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This file was generated by Descript 

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Rob: We are back.

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Welcome back.

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It has been some time since the
two of us have materialized.

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Kevin: The ion storm is passing
and I can hear you again.

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Rob: We can fi We have finally cleared
through that ion storm back into the

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nerdy realm that is Subspace Radio.

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I'm Rob Lloyd, and with me
as always is Kevin Yank.

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How are

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Kevin: Hello.

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Hello.

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I'm very well.

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I've watched a whole series of
Star Trek since we last spoke.

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Rob: have I, we set ourselves
as a task of waiting for Picard,

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but we did not just sit idle.

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We were given the duty to go back
and watch the show that we have

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mentioned quite a lot in this podcast.

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And finally ratcheted into our
memories now and a part of our, the

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ever-growing continuity of Star Trek.

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We have gone back and watched the infamous
Animated Series, series one and two

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from the early seventies of Star Trek.

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Kevin: Yeah, it was the last
piece of Star Trek I hadn't seen,

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so now it's all in my brain.

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Rob: is big, this is a big moment.

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I'm glad to be sharing it.

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Kevin: I was feeling more and more
guilty about having not seen it as

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Lower Decks, and other bits and pieces
of recent Star Trek have referenced

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it fleetingly, and I've gone, oh,
that's something I don't recognize.

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No longer.

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I will get all of the little references.

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Rob: That was the thing.

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Most only while we mostly, while we
were doing Lower Decks you were the

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one informing me going, actually
this is a particular reference to the

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Animated series that I have not seen.

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But

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Kevin: Right.

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Quetzalcoatl in that big lizard
flying creature appears in the

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Lower Decks episode where they're
hallucinating stuff in The Mind's Mines.

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And yeah.

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All the reviews online said That's
Quetzalcoatl from the Animated Series.

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I'm like, that seems like a
weird thing to be in Star Trek.

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And sure enough, it was a
weird thing to be in Star Trek.

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Rob: Yes, it was there.

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Kevin: An Emmy award-winning weird

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Rob: we will say it again.

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Yes.

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Star Trek The Animated Series
is an Emmy award-winning show.

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Most of the, any other Star Trek shows
that have won Emmy's have won it from a

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technical or production point of view.

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Whereas Star Trek The Animated Series
won outright in 1975 Outstanding

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Entertainment Children Series.

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So take that Next Gen,
take that Deep Space Nine.

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Kevin: You really should start
with The Animated Series, I

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think is what we've learned.

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Rob: Yes.

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Yes.

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Even though it's set after?

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Yes.

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So there's a fascinating story to be
told about how this show came about how.

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Kevin: you wanna start with a story or do
you wanna start with like your high level

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Rob: Yeah, I think, I think well
we're dropping our usual format of

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talking about the, an episode and
then breaking into the larger topic.

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We're gonna give our our
first impression, thoughts.

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Then we'll do a little bit of a dive
into how we got to there, and then

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we'll pick our favorite episodes.

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And yes, we will focus on a clunker.

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Kevin: Yeah.

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Rob: So,

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Kevin: Will.

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All right.

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Rob: So Kevin, it has
been a massive buildup.

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We have mentioned it so many times
in our podcast, and, you have been

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a Star Trek fan all your life.

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But now, finally, in the year of our
whatever representation you believe

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in or don't believe in 2023, you
finally watch The Animated Series.

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First impressions?

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Kevin: First impressions There
were stronger episodes to be had

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here than I expected to find.

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But the overall feeling I had watching
this was bemusement, that this was

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made for Saturday morning television.

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Rob: Yeah,

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Kevin: Just that somehow a series of
artists was given a budget to make this.

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For kids to watch with their bowl
of cereal on a Saturday morning.

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It stands out to me as a historical
anomaly the scale of which has not been

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repeated in Star Trek history for sure.

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Rob: It's it is anomaly because but
it's amazing how actually modern it

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is in the way of We are used to now
as nerds and with our IPs and our

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franchises and how they go, that we
have multiple media to consume of that,

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whether it be novels or comic books or
TV shows or animated TV shows or feature

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films or interactive, VR experiences.

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And yes, we have just spent the
last couple of months reviewing

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two animated spinoffs of Star Trek.

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But this is where it all
began in the seventies.

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And for this, it was quite unique.

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It's long before Star Wars hit the
screens and before Star Wars had

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their attempt at spinoffs in animated
form with droids and Ewoks and stuff.

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But now it's commonplace.

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Like one of my favorite incarnations of
Star Wars that hedge back and forth is

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the animated series Rebels, which is set
just before episode one and Rogue One.

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And that's produced for kids'
entertainment, family entertainment,

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but it deals with some heavy issues.

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So going back to watch it now,
after spending so much time within

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this animated spinoff world, it was
quite exciting because you're there

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going, oh my god, they got pretty
much everyone  – apologies to Walter

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Koenig – they got the original cast back.

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So you are hearing William Shatner,
you are hearing Leonard Nimoy.

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You are hearing DeForest
Kelley, you're hearing the

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original cast except for Walter.

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Sorry.

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So sorry about that.

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Kevin: Sorry, Walter.

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Rob: So to see it's quite now a modern
thing, but then it was so unique.

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It

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Kevin: Yeah, but I hear what you're
saying about comparing it to the Star

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Wars, that there are surprisingly
modern stories or topics being covered

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because that's true here as well.

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It's, it is clear in every respect
from technical to to storytelling.

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They were up against the constraints
of Saturday morning cartoons.

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You could tell the vision was large and
they got as much of it they could do in

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the time and money they had to put into

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Rob: I have found, a lot of the
writers were excited to come back

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on board who were part of The
Original Series going, oh, we are not

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restricted by, by real sets and makeup.

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We can come up with anything.

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And then it goes, yes, you can come
up with any creature you want, but

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still it's done on a Filmation budget.

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Kevin: Yes.

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And it has to not not
offend the parents too much.

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Rob: Yeah, it was very to read.

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They got back on board DC Fontana.

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Incredible.

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Yeah.

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This legendary writer of
television and Star Trek.

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And they had her on board as an
executive producer and script editor.

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And her main point was, let, because
it's for more family more kids

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geared, let's actually make it family.

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So let's take out any of that, William
Shana's sex appeal or or oily oily, George

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Kevin: stuff slipped through.

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Rob: stump did stuff,

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Kevin: there were very conspicuous
things slipping through that was

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like, that stands out given that
everything else is here is for kids.

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But that one lady is borderline harassing.

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Captain

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Rob: I I'm glad you brought that up.

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And I'll be talking about
that a bit further on.

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And it's not in my good episodes.

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Kevin: Okay.

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Very good.

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Um, Look the other impression
that I really got here was

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the handmade craftsmanship.

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Of what ends up on screen here.

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Like you can see the layers of film as
a cell moves over a painted background.

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And unfortunately that little hair
that was stuck to the cell moves with

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Rob: That's my favorite.

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Yeah.

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Seeing the grit the profile
Enterprise goes across, he goes,

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oh, that grit's going with it,

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Kevin: Yeah.

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and there were a grand total of
four shots of the Enterprise here,

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more or less except for the very
occasional episode specific artwork.

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And similarly, there were four musics cues
that were used in every single episode.

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Rob: not the actual original Star Trek

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Kevin: I know it took me so long to warm
up to it because it felt like a bizarro

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universe version of Star Trek cuz of the

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Rob: That theme was stuck in my
head for weeks, and as soon as I

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finished watching it, it's gone.

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But I kept on ball it like every
piece of that music, I think there,

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there's only three pieces of music
they created and they just repeated

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that for the entire number of episodes.

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But yeah, there was like, especially
after our talk about the last two animated

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series, which had so many beautiful space
vistas and planet shots and all this type

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of stuff to go back to that's the profile
image going that way across the screen

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and now it's going back the other way.

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And that one rather clunky,
but I kind of liked it.

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The shot of the ship kind of
swooping in on an angle and going.

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Kevin: we go over the

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Rob: Yeah.

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So you, so it had to
involve perspective and,

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Kevin: and I'm pretty sure I don't know
if there's any way to know this for sure

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all these years later, but it looks to
me like that was rotoscoped directly

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from a shot from The Original Series.

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There is a, in the first few episodes of
The Original Series, there's a few places

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where we do swoop over the bridge like
that, and it looks to me like they frame

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by frame, traced it for the animated

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Rob: pretty much it looked like
that and that type of stuff.

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I like when they go outside of, cuz TV
animation in the sixties, seventies and

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eighties was how cheap can we do it?

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And so, especially, especially
Filmation who were, this is the

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company long before their success
with He-man and Ghostbusters.

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Not that Ghostbusters, the
Ghostbusters, the other one.

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Let's go Ghostbusters.

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Anyway and She-ra and
all that type of stuff.

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So I, I that.

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That rotoscoping, that little bit of a
Ralph Bakshi style animation of taking

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footage and animating it into real.

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I like that kind of
guerilla style animation.

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But I'm a big fan of the dark ages of
Disney as well, where they did a lot

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of facsimile animation and stuff, which
is looked down upon by animators, but

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it's sort a rough and ready way of
doing things, which I but I, that's

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my sort of like independent theater.

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Kevin: Yeah.

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I liked it too.

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I think the sh the ship stuff
has aged better than some

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of the character animation.

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There's definite I think I've
mentioned it before, there are

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running sequences where it's a solid
minute of tiny black stick figures

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moving across a static background to

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Rob: yes.

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Kevin: And it's meant to be
gripping, but it is quite fast.

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Rob: And, And the repetition.

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And the repetition of the extreme
closeup on one side of the screen and

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the same shot of Spock looking into
a monitor and slightly looking up.

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And if I don't see that that cat woman
with her whispery, creepy, if I don't see

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M'Ress ever again, it will be too soon.

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So just go.

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Kevin: She is the progenitor of
Catian doctor on Lower Decks.

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Rob: But, there's just

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Kevin: Dr.

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T'Ana, way more fun than

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Rob: lot more, yeah, a lot more sweary.

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She and T'Ana blinks a lot more as
opposed to this one who just stares

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with her yellow eyes and whispers.

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Kevin: Speaking of the actors, it is
amazing that we got most of the cast back.

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Rob: do you, how would
you feel being Walter?

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Kevin: I think he would've been
on the list, but he wasn't in the

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first season of The Original Series.

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And so if someone had to go,
I guess Walter had to go.

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Uh, He said I was very upset at the
way I found out I wasn't part of the

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show at a convention everybody thought
someone else had told me, apparently.

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Dorothy thought Gene had.

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Gene thought Dorothy had.

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To save money, Filmation wanted
Majel to do Uhura's voice and also

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Jimmy to do Sulu's voice since in
cartoons at the time you got paid one

00:11:54.243 --> 00:11:55.893
check to do two character's voices.

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To Leonard's credit, he said he
would not do the series unless they

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hired George and Nichelle since they
had been there from the beginning.

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Rob: Yeah, it, see, it's so
weird that, it's been forgotten.

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Then it was ridiculed, then it's
been found by us, and I give it a

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lot of love, but, and you want it
to, you want it to be what kind of

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animation stuff is now, but it's not.

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It's at that time when animation was
looked down upon, Saturday morning

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cartoons were looked down upon.

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It was just a paycheck.

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People missed out.

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They wanted to keep out, the
African American woman and

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the the Asian American actor.

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Kevin: Yeah.

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Funny that

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Rob: Yeah.

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And the one of the things I read, Nimoy
brought that up and Filmation went, oh

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no, actually we are very much into showing
representation and stuff like that.

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So of course, oh we, that was just not
meant to be a blah, blah, blah, blah.

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And there going yeah.

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It's a shame that you

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Kevin: That's the thing about bias.

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It's usually unconscious.

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Rob: Exactly.

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So

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Yeah, apparently Filmation said they only
had enough money for that amount of cast.

00:12:55.217 --> 00:12:55.637
And also

00:12:55.718 --> 00:13:00.098
Kevin: And you can tell because that
cast is doing every other voice as well,

00:13:00.122 --> 00:13:04.035
Rob: was, yeah, I was gonna say you
can hear James doing multiple voices.

00:13:04.148 --> 00:13:06.398
Nichelle does multiple characters.

00:13:06.544 --> 00:13:07.434
Of course Mrs.

00:13:07.434 --> 00:13:09.084
Roddenberry had to be in the cast as well.

00:13:09.084 --> 00:13:11.005
So we had Nurse Chapel there.

00:13:11.127 --> 00:13:15.223
Kevin: Jimmy Doohan in an interview
I have from The 50 Year Mission, the

00:13:15.223 --> 00:13:19.634
oral history of Star Trek, he talks
about how the fact that if you did

00:13:19.634 --> 00:13:23.174
three characters, they only had to
pay you once, but if you did a fourth

00:13:23.174 --> 00:13:25.214
character, they had to pay you twice.

00:13:25.214 --> 00:13:28.184
So he was always trying to
get that fourth character.

00:13:28.313 --> 00:13:29.783
Rob: Oh my gosh.

00:13:30.943 --> 00:13:33.778
Oh the economics of
animation in the seventies.

00:13:33.783 --> 00:13:36.942
But yeah, I read like they'd
never recorded in the same studio.

00:13:36.972 --> 00:13:40.025
I don't think they even recorded
in the same cities like.

00:13:40.031 --> 00:13:43.575
Kevin: Some of the interviews talk
about later in the run Leonard Nimoy

00:13:43.660 --> 00:13:47.980
would just drop by a recording studio
in whatever city he happened to be in,

00:13:47.980 --> 00:13:52.810
and read his lines to the microphone,
put his hat on and walk to his car.

00:13:52.810 --> 00:13:54.970
And that was his
experience of The Animated

00:13:55.248 --> 00:13:57.858
Rob: It's very, he's very much
like an episode of The Simpsons

00:13:57.858 --> 00:13:59.688
where Krusty just walks in record.

00:13:59.718 --> 00:13:59.928
Yeah.

00:13:59.928 --> 00:14:02.988
Just speaks all his lines for his
thing and then walks off and they

00:14:02.988 --> 00:14:04.278
haven't even put the reel in yet.

00:14:04.278 --> 00:14:09.955
Kevin: For the fans, for the writers,
it must have felt like a return to the

00:14:09.955 --> 00:14:11.755
thing that they thought they had lost.

00:14:11.815 --> 00:14:16.445
For the actors, I feel like it, in many
respects, must have felt like a paycheck.

00:14:16.456 --> 00:14:17.446
Just another paycheck.

00:14:17.454 --> 00:14:18.504
Rob: Yeah, it does.

00:14:18.509 --> 00:14:19.494
It does seem to

00:14:19.996 --> 00:14:21.976
Kevin: Because it doesn't
seem like they got together.

00:14:21.976 --> 00:14:26.189
It doesn't seem like any of them
were particularly this, the sense

00:14:26.189 --> 00:14:29.429
I get is that they were talked
into it and they were like, really?

00:14:29.519 --> 00:14:31.019
Saturday morning cartoons?

00:14:31.019 --> 00:14:32.579
Is this the bottom of the barrel?

00:14:32.579 --> 00:14:36.075
And the creators were
like, no stay with us.

00:14:36.135 --> 00:14:36.795
Trust us.

00:14:36.795 --> 00:14:41.835
We are doing real Star Trek here with
real stories, stuff that matters.

00:14:41.925 --> 00:14:43.365
You're going to be proud of the work.

00:14:43.365 --> 00:14:45.345
And they were said, okay,
we'll take your word for it.

00:14:45.825 --> 00:14:49.546
And yet the experience was
nevertheless just showing up and

00:14:49.546 --> 00:14:50.656
reading your lines in the booth.

00:14:50.874 --> 00:14:54.094
Rob: Yeah, it's an interesting thing
because it's been the punchline of

00:14:54.519 --> 00:14:58.470
jokes for so long, and I'm guilty of
that, of making fun of The Animated

00:14:58.470 --> 00:15:00.120
Series, but never actually seeing it.

00:15:00.450 --> 00:15:03.986
But now I've got a little bit more
respect for it, that they were trying

00:15:03.991 --> 00:15:08.783
to be so serious that the scripts,
especially that first season, I remember

00:15:08.783 --> 00:15:13.177
we talked a little bit that there's a
little bit of a shift in, in season two

00:15:13.177 --> 00:15:16.411
to a bit more jovial, a bit more jokey.

00:15:16.598 --> 00:15:20.228
Kevin: I found it was, with
exceptions, it was really hitting

00:15:20.228 --> 00:15:22.508
its stride by that second season.

00:15:22.538 --> 00:15:28.358
There's a lot more bumps and weird
tone moments in the start of this

00:15:28.358 --> 00:15:31.868
series than towards the end where it
felt like they had found the formula.

00:15:31.892 --> 00:15:34.382
Rob: Well, especially like
that first episode, I'm going.

00:15:35.657 --> 00:15:38.897
For me, that first episode was
really hard to get through and just,

00:15:38.897 --> 00:15:41.406
they're going, it was very dull.

00:15:41.406 --> 00:15:45.027
But then the second episode is
the yes Yesteryear, which is they

00:15:45.027 --> 00:15:46.740
go that's what you wanna see.

00:15:46.745 --> 00:15:49.931
We want the big vistas of
what Vulcan looks like.

00:15:49.982 --> 00:15:52.202
Kevin: Tell some epic stories you
wouldn't have been able to tell

00:15:52.542 --> 00:15:54.161
Rob: Exactly and a lot of sequel stuff.

00:15:54.161 --> 00:15:55.431
So return to

00:15:55.612 --> 00:15:57.692
Kevin: Again, playing
to the kids, apparently.

00:15:58.361 --> 00:15:58.901
Rob: Because Yeah.

00:15:58.931 --> 00:16:00.371
You know who kids wanna see again?

00:16:00.441 --> 00:16:00.921
Mudd.

00:16:01.031 --> 00:16:01.151
They

00:16:01.322 --> 00:16:01.862
Kevin: That's right.

00:16:04.122 --> 00:16:05.042
And Cyrano Jones.

00:16:05.042 --> 00:16:06.112
Everydody's

00:16:06.199 --> 00:16:09.559
Rob: The kids have been crying
themselves to sleep for years

00:16:09.564 --> 00:16:10.879
since the cancellation go.

00:16:10.999 --> 00:16:13.009
Whatever happened to Cyrano Jones, Daddy?

00:16:13.181 --> 00:16:16.660
Kevin: Walter Koenig was not
cast in the series, but he was

00:16:16.660 --> 00:16:18.427
thrown the bone of a script.

00:16:18.473 --> 00:16:23.813
The Infinite Vulcan, and you can't see
him, listeners, but Rob is making a face.

00:16:24.242 --> 00:16:27.432
Rob: Yeah, I, it almost
made my stinker list.

00:16:27.432 --> 00:16:27.912
It was.

00:16:28.448 --> 00:16:31.598
Kevin: Walter didn't think much
more of it is what I'm reading here.

00:16:31.661 --> 00:16:35.381
This was the one script I wrote for the
show, and it was incredibly frustrating.

00:16:35.621 --> 00:16:39.071
Gene decided early on, this is
animation so we can do anything we

00:16:39.071 --> 00:16:40.871
want, so let's have talking plants.

00:16:41.141 --> 00:16:44.411
And I put in the talking plants
and did 10 drafts of the script.

00:16:44.441 --> 00:16:48.011
And at the time, I didn't know what
writers were going through on Star Trek.

00:16:48.221 --> 00:16:50.471
I stuck with it and we
finally got it done.

00:16:50.561 --> 00:16:54.311
They did in fact offer me another
script and I said, no, I passed.

00:16:54.581 --> 00:16:57.971
I couldn't go along with all the
arbitrary decisions that didn't make

00:16:57.971 --> 00:17:01.511
the script any better, not that it
was extraordinary to begin with.

00:17:01.541 --> 00:17:06.341
So to an extent, it was an interesting
learning experience, but it was painful.

