Show Notes
Intro: The cult(ure) of skiing. Shapewear.
Let Me Run This By You: What is your emotional age? A parent's biggest job.
Interview: We talk to Justen Ross about doing theatre school on zoom, being a multi-hyphenate, and forging a new path for Black students at TTS.
FULL TRANSCRIPT(
00:00:08):
I'm Jen Bosworth from me this and I'm Gina Polizzi. We went to theater school together. We survived it, but we didn't quite understand it. 20 years later, we're digging deep talking to our guests about their experiences and trying to make sense of it all. We survived theater school and you will too. Are we famous yet? So I was good, but it was, you know, is, uh,
It's like the, the culture is very snooty and exclusive and that kind of stuff is tiresome.
Yeah. I there's the culture. Right? So the culture around skiing is it's pretty hoity toity. I mean, if you think about it, it's like people are choosing to put two strips of wood on one foot in each strip and go down and snow. It's very, it's something you definitely choose to. Do you know what I mean?
It's a choice. It's a choice. So w when you were, was it your I'm guessing it was your dad? That was a skier.
So, uh, we had family, friends that were like, and we only did. We only did cross country skiing, but okay. But like, and my sister now, and her family did, they do some downhill skiing, but it was, so it was more, it was the culture around downhill skiing is so different than cross-country is dorky and downhill is like, cool. Right. So, but we, but I know the schlepping of the gear and the, and the, this, but the culture is so different. Like, it's really sort of a ragtag group that cross country ski versus downhill skiing.
Uh, see, I could see myself doing the cross country cause it's kind of like hiking, but just on skis, right? Yeah.
It's a great workout. It's a great workout. And it's also, you get to see, see the forest and see, see places, but it's, it's definitely kids are like, no, we want to go down. Like, what are you talking about?
But did you want to do that when you were a kid?
I was dragged into skiing and then I grew to like cross country skiing and I never have been downhill skiing.
Okay. But, um, I'm just saying like, did, were you one of the people who said to your parents, like, can we try downhill?
I think my sister might have, she was cooler in that way. I just didn't want it. I think I wanted to go ice skating. I wanted to, I did not. I did not say, Hey, let's try cross country skiing, but I definitely liked, I like my friends that went to like Vale for spring break or Christmas break from Evanston, they went to Vail, they went to Aspen. They went to, you know, I was jealous of that scene, but I think I was scared shitless to downhill ski. It's hard as hell.
Yeah. It looks really hard. It looks really hard. So when I was in sixth grade, um, we moved to a place where I was going to be in a different zone for my school district. Um, and so I did sixth grade in a different school than I had done first or kindergarten through fifth, which meant that I, and all those kids had been at that same school since kindergarten was. So it just meant that I didn't know any of those kids. And it was a rich school and one day I just remember them being like, so next week there's no school because it's ski week. And I probably just thought, I don't know. I don't know what I thought. So I went home on Friday and I said to my mom, there's no school next week. And she said, it's not because it was February or March was, it was too early for spring break.
She was like, it's not spring break. I said, it's ski week. And she goes, no, that's not a thing, mom. That's what all the kids are in. They're all going skiing. And she said for a whole week, we just had this back and forth because of course she was a single mom, like to, had to make, had to like quick. Right? Yeah. Just one of the many things. And you know, when we were there at this place, um, there was many a nanny with the younger kids. So you know that they paid to bring the nap. It just, wow. It's just a whole thing. And I don't, I'm not knocking it because I think if you can afford it and you like it, I think that's great. But it's just, I guess it's sort of still weird to me that, that, that there's just these rarefied pockets. Yeah.
Nothing has. I think that the, um, yeah, the, it hasn't changed. Like we've changed in some ways, but then there are these pockets of real classes sort of, um, look like good people, downhill ski. I'm not saying that, but the culture is one of, um, you know, elite it's elite. It's like skiing is not a thing. Like, like we said before that you have to do like walk, you know, like hiking, uh, you have to kind of walk so you can have, anyone can kind of hike, but skiing is a whole, you have to buy a lot of apparatus and the lab equipment or rent. And I remember my sister saying she took her, I think she took me and went, I forget, but it was like $200 a person just to get in.
Oh, just the lift. Oh yeah. And that's not counting. Uh, w you know, if you have to stay overnight, all that you have to buy, not only the skis and the boots and the poles, we rented them, but, you know, you have to pay to rent them too. Um, but also the pants and the jacket and the goggles and the, I mean, it's, but I will say it's very adorable that my seven year old is like, like a great, you know, she's a great skier.
That's cool. That is, it is cool.
I think it is cool too. And the thing I was saying to my husband is, you know, cause I have the same sort of feeling about tennis and we haven't done golf, but I'm sure that's in our future. And I said, you know, I, I th I'm disconnected from these sports because I didn't grow up with them. But at the same time, I think what a gift we're giving them, because a lot of industries, including our industry, uh, a lot of business happens on the tennis court, on the ski slopes, on the golf course. And they're going to be, they're going to know how to do all that,
All of those things. Yeah. And I think just on a base level, like Gina, the, um, the athleticism is important, even skates. It's hard. I wish I had, I think I would've had a better relationship with my body. Had my family done more outdoor activities. We did. I mean, we, we did some, but like, it wasn't encouraged as a family. We, we, when we were younger, we did, but like, we, weren't a real active family in that way. And I think that's a lot of eighties, nineties sort of sit in front of the television, but I wish I had done more of that. Like, or been forced to or something. I don't know. I just, yeah,
No, but being forced to, or being forced to take music lessons, I mean, there's all kinds of things that, yes, we would have probably railed against them as kids, but wouldn't, you love to be this age and be like, I haven't done it a long time, but I know how to play tennis. I haven't done a long time, but I know how to play the piano. Just all of these things that help to make you a more rounded person
And help you get jobs like in life, like people now, what I'm, you know, people are really going for that sort of, well, they say, and I think they are as well-rounded humans, like, Oh, you don't just do this. Like, like we talked to someone, you know, a hyphenate person, a multihyphenate person. They're like, yeah, I play tennis. Yeah. And, or, or, um, I think it also just, and everyone has always said this, but it helps with self esteem. The more activities that you feel like you, you know, how to do the more you're like, yeah, I can handle this life. I know things.
Yeah. And it's also kind of this thing about like, when, when, when, when areas of life are not closed off to you, you know, because when you don't have a great variety of things that you learn how to do outside of just going to school or whatever, you end up feeling like a lot of life is not available to you. And I know it is if I really wanted to learn how to do these things, I could, I just feel like I missed my window for those things. And it does, it does serve to make me feel on the outside.
Did you write while you were away? I wrote blog post.
I edited the episode and I did something else too.
