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Welcome to Digication
Scholars Conversations.

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I'm your host, Jeff Yan.

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In this episode, you will hear part two
of my conversation with Rebecca Thomas,

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Director of the Pathways ePortfolio
Program and Adjunct Assistant Professor

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of the Electrical and Computer Engineering
Department at Bucknell University.

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More links and information about today's
conversation can be found on Digication's

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Twitter, Facebook, and Instagram.

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Full episodes of Digication Scholar
Conversations can be found on

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YouTube or your favorite podcast app.

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Now, you are, you know, again, you know,
the director for, of the, of the Pathways

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ePortfolio program, which is like you
said, a campus wide, um, initiative.

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Um, how, what are some, can you give us
some sort of insights maybe You know,

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anecdotes on some of the things that might
have either surprised you or impressed

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you on what students have been able
to do to, to, you know, include those

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aspects of life into their education.

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And it doesn't have to be about
engineering, because I know, but I

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know the majority of our students
are, you know, engineers in this

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case, um, you know, something that.

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Something that will give other
folks a little bit of a practical

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glimpse of, Oh, that's what you mean.

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Because to me, I think that there's,
you know, a lot of assumption that

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simply just goes, okay, great.

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Um, engineer, you know,
doing meaningful work.

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Maybe they're doing a better,
I don't know, solar panel.

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And that's it.

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Um, to me, it feels a lot
more nuanced than that.

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Yeah.

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Um, yeah.

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So we're still.

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Fairly early in, you know, getting,
getting students to do ePortfolios, um,

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and so I don't know if I have a lot of
specific examples, but, uh, the one, and

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the ones that we've been doing so far
are usually pretty course focused, right?

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That'll be part of You know, an instructor
decides to put them in the course, right?

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They're part of the grade, part
of a project, part of something.

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So, so sadly, right?

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That, that kind of confines what
you're expecting and, and what we

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get, but we're starting to see, right?

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The students pull in
other parts, um, right?

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And see more of, of who our students are.

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That's, uh, faculty who have used
portfolios have really enjoyed them

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because they're getting to see more
glimpses of, Of who their students

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are and what they're interested in,
but what they really want to do,

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which are things like we usually
don't know because we don't ask.

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And maybe we didn't even know to ask.

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Right.

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That's so interesting.

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I know that you were saying that, hey,
we're just starting and doing this

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is actually incredibly insightful.

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I, in my mind, because, um, there
is, it almost feels once you said

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it, that it should be obvious
when you work with students.

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It's great when you know who they
are, who they want to be and what,

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what do they value in their lives?

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What makes them happy and what
makes them, you know, feel,

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feel like, um, feel excited.

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But if you don't know that, and all
that you know is here's my questions,

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I want you to come with the answers.

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It really ignores the entire layer.

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So it's almost like, like what you're
saying, before we get to the point where

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you can see the results of what these
students are doing, we need them to

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have a go at showing their professors
who they are in an authentic way.

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So that the professors can then
say, Oh, knowing that, let's push

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you in this direction, right?

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But without that, it doesn't
It doesn't work, right?

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Because even if I were just to say, let's
say that I'm a professor in, you know, in,

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in, in, in, um, uh, chemical engineering.

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And I, I, I'm really, you know, I'm
expertise is in photophotic cells and

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creating, you know, next generation of,
you know, solar power, blah, blah, blah.

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Right.

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I can tell people.

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That, hey, this is it, you need to be
working on this because, you know, our

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world is, you know, getting too hot.

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We need to find new ways to create energy.

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Almost like if you just tell
them that, it doesn't count.

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Do you know what I mean?

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It's like, like you need to get
to, you need to learn what the

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students, who the students are first.

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So that has been kind of my
first ePortfolio, ePortfolio

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project in class has been.

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Um, I teach the first year design course
in electrical and computer engineering.

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Um, and this is the first course that
students take within the department.

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They take it the spring
semester of their freshman year.

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Um, and so I designed an e portfolio,
right, that gives them a little bit

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of a chance to explore the discipline
because a lot of Them to come in not

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really knowing what an electrical
engineer or a computer engineer does.

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Um, right.

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A lot of people don't know that.

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'cause I still get asked when I
say I'm an electrical engineer.

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If I can wire a house, and I
most certainly cannot do that.

