WEBVTT 1 00:00:06.080 --> 00:00:09.519 Welcome to the DC Beer Show. I am your host for this 2 00:00:09.519 --> 00:00:13.200 panel, importing excellence, imported 3 00:00:13.200 --> 00:00:17.015 beer today and tomorrow. And I've got a star studded 4 00:00:17.015 --> 00:00:20.855 panel here for wonderful guests. I would say 5 00:00:20.855 --> 00:00:24.535 from around the world but maybe from North America and England is 6 00:00:24.535 --> 00:00:28.220 more accurate. TBD. I'll get back to us on that one. So, 7 00:00:28.540 --> 00:00:32.299 kicking off our panel we have Christian Gregory who started at Shelton 8 00:00:32.299 --> 00:00:35.980 Brothers in 2009 as the Belgian portfolio manager and 9 00:00:35.980 --> 00:00:39.660 gradually worked into an overarching supplier manager role until 10 00:00:39.660 --> 00:00:43.425 their doors closed in 2021. Christian started managing 11 00:00:43.425 --> 00:00:47.125 the US market for Drei Fonteinen immediately after and in 2023 12 00:00:47.265 --> 00:00:50.964 partnered with Drei Fonteinen to open their own self importing company, 13 00:00:51.184 --> 00:00:54.864 WILD Collective. WILD Collective? Wild Collect WILD 14 00:00:54.864 --> 00:00:58.230 Collective, but personally WILD Collective, Danka. 15 00:00:59.650 --> 00:01:03.190 They import only Dreyfontein and natural wine. 16 00:01:03.890 --> 00:01:07.729 I also have John Sten. He started driving the truck and working his way 17 00:01:07.729 --> 00:01:11.170 into sales with a local brewery. He worked as head of sales at Great Lakes 18 00:01:11.170 --> 00:01:14.955 Brewing Company for 10 years and has spent the last 20 years as 19 00:01:14.955 --> 00:01:18.555 a beer importer for Merchant du Vin, specializing in 20 00:01:18.555 --> 00:01:22.075 world class historic beers. In 2019, he was 21 00:01:22.075 --> 00:01:25.595 knighted in Brussels and was received into the brewers mash 22 00:01:25.595 --> 00:01:28.380 staff. John, welcome. Thank you. 23 00:01:29.160 --> 00:01:32.840 Alright. We also have Justin Hawk who founded Moor Beer Company in 24 00:01:32.840 --> 00:01:36.520 2007. Named for the Levels and Moors where it was originally 25 00:01:36.520 --> 00:01:39.880 based, Moor Beer has been credited with revolutionizing British 26 00:01:39.880 --> 00:01:43.615 Brewing. Winning more than a 100 medals for their top rated beers, 27 00:01:43.615 --> 00:01:47.295 Justin started the un fine beer movement creating a new vegan 28 00:01:47.295 --> 00:01:51.134 friendly beer segment as well as being recognized by the campaign for real 29 00:01:51.134 --> 00:01:54.835 ale better known as camera for brewing the first canned conditioned beers. 30 00:01:55.010 --> 00:01:58.850 All this earned Moor Beer, a golden award on Camera's 50th anniversary, as 31 00:01:58.850 --> 00:02:02.530 well as the British Guild of Beer Writers naming Justin as brewer of the 32 00:02:02.530 --> 00:02:06.290 year in 2017. Originally from California, Justin 33 00:02:06.290 --> 00:02:10.115 graduated from West Point and was stationed in Germany, finally settling in England to 34 00:02:10.115 --> 00:02:13.815 found his brewery based on the influences from those great brewing locations. 35 00:02:14.275 --> 00:02:17.955 More beer are respected globally for both their ale and lager programs. The 36 00:02:17.955 --> 00:02:21.510 brewery was expanded and moved to Bristol in 2014 and has 2 tap 37 00:02:21.510 --> 00:02:25.270 rooms, 1 in Bristol and 1 in London which have become hubs and do it 38 00:02:25.270 --> 00:02:28.730 your of the do it yourself music scene for both local and international 39 00:02:28.950 --> 00:02:32.790 bands. Finally, we have Ryan Dorosky who's the mid 40 00:02:32.790 --> 00:02:36.605 Atlantic sales rep for D and V International Celebrating their 25th year in the 41 00:02:36.605 --> 00:02:40.385 business, D and V International import, Saint Bernardis, Bauhuy Verhey, 42 00:02:40.605 --> 00:02:44.205 Val Dieu, and a handful of other world class European 43 00:02:44.205 --> 00:02:47.885 breweries. Ryan has been in the role for the past 2 years, previously working for 44 00:02:47.885 --> 00:02:51.640 Remarkable Liquids Distribution in New Jersey, where where he discovered the DMV 45 00:02:51.640 --> 00:02:55.400 portfolio and his love for Belgian beers. Just 46 00:02:55.400 --> 00:02:59.160 before we get going, I'm gonna butcher every name, not in English, some names 47 00:02:59.160 --> 00:03:02.540 in English as well as French, German, Dutch, 48 00:03:02.680 --> 00:03:06.284 Flanders. So just a precursor there. Let's get 49 00:03:06.284 --> 00:03:10.045 into the meat of our show, which is import 50 00:03:10.045 --> 00:03:13.025 hurdles. What are some of the biggest hurdles you've experienced 51 00:03:13.564 --> 00:03:16.704 importing beer from England or Germany or Belgium? 52 00:03:17.805 --> 00:03:21.450 I guess being the, the brewer, I see see the other side of it. 53 00:03:22.569 --> 00:03:25.629 So, unfortunately, in the UK, we have something now called Brexit. 54 00:03:26.330 --> 00:03:30.090 So we separated from the European Union and that's created a huge number 55 00:03:30.090 --> 00:03:33.530 of problems for us exporting to to different markets, 56 00:03:33.530 --> 00:03:37.275 obviously, not to the US. But, yeah, the US, 57 00:03:37.275 --> 00:03:41.035 obviously, the the challenge that we've got here is the disparity between the the 58 00:03:41.035 --> 00:03:44.815 pound and the dollar, so our beers would be considered relatively expensive 59 00:03:45.115 --> 00:03:48.959 for beers that are meant to be sessionable and highly drinkable. So 60 00:03:48.959 --> 00:03:52.260 that's, you know, one of the things to overcome, but quality is worth paying for. 61 00:03:52.560 --> 00:03:55.940 Well said. Thank you, Justin. Import hurdles. 