That's enough. I mean, look,
Yeah. Yeah. I was trying to write a play for my group, a short play for my group. Um, and I didn't, you know, it was like, I kept trying to make an idea that wasn't that strong work and it just wasn't working.
And sometimes it just doesn't like I was thinking too, like, just because it's funny with writing, I think anyway, I don't know how you feel about this, but just because you have the time doesn't actually mean that something good is going to come out.
Yeah, that's right. That's right. Yeah.
Don't have time something good comes out. Like I, I just wrote that. Well, yeah. That's an interesting thing. Yeah. And I was like, I was so mad because I was thinking about how, I don't know. I just got mad thinking about how, um, right. Um, the plus size world is such a weird world and we talked a little bit about how, you know, plus being a bigger human in this life and bigger means so many things to so many people like I'm, I'm reading all these posts of people that are qualifying for the vaccine because they're obese and they're not, they don't quote local bees, but their BMI. And so they get vaccine and other people are like, well, you know, the, the comments are like, you don't look fat. Why, how can you get the vaccine? You don't look fat. And it's like, well, first of all, BMI is a little crazy.
Second of all, be quiet. Third of all, we need to get the vaccine and that's gross. And you know that this is, but anyway, the point is, I got really mad about this sort of idea of like, you know, what, what is plus size? What is, um, who qualifies as that? And then I wrote this thing about this woman who just is sick of his shape, where, cause I thought about, and I like shape where like I wear it on, on sex. It feels kind of nice at a point, but it's like, at what point does it become like a prison shape where, you know, and I just couldn't take it. I just thought what if it was to the extreme? And some people must wear tons of it. Right? Like they have. Yes.
And even I, what I feel like I've heard of before is quite thin people wearing multiple sets. It's fast, very sad. That's all.
And the idea that like you literally, so when I was on empire, I was on the show empire. I had like, I had literally one line. Right. But they, I was in scrubs and they put me in shape where like apply in scrubs. Okay. So shape where you could wear your own. And I had some, but the kind I had had metal ribbing and metal boning to keep it up and to keep it in, to keep everything sucked in. But the problem was, this is crazy. So if you know how sets are, they're so long. And I was on there for 12 hours and the started coming out of the casing of the, and it started stabbing me. And I literally couldn't sit down because you can't go in half when you have the ribbing on. So I'm standing, trying not to ever look, do you want to see it?
I'm like literally embarrassed. Cause I can't say I cannot sit down because of the shape where, and I, I brought my own, so it was my, my shape where I hadn't tried it on. I hadn't done the anyway. I had a gash in my stomach from the shape where, when I got home that I had tend to a wound with like a wound care for it. And I just, I was thinking about that and I got so mad and I thought, who cares? I have a one line. And she was like, you're going to wear shapewear. Right. And I was like, Oh sure. I okay. Because I just really wanted to please the costume designer, but it was, it's like a scrubs. I played a nurse who cared. I had one line, blah, blah, blah. You're the doctor will see you now. You know, that was my line. And they, I had to do that anyway. I was very, it was like a gash. Like you can't see, but like half an inch, you know, that's insane. Completely insane. That got me thinking,
Yeah, let me run this by you still kind of emotional that you ever meet people.
And I play this game a lot. I talked to somebody and I get to know somebody and I think, okay, no matter what, by the way, what they have going on on the outside, no matter how mature adult looking, they sound, seem, act, I have this way of being like, okay, so you're eight years old emotionally. Like, and it's usually always under 15, right. For all of us. Cause we all have this trauma, we get traumatized, we get traumatized. And, and if so, I, I, I played that game with other people. And then I try to figure out on any given day where I'm at emotionally. Cause I don't think it's static. You know, I think it changes. And, and actually it's so helpful to do that, to try to remember what was happening for you in your life at that time. And then instead of, um, like how probably both of us want to do just shame ourselves or beat ourselves up, that we should have been better when we were that age just to have compassion and say, Oh, well I know what was going on then.
And, and I was feeling extremely insecure. So that's the part of my development that just stopped. And it's that age, you know, what's so weird is that I'm thinking now I have really regressed sometimes in my speaking to miles. So I'll say, Hey Maya, like a kid. And I realized it's like, I'm five years old, but it's because I think I'm trying to heal that part of myself. I it's not, but I can throw temper tantrums too. Especially at night. Like I got to go, I literally say, I gotta go night, night. I gotta go night night right now. And he's like, what in the hell? But I think that's, what's going on. I turned into, I regress emotionally. And I think it's because when I was five, my mom started traveling and leaving us with my dad who was severely depressed guy and I was stunted stunted. And so when, when, when I'm triggered in that way, I turned into a five-year-old. But the difference with me is I don't then get on the phone and start calling business associates and people like and saying, hi, help me. I got to go nine, nine. I mean, they'd be like, um, so we know enough to not do that.
Yeah. Um, and I hear enough, we're aware enough. Yeah. And, and playing this game and then having kids. Isn't interesting because I spent a lot of time thinking about like, am I helping them grow past this phase or this age or not? And, um, my daughter, because she's very smart and very capable and, and she grew up, you know, she's growing up in this, this house with this family. She, I can already see, she is the, um, she's like the peacekeeper I can tell. She really feels like she has to have it together all the time. So I'm work. Aaron and I are really working hard to figure out like how we can give her the message. I mean, cause like, clearly I know from having done this clearly the message that we've been giving her is that she needs to do this, that she needs to like completely take care of herself, which it makes sense to me why she would be doing that for reasons.
I won't say right now. Um, and on this trip, the end of our second day, or I was like, yeah, the end of our second day, we're at dinner. And we got down there too late in the kitchen was closed. And so Erin had to leave to go get food and we're, we're just in the hotel lobby hanging out. And she, she brought the stuff to color and we were coloring together. And then my, my son wanted to do it with us. And then he started like kind of trying to take it over and she just burst into tears. And she said, everybody puts so much pressure on me. Oh, I wanted to die. I just wanted to, I, I, but I, but at the same time, I'm so glad she could say it and we could validate it. All of us. They were like, yep, we do. We put too much pressure on you because if you're, if you're seemingly competent and you're in the context of others, then you have to be like, even more.
That is wild. But see here's the thing. You could use it as a, as like you, you were able to, to acknowledge it instead of what happened in my family, which was no, you're not no pressure on you. Of course. There's no pressure on you. What are you even talking about? I remember writing, Oh my gosh. At like maybe seven writing, uh, with crayons. I am always alone. Okay. Okay. And leaving it. I was home alone at seven watching television, my parrot, who knows where everybody was. So I leave that out of not shocking. I mean, I don't mean to, but of course I did. And my mom goes, Oh my God. I saw that note. That is that true. And I felt so bad that, of course I lied. I said, no, no, I was just kidding. She goes, okay, great. She'd never investigated any of it. So at least you're investigating what it means. The messages you're getting from her and from your children instead of dismissing squashing or denial, my mom was like, great. Okay. You were just joking. Oh good. Instead of like, let's really talk about this. Do you feel alone? Or when do you feel alone? No conversation, no conversation.
