WEBVTT NOTE This file was generated by Descript 00:00:00.789 --> 00:00:06.320 Welcome to the Soul Touched by Dogs Podcast, the show for dog lovers who 00:00:06.340 --> 00:00:12.000 see dogs not as toys or tools, but wise souls worth our respect and care. 00:00:12.580 --> 00:00:14.559 I'm an Herrmann, and I'm your host. 00:00:15.320 --> 00:00:20.560 I talk to poor some humans, people who do great work for dogs and their people. 00:00:21.099 --> 00:00:23.360 So come and join us for today's conversation. 00:00:25.181 --> 00:00:27.061 Anke: Hello and welcome, Peggy. 00:00:27.311 --> 00:00:28.951 I'm super excited to have you here. 00:00:29.761 --> 00:00:30.621 Well, thank you so much. 00:00:30.621 --> 00:00:32.191 I'm super excited to be here. 00:00:32.901 --> 00:00:36.561 And we're just saying we need to give a shout out to Kathy for the introduction. 00:00:37.201 --> 00:00:39.031 So I'm pretty sure she'll be listening. 00:00:39.301 --> 00:00:44.551 So before we dive into our very juicy topic, um, let people know where you're 00:00:44.551 --> 00:00:46.941 based and what's your business with dogs? 00:00:47.721 --> 00:00:49.081 Peggy: Oh, well, thank you for asking. 00:00:49.101 --> 00:00:51.471 Um, I am actually based in two places. 00:00:51.481 --> 00:00:56.661 So I'm currently in Virginia, um, but I also have a home in Florida and 00:00:56.661 --> 00:00:58.831 that's where my law office is located. 00:00:58.841 --> 00:01:03.211 So I bounce back and forth between, uh, the two states and, um, 00:01:03.461 --> 00:01:09.011 meanwhile, my eight dogs are living in Virginia along with my cat and 00:01:09.011 --> 00:01:11.091 my four horses and my husband. 00:01:11.451 --> 00:01:14.391 So In that order, right? 00:01:15.071 --> 00:01:17.136 Right, exactly. 00:01:18.746 --> 00:01:20.506 Always been a huge pet lover. 00:01:20.536 --> 00:01:24.646 Um, I think I was not even a year old when I asked for my first horse, 00:01:24.966 --> 00:01:29.116 but, um, didn't get horses until I was 10, but I've always been 00:01:29.116 --> 00:01:33.566 surrounded by dogs and cats and just a huge animal lover from the get go. 00:01:34.086 --> 00:01:34.746 Anke: Oh, I love that. 00:01:34.886 --> 00:01:35.396 I love that. 00:01:35.706 --> 00:01:37.716 So now I always love it. 00:01:38.046 --> 00:01:42.396 Specifically when passions merge, right? 00:01:42.686 --> 00:01:46.566 So because that sounds to me like, correct me if I'm wrong, but it 00:01:46.566 --> 00:01:52.376 feels to me that's what you did when you start talking about pet trusts. 00:01:53.326 --> 00:01:54.116 Peggy: Absolutely. 00:01:54.126 --> 00:02:00.276 So I had this desire, as a lot of people do, to write a book, and so I didn't know 00:02:00.276 --> 00:02:04.986 what I was going to write on, and I had been practicing law in the areas of Wills 00:02:04.986 --> 00:02:09.796 Trust and Estates for a long time, and I was brainstorming with a friend, and he 00:02:09.796 --> 00:02:14.516 said, well, you should write about pet trust, because that's something that you 00:02:14.516 --> 00:02:17.746 love, and it was exactly the right advice. 00:02:17.746 --> 00:02:23.836 And And so I wrote a book about planning for your pets, making sure that our pets 00:02:23.846 --> 00:02:29.736 have a safe and forever home in the event that something happens to us, either 00:02:29.746 --> 00:02:32.336 we pass away or we become disabled. 00:02:32.896 --> 00:02:36.106 I think the mistake we make as pet owners is we always think that 00:02:36.106 --> 00:02:37.611 we're going to outlive our pets. 00:02:38.211 --> 00:02:42.961 And, um, that's not always true, and especially if you're a pet lover. 00:02:43.301 --> 00:02:48.791 Um, we tend to get more pets as the ones we lose pass away. 00:02:49.151 --> 00:02:54.111 Um, we tend to replenish that because we have that hole in our heart that can only 00:02:54.111 --> 00:02:56.391 be filled by the love of another dog. 00:02:57.486 --> 00:02:59.336 Anke: So true, isn't that so true? 00:02:59.686 --> 00:03:03.746 And I mean I've I've certainly had that that sense. 00:03:03.756 --> 00:03:05.866 It's like well, I don't really care if I die. 00:03:05.906 --> 00:03:08.526 That's all right, you know It's just like oh my god, what 00:03:08.526 --> 00:03:09.956 happens to the dogs, right? 00:03:10.286 --> 00:03:12.916 And uh, yeah funny actually a friend of mine around the corner 00:03:12.956 --> 00:03:17.546 She's got six dogs And then she'll sometimes look after others. 00:03:17.556 --> 00:03:19.646 So there, but there's like, yeah, one just passed. 