WEBVTT NOTE This file was generated by Descript 00:00:09.690 --> 00:00:13.110 CAILIN: Welcome everyone to Faith and Purpose podcast. 00:00:13.870 --> 00:00:19.050 Each episode of this podcast contains the personal testimony of an ordinary person 00:00:19.069 --> 00:00:21.810 transformed by an extraordinary God. 00:00:22.480 --> 00:00:25.640 My name is Caitlin and I'm here to introduce this podcast 00:00:25.650 --> 00:00:27.180 for my friend Jesse Duke. 00:00:27.790 --> 00:00:33.479 Jesse is a husband, father, author, life recovery guide, lay counselor, 00:00:33.739 --> 00:00:37.819 and small group leader, but his most important role is disciple. 00:00:38.259 --> 00:00:39.589 As a disciple of Jesus. 00:00:40.190 --> 00:00:44.280 Jesse created this podcast to help other believers tell their faith stories. 00:00:44.830 --> 00:00:48.629 We'll be hearing the personal testimonies of all sorts of people 00:00:48.629 --> 00:00:52.560 who have one thing in common, Jesus has transformed their lives. 00:00:53.465 --> 00:00:57.555 Jesus used parables because he created us to learn best through story. 00:00:57.985 --> 00:01:02.775 And as we listen to how God has worked in others lives, we find encouragement 00:01:02.785 --> 00:01:05.075 and inspiration for our own faith walk. 00:01:05.564 --> 00:01:09.935 Whether you are already a believer, or just a curious seeker, we believe that 00:01:09.955 --> 00:01:14.244 as you listen to these stories, you will be encouraged on your own faith journey. 00:01:14.544 --> 00:01:18.794 We are sure that God can speak to you through one of these episodes, and that 00:01:18.794 --> 00:01:22.464 you will see that our Heavenly Father truly works all things together for 00:01:22.464 --> 00:01:27.360 our good, When we simply love and trust him if you are currently going through 00:01:27.400 --> 00:01:31.700 a trial We believe that you will come to see that your troubles Heartbreaks 00:01:31.720 --> 00:01:36.750 and failures are not gravestones, but stepping stones into new life in Christ. 00:01:37.180 --> 00:01:39.170 Here's Jesse with today's guest 00:01:54.233 --> 00:01:57.293 Jesse: Welcome everybody to faith and purpose podcast. 00:01:58.043 --> 00:01:58.943 I'm Jesse Duke. 00:01:59.303 --> 00:02:04.343 And today we have my longtime friend, Jamie Renfro to tell his faith story. 00:02:05.333 --> 00:02:10.976 Jamie's a former green beret, a lawyer, an entrepreneur, and a lot more, but best 00:02:10.976 --> 00:02:13.136 of all, he's a great husband and father. 00:02:13.703 --> 00:02:14.573 Welcome Jeremy. 00:02:14.843 --> 00:02:19.073 I've known you for over four decades now, and I've never heard your story. 00:02:19.673 --> 00:02:21.503 Of course I've got bits and pieces. 00:02:22.523 --> 00:02:26.303 But, uh, so tell us your story as if I don't know a thing. 00:02:26.603 --> 00:02:27.923 However, the Lord leads you. 00:02:28.365 --> 00:02:29.575 GMT20231218-140610_Recording_separate2: Well, I've been a 00:02:29.835 --> 00:02:31.215 Christian for a long time. 00:02:31.535 --> 00:02:35.935 I was born in a little town in South Carolina, Lakeview, 00:02:35.945 --> 00:02:39.595 which is in Dillon County, close to the North Carolina border. 00:02:39.825 --> 00:02:42.745 I'm going to give you, perspective on where I grew up. 00:02:42.765 --> 00:02:43.795 Very small town. 00:02:44.545 --> 00:02:51.175 And, my, my mother was a Christian, my grandmother was a Christian, and they 00:02:51.175 --> 00:02:53.995 made sure we were in church on Sunday. 00:02:54.585 --> 00:02:58.105 My dad and my granddad, neither one were Christians at that time. 00:02:58.105 --> 00:03:03.555 but that's how I grew up until I was 15, in, in that kind of a household. 00:03:05.142 --> 00:03:09.452 my dad, when I was very young, was my hero. 00:03:10.402 --> 00:03:12.202 he played semi pro baseball. 00:03:13.112 --> 00:03:14.462 I go to his games. 00:03:14.477 --> 00:03:20.677 Catch balls when they got fouled off and that kind of thing and then 00:03:20.677 --> 00:03:26.027 he got into dirt track racing and so I go to dirt track and watch 00:03:26.027 --> 00:03:28.447 him race and be a part of that. 00:03:28.457 --> 00:03:32.547 And as a very young boy, my dad was. 00:03:33.372 --> 00:03:39.732 The hero that most of us boys would like to have, and, I wanted to be just like 00:03:39.732 --> 00:03:43.662 him, I wanted to do things like him, and all of that, my parents got married 00:03:43.662 --> 00:03:48.892 very young, and we have a very large family, I was the second child, the 00:03:48.892 --> 00:03:54.862 oldest boy, and, a family of 11 kids, My dad and mom neither had high school 00:03:54.862 --> 00:04:02.562 education, and so I'd say the biggest stress for them at that time was financial 00:04:02.562 --> 00:04:04.832 pressure, raising a large family. 00:04:04.832 --> 00:04:08.852 And of course, there weren't 11 kids at that when I was young, but, still a 00:04:08.852 --> 00:04:15.502 large family and, my youngest sister was born the year I went to college, and my 00:04:15.502 --> 00:04:20.055 two youngest brothers were born after I went to the college, we still had 00:04:20.055 --> 00:04:21.825 a large family when I was growing up. 00:04:21.845 --> 00:04:23.315 Finances were really tough. 00:04:23.985 --> 00:04:28.145 And my dad always worked, but, some of the guys he got hanging around 00:04:28.145 --> 00:04:32.760 with, they had a, an influence on him, and, he allowed that. 00:04:32.760 --> 00:04:33.700 It wasn't their fault. 00:04:33.700 --> 00:04:38.740 it was his decision to start drinking alcohol, and, when he played baseball, he 00:04:39.460 --> 00:04:43.810 never did any of alcohol or drugs because he needed to be in good conditioning. 00:04:44.070 --> 00:04:46.160 physical condition to play baseball. 00:04:46.670 --> 00:04:49.090 But when he started racing, that changed a lot. 00:04:49.100 --> 00:04:54.630 And, I remember, after a few years of that, I remember him coming home at night 00:04:54.640 --> 00:04:59.600 drunk and raising Cain and just, things really took a dark turn in our family 00:04:59.600 --> 00:05:04.650 over the next few years, because of the things that were happening in his life. 00:05:05.230 --> 00:05:09.250 Now, during that time, when I was nine, I became a Christian. 00:05:09.725 --> 00:05:12.925 But it was through the influence of my mother and grandmother 00:05:12.925 --> 00:05:19.685 who always had us in church and, they taught us, all about Jesus. 00:05:20.225 --> 00:05:26.055 And I was in church service last night and we were singing some of the old hymns 00:05:26.055 --> 00:05:30.085 and tears came to my eyes as I thought about, my mom and grandmom were the 00:05:30.085 --> 00:05:32.965 ones who I first heard singing these. 00:05:33.805 --> 00:05:38.135 Hymns and, taught me the hymns and, took me to church to, to 00:05:38.425 --> 00:05:40.025 hear all these Christmas hymns. 