I'm Travis Bader and this is The
Silvercore Podcast.
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outdoor adventures.
Today I'm talking wild goats with Jeff
Agostinho from the Rocky Mountain Goat Alliance.
This group is a grassroots organization
dedicated to enhancing and conserving North
America's rocky mountain goats.
Jeff, welcome to The Silvercore Podcast.
Thanks for having me on Travis.
Absolutely.
So Rocky Mountain Goat Alliance, can you tell
me a little bit about what this organization
does and how you became involved with them?
So, Rocky Mountain Goat Alliance started out
in the states in 2013.
It was grassroots organization focused on
Rocky Mountain Goats, uh, mainly in Montana
where it had originated.
And then from there they've grown
over the years.
Uh, the main mission of Rocky Mountain Goat
Alliance is to work on habitat, mountain goats
and everything to do with mountain goats.
Right.
So I've never actually hunted mountain goats.
I'm trying to think if I've ever seen a mountain
goat in the wild.
I know I've seen them in the zoos.
I spend a fair bit of time out in the
mountains, but just not in areas where there
are mountain goats.
Um, BC houses, what, the largest amount of
mountain goats are in North America, like.
Yes. 50% or more.
Yep.
We have about 50% of the total mountain
goat population in North America.
So there's a very big amount of mountain goats
here and we're kind of, uh, yeah, we, we have 50%
of the population and the most of anywhere kind of
else in North America.
So what got you involved with this.
So I've just been . Passionate about
conservation over the last three to four years.
Uh, I've hunted mountain goats, I'vespent a lot
of time in mountain goat country, and I really
wanted to bring the Rocky Mountain Goat Alliance up
into Canada because there hadn't been a lot of work
previously done here.
So, uh, last year, the Rocky Mountain
Goat Alliance launched their regional
representative program, which I immediately
signed up for.
And then moving into 2021, we started
working on a project to do with mountain
goats right up here in the Chilliwack area.
And Rocky Mountain Goat Alliance jumped
on board with that.
And it's the partnership has kind of grown from
there and I will be the first or am the first
regional representative on for the Rocky
Mountain Goat Alliance.
Very nice.
So, so what, what's this, what's going
on in Chilliwack?
So to June 25th and 26th, we did the first Canadian
mountain goat survey.
We had about 46 individuals out to do a
survey of the Chilliwack River Valley, and then
coming in from the south side of the Skagit
to count the mountain goats within that area.
Uh, working hand in hand with the regional
biologist, just to achieve a ground
survey count of what we could see in a
matter of two days.
Gotcha.
So you, you've got a background in
hunting from what I understand, you've been
hunting from a pretty early age and family
background of hunting.
Have you been hunting in the mountains
very long or?
I did my first mountain hunt when I was 20.
So what, six years ago I did a fly in my first
mountain goat or sorry, first mountain hunting
experience was a fly in trip in Northern
British Columbia.
Um, and then from there it just kind of evolved
and I've gotten more and more into the mountain
hunting aspect and being in these places
in more remote areas of British Columbia chasing
certain types of items.
So that first fly in hunt was that a, uh, that was
a caribou hunt, right?
Yeah.
That was a caribou hunt in, uh,
yeah, Northwestern British Columbia.
And we were successful on day six I believe,
on a caribou, hunting partners took a caribou
and that was just a big wake up call for me.
I remember getting back after seven days to the
lake we'd been dropped off on no skin left on
my heels, not having the proper gear, just body
completely destroyed.
And, uh, but I knew I wanted to get right
back out there as soon as possible.
You wanted more.
Yeah.
So I haven't done any mountain hunting.
Not yet.
No.
But, in another month or so I'll be flying in
and doing my first, uh, fly in caribou hunt.
Oh that's going to be awesome.
In a remote northern area, probably not too
far from where you were.
And I'll be bringing my 12 year old son with me.
So that might be a little bit of a, a, that's
going to be an adventure.
Yeah.
What's is he done quite a bit of hunting yet
with you or spent time with you in the field or?
Uh, in the field?
Yes.
Hunting.
He's been, uh, hunting for, you got his license
when he was 10 years old.
He harvested his first, uh, animals last year.
And, uh, at this one it's going to be a, it's
going to be a mountain experience and if he's
able to be successful out there, great.
But otherwise he'll be, he'll be helping
with other things on the, on the group.
That'll be awesome.
I'm sure he'll enjoy it.
And you'll have them hooked from an early age.
Oh.
You know, I think he was already hooked,
but in all of this, I, um, I, you don't know
what you don't know.
Right.
And so being the first mountain and you know,
looking at different gear, different tents
than I'd use when I'm mountaineering.
Uh larger tents for, um, all the kit and
what we're looking to do, uh, looking at,
uh, uh, of course your bino's, spotting scopes
are very important.
Uh, I should imagine when you're, uh, you're
talking about the, the mountain goats, having a
very good spotting scope would be just a crucial
piece of equipment.
Absolutely.
Yeah.
I think anytime you're hunting, especially
mountain goats, or any mountain species,
mountain goats in particular, just because
of the identification factor, having that
spotting scope is vital to being successful in
taking the right animal.
So I watched a really good video that you guys
put out and it had Steve Rinella narrating it.
Yeah. That was pretty cool.
Yeah.
How, how old is that video?
That video I believe is six years old.
Okay.
Off the top of my head.
And it was talking about identifying the gender
or sexing mountain goats and how they tell
the difference, the difference between a
billy and a nanny and cause they, they're both
going to have horns.
And it also talked about the impact of making
an improper harvest, which I thought was
pretty interesting.
It says, if I remember correctly,
it was, it spanned a five-year period.
And it says, if you, uh, if you take a billy, uh,
in five years, here's what the population
is going to look like.
If you take a nanny and these, these mountain
goat populations, they're not huge.
Nope.
You take a nanny at essentially.
Will cut that population by about 50%.
Yeah.
That's, the way that the video shows it.
Yeah.
Okay.
Yeah, just down the line and over that,
those amount of years, um, by taking that
nanny, the amount of kids that you're
reducing over however many years does have a
big effect on a herd.
So if you started caribou hunting and then he
said, Hey, I want it was the next one, another
caribou, or were you into sheep or goats?
Well, how did the progression work?
It went caribou, caribou, and then actually, no,
I did do a goat hunt.
After that caribou hunt, I did a Southeastern
BC mountain goat hunt.
Um, in an area we had never been into.
A couple of friends, drew a tag, and we had
never, one of my friends had taken a goat, but
two of us had never, never even hunted goats.
Just wanted to go and experience this.
So we made a run at it.
And we spent four days just trying to
break through treeline in different areas.
And it was a nightmare, but, um,
yeah, it was awesome.
We saw a couple of goats, nothing we wanted
to take or nothing we could even really get
close enough to take.
Right.
Uh, but a big learning curve just on the country
that those mountain goats live in and the
kind of areas that they tend to frequent
and how hard it is sometimes to access them.
No kidding.
So for me, if you're to say Trav, look it,
I know you've never hunted goats before.
Here's the 1 0 1.
What would you say is most important?
What would you, what would you pack and
what would you prepare with like, uh, any
research that you do ahead of time?
So, I mean, I think the most important thing,
just going back to what we were just talking
about when you're planning a mountain goat
hunt, the first thing you need to do is watch that
Rocky Mount Goat Alliance video on identifying
and sexing goats.
Right.
You need to become comfortable.
You need to go on whatever it's Instagram,
the internet, or whatever it may be,
and get comfortable with identifying a
billy versus a nanny.
I think that's the most important thing that you
need to do when preparing for a mountain goat hunt.
Above area, above gear above anything else.
It's the identification factor.
Well said.
Yeah, that's going to be the first.
From there, getting your gear in line.
And we're pretty fortunate here in
British Columbia.
We can hunt goats from August 1st in
some areas right out to February 28th.
Right.
So it's kind of going to depend on
what you want to do.
I'm not going to recommend anyone.
Who's never hunted goats before to go out
and try and attempt a late February
mountain goat hunt.
I've been there.
It's not somewhere you want to start.
Um, but generally it's going to be that
mid September, early September hunts that
guys are preparing for.