62 00:03:56.080 --> 00:03:59.920 Christian, what are some of the biggest hurdles you have to jump over to bring 63 00:03:59.920 --> 00:04:03.565 Belgian beer into the US? Well, I'll deviate since I know these guys 64 00:04:03.565 --> 00:04:06.845 both work with a lot of Belgian breweries. When I was at Sheldon Brothers, we 65 00:04:06.845 --> 00:04:10.605 worked with Japanese and Kiwi breweries, and it was just 66 00:04:10.605 --> 00:04:14.365 so difficult to get the logistics straight for those because the demand is only so 67 00:04:14.365 --> 00:04:17.010 high for these niche beers for, 68 00:04:18.450 --> 00:04:22.130 Japanese hop lager, for example. So you can only take over so 69 00:04:22.130 --> 00:04:25.650 much, but at the same time, you need to fill a container to make sense 70 00:04:25.650 --> 00:04:29.030 of your freight costs. So, yeah, I would say 71 00:04:29.745 --> 00:04:33.585 matching your freight with your demand and making sure you're not yeah. 72 00:04:33.585 --> 00:04:36.865 It it's like walking a line, I guess, with those. It's it's was always much 73 00:04:36.865 --> 00:04:40.705 easier for us coming from Europe in terms of the logistics side. So, yeah, that's 74 00:04:40.705 --> 00:04:44.130 the one that sticks out to me. Well said. John, how about you? What are 75 00:04:44.130 --> 00:04:47.729 some of the hurdles you have to jump over? Well, it's a good question because, 76 00:04:47.729 --> 00:04:51.410 you know, the first thing is we don't own our breweries, and they're gonna make 77 00:04:51.410 --> 00:04:54.865 their own decisions on how they wanna do things. So trying to 78 00:04:54.865 --> 00:04:58.545 translate what they think is effective for their markets, and we're talking about breweries that 79 00:04:58.545 --> 00:05:02.225 have been open for 100 and 100 of years who really don't care for 80 00:05:02.225 --> 00:05:06.065 what we do in America, so their packages aren't the same 81 00:05:06.065 --> 00:05:09.720 size. We got 20 bottle cases, 24 bottle 82 00:05:09.720 --> 00:05:13.419 cases, 12 bottle cases, 11.2 ounce bottles, 14.9 83 00:05:13.720 --> 00:05:17.240 ounce cans. We've got 16.9 ounce bottles, and then 84 00:05:17.240 --> 00:05:20.520 marketing and different things you have to do. And you guys brought up shipping and 85 00:05:20.520 --> 00:05:24.324 the cost of shipping as well, and the buying the pound to 86 00:05:24.324 --> 00:05:27.785 buy a case. All of that though are 87 00:05:28.485 --> 00:05:32.245 problems that grow to when it hits the shore here in the United States 88 00:05:32.245 --> 00:05:35.980 and trying to then negotiate with the distributor to keep all 89 00:05:35.980 --> 00:05:39.360 these breweries in different packages in. And so 90 00:05:39.980 --> 00:05:43.420 those are the biggest hurdles. All the little ones that they 91 00:05:43.420 --> 00:05:47.260 create, since we don't own the breweries and we're on their time schedules, then 92 00:05:47.260 --> 00:05:50.915 trying to talk to somebody over here in America to pay more money for the 93 00:05:50.915 --> 00:05:53.815 beer before it even gets to retail 94 00:05:54.595 --> 00:05:58.355 and getting it as fresh as possible. So, you 95 00:05:58.355 --> 00:06:02.199 know, it's it's not an easy business, but, you know, sowing 96 00:06:02.199 --> 00:06:05.159 beer is a contact sport. So that's why they only have the best people doing 97 00:06:05.159 --> 00:06:08.759 it. That's right. And I wanna thank you all for not having extra 98 00:06:08.759 --> 00:06:12.599 sharp elbows as you gain market share. Ryan, 99 00:06:12.599 --> 00:06:16.385 tell us a little bit about, Belgian imports and what you do 100 00:06:16.385 --> 00:06:19.845 at DMV. What are some of the hurdles and how have you overcome them? 101 00:06:20.225 --> 00:06:23.985 Yeah. Absolutely. So I think John made a great point that, the 102 00:06:23.985 --> 00:06:27.765 format issue, between the traditions and cultures 103 00:06:27.825 --> 00:06:31.530 and standard formatting in Europe and Belgium and translating that 104 00:06:31.530 --> 00:06:35.370 into the US market. That's definitely, a big hurdle we all 105 00:06:35.370 --> 00:06:39.050 face and trying to, educate the market and 106 00:06:39.050 --> 00:06:42.490 distributors as a whole as to, what we have 107 00:06:42.490 --> 00:06:46.115 available. And then on the flip side, logistics and timeline, 108 00:06:46.254 --> 00:06:49.775 that's one of the biggest hurdles we face. The recent port strike, 109 00:06:50.014 --> 00:06:53.294 was a big mess and, I know everyone's really affected if you're coming to the 110 00:06:53.294 --> 00:06:57.134 Port of New York or really anywhere on the East Coast. So trying 111 00:06:57.134 --> 00:07:00.740 to time things out, keep beers in stock depending on the 112 00:07:00.740 --> 00:07:04.420 season, and it does take so long for that beer to 113 00:07:04.420 --> 00:07:07.940 get made on a boat over to the port, and 114 00:07:07.940 --> 00:07:11.300 keeping keeping the popular skews in stock as long as some of the 115 00:07:11.300 --> 00:07:15.074 esoteric and and keeping that, liquid in the market, while 116 00:07:15.074 --> 00:07:18.854 also trying to have that beer come from a foreign country across the pond. 117 00:07:19.155 --> 00:07:22.115 That's always a bit of a challenge and a hurdle. So trying to look down 118 00:07:22.115 --> 00:07:25.794 the line, see what we need, and keep the best forecast 119 00:07:25.794 --> 00:07:29.340 possible. That's that's really a hurdle. Yeah. I I wanted to say thank you 120 00:07:29.340 --> 00:07:33.020 Ryan for opening the port back up. You solved the strike single 121 00:07:33.020 --> 00:07:36.640 handedly. You were in Louisiana. You were in Baltimore. Thank you. 122 00:07:37.100 --> 00:07:40.620 But in all seriousness, we did hear that that's why we are not having some 123 00:07:40.620 --> 00:07:44.465 Franconian, stitch fast gravity fed, lager 124 00:07:44.465 --> 00:07:48.005 kegs because, because of the the port strike, which is now resolved. 