Welcome to Speak the Truth, a podcast devoted to giving biblical truth for educating, equipping, and encouraging the individual and local church in counseling and discipleship. Hello. Hello. Hello. We are still on the road.

I'm excited about this podcast. I know I say that on every podcast, but I'm definitely excited about this podcast because I had the opportunity to meet a new brother who's doing some amazing things. I've got Kique Torres. Kique, how are doing?

Happy to be here, bro, to connect with you and, like, to be part of this effort that you guys are doing of bringing real conversation with people that are becoming friends. And we're sharing the same goal and heart for doing this the right way.

Yes. Kike, we're excited to have you because what we wanted to obviously talk about as we're here at the biblical counseling coalition global summit is that we wanted to talk about missions and highlight certain people that are doing certain particular works in different parts of the world. And you specifically are apparently, according to everyone that I talked to and then seeing you teach in in conversations is that you are a gift of energy to the church and empowering people, encouraging people, and equipping people. And so I just wanted to bring you on to just talk about your context of ministry, maybe provide a little bit of history Okay. Of what you've been doing and where you are and then, like, your focus, the ministry that you're part of, the local church focus that you have within that ministry, and just the global presence and all the church planning things that you're doing.

Sure. By the grace of God, I have been pastoring for the last fifteen years. I was called by God and saved twenty two years

ago now. Twenty two years ago.

Half of my life in Christ have been in the biblical counseling to when God called me first, obviously to his presence, and we just talk about abiding in him. From that, he called me my first call is to evangelist, so I see myself like a pastor who evangelize or an evangelist pastor. That's why I connect so much with the biblical counseling for the sole care of people. And then God called me to men's ministry. I have a Born in For Men.

I truly believe what the stats says that when men get into the gospel, it is so much easier that a family follow him. And in 2009, God called me to pastoral ministry. I wasn't pursuing that. Actually the reference or the yes, the prototype that I have as pastors wasn't an attractive kind of career or a pursuit that I it was, at least in Latin America, boring guys, square minded, with miserable wives, kids that learn some S. I was like, no thanks, I want to be a church member that bless other people.

But when God called me, I have my biggest part of my DNA is Calvary Chapel. This kind of hippie background revival that God did in the sixties.

Yeah.

So I appreciate God allowing me to connect with that in a way that I became aware that God can use you where you are with the assets that you have and your story. Not based on your credentials or your academic efforts, but just by his grace. God called me to pastor this church in Queretaro, Mexico at the center of the country called Horizonte. I come from Horizon. And it was in a bad situation.

It was 120 in a good Sunday. And God gave me a basic three playbook. Get the church back to the Bible. Evangelize the church because they believe what they're not. And impact your community for my glory.

That was what God told me. And I played those plays. I'm not a church guy, I try to be obedient. And God saw blessing. By the grace of God, we are right now in the city for churches that we have with approximately like more than 2,000 adults and we planted 13 churches, adopted under nine.

And the last one in like international that we have is one in McAllen that I'm moving for to help.

Yay, McAllen, Texas. Where we are.

I'm gonna be a Texan for a while. We planned a church three years ago there and just this year we planned a church in Panama. That's really a trophy of grace because I have been praying for Panama for eight years. Wow. So for me, it's a strategic place that connects North America to South America.

And so we, yeah, we have a heart for church planting. Our vision is simple, like fellowship with Christ and get more people in fellowship with Him. From that we want, our vision in Spanish is like it is more Christ in more in our kind of lives, in more people and in more places. So that's why we plan churches. I see churches as a tool that God uses to expand his kingdom and churches care for people.

So that's where Biblical counseling get into the equation.

Nice. So you're a church planting church? Yes. And within those 10 churches that you planted, are most of them outside of Panama? Are most of them in Mexico?

Yeah. We have actually, all of them are in Mexico, just apart from Costa Rica, Panama, and Texas. That's the only three that we have.

Oh, so you're in Costa Rica?

Yes. We have church in San Jose.

Do you have a vision or a heart for the Dominican Republic? The Dominican Republic,

there are so many great churches there.

So it's like, why go do that?

