WEBVTT NOTE This file was generated by Descript 00:00:00.210 --> 00:00:02.110 Rupert Isaacson: Welcome to Equine Assisted World. 00:00:02.140 --> 00:00:05.260 I'm your host, Rupert Isaacson, New York Times best selling 00:00:05.280 --> 00:00:08.330 author of The Horse Boy, The Long Ride Home, and The Healing Land. 00:00:08.379 --> 00:00:11.889 Before I jump in with today's guest, I just want to say a huge 00:00:12.000 --> 00:00:15.139 thank you to you, our audience, for helping to make this happen. 00:00:15.229 --> 00:00:15.999 I have a request. 00:00:16.520 --> 00:00:22.009 If you like what we do, please like, subscribe, tell a friend. 00:00:22.579 --> 00:00:24.319 It really helps us get this work done. 00:00:24.529 --> 00:00:27.299 As you might know from my books, I'm an autism dad. 00:00:27.805 --> 00:00:30.645 And over the last 20 years, we've developed several 00:00:31.345 --> 00:00:35.285 equine assisted, neuroscience backed certification programs. 00:00:35.884 --> 00:00:38.485 If you'd like to find out more about them, go to newtrailslearning. 00:00:40.664 --> 00:00:40.814 com. 00:00:41.065 --> 00:00:43.665 So without further ado, let's meet today's guest. 00:00:44.419 --> 00:00:46.980 Welcome back to Equine Assisted World. 00:00:47.039 --> 00:00:49.529 Today, I've got Robin Hood. 00:00:50.859 --> 00:00:52.889 That sounds anachronistic, perhaps. 00:00:52.889 --> 00:00:55.899 I don't mean a man in tights with a longbow on his back. 00:00:56.209 --> 00:01:02.059 I mean, the amazing sister of the amazing Linda Tellington Jones. 00:01:02.609 --> 00:01:07.599 Those of you who know about T Touch the Linda Tellington Jones method of 00:01:08.019 --> 00:01:19.654 using touch to ameliorate bond with gosh reach and Help with any kind of 00:01:19.654 --> 00:01:23.524 horse training And people and dogs and so anyone who doesn't know about 00:01:23.524 --> 00:01:29.254 t touch go and type it into google now t touch It's a wonderful thing. 00:01:29.304 --> 00:01:32.934 We've been you know Fans of it and practicing it on our own horses and each 00:01:32.934 --> 00:01:35.224 other and our dogs for over a decade. 00:01:35.324 --> 00:01:40.229 And Linda Tunnington Jones, of course, is a legend within the horse community 00:01:40.229 --> 00:01:43.459 and was one of the first people to bring this idea of healing through 00:01:43.459 --> 00:01:44.959 horses into the mainstream, really. 00:01:46.239 --> 00:01:49.649 Not as many people know about her younger sister. 00:01:50.249 --> 00:01:55.509 And Robin and Linda have been working together for many, many, many years. 00:01:55.510 --> 00:02:02.314 And A lot of the systemization behind the T Touch method one could 00:02:02.314 --> 00:02:06.744 say has, you know, come thanks to this wonderful relationship between 00:02:06.744 --> 00:02:08.294 the sisters and Robin's input. 00:02:08.754 --> 00:02:12.064 So I wanted to, I wanted to not just talk to Linda. 00:02:12.604 --> 00:02:16.394 If you haven't heard our two podcasts with Linda, one on Live Free, Ride 00:02:16.394 --> 00:02:20.444 Free, and one here on Equine Assisted World, go click on those links now. 00:02:20.904 --> 00:02:23.614 But today I want to go a little deeper into T Touch with Robin. 00:02:24.104 --> 00:02:30.064 And look at what are the things that we as equine practitioners need to know. 00:02:30.064 --> 00:02:34.754 What can we benefit from in terms of how we approach, 00:02:34.804 --> 00:02:36.754 touch, interact with our horses? 00:02:37.154 --> 00:02:41.934 How our clients do not just with our horses, but the other social animals 00:02:41.934 --> 00:02:44.644 that we have and with each other, we being social animals as well. 00:02:45.194 --> 00:02:50.324 There's a lot that we can glean from mentors like Robin. 00:02:50.874 --> 00:02:57.224 So even though many of us, of course, hold the well being of the equines we 00:02:57.224 --> 00:03:02.004 work with, you know, in the highest of priorities, because we hold them in 00:03:02.004 --> 00:03:06.584 that priority, we need to talk to people like Robin and learn as much as we can. 00:03:06.584 --> 00:03:08.964 So Robin, thanks so much for coming on the show. 00:03:09.264 --> 00:03:13.114 And please tell us who you are and what is T Touch? 00:03:13.114 --> 00:03:13.874 What's it all about? 00:03:15.504 --> 00:03:17.684 Robyn Hood: That's always a 64, 000 question. 00:03:17.684 --> 00:03:18.784 You know, what is T Touch? 00:03:19.214 --> 00:03:20.834 So, first of all, it's interesting. 00:03:21.889 --> 00:03:26.259 Of course, our family name is Hood and Linda named me actually, I was the second 00:03:26.259 --> 00:03:30.169 last to be born and she came home and said, Oh, you have to name this one Robin. 00:03:30.599 --> 00:03:33.219 The funny thing is our mother's name was Marion. 00:03:33.299 --> 00:03:34.269 So we had made Marion 00:03:34.499 --> 00:03:35.039 and 00:03:35.549 --> 00:03:36.719 Robyn Hood: I have a brother named John. 00:03:36.929 --> 00:03:39.049 So we have little John and made Marion. 00:03:39.049 --> 00:03:43.739 And when I was a child, I used to do a lot of. 00:03:43.795 --> 00:03:45.086 And I'm a horse showman. 00:03:45.086 --> 00:03:47.816 I used to ride two horses from other people. 00:03:47.816 --> 00:03:50.356 And one was called fire tech and one was called little John. 00:03:50.366 --> 00:03:52.786 So here comes Robin Hood riding for your deck. 00:03:52.786 --> 00:03:54.636 So anyway, that was a good laugh for people. 00:03:55.126 --> 00:03:56.926 So I've kind of grown up with that. 00:03:56.976 --> 00:03:59.656 And, and, you know, it was a little tricky when I was younger, but when 00:03:59.656 --> 00:04:04.206 I got married, I chose to keep my own name and I've had the opportunity, you 00:04:04.216 --> 00:04:06.876 know, Linda's 14 years older than I am. 00:04:06.876 --> 00:04:10.836 And I spent a lot of time when I was young, before I was on 00:04:10.836 --> 00:04:11.986 a horse, before I could walk. 00:04:12.716 --> 00:04:15.846 When I could walk, she would, like, throw me on a horse bareback and, 00:04:16.576 --> 00:04:19.856 you know, slap them on the butt so I'd get cantered into the stable. 00:04:19.856 --> 00:04:22.846 My mother was, of course, horrified, but, you know, it's the way it was. 00:04:22.846 --> 00:04:24.986 And then Linda left when I was three. 00:04:25.016 --> 00:04:26.316 She moved to California. 00:04:26.316 --> 00:04:27.826 That was quite hard for me. 00:04:28.286 --> 00:04:32.756 And then I started to go to work with her when I was nine. 00:04:32.966 --> 00:04:38.206 And I got, would go in the summers and fly to California by myself, which, 00:04:38.206 --> 00:04:39.686 you know, back in the day, 1959, 00:04:42.156 --> 00:04:45.626 60 was pretty unusual, especially crossing the border. 00:04:46.456 --> 00:04:47.356 And I. 00:04:47.986 --> 00:04:52.856 I am, I'm so lucky to have have Linda and the thing is, I don't want to be Linda. 00:04:52.946 --> 00:04:55.576 And I think that's actually why our relationship works. 00:04:55.576 --> 00:04:59.346 I always make this kind of joke and it's not that, you know, she's 00:04:59.356 --> 00:05:02.276 kind of the show horse and I'm the workforce and that doesn't mean 00:05:02.276 --> 00:05:06.486 she doesn't work, but I really like kind of being behind the scenes and 00:05:06.756 --> 00:05:08.396 and supporting what she's doing. 00:05:08.396 --> 00:05:09.016 And sometimes. 00:05:09.656 --> 00:05:15.956 redirecting her a little bit because she has a lot of ideas that were at 00:05:15.956 --> 00:05:17.856 least 20 years ahead of her time. 00:05:18.536 --> 00:05:22.016 And, you know, that's the good news and the bad news, you 00:05:22.016 --> 00:05:23.406 know, like, like everything. 00:05:23.416 --> 00:05:32.066 And so, I did a newsletter for, I started in 83, I think, and I did it till 2017. 00:05:32.616 --> 00:05:37.456 Four times a year and about the method and about Linda's travels, which were, I 00:05:37.456 --> 00:05:40.256 mean, incredibly, incredibly interesting. 00:05:40.736 --> 00:05:44.916 And so I, I really, I love this work. 00:05:44.916 --> 00:05:49.336 I love being able to connect with people and their animals, because. 00:05:50.486 --> 00:05:54.416 If we, if we can't relate to the people, it's hard to 00:05:54.416 --> 00:05:56.386 actually have them help their. 00:05:56.761 --> 00:05:57.501 Animals. 00:05:57.581 --> 00:06:02.821 And so it's it for me, learning is constantly like, I believe that we 00:06:02.821 --> 00:06:04.911 can always make something better. 00:06:04.921 --> 00:06:09.431 There's it's not about something is, you know, it has to be like this. 00:06:09.671 --> 00:06:12.851 I think we need a framework of what what I've kind of tried 00:06:12.851 --> 00:06:14.871 to do is make a baseline. 00:06:14.971 --> 00:06:19.001 And then I often say to people that this work is written in sand 00:06:19.011 --> 00:06:20.371 rather than written in stone. 00:06:21.681 --> 00:06:25.411 And I think that it allows people that they learn the basic techniques 00:06:25.411 --> 00:06:28.591 and then they can use that then they can use their intuition or the 00:06:28.591 --> 00:06:31.311 feeling and and, and carry on with it. 00:06:31.321 --> 00:06:35.881 So that's where I think that's kind of the role that I play. 00:06:36.856 --> 00:06:37.986 that I play with Linda. 00:06:39.786 --> 00:06:41.386 Rupert Isaacson: What is T Touch exactly? 00:06:42.656 --> 00:06:44.956 Robyn Hood: So, T Touch, there, there's the question. 00:06:45.256 --> 00:06:49.556 So, I, and I, I actually really prefer in Europe, they call 00:06:49.556 --> 00:06:50.906 it more the Tellington method, 00:06:51.176 --> 00:06:51.206 and 00:06:51.206 --> 00:06:55.096 Robyn Hood: the, because the misnomer is that it's only about touch. 00:06:55.376 --> 00:07:01.296 So, T Touch is basically a, a gentle way of communicating with animals and with 00:07:01.306 --> 00:07:07.221 interacting with animals that is What I say low stress because every time we do 00:07:07.221 --> 00:07:10.891 anything different, there's a certain amount of stress, but it's low stress and 00:07:10.891 --> 00:07:14.021 it's really considering how animals learn. 00:07:14.031 --> 00:07:18.051 And that's our interest is, is in looking at both the learning. 00:07:18.051 --> 00:07:20.161 So we have different components. 00:07:20.461 --> 00:07:23.191 There's the observation, which you do. 00:07:23.531 --> 00:07:26.331 Ideally, you're doing all the time with your animal, you know, 00:07:26.581 --> 00:07:29.351 and what we're looking for is small things, not big things. 00:07:29.611 --> 00:07:31.461 We don't want to wait until they shout at us. 00:07:31.461 --> 00:07:33.051 We'd rather listen to their whispers. 00:07:33.651 --> 00:07:36.841 And, and then of course, there's the body of work known as the Tellington 00:07:36.851 --> 00:07:42.851 T Touch, which is a gentle form of hands on communication with your horse. 00:07:43.571 --> 00:07:47.301 And there are various techniques that we use that are really easy to learn. 00:07:47.301 --> 00:07:51.851 And I think that's one of the things that is, so what's so beautiful about 00:07:51.851 --> 00:07:56.151 this work is that you can teach people it in a pretty short period of time. 00:07:56.601 --> 00:07:58.601 We also have the groundwork. 00:07:58.991 --> 00:08:02.981 And there's, you know, I remember years ago, people were starting 00:08:02.981 --> 00:08:04.641 to do body work on horses. 00:08:04.661 --> 00:08:09.761 It was a, you know, at the time when we started nearly 50 years ago, it 00:08:09.771 --> 00:08:12.091 was considered a little bit odd. 00:08:12.101 --> 00:08:16.521 But so what we found is that you could do body work, but if you didn't 00:08:16.521 --> 00:08:18.341 take that into mindful movement. 00:08:18.821 --> 00:08:23.021 As in the Feldenkrais method, then there was a lot that was missed. 00:08:23.431 --> 00:08:27.691 And unfortunately, there's, there's more and more groundwork being done, but 00:08:27.691 --> 00:08:33.271 it's some of it actually kind of, takes away from any body work you might have 00:08:33.271 --> 00:08:35.261 done because it puts horses in posture. 00:08:35.551 --> 00:08:36.731 It's not functional. 00:08:36.731 --> 00:08:40.741 And so we're looking for functional posture for helping, helping them 00:08:40.971 --> 00:08:42.721 have a different way of moving. 00:08:42.951 --> 00:08:46.426 And of course, we also have Some equipment we use like body 00:08:46.426 --> 00:08:47.996 wraps to bring more awareness. 00:08:48.296 --> 00:08:50.686 We have what we call the joy of riding. 00:08:50.836 --> 00:08:55.136 So it's about this whole, you know, parts of it so you can, we 00:08:55.376 --> 00:09:00.466 started, I've had up to 200 horses here on my property, and we for. 00:09:01.291 --> 00:09:04.081 40 years have started our own horses that way. 00:09:04.131 --> 00:09:05.561 Hundreds of horses we've started. 00:09:05.741 --> 00:09:07.861 So it's a step by step. 00:09:07.931 --> 00:09:12.021 I believe that horse training should be like watching paint dry. 00:09:13.311 --> 00:09:14.551 Shouldn't be exciting. 00:09:15.441 --> 00:09:17.781 Rupert Isaacson: You mentioned something called Feldenkrais. 00:09:18.201 --> 00:09:18.441 What's that? 00:09:18.441 --> 00:09:19.981 Feldenkrais, 00:09:20.841 --> 00:09:25.918 Robyn Hood: Moshe Feldenkrais was an Israeli physicist who had had a and he 00:09:25.918 --> 00:09:30.434 was a he had a physical injury himself, and he was also a master of martial 00:09:30.434 --> 00:09:35.734 arts, and he took what he knew about martial arts and broke down every bit of 00:09:35.754 --> 00:09:42.224 movement in his body, and I still think that Feldenkrais is one of the best kept 00:09:42.224 --> 00:09:50.274 secrets for his intention was to improve the movement and of dancers and athletes 00:09:50.274 --> 00:09:51.824 and their performance, and he ended 00:09:55.124 --> 00:10:00.434 Very serious injury, strokes, cerebral palsy, all sorts of things that, and he, 00:10:01.314 --> 00:10:05.434 there is a, he's got a great Facebook page called the Feldenkrais Method, and 00:10:05.434 --> 00:10:11.054 it shows Moshe working with a young man that had been really not being able to 00:10:11.054 --> 00:10:17.104 move very well with a, with his CP, and in one session made such a difference to the 00:10:17.104 --> 00:10:20.574 possibility, and so it's, so check it out. 00:10:20.604 --> 00:10:22.679 It's something that I think is really neat. 00:10:23.099 --> 00:10:28.089 useful for anyone, whether you have any, you know, disabilities or not, because 00:10:28.089 --> 00:10:29.939 the philosophy of it is so similar. 00:10:30.339 --> 00:10:31.289 Rupert Isaacson: It's an interesting thing. 00:10:31.299 --> 00:10:32.599 I've, I've experienced a bit of Feldenkrais. 00:10:32.600 --> 00:10:37.030 And I always love it when, aI tries its hand with Feldenkrais because it 00:10:37.030 --> 00:10:41.320 comes back as failed in Christ, which I always think is rather wonderful. 00:10:41.320 --> 00:10:42.659 Oh, that's hilarious. 00:10:42.660 --> 00:10:43.070 Oh my God. 00:10:43.070 --> 00:10:43.460 You're failed 00:10:43.460 --> 00:10:44.040 Rupert Isaacson: in Christ. 00:10:44.040 --> 00:10:48.140 You can but the Feldenkrais method, actually in German, what does it mean? 00:10:48.140 --> 00:10:50.150 It just means a field circle. 00:10:50.580 --> 00:10:53.720 It's it's a type of body work that's very, very gentle, as you say, almost 00:10:53.720 --> 00:10:55.810 like sort of chiropractic or osteopathy. 00:10:57.415 --> 00:11:01.485 But without all the cracking and with very, very subtle tiny movements 00:11:01.665 --> 00:11:07.835 and I do know that there has been a, a Crossover, to some degree, 00:11:08.205 --> 00:11:10.375 between Feldenkrais and T Touch. 00:11:11.145 --> 00:11:16.305 Can you talk to us about what are the qualities of these movements? 00:11:16.555 --> 00:11:18.925 Whether for humans with, you know, or for horses. 00:11:19.555 --> 00:11:20.815 Why so subtle? 00:11:21.055 --> 00:11:23.950 Because some of us, for example, me, I like deep pressure. 00:11:24.170 --> 00:11:27.430 You know, I like subtle pressures, but I do like deep pressure. 00:11:27.720 --> 00:11:30.320 Other people I know don't, you know, everybody's nervous system 00:11:30.320 --> 00:11:31.250 is a little bit different. 00:11:31.730 --> 00:11:38.270 So what do you feel is the key with the subtlety of these movements? 00:11:38.270 --> 00:11:43.878 Because, yeah, both Feldenkrais and T Touch, it, it, it's, 00:11:43.878 --> 00:11:45.816 it's not hard, deep pressing. 00:11:45.816 --> 00:11:47.890 It's, it, it is more subtle. 00:11:48.380 --> 00:11:49.380 What, what's the quality? 00:11:51.330 --> 00:11:55.095 Robyn Hood: In the If we think about the nervous system, and we think 00:11:55.105 --> 00:11:59.395 about muscles, so when people like deep tissue massage, like it to 00:11:59.395 --> 00:12:01.705 go in, it may affect the muscle. 00:12:02.365 --> 00:12:05.205 But it's actually the nervous system that tells the muscle what to do. 00:12:06.425 --> 00:12:12.305 And so you, what, what my experience is, I personally don't like deep 00:12:12.355 --> 00:12:16.235 tissue work because it makes me really sore and I'm not really into pain. 00:12:16.255 --> 00:12:20.365 That's, and there's, doesn't mean that, that you can't have a certain 00:12:20.365 --> 00:12:22.325 amount of discomfort and it'd be okay. 00:12:22.325 --> 00:12:27.195 And there, you know, certainly in the, in the Feldenkrais work, there is 00:12:27.195 --> 00:12:29.675 a, There is sort of a portion of it. 00:12:29.685 --> 00:12:31.675 That's not 100 percent gentle. 00:12:31.675 --> 00:12:34.225 There's a depending on the on the practitioner and so on. 00:12:34.635 --> 00:12:35.275 And but you're right. 00:12:35.275 --> 00:12:39.325 It's a lot more like what I would call classical osteopathy because 00:12:39.325 --> 00:12:42.175 there's 2 kinds of osteopathy when there's 1 that's like. 00:12:42.910 --> 00:12:44.000 Healing basically. 00:12:44.000 --> 00:12:46.460 And then there's the one that does is more manipulative. 00:12:47.030 --> 00:12:52.550 I, what, what my experience is, is that first of all, especially with animals, 00:12:52.580 --> 00:12:56.900 we have to find a way to make contact with them that they say it's okay. 00:12:57.650 --> 00:13:00.790 And there's no animal on this planet that I know that when you 00:13:00.790 --> 00:13:03.950 go in and cause discomfort that they're going to go great do more. 00:13:04.440 --> 00:13:04.860 Do more. 00:13:05.340 --> 00:13:09.030 And in fact, some of the techniques that are used on horses that are 00:13:09.050 --> 00:13:13.420 really deep work, they'll say, you know, leave this door open so you can 00:13:13.420 --> 00:13:17.160 get away if they kick you or things like, you know, things like that. 00:13:17.160 --> 00:13:21.940 So it may help in some ways that you're you know, you're releasing 00:13:21.990 --> 00:13:24.810 you're releasing some tissue or something at the moment, but it 00:13:24.810 --> 00:13:26.400 usually comes back pretty quickly. 00:13:26.410 --> 00:13:31.885 So if we don't, so what, what, what I find Is it like we have techniques that 00:13:31.885 --> 00:13:33.985 you can go in deep without going in hard. 00:13:34.260 --> 00:13:38.900 There's a huge, there's a huge difference with, with that and the people that I've 00:13:38.900 --> 00:13:42.700 worked with many people that have had that they maybe use their upper body a lot, 00:13:42.700 --> 00:13:47.230 so they're super tight and they've had a lot to deep tissue work and it helps 00:13:47.230 --> 00:13:52.010 in the moment, but it comes back so, so quickly, the, the sort of discomfort. 00:13:52.010 --> 00:13:55.300 And I remember one groomer who had really tight shoulders. 00:13:55.300 --> 00:13:59.210 And so I Did some lifts with the wraps and I did some different 00:13:59.220 --> 00:14:04.110 things on her shoulders and she told me that I, because of her, her 00:14:04.360 --> 00:14:07.380 sort of preference to heavy work. 00:14:07.570 --> 00:14:09.800 And then she told me that it hadn't really worked. 00:14:09.820 --> 00:14:14.260 I went less, I went less and I went less, but I waited longer. 00:14:14.940 --> 00:14:18.430 And then, as I started this little release with her, her shoulder just kept going 00:14:18.430 --> 00:14:20.480 down and down and down and down and down. 00:14:20.500 --> 00:14:21.455 And she said, Okay. 00:14:21.855 --> 00:14:26.455 I've never felt that release before because my body's always been protective. 00:14:27.015 --> 00:14:31.185 And so I think that, especially with animals, is there's they're 00:14:31.185 --> 00:14:35.225 much more honest in their responses than in a way that than humans are. 00:14:35.225 --> 00:14:36.835 And of course you can be too light. 00:14:37.155 --> 00:14:40.065 T touch falls into the category of light pressure touch. 00:14:40.545 --> 00:14:43.255 You know, the really light touch is that alarming touch, like 00:14:43.265 --> 00:14:44.715 when a fly walks across you. 00:14:44.725 --> 00:14:46.445 That's not what we're looking for. 00:14:47.655 --> 00:14:49.035 Rupert Isaacson: Really don't like that at all. 00:14:49.985 --> 00:14:52.395 Robyn Hood: Well, we wouldn't do that. 00:14:52.395 --> 00:14:54.645 I don't think any any animal really likes it. 00:14:54.645 --> 00:14:57.995 So light pressure touch what I call and there's there's some horses 00:14:57.995 --> 00:15:01.785 that are super, super sensitive and the synapses over fire. 00:15:01.795 --> 00:15:06.615 So when you use light touch, they it's not very comfortable. 00:15:06.625 --> 00:15:08.145 So then what we would do. 00:15:09.290 --> 00:15:11.660 Is apply what I call more positive pressure. 00:15:11.660 --> 00:15:16.460 So it would be diffusing the contact over a larger area, but creating a 00:15:16.460 --> 00:15:21.100 little bit more pressure that soothes that sort of calms the synapses. 00:15:21.110 --> 00:15:24.920 So, so there are times that we'll go in deeper, but it won't. 00:15:27.150 --> 00:15:29.770 Rupert Isaacson: Can you describe for me that does make sense. 00:15:30.330 --> 00:15:34.810 Can you describe for me a fairly typical tea touch session? 00:15:34.810 --> 00:15:39.390 So let's say you arrive at my barn and my horses are hardworking boys and girls. 00:15:39.390 --> 00:15:43.880 So, you know, like me, they've all got a desire to have ameliorative 00:15:44.700 --> 00:15:45.920 touch, you know, on their body. 00:15:46.110 --> 00:15:49.560 So you'll, you know, you'd notice, let's say I've got an older horse 00:15:49.880 --> 00:15:54.320 and You'll notice perhaps he's a little stiff in the withers. 00:15:54.590 --> 00:15:59.385 Maybe he, maybe his stifle is not everything it used to be. 00:16:00.105 --> 00:16:03.055 Despite the fact that we're lunging and doing in hand and doing the best 00:16:03.055 --> 00:16:07.445 we can but nonetheless, you know So let's say we walk in there and you 00:16:07.475 --> 00:16:08.595 you cast your eye over the horse. 00:16:08.595 --> 00:16:11.755 You say yeah Yeah, I can see a couple of wear and tear spots. 00:16:11.755 --> 00:16:16.175 I can see where the horse is perhaps protecting itself Let's say it was 00:16:16.175 --> 00:16:18.135 those two spots withers and stifle. 00:16:19.545 --> 00:16:24.035 Can you describe to me more or less how you would operate. 