125 00:07:48.225 --> 00:07:52.065 So we'll work through that. Hard to look into the the glass ball 126 00:07:52.065 --> 00:07:55.639 and see. But I'm gonna ask you guys, looking at import beer 127 00:07:55.639 --> 00:07:59.479 today, do you think import beer is in decline or does it chart a 128 00:07:59.479 --> 00:08:03.100 growth path? Does it somehow feel steadier than, say, domestic beer 129 00:08:03.400 --> 00:08:07.240 who just, not that long ago, we heard from the beer institute had a 130 00:08:07.240 --> 00:08:10.735 7.7% decline. Do you 131 00:08:10.735 --> 00:08:14.335 see imports taking a 7.7% decline or do you think you 132 00:08:14.335 --> 00:08:17.315 can carve out a path of growth or at least stability, 133 00:08:18.815 --> 00:08:22.560 comparatively to domestic beer? Yeah. So that's a that's a really 134 00:08:22.720 --> 00:08:26.240 interesting question for us. We're seeing growth because we had, 135 00:08:26.560 --> 00:08:30.240 been out of the US market for a little bit when, when when 136 00:08:30.240 --> 00:08:34.020 Sheldon folded. But that also timed, if you think about it, with COVID. 137 00:08:34.320 --> 00:08:37.705 So that's that was really the problem is COVID just 138 00:08:37.705 --> 00:08:41.544 completely changed everything. All of the markets we operated in, 139 00:08:41.544 --> 00:08:45.385 no one could import or do anything. Everyone went hyper local, so which 140 00:08:45.385 --> 00:08:49.065 is great. You wanna support your local brewer, but obviously, 141 00:08:49.065 --> 00:08:52.899 after a bit of time, you want to have access to things that, 142 00:08:53.279 --> 00:08:57.040 you know, you used you couldn't get for a while and you wanna 143 00:08:57.040 --> 00:09:00.480 start to drink again. So it's great to have the variety, definitely support your local 144 00:09:00.480 --> 00:09:03.755 brewers and, you know, we all benefit from that. But 145 00:09:03.975 --> 00:09:07.495 there's things that, you know, we as a brewer do that don't get done locally 146 00:09:07.495 --> 00:09:10.135 here, so the only way to do it is to, you know, come to us. 147 00:09:10.135 --> 00:09:12.475 Same thing with the the Lambics and and whatnot. 148 00:09:14.295 --> 00:09:17.895 Thanks, Justin. Christian, what's your take? Are are we gonna nose dive 149 00:09:17.895 --> 00:09:21.570 imports? The 7.7% the beer institute, told us 150 00:09:21.570 --> 00:09:24.950 about? Or do you think you can chart stability in these 151 00:09:25.170 --> 00:09:28.770 times in the future? So I feel like imports started feeling it 152 00:09:28.770 --> 00:09:32.225 earlier than the rest of the industry. So we I mean, we were having this 153 00:09:32.225 --> 00:09:35.745 meteoric rise in, say, 2012 and later 154 00:09:35.745 --> 00:09:39.105 on. And then with the sort of saturation of the US 155 00:09:39.105 --> 00:09:42.785 market, people's interest in imports sort of tapered a little bit. 156 00:09:43.345 --> 00:09:46.769 And then just industry wide, and I can say this on the beer and the 157 00:09:46.769 --> 00:09:50.529 sort of natural wine side. It's just a universal decline for everyone. 158 00:09:50.529 --> 00:09:54.209 So I don't really it might be a little bit less of a hit just 159 00:09:54.209 --> 00:09:57.970 because we've already taken that hit in advance, but I think the hit 160 00:09:57.970 --> 00:10:01.695 is coming from changes in lifestyle and habits and 161 00:10:01.695 --> 00:10:04.835 spending and so on and so forth. So I we're certainly not immune to it. 162 00:10:05.935 --> 00:10:09.395 In terms of, like, I can speak to Lambic specifically, and it's 163 00:10:09.935 --> 00:10:13.695 it's so we're in a weird place because we're sort of not quite what people 164 00:10:13.695 --> 00:10:17.470 expect of beer, And then wine drinkers don't really know what it is either even 165 00:10:17.470 --> 00:10:20.850 though the process after the brew day is way more similar to wine making. 166 00:10:21.389 --> 00:10:25.009 So for our side of things, we've been pivoting more and more towards, 167 00:10:26.029 --> 00:10:29.575 marketing to wine folks who are into things that are 168 00:10:29.575 --> 00:10:32.935 made naturally, where that they they care where it came from, they care about the 169 00:10:32.935 --> 00:10:36.055 story behind it, and so on and so forth. So we've been able to mitigate 170 00:10:36.055 --> 00:10:39.654 some of the losses by sort of opening up our market to people who just 171 00:10:39.735 --> 00:10:43.275 maybe they're not interested in an IPA or a stout or whatever, but 172 00:10:43.890 --> 00:10:47.590 we fit in somehow there. So that's that's been the the strategy, 173 00:10:47.650 --> 00:10:51.490 I guess, to to even things out a little bit. I can't say 174 00:10:51.490 --> 00:10:54.930 whether it's gonna succeed in the long term, but that's kind of our best, our 175 00:10:54.930 --> 00:10:57.730 best bet right now and it's a natural fit. So it's just kind of the 176 00:10:57.730 --> 00:11:01.545 the organic progression of things for us. Well said. John, what 177 00:11:01.545 --> 00:11:04.845 do you see with, brewers? You you obviously have producers, 178 00:11:06.025 --> 00:11:09.645 not necessarily in in Lambic country but, in England, 179 00:11:10.425 --> 00:11:13.405 you know, the British Isles, in Germany and eyeing. 180 00:11:14.459 --> 00:11:18.220 What's the report, you know, from from eyeing Germany or 181 00:11:18.220 --> 00:11:21.820 from other other places around the world? Is is there stability or can they even 182 00:11:21.820 --> 00:11:24.640 carve out growth or are people prepping for a decline? 183 00:11:26.140 --> 00:11:29.975 Well, each brewery is different. You know, we have an umbrella at Merchant 184 00:11:29.975 --> 00:11:33.035 of Inn. We offer brands from England, Scotland, Belgium, 185 00:11:33.654 --> 00:11:37.415 Germany. For instance, the Germans are doing 186 00:11:37.415 --> 00:11:40.394 really well and growing and they've been growing for about 10 years straight. 187 00:11:41.830 --> 00:11:45.130 Their their success has been basically consistency. 