lot of
times I'll start to receive the answer

01:24:17.749 --> 01:24:20.119
before I've even asked the question.

01:24:21.549 --> 01:24:27.179
And then when I go and I ask a question,
I go, well, I must be just making that

01:24:27.179 --> 01:24:31.289
up because I already was thinking about
that, you know, a week ago or whatever.

01:24:31.609 --> 01:24:37.509
And now I recognize the pattern of
Answers start to come and then I form the

01:24:37.509 --> 01:24:41.289
question and and the dots get connected.

01:24:42.269 --> 01:24:47.339
So the reason that I say that is when
I say that the whales were calling

01:24:47.339 --> 01:24:53.619
to me what now in my mind, I relate
a calling to it's it's part of the

01:24:53.619 --> 01:24:58.009
answer starting to come through of
now the whales want to teach us.

01:24:59.009 --> 01:25:02.719
I hadn't connected yet with whales.

01:25:02.989 --> 01:25:08.339
I didn't know that I was going to,
but I kept getting this niggling in my

01:25:08.339 --> 01:25:11.159
mind of, I need to be around whales.

01:25:11.159 --> 01:25:14.019
I need to connect with whales.

01:25:14.049 --> 01:25:16.239
They have something important to teach.

01:25:16.809 --> 01:25:20.659
So taking it back to that, that,
that, that was the calling that I

01:25:20.659 --> 01:25:27.179
was having intuition wise of, of it's
time for other species to step up.

01:25:27.939 --> 01:25:34.499
So then when I, when I decided to
start doing some channel writing of

01:25:34.569 --> 01:25:40.509
connecting with whale consciousness,
it wasn't an individual whale or

01:25:40.659 --> 01:25:42.389
an individual group of whales.

01:25:43.969 --> 01:25:44.669
It was.

01:25:45.134 --> 01:25:51.994
The collective conscious of whales
saying horses have done their job

01:25:52.604 --> 01:25:54.394
in raising people's consciousness.

01:25:55.534 --> 01:25:57.854
that now they're asking
the right questions.

01:25:58.304 --> 01:26:04.484
And do you remember that I said
earlier, when you start being aware

01:26:04.484 --> 01:26:08.474
of these fields of consciousness,
the animals are already there aware.

01:26:09.904 --> 01:26:14.934
That's why the whales are ready, because
we've gotten to the place where the whales

01:26:14.934 --> 01:26:17.954
are go, Oh, hello, here you are finally.

01:26:18.514 --> 01:26:21.514
Rupert Isaacson: Now,
the lion, when you Right.

01:26:21.584 --> 01:26:22.244
Now we

01:26:22.274 --> 01:26:25.364
Terry Kuebler: can teach you
because you just woke up.

01:26:25.864 --> 01:26:29.864
You just entered the room or
this field of consciousness.

01:26:29.894 --> 01:26:31.334
You just entered it.

01:26:31.744 --> 01:26:33.644
And now we can have a conversation.

01:26:34.014 --> 01:26:41.334
That's how it feels to me as far as
other species being ready to teach us.

01:26:41.594 --> 01:26:43.154
No, they've always been ready.

01:26:43.204 --> 01:26:49.214
We're now entering the room of
that field of consciousness.

01:26:49.214 --> 01:26:49.269
Of course.

01:26:49.819 --> 01:26:54.799
And it's because our beliefs have gone
there, science is proving, you know,

01:26:54.799 --> 01:26:59.759
these different fields of energy and
these different connections are possible.

01:27:00.329 --> 01:27:04.249
So we're entering the room, so to speak.

01:27:05.259 --> 01:27:06.109
Does that make sense?

01:27:06.289 --> 01:27:06.779
Rupert Isaacson: It does.

01:27:06.819 --> 01:27:14.009
What, what, what, what messages of
note have come into you from the Wales?

01:27:15.424 --> 01:27:20.074
Terry Kuebler: Well, a lot of the
teachings were about vibration and

01:27:20.074 --> 01:27:30.184
frequency, how how healing the planet
and ourselves and it, you know, it was

01:27:30.244 --> 01:27:34.874
kind of, I, I believe it was Edward
Casey said a long time ago, think of

01:27:34.874 --> 01:27:37.154
things in vibration and frequency.

01:27:37.704 --> 01:27:38.684
That was Tesla.

01:27:40.034 --> 01:27:45.334
Rupert Isaacson: But, but, but Casey
also, what Casey said was that rather like

01:27:45.344 --> 01:27:50.704
Jung, he, but Casey called it the Akashic
record, Jung called it the collective

01:27:50.884 --> 01:27:55.094
consciousness, that there is this sort of
all human ideas, all ideas, all experience

01:27:56.644 --> 01:28:02.214
that has ever existed or ever will exist,
all exist sort of simultaneously in this

01:28:03.044 --> 01:28:05.004
quantum field and you can access it.

01:28:06.044 --> 01:28:10.514
If you want to intentionally
sort of thing that right.

01:28:10.814 --> 01:28:11.074
Yeah.

01:28:11.504 --> 01:28:13.604
And of course, just just while
you're saying that you talked

01:28:13.614 --> 01:28:15.554
about frequency and vibration.