00:16:24.415 --> 00:16:26.705 And what's going on through your hands? 00:16:26.705 --> 00:16:27.945 What touches are you using? 00:16:28.775 --> 00:16:29.815 How are they helping? 00:16:30.335 --> 00:16:35.865 And how is this creating a bond between you and the horse that I, 00:16:35.885 --> 00:16:39.515 the owner, could then pick up on and continue once you leave the barn? 00:16:40.715 --> 00:16:43.975 Robyn Hood: Now, that's a big question because pretty much our answer 00:16:43.975 --> 00:16:47.745 is usually it depends, you know, because so the first thing is to 00:16:47.745 --> 00:16:48.855 Rupert Isaacson: an imaginary scenario. 00:16:49.205 --> 00:16:54.225 Robyn Hood: So I, so I would say the first thing is, if I have a hard working 00:16:54.235 --> 00:17:00.585 horse that is older, I have lots of old horses in, in my barn, I, I actually 00:17:00.585 --> 00:17:03.345 am looking to help them feel better. 00:17:03.775 --> 00:17:07.815 I, I'm not going to actually go in and I don't want to necessarily 00:17:07.825 --> 00:17:09.445 bring a lot more awareness. 00:17:09.485 --> 00:17:13.745 I want to help them be able to maybe release tension. 00:17:14.145 --> 00:17:18.315 Take deeper breaths help them and I, I wouldn't necessarily go 00:17:18.315 --> 00:17:22.475 to the areas that are, that are described as being the issue. 00:17:22.915 --> 00:17:23.055 I 00:17:23.055 --> 00:17:26.905 Robyn Hood: would probably start on the opposite end of the body because the 00:17:26.935 --> 00:17:32.415 compensation patterns that happen, I want to find places that so I, you know, just 00:17:32.415 --> 00:17:37.835 run my hands over the horse and and watch for their really small response, you know, 00:17:37.935 --> 00:17:42.655 a change in the ear, you know, like a, just different things that they might do. 00:17:42.655 --> 00:17:45.945 And then I'm going to change the contact so that they can 00:17:45.945 --> 00:17:47.465 say, Oh, yeah, this is okay. 00:17:47.465 --> 00:17:47.995 You're okay. 00:17:48.005 --> 00:17:51.825 You're actually going to listen to me rather than going in and doing this. 00:17:51.915 --> 00:17:57.545 So I, I would explore probably extremities in the horse as well. 00:17:57.545 --> 00:18:00.420 So I might You know, ask them to pick up the foot. 00:18:00.430 --> 00:18:03.490 Do some really small leg circles, but not for very long. 00:18:03.740 --> 00:18:06.480 I want to notice how does the horse change their weight? 00:18:06.520 --> 00:18:07.930 How do they change their balance? 00:18:08.010 --> 00:18:11.540 With what ease can they pick up any foot or not? 00:18:12.050 --> 00:18:14.130 Is it with one side easier than the other? 00:18:14.360 --> 00:18:19.050 I may do, probably I would do something with the forelock, like 00:18:19.050 --> 00:18:22.530 doing forelock slides because it actually is kind of like doing the 00:18:22.550 --> 00:18:24.680 tail touches only on the other end. 00:18:24.980 --> 00:18:26.210 I'll do take a hold. 00:18:26.210 --> 00:18:26.670 What are 00:18:26.680 --> 00:18:27.560 Rupert Isaacson: the tail touches? 00:18:27.640 --> 00:18:28.310 Robyn Hood: Oh yeah, right. 00:18:28.310 --> 00:18:28.720 Okay. 00:18:28.780 --> 00:18:29.530 Well, there's a lot. 00:18:29.540 --> 00:18:33.430 So the thing is the tail is, you know, connects the whole spine, 00:18:33.430 --> 00:18:34.730 the back end to the front end. 00:18:35.040 --> 00:18:39.230 And so, I generally on the tail would start standing at the side, a hand 00:18:39.230 --> 00:18:41.790 on the top of the croup because that. 00:18:42.025 --> 00:18:44.545 really lets me feel what's going on for the horse. 00:18:44.715 --> 00:18:49.475 I might start by just stroking the tail hairs from the base of 00:18:49.485 --> 00:18:52.595 the root of the tail out to the end, just at the top of the tail. 00:18:52.595 --> 00:18:53.835 I noticed the response. 00:18:54.215 --> 00:18:59.375 Then I would pick up the hair on the top of the tailbone and pick 00:18:59.375 --> 00:19:02.315 it up and just start just circle the tail like, see, can they? 00:19:02.510 --> 00:19:03.660 Can they actually pick it up? 00:19:03.930 --> 00:19:04.690 Are they tight? 00:19:04.740 --> 00:19:06.990 Are they clamped in the, in the tail? 00:19:07.630 --> 00:19:12.000 And then I just do like a gentle glide with the hair and then slowly release. 00:19:12.000 --> 00:19:17.770 And you'll be able to see the abdominal rectus muscle activates as you do various 00:19:17.780 --> 00:19:21.170 things with the tail, which is incredibly helpful for the back of the horse. 00:19:21.720 --> 00:19:23.220 So I would do that. 00:19:23.440 --> 00:19:25.990 And I also do that with a rider on board. 00:19:26.460 --> 00:19:29.640 I think there is nothing more important. 00:19:30.225 --> 00:19:34.745 Then doing some of the tail, I may circle the tail and, and do like 00:19:34.745 --> 00:19:36.365 a little plug in, if you will. 00:19:36.365 --> 00:19:38.865 So I just gently can the tail come into the body. 00:19:38.865 --> 00:19:39.655 Can they come out? 00:19:40.035 --> 00:19:41.815 What's the horse's response? 00:19:41.865 --> 00:19:47.045 Because when the rider's on board, the horse learns about the functional 00:19:47.045 --> 00:19:51.825 posture of carrying a horse, carrying a rider rather, and that's, and 00:19:51.825 --> 00:19:55.505 so they, they kind of learn, the nervous system learns that it. 00:19:55.835 --> 00:19:59.845 That, oh, that's interesting when the tail is, comes back, my, my back comes up. 00:19:59.845 --> 00:20:01.825 So that's actually gonna feel better. 00:20:02.225 --> 00:20:05.095 Same thing if I take the forelock and I literally just take it 00:20:05.135 --> 00:20:06.275 kind of right by the root. 00:20:06.315 --> 00:20:10.585 I may start with stroking the hair and then I might circle 00:20:11.075 --> 00:20:13.245 the forelock right at the root. 00:20:13.765 --> 00:20:19.245 And then I put a little bit of glide out toward myself with a pause. 00:20:19.830 --> 00:20:26.040 And then slowly carry them that back and what what the writer feels is 00:20:26.040 --> 00:20:31.140 this expansion through the rib cage, and it's incredibly beneficial. 00:20:31.140 --> 00:20:35.590 They feel you feel more when they're with a bareback or bareback pad, but you 00:20:35.590 --> 00:20:39.620 also feel it under the saddle and you see the rider kind of move up and down. 00:20:39.620 --> 00:20:42.110 So the horse kind of gets a better sense of that. 00:20:42.110 --> 00:20:42.360 So. 00:20:42.735 --> 00:20:46.055 I kind of digress there, but I feel that that's a really important. 00:20:46.055 --> 00:20:50.805 So there are a lot of things we may do this gentle flexion of the tailbone. 00:20:51.145 --> 00:20:56.675 And what I notice is that as you just gently, we call it purling, take the 00:20:56.675 --> 00:21:01.915 tailbone in and out gently that you feel different parts of the horse 00:21:01.915 --> 00:21:03.135 moving if you're sitting on them. 00:21:03.745 --> 00:21:06.555 So different parts of the spine moving. 00:21:07.615 --> 00:21:11.735 Rupert Isaacson: Now, you're a well, well, you know, lifelong seasoned horsewoman 00:21:11.735 --> 00:21:13.625 and you, you breed Icelandic horses. 00:21:13.625 --> 00:21:16.495 You've been working at Linda's side for 300 years. 00:21:16.645 --> 00:21:21.195 You know, but of course, many people within the equine 00:21:21.925 --> 00:21:26.615 assisted world, particularly are often relative newcomers to. 00:21:27.265 --> 00:21:32.825 To horse owning and to horsemanship, and it can be a very confusing field. 00:21:32.825 --> 00:21:38.135 And as you know, it's rife with faction and it's rife with shaming, you know, 00:21:38.215 --> 00:21:43.465 if you don't do this, you know, all this sort of emotionally triggering 00:21:43.465 --> 00:21:46.055 language, you know, if you don't do this, you're going to do something terrible 00:21:46.055 --> 00:21:47.005 to your horse and blah, blah, blah. 00:21:47.005 --> 00:21:50.525 So of course what happens is a lot of people come in and they're so 00:21:50.525 --> 00:21:52.865 terrified of doing something adverse. 00:21:53.180 --> 00:21:57.360 To that with their horse or to their horse that they almost are on the side of 00:21:57.550 --> 00:22:01.990 doing too little which of course is Tricky because the horse is a super athlete 00:22:02.020 --> 00:22:08.560 bred for thousands of years to be a super athlete has all this energy and Also 00:22:08.580 --> 00:22:13.870 somebody who hasn't grown up like you able to read horse behavior There's probably 00:22:13.900 --> 00:22:16.890 a note a time you probably can never remember a time when you couldn't read 00:22:16.890 --> 00:22:21.200 horse behavior because it was just all around You it was the family culture, but 00:22:21.210 --> 00:22:23.200 that's not true for a lot of other people. 00:22:23.400 --> 00:22:27.050 So These are some naive questions, but I want you to answer them as best you can. 00:22:27.220 --> 00:22:27.920 How do you know? 00:22:28.550 --> 00:22:29.300 How do you judge? 00:22:29.310 --> 00:22:34.190 How do you discern if a horse is having a positive reaction to what you're doing? 00:22:34.570 --> 00:22:38.769 As opposed to a neutral reaction, or maybe not even a reaction at all. 00:22:38.770 --> 00:22:42.330 Something moves in the body, but it's in response to something that's 00:22:42.330 --> 00:22:44.660 going on half a kilometer away that they're hearing or smelling. 00:22:46.110 --> 00:22:49.540 How do you discern what is a positive response? 00:22:51.250 --> 00:22:52.190 Robyn Hood: It's a good question. 00:22:52.380 --> 00:22:59.890 I would, I would say for me that just teaching people about noticing little 00:22:59.900 --> 00:23:01.400 shifts in weight with the horse. 00:23:01.410 --> 00:23:05.300 And I don't know that we can actually ever really know. 00:23:05.810 --> 00:23:11.250 You know, there's, there's this whole kind of culture that 00:23:11.250 --> 00:23:13.740 people will go, Oh, This is good. 00:23:13.740 --> 00:23:14.750 And this is bad. 00:23:14.760 --> 00:23:16.000 You know, the horse yawns. 00:23:16.000 --> 00:23:16.300 It's good. 00:23:16.300 --> 00:23:17.190 Oh, the horse yawns. 00:23:17.190 --> 00:23:17.650 It's bad. 00:23:17.660 --> 00:23:18.700 The horse licks and chews. 00:23:18.700 --> 00:23:19.070 It's good. 00:23:19.070 --> 00:23:20.080 The horse licks and chews. 00:23:20.080 --> 00:23:20.450 It's bad. 00:23:20.970 --> 00:23:21.280 You know what? 00:23:21.540 --> 00:23:22.130 How do we really 00:23:22.290 --> 00:23:22.650 Rupert Isaacson: confusing? 00:23:22.920 --> 00:23:23.110 Yeah. 00:23:23.680 --> 00:23:24.890 Robyn Hood: And how do we really know? 00:23:24.890 --> 00:23:27.430 And that's where I feel like if we. 00:23:28.680 --> 00:23:33.710 If we pay attention to the small things like does our horse just 00:23:33.710 --> 00:23:36.570 watch it pay attention to the, to the ears what they're doing? 00:23:36.570 --> 00:23:37.960 And that doesn't mean that it's bad. 00:23:37.970 --> 00:23:40.210 It just mainly means that the horse is paying attention. 00:23:40.610 --> 00:23:45.400 Pay attention to the, like, the tension, maybe tension or, or if 00:23:45.400 --> 00:23:49.480 you see lines around the mouth, or maybe you see them yawning. 00:23:49.480 --> 00:23:53.050 And I don't, I think yawning, I think Most of these things, licking and 00:23:53.050 --> 00:23:57.270 chewing, yawning, and so on, blinking, they're a response of the nervous system. 00:23:57.680 --> 00:23:58.610 Rupert Isaacson: They can mean many things. 00:23:59.160 --> 00:24:00.360 Robyn Hood: They can mean lots of things. 00:24:00.730 --> 00:24:00.860 Rupert Isaacson: And 00:24:00.860 --> 00:24:03.740 Robyn Hood: I think it's a huge mistake when we say, you know, 00:24:03.740 --> 00:24:05.180 one is this and one is that. 00:24:05.180 --> 00:24:07.990 I think we have to just be a bit more neutral in our response 00:24:08.260 --> 00:24:09.270 and pay attention to it. 00:24:09.280 --> 00:24:11.400 Like, pay attention to when does it happen. 00:24:11.500 --> 00:24:15.790 If you are doing something, you see a response and you go back to where 00:24:15.790 --> 00:24:19.290 you saw sort of a new more what I would say kind of neutral response. 00:24:19.840 --> 00:24:22.060 Does the horse does the horse change? 00:24:22.060 --> 00:24:28.270 Because I think that's I think so often we don't pay attention to when horses 00:24:28.270 --> 00:24:29.860 are really trying to tell us something. 00:24:29.860 --> 00:24:32.760 So, for example, grooming is one of the biggest things that 00:24:32.800 --> 00:24:34.580 I have people pay attention to. 00:24:34.630 --> 00:24:38.590 That's generally one of our first physical interactions with the horse. 00:24:39.175 --> 00:24:46.035 So if your horse has to be cross tied to be groomed, then I suggest you 00:24:46.055 --> 00:24:49.135 set up a situation where they don't have to be cross tied so you can 00:24:49.165 --> 00:24:51.145 actually see what their response is. 00:24:51.675 --> 00:24:55.045 Do they turn around to do they pin their ears? 00:24:55.065 --> 00:24:56.075 Do they move around? 00:24:56.085 --> 00:24:57.505 Do they turn around to bite you? 00:24:57.505 --> 00:25:01.280 And I had someone Ask me at a class is, you know, does doing 00:25:01.310 --> 00:25:02.670 tea touch make your horse bite? 00:25:02.740 --> 00:25:04.300 And I said, well, not usually. 00:25:04.720 --> 00:25:05.990 And I said, what was happening? 00:25:05.990 --> 00:25:09.270 And she said, well, I was grooming him and he was turning around to bite me. 00:25:09.270 --> 00:25:10.950 And I was grooming him in the stall. 00:25:10.950 --> 00:25:12.590 And I said, well, where do you normally groom? 00:25:13.020 --> 00:25:14.230 She said, he's in cross ties. 00:25:15.580 --> 00:25:19.230 So in the cross dice, he can't give any information. 00:25:19.450 --> 00:25:22.140 He can move his hind end around, but people usually kind 00:25:22.140 --> 00:25:23.370 of tell them to stand still. 00:25:23.370 --> 00:25:27.310 And, you know, if you get, if you get after them enough and you are, 00:25:28.030 --> 00:25:31.840 you know, like positive enough in what you're doing, you can get horses 00:25:31.840 --> 00:25:36.540 to put up with a lot of things if they don't have that restriction. 00:25:37.300 --> 00:25:38.950 Can we go slower when we groom? 00:25:39.690 --> 00:25:42.040 Can we use a different kind of brush? 00:25:42.290 --> 00:25:47.020 Use it on yourself like take a brush on your own arm and brush like I went all 00:25:47.020 --> 00:25:50.500 through Pony Club and of course we're taught you know use this flicking motion. 00:25:50.510 --> 00:25:54.160 Well a lot of horses really don't like that and all it does is move 00:25:54.160 --> 00:25:55.750 the dirt from one place to another. 00:25:55.750 --> 00:25:58.840 So what happens if you turn the brush on the side a bit 00:25:58.840 --> 00:26:01.040 and you do a long slow stroke? 00:26:01.820 --> 00:26:02.570 What happens then? 00:26:03.280 --> 00:26:06.690 And notice what the horse's reaction and I think that's one of the. 00:26:07.215 --> 00:26:10.115 Best ways for people who aren't familiar with horses. 00:26:10.800 --> 00:26:16.540 Is to just start to notice response, like notice, hopefully quiet. 00:26:16.550 --> 00:26:20.630 If it's a big response, then you really ideally change something that you do. 00:26:21.190 --> 00:26:23.330 So I, I think that's a good way. 00:26:23.330 --> 00:26:26.940 And also when you, when you just approach your horse, how 00:26:26.940 --> 00:26:27.920 do you approach your horse? 00:26:27.920 --> 00:26:31.840 You know, if you approach your horse, from the shoulder. 00:26:31.840 --> 00:26:38.640 So I've been importing horses from Iceland since 1977 and in Iceland 00:26:38.640 --> 00:26:43.305 at the time, the only way they could catch a horse was to Put them in a 00:26:43.305 --> 00:26:46.505 small pen, put them in a corner and then walk up to them and catch them. 00:26:46.515 --> 00:26:49.865 They couldn't walk up to them in a pasture and just put a halter on. 00:26:50.205 --> 00:26:53.935 So that was the first thing that we taught our horses is that you could 00:26:53.935 --> 00:26:58.205 be that you could just be walk, you know, walk up and catch them. 00:26:58.225 --> 00:27:01.215 So we'd use a little bit of dried bread and we'd give them a little bread. 00:27:01.225 --> 00:27:02.275 We do a little scratch. 00:27:02.275 --> 00:27:03.154 We'd walk away. 00:27:03.725 --> 00:27:06.495 And then we'd go back up and start that way. 00:27:06.495 --> 00:27:09.715 So I think how we catch horses is also really important. 00:27:09.765 --> 00:27:14.545 How our first interaction, using the back of the hand instead of the palm, is 00:27:14.625 --> 00:27:18.905 it, for most horses, stroking just down the, you know, the side of the neck, is 00:27:18.905 --> 00:27:22.715 much more acceptable for most horses, especially a horse you don't know. 00:27:23.255 --> 00:27:28.120 When you walk towards a horse, If they look at you, this is, you know, in 00:27:28.120 --> 00:27:31.560 past years, we've had so many horses that were hard to catch if I'd stop 00:27:32.540 --> 00:27:34.100 and then I would just look away. 00:27:34.140 --> 00:27:37.810 And then if the horse looked away and then looked back, I could 00:27:37.810 --> 00:27:38.880 always walk up and catch them. 00:27:39.760 --> 00:27:43.310 So I think that just paying attention to. 00:27:43.910 --> 00:27:48.940 Small things in the, in the pasture or in a paddock or whatever, when you start 00:27:48.940 --> 00:27:51.320 to make contact can be really beneficial. 00:27:51.910 --> 00:27:53.640 Rupert Isaacson: Yeah, I think, I think that sometimes 00:27:53.660 --> 00:27:54.240 one overthinks these things. 00:27:54.750 --> 00:27:58.860 I mean, we're all mammals, and I think all mammals enjoy a certain 00:27:59.040 --> 00:28:01.390 that we have this thing called the mammalian caregiving system. 00:28:01.650 --> 00:28:08.010 So whether we're dogs being suckled, whether we're pigs, whether we're 00:28:08.020 --> 00:28:13.870 horses, whether we're monkeys there's a certain just amount of touch. 00:28:14.520 --> 00:28:21.630 Embracing and the intention long slow strokes, as you've said, and 00:28:21.630 --> 00:28:23.360 these seem to go across all species. 00:28:23.420 --> 00:28:26.160 And then this thing of do they seem to seek more? 00:28:26.430 --> 00:28:26.900 I've got you. 00:28:26.920 --> 00:28:28.380 You talked about the four lock pulls. 00:28:28.380 --> 00:28:29.360 I've got a horse that, you know. 00:28:29.860 --> 00:28:32.450 If you pull his forelock, man, he's just going to be with you going, 00:28:32.450 --> 00:28:33.920 Hey, how about that forelock thing? 00:28:34.290 --> 00:28:38.670 And, you know, and he'll actively like move his head, basically put his head 00:28:38.860 --> 00:28:41.300 right where your hand is and say, I would like some more of that, please. 00:28:41.300 --> 00:28:45.680 It's very, very clear, but he's a very connected sort of, of a 00:28:45.680 --> 00:28:47.040 guy who's very human focused. 00:28:47.260 --> 00:28:52.030 There could be another horse that's shy who might like it, who might not show 00:28:52.030 --> 00:28:54.840 it quite so, blatantly, but nonetheless. 00:28:55.615 --> 00:29:02.695 Appears to exhale, drop the head, half close the eye, do 00:29:02.695 --> 00:29:03.855 sort of things that we might do. 00:29:04.195 --> 00:29:07.545 That a dog might do, that other mammals might do that denote pleasure. 00:29:07.945 --> 00:29:12.205 Because oxytocin, you know, serotonin, endorphins are common to us all, right? 00:29:12.285 --> 00:29:17.795 So, it's, it's, it's interesting to me that you guys at T Touch 00:29:17.795 --> 00:29:20.575 seem to have found your way into. 00:29:21.390 --> 00:29:27.150 a number of ways that, when I observe it, seem to create those hormones 00:29:27.570 --> 00:29:32.850 in the horse, and you seem to have a repertoire of particular types of touch. 00:29:32.850 --> 00:29:36.230 You mentioned some of them now, and those, those listeners who've 00:29:36.230 --> 00:29:40.590 listened to my podcast with Linda will know about this business of 00:29:40.590 --> 00:29:42.520 the circle and a quarter movement. 00:29:43.480 --> 00:29:45.420 Can you talk to me a bit about that? 00:29:45.490 --> 00:29:50.980 What is the value of the circle and a quarter movement? 00:29:51.080 --> 00:29:53.080 How do you do it? 00:29:53.990 --> 00:29:58.770 And what do you observe in terms of the horse's pleasure responses? 00:30:02.790 --> 00:30:04.890 If you were going to say to me, Rupert, over Zoom, I'm going to 00:30:04.890 --> 00:30:07.540 teach you how to do the circle and a quarter thing with your hand. 00:30:09.800 --> 00:30:10.439 How would you do it? 00:30:11.990 --> 00:30:16.690 Robyn Hood: Well, I, I think that I probably, first of all, I kind of look 00:30:16.690 --> 00:30:20.120 at the person and depends a bit on, on their hands, for instance, like if 00:30:20.120 --> 00:30:24.660 you're working with someone who maybe has some arthritis in their hands, 00:30:24.660 --> 00:30:28.820 then I'm going to have them put the whole of the hand on the, on the, so 00:30:28.820 --> 00:30:32.290 the fingers and the, and the palm, not the middle of the palm, because 00:30:32.290 --> 00:30:35.990 that's sort of concave for most people, but just put it gently on the animal. 00:30:35.990 --> 00:30:41.040 And then just think about, Moving the tissue so it's like your hand 00:30:41.040 --> 00:30:46.000 is kind of Velcro to the body and you're going to move the tissue 00:30:46.630 --> 00:30:48.640 in starting in an upward fashion. 00:30:49.000 --> 00:30:50.720 So it's going to start with a lift. 00:30:50.730 --> 00:30:54.180 So if you think about going around this clock, and of course, now that we have 00:30:54.180 --> 00:30:58.430 so many digital clocks, I don't even know how people are going to learn like kids. 00:30:58.870 --> 00:31:03.830 But if 6 on the clock is the lowest point of gravity, you're going to make contact. 00:31:04.180 --> 00:31:07.820 With that, and then you're going to move the skin under your hand. 00:31:07.840 --> 00:31:09.980 The thing that people do a lot of times is they rub. 00:31:10.370 --> 00:31:15.320 And if you instead can move the tissue in approximately a circle and a quarter, 00:31:16.220 --> 00:31:22.665 have a little pause, and then either carry it back towards where six was, Or 00:31:22.665 --> 00:31:27.365 you can just lightly take your hand off and move and move to another place that 00:31:27.405 --> 00:31:30.485 I think the most important thing and I often have people just put their hand 00:31:30.485 --> 00:31:34.995 on their arm so that they can on their upper arm so that they can actually 00:31:35.295 --> 00:31:38.655 feel the movement because the skin is a little bit looser on most people's 00:31:38.675 --> 00:31:41.215 arms, say, then maybe even on a horses. 00:31:41.735 --> 00:31:44.285 And, you know, if the tissue is really tight. 00:31:45.145 --> 00:31:49.635 I actually suggest to people that they imagine that they're moving the tissue, 00:31:50.385 --> 00:31:55.985 because when we imagine doing something, our nervous system does something, and 00:31:55.985 --> 00:31:57.815 something will happen under our hand. 00:31:58.145 --> 00:32:01.505 If because if the tissue is really tight, I see people just kind of rubbing across. 