00:17:06.641 --> 00:17:09.651
I was also still upset about
not being a part of the series.

00:17:09.719 --> 00:17:10.679
Rob: Of course.

00:17:11.099 --> 00:17:15.940
So it's heartbreaking to hear how it all
turned out that it, of was, just thrown

00:17:15.940 --> 00:17:19.690
together and they just had to work with
the money they had, and they had the,

00:17:19.720 --> 00:17:25.270
like you said, big plans, big sweeping,
epic ideas in their head of we can go

00:17:25.270 --> 00:17:29.751
anywhere, we can have any creature,
any location that we're not limited by

00:17:29.832 --> 00:17:30.852
Kevin: did get that here.

00:17:31.002 --> 00:17:32.022
There is a lot of that

00:17:32.271 --> 00:17:37.434
Rob: They, they do try to have
so many non humanoid creatures to

00:17:37.434 --> 00:17:40.104
have two non-human crew members.

00:17:40.193 --> 00:17:41.706
Kevin: Not all of it successful.

00:17:41.718 --> 00:17:44.658
There are some things that, it's
true you couldn't do them before

00:17:44.658 --> 00:17:48.258
and you can do them now, but should
you do them is a separate question.

00:17:49.029 --> 00:17:52.277
Rob: So I'm very interested to
hear because you're so in tune with

00:17:52.277 --> 00:17:56.957
The Original Series, how you found
those nods, those sequel follow

00:17:56.957 --> 00:18:01.247
ups and those references that have
now carried on because there are

00:18:01.487 --> 00:18:02.897
some things that were mentioned.

00:18:02.957 --> 00:18:05.897
That's the type of stuff I love, things
that were mentioned in The Animated

00:18:05.897 --> 00:18:07.547
Series that have now become canon.

00:18:08.033 --> 00:18:08.633
Kevin: Yeah.

00:18:08.712 --> 00:18:11.892
Equal part hits and misses
is what I would say.

00:18:11.952 --> 00:18:16.092
There are some things that it was
like, wow, a sequel to Shore Leave.

00:18:16.392 --> 00:18:20.952
I did not, I would never have asked for
this, but it feels like Christmas morning.

00:18:22.662 --> 00:18:27.500
And then there were other things
that felt rather thin and didn't

00:18:27.920 --> 00:18:32.559
add anything that wasn't already
present in the previous series.

00:18:32.829 --> 00:18:38.999
I thought the Tribbles episode had some
yucks for the kids, but did it add a

00:18:39.004 --> 00:18:42.439
lot to what triples give to our lives?

00:18:42.439 --> 00:18:42.979
I don't think so.

00:18:43.039 --> 00:18:45.649
I think I would rather go back
and watch the original episode

00:18:45.658 --> 00:18:50.269
Rob: We did found out we had, a massive
like Voltron tribble so well, yeah.

00:18:50.274 --> 00:18:52.989
So their big mind is we can
have whatever budget we want.

00:18:53.109 --> 00:18:54.609
Let's make tribbles bigger!

00:18:55.044 --> 00:18:59.848
Kevin: And speaking of Harry Mud, like
the second episode of The Original

00:18:59.848 --> 00:19:05.101
Series, was rapey enough and they
thought, you know what we really need?

00:19:05.251 --> 00:19:10.427
You know what we really need to return
to is Harry Mudd and his date rape drugs.

00:19:10.766 --> 00:19:11.126
Rob: Yeah.

00:19:11.126 --> 00:19:14.095
Look it's it is a shame that
when you go back to watch

00:19:14.095 --> 00:19:15.295
this go, oh no, that's right.

00:19:15.325 --> 00:19:16.975
This is in the height of the seventies.

00:19:16.975 --> 00:19:22.262
This is the height of, patriarchal
privilege and scenes of Nurse Chapel.

00:19:22.465 --> 00:19:23.125
Kevin: You don't get it.

00:19:23.138 --> 00:19:28.495
It's better because it's Nurse
Chapel who is date raping

00:19:29.688 --> 00:19:30.108
Rob: Exact.

00:19:30.138 --> 00:19:31.248
See, that's better.

00:19:31.248 --> 00:19:31.668
And, but

00:19:31.885 --> 00:19:32.875
Kevin: It's empowering.

00:19:32.898 --> 00:19:35.298
Rob: But she's so easily
manipulated by the guy.

00:19:35.310 --> 00:19:35.420
No.

00:19:35.420 --> 00:19:36.530
She's not manipulated.

00:19:36.710 --> 00:19:39.770
She's taking the power like scenes
where she's like drowning when

00:19:39.770 --> 00:19:43.130
they're miniatures and she, the
only way she, the only way that she

00:19:43.130 --> 00:19:45.050
can get out is being saved by Kirk.

00:19:45.080 --> 00:19:49.190
And you're going, oh, yeah.

00:19:49.718 --> 00:19:52.958
Kevin: Just looking at my other notes
about like the origin of this series.

00:19:53.018 --> 00:19:59.468
My, my closest reading of what
I could find is that, this came

00:19:59.468 --> 00:20:02.999
about really part of a ca of the
campaign to bring back Star Trek.

00:20:02.999 --> 00:20:08.129
Ever since it was canceled in the third
season and the fans wanted more, gene

00:20:08.129 --> 00:20:10.529
was looking for how could it return?

00:20:10.799 --> 00:20:13.289
Could it return as another series?

00:20:13.289 --> 00:20:14.669
Could it return as a film?

00:20:14.849 --> 00:20:18.209
None of that was happening, but
there was just this little crack

00:20:18.209 --> 00:20:24.599
that opened up in NBC's armor and
someone said, we need a strong entry

00:20:24.604 --> 00:20:27.479
for NBC's Saturday morning lineup.

00:20:28.159 --> 00:20:33.359
And I think probably when it was
first suggested, let's bring Star

00:20:33.359 --> 00:20:35.429
Trek to Saturday morning cartoons.

00:20:35.549 --> 00:20:39.389
It's doing surprisingly well in
the young demographics in reruns.

00:20:39.539 --> 00:20:42.899
I bet the kids would love a
Star Trek show made for them.

00:20:43.199 --> 00:20:44.969
That probably made sense.

00:20:46.199 --> 00:20:50.849
Somewhere between that idea
and what ended up on screen.

00:20:51.359 --> 00:20:57.359
There were some negotiations and Gene
Roddenberry managed to pull in just

00:20:57.359 --> 00:21:03.149
the right amount of favors and he got
full creative control, which was really

00:21:03.149 --> 00:21:05.429
unusual for cartoons at the time.

00:21:05.759 --> 00:21:12.239
It was, my understanding is unusual for
Roddenberry at the time, who had burned

00:21:12.239 --> 00:21:18.423
some bridges and the relationship with the
studios was strained already, but somehow,

00:21:18.423 --> 00:21:22.743
some way he managed to get a commitment
of full creative control on this.

00:21:22.743 --> 00:21:24.153
And he said, great, we've done it.

00:21:24.573 --> 00:21:28.713
Now we're gonna forget that we're
making a Saturday morning cartoon.

00:21:28.923 --> 00:21:30.663
We are making Star Trek again.

00:21:30.693 --> 00:21:31.953
That is what we are here to

00:21:32.092 --> 00:21:33.312
Rob: unofficial season four.

00:21:33.873 --> 00:21:36.873
Kevin: Yeah, and I.

00:21:37.743 --> 00:21:42.997
We will never have the ratings numbers
or the memos from the studio to prove it.

00:21:43.027 --> 00:21:48.397
But my guess is what happens is this
thing went out to Saturday morning and

00:21:48.397 --> 00:21:53.347
died because it wasn't made for the
audience that was watching at that time.

00:21:53.377 --> 00:21:59.947
So the world did get a secret fourth
season of Star Trek, but a as, as we

00:21:59.947 --> 00:22:05.047
learned in our own experience, almost
no one watched it, not even us fans

00:22:05.647 --> 00:22:08.453
and and so much the poorer for it.

00:22:08.986 --> 00:22:09.586
Rob: Exactly.

00:22:09.591 --> 00:22:09.886
Yeah.

00:22:09.886 --> 00:22:15.233
And it had to be, it wasn't, if it wasn't
for Star Wars then this new lifeblood

00:22:15.254 --> 00:22:16.787
of the show wouldn't have happened.

00:22:16.787 --> 00:22:19.116
And it's the constant thing
about Roddenberry as well.

00:22:19.116 --> 00:22:25.446
So like his, that balance of his
belief in the show and his fight for

00:22:25.446 --> 00:22:27.186
it, but also the bridges he burns.

00:22:27.186 --> 00:22:31.894
And so it got to the point where, he had
a lot of control in The Motion Picture.

00:22:32.434 --> 00:22:36.364
And because it didn't do that well, then
they went complete other angle and he was

00:22:36.364 --> 00:22:41.935
pretty much shut out like unceremoniously
with Star Trek two and became, the

00:22:42.355 --> 00:22:43.645
greatest Star Trek movie of all time.

00:22:43.735 --> 00:22:48.565
But it went so far away from
whatever Roddenberry was so,

00:22:49.015 --> 00:22:52.535
had his vice-like, grip on this
is what Star Trek needs to be.

00:22:52.564 --> 00:22:57.266
And it, yeah it's fascinating to see that
the animated series is just a continuation

00:22:57.271 --> 00:22:59.876
of that cycle that he gets power.

00:22:59.994 --> 00:23:03.894
He, he burns bridges, he builds up that
power again, he burns more bridges.

00:23:03.899 --> 00:23:08.826
It's a fascinating, little glimpse
into the how that man worked

00:23:08.826 --> 00:23:10.146
within the creative industry.

00:23:10.180 --> 00:23:13.990
Kevin: The second season is only
six episodes, which to our modern

00:23:13.990 --> 00:23:15.851
eye looks like oh, that's bad.

00:23:15.881 --> 00:23:20.624
Like, they got, They got a big
first season and the network pulled

00:23:20.624 --> 00:23:22.724
the plug after just six episodes.

00:23:22.784 --> 00:23:25.124
They didn't even get halfway
through the second season.

00:23:25.484 --> 00:23:31.584
What my research tells me is that
after the initial large-ish order,

00:23:31.884 --> 00:23:35.643
animated series were made and
approved in batches of six episodes.

00:23:35.643 --> 00:23:38.493
So it is normal for season
two to be six episodes.

00:23:38.493 --> 00:23:42.723
That is a full second season
as it was made at the time.

00:23:42.763 --> 00:23:45.303
Nevertheless, they did
not get renewed for.

00:23:45.821 --> 00:23:46.151
Rob: Right.

00:23:46.241 --> 00:23:47.621
Does it diminish after that?

00:23:47.626 --> 00:23:50.081
So then season three
is only three episodes,

00:23:50.103 --> 00:23:52.263
Kevin: Would just do
six, six more at a time.

00:23:52.323 --> 00:23:56.792
And it had to do with lead times
and scheduling and stuff like that.

00:23:56.859 --> 00:24:01.239
Dorothy Fontana and Gene Roddenberry,
the two main creative forces of the first

00:24:01.239 --> 00:24:03.429
season stepped away in the second season.

00:24:03.459 --> 00:24:08.349
And so a lot of the interviews from
Dorothy say, I don't really know.

00:24:08.349 --> 00:24:09.939
I can't speak for the second season.

00:24:10.149 --> 00:24:11.889
It might be bad, it might be great.

00:24:11.979 --> 00:24:13.359
I had no creative input.

00:24:13.668 --> 00:24:15.177
Rob: And different director as well.

00:24:15.177 --> 00:24:18.387
They had like how Hal Sutherland
for the first season and then

00:24:18.436 --> 00:24:20.748
Bill Reed for the next six.

00:24:21.414 --> 00:24:24.423
Kevin: And she, she says, all I
know is that they did a bunch of the

00:24:24.423 --> 00:24:26.733
scripts we rejected in season two.

00:24:26.845 --> 00:24:28.871
But I, I think it turned
out surprisingly well.

00:24:29.171 --> 00:24:34.541
The one kind of creative force that seemed
present throughout is David Gerrold, who

00:24:34.821 --> 00:24:39.111
fans will know as the author, the writer
of the original Trouble with Tribbles.

00:24:39.131 --> 00:24:43.279
He came back and wrote two episodes
of this series, but but he was

00:24:43.339 --> 00:24:46.013
there from beginning to end and
was there for the whole ride.

00:24:46.082 --> 00:24:46.562
Rob: Yes.

00:24:46.592 --> 00:24:51.073
And I like that type of, tho those
connections of of the writers who

00:24:51.073 --> 00:24:53.953
were part of The Animated Series
staying on and they was very much

00:24:53.953 --> 00:24:57.763
top heavy in that first season with
so many of those classic writers

00:24:57.763 --> 00:24:59.481
coming back and Yeah, it's a shame.

00:24:59.481 --> 00:25:00.891
Not all of them stuck around.

00:25:01.347 --> 00:25:03.767
Kevin: My only other thought is the.

00:25:04.687 --> 00:25:09.067
Getting the lingo of Star Trek, like
what does the language sound like?

00:25:09.067 --> 00:25:10.697
What does the terminology sound like?

00:25:10.724 --> 00:25:13.514
It took them a while to
get back into the groove.

00:25:13.574 --> 00:25:18.362
Those first few episodes are
really heavy with unusually

00:25:18.362 --> 00:25:20.492
specific scientific language.

00:25:20.702 --> 00:25:24.032
Like they didn't quite have
the technobabble pinned down.

00:25:24.032 --> 00:25:25.892
It was a little too techno.

00:25:26.042 --> 00:25:27.302
A little too sciencey.

00:25:27.506 --> 00:25:28.496
Rob: Very dense.

00:25:28.496 --> 00:25:32.060
There are some moments where they're
using like really hardcore science terms.

00:25:32.060 --> 00:25:32.500
I'm going,

00:25:33.526 --> 00:25:37.350
Kevin: It felt like someone had they,
it was their personal mission to make

00:25:37.350 --> 00:25:39.630
Star Trek more scientifically accurate.

00:25:39.630 --> 00:25:42.360
And the animated series was
where they were let loose.

00:25:42.870 --> 00:25:47.224
And it was a it just made it awkward
is the word that comes to mind, but

00:25:47.224 --> 00:25:51.034
it was, yeah, it took, you, took me
out of it that these characters were

00:25:51.034 --> 00:25:55.474
saying things that did not sound like
things they, those characters would say.

00:25:55.474 --> 00:25:59.085
Rob: No, and it did sound like I
have a sci scientific prognosis.

00:25:59.145 --> 00:26:01.805
Oh, and I have a scientific
read to add to that.

00:26:01.875 --> 00:26:04.215
I go, oh, scientifically
it could be this as well.

00:26:04.215 --> 00:26:05.325
I'm going, Woohoo.

00:26:05.565 --> 00:26:05.955
Come on.

00:26:06.561 --> 00:26:08.301
Kevin: It's not the science
that makes Star Trek

00:26:08.565 --> 00:26:09.655
Rob: Yeah, exactly.

00:26:09.705 --> 00:26:11.326
So let's go into it.

00:26:11.326 --> 00:26:13.818
Let's let's do an episode we like each.

00:26:13.835 --> 00:26:16.467
Kevin: I mean, there's
there's so few episodes here.

00:26:16.467 --> 00:26:17.502
There's 22 of them.

00:26:17.847 --> 00:26:22.844
I feel like we could just one by one,
count them down and if we come to one

00:26:22.844 --> 00:26:26.204
that is one of our favorites or one
of our we could talk about it at that

00:26:26.483 --> 00:26:26.993
Rob: Let's do it.

00:26:26.993 --> 00:26:29.276
Kevin: Alright Number one,
Beyond The Farthest Star,

00:26:29.336 --> 00:26:30.836
you groaned about it earlier.

00:26:30.905 --> 00:26:33.135
Rob: It was so dull.

00:26:33.135 --> 00:26:34.170
I'm there going, whoa.

00:26:34.175 --> 00:26:35.220
This is where we're starting.

00:26:35.243 --> 00:26:39.355
A ship that's been dead for however
long and just looking at it going,

00:26:39.360 --> 00:26:40.585
oh, what happened with this?

00:26:40.585 --> 00:26:41.335
And there and,

00:26:41.501 --> 00:26:45.221
Kevin: I wrote Pace is shockingly
slow for a 30 minute cartoon.

00:26:46.075 --> 00:26:47.035
Rob: Yeah, they're going.

00:26:47.035 --> 00:26:47.545
Are we still?

00:26:47.605 --> 00:26:48.115
Oh wow.

00:26:48.115 --> 00:26:49.855
We are only five minutes in.

00:26:50.321 --> 00:26:53.291
Kevin: It felt like they couldn't quite
believe they were making Star Trek and

00:26:53.291 --> 00:26:55.001
they forgot to bring a story to the

00:26:55.225 --> 00:26:56.365
Rob: Yes, very much

00:26:56.446 --> 00:26:56.836
Kevin: Alright.

00:26:56.908 --> 00:26:58.515
But not a high or a low for either of

00:26:58.889 --> 00:26:59.159
Rob: No

00:26:59.214 --> 00:27:00.779
Kevin: Yesteryear number two.

00:27:00.793 --> 00:27:01.633
Rob: Really good one.

00:27:01.993 --> 00:27:02.533
Really.

00:27:02.533 --> 00:27:02.923
Yeah.

00:27:03.203 --> 00:27:06.561
A nice little reference to the City
on the Edge of Forever and, going

00:27:06.561 --> 00:27:11.053
back into Spock's past and that great,
it's a great thing, especially with

00:27:11.053 --> 00:27:14.303
uh, Next Generation and stuff like
that, where they talk about, ugh, oh,

00:27:14.308 --> 00:27:18.402
Kirk, and he's traveling back in time
and they're like blase about it, like

00:27:18.508 --> 00:27:19.348
Kevin: Yeah, let's just do it.

00:27:19.962 --> 00:27:21.762
Rob: And he goes back
and he meets himself.

00:27:21.767 --> 00:27:23.052
So there's no paradox there.

00:27:23.057 --> 00:27:24.522
He is just an uncle,

00:27:25.768 --> 00:27:26.356
Kevin: That's right.

00:27:26.356 --> 00:27:27.487
I remember myself.

00:27:27.487 --> 00:27:27.877
Yeah.

00:27:27.877 --> 00:27:28.717
It's amazing.

00:27:28.803 --> 00:27:33.583
Rob: His pet is incredible
and they killed the pet!

00:27:33.679 --> 00:27:39.021
Kevin: Yeah, know, but that is a
good thing in the right context.

00:27:39.051 --> 00:27:43.043
Treated with the right delicateness for
kids to watch on a Saturday morning.

00:27:43.043 --> 00:27:46.193
Like There's, that is a life experience
that kids are gonna have to face.

00:27:46.193 --> 00:27:50.423
And having seen dispassionate
Spock deal with it, maturely is a,

00:27:50.423 --> 00:27:52.060
it's a good learning opportunity.

00:27:52.115 --> 00:27:52.565
Rob: And did they

00:27:52.656 --> 00:27:54.006
Kevin: I don't know if you'd call it fun.

00:27:54.155 --> 00:27:57.314
Rob: No, it was very much leaning
into, this is an episode that

00:27:57.314 --> 00:28:00.233
could have been on The Original
Series if it weren't animated.

00:28:00.233 --> 00:28:04.748
But yeah the detail of the,
like the almost like tiger type

00:28:04.898 --> 00:28:06.968
pet was fascinating to see.

00:28:06.968 --> 00:28:09.488
Did they actually get Mark
Lenard back to do the voice of

00:28:09.669 --> 00:28:11.259
Kevin: did Mark Lenard!

00:28:11.376 --> 00:28:16.366
I did not know to expect another Star
Trek performance from Mark Lenard

00:28:16.421 --> 00:28:18.366
posthumously to enter my world.

