Jon: Welcome to empathy deployed the podcast where you can experience an
example customer interview every week.
You'll discover new perspectives on different software products and improve
your customer interview technique.
As I attempt to do the same
I'm Jonathan Manuel.
And this week I'll be interviewing.
Megan says, Megan is a customer of toggle toggles, a time-tracking to.
How are we trying to understand why Megan purchased, toggle, how she uses it
and what alternatives she's considered?
Megan is one half of the design partnership.
Make good design, make good design is on a mission to elevate the brands
that are doing good in the world.
Hi, Megan, thank you so much for, uh, taking the time to,
uh, to talk to us, um, today.
Um, uh, before we get started, um, I just wanted to ask if you have any questions.
I'm very keen to ask you all about, um, toggle and why you've decided
to use that piece of software for your, for your business.
Um, so I wanted to always make sure that you're comfortable with, uh,
recording this, um, Normally a customer interview, like this might record
it to help me so that I don't have to take notes all the way through.
And so that I might share with colleagues, but obviously this is a podcast and
it's going out to, um, anyone that panties listening to and learning
from this experience for both of us.
So, uh, yeah, you have comfortable with that.
Yeah.
Excellent.
Um, right.
So, uh, first question, can you tell me about, um, how you got to the
point of needing a time tracking tool?
I'm assuming that's the main reason you're using, um, toggle?
Yeah,
Megan: well, actually I've always used one for a really long time now.
Um, but I didn't always use toggle.
Um, and it used to be.
When I was a freelancer or even at the small agency that I used to work
at, we needed to sort of keep track of how long we spent on certain projects.
Um, in some cases that's just to monitor things and sort of
work out how long things take.
So we know how much to invoice or charge next time.
In other cases, it's because we're charging the client
so of per the hour per day.
So it's a good way to keep.
Um, and then most recently where we formed a company of two of us, um,
it became even more important to, uh, especially at the beginning, keep track
of how much work we were both doing.
Um, because initially that's actually how we were giving up, um, how much we were
earning and paying, paying ourselves.
Um, we're sort of moving away from that model a little bit now, but.
It was really important to sort of keep tracks on, on what we were doing.
Jon: Yeah.
That makes sense.
And, um, and so can you walk me through, um, the, the process of, of, of tracking
your time and what's, um, output it is that you want out of the end of it?
Um, yeah, that, that can be how you're used to do it as well as
how you're, you're doing it now.
Um, so
Megan: there's two ways we do it.
One is when I'm working.
Um, if I know that that client is one where I need to be literally
tracking how much time, because we want to retain it for them.
So we need to know when we use that plummet.
Um, as soon as I start working on their work, I have the, um, Coco
program pinned in my Chrome browser and I open it up and hit record.
Um, I know that Becky, my business partner actually does it retrospectively.
So she goes back in at the end of the day and just puts in how
much she's spent on each project.
Um,
Jon: that's
Megan: one way of doing it the other way.
Is also the other way.
Yeah.
I suppose what Becky does is retrospectively going in sort of pitching
in, or sometimes it's just like, we're working for a whole day for that clients.
We just go back in and put it in retrospectively.
Jon: Yeah.
And was that process similar with previous tools?
Um, did you, was there ever a time where you didn't have a tool, but
you were tracking your, your time?
Um,
Megan: I've been, I had phases where I happened when I've just been on the road.
Straight forward contract.
It really doesn't need any time tracking.
We've built up that trust with the client and then interested in seeing
then you kind of will break down.
Um, but I used to have.
Uh, the different products it's called office time.
And I used that for about probably seven or eight years.
And that was, um, it had an app that was set up in my toolbar at the bottom.
Um, and so I was a bit worried about moving away from that one because then
having it in the browser instead, but.
It was, I mean, one day of remembering that it's not down there and actually
it's up that I needed to click.
Um,
Jon: yeah, I think so.
And, and so do you have like, um, as a habit or a muscle memory of, of going
to a tool when you're starting work?
Yeah.
Megan: There have been times when it's been very muscle memory that a movement.
It depends.
It depends on how we're working at the moment.
It's getting back to muscle memory because I'm juggling a few different projects.
I need to keep track, but more.
But it there's been times when it's been so muscle memory that it's like
a process of put my headphones in, hit play on Spotify and hit play on
the, um, local office time product.