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And electrical engineers are
doing all kinds of things that

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have nothing to do with wiring.

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But you're also not an electrician.

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Right, right.

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Right.

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But so it gives them a chance to explore,
you know, what are the different things?

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And electrical engineering
is hugely broad, right?

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There are the people that work on
power, like traditional power stations.

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Um, even You know, different
things with signals and RFID.

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Uh, I did very small things, right,
uh, uh, semiconductors and, you

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know, making, making devices out
of, out of semiconductors, right?

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So students get a chance to at least
dip their toe in this, um, but also in

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their ePortfolio they have to answer
questions like, what do you value, right?

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And we give a list.

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What are the top five things
in this that you value and why?

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What interests you?

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Like, what?

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What hobbies did you do, um, and, and
what have those taught you about yourself?

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Right?

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So they're learning at the same
time, what are the possibilities in

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this discipline that I've chosen?

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You know, who am I and, and how
did these things link together?

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Right?

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And it's, it's only one, one
ePortfolio assignment very early on,

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but I, you know, I think that kind
of sets them on the right track to.

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To think more in that way, um, and just
to be reflective in general, right?

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A huge part of ePortfolios are,
are learning how to reflect and,

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and learning, you know, how to, how
to apply that in different places.

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And that's one thing that we've seen
even early on is that when we ask

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students to reflect in their first year,
then they get to their second year and

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they're taking design courses or they're
even taking, you know, kind of a more

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technically focused required course.

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But we see them being more
reflective and transferring that,

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you know, to different courses and
to like different domains even.

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Um, yeah, so that's been really, really
cool to see and, and kind of surprising

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that it, it didn't take that much.

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It took like one, Intervention.

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An ePortfolio Intervention to do that.

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Yeah, I really feel like that these are
the, you know, I almost wanted to take

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your eight semester long, you know,
follow up, you know, course, like this

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idea and like go all the way down to
like middle school or something, you

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know, because like, imagine how, um, How
differently people will approach life, um,

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if they were exposed to things a little
earlier, because I think it's kind of

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like what you, I always have this vision,
uh, Rebecca, you know, when you were

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saying, well, it's just this one thing
in the beginning, I have them do, but to

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me, it's like, if you're in the ocean,
you're sailing this large ship and you

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like turn them, you know, one degree.

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One direction, but if you then run
four years of sailing this boat, you're

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going to be in a different continent,
you know, um, and so it's like, it's

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such a big, huge, you know, impact when
you can catch them at the right time.

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Don't you think?

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Yeah.

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Um, can you tell me a little bit about.

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I want to talk a little bit about
today's engineering students.

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Um, I, I think that in the last,
definitely in the last decade, but I

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think even especially perhaps because
of COVID, because of, you know, all of

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the different societal, um, norms being
changed and challenged, you know, in the

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last few years, um, they're There seems
to be a whole new set of students having

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maybe different value systems, comes to
facing different issues, um, and, and I've

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talked to a lot of people about that in
sort of the general student population,

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but I kind of kept wondering whether
some of those issues exist for, you know.

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Engineering students, or whether you see
any sort of trends, so you already had

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mentioned, you know, gender is something
that you're still fighting for, right?

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And we already talked about the, the
sort of nuance, you know, approach

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of like problem solving versus
let's talk about the problem first.

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Um, but are there other things too?

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I mean, I see a lot of issues,
you know, like mental health.

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I see a lot of, you know, um,
Issues with people thinking about

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affordability of higher education.

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Um, and probably, you know,
one that, that is popular these

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days is artificial intelligence.

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And I, I, I almost don't want to talk
about specifically like chat GPT or

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generative, you know, sort of stuff, but
more than further implications of where

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artificial intelligence may, may come in.

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Of course, some of your students I'm
assuming are studying that and maybe

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practicing, you know, you know, in that.

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Yeah.

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Um, so, yeah, one change I see just about
kind of their interest, I see a lot more

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students interested in, um, environmental
issues, right, and interested in, in

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doing things with renewable energy,
um, and doing different things that

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can, can help protect our planet.

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Uh, so there's, I think that's
one thing that, that is different

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about this generation of students.

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Um.

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Can I ask a really, really,
really simple question?

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Do you meet any students who don't believe
that we have an environmental issue today?

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I have not come across any, uh, you
know, mainly when I hear about it.