01:28:15.554 --> 01:28:19.244
What are whales, but things that
exist by frequency and vibration.

01:28:19.244 --> 01:28:19.644
Yeah,

01:28:19.884 --> 01:28:20.184
Terry Kuebler: right.

01:28:20.234 --> 01:28:30.404
And they and they the information coming
through was about the Akashic records So

01:28:30.404 --> 01:28:37.634
to speak for the planetary consciousness,
that the water contains memories.

01:28:38.384 --> 01:28:38.734
Rupert Isaacson: Right.

01:28:38.964 --> 01:28:39.664
Yes, liquid intelligence.

01:28:39.664 --> 01:28:40.554
They

01:28:40.554 --> 01:28:43.044
Terry Kuebler: are able to
access that information.

01:28:43.054 --> 01:28:48.714
So they were saying humans are concerned
right now with losing their elders

01:28:48.714 --> 01:28:50.519
and with losing indigenous people.

01:28:50.859 --> 01:28:51.689
cultures.

01:28:52.529 --> 01:28:53.819
We're still here.

01:28:53.859 --> 01:28:56.239
We have access to the water.

01:28:56.239 --> 01:29:00.979
We have access to the, the
records of, of the planet.

01:29:02.909 --> 01:29:05.519
And that's how we navigate.

01:29:05.519 --> 01:29:07.729
Cause I was like, why do whales sing?

01:29:08.329 --> 01:29:12.869
And they were saying, we are
seeing our stories into the water.

01:29:13.829 --> 01:29:17.539
We are sharing our, our
navigational routes, our

01:29:17.539 --> 01:29:20.919
histories, our stories our culture.

01:29:21.329 --> 01:29:26.119
Into the water, and they said,
think of it like the rock

01:29:26.119 --> 01:29:29.969
paintings for indigenous cultures.

01:29:30.619 --> 01:29:38.079
You know, or the storytelling tools
this week, the water is our tool and

01:29:38.079 --> 01:29:40.449
so there was all information like that.

01:29:40.459 --> 01:29:41.839
That was like, oh, wow.

01:29:42.109 --> 01:29:46.189
Now, and I, when I get information
like that, it's like, okay, go

01:29:46.189 --> 01:29:48.399
research that and find out more.

01:29:48.419 --> 01:29:52.289
And it takes me down these
rabbit holes of, oh, there it is.

01:29:52.319 --> 01:29:53.279
Oh, there it is.

01:29:53.299 --> 01:29:57.129
You know, water has memory and that's
we talked about that on the retreat

01:29:57.129 --> 01:29:59.359
a little bit of imbuing the water.

01:29:59.749 --> 01:30:04.679
With your intentions and
changing the structure of it.

01:30:05.799 --> 01:30:10.719
Well, they're saying that we have the
capacity to do that, to, to clean up water

01:30:10.719 --> 01:30:14.779
pollution is just do it vibrationally.

01:30:17.449 --> 01:30:21.809
And and then there's, yeah,
it's just, it's fascinating.

01:30:21.819 --> 01:30:26.009
And then there's the elephants are
coming forward now, and we could

01:30:26.039 --> 01:30:28.979
teach how to do that with the earth.

01:30:29.239 --> 01:30:32.679
The earth also has the capacity to retain

01:30:32.929 --> 01:30:33.269
Rupert Isaacson: memories.

01:30:33.269 --> 01:30:35.759
Right, that was going to be my next
question, because for example, when

01:30:35.759 --> 01:30:39.329
I'm hanging with the Bushmen, the Sun
Bushmen, and the Kalahari, they'll always

01:30:39.329 --> 01:30:44.289
say the earth is us, the earth is our
ancestors, our, our bones, our dust.

01:30:45.289 --> 01:30:49.379
Becomes the earth, you know, we
we are so that was going to be my

01:30:49.379 --> 01:30:52.219
next questions Okay, so elephants
earth talk to us about that

01:30:53.594 --> 01:30:58.314
Terry Kuebler: Well, that's I, I
haven't gone there yet, haven't been

01:30:58.314 --> 01:31:02.054
with elephants yet, but, but that's the
message coming through is that there's

01:31:02.064 --> 01:31:06.964
something about vibration and frequency
and, and the, how they receive it

01:31:06.964 --> 01:31:12.954
through their feet how they know what,
how they, because there was a like a

01:31:12.964 --> 01:31:19.534
documentary that was narrated by Morgan
Freeman that talked about a rescue that

01:31:19.534 --> 01:31:24.824
would release elephants back into the
wild and they couldn't figure out how

01:31:25.364 --> 01:31:29.954
the elephants from prior years would
always show up wherever they were going

01:31:29.954 --> 01:31:35.204
to do the release, even though it was a
different time of year, and hundreds of

01:31:35.204 --> 01:31:40.804
miles away, the elephants that they had
already released would show up there, and

01:31:40.804 --> 01:31:43.254
they were going, how do they know this?

01:31:44.234 --> 01:31:49.334
You know, where we're going to be when
we're going to be there, and I always

01:31:49.334 --> 01:31:55.754
found that fascinating that there's
some form of knowing or communication

01:31:55.764 --> 01:32:00.864
that the elephants have with the
intention of the humans that raised them.