And I actually, at one point used to think to myself, it'd be so good if
they could tie those two things together so that I could just, the moment I hit
play, it's playing music as well, because it was just getting me in the zone.
Jon: All right.
Yeah, that makes a lot of sense.
Um, interesting.
Uh, and, um, so tell me more about that process.
You mentioned it's, Tableau's in a browser tab, you're using it.
Um, and so did you say that.
It's always open.
Um,
Megan: and,
Jon: um,
Megan: and that's just generally how I work now.
I sort of have all of my main products that I use that are online and have
been pinned, um, across the top.
Yup.
They got my email
Jon: chalet,
Megan: Oracle calendar.
Jon: Right.
So you open the browser and they're all there waiting.
And, and when you, um, quick, is it starts in toggle, um, is that, is that the only
thing you do or do you enter anything about the work that you're about to do.
Yeah, you have
Megan: to, um, and I have to snap sometimes if it's something I really want
to make sure we like what we were doing, then you could have a little field where
you can put in exactly what you're doing.
I don't do that very often, but it's just, it's something I'm usual.
Um, in case we questioned at some point
Jon: or client.
So the main thing you're tracking is that you're working for a particular
client in that period of time.
Megan: Yeah.
And so one of our clients that we're working on in particular, one of
the projects so that, um, they can see sort of how much time is being
spent on each of their projects.
Jon: Got it.
And.
And then there were, see you've hit start.
Um, and then you're going on to doing the work that you'll be building for.
Um, and just give us a little overview of what the, what sort of
work is that or what you're using.
It's a laptop based work.
I take it.
Um,
Megan: yes.
So then I will drink the crime window and I'll get on with designing in.
Um, or whatever reading or something.
Um, yeah, and then I'll just leave it running until I stop now.
I used to be very good at then remembering to stop it and office
time used to actually, I didn't, I used to do some sort of reminder, uh,
perhaps if I've stopped in perhaps a stepped away from my computer.
I've come back and it would pop up and say, you're still timing.
Um, and that would be really handy.
Uh, total doesn't do that, but I do think that I'm probably not
using toggle as what, as a kid do.
I know when we downloaded it.
Um, but when we first started using it, I felt like they were.
The phase of a lots of development and product releases.
And we're probably haven't kept up with all of the beaches and things.
I think maybe it does have a desktop app, but I haven't downloaded anything.
It's one of those things where you think you should look into it, but
it's just time and it's working fine.
And I'd rather just not think about it.
Jon: Yeah.
And so did he, is it a concern that you're not, um, that, that you might fail to
press the stop button when you finish
working?
Megan: Just, I think sometimes it, you know, to you and says you've been working
on this for 18 hours on your account.
It doesn't actually say that, but it should.
That'd be funny.
I'd like that.
Jon: But,
Megan: you know, you can just see in the timeline that you've gone way off.
And usually I can just, you can just send editor.
I know we'll probably stopped, but X time we don't have to be really
precise with the planning of things.
It's just good just to keep track.
So it doesn't matter too much.
Jon: Yeah.
And, uh, and so what typical periods are you.
Timing, um, uh, or we're looking at a morning and then an
afternoon or smaller chunks or,
Megan: yeah.
Um, warning sometimes I've just got whole day in.
Um, sometimes if I just I'm really jumping around, I might be having a
day where I'm jumping around the dots.
I mean, that case, I just literally.
When I, you know, when I finished on something or say I'm by myself, suddenly
working on something else for another client, I wasn't expecting to, I, as
long as that's the client where it's a billable thing, then I will just quickly
sort of put in that I've been working on it for half an hour and then leave
it running, um, whilst I'm working on it, just because otherwise I've, I find
that where we've got these returns.
Um, agreements I'm at risk of working and not getting paid for it,
because if I don't remember, it's just little thing here and there.
Um, it's good to put it in whilst I think of it.
Jon: Yeah.
See that.
Um, and is there anything special that you do at the end
of the day or the end of a week?
Uh,
Megan: No, but we use it to report if that's what you're imagining.
Um, we, at the end of each month, we will do a report, but that's
only for one of our clients.
I don't think they even look at it, but it was just, uh, not, uh, what's
the word, the nice thing to do for them so they can see, um, the breakdown of.
What we've been doing for them and what's costing them lots and that kind of thing.
Right.
Jon: And that's a client with multiple projects where more than
one of you are working on it.
Right?
Yeah.
Megan: I think it's really interesting on that.