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But it exists, you know, there are pockets
of our population believes that, right.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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Um, right.

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But most of the time when I hear about
their, their interests in it, right,

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it's because I ask, like, you know,
why did, why did you choose this?

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Or what, you know, what are
your interests that overlap?

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Right?

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And I hear that a lot more.

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So I don't ask the question flat out.

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Yeah.

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Um, everyone's, you know, they, they're,
they're, they're more thoughtful

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than just, you know, do I believe it?

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Do I not?

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Of course I do.

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Um, yeah.

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Um, okay.

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And I want to, right.

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And, and a lot of them are a little
bit more aware, I think, of, you

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know, the, the issues that our
technology, right, that engineers

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have created, uh, are causing.

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So, so engineers have
been part of the problem.

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I believe that's a big part of the
problem, and now we need to really figure

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out how to be part of the solution.

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Is there a sense of, you know, like, I
know that when, um, when I talk to people,

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you know, if you, I mean, I think Greta
Thunberg is the, the, the, the real, you

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know, the person that really comes to mind
that, This is a person who is saying, you

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guys really screwed up this planet for
us, like literally just this, this last,

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you know, few decades, it wasn't that
screwed up before, like you really did it.

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You screwed it up for us.

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I'm going, we are going to have to fix it.

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Hopefully you can help fix it, but we
are going to really be the one who's

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going to face this and have to fix it.

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There's a sense of, um, both urgency,
but there's also a sense of, You

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know, like they are born with this
weight on their shoulders, you know,

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and for the generation that created
it, they didn't have that sense.

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They just wanted to do whatever they want.

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They may not know that
that's what they were doing.

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Or they may not be, uh, they may not
realize how badly it can be and how,

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how, how large the problem is going to
scale to, you know, like the butterfly

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effect, uh, the effect, you know?

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Yeah, that, I mean, that was
kind of the, the problem.

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Engineers were handed and, you
know, when, when engineering

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education was developed, it's right.

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How do we marry industry
with manufacturing?

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Like, how do we make more things?

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How do we make cheaper things?

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Engineers have been wildly
successful at doing this, right?

224
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But now we are at the point
where we have to ask, should we?

225
00:15:06,755 --> 00:15:07,045
Right?

226
00:15:07,425 --> 00:15:08,714
Should we keep doing this?

227
00:15:08,755 --> 00:15:14,895
And, and, you know, and how do
we address kind of the issues

228
00:15:14,905 --> 00:15:16,395
that have been created already?

229
00:15:17,104 --> 00:15:23,864
So do you see, um, students today
having been equipped now with the

230
00:15:23,864 --> 00:15:29,155
technical skills that they have and,
you know, these, you know, ideas

231
00:15:29,155 --> 00:15:32,515
of, you know, what's, what are the
big wicked problems in the world?

232
00:15:33,105 --> 00:15:37,234
Um, do you still see that, you
know, maybe some of them are?

233
00:15:37,745 --> 00:15:42,475
You know, certainly still interested
in going to get that job at Google

234
00:15:42,795 --> 00:15:46,564
versus people who are doing more
entrepreneurial stuff, or are they

235
00:15:46,564 --> 00:15:48,105
just looking for opportunities?

236
00:15:48,115 --> 00:15:50,894
Doesn't have to be entrepreneurship,
but it might be about joining

237
00:15:50,894 --> 00:15:55,135
organizations and companies that have a
different kind of mission and purpose.

238
00:15:55,685 --> 00:15:56,724
So where do you see that?

239
00:15:57,615 --> 00:16:02,485
So, although I do think where,
where students will go, right,

240
00:16:02,505 --> 00:16:04,555
is, is kind of up to the students.

241
00:16:04,595 --> 00:16:06,815
And, um, Right?

242
00:16:06,815 --> 00:16:12,085
That's part of my goal in
engineering education as well, is

243
00:16:12,105 --> 00:16:15,085
to give the students agency, right?

244
00:16:15,085 --> 00:16:20,145
And I don't expect that all students are
going to want to work on these really

245
00:16:20,325 --> 00:16:23,594
complex, societally relevant problems.

246
00:16:23,844 --> 00:16:24,654
Um, right?

247
00:16:24,674 --> 00:16:28,925
There are some that might work
at Google their whole lives and,

248
00:16:30,835 --> 00:16:31,915
you know, that's their choice.