00:28:18.366 --> 00:28:19.122
And wow.

00:28:19.122 --> 00:28:19.512
That was a

00:28:19.661 --> 00:28:20.441
Rob: he was great.

00:28:20.441 --> 00:28:21.941
He's a wonderful, wonderful.

00:28:22.601 --> 00:28:25.662
Kevin: Yesteryear is frequently
called out as the best episode

00:28:25.662 --> 00:28:26.978
of The Animated Series.

00:28:26.983 --> 00:28:30.635
It was the one I was my hopes
were up for, and I don't know if

00:28:30.635 --> 00:28:34.811
it's because my hopes were high
that I found it a little lacking.

00:28:34.823 --> 00:28:38.273
It still had some of those shaky
legs of the early episodes of this

00:28:38.273 --> 00:28:39.803
series that I was talking about.

00:28:39.922 --> 00:28:42.772
Rob: For me, it came across as,
oh, as I was watching it, I was

00:28:42.772 --> 00:28:46.588
there going, this would be one that
the fans would really hook into.

00:28:46.588 --> 00:28:50.458
But yeah, it was a little bit
still figuring its feet out.

00:28:51.524 --> 00:28:54.374
Kevin: Number three, One
of Our Planets is Missing.

00:28:54.628 --> 00:28:55.048
Rob: Yes.

00:28:55.048 --> 00:28:56.938
How did you um, feel about this one?

00:28:56.985 --> 00:29:01.187
Kevin: I thought it was very much like
an Original Series episode, probably

00:29:01.192 --> 00:29:03.457
because it was a mashup of two of them.

00:29:03.787 --> 00:29:08.087
It was the Immunity Syndrome, the
giant space amoeba, and was Devil

00:29:08.107 --> 00:29:11.047
in the Dark, "NO KILL I", Horta.

00:29:11.267 --> 00:29:12.817
Was really like those two.

00:29:12.837 --> 00:29:16.670
What if we take what's good about two
great episodes of Star Trek and mash

00:29:16.670 --> 00:29:17.870
them together to make another one.

00:29:18.140 --> 00:29:19.610
So it was all right.

00:29:19.700 --> 00:29:23.450
It was three episodes in, it
was already the second time they

00:29:23.455 --> 00:29:25.070
threatened to self-destruct the ship.

00:29:25.136 --> 00:29:27.423
And so I would call it
a middle of the pack.

00:29:27.423 --> 00:29:28.713
Not bad, not great.

00:29:28.982 --> 00:29:29.282
Rob: Yes.

00:29:29.287 --> 00:29:29.432
Yeah.

00:29:29.432 --> 00:29:32.612
The only note of it, it was about the
self-destruct thing that we talked

00:29:32.612 --> 00:29:34.069
about a couple of episodes ago.

00:29:34.069 --> 00:29:38.367
So, yeah, so it, it's canon
for us, for our podcast.

00:29:38.405 --> 00:29:40.145
But other than that,
nothing of note really.

00:29:40.986 --> 00:29:42.866
Kevin: Number four, The Lorelei Signal.

00:29:43.030 --> 00:29:43.715
Rob: is the big one.

00:29:43.720 --> 00:29:45.995
This is a big one that
we have mentioned before.

00:29:46.445 --> 00:29:50.068
This is it's a little bit Brigadoon,
but it's also a little bit, that's

00:29:50.068 --> 00:29:52.007
what happens when the women take over.

00:29:52.428 --> 00:29:53.088
Kevin: Yes.

00:29:53.328 --> 00:29:58.048
The men are incapacitated by a sexy
signal and the women have to save the day.

00:29:58.127 --> 00:29:58.607
Rob: Yes.

00:29:58.637 --> 00:29:58.847
Yeah.

00:29:58.852 --> 00:30:03.471
And of the women as in the two
women on the on, on the, so it's

00:30:03.621 --> 00:30:06.712
Kevin: Majel Barrett and Nichelle
Nichols have to save the day, and

00:30:06.712 --> 00:30:08.332
one of them is playing four parts.

00:30:09.201 --> 00:30:09.501
Rob: Yeah.

00:30:09.501 --> 00:30:09.801
Yeah.

00:30:10.371 --> 00:30:13.431
We are hearing that voice in so
many different pictures and tones.

00:30:13.488 --> 00:30:16.848
Kevin: There was a scene in which
Uhura talked to the computer that

00:30:16.848 --> 00:30:20.208
was also Uhura, and then talked
to another character that was also

00:30:20.208 --> 00:30:21.828
Uhura, or it was all Nichelle Nichols.

00:30:22.008 --> 00:30:25.756
She played three voices in one scene
talking to each each other, and I only

00:30:25.756 --> 00:30:29.386
noticed it the second time I watched
the episode, which is a testament to

00:30:29.386 --> 00:30:31.696
her ability to do multiple voices.

00:30:31.906 --> 00:30:35.476
Not every Original Series
cast member has that skill.

00:30:35.814 --> 00:30:38.318
Rob: did very well and that
she in many ways she's close to

00:30:38.318 --> 00:30:39.758
being the MVP of this series.

00:30:39.758 --> 00:30:43.385
The multiple voices she did
and how different they were.

00:30:43.427 --> 00:30:43.607
Yeah.

00:30:43.607 --> 00:30:45.617
Jimmy Doohan, You need a bit of work.

00:30:46.923 --> 00:30:47.763
Kevin: For all that.

00:30:47.823 --> 00:30:48.363
Not a great

00:30:48.572 --> 00:30:49.862
Rob: No, look, that's the thing.

00:30:49.862 --> 00:30:52.726
It's it's something we were looking
forward to and excited about because

00:30:52.726 --> 00:31:00.103
this is the one where, the only way that,
that Uhura can actually be the position

00:31:00.103 --> 00:31:05.813
of third in command is that the men, all
the men are incapacitated by sexy aliens.

00:31:06.289 --> 00:31:10.239
Kevin: And the way she saves the
day is she disobeys one order, beams

00:31:10.239 --> 00:31:12.159
down and asks the men what to do.

00:31:12.593 --> 00:31:13.283
Rob: Yes.

00:31:13.343 --> 00:31:13.973
Yes.

00:31:14.033 --> 00:31:14.213
Yeah.

00:31:14.273 --> 00:31:19.565
It's it's that clumsy view of the future
from a very dated way of doing things.

00:31:19.567 --> 00:31:22.787
There's a classic Doctor Who story
from the sixties with Patrick

00:31:22.787 --> 00:31:27.227
Trouten that got so far to being
made, but was canceled at the end.

00:31:27.227 --> 00:31:31.397
It's called the Space Prison, where it
goes to a planet where, good lord, all

00:31:31.397 --> 00:31:33.257
the women are the dominating power.

00:31:33.557 --> 00:31:39.407
And the female companion gets caught up
by their radical thinking, where women are

00:31:39.412 --> 00:31:44.057
the top dogs and the only way for her to
be broken out of their hypnotic phase was

00:31:44.057 --> 00:31:46.157
to be smacked on the bottom by the doctor.

00:31:46.607 --> 00:31:49.907
So thankfully, that
episode was never made.

00:31:49.951 --> 00:31:53.551
Kevin: The plot of this episode makes
about the same amount of sense, I'll say.

00:31:53.611 --> 00:31:56.559
Uh, Number five, More
Tribbles, More Troubles.

00:31:56.567 --> 00:31:59.327
Rob: I You sure it's not called
Mo' Tribbles, Mo' Trouble?

00:31:59.988 --> 00:32:00.348
Kevin: Might?

00:32:00.958 --> 00:32:02.418
Were there are a lot of mustaches?

00:32:02.509 --> 00:32:02.929
Rob: Yes.

00:32:02.929 --> 00:32:06.499
So the, we got the Klingon here
in their old fashioned type of,

00:32:06.529 --> 00:32:08.119
almost sounding a bit piratey.

00:32:08.809 --> 00:32:10.459
Nah, here we are, Kirk.

00:32:10.493 --> 00:32:11.818
Kevin: That's how Klingons were back

00:32:11.922 --> 00:32:13.842
Rob: They were, they
were very much like that.

00:32:13.842 --> 00:32:16.482
So just a good reminder for
me to go, oh, that's right.

00:32:16.722 --> 00:32:17.262
They were very

00:32:18.418 --> 00:32:18.958
Kevin: Yeah.

00:32:19.182 --> 00:32:19.932
Rob: of mustache twi.

00:32:19.992 --> 00:32:21.882
Kevin: Like I was saying
before, I felt this was much

00:32:21.882 --> 00:32:23.262
more forced than the original.

00:32:23.267 --> 00:32:28.342
It was it, they were a little too
self-satisfied with how good the original

00:32:28.347 --> 00:32:33.310
episode was, and it was just like, if
they reference the same jokes and give you

00:32:33.310 --> 00:32:37.831
a bit of a wink, wink, nudge, nudge, it
makes a good story and it doesn't really.

00:32:37.831 --> 00:32:41.923
This was not a story that needed to be
told is what I wrote to myself here.

00:32:42.223 --> 00:32:44.965
It was a cheap rehash of what
made the original one popular,

00:32:45.235 --> 00:32:46.515
but for what it was, it was okay.

00:32:46.539 --> 00:32:48.822
There were, ships flying
around machinations.

00:32:48.822 --> 00:32:52.189
They had the tribble eater and
then they had the giant tribble.

00:32:52.539 --> 00:32:55.039
Yeah, there was some fun to be had, but

00:32:55.068 --> 00:32:57.863
Rob: and it's a bit, again,
I'll say the word clumsy, like

00:32:58.133 --> 00:33:02.723
at this point the Klingons were
just like pretty much pure bad.

00:33:02.723 --> 00:33:04.643
So they're, but the butt of all jokes.

00:33:04.643 --> 00:33:08.453
I think there's another one as well with
the Klingons or the Romulans and like

00:33:08.753 --> 00:33:12.233
at the end it's just a case of, oh well
they're gonna have to deal with it now.

00:33:12.233 --> 00:33:12.723
Wah wah.

00:33:12.953 --> 00:33:15.503
I'm going, no, they've actually
been left in a very dangerous

00:33:15.503 --> 00:33:17.085
situation and Oh, okay.

00:33:17.085 --> 00:33:18.045
No, we're joking about it.

00:33:18.075 --> 00:33:18.345
Okay.

00:33:18.345 --> 00:33:19.155
Cuz they're bad guys.

00:33:19.215 --> 00:33:19.365
Haha.

00:33:21.615 --> 00:33:21.945
Yeah,

00:33:23.076 --> 00:33:25.542
Kevin: Ah, the next one is number six.

00:33:25.602 --> 00:33:28.632
We haven't hit any of our
tops or bottom episodes yet,

00:33:28.841 --> 00:33:32.249
Rob: no, I'm very interested to,
I'll see if we have a have a jinx

00:33:32.249 --> 00:33:33.359
and whether we hit the same one.

00:33:33.990 --> 00:33:38.010
Kevin: The next one is the
Survivor, number six with Carter

00:33:38.015 --> 00:33:39.840
Winston, or was it Winston Carter?

00:33:39.845 --> 00:33:40.990
I kept getting confused.

00:33:41.010 --> 00:33:42.480
The guy had two first names.

00:33:43.409 --> 00:33:44.609
Rob: That Yes, that's it.

00:33:44.639 --> 00:33:45.179
The what?

00:33:45.479 --> 00:33:47.519
Pretty much you're correct on both fronts.

00:33:47.552 --> 00:33:48.170
Kevin: Yeah.

00:33:48.170 --> 00:33:52.596
I'm frankly, I am looking up this
episode because it was that memorable.

00:33:52.596 --> 00:33:53.016
I can't

00:33:53.180 --> 00:33:53.510
Rob: Yeah.

00:33:53.566 --> 00:33:54.766
I'm a bit like that as well.

00:33:55.045 --> 00:34:00.415
Kevin: This is the one where they rescued
the famous guy who turned out to be a

00:34:00.415 --> 00:34:03.654
shape shifting alien spy from Romulans.

00:34:03.673 --> 00:34:07.796
Rob: he found his previous wife,

00:34:07.842 --> 00:34:09.835
Kevin: girlfriend who ha,
just happened to be on the

00:34:10.119 --> 00:34:11.409
Rob: happened to be and never

00:34:11.515 --> 00:34:11.845
Kevin: Wife.

00:34:11.845 --> 00:34:13.705
Wife or girlfriend, I
can't remember which.

00:34:13.755 --> 00:34:14.715
Might have been fiance.

00:34:15.579 --> 00:34:16.089
Rob: Yes.

00:34:16.089 --> 00:34:19.989
And then it's revealed that he's a
shape-shifting spy and he's trying

00:34:19.994 --> 00:34:21.699
to break up with her and Yeah.

00:34:21.729 --> 00:34:22.329
Yes.

00:34:22.389 --> 00:34:23.439
That's all I remember as

00:34:23.680 --> 00:34:26.680
Kevin: There was a moment in this
where bones was surprisingly not

00:34:26.680 --> 00:34:28.780
grumpy, and it was a plot point.

00:34:28.852 --> 00:34:33.292
Kirk and Spock know how many bio beds they
have in sick Bay, better than McCoy does.

00:34:33.292 --> 00:34:36.742
So the Shapeshifter was hiding as
a bed in sick bay, and McCoy didn't

00:34:36.842 --> 00:34:39.112
notice, but Kirk and Spock did.

00:34:39.112 --> 00:34:42.367
I kind of love how many white women
Nichelle Nichols played in this

00:34:42.367 --> 00:34:45.317
series, but no Uhura in this episode.

00:34:45.397 --> 00:34:50.287
There was M'Ress though, so I get
the sense they, some, they needed

00:34:50.287 --> 00:34:54.757
something for Majel Barrett to do
every episode, and sometimes that meant

00:34:54.757 --> 00:34:59.035
playing M'Ress, even though Nichelle
Nichols was present for the episode.

00:34:59.739 --> 00:35:02.295
Rob: Look, it is a little
bit of that glorious nepotism

00:35:02.295 --> 00:35:03.085
coming through right there.

00:35:03.315 --> 00:35:06.084
They're going, Roddenberry's going,
gotta make room for the wife.

00:35:06.089 --> 00:35:06.444
Come on.

00:35:07.080 --> 00:35:11.000
Kevin: interesting choice to have the
Romulan battle cruisers still share a ship

00:35:11.005 --> 00:35:13.660
design with Klingon ships, even animation.

00:35:14.290 --> 00:35:17.720
Like that was something they did to save
money in the original series, they reused

00:35:17.720 --> 00:35:20.990
the models and shot them with a slightly
different colored light on them, so

00:35:21.140 --> 00:35:23.450
they looked bluer and therefore Romulan.

00:35:23.810 --> 00:35:27.605
And the fans made up a story that
the Romulan stole the technology

00:35:27.605 --> 00:35:30.215
or bought the technology from
the Klingons, whatever it is.

00:35:30.215 --> 00:35:33.939
But here you, here you got the
opportunity to draw anything you want.

00:35:33.939 --> 00:35:36.369
And they drew the same ship
design just with a dif, like

00:35:36.369 --> 00:35:37.809
a lightning bolt on the side

00:35:37.823 --> 00:35:38.633
Rob: Yeah, exactly.

00:35:38.633 --> 00:35:40.103
They just want, that's what we've used.

00:35:40.103 --> 00:35:42.473
Instead of going, let's
think big about everything.

00:35:42.623 --> 00:35:42.983
Yeah.

00:35:42.983 --> 00:35:45.503
It is a bit limited with
the way of imagination goes.

00:35:45.546 --> 00:35:50.256
Kevin: My favorite line is Well, he's
a shape shifter, so one would have to

00:35:50.256 --> 00:35:52.686
assume he could become a deflector shield.

00:35:57.890 --> 00:35:58.700
Rob: Yes.

00:35:58.774 --> 00:36:02.628
Kevin: And for all that the my parting
thought on this one, the Spock McCoy smack

00:36:02.628 --> 00:36:04.638
talk at the end almost made the whole

00:36:04.952 --> 00:36:05.899
Rob: Yeah, very much they're

00:36:06.095 --> 00:36:09.725
Kevin: This was the first time they really
leaned into that in The Animated Series.

00:36:09.725 --> 00:36:12.755
They remembered what they had with
Spock and McCoy, and they, they

00:36:12.755 --> 00:36:15.785
did a full on comedy bit between
the two of them at the end here.

00:36:15.889 --> 00:36:18.819
Rob: It was a great way
to finish a, alright.

00:36:19.339 --> 00:36:19.609
Yeah.

00:36:19.709 --> 00:36:21.113
a forgettable one.

00:36:21.999 --> 00:36:24.039
Kevin: Number seven, the Infinite Vulcan.

00:36:24.039 --> 00:36:25.389
We've already talked a bit about this

00:36:25.613 --> 00:36:25.883
Rob: Yeah.

00:36:25.883 --> 00:36:27.797
This nearly got on my bad list.

00:36:27.797 --> 00:36:31.977
I'm just there going, why
do we have giant Spocks and

00:36:32.133 --> 00:36:37.203
Kevin: had heard rumors about a
giant Spock of a Spock Two, and

00:36:37.272 --> 00:36:40.272
I read about it at some point
and I thought, that is stupid.

00:36:40.332 --> 00:36:45.432
And then I immediately forgot it until I
was confronted with it in this episode.

00:36:45.496 --> 00:36:49.726
Surprisingly little Spock in an
episode entitled The Infinite.

00:36:50.339 --> 00:36:51.959
Rob: Yeah, I think it's a balance thing.

00:36:51.959 --> 00:36:55.547
So time wise they spread him
out through the whole episode.

00:36:55.547 --> 00:36:57.407
I really hope this gag works.

00:36:57.492 --> 00:37:01.754
So because they had less time for
him, that means he could go taller.

00:37:01.965 --> 00:37:02.865
Kevin: Oh, yes.

00:37:02.878 --> 00:37:05.037
It's amount of Spock by square

00:37:05.305 --> 00:37:05.665
Rob: Yeah.

00:37:05.665 --> 00:37:06.175
It's, yeah.

00:37:06.175 --> 00:37:08.203
It's the body mass has to be shifted

00:37:08.218 --> 00:37:08.746
Kevin: Yeah.

00:37:08.956 --> 00:37:12.967
He gets carried off by a screaming
dragon, and those things came back

00:37:12.972 --> 00:37:16.837
again and again with this same
sound effect played over and over.

00:37:16.843 --> 00:37:19.805
But yeah, Spock gets carried off
at the start of this episode.

00:37:19.810 --> 00:37:24.185
Then most of the episode goes by and
then we meet giant Spock at the end,

00:37:24.185 --> 00:37:26.885
and Spock talks Spock out of being

00:37:27.244 --> 00:37:27.994
Rob: Yes, of course.

00:37:28.048 --> 00:37:29.908
It's, yeah, it's,

00:37:30.329 --> 00:37:35.163
Kevin: The giant scientist who was
evil, but then not evil and for some

00:37:35.168 --> 00:37:36.813
reason he is wearing a loin cloth.

00:37:36.818 --> 00:37:38.635
And it's very strange

00:37:38.635 --> 00:37:38.845
this.

00:37:39.234 --> 00:37:40.164
Rob: It's very odd.

00:37:40.164 --> 00:37:41.214
Yeah, it is weird.

00:37:41.214 --> 00:37:42.534
And yeah,

00:37:42.615 --> 00:37:44.635
Kevin: Walter Koenig, you are forgiven.

00:37:44.729 --> 00:37:48.604
Rob: are forgiven and most of it you had
to rewrite anyway, so we'll blame Gene.