188 00:11:45.910 --> 00:11:49.430 The Trappist Monasteries as well are growing but, you know, they don't need to 189 00:11:49.430 --> 00:11:52.490 grow meteorically. Just nice, considerate, 190 00:11:53.110 --> 00:11:56.250 simple growth every year is what the monasteries want. 191 00:11:56.845 --> 00:12:00.145 Lampic breweries like Linenmens and stuff like that from COVID 192 00:12:00.445 --> 00:12:03.345 spiked really high then fell off when the rubber band snapped 193 00:12:04.205 --> 00:12:07.905 afterwards. So for each brewery it's a different program. 194 00:12:08.900 --> 00:12:12.340 What we've tried to do at Merchant of Inn is be as consistent as we 195 00:12:12.340 --> 00:12:15.480 can on pricing, be as consistent as we can on education. 196 00:12:15.940 --> 00:12:19.700 Because for the reason why imports were important 30 197 00:12:19.700 --> 00:12:23.445 years ago and 40 50 years ago, is why they're important today. 198 00:12:24.065 --> 00:12:27.665 You know, none of these American craft breweries would be here today if it wasn't 199 00:12:27.665 --> 00:12:31.505 for English breweries. Samuel Smith was the only brewery in the world making 200 00:12:31.505 --> 00:12:35.200 an oatmeal stout in 1979. And they started sharing 201 00:12:35.200 --> 00:12:38.880 the recipe with breweries that we're opening in the United States. So 202 00:12:38.880 --> 00:12:42.480 if you wanna have a bar that has a full menu, then you need to 203 00:12:42.480 --> 00:12:45.920 have some imports. And on the import side, like 204 00:12:45.920 --> 00:12:49.525 myself, the guys at DMV, at guys at Duval and stuff, 205 00:12:49.525 --> 00:12:53.365 we've started working together and doing some marketing programs and stuff 206 00:12:53.365 --> 00:12:56.965 where we kinda work together at Total Wines and Wegmans and different chains to bring 207 00:12:56.965 --> 00:13:00.185 more eyes together as a group on brands. 208 00:13:00.560 --> 00:13:04.260 So we'll all weather the storm that after COVID that we've had, 209 00:13:04.560 --> 00:13:08.399 and we'll weather the, you know, this craft storm by 210 00:13:08.399 --> 00:13:11.920 having great products, great stories, and basically, breweries that 211 00:13:11.920 --> 00:13:15.275 invented the styles of beer that are being brewed here in the United States 212 00:13:15.275 --> 00:13:19.115 today. So will it be tough times? There always is. Will 213 00:13:19.115 --> 00:13:22.475 there be good times? Yes. So but consistency is the 214 00:13:22.475 --> 00:13:26.235 answer, and really being a good partner to your distributors is what's gonna 215 00:13:26.235 --> 00:13:29.890 bring, you know, the ball across the line. So there you go. Yeah 216 00:13:29.890 --> 00:13:33.730 well said. Ryan I want to ask you, you're welcome to touch on the last 217 00:13:33.730 --> 00:13:37.190 question, but I was thinking I would ask you to look into your crystal 218 00:13:37.730 --> 00:13:41.490 ball. Looking at the future of imported beer, what do you see on the 219 00:13:41.490 --> 00:13:45.154 horizon? So for the future of imported beer, I 220 00:13:45.154 --> 00:13:48.755 see, some type of modernization appealing to the 221 00:13:48.755 --> 00:13:52.274 demographic that are essentially entering their prime drinking age, that 222 00:13:52.274 --> 00:13:55.975 25 to 35 demographic. Here in the US, 223 00:13:56.595 --> 00:14:00.050 people generally in that age range, they grew up in the craft beer 224 00:14:00.050 --> 00:14:03.810 boom. So they've been to all the hype breweries. They've 225 00:14:03.810 --> 00:14:07.570 had every style of American beer possible and giving them an offering 226 00:14:07.570 --> 00:14:11.225 from an old world brewery that is 3, 4, 5 generations 227 00:14:11.365 --> 00:14:15.205 deep, 100 of years old possibly. We have a new offering to 228 00:14:15.205 --> 00:14:18.905 give you that is world class liquid and it's something new and exciting 229 00:14:19.045 --> 00:14:22.470 to them, because they grew up in that craft beer boom and now they have 230 00:14:22.470 --> 00:14:26.170 an opportunity to explore the old world classics from Belgium, 231 00:14:26.230 --> 00:14:29.589 Germany, anything in Europe essentially. And it's a 232 00:14:29.589 --> 00:14:33.050 fantastic offering of liquid to a very educated 233 00:14:33.190 --> 00:14:36.915 market. Anyone in that demographic has been to 234 00:14:36.915 --> 00:14:40.275 dozens and dozens of brewery in in 21 plus drinking age. 235 00:14:40.275 --> 00:14:43.875 So, having a a really high high end 236 00:14:43.875 --> 00:14:47.715 liquid to give them with a fantastic story behind it, really draws in the 237 00:14:47.715 --> 00:14:51.230 crowd. It's something different, something unique and for imports 238 00:14:51.230 --> 00:14:54.750 especially at D and V that's our main goal, is to attract that younger 239 00:14:54.750 --> 00:14:58.350 younger demographic, whether that's a different 240 00:14:58.350 --> 00:15:01.810 skew that comes out that is geared more towards their drinking palate. 241 00:15:02.110 --> 00:15:05.845 We have some some fruit forward sours or, some fruited 242 00:15:05.845 --> 00:15:09.524 whip beers or collaborations that are coming out and trying to 243 00:15:09.524 --> 00:15:13.204 draw the eye and essentially draw the wallet of of that younger 244 00:15:13.204 --> 00:15:16.885 demographic and and get them involved and and get the liquid to lips 245 00:15:16.885 --> 00:15:20.600 and really expose them to the world of import beers. I 246 00:15:20.600 --> 00:15:24.440 do love it when I meet someone who's a little older than half 247 00:15:24.440 --> 00:15:28.120 my age and says what is Saint Bernardis? I've never heard of it or what's 248 00:15:28.120 --> 00:15:31.480 Dre Fontaine and what is this beer that comes in a champagne bottle? Tell me 249 00:15:31.480 --> 00:15:34.895 about it. I love that. Justin, I'm gonna ask you the same question. Looking into 250 00:15:34.895 --> 00:15:38.655 your crystal ball, I know the last time we had some email correspondence, we 251 00:15:38.655 --> 00:15:42.275 talked about actually bringing the ABV of of some already sessionable 252 00:15:42.335 --> 00:15:46.175 beers down. What do