00:03:19.666 --> 00:03:22.606 And so there's this, well, we're not going to get any more dogs. 00:03:22.646 --> 00:03:27.366 Well, unless there's somebody like, unless there's one in real need, you know, so 00:03:27.366 --> 00:03:31.476 I was like, yeah, I wouldn't put my hand anywhere to, you know, so there's a good 00:03:31.476 --> 00:03:33.116 chance that she'll have another dog. 00:03:33.116 --> 00:03:34.506 So that's, yeah. 00:03:34.576 --> 00:03:39.296 And I think there'll always be one that looks at you, you know, so it 00:03:39.296 --> 00:03:45.991 does make sense, but can you Like what it means to have a pet trust. 00:03:46.371 --> 00:03:47.551 Peggy: Sure, absolutely. 00:03:47.561 --> 00:03:52.171 So people are used to maybe thinking about trust for themselves. 00:03:52.551 --> 00:03:57.351 For their children, for people who might have special needs, but 00:03:57.361 --> 00:03:59.091 we tend to forget about our pets. 00:03:59.391 --> 00:04:05.021 And we have this idea that if something happens to us that just miraculously 00:04:05.021 --> 00:04:09.071 our family or our friends are going to step forward and volunteer 00:04:09.071 --> 00:04:13.381 to take on this responsibility that we made a commitment to. 00:04:14.201 --> 00:04:19.201 And yet we know that that's not really true because Hundreds of, literally 00:04:19.251 --> 00:04:24.221 thousands of animals end up euthanized in animal shelters annually because 00:04:24.221 --> 00:04:28.261 their pet parents didn't have a plan for what was going to happen to them. 00:04:28.751 --> 00:04:31.921 So, I started thinking about this topic in depth. 00:04:32.341 --> 00:04:39.061 And in the United States, all 50 states and the District of Columbia have 00:04:39.221 --> 00:04:44.021 statutes that permit the creation of a pet for the, I mean, the creation 00:04:44.021 --> 00:04:47.921 of a trust for the benefit of a pet where the pet is the beneficiary. 00:04:49.121 --> 00:04:56.711 Historically, Um, you couldn't have a non human as the beneficiary of a trust, 00:04:57.091 --> 00:05:01.421 but with the change in the laws, um, that really opened the door for people 00:05:01.421 --> 00:05:04.101 to be able to do planning for their pets. 00:05:04.471 --> 00:05:08.011 And the thing that I always talk to people about is, these are the 00:05:08.021 --> 00:05:12.541 really important things, is figure out who you trust to take care of 00:05:12.541 --> 00:05:14.691 your pets on a short term basis. 00:05:15.361 --> 00:05:20.421 And then figure out who you trust to take care of your pets on a long term basis. 00:05:20.761 --> 00:05:24.021 And it might be the same people, but I want you, I want people to 00:05:24.021 --> 00:05:28.201 think through both of those, because it might not be the same people. 00:05:28.561 --> 00:05:32.901 And we want to make sure that if the people we've chosen are either unable 00:05:32.911 --> 00:05:38.266 or unwilling to serve at that time, that we have some alternate sources. 00:05:38.276 --> 00:05:41.386 So I like to go three deep if we can. 00:05:41.826 --> 00:05:45.706 And, um, sometimes people aren't enough and we have to pick 00:05:45.746 --> 00:05:48.676 organizations as our final choice. 00:05:49.826 --> 00:05:51.796 So that's really where we get started Anke. 00:05:52.576 --> 00:05:54.586 Anke: Oh, that's that makes so much sense. 00:05:54.826 --> 00:05:59.976 Now the interesting piece is I, I heard head trust and my first thing was my, 00:06:00.026 --> 00:06:04.556 my first, my, my mind went like, okay, so you basically save up money for that. 00:06:05.326 --> 00:06:09.686 Is money a part of it or, or, but not the primary part is from 00:06:09.686 --> 00:06:10.866 what I understand you just said. 00:06:11.356 --> 00:06:11.676 So, 00:06:11.716 --> 00:06:12.346 Peggy: you're right. 00:06:12.376 --> 00:06:16.816 I mean, it is definitely part of it because if somebody left you their four 00:06:16.816 --> 00:06:22.456 dogs, um, it might be nice if they also left you some money for their care. 00:06:22.866 --> 00:06:28.756 So, we all know how much it costs to take care of our animals, and that's 00:06:28.756 --> 00:06:32.786 not necessarily a responsibility we would want to put on somebody else 00:06:33.086 --> 00:06:37.266 without providing some assistance in the form of financial assistance. 00:06:38.256 --> 00:06:42.126 So thinking about how much money you want to leave for the benefit of your 00:06:42.136 --> 00:06:44.766 pets is also really, really important. 