00:37:49.205 --> 00:37:55.115
Kevin: This one had the super awkward Sulu
joke at the end where Kirk says, Sulu,

00:37:55.115 --> 00:38:00.728
you're one of the most scrutable people
I know, which is leaning into the racist

00:38:00.733 --> 00:38:03.158
stereotype of the inscrutable Asian.

00:38:03.169 --> 00:38:03.407
Rob: Yep.

00:38:05.297 --> 00:38:05.927
Oh, joy.

00:38:06.249 --> 00:38:09.769
Kevin: Uh, Number eight,
The Magicks of Megas-tu.

00:38:10.162 --> 00:38:13.882
Rob: Now this was weird, right?

00:38:13.942 --> 00:38:15.082
This was like

00:38:15.129 --> 00:38:15.939
Kevin: Super weird.

00:38:15.939 --> 00:38:17.979
This was Lucifer.

00:38:17.997 --> 00:38:21.219
Rob: Lucifer that they're dealing
with, gender and sexual politics

00:38:21.219 --> 00:38:22.599
aside of how limited it was.

00:38:22.604 --> 00:38:25.638
This is like dealing with
let's feel sorry for the devil.

00:38:26.254 --> 00:38:26.614
Kevin: Yeah,

00:38:26.658 --> 00:38:27.468
Rob: It's weird.

00:38:27.498 --> 00:38:28.758
It was so weird.

00:38:28.954 --> 00:38:29.494
Kevin: It is weird.

00:38:29.524 --> 00:38:30.784
This is my clunker.

00:38:30.858 --> 00:38:31.878
Rob: That was your clunker.

00:38:32.014 --> 00:38:33.154
Kevin: this is my clunker.

00:38:33.154 --> 00:38:36.664
The Enterprise meets Lucifer
at the center of the galaxy and

00:38:36.664 --> 00:38:39.034
crosses over into a realm of magic.

00:38:39.634 --> 00:38:42.364
Spock figures out that if you
squint hard enough, you can

00:38:42.364 --> 00:38:44.464
do magic in this magic realm.

00:38:45.064 --> 00:38:48.304
Eventually they end up being
tried as witches in Salem.

00:38:48.348 --> 00:38:48.978
Rob: In Salem.

00:38:48.978 --> 00:38:49.728
Yes, that's right.

00:38:49.728 --> 00:38:50.028
Yep.

00:38:50.404 --> 00:38:52.962
Kevin: And the only other thought
I wrote here is there's a lot of

00:38:52.962 --> 00:38:55.062
pseudo religious nonsense here.

00:38:55.736 --> 00:38:56.396
Rob: It's a lot.

00:38:56.401 --> 00:38:57.416
It's not, yeah.

00:38:58.256 --> 00:39:03.736
For me, it wasn't even pseudo, it was
very ham-handed, ham-fisted, hardcore

00:39:04.096 --> 00:39:05.066
religious stuff thrown in there.

00:39:05.066 --> 00:39:06.912
And it did not match at all.

00:39:06.947 --> 00:39:13.127
Kevin: This is Star Trek V,
several decades earlier, and

00:39:13.255 --> 00:39:14.995
Rob: Well, clearly they couldn't remember.

00:39:15.012 --> 00:39:18.342
Kevin: It's the same bad
idea, but compared to this.

00:39:18.347 --> 00:39:20.722
They did it surprisingly
well in Star Trek V.

00:39:20.722 --> 00:39:20.972
Rob: Yeah.

00:39:21.009 --> 00:39:21.538
That's the thing.

00:39:21.596 --> 00:39:26.539
Clearly they must have forgotten all
about it because if when uh, Shatner

00:39:26.554 --> 00:39:29.569
approached with the script, they would've
gone, oh no, we did that before, mate.

00:39:30.229 --> 00:39:32.359
It wasn't good, but they
clearly forgot about it.

00:39:32.359 --> 00:39:35.656
And they went, yeah, okay let's
give, no, let's appease Shatner.

00:39:35.676 --> 00:39:37.476
I don't think anyone was excited about it.

00:39:37.476 --> 00:39:39.576
They just went, okay,
let's just write five off.

00:39:40.072 --> 00:39:44.272
Kevin: If I never see Lucien, which is
the name they gave Lucifer, to make it

00:39:44.272 --> 00:39:50.362
palatable to the censors, if I never see
Lucien extend his arms again, it will

00:39:50.481 --> 00:39:51.201
Rob: much of that.

00:39:51.206 --> 00:39:52.191
Oh my gosh.

00:39:52.371 --> 00:39:54.051
And spelling magic differently.

00:39:54.051 --> 00:39:55.971
Was that something to do
with the censors as well?

00:39:56.871 --> 00:39:57.411
Yeah,

00:39:57.652 --> 00:39:58.318
Kevin: it's weird.

00:39:58.382 --> 00:40:04.640
Yeah, I mean there is some interview
fodder on this one of just like,

00:40:04.720 --> 00:40:09.070
whenever anyone went to Gene for ideas
he wanted to do, the crew meets God

00:40:10.270 --> 00:40:12.940
and the network said, it can't be God.

00:40:12.940 --> 00:40:14.620
This is Saturday morning television.

00:40:14.650 --> 00:40:16.750
And he said, how about the devil?

00:40:17.200 --> 00:40:20.080
And they said, can you
give him a different name?

00:40:23.530 --> 00:40:24.670
But no bad one.

00:40:24.808 --> 00:40:26.998
This is my worst episode

00:40:27.056 --> 00:40:27.506
Rob: yeah.

00:40:27.566 --> 00:40:30.476
It was pretty much in my clunkers
as well, but there's one a bit

00:40:30.476 --> 00:40:32.216
later on that I just went, Ooh.

00:40:32.221 --> 00:40:32.696
Yeah.

00:40:33.508 --> 00:40:34.078
Kevin: Yeah.

00:40:34.130 --> 00:40:35.240
Number nine.

00:40:35.240 --> 00:40:38.240
Once Upon a Planet, the sequel to Shore

00:40:38.524 --> 00:40:40.144
Rob: Now I haven't seen Shore Leave.

00:40:40.144 --> 00:40:43.324
So how was this for you?

00:40:43.640 --> 00:40:45.050
Kevin: Tonally very similar.

00:40:45.080 --> 00:40:50.068
Like this is very faithful to the so tone
set by the original the crew beamed down

00:40:50.338 --> 00:40:53.728
to a planet that is seemingly idyllic.

00:40:53.804 --> 00:40:59.236
And then immediately start
having apparently visions of

00:40:59.236 --> 00:41:00.856
things from their imagination.

00:41:00.856 --> 00:41:04.216
Bones is thinking of Alice in
Wonderland and the giant rabbit

00:41:04.756 --> 00:41:09.436
bounces by, followed by a young
blonde-haired girl chasing the rabbit.

00:41:09.466 --> 00:41:14.538
And quickly these imaginary thoughts
become real, get a little out of

00:41:14.538 --> 00:41:19.230
hand, someone gets stabbed but it
turns out it's okay because the

00:41:19.230 --> 00:41:21.120
entire planet is an amusement park.

00:41:21.180 --> 00:41:26.112
And y the planet's systems
will repair any injury and it's

00:41:26.112 --> 00:41:27.702
all a big misunderstanding.

00:41:27.702 --> 00:41:30.011
And at the end of it they
go, wow, it's amazing.

00:41:30.028 --> 00:41:34.545
And Bones is standing there with a
woman on either arm that have been

00:41:34.545 --> 00:41:36.045
conjured for him by the planet.

00:41:36.285 --> 00:41:37.515
They're both wearing.

00:41:38.110 --> 00:41:43.420
Apparently pom-poms, like their entire
costume is made out of skillfully placed

00:41:43.420 --> 00:41:45.900
pom-poms and as much skin as possible.

00:41:46.540 --> 00:41:49.343
And uh, Kirk goes, this all checks out.

00:41:49.463 --> 00:41:50.993
Beam the whole crew down.

00:41:50.993 --> 00:41:51.773
End of episode.

00:41:52.103 --> 00:41:53.033
That's Shore Leave.

00:41:53.682 --> 00:41:54.302
Rob: All right.

00:41:54.334 --> 00:41:54.568
There you go.

00:41:54.999 --> 00:41:55.489
Kevin: Yeah.

00:41:55.571 --> 00:41:57.065
And this is it is.

00:41:57.245 --> 00:41:59.231
I thought it was fun.

00:41:59.255 --> 00:41:59.705
It is.

00:41:59.765 --> 00:42:03.125
The Original Series is intended
to be not taken too seriously.

00:42:03.515 --> 00:42:06.386
There are some good character beats
in The Original Series where you

00:42:06.386 --> 00:42:11.171
get to see what these professionals
imagine or fantasize about.

00:42:11.171 --> 00:42:15.071
So the, it's another one of those like
forcing characters to let down their guard

00:42:15.071 --> 00:42:16.721
by revealing their innermost thoughts and

00:42:16.945 --> 00:42:17.665
Rob: Of course.

00:42:18.041 --> 00:42:23.041
Kevin: Kirk has fist fight with his
nemesis from the academy  who tells

00:42:23.041 --> 00:42:26.764
him he's a, he was a walking pile
of books and needs to loosen up.

00:42:27.094 --> 00:42:29.044
So there was a lot of that in Shore Leave.

00:42:29.044 --> 00:42:31.354
I think there was a little
of that missing here.

00:42:31.354 --> 00:42:34.444
It was much more plot driven
than character driven, this one.

00:42:34.727 --> 00:42:39.674
Rob: Yes, and anytime there, Star
Trek, lean into, literary inspiration.

00:42:39.679 --> 00:42:43.650
So whether it be Shakespeare or Peter
Pan or Alison Wonderland, I'm happy.

00:42:43.680 --> 00:42:48.360
And it's also sort like that proto version
of, and it's mentioned the little line

00:42:48.390 --> 00:42:53.070
later on of that kind of representation
of what the holodeck later becomes.

00:42:54.616 --> 00:42:57.106
Kevin: This for me might
have been the high point for

00:42:57.106 --> 00:42:59.206
Uhura in The Animated Series.

00:42:59.206 --> 00:43:04.786
She has a one of those Kirk style
debates with a computer where she tries

00:43:04.786 --> 00:43:08.250
to convince the computer that they are
wrong and should change their ways.

00:43:08.400 --> 00:43:12.630
Sadly, the computer is not convinced
by Uhura, but it's a great speech

00:43:12.635 --> 00:43:17.178
and I thought gave her more to
do and more agency than we got

00:43:17.912 --> 00:43:18.272
Rob: Yes.

00:43:18.272 --> 00:43:22.242
We're, it's a sad state of affairs when
we are reaching for those highlights.

00:43:22.242 --> 00:43:25.542
But yeah, Nichelle Nichols was
powering on as the champion she was.

00:43:26.159 --> 00:43:26.759
Kevin: Yeah.

00:43:26.860 --> 00:43:30.130
Uh, a couple of awkward long pauses
where it seems like they might

00:43:30.130 --> 00:43:33.010
have been in filling time, but
otherwise, a solid episode with

00:43:33.010 --> 00:43:34.210
a lot of fun stuff for the whole

00:43:34.424 --> 00:43:36.864
Rob: Yes, it was, it's not one
of my favorites, but it was

00:43:36.864 --> 00:43:38.454
definitely one of the better ones.

00:43:38.454 --> 00:43:40.744
And they're starting to
pick up that momentum of

00:43:40.805 --> 00:43:42.155
understanding what they can do.

00:43:42.501 --> 00:43:45.801
Kevin: I'd say if you were a fan who
enjoyed the original, this I'd bump

00:43:45.801 --> 00:43:48.169
this up a notch for nostalgia as well.

00:43:49.069 --> 00:43:50.899
Number 10, Mudd's Passion.

00:43:50.899 --> 00:43:55.488
Rob: We've we've talked about bringing
back old Mudd to really show what

00:43:55.525 --> 00:43:57.765
decade our gender politics is.

00:43:58.196 --> 00:44:02.996
Kevin: Yes, he brings the, what I wrote
as the heteronormative love potion, where

00:44:02.996 --> 00:44:06.986
he goes out of his way to say that between
a man and a woman, it creates love.

00:44:06.986 --> 00:44:09.866
But between a man and a
man, it creates friendship.

00:44:12.055 --> 00:44:12.715
Rob: That's right.

00:44:12.715 --> 00:44:18.625
That's damn right because that's
all there is in the way of things.

00:44:18.672 --> 00:44:18.942
Yeah.

00:44:18.947 --> 00:44:19.032
Yeah.

00:44:19.037 --> 00:44:19.632
It's uh,

00:44:19.993 --> 00:44:25.152
Kevin: uh, Yeah, not my clunkiest one, but
I would not go outta my way to watch this.

00:44:25.192 --> 00:44:26.268
Mudd is true to form.

00:44:26.268 --> 00:44:30.438
If you enjoyed the performance of
Mudd, you get more of that here.

00:44:31.023 --> 00:44:34.744
He is pitch perfect for all
the good and bad that brings.

00:44:35.194 --> 00:44:39.214
Weird that the Enterprise
uses ID cards all of a sudden.

00:44:39.292 --> 00:44:43.603
Mudd steals Nurse Chapel's ID
card in order to make his escape.

00:44:43.932 --> 00:44:45.072
Rob: Yes, that's right.

00:44:45.793 --> 00:44:49.753
Kevin: McCoy is sitting at a bridge
station out of nowhere in this

00:44:49.753 --> 00:44:51.793
episode, and it's not commented upon.

00:44:51.883 --> 00:44:54.043
There's just suddenly a shot
of McCoy sitting at what

00:44:54.043 --> 00:44:55.663
looks to be Uhura's station.

00:44:57.613 --> 00:45:05.023
And love drunk Spock is the worst acting
I have ever seen Leonard Nimoy do.

00:45:05.233 --> 00:45:06.133
don't know what happened

00:45:06.402 --> 00:45:08.112
Rob: it is, it's quite embarrassing.

00:45:08.112 --> 00:45:11.961
It's quite awkward about and how
aggressive he is and how much he wants

00:45:11.961 --> 00:45:15.231
Nurse Chapel and who, yeah, My Chris.

00:45:15.471 --> 00:45:16.970
Yeah, that's, it's yeah.

00:45:17.034 --> 00:45:20.184
Kevin: He must have been given
a bum steer in direction, cuz I

00:45:20.184 --> 00:45:21.684
know he can do better than that.

00:45:21.864 --> 00:45:24.624
And it, it was really painful.

00:45:24.624 --> 00:45:27.744
It pulled the whole episode
an already struggling episode.

00:45:27.744 --> 00:45:29.364
It pulled it really down.

00:45:29.438 --> 00:45:32.212
Rob: Yeah, I was checking my
watch a number of times to

00:45:32.212 --> 00:45:33.532
see how much longer we had.

00:45:34.868 --> 00:45:37.448
Kevin: Number 11, The Terratin Incident.

00:45:37.557 --> 00:45:39.172
Rob: one, I can't really remember that

00:45:39.278 --> 00:45:40.868
Kevin: This is the one
where they get tiny.

00:45:41.212 --> 00:45:42.602
Rob: Oh, okay.

00:45:43.042 --> 00:45:43.762
Now I remember.

00:45:43.912 --> 00:45:44.182
Okay.

00:45:44.182 --> 00:45:46.754
So yeah, this is the one where
Nurse Chapel can't save herself.

00:45:47.310 --> 00:45:47.670
Kevin: Yeah.

00:45:47.670 --> 00:45:52.477
And and Kirk has to throw a needle and
thread that happens to be lying around in

00:45:52.521 --> 00:45:53.901
Rob: It happens to be
lying around in sick bay.

00:45:53.901 --> 00:45:54.916
Of course, they've gotta

00:45:54.916 --> 00:45:55.260
Kevin: he

00:45:55.364 --> 00:45:57.452
Rob: they've gotta stitch
up some cuts, don't they?

00:45:57.888 --> 00:46:04.488
Kevin: She's in water, and Kirk throws
effectively an ultra sharp spear at

00:46:04.493 --> 00:46:06.258
her in the water in order to save her.

00:46:06.258 --> 00:46:06.528
And.

00:46:06.662 --> 00:46:07.142
Rob: heroic.

00:46:07.472 --> 00:46:07.712
That's

00:46:07.713 --> 00:46:11.073
Kevin: You see him throw it
and it cuts to her saved, like

00:46:11.103 --> 00:46:12.453
we don't know what happens.

00:46:12.963 --> 00:46:14.403
Something good happens.

00:46:14.432 --> 00:46:15.212
Rob: They ran on money.

00:46:15.212 --> 00:46:17.762
They, there was an elaborate
sequence all worked out.

00:46:18.002 --> 00:46:21.111
I did the it, the quite
juvenile thing of going.

00:46:21.169 --> 00:46:23.052
Clearly they're shrinking,
but they go, no.

00:46:23.052 --> 00:46:24.711
Maybe the ship is growing.

00:46:24.727 --> 00:46:25.957
Kevin: Maybe the ship is growing.

00:46:25.957 --> 00:46:29.587
Yeah, that's a, that was like
a mind blowing for me as a kid.

00:46:29.917 --> 00:46:32.707
That would've been mind blowing,
sitting there Saturday morning.

00:46:32.707 --> 00:46:34.147
I've been like, whoa.

00:46:34.147 --> 00:46:36.037
The ship could be growing.

00:46:36.901 --> 00:46:38.041
Rob: but no, they go with

00:46:38.077 --> 00:46:39.637
Kevin: They were shipping,
they were right the

00:46:39.831 --> 00:46:42.485
Rob: Yeah, they And that would've
been more interesting in many ways,

00:46:42.485 --> 00:46:44.105
the ship growing bigger and bigger.

00:46:44.601 --> 00:46:47.211
Kevin: Oh, we'll get to the
giant Enterprise soon enough.

00:46:47.221 --> 00:46:53.011
There is a weird shot of a dude with
a mustache, a seventies mustache,

00:46:53.041 --> 00:46:55.081
and another guy with glasses.

00:46:55.351 --> 00:46:57.661
The crew is getting ready to beam up.

00:46:57.991 --> 00:47:01.411
Like the crew that has been kidnapped
off the Enterprise, and they're

00:47:01.411 --> 00:47:03.361
being held hostage in the tiny town.

00:47:03.601 --> 00:47:06.421
They're getting ready to beam up and
the transporter will fix everything.

00:47:06.481 --> 00:47:09.391
That is the thing that happens again
and again in The Animated Series is

00:47:09.661 --> 00:47:11.791
the transporter cures everything.

00:47:12.271 --> 00:47:15.251
But they're g they're getting ready
to beam up and it's just a static

00:47:15.251 --> 00:47:19.181
shot of three people and one of them
has a seventies mustache and the

00:47:19.186 --> 00:47:20.591
other person is wearing glasses.

00:47:20.591 --> 00:47:22.541
And I was like, hold the phone.

00:47:22.871 --> 00:47:24.371
There is a story here.

00:47:24.971 --> 00:47:28.211
It turns out those are three
of the animators on the show.

00:47:28.211 --> 00:47:30.761
They got permission to put
themselves in the show.

00:47:31.295 --> 00:47:31.575
Rob: Excellent.

00:47:31.815 --> 00:47:32.375
Great.

00:47:32.488 --> 00:47:36.298
Kevin: And then the end, at the end,
it is clear they really ran out of time

00:47:36.298 --> 00:47:44.668
or money because somehow Kirk orders
the ship to fire on the tiny city that

00:47:44.668 --> 00:47:46.288
they have said they're gonna help.

00:47:46.558 --> 00:47:48.191
They're like, we will help you.

00:47:48.311 --> 00:47:52.781
Just give us our crew back and send
us all the dilithium you got and then

00:47:52.781 --> 00:47:54.071
we'll, we will work something out.

00:47:54.161 --> 00:47:57.911
He gets his crew back, they've been the
dilithium on board and then Kirk orders

00:47:57.911 --> 00:48:00.911
the ship to fire phasers at the city.