you see on the horizon for more beer? Yeah. 253 00:15:46.175 --> 00:15:49.850 So we have always tried to infuse the three 254 00:15:49.850 --> 00:15:53.470 influences. So coming from California, I tend to pick up the flavor, 255 00:15:54.089 --> 00:15:57.550 with things the German side of things was all about being 256 00:15:57.610 --> 00:16:01.450 natural, kind of more Rhineheitsgebot, which got us onto the the unfined bit, 257 00:16:01.450 --> 00:16:04.865 which at the time was pretty revolutionary in the UK to serve something that was 258 00:16:04.865 --> 00:16:07.925 hazy. Not hazy in the way that we would call it now, 259 00:16:08.464 --> 00:16:12.064 but 17 years ago, it was a it was a different thing. They they 260 00:16:12.064 --> 00:16:15.665 definitely have. And then the British side combining the real ale 261 00:16:15.665 --> 00:16:19.290 secondary fermentation, the natural carbonation that you get. So our 262 00:16:19.290 --> 00:16:22.510 beers are kind of, they bring those three things together, 263 00:16:23.050 --> 00:16:26.810 in a way that that we and our our fans kind of think 264 00:16:26.810 --> 00:16:30.350 is, is a bit unique and we do it 265 00:16:30.490 --> 00:16:34.185 most of the time in a very sessionable way. So our beers start 266 00:16:34.345 --> 00:16:37.945 I mean, actually, sometimes they're down about 2 a half percent, but our core beers 267 00:16:37.945 --> 00:16:41.625 go from 3.4% up and I'd say the bulk of 268 00:16:41.625 --> 00:16:45.065 it sort of 3.44%, 4.1. Those are like our 269 00:16:45.065 --> 00:16:48.690 bestsellers and we always like to say, you know, we 270 00:16:48.690 --> 00:16:52.370 judge a beer by can you drink 10 pints of it? And I wanna drink 271 00:16:52.370 --> 00:16:56.210 10 pints of a 4.1. I don't always wanna drink 10 pints of 272 00:16:56.210 --> 00:16:59.810 a 9% beer and our pints are 20 ounces, so a lot 273 00:16:59.810 --> 00:17:03.555 bigger. Well said. I I want 10 pints of a 9% beer over 274 00:17:03.555 --> 00:17:07.395 10 to 12 days. That's that's what I want. Christian, I'm gonna 275 00:17:07.395 --> 00:17:11.075 ask you similarly. Reading the crystal ball, reading the tea leaves, you spill the 276 00:17:11.075 --> 00:17:14.099 coffee rinds out, what do you see coming down the pike, 277 00:17:15.039 --> 00:17:18.579 particularly with with, Villed Collective and and the importation? 278 00:17:19.440 --> 00:17:22.000 I guess I just jumped ahead on the last question a little bit because we 279 00:17:22.000 --> 00:17:25.839 are trying to pivot more toward people who just haven't discovered what traditional 280 00:17:25.839 --> 00:17:29.615 Lambic is. I think most people's impression of 281 00:17:29.615 --> 00:17:33.135 Lambic is Linda Mann's, which I think is broadly it has a huge 282 00:17:33.135 --> 00:17:36.274 appeal, across the board and ours is much more, say, niche. 283 00:17:36.654 --> 00:17:40.495 It's, some it's pretty polarizing, I think, on first taste because people 284 00:17:40.495 --> 00:17:43.110 don't know what they're getting into and some people love it, some people don't. So, 285 00:17:43.670 --> 00:17:47.429 yeah. Pivoting toward the the wider market, 286 00:17:47.429 --> 00:17:51.030 whether it's restaurants or or wine folks or whatever, I or cider 287 00:17:51.030 --> 00:17:54.390 drinkers, actually. There there's so many similarities there. So 288 00:17:54.390 --> 00:17:57.610 that's the direction we see ourselves going, I would say. 289 00:17:58.605 --> 00:18:02.125 And then I I would just add to, my wife also works for Lime Ventures 290 00:18:02.125 --> 00:18:05.265 Importing, so I hear what they're doing, you know, 291 00:18:06.525 --> 00:18:10.365 with various Belgian breweries, with Justin's beer, with more beer, etcetera. And I 292 00:18:10.365 --> 00:18:13.780 will say that they've already seen a sort of trend, at least on the West 293 00:18:13.780 --> 00:18:17.540 Coast starting where there is more interest, in sort of 294 00:18:17.540 --> 00:18:20.920 balanced classic nuanced beers as opposed to, 295 00:18:22.340 --> 00:18:26.088 more hops, more alcohol, more whatever. So, yeah, I do 296 00:18:26.115 --> 00:18:29.955 I definitely see it going toward, you know, people's palates getting refined and wanting something 297 00:18:29.955 --> 00:18:33.795 that's less of a, what am I trying 298 00:18:33.795 --> 00:18:37.555 to say without being insulting? But less, 299 00:18:37.715 --> 00:18:41.020 we'll just say gimmickry, I guess, and more about, like, what do you actually want 300 00:18:41.020 --> 00:18:44.860 to sit down and drink with dinner or, like Justin said, have a few glasses 301 00:18:44.860 --> 00:18:47.900 of instead of one that's gonna zonk you out. So, 302 00:18:48.620 --> 00:18:51.840 yeah. I I see people getting more refined, I guess, in that sense. 303 00:18:52.460 --> 00:18:56.184 What what do you think, John? It's a big question. You know, everybody's trying to 304 00:18:56.184 --> 00:18:59.304 look for that magic, you know, that that that magic wand to get the answer. 305 00:18:59.304 --> 00:19:02.665 Lindeman's is gonna be coming out with an 8% of fruit 306 00:19:02.665 --> 00:19:06.184 beer this coming year. You know, breweries like 307 00:19:06.184 --> 00:19:09.840 Iyengar and Sam Smith though are just this is 308 00:19:09.840 --> 00:19:12.559 what we do and this is what we've always done, and that's what it's gonna 309 00:19:12.559 --> 00:19:16.260 be. You know? So everybody's gotta find what works for them. 310 00:19:16.640 --> 00:19:20.100 I do see, though, right or wrong, I do see 311 00:19:20.320 --> 00:19:24.015 less new brands coming to America from Europe. I say 312 00:19:24.015 --> 00:19:26.915 they're gonna stick with core brands, core breweries, 313 00:19:27.695 --> 00:19:31.455 and, you know, ourselves will have to work together and find how to do 314 00:19:31.455 --> 00:19:35.055 that together, you know, in a nice way. Like, you know, for instance, Linenman's has 315 00:19:35.055 --> 00:19:38.675 given Lambeth to 3 Fontanen for years to keep them going. 