00:05:40.025 --> 00:05:50.445 And, so my early life, I really owe the, my, my becoming a Christian and learning 00:05:50.445 --> 00:05:55.395 about Christ to my mom and grandmother who were a really large influence in my life. 00:05:56.895 --> 00:06:00.925 But like most boys Uh, as we get older, our moms and our 00:06:00.935 --> 00:06:02.635 grandmamas can't tell us too much. 00:06:02.635 --> 00:06:09.215 We look more to our dads and, they have a lot more influence in my life. 00:06:09.455 --> 00:06:13.875 And so after I became a Christian, I started down that road of following 00:06:13.875 --> 00:06:19.165 in my dad's footsteps and becoming the person that he was at that time. 00:06:20.035 --> 00:06:24.955 Although I hated a lot of the things that I saw as a child, for some reason, 00:06:25.505 --> 00:06:30.665 boys follow in their dad's footsteps and, so a lot of the things that he was 00:06:30.665 --> 00:06:35.145 doing, the foul language, the fighting, all those kinds of things that he was 00:06:35.145 --> 00:06:37.695 involved in, I was following right behind. 00:06:38.375 --> 00:06:38.405 GMT20231218-140610_Recording_separate1: Okay. 00:06:39.160 --> 00:06:43.520 GMT20231218-140610_Recording_separate2: things changed when I was 15, um, my 00:06:43.520 --> 00:06:48.380 sister and I rotated, nights, spending the night with my grandmother who lived out in 00:06:48.380 --> 00:06:51.630 the country, one of my grandmothers that lived out in the country, my dad's mom, 00:06:51.630 --> 00:06:57.050 her husband had died years ago and years before, and So we took turns spending 00:06:57.050 --> 00:06:58.820 that with her, keeping her company. 00:06:58.870 --> 00:07:04.430 And one night or one morning when I got up, I got a call from my mother 00:07:04.460 --> 00:07:06.250 that said, don't go to school today. 00:07:06.660 --> 00:07:07.980 Somebody will come pick you up. 00:07:08.140 --> 00:07:13.955 And when I got home, when I was Picked up by my grand grandmother and brought home. 00:07:14.465 --> 00:07:19.765 there had been a big altercation at home and, my dad ended up in jail 00:07:20.005 --> 00:07:27.195 and, my parents split up and we lived across the street from mom and dad. 00:07:27.195 --> 00:07:35.715 And, after A few weeks of that, my, my granddad and my mom worked together and 00:07:35.715 --> 00:07:42.775 he bought a mobile home and, we moved this mobile home on to his property and we all 00:07:42.785 --> 00:07:47.745 moved into the mobile home on his property and that's where we lived for the next 00:07:47.925 --> 00:07:55.850 few months and, One thing I like to tell people because I want people to understand 00:07:55.850 --> 00:08:03.037 how Christ really changes people and changes lives, and how sometimes 00:08:03.047 --> 00:08:09.687 things that look really bad in your life, God uses them to bring blessing. 00:08:09.687 --> 00:08:16.097 But one day I was, on my bicycle downtown and while my parents were 00:08:16.097 --> 00:08:18.397 separated and my dad drove by. 00:08:20.302 --> 00:08:25.742 I saw him throw up his hand to wave at me, and I turned my back because 00:08:25.742 --> 00:08:28.712 I didn't want anything to do with him because of the things he had 00:08:28.712 --> 00:08:30.992 done in our family and to my mom. 00:08:32.172 --> 00:08:38.122 a few years earlier, he was my hero, and now I didn't want anything to do with 00:08:38.122 --> 00:08:43.562 him, and it's because of things that had happened and transpired over those years. 00:08:44.802 --> 00:08:50.182 But fortunately, dad had some friends who, really took an interest in his life. 00:08:50.562 --> 00:08:54.142 some men who had become Christians, some men that he had known playing 00:08:54.142 --> 00:08:59.102 baseball, who he had known racing, who had become Christians, and 00:08:59.102 --> 00:09:01.552 so they invited him to church. 00:09:02.312 --> 00:09:07.042 And I heard Dad say sometime later that he tried everything to straighten 00:09:07.042 --> 00:09:11.522 his life out, and nothing worked until he gave his life to Christ. 00:09:12.132 --> 00:09:15.542 And so when I was 15 years old, he gave his life to Christ. 00:09:16.502 --> 00:09:18.182 He got involved in church. 00:09:18.192 --> 00:09:22.082 He came back to mom and said, I know I've really messed things up. 00:09:22.352 --> 00:09:23.392 I'd like to try again. 00:09:23.392 --> 00:09:25.022 I've given my life to Jesus. 00:09:25.022 --> 00:09:30.592 And, I want to be the father and the husband that you deserve. 00:09:30.752 --> 00:09:37.052 And if you'll take me back, then I'd like to start over. 00:09:37.552 --> 00:09:38.972 And, I was the oldest boy. 00:09:39.012 --> 00:09:40.422 Mom came to me after that. 00:09:40.432 --> 00:09:41.902 She said, Jamie, what do you think? 00:09:41.922 --> 00:09:43.032 Dad wants to come home. 00:09:43.032 --> 00:09:46.122 And I said, Mom, please don't ask me that. 00:09:46.672 --> 00:09:48.322 you're going to have to make that decision. 00:09:48.332 --> 00:09:50.032 That's something I cannot tell you. 00:09:50.142 --> 00:09:54.322 And, but she allowed him to come back. 00:09:54.722 --> 00:09:57.392 we moved the mobile home down to his farm, started over. 00:09:57.432 --> 00:10:01.102 his mother had a small farm out in the country and we moved down there. 00:10:01.152 --> 00:10:03.892 And, we started over and 00:10:03.892 --> 00:10:05.622 GMT20231218-140610_Recording_separate1: how many people were in this 00:10:05.622 --> 00:10:06.982 mobile home at that time? 00:10:07.032 --> 00:10:07.062 Okay. 00:10:07.557 --> 00:10:11.177 GMT20231218-140610_Recording_separate2: so at that time there were seven and, 00:10:11.277 --> 00:10:16.057 seven children and I had, like I said earlier, I had a sister who was born, 00:10:16.057 --> 00:10:18.757 which would have been number, she would have been number nine, So there 00:10:18.757 --> 00:10:20.697 were eight of us and then mom and dad. 00:10:20.697 --> 00:10:21.577 So it'd been 10. 00:10:21.577 --> 00:10:24.267 It was a four bedroom mobile home. 00:10:24.267 --> 00:10:26.617 the girls had two rooms. 00:10:27.372 --> 00:10:30.712 And the boys had one big room with, bigger room with a couple 00:10:30.712 --> 00:10:35.472 of bunks in there, that's how we lived and, we got very close. 00:10:35.792 --> 00:10:38.442 What was neat, though, is every night Daddy would come home. 00:10:38.452 --> 00:10:40.662 We started doing a Bible study at home. 00:10:41.332 --> 00:10:42.522 He was home every day. 00:10:42.822 --> 00:10:46.072 We worked together to clean up the land around the mobile home and, 00:10:46.462 --> 00:10:47.832 started doing things together. 00:10:47.832 --> 00:10:52.792 He started going to, ball games, played high school athletics, 00:10:52.792 --> 00:10:56.332 and he started being at all the games, most of the practices. 00:10:58.562 --> 00:11:03.942 became much more involved in our lives than he had been for the previous years. 00:11:04.332 --> 00:11:10.532 And, things started really to change a year or so later. 00:11:11.302 --> 00:11:19.962 Older sister went off to college, then my counselor at school suggested 00:11:19.962 --> 00:11:27.392 I apply to West Point, and I did and got accepted, and then my brother 00:11:27.392 --> 00:11:32.752 that was a couple years younger did the same, and so God really started 00:11:32.942 --> 00:11:34.642 working at our home and in our life. 00:11:34.642 --> 00:11:43.792 and for me, the dramatic thing was seeing my dad before Christ and seeing 00:11:43.792 --> 00:11:48.802 my dad and our family after Christ and how things change so dramatically. 00:11:49.882 --> 00:11:52.012 and I've heard this statistic. 00:11:52.012 --> 00:11:58.192 I don't know how true it is, but I think I'm an example of it. 00:11:58.192 --> 00:12:00.232 And that is, if. 00:12:01.832 --> 00:12:07.022 A mother comes to know Christ, and there's a pretty high percentage 00:12:07.022 --> 00:12:13.872 that the children will follow, um, if the father in the family comes to 00:12:13.872 --> 00:12:19.552 know Christ, then that number becomes unbelievably high, like 80 or 90 percent, 00:12:19.882 --> 00:12:22.352 when the father becomes, comes Christ. 