And it's generally pretty similar to most
mountain hunts that you're going to want to
do, or that most guys are doing in terms of gear.
Uh, the one thing to keep in mind is that mountain
goats do live in very, very steep terrain.
So it's a matter of getting comfortable with
being in that kind of country at times as well.
And one of the other factors that a lot of
people don't consider when they are hunting
mountain goats or planning to hunt mountain
goats is whether or not you're going to
be able to, if you do take an animal,
retrieve that animal, it's a lot to think
about at the same time.
Totally.
Yeah.
So one of the biggest things in the field
is when you're looking at these goats you've
identified a Billy and you want to take it
is can I get to him.
Mhmm.
And I've been in situations where we
definitely just could not get to that goat.
Like there was no way we could safely retrieve
that goat without maybe having a helicopter, or
full out climbing gear.
Right.
It just wasn't going to happen.
So, um, that's another big factor when
you're hunting these hunting mountain.
So we're talking about identification, not
everybody who's listening to this is going to go
online and look at the video and go through it.
Anybody who is going to be hunting mountain
goats absolutely should be looking at that
and doing their own research on identifying
the sex of them.
What tips would you give to somebody listening
to this on how to properly identify and
sex these mountain goats?
So the there's two very, in my opinion,
big giveaways, the first being the horns.
Generally believes are going to be a lot
thicker at the bases that are going to carry
that weight throughout.
And then there's the curvature.
The billy's tend to have a lot more of
a gradual curve to their horns where
nannies tend to have the curve at the top.
And it almost creates a little bit of a kink,
like look at the top of a nanny's horns.
Right.
That isn't ,so it isn't so gradual.
The other big thing that most guys should
know or wait for, if you can't identify them by
the horns, is this how they go pee pretty much.
Right, okay.
Yeah.
So a nanny will squat and a billy will stretch.
That's a dead giveaway right there, is which
way, how they go when they go to the bathroom.
That's a good one.
Yeah.
So if you can't get it to sit there
and wait and wait.
Exactly.
Well, hope they're well-hydrated.
Yeah exactly.
And I think with most mountain species,
generally three to four hours, you're seeing
them get up at least once to stretch or
go to the washroom or do whatever they got
to do their business.
So if you don't know, just wait, be patient.
So what, what does the, the goat population
look like here in British Columbia?
Is it pretty healthy?
W, our populations currently very healthy
for mountain goats.
Like I said, we've got 50% of the mountain goats
and they're spread out throughout pretty much
our entire province.
We've got goats, like I said, right here in
Chilliwack, uh, up in, through Harrison, in
Squamish and all the way outside of that,
right through region 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, and eight,
all old mountain goats.
We've got them on the coastal inlets on
the west end there.
Right.
The only place that we don't have
mountain goats is on Vancouver island so.
Right.
Yeah.
So what are some of the biggest threats to
the goat populations?
So we've, it's, it's an interesting question
because we've been trying to identify a
little bit of it just with Chilliwack and
a couple of areas.
I think personally, one of the biggest
threats that we're seeing to mountain
goats today in a lot of areas is recreational
and non-consumptive recreation in terms
of hikers, mountain biking, ATV, and all
that type of stuff.
Um, there's, there's a few others.
Predation is a bit of a factor.
Uh, one of the things you can go on YouTube
and see is, uh, eagles trying to knock off
kids off cliffs.
I've seen that.
Yeah.
So a lot of people don't believe that until they
go and search the video, but it's a real thing.
And it's a real threat to, you know, kids
or goats on some of those steep spots.
Um, but I think recreation in certain
areas is a big threat and potentially disease.
I know that there has been a little bit of
disease identified outside of BC I believe
it was, a few years back, in mountain goats.
Um, it hasn't come up big yet as a threat, but
it could down the road become something that we
definitely need to start paying attention to.
So non-consumptive users, that's looking
like one of the, the larger threats to the,
the mountain goats.
Yes, exactly.
It's not something most people would
think about, but.
No.
Um, how many people are hiking into the Alpine
all the time or doing that kind of stuff, or,
I mean, there's a lot of areas where you can
snowmobile or you can take an ATV or you can
drive a vehicle right up into the Alpine.
We've got lots areas here in British
Columbia where you can take a 4x4 vehicle.
And there's certain groups that go up into
these Alpine areas that do have mountain
goats and having these roads and everything
in them definitely doesn't have any sort of
positive effect on them.
Right.
So it's just stressing them out or?
Exactly.
Pushing them further?
Pushing them further or pushing them
into certain areas.
I don't know if it causes any, w we don't know
yet if it causes any sort of, um, issue with
breeding and, uh, that aspect of it, it may or
may not, that pressure.
Um, but yeah, it's caused them to go into
certain areas that they're not normally in.
And we saw that in the Chilliwack area, when
people are hiking the top peaks and people
are snowmobiling in the Alpine and their
winter range and all that as well.
Do you ever find there's much uh, mountain
goat, human conflict.
So there's there definitely,
really can be.
I mean, we've seen, I believe it was in, uh,
down in Washington, there was a situation where
a person was actually gored by a mountain goat.
Wow.
Yeah.
So I mean, that's, that's a pretty extreme example.
Um, but it, it did happen.
And in BC right now, they're doing some work.
Uh, Laura Balex I don't know if you've
heard of her before.
She's doing some work in cathedral, um, down
in region eight there where they're kind of
looking into that in terms of the human goat
conflict and what that, uh, what that does to
the mountain goats, because there definitely
is a big factor of that.
I know, I heard a mention of, um, the goats were
attracted to, like they were using human
urine to attract goats.
They were coming right into it for I
guess I would assume it was for the salt.
I've heard that.
Yeah.
So when you think about that, that's
pretty crazy.
There's provincial parks in there, there's rec
sites and mountain goats are coming in there.
It's, it's definitely an cause some pressure,
puts some pressure on them with that and
that's direct human goat conflict right there.
Interesting.
I do think people tend to want to dry and get
too close and maybe try and take pictures with
their phones, which puts a bit of pressure on the
mountain goats and tends to push them into areas
maybe they're not so comfortable in being in.
Especially when you're talking, a lot of people
are doing hikes at this time of year when
kids are pretty fresh, they're just getting
their legs under them.
Right.
So if you put pressure on or herd of goats
that contains 2, 3, 4 kids, and all of a
sudden they're moving off into a steeper
area or a cliff band or something like that,
those kids might not have all their footing
and feet under them.
There's a chance that one of them could
take a fall and they won't survive that.
Yeah.
You know, when I, when I take a look at, uh,
Alberta, there's no goat hunting this year.
Yeah.
So that's been an interesting one
that we've kind of been discussing
over the last month.
And Darren Epp has been big on that and
he's trying to get some answers on what it is.
And we've got a few, we've got some
communication with the local biologist, um,
on what's causing it.
And generally, uh, for a populate for
us, sustainable harvest, you need 50
goats within an area.
That's generally the average.
And that's the, what the biologist is kind
of stated to Darren and those numbers have
been on the decline.
And one of the big things, again, going back
to identifying the right goat to take, uh, was an
over harvest of nannies a little while back before
Alberta brought in the mandatory course before
you do your goat hunt.
Right.
So, BC doesn't have that currently where
you have to take some sort of mandatory course
or education program.
I should think it should be coming.
Yeah. Hopefully.
Yes.
But Alberta has now brought that in, but
prior to that, there was high levels of nannie
harvest in Alberta, which obviously has
caused that effect on the herds, um, down through
there as well as the recreational pressure.
And they're investigating as to what else could
be causing the numbers to be on the decline.
So when you say 50 goats in an area,
how big of an area are we talking about?
From what Iunderstand every area's
totally different.
It depends on the range, depends on multiple
different factors.
What the carrying capacity could be
within a specific range.
So it's, it's hard to say, you know, it's
20 kilometers, square kilometers with 30
square kilometers.
Every area is totally different.
Right makes sense.
Yeah.
So it's hard to identify an exact size.
When you go out on your hunts, how much time are
you typically dedicating.
Every hunt's a little bit different.
I did a mountain goat hunt in 2019
where we dedicated four days and we got
it done on day one.