00:32:01.505 --> 00:32:02.745 Now, that doesn't mean it's bad. 00:32:03.560 --> 00:32:07.110 It's just that there's a different experience with that. 00:32:07.390 --> 00:32:10.830 And, and we have so many parts of the hand to use. 00:32:11.160 --> 00:32:15.190 If, if somebody, if if an animal's really sensitive, then 00:32:15.190 --> 00:32:16.650 we might curve our fingers. 00:32:16.650 --> 00:32:20.080 So we're going to use the backs of our first two knuckle joints 00:32:20.080 --> 00:32:21.890 to make that same kind of contact. 00:32:21.890 --> 00:32:23.700 It'll diffuse the contact a little bit. 00:32:24.230 --> 00:32:30.380 I actually have to say, I, I think one of the reasons that the circles are useful. 00:32:31.195 --> 00:32:33.795 is that they're a different habit for people. 00:32:34.495 --> 00:32:39.145 If we, when our habits bypass the thinking part of our brain, right? 00:32:39.175 --> 00:32:42.285 And that's what makes habits useful, and it's what makes them easy. 00:32:42.285 --> 00:32:44.925 We don't have to think about doing a habit, right? 00:32:45.015 --> 00:32:47.045 We have to think about doing something else. 00:32:48.325 --> 00:32:52.465 And so if I want to change something, I have to change something, 00:32:52.465 --> 00:32:53.625 which sounds super obvious. 00:32:54.115 --> 00:33:00.575 But if I can give them some way that's It can't be too different, like that's why I 00:33:00.575 --> 00:33:05.365 look at people's hands and I look at how they just automatically make contact with 00:33:05.365 --> 00:33:09.665 their animals, and then I pick a touch that I think will be a little different. 00:33:10.260 --> 00:33:11.480 Because it's the same with our animals. 00:33:11.480 --> 00:33:15.920 If we want to change habits, we can't just say, other one habit is really bad. 00:33:15.920 --> 00:33:17.160 We're going to take you into something else. 00:33:17.670 --> 00:33:19.360 We have to expand. 00:33:19.370 --> 00:33:22.760 We have to step them out of the habit and then let them come back 00:33:22.770 --> 00:33:26.810 in and step out and come back in so that that comfort zone gets bigger. 00:33:27.280 --> 00:33:30.070 And so that would be the same thing even with people and the 00:33:30.120 --> 00:33:31.410 contact that they're making. 00:33:31.420 --> 00:33:35.200 I might, I might start with somebody and say, what about if you. 00:33:35.655 --> 00:33:41.095 Stroked the horse's mane, maybe what you do is you take a little contact 00:33:41.095 --> 00:33:44.805 at the root of the mane and you do a little circle and a quarter and you 00:33:44.825 --> 00:33:49.425 pause and then you stroke probably in the direction the hair grows. 00:33:49.425 --> 00:33:54.415 So up a little bit and then pause bit because you know, our, our in breath 00:33:54.465 --> 00:33:58.055 is activates the sympathetic and our out breath the parasympathetic, 00:33:58.105 --> 00:34:05.495 which is why that, that external, that exhale Is so important. 00:34:05.505 --> 00:34:08.255 And it's people that I have to warn people. 00:34:08.255 --> 00:34:10.415 I said, you know, I'm not I'm not exasperated. 00:34:10.415 --> 00:34:11.145 I'm not bored. 00:34:11.655 --> 00:34:16.655 That audible exhale is about grounding and it's about and what I find is 00:34:16.655 --> 00:34:21.055 that everyone around me will do it and the animals will do it as well. 00:34:21.385 --> 00:34:25.265 So I think that the circles are important. 00:34:26.805 --> 00:34:30.125 I think they're important because they actually help us to change a habit. 00:34:30.145 --> 00:34:34.165 And yes, they give a different kind of information to the body. 00:34:35.395 --> 00:34:39.815 And if we can change something that we do, I think that's actually 00:34:39.935 --> 00:34:43.335 probably the most important part of it because we start to think, be 00:34:43.355 --> 00:34:45.625 mindful and be present and aware. 00:34:46.325 --> 00:34:47.355 Rupert Isaacson: I think that's a very good point. 00:34:47.385 --> 00:34:53.015 I think, I know that particularly those of us who are lifelong horse 00:34:53.015 --> 00:34:58.425 people tend to have methodologies that we comfort zones for us. 00:34:58.475 --> 00:35:02.965 They came out of the culture that we were born into and 00:35:03.365 --> 00:35:06.145 they have their pros and cons. 00:35:06.485 --> 00:35:10.625 But if we're not learning new languages, well, we're always going to be 00:35:10.625 --> 00:35:14.315 stuck speaking the same old dialect of whatever language it was, which 00:35:14.315 --> 00:35:17.485 will be great in certain contexts and completely useless in others. 00:35:17.525 --> 00:35:22.395 As we know, if I want to, I'm sitting here in Germany, my London, South 00:35:22.395 --> 00:35:28.515 African vernacular is of limited value when I'm trying to order 00:35:28.515 --> 00:35:29.625 a drink in a bar in Frankfurt. 00:35:29.675 --> 00:35:33.875 You know, so I've got to, you know, and it, I think it's, it, it's such an 00:35:33.875 --> 00:35:38.695 interesting thing that while we know as horse people, that there is a whole 00:35:38.705 --> 00:35:42.985 world of equestrian culture universe of different equestrian cultures out there, 00:35:43.205 --> 00:35:47.245 none of which is better or worse than any other because they all have evolved for 00:35:47.245 --> 00:35:51.315 very specific jobs and are good at them. 00:35:51.705 --> 00:35:54.315 So they're presumably they, you know, they work. 00:35:54.695 --> 00:35:58.905 And yet we often have these defensive responses when we come 00:35:58.905 --> 00:36:00.335 across one that's unfamiliar to us. 00:36:00.335 --> 00:36:01.135 Oh, I don't like that. 00:36:01.555 --> 00:36:02.205 Yeah. 00:36:02.485 --> 00:36:08.245 I remember as a kid, once being out hunting in Leicestershire, which is 00:36:08.255 --> 00:36:11.670 the, the, Horse culture I grew up in, which is very much cross country 00:36:11.670 --> 00:36:13.450 riding, jumping, that sort of thing. 00:36:13.450 --> 00:36:14.900 And so hunting was a big part of it. 00:36:15.330 --> 00:36:17.670 And big fences, you know, big hedges. 00:36:18.420 --> 00:36:20.280 So that's what it was all about. 00:36:20.280 --> 00:36:23.360 It was about being brave and riding at the hedge and, you know, getting over. 00:36:23.750 --> 00:36:27.480 And they were, I was listening to two guys discussing, local guys 00:36:27.480 --> 00:36:32.140 discussing an equestrian show they'd seen that had been coming through 00:36:32.140 --> 00:36:34.050 the area in the early eighties. 00:36:34.050 --> 00:36:37.310 And they were like, well, you know, I don't teach my horse to do circus tricks. 00:36:37.310 --> 00:36:39.099 And I remember sitting there on my horse thinking. 00:36:39.260 --> 00:36:39.720 Why not? 00:36:40.080 --> 00:36:40.650 Why wouldn't you? 00:36:40.740 --> 00:36:42.320 Like, what, what's wrong with that? 00:36:42.330 --> 00:36:44.610 And, and why, maybe the horse would enjoy it. 00:36:44.620 --> 00:36:50.520 And why, why do you feel that the thing that we do has more merit than that thing? 00:36:51.910 --> 00:36:52.600 Interesting. 00:36:52.600 --> 00:36:55.700 So interesting that we limit ourselves in this way. 00:36:55.700 --> 00:36:57.490 And of course, therefore, presumably our animals. 00:36:58.030 --> 00:37:05.900 You have within a whole repertoire of different kinds of touches with quite 00:37:05.900 --> 00:37:12.510 exotic names and quite specific movements of the hand and finger that go now beyond 00:37:12.710 --> 00:37:15.000 the circle and a quarter sort of basis. 00:37:15.360 --> 00:37:20.450 Can you give us an example of some of those touches and their names and what 00:37:20.460 --> 00:37:24.600 they mean, what they're for, how they got their names and how we might do them? 00:37:27.450 --> 00:37:30.680 Robyn Hood: When Linda started with this work, and I remember we 00:37:30.680 --> 00:37:34.050 had sort of five basic touches and basically they didn't have a name. 00:37:34.050 --> 00:37:37.960 They had a description, you know, so there was, we would use the flat of the 00:37:37.960 --> 00:37:42.950 hand, or we would there were, it was basically just giving a description. 00:37:43.610 --> 00:37:43.990 And. 00:37:44.430 --> 00:37:48.600 Because Linda's really interested in this concept of light, right, left brain 00:37:48.610 --> 00:37:53.230 learning, what she realized is that first of all, we were working with animals. 00:37:53.230 --> 00:37:58.980 And by the way, T Touch is actually the only modality, like, like contact 00:37:58.980 --> 00:38:01.689 modality that started with animals. 00:38:02.540 --> 00:38:05.960 Like most massage and Reiki and all these things they started with people 00:38:05.980 --> 00:38:09.820 and then people found the value and so they went into, you know, try 00:38:09.820 --> 00:38:11.090 them on their animals fair enough. 00:38:11.390 --> 00:38:14.940 Linda went the opposite way, even though our background you know 00:38:14.940 --> 00:38:20.080 our for in 1963 she and her first husband wrote a book called physical 00:38:20.090 --> 00:38:21.834 therapy for the athletic course. 00:38:22.355 --> 00:38:27.365 So they did do, you know, like typical kind of massage on, on horses. 00:38:27.715 --> 00:38:30.725 But when she, you know, found out about this, the felon Christ, 00:38:30.765 --> 00:38:32.055 she had to change it enough. 00:38:32.055 --> 00:38:33.445 So she, it would be teachable. 00:38:33.935 --> 00:38:34.225 Okay. 00:38:34.255 --> 00:38:34.555 And 00:38:34.555 --> 00:38:40.305 Robyn Hood: so when she, many of the names came from animals that she was working on. 00:38:40.315 --> 00:38:44.985 So for instance, the, the clouded leopard, she was at the Zurich zoo and she was 00:38:44.985 --> 00:38:46.985 working with clouded leopards, have spots. 00:38:46.985 --> 00:38:49.795 And she was working with these young cubs that were quite. 00:38:50.960 --> 00:38:57.160 And she said, okay, so she put her, the pads of her fingers on the spots and she 00:38:57.160 --> 00:38:59.290 moved the spot in a circle and a quarter. 00:38:59.290 --> 00:39:03.050 So that became the clouded leopard, which is kind of the You know, sort 00:39:03.050 --> 00:39:06.970 of our hallmark touch, if you will and then she thought, well, if I 00:39:06.970 --> 00:39:10.470 was to make my fingers a little flatter, which diffuses the contact. 00:39:10.480 --> 00:39:13.700 So the 1st and 2nd flange would be making contact. 00:39:14.500 --> 00:39:17.380 That's when the leopard is lying their paws down, so that 00:39:17.380 --> 00:39:19.040 could be the lying leopard. 00:39:19.520 --> 00:39:22.530 And so it just it developed from that the Python lift. 00:39:22.530 --> 00:39:25.830 It was developed, which is basically, you know, making contact, 00:39:25.830 --> 00:39:27.610 supporting the tissue up a little. 00:39:28.545 --> 00:39:33.035 Pausing and carrying the tissue back down started on Joyce the python. 00:39:33.695 --> 00:39:36.755 And so, so it was, you know, and it was a snake. 00:39:36.815 --> 00:39:39.875 I mean, it was, you know, Linda's experiences with these 00:39:39.875 --> 00:39:41.245 animals has been so profound. 00:39:41.955 --> 00:39:48.135 Joyce was a at the San Diego wild animal park and the, and she had a chronic 00:39:48.135 --> 00:39:53.405 lung infection and typically they keep snakes in very small places and people 00:39:53.405 --> 00:39:56.995 will say a snake wouldn't know the difference if it lived in a shoebox. 00:39:58.060 --> 00:40:01.060 Which is pretty shocking that a person that actually knows 00:40:01.060 --> 00:40:01.900 reptiles would say that. 00:40:01.970 --> 00:40:07.360 Anyway, Joyce was lying across this stage, and she had some troubles she 00:40:07.360 --> 00:40:08.920 had a lot of tough trouble breathing. 00:40:08.920 --> 00:40:14.000 And so Linda started doing these little lifts, just along the side of her body. 00:40:14.300 --> 00:40:17.575 And, excuse me, snakes have an amazing tissue. 00:40:17.575 --> 00:40:19.995 So wonderful to work, do touch on snakes. 00:40:19.995 --> 00:40:22.495 They don't feel anything like people think they're going to feel anyway. 00:40:22.755 --> 00:40:26.405 She's working along doing these little touches along the body, a little 00:40:26.405 --> 00:40:30.055 bit behind the head, and all of a sudden, all of this stuff started to 00:40:30.055 --> 00:40:33.285 just expel out of this snake's nose. 00:40:34.295 --> 00:40:39.045 And so that was quite interesting, but the next day when the snake was brought 00:40:39.055 --> 00:40:43.645 back up onto stage, the snake went right past everybody, went in front of Linda, 00:40:43.675 --> 00:40:49.825 stood up, put her head up and they, they do this little tongue flick to, 00:40:50.155 --> 00:40:51.615 to just check out their environment. 00:40:51.625 --> 00:40:53.915 And that's what he did with his head over her shoulder or 00:40:53.915 --> 00:40:54.975 her head over her shoulder. 00:40:55.895 --> 00:41:00.645 And the, the cameraman, this one cameraman was afraid of snakes and he was actually 00:41:00.645 --> 00:41:02.315 in tears when he watched it because. 00:41:02.960 --> 00:41:09.310 He thought snakes were so awful, and the fact that the snake clearly 00:41:09.310 --> 00:41:15.400 made a connection to her was beyond, beyond his, you know, his knowledge. 00:41:15.490 --> 00:41:18.260 And so that became the Python lift. 00:41:18.260 --> 00:41:26.320 And so many of these touches have either come from a person who found 00:41:26.320 --> 00:41:30.705 that they needed to touch in a different way to make themselves comfortable. 00:41:30.775 --> 00:41:34.895 So for instance, the owl is when you can make a little circle with 00:41:34.905 --> 00:41:36.785 your thumb and your index finger. 00:41:37.265 --> 00:41:42.645 And Linda started using it on her ribs because it's an easy way to make that 00:41:42.645 --> 00:41:46.065 circle and a quarter on your ribs or on your back because your hand isn't twisted. 00:41:46.735 --> 00:41:48.345 And it feels different. 00:41:48.345 --> 00:41:51.675 It's not just that we kind of lie in bed at night and think of how 00:41:51.675 --> 00:41:53.195 can we have these different names. 00:41:53.355 --> 00:41:54.115 They feel different. 00:41:54.545 --> 00:41:55.285 They feel different. 00:41:55.295 --> 00:41:56.995 They're different for people to use. 00:41:57.265 --> 00:41:59.255 And we want to make it accessible. 00:41:59.575 --> 00:42:04.225 So we want to find things that people that individuals can do easily. 00:42:04.585 --> 00:42:08.055 For instance, if somebody is has loose ligaments or is, you know, 00:42:08.055 --> 00:42:11.605 double jointed, the lying leopard will, or the clouded leopard will 00:42:11.605 --> 00:42:13.015 be the hardest touch for them to do. 00:42:14.015 --> 00:42:17.725 Because when they make contact with the pads of the fingers, 00:42:19.135 --> 00:42:20.595 the first joint collapses. 00:42:22.075 --> 00:42:23.625 Which creates more context. 00:42:23.625 --> 00:42:25.805 So for that person, we'd say, ah, do the chimp. 00:42:25.835 --> 00:42:30.055 So curve your fingers and use the back of the fingers or use the 00:42:30.055 --> 00:42:32.795 flat of the hand so that you're not going to have this direct pressure. 00:42:34.485 --> 00:42:36.815 Rupert Isaacson: If you're in the equine assisted field, or if you're 00:42:36.815 --> 00:42:41.245 considering a career in the equine assisted field, you might want to consider 00:42:41.315 --> 00:42:45.585 taking one of our three neuroscience backed equine assisted programs. 00:42:45.645 --> 00:42:51.225 Horseboy method, now established for 20 years, is the original 00:42:51.820 --> 00:42:58.130 Equine assisted program specifically designed for autism, mentored by and 00:42:58.130 --> 00:43:00.800 developed in conjunction with Dr. 00:43:00.800 --> 00:43:03.680 Temple Grandin and many other neuroscientists. 00:43:04.020 --> 00:43:07.290 We work in the saddle with younger children. 00:43:07.785 --> 00:43:12.735 Helping them create oxytocin in their bodies and neuroplasticity in the brain. 00:43:13.395 --> 00:43:14.835 It works incredibly well. 00:43:14.835 --> 00:43:16.555 It's now in about 40 countries. 00:43:17.265 --> 00:43:18.015 Check it out. 00:43:18.695 --> 00:43:22.845 If you're working without horses, you might want to look at movement 00:43:22.855 --> 00:43:26.225 method, which gets a very, very similar effect, but can also be 00:43:26.225 --> 00:43:27.975 applied in schools, in homes. 00:43:28.175 --> 00:43:33.165 If you're working with families, you can give them really tangible exercises to do 00:43:33.165 --> 00:43:34.705 at home that will create neuroplasticity. 00:43:36.060 --> 00:43:37.340 when they're not with you. 00:43:37.850 --> 00:43:41.290 Finally, we have taquine equine integration. 00:43:41.650 --> 00:43:44.270 If you know anything about our programs, you know that we need a 00:43:44.270 --> 00:43:48.270 really high standard of horsemanship in order to create the oxytocin 00:43:48.300 --> 00:43:52.590 in the body of the person that we're working with, child or adult. 00:43:53.030 --> 00:43:56.370 So, this means we need to train a horse in collection, but this 00:43:56.390 --> 00:44:00.630 also has a really beneficial effect on the horse's well being. 00:44:00.830 --> 00:44:05.120 And it also ends your time conflict, where you're wondering, oh my gosh, how 00:44:05.120 --> 00:44:08.420 am I going to condition my horses and maintain them and give them what they 00:44:08.420 --> 00:44:11.515 need, as well as Serving my clients. 00:44:11.755 --> 00:44:16.255 Takine equine integration aimed at a more adult client base 00:44:16.585 --> 00:44:18.235 absolutely gives you this. 00:44:18.295 --> 00:44:21.935 Why was why was Linda working with these zoo animals? 00:44:22.355 --> 00:44:24.515 How did that come about as a horse person? 00:44:26.425 --> 00:44:28.115 Robyn Hood: Why she was working with the snake? 00:44:28.315 --> 00:44:30.585 Rupert Isaacson: Well, yeah, and other zoo animals, the clouded leopards. 00:44:31.465 --> 00:44:32.735 How did that evolve? 00:44:33.395 --> 00:44:35.335 Robyn Hood: Well, some from the Icelandic horses. 00:44:35.345 --> 00:44:36.065 So, Dr. 00:44:36.065 --> 00:44:39.585 Eason Bugle was the director at the Zurich Zoo, and he also had Icelandic 00:44:39.585 --> 00:44:44.055 horses, and he saw what Linda was doing, and he said, well, do you think it could 00:44:44.055 --> 00:44:46.235 help this, whatever the animal was? 00:44:46.235 --> 00:44:49.925 And so she went, she was having a, you know, like a tour of the zoo, and these 00:44:50.505 --> 00:44:55.525 little cubs had a distemper and were like frothing at the nose and so on. 00:44:55.525 --> 00:44:59.875 And she did the raccoon touch, the very, very small touches 00:44:59.875 --> 00:45:01.295 of the tips of the fingers. 00:45:01.650 --> 00:45:04.720 All around the nose, the face and so on. 00:45:04.760 --> 00:45:11.520 And she only did it on one and the others watched and benefited as well. 00:45:12.845 --> 00:45:17.855 Which again is, there's so many things that we don't understand in this life 00:45:17.905 --> 00:45:21.145 and it doesn't mean that they don't work because they all recovered and 00:45:21.145 --> 00:45:22.545 they didn't think that they would. 00:45:22.985 --> 00:45:26.875 Rupert Isaacson: It's very interesting you know that we we have something 00:45:26.875 --> 00:45:30.625 in within horseboy method called sensory work which came out of when 00:45:30.625 --> 00:45:34.655 my son first started going to Betsy the horse that he made the first 00:45:34.655 --> 00:45:36.985 contact with he would just lie on her. 00:45:37.265 --> 00:45:43.015 And I would keep a hand on him to, you know, steady him, but she would graze and 00:45:43.015 --> 00:45:49.355 he would use her body like a big old couch and, but he would find ways he would have 00:45:49.355 --> 00:45:51.145 certain preferred ways to lie on her. 00:45:51.995 --> 00:45:56.660 And when he would turn around on her and lie. 00:45:57.150 --> 00:46:00.710 With his head on her butt, which, and sort of hug the butt, 00:46:00.710 --> 00:46:01.940 we call that the butt hug now. 00:46:02.090 --> 00:46:04.040 You know, within horse boy method. 00:46:05.510 --> 00:46:08.750 The effects on her would be the same as the effect on him. 00:46:09.540 --> 00:46:12.760 She would effectively go into almost a state of hypnosis. 00:46:13.540 --> 00:46:15.510 All his sensory stuff would calm down. 00:46:16.350 --> 00:46:19.100 Her sensory system would clearly calm down. 00:46:19.510 --> 00:46:24.290 But as you say, the other animals in the vicinity, because there were always two 00:46:24.290 --> 00:46:30.250 other horses in the field, whenever he did that, would always begin to come closer. 00:46:31.580 --> 00:46:38.190 And then absolutely mimic the same nervous system release. 00:46:39.730 --> 00:46:44.580 Sort of hypnotic state almost literally drooling with a sort of a string of 00:46:44.580 --> 00:46:49.100 drool Connecting their mouths to the to the grass that she was and we've 00:46:49.100 --> 00:46:51.470 seen this time and time and time again. 00:46:52.380 --> 00:46:53.240 And as you know 00:46:55.260 --> 00:47:01.330 The hormones that we produce for stress are fairly contagious You 00:47:01.330 --> 00:47:05.450 know, they you can that's why you know crowds are dangerous 00:47:07.650 --> 00:47:13.090 but equally what's not so talked about is that pleasure and comfort 00:47:13.130 --> 00:47:17.640 and soothing also seems to be the contact high effectively. 00:47:18.260 --> 00:47:21.760 So when you talked about those clouded leopards, I was thinking about the other 00:47:21.760 --> 00:47:25.400 horses just, and I've observed this with TTouch when, when Linda's been at 00:47:25.400 --> 00:47:29.040 our place and has been working on one of our horses, any horse that's within 00:47:29.040 --> 00:47:33.510 about 25, 30 feet is clearly benefiting. 00:47:34.100 --> 00:47:35.610 and clearly participating. 00:47:36.280 --> 00:47:40.400 When you're moving the skin in these ways, where you're sort of lifting, 00:47:40.640 --> 00:47:43.690 whether it's the python lift or whether it's the owl, or whether it's 00:47:43.690 --> 00:47:51.850 the clouded leopard, are you working with fascia, or are you working with 00:47:51.900 --> 00:47:54.260 epidermis, or are you working with both? 00:47:54.290 --> 00:47:59.070 What do you feel you're accessing mostly, or most directly? 00:48:00.210 --> 00:48:00.990 Robyn Hood: I have no idea. 00:48:01.300 --> 00:48:01.590 Rupert Isaacson: Hmm. 00:48:02.060 --> 00:48:02.690 That's an honest answer. 00:48:02.690 --> 00:48:03.010 You know, 00:48:03.450 --> 00:48:07.170 Robyn Hood: it's Ricky Schultz is a vet in Denmark and she wrote with another 00:48:07.170 --> 00:48:10.970 German a book on fascia a couple of years ago for for dogs and for horses. 00:48:10.970 --> 00:48:12.170 And she spent three months Fascia, 00:48:12.170 --> 00:48:12.420 Rupert Isaacson: isn't it? 00:48:12.420 --> 00:48:12.850 I'm sorry. 00:48:12.850 --> 00:48:13.460 I had to go there. 00:48:13.930 --> 00:48:14.400 Robyn Hood: Yeah, right. 00:48:14.400 --> 00:48:14.850 There you go. 00:48:15.110 --> 00:48:18.500 She was she spent three months with me on my farm when she was in vet school. 