00:06:45.216 --> 00:06:50.866 And I think that traditionally people underfund, um, how much 00:06:50.866 --> 00:06:52.636 they should leave for their pets. 00:06:52.976 --> 00:06:56.216 And what I try to get people to think about is, how much do you 00:06:56.226 --> 00:06:59.136 spend to take care of your pets now? 00:06:59.681 --> 00:07:06.021 Figure that out to be an annual number per animal or per dog and then multiply 00:07:06.031 --> 00:07:09.981 that by an extraordinarily long lifetime. 00:07:10.431 --> 00:07:14.351 So if you think your dog is going to live for 15 years, I say assume 00:07:14.351 --> 00:07:15.851 they're going to live to be 20. 00:07:16.251 --> 00:07:22.501 Um, so that you have that cushion built in and that way if there's an emergency 00:07:22.521 --> 00:07:28.151 or if there's a surgery that we didn't count on, we've got those extra funds. 00:07:28.531 --> 00:07:33.361 And I'd always rather see somebody overfund, so leave too much 00:07:33.391 --> 00:07:35.991 money, than not enough money. 00:07:36.351 --> 00:07:40.791 And then I like to encourage people to leave whatever's left, after the 00:07:40.791 --> 00:07:45.281 pets have been properly cared for, to their favorite animal charity. 00:07:45.656 --> 00:07:47.276 Hmm, yeah, that makes, 00:07:47.676 --> 00:07:48.636 Anke: that makes so much sense. 00:07:48.856 --> 00:07:54.596 Now I'm also curious about, like, how do you go about or what do 00:07:54.616 --> 00:07:58.476 you take into consideration when you choose the people, right? 00:07:58.736 --> 00:08:02.036 So I'm now thinking like, okay, the, you know, because you say 00:08:02.036 --> 00:08:03.516 like people you trust, right? 00:08:03.546 --> 00:08:06.936 That's where for me personally, it gets a little difficult, right? 00:08:07.206 --> 00:08:09.576 Because there's lots of people that I really like and I wouldn't 00:08:09.646 --> 00:08:10.596 trust with my dogs, right? 00:08:11.111 --> 00:08:17.501 So, my parents, who I would fully trust with my dogs, yeah, but You know, 00:08:17.521 --> 00:08:22.291 they're at an age and, you know, so where it's like I can't trust that they'll 00:08:22.301 --> 00:08:24.101 be there when, you know, whatever. 00:08:24.111 --> 00:08:30.831 So, so also, like, do you have, like, what does the conversation need to look like? 00:08:30.851 --> 00:08:34.631 And, you know, with, and what's the difference between the short 00:08:34.631 --> 00:08:35.871 term and the long term care? 00:08:37.296 --> 00:08:40.936 Peggy: So, um, that, those are really good questions because, number one, 00:08:40.936 --> 00:08:44.136 we should be having conversations with the people that we choose. 00:08:44.136 --> 00:08:48.896 We don't want it to be a surprise, like you get a phone call and go, oh, hi, 00:08:48.896 --> 00:08:54.196 you're now going to be responsible for all of Anke's dogs, and congratulations. 00:08:54.466 --> 00:08:58.106 Um, Yeah, we want to have that conversation. 00:08:58.116 --> 00:09:02.056 So sometimes short term just means like, okay, we find out that 00:09:02.056 --> 00:09:05.036 something's happened to you and now we've got to make some immediate 00:09:05.036 --> 00:09:06.836 provisions to take care of the dogs. 00:09:07.186 --> 00:09:10.666 That could be in a boarding facility, that could be with a pet sitter that 00:09:10.666 --> 00:09:15.196 you trust that could come to your house for a period of time, but maybe those 00:09:15.206 --> 00:09:19.596 aren't the situations where you would want your dogs to reside long term. 00:09:19.876 --> 00:09:23.016 So let's say your parents don't live near you and we needed to 00:09:23.016 --> 00:09:24.856 get those animals transported. 00:09:25.206 --> 00:09:27.716 to wherever it is that your parents live. 00:09:28.526 --> 00:09:33.436 So when you're thinking about a trust, a trust is a legal construct, really. 00:09:34.206 --> 00:09:39.466 So it's a written document that essentially has a couple of parties. 00:09:39.476 --> 00:09:43.686 It has you as the person who creates the trust, the trustmaker. 00:09:44.006 --> 00:09:49.916 It has the trustees, and that would be you during your lifetime, but others in 00:09:49.916 --> 00:09:52.266 the event of your disability or death. 00:09:52.676 --> 00:09:56.446 And then for your pets, you've got the short term and the long term 00:09:56.476 --> 00:10:01.376 pet caregivers, and then you've got your remainder beneficiaries. 00:10:01.786 --> 00:10:07.756 But the trustees are the people that are really doing the oversight for what's 00:10:07.756 --> 00:10:14.036 going on month to month, year to year, with the animals and with the money. 