00:48:01.511 --> 00:48:02.621
And I'm like, what?

00:48:03.671 --> 00:48:07.391
That seems pure evil.

00:48:07.597 --> 00:48:10.767
And sure enough, the ship fires
phasers at the city and the city

00:48:10.917 --> 00:48:12.867
appears on the transporter platform.

00:48:12.957 --> 00:48:16.767
All I can gather is someone got
confused between phasers and

00:48:16.767 --> 00:48:20.787
transporters and it got a little
too far and it was too late to fix.

00:48:20.818 --> 00:48:21.268
Rob: Yeah.

00:48:21.778 --> 00:48:22.178
Yeah.

00:48:22.232 --> 00:48:22.892
That's what happened.

00:48:23.042 --> 00:48:23.792
That's where it went.

00:48:23.793 --> 00:48:24.183
Kevin: what happened.

00:48:25.983 --> 00:48:27.448
Number 12, The Time Trap.

00:48:27.555 --> 00:48:28.285
Rob: Yes.

00:48:28.500 --> 00:48:29.459
Now this is

00:48:29.518 --> 00:48:33.388
Kevin: This is the Enterprise
and a Klingon ship.

00:48:33.388 --> 00:48:38.547
Both get stuck in a dimension that
is full of other trapped ships.

00:48:38.547 --> 00:48:40.077
It's like the Bermuda Triangle.

00:48:40.227 --> 00:48:44.247
And they've all learned to live in harmony
because they've all decided they're never

00:48:44.247 --> 00:48:47.157
getting home, and time does not progress.

00:48:47.157 --> 00:48:48.747
So none of them age either.

00:48:48.747 --> 00:48:54.365
So it's this community of previously
warring races all stranded together

00:48:54.365 --> 00:48:57.944
and they've decided they've formed
a government and they've made

00:48:58.153 --> 00:48:58.723
Rob: Yes.

00:48:58.772 --> 00:49:02.792
They had the, like the head
of each representative council

00:49:02.797 --> 00:49:04.592
was Yes, I do remember that.

00:49:04.592 --> 00:49:05.102
Yes.

00:49:05.126 --> 00:49:08.611
Kevin: But The Enterprise and
the Klingon ship connect up and

00:49:08.611 --> 00:49:12.421
use their engines together to
warp out of there and get home.

00:49:12.781 --> 00:49:17.071
But it's almost foiled by the Klingons
doing their dastardly deeds and

00:49:17.076 --> 00:49:21.742
being tried on penalty of removing
their ship's power for many years.

00:49:22.430 --> 00:49:23.287
Rob: Again, that's yeah.

00:49:23.347 --> 00:49:25.807
One are clearly not that memorable to me.

00:49:25.921 --> 00:49:30.411
Kevin: George Takei plays
a Klingon captain and it's

00:49:30.801 --> 00:49:32.841
unconvincing is what I wrote here.

00:49:33.621 --> 00:49:34.341
This is where I went.

00:49:34.371 --> 00:49:35.091
Okay, cool.

00:49:35.091 --> 00:49:39.912
Not everyone has the talent or
experience to convincingly create

00:49:39.912 --> 00:49:41.982
multiple characters for an animated TV

00:49:42.370 --> 00:49:43.150
Rob: Yeah, look.

00:49:43.360 --> 00:49:43.660
Yeah.

00:49:43.690 --> 00:49:48.881
Nichelle Nichols is the MVP of that, and
all the boys are sadly falling behind.

00:49:49.162 --> 00:49:51.532
Kevin: Jimmy Doohan does a
decent job if you ask me.

00:49:51.532 --> 00:49:53.362
He does a lot of different characters.

00:49:53.362 --> 00:49:57.472
And in an interview I read, he was jazzed
at the fact that generally he didn't

00:49:57.472 --> 00:49:59.242
put it on an accent for any of them.

00:49:59.242 --> 00:50:02.084
He just put on a different
quality of voice.

00:50:02.084 --> 00:50:05.866
So he was having a lot of fun creating
characters without Scottish accents.

00:50:05.902 --> 00:50:08.962
Rob: I'm glad he had a f
I'm glad he had a fun time.

00:50:09.018 --> 00:50:10.818
Kevin: I rate this as a solid episode,

00:50:10.952 --> 00:50:13.232
Rob: There's some good
look from what from Yes.

00:50:13.412 --> 00:50:16.952
Thank you for going into detail, not
just for the viewers, but for me as well.

00:50:17.132 --> 00:50:21.722
Yes, I did like that concept of all
these warring races that were, it's very

00:50:21.727 --> 00:50:23.732
Star Treky of going, we're trapped here.

00:50:23.762 --> 00:50:26.222
No, time is, time means nothing here.

00:50:26.222 --> 00:50:27.842
So we have to work together.

00:50:28.248 --> 00:50:29.478
Kevin: It's a beautiful dilemma.

00:50:29.478 --> 00:50:34.428
It is like, here is the peace that
feels impossible in the galaxy.

00:50:34.518 --> 00:50:35.658
They made it work.

00:50:36.318 --> 00:50:39.498
And we are going to do our
darnedest to get the heck outta

00:50:39.498 --> 00:50:41.331
here cuz we we wanna go home.

00:50:41.375 --> 00:50:42.725
Rob: We cannot stay here.

00:50:42.725 --> 00:50:44.285
This is like far too boring.

00:50:45.696 --> 00:50:48.276
Kevin: Number 13, The Ambergris Incident.

00:50:48.306 --> 00:50:49.626
Lots of swimming.

00:50:49.685 --> 00:50:53.937
Rob: Lots of swimming, lots of stuff that
you'd never be able to do in live action.

00:50:53.989 --> 00:50:59.125
Big sea snakes and venom extraction
and Kirk and Spock and not

00:50:59.125 --> 00:51:01.683
being able to breathe oxygen.

00:51:01.683 --> 00:51:04.653
So they have to stay in, they
had to convert areas of the

00:51:04.653 --> 00:51:06.403
Enterprise to be filled with water.

00:51:06.403 --> 00:51:08.856
And they sound perfectly normal
even though they're under water.

00:51:09.427 --> 00:51:11.317
Kevin: it is on paper.

00:51:11.377 --> 00:51:14.497
It should be a really great episode.

00:51:14.497 --> 00:51:18.810
In practice, it was lots of swimming
and debating and then swimming, and

00:51:18.810 --> 00:51:20.400
then more debating and more swimming.

00:51:20.496 --> 00:51:24.856
It was it got tedious for me, it was
good to see McCoy get some speeches

00:51:24.856 --> 00:51:28.869
as he worked through the medical
puzzle of Kirk and Spock's mutation.

00:51:28.899 --> 00:51:32.769
Like this for me was first time
we got to see McCoy doing his job

00:51:32.837 --> 00:51:34.367
Rob: he was very doctory in this.

00:51:34.367 --> 00:51:35.447
Yeah, very doctory going.

00:51:35.447 --> 00:51:36.377
How do we solve this?

00:51:36.377 --> 00:51:37.367
How do we figure this out?

00:51:37.729 --> 00:51:38.119
Kevin: Yeah.

00:51:38.179 --> 00:51:40.009
A novelty, but not especially good.

00:51:40.129 --> 00:51:41.209
This one, I think.

00:51:41.357 --> 00:51:44.927
Rob: Yeah, it came across a far more
kiddy than it should, even though

00:51:44.927 --> 00:51:47.807
it was like boring stretches of
talking and discussing and stuff.

00:51:47.812 --> 00:51:52.533
But that's a whole thing of let's turn our
characters into now underwater creatures.

00:51:52.533 --> 00:51:55.598
It's very, Mario putting
on a penguin suit if,

00:51:55.629 --> 00:51:56.119
Kevin: Yeah.

00:51:56.120 --> 00:51:56.810
They, yeah.

00:51:57.230 --> 00:52:00.080
Anyway, number 14, The Slaver Weapon.

00:52:00.319 --> 00:52:01.369
Rob: This was really good.

00:52:01.955 --> 00:52:02.384
Kevin: Oh yeah?

00:52:02.384 --> 00:52:03.362
Rob: I like this one

00:52:03.708 --> 00:52:05.298
Kevin: We might disagree
for the first time.

00:52:06.242 --> 00:52:08.972
Rob: And it was particularly
interesting cuz there was no Kirk

00:52:09.782 --> 00:52:10.982
and so it was just a way mission.

00:52:10.987 --> 00:52:15.845
So it was Spock, Uhura and Sulu uh,
out on their Runabout and finding a

00:52:15.862 --> 00:52:19.618
Kevin: I did like that fit, that made it
felt like a Next Generation episode to me.

00:52:19.618 --> 00:52:22.108
There are a few great Next
Generation episodes that are

00:52:22.108 --> 00:52:25.905
like, we're away from the ship on
our shuttle or on our Runabout.

00:52:25.905 --> 00:52:29.535
And it's a odd combination of
characters and we got that here.

00:52:29.565 --> 00:52:31.373
It felt ahead of its time in that respect.

00:52:31.399 --> 00:52:35.897
Rob: And this is adapted by Larry
Niven on his own story the Soft Weapon.

00:52:36.378 --> 00:52:36.708
Kevin: Yeah.

00:52:36.708 --> 00:52:38.833
Great, great Star Trek
writer, Larry Niven.

00:52:38.921 --> 00:52:39.441
Rob: Yeah.

00:52:39.441 --> 00:52:43.471
Yeah I like the, there was a, yeah,
there was just a confidence to it.

00:52:43.471 --> 00:52:47.930
There was a the, and seeing the dynamic
of those three characters who, you

00:52:47.935 --> 00:52:52.229
know, especially with Sulu and Uhura
not getting that many episodes in the

00:52:52.229 --> 00:52:56.183
forefront, but to have the three of
them out on this away mission was great.

00:52:56.183 --> 00:53:00.301
And there's a definite threat there
and a definite developing of the

00:53:00.301 --> 00:53:02.071
history of a culture, which I kind of

00:53:02.288 --> 00:53:07.248
Kevin: I think what hurt this one in my
eyes was that the, what happened again

00:53:07.248 --> 00:53:12.170
and again and again in this episode was,
it's let's see what the next setting does.

00:53:12.350 --> 00:53:14.210
Oh, it's also a disappointment.

00:53:17.570 --> 00:53:18.050
Um,

00:53:18.139 --> 00:53:18.799
Rob: it like that.

00:53:19.130 --> 00:53:23.240
Kevin: it was a long buildup to
a punchline That was pretty good.

00:53:23.600 --> 00:53:26.240
I don't, I won't spoil it for people
who haven't seen it, but let's just

00:53:26.245 --> 00:53:30.380
say this is the only episode of The
Animated Series that has confirmed kills

00:53:30.559 --> 00:53:32.109
Rob: Yes, that's right.

00:53:32.224 --> 00:53:36.845
Kevin: Yeah, but it took a long time
to get to where it was going and it

00:53:36.845 --> 00:53:40.714
was fairly repetitive in the process,
but I did like many of the elements.

00:53:41.227 --> 00:53:41.717
Rob: Yeah.

00:53:41.717 --> 00:53:42.157
Yeah.

00:53:42.162 --> 00:53:45.287
There were elements I really liked about
it, and that's one that definitely stuck

00:53:45.287 --> 00:53:49.641
out to me of the away mission and the
writing definitely seemed a lot, more

00:53:49.641 --> 00:53:52.451
confident and definitely understood
the characters of Star Trek more.

00:53:53.077 --> 00:53:54.217
Kevin: Not one of your two best though.

00:53:54.561 --> 00:53:55.731
Rob: Not one of my two best.

00:53:55.731 --> 00:53:57.891
The next one is one of my best.

00:53:58.297 --> 00:54:01.097
Kevin: Number 15 I of the beholder air,

00:54:01.281 --> 00:54:04.855
Rob: Oh, look, I'm a huge Twilight
Zone fan and I love those type of

00:54:04.855 --> 00:54:07.135
episodes where it's like a step in.

00:54:07.555 --> 00:54:10.735
The bazaar and the odd for 20
minutes or so, and then you get out.

00:54:11.095 --> 00:54:14.695
And so this one explores, something
that's been explored in the Twilight

00:54:14.695 --> 00:54:17.474
Zone before is, humans in a zoo.

00:54:18.350 --> 00:54:19.180
Kevin: Snuffleupagusses.

00:54:19.394 --> 00:54:21.164
Rob: The, and I love the creatures.

00:54:21.164 --> 00:54:23.816
I love the big red
snuffaluffagus characters.

00:54:23.846 --> 00:54:27.626
And even the baby was huge
and Scotty having to learn

00:54:27.626 --> 00:54:28.946
how to communicate with it.

00:54:29.030 --> 00:54:36.340
And a lot of talk about these creatures
are eons old and that, that great

00:54:36.411 --> 00:54:40.761
human entitlement of going, but when
zoos are kept for animals, he goes

00:54:40.778 --> 00:54:41.040
Kevin: guess

00:54:41.338 --> 00:54:41.938
Rob: Guess what?

00:54:41.938 --> 00:54:44.908
To this species, we are the animals.

00:54:44.975 --> 00:54:49.225
And just things like always observing
them and could get inside Kirk's mind.

00:54:49.225 --> 00:54:54.985
There was great oh my head acting
of uh, Shatner, which was great and

00:54:54.985 --> 00:54:59.135
the, and at the end they go cuz they
were telepathic uh, snuffeupagi.

00:54:59.655 --> 00:55:03.786
And that moment of going, they, we might
be ready for them or we might be ready

00:55:03.786 --> 00:55:06.786
for them in two or three millennia.

00:55:07.208 --> 00:55:07.268
Kevin: Yeah.

00:55:08.316 --> 00:55:10.506
Rob: And Kirk goes well, there'll
be somebody else's problem.

00:55:11.183 --> 00:55:15.563
Kevin: So much of what this episode does
ends up being cliche in Star Trek, but

00:55:15.563 --> 00:55:19.073
it was fresh at this time, and I agree.

00:55:19.073 --> 00:55:20.423
This is a great episode.

00:55:20.423 --> 00:55:21.143
I love.

00:55:21.143 --> 00:55:23.213
This is a Kirk Spock McCoy adventure.

00:55:23.303 --> 00:55:27.923
The three mains beam down, and
there's plenty of bickering and

00:55:27.923 --> 00:55:29.603
it is entertaining throughout.

00:55:29.783 --> 00:55:31.613
The writing here was pitch perfect.

00:55:31.613 --> 00:55:36.023
This, to me, is the best characterization
that we get in the animated

00:55:36.231 --> 00:55:38.841
Rob: Very much so, and they're
all playing their roles.

00:55:38.841 --> 00:55:41.212
So you've got, Kirk
going, but what is this?

00:55:41.245 --> 00:55:42.626
And and Spock going.

00:55:42.651 --> 00:55:45.006
This is, not everything's
all about you, Jim.

00:55:45.133 --> 00:55:46.753
And McCoy going, whoa, shut up.

00:55:46.753 --> 00:55:47.683
You man.

00:55:47.683 --> 00:55:48.433
You square.

00:55:48.455 --> 00:55:51.335
Kevin: I admire the restraint
never to let us hear the

00:55:51.335 --> 00:55:53.915
telepathic thoughts of the aliens.

00:55:53.920 --> 00:55:55.565
Like we're told they're telepathic.

00:55:55.805 --> 00:56:00.092
There are long lingering shots of
these two pink snuffleupagus on the

00:56:00.097 --> 00:56:04.022
screen looking really silly, but
they're having deep thoughts at each

00:56:04.022 --> 00:56:09.442
other, and we are left to imagine
what deep words they're exchanging.

00:56:10.022 --> 00:56:15.525
A, a less confident show would've employed
someone to do an echoy voice with a bit

00:56:15.525 --> 00:56:20.145
of theramin behind it to tell us what
they were saying, but instead, it's left

00:56:20.145 --> 00:56:22.395
to the imagination and it elevates it

00:56:22.739 --> 00:56:23.129
Rob: Oh.

00:56:24.119 --> 00:56:27.784
And it was that for me, it was the perfect
representation of the animation that

00:56:27.784 --> 00:56:32.974
you would never get creatures that size
and that design who are so non-human

00:56:33.164 --> 00:56:35.027
in the live action Original Series.

00:56:35.027 --> 00:56:39.677
So to have that moment of these are
huge, you see the scale of them.

00:56:39.738 --> 00:56:44.281
And I love that, that classic
cliche sci-fi thing of going

00:56:44.501 --> 00:56:46.081
we're the, we're not animals.

00:56:46.141 --> 00:56:47.808
Well to them, we are.

00:56:47.808 --> 00:56:48.858
That, that type of stuff.

00:56:49.038 --> 00:56:49.818
That type of stuff I love.

00:56:50.719 --> 00:56:51.139
Kevin: Yeah.

00:56:51.169 --> 00:56:51.559
Okay.

00:56:51.559 --> 00:56:53.175
So that's one of your first best.

00:56:53.175 --> 00:56:53.865
I agree with that.

00:56:53.991 --> 00:56:55.071
That's a four outta five.

00:56:55.071 --> 00:56:55.911
It's right up there.

00:56:55.911 --> 00:56:57.681
It's not quite my best though.

00:56:57.800 --> 00:57:02.030
Number 16, The Jihad, our
season finale for season one.

00:57:02.059 --> 00:57:03.889
Rob: From the highest of highs.

00:57:04.294 --> 00:57:07.534
We go to the lowest of lows.

00:57:08.134 --> 00:57:10.614
This was my clunker.

00:57:10.790 --> 00:57:11.930
Kevin: Okay, go for it.

00:57:11.930 --> 00:57:12.470
I want to hear all

00:57:12.634 --> 00:57:16.866
Rob: Um, Look, I love the idea of a
range of aliens trapped on a planet.

00:57:16.926 --> 00:57:17.646
All different types.

00:57:17.646 --> 00:57:23.291
So we had bird boy, we had green
slug, we had monobrowed Amazon woman.

00:57:23.343 --> 00:57:29.687
But it's, even with the title
Jihad and with the grossly outdated

00:57:29.754 --> 00:57:31.314
gender politics stuff there.

00:57:31.390 --> 00:57:35.228
And it's just like trying to do
this whole epic quest type thing.

00:57:35.228 --> 00:57:38.458
And, but it just seemed to going
from we're just walking and, oh, now

00:57:38.458 --> 00:57:40.962
we're flying, now we're driving and

00:57:40.963 --> 00:57:42.703
Kevin: Here comes the lava drive faster.

00:57:43.002 --> 00:57:44.472
Rob: Now, oh, here's the sachet.

00:57:44.506 --> 00:57:48.006
And and, you could spot the, the
betrayer a million miles away.

00:57:48.014 --> 00:57:50.324
So there, there's a lot
of awkward stuff in there,

00:57:50.641 --> 00:57:54.721
Kevin: This is the most Saturday
morning cartoon episode of the series.

00:57:54.721 --> 00:57:59.786
And I think it, it speaks volumes that
makes it your clunker in many ways.

00:57:59.884 --> 00:58:04.774
This has, oh, let's go up on the hill and
push that boulder down to block the lava.

00:58:04.774 --> 00:58:09.091
Like it is very comic
like pulp comic stuff.

00:58:09.861 --> 00:58:11.375
Very broad strokes.

00:58:11.375 --> 00:58:15.068
And the brief was apparently
like, make as much adventure

00:58:15.068 --> 00:58:17.318
happen in 30 minutes as you can.

00:58:17.422 --> 00:58:22.520
Rob: And despite DC Fontana's best
efforts to keep out the sex, the the

00:58:22.520 --> 00:58:27.491
creepy Amazon woman constantly just
going, Hey, Kirk, how you going, there?

00:58:27.701 --> 00:58:27.971
You are.