I really liked looking at the reports as well.
It's very interesting.
Yeah.
Jon: What is it about their quotes that makes the next interesting.
Megan: Yeah.
On Toko, uh, just officially.
Um, displayed.
So just a nice play chart.
Um, there's different ways you can have it, um, export it, but it
breaks it down sort of what I've been working on, what Becky's been working
on, how long, different projects Turk, and you can really do not
realize how long something's taken.
And it's very interesting to see overall
Jon: how long it's taken.
Yep.
And what, what are the steps involved in producing one of those, um, uh, reports.
Megan: You want me to look at it?
Or should I tell you these steps?
Or do you want me to see if I can remember?
Jon: Uh, if it's, if it's in front, if it's British VZ
crispy, that's my dog barking.
Sorry about that.
We both got all okay.
Both my dogs are going.
So you were going to have a look at the reports.
Um,
And only if it's a, if it's really easy to tell in front of you, but, um,
Megan: um, so there's sort of like a panel with reports and I just click it.
And, um, then there's some different views that you can choose from sort of
like a summary or detailed on Wiki view.
And you can sort of, there's lots of filters.
You can filter it like project team member, or client, or.
What should I use?
Jon: Yeah.
Megan: Yeah.
What do I usually do a summary report?
Cause that's the one which is more visual.
Um, and then I sort of select the client and then the timeframe, um, it has a
really nice way of showing timeframes.
It has like a calendar.
And so you can do your usual selects two points in a calendar,
or it's got some sort of shortcuts.
So today, yesterday, this week, last week, this month, and they're
really helpful if some of that.
Um, so once I've done that and I've got what timeframe I want, um, there's
a download button and it just lets you download a PDF or a CSV file.
Jon: Yeah.
And then you see send that PDF to your client.
Yeah.
And do you store that yourself?
Um, well, we use it internally for anything or no.
Megan: I mean, you should be in a hurry when I do that bit, I'm
just sending the invoice slightly.
It will probably be in free agent, somewhat.
Well, I've uploaded it, but I don't want to safe in it.
Jon: Right.
So you send it with, sorry, you send it in the same email.
Megan: Yeah.
But I send the invoice by attach there.
Jon: Yeah.
That makes sense.
Um, and so, uh, you feel it's doing everything you want to contract.
Megan: Yeah, I think so.
Um, but it has a whole nother set of features, um, is toggled.
Now I've got a few different products and we'll talk all of, so we use toggled
track, um, but also use topical plan.
Um, do you want me to talk about both.
Jon: I'm interested in what, what maybe if we, first of all, back up a little bit.
So, um, when did you decide to start using toggle and what,
what prompted you to, to do that?
Was it maybe for plan or was it for track it at that point in time?
Megan: It was for track originally.
And it was when we started our business last year.
Jon: Do you remember why you chose toggle?
Um,
Megan: so I was using office time, but Becky, my business partner didn't
have that one and I think I'd paid a one-off payment for it years ago.
And so I wasn't paying for it.
And when we first started our business, we just wanted to
keep overheads really, really.
Um, so I was really conscious of those different subscriptions to things.
Um, I think toggle don't think it was that expensive.
It was obviously one that wasn't hugely expensive, but we will say there was
another one chat, but I don't think any
Jon: of them.
Megan: Oh, sorry.
I missed the step.
So I had it, but when we, when I said to Becky that she should also get
it, it was looking really expensive.
So, and we compared it to toggle and actually took all, looked like it was
now a much, much better product than this sort of old product I was using before.
Um, and it, I have to say.
It's very shallow, but the marketing on taco is really lovely.
And the platform itself is really, really beautifully designed.
And for us we're designers, we really appreciate that.
Um, and it was, I think that was a bit of a deciding factor actually, but also
had to do everything it needed to do.
Jon: Right.
I can definitely see that.
Um, and, uh, do you, do you remember how you found out that toggle
existed at to even, um, find it?
Megan: I need the name and I suspect I knew the name because
I had seen some of their design.
Like on some of the design platforms, I think maybe they had done some really
lovely illustrations and I'm quite up to date like cool 3d rendered illustrations.
So it probably pops up a few times when I was doing some research for other
stuff, but that I didn't tweak that, that I didn't know what they did from that.
It was only then when we started working together, I said to Becky, well, I've
got office time, but you'll need to do.
The dominator.
Do you want to have a quick look and see if there's any other options?