316 00:19:38.880 --> 00:19:42.480 You know, people rip for Linenans because they say it's Kool Aid and everything but, 317 00:19:42.480 --> 00:19:46.100 you know, the the biggest Lambic brewer in the world. So 318 00:19:46.560 --> 00:19:49.280 but they're the ones brewing all the beer for everybody else. We're gonna have to 319 00:19:49.280 --> 00:19:52.745 start doing things like that over here for people where we're working together. 320 00:19:53.205 --> 00:19:56.405 We're we're bringing people to do a tour of Lineman's and then go to see 321 00:19:56.405 --> 00:20:00.085 Saint Bernard's and then go see 33 Fontanin and then go 322 00:20:00.085 --> 00:20:02.565 over and go see this guy and then go over and see that guy. You 323 00:20:02.565 --> 00:20:06.260 know what I mean? But I do see less you know, when you go 324 00:20:06.260 --> 00:20:09.300 to the 3, the weekend of the beer, you'll see breweries you've never heard of 325 00:20:09.300 --> 00:20:12.340 that are just popping up in Belgium. I don't see them coming to United States 326 00:20:12.340 --> 00:20:15.460 anytime soon because they don't have the pedigree and they don't have the story and 327 00:20:15.460 --> 00:20:18.885 the history behind them. And so you're not gonna see many 328 00:20:18.885 --> 00:20:22.485 retailers willing to give a try to somebody. Yeah. 329 00:20:22.804 --> 00:20:26.005 Yeah. So knock on wood. Things will, 330 00:20:26.325 --> 00:20:29.605 will pan out for us in a couple years and we'll see how it all 331 00:20:29.605 --> 00:20:33.150 works. The biggest thing, we gotta get people drinking beer though. We gotta get 332 00:20:33.150 --> 00:20:36.670 people out of drinking, you know, the soda waters that have alcohol on them, and 333 00:20:36.670 --> 00:20:40.350 we gotta start drinking beer. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I think that's a really good point 334 00:20:40.350 --> 00:20:43.790 about the overall pie and market share is how do you lure 335 00:20:43.790 --> 00:20:47.245 the, RTD cocktail drinker, this hard 336 00:20:47.245 --> 00:20:51.085 seltzer drinker in back into beer and it's there. And I 337 00:20:51.085 --> 00:20:54.365 think to your point, it's easier to revive brands that have been in the States 338 00:20:54.365 --> 00:20:58.205 for a little while easier than to get somebody who's just starting out 339 00:20:58.205 --> 00:21:01.940 to to export or import them to the states. And I have 340 00:21:01.940 --> 00:21:05.460 to credit you for for mentioning the collective that the tie in between, 341 00:21:05.700 --> 00:21:09.220 Lindemann's and Dre Fontana. I totally forgotten about that. Shame on 342 00:21:09.220 --> 00:21:12.794 me. But it's also bearing out in US craft 343 00:21:12.794 --> 00:21:16.394 brewing where we're seeing small breweries, if not 344 00:21:16.394 --> 00:21:19.835 merge or acquire come into a partnership with other breweries. We 345 00:21:19.835 --> 00:21:23.674 just saw one in Boston or Massachusetts last week, we've seen it in New 346 00:21:23.674 --> 00:21:26.315 Jersey, kinda all up and down at least the East Coast and a little bit 347 00:21:26.315 --> 00:21:29.410 into the South as well. But I digress. 348 00:21:30.430 --> 00:21:34.110 My next question is is a bit of a wild I'm gonna put you on 349 00:21:34.110 --> 00:21:37.790 the spot and ask you what's the hardest country to export out 350 00:21:37.790 --> 00:21:41.435 of, to import into? I'll I'll give the 351 00:21:41.435 --> 00:21:44.175 backdrop that, I know a brewer in Moldova 352 00:21:45.515 --> 00:21:49.195 and he loves to bring new beer to market. So 353 00:21:49.195 --> 00:21:52.795 he's more sort of the, the blue jacket cushoire or other 354 00:21:52.795 --> 00:21:56.429 half locally And he goes to the state technical 355 00:21:56.730 --> 00:22:00.250 office and he gives, the Babichka's there, the 356 00:22:00.250 --> 00:22:03.770 grandmothers that work in the state office, a pale ale. And they 357 00:22:03.770 --> 00:22:07.610 say, Sergei, this pale ale is full of oranges, but you have no 358 00:22:07.610 --> 00:22:11.345 oranges on the label. What the hell is this? And he just says, oh, well, 359 00:22:11.345 --> 00:22:15.105 it's it's cascade and citra hops and they give flavor to this. So every 360 00:22:15.105 --> 00:22:18.304 time Sergei wants to release a new beer, he's gotta go sweet talk their grandmothers 361 00:22:18.304 --> 00:22:21.825 at the state run laboratory. So I just thought I would share that little 362 00:22:21.825 --> 00:22:25.500 tidbit. But I'm curious from you, have have you had some real 363 00:22:25.500 --> 00:22:29.100 difficulty getting beer out of a country or getting beer into a country? If so, 364 00:22:29.100 --> 00:22:32.800 where were they or or what was that about? I'll probably 365 00:22:33.020 --> 00:22:36.540 leave this one to you guys to answer more, more late because 366 00:22:36.700 --> 00:22:40.355 yeah. We have exported to, I'd say, 367 00:22:40.355 --> 00:22:44.135 over 30 different countries around the globe at different times, but that's definitely 368 00:22:44.195 --> 00:22:47.795 post COVID and post Brexit has contracted quite a bit to the 369 00:22:47.795 --> 00:22:51.570 markets where, yeah, we're we're respected and I have 370 00:22:51.570 --> 00:22:55.090 heritage as a brand. I always built more because I wanted it to be one 371 00:22:55.090 --> 00:22:58.450 of those classic brands that will be here in a 100 years' time that people 372 00:22:58.450 --> 00:23:01.905 use as a reference and, you know, for me as a drinker, I still go 373 00:23:01.905 --> 00:23:05.425 back to the classic Belgian beers. I still go into Samuel Smith pubs back 374 00:23:05.425 --> 00:23:09.025 home, Fuller's, even though they got bought out by Asahi. You know, I 375 00:23:09.025 --> 00:23:12.625 still respect those traditional brands and I think if you look at the 376 00:23:12.625 --> 00:23:16.470 life cycle and the maturity that people have when they're drinking, it's really 377 00:23:16.470 --> 00:23:20.070 easy to start and find your way in via you like 378 00:23:20.070 --> 00:23:23.750 really hoppy flavorful things or you want a pastry stout, whatever your 379 00:23:23.750 --> 00:23:27.450 gateway is, eventually, you'll probably wind back up drinking 380 00:23:27.670 --> 00:23:31.225 a fantastic lager, fantastic bitter, fantastic stout, the 381 00:23:31.225 --> 00:23:33.965 classics, because they've been there for 100 of years for a reason. 