But we were going into an area where I had a decent
amount of information and I was able to go
online and kind of pick out the spots I figured
goats would be living in.
And the day before season, we found two
billys and we took the billy on opening day.
So, but generally it's going to depend on how
far I'm going at, where I'm going, but I'd like
to say seven to 10 days is the ideal amount of
time when we've done our winter hunts, we
planned for eight to nine, just because of
travel and getting into these valleys can also
be pretty difficult.
So that got account a day on either end
of that, at least.
So if we're doing nine days, it gets a
seven days to hunt.
Once we're actually into the valley or
wherever we're going.
But generally that seven to 10 day period is
what we like to be in.
Yeah, it makes sense.
Yeah.
So we kind of glossed over one of the pieces
of information that I think a lot of people
listening to this would really want to know,
and that would be kit.
What kind of kit would you recommend that
somebody start looking at if they wanted to get
into mountain hunting?
Yeah, that's, that's definitely something
that, uh, a lot of people ask and they're always
kind of wondering is what kind of gear to do
and, you know, it can, it can be very overwhelming
once you start looking at the market, the hunting
market and looking into the industry and what to
kind of start with right.
Um, the first thing that anybody, I always talk
to people about, and the first question that I
like to answer is boots.
I think your boot selection is huge.
A lot of guys tend to want to just kind of
walk to the Cabela's or to the Bass Pro where
they're carrying kind of their regular boots
and think that that's going to be good enough.
If you're getting into mountain hunting,
especially with goat hunting, you're going to
want, I know personally, I like having a stiff
mountaineering boot cause you're in some of those
conditions, but having a good boot and uh, you
know, it, it depends on your budget, but uh,
like I like Scarpa's personally I wear.
They're nice yes.
Yeah, exactly.
Super stiff, a lot of support.
Uh, and synthetic, I like having a synthetic
boot personally.
Um, there's some good leather boots too,
depending on kind of personal preference, but
picking a good boot that fits you well, you've
spent some time in and it's going to be capable
in those situations.
The, the general boot that you would buy at
Cabela's or whatever, like that is probably
not going to cut it.
And those kinds of mountain hunting
conditions, uh, based on my personal experience,.
My first ever mountain hunting trip, I wore a
pair of Irish setter elk trackers that were not
cut for carrying a pack.
Yeah.
Like they, you know, great boots for when
I'm hanging out with my duck blind or something.
I want to stay warm.
Right.
But on a mountain hunt when you've got 75,
80, 90 pounds in your pack, they just do
not cut it and they destroyed my feet.
Maybe they work for some guys, but not for me.
So when I talk to guys, definitely going
to be wanting to look at a lot of those
Italian made boots, I recommend, uh, let's see.
Sportiva.
La Sportiva, Scarpa's.
Meindl.
Meindl's, I've had a pair of Meindl's personally.
A lot of guys are really liking the Crispi's.
Okay.
A lot of guys swear by them, Hanwag's, those
kinds of boots are the ones you're going to
want to be looking at and trying them on.
And one of the things that I've always said to
people was try on as many different as you can.
Um, look for somewhere where you can, if you're
ordering online or you're in an area where you
don't have that ton of selection, you can't
go to the store and pick up these boots.
You don't have a MEC or an Atmosphere or
something like that.
Find an online site where you can return
and order multiple different pairs of boots.
Try them all on, and then returns the ones
that don't work, like.
What's your thought on boot break in?
I think it's pretty boot dependent.
So my Meindl's for example, I spent a
lot of time trying to break those boots
in, a lot of time.
My Scarpa's, I stepped into them and they work.
Right.
I think it's very dependent on your
foot and it's very dependent on the boot.
Uh, the Crispi's have this guarantee I
believe, that there's no break in period.
And everyone I've talked to has, uh, never had to
have a break and paired with their Crispi's.
They've stepped into them and they were
hiking and they've never had an issue.
So, you know, maybe there's something there,
but for me, Scarpa's, I'd never had a break
in period with mine.
They've been great and I've been using them for
almost three years now.
You know, talking to other people.
And there's the growing consensus of,
if you have to break your boots in, get
another pair of boots.
Yeah.
Either fit the insoul fit, fit it so that
you, your heel is in the middle cup, in
the pocket of the back properly, and things
are laced up properly.
And if you can't, through all of that, finding
another pair of boots.
Yeah.
That's interesting.
I've never heard that, but.
Yeah.
Good point.
You know, and it's, I started adopting that
school of thought in my boot selection.
And like you, I had a pair of Meindl's and
there was a long break in period to get those
things where I wanted.
And they were heavy.
I don't know if it was just the ones that
I had, but they were Alpine boot, rather
heavy compared to some of the synthetics.
And, uh, but you know, I guess what, and one thing
I find with the boots, some people say, oh, you
got to get Meindl, or you got to get Scarpa.
Yeah, maybe for you, maybe it works great
with your feet, but.
Super personal.
Totally.
Yeah.
Super personal.
Um, and then even with boots is, know
your application.
I think for me with like the winter
goat hunts, like we talked about, that is
something that I have to take into account.
So I wanted something that was going to
be fully compatible for a crampon.
Right.
So know your application, know where you're
going to be using them.
And if you need those types of things, making
sure you're looking for the right pair
of boots for that.
I was with a friend this past weekend, who's
doing his first ever winter goat hunt ordered
a new pair of boots.
And I went and looked at them and you can
make crampons work for them, but they're not
the most ideal, like a full step in boot
for crampons is what you're going to want.
Like, so just know your application and where
are you going to be using them and kind of
go from there and select from there, that's going
to narrow you down.
Moving forward from that is going to be,
we'll go into packs.
Packs again, I find are super personal.
I've ran a few different packs.
Um, and again, try them all on, try on
as many different packs as you can.
The market, you know, there's Kuiu, Kifaru,
Mystery Ranch, uh, Stone Glacier, um,
Eberlestock, uh, I mean, how many different
pack brands on there?
There's tons, try on as many different packs
as you possibly can because it's going to
be as personal as boots.
Make sure you get fitted for them right.
Either, whether you're searching the online
YouTube videos, because every brand has a fitting
video that you can watch, or you are with someone
who's fitting it for you.
Just make sure you're putting that on right,
before you're 50 pounds on it, and see
how it fits your back because not every pack
is going to work for every single person.
And if anyone ever tells you that, they're
probably lying to you because everyone's back
is totally different.
Everyone's ability to carry weight a certain
way is totally different.
I've I've seen, I've found, make sure
you find the one that's right for you.
Um.
What are you running right now for a pack?
Right now I'm running, I just stopped, I was
running a Kuiu before, um, and I wanted to
try something new.
So I'm currently running a Kifaru.
Okay.
So I just made that switch.
Um, the, both are good packs.
Kuiu's a lighter pack.
Kifaru's a bit of a heavier pack.
Built a little bit, it's a little bit of
a, it's built a little bit to be a tougher
pack, a bit heavier.
Um, but putting weight in it's been great.
Um, I personally like to run a bigger pack.
So guys are like, oh, do you run two packs?
Cause you have a day pack and you're like
expedition pack.
And I'm like, nope, I've always chosen packs that
I'm able to cinch down pretty tight so that
if I want to use them for a day trip, I can.
And then if I want to blow them up and use them
for a full 10 day trip, I can do that as well.
So I'm not limited in that sense uh.
So what size are you running right now?
So the Kifaru right now, I have it set up to run
up to 9,000 cubic inches.
That's a good size pack.
Yeah.
So the one thing to remember with your pack
is just because you have that space, don't
always try and fill it.
Right.
Yeah.
So personally I have enough experience and
I've done enough that I know what I need and what
I don't need, so I can cut out certain things.
And I feel comfortable with having that extra
space where I've talked to a lot of guys that
build a pack like that that's that big, or
even a 7,500 or an 8,000 cubic inch pack.
And they're trying to do what they can to fill it.
And I'm like, okay, now put it on your back
and see how that feels.
Right. Right.
Don't forget, you're going to be packing
some meat out, hopefully at some point too.
Exactly.
When you get up to 120, 130 pound pack, I've
done it a few times now.
It's like, it doesn't matter what kind of pack.