00:58:28.087 --> 00:58:31.707
Kevin: The most charitable reading
I can give of it is that it was

00:58:31.740 --> 00:58:39.614
boundary smashing at the time that,
that the creepy person cracking on

00:58:39.614 --> 00:58:42.224
to other characters would be a woman.

00:58:42.614 --> 00:58:43.104
What?!

00:58:43.574 --> 00:58:48.839
Like that's as charitable a take I can,
as I can get on this, but it feels frankly

00:58:48.839 --> 00:58:50.893
out of place on a show for children.

00:58:51.072 --> 00:58:51.462
Rob: You're right.

00:58:51.462 --> 00:58:52.798
It's very much like Tar.

00:58:52.828 --> 00:58:55.846
It is the equivalent of Kate
Blanchard's performance in Tar.

00:58:55.861 --> 00:58:57.061
It should be given an Oscar.

00:58:57.091 --> 00:58:57.385
What?

00:58:57.414 --> 00:58:57.924
No.

00:58:58.224 --> 00:59:02.424
I was at Tar, was originally written
as a male character and then they

00:59:02.429 --> 00:59:06.449
went, no, let's flip it and make this
horrible conductor type, abusing their

00:59:06.909 --> 00:59:08.661
position of power, make it a woman.

00:59:08.723 --> 00:59:09.983
Kevin: I don't get that reference.

00:59:09.983 --> 00:59:13.733
So on the one hand I kind of wanna watch
it, but your testimonial is not strong.

00:59:13.738 --> 00:59:14.633
So maybe I won't.

00:59:15.111 --> 00:59:17.581
Rob: Oh, look it's getting all
the acclaim in all the regard.

00:59:17.607 --> 00:59:19.852
Unlike Jihad, the episode.

00:59:20.664 --> 00:59:25.464
Kevin: Much was made at the time of the
mature themes in this episode and it

00:59:25.464 --> 00:59:33.254
wasn't the uh, super randy woman, it
was the talk of Holy Wars and Jihads

00:59:33.259 --> 00:59:39.381
and these, which were very political
concepts at the time in the world, and

00:59:39.501 --> 00:59:41.777
kids being presented with those ideas.

00:59:41.786 --> 00:59:43.705
Mommy, daddy, what's a Holy War?

00:59:43.735 --> 00:59:48.972
Like the makers of the show were feeling
like they were running some risks with

00:59:48.972 --> 00:59:50.742
prompting those kind of conversations at

00:59:50.936 --> 00:59:51.926
Rob: You, yes.

00:59:52.016 --> 00:59:56.726
And it seems, I don't know if it's
my sensitivity or white guilt or

00:59:56.726 --> 00:59:59.906
anything like that, but those type
of terminologies and stuff like that

01:00:00.086 --> 01:00:04.986
seem to be in better suited in the
hands of, of people connected with

01:00:04.986 --> 01:00:09.010
that culture as opposed to white
culture going, ah, let's do this way.

01:00:09.140 --> 01:00:12.087
Kevin: And also, it's one thing to
decide to take a swing at mature

01:00:12.087 --> 01:00:17.727
concepts like that, but to do it in
such a juvenile episode of television,

01:00:18.177 --> 01:00:19.827
it doesn't do it any justice.

01:00:19.841 --> 01:00:23.261
Rob: have it in the background while
you're focusing on let's push this

01:00:23.261 --> 01:00:25.091
boulder, let's chase this lava.

01:00:25.147 --> 01:00:27.591
I did like the, the
bird-like creatures, though.

01:00:27.591 --> 01:00:31.530
I wish they could appear in some
way, shape or form in live action.

01:00:32.071 --> 01:00:35.351
Kevin: It really stood out to me against
all the other episodes of The Animated

01:00:35.371 --> 01:00:39.961
Series that like they brought all
their guest cast into this one episode.

01:00:40.021 --> 01:00:44.131
Most of the other episodes of The
Animated Series, there are the familiar

01:00:44.131 --> 01:00:48.991
voices and then there are the episodic
characters that are also voiced

01:00:48.991 --> 01:00:50.941
by the same actors, more or less.

01:00:51.091 --> 01:00:53.281
You might have one unfamiliar voice.

01:00:53.731 --> 01:00:58.718
This one, it was like, let's take let's
take Kirk and is it Kirk and Spock?

01:00:59.648 --> 01:00:59.978
Yeah.

01:01:00.008 --> 01:01:03.128
Let's take Kirk and Spock and
surround them by a bunch of strangers.

01:01:03.833 --> 01:01:07.943
That are all voiced by guest actors
that, like what I wrote here is were

01:01:07.943 --> 01:01:09.833
they cheaper than our regular cast?

01:01:09.876 --> 01:01:14.766
This seemed to me like what the intent
for the series originally must have been.

01:01:15.066 --> 01:01:17.856
That you get Kirk and Spock
and you surround them with

01:01:17.861 --> 01:01:19.056
some voices of the week.

01:01:19.220 --> 01:01:23.484
Rob: And do a lot pushing over boulders
and chasing lava and all that type

01:01:23.484 --> 01:01:28.044
of fun adventure stuff, as opposed
to let's do hardcore sci-fi stuff.

01:01:28.044 --> 01:01:31.464
So maybe it's also the end
of season type of splurge.

01:01:31.720 --> 01:01:32.080
Kevin: Yeah.

01:01:32.080 --> 01:01:35.785
Maybe it was the, maybe they had some
guest stars they made promises to.

01:01:37.525 --> 01:01:39.025
They'd already been paid and they

01:01:39.038 --> 01:01:39.648
Rob: summer.

01:01:40.008 --> 01:01:42.338
Somebody else's wife or
husband or loved one.

01:01:42.488 --> 01:01:42.818
Yeah.

01:01:44.635 --> 01:01:48.835
Kevin: Season two, number
one, The Pirates of Orion.

01:01:49.435 --> 01:01:51.535
This is one of my two favorites.

01:01:52.058 --> 01:01:53.064
Rob: explain.

01:01:53.064 --> 01:01:57.826
Kevin: The opening of this episode is
that there is a disease on board the

01:01:57.826 --> 01:02:00.496
Enterprise, but McCoy says, I cured it.

01:02:00.796 --> 01:02:01.966
It's fine.

01:02:02.476 --> 01:02:04.456
I'm really proud of myself.

01:02:04.786 --> 01:02:09.646
Just recording a log as my victory
lap for having cured this disease.

01:02:09.796 --> 01:02:15.076
And then Spock drops out cold
on the bridge of the Enterprise.

01:02:15.406 --> 01:02:19.274
Turns out Vulcans are not
as immune to this disease as

01:02:19.274 --> 01:02:20.714
McCoy thought they would be.

01:02:20.741 --> 01:02:23.891
Kirk calls for help from sick
bay, even though McCoy is standing

01:02:23.896 --> 01:02:28.211
next to him on the bridge, which I
thought was especially cold of McCoy.

01:02:31.331 --> 01:02:35.741
I'm sure it was a mistake, but
what my read of it is that Kirk

01:02:35.741 --> 01:02:39.221
knows that McCoy is not gonna lift
a finger to save Spock's life.

01:02:39.286 --> 01:02:43.306
Low budget animation jank aside, I
thought this was a strong episode.

01:02:43.306 --> 01:02:46.406
It would've gone down like a lead
balloon with the kids watching

01:02:46.411 --> 01:02:47.986
Saturday morning cartoons, though.

01:02:48.616 --> 01:02:52.396
But it was clearly a team determined
to make more Star Trek at any cost.

01:02:52.488 --> 01:03:01.098
The fight to save Spock life by engaging
in a subtle manipulation of these

01:03:01.098 --> 01:03:03.918
Orion pirates who needed to save face.

01:03:04.518 --> 01:03:09.138
There are like three concepts
there that most kids watching, it's

01:03:09.138 --> 01:03:10.758
gonna go straight over their heads.

01:03:11.208 --> 01:03:14.838
The idea that the Orion's
have stolen something and we

01:03:14.838 --> 01:03:16.218
know they've stolen something.

01:03:16.368 --> 01:03:19.698
They know, we know they've stolen
something, but neither party

01:03:19.698 --> 01:03:24.138
can say you've stolen something
because then Spock will die.

01:03:24.378 --> 01:03:29.688
Instead, Kirk has to go through
this charade of letting them off the

01:03:29.688 --> 01:03:31.758
hook and preserve their neutrality.

01:03:31.777 --> 01:03:35.894
And then eventually they beam down to
a planet and have a fist fight which

01:03:35.947 --> 01:03:37.870
every good Star Trek episode needs.

01:03:37.870 --> 01:03:43.089
The bomb is diffused at the last minute by
b beaming the dilithium on board the ship.

01:03:43.529 --> 01:03:48.053
And then the Orion captain tries to
commit suicide with a cyanide capsule

01:03:48.053 --> 01:03:49.883
and they prevent him from doing it.

01:03:50.543 --> 01:03:55.433
So he has, he no longer has any
reason for his ship to self-destruct.

01:03:55.433 --> 01:03:59.153
His ship is preparing to self-destruct,
so there is no evidence of

01:03:59.153 --> 01:04:02.153
their guilt, but they've managed
to capture the captain alive.

01:04:02.153 --> 01:04:06.443
So the captain calls the ship and says,
cancel the self-destruct we've lost.

01:04:06.833 --> 01:04:11.596
There is this is such it is more
complex than nine out of 10 Star

01:04:11.596 --> 01:04:13.786
Trek episodes, and I am here for it.

01:04:13.950 --> 01:04:17.340
Rob: There's a lot of, yeah, and
showing that the cleverness of Kirk to

01:04:17.700 --> 01:04:21.630
manipulate and play the situation while
still working on the clock of going,

01:04:21.630 --> 01:04:23.377
we've gotta save we've gotta save Spock.

01:04:23.377 --> 01:04:24.097
So there's a lot there.

01:04:24.102 --> 01:04:28.243
And the culture of, the Orion Pirates
and their honor and all that type of

01:04:28.243 --> 01:04:32.932
stuff to have explored this heady stuff
for a 25 minute animated kid show.

01:04:33.428 --> 01:04:34.448
Kevin: Yeah, absolutely.

01:04:34.688 --> 01:04:38.678
This episode was written by the
youngest writer in Star Trek history.

01:04:38.678 --> 01:04:43.118
He was a 19 year old college
student when he submitted his

01:04:43.118 --> 01:04:46.118
script on typed on loose leaf paper.

01:04:46.628 --> 01:04:49.566
I'm showing a picture of
that to Rob right now.

01:04:49.611 --> 01:04:50.650
It's amazing.

01:04:50.682 --> 01:04:52.946
The creators of the show
called him up and said, huh we

01:04:52.951 --> 01:04:54.416
haven't seen your name around.

01:04:54.472 --> 01:04:55.492
What else have you written?

01:04:55.492 --> 01:04:57.772
And he is like, uh, I'm a college student.

01:04:57.772 --> 01:04:59.182
I've never written anything in my life.

01:04:59.182 --> 01:05:00.442
And they said, that's fine.

01:05:00.472 --> 01:05:01.342
It's a great script.

01:05:01.971 --> 01:05:04.087
Rob: And that's that's Howard Weinstein.

01:05:04.428 --> 01:05:06.128
Kevin: Yeah, it's awesome.

01:05:06.727 --> 01:05:09.726
Rob: Well done Howard on a
great opener for season two.

01:05:10.327 --> 01:05:10.582
Kevin: Yeah.

01:05:10.630 --> 01:05:11.320
I loved it.

01:05:11.320 --> 01:05:13.180
The Pirates of Orion, they look weird.

01:05:13.240 --> 01:05:17.080
Like they are, there is a, you could
tell that there was a changing of

01:05:17.080 --> 01:05:21.160
the guard in the creative leadership
because they mispronounce Orion as

01:05:22.044 --> 01:05:22.569
Rob: That's right.

01:05:22.569 --> 01:05:26.404
Kevin: Even though they are by all
by all accounts, meant to be the same

01:05:26.404 --> 01:05:29.824
green skin aliens that we have seen
previously in Star Trek history, and

01:05:29.824 --> 01:05:32.194
that we now see in Star Trek Discovery.

01:05:32.194 --> 01:05:37.871
But they're all wearing like swim, like
scuba suits and masks and goggles in

01:05:37.871 --> 01:05:40.121
this episode for no apparent reason.

01:05:40.181 --> 01:05:42.161
And they have blue skin instead of green.

01:05:42.581 --> 01:05:48.257
But but yeah it's let, that's the jank,
that's the low budget jank I was talking

01:05:48.257 --> 01:05:53.129
about, but underneath that surface
is a really strong Star Trek script.

01:05:53.188 --> 01:05:53.698
Rob: And that's the thing.

01:05:53.698 --> 01:05:57.207
That's how I missed the connection because
it's mispronounced an they're blue and

01:05:57.207 --> 01:06:01.017
I'm there going, yeah, I missed the
whole, it went completely over my head.

01:06:01.077 --> 01:06:02.517
No, they're the Orions, remember the

01:06:02.863 --> 01:06:05.622
Kevin: They're the
they're the Tendi Orions.

01:06:05.696 --> 01:06:09.266
Rob: Uh, and yeah, and like we
talked about all the Orions, now

01:06:09.326 --> 01:06:13.116
all the males are like really
buff, apparently square jawed.

01:06:13.136 --> 01:06:13.346
Yeah.

01:06:13.429 --> 01:06:14.929
Kevin: Episode two, bEM.

01:06:15.378 --> 01:06:15.768
Rob: Yes.

01:06:15.768 --> 01:06:17.208
I don't remember much about

01:06:17.959 --> 01:06:20.389
Kevin: This is the alien
that can split himself into

01:06:21.378 --> 01:06:21.798
Rob: Yes.

01:06:22.128 --> 01:06:24.149
Oh, that's like the top goes off running

01:06:24.235 --> 01:06:28.400
Kevin: And we've had a return
of that species in Lower Decks.

01:06:28.400 --> 01:06:31.598
We've had a Lower Decks
guest star that is, yeah.

01:06:31.598 --> 01:06:34.815
He's like the the trainer who
is putting the crew through

01:06:34.815 --> 01:06:36.855
the holo deck simulations.

01:06:37.545 --> 01:06:43.375
And we can see that his species has been
assessing the skills of Starfleet crews

01:06:43.395 --> 01:06:49.750
for many years by that time, uh, tracing
way back to this episode in which yeah

01:06:49.800 --> 01:06:54.900
he deliberately gets himself captured by
some primitive aliens who are referred

01:06:54.900 --> 01:06:58.148
to as Aborigines in this in this episode.

01:06:58.236 --> 01:06:59.256
Rob: That's right.

01:06:59.256 --> 01:07:00.172
I do remember that.

01:07:00.178 --> 01:07:01.942
Kevin: And yeah, gets himself trapped.

01:07:01.962 --> 01:07:05.660
And then when Kirk and Spock get
captured as well, trying to rescue

01:07:05.660 --> 01:07:08.295
him, he goes, wow you are incompetent.

01:07:08.353 --> 01:07:10.093
This was a test and you failed.

01:07:11.682 --> 01:07:12.012
Rob: That's right.

01:07:12.012 --> 01:07:14.308
And they need to figure out, because
they don't know what the first,

01:07:14.308 --> 01:07:16.078
that he can separate his body

01:07:16.214 --> 01:07:16.724
Kevin: That's right.

01:07:16.724 --> 01:07:16.994
Yeah.

01:07:16.994 --> 01:07:20.984
So he gets through the bramble bush by
separating, he's a colony character.

01:07:21.164 --> 01:07:25.240
There's the funny gag in the start where
they beam down and Kirk and Spock beam

01:07:25.240 --> 01:07:27.250
down over water and fall in the water.

01:07:27.250 --> 01:07:30.400
So he jumps in and then he
disconnects his bottom half to

01:07:30.400 --> 01:07:32.020
go and steal their communicators.

01:07:32.153 --> 01:07:32.423
Rob: Right.

01:07:32.423 --> 01:07:32.723
Yes.

01:07:32.723 --> 01:07:34.662
And then the little tentacle
things come out and take it out.

01:07:34.662 --> 01:07:37.117
It goes we don't have our
communicators anymore, Spock.

01:07:37.254 --> 01:07:37.794
Kevin: Yeah.

01:07:37.854 --> 01:07:43.634
There's some good parts here, but it adds
up to a pretty weak episode in my mind.

01:07:43.928 --> 01:07:44.888
Rob: I'd go with that too,

01:07:44.971 --> 01:07:45.211
Kevin: some

01:07:46.505 --> 01:07:48.235
Rob: because I barely remembered it.

01:07:48.235 --> 01:07:49.705
You explained it went, oh, that's right.

01:07:49.705 --> 01:07:50.455
I do remember that.

01:07:51.041 --> 01:07:54.491
Kevin: There's a, this is a stronger
example of Uhura taking command, cuz

01:07:54.491 --> 01:07:59.531
she does take command and then Scotty
wants to go down and rescue Kirk

01:07:59.531 --> 01:08:05.351
and Spock against orders and Uhura,
speaking to a superior officer says,

01:08:05.351 --> 01:08:07.451
Nope, I'm, I was left in command.

01:08:07.451 --> 01:08:08.711
We have our orders.

01:08:08.861 --> 01:08:11.201
We are not deviating from those orders.

01:08:11.519 --> 01:08:14.444
She quotes regulations to
Scotty and it's a power move.

01:08:14.444 --> 01:08:15.374
It's really good.

01:08:15.454 --> 01:08:21.793
Uhura or Nichelle Nichols also plays the
voice of the sparkly cloud god creature

01:08:21.793 --> 01:08:26.705
at the end that's really upset that they
are all uh, interfering with her children.

01:08:26.869 --> 01:08:27.439
Rob: That's right.

01:08:27.439 --> 01:08:28.069
Yes.

01:08:28.295 --> 01:08:28.655
Kevin: Yeah.

01:08:28.725 --> 01:08:32.055
So Nichelle Nichols gets a good
outing in this one, but that's about

01:08:32.055 --> 01:08:33.892
all I can say for this episode,

01:08:34.206 --> 01:08:37.116
Rob: So next up we go
to The Practical Joker.

01:08:37.432 --> 01:08:39.082
Kevin: The Practical Joker.

01:08:39.246 --> 01:08:43.096
Rob: Now for me, this was another
one of my uh, top choices.

01:08:43.392 --> 01:08:44.932
Kevin: Ooh, wow.

01:08:44.962 --> 01:08:45.442
Okay.

01:08:45.488 --> 01:08:50.148
Rob: I really liked the silliness
of the practical jokes and everyone

01:08:50.153 --> 01:08:54.488
laughing and the fact that great
reveal of it's actually the ship,

01:08:54.548 --> 01:08:59.774
it's the computer, the, the, the, The
computer has, developed, gone awry.

01:08:59.804 --> 01:09:02.744
And it, yeah, there's, there
was just something in it.

01:09:02.836 --> 01:09:04.426
It was a breath of fresh air for me.

01:09:04.426 --> 01:09:09.477
And I loved that type of,
that Star Trek awkward.

01:09:09.927 --> 01:09:12.777
It's sort like their approach
to sex, is their also their app

01:09:13.257 --> 01:09:14.727
approach to a sense of humor?

01:09:14.727 --> 01:09:17.517
I'm, they're going, I don't
know if anybody on this

01:09:17.517 --> 01:09:19.317
crew has ever laughed before

01:09:20.583 --> 01:09:20.933
Kevin: Ha.

01:09:20.933 --> 01:09:21.173
Ha.

01:09:21.173 --> 01:09:21.413
Ha.

01:09:23.037 --> 01:09:26.037
Rob: They have never used those
muscles in their body at all.

01:09:26.367 --> 01:09:29.210
But there was something, cute
and clever about this regimented,

01:09:29.210 --> 01:09:31.012
serious, exploration team,

01:09:31.448 --> 01:09:32.018
Kevin: I agree.