00:48:19.000 --> 00:48:21.440 And and then in, I think in about 2000 and. 00:48:21.875 --> 00:48:26.325 12 as a vet, she wrote she wrote an article called a woman ahead of her 00:48:26.325 --> 00:48:31.495 time about, about Linda and T Touch and it was her feeling that the, 00:48:31.635 --> 00:48:36.325 that the touches affected connective tissue, which connective tissue is 00:48:36.815 --> 00:48:39.975 Fascia is connective tissue, but not all connective tissue is fascia. 00:48:39.985 --> 00:48:41.825 So it's very, very, very connected. 00:48:42.395 --> 00:48:48.335 And in their very old route, like a form of of body work and, you know, 00:48:48.415 --> 00:48:51.305 instead of meridians, like fascia, like fascia, connective tissue 00:48:51.335 --> 00:48:56.255 carries information faster into more areas of body than, than meridian. 00:48:56.415 --> 00:48:58.035 So we don't have to know where they are. 00:48:58.775 --> 00:49:05.405 That's actually, The beauty of this work is so my, my interest is, is 00:49:05.405 --> 00:49:07.175 finding out what the horse says. 00:49:07.225 --> 00:49:08.715 Yes, this is acceptable for me. 00:49:08.715 --> 00:49:10.315 That's the most important thing is. 00:49:10.735 --> 00:49:13.335 Oh, yeah, then they might go. 00:49:13.335 --> 00:49:14.125 Oh, I'm not sure. 00:49:14.125 --> 00:49:15.475 And then you change it a little bit. 00:49:15.485 --> 00:49:19.905 You change the pressure, the speed, the type of touch, the part of the hand. 00:49:20.095 --> 00:49:21.415 You may do a pause. 00:49:21.885 --> 00:49:25.255 And then you go to where they seem okay, and then you kind of move 00:49:25.255 --> 00:49:27.395 away and they go, ah, you get it. 00:49:27.885 --> 00:49:32.675 And from there is when, so, so I feel that that interaction of 00:49:33.145 --> 00:49:39.585 having that animal say, yes, this is okay, is the most important. 00:49:40.400 --> 00:49:41.480 thing that we do. 00:49:41.500 --> 00:49:41.970 So what? 00:49:42.000 --> 00:49:46.210 That's why we also have so many touches because if and when someone 00:49:46.210 --> 00:49:49.200 says my animal can't be touched, I'll kind of go, what have you done? 00:49:49.260 --> 00:49:53.200 And it's like, because if you, you multiply the types of touches with 00:49:53.200 --> 00:49:57.150 the pressure, with the speed, with the direction, and you have infinite numbers. 00:49:57.470 --> 00:50:01.660 Now, we also have the body wraps and what I've started. 00:50:01.720 --> 00:50:02.390 That's what I was going 00:50:02.390 --> 00:50:03.290 Rupert Isaacson: to ask you about next. 00:50:03.300 --> 00:50:04.500 So thank you for taking us there. 00:50:04.610 --> 00:50:04.790 Yeah. 00:50:04.790 --> 00:50:05.155 Robyn Hood: Okay. 00:50:05.385 --> 00:50:05.685 All right. 00:50:06.285 --> 00:50:11.015 So, of course, the body wraps basically bring information 00:50:11.565 --> 00:50:12.485 through the nervous system. 00:50:12.495 --> 00:50:16.335 When I talked to Ricky Schultz about it, she said they also follow fascia lines. 00:50:16.345 --> 00:50:17.675 So maybe that's part of it. 00:50:17.975 --> 00:50:20.415 And what they affect is the superficial fascia. 00:50:20.845 --> 00:50:23.915 And it's, you know, it's interesting how these things progress because I, you 00:50:23.915 --> 00:50:26.925 know, when you were talking about, you know, the sensory integration and so on, 00:50:26.925 --> 00:50:31.375 is that we do things because they work. 00:50:32.235 --> 00:50:34.055 And if they don't work, we do something else. 00:50:34.075 --> 00:50:35.225 And then later on. 00:50:35.535 --> 00:50:40.565 The science proves that they work and it's kind of like, Oh, good. 00:50:40.565 --> 00:50:41.915 Well, we've known that for a long time. 00:50:41.915 --> 00:50:44.765 But, you know, that's kind of nice to have that that sort of validation. 00:50:45.365 --> 00:50:50.865 And so the, the body wraps, give them a sense of where they are in space. 00:50:50.895 --> 00:50:54.825 They're not intended to be give support, but rather feedback. 00:50:55.935 --> 00:50:59.555 What I've started to do is take the wraps because we always did belly lifts. 00:50:59.575 --> 00:51:01.945 Belly lifts are amazing with wraps. 00:51:01.945 --> 00:51:04.745 We started out, you know, for colic with towels and so on. 00:51:05.875 --> 00:51:11.745 The wraps are so much more subtle and my experience is that horses respond 00:51:11.745 --> 00:51:15.945 so well and dogs too, especially if they have any touch sensitivity. 00:51:16.065 --> 00:51:20.745 So any kind of touch defensiveness, which many beings have, the, 00:51:20.795 --> 00:51:23.145 the wraps can be useful. 00:51:23.155 --> 00:51:24.905 So started taking a wrap. 00:51:25.445 --> 00:51:29.105 And instead of putting it necessarily around the body is taking it across 00:51:29.105 --> 00:51:33.555 the body, and either just just put it on the body and either just stretch 00:51:33.555 --> 00:51:39.075 it a little, and then pause and slowly carry release the stretch, or. 00:51:39.940 --> 00:51:44.060 Putting it against the body so that it's, you know, kind of firmly placed, and 00:51:44.060 --> 00:51:46.250 then moving it in a circle and a quarter. 00:51:46.280 --> 00:51:47.670 Once again, you're moving tissue. 00:51:48.290 --> 00:51:53.990 This is way less threatening for beings that have touch, you know, concerns. 00:51:54.570 --> 00:51:59.160 And, or, we started actually with a horse that had a very roached back. 00:51:59.680 --> 00:52:02.960 And of course we have always done, you know, lifts on the legs with the 00:52:02.960 --> 00:52:06.150 wraps, and, you know, so that you're supporting the tissue up a bit, 00:52:06.150 --> 00:52:09.290 and along the neck is also amazing. 00:52:09.780 --> 00:52:12.980 But we thought, well, what would happen if we took it across the top of the 00:52:12.980 --> 00:52:18.160 back, and we actually just gently stretched it down and paused, and 00:52:18.160 --> 00:52:20.440 then we slowly released the stretch. 00:52:20.780 --> 00:52:23.800 And the horse's back went from being really roachy to flattening. 00:52:24.600 --> 00:52:29.920 And that was our first thought of, wow, this could be pretty interesting to do. 00:52:29.930 --> 00:52:34.050 So I have a, one of our instructors in Australia works with a lot of 00:52:34.050 --> 00:52:37.760 racehorses, and she, she uses this with. 00:52:38.340 --> 00:52:41.410 horses with kissing spine, horses with a lot of things that are 00:52:41.460 --> 00:52:45.450 super fit for work, so they can be really sensitive about contact. 00:52:45.870 --> 00:52:50.310 And when I showed this to Rikki Schultz, she said, yes, I think you're really 00:52:50.310 --> 00:52:51.870 affecting the superficial fascia. 00:52:51.870 --> 00:52:53.630 So we call it fascial integration. 00:52:54.930 --> 00:52:58.700 And it's it's interesting because Of course, everybody wants to go 00:52:58.720 --> 00:53:02.230 everything deep and, you know, the fascia, the iron, the fascia, and so on. 00:53:02.230 --> 00:53:03.530 And now, gee, guess what? 00:53:04.000 --> 00:53:08.430 They're finding that maybe it actually is a little more beneficial to do less. 00:53:09.650 --> 00:53:10.830 Rupert Isaacson: Can you describe the wraps? 00:53:10.830 --> 00:53:13.340 I think it's hard for people that haven't seen the body wraps. 00:53:13.420 --> 00:53:16.060 To know what it is you're talking about. 00:53:16.060 --> 00:53:19.420 So, just for listeners, we're not talking about the the horse resembling 00:53:19.420 --> 00:53:25.620 an Egyptian mummy These are Specific wraps that go around specific parts of 00:53:25.620 --> 00:53:30.210 the body and one of the things which I love about them is that you can do 00:53:30.210 --> 00:53:34.690 them in movement And they can have all sorts of beneficial effects there too. 00:53:35.060 --> 00:53:36.940 Could you describe to us please Robin? 00:53:37.465 --> 00:53:42.425 You know, a fairly typical series of types of wrap you would do. 00:53:43.225 --> 00:53:44.695 More or less what they look like. 00:53:44.705 --> 00:53:47.205 What are you actually using for the wraps? 00:53:47.705 --> 00:53:51.155 And, you know, for somebody to get a bit of a pictorial 00:53:51.155 --> 00:53:52.485 understanding of it in their head. 00:53:53.605 --> 00:53:56.765 Robyn Hood: If you've ever had a sprained ankle or a sprained wrist 00:53:56.765 --> 00:54:01.475 or whatever, you will have had some sort of tensor bandage on your wrist. 00:54:01.530 --> 00:54:04.196 You know, you can put it on your wrist or your or your ankle. 00:54:04.196 --> 00:54:07.059 Now on your ankle, they probably put it rather tight for support. 00:54:07.059 --> 00:54:10.569 So it felt good at first, but then it would start to ache after a while. 00:54:10.969 --> 00:54:15.509 So literally, it's any type of elastic bandage. 00:54:15.509 --> 00:54:19.529 Now we pay attention to the amount of stretch there is, but in general, 00:54:19.729 --> 00:54:24.709 even if you had a leg wrap for the horse, the challenge is the German 00:54:24.709 --> 00:54:27.939 ones are really tight, the stretch, but there's some that are really soft. 00:54:28.794 --> 00:54:30.204 You take a wrap. 00:54:30.224 --> 00:54:32.864 The first thing that I would do you could use a polo wrap. 00:54:32.934 --> 00:54:35.164 I mean, if that's what you have and you have nothing else, 00:54:35.164 --> 00:54:36.254 you could use a polo wrap. 00:54:36.394 --> 00:54:38.134 It won't give you the same amount of stretch. 00:54:38.184 --> 00:54:38.504 Rupert Isaacson: Okay. 00:54:38.534 --> 00:54:40.294 So ideally, what wrap would you use? 00:54:41.614 --> 00:54:44.244 Robyn Hood: Depends where you live, because there's a lot of ideas. 00:54:44.244 --> 00:54:48.604 So what I do is we use a lot of ace wraps. 00:54:48.604 --> 00:54:49.724 We use Hartman. 00:54:49.724 --> 00:54:53.164 There's different companies that, that make, they're basically 00:54:53.164 --> 00:54:54.599 medical elastic elastic. 00:54:54.769 --> 00:54:56.459 Generally, all cotton is good. 00:54:56.469 --> 00:55:01.109 That's what A stands for, all cotton, elastic, no latex, because it changes 00:55:01.109 --> 00:55:04.349 the way the stretch is, but there's lots that, that are available. 00:55:04.959 --> 00:55:12.129 So, with a, the average horse, a, I would use a 4 inch or 10 00:55:12.129 --> 00:55:18.029 centimeter, that they is pretty common to be, to be sold in the store. 00:55:18.049 --> 00:55:21.629 And that's what most Polo wraps are, is they're about 10 centimeters wide. 00:55:22.569 --> 00:55:25.259 I would start with it just going around the base of the neck. 00:55:26.329 --> 00:55:29.699 And what it does is it helps to release that so many horses brace 00:55:29.699 --> 00:55:33.059 at the base of the neck, and it just gives them an awareness about. 00:55:34.554 --> 00:55:36.734 can they, can they release your, that base of the neck? 00:55:36.734 --> 00:55:37.654 It's the same with people. 00:55:37.664 --> 00:55:40.234 You put a very light wrap around the shoulders. 00:55:40.874 --> 00:55:43.334 They may not, ideally they don't feel it. 00:55:43.344 --> 00:55:45.074 It's not feeling tight. 00:55:45.354 --> 00:55:49.444 And you'll notice in maybe 15 or 20 minutes, the shoulders start to let go. 00:55:49.544 --> 00:55:52.004 They start to actually let go into that wrap. 00:55:52.434 --> 00:55:55.864 So the same kind of thing that I might do, the easiest thing to do, start 00:55:55.864 --> 00:55:57.234 with it around the base of the neck. 00:55:58.484 --> 00:56:02.384 With young horses, the next step that we would do is we would put it around 00:56:02.424 --> 00:56:07.144 the girth area and attach it to the Base wrap or the right wrap that's 00:56:07.144 --> 00:56:10.754 around the base of the neck because we want to prepare them for the feeling 00:56:10.754 --> 00:56:14.194 of something around their middles, you know, or a horse that happens to 00:56:14.194 --> 00:56:18.994 be girthy or, you know, sort of cold backed and so on can also be beneficial. 00:56:19.634 --> 00:56:24.994 Then I, I, ideally you move them after each, after each thing that you, that 00:56:24.994 --> 00:56:29.994 you add if you can, especially the first time, because you can be surprised at the 00:56:29.994 --> 00:56:32.054 amount of change in posture that happens. 00:56:32.934 --> 00:56:36.494 It's just a simple wrap or even a wrap when you move, when you say 00:56:36.494 --> 00:56:37.724 Rupert Isaacson: move them, would you take the wrap off 00:56:37.724 --> 00:56:39.234 and move them or would you move 00:56:39.364 --> 00:56:41.704 Robyn Hood: them with the wrap on take, take them for a little walk 00:56:41.764 --> 00:56:45.594 just to see, just, I mean, just move them a little bit to see what 00:56:45.594 --> 00:56:46.964 does there a change in the posture? 00:56:46.974 --> 00:56:51.774 Is there a change in their balance point is, do they now have a leg at 00:56:51.774 --> 00:56:53.624 each corner or are they really straddle? 00:56:53.624 --> 00:56:55.714 You may see, are they really leaning forward? 00:56:55.714 --> 00:56:59.074 They may take them back so that the chest comes over the front legs. 00:56:59.489 --> 00:56:59.929 You don't know. 00:57:00.189 --> 00:57:01.399 You just observe. 00:57:01.609 --> 00:57:04.659 That's where it's a good practice to simply observe what you're seeing. 00:57:05.519 --> 00:57:09.369 And because this is the other thing, you know, about, about T Touch when I went 00:57:09.379 --> 00:57:12.069 into the sort of application that we have. 00:57:12.949 --> 00:57:16.449 Most body work doesn't take them into kind of mindful movement. 00:57:16.449 --> 00:57:19.659 It's changing a little bit now, but that's what's so important, because 00:57:19.659 --> 00:57:25.644 if we can't change how they move, Just standing still and releasing isn't really 00:57:25.644 --> 00:57:30.174 useful because most people ride their horses or they do something with them. 00:57:30.464 --> 00:57:34.294 And that's why we want to take it and the wraps can help to take that into movement. 00:57:34.934 --> 00:57:38.804 So that's the simplest thing that I have people start with. 00:57:38.814 --> 00:57:40.024 Now, if a horse. 00:57:40.669 --> 00:57:46.159 has worn a rug, like worn some kind of blanket, and they're comfortable 00:57:46.169 --> 00:57:51.689 around things around their hind end, then we might add a wrap that 00:57:51.689 --> 00:57:53.889 goes around the hind quarters. 00:57:54.969 --> 00:57:59.459 Now, what I've started to do is chunking down, because that's the thing, when 00:57:59.459 --> 00:58:05.529 we can break things into small pieces, we can make it easier for people even 00:58:05.529 --> 00:58:07.749 to observe and for horses to accept. 00:58:08.589 --> 00:58:15.219 So I might take that wrap and just between my two hands stretch it 00:58:15.219 --> 00:58:19.439 across the like just one side of the rear end maybe to the tail like so 00:58:19.439 --> 00:58:20.819 it's going just around the buttocks. 00:58:20.819 --> 00:58:24.429 Do a little stretch, pause, and slowly release. 00:58:24.429 --> 00:58:25.689 I might do that from both sides. 00:58:25.879 --> 00:58:29.709 That's going to give you an idea of how the horse might feel when you 00:58:29.709 --> 00:58:34.619 put a little figure eight wrap that goes around the chest, crosses over 00:58:34.619 --> 00:58:39.379 the withers, comes back around the hindquarters, and attaches back to itself, 00:58:39.379 --> 00:58:45.249 which would take two or three wraps depending on the length of your wraps. 00:58:46.989 --> 00:58:52.959 Rupert Isaacson: Okay, so you also do a wrap which I've seen, it's intriguing 00:58:52.959 --> 00:58:54.409 to me, around the top of the head. 00:58:55.809 --> 00:58:57.069 Please talk to me about that. 00:58:59.169 --> 00:59:03.539 Robyn Hood: Once again, one of the things that has been so helpful for 00:59:03.539 --> 00:59:06.389 us, you know, you asked how did Linda, you know, how does a horse person go 00:59:06.389 --> 00:59:07.769 to work with these different animals? 00:59:08.259 --> 00:59:16.924 I would say, That I have learned as much working with species that are unfamiliar 00:59:16.924 --> 00:59:22.684 to me and transferring that information to species that are familiar to me, then with 00:59:22.754 --> 00:59:27.424 the knowledge that I have, because as you say, if you're a long time horse person, 00:59:27.424 --> 00:59:32.194 you know, quote unquote, what's right, what's wrong, how, you know, how you do 00:59:32.194 --> 00:59:37.504 things and when you go to a species, you don't know much about or anything about. 00:59:38.144 --> 00:59:41.894 You have to open your mind to something else. 00:59:41.914 --> 00:59:46.404 And so then, so with the head wraps, it started with a dog. 00:59:47.444 --> 00:59:48.464 I remember the dog. 00:59:48.514 --> 00:59:53.414 I had a little face wrap on him because he was doing a lot of barking and so on, 00:59:53.434 --> 00:59:55.544 just to bring awareness around his muzzle. 00:59:56.194 --> 00:59:58.934 And he took his paw and he pushed it up to his forehead. 00:59:59.724 --> 01:00:04.854 And so here, here it is across the forehead and he was absolutely calm 01:00:04.854 --> 01:00:06.334 and quiet and totally okay with it. 01:00:07.239 --> 01:00:11.299 And so I showed this at one of our advanced trainings and one 01:00:11.299 --> 01:00:15.059 of our vets who is a holistic vet said, you know, could be. 01:00:15.669 --> 01:00:18.829 That so the, the, the, the front of the forehead is the 01:00:18.839 --> 01:00:20.339 start of the governing vessel. 01:00:20.619 --> 01:00:22.079 And that is a common point. 01:00:22.089 --> 01:00:23.859 So it could be, and it's not about pressure. 01:00:23.999 --> 01:00:27.609 It's just about this little awareness that maybe that's one 01:00:27.609 --> 01:00:28.919 of the things that's calming them. 01:00:29.459 --> 01:00:32.209 Now, we were discussing this at the celebration last weekend. 01:00:33.294 --> 01:00:37.124 The other thing is, is that the, the head wrap, where the points that it 01:00:37.124 --> 01:00:41.024 does, maybe what it does is it connects our new brain to our old brain. 01:00:42.004 --> 01:00:46.254 And so it's connecting the different parts, sort of different 01:00:46.284 --> 01:00:48.734 neurological parts of the body. 01:00:50.279 --> 01:00:54.969 What we've seen with horses that are, like, say, really hyper excited, 01:00:55.029 --> 01:00:59.329 concerned about things, wrap, and I usually start with just take it twice 01:00:59.329 --> 01:01:03.439 around the neck, a little, little bit behind the ears, and then bring 01:01:03.439 --> 01:01:05.399 one of them forward over the ears. 01:01:05.429 --> 01:01:07.869 That's the easiest way to do it for someone. 01:01:08.769 --> 01:01:10.809 Horses will suddenly calm down. 01:01:11.329 --> 01:01:14.674 They will be, they, they'll still look around, but they're, it, 01:01:14.679 --> 01:01:16.129 it just takes 'em down a notch. 01:01:16.129 --> 01:01:20.899 Now, if you put it on a horse that's really quiet, it can make them too quiet. 01:01:21.679 --> 01:01:23.839 So you just take it off and then it, it's okay. 01:01:23.869 --> 01:01:29.999 I think that it also helps them come more into their own bodies rather 01:01:29.999 --> 01:01:32.849 than being external, you know, they're these external horses that 01:01:32.909 --> 01:01:36.839 they're just aware of everything but not themselves, and I think it helps 01:01:36.839 --> 01:01:38.549 to bring them more into themselves. 01:01:38.549 --> 01:01:39.419 Certainly helps people. 01:01:41.479 --> 01:01:44.059 Rupert Isaacson: I've seen Linda when she was out with us, we had three 01:01:44.059 --> 01:01:46.399 stallions who could be quite stallion y. 01:01:46.699 --> 01:01:51.369 And she would sometimes work with her fingers inside the mouth. 01:01:51.749 --> 01:01:55.409 Not as in jaw flexions, but actually on the gums around the front of the teeth. 01:01:55.409 --> 01:01:58.489 I remember the first time I saw her do it, I was like, oh gosh, 01:01:58.529 --> 01:01:59.559 I hope you don't lose a finger. 01:02:00.049 --> 01:02:04.289 And quite the opposite this seemed to be a massively calming 01:02:04.289 --> 01:02:05.529 experience for the horses. 01:02:05.979 --> 01:02:08.759 Can you talk to us a little bit about those, those gum releases 01:02:08.879 --> 01:02:10.539 and how, what, how they work? 01:02:11.944 --> 01:02:15.974 Robyn Hood: Yeah, so the multitouch, if we think about that, the mouth is 01:02:15.974 --> 01:02:20.414 one of the closest connections we have to the limbic system, really primary 01:02:20.584 --> 01:02:25.764 controller of lots of different, you know, basic functions of the body. 01:02:26.304 --> 01:02:31.194 And we can see that in horses and dogs and people, you know, and where people 01:02:31.194 --> 01:02:34.574 will say yes, I'm just fine and their upper lip is like really stiff and 01:02:34.574 --> 01:02:36.154 really tight when they're totally not. 01:02:36.519 --> 01:02:37.029 Fine. 01:02:37.379 --> 01:02:39.109 And we see it with horses, too. 01:02:39.529 --> 01:02:43.349 And so what we found is that, and, and I recommend to people who aren't 01:02:43.359 --> 01:02:47.489 so familiar with horses is, you know, start with the backs of your fingers or 01:02:47.489 --> 01:02:54.149 fingers curved and, and do some circular touches around the outside of the muscle. 01:02:55.054 --> 01:02:55.394 And 01:02:56.004 --> 01:02:58.914 Robyn Hood: you want to hold one hand lightly on the halter on the other 01:02:58.914 --> 01:03:01.514 hand, because it's about steadying the horse, like giving the horse a little 01:03:01.514 --> 01:03:05.024 bit of a parameter without, you know, holding tightly, but you're safer 01:03:05.024 --> 01:03:06.154 that way you're in better balance. 01:03:06.974 --> 01:03:10.514 And so you can go around and the, and the chin used to feel around the chin when 01:03:10.524 --> 01:03:15.954 horses are super generally emotional about something, the chin may be super tight, 01:03:16.044 --> 01:03:20.364 really, really tight so this touch brings awareness people have the same thing. 01:03:21.734 --> 01:03:23.744 Going around the outside and then. 01:03:24.169 --> 01:03:28.559 You can we have, you know, we teach people about keeping their fingers together 01:03:28.559 --> 01:03:33.779 and being able to go in up on the side of the mouth or just gently taking your 01:03:33.979 --> 01:03:37.939 side of your index finger and coming around the inside of the upper lip or 01:03:37.939 --> 01:03:40.339 the lower lip thumb is really helpful. 01:03:41.069 --> 01:03:44.209 And it's actually the thing we recommend to Maori horses, which 01:03:44.209 --> 01:03:48.819 is the exact opposite of what you know, people would actually expect. 01:03:49.489 --> 01:03:51.459 And, you know, I mean, you can learn so much. 01:03:51.459 --> 01:03:55.309 I remember I was teaching somewhere and they had a, you know, a young quarter 01:03:55.309 --> 01:03:59.929 horse and the horse had started to become really difficult to bridle. 01:03:59.949 --> 01:04:02.529 And so what I did is I went and I did some work on the outside 01:04:02.529 --> 01:04:03.619 of the mouth and I went in. 01:04:03.904 --> 01:04:08.734 where the gum meets the upper lip with the side of my index finger and just 01:04:08.754 --> 01:04:11.044 kind of gently rubbing back and forth. 