01:32:02.034 --> 01:32:03.384
Rupert Isaacson: It's very interesting.

01:32:03.959 --> 01:32:09.549
You know, we know that whales sing,
speak, communicate, you know, vast

01:32:09.559 --> 01:32:12.869
distances through vibrations of
frequency, some of which we can

01:32:12.869 --> 01:32:14.249
hear and some of which we cannot.

01:32:14.429 --> 01:32:15.939
And of course elephants do the same.

01:32:15.979 --> 01:32:22.379
They often communicate at very low
frequencies that the human ear can't

01:32:22.849 --> 01:32:24.319
pick up, but the instruments can.

01:32:24.379 --> 01:32:27.859
And I find it fascinating that we're now.

01:32:28.829 --> 01:32:34.419
at a point in human culture where we
can accept through instrumentation

01:32:35.019 --> 01:32:40.439
that there are many, many planes, even
in our own physical plane, that we

01:32:40.439 --> 01:32:45.339
cannot perceive like infrared, like
ultraviolet, like higher frequencies or

01:32:45.339 --> 01:32:48.629
lower frequencies that we now can accept.

01:32:48.629 --> 01:32:51.429
Whereas perhaps a hundred years ago
or 50 years ago, if we'd have said no

01:32:52.099 --> 01:32:54.629
any, if it's, you know, if I don't,
if I can't see it with my eyes and

01:32:54.629 --> 01:32:56.699
hear it with my ears, It's not there.

01:32:56.749 --> 01:32:59.329
And now we know that
that is just not true.

01:32:59.859 --> 01:33:03.439
Even though, of course, we'd had
the telephone, we'd had electricity,

01:33:03.439 --> 01:33:07.069
we'd had all these things that we
actually couldn't explain, couldn't

01:33:07.069 --> 01:33:08.889
see, but knew, knew were there.

01:33:09.109 --> 01:33:11.379
But we say, well, I can sort of see
electricity because I flicked the light

01:33:11.419 --> 01:33:12.919
on, but no, that's not electricity.

01:33:12.919 --> 01:33:15.269
That's light created by electricity.

01:33:15.269 --> 01:33:16.869
We still can't see what electricity is.

01:33:17.039 --> 01:33:17.819
Oh, I can see lightning.

01:33:17.819 --> 01:33:19.249
Yeah, but that's not electricity.

01:33:19.249 --> 01:33:20.229
That's electricity.

01:33:20.239 --> 01:33:23.704
That's electrical energy creating
a visual form of something else,

01:33:23.704 --> 01:33:24.944
but what is electricity itself?

01:33:24.944 --> 01:33:26.054
We, we still don't know.

01:33:26.464 --> 01:33:26.844
And

01:33:29.144 --> 01:33:33.064
these conversa, conversations like this
with you give, give me a lot of hope

01:33:33.094 --> 01:33:38.344
because really what this begins to sound
like is the sort of conversation that

01:33:38.344 --> 01:33:46.834
I might have in the Kalahari with one
of my teachers, who was a healer, was a

01:33:46.834 --> 01:33:54.974
shaman, deeply involved in walking the
line between physical world and the non

01:33:54.974 --> 01:33:58.774
physical world and the animal world and
the human world and having to do that

01:33:58.774 --> 01:34:02.414
because your very survival is based on it.

01:34:02.544 --> 01:34:06.804
What I'm wondering as you are
telling me these things is, does

01:34:06.804 --> 01:34:08.374
it all come down to empathy?

01:34:14.859 --> 01:34:16.769
Terry Kuebler: I'm not
sure, say more about that.

01:34:16.769 --> 01:34:18.759
I'm not sure I understand the question.

01:34:18.919 --> 01:34:19.619
So, so

01:34:19.619 --> 01:34:22.069
Rupert Isaacson: empathy, empathy and
sympathy are two different things.

01:34:22.069 --> 01:34:25.399
Like, so let's, let's say, I don't
know, you, you stub your toe on the

01:34:25.399 --> 01:34:26.789
door and like, Oh, Terry, you're right.

01:34:26.799 --> 01:34:27.479
That's sympathy.

01:34:27.979 --> 01:34:33.499
But if I have stubbed my toe
pretty recently and you stub

01:34:33.499 --> 01:34:34.679
your toe, I'm in your shoes.

01:34:34.709 --> 01:34:36.759
I can feel what you need.

01:34:37.169 --> 01:34:39.339
And I'm like, Oh, Terry, do you need this?

01:34:40.419 --> 01:34:43.379
Because I can feel what you need.

01:34:43.429 --> 01:34:44.999
That's a very banal example.

01:34:45.469 --> 01:34:50.929
But, so, empathy between humans, say,
is walk a mile in that person's shoes.

01:34:51.344 --> 01:34:56.424
Well, you can't, but you can, with your
imagination, project it there, and then

01:34:56.424 --> 01:34:59.614
that suddenly opens your heart, and that
suddenly opens your heart to compassion.

01:34:59.614 --> 01:35:01.684
You were talking about heart
coherence, and what it will

01:35:01.684 --> 01:35:03.744
certainly do is dissolve conflict.

01:35:04.444 --> 01:35:07.734
What it will certainly do
is reach a better outcome.