00:12:22.362 --> 00:12:24.562 David became the leader in our family. 00:12:25.197 --> 00:12:31.347 Her home, took us to church, made sure we were there, led our Bible studies and 00:12:31.787 --> 00:12:38.197 all of that and became a godly father and leader of our home after that. 00:12:38.197 --> 00:12:43.247 GMT20231218-140610_Recording_separate1: you had a living proof of God's 00:12:43.507 --> 00:12:46.407 power right there in front of you at all times after that. 00:12:47.967 --> 00:12:52.317 So that was, I hear it in your, when you're telling this, that, that was 00:12:52.337 --> 00:12:57.097 a big influence on you just to see how dramatically the change happened. 00:12:58.004 --> 00:13:01.364 So you went off to West Point after high school? 00:13:01.914 --> 00:13:02.384 GMT20231218-140610_Recording_separate2: Yes. 00:13:04.004 --> 00:13:04.874 GMT20231218-140610_Recording_separate1: So what was that like? 00:13:06.404 --> 00:13:08.234 GMT20231218-140610_Recording_separate2: came from a very small school. 00:13:08.234 --> 00:13:11.874 and, I feel like God opened the door. 00:13:11.874 --> 00:13:14.474 I applied for several colleges, West Point. 00:13:14.634 --> 00:13:17.724 And at that time, I'll consider Wheaton. 00:13:17.864 --> 00:13:19.114 I thought that would be a great. 00:13:19.164 --> 00:13:22.634 since I had really dedicated, rededicated my life after my dad 00:13:22.664 --> 00:13:26.284 became a Christian, I thought maybe God was leading me in that direction. 00:13:27.774 --> 00:13:36.553 GMT20231218-140610_Recording_separate1: by 00:13:36.624 --> 00:13:37.574 GMT20231218-140610_Recording_separate2: don't recall that. 00:13:38.194 --> 00:13:40.499 but I got accepted at West Point. 00:13:40.609 --> 00:13:45.339 And with our financial, family financial situation, that, that was a really 00:13:45.349 --> 00:13:50.109 plus because of, everyone that goes to the academies are on full scholarship. 00:13:50.159 --> 00:13:51.029 that helped. 00:13:51.149 --> 00:13:55.799 And, and it was academically, it was very difficult for me, 00:13:57.522 --> 00:14:01.531 GMT20231218-140610_Recording_separate1: me. 00:14:01.581 --> 00:14:03.431 GMT20231218-140610_Recording_separate2: failed a course, there was no making 00:14:03.431 --> 00:14:07.251 up, there was no summer school because of other requirements, 00:14:07.861 --> 00:14:09.191 military training and all. 00:14:09.201 --> 00:14:12.221 if you didn't pass a course, you didn't, you got kicked 00:14:12.221 --> 00:14:13.341 out, you couldn't come back. 00:14:13.341 --> 00:14:18.201 I taught mom and dad and they'd say, just pray, God's got you there for a reason. 00:14:18.771 --> 00:14:22.781 Do the best you can and have faith that he'll help you 00:14:23.591 --> 00:14:24.881 and he'll bring you through. 00:14:24.881 --> 00:14:28.381 And by the end of that semester, I was passing all my courses. 00:14:28.881 --> 00:14:30.881 I never was a great college student. 00:14:31.201 --> 00:14:39.075 I never had a, um, a great, GPA, but God brought me through all of that. 00:14:39.155 --> 00:14:42.775 And, and I think I was better prepared from a physical standpoint, having 00:14:42.775 --> 00:14:46.435 been involved in athletics and also that side of the academy then. 00:14:46.695 --> 00:14:50.665 Wasn't a struggle as much as academically, but, I got through, 00:14:50.715 --> 00:14:52.365 I always like to tell the story. 00:14:52.585 --> 00:14:58.005 at West Point, you have the engineers who were the top of the class, and then 00:14:58.005 --> 00:15:01.455 the goats that are on the bottom of the class, and then the lowest person in the 00:15:01.455 --> 00:15:07.995 class is called the goat, and I didn't, I wasn't the goat, but I could see the 00:15:07.995 --> 00:15:10.215 whites of his eyes, so I was pretty close. 00:15:10.215 --> 00:15:11.135 but I made it through. 00:15:11.255 --> 00:15:17.655 God gave me the ability to get called up and, and graduated. 00:15:17.785 --> 00:15:18.055 So 00:15:18.550 --> 00:15:20.150 GMT20231218-140610_Recording_separate1: Alright, I'm curious and I know 00:15:20.150 --> 00:15:24.050 somebody else is going to be too, but where did that goat thing come from? 00:15:24.480 --> 00:15:24.770 What's the 00:15:24.925 --> 00:15:25.995 GMT20231218-140610_Recording_separate2: I have no idea. 00:15:26.045 --> 00:15:31.220 That's just a tradition that's gone on, because it um, the midshipman at 00:15:31.220 --> 00:15:33.320 Annapolis are their mascots a goat. 00:15:33.860 --> 00:15:34.080 GMT20231218-140610_Recording_separate1: Oh, 00:15:34.530 --> 00:15:36.510 GMT20231218-140610_Recording_separate2: And so the last person in the 00:15:36.510 --> 00:15:41.880 class, is comparable to the smartest guy at the NA Naval Academy. 00:15:43.325 --> 00:15:43.615 GMT20231218-140610_Recording_separate1: Okay, 00:15:44.455 --> 00:15:45.955 GMT20231218-140610_Recording_separate2: so I guess that's where it came from. 00:15:48.225 --> 00:15:52.225 GMT20231218-140610_Recording_separate1: Alright, well, so what next? 00:15:52.695 --> 00:16:06.615 Silence. 00:16:06.770 --> 00:16:07.665 GMT20231218-140610_Recording_separate2: I'd seen my life. 00:16:09.675 --> 00:16:36.545 GMT20231218-140610_Recording_separate1: It 00:16:36.915 --> 00:16:39.905 GMT20231218-140610_Recording_separate2: finished my five year commitment. 00:16:39.905 --> 00:16:42.785 For At Fort Bragg with 5th group. 00:16:44.625 --> 00:16:46.235 GMT20231218-140610_Recording_separate1: means you were a Green Beret. 00:16:47.115 --> 00:16:47.455 GMT20231218-140610_Recording_separate2: Correct. 00:16:47.940 --> 00:16:54.020 GMT20231218-140610_Recording_separate1: Yeah, awesome So after your five 00:16:54.020 --> 00:16:56.100 year commitment, what happened? 00:16:58.335 --> 00:16:59.765 GMT20231218-140610_Recording_separate2: Got out of the army and I start, 00:16:59.815 --> 00:17:02.255 praying, Lord, tell me, show me what you want me to do next. 00:17:02.255 --> 00:17:03.215 I'll stay in. 00:17:03.665 --> 00:17:09.045 Make it a career, I'd get out, whatever, and I felt um, at that time, at least, 00:17:09.055 --> 00:17:12.955 that, maybe the Lord was leading me to get out and do some other things. 00:17:13.505 --> 00:17:19.275 I always had an interest in politics, got out, ran for an office in the county 00:17:19.275 --> 00:17:21.765 where I grew up in, in the probate judge. 00:17:22.085 --> 00:17:27.875 And, ran for office, got a, Lord, Lord, brought things together at 00:17:27.885 --> 00:17:32.695 the right time, and I got elected as probate judge, served a term there. 00:17:33.675 --> 00:17:37.585 During that time, I got really interested in getting more 00:17:37.585 --> 00:17:41.715 education and going to law school. 00:17:41.805 --> 00:17:44.815 Worked around a lot of judges, a lot of lawyers, and I thought 00:17:44.865 --> 00:17:46.875 that would be a good, thing to do. 00:17:48.405 --> 00:17:52.485 And, at that time, I thought I might be interested in staying 00:17:52.665 --> 00:17:54.345 involved more in politics. 00:17:54.795 --> 00:18:02.445 But if I did, I needed, a way to make a living and I needed, uh, 00:18:02.465 --> 00:18:04.145 better educate, more education. 