00:10:14.446 --> 00:10:18.976 So sometimes people want to name the same people as the trustees and the 00:10:18.986 --> 00:10:24.736 pet caregivers, and that's fine if you really, really trust those people, but 00:10:24.756 --> 00:10:29.036 you've got the same person providing care who's overseeing the money and 00:10:29.046 --> 00:10:31.116 maybe that's not the best decision. 00:10:31.971 --> 00:10:34.521 Anke: I was just thinking about that, like, that's all, like, what if 00:10:34.521 --> 00:10:36.151 somebody goes, Oh yeah, I'll do it. 00:10:36.151 --> 00:10:38.881 And then they take the money, go on a holiday and, and, you 00:10:38.881 --> 00:10:40.931 know, don't care for the dogs. 00:10:40.931 --> 00:10:41.221 Right. 00:10:41.571 --> 00:10:45.231 So they, that's why, why there is that other, like, in theory, that 00:10:45.241 --> 00:10:49.241 other person in between who just keeps an eye on making sure that it's 00:10:49.281 --> 00:10:52.201 actually being acted on as planned. 00:10:53.421 --> 00:10:57.391 Peggy: So, it just builds in an extra layer of protection. 00:10:57.761 --> 00:11:02.401 Um, an example I always give is the one where, let's say that I wanted 00:11:02.401 --> 00:11:06.861 to leave all of my dogs to my sister, Anne, along with the sum of money. 00:11:06.891 --> 00:11:11.451 If I just make that as an outright distribution, okay, Anne, here's my 00:11:11.451 --> 00:11:13.381 dogs, here's my, here's the money. 00:11:13.631 --> 00:11:16.191 She could do just exactly as you suggested. 00:11:16.421 --> 00:11:19.891 She could say, thank you for the money, drop the dogs off at the 00:11:19.891 --> 00:11:23.271 nearest shelter, and, you know, be done with the whole affair. 00:11:23.751 --> 00:11:28.821 Um, but, if I want to make sure that the money's being used for their 00:11:28.831 --> 00:11:33.311 proper care, I probably shouldn't put her in charge of the money. 00:11:33.541 --> 00:11:40.741 Or, I should add a second person, um, as a co trustee to help facilitate that. 00:11:42.496 --> 00:11:47.776 Anke: I mean, in your experience, like, do the, like, do people 00:11:47.826 --> 00:11:49.586 honor those, those agreements? 00:11:49.636 --> 00:11:53.481 Is that, like You know, I'm just over like a little bit like, oh god 00:11:53.481 --> 00:11:57.121 in Spain, I wouldn't know whether somebody even like, yeah, whatever 00:11:57.121 --> 00:11:59.131 piece of paper will do, you know. 00:12:00.611 --> 00:12:06.221 Peggy: So, um, I think depending on state law, um, or the law of your jurisdiction, 00:12:06.231 --> 00:12:10.791 whether or not pet trusts are recognized, there are lots of opportunities to 00:12:10.791 --> 00:12:13.801 enter into less legal agreements. 00:12:13.911 --> 00:12:17.301 So maybe just a contract as opposed to a trust. 00:12:17.661 --> 00:12:23.376 Um, But yes, I think overall people do honor those and recognize them 00:12:23.416 --> 00:12:26.986 as legally binding agreements. 00:12:27.326 --> 00:12:30.996 And there's been some litigation though. 00:12:31.006 --> 00:12:36.586 So as you can imagine, there's a very famous case in the United States 00:12:36.586 --> 00:12:44.056 involving Leona Helmsley, who was one of the founders of a large hotel chain. 00:12:44.346 --> 00:12:46.906 And when she died, she left her dog. 00:12:47.441 --> 00:12:49.091 Aptly named trouble. 00:12:49.301 --> 00:12:56.151 Um, $13 million, and a judge stepped in and said that he thought that 00:12:56.151 --> 00:12:58.521 $13 million was too much for a dog. 00:12:59.511 --> 00:13:04.921 And so they reduced the amount of money that was being left for Trouble's benefit. 00:13:05.671 --> 00:13:06.951 Couple of things here. 00:13:07.141 --> 00:13:10.751 Number one, I don't think it was the judge's prerogative to 00:13:10.751 --> 00:13:13.801 decide what the proper number was. 00:13:14.051 --> 00:13:16.921 I mean, he exercised that jurisdiction, obviously. 00:13:17.141 --> 00:13:22.051 But it was Leona Helmsley's money and she should be able to leave however much 00:13:22.051 --> 00:13:23.941 she wants for the benefit of her dog. 00:13:24.381 --> 00:13:26.771 The problem was there were people involved. 00:13:27.201 --> 00:13:31.111 And so the people were the ones that challenged the trust. 00:13:31.141 --> 00:13:34.911 Obviously, the dog didn't, um, walk into court and say, hey, 00:13:34.911 --> 00:13:36.831 I think 13 million is too much. 00:13:37.621 --> 00:13:38.101 Right? 00:13:38.471 --> 00:13:41.081 So it was the people that got involved. 00:13:41.101 --> 00:13:44.421 And so I think you have to balance. 