249
00:16:31,915 --> 00:16:33,395
That's what they want to do.

250
00:16:34,730 --> 00:16:41,800
Um, but, yeah, I think, I, I do hope,
though, that being exposed to this, more

251
00:16:41,800 --> 00:16:46,390
students will be prepared to take on these
problems, because I think that's a big

252
00:16:46,390 --> 00:16:51,459
part of the issue is in the past, and,
you know, even kind of right now, a lot

253
00:16:51,459 --> 00:16:57,300
of students, right, who are just prepared
with a very technical focus, you know,

254
00:16:57,400 --> 00:17:03,030
don't have the kind of preparation they
need to, like, make solving these kind

255
00:17:03,030 --> 00:17:05,629
of problems even a possibility, right?

256
00:17:06,159 --> 00:17:08,180
That's not an accessible option to them.

257
00:17:08,190 --> 00:17:14,730
So, right, I, I think we're opening
up that door and, you know, I, I think

258
00:17:14,769 --> 00:17:20,240
though, based on what What the current
generation of students is concerned with

259
00:17:20,250 --> 00:17:24,160
that, yeah, we should, we should see more
of them kind of going down that path.

260
00:17:25,380 --> 00:17:28,610
But I do also think, don't
you think it would be fair?

261
00:17:29,220 --> 00:17:32,800
I mean, I feel like that we've beaten
up on Google a lot here, but, you

262
00:17:32,800 --> 00:17:37,875
know, don't you think it'd be fair to
say that, um, We also need students

263
00:17:37,875 --> 00:17:43,574
who will be working and running the
future of Googles and Facebooks, etc.

264
00:17:44,095 --> 00:17:48,485
But they would be the one who need
to inject that sense of urgency to

265
00:17:48,555 --> 00:17:54,724
privacy, respecting people's, you
know, sort of, uh, data and, and

266
00:17:54,725 --> 00:17:56,065
things of that nature too, right?

267
00:17:56,075 --> 00:17:59,065
We need, we need them at all
levels, really, don't we?

268
00:17:59,615 --> 00:18:00,085
Yeah.

269
00:18:01,875 --> 00:18:05,715
And, and that, you know, um, there's
nothing wrong really working at

270
00:18:05,725 --> 00:18:09,215
Google or whatnot, except that,
you know, like they could be on the

271
00:18:09,215 --> 00:18:11,035
team working on the right thing.

272
00:18:12,155 --> 00:18:12,504
Yeah.

273
00:18:12,754 --> 00:18:13,984
It feels like that that happens.

274
00:18:14,155 --> 00:18:22,210
I mean, I still remember when, um, the
person who, um, Pointed out what happened

275
00:18:22,210 --> 00:18:28,779
at Facebook with, um, with a study that
they had, um, on the impact of, you

276
00:18:28,779 --> 00:18:38,830
know, social media on especially, uh,
teenage, um, girls, um, and to that person

277
00:18:39,010 --> 00:18:43,025
worked at Facebook, that person Wanted.

278
00:18:43,035 --> 00:18:44,565
It was a woman, right?

279
00:18:44,595 --> 00:18:45,335
I forgot her name.

280
00:18:45,345 --> 00:18:46,575
Actually, I really shouldn't have.

281
00:18:46,575 --> 00:18:47,505
I should look this up.

282
00:18:47,505 --> 00:18:53,165
But, um, she worked at Facebook with
that being her intention, not the

283
00:18:53,165 --> 00:18:56,505
intention to be a whistleblower,
to, to solve this problem.

284
00:18:57,025 --> 00:18:59,494
And she was promised that
that's what they were doing.

285
00:19:00,254 --> 00:19:05,815
It was not until the fact that she
realized that they weren't being

286
00:19:06,205 --> 00:19:08,495
sincere in solving this problem.

287
00:19:08,495 --> 00:19:10,075
In fact, they were going to sort of just.

288
00:19:11,080 --> 00:19:16,610
Cover it up or, you know, knew it knew
the office, the reports existence,

289
00:19:16,610 --> 00:19:18,220
but then not do anything with it.

290
00:19:18,439 --> 00:19:21,629
That's when she went and
try to do the right thing.

291
00:19:24,355 --> 00:19:28,935
But that person had to have that,
this kind of mindset that you, you

292
00:19:28,935 --> 00:19:32,285
were talking about before trying to
figure out what's right and wrong.