It's going to suck.
It's just going to suck.
So, you know, don't add extra stuff you don't
need just because you have that extra space.
It's, in the long run, it's not
going to help you.
So that's packs, again, super personal.
Um, moving into clothing again, there's a lot
of different options, whether you want to
stay in gear from in the hunting space or there's
lots of brands outside of the hunting space that
are going to cut it too.
It's going to depend on budget.
The one thing that I recommend everybody
has is your rain gear.
If you're hunting in British Columbia,
whatever type of mountain hunt you do have rain
gear in your back pack.
Like I don't care if it's August 1st, I don't care
if it's September 1st, I just, you need to have
rain gear in my opinion.
Um, because that can end a trip pretty quick when
you get a freak storm.
Are you going to waterproof, breathable
or full, full waterproof?
Even Gore-Tex or?
Yeah, so I, I personally run Kuiu, that there,
they work with a little bit different, um,
materials, but it's a level of breathability.
But I think one thing with rain gear that
you need to remember is if rain gear is
breathable, there's an element of water that
can also get in, has always been my opinion.
Um, and I could, I'm not a super material or gear
freak, but, um, yeah, I mean the best rain gear
is stuff that generally isn't that breathable.
You start talking about Helly Hansen rubber
stuff, it's the best rain gear and it's
not breathable at all.
So you want that kind of in-between generally when
it starts raining as a hunter, you're trying to
get out of it anyways.
It's not like you're thriving in it,
some guys do, and to each their own.
Um, but I think it's a matter of finding
something that is a bit breathable is
relatively lightweight.
Cause you're going to be backpacking.
Uh, and you know, you stay dry in
for the most part.
Um, I think if you're, you know, I've got
friends that are horseback guides and
all that type of stuff, when you're beaten your
rain gear every single day, riding horses,
breaking through bush, eventually certain things
are gonna soak through.
Um, but it's finding stuff that's going to
hold up the longest.
I think so, um, yeah with that being said, I've
had, like I said, I run the Kuiu gear and I've
had no problem with it.
Moving in from that, uh, is your insulation.
I am a big fan of down insulation.
Uh, one of my friends said it to me last year
and it was really good way to think about it
when it came to rain gear and you're in
your down gear is in an emergency situation,
it's your sleeping bag and your tent.
You know, you get caught up on the side
of the mountain and you have your down puffy,
your down pants, your rain pants and your
rain jacket, you know, it's not going to be
comfortable, but you're going to survive because
you have that all on you.
If you can't get to your tent at night.
So it's definitely something to think about
and something that I'd tell everybody have some
down in your pack when you're doing any of these
backpack hunts, because storms coming quick,
or even just sitting down and glassing.
Like a lot of guys don't sit down in glass
because they don't have the ability to get
comfortable and do it, whether it's, you know,
putting on their down to stay out of a wind
or to block that from the wind or just to stay
warm, they just, they don't think about that.
And then all of a sudden they're trying to cover
ground and they're trying to warm themselves
up by hiking more.
And we're walking right past country that there's
animals in because they didn't have the proper
gear to allow them to do what they needed to do.
Good point.
Yeah.
So down rain gear and then your base layers,
and everyone's going to be totally different.
For me, um, I'm all merino.
If I'm doing any sort of extended trip, we're
in the mountains, we all smell like, there's just.
Sure.
There's no way around it right?
So like all my base is socks, always merino.
That's my go-to some guys like synthetics
and to each their own, but that's just how
I've always been, uh, is going full merino.
You've a favourite brand for socks?
Uh Smartwool.
You like Smartwool eh?
Yeah.
Yeah, I run Smartwool uh, depending on the time of
year I'll run Smartwool, like they have the heavy
over the calf ones.
Those are my go-to for like late
season winter stuff.
I've always got those on.
I might have to check them out.
I've always been Darn Tough and I
just love Darn Tough.
Yeah.
I've, I've heard a lot of good things.
I've just, I've never had an issue with
my Smartwool socks.
So why change?
Why change.
Yeah. Yeah.
That's just my, my opinion.
I have a Smartwool 200 Merino top that I wear,
like when I'm exercising here or going for runs
in the winter, I just, I love that thing.
It's super comfortable, super warm.
It's uh, it's been, yeah.
Uh, moving on from that, like, that's going to be
your clothing part um.
How many, how many pairs of socks would
you be taken for, let's say a seven day hunt?
Two.
Two?
Yeah, that's it.
Okay.
Yeah, that's all I take and I I'll take two, and
I mean, like I said, one of the things that you
need to be comfortable with is the fact that
you're going to smell.
Like to a degree, your stuff is going
to get sweated up.
Don't add a bunch of extra weight.
Don't take seven pairs of socks for seven days.
Cause it's, you're just adding
unnecessary weight.
Take those merino, wash them out in a creek, do
what you can to keep them as clean as possible.
Um, this past year on my goat hunt, I took
two pairs of socks for nine days and
they were constantly like, just cause
everything was so wet.
And even like, you take your boots off at night
and just condensation, everything's building
up in your boots.
So you put your socks on and it gets, or your,
you put your boots and your socks get wet.
So what I was doing is I would, um, I
take my socks, I'd switch them every day.
I had Platypus soft bottles that I would
boil water and I put the portable soft bottles
inside my socks, which then I'd put inside.
I always, for the winter hunts take a pair of
synthetic booties, like just to have
all my feet at night.
Yep.
I'd put the socks in the boiled
water inside those.
And then I'd put those at the bottom of my
synthetic sleeping bag and it would
dry everything right out, because the
part of my sleeping bag was always wet.
So that heat from inside mixed with the
synthetic properties would consistently
dry out my socks.
So I'd always have a pair of dry socks, first
thing in the morning.
Cause I mean, that's just a mental thing right.
Having wet socks is always tough.
Totally.
Yeah.
So just making sure that, but yeah, two socks is
always my go-to and like I said, wash them out in
a creek or do something like that if you need to,
just to keep them clean.
One set of rain gear, pants, one pair?
Yeah.
Always one pair of pants, soft shell pant.
Um, just whatever I like having something
that's a four way stretch and has hip vents.
Those are two of the key features for me.
Uh, and then a gaiter too.
Make sure you, I think taken a gaiter is
super, super underrated, but I think everyone
who's mountain hunting should have a gaiter.
Totally. With them.
Uh, my first hunt, I didn't take one and I
regret it a big time or take a pair and
regretted it big time.
Um, but yeah, over the calf gaiter synthetic, or
sorry, pair of soft shell pants with a hip vent,
uh, and four-way stretch.
That's pretty key to me.
And then um, if you want, everyone's totally
different in terms of how your body runs.
I, my legs tend to run pretty warm, so I don't
always take a pair of long Johns, but if you
are looking for something that has a side zip,
that you can just unzip it on the side and pop
it right off that way, you don't need to take
your boots off to get your, uh, long johns off.
Right. Which is kinda nice.
Um, moving on.
So we hit that base layers yeah,
merino socks, merino we got that.
One shirt, base layer of merino wool?
Always, yeah.
Just one shirt.
Yep. Yeah.
I've, there's been times where I've smelt myself
and thought maybe I should bring a different
shirt, but I just, I'm usually with the guys
and we all smell so, it is what it is right.
Um, if you're a good enough hunter, you
know how to play your wind and how to do
that all for the most part too so, um, yeah.
Controlling your odour's important, but you're
never going to get away from it when you're doing
these long backpacking trips in my opinion.
Um, your sleep system is pretty important.
Uh, making sure you have a good pad.
Like, whether, there's a lot of different
options these days, something I like to
use the Therm-A-Rest I used a NeoAir this
year and that was, uh, that was really nice.
Um, but there's tons of different options
out there having a good pad know when,
where you're going and making sure that it
has the right Insulet installation value for
that country, whether it's you don't need
anything or, you know, I think some of them
are right up to around seven now at our scale.
So making sure you go there.
And then sleeping bag, there's a lot of debate
on sleeping bags.
I personally am a synthetic fan just
because it has the ability to dry
me out at night.
It does weigh a little bit more.
It doesn't cost me a thousand dollars
for a sleeping bag.
Yeah.