That I have good friends like Miguel and Suhel and many other guys that I truly respect and admire. So for me, it won't make any sense to go to a place that they have such a great preachers

and teachers.

But I love, I love the R. For actually in Biblical counseling, I was talking to Brad Hamburg yesterday. I think The R is the most, the biggest impacted country with biblical counseling in Latin America because of the training that they moved there and people that trained from there in America. So, yes. That's a blessing.

They don't at least I don't see a need of a church there.

Yeah. You got the attitude of Paul. I don't need to go build on top of what other people are doing. Right. Yeah.

Nice. That's good. That's good. Man, so in in all of that though, and I appreciate you sharing your past and your heart for that when you mentioned men's ministry. And so how do you implement biblical counseling when it comes to the church planning process?

So if you were to take the missionary and you're going in and you're preaching the gospel and you are equipping a pastor or a small team to go plan a church in Mexico or even Panama. How did you how do you do the equipping piece? Obviously, there's the theological training. There's the preaching, the cup the public ministry of the word. So how are you using biblical counseling as an equipping leadership development piece for pastors so that's a part of the DNA when you plant a church?

That's a great question, Mike. The way I do it is as part of the DNA that we reproduce more than a class or an asset that we get into your weapons. For example, just the last case internationally we planned in Panama this January, the pastor's wife came into our conference twenty twenty one. They belonged to a four four square church. I don't know how to say it in English.

In Spanish, ilesa quadrangular. Four square denomination.

I heard angular. Like angle. Okay.

Yeah. See, these are four kind of whatever denomination. And they have a sheep pastor, a lady that was a pastor. And she started realizing the doctrines of the Bible and the doctrines of grace, and she come back really messed up to her husband. Hey, we're doing things wrong.

This is not what the Bible says.

I shouldn't be preaching.

Yes. Was an older lady that was a pastor. He was in youth ministry and she was doing the establishment with young ladies. So, she started getting trained with us. She has a background from psychology.

She's an engineer and then psychology, and she's a sexologist. And his husband, he's one of my best friends right now, he even came to me when he started new about me because we mess his wife around. Like on theology and like church doing there. So for a year he wasn't even wanting her to come back to our conference. But two years ago she went back and we talked and I started praying for him and for them.

So they were willing to connect and we started a counseling process on how to discern if that's the right church for you guys and move if that's the case in the right way. And by the mercy of God, when God confirmed that they need to move, that's the only two examples that I have that they, from a toxic background, they leave the church with a blessing, like their chief pastor recognized the calling on him and allowed him to live in good terms. And that's a miracle in our context. So because they have been trained by us in counseling, he came to our pastors and things, and they have this kind of heart for caring. We just invite them for a season with us to walk the house, do family with us, get the heart of how we have this kind of, I don't know, value.

Like we seek God's face, prayer, we preach the Bible, and we care one each other with the Bible. When that like that match with them and they are start doing the same there, and it is great that their rent, we help them up as for a church plan for the beginning, the deposit for the rent and like chairs, whatever.

Yeah.

And it is the fastest church that they become independent at Mount Surplanet in January. In July, they said, we don't need any more support. We want to partner with you guys on what you're doing. So that's like, they rent a place for 8,100 people and they're now considering two services. And just because the pastor is a great Bible preacher and he has a heart for caring for men and families.

So, it is not we have a department of counseling or we are doing biblical counseling center as we already have, but that's a result of a culture of care for one to each other in Christ.

So in all of that, and I appreciate that example. So when you're in your context, in your particular church, and I forgot how you pronounce it in Spanish. I like to hear other tongues. What was it in Spanish?

Horizonte, the church name?

Yeah. Yeah. Your church that's doing

the church planning. Yeah. Horizonte.

Okay.

Or the other church, the fellowship of churches is Christ is better.

Okay. So Christ is better. So that's the church planning arm? Yes. Okay.

So in in doing all of that, you mentioned it's just it's culturally there, this one anothering. Right? Alright. So we're gonna we're gonna take a little detour really quick. Just a cultural detour.

Right? Because I've spent some time in Zimbabwe last few years and doing pastor's conference and going in and doing equipping and teaching. And I noticed just observably, like, a difference in culture when it comes to the people because they legitimately need each other.