00:18:04.145 --> 00:18:10.525 So I went to law school and, graduated three years later, 00:18:10.575 --> 00:18:12.135 GMT20231218-140610_Recording_separate1: something happened in law school 00:18:12.135 --> 00:18:13.495 that I'd want to hear about. 00:18:13.495 --> 00:18:14.485 GMT20231218-140610_Recording_separate2: the best thing that happened at 00:18:14.485 --> 00:18:20.705 law school is I met my wife, and, she and I started, seeing each 00:18:20.705 --> 00:18:22.255 other while we were in law school. 00:18:22.865 --> 00:18:26.675 We didn't get married until, a year after we graduated, 00:18:27.015 --> 00:18:29.235 and again, it was a God thing. 00:18:29.285 --> 00:18:35.815 I had fallen in love with a girl, um, when I was in the Army, and, 00:18:35.835 --> 00:18:41.195 I just knew that she was the one, and so I, I was head over heels. 00:18:42.040 --> 00:18:44.990 And, she didn't see it that way, broke my heart. 00:18:45.580 --> 00:18:51.840 when I was younger to make sure that if I ever got married, that it would 00:18:51.840 --> 00:18:55.150 be someone that God put into my life. 00:18:55.170 --> 00:18:58.660 And it was his decision and not mine. 00:18:59.660 --> 00:19:05.820 And, so I prayed, I met her, we started dating, on and off. 00:19:06.875 --> 00:19:10.545 I'm still praying, Lord, you got to show me if she's the right one. 00:19:11.015 --> 00:19:18.805 And through a series of events after we graduated, I knew she was the one. 00:19:18.865 --> 00:19:22.405 God really touched my heart and I knew that I knew. 00:19:22.865 --> 00:19:26.085 So I asked her to marry me and we got married and been now been 00:19:26.085 --> 00:19:30.720 married for Over 30 years, three, three daughters from that marriage, 00:19:31.685 --> 00:19:31.965 Jesse: Wow. 00:19:32.015 --> 00:19:33.635 I'm sensing a pattern here. 00:19:33.865 --> 00:19:39.675 After you, say, back in, high school, you started praying. 00:19:40.135 --> 00:19:45.125 You prayed about what college to go to, and you applied to different colleges, 00:19:45.125 --> 00:19:50.105 and you trusted God to lead you there, and then, when it was time to get out of the 00:19:50.105 --> 00:19:54.545 Army, you prayed and asked for direction there, and, You went to, you did the, 00:19:54.595 --> 00:19:58.655 probate judge thing and then you felt like God was leading you to go to law school. 00:19:58.655 --> 00:19:59.305 You did that. 00:19:59.355 --> 00:20:05.575 you trusted God for your life mate and he did that and I'm sensing a pattern here. 00:20:06.215 --> 00:20:06.965 Keep going. 00:20:06.965 --> 00:20:10.375 GMT20231218-140610_Recording_separate2: I think I've had several young people 00:20:10.375 --> 00:20:12.175 come to me over the last few years. 00:20:12.175 --> 00:20:16.345 I think it's called an old, older, and said, what do you 00:20:16.345 --> 00:20:18.675 think's the secret to success? 00:20:19.385 --> 00:20:20.375 And I think as a. 00:20:21.145 --> 00:20:26.385 As a young man, I made a decision as a person, I think we all have 00:20:26.395 --> 00:20:30.455 to make a decision on what's going to be our focus in life. 00:20:31.295 --> 00:20:37.385 And I like to think about this in terms of a military exercise that 00:20:37.385 --> 00:20:38.905 I had back when I was in the army. 00:20:38.905 --> 00:20:41.265 It's called land navigation. 00:20:42.645 --> 00:20:44.865 In the civilian world, it's called orienteering. 00:20:45.865 --> 00:20:52.365 And in this exercise Um, you learn how to read a compass, you use a compass and 00:20:52.365 --> 00:20:59.415 a map, and you're given coordinates on that map, and you mark it, and you mark 00:20:59.415 --> 00:21:03.275 where you are, you draw a line to it, you figure out how far from where you are to 00:21:03.275 --> 00:21:07.975 where you're going, and you also, put your compass down on that map and figure out 00:21:08.015 --> 00:21:09.775 what direction you gotta go to get there. 00:21:10.775 --> 00:21:16.915 And then, in the army we were given a cord to tie to our belt and so when 00:21:16.915 --> 00:21:21.775 you take off and you shoot your compass in the direction you got to go and you 00:21:21.775 --> 00:21:25.655 start walking, you start counting your steps and every hundred steps or every 00:21:26.445 --> 00:21:30.805 what you figure to be a hundred meters in your walk, you tie a knot in it. 00:21:31.585 --> 00:21:35.245 And, and you go to your target that works. 00:21:35.245 --> 00:21:35.575 Okay. 00:21:35.575 --> 00:21:38.785 Except there's a lot of obstacles around the way along the way. 00:21:38.835 --> 00:21:41.525 And sometimes you get to a lake or a. 00:21:41.855 --> 00:21:43.575 River, and you got to go around it. 00:21:43.625 --> 00:21:48.195 you can't just, you just can't shoot your asthma across the river and swim it. 00:21:48.255 --> 00:21:51.485 I guess you could, but what you do is you do some call 00:21:51.495 --> 00:21:55.455 resection and you take 90 degrees. 00:21:56.675 --> 00:22:01.475 To go along the river and then you find a place to cross and then you cross and 00:22:01.475 --> 00:22:06.405 then you take 90 degrees back and but it's a it's pretty tedious thing if you're 00:22:06.405 --> 00:22:10.335 out in the woods and you're traveling and you're trying to get find a little 00:22:10.335 --> 00:22:16.645 stake, several miles away in the middle of the woods, um, takes a lot of expertise. 00:22:16.645 --> 00:22:21.585 It takes a lot of practicing and, all, but it's totally dependent on what 00:22:21.605 --> 00:22:23.595 you've learned and what you can do. 00:22:23.595 --> 00:22:28.315 one day my ranger buddy and I were, getting ready to start out and we 00:22:28.315 --> 00:22:32.715 noticed that right above where this end point was supposed to be, this 00:22:32.735 --> 00:22:37.575 target was supposed to be, was a tower sitting on the side of the mountain. 00:22:38.675 --> 00:22:45.215 And we figured that if we could go to the tower, it'd be easy to find that stake 00:22:45.225 --> 00:22:48.315 just a short distance from the tower. 00:22:48.865 --> 00:22:50.115 And so instead of. 00:22:51.040 --> 00:22:54.770 of shooting our asthma, counting our steps, 00:22:54.878 --> 00:22:55.867 GMT20231218-140610_Recording_separate1: Document MS 00:22:56.130 --> 00:22:57.600 GMT20231218-140610_Recording_separate2: and doing all those things, 00:22:57.790 --> 00:22:59.050 we just went to the tower. 00:22:59.328 --> 00:23:00.317 GMT20231218-140610_Recording_separate1: Word Document 00:23:00.490 --> 00:23:02.660 GMT20231218-140610_Recording_separate2: And, we still had the same obstacles 00:23:02.660 --> 00:23:05.400 across, but it was much easier because we didn't have to count 00:23:05.400 --> 00:23:09.140 steps, we didn't have to keep up with directions, we just went to the tower. 00:23:09.140 --> 00:23:13.760 And when we got to the tower, then we just had a short distance to shoot an asthma 00:23:13.920 --> 00:23:17.180 back to the target, and we got there, and we got there much faster than if we 00:23:17.180 --> 00:23:18.790 had done it our way, and much easier. 00:23:19.585 --> 00:23:22.415 And so I think that's a good analogy of how life is. 00:23:22.745 --> 00:23:24.475 You can do it totally on your own. 00:23:25.105 --> 00:23:25.995 You can take off. 00:23:26.045 --> 00:23:27.155 You can have dreams. 00:23:27.155 --> 00:23:31.935 you can do it by yourself and you hear people a lot of times, successful people. 