And she, she did a bit of research and came back with a few options and toggle
was the one that jumped out at us.
And then that was when I made the connection that I
sort of heard of them before.
Sorry.
I think in the past toggle had sort of come up and I'd dismissed it because
I don't think it was very good.
Um, but it's improved.
Jon: Right.
Do you remember where you may have seen those examples of have designed
any specific platforms or their forum?
I don't know.
Megan: I expect it would have been on a website called dribble.
Right.
Um, which is, I don't know if you know it, but it's a design website.
Design is upload their designs to it.
Jon: Yeah.
Yeah.
I've come across it a few, few times.
I've certainly seen it over the shoulder of different
designers that I've worked with.
Um, and, and so, uh, as do you go, do you go to dribble often?
Um, yeah, quite,
Megan: quite often.
Not as much as I used to, but yeah, it's a bit of a staple.
Driveline Pinterest design research.
Jon: Yeah.
Okay.
So, so when you're in research or mode or looking for some inspiration,
so could that be daily or weekly?
Um,
Megan: probably weekly.
Jon: Yeah.
Or maybe is something that prompts you to use.
Yeah, it's
Megan: usually triple is usually at the start of the project, um, that we
would spend quite a lot of time looking.
And then maybe a few points during the project I've been driven today,
actually, because I was researching, um, some UI patterns and I wanted
to see what other people are doing.
Jon: Okay.
So you mentioned that you think you probably first noticed or saw
some of the illustrations from.
Um, could there have been anywhere else that you might've seen it?
Um, or come across it?
Megan: I might've seen it.
Jon: I've
seen them.
Megan: No, I would see, I don't think they would come through
on like Facebook or Instagram.
Maybe Instagram design, Instagram account.
Jon: Got it.
Yeah, that makes sense.
Um, and so, um, whereabouts talk about, um, uh, to-go plan.
See you, um, actually just before we get to that, your.
You've learned about a toggle and, um, and you're even reviewing different
time tracking tools with Becky.
Um, it jumped out at you at the point when you're about you're
making the decision together.
I seem to whether or not this was going to be the one that you'd buy.
Was there anything that you're unsure about or that was unclear?
Um, yeah, I think.
Megan: I was aware that I was very tied to office time, but it was a very sort of,
it felt quite antiquated, but it did have beaches that I was really used to using.
And I was worried that chocolate wouldn't have these features.
Um, like the one I told you about earlier, where if you've been away
from your computer for a while, it sort of says to you, um, do
you want to keep recording or not?
But.
I felt like introducing that really old tool to Becky and sort of forcing
her to use it when there seems to be so much nicer products out there, it
Jon: was
Megan: probably not, I don't know.
I didn't feel good about doing that.
So I wanted to look into the other options, especially because of the price.
Um, and then I can assume tremendous, really struggling to find out
from the products we were looking.
Whether or not, they have the features that we wanted.
Um, but I think in the end we did the free trial, which is really helpful, but
it would have been nice if I could have found that information out on the website
first, because when you do a free trial where you sort of invest a certain amounts
of time and filling in your data and that kind of thing, getting it all set up.
A bit quite into it then.
Jon: Definitely.
Yeah.
Maybe.
And do you remember what those speeches were, but you want to know that
Megan: it's probably mostly that sort of use, but ease of use at the timer?
But I also just found that some of the other things we looked at were,
Jon: um,
Megan: sort of probably over-engineered for what we needed.
Jon: Um, so
Megan: that was more sort of like not too many features.
It was probably one of the things rather than.
Um, specifically is so it's just the timing and the reporting
at that time we wanted to
Jon: use.
Megan: And I suppose
Jon: the,
Megan: yeah, actually the, having to two accounts, being able to see two
people's timings, everything in one place.
Um, what's
Jon: really important.
Yeah, definitely see how that makes sense.
And do you remember any of the other products that you were looking at?
Can't remember?
No.
I think, um,
Megan: rescue time is another one which we do actually use, but it's
different and you could probably use it in the same way, but.
Jon: Do you use that as well?
So
Megan: we rescue time because we both work, um, quite flexible hours.
We wanted to in the first year of working together to figure out how much we're both
working, um, and rescue time, basically just monitors, sort of what you're up to
when your computer and how productive.
But we don't, um, use that in a, in a team way.
So we don't make that visible to each other.
Cause I don't really agree with that.