00:13:45.341 --> 00:13:50.941 What you're leaving for the purpose and that's why I always suggest a charity as 00:13:50.951 --> 00:13:55.811 the final beneficiary instead of people because I don't like to give people an 00:13:55.811 --> 00:14:00.811 incentive to, um, not follow your wishes. 00:14:01.391 --> 00:14:03.431 Anke: Yeah, no, that makes, that makes sense. 00:14:03.811 --> 00:14:07.201 I mean, would you, I don't know how many 00:14:09.281 --> 00:14:13.921 people usually have who they would trust with their dogs, like, but I personally, 00:14:13.921 --> 00:14:19.381 I'm very much like, okay, there's like very few people on this earth who I trust 00:14:19.381 --> 00:14:22.191 with my dogs, you know, where I'm from. 00:14:22.566 --> 00:14:26.876 I would be sure that they're not just capable of taking care of 00:14:26.876 --> 00:14:28.146 them, but they'd also want them, 00:14:29.266 --> 00:14:29.396 Peggy: you 00:14:29.396 --> 00:14:33.866 Anke: know, so, because you don't want to throw these people under 00:14:33.866 --> 00:14:37.536 the bus either, you know, like, just sort of dump that responsibility on 00:14:37.536 --> 00:14:39.856 them when they've not, not chosen it. 00:14:40.206 --> 00:14:44.956 So what kind of organization, when you say, well, okay, as a last resort, when 00:14:44.956 --> 00:14:48.706 you say, you know, because that also takes the pressure off, like, say, if 00:14:48.706 --> 00:14:52.666 I have a first level person that I'm thinking, like, okay, I'd love you 00:14:52.666 --> 00:14:57.921 to Take care of the dogs, you know, but if they for some reason can't do 00:14:57.921 --> 00:15:01.721 it, or they also feel like they have a bit of a way out, so it's not like, 00:15:01.721 --> 00:15:04.451 okay, you're, that's your problem now. 00:15:05.121 --> 00:15:09.111 What kind of, because that's the thing, I wouldn't want to, wouldn't 00:15:09.111 --> 00:15:12.911 want them to end up in some, you know, shelter or something, right? 00:15:12.911 --> 00:15:18.771 So it's almost like, what kind of organizations or like, who would 00:15:18.771 --> 00:15:23.176 you suggest to be the, you know, You know, bucket kind of at the end. 00:15:23.876 --> 00:15:24.426 There are 00:15:24.476 --> 00:15:29.326 Peggy: lots of animal organizations these days who are developing programs 00:15:29.346 --> 00:15:32.106 for the long term care of people's pets. 00:15:35.946 --> 00:15:41.376 These include rescues, shelters, some universities through their veterinary 00:15:41.376 --> 00:15:46.696 school programs have started some programs for long term care for pets. 00:15:47.156 --> 00:15:52.531 I created an organization called Animal Care Trust USA you Um, just 00:15:52.561 --> 00:15:57.671 for that purpose to act as trustee and or to provide, um, permanent 00:15:57.681 --> 00:16:00.471 placement for animals through a network. 00:16:00.841 --> 00:16:04.941 There are organizations that we call perpetual care facilities. 00:16:05.781 --> 00:16:11.031 That really that's what they're designed to do is to provide this lifetime care. 00:16:11.461 --> 00:16:16.101 In some instances, it may not be the lifestyle that your pet would be used 00:16:16.101 --> 00:16:21.111 to because you want them to maybe live in a more home like environment. 00:16:21.451 --> 00:16:25.916 So, Not going to be a suitable suggestion for everybody. 00:16:26.566 --> 00:16:32.416 I'm one of those crazy people, Anke, that when I die, I don't want my dogs 00:16:32.436 --> 00:16:35.596 or my cat or my horses to have to move. 00:16:35.956 --> 00:16:40.976 I want them to live in my house, and then I want the pet caregiver 00:16:41.006 --> 00:16:47.086 to come and live at my house and take care of my animals, so that 00:16:47.086 --> 00:16:49.376 the only thing that's missing is me. 00:16:50.746 --> 00:16:52.151 that their life really, they're still in their, 00:16:52.156 --> 00:16:53.806 Anke: oh, I hadn't even thought of that. 00:16:53.866 --> 00:16:54.436 Yeah. 00:16:54.826 --> 00:16:55.126 Peggy: Yeah. 00:16:55.126 --> 00:16:59.146 So that their life really goes on unchanged except for. 00:16:59.991 --> 00:17:04.371 Who's doing the walking, the cleaning the feed bowls, providing the food, 00:17:04.411 --> 00:17:09.401 taking them to the vet, um, doing their, you know, daily care routines. 