00:23:31.935 --> 00:23:33.105 Oh, I'm a self made man. 00:23:33.115 --> 00:23:33.875 I'm a self made man. 00:23:33.885 --> 00:23:39.075 I don't think that's true, but that's what a lot of people set out to do. 00:23:39.145 --> 00:23:45.735 Or you can focus on Christ and you can live for him. 00:23:46.205 --> 00:23:47.755 And then all these other things. 00:23:50.170 --> 00:23:51.860 Are going to take care of themselves. 00:23:52.570 --> 00:23:54.690 You don't have to be right all the time. 00:23:54.690 --> 00:23:58.920 You don't have to have everything mapped out just perfectly. 00:23:58.920 --> 00:24:02.760 Every time when those obstacles come in your life, it's much 00:24:02.760 --> 00:24:04.020 easier to deal with them. 00:24:04.050 --> 00:24:09.530 If you're living for him, and I think it's what with what it says in 00:24:09.540 --> 00:24:15.780 Hebrews, after the author of Hebrews lays out this hall of fame, what I 00:24:15.780 --> 00:24:19.980 call a hall of faith of all these. 00:24:21.045 --> 00:24:26.165 Great characters in the Bible and what they had done what they 00:24:26.165 --> 00:24:31.015 had accomplished through their faith in Christ Then it says okay. 00:24:31.015 --> 00:24:34.955 So what's the lesson here in Hebrews 12? 00:24:34.955 --> 00:24:40.835 It says so what do we do and it says fix your eyes on Christ And so just as we I 00:24:40.835 --> 00:24:45.905 was fixing my eyes on that tower to get to my target in life We have to fix our eyes 00:24:45.905 --> 00:24:49.065 on Christ an interesting thing happened. 00:24:49.915 --> 00:24:54.875 I learned Just a few months ago, I had this in my mind about fixing your eyes 00:24:54.875 --> 00:24:58.305 on Christ and living for Christ and all these things to be taken care of. 00:24:59.075 --> 00:25:00.415 And a good friend of mine, 00:25:00.615 --> 00:25:14.340 GMT20231218-140610_Recording_separate1: Yeah. 00:25:14.745 --> 00:25:16.875 GMT20231218-140610_Recording_separate2: on the cross and Jesus off the cross. 00:25:16.875 --> 00:25:19.165 And he said, no, he said, you're missing it. 00:25:19.175 --> 00:25:23.745 He said, what does John chapter one say? 00:25:24.915 --> 00:25:29.335 And it says, um, that the word is Christ. 00:25:29.925 --> 00:25:32.615 And he said, if you want to focus on Christ, focus on the word. 00:25:33.945 --> 00:25:37.815 And he quoted several other scriptures about Jesus being the word and how that, 00:25:38.065 --> 00:25:40.735 and how important that is in our life. 00:25:40.735 --> 00:25:47.655 And so now when I think about focusing on Christ, I'm in the word and I 00:25:47.655 --> 00:25:51.915 think that's how we grow and how we make it through life more abundantly. 00:25:52.365 --> 00:25:56.425 if we want an abundant life, if we want a successful life, then we focus on God, 00:25:56.425 --> 00:26:02.795 we focus on Jesus, and we focus, and we do that by staying in the word, and 00:26:02.795 --> 00:26:07.185 that's hard to do sometimes, it's, we get distracted in life, we get too busy, and 00:26:07.185 --> 00:26:11.715 so we, we get out of the word, it's like back to my land navigation, navigation. 00:26:12.985 --> 00:26:17.155 example, sometimes you can't see that tower. 00:26:19.415 --> 00:26:20.845 So what do you have to do? 00:26:22.075 --> 00:26:24.585 You don't want to just keep going in the wrong direction. 00:26:25.435 --> 00:26:26.725 So you have to refocus. 00:26:26.725 --> 00:26:30.745 And the way you do that on land navigation is you find high ground, 00:26:31.515 --> 00:26:35.485 you either go to a mountaintop so you can see the tower or you climb a 00:26:35.485 --> 00:26:39.925 tree or some way so you can see that tower to make sure you get back focus. 00:26:39.935 --> 00:26:42.185 The same thing is true in life, I think. 00:26:42.785 --> 00:26:48.815 And that is, You get off track sometimes, you get, go through these dark valleys 00:26:48.825 --> 00:26:52.095 sometimes where things just aren't going well and most of the time in 00:26:52.095 --> 00:26:55.675 my life, when that's happened, it's because I've gotten out of the word, 00:26:56.375 --> 00:27:01.775 I've gotten my eyes off of Christ and got it into back into on to Jamie and 00:27:01.775 --> 00:27:08.325 Jamie's what Jamie wants to do and what Jamie thinks the right thing to do and 00:27:08.325 --> 00:27:14.580 I fall back on my skills and my training instead of Focusing first on Christ. 00:27:14.930 --> 00:27:15.780 GMT20231218-140610_Recording_separate1: that's the way. 00:27:16.040 --> 00:27:16.340 yeah. 00:27:16.340 --> 00:27:19.760 that's the way people, that's the way the world operates, 00:27:19.760 --> 00:27:21.650 We just do what feels right. 00:27:22.110 --> 00:27:24.740 What seems right in our own eyes. 00:27:25.000 --> 00:27:25.650 GMT20231218-140610_Recording_separate2: Exactly. 00:27:26.280 --> 00:27:27.130 GMT20231218-140610_Recording_separate1: that's interesting. 00:27:27.130 --> 00:27:30.563 I just want to say you I like that land navigation. 00:27:31.893 --> 00:27:33.103 analogy you gave. 00:27:33.183 --> 00:27:37.853 I just, this last year I started using a Bible reading plan. 00:27:38.183 --> 00:27:43.193 I've never really been into those things because I'm thinking, why should I focus 00:27:43.193 --> 00:27:45.413 on getting through the Bible in a year? 00:27:45.423 --> 00:27:47.583 I just want to be in the Word. 00:27:47.583 --> 00:27:49.803 I want to, be led by the Holy Spirit. 00:27:49.803 --> 00:27:54.123 I don't need this planned, And, but I decided to go ahead and 00:27:54.243 --> 00:27:55.673 give it a try and I started. 00:27:56.413 --> 00:28:00.853 And, one of the things that I've learned is 00:28:01.523 --> 00:28:06.903 how relevant the word is to my life even when I don't think it is. 00:28:06.963 --> 00:28:12.413 in other words, like if I'm on the, Ah, here's an example. 00:28:12.703 --> 00:28:15.943 I was reading in, The Old Prophets. 00:28:15.943 --> 00:28:17.433 I think I was in Zechariah. 00:28:18.253 --> 00:28:20.593 About the time that, No, Ezekiel. 00:28:20.633 --> 00:28:25.323 Oh, this, yeah, I was in Ezekiel about the time this, whole thing over in Israel 00:28:25.323 --> 00:28:30.263 started back on October 7th and all the stuff that started happening around that. 00:28:30.983 --> 00:28:34.903 And, man, that brought that Bible to life, Everything that was 00:28:34.963 --> 00:28:39.923 everything Ezekiel, God was saying through Ezekiel just came to life 00:28:39.973 --> 00:28:41.983 because I could see it in the world. 00:28:42.013 --> 00:28:42.843 It was just happening. 00:28:42.873 --> 00:28:44.273 It's happening right now. 00:28:44.953 --> 00:28:49.543 And God's word is so relevant, even though it was written thousands, 00:28:50.193 --> 00:28:56.113 hundreds and thousands of years ago, it's wow, it, that's just one example. 00:28:56.213 --> 00:29:00.998 I don't have to be, necessarily be reading, on topics that are 00:29:00.998 --> 00:29:02.868 relevant to what I'm going through. 00:29:02.868 --> 00:29:04.728 That's a self centered way to look at it. 00:29:05.118 --> 00:29:09.998 But if I just focus on the word, then somehow God weaves it into my life. 00:29:10.858 --> 00:29:16.128 And another thing is that, I've always heard that, the analogy of 00:29:16.178 --> 00:29:22.743 a ship on the sea, if the ship's sitting still, It can't go anywhere. 