Um, it's more of a personal, um, way of keeping track of how productive
you're being and being able to just report a bit on how many hours I've
worked, that I've been at my computer using programs that are work programs.
Jon: Yeah.
Yeah, sure.
So, uh, so you've rescued time to sort of give you an understanding of the
way that you're using the machine and when you're, when you're working, um,
which you can choose to share with your business partner or, or not.
And just to help understand different working patterns,
but toggles the place where.
You're sharing deliberately with each other, how much you're working
on different, different things.
Yeah.
Megan: We're not sort of, let's do like chunks of time where
we haven't trapped anything and toggle, we don't track everything.
We started off tracking everything.
Um, but because I can't remember why now we just wanted to see how much
we were interested to see how much time we were spending on various
things like marketing and this.
Um, we stopped in after a while.
Cause it's just pretty much,
Jon: yeah, I can definitely see how that would be the case.
And, um, is there, uh, is there anything you would like you wish toggle might do?
Um, uh, that it doesn't do
well,
Megan: um, Product which they haven't fully integrated it, integrated them.
Right.
Um, or if they have, I haven't, we'd already got set up using toggle track in a
particular way and way toggle plan works.
We have to, we changed the way we'd set everything up.
Um, so we haven't managed to like seamlessly integrate the two features
and it would be just nice if these features were all part of the same.
Um, because it's a bit frustrating or not.
Um, and the other thing is
Jon: the
Megan: lack of keep saying, oh, you, what?
You've stepped away from your computer.
Do you still wants the time, this or not?
That's really helpful.
Um, and I don't know if it has, um, I don't know what the technical word is for
it, but when, you know, when you have.
And on your Mac, there's lots of icons at the top, the very top of
the screen, um, and some products and it will control up there so you can
stop and start things from up there.
And it doesn't do that.
And that's a guess because it's not a nature
Jon: that,
Megan: um, it's just running in the browser.
Uh, but that would be nice if it, yeah.
If there was somewhere I could just quickly switch on and off
climbing rather than having to go to the tab in my browser.
Jon: Yeah.
Megan: Epic.
You ever heard this really?
Like going, oh, we've got that, but you're not using it.
Yeah.
We're not using it if it does fit.
Jon: Yeah.
Yeah, that's okay.
It happens.
And so it's like, can you tell me a bit more about, um, this, uh,
frustration, lack of maybe, um, integration between plan and track and
what, what, what is it, why do you want them to integrate, what do they, what
does plan do for you and on top of,
Megan: so you plan, um, we go through phases of using it lots
and they're not using it at all.
And it just depends on the type of work we're doing.
If we've got holidays and complex complicated sort of schedules to
try and organize or work, we've got another freelancer working
with us, that kind of thing.
I'm trying to figure out.
If we've actually got time to do everything we've said, we're going to do.
Um, it's basically just a calendar and you put blocks in for each project and task.
You could go as detailed as you wanted, but with.
Just sort of blocking out, like we're working on that, that day and that day
kind of thing, which I really like to do when I've got the time to do it.
Cause it brings your blood pressure down a bit, seeing it all just planned out.
Um, but the annoying thing is, is so in, in plan you can, on those
blocks, you can hit play on the block.
So I could just live in planet I wanted and just go, um, Yeah.
I plan to work on that and yeah, I'm working on it.
Hit play on it.
Does that make sense?
Yeah.
So sort of tracking that I'm working on the thing I had planned to work on.
Um, but the annoying thing is that the way we've got it set up, isn't connected
to the projects that we've got set up.
Total track.
Jon: Um,
Megan: and I seem to remember when we set it all up, when we started using
plan, I could see that, I don't know.
That was a different way of setting your projects up basically.
Um,
Jon: and
Megan: we, I don't know when we're not using it in there.
In the way that means that we can do that with you today.
And it seems like they obviously just felt like too much work to do or change
the way we're working so that it does was
Jon: that yeah.
I can see how that must feel really disjointed, especially if you want to
sometimes work one way and some time.
Yeah.
Megan: Yeah.
I can see it.
It's a difficult challenge to solve.
Jon: Um,
Megan: it feels like, and I think the thing with toggle is that one of
those products that in recent years have obviously been doing a lot of.
So development, releasing new features and it feels like the products continually
and breathing and evolving, which is nice.
So there's this kind of sense that there probably is the features that I want if I
took the time to dig into it a bit more.
And that's only in the last year that we've been using it.