01:04:11.104 --> 01:04:13.044 And if the mouth is dry, wet your hand. 01:04:14.144 --> 01:04:18.784 And what I felt was he had a tooth that was cracked and it was hanging. 01:04:19.264 --> 01:04:22.074 So he was young and he was changing his teeth. 01:04:22.284 --> 01:04:24.414 So imagine what that would feel like for him. 01:04:24.854 --> 01:04:28.304 Yes, he's cooperative about being bit, having the bit in, and then 01:04:28.314 --> 01:04:31.684 he starts to change his teeth and it hits the, hits the tooth. 01:04:32.819 --> 01:04:34.009 Wonder he didn't want it in. 01:04:34.379 --> 01:04:37.339 Once they could understand that, they changed what they did. 01:04:37.709 --> 01:04:43.949 And I think that one of our, I think the biggest, the most important aspect of 01:04:43.949 --> 01:04:51.839 this work is to understand that behavior is a form of communication, particularly 01:04:51.839 --> 01:04:57.119 if you have a horse that suddenly the behavior changes, really look deeply, 01:04:57.199 --> 01:05:01.419 because in my experience, there is. 01:05:01.904 --> 01:05:02.924 Always a reason. 01:05:03.414 --> 01:05:03.864 Always. 01:05:08.364 --> 01:05:09.384 Rupert Isaacson: Just writing that down. 01:05:12.574 --> 01:05:14.774 Behaviour is a form of communication. 01:05:14.824 --> 01:05:15.904 Look deeply. 01:05:16.804 --> 01:05:18.204 There's always a reason. 01:05:18.284 --> 01:05:18.824 I love that. 01:05:20.084 --> 01:05:22.944 Robyn Hood: And I, I can tell you that there have been times that I've worked 01:05:22.944 --> 01:05:27.604 with horses and I've thought to myself maybe this one just doesn't, you know, 01:05:27.804 --> 01:05:31.674 maybe there's one that now they're just, and I have to tell you that on those 01:05:31.674 --> 01:05:37.114 horses I've found that there's been such a reason that they didn't cooperate. 01:05:37.549 --> 01:05:42.359 That it was a miracle that they could do what they could and, and it's often 01:05:42.409 --> 01:05:45.049 not found until a dissection is done. 01:05:45.539 --> 01:05:50.159 And in the dissection and there, I mean, Sharon May Davies is doing amazing work 01:05:50.169 --> 01:05:54.359 with doing dissections and usually they're on animals that people have gone through 01:05:54.479 --> 01:05:57.519 everything, you know, like all sorts of. 01:05:58.319 --> 01:06:02.489 You know, sort of westernized and allopathic and some holistic 01:06:02.569 --> 01:06:07.139 medicine, and they've, there's nothing that can change what's going on. 01:06:07.159 --> 01:06:11.309 And when they do a dissection, they find that organs are in the wrong place. 01:06:11.319 --> 01:06:16.029 Things are, there's, ribs are in different, in different configurations. 01:06:16.029 --> 01:06:23.729 So I consider That it's a miracle what horses actually do for us in reality. 01:06:24.319 --> 01:06:25.279 Rupert Isaacson: No, I, I agree. 01:06:25.299 --> 01:06:31.379 And it's, it's an interesting thing too that in our current season of 01:06:31.379 --> 01:06:36.499 horsemanship in the West there's of course a very well meaning and it comes 01:06:36.499 --> 01:06:40.109 from a good place emphasis on, you know, we don't want our horses to suffer. 01:06:40.109 --> 01:06:44.959 So trying to do less or ask less or put less pressure on or whatever. 01:06:45.789 --> 01:06:46.219 And. 01:06:46.974 --> 01:06:51.174 One of the things that one often gets told is, well, you know, a horse can feel 01:06:51.174 --> 01:06:52.844 a fly, you know, walking on its back. 01:06:53.104 --> 01:06:54.894 Well, yes, but so can I, 01:06:55.344 --> 01:06:55.634 and I 01:06:55.634 --> 01:06:56.414 Rupert Isaacson: can feel that. 01:06:57.004 --> 01:07:00.754 And sometimes feeling feels not good. 01:07:00.784 --> 01:07:02.324 And sometimes that feeling feels good. 01:07:02.954 --> 01:07:08.984 And I can wear a backpack and hike up a mountain, even if that backpack isn't. 01:07:09.449 --> 01:07:15.889 Made customized for me and if my shoulders are a bit sore after a day or two of 01:07:15.889 --> 01:07:19.559 that They seem to get less sore later unless there's something desperately 01:07:19.559 --> 01:07:24.879 wrong with the backpack or it's just way too heavy or something So that we 01:07:24.879 --> 01:07:26.259 seem to have gotten to a point where? 01:07:26.589 --> 01:07:30.649 We're being told that anything with the sympathetic nervous system any kind 01:07:30.649 --> 01:07:37.229 of stress is automatically bad And, of course, this isn't necessarily so. 01:07:38.649 --> 01:07:42.039 So, yeah, horses can be very stoic about what they put up with people, too. 01:07:42.589 --> 01:07:48.429 And I think people often go through life bearing an awful lot of discomfort, 01:07:48.709 --> 01:07:50.399 but not necessarily suffering. 01:07:51.019 --> 01:07:52.449 Because it becomes familiar. 01:07:52.529 --> 01:07:54.369 Sometimes suffering, sometimes not. 01:07:54.539 --> 01:07:57.409 Like, something That you mentioned like the tooth hanging 01:07:57.429 --> 01:07:58.659 and knocking against a bit. 01:07:59.109 --> 01:08:00.399 No doubt, you know 01:08:02.469 --> 01:08:06.099 But if someone maybe had the ribs in the wrong place I'm equating it to a 01:08:06.099 --> 01:08:10.789 human now or an organ in a weird place but had sort of learned to compensate 01:08:10.789 --> 01:08:11.769 for that and go through life or 01:08:14.434 --> 01:08:19.234 Are they suffering they might communicate that they are or they might not 01:08:19.244 --> 01:08:23.184 communicate they are or they might say no I'm actually not this is sort of my 01:08:23.184 --> 01:08:26.484 reality This sort of feels all right to me and then maybe an autopsy would be 01:08:26.484 --> 01:08:29.254 done on them and one would look at them go My god, how did you get through life? 01:08:30.204 --> 01:08:30.814 So to me? 01:08:30.814 --> 01:08:35.534 It's an endless mystery as you say and a miracle I mean, there's the other 01:08:35.594 --> 01:08:39.734 thing too, which is that God didn't invent ponies to carry monkeys, right? 01:08:39.734 --> 01:08:46.289 So just by sitting up there we're Got to to some degree negatively affect 01:08:46.789 --> 01:08:50.599 the thing that's carrying us and yet at the same time a horse can go on 01:08:50.599 --> 01:08:55.709 into their 30s quite happily carting monkeys about As you say it's a miracle 01:08:58.079 --> 01:09:03.049 And speaking of miracles, you know when we go into the the sphere of the therapeutic. 01:09:04.289 --> 01:09:08.404 I always feel that that's where You enter this sort of quantum 01:09:09.034 --> 01:09:14.574 area with horses where Suddenly what you think you know about them 01:09:17.734 --> 01:09:23.064 Dissolves into a miasma of what's actually going on and you yourself told 01:09:23.064 --> 01:09:27.254 me a story I'd love it if you would retell that story about the girl with 01:09:27.254 --> 01:09:33.724 cerebral palsy Because I think that that really illustrates that point. 01:09:33.734 --> 01:09:36.444 Would you be so kind as to tell listeners that story? 01:09:37.074 --> 01:09:38.934 Robyn Hood: Yeah, and I do think 01:09:40.974 --> 01:09:43.874 I do think that horses are here to teach us a lot. 01:09:43.904 --> 01:09:44.844 I really do believe that. 01:09:45.074 --> 01:09:45.664 And I think it. 01:09:46.244 --> 01:09:48.014 That we still have to be their stewards 01:09:48.204 --> 01:09:49.054 Rupert Isaacson: without a doubt. 01:09:49.484 --> 01:09:52.764 Robyn Hood: You know, that's the so I think we have to look at a lot of things. 01:09:52.764 --> 01:09:59.264 So, about, I don't know, 35 years ago, I was approached by a family that 01:09:59.274 --> 01:10:02.924 had she'd been taking writing lessons at the local therapeutic writing. 01:10:04.959 --> 01:10:06.069 Facility and 01:10:06.489 --> 01:10:06.899 Rupert Isaacson: Canada. 01:10:07.209 --> 01:10:07.909 Robyn Hood: This is in Canada. 01:10:07.909 --> 01:10:10.589 And she wanted to they want to get a horse for and we, we 01:10:10.589 --> 01:10:11.999 bred Icelandics at that point. 01:10:11.999 --> 01:10:15.929 And I had a young Icelandic, like, we don't start our horses until 01:10:15.929 --> 01:10:20.409 they're 4 and then we, we start really riding them maybe at 5 and carry on. 01:10:20.839 --> 01:10:24.409 And so I said, well, come on out and I have a horse that might be useful 01:10:24.419 --> 01:10:26.039 because I wanted a really smooth horse. 01:10:26.669 --> 01:10:29.489 And this was a gelding who actually had no trot. 01:10:29.499 --> 01:10:33.959 He, he and, and one of the reasons, and you probably know this, but one of 01:10:33.959 --> 01:10:38.999 the reasons that gated horses can be so helpful is because their motion is 01:10:38.999 --> 01:10:41.089 more side to side than forward and back. 01:10:41.349 --> 01:10:46.079 So it actually counterbalance the state that lack of stability with 01:10:46.289 --> 01:10:50.109 if riders don't have the light forward and back stability sort of. 01:10:50.339 --> 01:10:51.399 like evens it out a little. 01:10:51.409 --> 01:10:54.799 So they came out and they put her in her wheelchair and she was like, she 01:10:54.799 --> 01:10:57.039 was quite pretty, pretty non verbal. 01:10:57.049 --> 01:10:59.889 Like she could make sounds and so on, but she didn't really speak. 01:11:00.509 --> 01:11:04.649 And they, so I brought this little horse, Bangsy, out and I, I said, you know, 01:11:04.649 --> 01:11:05.999 you can meet him in the wheelchair. 01:11:05.999 --> 01:11:10.289 And he put his nose down and he sniffed all around her. 01:11:10.289 --> 01:11:11.649 Never seen wheelchair before. 01:11:11.649 --> 01:11:13.709 He just sniffed all around him and she loved it. 01:11:13.759 --> 01:11:16.109 Of course, he sniffed her hair and he sniffed everything. 01:11:16.509 --> 01:11:22.709 And then I said, Well, I think you could put her on him and he studied separated 01:11:22.709 --> 01:11:24.939 just like he stood like just like he was. 01:11:25.799 --> 01:11:29.979 Racing himself so it'd be very stable for her to be put on and 01:11:29.989 --> 01:11:31.539 like her legs kind of out there. 01:11:31.539 --> 01:11:32.049 And there he was. 01:11:32.549 --> 01:11:34.399 So his father put her on. 01:11:34.399 --> 01:11:37.999 And of course, at the time, what he did, he was told to because her legs, 01:11:37.999 --> 01:11:39.369 her muscles were very contracted. 01:11:39.439 --> 01:11:42.139 He told her, you know, he would pull her legs down. 01:11:42.139 --> 01:11:46.129 And I said, can I show you something that might be easier for her? 01:11:46.129 --> 01:11:48.699 So I showed some python lift. 01:11:48.699 --> 01:11:52.419 So I literally put my hand on the leg and I supported the tissue up a bit. 01:11:52.809 --> 01:11:53.819 And I paused. 01:11:54.544 --> 01:11:58.574 And then I slowly carried it down and her legs just melted around the horse. 01:11:59.434 --> 01:12:03.784 And it was fascinating because whenever she'd come out and her, her father would 01:12:03.784 --> 01:12:08.084 go to pull her legs down, she'd point at me to do the other thing with her legs. 01:12:08.514 --> 01:12:12.534 So we started off by leading her with him and he was very good. 01:12:13.074 --> 01:12:16.794 We had sidewalkers like she was used to, but she'd fallen off with sidewalkers 01:12:16.804 --> 01:12:18.364 like she was pretty unbalanced. 01:12:18.774 --> 01:12:21.194 We graduated to her riding. 01:12:21.244 --> 01:12:21.934 We ponied her. 01:12:21.934 --> 01:12:25.464 We found that actually ponying her was the easiest thing because if 01:12:25.464 --> 01:12:28.484 she started to lose her balance, we could just kind of, you know, take 01:12:28.484 --> 01:12:29.814 her arm and pull her back on it. 01:12:30.324 --> 01:12:32.024 And we took her out on the trail. 01:12:32.064 --> 01:12:33.579 We took her out and we had it. 01:12:34.089 --> 01:12:38.069 The thing is, her parents said, listen, this is so much joy for her. 01:12:38.079 --> 01:12:42.689 She would, she would smile and laugh and she would make these kissing 01:12:42.689 --> 01:12:44.339 sounds when she wanted to go faster. 01:12:44.339 --> 01:12:47.909 And then he would tolt and she would like just grin and then he'd canter, like 01:12:47.909 --> 01:12:49.809 a canter, like a little rocking horse. 01:12:50.239 --> 01:12:55.059 And she was, she had freedom for the first time in her life. 01:12:55.059 --> 01:12:58.959 And I have to say that we moved from Alberta to B. 01:12:58.959 --> 01:12:59.249 C. 01:12:59.249 --> 01:13:00.659 and that was the thing that was the hardest. 01:13:01.384 --> 01:13:06.274 Was leaving her because she had to, she moved to another place, but it wasn't 01:13:06.284 --> 01:13:08.194 the same in terms of what she got. 01:13:08.194 --> 01:13:12.804 But the relationship, this, this horse, we would know when she was coming out 01:13:12.844 --> 01:13:17.224 because he would be standing at the gate 10 minutes before she arrived. 01:13:18.194 --> 01:13:19.674 And never any other time. 01:13:19.674 --> 01:13:23.314 So we, Oh, well, you know, Eileen must be on her way out and there she is. 01:13:23.314 --> 01:13:28.494 But the, the, the joy and the relationship that this horse, I, I feel that this 01:13:28.494 --> 01:13:34.304 horse felt it was his purpose in a way to, to to have this person because 01:13:34.484 --> 01:13:37.694 she just adored, he would, she would feed him carrots and he would slobber 01:13:37.694 --> 01:13:39.494 all over her and she adored it. 01:13:39.534 --> 01:13:44.684 You know, it was, it was the thing in her life that gave her, I think the most. 01:13:44.989 --> 01:13:45.759 The most freedom. 01:13:45.759 --> 01:13:50.499 So it was a very it's very an impactful experience for us. 01:13:52.789 --> 01:13:54.249 Rupert Isaacson: I had a horse once. 01:13:54.279 --> 01:13:55.379 It was an extraordinary horse. 01:13:55.409 --> 01:13:56.449 He died last year. 01:13:57.119 --> 01:13:59.339 Ripe old age, just found dead in the field. 01:13:59.339 --> 01:14:00.139 The best way to go. 01:14:01.689 --> 01:14:07.939 We had a kid come out to us that had drowned and was completely 01:14:07.939 --> 01:14:09.649 unresponsive, but alive. 01:14:10.329 --> 01:14:13.419 And people said, well, you know, he's sort of a vegetable, you know, he won't 01:14:13.429 --> 01:14:15.359 give you any any sort of feedback at all. 01:14:15.709 --> 01:14:16.899 Do you think you could do something? 01:14:18.529 --> 01:14:21.959 And, you know, you get these emails, you're like, gosh, I really don't 01:14:21.959 --> 01:14:27.329 know, I, you know, I'm not hubristic enough to say that we could, but I'm 01:14:27.329 --> 01:14:28.749 obviously not going to say don't come. 01:14:29.549 --> 01:14:30.379 So. 01:14:30.959 --> 01:14:37.059 They came and we were all a bit nervous this quarter horse clue who was a 01:14:37.229 --> 01:14:43.559 grumpy old bastard Like he proved to me that I cannot train a horse Anything 01:14:43.599 --> 01:14:45.459 that I tried with him was that nope. 01:14:45.459 --> 01:14:49.959 No, no, but yet he would do everything if it was his idea so he was the he 01:14:49.959 --> 01:14:54.859 was the consummate horse I could always rely on if I had to go say into do 01:14:54.859 --> 01:15:02.924 something in the city or stunts like go into a department store or A nightclub 01:15:02.934 --> 01:15:06.714 while the band is playing to talk to people about autism and stuff like that. 01:15:06.714 --> 01:15:09.394 He'd just be rock solid because he found it interesting, basically, 01:15:09.544 --> 01:15:10.874 you know, he'd be like, okay, fine. 01:15:10.874 --> 01:15:12.214 That's kind of amusing. 01:15:12.214 --> 01:15:12.744 I'll do that. 01:15:12.954 --> 01:15:14.674 But if it didn't interest him, he'd be like, no, sorry. 01:15:15.344 --> 01:15:20.314 And so my attempts to, you know, dressage the horse were laughable. 01:15:20.944 --> 01:15:24.274 But he, this, this 01:15:26.944 --> 01:15:28.694 kid in the chair is brought out. 01:15:30.049 --> 01:15:39.849 And Clue looks over, he must have been about a hundred meters away in the field. 01:15:40.539 --> 01:15:45.499 He looked around and he just came straight over, did exactly what you talked about, 01:15:45.499 --> 01:15:48.339 sniffed everything, sniffed the child. 01:15:48.349 --> 01:15:50.529 And I wasn't thinking, oh, we're going to work with Clue or anything. 01:15:50.529 --> 01:15:51.679 I was just sort of standing there thinking, I don't 01:15:51.689 --> 01:15:52.699 know what we're going to do. 01:15:54.789 --> 01:15:57.119 And then he began to lick the child 01:15:59.129 --> 01:16:01.269 all over the body. 01:16:02.699 --> 01:16:04.619 Never seen anything like this before. 01:16:05.349 --> 01:16:06.519 Haven't seen it since either. 01:16:06.769 --> 01:16:08.269 I don't mean a couple of licks. 01:16:08.269 --> 01:16:10.894 I mean A bath, a tongue bath. 01:16:12.374 --> 01:16:12.994 What's going on? 01:16:13.024 --> 01:16:14.034 I don't know what's going on. 01:16:15.724 --> 01:16:23.814 So, long and the short of it, is we put the child on top, and the child began to 01:16:23.814 --> 01:16:30.094 respond, and the child began to point, and make noises and indicate what they wanted. 01:16:31.294 --> 01:16:36.604 And, what was passing between Clue and this child? 01:16:37.874 --> 01:16:39.184 One could only guess at. 01:16:39.394 --> 01:16:43.304 What was passing between your girl and that young horse? 01:16:43.314 --> 01:16:47.189 How did he know that she was Going to come ten minutes before. 01:16:47.629 --> 01:16:51.149 Okay, maybe he could, he could identify the sound of the car at 01:16:51.149 --> 01:16:54.599 a certain distance, or something like that, but chances are it 01:16:54.599 --> 01:16:56.089 sounded much the same as other cars. 01:16:56.789 --> 01:16:59.549 What, what did he know, and how? 01:17:00.099 --> 01:17:04.559 As you said earlier in the, in the, in this interview, you 01:17:04.559 --> 01:17:06.049 know, observation is everything. 01:17:07.579 --> 01:17:07.809 Yeah. 01:17:07.809 --> 01:17:08.159 Isn't it 01:17:08.159 --> 01:17:10.949 Rupert Isaacson: interesting how often it still leaves us scratching our heads? 01:17:14.569 --> 01:17:14.969 Robyn Hood: Yeah. 01:17:17.639 --> 01:17:18.059 Wow. 01:17:18.699 --> 01:17:19.069 Rupert Isaacson: Yeah. 01:17:20.469 --> 01:17:22.939 Now you, you don't, of course, just work with horses. 01:17:22.939 --> 01:17:23.699 You work with dogs. 01:17:23.739 --> 01:17:26.829 And one of the things which we're often. 01:17:27.764 --> 01:17:33.814 Desirous of people who work with the equine assisted field to do is 01:17:33.844 --> 01:17:38.834 don't just work with horses because Social animals we're social animals. 01:17:38.834 --> 01:17:42.774 We monkeys you never know what the person is going to get into you 01:17:42.774 --> 01:17:50.334 never know what other Feedback is going to come from other animals. 01:17:51.224 --> 01:17:54.624 Talk to us about the work that you do with dogs Because the dog 01:17:54.624 --> 01:17:57.634 is the sort of most obvious one that most people have access to. 01:17:57.854 --> 01:18:00.784 Most special needs people, most people needing some sort of therapy, they 01:18:00.794 --> 01:18:02.254 don't really have access to horses. 01:18:02.254 --> 01:18:04.404 They might come out to your barn, they might come out to my barn, 01:18:04.404 --> 01:18:05.794 but it's not their daily life. 01:18:05.794 --> 01:18:06.674 Dogs can be. 01:18:07.484 --> 01:18:11.764 Can you talk to us about the TTouch you do with dogs, and the work you do with dogs? 01:18:12.704 --> 01:18:15.174 How similar is it to the work you do with horses, and what are the 01:18:15.184 --> 01:18:18.534 contexts that you find it useful in? 01:18:21.164 --> 01:18:24.174 Robyn Hood: Well, when we first started, of course, you know, Linda 01:18:24.174 --> 01:18:27.539 started the work with horses, and then it was like, oh, Well, could 01:18:27.539 --> 01:18:29.369 it could you work with dogs as well? 01:18:29.369 --> 01:18:30.689 And could you work with other animals? 01:18:30.689 --> 01:18:32.389 And we didn't really know. 01:18:32.829 --> 01:18:39.509 My interest in working with people with dogs is to again, have dogs have 01:18:39.559 --> 01:18:41.669 as much choices as possible in life. 01:18:41.729 --> 01:18:44.229 It's not, you know, none of us have complete choice. 01:18:44.929 --> 01:18:45.429 For sure. 01:18:45.999 --> 01:18:50.869 I feel like it's so important to pay attention. 01:18:50.889 --> 01:18:53.049 I think dogs get misread so often. 01:18:53.049 --> 01:18:56.509 I think these dogs, you know, Oh, my dog's so happy to see everybody. 01:18:56.759 --> 01:18:59.809 It's like, but are they really like they're so what are they? 01:18:59.859 --> 01:19:00.849 What does that look like? 01:19:00.859 --> 01:19:03.179 Is what I always ask people is what is that like? 01:19:03.189 --> 01:19:03.999 Oh, I'm so happy. 01:19:03.999 --> 01:19:06.499 Look like, well, they're bouncing all around and they're, you 01:19:06.499 --> 01:19:08.989 know, tails wagging and they're jumping on people and so on. 01:19:08.989 --> 01:19:12.889 And it's like, well, Could it be that their behavior is sort of 01:19:12.889 --> 01:19:14.569 disproportionate to the situation? 01:19:14.609 --> 01:19:18.509 You know, if you, like I, my dog, when I come home or one of my dogs, both of 01:19:18.509 --> 01:19:21.149 my dogs, when I come home from being away, they're like super excited. 01:19:21.499 --> 01:19:22.609 That's kind of predictable. 01:19:22.609 --> 01:19:27.549 But if someone comes that doesn't know a dog at all, and they have this, you 01:19:27.549 --> 01:19:32.929 know, super highly aroused behavior, I feel like it's simply arousal and 01:19:32.949 --> 01:19:37.409 it isn't necessarily, it may be how they cope with this sort of situation. 01:19:37.409 --> 01:19:38.699 And so, I. 01:19:39.559 --> 01:19:44.889 Encourage people to be calmer around dogs and not like get into 01:19:44.889 --> 01:19:48.629 this, you're such a good dog and this ruffling things with dogs. 01:19:48.629 --> 01:19:49.439 They don't know. 01:19:49.439 --> 01:19:53.029 And this like, whack, whack, whack is supposed to be such the same with horses. 01:19:53.029 --> 01:19:56.059 You know, do you think the horses really think that when we smack 01:19:56.059 --> 01:19:59.179 them when we're happy and we smack them when we're mad that it's, you 01:19:59.179 --> 01:20:00.769 know, means, you know, it's okay. 01:20:01.339 --> 01:20:04.984 So I, I just want people to don't. 01:20:04.984 --> 01:20:09.388 One of the ways that we can be able to live in our homes is to help 01:20:09.388 --> 01:20:12.238 people build a relationship and understand that they can meet as 01:20:12.238 --> 01:20:15.215 many needs as the dogs that they can. 01:20:15.305 --> 01:20:18.685 And that's not always easy in the lifestyle. 01:20:18.685 --> 01:20:19.715 We live on a farm. 01:20:20.375 --> 01:20:21.205 You probably do too. 01:20:21.215 --> 01:20:22.875 We, our dogs have a lot of freedom. 01:20:22.905 --> 01:20:25.035 We have sheep and we have cows. 01:20:25.035 --> 01:20:26.545 And I was thinking about all the animals. 01:20:26.555 --> 01:20:28.455 We have sheep and cows that are super friendly. 01:20:28.455 --> 01:20:31.845 And so people get to interact with them because they're there 01:20:31.895 --> 01:20:33.075 because they've been there. 