01:09:32.023 --> 01:09:36.278
This is the only time we got to hear
some of our original series crew laugh,

01:09:37.328 --> 01:09:39.128
and some of them I don't need to hear it

01:09:39.412 --> 01:09:40.102
Rob: Never again.

01:09:40.192 --> 01:09:40.462
No.

01:09:40.462 --> 01:09:42.952
That that one, one was too many, but

01:09:42.999 --> 01:09:43.479
Kevin: I agree.

01:09:43.479 --> 01:09:44.439
This is a fresh one.

01:09:44.559 --> 01:09:51.189
I think this for me is the most successful
example of what Star Trek, if written as a

01:09:51.189 --> 01:09:53.919
Saturday morning cartoon, could have been.

01:09:54.112 --> 01:09:54.772
Rob: Yes.

01:09:55.749 --> 01:09:57.669
Kevin: It was not taking
itself too seriously.

01:09:57.669 --> 01:09:58.659
It was having fun.

01:09:59.409 --> 01:10:03.489
It was playing with very broad
strokes, but that, that worked here.

01:10:03.572 --> 01:10:11.672
The ship creates a blow up balloon version
of the Enterprise that's much larger

01:10:11.942 --> 01:10:14.102
in order to scare off the Romulans.

01:10:14.552 --> 01:10:15.482
And it works!

01:10:16.522 --> 01:10:19.935
Rob: But and the episode does end
with an awkward thing of the Romulans'

01:10:19.955 --> 01:10:22.655
computer starts getting the same thing

01:10:22.851 --> 01:10:24.411
Kevin: The Trouble with Tribbles all over

01:10:24.665 --> 01:10:24.995
Rob: Yeah.

01:10:24.995 --> 01:10:26.697
And they do the whole, oh Romulan

01:10:26.716 --> 01:10:28.546
Kevin: We'll tell them
how to fix it later.

01:10:30.419 --> 01:10:33.299
Rob: Now, was it in this one where
they were, there were some people

01:10:33.299 --> 01:10:35.849
in something like a Yeah, yeah,

01:10:35.941 --> 01:10:40.021
Kevin: This, I wrote an impressively
full formed division of the holodeck,

01:10:40.381 --> 01:10:43.561
unlike the other week when we were
talking about holodeck episodes.

01:10:43.561 --> 01:10:46.410
And I said, the first couple of Star
Trek, the next generations where

01:10:46.415 --> 01:10:50.760
they did a holodeck story, there was
a lot of characters standing around

01:10:50.820 --> 01:10:56.880
in wonder at the technology, and
the story was put on pause for a few

01:10:56.880 --> 01:11:00.940
moments while people said, wow, it is
amazing that this is even possible.

01:11:02.000 --> 01:11:06.960
They moved past that much more quickly in
this episode into making it normal for the

01:11:06.960 --> 01:11:09.993
characters and therefore magical for us.

01:11:10.442 --> 01:11:11.192
Rob: Yes.

01:11:11.324 --> 01:11:12.472
Yeah it covered a lot.

01:11:12.477 --> 01:11:18.272
It had that holodeck, it had the, I like
a mischievous computer reveal as well.

01:11:18.289 --> 01:11:19.019
Like it's you.

01:11:19.609 --> 01:11:22.849
The ship, the thing that keeps
us safe is actually turning

01:11:22.849 --> 01:11:25.510
against us is a wonderful idea.

01:11:25.720 --> 01:11:29.650
And yes, hearing these humanoids
do something called laugh for

01:11:29.650 --> 01:11:31.870
the first time ever is a joy.

01:11:32.350 --> 01:11:33.959
So yeah, I really dug it.

01:11:33.959 --> 01:11:36.089
I liked the breath of
fresh air that it was.

01:11:36.389 --> 01:11:39.620
And yeah, that's one I'd go, I'd
actually go back and watch that again.

01:11:39.881 --> 01:11:40.371
Kevin: Yeah.

01:11:40.371 --> 01:11:40.919
Great.

01:11:40.919 --> 01:11:41.980
Episode four.

01:11:42.769 --> 01:11:44.269
Rob: This was a good one as well.

01:11:44.390 --> 01:11:45.800
Kevin: This is my other favorite

01:11:46.059 --> 01:11:46.479
Rob: Hey

01:11:47.797 --> 01:11:53.677
Kevin: Uh, Albatross, in which
McCoy previously cured a PLA or

01:11:53.677 --> 01:11:55.867
worked to cure a plague on a planet.

01:11:56.047 --> 01:11:59.857
And they come back expecting everything
will be fine, and everything does go

01:11:59.857 --> 01:12:05.497
fine until they're just about to beam
up, and they slap McCoy with a warrant.

01:12:05.856 --> 01:12:07.446
Rob: And they're so polite
about it going well.

01:12:07.446 --> 01:12:08.946
This has been a pleasure being here.

01:12:09.007 --> 01:12:12.217
Kevin: if you have a moment for one
more thing, you're under arrest.

01:12:12.631 --> 01:12:13.566
Rob: We have a letter for you.

01:12:13.776 --> 01:12:16.386
Oh, yes, you are public enemy number one.

01:12:16.747 --> 01:12:17.077
Kevin: That's right.

01:12:17.097 --> 01:12:19.017
We've been holding our
tongues this whole time.

01:12:19.136 --> 01:12:20.666
Rob: Oh, we can't believe
we're happening now.

01:12:20.666 --> 01:12:21.910
It's we've done so well.

01:12:23.761 --> 01:12:26.590
Kevin: Um, And, they capture McCoy.

01:12:26.590 --> 01:12:32.762
And basically this culture is reputed
for swift justice slash show trials.

01:12:33.152 --> 01:12:38.029
And the fear is that McCoy is going to
be put to death for his crimes against

01:12:38.092 --> 01:12:43.942
this species because he is accused
of basically causing uh, a, a plague

01:12:44.171 --> 01:12:44.591
Rob: Yes.

01:12:45.652 --> 01:12:47.752
Kevin: that wiped out their sister planet.

01:12:47.992 --> 01:12:54.239
And uh, the Enterprise racing the clock
goes to the sister planet in order to

01:12:54.244 --> 01:12:58.469
figure out, find some evidence of McCoy's
innocence, which they take on faith.

01:12:58.709 --> 01:13:03.290
And I kind of love that, that it like,
that is some classic Star Trek, where

01:13:03.440 --> 01:13:07.820
not a moment is spent contemplating
the possibility of McCoy's guilt.

01:13:07.825 --> 01:13:09.931
It is just like, well,
obviously he's a saint.

01:13:10.021 --> 01:13:11.341
Let's go fix this.

01:13:13.051 --> 01:13:14.911
Uh, friends looking after friends.

01:13:15.089 --> 01:13:15.509
Rob: They just go.

01:13:15.509 --> 01:13:16.709
Who would never do that type of thing.

01:13:16.709 --> 01:13:17.129
Let's go.

01:13:18.228 --> 01:13:20.148
Is this the episode
where everyone goes blue.

01:13:20.359 --> 01:13:24.632
Kevin: Yes, the plague is one of
the big symptoms of the plague

01:13:24.637 --> 01:13:29.012
supposedly, is that people change
color from this to that to the other.

01:13:29.012 --> 01:13:31.472
And it's like yellow to green to

01:13:31.731 --> 01:13:31.891
Rob: right.

01:13:32.131 --> 01:13:34.411
And it doesn't affect Spock
cuz of course it doesn't.

01:13:34.802 --> 01:13:35.342
Kevin: Of course it

01:13:35.611 --> 01:13:37.431
Rob: Cuz he is green blooded vulcan.

01:13:39.482 --> 01:13:43.581
Kevin: But yeah the ship flies
through a suspiciously colorful

01:13:43.586 --> 01:13:47.011
nebula on the way, and then it
flies through the same suspiciously

01:13:47.421 --> 01:13:48.811
colorful nebula on the way back.

01:13:49.321 --> 01:13:53.646
And it turns out  the changing
colors is a false symptom.

01:13:53.706 --> 01:13:57.936
Like it is something that happened at
the same time as the plague and was

01:13:57.936 --> 01:14:02.496
assumed to be a symptom of the plague,
but in fact, it was a red herring.

01:14:02.616 --> 01:14:06.576
And as soon as you told the computer to
stop trying to match against changing

01:14:06.581 --> 01:14:11.226
skin colors, the computer was able to
identify the plague and synthesize a cure.

01:14:11.496 --> 01:14:16.072
And I just really that is a plot twist
that feels like it could have been

01:14:16.072 --> 01:14:18.201
overdone, but I've never seen it before.

01:14:18.201 --> 01:14:21.275
Rob: And it's always good to have
a bit of the, the characters' past,

01:14:21.319 --> 01:14:25.178
and to talk about McCoy before he
was on the Enterprise or stuff like

01:14:25.178 --> 01:14:29.378
that is always good to have that
expansion of our characters so that

01:14:29.378 --> 01:14:33.368
how they lived and breathed before
they had the safety of the Enterprise.

01:14:33.804 --> 01:14:37.434
Kevin: It's not lost on me that my
two favorite episodes are racing

01:14:37.434 --> 01:14:40.884
the clock to save the life of
one of our favorite cast members.

01:14:40.884 --> 01:14:44.334
The, it was Spock in the Pirates
of Orion and it's McCoy here.

01:14:44.345 --> 01:14:49.766
That, that does seem a little over
done by this point, but it's okay.

01:14:49.766 --> 01:14:52.046
The series was about to end,
so I'll give it to them.

01:14:52.112 --> 01:14:52.602
Rob: Yeah.

01:14:52.639 --> 01:14:54.807
It is the, third last
episode, so well done.

01:14:55.603 --> 01:14:57.943
Kevin: I thought the aliens here
were really interesting too.

01:14:57.973 --> 01:15:03.010
Like they had the novelty of being
completely different from like they

01:15:03.010 --> 01:15:06.390
had, they were humanoids, but with
completely different proportions.

01:15:06.430 --> 01:15:12.192
Really big detailed heads and really
stompy elephant feet and It was, and

01:15:12.192 --> 01:15:15.702
yet they were very full formed, like
their face moved in interesting ways.

01:15:15.732 --> 01:15:19.632
They went beyond the novelty of let's
draw something funny looking, to,

01:15:19.632 --> 01:15:22.932
it felt like they actually thought
through how would these things move?

01:15:22.932 --> 01:15:24.552
How would these things speak?

01:15:24.611 --> 01:15:25.061
Rob: Yes.

01:15:25.066 --> 01:15:29.595
And their culture as well about the
politeness and the rituals and the rules

01:15:29.595 --> 01:15:32.859
that they follow and their guidelines that
they, we will have you on our planet for

01:15:32.859 --> 01:15:36.129
this time, but at the very last moment
we will bring out the thing that we've

01:15:36.134 --> 01:15:37.869
been wanting to do this entire time.

01:15:37.869 --> 01:15:39.292
And they're just like,
this is our procedure.

01:15:39.352 --> 01:15:40.432
This is how we do things.

01:15:40.673 --> 01:15:40.683
Kevin: Yeah.

01:15:42.172 --> 01:15:43.342
Rob: And great title as well.

01:15:43.342 --> 01:15:43.582
Great

01:15:43.763 --> 01:15:45.429
Kevin: oh, yeah, exactly.

01:15:45.487 --> 01:15:46.267
Rob: The final two.

01:15:46.748 --> 01:15:48.878
Kevin: How Sharper Than a Serpent's Tooth.

01:15:48.908 --> 01:15:50.198
Episode five.

01:15:50.348 --> 01:15:52.278
This is the one with Kukulkan.

01:15:52.298 --> 01:15:55.318
I said Quetzalcoatl before,
but I meant Kukulkan.

01:15:55.342 --> 01:15:56.452
Rob: That's, yes.

01:15:56.452 --> 01:16:01.066
And this was, yeah, they just happened
to have a crew member who is yeah.

01:16:01.066 --> 01:16:01.868
He has never shown up

01:16:02.125 --> 01:16:03.655
Kevin: He's a Native American,

01:16:03.968 --> 01:16:04.508
Rob: American.

01:16:04.508 --> 01:16:08.828
And it's related to his culture
and it takes the form of Kukulkan.

01:16:08.845 --> 01:16:12.925
Kevin: It seems that is what won them
the Emmy here is that representation

01:16:12.930 --> 01:16:17.815
of Native American culture in the
future was as groundbreaking as

01:16:17.995 --> 01:16:24.212
having a black woman at comms and a
Japanese man at at the helm like that.

01:16:24.542 --> 01:16:29.093
It was that level of breakthrough for
representation at the time that Native

01:16:29.093 --> 01:16:33.171
Americans had a place in the future
and they hadn't fully assimilated into

01:16:33.381 --> 01:16:35.475
white people culture in order to do it.

01:16:35.475 --> 01:16:38.170
Rob: And especially within American
culture, especially watching from

01:16:38.175 --> 01:16:42.724
the outside, Australia we are uh,
incredibly guilty of what we have done

01:16:42.724 --> 01:16:44.690
to our in, our First Nations culture.

01:16:44.690 --> 01:16:50.846
But as what I noticed from the outside
with the US it's, yeah the Native

01:16:50.846 --> 01:16:56.666
American cultures and nations ha are not
really, never have really had a voice.

01:16:56.671 --> 01:17:01.496
You know, it's always the, obviously
the injustices of the slave labor

01:17:01.496 --> 01:17:04.676
and all this, and slave slavery and
all that type of stuff, and the civil

01:17:04.676 --> 01:17:06.776
rights movement and white on black.

01:17:06.836 --> 01:17:11.226
But the the Native American culture
and race, like you hear the languages

01:17:11.227 --> 01:17:14.615
of all the Native American cultures
are dying out because the youth

01:17:14.620 --> 01:17:17.570
aren't learning it, and that's
happening here in Australia as well.

01:17:17.570 --> 01:17:21.882
And so to have, yeah, this represented
and it's a little bit clumsy with Chakotay

01:17:22.226 --> 01:17:25.826
um, how they try to bring that in and
he's not actually a Native American actor.

01:17:26.231 --> 01:17:29.790
So yes, I was a little bit I took a
step back at the start going, this

01:17:29.795 --> 01:17:32.012
seems white people trying to white write

01:17:32.303 --> 01:17:35.238
Kevin: Slightly tokenistic
in hindsight, for sure.

01:17:35.868 --> 01:17:38.278
Maybe more than slightly,
like they lay it on pretty

01:17:38.552 --> 01:17:41.432
Rob: As in it's, yeah,
it's the representation of

01:17:41.568 --> 01:17:42.948
Kevin: Never seen before, never

01:17:43.117 --> 01:17:43.982
Rob: seen again, that

01:17:43.998 --> 01:17:47.928
Kevin: and the plot of the episode
just happens to have to do with

01:17:48.288 --> 01:17:50.598
recognizing Native American culture.

01:17:50.912 --> 01:17:56.132
Rob: for the only time a Native American
crewman is on the deck at that time.

01:17:56.166 --> 01:17:57.966
So it is the definition of token.

01:17:57.966 --> 01:17:59.016
But yeah.

01:17:59.083 --> 01:18:01.976
Reflecting on it, it goes, look,
it's better that they did it

01:18:02.016 --> 01:18:05.361
as a tribute and an honor as
opposed to not doing it at all.

01:18:06.097 --> 01:18:07.957
Kevin: Also won a Peabody Award in

01:18:08.796 --> 01:18:10.558
Rob: Oh, that, Hey that's
nothing to be sniffed at.

01:18:10.949 --> 01:18:14.613
Kevin: But yeah, this episode has this
really cool looking ship that kind of

01:18:14.613 --> 01:18:20.149
looks like a dragon, and then it takes
on this holographic mantle around it

01:18:20.149 --> 01:18:21.949
that really makes it look like a dragon.

01:18:21.949 --> 01:18:27.169
And then it turns out it's
being flown by a flying dragon.

01:18:27.349 --> 01:18:32.733
So there's dragons upon dragons here
introduces himself as Kukulkan, returned

01:18:32.793 --> 01:18:36.763
to to take care of his children once more.

01:18:36.763 --> 01:18:38.623
The primitive people of Earth.

01:18:38.649 --> 01:18:41.619
He, sorry, he's daddy
stepped away, but he's back.

01:18:41.928 --> 01:18:42.428
Rob: had things to do.

01:18:42.433 --> 01:18:43.728
He had to go out for some cigarettes.

01:18:43.929 --> 01:18:49.337
Kevin: Yeah, but he will only not
kill you if you can solve his riddle.

01:18:49.367 --> 01:18:52.307
And he, he gave us all the parts
to solve the riddle before,

01:18:52.307 --> 01:18:54.767
and he was very disappointed
that we didn't put it together.

01:18:55.007 --> 01:18:56.867
He's gonna give us one more try.

01:18:56.868 --> 01:18:59.748
Now that you know there's a
riddle, see if you can solve it.

01:18:59.808 --> 01:19:01.728
And they solve it in like 30 seconds.

01:19:01.788 --> 01:19:06.548
It's like the most basic video
game riddle I've ever seen of

01:19:06.556 --> 01:19:13.096
there is a pyramid and there are
four mirrors on swiveling statues.

01:19:13.396 --> 01:19:14.836
What should I do?

01:19:15.406 --> 01:19:18.430
Let's try pointing the mirrors
at the top of the pyramid.

01:19:18.430 --> 01:19:19.300
You solved it.

01:19:19.480 --> 01:19:21.160
My children all is forgiven.

01:19:21.189 --> 01:19:21.909
Rob: You're a genius.

01:19:21.909 --> 01:19:22.839
You're a genius Kevin.

01:19:22.914 --> 01:19:24.612
Yeah, the the color
scheme for this is great.

01:19:24.612 --> 01:19:28.603
There's some beautiful, colors and
representation here to outside of the

01:19:28.603 --> 01:19:30.173
usual color schemes that they had.

01:19:30.179 --> 01:19:30.609
Yeah, there's.

01:19:30.660 --> 01:19:31.890
Kevin: of weird animals.

01:19:31.890 --> 01:19:35.740
Like he's got all the other primitive
animals stuck in like fantasy

01:19:35.740 --> 01:19:38.603
worlds in glass cages on his ship.

01:19:38.963 --> 01:19:43.692
So return of that primitive
species captured for a zoo like

01:19:43.807 --> 01:19:45.931
this is it's starting to get done.

01:19:45.931 --> 01:19:47.157
It's done after this.

01:19:47.157 --> 01:19:48.087
That's what I'm gonna say.

01:19:48.775 --> 01:19:51.205
Rob: Let's do one more episode
and then never do it again.

01:19:51.211 --> 01:19:58.184
Kevin: Of all the times Star Trek has
done the a God from ancient history

01:19:58.189 --> 01:20:00.554
turns out to have been an alien visitor.

01:20:00.584 --> 01:20:03.044
That trope, and we've seen it many times.

01:20:03.254 --> 01:20:05.144
This is one of the more successful ones.

01:20:05.263 --> 01:20:05.653
Rob: agree.

01:20:05.923 --> 01:20:07.584
And it's got dragons upon dragons.

01:20:07.584 --> 01:20:08.854
So the more dragons the better.

01:20:10.616 --> 01:20:15.956
Kevin: And the final episode, season two,
episode six, the Counter Clock Incident.

01:20:16.074 --> 01:20:20.392
Rob: Right with the famous old, captain
admiral, who we've never heard of

01:20:20.392 --> 01:20:24.952
before, shows up with his wife and they
start getting younger, but then they

01:20:25.463 --> 01:20:26.483
Kevin: Robert April.

01:20:26.512 --> 01:20:27.112
Rob: That's right.

01:20:27.112 --> 01:20:28.767
But he decides at the end no.

01:20:29.187 --> 01:20:30.717
We don't want to go young again.