Um, and then down is like, if it gets
wet or anything like that, I know there's
the new treat a down that's supposed
to be pretty good.
I just, personally, I don't take the risk.
I like having a synthetic bag.
What do you mean dry you out at night?
So when you use a synthetic, it has.
So synthetic materials have the ability to,
um, use like the heat from your body and
pull that moisture out.
Like, so out of your gear, um, there's a
lot of good videos if you search on YouTube,
that kind of show it and how it works.
Um, but something like a merino doesn't have
that ability to, uh, push that moisture off
and to dry out as well as synthetic does.
So when you're using that synthetic sleeping bag,
the properties within the material, um, pull
that moisture from you and then kind of push
them out from there.
If that kinda makes sense.
I get what you're saying.
What, uh, what make are you, you
running right now?
For a sleeping bag?
Yeah.
I run a Marmot Elite Trestles.
Okay.
I've had, I think I got three of them right now,
different, uh, different temperature ratings.
Uh, and I've been running them for three
years and I love them.
They're like a $200, $250 bag and I just
beat them, abuse them.
And then if I got to replace them, it's not
like it's a thousand dollars like a down.
You're not crying.
Yeah so.
It's a little heavier, it takes up a bit more room.
It takes up a little bit more room for sure.
But that's part of having a little
bit of that bigger pack too, and being
comfortable with that little bit of whether
it's a pound extra or half a pound extra.
Right.
Just having that little bit of extra weight,
I'm comfortable with it, I'm okay with it.
I know what I'm getting myself into.
Um, so I'm good with that.
Um, then your tent, your tent is a big
one, making sure that, uh, you're picking the
right tent for the trip.
Um, a lot of guys tend to buy tents that
are cheaper and maybe don't cut it when these
wind storms hit or anything, or if they
get some snow or it's just not built for it.
So making sure to pick your tent right.
If you're doing some of the late season stuff
and you're going in the winter, you're definitely
to want to have some sort of four season tent.
A lot of guys are switching over to running
teepees now, which if those work then great.
I haven't personally used them, but, uh, making
sure you're picking the right tent for the trip.
I think there's a lot of different brands, even
within the hunting space.
Hilleberg, Kuiu makes a tent.
A lot of guys tend to run like the MSRs too.
They all make pretty good products and it's
not a place that I'd want to skimp on price
just because, um, yeah, you're, you're
living in that thing for seven to 10 days or
whatever it is right.
Right.
And so, and a good tent is going to last you a
long time, as long as you take care of it.
So, uh, that's the sleep system and, and then
moving on from there, electronics is something
I always have on my list.
You know, your Garmin, portable battery
pack, some charging cords, your headlamp.
Some guys like to run two headlamps, uh, to
each their own, making sure that personally,
one thing I've found, and I learned this
from someone who had a lot more experience.
Was I always take a small flashlight and
the headlamp hat run on the same batteries
so that they're super interchangeable and
they're both also can be recharged.
So you have the option of those extra batteries
or to recharge them.
So that you're always covered.
The last thing you want to be is on the side of
a mountain and all of a sudden your headlamp runs
out of battery and you can't just switch another
battery into it cause it's only rechargeable
and you're charging packs back down at the tent.
Right.
So making sure you have that option.
Uh, you're kill kit.
Having the right game bags, everyone likes to
run different game bags.
There's a lot on the market.
I personally like to go with synthetic
game bags now.
Uh, I clean them out after every time I
use them and they're fully reasonable.
You spend a hundred bucks to get them at first,
but it's better than guys who want to pack
cheesecloth or something.
Cause I've seen all sorts of different things.
Just my personal opinion.
Synthetic game bags are the way to go and
there's lots of them on the market now and
they're all great.
They all do the trick and they're going to
keep bugs off of it.
And they're going to keep the meat clean and you
hang them up right and they're going to help
dry out that meat too.
Um, then I mean a good knife.
A couple of knives, I like to run a
couple knives.
I like to have a fixed blade, a light fixed
blade and then I think everyone has a Havalon
for the most part.
Right.
That's I think a Havalon is it should be an every
mountain hunters pack personally, um, super
light interchangeable blades and they
can do a whole lot.
So that's super nice.
Uh, your cooking gear.
Uh, so your fuel cans, you gonna want those,
like the regular fuel cans and then depending
on what kind of stove system you want to
go with, everyone's totally different.
Um, I personally liked, I just run a MSR, uh,
like the pocket rocket, I believe it's called.
Um, and then, uh, ran a Reactor 2.
Super good systems, they all work.
Just making sure you have something that's
gonna be able to boil your water and then
you're gonna want to look at if you are going in
the winter or whatever.
Um, making sure something that
regulates is probably pretty important too.
I know I ran a, just a pocket rocket on the
trip last year and I had a bunch of issues
with it so, luckily one of my friends
had a better stove.
But, uh, yeah, just having a good fuel
system and good stove is going to be pretty
important because we all need to eat
while we're out there.
So the issues were just, at altitude,
it wasn't uh.
Temperature.
Okay.
Part of the temperature, just, I don't
know what it was.
It wasn't made to yeah, definitely was
not made for being used in the winter.
Um, but uh, a lot of the guys like to have
something that has some sort of shield
too, that is going to protect from the wind.
Right.
Just cause that'll affect you boil time and all
that type of stuff too.
So you thinkin', um, you going, uh, the
butane canisters?
Yep, yeah.
Over top of, uh, gas?
Yeah.
Yeah, I always go butane.
Yeah, exactly.
I've never ran anything else, I've
never had the need to.
I know guys have talked about using stoves that
are interchangeable and stuff as well.
I know there's some of those available
on the market.
I think it might be called a WhisperLite
from MSR has one.
Yeah.
But yeah, I've always just ran butane and
I've never had an issue to date and
hopefully I don't ever have an issue with it.
Okay.
How many canisters are you taking up?
Depends on the trip.
So I, will generally will run one of the
bigger, I believe it's 450, I want to say.
Okay.
Um, I'll take one, one of those, if I'm just
going to be me for like seven days and an area
where I'm not going to be boiling a lot of
water for the winter hunts, I double that up
and take a little but of extra, tends to last.
But, uh, it all depends.
I ,even if you're just doing a small weekend
trip, even some of those, I don't remember
the exact size, but the smaller butane, just like
the red, smaller butane bottles, that'll get
you through the week or a weekend if you're not
sitting there boiling all day long, right.
Right.
You know, be conscientious of what
you have for fuel and be conscientious, a few
what you have for water.
Um, some guys tend to get a little crazy, but
I mean, for me, I know I personally like, we'll
get into food after, but uh, I like to have
a miso soup midday.
So I'll boil up some, a little bit of water
so I know I'm going to have to take a little
bit extra fuel for that extra meal that
I want to boil midday.
Right.
But you know, it's all like personal and what
makes you comfortable with being out there.
Um, optics is a big one if we want
to touch on that.
Sure.
Yeah.
Um, so for mountain hunting,
I prefer a 10x42.
Some guys run 12 power and some guys run 8.
I've always found that 10 is kind of that
perfect in between.
My hands aren't the steadiest, so running a
12 power I find a little bit of shake in it.
Uh, one of the big things a lot of guys
do and I've started doing it too, is find
a system where you can run your, uh, binoculars
on your tripod.
So whatever sort of attachment is that
you need, get that attachment and just put
your binoculars on that tripod for any extended
period of glassing.
And you're going to find a ton more game.
There's no shake, you're super comfortable
at super steady.
It's, it's pretty impressive.
I didn't believe it until I tried it.
All these guys were saying, oh, you gotta
do this, you gotta do this, it helps.
But how much can it help?
I just put my elbows on my knees and
glass and right.
But I tried it and yeah, it's pretty unbelievable.
You bothering with the spotting scope as well?
Oh yeah.
My spotting scope does not leave my pack.
So I personally just bit the bullet right away, I
went to a Swarovski, uh, 65 mm, 25 to 60 power,
um, spotting scope that I hope will last me for
the rest of my life.
Uh, there, I mean, Swarovski is the
top in the market.
Right.
Uh, but having, I think up to 60 power's pretty
important, uh, as long as it's good glass, because
if it's not great glass, having that 60 powers.