01:35:08.329 --> 01:35:12.739
Then if you didn't do that, it will
open up channels of communication.

01:35:12.739 --> 01:35:14.569
It will repair relationships.

01:35:14.569 --> 01:35:17.029
It will avoid war, for example.

01:35:18.499 --> 01:35:22.819
But it's one, we find it hard enough
to do that between our fellow human.

01:35:23.169 --> 01:35:28.939
When we go trans species, however, I
think very interesting things happen.

01:35:28.939 --> 01:35:35.729
And I guess I'm feeling that if we
are basically a hunter gatherer,

01:35:37.689 --> 01:35:42.199
highly intelligent ape, who evolved
at the, margin of land and water,

01:35:42.259 --> 01:35:45.129
because that's our history of
about the last 300, 000 years.

01:35:46.299 --> 01:35:48.149
Therefore, we're sort of amphibious.

01:35:48.149 --> 01:35:48.789
Therefore,

01:35:50.809 --> 01:35:54.239
the relationship with the
water is very important for us.

01:35:54.359 --> 01:35:58.279
And it can be positive or negative
depending on what we imbue it with,

01:35:58.309 --> 01:36:01.159
because that's liquid intelligence,
like our cerebral spinal fluid

01:36:01.159 --> 01:36:02.609
and our blood is all part of that.

01:36:04.369 --> 01:36:07.989
The liquid in our cells is all part of
that same water that's on the planet.

01:36:08.889 --> 01:36:16.219
And then if we begin to bring
that empathy to other species,

01:36:17.519 --> 01:36:19.979
a horse, a dog, a lion, a whale,

01:36:23.249 --> 01:36:26.939
a rock, a stone, a star,

01:36:29.029 --> 01:36:34.019
are we, a fungus, you know, are we
then all of those things at once?

01:36:35.339 --> 01:36:37.619
Because we are all those
things at once, right?

01:36:37.619 --> 01:36:39.959
We're mammals, we're, we have
fungus in our bodies, we're all

01:36:39.959 --> 01:36:42.169
composed of stardust, we're,
we're all composed of liquid.

01:36:44.429 --> 01:36:49.389
Once we start behaving that way, thinking
that way, feeling that way, whether

01:36:49.389 --> 01:36:52.519
we come in because we want a better
relationship with our horse, or better

01:36:52.519 --> 01:36:56.709
relationship with our spouse, or better
relationship with ourselves, or our dog,

01:36:59.189 --> 01:37:04.759
is it a question that as soon as we
take that step into this sort of greater

01:37:04.759 --> 01:37:09.474
empathy, Then what we're actually
doing is we're dancing with God.

01:37:11.194 --> 01:37:16.614
And as soon as we do that,
does, is that the great mystery?

01:37:16.614 --> 01:37:17.814
Is that when life becomes?

01:37:19.519 --> 01:37:25.849
magical, beautiful, wondrous, all the
things that we know life actually sort

01:37:25.849 --> 01:37:30.329
of is behind the veil of all the shit.

01:37:31.349 --> 01:37:33.969
And it's just like, we, we,
we, we're trying to touch it

01:37:33.989 --> 01:37:35.399
and back to the movie industry.

01:37:35.399 --> 01:37:36.209
It's so interesting.

01:37:36.589 --> 01:37:40.839
You know, the movie industry almost
exists to kind of try to help us connect

01:37:41.299 --> 01:37:44.549
with this world of the imagination and
this world of inspiration and this world

01:37:44.549 --> 01:37:49.019
of, but, you know, hierarchies and,
Other things can get in the way of that.

01:37:49.019 --> 01:37:52.899
But nonetheless, the aspiration is
there for a sort of altered state out

01:37:52.969 --> 01:37:57.869
of body experience of sort of having
the story take you sitting in the

01:37:57.869 --> 01:38:00.799
dark with the big screen in front of
you, whoosh, you're into the story,

01:38:03.009 --> 01:38:04.709
but it's

01:38:04.709 --> 01:38:05.459
Terry Kuebler: a

01:38:05.459 --> 01:38:06.419
Rupert Isaacson: bigger story, isn't it?

01:38:06.869 --> 01:38:14.429
Terry Kuebler: Yeah, the word, when you
say the word empathy, for me, it still

01:38:14.759 --> 01:38:21.809
comes from A mindset of, of division of,
of there's me and there's you, I can, I

01:38:21.809 --> 01:38:25.539
can feel you because I can relate to you.

01:38:25.549 --> 01:38:28.659
So there's, there's,
there's me and there's you.

01:38:28.959 --> 01:38:32.869
So you're, it's still
a, a separation mindset.

01:38:34.944 --> 01:38:40.174
And, and, and then we're talking
about the particle of, of when I

01:38:40.204 --> 01:38:46.714
can feel it, experience it, touch
it, measure it, then it's real.

01:38:47.324 --> 01:38:52.254
And that's a slow and dense
way of receiving information.

01:38:53.594 --> 01:38:58.954
If, when our beliefs change
as they are starting to change

01:38:58.964 --> 01:39:00.694
now, because science is.

01:39:01.254 --> 01:39:05.874
Going there and proving it of, of
that everything is made of energy.