01:20:30.897 --> 01:20:31.917
We want to be,

01:20:31.949 --> 01:20:33.389
Kevin: We've lived a good life.

01:20:33.449 --> 01:20:34.589
Make us old again.

01:20:34.707 --> 01:20:36.778
Rob: and because of their bravery.

01:20:37.048 --> 01:20:37.548
You know what?

01:20:37.548 --> 01:20:38.788
Because he's gonna be obsolete.

01:20:38.788 --> 01:20:42.204
Which is quite telling, considering
they explore that in the movies in the

01:20:42.204 --> 01:20:44.777
eighties about, yeah, about the obsolete

01:20:44.816 --> 01:20:49.706
Kevin: The old warrior captain ready
to retire, but needed for one more

01:20:49.735 --> 01:20:53.755
Rob: One more mission and determining
whether he's still worthwhile

01:20:53.760 --> 01:20:56.697
or whether he can still, get
back on that horse and ride in.

01:20:56.698 --> 01:20:57.332
And yes.

01:20:57.347 --> 01:21:01.681
Some of the dialogue is very awkward and
it matches the awkward animation of the

01:21:01.681 --> 01:21:05.821
couple standing there look like going,
yes, this is what we are doing now.

01:21:05.881 --> 01:21:07.621
And now we're relevant.

01:21:07.711 --> 01:21:09.211
No, we're getting younger.

01:21:09.211 --> 01:21:10.201
You are so beautiful.

01:21:12.047 --> 01:21:16.757
Kevin: Uh, Robert April was one of
the original names considered for

01:21:16.787 --> 01:21:19.457
Christopher Pike in the original pilot.

01:21:19.457 --> 01:21:23.451
So the the writer's Bible when the
series finally got off the ground,

01:21:23.451 --> 01:21:27.861
had some names of past captains of the
Enterprise, and Robert April was in there.

01:21:27.861 --> 01:21:32.574
So they were tapping like a little known
detail of Star Trek lore that hadn't made

01:21:32.574 --> 01:21:34.914
it to screen yet, which was great to see.

01:21:34.988 --> 01:21:36.818
Rob: Do we know his
positioning of where he is?

01:21:36.818 --> 01:21:37.118
Was he

01:21:37.224 --> 01:21:38.905
Kevin: He was before Pike it was

01:21:39.133 --> 01:21:40.328
Rob: he immediately before.

01:21:40.778 --> 01:21:41.138
Right.

01:21:41.168 --> 01:21:41.498
Okay.

01:21:41.498 --> 01:21:41.678
Cool.

01:21:41.678 --> 01:21:42.098
Cool, cool.

01:21:42.580 --> 01:21:43.030
Kevin: Yeah.

01:21:43.074 --> 01:21:44.094
I believe that's correct.

01:21:44.154 --> 01:21:47.091
And and we get to see Robert
April again in the premiere of

01:21:47.091 --> 01:21:49.081
Strange New Worlds last year.

01:21:49.081 --> 01:21:53.965
So the guy who's the black admiral who
comes to visit Christopher Pike on his

01:21:53.965 --> 01:21:56.725
ranch and say, your ship needs you, Chris.

01:21:56.782 --> 01:21:59.332
That is that is also Robert April.

01:21:59.481 --> 01:22:00.021
Rob: That's right.

01:22:00.021 --> 01:22:00.351
And he

01:22:00.412 --> 01:22:02.932
Kevin: did, uh, colorblind
casting and he's great.

01:22:03.051 --> 01:22:07.802
Rob: And he was in it again in a later one
when they're trying to do the negotiations

01:22:08.212 --> 01:22:10.395
and, and they're doing the checklist.

01:22:10.455 --> 01:22:12.538
So the B plot is the checklist.

01:22:12.598 --> 01:22:12.928
Yeah.

01:22:13.649 --> 01:22:17.966
Kevin: But the detail I had no idea
to expect was that his wife was Chief

01:22:17.966 --> 01:22:21.956
Medical Officer on the ship at the same
time, and they like served together.

01:22:22.075 --> 01:22:23.145
Rob: Well, there you go.

01:22:23.666 --> 01:22:27.109
Kevin: That's gotta break
some Starfleet HR regulations.

01:22:27.179 --> 01:22:30.927
Rob: For Gene Roddenberry, it's totally
part and parcel with writing Star Trek.

01:22:30.927 --> 01:22:31.467
Am I right?

01:22:31.467 --> 01:22:31.797
Getting you.

01:22:31.818 --> 01:22:36.267
Yeah, look for the, like as a final
episode, there's a lot more put into

01:22:36.747 --> 01:22:41.037
what a final episode is cuz we've
been so used to now what the modern

01:22:41.037 --> 01:22:43.857
definition of a season finale is.

01:22:44.157 --> 01:22:49.715
But at this point it was just a case of,
this was procedural television as in you

01:22:49.715 --> 01:22:54.305
write a story, you finish it, you finish
up your number of episodes for the season,

01:22:54.305 --> 01:22:57.785
and then you move on and you come back and
you do the exact same thing the next year.

01:22:57.995 --> 01:23:00.545
So there's no sort of like,
build up no story arcs.

01:23:00.545 --> 01:23:00.935
No.

01:23:01.355 --> 01:23:01.535
Yeah.

01:23:01.625 --> 01:23:06.725
Especially putting all that onus
onto a character we haven't seen of.

01:23:06.725 --> 01:23:11.294
It's beautiful to have that sort of
continuity tip of a hat, but they

01:23:11.294 --> 01:23:14.873
take the major focus in this final
episode with the lead characters

01:23:14.873 --> 01:23:16.303
taking more of a supporting role.

01:23:17.245 --> 01:23:19.285
Kevin: I think this episode came in hot.

01:23:19.347 --> 01:23:23.965
There's some notes in the book that I
have of Star Trek, The Official Guide

01:23:23.965 --> 01:23:28.381
to the Animated Series, where the writer
of this episode was on staff and knew

01:23:28.381 --> 01:23:32.881
there were six slots and knew they had
filled five of them, so he had to submit

01:23:32.881 --> 01:23:35.131
the script today or he might miss out.

01:23:36.301 --> 01:23:41.048
And so I think some of that rush
is visible in the final product.

01:23:41.122 --> 01:23:47.512
There is a lot of befuddling logic in the
reverse universe that they go into that

01:23:47.512 --> 01:23:50.082
causes everyone to start getting younger.

01:23:50.920 --> 01:23:56.890
It is very tortured, and my read of
it is all there just to justify the

01:23:56.890 --> 01:24:01.930
gag of getting to see younger and
younger versions of our, of familiar

01:24:01.930 --> 01:24:06.025
cast members Uhura and preteen Spock.

01:24:06.025 --> 01:24:10.814
It's like the vi the sight
gag is neat, but they have to

01:24:10.814 --> 01:24:12.734
take a real long walk to get

01:24:12.988 --> 01:24:13.661
Rob: Yes.

01:24:13.686 --> 01:24:13.821
Yeah.

01:24:13.881 --> 01:24:17.622
And it's, again, it's one of
those, childhood animation gimmick.

01:24:17.627 --> 01:24:20.596
So like now they're underwater,
so there's an underwater version.

01:24:20.596 --> 01:24:23.116
Now it's the baby version,
now it's the giant version.

01:24:23.596 --> 01:24:23.926
Yeah.

01:24:24.136 --> 01:24:28.156
So they didn't do a really do any body
swap ones, but they transformed the

01:24:28.161 --> 01:24:30.916
bodies into many different variations.

01:24:30.976 --> 01:24:35.136
Kevin: There is an echo of Discovery
like the latest season of Discovery,

01:24:35.136 --> 01:24:38.418
there are a number of scenes of
exposition where our characters all

01:24:38.418 --> 01:24:45.198
stand around a giant galactic map and
explain the plot that is about to happen.

01:24:45.588 --> 01:24:46.818
And that happens here.

01:24:46.818 --> 01:24:50.268
They stand in front of a giant
galactic map and they point at stars

01:24:50.268 --> 01:24:55.508
and they're like, that one's gonna
turn supernova in our universe at the

01:24:55.513 --> 01:24:59.827
same time as the other one is gonna
be a new star in the other universe.

01:24:59.827 --> 01:25:02.947
And if, because those two things are
happening at the same time, we'll be

01:25:02.947 --> 01:25:04.777
able to travel between those two points.

01:25:04.777 --> 01:25:06.278
And was like, oh gosh.

01:25:08.018 --> 01:25:10.808
I guess you explained it,
but it was not worth it.

01:25:10.852 --> 01:25:12.172
Rob: Yeah, don't overthink it too much.

01:25:12.177 --> 01:25:14.273
Just look at the pretty
colors and move on.

01:25:14.814 --> 01:25:17.334
Kevin: The ship flies
backwards for some reason.

01:25:17.364 --> 01:25:20.939
Like they could have done a lot
more waving away of the attempt at

01:25:20.939 --> 01:25:25.139
science here and created more time
for a satisfying story, I thought.

01:25:25.218 --> 01:25:25.788
Rob: I agree.

01:25:26.028 --> 01:25:28.253
And so it does leave a
bit of a, oh, that's it.

01:25:28.343 --> 01:25:28.913
Now we're done.

01:25:29.483 --> 01:25:29.843
Hmm.

01:25:30.444 --> 01:25:30.834
Kevin: Yeah.

01:25:30.856 --> 01:25:34.168
But baby Uhura sitting on
the bridge is pretty cute,

01:25:34.227 --> 01:25:34.917
Rob: It's very cute.

01:25:34.956 --> 01:25:35.436
Very cute.

01:25:35.436 --> 01:25:36.396
You cannot deny that.

01:25:37.688 --> 01:25:38.258
Kevin: So there you

01:25:38.406 --> 01:25:39.156
Rob: that is it.

01:25:39.161 --> 01:25:39.366
There's.

01:25:39.986 --> 01:25:40.806
Our blow by blow.

01:25:40.906 --> 01:25:44.475
Kevin: I I have a parting question for
you, Rob, which is does it hold up?

01:25:44.557 --> 01:25:49.297
If someone out there is listening and
like us a few weeks ago has seen a lot

01:25:49.297 --> 01:25:53.167
of Star Trek, they like a lot of Star
Trek, but they've not seen The Animated

01:25:53.167 --> 01:25:55.657
Series, do you recommend the experience?

01:25:55.657 --> 01:25:55.905
Rob: Look.

01:25:55.995 --> 01:25:56.295
Yeah.

01:25:56.362 --> 01:25:57.665
You've asked two different things.

01:25:58.265 --> 01:26:02.222
I recommend the experience because
as a completist Star Trek now

01:26:02.222 --> 01:26:05.112
I have to go back and watch all
the other ones that I've missed.

01:26:05.112 --> 01:26:05.523
Yes.

01:26:05.523 --> 01:26:10.113
So there is some elements in there that
you need to see and moments you need to

01:26:10.113 --> 01:26:13.843
go, oh, this is good, and you need to
go through the same cringes that we did.

01:26:13.861 --> 01:26:15.601
It doesn't hold up, sadly.

01:26:15.601 --> 01:26:22.741
I wanted it to be so good, and I think
I'm warped by how modern animation of

01:26:22.832 --> 01:26:28.217
spinoffs of our shows are now after,
especially coming off Lower Decks and

01:26:28.217 --> 01:26:33.732
Prodigy and my love of Rebels and Bad
Batch and Clone Wars from Star Wars.

01:26:33.942 --> 01:26:37.115
I'm in that head space where I'm
going, that's what I expect and

01:26:37.115 --> 01:26:39.965
I was wanting this to go well,
especially cuz they're going so

01:26:39.965 --> 01:26:41.705
much of the original cast is back.

01:26:41.765 --> 01:26:45.455
So much of the original writers, I know
their mentality of what they're going

01:26:45.455 --> 01:26:50.455
for and what we've been finding out, at
every obstacle there was just something

01:26:50.785 --> 01:26:55.715
getting in their way and the cast didn't
want to really be there and cast who

01:26:55.735 --> 01:26:58.825
did want to be there, got to write
and they didn't want to be doing that.

01:26:58.825 --> 01:27:03.625
So there's all these obstacles
taking away from the experience.

01:27:03.707 --> 01:27:09.377
Yeah, sadly it doesn't hold
up, but it is it, I will say

01:27:09.437 --> 01:27:11.417
it's not, it is now essential.

01:27:11.417 --> 01:27:12.647
It is essential watching.

01:27:13.038 --> 01:27:18.319
Kevin: Yes, certainly modern Star Trek has
leaned back into some of those stories and

01:27:18.319 --> 01:27:24.379
pulled some details forward and therefore
like settled any question of is it cannon?

01:27:24.859 --> 01:27:26.359
Did it really happen?

01:27:26.405 --> 01:27:28.715
The, that decision is made now.

01:27:28.715 --> 01:27:32.915
This is real Star Trek and it's
what Star Trek was at the time.

01:27:32.915 --> 01:27:36.335
For all of its faults and
all of its highs and lows.

01:27:36.499 --> 01:27:37.759
Rob: It was trying things.

01:27:37.879 --> 01:27:39.559
There are some new ideas in there.

01:27:39.739 --> 01:27:41.888
There's rehashing old cliches.

01:27:41.888 --> 01:27:47.176
There is an incredibly outdated
and, quite infuriating issues of,

01:27:47.236 --> 01:27:51.002
gender politics and race and all
that type of stuff that we have seen

01:27:51.062 --> 01:27:52.862
with watching The Original Series.

01:27:53.042 --> 01:27:56.222
But what it was striving for and
what it was reaching for beyond

01:27:56.222 --> 01:28:00.986
the constraints of its, the society
it was in is admirable to see.

01:28:01.254 --> 01:28:06.750
Kevin: As a true fourth season of Star
Trek, what the best praise I can give it

01:28:06.960 --> 01:28:12.300
is that the worst episodes are no worse
than the worst episodes of season three

01:28:12.300 --> 01:28:17.280
of the original series, and the best
episodes are right up there with the best

01:28:17.280 --> 01:28:19.350
that Star Trek gave us in season three.

01:28:19.663 --> 01:28:21.013
Rob: Yeah, I'd say that as well.

01:28:21.013 --> 01:28:27.628
And there are some embarrassing episodes
of Star Trek from the nineties, from the

01:28:27.628 --> 01:28:31.228
naughties from the last couple of years.

01:28:31.468 --> 01:28:38.017
So it's not a case of this is an anomaly
of embarrassing cringeworthy stories

01:28:38.167 --> 01:28:40.867
or embarrassing moments of going, oh
god, I can't believe they did that.

01:28:40.867 --> 01:28:44.827
I'm going, oh, I've watched . I've
been catching up on Picard.

01:28:45.007 --> 01:28:48.397
So there's some moments where I'm
going, I have the similar thoughts that

01:28:48.397 --> 01:28:49.627
they had while watching the animated.

01:28:50.618 --> 01:28:52.598
Kevin: There, there are
some good ones here.

01:28:52.688 --> 01:28:57.608
There have been suggestions that
this series should be remastered or

01:28:57.608 --> 01:29:00.068
reanimated using the original voices.

01:29:00.398 --> 01:29:02.798
Having watched it, I
would say don't do that.

01:29:03.968 --> 01:29:09.679
On the whole, there is more le that
is best left to history than is worth

01:29:10.189 --> 01:29:16.129
bringing into the present of production
values, but there might be one or two

01:29:16.189 --> 01:29:21.364
or three or four bright spots here
that if they as a one off as a bonus

01:29:21.369 --> 01:29:26.534
feature as an internet web episode, if
they did want to apply the Lower Decks

01:29:27.114 --> 01:29:32.794
2D animation polished version to it,
I would definitely rewatch it in that.

01:29:33.333 --> 01:29:33.603
Rob: Yeah.

01:29:33.603 --> 01:29:36.383
It would be interesting to see as
a bit of, coming up to the 60th

01:29:36.383 --> 01:29:40.254
anniversary of Star Trek, maybe a little
bit of a little treat for the fans.

01:29:40.254 --> 01:29:44.633
Take one or two of the particularly
special ones and give them a bit of

01:29:44.633 --> 01:29:48.312
a, an update, keeping the original
dialogue and actually have the opening

01:29:48.312 --> 01:29:51.972
credits with the actual theme music.

01:29:52.362 --> 01:29:53.142
Imagine that.

01:29:53.533 --> 01:29:54.303
Kevin: Imagine that.

01:29:54.306 --> 01:29:55.056
Rob: So that's it.

01:29:55.056 --> 01:29:55.416
That's it.

01:29:55.446 --> 01:29:59.166
We've gone from going to talk about
one or two of our good ones and one

01:29:59.166 --> 01:30:01.986
or two of our worst ones to just
going through every single one.

01:30:02.166 --> 01:30:03.456
Your memory was amazing.

01:30:03.516 --> 01:30:04.699
Mine was disappointing.

01:30:04.780 --> 01:30:05.320
Kevin: That's okay.

01:30:05.325 --> 01:30:07.020
You did it without notice, Rob.

01:30:07.068 --> 01:30:09.978
I am, I marvel at the attempt.

01:30:10.907 --> 01:30:11.687
Rob: Thank you so much.

01:30:11.687 --> 01:30:14.699
So this was our way of
filling in hiatus from

01:30:14.911 --> 01:30:15.451
Kevin: Yes.

01:30:15.511 --> 01:30:19.411
Next time we speak we will be arguing
about whether Star Trek Picard,

01:30:19.411 --> 01:30:24.511
season three is living up to our
increasingly unreasonable expectations.

01:30:24.749 --> 01:30:27.713
Rob: Look, and I'm looking
forward to, you yeah.

01:30:27.803 --> 01:30:29.003
Me doing this podcast.

01:30:29.003 --> 01:30:33.638
I had to go through and watch season
two of Picard, which I had been

01:30:33.638 --> 01:30:39.248
told not to watch, and I'm watching
it going All right, I can see why.

01:30:39.624 --> 01:30:41.684
Kevin: Low expectations
can help though, Rob.

01:30:41.684 --> 01:30:44.348
Rob: Low… Oh, look, yeah, they did help.

01:30:44.348 --> 01:30:47.018
I actually enjoyed more of it
than I thought I would, but then

01:30:47.018 --> 01:30:50.648
I get to the ending where I'm
there going, what are you doing?

01:30:50.948 --> 01:30:54.338
Why are you embracing Q
like he is an old friend?

01:30:54.338 --> 01:30:56.688
This does not make any sense.

01:30:56.688 --> 01:31:00.275
But yes, I am looking forward to,
yeah, the expectations are high.

01:31:00.825 --> 01:31:04.503
Everyone is going no, season
three is, this is, do or die.

01:31:04.593 --> 01:31:06.483
And, uh, it.

01:31:07.923 --> 01:31:11.182
And if in doubt, we've got Strange
New Worlds coming out at some point,

01:31:11.187 --> 01:31:15.126
and we've, as you just said to me,
Prodigy season two is coming at

01:31:15.277 --> 01:31:17.377
Kevin: Confirmed for 2023.

01:31:17.426 --> 01:31:20.454
We're not gonna have to wait as
long until we see what happens next.

01:31:20.513 --> 01:31:20.873
Rob: Oh yeah.

01:31:20.873 --> 01:31:24.312
And there's also the final season
of Discovery and yeah, but I've

01:31:24.312 --> 01:31:25.482
gotta catch up on that as well.

01:31:25.542 --> 01:31:27.542
Damn you Kevin Yank.

01:31:28.302 --> 01:31:30.732
Making me watch the stuff
that I started watching.

01:31:31.903 --> 01:31:33.193
Kevin: See around the galaxy.

01:31:33.342 --> 01:31:34.302
Rob: see you around soon.

01:31:34.302 --> 01:31:37.770
Looking forward to getting
back onto some new Star Trek.