Means nothing.
Not going to, yeah, exactly, not going to
mean a whole lot to you and any type of mountain
hunts, especially because whether your
sheep hunting, your goat hunting or your caribou
hunting, you gotta identify, you know, if
your hunting area where it's a five-point bull
or with elk, if its a six point bull having
that good glass is going to, you know, could very
well make the difference on you being successful
or not being successful.
So making sure that you got that, uh, moving
on from there, uh, just miscellaneous stuff
that I like to have.
For all these types of hunts, is always
electrical tape.
That's a big one that I've just found is
pretty nice to have.
And what I do is I just take my electrical
tape, I learned this from a friend, and I
tape it around one of the legs of my tripod,
just so it's not loose.
Okay.
So I'll tape it around there and then I can
always just unroll it off of there and use
it for whatever I need.
Um, fire cubes are nice to have.
A lot of people and myself included tend
to take a floss.
Sure.
Yeah.
Just having floss just because there's nothing
worse than having something stuck in your
teeth and bothering you.
And that'll just throw off your mental
a little bit too.
So just having that, and then the other
thing that floss works good for too is if you
do take an animal and you're trying to get some
pictures and you can't get them off, shut, just
take a little bit of floss and tie it around
there, it holds a shot.
A good tip.
Yeah.
You're a toothpaste, your toothbrush, I
like to take those mini travel toothbrushes.
The ones at first was to fold into each other or
folding within itself.
And I only take the one half that's actually
the toothbrush part just to cut on the weight.
And then medical kid, of course.
Uh, and those are the main things
that I always have.
What do you throw in your med med kit?
Uh, nothing too crazy.
I like.
More blister care?
A little bit of blister care.
Um, I've learned to not ever, uh, I mean
everyone's different, but I've just kind of used
gauze for the most part and taped it up for now
and then I pull it off.
I've found with like anything like a lot of
the blister medics and stuff, it'll just pull
any of that scabbing or anything that starts
to heal right off.
And then you've just opened up
the wound again.
So I've tried to avoid that and I've just kind
of put gauze on there and then I tape it up
for the most part and let her breathe whenever
I got a little bit of time to, and I've had
success, I'm sure some guys will have different
opinions on that, but it's to each their
own and whatever guys are comfortable with.
Uh, moving into food.
Food's a big one.
That you can gain and lose weight in, in terms
of, you know, how heavy your pack is going to be.
And the one thing with food and talking to a
lot of guys that have my same level experience or
more experiences, if you want to get light food,
it's going to be, you know, the more you're
spending, let's just kind of the only way.
Um, I think it's important for guys to
identify how much food they need in a day.
Don't listen to forums, don't go and read all
these things online.
Know what you need in a day, cause everyone's
totally different.
You know, 150 pound guy in a 250 pound
guy are gonna need certain amounts of
food and they're not going to be the same.
It's just, it's not.
So know how many calories you need, uh, figure that
out first and then figure out where you want to
get those calories from.
Personally, I like having a good breakfast in the
morning and a good meal at night, and then just
snacking during the day.
And that's what I've always had success with.
I only need about 26 to 2,800 calories a
day when I'm in the mountains, which is less
than a lot of people.
Some guys need 3,500 or 4,000 calories.
I just, I don't need that to survive.
And I've also found that one of the things to
take into consideration too, is not all of
your days are going to be high output days.
So you're not always going to need all
of those calories.
You're going to have days where you're just
sitting in glass and you don't need as much food.
So there's a lot of times when I have a lot of
food that's left over for days where I have those
high output days and need a little bit extra.
Are you, uh, hiking in freshie?
Or are you freeze dried or dehydrated?
Yeah, I'm, I'm, uh, all freeze dried.
I've been, um, using Peak Refuel.
Okay. For the last while.
Uh, probably last year.
And I've been really impressed with
all their stuff.
Mountain House is always good, you can
buy it off the shelf.
There's a lot of different options that
a lot of that are coming up, but, um, I use Peak
Refuel for the most part.
And then I try to get a lot of my calories from
as much fat food, like fat-based foods as I can.
So I've switched over to bars, like
uh, good fat bars.
Um, I'm really big fan of, uh, Honey
Stingers, if guys have never had Honey
Stingers, definitely give them a shot.
Uh, like I said before, I always like
having Lipton or not, Lipton, uh miso soup.
It's just a pick me up in the middle of the
day, boil some water and you get a little bit
of extra salt in there.
And then I'll take an ounce of olive
oil and add that in there too for a couple
extra calories so.
Smart.
Yeah, I store that in a cup and I drink it
and a couple of buddies have looked at me
like, are you actually eating miso soup on
top of a mountain?
And I'm like, yeah, it helps me feel better.
What's it to ya.
Mental mindset.
It's it's huge.
Yeah, exactly.
Um, beef jerky, something that I always take, just
packing a little beef jerky, and it's part
of the mental thing.
Just something good that I enjoy eating day in
and day out because you remember you're eating
the same thing every single day for the most
part so, beef jerky is just something I can
eat every single day and have no problem.
Same with trail mix, I like having trail mix so.
Right.
That's always a good one to have a Moon Cheese
is one that not a lot of guys have heard of it.
If you go to MEC, you can get it.
It's like a dehydrated cheese.
Okay.
You either love it or you hate it so, yeah.
Yeah.
It's definitely worth trying to a lot of
calories in it and it's pretty light.
I don't mind it, but some guys can't stand it
and other guys love it.
So they'll live off of it.
Moon Cheese.
Yeah. Moon Cheese.
It's a dehydrated cheese, there's different
brands for it, but that's just the one that I've
been using just cause it's nice and easy.
And you just go to MEC and pick it up.
Like I had a lot of guys swear by Clif Bars.
I can't get, I cannot eat a Clif Bar.
Yeah, they're not my favorite.
Yeah.
They're just, I'm like, I'm not going to take
this because I feel like I need whatever's in it.
There's way better ways to figure out
a way to get it.
They just remind me of Homer Simpson eaten the
compressed apple cores in the he's doing his little
mountain adventure.
Yeah, definitely big there guys, like,
um, then good on ya.
Fair enough.
But for me, that's definitely not a, it's
definitely not where I want to get some
of the calories from.
Um, and the other one that's been really
nice is, it's called Justin's Almond Butter.
And it's like, almost like a Nutella, just
a packet of Nutella.
I'll just eat that like kind of after
breakfast or something.
And lots of calories comes from fats and
it's all good for you.
So that's kind of where my food is and
what my go-to is.
And then the only other thing is, I mean,
everyone's different on their rifle and
what they like to use.
Um, the one thing with a rifle is you don't
want to be carrying around a 12 pound
rifle in the mountain, ideally, most guys don't.
Um, so the other thing, I am personally right now
building a rifle because I wanted something that
fits for what I want and having a 24 to 26 inch
barrel I found was very, very annoying because it
caught everything up and.
Right. Above my head.
So I just built a rifle that had a 20
inch, or that has a 20 inch barrel because
it sits below my head.
It's not going to be catching anything
a little bit more compact, but.
What kind of action you building it on?
Defiance, anTi.
Nice.
So the new defines anti with a carbon barrel
and Gunwerk stock so.
Wow, going all out on this one.
Yeah.
I feel like it's my rifle.
That's going to be my full mountain hunting
rifle and, uh, built it in a totally new
caliber that a lot of people have kind of
been, uh, excited about.
It's not a totally new caliber, it's
actually an older calibre, but, but it's
become popular again.
Um, and it's seems to perform well with
a short barrel so
What's it chambered in?
7 SAUM.
Nice.
Yeah.
So it'll be a, it's not chambered yet.
It's going to the gunsmith tomorrow,
but I'm excited to see how it turns out and
get shooting and get a load worked up for it.
And that'll be my mountain rifle.
And it's my kind of, you know, a lot of
guys, oh, there's no one rifle to do it all.
And I'm like, yeah, you're right.
There's not one rifle to do all, but I'm
comfortable with what I just put together
that any mountain game in BC I'd be
comfortable with that so
What's it uh, well, I guess once it's all
put together, you'll know, but w what are you
hoping to weigh in at?