00:29:22.803 --> 00:29:27.273 It has to be moving in order for it to turn the rudder to make the ship move, 00:29:28.138 --> 00:29:33.008 It's the analogy for me is I have to be moving in God's direction and doing 00:29:33.008 --> 00:29:39.368 something to connect with him so that he can turn me the way he wants me to go. 00:29:39.968 --> 00:29:45.298 So that's one, that's another value of having a reading plan rather than my plan. 00:29:45.348 --> 00:29:48.378 thank you for that, land navigation analogy because that 00:29:48.378 --> 00:29:50.218 made that come alive for me. 00:29:50.268 --> 00:29:51.986 GMT20231218-140610_Recording_separate2: the importance of reading the Bible 00:29:51.986 --> 00:29:53.131 necessarily, but just reading. 00:29:53.131 --> 00:30:01.277 And, he said, what you ought to do is, Keep a book, and in this case the Bible, 00:30:01.367 --> 00:30:06.117 right by your bedside, and develop a habit of every night before you turn 00:30:06.117 --> 00:30:08.397 off the light, is read a chapter or two. 00:30:08.467 --> 00:30:13.357 And he said you'll be amazed how many books over the course of the year 00:30:13.357 --> 00:30:17.527 you'll read if you just read a chapter every night before you go to sleep. 00:30:18.077 --> 00:30:23.702 So I started that practice and it was amazing, how many people In 00:30:23.702 --> 00:30:26.262 this country read 12 books a year. 00:30:27.032 --> 00:30:30.652 I found that most, if I read one chapter a night in a book, 00:30:30.682 --> 00:30:31.872 I can read a book a month. 00:30:32.882 --> 00:30:34.502 That's about what it works out to. 00:30:34.972 --> 00:30:37.172 Not many people read 12 books a year. 00:30:37.172 --> 00:30:41.662 And if you put that in the Bible context, if you do that, read a chapter every 00:30:41.662 --> 00:30:48.162 night, then You can go through the Bible pretty quickly, and then you do that 00:30:48.162 --> 00:30:51.112 on top of, church and other things. 00:30:51.552 --> 00:30:54.942 but it's very important that we develop habits that are good. 00:30:55.562 --> 00:30:58.992 It's easy to develop habits that are bad, but it's hard to develop habits 00:30:58.992 --> 00:31:03.672 that are good, and I think if we all get in the habit of reading a chapter 00:31:03.672 --> 00:31:05.932 a day in the Bible, at the very least. 00:31:05.932 --> 00:31:10.822 then we can, as you say, while I go about, keeping the ship on the right 00:31:10.822 --> 00:31:15.872 course, I think it really helps a lot when we develop those kind of good habits. 00:31:16.967 --> 00:31:18.357 GMT20231218-140610_Recording_separate1: I forgot where we were in your 00:31:18.357 --> 00:31:24.167 story, sorry, I diverted there, but let's see, where were we? 00:31:25.062 --> 00:31:27.212 Oh, you talked about, you got married. 00:31:27.232 --> 00:31:31.532 You had three girls, What was that like raising three, three girls? 00:31:31.582 --> 00:31:34.502 GMT20231218-140610_Recording_separate2: I think a lot of men, want boys, 00:31:34.542 --> 00:31:36.032 want some boys mixed in there. 00:31:36.062 --> 00:31:38.242 We want to have girls, but we want boys. 00:31:38.242 --> 00:31:41.922 But the Lord saw to it that I had three girls. 00:31:42.082 --> 00:31:45.162 And, in retrospect, that was probably the right thing. 00:31:45.162 --> 00:31:47.242 I probably would have been too tough on boys. 00:31:49.532 --> 00:31:55.542 but, my wife was, or is the backbone in our home as far as raising girls. 00:31:55.612 --> 00:32:00.642 And, she's really good at it because she likes to communicate, she talks with them 00:32:00.642 --> 00:32:05.262 and they talk with her and, but we've kept them in church while they were coming up. 00:32:05.262 --> 00:32:11.182 We taught them, we, we tried to duplicate what my mom and my grandmother, 00:32:11.192 --> 00:32:13.422 and then later my dad, did for us. 00:32:14.247 --> 00:32:20.737 And what her mom and her grandmother did for her, we tried to teach them 00:32:20.737 --> 00:32:25.387 and do for them what had been done for us to pass that on, which I think as 00:32:25.387 --> 00:32:27.327 a parent, that's our responsibility. 00:32:27.737 --> 00:32:31.027 And when you're raising children, not just girls, raising children, 00:32:31.997 --> 00:32:35.117 you're always thinking about, am I doing the right thing? 00:32:35.147 --> 00:32:37.492 Am I doing, Am I too hard? 00:32:37.492 --> 00:32:39.572 Am I too easy? 00:32:39.572 --> 00:32:40.642 And all those things. 00:32:40.692 --> 00:32:45.002 GMT20231218-140610_Recording_separate1: Yeah. 00:32:45.192 --> 00:32:47.862 GMT20231218-140610_Recording_separate2: time and then get all that experience 00:32:47.862 --> 00:32:52.552 and then start over, it would be, it'd be a lot easier the second time around. 00:32:52.552 --> 00:32:55.392 But the first time you just learning as you go. 00:32:55.422 --> 00:33:01.192 I think the secret is when you got to live. 00:33:02.322 --> 00:33:03.382 An example for them. 00:33:03.392 --> 00:33:07.412 You got to live what you teach them, because if they see any hypocrisy in you, 00:33:07.412 --> 00:33:09.092 they're not going to take it serious. 00:33:09.282 --> 00:33:10.442 So they got to see it. 00:33:10.542 --> 00:33:15.152 and then secondly, you got to, as children, you control their 00:33:15.152 --> 00:33:18.322 time and what they get involved in and all those kind of things. 00:33:18.352 --> 00:33:23.512 So you make sure that they're involved in a good church, a good youth program. 00:33:23.512 --> 00:33:28.902 And I know when, Carla and I, had, after I had been practicing law for 00:33:28.902 --> 00:33:32.592 a number of years, decided to move up to Spartanburg, South Carolina, 00:33:32.682 --> 00:33:34.512 which was a new city for us and all. 00:33:35.252 --> 00:33:38.482 And so when we got there, we were looking for a church. 00:33:38.572 --> 00:33:40.612 And so we talked about what we're looking for. 00:33:40.612 --> 00:33:43.492 There was, there, actually, there was a church that we really liked 00:33:43.542 --> 00:33:46.392 um, as far as the teaching and all. 00:33:46.392 --> 00:33:50.932 need to be where there's a great youth program for our girls, and so we joined 00:33:51.342 --> 00:33:53.542 that church with a great youth program. 00:33:53.542 --> 00:33:56.872 Not that the teaching and the preaching was bad or anything, it's 00:33:56.872 --> 00:34:01.847 just, Youth program was so good. 00:34:01.847 --> 00:34:03.697 We wanted our children to be a part of that. 00:34:03.697 --> 00:34:05.517 And I think that's really important. 00:34:06.327 --> 00:34:10.477 But back to the hypocrisy thing, you can't just send your kids to church and send 00:34:10.477 --> 00:34:15.327 them to the youth program and outside of church live a completely different life. 00:34:15.427 --> 00:34:19.637 you gotta be the example for them in how you live. 00:34:19.637 --> 00:34:21.247 and we certainly are not perfect. 00:34:21.247 --> 00:34:25.077 I'm not trying to say that, but, they're going to do what you do. 00:34:25.722 --> 00:34:30.052 And if it's bad, they're going to do what you do times 3 or 4 or 5 or 10. 00:34:30.062 --> 00:34:33.142 and if you do some good things, then they're going to see that and learn 00:34:33.142 --> 00:34:37.832 from that too, That's important. 00:34:37.872 --> 00:34:38.782 Raising children. 00:34:43.042 --> 00:34:44.182 Well, thank you for that. 00:34:45.262 --> 00:34:48.502 You know, one thing I try to remember to ask everybody is. 00:34:49.732 --> 00:34:54.262 Have there been any spiritual valleys that they've gone through? 