00:17:09.671 --> 00:17:15.681 Um, and so it is difficult to find people that you trust, but I challenge 00:17:15.681 --> 00:17:22.361 people to develop relationships with younger people who really love pets. 00:17:22.941 --> 00:17:28.826 Um, a good source are the veterinary technicians that work at, you know, Um, 00:17:28.836 --> 00:17:33.906 your vet's office, because as a general rule, those people are going to be younger 00:17:33.926 --> 00:17:39.526 and Um, obviously they love pets or they wouldn't be working in that role. 00:17:40.556 --> 00:17:43.346 Anke: That's such a, that's such a good idea to even think 00:17:43.356 --> 00:17:44.626 in that direction, right? 00:17:44.636 --> 00:17:47.796 To not just sort of scan, like in my mind, I'm sort of 00:17:47.806 --> 00:17:49.476 scanning my contact book, right? 00:17:50.006 --> 00:17:53.566 Just like, who would I, you know, Jesus, you know? 00:17:54.886 --> 00:17:59.676 And, um, yeah, but to actually cultivate relationships for that. 00:17:59.706 --> 00:18:00.256 Yeah. 00:18:00.326 --> 00:18:03.106 Oh, well that makes, and I guess that, you know, you think about if 00:18:03.106 --> 00:18:07.691 you have, uh, somebody who's studying, well they'd love to have a place 00:18:07.691 --> 00:18:10.121 to stay, you know, it's like, yeah. 00:18:10.121 --> 00:18:10.601 Right. 00:18:11.201 --> 00:18:15.791 Peggy: I had the opportunity to speak at PetSitters International, which again 00:18:15.791 --> 00:18:20.461 is a great organization for people to look to, but I asked the question to 00:18:20.461 --> 00:18:24.991 the audience, um, who here would be willing to move into someone else's 00:18:24.991 --> 00:18:29.211 house if you knew all of the expenses were going to be provided for you? 00:18:29.346 --> 00:18:33.456 in order to care for their dogs or their cat or their bunny rabbits or their 00:18:33.466 --> 00:18:38.166 horses and um, I would say more than 50 percent of the room their hands shot up. 00:18:38.506 --> 00:18:40.906 I'm pretty sure, yeah, I'd be lying, 00:18:40.906 --> 00:18:41.016 Anke: yeah. 00:18:42.836 --> 00:18:46.406 That makes, that's, yeah, that makes it so much, it feels so 00:18:46.406 --> 00:18:48.321 much more doable like that. 00:18:48.651 --> 00:18:49.901 You know, because that's the thing. 00:18:49.901 --> 00:18:53.771 It's like, if I'm the only crazy dog person in my family, you know, I'm 00:18:53.771 --> 00:18:57.921 thinking like I might not have somebody in my immediate family, my, like, if I 00:18:57.921 --> 00:19:02.451 take my, my parents, for example, they love dogs and they consciously don't have 00:19:02.451 --> 00:19:04.201 one because they love traveling more. 00:19:04.401 --> 00:19:10.041 Even if we took the age out of the equation here, you know, they love my 00:19:10.041 --> 00:19:14.771 dogs, they wouldn't be keen to have them because then they can't go anywhere. 00:19:14.801 --> 00:19:15.081 Right. 00:19:15.081 --> 00:19:15.631 So it's. 00:19:16.086 --> 00:19:20.676 It's um, a whole different direction to look into, which 00:19:20.696 --> 00:19:22.736 I think makes a lot more sense. 00:19:23.336 --> 00:19:25.656 Peggy: Yeah, and, and even, you're exactly right. 00:19:25.696 --> 00:19:30.986 I mean, even if we have people that love our dogs, um, They may not have 00:19:30.986 --> 00:19:35.586 a lifestyle that would be conducive to providing them with the kind of 00:19:35.586 --> 00:19:37.366 care that you would want them to have. 00:19:37.716 --> 00:19:42.506 Um, maybe they live in an apartment and you want your dogs to live on a piece 00:19:42.506 --> 00:19:44.566 of property where they have room to run. 00:19:44.806 --> 00:19:48.816 Um, so you always, you have to take all of those things into consideration 00:19:49.146 --> 00:19:52.946 and that's why it's so important too to have those multiple layers 00:19:52.946 --> 00:19:57.661 of people because We never know what somebody's circumstances are going to 00:19:57.671 --> 00:20:00.571 be at that relevant moment in time. 00:20:01.111 --> 00:20:05.961 Anke: Yeah, and I think the biggest thing I see is to even 00:20:05.981 --> 00:20:08.001 start thinking in that direction. 00:20:08.141 --> 00:20:10.776 Like, You know, it's like build that network. 00:20:10.786 --> 00:20:12.266 It's like when you go on LinkedIn, right? 00:20:12.266 --> 00:20:15.496 You can't stop building a network when you already need a job, right? 00:20:15.676 --> 00:20:19.376 So you need to cultivate those relationships before you need them. 00:20:19.376 --> 00:20:20.936 And I think it's the same here. 00:20:20.966 --> 00:20:24.706 So you don't want to like scramble like crazy, like, okay, now I can't 00:20:24.716 --> 00:20:28.846 take care of my dog, well, if I'm dead, then I can't even do anything anymore. 