The Practitioner-Scholar: The PennCLO Podcast

What if uncertainty isn’t the problem—but the point?

In this episode of the PennCLO Podcast, Dr. Jennifer Neumaier sits down with Penn CLO doctoral alum Dr. Lucrecia Grandolini about her chapter on leading through uncertainty from the book Leaders as Architects: Designing Organizations for Connection and Resilience, co-edited by Dr. Sharon Ravitch (University of Pennsylvania Graduate School of Education) and Dr. Ragu Krishnamoorthy, Director of the Penn CLO program. 

Drawing on her global experience across financial services, consulting, and clinical psychology, Lucrecia challenges the traditional “plan–predict–control” model of leadership—and offers a compelling alternative.

Together, they unpack:
  • Why uncertainty is both deeply human—and deeply misunderstood
  • The hidden cost of control: how it erodes trust and psychological safety
  • The “living iceberg” metaphor—and what leaders miss beneath the surface
  • What uncertainty-friendly organizations actually look like in practice
  • Four essential leadership practices for thriving in complexity
This conversation is a powerful invitation to stop trying to eliminate uncertainty—and start designing for it.

Creators and Guests

Producer
Dr. Jennifer Neumaier, Ed.D., M.Ed., ACC
Guest
Dr. Lucrecia Grandolini
Producer
Dr. Raghu Krishnamoorthy

What is The Practitioner-Scholar: The PennCLO Podcast?

Welcome to "The Practitioner-Scholar: The PennCLO Podcast," the flagship production of the renowned Penn Chief Learning Officer Executive Doctoral Program at the University of Pennsylvania. Immerse yourself in a curated blend of scholarly insights and industry expertise, offering a profound exploration of organizational learning and leadership. Unveiling strategies and success indicators crucial in today's dynamic landscape, this podcast is a testament to the distinctive approach fostered by our program.

Join us on a transformative journey through the multifaceted world of leadership, where practitioner-scholar approaches shine as a beacon of excellence. As we spotlight luminaries within our esteemed student, faculty, and alumni circles, "The Practitioner-Scholar" podcast becomes a unique channel for intellectual engagement and actionable takeaways. For prospective students, seasoned executives, and dedicated scholar-practitioners alike, this platform is your exclusive access to the extraordinary content emanating from the heart of the PennCLO Executive Doctoral Program.

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To learn more about the Penn Chief Learning Officer, Doctor of Education (Ed.D.) program, visit the Penn GSE website.