01:39:07.104 --> 01:39:13.194
And so when you start thinking in a.

01:39:16.309 --> 01:39:25.179
Mindset of my body is an instrument
of receiving energetic information

01:39:25.889 --> 01:39:28.379
from fields of information.

01:39:30.439 --> 01:39:34.459
That's the levels of consciousness
that you're talking about

01:39:34.489 --> 01:39:38.219
of, of being able to know.

01:39:39.564 --> 01:39:45.254
What an animal is thinking or being
in an environment and like you talk

01:39:45.264 --> 01:39:49.284
about the hunters and gatherers where
they become part of the environment

01:39:49.314 --> 01:39:54.324
and they know where everything is, they
know what it's thinking, they become

01:39:54.324 --> 01:39:56.964
part of that field of information.

01:39:57.514 --> 01:40:01.704
That what stops us from being
able to do that is our beliefs.

01:40:04.249 --> 01:40:09.729
It is in any way different cultures
that have been brought up in that

01:40:09.729 --> 01:40:14.949
way, have that ability to do that
and they think we're abnormal.

01:40:14.959 --> 01:40:16.999
What do you mean you
can't talk to the stars.

01:40:17.259 --> 01:40:20.609
What do you mean you don't
hear the tree standing over

01:40:20.609 --> 01:40:22.639
there, and what it has to say.

01:40:23.499 --> 01:40:30.679
You know, it's just, there isn't, they
don't have to get through that belief

01:40:30.909 --> 01:40:37.349
of, well, I'm a human, and therefore I'm
special, and that tree is just a tree.

01:40:38.259 --> 01:40:38.639
It doesn't have to be.

01:40:38.639 --> 01:40:39.399
It's so interesting,

01:40:39.399 --> 01:40:41.699
Rupert Isaacson: yeah, because we
didn't start that way as humans.

01:40:42.504 --> 01:40:46.874
No, and we are connected, of
course, whether we want to believe

01:40:46.914 --> 01:40:52.194
it or not, I mean, here we are,
we're not anywhere else, you know.

01:40:52.194 --> 01:40:52.769
So

01:40:52.769 --> 01:40:57.304
Terry Kuebler: for me, there's different
fields of connection, there's your

01:40:57.304 --> 01:41:00.594
internal field, your external biofield,

01:41:00.594 --> 01:41:02.614
Rupert Isaacson: your,

01:41:02.694 --> 01:41:08.689
Terry Kuebler: your field that you
have with, you know, other people

01:41:08.689 --> 01:41:13.009
with, with, with those you're connected
to, you know, you have a group field.

01:41:13.829 --> 01:41:16.969
So we're just starting to get
interested in working with the

01:41:16.969 --> 01:41:18.589
horses and working with the animals.

01:41:18.599 --> 01:41:23.179
We're, we're getting interested
in what is this group field thing?

01:41:23.319 --> 01:41:28.259
You know, how to, how do birds
fly and not crash into each other?

01:41:28.269 --> 01:41:32.179
How do they know, you know, and,
and people are starting to have

01:41:32.179 --> 01:41:36.509
those experiences where they go,
wow, this is a real thing, a group.

01:41:36.509 --> 01:41:37.493
And I think, I

01:41:37.493 --> 01:41:39.708
Rupert Isaacson: think we have
that all the time, you know,

01:41:39.708 --> 01:41:40.692
even without noticing it.

01:41:40.692 --> 01:41:42.169
For example, I was at a,

01:41:45.329 --> 01:41:50.099
conference last year where somebody
was saying, Oh, and animals can do that

01:41:50.099 --> 01:41:53.599
thing like birds and murmurations or,
you know, horses all running together

01:41:53.599 --> 01:41:55.639
and not bashing into each other.

01:41:55.639 --> 01:41:57.829
And it's because they're
more connected and we're not.

01:41:57.849 --> 01:42:01.049
And I was thinking, is that, and then
they showed pictures of people in

01:42:01.049 --> 01:42:02.379
crowds sort of falling over each other.

01:42:02.379 --> 01:42:04.119
But I was like, Hmm, I don't know.

01:42:04.119 --> 01:42:07.989
I've seen horses bash into each
other and I've seen, you know, I'm

01:42:07.989 --> 01:42:09.459
sure birds do it sometimes too, but.

01:42:10.394 --> 01:42:15.374
Actually, humans do it all the time and
we do it under really extreme situations.

01:42:15.884 --> 01:42:18.384
So for example, I'm in
London as we do this thing.

01:42:18.394 --> 01:42:22.784
And I just came back here on the
subway from visiting my mother and in

01:42:22.784 --> 01:42:24.354
the ward where she's had her backup.

01:42:24.974 --> 01:42:28.394
And you know, you're dealing with
thousands of thousands of people

01:42:28.404 --> 01:42:32.324
in a busy station in London, all
moving through a narrow space.

01:42:33.284 --> 01:42:38.204
All a little bit in their stress brain
and really they ought to be bashing into

01:42:38.204 --> 01:42:42.074
each other all the time But no, no, no,
they're not they all Dancing elegantly

01:42:42.074 --> 01:42:45.494
in and around each other as if by water
half of them with their headphones on.