It's going to be just shy of eight pounds.
So it will be, I did quick math yesterday.
It's seven, seven quickly on the math that I did.
I'm not a ultra light guy.
Like I don't believe in a six pound rifle.
Cause I believe you lose shootability in
a six pound rifle.
You tend to get a lot of whip, bit more recoil.
I just don't enjoy it.
That seven and a half to eight and a half
pound range is kind of what I thought was
my, or I personally believe is perfect
for a mountain rifle.
And some guys will listen to this and think, oh
no, it's way too heavy, but to each their own.
I just shootability, packability, are both
things that I consider and I mean, shootability
is a big, big, big factor that you got to take
into effect or take into.
Huge. Account.
So yeah, if you can pack a rifle around,
but can't shoot it, what good is it?
Exactly.
Yeah.
It's not every time that it's one shot, one kill.
So, you know, I take that into account.
And, uh, I think that's, most of all the
gear that I'm taking.
Little lighter or a striker,
what're you using?
Uh, I usually pack a lighter and then a small
striker, just a, one of those, like they're
called the ferro rod.
Yeah.
It just takes a small ferro rod.
Um, and then some of the fire cubes actually have,
uh, it's kind of like a ferro rod too, that comes
with them when you buy the pack of fire cubes.
They're nice to have, they're like under an
ounce and just throw them in wherever.
So lightweight.
Yeah.
So it's nice to have those kinds of things
and have a bunch of different options.
Definitely don't want to rely on just
having one lighter.
Some guys like waterproof matches.
I used to carry em, I don't carry them so much
anymore, just cause I have the ferro rod, the
lighter and that other little piece, so I've
been okay without it.
Um, but matches are good to have.
And then, uh, some guys I used to carry up like
an emergency candle, I don't know why.
Just like a level of comfort.
Yeah, like a little tealight right?
Yeah.
I'd carry that sometimes.
I haven't been using it as much in the last
couple of years, but uh, they're they're,
they are kind of nice to have and just kind
of throw in the tent and that kind of stuff.
Um, I, I always take a, I'm drawing a blank
again, a sponge with me.
I learned this on a, from a film.
When you're out there, you're spending a lot
of nights, your tent tends to build up all
that condensation, so just having that sponge.
Good point.
And, yeah cleaning off that, uh, condensation,
that's built up on the top of the tent
so that you don't get up and get soaked.
Yeah, disgusting but good point.
Yeah.
Exactly.
Good to have.
Uh, I'm just trying to think if there's any,
those are the main things that, uh, I like to have
a little titanium cup is always nice to have
for, you know, if you wanna have some drinks,
if you want to take a little bit of whiskey or
whatever, mix that in, it's always nice to kind
of have on the mountain for a little bit of a
pick me up, especially for those long, long
days or when you're not having any success.
And you're sitting there at night and you just
need something to help you feel a little better.
That's always an option too.
Um, but yeah, those are, those are the main
things that I'm taking.
A lot of guys, like I'm taking different type
packets for mixing into their water, whether it's
like a Wilderness Athlete packet or just something
to get their electrolytes and everything back in.
So it's good to have to.
You do those?
Uh, I do.
Yeah.
I just started last year taking some
of the Wilderness Athlete packs with me.
Okay.
And they have a nice, it's nice to have a
little bit of flavor in the water too.
Yeah.
And I mean, I can't say I feel like a hundred
times better because I took, you know,
packer electrolytes, but it definitely does
help in the long run.
Um, yeah.
That's most of my kit there trying to think
if there's anything else that's specialized
to mountain hunting, but I mean, that covers
it for the most part.
And everyone's going to have a
variation of something like that right.
So everyone's going to have their opinion,
but I think the most important thing is just
build your own opinion on what works for you.
Right, go there, try it.
Exactly.
You know, there's only one way to figure out
if it's going to be for you, it's by trying it,
uh, having a, actually another thing is a lot
of guys like to have a SOL tarp, just a
glass under and stuff.
I always keep a lightweight one in my
pack pack, uh, covers you from the rain or
even from the sun, if it's hot day, right.
You just set that up and you get out of
the sun and just to another added level
of comfort for sure.
What size SOL tarp are you takin?
Uh, mine's an 8x10,.
It's the Kifaru Sheep Target.
Believe it's 8x10 and super lightweight.
It's just under a pound, I believe, uh, fits
anywhere in the pack.
And it's super easy to pull out, hanging
out with your, uh, your hiking poles.
Oh, hiking poles.
There you go.
Yeah.
Didn't even think about that one.
See that's what I usually wrap my tape around.
Yeah.
A lot of guys do that too.
Uh, but I think, I don't know how many guys
I've talked to, like you take hiking poles?
I'm like, yeah I take hiking poles.
Totally.
You've got a 120 pound pack you're talking
about, it'd be kind of nice with hiking poles.
Yeah, exactly.
So I think hiking poles everyone should
have, unless you're not, I mean, some
guys aren't gonna like it, but they're
super nice to have.
And uh, yeah that's everything for the
most part I think.
Carbon fiber or aluminum?
I use aluminum.
Yeah.
I've just had the same ones for six
years and they haven't failed me yet.
So why change?
Fair enough.
That's kind of been my approach on it.
I'm sure I'll switch out, but I look at the
price of carbon poles and I'm like, yeah.
So expensive!
Yeah, I'm like my aluminum poles have done
just fine for six years.
I'm sure they will uh, until they break out,
keep running though.
I think you covered everything there.
And then of course, if you're in the winter
side, you're looking at crampons possibly and.
Yeah.
Oh definitely.
Crampons, climbing ropes.
And I mean, other hunts, you might need a climbing
rope too, but again, only if you're comfortable
with it and you have the right training and or you
have someone with who's comfortable in using it.
What size rope you're taking?
Uh, the one I took last year was about 200 feet
with 9.8 mil dynamic.
Um, and we only really needed it for like,
we would tie it up to kind of lower ourselves
down onto the goat and then to tie up
the goat a little bit, just to support a while
we were cleaning it.
Um, so we didn't need it for anything, like
at no point did I ever have to put my harness
on luckily, but, uh, the other rope was good.
I mean, it's an extra seven pounds.
You got to carry in your, right in your backpack,
which kind of sucks.
But you know, it could be worth it in the end.
Um, yeah and I mean, for those winter hunts,
crampons, ice ax.
Ice ax is a big one, I took a bad spill and
luckily had my ice.
They wouldn't have been anything where I have
got seriously hurt cause I hit some pretty good
powder after, but digging my ice ax into the ice
was a good way to slow my, slow my fall down a
little bit, or my slide.
It's a pretty thorough list.
Yeah.
I, I mean, you spend a lot of time out there.
You just kind of start to learn what
works for you and what doesn't work for you.
And like I said, everyone's
totally different.
And you know, everyone likes to, I'm a Kuiu
guy or I'm a Sitka guy, or I'm a Kifaru guy, or
I'm a FirstLite guy and there's a lot of the
back and forth banter.
But at the end of the day, it's all going to
get you on the mountains.
And a lot of guys don't buy any of that stuff and
they go to MEC and they buy whatevers there, or.
Right. Atmosphere, right.
Or Arc'Teryx, like it's all good gear, right.
It's all made for being on the mountains.
And if it's good enough for guys who
are mountaineering, I'm sure it's good enough
for guys we're hunting.
Yeah. Good point.
Yeah.
So winter hunt, you're talking about doing a
goat hunt in the winter.
Yeah.
Can you, like first off, what prompted
this insanity?
Good question.
That's a very good question.
A couple of years ago, the guys at the Journal
Mountain Hunting did a winter goat hunt
that they recorded.
They put it out.
Uh, I watched it and I said, I got to do one
of these, like just the challenge and all of
that is it, it's insane.
And to watch that video really opened my eyes
to kind of some of the possibilities that we had
here in British Columbia.
So right after that, we, I started talking
to some friends who I knew might be interested
and they had already had a trip planned for
the following year.
So they went and did that and they sent me all the
pictures from that trip and it just like got the
blood boiling even more.
And I'm like, okay we definitely need
to do this planned one for 2020, which
I was lucky enough to have the the tag for.