00:34:54.862 --> 00:35:00.352 Any times that you've doubted the Lord or had challenges that you have struggled 00:35:00.382 --> 00:35:03.562 with, that he brought you through, that you would like to, to share. 00:35:05.227 --> 00:35:08.267 GMT20231218-140610_Recording_separate2: I think, as a young Christian, we 00:35:10.397 --> 00:35:14.059 GMT20231218-140610_Recording_separate1: through 00:35:14.147 --> 00:35:17.877 GMT20231218-140610_Recording_separate2: maybe we just hear that, if you. 00:35:18.727 --> 00:35:21.407 pray that God will answer your prayers. 00:35:21.897 --> 00:35:26.837 And I think as a young Christian, oftentimes God, you pray and God 00:35:26.947 --> 00:35:31.967 immediately answers your prayers and you say, wow, this is, God's really wonderful. 00:35:32.767 --> 00:35:35.737 I think as we start maturing as Christians, a lot of times we 00:35:35.737 --> 00:35:40.230 pray for things that we don't get answers to right away. 00:35:41.470 --> 00:35:48.000 And, I think, since I believe that God answers all our prayers, then 00:35:48.000 --> 00:35:54.520 there must be a reason why God doesn't always answer our prayers, immediately. 00:35:55.280 --> 00:35:59.830 And I think that it's because, he's trying to grow us. 00:35:59.880 --> 00:36:02.210 if you, every time you got on your knees, you pray for something 00:36:02.210 --> 00:36:08.380 and voila, it's there, then that doesn't take a lot of faith, um, 00:36:08.390 --> 00:36:10.910 but God wants to grow our faith. 00:36:10.960 --> 00:36:16.680 all of the Old Testament, all of the gospels are about growing our faith. 00:36:16.780 --> 00:36:22.350 And so as we mature, I think God holds some of the blessings back 00:36:22.350 --> 00:36:28.510 sometimes to see, we're gonna, we're gonna continue to have faith. 00:36:28.850 --> 00:36:31.495 Even though our prayers are not answered immediately. 00:36:33.775 --> 00:36:36.845 and there are a number of stories in the Bible. 00:36:36.845 --> 00:36:43.655 I was just reading again about Abraham and Sarah and how God, with withheld a child 00:36:43.715 --> 00:36:46.385 for a while and it just a test of faith. 00:36:46.390 --> 00:36:50.485 It was not only a test, it was also a time period of growth. 00:36:50.485 --> 00:36:52.495 And you know who you going to trust. 00:36:53.255 --> 00:36:54.005 you going to trust? 00:36:54.630 --> 00:36:58.910 What people say, are you going to trust what the physical circumstances are? 00:36:58.910 --> 00:36:59.940 Are you going to trust God? 00:36:59.940 --> 00:37:08.470 And so I think that as we mature in our faith, that God doesn't just 00:37:08.480 --> 00:37:09.960 answer all of our prayers immediately. 00:37:09.960 --> 00:37:13.020 He continues to answer some of our prayers immediately, but some He 00:37:13.020 --> 00:37:19.355 wants to grow us and It's, I think about the children of Israel as they 00:37:19.355 --> 00:37:25.435 left Egypt, and, God brought them out of Egypt, and yet they turned 00:37:25.445 --> 00:37:27.235 around, and here was Pharaoh's army. 00:37:28.630 --> 00:37:29.370 Following them. 00:37:29.850 --> 00:37:31.380 So why did God let that happen? 00:37:31.380 --> 00:37:33.520 I think he, it was a test of faith. 00:37:33.520 --> 00:37:37.820 It's, what I want you to learn, where I'm taking you, you need 00:37:37.820 --> 00:37:39.040 to learn to live by faith. 00:37:40.000 --> 00:37:46.440 And so after God destroyed the Egyptian army, he could have taken 00:37:46.440 --> 00:37:47.730 them right into the promised land. 00:37:47.730 --> 00:37:49.890 They could have been in the promised land in two weeks. 00:37:51.060 --> 00:37:53.230 And he took them out in the wilderness. 00:37:53.260 --> 00:37:58.180 Why did he take them out in the wilderness, I think it 00:37:58.180 --> 00:38:00.150 was to train them in faith. 00:38:00.190 --> 00:38:04.550 I think it was to prepare them for, a life of faith, which is what he 00:38:05.550 --> 00:38:09.080 wanted them to learn how to do, to trust in him and live by faith. 00:38:09.890 --> 00:38:16.000 And I think another example of why that's true is because when, after 00:38:16.050 --> 00:38:21.920 they were out in the wilderness for two years, um, God told them to send spies. 00:38:22.610 --> 00:38:28.510 into the promised land to check out the land, or maybe God didn't send them there. 00:38:28.550 --> 00:38:32.420 Maybe they just decided they were going to send spies before 00:38:32.420 --> 00:38:33.980 they went into the promised land. 00:38:34.710 --> 00:38:40.750 And when they came back, ten of them said, no way, we can't beat these, 00:38:40.800 --> 00:38:45.310 Philistines, these Canaanites, these, they're giants, we can't do that. 00:38:45.770 --> 00:38:50.980 And what it proved is most of the people had not learned how to live by faith, 00:38:51.090 --> 00:38:55.590 only two of them understood what God was trying to teach them in the wilderness. 00:38:55.590 --> 00:39:00.030 And so they ended up spending a lot more time in the wilderness because of 00:39:00.080 --> 00:39:04.840 their Unwillingness or their, whatever, they didn't grow in their faith. 00:39:04.840 --> 00:39:09.220 And I think God puts us into wilderness at times like that to grow our 00:39:09.220 --> 00:39:14.090 faith and see, okay, you say you believe and that you have faith. 00:39:14.140 --> 00:39:15.180 let's see if that's true. 00:39:15.680 --> 00:39:21.410 It's what he did to Job even um, or allowed to happen to Job is a 00:39:21.410 --> 00:39:25.210 test of whether he really had faith in God or if he had faith in the 00:39:25.220 --> 00:39:26.790 things that God had provided him. 00:39:27.470 --> 00:39:33.480 And of course we know that Job had faith in God far beyond his faith in the 00:39:33.550 --> 00:39:35.535 things that God had provided in his life. 00:39:37.430 --> 00:39:38.480 GMT20231218-140610_Recording_separate1: Yeah, that's great. 00:39:38.520 --> 00:39:40.540 I appreciate you sharing that. 00:39:40.540 --> 00:39:44.800 I was thinking about how, the Ten Spies, they came back and they said that, and we 00:39:44.800 --> 00:39:48.410 were as like grasshoppers in our own eyes. 00:39:49.290 --> 00:39:53.880 And they saw themselves in relation to the Giants as grasshoppers. 00:39:53.930 --> 00:40:00.545 And so that was a They weren't seeing themselves in their identity and God like 00:40:00.565 --> 00:40:02.935 David did when he went up against Goliath. 00:40:02.995 --> 00:40:07.075 David ran towards Goliath because his self image was God was with him. 00:40:07.075 --> 00:40:07.435 heh. 00:40:07.435 --> 00:40:11.555 And he, God was gonna do exactly what he was gonna do. 00:40:12.015 --> 00:40:18.335 And So that's a, I we could have a long discussion about identity in Christ, 00:40:18.335 --> 00:40:25.505 but it does make a huge difference how you view yourself in relation to God 00:40:25.505 --> 00:40:31.760 and how you react to the world in all these things we come up against in life. 00:40:32.540 --> 00:40:34.880 So that's awesome. 