01:42:45.934 --> 01:42:50.584
Not even looking at each other and
absolutely aware and no one's being

01:42:50.584 --> 01:42:54.714
pushed off into the you know Train tracks
and no one, you know, it's actually a

01:42:54.714 --> 01:42:58.234
miracle and fights aren't breaking out
between people and people aren't tripping

01:42:58.234 --> 01:43:02.434
up and there's this old, you know, old
person who's vulnerable and everyone's

01:43:02.434 --> 01:43:04.224
just flowing around that person.

01:43:04.224 --> 01:43:08.194
And I was looking at it going, you
know, we're still, we are so connected

01:43:08.274 --> 01:43:10.764
and it's only when we bring thought.

01:43:11.569 --> 01:43:17.539
To our disconnection, weirdly, that we
disconnect and but as soon as we aren't

01:43:17.539 --> 01:43:22.426
thinking that we go straight back to
connection, but I think we just aren't

01:43:22.426 --> 01:43:23.684
Terry Kuebler: conscious of it.

01:43:23.684 --> 01:43:27.459
Especially Western, you know,
Western, it's really been taught.

01:43:27.459 --> 01:43:32.709
And that's, that's why it's so fascinating
to work with kids as far as intuition

01:43:32.749 --> 01:43:34.029
and stuff before it's been taught.

01:43:34.199 --> 01:43:39.649
Hold out of them, you know, we've
been taught we're, we're, you know,

01:43:39.649 --> 01:43:44.789
that's not real and we're separate and
take care of yourself and, and, you

01:43:44.789 --> 01:43:46.749
know, there's not enough to go around.

01:43:46.749 --> 01:43:48.519
So we have to compete for it.

01:43:48.559 --> 01:43:52.149
And all of those are learned behaviors.

01:43:52.789 --> 01:44:00.954
If, if, if we were able to keep kids
in their intuitive, creative, You

01:44:00.954 --> 01:44:06.314
know, mindset from early on what
a different planet it would be.

01:44:06.694 --> 01:44:09.244
Rupert Isaacson: Well, it's interesting
where, where the conversation

01:44:12.034 --> 01:44:19.604
evolved to in a little bit
further back was the problems

01:44:19.834 --> 01:44:21.364
with being with hierarchies.

01:44:22.754 --> 01:44:29.644
And hierarchies are scarcity, scarcity,
mentality, scarcity, mentality comes

01:44:29.644 --> 01:44:34.884
directly out of agriculture and all
of the warrior traditions, all of the

01:44:34.884 --> 01:44:38.674
breakdown in the equality between the
sexes, all of the separation from the

01:44:38.674 --> 01:44:40.944
divine epidemics, organized religion.

01:44:41.164 --> 01:44:44.164
It all starts about 10, 000
years ago with agriculture.

01:44:44.164 --> 01:44:47.474
Before that, you do not see
war depicted on cave paintings.

01:44:47.694 --> 01:44:51.054
You do not see human atrocities depicted.

01:44:51.194 --> 01:44:52.124
You do not have.

01:44:52.584 --> 01:44:55.274
lone warrior stories.

01:44:55.324 --> 01:44:56.454
No, no, no, no, no.

01:44:56.494 --> 01:44:58.104
Completely different way of thinking.

01:44:58.484 --> 01:45:02.274
And luckily those people are still
here alive and well on the planet.

01:45:02.314 --> 01:45:08.004
We've pushed them into very, very,
you know, difficult retreats.

01:45:08.004 --> 01:45:13.984
But my philosophy is I do feel, and
I think it's conversations like this,

01:45:14.494 --> 01:45:19.744
prove it, that we coming out of that
post agricultural, post modern, post

01:45:19.744 --> 01:45:23.254
industrial thing are returning to
the hunter gatherer sets of ethics.

01:45:24.114 --> 01:45:28.304
in terms of how we relate to each other,
how we relate to the planet, the idea

01:45:28.304 --> 01:45:32.014
of care, the idea of compassion, the
idea of love, religious frequency,

01:45:32.934 --> 01:45:39.704
stewardship, while at the same time now
having at our disposal these tools, these

01:45:39.704 --> 01:45:45.304
technological tools, which we've earned
through a rather unpleasant process.

01:45:46.174 --> 01:45:49.899
Can we turn those technological
tools To the right thing.

01:45:50.499 --> 01:45:55.059
Time will tell, but I do feel that
there's a, a will there, a growing will

01:45:55.089 --> 01:45:59.569
there that I think someone like you
having witnessed your relationship with

01:45:59.569 --> 01:46:03.299
animals and the way people change their
relationship with animals and therefore

01:46:03.769 --> 01:46:05.589
to themselves and therefore to the wider.

01:46:06.874 --> 01:46:08.984
Environment both on
this planet and beyond.

01:46:09.664 --> 01:46:13.444
I think that's to some degree proven.

01:46:13.444 --> 01:46:16.584
I think that your life is really
sort of a, an illustration of that.

01:46:16.594 --> 01:46:21.554
Would you not agree that I'm
very optimistic, but call

01:46:21.554 --> 01:46:23.614
me naive, but I do feel it.

01:46:24.204 --> 01:46:28.834
Terry Kuebler: It's very exciting
and fascinating to me of that.