Jon: All right.
Um, and so a hypothetical question for you, what would you do if
you couldn't use toggle anymore?
For some reason, why
Megan: would I use office time?
Jon: Yeah.
Megan: When I've just looked off his time's website and I can see that they
have now updated, they don't look good.
Old fashioned anymore.
So maybe that would be an option, but it definitely expensive.
Jon: Yeah.
Yeah.
Okay.
Thank you.
So a final question.
Um, is there anything else you feel I should know about Toggl
and your experience with it?
Um, by the way, your business uses it.
I
Megan: would just say that of all the products that I thought bought pending
my browser, but you should be, it's just really nice and clean and happy colors.
It feels really happy.
Yeah.
That makes a big difference to me.
Um, I don't feel like it's a chore.
It feels like fun.
Jon: Yeah, great.
I'm sure the team it's over.
We're very, very pleased to hear that.
Thank you so much for your time, Megan.
Um, it would be great to, uh, hear a little bit more about you and your
business and, um, what, what you do, um, which provide a little bit of context for
the rest of this conversation as well.
Um, so, um, the name of your company,
Megan: It's make good.
We'll make good design and, um, with a small design partnership and we do,
um, design for, we say of any, any business organization that's making
good things happen in the world.
So, um, we focus sort of on everything from brand, um, brand strategy, three.
Um, digital design, so websites and digital products to
apps and that kind of thing.
Um, yeah, I know there's two of us and we also have, um, the UX
designer who works with us as a con on contract and, uh, a couple of
brand strategists and, um, a couple of web developers that we work with.
So we've got like a little quarter.
Um, uh, regular collaborators.
Um, but essentially it's, it's just the two of us who actually, uh,
sort of run the company together.
Jon: Where can we find out more about you?
Megan: Um, it's on our website is make good design.co.uk.
Jon: You on Twitter or Instagram and
Megan: say, we do have a Twitter account, but we've been too busy to use it.
Um, we're on LinkedIn and we're on Instagram as well,
but again, too busy to use it.
LinkedIn is linked.
LinkedIn is a good place to connect, actually.
Yeah.
Um,
Jon: Krista definitely check out.
Um, so make good design.co.uk.
Um, let's see some of the, um, uh, wonderful work that make,
um, and Becky, uh, I've been working on over the last year.
Um, thank you so much again for your time.
Megan has been really good.
Um, uh, I've never dug so deeply into the whole process of using,
using time tracking tools.
So that's been super insightful.
Uh, um, and, uh, so I found a question for you, um, or maybe it's about what
those other, um, apps are that you have pinned in your, in your browser, but
what, what other tools you're using, if you've got three others, um, that
you'd recommend people check out.
Um, so
Megan: then I use free agent for all of our accounting, um, an invoice sending.
And I couldn't really, I feel like I couldn't run a business without that.
I know there's other products that do some of the things, but I really like reagents.
Um, and I use the Google suite.
So Google calendar is really, really useful for me.
And then we do all our design work in Sigma or.
Um, which is an amazing product it's online.
So you can see everybody working online and, but it's super
fast as well, which is amazing.
Then it's very clever and enjoyable to use.
Um, and then the other one we use loads is, is trailing managing projects.
Jon: Alright.
Excellent.
Thank you so much.
I'm also a big free agent fan have been for more of a decade, more than a decade.
I very much recommend people check out all of those tools as well.
Thank you so much for your time, Megan.
This has been really, really insightful.
Thank you.
Megan: Thanks John.
Talk
Jon: to you.
That was hopefully a useful example of a customer interview.
You can find notes from this episode, including links to all the products
mentioned at empathy, deployed.com.
If you know anyone who might benefit from hearing this perspective,
please share the episode.
And word of caution.
This interview is a snapshot of just one person's perspective
in an artificial situation.
You should be very careful about drawing any conclusions about
the guest people like them or the product from this single data point.
Customer interviews are most valuable when you see parallels across, many
of them will be in a specific context.
I'd suggest a minimum of five and ideally 12 to 15.
I recommend the book, deploy empathy by Michelle Hanson for a
practical guide on how to do it.
Well, if you'd like to join me as a guest on a future
episode, please send me a note.
I'm jumped on Twitter.
That's J O T.
My DMS are open.
You can also use the form at empathy, deployed.com or email.
Hello at empathy deployed.
Please include the names and addresses of free software products
you use regularly and or pay for.