382 00:23:35.065 --> 00:23:38.585 It's kinda my take on it. Oh, exactly. This is 383 00:23:38.585 --> 00:23:42.345 Christian from, I guess I'll tackle the export first because we did a 384 00:23:42.345 --> 00:23:46.170 fair amount of exporting when I was at Sheldon Brothers, and I still hear 385 00:23:46.170 --> 00:23:49.470 bits and pieces from my colleagues, Andrea Fontana, about our challenges there. 386 00:23:50.090 --> 00:23:53.450 I would say there are different challenges in different places. Obviously, 387 00:23:53.450 --> 00:23:57.130 the exporting from the US to the EU is actually incredibly easy. 388 00:23:57.130 --> 00:24:00.165 There's very little that goes into it in terms of paperwork and so on and 389 00:24:00.165 --> 00:24:03.065 so forth. It's it's about as straightforward as it could get. 390 00:24:04.325 --> 00:24:08.085 Exporting to somewhere like Brazil is incredibly difficult because you need to fill 391 00:24:08.085 --> 00:24:11.605 in pages and pages of paperwork for each individual beer. You need to have 392 00:24:11.605 --> 00:24:13.535 laboratory testing that not just includes alcohol, but all sorts of other elements as to 393 00:24:13.535 --> 00:24:16.490 what goes into it. Special labels that US brewers elements as to what goes into 394 00:24:16.790 --> 00:24:20.470 it. Special labels that US brewers don't want to end up applying 395 00:24:20.470 --> 00:24:24.170 for sending 20 cases over. So you have, like, 396 00:24:25.110 --> 00:24:28.925 we'll say compliance challenges in some places, and then you have other areas. 397 00:24:28.925 --> 00:24:32.685 So Scandinavia, for example, all the Scandinavian countries 398 00:24:32.685 --> 00:24:36.385 or I should even say Nordic countries, have state run monopolies. 399 00:24:36.445 --> 00:24:40.125 I'm sure Justin has dealt with this. Yeah. Systembolaget and, Vin 400 00:24:40.125 --> 00:24:43.920 Manopolett, excuse my pronunciations. So for those, it's in a way, 401 00:24:43.920 --> 00:24:47.360 it's incredibly easy because what they're they tell you what they're looking for, they put 402 00:24:47.360 --> 00:24:51.200 out a tender, and if you tick all the boxes and they 403 00:24:51.200 --> 00:24:54.640 accept it, then they'll take a container of beer which for us is a huge 404 00:24:54.640 --> 00:24:58.345 amount of our production. So that's always nice when you land one of those, 405 00:24:58.345 --> 00:25:01.945 but it's also difficult to just be the one that does get 406 00:25:01.945 --> 00:25:05.165 selected. Even the same with, like, the SAQ in Quebec, 407 00:25:05.705 --> 00:25:08.985 they also do tenders like that. It they have a well, whatever. It's not worth 408 00:25:08.985 --> 00:25:12.720 getting into. So that's a separate set of challenges. And then 409 00:25:12.720 --> 00:25:16.560 you also have, like, I remember we were trying to take some imperial stuff from 410 00:25:16.560 --> 00:25:19.940 Russia. This is and and we don't have to get it. This is pre 411 00:25:20.400 --> 00:25:23.620 the Ukraine war. This is, like, 2016, I think. 412 00:25:25.105 --> 00:25:27.745 It was such a pain in the ass to get the beer. 1st, you have 413 00:25:27.745 --> 00:25:31.425 to send it to the EU and then from the EU to the US, but 414 00:25:31.425 --> 00:25:35.184 then the Russian Duma, like, the legislative body changed laws while we were mid 415 00:25:35.184 --> 00:25:38.950 order, and we ended up we couldn't take the beer in the 416 00:25:38.950 --> 00:25:41.770 end. So then you just have, like, total curve balls like that. 417 00:25:42.790 --> 00:25:46.630 Sorry. That was, like, a an import side question. And then, yeah, I had touched 418 00:25:46.630 --> 00:25:50.150 on this earlier just in terms of imports. Sometimes logistics just don't make sense, 419 00:25:50.150 --> 00:25:53.965 period. As much as you might want a beer, as, lovely 420 00:25:53.965 --> 00:25:56.125 as the people might be, and as high quality as the beer might be, you 421 00:25:56.125 --> 00:25:59.265 just can't make sense of bringing it over. So yeah. 422 00:25:59.885 --> 00:26:03.645 Any curve balls mid, shipment or has you as you watch 423 00:26:03.645 --> 00:26:07.140 the boat leave the port, some some local, body change their 424 00:26:07.140 --> 00:26:10.580 laws. You know, it's just amazing to me that, you know, you've got 4 major 425 00:26:10.580 --> 00:26:14.420 shipping companies and miraculously, their prices are all the same. I 426 00:26:14.420 --> 00:26:17.780 don't know how that happens. It it's a it's a it's a miracle to me 427 00:26:17.780 --> 00:26:21.585 and, you know, it's a mystery. But your question's about, you know, do you see 428 00:26:22.145 --> 00:26:25.985 is a tough exporting, is a tough purchasing? You know, first, 429 00:26:25.985 --> 00:26:29.664 you gotta get a brand that fits your portfolio, then the brewery's gotta be 430 00:26:29.664 --> 00:26:33.445 quality, then the pricing's gotta work, 431 00:26:34.130 --> 00:26:37.970 the consistency's gotta be there, and then you gotta really temper their 432 00:26:37.970 --> 00:26:41.730 expectations on how much beer they're gonna sell. And if you can get all 433 00:26:41.730 --> 00:26:45.570 that stuff, and we've introduced 2 new Trappist Monasteries, our first two 434 00:26:45.570 --> 00:26:47.750 new breweries we've had in many years, 435 00:26:49.215 --> 00:26:52.815 and it's not easy to grow a brand today. And 436 00:26:52.815 --> 00:26:56.175 we're we're talking only maybe 2, 3000 cases a 437 00:26:56.175 --> 00:26:59.935 year for these breweries these new Trappist monasteries. One from the Netherlands 438 00:26:59.935 --> 00:27:03.700 called Zunder, and another one then from England, the only Trappist monastery in 439 00:27:03.700 --> 00:27:07.060 England called Tint Meadow. Nothing is easy 440 00:27:07.060 --> 00:27:10.760 anymore. Nothing is easy. Shipping's not easy. Pricing's 441 00:27:10.820 --> 00:27:13.845 not easy. And so everything is a fist fight. 