Right? Because it's just so threatening to the parent. Like if, if I take you seriously, then I have to admit that I've failed you in some ways as a parent. And that's the other thing. Why does any parent ever think that they're not going to fail their kids? I mean, I had a therapist one time who said, this is I had, this was like, I went to this person when I was very first a mom. And he said, it's so tempting to think you're going to do it perfectly. Isn't it? And I'm like, I didn't even know that that's how I was thinking of it. But that's exactly how I was thinking about it. And twice in the last couple of weeks, uh, I have basically forced myself to engage in a conversation with two of my separate times with two of my kids, about ways that I failed them.
And I just realized like, this is the conversation. This is basically your biggest job as a, as a parent to be open to this conversation. Because no matter how hard you try, you're going to fail your kids in innumerable ways because you're flawed and you can't be everything to your child when they need it. And the best thing you can do is when the day comes and they could be five, they could be 45 when they come to you and they say, Hey, you know, you did this. And it really didn't work out just to be able to say, I'm sorry. You're right. I did do that. And not say, well, it's not my fault. Cause that's how, uh, you know, my, my parents raised me. That was your father's fault. You were anything like that. It just has to be. Yes. I hear you. Yes. I'm sorry. Yes. I'm open to talking to you about it at any time that you want to talk to me about.
That is so beautiful. I wish that had had the only time that happened with my mom was when she was dying.
That's usually when it is. And then it's like, and when she did that, you did you get
Angry? I got angry. I got angry because it was obviously such a bind to be in to say, but I did say, you know, you did the best you could, but it wasn't good enough. And I'm thank you for saying, but of course I got angry because I was like, you're going to wait until now when I'm taking care of you and you're dying. Yeah. Yeah. Talk about putting pressure on somebody to forgive. Right, right, right. I know. And also it's weird that you, that any of us could have so much clarity about the problems in the way that we were raised and still think that if we are raising children that we're somehow doing it exactly the right way. It's so it's, it's interesting. You know, the other thing that's interesting to me is like, I think it's a really good that she said, everyone always puts so much pressure on me.
I think it's a good thing to think about how we all put so much pressure on ourselves to like, as adults, like I used to hate hate children crying in restaurants. Right. I would like want to, I would, it would bring up so much rage in me that it was a problem area. And finally, a therapist said to me, can you just imagine that that child is screaming and yelling because you can't in a restaurant for us, it is expressing the thing that adults cannot do. And I was like, whew. It like opened up. It gave me so much more compassion. And also I was like, Oh, they're, I'm partly enraged because they're doing what I wish I could do sometimes. And they can do it. And I was like, I never was allowed to do that. Oh my gosh. So it, but like the fact that she was able to say that, Oh, how amazing, you know, because we do, we put pressure on ourselves. We put pressure on our children. Everyone's putting pressure on everything. And you know, and then you got the Pablo macaroni is of the world just making it worse.
Now here's a question to the Pablo macaronis of the world, put pressure on themselves. I think they do. I think the pressure is to keep up the lie. Right. And even that is a job. That's a job now. I don't know if they feel it as pressure. Right? It's not that sort of crusher. Like, I'm a good person. Why is this happening to me? It's more like, can I keep it up? Can I keep it up? But that's a different kind of pressure, but I don't think they put the, like the good, guilty pressure on them for like serial killers or they like, gosh, you know, my numbers have been really low. That's got to get my head in the game. Why is my head out of the cave? That's hilarious. Her head in the game
To the freezer podcast. We talk with Justin Ross. Justin Ross is the first person we've talked to. Who's currently a student right now at a theater conservatory. Um, he's, he's a fourth year BFA student met DePaul and we had a lovely conversation with him. He's a multihyphenate. He does it all. He's an actor. He's a writer. He's a filmmaker. He's a mover. He's a singer. He's just, he's full of life. He's effervescent. And he has his insights and his, um, just the amount of weirdness that he has about himself as an artist, as a human, um, as a student was, was glorious. So please enjoy our interview with Justin Roth. So
Justin, I don't know if you've ever listened to our podcast before, but we start every episode by telling people, congratulations, you survived theater school, but you actually haven't survived it yet.
Not yet. I'm almost there. I'm like
You are surviving a currently surviving. Justin, what year are you?
I'm in my last year. So I graduated in June.
Okay. So boss is going to be your teacher to be your teacher. Uh, I'm going to teach on camera too. Um, spring quarter on the 29th, starting on the 29th. Yeah.
Yeah. I'll see you there. It's going to be you there. We're going to love that.
We are just dying to know what this has been like to be doing this remotely. It must be just wild.
Oh yeah, definitely. It's it's it's it's like, and I'll tell you, let me turn that off. Um, so, you know, I was, I have an interesting story with, you know, my mom works for the CDC and I'm from Atlanta, Atlanta, Georgia, and Atlanta right now. And my mom works at the CDC headquarters here. She's been on the COVID response team. And so this time, last year, it really around January last year I got a call and my mom was like, Hey family, we're going to get on a call. I just want to let you know some things. Cause she was in New Jersey at the time. She was like, okay. So COVID is like a thing. And the country is probably going to go into shutdown in these next few weeks. And just knowing my mom, I'm like, Oh my God, you're being so dramatic. She works there and I'm still like, mom, like it's okay.
And she was absolutely right. Come March, everything shut down. And um, the world turned upside down in more ways than one. Um, and so for me, I think artistically, because I don't only act I do music, I dance and I do a lot of those things. I'm a multihyphenate artists. And so at the time I had just done my first, um, a group of artists and I had just done our first live concert for an EAP we dropped and it was, it was beautiful. It was so beautiful. I got nominated for a princess grace scholarship, which is like, which is a scholarship, you know? Yeah. Things were moving. I th I just felt like, wow, like God in the universe is finally seeing my work and I'm being rewarded for the work that I've put in. And just, and I'm, I'm getting somewhere. I feel, uh, I feel a momentum coming.
And as soon as that momentum came, it was like, like the rug got swept from under no more concerts, princess grace scholarship got canceled, which would have paid off a large portion of my loans. Um, and so, and so just as an artist, as a person, I realized in that mode, I was a little bit in a survival mode as an artist. I was living in this place of like, my art gives me meaning and my artists who I am. Um, and I think there's a spectrum of that, but like, it's not the whole thing. And so going to school on zoom, I just lost all motivation in the spring. I was like, Oh, I was, I was skipping class. I was like, Oh, this. Like, I'm not doing like, I'm just, I'm not doing it. Um, but I had to go through a, truly like a spiritual awakening in order to like really adapt and move and not resist how it's been happening. Like, wow. Cause I'm just a very, I, I love in person learning. I just love people. I love energy. I just, I love bodies as well. I'm a physical actor. So I just love playing with bodies and seeing what bodies can do in relationship to each other. And so taking that from me has been, it's been very difficult. Um, it's just been, it's been, it's, it's hard, but, um, can I know Justin?