01:20:33.075 --> 01:20:33.090 Yeah. 01:20:33.830 --> 01:20:36.510 You know, they've been handled, but they also have freedom. 01:20:36.520 --> 01:20:39.120 So, you know, there's that, there's that kind of thing. 01:20:39.120 --> 01:20:46.350 So, I would say that the biggest thing is to help dogs and their people be in 01:20:46.660 --> 01:20:48.810 physical, emotional and mental balance. 01:20:48.810 --> 01:20:51.070 That would be our, our aim. 01:20:51.640 --> 01:20:54.870 And if we can help people start to. 01:20:56.425 --> 01:20:57.675 Pay attention to that. 01:20:57.695 --> 01:21:03.925 They start to observe their dogs in a different way and maybe understand again 01:21:03.935 --> 01:21:06.345 their, their behavior a little bit more. 01:21:06.345 --> 01:21:10.325 It's dogs really do a lot for us because they live in our homes and 01:21:10.325 --> 01:21:15.065 they, they are so, so emotionally attached to people reading their 01:21:15.065 --> 01:21:16.705 emotions of how they're feeling. 01:21:16.705 --> 01:21:18.955 And if I think that a lot of times that people looked at 01:21:18.965 --> 01:21:19.990 their dogs, they could be. 01:21:20.230 --> 01:21:24.170 They could know what they're what's going on for them as well and it's 01:21:24.170 --> 01:21:25.740 like my acupuncturist would say to me. 01:21:25.740 --> 01:21:27.470 So, you know, how are your moods? 01:21:27.470 --> 01:21:31.540 And I go, don't ask me ask my husband or ask my kids or ask whatever. 01:21:31.540 --> 01:21:35.170 I, I don't necessarily know what's going on, but I feel like 01:21:35.190 --> 01:21:36.640 we can really see a reflection. 01:21:36.650 --> 01:21:38.537 A lot of times with our dogs. 01:21:38.537 --> 01:21:40.010 I would say, 01:21:40.580 --> 01:21:43.260 Rupert Isaacson: when you're using T touch with dogs give me some 01:21:43.260 --> 01:21:48.670 examples about What you'd use for what situations and what you would show? 01:21:48.860 --> 01:21:52.800 Well, and what are the sort of go tos that you you typically find yourself? 01:21:53.560 --> 01:21:53.860 So with 01:21:53.870 --> 01:21:56.250 Robyn Hood: puppies with puppies isn't i'm going to start puppies 01:21:56.250 --> 01:22:00.390 and go to your old age The thing is first thing is with puppies is We, 01:22:00.460 --> 01:22:02.490 we use what we call containment. 01:22:02.500 --> 01:22:04.100 So contain versus restraint. 01:22:04.120 --> 01:22:07.560 Those are kind of words that we use even for bowls, whatever it is. 01:22:07.980 --> 01:22:12.380 So if we can teach people to make mindful contact on the body, like 01:22:12.380 --> 01:22:16.610 gently stroke the ears, for instance, gently the mouth and the paws, not just. 01:22:17.025 --> 01:22:21.545 desensitization, but actually help them be comfortable by doing 01:22:21.595 --> 01:22:25.775 little bits of, of touch and contact and so on with the puppy. 01:22:25.775 --> 01:22:27.735 So it could be any type of touch. 01:22:27.735 --> 01:22:32.355 Usually we teach a little bit of the ear slides maybe a bit of tail touches 01:22:32.605 --> 01:22:37.255 and just some gentle work on the body, because that can be so calming for 01:22:37.255 --> 01:22:39.245 puppies that are like over the top. 01:22:39.245 --> 01:22:43.645 And then as they're going into sort of more, you know, adolescent that 01:22:43.645 --> 01:22:48.605 are kind of over the top, then we start into Again, some some touches 01:22:48.605 --> 01:22:51.815 because they'll go through a period where maybe they're a little bit. 01:22:53.000 --> 01:22:56.200 They're kind of reactive to touch and that doesn't mean in a negative way, but 01:22:56.200 --> 01:22:58.020 they get sort of hyperactive, if you will. 01:22:58.030 --> 01:22:59.630 So maybe we have to change our touch. 01:22:59.680 --> 01:23:01.180 Maybe we have to change what we do. 01:23:01.630 --> 01:23:04.690 Maybe we want to take them into mindful movement. 01:23:04.690 --> 01:23:07.810 And this is not about, it's not about training the dog. 01:23:08.400 --> 01:23:12.640 It's so like with the horses, we use different elements like the labyrinth 01:23:12.640 --> 01:23:15.750 and maybe different surfaces and so on, so that we can have short 01:23:15.760 --> 01:23:21.630 periods of making a connection with them through doing mindful movement. 01:23:21.650 --> 01:23:22.330 Mindful. 01:23:22.900 --> 01:23:26.250 And slow movement builds muscle at a deeper level than fast movement. 01:23:26.460 --> 01:23:29.430 So if we can have these moments of helping them come into physical 01:23:29.440 --> 01:23:31.220 balance, that can be super helpful. 01:23:32.620 --> 01:23:34.800 Same with, you know, building a relationship. 01:23:34.810 --> 01:23:36.180 Relationship is. 01:23:36.855 --> 01:23:41.305 It's so important because it's that relationship that they want to cooperate. 01:23:41.315 --> 01:23:42.315 They want to be with you. 01:23:42.315 --> 01:23:46.025 They, they, you know, and that's what we're looking for is how can we 01:23:46.025 --> 01:23:51.205 build a relationship years ago when we had our, our, our first companion 01:23:51.205 --> 01:23:54.545 animal training and it was up here and it was in the winter and it was 01:23:54.545 --> 01:23:56.280 really colder than it should be. 01:23:56.450 --> 01:24:00.270 So we went down to a local school and there was a 01:24:00.270 --> 01:24:02.170 kindergarten class in progress. 01:24:02.170 --> 01:24:07.880 So we sent a couple of our practitioners into the kindergarten with a couple of 01:24:07.900 --> 01:24:11.400 stuffed dogs to talk to them about how they make contact with their dogs at home. 01:24:12.050 --> 01:24:18.165 And We got the feedback that from two of the kids, one of them said, you know, 01:24:18.285 --> 01:24:21.255 my, our dog never wanted to be with me. 01:24:21.435 --> 01:24:26.405 But after I started, you know, doing these touches, the dog wanted to be with me. 01:24:26.715 --> 01:24:30.375 And the same thing with the cat, the cat started to come and sleep on my 01:24:30.375 --> 01:24:35.035 bed and I always wanted the cat to make a connection, but it didn't like me. 01:24:35.405 --> 01:24:39.445 And it just, you know, it was just showing them a different way of, of making 01:24:39.445 --> 01:24:41.395 contact and being mindful with that. 01:24:41.415 --> 01:24:42.005 So that was. 01:24:42.615 --> 01:24:47.645 You know, that's so powerful when you can when you can give children a way to help 01:24:47.645 --> 01:24:49.825 them build a relationship in that way. 01:24:50.815 --> 01:24:54.605 And then, of course, with with older dogs, we have a husky 01:24:54.605 --> 01:24:56.415 cross that will be 15 in April. 01:24:56.885 --> 01:24:58.675 And he so we do. 01:24:59.330 --> 01:25:01.140 T touches on him regularly. 01:25:01.150 --> 01:25:04.090 He's losing a little bit of, you know, the connection of his back end. 01:25:04.090 --> 01:25:08.140 So we put a little Porter wrap where it just goes across the chest, across 01:25:08.140 --> 01:25:09.730 over the back, and then attaches. 01:25:09.740 --> 01:25:13.580 So it's just one wrap around the chest and one going around the middle. 01:25:14.180 --> 01:25:18.800 It stabilizes him to the point that he, he's not losing his own legs. 01:25:18.890 --> 01:25:21.740 He can get out and be really, really jaunty. 01:25:22.070 --> 01:25:27.715 So, It's you can really use it throughout their whole life and I feel 01:25:27.715 --> 01:25:32.795 that when we build relationship with them, they, they want to listen to us. 01:25:32.825 --> 01:25:34.415 They, you know, they want to cooperate. 01:25:34.425 --> 01:25:35.365 They want to be with it. 01:25:35.375 --> 01:25:38.905 So, of course, you can use it with any modality that you're using. 01:25:38.905 --> 01:25:42.985 But I feel like it's the, I feel like relationship is what most 01:25:42.985 --> 01:25:44.255 people want with their animals. 01:25:45.450 --> 01:25:48.330 Rupert Isaacson: Yeah, I think it's what most animals want, if they're mammals in 01:25:48.330 --> 01:25:53.850 particular, you know, with us and with each other and it's, it's so interesting 01:25:53.850 --> 01:25:59.390 how, although, for example, I'm sure this was the case for you when I was growing 01:25:59.390 --> 01:26:02.480 up, it was very much the case of dominate. 01:26:03.090 --> 01:26:08.380 We weren't actually ever told to dominate in those words, but it was, you make 01:26:08.380 --> 01:26:13.080 him do what you, he's got to do what you want to do, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. 01:26:13.080 --> 01:26:13.440 That was. 01:26:13.830 --> 01:26:18.030 The accepted and and myths like they say the horse didn't want to go past 01:26:18.040 --> 01:26:21.380 something or something You know, if you get off, you know, you he's one 01:26:21.540 --> 01:26:24.550 you've told him he's one then I realized after a while that it wasn't true 01:26:28.880 --> 01:26:32.350 But nonetheless, you know as a kid this is the feedback one was getting 01:26:32.470 --> 01:26:40.115 and you could see the utilitarian imperatives that had made that way of 01:26:40.115 --> 01:26:42.145 thinking become ingrained in the culture. 01:26:42.145 --> 01:26:47.095 However, what it always still came down to when, when you heard people talking 01:26:47.095 --> 01:26:53.365 about good horsemen, or when the people really started talking about their horses. 01:26:53.695 --> 01:26:56.305 It always came back to relationship, even that, but then 01:26:56.405 --> 01:26:57.715 we sort of embarrassed about it. 01:26:57.715 --> 01:26:59.715 And they'd be like, well, you know, we don't really want to admit that we're 01:26:59.925 --> 01:27:01.935 sentimental or, you know, that we might. 01:27:02.745 --> 01:27:04.355 You were allowed to say you loved your horse. 01:27:04.355 --> 01:27:05.575 You were allowed to say you loved your dog. 01:27:05.595 --> 01:27:07.175 You weren't really allowed to say you loved your kid 01:27:07.175 --> 01:27:07.925 or 01:27:07.925 --> 01:27:10.445 Rupert Isaacson: your wife or your, you know, or your mom. 01:27:10.935 --> 01:27:11.145 But. 01:27:12.815 --> 01:27:18.935 It's, you know, we come out of this militaristic society and pony club, you 01:27:18.935 --> 01:27:20.095 know, we were all brought up that way. 01:27:20.295 --> 01:27:25.415 This came out of the military, you know, and you could see how that 01:27:25.435 --> 01:27:29.545 way of screaming at people and effectively making them fall off 01:27:29.825 --> 01:27:31.415 actually might be quite useful. 01:27:31.415 --> 01:27:34.695 If you were trying to train raw recruits for the cavalry, you know, 01:27:34.695 --> 01:27:38.425 and they had to withstand screams, you know, stress falling off, 01:27:38.605 --> 01:27:39.935 getting shot out of the saddle. 01:27:40.945 --> 01:27:43.795 You know, that's why the sergeant screams in your face, so that, 01:27:43.805 --> 01:27:47.135 you know, when you're under fire, you, you know, aren't so stressed. 01:27:47.865 --> 01:27:54.320 Okay, in that battle situation, maybe That's useful. 01:27:54.340 --> 01:27:56.400 But then what happens when you come out of the battle? 01:27:56.520 --> 01:27:57.780 What happens if you're never in the battle? 01:27:57.910 --> 01:27:59.770 What happens if you never wanted to be in a battle? 01:28:01.100 --> 01:28:04.440 So I think so many of us and so many of our animals have had to 01:28:04.440 --> 01:28:06.480 undergo this sort of approach 01:28:08.580 --> 01:28:13.790 Which got looked at as a kind of a virtue because it created toughness, 01:28:13.800 --> 01:28:15.230 resilience, that sort of thing 01:28:17.290 --> 01:28:23.010 But did it really create resilience or did it just create desensitization 01:28:23.030 --> 01:28:28.880 with Problematic traumatized behaviors that came out later, you know, and 01:28:28.880 --> 01:28:32.260 the answer probably was often Sure. 01:28:32.760 --> 01:28:38.770 So, when you guys were first putting T Touch together, as you said earlier 01:28:38.770 --> 01:28:42.310 in this conversation, that Linda was about 20 years ahead of her time, 01:28:42.320 --> 01:28:45.480 and I think you're right, you know, I think that, I remember when I first 01:28:45.480 --> 01:28:48.460 started hearing about her, the type of conversation that we're having 01:28:48.460 --> 01:28:50.700 now was not, by any means, the norm. 01:28:51.580 --> 01:28:57.840 And, she must have, and you must have, encountered a lot of resistance. 01:28:57.980 --> 01:29:03.620 How did you Deal with that. 01:29:03.670 --> 01:29:05.430 I mean beyond the kind of okay. 01:29:05.430 --> 01:29:08.430 Well, it's all right if people disagree with us But you know, you know, and 01:29:08.430 --> 01:29:11.580 I know that you know people in the horse world can be pretty awful you 01:29:11.580 --> 01:29:14.935 must have come in for your fair share of that especially in the early years. 01:29:15.105 --> 01:29:18.875 What were your strategies for, for coping with that and staying sort 01:29:18.875 --> 01:29:23.875 of true to your methods and seeing it sort of borne out over time? 01:29:23.975 --> 01:29:28.365 Cause you also must have been asked to question yourselves a lot as well. 01:29:28.615 --> 01:29:32.375 I'm sort of intrigued by how you weathered all of that. 01:29:32.465 --> 01:29:33.085 And, you know, 01:29:34.555 --> 01:29:35.525 Robyn Hood: Yeah, that's a good question. 01:29:38.365 --> 01:29:43.420 I, I think that early on there were, because You know, we have articles 01:29:43.420 --> 01:29:48.840 dating back to, you know, in the, I think in 1981, Practical Horseman 01:29:48.850 --> 01:29:53.260 did a an article called Soften, How to Soften Your Horses Defenses, and 01:29:53.260 --> 01:29:55.120 it was primarily about doing that. 01:29:55.120 --> 01:29:58.860 It was, it turned into a little booklet, and it, it sold really well, 01:29:59.290 --> 01:30:02.730 and from that, we ended up, then we'd start, we'd do these little 01:30:02.730 --> 01:30:04.210 workshops, and we'd have people come. 01:30:04.490 --> 01:30:08.950 So the people who came, you We're people who are looking for something. 01:30:09.360 --> 01:30:09.720 Okay. 01:30:09.800 --> 01:30:13.830 Robyn Hood: And so I, so I think that it, it kind of, feel the need. 01:30:13.850 --> 01:30:15.150 So, for the most part. 01:30:15.815 --> 01:30:17.995 We didn't have people coming. 01:30:18.005 --> 01:30:19.725 They didn't pay money to come and go. 01:30:19.735 --> 01:30:21.925 Well, this is a load of, you know, whatever. 01:30:22.495 --> 01:30:26.115 And and I remember, remember, and when did we go to Australia? 01:30:26.175 --> 01:30:28.695 We went to, we went and we did this transformation on the 01:30:28.695 --> 01:30:31.355 trail in sometime in the 80s. 01:30:31.355 --> 01:30:32.585 And I did a little demo. 01:30:32.595 --> 01:30:36.035 We all, I went and I did a little two day demo and there was a couple 01:30:36.035 --> 01:30:40.195 there who were He was shortlisted for the, for the Australian three 01:30:40.195 --> 01:30:43.235 day team and they were lifelong horse people and so on and so forth. 01:30:43.915 --> 01:30:44.955 And they saw it. 01:30:46.155 --> 01:30:49.355 And then they, I was coming back to Australia, they organized for me to 01:30:49.355 --> 01:30:55.085 come and do a seven day training because what they said was what they saw and 01:30:55.085 --> 01:31:00.465 the change that they saw in the horse, they, they were smart enough to realize 01:31:00.465 --> 01:31:02.055 that there must be something to it. 01:31:02.145 --> 01:31:03.605 You know that I think that's the thing. 01:31:03.605 --> 01:31:07.505 And so to be honest, some of the things that happen with 01:31:07.515 --> 01:31:09.165 what we do sound ridiculous. 01:31:09.580 --> 01:31:15.830 You know, it's just sounds like even, you know, I, I, I'm sometimes just shocked 01:31:15.840 --> 01:31:17.170 at some of the things that happen. 01:31:17.180 --> 01:31:23.010 And I like that because I, nothing makes me more sort of suspicious 01:31:23.010 --> 01:31:25.730 of something when someone says, Oh, piece of cake, easy. 01:31:25.890 --> 01:31:30.370 I can fix that that, you know, like these are beings we're working with, 01:31:30.370 --> 01:31:31.800 with all these different circumstances. 01:31:31.800 --> 01:31:37.590 So, I did have you know, I would have sometimes people come when they, and it 01:31:37.590 --> 01:31:39.440 was hard if they brought their own horse. 01:31:40.400 --> 01:31:42.600 And they tell the story and so on. 01:31:42.630 --> 01:31:45.590 And then we could do things with their horse that they couldn't in 01:31:45.590 --> 01:31:47.580 a very, very short period of time. 01:31:47.640 --> 01:31:50.760 And we have to be really careful with that because. 01:31:51.375 --> 01:31:54.625 It's hard for someone if you, you know, like, Oh, my horse won't let 01:31:54.655 --> 01:31:57.325 anybody else do ABC, whatever it is. 01:31:57.325 --> 01:32:00.805 And so we didn't like, go right into it, but we would kind of work 01:32:00.805 --> 01:32:05.235 our way into that and soon we would be doing ABC that they had trouble 01:32:05.235 --> 01:32:06.475 doing and no one else could do. 01:32:07.335 --> 01:32:10.695 So you have to be really careful how you talk to those people because 01:32:10.695 --> 01:32:14.415 they feel like what was wrong with me that I couldn't do it. 01:32:14.650 --> 01:32:16.817 You know, 01:32:16.817 --> 01:32:17.900 yeah, 01:32:17.900 --> 01:32:18.570 Robyn Hood: exactly. 01:32:18.570 --> 01:32:21.330 And we never wanted to have anyone feel like that. 01:32:21.620 --> 01:32:24.570 It is not our interest in proving anything. 01:32:24.860 --> 01:32:25.280 Nothing. 01:32:25.360 --> 01:32:26.140 It's not our interest. 01:32:26.780 --> 01:32:31.680 And so, I mean, I remember sometimes I would have, I remember one big 01:32:31.720 --> 01:32:33.700 guy that came on a, on a weekend. 01:32:33.700 --> 01:32:34.270 I was teaching. 01:32:34.995 --> 01:32:38.155 And he stood there with his arms crossed and, you know, kind of 01:32:38.155 --> 01:32:41.265 standing back, and then he, and then he started asking me these questions, 01:32:41.265 --> 01:32:45.575 and he started asking me the, like, if I, looking at him, I was, you know, 01:32:45.575 --> 01:32:48.815 thinking, oh, he's, you know, I'm not sure where the question's coming from. 01:32:50.565 --> 01:32:55.155 But I, I took from him that his question was an honest question. 01:32:55.475 --> 01:32:58.515 I just said, you know, like, and he said to me after, it was an honest question. 01:32:58.515 --> 01:32:59.495 I really wanted. 01:32:59.910 --> 01:33:01.330 I really wanted to hear your answer. 01:33:01.690 --> 01:33:05.130 And so he got super interested and he trained a lot of horses. 01:33:05.130 --> 01:33:08.340 He was with the RCMP and RCMP ride and so on and so forth. 01:33:08.740 --> 01:33:12.520 And he started to come, he came to some clinics and he started to incorporate 01:33:12.520 --> 01:33:14.590 some of the things that he did. 01:33:14.770 --> 01:33:18.310 So the questions are, I love the questions. 01:33:18.390 --> 01:33:21.940 I think it's really good because if there were no questions, there'd 01:33:21.940 --> 01:33:27.380 be no answers and it's really the questions like they can be intimidating 01:33:27.380 --> 01:33:28.940 depending on how you take it. 01:33:28.940 --> 01:33:31.800 So I would say in the beginning, it was a bit of a challenge. 01:33:31.810 --> 01:33:36.150 Although most of the animals that came to us, they came to us because they hadn't 01:33:36.310 --> 01:33:38.050 been able to do anything else with them. 01:33:38.050 --> 01:33:40.530 So it was like, it's the same with the dogs. 01:33:40.530 --> 01:33:46.350 It was sort of like the last chance, you know, and, and so it, it was, yeah. 01:33:46.855 --> 01:33:50.645 You know, I guess it was tricky but, and, and there would be, you know, of 01:33:50.645 --> 01:33:53.875 course there's skeptics about, about everything but it was just kind of 01:33:53.875 --> 01:33:57.765 holding, holding that place that if they were interested great if they 01:33:57.765 --> 01:33:59.125 weren't, I'm not going to argue. 01:33:59.875 --> 01:34:01.105 Rupert Isaacson: Yeah, yeah, yeah. 01:34:01.645 --> 01:34:07.205 If you're a horse nerd, and if you're on this podcast, I'm guessing you are, then 01:34:07.215 --> 01:34:12.205 you've probably also always wondered a little bit about the old master system. 01:34:12.670 --> 01:34:13.980 of dressage training. 01:34:14.020 --> 01:34:22.590 If you go and check out our Helios Harmony program, we outline there step by step 01:34:22.660 --> 01:34:28.940 exactly how to train your horse from the ground to become the dressage horse 01:34:28.950 --> 01:34:35.470 of your dreams in a way that absolutely serves the physical, mental and emotional 01:34:35.520 --> 01:34:38.290 well being of the horse and the rider. 01:34:38.350 --> 01:34:39.090 Intrigued? 01:34:39.290 --> 01:34:40.150 Like to know more? 01:34:41.020 --> 01:34:43.850 Go to our website, Helios Harmony. 01:34:45.550 --> 01:34:47.240 Check out the free introduction course. 01:34:47.800 --> 01:34:48.320 Take it from there. 01:34:48.824 --> 01:34:49.754 I remember. 01:34:51.094 --> 01:34:57.164 When the great German dressage rider showing my age here Klaus Balkenholm. 01:34:57.334 --> 01:34:57.644 Yeah 01:34:58.554 --> 01:35:03.834 Rupert Isaacson: Started bringing Linda over to Germany and he was, you know, the 01:35:03.834 --> 01:35:06.434 top winning dressage Olympic Ex policeman. 01:35:07.054 --> 01:35:09.294 Not a particularly sentimental dude, I should imagine. 01:35:10.494 --> 01:35:15.634 And yet, saw clearly the value of this work. 01:35:15.754 --> 01:35:19.674 Tell us a little bit about that and how that evolved. 01:35:20.169 --> 01:35:24.109 Because I think there will be people who are listening here who are also 01:35:24.389 --> 01:35:27.729 sport and performance riders and so on and very much in that German tradition. 01:35:28.039 --> 01:35:33.019 Why did he decide T Touch was a good thing? 01:35:33.359 --> 01:35:39.349 And how did you observe and how did he observe that it, his performance horses? 01:35:41.809 --> 01:35:44.769 Robyn Hood: Well, I wasn't there with Linda at any time with him, but 01:35:44.769 --> 01:35:50.579 what I, what I, you know, understand and see, I think if people are 01:35:53.619 --> 01:35:56.789 If they've done a lot with the horse, because my understanding is one of his 01:35:56.789 --> 01:36:01.469 horses, he'd spent a lot of time with him, just time, and he would, as sentimental 01:36:01.469 --> 01:36:05.309 or not, he would go in the stall, he would just spend time with the horse, and the 01:36:05.309 --> 01:36:10.019 horse wasn't responding, and then Linda worked with him, and the horse made a 01:36:10.179 --> 01:36:14.679 huge, like a huge response, and I don't know what year that was, but I know 01:36:14.679 --> 01:36:18.559 that in the In 1989, when you know, Dr. 01:36:18.559 --> 01:36:21.799 Klimka did his last big event at the L. 01:36:21.799 --> 01:36:21.879 A. 01:36:21.879 --> 01:36:22.969 Equestrian Center. 01:36:23.599 --> 01:36:25.229 Rupert Isaacson: That's Reiner Klimka for those, those people 01:36:25.599 --> 01:36:29.049 who were born in the last couple decades and don't know who that was. 01:36:29.349 --> 01:36:30.439 He was probably the best. 01:36:30.849 --> 01:36:33.009 Robyn Hood: And of course his daughter is Ingrid Klimka. 