293
00:19:32,285 --> 00:19:42,994
What are the ethical and, and, and, and,
you know, ways to, um, to be able to,

294
00:19:42,995 --> 00:19:49,025
um, to probably just to face themselves
and face the world, don't you think?Yeah.

295
00:19:49,575 --> 00:19:55,005
And I think for sure, if we've, if we've
got enough people with, you know, the.

296
00:19:55,845 --> 00:19:59,905
With different mindsets and the big
corporations, then we have the power to.

297
00:20:01,129 --> 00:20:06,280
Change the direction of large
corporations, too, right?

298
00:20:06,330 --> 00:20:13,489
And it could be that I mean to me it's
sad that in the last You know, it's sad

299
00:20:13,489 --> 00:20:18,209
that there are industries like, you know,
namely like things like oil and gas that

300
00:20:18,620 --> 00:20:23,960
that found Something that is worth, you
know, that is essentially, you know, worth

301
00:20:23,960 --> 00:20:29,160
a lot of money, very, very valuable, but
happens to also destroy our environment.

302
00:20:29,900 --> 00:20:36,220
And then, you know, we have technology
companies that have also then found

303
00:20:36,470 --> 00:20:38,570
this thing that's very valuable.

304
00:20:39,065 --> 00:20:42,875
And that is people's data, people's
profile, people's preferences, but then

305
00:20:42,875 --> 00:20:46,095
it destroys people's privacy, right?

306
00:20:46,385 --> 00:20:51,445
And, you know, they have to resolve
to tricking them into, you know,

307
00:20:51,455 --> 00:20:55,984
giving up their data and privacy
and making money off of that, right?

308
00:20:57,830 --> 00:21:01,570
It almost feels like that the next
generation of innovation could very

309
00:21:01,570 --> 00:21:05,110
well be, Hey, look, this stuff is
extremely valuable and it doesn't

310
00:21:05,110 --> 00:21:07,459
destroy either people or the environment.

311
00:21:08,959 --> 00:21:09,299
Right?

312
00:21:09,350 --> 00:21:14,330
I mean, that probably just wasn't
a consideration to be really frank.

313
00:21:14,389 --> 00:21:18,359
I think that I don't, I genuinely
don't believe that people in the

314
00:21:18,359 --> 00:21:22,430
beginning Well, I mean, I'm being
naive, but I don't believe that they

315
00:21:22,430 --> 00:21:29,030
initially set out to destroy and
benefit themselves at the same time.

316
00:21:29,459 --> 00:21:31,059
I don't think that they
could even plan it.

317
00:21:31,070 --> 00:21:35,050
I think they just, you know, come
across it and just rode the wave, right?

318
00:21:35,550 --> 00:21:36,879
Until it became too late.

319
00:21:39,119 --> 00:21:41,930
Well, maybe they didn't even know
the effects, but right, they didn't.

320
00:21:43,730 --> 00:21:47,880
Stop to consider the should,
should we do things, right?

321
00:21:48,070 --> 00:21:52,879
I'm just like, well, we are on the
cusp of that a little bit now with AI.

322
00:21:52,889 --> 00:21:53,570
Don't you think?

323
00:21:53,620 --> 00:21:54,020
Yeah.

324
00:21:54,419 --> 00:21:55,870
Yeah, sure.

325
00:21:55,870 --> 00:22:01,139
I mean, AI has come a long
way, like really quickly.

326
00:22:01,139 --> 00:22:05,049
And it, it's a lot to figure out.

327
00:22:05,719 --> 00:22:08,790
It's kind of terrifying,
but, uh, but there's.

328
00:22:10,425 --> 00:22:17,095
A lot of opportunity there too, and
figuring out the, the boundaries of

329
00:22:17,095 --> 00:22:23,095
it and you know, what, what should
and shouldn't be done as a big

330
00:22:23,165 --> 00:22:28,295
complicated issue that has to be looked
at from a lot of different angles.

331
00:22:28,684 --> 00:22:28,954
Yeah.

332
00:22:29,145 --> 00:22:33,605
Not just the technology one,
which says we know how to do this.

333
00:22:34,215 --> 00:22:34,465
Right.

334
00:22:34,915 --> 00:22:35,225
Yeah.