00:20:29.356 --> 00:20:32.326 And so you need to think about that before you need it. 00:20:33.021 --> 00:20:38.401 Peggy: Absolutely, well in advance of need and as a general rule, I think people are 00:20:38.401 --> 00:20:45.811 really optimistic because we always say, when I win the lottery, and if I die, and, 00:20:46.221 --> 00:20:52.871 and so we forget that we really do have to plan for that eventuality when we die. 00:20:52.871 --> 00:20:57.991 And, you know, our things are unimportant, but our pets are. 00:20:59.021 --> 00:21:04.321 are living, breathing, loving, sentient beings that we have made 00:21:04.321 --> 00:21:08.891 a lifetime commitment to and so we owe it to them to continue that 00:21:08.891 --> 00:21:11.441 commitment on into the future. 00:21:12.176 --> 00:21:14.576 Anke: Yeah, no, that makes, that makes so much sense. 00:21:15.906 --> 00:21:19.836 Yeah, it goes kind of like, oh yeah, I hadn't even thought of, you know, the, 00:21:19.886 --> 00:21:24.506 the house sitter and then also looking at like consciously looking at younger 00:21:24.506 --> 00:21:26.046 people because yeah, that's the thing. 00:21:26.046 --> 00:21:28.686 If I look at my parents, well, oh, that's kind of worse, right? 00:21:28.946 --> 00:21:33.886 So that doesn't, and, and friends tend to be sort of the same age. 00:21:33.886 --> 00:21:38.716 So, you know, that's, you know, maximum like that first layer. 00:21:38.746 --> 00:21:42.466 So you definitely want some younger people in the mix that it makes. 00:21:42.706 --> 00:21:45.116 Peggy: Yeah, so every time you go to the vet, you have to take the 00:21:45.116 --> 00:21:49.356 vet techs out for lunch, right, or bring donuts or something to get on 00:21:49.356 --> 00:21:53.286 their good side and start developing that relationship with these younger 00:21:53.286 --> 00:21:58.566 people, or by joining some, you know, animal related clubs or organizations 00:21:58.576 --> 00:22:03.416 where, um, you might be exposed to folks that have a similar interest. 00:22:04.916 --> 00:22:05.366 Anke: So maybe 00:22:05.366 --> 00:22:08.696 Peggy: you could enter into an agreement with somebody that says, well, if you 00:22:08.696 --> 00:22:10.686 take my dogs, I'll take your dogs, 00:22:10.696 --> 00:22:11.236 Anke: right? 00:22:11.386 --> 00:22:12.256 Yeah, totally. 00:22:12.286 --> 00:22:12.696 Totally. 00:22:12.876 --> 00:22:15.066 I was just thinking like, well, I could do that with my friend 00:22:15.066 --> 00:22:18.286 and then I could easily end up with six more and then I'll get 00:22:18.286 --> 00:22:18.566 Peggy: you. 00:22:19.706 --> 00:22:22.316 Well, if she leaves you the money, then there you go. 00:22:22.326 --> 00:22:25.896 Get a bigger place and, um, you have a happy dog farm. 00:22:26.336 --> 00:22:27.306 Anke: Totally, totally. 00:22:28.456 --> 00:22:29.676 I wouldn't mind actually. 00:22:30.026 --> 00:22:33.036 Yeah, that's funny because that's also the other piece like, you know, when 00:22:33.036 --> 00:22:37.596 you think about it, when you think about even when you go on holiday or something 00:22:37.596 --> 00:22:41.356 like to kind of find a place to stay for one dog is always one thing, right? 00:22:41.386 --> 00:22:43.246 You know, but like, what do you do with eight? 00:22:44.316 --> 00:22:45.626 Peggy: Well, right, yeah. 00:22:45.866 --> 00:22:50.006 So I used to travel from Florida to Virginia with six dogs. 00:22:50.036 --> 00:22:56.881 This is before I, um, my farm was ready here in Virginia and Six dogs. 00:22:56.881 --> 00:23:01.271 We had to drive non stop because I always jokingly said I don't have 00:23:01.301 --> 00:23:06.381 any friends who like me enough to let me stay over with six dogs, right? 00:23:06.951 --> 00:23:09.471 Anke: Yeah, no, that's the thing, is that you have to, I don't know, 00:23:09.471 --> 00:23:12.261 like a camper van or something where you can all sleep in it. 00:23:12.531 --> 00:23:13.871 It's the only way to go, right? 00:23:14.141 --> 00:23:15.451 Peggy: Yeah, that's exactly right. 00:23:15.451 --> 00:23:20.771 Or if you tried to stay, and we have tried this, staying at like a Airbnb, 00:23:21.031 --> 00:23:25.346 um, You know, the dogs are out of sorts because they're not in their home 00:23:25.346 --> 00:23:27.566 environment and they're very nervous. 00:23:27.866 --> 00:23:32.716 So, for us, it just became easier to drive straight through. 00:23:32.976 --> 00:23:36.556 Um, and the dogs were perfect angels the whole way. 00:23:36.576 --> 00:23:37.986 They slept most of the time. 00:23:38.856 --> 00:23:43.596 Here we were driving and driving and driving for hours on end just to make sure 00:23:43.596 --> 00:23:45.696 that they were not gonna be uncomfortable. 