And that's the thing that you're saying is because the difference between American and Latin Americans is that Americans tends to be goal oriented, the way I put it. Yeah. And Latin America, we are relationship oriented. So talking about mutual care and do fellowship one to each other, for us is duh.

Yeah. Like, you don't need a training program to It's do just that's because we do. It's part

of the yeah. We need to do that based the bible.

You're not using Garrett Higbee's t one training because you don't need to teach the people to do what's inherently in them that they're already doing culturally.

Yeah, that's the way that it is so easy for us to just bring the, not the awareness, but just the structure of healthy soul care. Yeah. Because they're already doing that, but unhealthy. Yeah. With their own advice or sharing fields or sorry, reels or memes or whatever.

Okay. Let's do this with the bible and rejoice on that.

Yeah. So the mutual care is there, but then so the focus is then just helping them more at the biblical level to where they're they're not just opinions that are, like, relationally driven. They're biblically driven, relationally focused, if I can put it

that No. That that's the right way to put it. The only thing that we, for example, implement based on what we learned from America is these crisis scenarios. We learned, example, when Garrett was in harvest, developed these SOS that we trained

Severity, ownership, support.

And And that really helped them if they have big cases.

That was a huge tool to just implement that was yeah.

Yes. Like the leader of the small group is like, okay, I cannot handle this alone. I need pastors or deacons.

They're like six or seven right now, so I need you all to step in. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's good.

Alright. Cool. So you guys use that as equipping pieces for men and women that are feeling called to go plant a church. Yep. And so that's so you use the transform material from soul care consulting.

And then what about like certification in counseling?

We we are just, for example, I'm the first Mexican certified by ACBC, as we mentioned, and we are two people. No, like Mexicans, two. There's American missionaries about Mexicans, like natives, two people. And you think, Mike, the thing that we're trying to and fighting to avoid, because it's a natural tendency to pursue these credentials as a way to, I'm worthy to serve or I'm feel comfortable of. And that's a good thing to pursue if you don't have any education or you don't have any academic structure But upon since two years ago, I'm trying to reimagine the way we do training in a way that we present not the counseling thing as a career that you pursue, but the heart that you are equipped to practice.

Yeah, it is. I have two pastors that are in the process for certification, but again, it is for many of them so long and so expensive. And we don't, we have the books that the Americans have for readings. We are just getting into this season of blessing of having videos of observation and like these kind of resources for us in our languages that for some, I dream with counseling observation videos in Spanish for Latin context, from Latin context to Latin context. But we don't have many people certified already and we are trying to equip them and leave them, not for the glory of the credential, but to have more people equipped to teach with the credentials that we are aware of how you do things and we can back up that, not your counselor.

Because in Latin America, that's a crazy and sad thing that you read a book and you become an expert. And you can do a conference about that with no one kind of overseeing you or even you having any fruit of that book in your life, you become an expert or influencer on that. So based on that, see value on this certification process, but we just want it as a way that, Hey, we can back up that you are doing the right things because we see you and we know you and we share the same values and praise the Lord of what you're doing in that area that you're just trying to be faithful faithful.

Yeah. So in that, then you become the extension of those letters because like you mentioned, you're certified. And so you know what's required and so you can teach them. You don't need the letters because in your context, they're not concerned about the letters.

No. They no one nobody will ask you, do you have a certification for holding? Nobody. Never in Latin America.

Yeah. And really the certification is rightly applying God's word.

Yep.

Right?

Yep.

And okay. That's very cool. Very cool. So you recently just planted in Panama. And so what are the next areas that you're focusing on or are you completely set out?

As I told you, I'm moving to McAllen, Texas to have the church we planned and care. You can pray for us because it is a whole different context to live in Latin America than to live in America, even financially. But I truly love for that church to become the sending hub for Hispanic leaders for America. And we pray to keep doing, my heart is for Latin America. So next year we're planting a church in South Of Mexico City.