01:36:33.279 --> 01:36:33.389 Yeah. 01:36:34.374 --> 01:36:35.504 Rupert Isaacson: Yeah, his daughter's Ingrid. 01:36:35.504 --> 01:36:35.704 Yeah. 01:36:36.234 --> 01:36:36.484 Robyn Hood: Yeah. 01:36:36.614 --> 01:36:37.774 And and he did. 01:36:37.824 --> 01:36:43.594 So, so the scenario was he would take there would be 12 riders to from through 01:36:43.624 --> 01:36:48.234 training level through Grand Prix to each to each and 2500 spectators. 01:36:48.779 --> 01:36:51.709 Which is pretty intimidating to ride, you know, in front of that 01:36:51.769 --> 01:36:52.529 Rupert Isaacson: Germans too. 01:36:52.589 --> 01:36:52.799 Yeah. 01:36:53.319 --> 01:36:53.609 Robyn Hood: Yeah. 01:36:53.949 --> 01:36:55.219 Well, this was in LA. 01:36:55.389 --> 01:36:55.709 Okay. 01:36:57.559 --> 01:37:00.409 So he was the last one that he did. 01:37:00.759 --> 01:37:04.369 And Linda was invited because Linda had met him Linda met 01:37:04.369 --> 01:37:06.529 him before close Vulcan Hall. 01:37:06.959 --> 01:37:11.379 And and I think, I think he was an amazing man I mean in terms of. 01:37:12.439 --> 01:37:15.739 Just in terms of how he interacted with the horses and so on. 01:37:15.769 --> 01:37:18.079 So anyway, she we did this. 01:37:18.089 --> 01:37:21.309 So the night before it started, there was a little, there was a demo with 01:37:21.309 --> 01:37:22.579 some of the horses that were in it. 01:37:22.589 --> 01:37:23.709 So Linda did this demo. 01:37:23.709 --> 01:37:24.149 We helped. 01:37:24.159 --> 01:37:27.539 There were, I don't know, 20 practitioners there and we worked on 01:37:27.539 --> 01:37:29.369 the horses in between the lessons. 01:37:30.604 --> 01:37:33.004 And so it was fascinating. 01:37:33.004 --> 01:37:37.454 There was a horse that had lost his Piaf, Grand Prix horse, but California 01:37:37.464 --> 01:37:38.854 horse of the year, then lost the Piaf. 01:37:39.224 --> 01:37:43.934 So, when Linda worked with him in the demo, one of the things we noticed is 01:37:43.944 --> 01:37:46.134 he was very sensitive on his belly. 01:37:46.134 --> 01:37:49.614 And so she would take the wand, you know, the stiff kind of dressage whip 01:37:49.614 --> 01:37:51.644 and, and just stroke them all over. 01:37:51.644 --> 01:37:52.464 And as. 01:37:52.944 --> 01:37:57.364 She got to, he was known for putting boots on him or anything he would like, 01:37:57.624 --> 01:37:59.354 he would kick out with his hind legs. 01:37:59.364 --> 01:38:00.384 So people had to be careful. 01:38:00.394 --> 01:38:01.804 Now, here's the reality. 01:38:01.804 --> 01:38:03.684 If that horse wanted to hurt someone, he would. 01:38:04.134 --> 01:38:04.164 He's 01:38:04.504 --> 01:38:06.454 Robyn Hood: just saying, be careful, careful, be careful. 01:38:06.454 --> 01:38:07.394 And they, they were careful. 01:38:07.904 --> 01:38:12.274 So anyway, I was asked to work with him to do some body work with them in between. 01:38:13.749 --> 01:38:19.729 I, this horse had, his sheath was so dirty, like, and he had 01:38:19.739 --> 01:38:23.679 to be, have a general anesthetic to have his sheath cleaned. 01:38:24.619 --> 01:38:25.729 General anesthetic. 01:38:26.299 --> 01:38:30.439 So I started with him in the stall, and he's the horse that probably taught me 01:38:30.439 --> 01:38:32.389 the most about listening to whispers. 01:38:32.939 --> 01:38:36.739 And I started with my hand running, started just behind his ears, and just 01:38:36.739 --> 01:38:42.019 really quietly running my hand across his body, and whenever he would, and I 01:38:42.019 --> 01:38:47.149 mean just, Move in here a bit, I would pause and then I would go back to where 01:38:47.149 --> 01:38:51.159 he did this ear or his mouth would move and I, and I worked my way back. 01:38:51.189 --> 01:38:54.049 And when I got to the belly, I use the back of my hand. 01:38:54.049 --> 01:38:58.479 First, I use the one, the same kind of thing, and I would just pause and then 01:38:58.479 --> 01:39:02.849 I took the back of my hand and I worked along the belly and same, same deal. 01:39:03.299 --> 01:39:04.829 I got to the sheath area. 01:39:05.684 --> 01:39:07.844 I've never seen anything like it in my life. 01:39:07.904 --> 01:39:14.034 He probably had two inches of hard shmegma inside the sheath. 01:39:14.384 --> 01:39:20.604 Now tell me how you could do Piaf when you had It was that, that uncomfortable. 01:39:20.984 --> 01:39:22.344 Rupert Isaacson: Where do you think that had come from? 01:39:22.624 --> 01:39:24.944 And why was that in him and not in other horses? 01:39:25.224 --> 01:39:27.594 Well, that's a very good question. 01:39:28.074 --> 01:39:28.554 Robyn Hood: Very good question. 01:39:28.594 --> 01:39:32.084 I don't know, but I think there's something systemically going on that 01:39:32.084 --> 01:39:36.604 would create that amount of I don't know what it was, but it was hard. 01:39:37.734 --> 01:39:41.349 What was interesting is, when I had listened to him And 01:39:41.349 --> 01:39:42.559 this didn't take me very long. 01:39:43.209 --> 01:39:45.959 In the first session, I worked with him for, I don't know, less than an hour. 01:39:45.959 --> 01:39:49.259 But people would walk by and they'd go, Oh, have you tranquilized him? 01:39:49.289 --> 01:39:52.179 Because he was standing there with his head down, no halter on, just 01:39:52.179 --> 01:39:53.809 like, like he was tranquilized. 01:39:54.409 --> 01:39:57.019 I said, no, but I could work on the outside of the sheet. 01:39:57.109 --> 01:40:00.659 He actually wanted me, he wanted contact, because it must 01:40:00.659 --> 01:40:02.019 have been so uncomfortable. 01:40:02.029 --> 01:40:04.639 So I used the backs of my fingers and just did a bit. 01:40:04.899 --> 01:40:09.319 And then I was able to get some, this Excalibur, some softening. 01:40:09.329 --> 01:40:13.939 It's a, you know, A product that softens the inside and around the sheath area. 01:40:14.709 --> 01:40:18.729 I was able to get it softened and then I was able to get warm water. 01:40:19.099 --> 01:40:21.859 I couldn't take anything off because it's like having thick 01:40:21.859 --> 01:40:23.619 scabs, but I could soften it. 01:40:23.619 --> 01:40:24.989 And by the 3rd day he had pee off. 01:40:26.479 --> 01:40:26.729 Interesting, 01:40:27.189 --> 01:40:30.079 Robyn Hood: which was, I think was so interesting, but it was fascinating 01:40:30.119 --> 01:40:34.359 at this at this event because we, of course, we're showing people 01:40:34.359 --> 01:40:35.349 how to use the balance, right? 01:40:35.359 --> 01:40:39.579 You know, it's like a second rain around the base of the neck used as a second 01:40:39.579 --> 01:40:43.809 rain to just steady the horse and made a huge difference to some of the horses. 01:40:43.809 --> 01:40:46.929 And we also put some body wraps and promise wraps, which just went 01:40:46.929 --> 01:40:48.109 around the back end of the horse. 01:40:48.224 --> 01:40:51.824 And of course, at lunchtime at the L. 01:40:51.824 --> 01:40:51.874 A. 01:40:51.874 --> 01:40:56.404 Equestrian Center, the people that boarded there, there were like, you know, 01:40:56.404 --> 01:41:01.034 20 or 30 horses out there, you know, trying it with their own horses, which 01:41:01.034 --> 01:41:05.344 was great, you know, just to be able to kind of offer that and, you know, Dr. 01:41:05.344 --> 01:41:07.114 Clinton was such a gracious man. 01:41:07.384 --> 01:41:11.474 And, you know, he said he'd never seen so many changes in horses and 01:41:11.474 --> 01:41:13.354 riders in such a short period of time. 01:41:13.354 --> 01:41:16.904 And he really attributed it to Linda coming in and the work that we did, 01:41:16.904 --> 01:41:18.324 which he didn't need to do that. 01:41:18.644 --> 01:41:22.004 He's just an amazingly gracious gracious man. 01:41:22.004 --> 01:41:26.494 So that was a It was interesting because most of the people that were 01:41:26.494 --> 01:41:31.334 there were, were either competitors or really interested in the sport. 01:41:31.364 --> 01:41:33.494 Certainly some kind of kind of sport riders. 01:41:33.514 --> 01:41:36.824 Now, Linda's also worked with people like Anne Krasinski, who 01:41:36.824 --> 01:41:39.104 was on the American jumping team. 01:41:39.104 --> 01:41:44.014 And she did a demo with her at Wellington in Florida and had all these people 01:41:44.134 --> 01:41:48.999 standing around watching this horse who was known for rushing fences Linda 01:41:48.999 --> 01:41:52.169 worked with her, got her riding with a neck ring, nothing else on, and 01:41:52.189 --> 01:41:56.469 jumping four foot oxers, coming in really balanced, jumping them, not 01:41:56.469 --> 01:42:01.309 rushing after them, slowing down, and it was, it was quite a shock for them. 01:42:01.309 --> 01:42:08.019 So, if people see that there can be a difference, then they become interested. 01:42:08.039 --> 01:42:12.299 Now, can they always kind of carry, carry on with it? 01:42:12.299 --> 01:42:20.079 Because some things Require that we as a human have to make some changes. 01:42:20.079 --> 01:42:23.999 And, you know, there's only one thing on this earth that we 01:42:23.999 --> 01:42:25.519 have the potential to control. 01:42:26.884 --> 01:42:27.874 And that's ourselves. 01:42:29.664 --> 01:42:33.744 And when we change something, something will change. 01:42:34.244 --> 01:42:37.194 So I always say to people, if something isn't working, I don't care what it 01:42:37.194 --> 01:42:42.344 is, just change something a little bit, or pause, or just take a moment. 01:42:42.624 --> 01:42:48.884 But just that, that in itself can, can make a huge difference, makes a 01:42:48.884 --> 01:42:52.904 difference between how a horse reacts, how a dog reacts, how a person reacts. 01:42:54.999 --> 01:42:55.909 Rupert Isaacson: is writing this down. 01:42:55.949 --> 01:42:59.439 If something isn't working, change something. 01:43:00.569 --> 01:43:01.909 Robyn Hood: And it's so obvious. 01:43:01.949 --> 01:43:06.179 It's just that we get so stuck in our, you know, we get so stuck in our 01:43:06.179 --> 01:43:08.079 habits because they're so easy to do. 01:43:08.139 --> 01:43:09.039 Rupert Isaacson: The devil we know. 01:43:09.409 --> 01:43:15.514 And neural pathways that You know, and it doesn't matter that was it Einstein 01:43:15.514 --> 01:43:20.084 who said, you know, Insanity is doing the same thing and expecting over and 01:43:20.084 --> 01:43:21.574 Robyn Hood: over and expecting a different result. 01:43:21.814 --> 01:43:23.914 Rupert Isaacson: But it's also natural human behavior. 01:43:23.914 --> 01:43:26.974 And I think one has got to have a bit of compassion for 01:43:26.974 --> 01:43:29.484 oneself and for people this way. 01:43:30.034 --> 01:43:36.484 I know when we're Teaching people our methods and so on so much of it is 01:43:36.484 --> 01:43:42.314 counterintuitive And I think writers don't get enough credit for this The 01:43:42.314 --> 01:43:47.304 entire process of doing anything with a horse is counterintuitive both for 01:43:47.304 --> 01:43:53.184 the monkey and for the pony You know, we are their predator in the wild So 01:43:53.194 --> 01:43:57.024 their instinct is not to let us any certainly not within bow shot or spear 01:43:57.554 --> 01:44:05.759 chucking yet they will and They're not designed to take us on their backs. 01:44:06.789 --> 01:44:07.389 They will. 01:44:07.859 --> 01:44:10.079 We're not designed to balance up there. 01:44:10.079 --> 01:44:15.659 We're top heavy, big shoulders, you know, heavy head, wobbling 01:44:15.659 --> 01:44:17.139 around on that moving barrel. 01:44:17.419 --> 01:44:19.009 Yet, we do. 01:44:19.949 --> 01:44:26.809 And if you, you know, when we feel anxious or even unfamiliar 01:44:26.809 --> 01:44:29.269 with something, we crouch. 01:44:29.269 --> 01:44:34.714 We go into a A sort of a sympathetic nervous system crouch where we can 01:44:34.714 --> 01:44:37.484 protect our organs, throw a punch and run away all in the same movement. 01:44:37.894 --> 01:44:40.234 We can't do that on a horse, so we'll fall out the front door. 01:44:40.794 --> 01:44:44.924 And then of course, we're monkeys, so we want opposable thumbs, so we want to solve 01:44:44.934 --> 01:44:49.394 things with our hands and cling on tight to things, and we can't do that either. 01:44:50.014 --> 01:44:54.724 So the very fact that any of it can work at all, I'm always intrigued given 01:44:54.724 --> 01:44:58.919 that it Both the horse and the human have to go against instinct so much. 01:44:59.039 --> 01:45:02.199 And we're also angry, you know, we're angry chimpanzees and 01:45:02.429 --> 01:45:03.929 we've got to control that too. 01:45:04.399 --> 01:45:07.609 It's, it's, it's, it's a miracle it can happen and yet it does. 01:45:07.709 --> 01:45:13.734 So I think that people like you and Linda coming along and Helping to 01:45:13.734 --> 01:45:21.964 make that process more joyful, to me, is really the epitome of what 01:45:22.204 --> 01:45:26.874 equine assisted means, because in this day and age, we don't need horses. 01:45:27.764 --> 01:45:28.954 Some cowboys do. 01:45:29.524 --> 01:45:33.424 I would argue that with the therapeutic work that we do, actually that is 01:45:33.424 --> 01:45:39.134 optimised by the movement of the horse, so okay, maybe that's a necessary job 01:45:39.154 --> 01:45:41.464 for a horse, but we certainly don't need them for transport anymore. 01:45:41.914 --> 01:45:43.354 Luckily we don't need them for war. 01:45:43.894 --> 01:45:45.344 So the reason why do we have horses? 01:45:45.344 --> 01:45:45.814 We have horses. 01:45:45.824 --> 01:45:46.674 They make us feel good. 01:45:47.824 --> 01:45:50.264 Why do we feel good around horses? 01:45:51.894 --> 01:45:55.084 And then sometimes we do things or have experience with horses 01:45:55.084 --> 01:45:57.334 that get in the way of that joy. 01:45:58.979 --> 01:46:00.099 And then we can end up 01:46:02.429 --> 01:46:04.399 thrashing away at that neural pathway. 01:46:05.019 --> 01:46:08.989 The very thing that we were hoping would make us so joyful, that we were so 01:46:08.989 --> 01:46:14.529 attracted to as a child, the beauty, the freedom, the power, the romance, the dream 01:46:14.529 --> 01:46:18.139 like quality of horses, and then suddenly there we are in a cage, being screamed 01:46:18.139 --> 01:46:21.549 at, you know, by another monkey, you know, being told, wrong, wrong, you know. 01:46:24.054 --> 01:46:27.094 So you guys make it better. 01:46:27.094 --> 01:46:29.764 You open that door to joy, and I've seen it. 01:46:29.904 --> 01:46:30.914 I've seen it working. 01:46:31.134 --> 01:46:32.274 And I felt it in my own body. 01:46:32.274 --> 01:46:35.914 I've had Linda put her hands on me and gone, Oh my gosh, this is extraordinary. 01:46:36.874 --> 01:46:43.364 If somebody is running a program, and, you know, equine assisted programs 01:46:43.384 --> 01:46:47.664 are often Staff, the equines in those programs are often donated horses. 01:46:48.094 --> 01:46:50.384 Donated horses are usually donated for a reason. 01:46:50.834 --> 01:46:52.294 They're usually messed up. 01:46:52.404 --> 01:46:54.724 They've, they've, they've been broken to some degree. 01:46:55.304 --> 01:46:59.334 And they're, they may be working the program because they're quiet. 01:47:00.744 --> 01:47:05.054 One frequently sees unhappy horses, stiff horses, horses clearly in pain. 01:47:05.424 --> 01:47:10.104 And of course, how are these horses supposed to transmit well being 01:47:10.844 --> 01:47:12.234 when they themselves don't have it? 01:47:13.784 --> 01:47:20.739 If you were to give advice To somebody who was going into this field and getting 01:47:20.739 --> 01:47:23.699 their horses from these disparate sources. 01:47:24.509 --> 01:47:29.309 What would be your main go tos and piece of advice that, you know, you're in the 01:47:29.309 --> 01:47:32.469 pub, someone says, Hey, Robin, I'm gonna start this thing and I'm gonna start 01:47:32.469 --> 01:47:35.189 working with autistic kids, or I'm gonna start working with veterans, or I'm gonna 01:47:35.189 --> 01:47:36.559 start working with people with trauma. 01:47:37.059 --> 01:47:38.919 And yeah, I've got the, you know, some therapy, some 01:47:38.919 --> 01:47:40.189 donation horses are coming in. 01:47:40.419 --> 01:47:44.039 You probably in your mind would go, Ooh, yeah, I can kind of picture what some 01:47:44.039 --> 01:47:45.449 of these horses will be coming in with. 01:47:45.809 --> 01:47:51.879 What would your go to one, two, three, to be sure to look out for 01:47:52.309 --> 01:47:56.579 and to be sure to do and to be sure to not do be to that person? 01:48:00.439 --> 01:48:02.239 Robyn Hood: Good, good question. 01:48:02.329 --> 01:48:08.864 I the first thing that That that I do when I kind of see a horse that somebody asked 01:48:08.864 --> 01:48:10.244 me to look at the horse, whatever it is. 01:48:10.244 --> 01:48:16.564 And I, I kind of get a sense of, first of all, what their overall response 01:48:16.564 --> 01:48:18.564 is for just when humans are near them. 01:48:19.094 --> 01:48:20.394 And that doesn't mean that I can't. 01:48:21.449 --> 01:48:24.979 influence how they feel about humans. 01:48:25.269 --> 01:48:28.669 Because there are, there are some horses that once you then, because then I, 01:48:28.739 --> 01:48:32.439 I would see if I could put my hands on, start with the back of the hand, 01:48:32.599 --> 01:48:34.459 where can you actually make contact? 01:48:34.489 --> 01:48:36.769 What's the horse's response to that contact? 01:48:37.139 --> 01:48:41.049 So that I can That I can, I guess it depends on also what they're 01:48:41.049 --> 01:48:44.479 going to be using the horses for, you know, like, are they expected? 01:48:44.519 --> 01:48:45.699 Are they, are they for riding? 01:48:45.699 --> 01:48:49.799 Because not all horses are in the, in the, you know, equine assisted therapy. 01:48:50.099 --> 01:48:50.979 They're not all for riding. 01:48:50.999 --> 01:48:55.799 So that would be one thing that I would what I would, you know, kind of look at. 01:48:56.129 --> 01:49:03.329 And then also, the thing is, when we do TTouch on horses, We have so frequently 01:49:03.329 --> 01:49:10.419 been able to make pretty dramatic changes in, especially in their, and 01:49:10.419 --> 01:49:12.149 I want to say, I don't, attitude. 01:49:12.149 --> 01:49:13.619 It's not really that it's their attitude. 01:49:13.619 --> 01:49:16.669 It's their experience, their prior experience with humans. 01:49:16.959 --> 01:49:21.609 And when you change that, that experience, because you treat them in a different way. 01:49:22.234 --> 01:49:25.474 It, it changes them because, you know, we get horses on our farm. 01:49:25.474 --> 01:49:28.974 Now, mostly we board horses, but even when I have horses that come up here for 01:49:28.974 --> 01:49:33.644 clinics and they have, you know, people will say they do this, this and this. 01:49:33.844 --> 01:49:36.814 You hardly ever do it here because we have a different energy 01:49:36.814 --> 01:49:38.724 about the attitude that we have. 01:49:39.044 --> 01:49:41.834 About the horses and what we expect them to do. 01:49:41.854 --> 01:49:47.324 So, I mean, I would encourage anybody to learn even basics of tea touch so 01:49:47.324 --> 01:49:51.774 that they can go over the horse and have the horse learn, learn from the 01:49:51.774 --> 01:49:56.104 horse, you know, that they'll let the horse know they'll listen to them. 01:49:56.304 --> 01:50:00.174 I think that's it is absolutely really is really critical. 01:50:00.574 --> 01:50:05.054 And, and of course, I mean, obviously, do you ride most of your horses with saddles? 01:50:06.369 --> 01:50:06.949 Rupert Isaacson: Yes. 01:50:07.079 --> 01:50:08.689 I'm not averse to riding bareback. 01:50:08.759 --> 01:50:10.599 But in general, we would ride it with a saddle. 01:50:10.599 --> 01:50:10.939 Yeah. 01:50:10.939 --> 01:50:13.399 Robyn Hood: No, no, I just, because I mean, I think that's the other 01:50:13.529 --> 01:50:20.259 huge challenge is finding saddles that are going to be functioning 01:50:20.269 --> 01:50:24.319 well for the horse and, and for the riders, because it's not just enough 01:50:24.319 --> 01:50:25.799 that it's for the, for the horse. 01:50:25.809 --> 01:50:29.169 So, I mean, there's a lot of things that have to go in, into it. 01:50:29.169 --> 01:50:33.439 I, I also would ask them, what's the lifestyle going to be for this horse? 01:50:33.764 --> 01:50:37.514 You know, what, you know, are, do they, are they going to have 01:50:37.514 --> 01:50:38.404 friends if they have friends? 01:50:38.404 --> 01:50:40.034 Do they have enough space to have friends? 01:50:40.064 --> 01:50:44.004 You know, like that, because that can be having friend, frenemies can 01:50:44.004 --> 01:50:47.194 be worse if you don't have enough space to get away from them, you 01:50:47.194 --> 01:50:48.394 know, that, that sort of thing. 01:50:48.834 --> 01:50:55.714 So it's not really I can't say that I have enough experience with looking for horses, 01:50:55.714 --> 01:50:59.294 but I, I would be looking for horses that I would call functionally sound. 01:50:59.754 --> 01:51:04.044 That's to me because none of us are necessarily a hundred percent sound, 01:51:04.054 --> 01:51:08.344 but it does depend on what you're going to do with them and how you're going to 01:51:08.374 --> 01:51:09.454 ask them and what you're going to do. 01:51:09.454 --> 01:51:12.144 And I had a little bit of a theory about, 01:51:14.524 --> 01:51:19.714 you know, about this concept of us because a lot of writers period, 01:51:19.724 --> 01:51:24.024 whether they're able bodied or not, are not very well balanced. 01:51:25.404 --> 01:51:27.344 Now, if you have a course I'm going to say that about 01:51:27.344 --> 01:51:27.974 Rupert Isaacson: myself, honestly. 01:51:28.654 --> 01:51:29.494 Robyn Hood: Yeah, for sure. 01:51:30.014 --> 01:51:35.034 If you have a horse that always has to carry the same rider with the 01:51:35.034 --> 01:51:39.994 same, with their same imbalances and doing things exactly the same way. 01:51:40.674 --> 01:51:46.174 Is it possible that it can be actually a little bit easier for horses that 01:51:46.184 --> 01:51:50.984 carry different riders that maybe have slightly different imbalances, so it's 01:51:51.004 --> 01:51:55.404 not constantly being created the same one because I see some less than horses. 01:51:55.404 --> 01:51:57.754 And as you were saying earlier, there are horses that kind of go 01:51:57.754 --> 01:51:59.654 along and kind of do their job. 01:51:59.654 --> 01:52:03.634 And and they're, you know, they're pretty happy about it, 01:52:03.834 --> 01:52:05.354 depending on the rider and so on. 01:52:05.934 --> 01:52:09.604 And I wonder, though, if that isn't for in some cases. 01:52:10.944 --> 01:52:14.654 if it doesn't balance out their body a little bit easier than having the same, 01:52:14.944 --> 01:52:17.904 same old, same old rider who does things. 01:52:17.904 --> 01:52:18.404 I don't know. 01:52:18.794 --> 01:52:20.674 Rupert Isaacson: Yeah, no, so I think, I think, I think what you put your 01:52:20.674 --> 01:52:25.494 finger on there is the difference in chronic repetitive and novel. 01:52:26.084 --> 01:52:31.024 Yeah, we, we encourage people to do as much in hand work as possible, long 01:52:31.024 --> 01:52:32.534 reigning as possible, that sort of thing. 