How did my, first of all, my network is very bad, so forgive the delay, but, um, we talk about a lot, my very bad network. Um, but, um, how did you that spiritual awakening? Can you talk a little bit about how the, you moved through that? Like, how did you go from like, this to, you know what, I'm going to give it a shot.
Yeah. As you asked me that at 11, 11, um, I don't, I, Hey, I can't truly, I chose, wow. Where do I start everything I had? So I was in Chicago and everybody, we were forced to go home. So I came back home to Atlanta who chap I had to live. I live with, I had to stay with my parents. Um, I am. I came out of the closet in my freshman year of college, but you know, it's that thing of like, when I came out, I came to Atlanta, came out and I was like, okay, I just came here to come out and I'm going back to Chicago because I had to do it on my work. I stopped growing. And it was because there was a truth that I wasn't confronting. So I was like, Oh yeah. Well, if I'm here to do school, this is a part of the learning.
Like I got to go home and come out, come back and be who I am. And so it's that thing of like, okay, I came out, but I haven't been here long enough for my it's really sink in. And for me to like, have to learn how to be myself around my peoples, you know, friends, family, these people here knew me in my survival mode. They didn't know me and my thrival mode. And so coming home forced me to reckon with how, what I was running from. Um, and so being with my parents, I was running, I was running. I didn't feel like I could be creative around them. I didn't feel like I could be myself, my friends. I didn't feel like I could, the person that I had become in Chicago. I couldn't be that anymore. And I was like, so what's holding me back from that.
I know who I am, but for some reason, I'm in this depression. So I had to really awaken to like, okay, these are the factors in my life that aren't working anymore. So coming back home, I returned not only home, but to the habits that I picked up while I was at home. So the spiritual awakening people make it seem like it's more God. And all it really was, was me having to talk to God as I released the things that no longer served me. And it was hard because I was in this middle position of like, well, what, what, what, what do I run to now? What do I run to? And it was art. It was art. It had to be art. It saved my life. It saved me. I didn't, when I stopped smoking and drinking and I had to do art, it was the only thing left. Um,
That's amazing. That is, I love this story already. So if, but did you, do you performed, I'm assuming you've performed all your, all of your life. So I'm thinking to myself, you were having to perform being a performer right before you went to school and, and that must have been so hard. That's a hat on a hat, on a hat. How did you do how'd you survive that in high school?
What, what, what, what are we to say that I had on a hat on a hat and I survived it. It was about, so just to be transparent, art was about proving myself. At first, it was about having something that I have something to say, I wasn't, I was in, so a little bit of my ego was attached. A lot. A bit of my ego was attached to it. I was like, Oh, I just get to be on stage. And like, you get to see me and I get to be seen and you don't get to, and you get to, and not only that, you get to see how limitless I am. That's what it was about. It wasn't really about telling stories. I'm gonna be honest. Like it just wasn't, it was about my, just knowing that I was capable of getting in front of a thousand people, 500 people and being like, this, because I felt like I couldn't do that in real life.
And so navigating that, like, it's so crazy, like people would be like, you do all that on stage, but then off stage, you're like introvert. You're like the shy person. You're like, you know, so it's like, it was medicine for me. It was like, well, that's enough for me, for you to see me for that hour and 30 and see that that's what I'm capable of. People saw me differently. They did, they did. They treated me differently when they saw me perform. They did, it was almost like I had a sense of worth. Now I was worthy of something. I was worthy of people's communication. I was worthy of people's kindness now, you know, so it was, it was the way that I navigated it. It was, it was survival. Like it truly was. I felt like I was invisible. And then all of a sudden I wasn't.
And, but the work wasn't, you know, it was, it was there, it was therapy when it should have been therapeutic, the art wasn't therapeutic yet. It was just like a way to make friends and feel important. Um, um, but I'm blessed because through those hats on hats, on hats, I've developed a lot of skills now that I now with my different mindset come to with the D come to with a different energy and a different intention of like, okay, I don't need to prove anything to anyone. I have nothing to prove. This is something that I have now, and I can work it every day and I can find the flow in it. And now it heals me rather than me trying to like, I don't know. I don't really know how to describe it, but, you know, just put perform. It's not a performance anymore. It's, it's just me being, it's me existing within that craft.
That's I love that. But, so when you did come back home to be with people that you had known as a performer, when you were performing your performance itself, and how did did, was that a welcoming, I mean, did people welcome you? Was it all good? Or did you have, did you struggle with that with your, within your social life back home?
Not really. I struggled with it. I I'm I'm I have some, I had some people pleas, heavy people, pleasing tendencies. Um, I was, you know, as a child, I was emotionally neglected as a child. Um, just to be very Frank, um, I'm an emotional person. And so that emotional neglect just led me into a place where I just felt like I had to please everyone and perform for everyone to keep them in my life, to keep them present with me emotionally, to keep them, to show them that I'm worth investing in and emotionally and physically as well, like be here. And, and it was hard because I was not voicing what my problems were with anyone. And that was the thing it's like, I feel all these things, but I'm afraid to be emotional. I'm afraid to really be vulnerable and show you like, this is actually who I am now. This is what I need now for me, just because I was afraid that people were going to leave and they left anyway, they had to go anyway, but it wasn't one. So it's like,
Yeah.
And I wouldn't kick them out. Right. Cause you didn't want to be,
How did you, how did you end up at the theater school? I'm so curious how you picked the theater school or how it picked you.
It picked me, it definitely picks me. Um, my parents are from Chicago, so I'm the only one. I'm the only like ATL in like my parents everyone's in Chicago, aunts, uncles, grandmas, grandpas, cousins, everyone else's in Chicago. Um, literally my sister and I'm a little sister or the only ETLA. Um, but originally I wanted to go to Julliard because again, it was just about proving myself. If I get into this big name school, then everyone knows that I'm worthy. Um, but my mom, when I was a junior, it was like, you know, have you heard about DePaul? And I was like, no. And we went on a tour to DePaul once. And then I was just like, dang, this, it was the yellow staircase for me. I was like, I was like, wow, this is just a colorful build the energy. It was just the energy.
I was like, I don't know what it is about this building, but I just feel something it's something about it. I feel like I've been here before to be honest. And yeah, it was, it was kind of surreal. I was like, I just feel like I've been here. Um, and then I taught again at the end of that year and did a workshop with Christina fluidity movement workshop. And I was just like, Whoa, like I loved that. I was like, I'm still going to Julliard though. And if not Juilliard, Carnegie Mellon, you know, I know
Hyphen ed, those would probably be a more natural fit.