And we already have a church in of Northwest Of Mexico City. So we're it's a 25,000,000 people city. We're planting a church South Of Mexico City. And I'm on this I'm probably taking this advantage of this season in Texas to really set a time to pray and plan to develop a healthy way of caring for the pastors. We have, as I mentioned, 13 churches plus 109 that we adopted, so it's like 22, 20 I'm on this position that I'm able to walk with pastors and allow them to know that they're not pastors and invite them to leave pastoral ministry and be part of a healthy church that cares for them.

And bless that church. I have these three cases. That is: Roger carrying bees by accident. Someone put you there, you don't have the gifts and you don't have the stamina and you don't have the call. Be a blessing into a on the authority of a godly man that you can bless with your talents and to really equip and encourage the one that they are doing things right and they are called by God.

But I'm I feel that I will, we're in this lack of a system of care for many of them. We are so organic on the way that every quarter I connect with them in their marriages. They know that I'm one message at a distance from them to have a Zoom call or a FaceTime to be there or even travel. But I pray for this way that we can develop this systematic care that you can rejoice and enjoy if you want. If you don't, it is good.

We're here for you.

Yeah.

But I would love to increase the awareness in my people that they are loved and care. And we are even for example, from Send Network that Vance Pittman is one of my mentors. We learn from this crazy simple thing that when it is a pastor's birthday to send him an Amazon gift card that honoring and encouraging them like, Hey, congratulations. We love you as a fellowship. Get whatever you want.

I'm praying for next year to do that for the wives, pastoral wives. And I would love to have that for the kids. Hey, thank you for allowing your dad to do ministry with

us. That's intentionality. Yes. Yeah. And the affirmation of we love you, we care for you.

And here's just a gesture of that.

I, I, that's a gesture. Dream to develop a systematic way of loving from the right heart. Yeah. For them to be encouraged that they're not alone and they're part of a fellowship that love them.

That's good. Yep. All right. Kike. So in all of that, let's say your listeners are hearing this and they want to get involved.

How can they support you prayerfully, financially? What would be a way for them to care for and get involved in what you're doing?

Thank you, Mike. On social media, I'm Pastoresquique. Like it's Pastoresquique. And

Do I have to do I have to add do you like put the extra letters the way that it rolls off your tongue?

Probably. Probably. That's funny. It is p a p a s t o r r e s k I k e. There's now three

or four r's over.

Yes. It's a Mexican torres. But you say it right, so I'm so proud of your Latin accent. So anyway and, like, christosmejor.com our website that you can subscribe, get monthly videos of reports of thanksgiving and prayer opportunities. I'm blessed that when I come to The States, always every church that I go, there have some people from Mexico or Panama or Latin America that are blessed just to be aware that God is listening to their prayers like, let's allow my people in my country to have someone or something that I experienced here in America.

So that's a way that they can subscribe, have a monthly kind of video celebrating what God is doing in the, in many churches that we have. And there they can be, I was like pray or send, send funds or send themselves. Go and visit and do the work of ministry. Again, I love the word koinonia on this, giving yourself in the life of others and others into your life. And that's what I rejoice of, being just an extension of what I'm being blessed in our language in the Spanish world.

Oh, that's good. Appreciate you sharing that. Thank you for stopping by talking with me, and it was a pleasure to get to to meet you for the first time here. Hopefully, that we see each other more as the years go. And, hopefully, I don't know, maybe I'll be in Doctor or maybe I'll be over in McAllen or maybe I'll be somewhere where you are, where you're among the 10 churches.

I haven't done anything in Mexico yet.

So You we will be in the same state right now. You can go down for far, but Yeah. We we I I became aware that there's Isla Del Padre or San Pedro Island, something like that.

Oh, San Pedro?

San Pedro Island. Yeah. That is a beach place to go. So it is I I use, like, one hour forty five minutes from. Oh, yeah.

So you can come and

Oh, yeah. I remember going through McAllen area when Sean and I went down there years ago. We went down to Sao Padre.

Yeah. Because that's the route to get it. So yes, you're more than welcome there. And thank you, Mike, for what you and your wife are doing. I truly appreciate the heart and the humbleness and the, yeah.

Desire for make things right with excellence and love. I truly appreciate that.

No. I appreciate it. Well, thank you for being with us. Thank you guys for listening, and we'll see you guys next time.