01:46:28.874 --> 01:46:30.184
It is.

01:46:30.184 --> 01:46:35.504
It's, it's not, it's
not gaining new tools.

01:46:36.214 --> 01:46:40.394
we're reawakening to what's already there.

01:46:41.114 --> 01:46:45.584
And, and that's the same thing of,
of, of, like you said, that when you,

01:46:45.924 --> 01:46:50.724
when you raise your consciousness or
change your beliefs or, or start getting

01:46:50.734 --> 01:46:57.989
interested or curious about these
different ways of, Receiving information

01:46:57.989 --> 01:47:01.699
or of being the animals are right there.

01:47:01.729 --> 01:47:03.249
They're already there going.

01:47:03.459 --> 01:47:09.619
Oh, yay Oh, yay Hi, glad you came into
the room, you know, glad you glad you're

01:47:09.619 --> 01:47:16.219
here so so the whole message of and the
whales are waiting that that was what I

01:47:16.219 --> 01:47:20.389
burst out to To carrie lake when I met
her and the whales are waiting because

01:47:20.389 --> 01:47:26.019
that was the message that I was getting
Is they were waiting for us to get to

01:47:26.019 --> 01:47:32.934
a certain conscious level To be able
to even exchange information with us.

01:47:34.314 --> 01:47:40.984
So it's really encouraging that, that
obviously we have, you know, we're waking

01:47:40.994 --> 01:47:44.224
back up to remember a lot of these things.

01:47:44.929 --> 01:47:50.939
Indigenous old ways of being or,
or teachings that that are going

01:47:51.089 --> 01:47:53.109
there are now proven by science.

01:47:53.109 --> 01:47:56.429
And so now we're, we're, oh,
it's okay to believe that now

01:47:56.429 --> 01:47:59.019
because now it can be proven.

01:47:59.289 --> 01:48:03.354
Rupert Isaacson: Yeah, I think the, I
think the, the advances in quantum quantum

01:48:03.354 --> 01:48:05.929
entanglement are changing everything.

01:48:06.519 --> 01:48:10.379
And now, yes, okay, yes, we could
exist on multiple planes, yes, you

01:48:10.379 --> 01:48:13.409
could be connected with someone at a
vast distance, yes, yes, yes, because

01:48:13.729 --> 01:48:18.149
here we've, we're observing electrons
doing just that, being waves until

01:48:18.149 --> 01:48:20.619
we observe them and then they become
particles and then we look away and they

01:48:20.619 --> 01:48:22.299
become waves again, we're seeing this.

01:48:22.849 --> 01:48:24.109
I agree, and if you take it

01:48:24.119 --> 01:48:28.139
Terry Kuebler: back to our original
conversations of our original

01:48:28.139 --> 01:48:33.189
conversations of what's the biggest
shift that I, that I witness in

01:48:33.189 --> 01:48:38.419
people it's a change of focus for for
communication with their animals to

01:48:38.419 --> 01:48:40.919
work is it's a change of their focus.

01:48:41.979 --> 01:48:42.179
It's.

01:48:42.704 --> 01:48:48.294
The same on a planetary level of
just instead of a problem solving

01:48:48.294 --> 01:48:53.104
mentality of what's wrong with the
planet, what needs to be fixed, that we

01:48:53.104 --> 01:49:00.434
could change to a mindset of, of what
frequency would be most valuable here

01:49:00.434 --> 01:49:02.254
and things would change immediately.

01:49:03.024 --> 01:49:06.864
That's the message that I'm
getting with the whales of, of, of.

01:49:07.344 --> 01:49:10.674
If you think in terms of
vibration and frequency, it

01:49:10.674 --> 01:49:12.814
could happen instantaneously.

01:49:14.849 --> 01:49:15.029
Rupert Isaacson: That's

01:49:15.479 --> 01:49:16.189
Terry Kuebler: encouraging.

01:49:16.709 --> 01:49:17.649
Rupert Isaacson: It certainly is.

01:49:17.649 --> 01:49:20.939
And by the way, for those listening, this
is happening in the field of medicine.

01:49:21.489 --> 01:49:25.379
And I'm hoping to get a couple of people
on the show who are practicing doctors and

01:49:25.379 --> 01:49:31.199
researchers who are beginning to look at
how vibration of frequency can be used to

01:49:31.979 --> 01:49:36.399
do things very, very quickly that we don't
think the thought hitherto cannot be done.

01:49:36.619 --> 01:49:39.469
And of course, what is
that but shamanic healing?

01:49:40.074 --> 01:49:41.084
scientifically proven.

01:49:41.094 --> 01:49:42.174
It's so interesting, isn't it?

01:49:42.194 --> 01:49:43.714
It's just the original stuff.

01:49:43.744 --> 01:49:45.884
I guess the original stuff is
always going to be the best stuff.

01:49:46.434 --> 01:49:49.604
And yeah, sometimes people
say, why have animals at all?

01:49:49.614 --> 01:49:51.384
Well, they connect us, right?

01:49:51.554 --> 01:49:52.894
They connect us to this stuff.