Right, right. You know? And so I auditioned, um, the day I auditioned for the TTS and then I, I, I taught a third time my senior year, just for the heck of it. I'm in Chicago all the time to see my family. So we were like, let's do another tour because we just loved the tour so much. Um, and so we just loved it. And, um, and so that third tour, I was like, I just felt comfortable now. Cause I'm like, I been here, y'all have seen my face over and over again. And so I, the day I auditioned, I auditioned in Atlanta for TTS. That was like the best day of my life. Just like the day was beautiful. I auditioned, it was a beautiful audition, a beautiful space audition with Claudia and a camera night. And, um, after that, I went to the movies by myself and I snuck my little Thai food in the movies.
It was an empty theater. It was just me. I was watching marijuana. It was just a beautiful day. I didn't like, I just was like, wow, like I feel so good. And so without me knowing then it was just a sign. It was just a sign. And then when I got in, I was like, Oh, I got in. Wow. But it was still like, no, I'm still waiting for Julliard. And I'm still waiting for Carnegie. Didn't get in there and get in. Didn't get in there. And then all my friends went to Howard. So I have a lot of friends in Atlanta. A lot of my friends went to Howard. I'm in DC. And I was like, Oh, I need to go to Howard. Like all my friends are going, it's going to be dope. But Howard didn't give me any money. And TTS gave me a hundred. It was almost like God being like, Oh my God here, I'm making it clear. Like here's a hundred thousand dollars a year. And I was like, okay, fine. Um, and when I went, Oh, it's the best decision I ever made. Yeah. Yeah.
So, but, but like literally, how are you doing movement and voice on zoom?
I, you know, voices, a little voices to be too, just to be Frank. When I was at TTS in person after class, I was going to movement studios from six o'clock and I'd be in the theater school building until 2:00 AM, like all the time, just naturally. I love the work and I come to the work. I'm not one of those people who go to class, go home and then wait to go to class to practice my art again. Like, no, I do it. You know? And so when zoom stuff doesn't work, zoom doesn't work for me. You know, I create my own curriculum and I've always done that. I've I create my own, like what works for me? I'm there I'm present. But sometimes that's not always true. I'm there, but I'm not always present. You know, I I'll turn my camera off. And I'm like, this is what I'm doing today.
I'm making music. So for my voice and speech, I'm working on my song right now, as classes go, that's my finesse, you know, and I'm still growing and I'm still, so that's how I that's like the secret of like how I do it. And I also, I think in this time I advocate for myself, I speak to the theater school and I go, this is not serving me. I need to do this. And they trust me enough because I built that relationship of communication where I can just be like, Hey, this class for this teacher or this we not jelling or it's just not, um, and I'm in Atlanta, everybody's in Chicago. I already feel kind of out of the mix. I got to take a different route and they respect that and they go, okay, we just need you to turn this in by the end of the quarter. And now I have an assignment. Now I have something to work on for that I feel like helps me. So that's how I've been doing it. Like, I've just been kind of creating my own curriculum,
The plan that it's, that you're not going to go back or are they going to try to get you back in the last months?
They, so something's something. So like we have an African dance class this last quarter that we'll be doing in the quad. So I'm trying to go back to Chicago. I might just finish out my last quarter in Chicago cause I need that in my life. Uh, I just need to be in person for that. Um, and so some things that are in person and then some things are, I think it's like a hybrid. Um, I think they're playing it by of DePaul students get the vaccine on the 29th, so,
Oh, that's good. Oh, that's a relief. I mean, because that's the other thing is you have to be closed. That's the whole point of theater school is bodies on bodies on bodies. So I just like, how is this even going to work? But you know, everything is possible if you, if, if you engineer it enough. So, but now you haven't been able to do a show, uh, this, right. So you just, did you, do you did your fall, uh, quarter show. Okay. What was that?
It was our lady of key Bay ho by, uh, couturier hall.
Ooh. How cool. Tell us about your experience?
Yes. It was directed by Phyllis Griffin.
Phyllis has everything. Phyllis is literally my, some students and I were working on making. Cause I think this is our last year before retirement. We're working on doing a documentary of her last year before she retired. Yeah. It's so, yeah, she's just phenomenal. It was beautiful. I played a Bishop [inaudible] and um, I come from a Catholic high school background and um, we had factions like our lady of Lords, our lady of key Bay, ho our lady of Fatima. And so I was already familiar with Cuba and the, the story of these three girls who were seeing apparitions and I'm a spiritual person. So I was very connected to that, that story. And it was just, it was beautiful, um, to see, you know, my class was the largest black acting class that the school has ever had in the history of the Goodman school of drama. Yeah, we have. How many,
Can you give us a sense of how many people
12 in my acting class that's amazing. Isn't that crazy? Isn't that crazy? It's like, Whoa,
It was crazy that they didn't have this before. I mean, I I'm sure you've heard. We have basically from the, yeah, it was like one, it was almost like a, a system designed to have one or two people of color. I mean, as you know, and Phyllis was our only professor of color and to my knowledge, that lasted for quite some time and 12, by the way, out of a hundred, did your, did you start with a hundred in your class,
Then we have 32, 30, two of us. And so 12 out of the 32. Um, and actually what you're saying during the, our lady of key bail process, you know, when I came in, I started, um, an organization called the black artists of today, which is the first affinity group the school has seen in its history as well. I was like, Oh, he's black. And I'm from Atlanta, it's black as hell here. So I was just like, all these black people. I was like, no, we can't together. What are we doing? And we're stronger together. Um, and you know, a lot of, and so we came together and for key Bay, especially we saw a lot of the unconscious bias and a lot of the, um, aloof racism within that process. Black people learn differently. It's the truth. We, when you bring, that was, uh, that was an all black cast except for one white actor.
We were, we were warming up with a dance. We were warming up with a Jim Bay drum. That's not a process that usually people in the theater school go through. And so they, they did not respect our process is the truth of it. We're stepping into this, Rondon dialect, these Rwandan people. So we need to step into the Rwandan music. The Rondon, the, the, the, the, the culture of community. That's what African, a lot of African cultures are about is that community creating rhythm in a dance. Like we had a whole dance that they would not allow us to do. There were just a lot of things that they were like, we can't make time for that. We can't do this. And then Phyllis watching Phyllis like have to like surrender all of the kids in our class. We're like, what the is going on?