335
00:22:35,715 --> 00:22:41,770
My hope, I'll tell you, my hope is
it's Having, having spoken to a lot

336
00:22:41,770 --> 00:22:47,830
of, you know, AI, um, engineers who
actually have many of them say that,

337
00:22:47,899 --> 00:22:51,369
you know what, you know, we made a lot
of this stuff work, but we actually

338
00:22:51,369 --> 00:22:54,629
don't know how the machine is making it
work because it's too complicated for

339
00:22:54,629 --> 00:23:01,100
them to even understand at this point,
but what they, um, what seems to be.

340
00:23:01,620 --> 00:23:08,030
My hope, the saving grace here
is that, um, there is still time.

341
00:23:08,030 --> 00:23:16,499
There's still a chance for not just the
engineers, but for all humans who interact

342
00:23:16,500 --> 00:23:19,480
with the machines, because the machines
are not learning just from the engine.

343
00:23:19,480 --> 00:23:21,990
In fact, they can't learn just from
the engineer because they need a

344
00:23:22,179 --> 00:23:23,929
vast amount of data to learn from.

345
00:23:24,419 --> 00:23:27,709
So they're really learning
from society, but.

346
00:23:28,545 --> 00:23:33,875
It's really from society that gives them
ideas of what ethics look like, what

347
00:23:34,115 --> 00:23:39,935
values, you know, we, we, what, what
are the human values that make, make

348
00:23:39,935 --> 00:23:46,985
the species special, you know, um, and
what happiness look like and, and so on.

349
00:23:47,075 --> 00:23:47,534
Yeah.

350
00:23:48,075 --> 00:23:48,264
Yeah.

351
00:23:48,284 --> 00:23:51,855
But a big part of the risk is,
does the data represent everybody?

352
00:23:52,365 --> 00:23:53,225
Yeah, right now, probably.

353
00:23:53,645 --> 00:23:56,175
Well, that's, that's one of
the problems too, is that.

354
00:23:56,495 --> 00:24:02,745
We have a disproportionate amount of data
that was generated in recent years, um,

355
00:24:03,125 --> 00:24:05,865
to available data in the world, right?

356
00:24:06,205 --> 00:24:08,575
Like, we don't have nearly as much data.

357
00:24:08,654 --> 00:24:13,545
I mean, I, I think that someone said
that, you know, YouTube alone generates

358
00:24:13,545 --> 00:24:21,505
by megabytes more data in any one day than
probably the last century combined, right?

359
00:24:21,915 --> 00:24:24,705
And that's probably, I don't know
whether that's an exaggeration, but

360
00:24:24,705 --> 00:24:26,795
that wouldn't surprise me at all, right?

361
00:24:27,635 --> 00:24:32,905
Um, first it was video versus, you know,
but regardless, the point really is that

362
00:24:33,495 --> 00:24:38,314
there is a lot more data being generated
like disproportionately every minute.

363
00:24:38,660 --> 00:24:44,980
You know, now than before, so, you
know, like, um, there's got to be

364
00:24:44,990 --> 00:24:50,080
some kind of bias built into that,
um, for, for AI to learn from, but,

365
00:24:50,100 --> 00:24:57,400
but, but exactly to what I'm hoping
for is, you know, it's engineers

366
00:24:58,010 --> 00:25:01,210
and students, because it's not all
engineering students at Bucknell, right?

367
00:25:01,380 --> 00:25:05,080
But all students from places like
Bucknell, whether you take on an

368
00:25:05,090 --> 00:25:09,179
engineering position or, you know,
something else, are the ones.

369
00:25:10,810 --> 00:25:17,120
Who will either in the side of the
creation of these new technologies

370
00:25:17,120 --> 00:25:23,200
and machines and, and, and, and,
and intelligence, um, or they are in

371
00:25:23,210 --> 00:25:30,559
the side of just being a, you know,
a responsible part of the community

372
00:25:30,559 --> 00:25:34,380
and society, a member of that to.

373
00:25:34,980 --> 00:25:43,830
Behave and, and, um, contribute to
and to teach, you know, ethically and,

374
00:25:43,870 --> 00:25:48,200
and, and with, with the understanding
of these kind of, you know, um, uh,

375
00:25:48,209 --> 00:25:54,179
uh, these, um, uh, current issues that
allows for, um, technology, whether

376
00:25:54,179 --> 00:26:00,679
it be AI powered or not to, to have
a bias more towards the side that,

377
00:26:01,020 --> 00:26:03,110
that won't destroy us in the future.