01:49:54.034 --> 01:49:58.054
Terry Kuebler: Well, it's, and it's,
again, those levels of consciousness

01:49:58.054 --> 01:50:04.784
and awareness of they're the same as,
as above, so below, you know, it's

01:50:04.784 --> 01:50:09.424
like, so you say medicine is going here
for us to be able to heal ourselves.

01:50:10.044 --> 01:50:14.254
Well, and heal our relationships and
heal the planet and heal the, you know,

01:50:14.944 --> 01:50:21.334
to, to get to the place that you said of
eventually co creating with the divine.

01:50:23.224 --> 01:50:29.264
Rupert Isaacson: So I think we should all
listeners go on a retreat with Terry to

01:50:29.294 --> 01:50:31.114
co create this relationship with divine.

01:50:31.674 --> 01:50:32.694
Terry, how do we reach you?

01:50:32.694 --> 01:50:34.544
How do we find, how do we find you?

01:50:34.544 --> 01:50:35.644
How do we find out about you?

01:50:35.959 --> 01:50:38.889
Terry Kuebler: It would be
my website is Terry Keebler.

01:50:38.919 --> 01:50:39.299
com.

01:50:39.809 --> 01:50:41.279
Rupert Isaacson: Can you
spell that out for us, please?

01:50:42.089 --> 01:50:46.919
Terry Kuebler: T E R R Y K U E B L E R.

01:50:48.929 --> 01:50:51.179
Rupert Isaacson: And that's
why Terry with a y and Keebler

01:50:51.179 --> 01:50:53.899
with a UE terry keebler.com.

01:50:54.719 --> 01:50:55.109
Terry Kuebler: Yes.

01:50:55.889 --> 01:50:59.759
And I'm in the process of
developing like retreats and

01:50:59.759 --> 01:51:01.829
stuff now, so, so we'll be talking

01:51:02.549 --> 01:51:02.909
. 
Rupert Isaacson: Okay.

01:51:03.389 --> 01:51:03.509
Okay.

01:51:03.864 --> 01:51:05.009
I, I, I can't wait.

01:51:05.014 --> 01:51:05.639
And yes.

01:51:05.719 --> 01:51:08.699
Just for disclosure listeners, we'll
probably be doing them on the east side of

01:51:08.699 --> 01:51:11.989
the Atlantic, hopefully at a place called
Castle Lesley, which is amazing in, in

01:51:11.989 --> 01:51:14.079
Ireland, and to be determined stateside.

01:51:16.049 --> 01:51:22.059
But watch this space Terry it's It's,
it's been an amazing conversation.

01:51:22.109 --> 01:51:22.679
Can we do it?

01:51:22.679 --> 01:51:25.939
Can we revisit this and come back
and go a bit deeper next time?

01:51:27.029 --> 01:51:27.579
Sure.

01:51:27.799 --> 01:51:28.049
Terry Kuebler: Sure.

01:51:28.209 --> 01:51:28.329
I'd love to.

01:51:29.699 --> 01:51:34.989
Rupert Isaacson: Then I think with that,
we've given everyone something to chew on.

01:51:36.379 --> 01:51:39.439
Would you say, go connect with
your animals so that you can

01:51:39.439 --> 01:51:41.089
go connect with God, basically?

01:51:42.019 --> 01:51:42.749
Terry Kuebler: Basically.

01:51:42.749 --> 01:51:44.044
Basically.

01:51:45.084 --> 01:51:48.814
Connect with yourself so you can connect
with others so you can connect with

01:51:48.814 --> 01:51:54.964
the environment so you can connect
with It's a chain, not a hierarchy.

01:51:58.914 --> 01:52:00.624
Rupert Isaacson: Well, that's
the interesting thing, isn't it?

01:52:00.624 --> 01:52:02.274
Like the lion doesn't want
to be in charge of you.

01:52:02.314 --> 01:52:03.534
The horse doesn't want
to be in charge of you.

01:52:03.574 --> 01:52:05.784
They just want to, they just
want to coexist with you.

01:52:06.624 --> 01:52:08.274
in the right way sometimes

01:52:13.004 --> 01:52:13.614
All right.

01:52:13.734 --> 01:52:14.194
All right.

01:52:14.194 --> 01:52:15.974
Well, thank you so much for joining us.

01:52:15.974 --> 01:52:17.324
Well, we will continue this.

01:52:17.424 --> 01:52:18.694
I continue to go deeper.

01:52:18.794 --> 01:52:20.944
It's been a real it's been
a real pleasure terry.

01:52:21.654 --> 01:52:22.244
Terry Kuebler: Thank you.

01:52:22.694 --> 01:52:23.404
for having me

01:52:24.182 --> 01:52:25.292
Rupert Isaacson: Thank you for joining us.

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We hope you enjoyed today's podcast.

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Join our website, new trails
learning.com, to  check out our online

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courses and live workshops in Horse Boy
Method, movement Method, and Athena.

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These evidence-based programs have
helped children, veterans, and people

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dealing with trauma around the world.

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We also offer a horse training
program and self-care program

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for riders on long ride home.com.

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These include easy to do online
courses and tutorials that

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bring you and your horse joy.

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For an overview of all shows and
programs, go to rupert isaacson.com.

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See you on the next show.

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And please remember to
press, subscribe and share.