01:52:32.534 --> 01:52:36.654 And incorporate that into the sessions because otherwise you'll never have 01:52:36.654 --> 01:52:42.804 time to do it, you know, just build that back as much as you can so that it has a 01:52:42.804 --> 01:52:47.094 sporting chance of carrying some weight, you know, but it's, it's interesting 01:52:47.094 --> 01:52:48.684 how this type of thing is not normally. 01:52:49.014 --> 01:52:52.534 Part of the conversation around therapeutic stuff. 01:52:52.534 --> 01:52:55.504 It's usually all about how you serve the person, which of course is 01:52:55.504 --> 01:52:59.494 vitally important But it leaves out if the horse hasn't got well being. 01:52:59.544 --> 01:53:01.884 Well, how how how are you going to track? 01:53:02.134 --> 01:53:05.944 So your point too about how is the horse living? 01:53:06.874 --> 01:53:08.234 I think is also a very good one. 01:53:08.474 --> 01:53:13.204 Is there enough space that if they are living socially it's 01:53:13.214 --> 01:53:14.964 functional not dysfunctional? 01:53:15.224 --> 01:53:18.504 Because of course now keeping horses in boxes has gotten a bad name. 01:53:19.184 --> 01:53:23.374 And I go around so many different stables and I see horses living in every 01:53:23.764 --> 01:53:29.219 possible way from having half of the state of Wyoming as their, you know, 01:53:29.219 --> 01:53:34.759 thing, or probably, you know, Alberta to, for example, we've got a project 01:53:34.789 --> 01:53:39.629 with Horseboy in the middle of Dublin, like in the middle of the city, and 01:53:39.639 --> 01:53:40.889 no, the horses have to be in boxes. 01:53:40.899 --> 01:53:44.529 Now, it's mitigated by the fact that they get a lot of free movement in 01:53:44.529 --> 01:53:49.979 the arena, and they get regularly rotated out to fields in County Meath. 01:53:50.694 --> 01:53:54.064 So, you know, people are, you know, they're approaching it rationally and 01:53:54.064 --> 01:53:55.174 they're approaching it compassionately. 01:53:55.724 --> 01:53:58.374 But I don't think those horses are unhappy at all, because the way 01:53:58.374 --> 01:54:02.554 they're engaged and the way that they're worked is Sympathetic. 01:54:03.064 --> 01:54:05.324 And I've seen horses that are kept in rather naturalistic 01:54:05.324 --> 01:54:06.574 environments be quite depressed. 01:54:06.684 --> 01:54:09.924 So it's interesting I've realized that there's no hard and fast rules about 01:54:09.934 --> 01:54:13.094 these things It's so much of it seems to be and you were talking about patting 01:54:13.094 --> 01:54:15.164 horses, you know, do they like it? 01:54:15.164 --> 01:54:15.724 Do they hate it? 01:54:15.724 --> 01:54:18.974 Well, I think so much of it is about the intention behind it You know, if 01:54:18.974 --> 01:54:24.559 you hug someone and they pat you on the back that can feel immensely supportive. 01:54:24.949 --> 01:54:29.269 It can feel also absolutely awful depending on how they pat you and 01:54:29.269 --> 01:54:30.819 what the intention is behind the pat. 01:54:31.309 --> 01:54:36.099 So I think one of the things I love about your work. 01:54:36.729 --> 01:54:42.019 is that the intention is paramount. 01:54:42.199 --> 01:54:46.579 You know, I've, I've, I've heard Linda say it so often, put your heart in your hands 01:54:48.079 --> 01:54:49.669 and then put your hands on the horse. 01:54:49.669 --> 01:54:51.909 And of course, that could be with a person too. 01:54:51.909 --> 01:54:55.289 And I remember the first time I heard her say that, I went, Oh, of course. 01:54:55.319 --> 01:54:56.694 But Do I do that? 01:54:57.384 --> 01:55:01.514 And then as soon as I started consciously doing that, I heard 01:55:01.514 --> 01:55:03.384 her say that at Equitano once. 01:55:03.384 --> 01:55:05.724 I was like, Oh my gosh, it made such a difference. 01:55:05.724 --> 01:55:09.444 And then another thing which I heard from T Touch was Instead of 01:55:09.444 --> 01:55:11.034 trying to make your horse feel safe, 01:55:13.094 --> 01:55:18.844 or project safety, just project the thought, I. 01:55:20.089 --> 01:55:20.719 I'm safety. 01:55:21.029 --> 01:55:21.689 I am safe. 01:55:21.689 --> 01:55:24.069 I am safety and see what that does yours. 01:55:24.099 --> 01:55:28.169 And I started doing it and horses just started coming 01:55:28.169 --> 01:55:29.239 and standing right next to me. 01:55:29.649 --> 01:55:33.519 So it's so interesting how you guys have, you know, there's great 01:55:33.519 --> 01:55:37.039 complexity to your work once you begin and subtlety to your work. 01:55:37.039 --> 01:55:40.659 And we started this conversation with Feldenkrais and so on and the 01:55:40.719 --> 01:55:44.269 multiple, multiple different ways in which you can touch and feeling 01:55:44.449 --> 01:55:45.459 out and listening to the horse. 01:55:45.719 --> 01:55:50.684 And yet at the same time, you don't make it so Vague and impossible to follow 01:55:51.794 --> 01:55:56.144 there are no steps and you you you you do actually narrow it down to certain 01:55:56.144 --> 01:55:59.544 ways to touch that Any of us can do or certain intentions that we can put into 01:55:59.544 --> 01:56:04.224 our bodies That are going to transfer that emotion to the horse and it works. 01:56:04.224 --> 01:56:04.684 It works. 01:56:04.684 --> 01:56:11.054 It works So if people wanted to learn more, how do they do it? 01:56:11.134 --> 01:56:14.474 How do they get in touch with you and then if they want to become say a practitioner? 01:56:14.474 --> 01:56:16.484 What's the process by which they'd have to go? 01:56:18.269 --> 01:56:20.999 Robyn Hood: We, because of COVID, like, you know, before COVID, 01:56:20.999 --> 01:56:24.669 I, I traveled five months of the year for pretty much 30 years. 01:56:24.734 --> 01:56:28.434 And I loved it, and I didn't think that I had any other choice, you 01:56:28.434 --> 01:56:30.054 know, you do what you do, right? 01:56:30.834 --> 01:56:35.464 And then COVID hit, and so I had time to put things online, because I wanted 01:56:35.464 --> 01:56:38.664 to for years, but I just didn't, I was never home long enough to do it. 01:56:39.044 --> 01:56:42.464 And we have a platform called learn. 01:56:42.654 --> 01:56:42.994 ttouch. 01:56:44.814 --> 01:56:47.964 ca And on that Learn. 01:56:48.054 --> 01:56:48.274 ttouch. 01:56:50.874 --> 01:56:51.394 ca. 01:56:52.624 --> 01:56:57.344 And we have on it, we have some free like little mini module courses 01:56:57.344 --> 01:57:01.884 too that like one for horses and a couple for dogs and one for cats. 01:57:02.074 --> 01:57:06.074 So people can just like register and they don't pay anything. 01:57:06.074 --> 01:57:08.764 They get that, they get that module and kind of takes you 01:57:08.784 --> 01:57:11.504 through the, the aspects of it. 01:57:11.504 --> 01:57:12.084 Now we have. 01:57:13.074 --> 01:57:16.874 We also then have courses that are on very like specific things. 01:57:16.874 --> 01:57:22.344 I have a body wrapping, self paced course and intro to T Touch and so on. 01:57:22.344 --> 01:57:26.474 And then we have these, the core elements course. 01:57:26.474 --> 01:57:31.644 If people want to be practitioners or go deeper into it, I started 01:57:31.654 --> 01:57:36.024 doing them for the last almost year is immersion courses where I take 01:57:36.024 --> 01:57:38.624 people over Six months actually. 01:57:38.644 --> 01:57:43.234 And they, so they, they have lifetime access to the online, which has many, 01:57:43.234 --> 01:57:49.114 many hours of the topics broken into pieces and video and PowerPoint and so on. 01:57:49.464 --> 01:57:52.944 And then in the immersion classes, I add more information. 01:57:52.944 --> 01:57:56.894 Plus we discuss things and go into the detail and. 01:57:57.349 --> 01:57:59.979 It's actually worked it's worked really well. 01:57:59.979 --> 01:58:04.689 We have a, we have a practitioner in India, the first practitioner in India. 01:58:04.789 --> 01:58:08.889 She did it all online and she presented actually at our celebration. 01:58:10.769 --> 01:58:17.599 The changes the healing that she's had from dogs and cats in India, and she 01:58:17.599 --> 01:58:20.929 has a kind of a private rescue and she works with lots of different rescues. 01:58:21.239 --> 01:58:21.969 Phenomenal. 01:58:22.009 --> 01:58:27.389 I mean, animals that were given no hope and and and some 01:58:27.389 --> 01:58:28.999 of them like in one session. 01:58:28.999 --> 01:58:32.609 And as she said, you know, no one was more surprised than than I was. 01:58:32.609 --> 01:58:35.369 And again, you know, as I said before, I've done this. 01:58:35.449 --> 01:58:37.859 I've done this now for over 40 years and. 01:58:38.304 --> 01:58:40.154 I'm still surprised when it works. 01:58:40.254 --> 01:58:41.014 And so is Linda. 01:58:41.794 --> 01:58:46.174 And I love that because I would hate to do something that you felt so, 01:58:46.204 --> 01:58:50.024 oh, you do this because you can't know, we know that there'll be a 01:58:50.024 --> 01:58:51.874 change, but we don't know what. 01:58:52.404 --> 01:58:54.904 And that's the, you know, the part of looking for it. 01:58:54.904 --> 01:58:57.374 So there's a lot that can be done online. 01:58:57.394 --> 01:59:00.574 I'm, I'm going to Linda's going to be. 01:59:01.684 --> 01:59:03.634 Not sure how much she'll be in Europe this year. 01:59:03.634 --> 01:59:04.564 She'll be in Ewa. 01:59:04.564 --> 01:59:07.024 I'm coming for a few days for Ewa, just to 01:59:07.084 --> 01:59:07.684 Rupert Isaacson: Oh, you well, great. 01:59:07.684 --> 01:59:08.224 We'll meet then. 01:59:08.224 --> 01:59:08.614 'cause we'll be there. 01:59:08.614 --> 01:59:08.824 Yeah, 01:59:08.824 --> 01:59:09.109 Robyn Hood: yeah, yeah. 01:59:09.114 --> 01:59:11.824 I, I'll be there for the last three days to be at the party, the 01:59:11.824 --> 01:59:13.504 50th anniversary party and so on. 01:59:13.519 --> 01:59:13.869 Rupert Isaacson: 50 01:59:13.869 --> 01:59:14.149 years. 01:59:14.579 --> 01:59:14.869 Gosh. 01:59:14.889 --> 01:59:15.109 Wow. 01:59:15.349 --> 01:59:15.724 Robyn Hood: I know. 01:59:15.724 --> 01:59:18.694 It's, it's, it's just, it's just remarkable. 01:59:18.694 --> 01:59:22.744 And you know, I just have to say, I mean, my sister, there's 01:59:22.774 --> 01:59:26.994 nobody that is as she's just. 01:59:27.864 --> 01:59:31.864 She cares a lot and she's just so open to to to people. 01:59:31.864 --> 01:59:36.374 She'll do a lot for people and I, you know, she's really very, very remarkable. 01:59:37.314 --> 01:59:40.134 And then I'll be in England doing something with horses and 01:59:40.134 --> 01:59:44.294 dogs in April in France in April as well, doing a few things. 01:59:44.294 --> 01:59:45.064 And then in Holland. 01:59:45.799 --> 01:59:48.249 Just doing the work with dogs in Holland. 01:59:48.529 --> 01:59:52.569 So ideally, and we do have practitioners in different countries, 01:59:52.569 --> 01:59:54.159 too, that are doing workshops. 01:59:54.159 --> 02:00:00.389 So, so because we don't do so many in person things, my concept of this online 02:00:00.399 --> 02:00:06.769 is that if people can also go to workshops with people who are You know, who are 02:00:06.769 --> 02:00:11.069 qualified practitioners and get the hands on portion, because what they have to 02:00:11.069 --> 02:00:15.699 do is demonstrate to us through video or in person or whatever a competency 02:00:16.379 --> 02:00:16.609 that, 02:00:16.859 --> 02:00:18.839 Robyn Hood: you know, that that's, that's the thing. 02:00:18.839 --> 02:00:20.559 And I mean, the beauty of this is that. 02:00:21.204 --> 02:00:25.234 Even if you know a little bit you can that you can really help and the more 02:00:25.234 --> 02:00:29.474 you know in some ways the less you teach I mean because you try to pare it 02:00:29.474 --> 02:00:34.794 down to what might be the most helpful for that person in in that moment. 02:00:35.734 --> 02:00:39.334 Rupert Isaacson: So if somebody wanted to go down the route or serve learning to 02:00:39.334 --> 02:00:43.924 become a practitioner and or eventually trainer, it all starts with learn dot. 02:00:43.939 --> 02:00:46.279 Yeah, 02:00:46.439 --> 02:00:49.269 Robyn Hood: or going to if you, if you have the availability of 02:00:49.269 --> 02:00:52.759 going to a workshop with someone, of course, that can be your first. 02:00:52.999 --> 02:00:55.189 Rupert Isaacson: But would you find those workshops on that website? 02:00:55.499 --> 02:00:57.999 Robyn Hood: The website, the website that you're going to find the 02:00:58.009 --> 02:01:02.019 international ones on is, is ttouch. 02:01:02.059 --> 02:01:02.419 com. 02:01:02.729 --> 02:01:03.209 Rupert Isaacson: ttouch. 02:01:04.369 --> 02:01:04.399 com. 02:01:04.439 --> 02:01:04.799 Okay. 02:01:05.199 --> 02:01:06.969 So if I'm sitting in. 02:01:07.499 --> 02:01:12.169 London or Dubai or Rio de Janeiro. 02:01:12.669 --> 02:01:16.399 And I want to see if there's a trainer or practitioner near me 02:01:16.399 --> 02:01:17.769 that I can go to a live course with. 02:01:18.049 --> 02:01:19.129 That will be ttouch. 02:01:19.159 --> 02:01:19.449 com. 02:01:20.229 --> 02:01:22.909 Robyn Hood: Yeah, that'll, that'll give you, there are some, like the 02:01:22.909 --> 02:01:26.779 German ones aren't on because they're, they have their own guild site. 02:01:27.259 --> 02:01:31.869 There are, I don't know the names of all the websites of the specific 02:01:31.869 --> 02:01:36.634 countries, like Germany has, has, A lot of practitioners, Austria. 02:01:38.824 --> 02:01:43.554 Just trying to think of what countries have active websites right now? 02:01:43.764 --> 02:01:46.974 Switzerland, probably the uk South Africa. 02:01:47.844 --> 02:01:48.024 Would there 02:01:48.024 --> 02:01:49.914 Rupert Isaacson: be links to those sites on T Touch, 02:01:50.154 --> 02:01:50.724 Robyn Hood: yes. 02:01:50.724 --> 02:01:51.984 On t touch.com, 02:01:51.984 --> 02:01:54.504 there are links to the international Okay. 02:01:54.504 --> 02:01:55.104 Perfect Sites. 02:01:55.104 --> 02:01:58.944 And if they don't see something on like the site or a pro or 02:01:58.944 --> 02:02:01.554 a listing or whatever, if they go to one of those, that's. 02:02:01.994 --> 02:02:04.014 The best the best response. 02:02:04.024 --> 02:02:04.294 I, of 02:02:04.294 --> 02:02:05.324 Rupert Isaacson: course, found the German one. 02:02:05.324 --> 02:02:06.234 It's ttouch. 02:02:06.254 --> 02:02:06.744 de. 02:02:07.314 --> 02:02:07.704 Yeah, there 02:02:07.704 --> 02:02:08.014 Robyn Hood: you go. 02:02:08.084 --> 02:02:08.614 There you go. 02:02:09.104 --> 02:02:09.364 Yeah. 02:02:09.464 --> 02:02:11.684 Rupert Isaacson: Which, by the way, immediately translated to English. 02:02:11.944 --> 02:02:13.964 Robyn Hood: Yeah, no, it's a good, it's a really good website. 02:02:14.134 --> 02:02:15.964 Rupert Isaacson: But if, if people know that ttouch. 02:02:15.994 --> 02:02:19.884 com is the sort of central hub, and then they could find some links to 02:02:19.904 --> 02:02:21.454 what's relevant to their country there. 02:02:21.604 --> 02:02:21.694 Yeah. 02:02:21.944 --> 02:02:24.574 But if they want to learn online, it's learn. 02:02:24.634 --> 02:02:25.654 Dot t 02:02:25.654 --> 02:02:27.084 Robyn Hood: touch dot c a. 02:02:27.764 --> 02:02:31.934 And actually the a lot of the online courses if they're if 02:02:31.934 --> 02:02:36.664 they're with zoom attachments like with zoom classes will also be on 02:02:36.664 --> 02:02:41.004 the t touch dot com events page. 02:02:43.804 --> 02:02:47.974 Rupert Isaacson: Okay, well, luckily for us, my wife is heading 02:02:47.974 --> 02:02:50.084 down the practitioner path. 02:02:50.194 --> 02:02:50.664 Robyn Hood: Yes, she is. 02:02:50.684 --> 02:02:50.894 Our 02:02:51.284 --> 02:02:52.814 Rupert Isaacson: horses benefit massively. 02:02:53.234 --> 02:02:55.024 And I couldn't support it more. 02:02:55.054 --> 02:02:55.754 I think that. 02:02:56.604 --> 02:03:01.464 I know that, I see that, what you guys do is not only something 02:03:01.464 --> 02:03:04.454 that's special to you and Linda, but it's highly transferable. 02:03:04.474 --> 02:03:08.854 I've seen lots of people learn it and get amazing outcomes with 02:03:08.854 --> 02:03:10.754 their animals and with each other. 02:03:11.674 --> 02:03:16.024 Robyn Hood: And, you know, I think that's the, the thing Linda's always been. 02:03:16.444 --> 02:03:19.244 I mean, the whole thing we've been so open to what we want to share the work. 02:03:19.244 --> 02:03:21.334 If you're interested, we're, we're happy to teach you. 02:03:21.344 --> 02:03:24.604 We're not going to, we're not going to try to make, we're not going to try to 02:03:24.604 --> 02:03:28.744 convince someone that they, that they need to learn it, but we're absolutely there. 02:03:29.184 --> 02:03:33.404 And it doesn't matter if Linda can do it, or if I can do it, or if other 02:03:33.404 --> 02:03:38.394 teachers, the aim of it is to teach the average person to be able to do 02:03:38.394 --> 02:03:41.584 it with their own animal, because it really, you know, we can't, you We can't 02:03:41.614 --> 02:03:45.924 have every animal, so it makes sense that we can teach people how to do it. 02:03:46.374 --> 02:03:49.504 That, that's really, that's the deal. 02:03:50.324 --> 02:03:52.314 Rupert Isaacson: Absolutely, you know, it's, it, I think 02:03:52.344 --> 02:03:53.814 the other thing which is so 02:03:56.624 --> 02:04:02.694 immediately apparent when one goes to a T Touch event is the 02:04:02.694 --> 02:04:04.184 loving quality of the community. 02:04:04.814 --> 02:04:07.364 And you know, with us, with Horseboy, it's quite similar. 02:04:07.424 --> 02:04:10.244 It's an international community of people that really support each other 02:04:10.244 --> 02:04:14.254 and really like each other and go out of their way to try and help each other. 02:04:14.474 --> 02:04:17.734 And I've really seen that with the T Touch community. 02:04:17.734 --> 02:04:21.724 It's, I think the sort of person who's attracted to it is always. 02:04:22.574 --> 02:04:23.784 Connected, caring human. 02:04:24.264 --> 02:04:27.034 So when you get a bunch of them together, it's a very nice place to be. 02:04:27.584 --> 02:04:29.694 I'm looking forward to Ecuador 2020. 02:04:29.944 --> 02:04:30.374 We saw 02:04:30.374 --> 02:04:31.734 Robyn Hood: that at the celebration. 02:04:31.734 --> 02:04:34.654 We had some, we had a number of people that were pretty new. 02:04:34.654 --> 02:04:39.184 I don't even know how they got there, but they, they were just struck by 02:04:39.634 --> 02:04:45.684 the welcoming part of this kind of this, you know, family community. 02:04:46.124 --> 02:04:52.024 And It's so much fun to just meet new people and, and and have them, you know, 02:04:52.064 --> 02:04:55.764 just become engaged in the work, but they, you know, they have to have a, they 02:04:55.764 --> 02:05:00.214 have to have interest, you know, it's like there's a, there's, there's a reason 02:05:00.214 --> 02:05:04.584 that, you know, that things that things happen, that things happen as they do. 02:05:05.384 --> 02:05:06.194 Rupert Isaacson: Absolutely. 02:05:06.264 --> 02:05:11.964 And you know, in the world of factionalism and rivalry that can 02:05:11.964 --> 02:05:14.294 so often typify the horse world. 02:05:15.304 --> 02:05:21.154 It's such a breath of fresh air to come across people like you, so hats off. 02:05:22.464 --> 02:05:22.924 Robyn Hood: Thank you. 02:05:22.964 --> 02:05:23.334 Thank you. 02:05:23.364 --> 02:05:24.024 I mean, it's fun. 02:05:24.024 --> 02:05:25.504 I wouldn't do it if it's fun. 02:05:25.504 --> 02:05:29.784 It's like we had a great keynote speaker that she's that spent a year 02:05:29.784 --> 02:05:34.194 with me before she went into vet school and and she said her theory is this. 02:05:35.439 --> 02:05:37.849 If it's not fun, don't do it. 02:05:38.519 --> 02:05:40.329 And if you have to do it, make it fun. 02:05:41.969 --> 02:05:42.809 And I'm writing that 02:05:42.809 --> 02:05:43.359 Rupert Isaacson: one down too. 02:05:43.359 --> 02:05:46.229 If it's not fun, don't do it. 02:05:48.629 --> 02:05:51.449 And if it's not fun. 02:05:51.919 --> 02:05:53.079 Robyn Hood: No, if you have to do it. 02:05:53.269 --> 02:05:54.569 Rupert Isaacson: And if you have to do it. 02:05:54.719 --> 02:05:54.939 Robyn Hood: Yeah. 02:05:55.029 --> 02:05:55.409 Thank you. 02:05:55.409 --> 02:05:55.959 And if you have 02:05:55.959 --> 02:05:56.399 Rupert Isaacson: to do it. 02:05:56.469 --> 02:05:56.619 Make it 02:06:00.429 --> 02:06:00.729 fun. 02:06:00.789 --> 02:06:02.094 Lovely words to live by. 02:06:02.524 --> 02:06:03.374 Robyn Hood: They, yeah, they are. 02:06:03.434 --> 02:06:07.289 She gave such a great presentations and you know, about working with 02:06:07.599 --> 02:06:09.429 senior, do you know, senior animals? 02:06:09.429 --> 02:06:11.469 And she had just such she was fun. 02:06:11.469 --> 02:06:15.669 It was a great, great presentation and it was, we just had, we had a lot of fun. 02:06:15.789 --> 02:06:16.359 A lot of fun. 02:06:16.359 --> 02:06:17.649 At the, at the subway. 02:06:17.949 --> 02:06:18.369 Rupert Isaacson: Who was that? 02:06:18.369 --> 02:06:18.729 Who was that speaker? 02:06:19.059 --> 02:06:20.859 Robyn Hood: Her name is Stephanie Cote. 02:06:21.249 --> 02:06:22.899 C-O-T-E-C. 02:06:23.339 --> 02:06:25.079 Rupert Isaacson: Cote as in the, like in the French? 02:06:25.084 --> 02:06:25.374 Robyn Hood: Yeah. 02:06:25.404 --> 02:06:25.949 Yeah, yeah. 02:06:26.069 --> 02:06:27.059 Rupert Isaacson: Okay, we'll, we'll look up. 02:06:27.389 --> 02:06:28.739 Sounds like someone I should have on the show. 02:06:29.409 --> 02:06:30.509 Robyn Hood: Oh, yeah, absolutely. 02:06:30.519 --> 02:06:31.309 She's amazing. 02:06:31.589 --> 02:06:32.069 Stephanie with a 02:06:32.069 --> 02:06:33.239 Rupert Isaacson: PH, I'm writing it down. 02:06:33.239 --> 02:06:33.449 Yeah, 02:06:33.449 --> 02:06:33.889 Robyn Hood: PH. 02:06:33.889 --> 02:06:34.789 Stephanie with a PH. 02:06:34.789 --> 02:06:35.689 I can, I can 02:06:36.489 --> 02:06:36.519 Rupert Isaacson: get 02:06:36.719 --> 02:06:37.789 Robyn Hood: you her email if you like. 02:06:37.839 --> 02:06:38.159 You 02:06:38.229 --> 02:06:38.579 Rupert Isaacson: do. 02:06:39.069 --> 02:06:40.619 That would be grand. 02:06:41.229 --> 02:06:41.439 Robyn Hood: Yeah. 02:06:41.459 --> 02:06:43.269 Rupert Isaacson: Well, Robin, it's been an honor. 02:06:43.269 --> 02:06:46.165 Thank you so much for coming on and giving us wisdom. 02:06:46.165 --> 02:06:46.456 Robyn Hood: My 02:06:46.456 --> 02:06:46.747 Rupert Isaacson: pleasure. 02:06:46.747 --> 02:06:47.330 My pleasure. 02:06:47.330 --> 02:06:47.621 It 02:06:47.621 --> 02:06:51.499 Robyn Hood: was so nice to meet you, and I look forward to seeing you in Germany. 02:06:51.769 --> 02:06:52.359 Rupert Isaacson: Absolutely. 02:06:52.359 --> 02:06:55.479 I hope you enjoyed today's conversation as much as I did. 02:06:56.019 --> 02:07:00.919 If you like what we're doing here, please do like, subscribe, tell a friend. 02:07:00.929 --> 02:07:05.099 It so helps us to get this valuable work done and the message of 02:07:05.099 --> 02:07:06.979 Equine Assisted Stuff out there. 02:07:07.129 --> 02:07:10.209 And if you're interested in more 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