00:23:45.726 --> 00:23:46.056 Right. 00:23:46.116 --> 00:23:46.656 Anke: Yeah. 00:23:46.806 --> 00:23:49.986 Well, all the stuff we thought we do for our dogs, right. 00:23:50.076 --> 00:23:50.166 Right, 00:23:51.366 --> 00:23:51.756 Peggy: exactly. 00:23:51.761 --> 00:23:54.396 Anke: So, so if somebody goes, well, hey, that makes sense. 00:23:54.396 --> 00:23:56.076 I wanna start. 00:23:57.036 --> 00:23:58.256 moving some things. 00:23:58.256 --> 00:23:59.196 I want to get started. 00:23:59.196 --> 00:24:03.276 I want to find out what's available and possible in my area. 00:24:03.316 --> 00:24:06.956 So what's a good place for people to go and where they can they find 00:24:07.036 --> 00:24:11.026 out about you and get in touch with you and you know make those 00:24:11.596 --> 00:24:13.056 Peggy: lots of lots of places to start. 00:24:13.086 --> 00:24:16.756 So I do have a book called All My Children Wear Fur Coats How 00:24:16.796 --> 00:24:18.286 to Leave a Legacy for Your Pet. 00:24:18.676 --> 00:24:21.626 So there's a lot of really good ideas in the book. 00:24:22.066 --> 00:24:29.226 Secondarily, If you already have an estate plan, and I hope you do, um, you have an 00:24:29.226 --> 00:24:34.246 attorney, perhaps, that you can talk to who would be aware of the laws in your 00:24:34.246 --> 00:24:37.076 jurisdiction about planning for pets. 00:24:37.376 --> 00:24:42.606 But I would caution people to work with people who are pet lovers, so that they 00:24:42.606 --> 00:24:49.376 have that natural inclination to think about what would be best for pets. 00:24:49.821 --> 00:24:52.391 And then, um, explore the alternatives. 00:24:52.781 --> 00:24:56.791 Like, like you said, start developing those relationships and networks 00:24:56.791 --> 00:25:00.671 with people who are younger that you know to be pet lovers. 00:25:00.961 --> 00:25:05.581 Um, you know, use a pet sitter on a regular basis so you can develop that 00:25:05.581 --> 00:25:10.211 relationship too, so that you have that short term caregiver at least, right? 00:25:10.586 --> 00:25:15.206 Anke: Yeah, yeah, so yeah, absolutely we're gonna pop the link to the book 00:25:15.216 --> 00:25:19.676 in the in the show notes and you know Make it easy for people to find you. 00:25:19.946 --> 00:25:23.346 So thank you so much Like this was really eye opening and I'm thinking 00:25:23.346 --> 00:25:27.666 Jesus like yeah We really have to all think about that because you can't just 00:25:28.876 --> 00:25:34.456 you know Throw the closest people under the bus when something happens and or 00:25:34.456 --> 00:25:37.426 leave your leave your dogs Unattended. 00:25:37.426 --> 00:25:39.656 So that's, that's probably the worst thing that can happen. 00:25:40.216 --> 00:25:42.326 Peggy: Yeah, you definitely don't want to leave it to chance. 00:25:42.326 --> 00:25:43.886 You want to have a plan. 00:25:44.236 --> 00:25:48.246 And I like to say that, uh, wishful thinking isn't planning, 00:25:49.516 --> 00:25:49.746 Anke: right? 00:25:49.996 --> 00:25:50.646 Not a strategy, right? 00:25:53.166 --> 00:25:53.616 Love that. 00:25:53.646 --> 00:25:54.836 Well, thank you so much. 00:25:55.096 --> 00:25:58.126 This was an absolute delight and quite the eye opener, to be honest. 00:25:58.146 --> 00:25:58.796 Like, yeah. 00:25:59.076 --> 00:26:01.346 So definitely some, some work to do. 00:26:01.346 --> 00:26:02.056 So thank you. 00:26:02.226 --> 00:26:03.146 Thank you for filling us in. 00:26:03.146 --> 00:26:03.516 You're 00:26:03.556 --> 00:26:04.316 Peggy: so welcome. 00:26:04.376 --> 00:26:04.806 Yeah. 00:26:05.016 --> 00:26:06.096 Happy planning, right? 00:26:06.516 --> 00:26:07.166 Exactly. 00:26:08.683 --> 00:26:09.913 Thanks so much for listening. 00:26:10.433 --> 00:26:14.733 If you enjoyed the episode, don't forget to subscribe, and leave a review so 00:26:14.833 --> 00:26:16.613 other dog lovers can find the show. 00:26:17.403 --> 00:26:20.893 If you haven't already, head over to soul touched by dogs. 00:26:21.323 --> 00:26:26.893 com and sign up for weekly doggy cuteness tips, recommendations, and personal 00:26:26.993 --> 00:26:29.363 stories to warm your dog loving heart. 00:26:29.363 --> 00:26:33.093 And if you know a pawsome human you think I should interview, 00:26:33.513 --> 00:26:34.653 I'd love an introduction. 00:26:35.133 --> 00:26:36.963 Email me at Anke. 00:26:37.233 --> 00:26:41.468 That's A N k E at Soul touched by dogs.com.