Like, hell no. Like we, and we had a whole moment where we were like, Phyllis, has this been what you've been going through all of these years? Is this what you've been going through? Like just, they don't, they just, they don't respect you. They don't allow you to, they don't respect you. They don't respect your actors. They don't respect your process. And as actors, it's almost like people always like, well, actors don't respect designers and dah, dah, dah, dah, dah. That is not who we were. It is not who we were. That it was just that, you know, cause sometimes in that moment, I just feel like production and artistry like actors, like it just clashed because production was like, well, this is my set. This is my lights. This is my sound. And we were like, okay, we don't give a about it.
We just want to make a shot. We could do this in a black box. Why are we making this about, um, flash? It's really not about that. Um, and so we weren't being heard and it took a lot of fighting. And so that the process taught me in the midst of like all of that struggle, like, okay, this is kind of what the real world is like a little bit, I'm getting a taste that like, it's not really about the story. It's about the money. It's about the production. I was like, okay, so now I'm getting an understanding because I wasn't understanding at first and we just, we weren't, we weren't seeing eye to eye. It was a lot of like, we had to have a whole discussion as an ensemble, like production team. And cause now actors and designers started to get into it because people started to disrespect Phyllis and we wasn't having it. It was just a lot of stuff. Um, but it ended up being a beautiful show. Um, in the midst of all of, through that chaos came something very beautiful and like, you know, and so at the school that like, yeah, this is something new, this is a different way of doing things. Like we have like, there's another way. And you've never seen this way cause you ain't never had this many black people in this space.
I'm thinking what it must be like for Phyllis to finally be able to do a play with an all-black cast. I mean, she may have been able to do it before this year, but I just remember our first year boss was at, before our first year that she did for colored girls or was that our first year? I think it was our first year she did for colored girls. And there was only like one or two black actors, one, one Dorcas. It was Dorcas. Right? Was that yeah. Yeah. Jordan Johnson. Yeah. So, Oh my gosh, by the way, just as an aside, if, if you are, uh, putting together a documentary about Phyllis, if we can contribute in any way, uh, especially the, the very few black actors that were in our four years, we can, they've been on this podcast and we can, um, hook you up with them. And we'll also by the way, tell, also tell Phyllis we really want her to do the podcast, but she hasn't responded to her yet.
You know, if I, if I, if I can get to her, then I'll definitely talk to her about it.
Okay, good, good, good. So that's so cool. Black artists of today. So what's the mission is the mission really just, um, trying to undo some of these conscious and unconscious bias.
Yeah. Just giving, giving black people a space within this white dominated conservatory group to, to have a vision and feel like it can be executed without resistance. That was the goal. It was really just our core values. We, uh, we value accountability, boldness performance. Um, um, what are our other values? Um, and just gall. I think that was our main thing. Just like having the balls to just be like, I want to do this thing. Cause a lot of the, the group felt like they just needed permission because a lot of the, some of the black actors that, you know, I come from a black dominated space, but a lot of the black actors come from white spaces come from white. Like their hometowns, just like they were the token they were. So like, I like, it was an awkward, there was an opportunity for us to be like, okay, like, no, we don't need anyone's permission.
You don't need anyone's permission to tell your story. Black girl, black boy, black, neither. Um, you, you CA you have freedom here. We can just, literally we would meet up in a black box and we, we, we broke up into groups, groups of four wrote pieces, the same way you would devise, like any other thing came back together. And we created a show called the monkey bar anthology, which is like this playground series of like the traumas that we all had gone through as like stuff we experienced on the playground that just really shaped us into like who we are. And it was beautiful. We put it up ourselves for the playwrights, uh, uh, show and people were telling us, they were like, wow, that's like the best show I've seen at the theater school. And we didn't have a set. We had like some blocks and each other.
And, um, also it was a space where we could open up to more than acting like we could. We create, we sang, we had singing pieces, we had spoken word pieces. We had dance pieces. We had comedic pieces all in one show. Um, because I think that just, it's not the theater schools fault, but sometimes conservatory training. When you even think about the theater school building, it's a box, it's like a, it's this boxy place. It's just this like very concrete, concrete floors. It's very like, you're doing this, you're in this show. This is where you, we want you to go this way, this it's, and it's not their fault. That's how conservatory just naturally is. So we wanted to create a space where there's not really boxes. There's a sphere that kind of just continues to expand. Um, so yeah,
Cool. Well, I, I, at the risk of sounding like, uh, one of these people who you hate, who I hate, um, the box would be preferable to the building that we had our theater school in, which is which it was an abandoned, uh, elementary school. I mean, it had its charm, but it was, uh, it was sorely needing, updating. Um, okay, so you did, so you did the couture hall show this year. What about last year? What shows did you do?
Oh, well that was the show last year, the key Bay hub. I didn't get to do any shows this year. Um, there were zoom shows, so we had zoom shows, um, this year, but we had an option. There's something that's called the student in the project endeavor that they started up because people didn't want to let people like myself refuse to do a zoom show. Um, so they were like, what do you want to do then? And so I decided I was like, I'm writing a short film, which I shoot in two weeks. Um, super exciting. Thank you so much. Um, so I, uh, a collaborator and a student in my class, Shelby, Renee, and I, we decided to, Oh, we're gonna develop this short film. And the school was like, okay, we'll give you $500 and this will be your credit. This will be your performance credit.
We're like dope. Um, and so that was our performance credit last quarter. And we submitted all of our packages. We said, even though the film won't get to you, we have the script, we can send you a zoom recording of the reading. We can send you our look, book, all that's being done. And then the next quarter, like I have a show as well that I had to cancel, but in replacement, I'm like, I'm dropping an EAP. I will give you a music video and that'll be my, that'll be my thing. Um, which honestly worked out beautifully because when I was in the building, music was something that they were definitely battling me on. Like, it was like, you know, they were just like, we need you here. It was a cohort of us because a lot of the students in CTS, we rap. And so we created a rap group and like we were fire. And so they, but they weren't really messing with it. I was just like, look, I'm hearing that y'all, aren't doing, we all collectively, like weren't doing homework. It was a mess. Cause we were in the studio every night. It was just a mess.
You weren't doing homework because you were doing the work
Well, this is our way, you know? And so they were like, well, we need to, to do this. We need you to do this because now we're seeing a pattern, it's you? Him, him and him. And I'm like, yeah, we all in the same rap group. Um, and so now, now that we are kind of remote, it's almost been liberating. It's like, okay, well now we can do it. And like make it our grade. Like that's kind of beautiful.
Standing out to me too, is that this idea of a conservatory is, um, probably really outdated and it needs to be modified and needs to be updated. And it sounds like from what I'm hearing from you is that you are one of those people that had the calling to lead the charge of sort of innovating that school, which is mind-blowing because if you ever listened to the podcast, Gina and I talk a lot about how we didn't really know who we were when we were at the theater school and I am so encouraged. And also in all that, you seem to know who the you are and what the you want to do. And that is glorious. I can't imagine it it's glorious and it's and the conservatory method and the methodology needs to change. Right. I mean, that's what I'm hearing.