442 00:27:14.485 --> 00:27:18.005 So that's their curve balls, they're out there. You know, the 443 00:27:18.005 --> 00:27:21.765 brands that you'd wanna have, there's not as many as there used to 444 00:27:21.765 --> 00:27:24.825 be. So, yeah, it's it's a tough jam. No doubt about it. 445 00:27:25.525 --> 00:27:29.289 Ryan, any curve balls that you you knocked out of the park or 446 00:27:29.289 --> 00:27:33.049 just slipped right by you at home play? Well, fortunately for myself, I 447 00:27:33.049 --> 00:27:36.110 don't deal, as much with the multinational 448 00:27:36.570 --> 00:27:40.330 export. Probably a few rungs above my pay grade as we get into 449 00:27:40.330 --> 00:27:43.715 the brewery level, but I can speak on the the 450 00:27:43.715 --> 00:27:47.335 domestic importing, into the US. I can really only 451 00:27:47.395 --> 00:27:50.934 compare the state level distribution and the bureaucratic 452 00:27:51.395 --> 00:27:55.154 logistics that are involved with that. It's extremely complex just at the US 453 00:27:55.154 --> 00:27:58.279 state level, so expanding that to international, 454 00:27:59.220 --> 00:28:02.900 importing and distribution must be an absolute nightmare at some 455 00:28:02.900 --> 00:28:06.740 points. I give anyone who has their hand in that or 456 00:28:06.740 --> 00:28:10.425 is directly involved in that a ton of credit. The the paperwork 457 00:28:10.425 --> 00:28:14.105 involved in getting a single item or a single brewery into a 458 00:28:14.105 --> 00:28:17.785 country must be extremely complex. I I would say 459 00:28:17.785 --> 00:28:21.325 that curveballs is essentially forecasting 460 00:28:21.545 --> 00:28:25.360 what a country, or a specific territory would be looking 461 00:28:25.360 --> 00:28:28.820 for. That might be the biggest hurdle. For example, 462 00:28:28.880 --> 00:28:32.720 Duchess de Bourgogne is massive in South Korea and Russia as 463 00:28:32.720 --> 00:28:36.480 well, and and not not as big in other countries and then 464 00:28:36.480 --> 00:28:39.674 similar with Saint Bernardes, or or Val Dieu even. 465 00:28:40.215 --> 00:28:44.054 Predicting what each country's demand is going to be, what 466 00:28:44.054 --> 00:28:47.575 style or what beer is going to best fit that market is a huge 467 00:28:47.575 --> 00:28:51.115 hurdle. So, for the breweries above me that that I essentially 468 00:28:51.254 --> 00:28:53.195 import, and and work for, 469 00:28:55.260 --> 00:28:59.039 All the applause to them for for figuring that out, that 470 00:28:59.340 --> 00:29:02.860 that's a massive hurdle and and yeah. Great job 471 00:29:02.860 --> 00:29:06.700 essentially forecasting that. You know, one curve ball, I was just, you know, hit me 472 00:29:06.700 --> 00:29:09.995 when you were sitting I don't know whatever you said hit me in the head. 473 00:29:09.995 --> 00:29:13.755 Just getting empty kegs back to the breweries. You 474 00:29:13.755 --> 00:29:17.434 might as well cut your arm off. Need those kegs back, man. You so we're 475 00:29:17.434 --> 00:29:21.280 going to one way kegs from Polykeg for a lot of breweries because imagine 476 00:29:21.280 --> 00:29:24.960 trying to get beer over consistently. Yeah. You know, we can't even we've 477 00:29:24.960 --> 00:29:28.480 got warehouses full from kegspediter and you name it 478 00:29:28.480 --> 00:29:31.540 company who you know, getting kegs back to the breweries. 479 00:29:32.720 --> 00:29:36.515 It's not worth it, You know? So we're changing to a lot of one way 480 00:29:36.515 --> 00:29:40.195 kegs now. Yeah. It's gonna be better for the environment because they're recyclable, and 481 00:29:40.195 --> 00:29:43.795 you're not using caustic to clean them. So there are some pluses. But that's 482 00:29:43.795 --> 00:29:47.475 something, you know, literally, when I got in this business 30 some years 483 00:29:47.475 --> 00:29:51.020 ago, didn't exist. And now I'm the biggest 484 00:29:51.020 --> 00:29:54.320 proponent for them. So, yeah, there are curve balls out there. No doubt about it. 485 00:29:54.700 --> 00:29:57.580 Yeah. To that point, I would say I I remember at a certain point at 486 00:29:57.580 --> 00:30:01.420 Shelton Brothers, we had something like €50,000 worth of kegs from 487 00:30:01.420 --> 00:30:05.095 Kulmbacher Brewery in stock, empties. So they're just 488 00:30:05.095 --> 00:30:08.695 tying up cash. Exactly. You're a small company and all your cash tied up in 489 00:30:08.695 --> 00:30:12.055 empty kegs in there. Yeah. And the Germans are angry because you've got all their 490 00:30:12.055 --> 00:30:15.889 kegs and they want them back. So it's like yeah. I I am so as 491 00:30:15.889 --> 00:30:19.250 as resistant as I was to poly kegs or key kegs in the first place, 492 00:30:19.250 --> 00:30:23.090 and they had their hiccups, they are sort of a game changer for those of 493 00:30:23.090 --> 00:30:26.769 us in the importing side. So Mein Gott, ze kegs in 494 00:30:26.769 --> 00:30:30.554 Kulmbach. Alright. With that absolutely 495 00:30:30.615 --> 00:30:34.375 corny note, I'm gonna take us out. I just wanna say thank you, Ryan. Thank 496 00:30:34.375 --> 00:30:38.155 you, John. Thank you, Christian. Thank you, Justin. Stick around. 497 00:30:38.215 --> 00:30:41.490 Brandy Holder, our co owner of DC beer, is up next 498 00:30:41.809 --> 00:30:45.650 with Vibes. It's an incredible panel. You don't wanna miss it. Thanks, 499 00:30:45.650 --> 00:30:49.090 DC Beer listeners. You could have been anywhere in the world. You chose to rock 500 00:30:49.090 --> 00:30:51.110 here with us, and for that, we are grateful.