00:40:35.320 --> 00:40:40.190 it looks like we're about out of time, so I want to just ask you, if you only 00:40:40.190 --> 00:40:45.110 have one bit of wisdom to pass on to a future generation, Somebody who may be 00:40:45.160 --> 00:40:49.780 listening to this ten or twenty years from now, or even now, just a, any one bit 00:40:49.780 --> 00:40:55.500 of wisdom that you would, Want to share, hoping that people would really grasp, 00:40:56.430 --> 00:40:59.580 GMT20231218-140610_Recording_separate2: I think the only wisdom that I have 00:40:59.580 --> 00:41:04.990 is what I've learned from the Bible, and that is, if you want to have a 00:41:04.990 --> 00:41:08.090 successful life, fix your eyes on Christ. 00:41:08.550 --> 00:41:09.230 That's the key. 00:41:10.020 --> 00:41:14.456 Fix your eyes on Christ and live that way and, it's not my wisdom. 00:41:14.546 --> 00:41:15.896 I think it's God's wisdom. 00:41:17.846 --> 00:41:20.526 But I can't think of any other advice. 00:41:20.526 --> 00:41:24.636 I remember before I went off to West Point, Mama made that point. 00:41:24.676 --> 00:41:28.076 She said, Jamie, there'll be times where you can't do everything. 00:41:28.096 --> 00:41:30.556 you're gonna have more on you than you can bear. 00:41:30.986 --> 00:41:36.556 Can do and she says that's when you really got to put the other things aside 00:41:36.556 --> 00:41:43.826 and focus on Christ And she was right, I couldn't get those three great those 00:41:43.826 --> 00:41:48.466 three courses up by myself I just had to focus on Christ and do the best I 00:41:48.486 --> 00:41:53.966 could and I think that's to me that's the secret of life fix your eyes on Christ, 00:41:54.266 --> 00:41:56.186 we do that by focusing on the word. 00:41:56.856 --> 00:41:58.856 GMT20231218-140610_Recording_separate1: And you gave us a great visual 00:41:58.866 --> 00:42:03.626 with that tower you headed towards instead of following your own way. 00:42:03.816 --> 00:42:05.146 ha. 00:42:05.146 --> 00:42:05.906 That was great. 00:42:05.906 --> 00:42:08.916 would you pray for anybody who's listening now? 00:42:08.916 --> 00:42:13.586 There's somebody out there who, is, your, God's going to hear your 00:42:13.586 --> 00:42:16.156 prayer and answer it on their behalf. 00:42:16.966 --> 00:42:20.196 however the Holy Spirit leads you, pray for us. 00:42:20.906 --> 00:42:21.226 GMT20231218-140610_Recording_separate2: Okay. 00:42:21.226 --> 00:42:22.746 Be glad to Lord. 00:42:22.746 --> 00:42:25.806 We just thank you for our many wonderful blessings. 00:42:25.806 --> 00:42:30.366 And as I talked through my testimony and what you've done in my life, 00:42:32.191 --> 00:42:33.591 None of it is credit to me. 00:42:33.591 --> 00:42:37.271 It's all credit for you and what, the way you've cared for me and 00:42:37.271 --> 00:42:42.681 my family and, my parents and my siblings and my relatives such as you 00:42:42.681 --> 00:42:44.601 just been wonderful to our family. 00:42:44.601 --> 00:42:46.581 And I can't thank you enough. 00:42:46.581 --> 00:42:53.786 Lord, I really believe as I've said, Uh, over and over today is that, the secret 00:42:53.786 --> 00:42:58.456 to success in life is to fix our eyes on you to march towards you to work our 00:42:58.456 --> 00:43:03.426 way through life focused on you and you will help us deal with the obstacles. 00:43:03.426 --> 00:43:07.216 You'll make them much more easy to deal with. 00:43:08.026 --> 00:43:14.146 We don't have to depend on our own skills and our great intellect 00:43:14.146 --> 00:43:19.376 and wisdom and all those things that we think, can get us through. 00:43:19.916 --> 00:43:23.036 We can depend on you and you have all the resources we need. 00:43:23.886 --> 00:43:25.596 You have all the wisdom we need. 00:43:25.786 --> 00:43:29.626 You can see the future and know what's best for us. 00:43:30.826 --> 00:43:35.236 Just teach us, Lord, every day to fix our eyes on you, serve you, and 00:43:35.726 --> 00:43:40.226 become the righteous people you'd have us be, in Christ's name, amen. 00:43:40.850 --> 00:43:41.570 GMT20231218-140610_Recording_separate1: Amen. 00:43:42.220 --> 00:43:42.910 Thank you. 00:43:42.920 --> 00:43:45.620 you've really blessed me today, Jamie, and I'm sure you've 00:43:45.620 --> 00:43:47.210 blessed a lot of people out there. 00:43:47.760 --> 00:43:48.310 GMT20231218-140610_Recording_separate2: thank you. 00:43:48.310 --> 00:43:51.630 I appreciate you letting me be a part of this ministry. 00:43:51.740 --> 00:43:52.120 Thank you. 00:44:00.624 --> 00:44:02.844 CAILIN: We hope you've been blessed by today's story. 00:44:03.314 --> 00:44:07.024 In case you haven't noticed, there are no advertisements on this podcast 00:44:07.394 --> 00:44:08.944 and we hope to keep it that way. 00:44:09.604 --> 00:44:13.744 So if you've heard something that you think could help someone you know, please 00:44:13.754 --> 00:44:15.874 share it using the link in the show notes. 00:44:16.704 --> 00:44:21.054 Also, if you will give Faith and Purpose a positive review on your podcast platform, 00:44:21.484 --> 00:44:23.154 you could help more people find it. 00:44:23.734 --> 00:44:27.794 You will probably never know how that small effort can make a big 00:44:27.804 --> 00:44:29.394 difference in someone's life. 00:44:29.679 --> 00:44:31.359 But our Heavenly Father knows. 00:44:31.839 --> 00:44:36.689 Speaking of sharing, if you know a Jesus follower with a story to tell, please send 00:44:36.689 --> 00:44:39.089 them a link to Faith and Purpose Podcast. 00:44:39.569 --> 00:44:41.719 It may encourage them to tell their story. 00:44:42.149 --> 00:44:43.699 That person may even be you. 00:44:44.189 --> 00:44:47.349 Our only criteria is that Jesus be glorified. 00:44:48.109 --> 00:44:51.609 Most Christians don't share their faith because they mistakenly think 00:44:51.619 --> 00:44:53.959 their story is not interesting enough. 00:44:54.429 --> 00:44:56.799 Or that it's self centered to talk about themselves. 00:44:57.219 --> 00:45:01.029 Or that they are not competent to explain the gospel correctly. 00:45:01.479 --> 00:45:02.739 But none of that is relevant. 00:45:03.129 --> 00:45:06.579 If Jesus has changed your life, you have a story to tell. 00:45:07.489 --> 00:45:09.499 All of our stories are completely unique. 00:45:10.054 --> 00:45:14.784 No one has a story like yours, and you may be the only one who can reach someone 00:45:14.784 --> 00:45:17.144 else through telling your experience. 00:45:17.654 --> 00:45:20.054 All of our stories are completely unique. 00:45:20.404 --> 00:45:25.154 No one has a story like yours, and you may be the only one who can reach someone 00:45:25.154 --> 00:45:27.054 else through telling your experience. 00:45:27.474 --> 00:45:28.824 So don't be intimidated. 00:45:29.214 --> 00:45:33.514 A story is just that, a true account of your own experience. 00:45:33.929 --> 00:45:36.639 And no one can disagree with your experience. 00:45:37.539 --> 00:45:41.719 When we tell what Jesus has done in our lives, we are being obedient to his 00:45:41.719 --> 00:45:45.929 command to go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature. 00:45:46.349 --> 00:45:50.159 It's not about theology, and it's not about how interesting or special you are. 00:45:50.539 --> 00:45:52.399 It's all about Jesus. 00:45:52.974 --> 00:45:57.674 So when you're ready to tell how Jesus has impacted your life, you can let Jesse 00:45:57.674 --> 00:46:00.774 know at his ministry website, jesseduke. 00:46:00.814 --> 00:46:01.134 net. 00:46:01.684 --> 00:46:04.704 There you can download guidelines that will make it easy to 00:46:04.704 --> 00:46:06.244 prepare to tell your story. 00:46:06.774 --> 00:46:09.264 Thank you for listening today and Shalom.