Yeah, no, absolutely. It's I went in and after I came out an artist, um, as kind of what I say, like, I wouldn't, I didn't know I wanted to be an artist or a multihyphenate artist. I just knew that I kind of did these things and I, but I acted mainly am I getting actor who sayings and actor who dances an actor who raps. And when I got in the building with so many resources, I was like, wait, I have all these resources. And I can only act that don't make sense to me. You know? So yeah. What's your film about, so my film, right, it's called it's, uh, it's called sun and moon, a secret tragedy. And it's about two men. Uh, two black men who are, um, competing for compassion, who are ashamed about their sexuality. Um, one is out of the closet.
One is in the closet, um, and they share this like secret passion for one, another one is afraid to voice how he feels because he just values the friendship. Even though he knows, I desire you like I'm out of the closet, but like a gay man and a straight man can be friends it's possible. Um, and I will resist my desire to maintain a friendship with you and the others. Like I desire you to, but I'm going to beat around the Bush. I'm not going to say the truth. I want to see if I can have my cake and eat it too. Um, have this girlfriend on the side and be with you. And so it's a movement based film. A lot of the film is about how, when the spoken truth, isn't said how it manifests in bodies, you know, it's like, um, so a lot of it and it's, uh, we have a lot of contact improv kind of incorporation in it.
So it's like, if he's say like, he's like, Oh yeah, I love that. No homo though. And then there's a shot of like them next to each other and their legs intertwining though. There's still that, like, I can't say this, but like, I need to physically feel you. I need to be, I need to get as close to the truth as possible, even though I can't say it. So that's kind of what it's about. Um, and of course it's a secret tragedy because it's not really something people see because it's usually on the download. It's usually something that is not in the public eyes. So yeah.
Are you going to be filming it in Atlanta or are you going back to Chicago to do it?
We were filming in Chicago, but now we're filming it in Atlanta.
That's so cool. And so you're the star and the writer and you're directing it.
I'm not directing it. My Shelby's directing it. I, that would have been way too much writing and starring is already too much. Um, but it's been a beautiful, like the, both are going to be my debuts of being in a film, uh, and, um, screenwriting of film. And so it's been a beautiful experience. I am starring in, uh, in, uh, a friend of mine, Eric, who's a dancer is, is going to be opposite me. And so, um, it's just been such a fruitful experience because now it's like, it's not expansion. It's just like, Oh, okay. I can do this too. Let's try this out rather than like, you know, having all these expectations or like, I'm a Virgo. So sometimes I really, you know, there's that, there's that paralyzing perfectionism. Sometimes that comes up. It's just like, it needs to be this or it can't be anything. And it's like, no, it's like, it's not all or nothing. Like, yeah, I've never done this before, but I'm very capable. You're a beginner until you're not. Um, so it's just been fun to like expand and go through the process. The script has gone through like eight drafts and I'm like, Oh, this is this process. This is what it takes. Oh, wow. But it's been fun. It's been awesome.
As they say, writing is rewriting. Uh, so I'm trying to make sense of the curriculum now. I mean, you mentioned African dance, which is a class that we had, of course, a voice and speech of course movement. But did, did it, did it go the way of your first year, first of all, there are only two first-year acting teachers.
Mm, no, they did. They definitely, they change it every year now to be quite honest. Um, once I think once our class came in, we just shut up and they were like, okay, we don't know what to do with y'all. And then the next class came and they were a little anxious. They were like, okay, let's switch it up again. Then the next class, they were like, Oh my God, like, what are we like? Literally the theater school was in a cluster, right now they don't know really what to do. And they're starting to figure it out, anti-racism work and all this stuff. So the curriculum is very it's in this like metamorphosis period right now. Um, the, the class that comes to like this next freshmen class, they're a little bit blessed because I think they're figuring out a concrete, like, okay, this is how we should do it now. But um, to me, it should always be that thing to me, it should always be how you
Be always responding to the, to the students. I mean, that, that's, that's our big takeaway in thinking about this process that we went through and didn't know ourselves is, um, we didn't know how to advocate for ourselves. We didn't even know what we didn't know. We didn't know what we were missing. Um, and we certainly didn't possess the ability to say what you've referenced saying, this isn't working for me, whatever. I'm not saying it's wrong. I'm not saying what you're doing is wrong. I'm just saying for me, it isn't working and I am paying a lot of money to go to school here. So maybe you should figure out a way for it to work for me. I mean, that was just, and it's a cultural thing too. I mean, like in our generation was just completely, I think, unused to say, especially women completely unused to saying, you know, advocating for ourselves in that, in that way, which is sad, but true.
Um, uh, what's going to ask you a question. I can ask you a question. Oh yeah. Go. So now that you're, you're, you're in Atlanta right now, and then you're, you're planning to go back to Chicago. What's what's the deal on how I'm just so curious on how you are your take on the whole showcased experience and how in your, in your, um, yeah. What is your take on that? Because that's such a big part of the fourth year. We've talked to so many people through the year. Okay. So tell us about your whole philosophy beyond that showcase.
Yeah. I mean, yeah. I want to answer your questions sometimes I can just word vomit
[inaudible].
So to me, it's the same philosophy that I share about zoom plays and digital, like, no one's watching it. Right. That's how I feel. No, one's watching it. Like just let's be real. Um, no, one's about to go on the theater school website and click through all the exam kids and watch eight minutes. No, one's doing that. Um, innovate and maybe I'm being a little pessimistic. I see myself being a realist in it though. I don't want to do that. Um, so
I don't know, but maybe, maybe someone out there,
There couldn't be me though, you know? But like, I think that through that, I love, I love traveling. I just love going to different places. I traveled my whole life. Both of my grandmothers worked for United airlines flights around my blood. Um, and so I thought, but you know, what's so crazy. Freshman year I came in, you know, everyone's talking about showcase. It's like, Oh, I'm coming to theater school because in the fourth year we get to showcase and the showcase gets me an agent. And then I'll launch me my freshman year. I knew, I was like, how are you putting all that pressure on showcase? I'm just not doing it. I'm not, I, I refuse to be disappointed because I get, you know, expectations lead to disappointment. And so sometimes, and so I was like, a lot of my classmates put all this expectation on this thing. And to me, I was like, I just want to go to LA and kick it. I want to go to New York and kick it. I'm not worried about an agent that's going to work itself out. You know? And so now the way that it's working, yeah. I have a partner, we have a scene, I have a solo thing, but my heart's not in it because also I already have representation. God is good. Uh, I've recently just signed with Stewart talent in Chicago. Congratulations. Thank you. And so it's also like, now I'm like,
Well, shoot. Like,
I mean, you know, it's kind of just too, and my partner has representation. She signed by gray. And so we're both in it kind of like, and also just the real, the reality of it is
I just feel, it has been more difficult. A lot of my white peers had their content or seep scenes ready it's because it's like, that's the content we've been doing throughout the four years is you are content and you feel like your voice. You've gotten to say what you need to say. I was a Rwandan I'm from Atlanta. I have two. So it's been a little more difficult for me to find a script that I feel like represents what I have to say. Um, so through that process, my partner and I, we were like, can we make an original piece? Like we just have so much more to present than Mike. And it's like, we fell into, we did like Tarell, Alvin McCraney. We found this. And it's like, those pieces are cool, but like, we're just on this cutting edge of like new work that we aren't really in tune with because the theater school is not in tune with it.