378
00:26:05,320 --> 00:26:05,740
Yeah.

379
00:26:08,149 --> 00:26:12,110
Um, well, do you have anything
that you want to say to wrap up?

380
00:26:12,139 --> 00:26:15,860
I think, um, thank you so much for
spending so much time with me so far.

381
00:26:17,309 --> 00:26:17,850
I don't know.

382
00:26:17,909 --> 00:26:22,209
We've, we've went a long ways,
but yeah, I'm, I'm really excited

383
00:26:22,210 --> 00:26:26,929
about like ePortfolios and now
integrating those with STEM can.

384
00:26:28,260 --> 00:26:35,580
Help our students narrate, you know,
their, their paths and, and think about

385
00:26:35,580 --> 00:26:41,020
what they want to do and maybe, you
know, shift, shift the trajectory of

386
00:26:41,020 --> 00:26:44,950
where we're going and, and make it so
that yes, they don't destroy us all.

387
00:26:46,510 --> 00:26:49,369
I know that you're going to
be too polite to plug, but I'm

388
00:26:49,370 --> 00:26:51,100
going to make a plug for you.

389
00:26:51,550 --> 00:26:51,590
Okay.

390
00:26:51,820 --> 00:26:52,720
And for Bucknell.

391
00:26:52,720 --> 00:26:53,500
I think for.

392
00:26:53,700 --> 00:26:59,300
All the institutions, all the people
who are in power in their respective

393
00:26:59,320 --> 00:27:04,340
institutions who previously had this
idea that STEM students aren't built

394
00:27:04,350 --> 00:27:08,630
to do portfolios because they are,
you know, we, you can't reach to that.

395
00:27:08,639 --> 00:27:09,560
You can't reach them.

396
00:27:09,560 --> 00:27:10,340
They are doing this.

397
00:27:10,735 --> 00:27:14,514
You know, sort of, you know,
your, your own idea of what a

398
00:27:14,514 --> 00:27:15,885
STEM education may look like.

399
00:27:15,915 --> 00:27:18,925
I think you, after this conversation,
hopefully you can think again.

400
00:27:19,215 --> 00:27:22,534
I think you should go and look
at what Bucknell has done.

401
00:27:22,625 --> 00:27:27,254
Reach out to, um, uh, Rebecca and
maybe her colleagues that will be

402
00:27:27,255 --> 00:27:32,675
featuring many of them, um, to, to try
to understand and keep an open mind to

403
00:27:32,675 --> 00:27:38,750
understand that, um, You know, um, uh,
there's a lot to be learned from the

404
00:27:38,750 --> 00:27:43,870
STEM fields and they also are taking
a lot of what you take for granted of

405
00:27:43,899 --> 00:27:47,870
your students, you know, in the liberal
arts or in the humanities, et cetera.

406
00:27:48,170 --> 00:27:51,769
And there's actually a lot more
similarities than there are differences.

407
00:27:51,819 --> 00:27:54,170
And in fact, um, don't discount them.

408
00:27:54,190 --> 00:27:58,580
And if you are in a institution where
your engineering program is not.

409
00:27:59,150 --> 00:28:02,409
Um, currently practicing these
things, really think twice about it.

410
00:28:02,449 --> 00:28:06,301
I think that that could have tremendous
impact to society and the world.

411
00:28:06,301 --> 00:28:07,069
How's that?

412
00:28:08,550 --> 00:28:09,199
I agree.

413
00:28:09,490 --> 00:28:09,969
That sounds great.

414
00:28:11,429 --> 00:28:15,300
All right, Rebecca, um, it
is lovely to chat with you.

415
00:28:15,310 --> 00:28:20,030
Thanks for spending the time with
me again and, uh, yeah, and, uh,

416
00:28:20,080 --> 00:28:21,560
let's, uh, let's talk again soon.

417
00:28:21,560 --> 00:28:21,930
Okay.

418
00:28:22,405 --> 00:28:22,935
Sounds great.

419
00:28:23,285 --> 00:28:23,735
All right.

420
00:28:23,745 --> 00:28:24,335
Bye.

421
00:28:24,395 --> 00:28:25,015
Take care.

422
00:28:25,375 --> 00:28:25,695
Bye.