So we don't have the scripts because they don't have the scripts. So for showcase, it's just been this kind of like, okay, we know you think we're great, but like, we don't, you want us to choose this thing from these shows or these plays that just really don't represent us. Um, and so it's been kind of difficult to like find some things. And, but both my partner and I, we just got so overwhelmed and stressed out with it. Cause all of us are now looking forward. We're like, okay, post-graduation what is going to be the, so like we just settled. We were like, let's just do this little script for the showcase. Like, and have it be there. We signed already. It's cool. Like let's just do it. So it's that sucks. That breaks my heart, that we don't see it as something that's this pivotal moment. Cause it's theater school. That's like your Herat, that's your closure. Um, but to me, I was, I just looked forward to traveling with my class to New York and LA, like that was the fun, that was what was going to be in it for me, just that experience of traveling with your class. Um, and having that taken away, men, heart heartbreaking. Um, but you know, we, we, we, we make it through, we're finding a way
I feel like it is. So, um, the fact that you weren't placing so much pressure on the showcase is a huge gift because everyone, we talked to most people and myself included my showcase experience was a nightmare, a nightmare because I put so much pressure on myself and then self-sabotage, it was just were. So the idea that what I get from you is that you're focused on the work, doing the work, making the art versus getting somewhere. And it, it it's it's so it's in my 45 year old brain. I'm like, that's so going to serve you. That's so gonna serve you keep returning to the work and not the outcome of will someone love me when I stand up here and do this piece from whoever wrote it, you know? Oh, it's my,
Yeah. And can I speak to in, like we were talking about earlier, like it took my spiritual awakening too. Like I had an idea of that my freshman year. I was like I said, I've always been connected to spirit, but like when the pandemic happened, everything just says like all the things that were like unaligned became like, okay, like get aligned because there were still, I have, so I have self-sabotage tendencies as well, especially when I focus when I overthink it, when I just, when I'm in my head so much. And like, I truly think a lot of actors, we have to really be honest with ourselves about why we do what we do. And it's like, it's okay for you to say, I want to be famous. That is okay to be, that was my reason, but it's not sustainable. It's not sustainable. It's like, I just think transparency is key.
And I think a lot of times actors, we get into this, like I want to change the world with my Aria, blah, blah, blah. Okay. What is it? What do you really want? You want the applause? Okay, cool. That's what your focus is on. Now we do, you can still do this thing, but let's shift the focus and see if it still works. You know? So I feel like a lot of actors, a lot of times we got self-worth issues that throughout I've worked with so many artists and actors, we, I, I don't, I've met so many people. And what we share is like an anxiety about life, a self, like this, like void avoid that we're trying to fill this self-worth issue. And I'm like, that needs to be to me in curriculum a little bit, because we got a lot of you. We have a lot of broken artists.
I was a broken artist and I had to placement, literally glue myself together. And cause I don't think, you know, it's so much more fruitful when you're whole and you can come to the work. Then when the work makes you whole, I guess like, Oh my God, it's just so much more fruitful. And so, um, sometimes, um, I'm now in a place where like, because I was separated from all my Chicago friends and I was forced to be in alone mode and hermit mode. I go back to Chicago and I still see my friends kind of squirming a little bit like, Oh, like, cause their self-worth is still like a little like, and now I'm like, I don't, I don't know. Like you just, you got to love yourself. You just got to love yourself and you gotta trust. You know, you have to it's imperative.
And the thing that you said about pursuing fame, not being sustainable, not only is it not sustainable, but you have zero control over whether or not you're famous. You only have control over whether or not you're doing something that may or may not lead to you being famous down the line. And if you achieve fame and you don't have self self-worth, that is a recipe for early substance abuse problems. Yeah. Depression, anxiety, the whole, the whole kit and caboodle. So I have kind of a dumb question nowadays, if like you're signed with a Chicago agency, but does that mean you're planning to stay in Chicago or are you going to be kind of all over the place depending on where the work is?
Yeah. So I see myself and they told me that Stewart is in Chicago, Atlanta, LA in New York. And so we've kind of discussed because I think I want to stay in Atlanta. Um, and cause you know, everything's here, everything's filming here. Um, it's home. The weather's great. I just love Atlanta. Um, so I feel like it would be a good place for me to really start my stuff for the things that I want to do. Um, Chicago shoots maybe like seven shows there, you know, seven, eight, you know? And so we discussed, they were like, yeah, well, once we signed, we can introduce you to the office down there. But also we're going to find stuff for you everywhere. And they're like, we were going to look into Atlanta, LA Australia. And if we feel like you're good for it, we'll send it to you.
So they, we have, we have an understanding of, and I also have flight benefits. Like I said, both my grandmothers were to United so I can fly. Like literally if they texted me today and it was like being in Chicago, not only do I have a free flight, but I got somewhere to stay, I'll stay with my grandma. I don't have to pay for it. So, um, it's truly a blessing. God really has worked in my, um, and you know, um, moving on to this next chapter, like that's something that I think I, like I said, I love traveling. I don't mind, I love the plane. I will hop on, hop off. I'll I'll do it. Um, so they're open to that. They love that. I love that. Um, so I'm excited to see where it goes.
It's really so lovely to talk to somebody who's right in the thick of it. And your energy is infectious. And I have no doubt that you have so much to offer the world where can people find you?
Absolutely. They can follow me on Instagram at Justin, J U S S T E N as well as my YouTube, uh, Justin Ross, J U S T E N R O S S. But truly Instagram is the best way. If you go to Instagram as a link in my bio, there's a link treats all of my content, all of my Apple music stuff, all my Spotify stuff.
Thank you so much for doing this is fantastic. If you liked what you heard today, please give us a positive five star review and subscribe and tell your friends. I survived. Theater school is an undeniable ink production. Jen Bosworth, Ramirez and Gina Polizzi are the co-hosts. This episode was produced, edited and sound mixed by Gina [inaudible] for more information about this podcast or other goings on of undeniable, Inc. Please visit our website@undeniablewriters.com. You can also follow us on Facebook, Instagram, and Twitter. Thank you.