And we went up February around the 20th of 2020,
and we walked in and I was fortunate enough
to get into a spot where we found a billy
pretty much on day one.
Um, and we were able to take that billy
on day one, but that wasn't the end of it.
The, the toughest part of that hunt
was trying to access the area we got into.
It was about six hours to get into a
spot where we could start glassing goats.
We were just fortunate enough to get on to a
good billy right away.
But from there is where a lot of the
adventure started.
Once that billy had hit the ground, we kind
of, I underestimated how difficult it was
going to be to get into a couple of spots.
And this comes into identifying where these
goats are going to die and we did, and we knew
that at any point we could get into, in some
areas, we're going to be a little bit more
difficult than others.
We tried making a play to get up to him
cause it was already pretty late that night.
It was about 5:30 and you don't have a ton
of light in February.
Right.
5, 5:30 and we tried getting up with
headlamps and we just couldn't do it.
It just wasn't safe.
So we had to back out, spend the night down
at the bottom and then make the play again
in the morning it took us, I believe, 13 hours
of climbing going up, getting rocked out back
and back down, going up, getting bluffed
out again, just working our way around until
we finally got to the goat and we're able to
start working on him.
And I think from the time we left the
tents to the time we recovered the goat, we
were able to cape him out and I caped 'em out
for like a life size.
So that took quite a bit of time.
Um, and then get him back down.
I think it was 16 or 17 hours, like a 16, 17 hour
just retrieval alone.
And we had some great weather on that trip.
And we kind of came out talking about, you know,
this isn't too bad, this winter goat thing
planned our 2021 trip.
So this year we went again at the same
time of the year.
I didn't have a tag this year.
Both of my friends, Lorne Trousdell
Mark Trousdell did.
And we had high expectations.
We just, the year before we'd done a three day.
Get it day one right?
Yeah.
We did a three-day goat hunt.
We saw lots of goats.
Yeah.
But, uh, the boys wanted to try a totally new
area, pretty foreign to us for the most
part, we had a little bit of information
from others, people.
So we got up, uh, we kind of did the drive
in one day, got up there and we hiked in later
into the evening, we did about three hours
to get in with a plan of doing a bit more
relocating the next day and get further back
into the valley, did a little bit of, um, Google
earth on the phones.
We had saved kind of the maps in the area
and figured we were in a decent area that night
where we could set camp and still be able to hunt
for a couple of days.
We got rained on, snowed on that night.
Woke up the next morning had no visibility.
We spent four days without moving more
than 150 yards from our tent, just because we
had zero visibility.
There was no point in moving further down
because we couldn't see anything, we didn't know
what was going to happen.
Avalanche conditions were pretty high throughout
the entire trip, just with the amount of rain
that was coming down.
Um, I remember at one point, I think it was day
two or day three, we're sitting there and we had,
we set it up pretty good.
We took two, two man tents, and then we
took a, a shelter and we set the shelter up
above and in between the two tents, just so
that, uh, we had a bit of a hangout area and
we kind of dug it out.
And the three of us could kind of sit
huddled in there and just hang out and
talk and listen to our podcast or read a book.
But yeah, we spent uh, day two, we're
sitting there, uh, having dinner I think,
and it was raining.
And all of a sudden, you just kind of heard
a little bit of a crack and some start to slide
and this avalanche broke off across the valley.
I think it was about 400 yards down valley
and it was insane, like just the crashing boom.
You could hear the trees snapping off and we went
and checked it out the next day and the snow had
came right off and built up right at the bottom of
this big avalanche shoot.
And you're just thinking like, wow, like, you
know, when you set your camp, you pick a spot
that you're not in any sort of real avy shoot,
but you know, if guys don't know what they're
looking for, someone doesn't know where they
should or shouldn't camp could get really
dangerous really quick.
Totally.
So yeah, it was, I hadn't had any real big
avalanches around me ever before that, but that
one going off was kind of eyeopening for sure.
But yeah.
So the next couple of days, again, we just kind
of spent it at the tent.
Um, day four I remember sitting, going to sit
up and my hips were just shot from laying
down so much sitting and laying down so much.
I'm like, I just, I can't do this.
And you're wet the entire time, it's coastal
conditions in February.
You're on a ton of snow and then it's raining on
you the whole time too.
So, remember looking at the weather and tell him
one of the guys I'm like, should we just pull out?
Like we haven't seen any goats in the time we've
actually been able to glass kind of the faces
in the mountains, around us, the conditions aren't
looking like they're going to get any better.
Like, I don't, I don't know what we should do.
Um, my friend Lorne, he just does not give up.
Like he has no quit in him, like, if we're there
for eight days, we're there for eight days
and it doesn't matter unless we cut a tag,
we're not coming out.
Good for him.
So I'm like, okay, we're in it for the long haul.
You guys came with me and packed out my goat.
I'm here to help too.
So day five, we finally caught a little bit of
break in the weather and we went about 9k
down valley that day and did some glass and
then got into an area that looked a little
bit like it had a little bit more potential.
But at this point, all of our gear was so soaked
and so wet, we hadn't brought our camp with us.
We just kind of got down valley as
quick as possible.
And when you're going through that much snow
and a lot of the snow softened up and you're
still in snow shoes, but it's hard to break
through sometimes and just get down.
Oh yeah.
Valleys.
It's it's a bit of a nightmare.
So we packed it back out and on the way
back store, another storm rolled in.
And I remember hitting the creek at one point
and looking at the guys and it just hammered
down snow on us.
And they took a picture, uh, where we're just
covered, like within a couple minutes of
stopping, we're just all white covered,
trying to fill our water bottles on this creek.
And I'm like, mad, what are we doing here?
Like this is, it makes no sense.
Sounds like a survival exercise.
A little bit, in a way yeah.
Um, we got back to camp and then the
next day the weather broke for us again.
We were able to do some more glass in and we've
got down the valley and day six I think
it was, we finally saw our first goats.
We, uh, saw three billies and, um, in
a spot where we knew we could access them.
And we weren't sure if we were going to make a play
at them, it was kind of getting late in the day
and, uh, just couldn't make it happen that day.
But we made a decision that we're going to
come back the next day, a day that I had said,
if we don't see any goats were taken off,
like this is getting.
But anyway, so we did, we came back in
that day and we made a play up the mountain.
And again, just kind of like the year before you
kind of underestimate how much time it's going to
take you to get up some of these spots and climb
up through, and you're using an ice ax and you
got your crampons on, and you're switching between
crampons and snow shoes, depending on kind of what
the conditions you're in.
But yeah, we made a play up to these goats were,
thinking we might be able to get a good look at
them and just couldn't once we got up there,
just couldn't find what we were looking for.
And, you know, you always kind of under
judged the stuff you might be in and.
Right.
Came out that, came back down that night
and we're kind of hiking back towards camp
and we're all pretty defeated and no success.
And I remember looking at the guys and we're
just kinda like, I think I said to them, I'm
like, I could really use a pizza tonight.
Cause we're like, I think it was day seven, it
might've even been eight.
And they kind of all, were they looked at each
other and they looked at me and we kind of
decided, all right, well, let's just pack up camp
and head out tonight.
And at this point it's like 9:30, 10
o'clock at night.
And we still got two hours to get back
towards our camp.
And then two to three hours depending to
hoof out and you're doing a goat hunt in
the winter, you're taking a ton of gear.
Like our packs, none of our packs were
under 75 pounds.
So it's just get back to camp that night,
pack it all up.
And we start doing this hike out at night
and it's, I believe it was a full moon cause
I remember like my headlight died and I
was still was lit with a full moon behind me.
And just like, the whole time again,
questioning that type two fun attitude.
Like, why am I doing it?
Why do we do this?
Why did I come here?
Why did I just took a week off work to
come and do this?
Like just super frustrated.
And you kinda get back to the truck that night
and you sit down at the truck and you know,
we always just have a hangout or have a drink
or have a little bit normal food that we
left in the truck and kind of sat back, relax
and talked about it.
Get out of there, start driving in the middle
of the night and find somewhere you can get
a motel for the night.
We're able to get pizza that night.
Nice.
Take a shower and then, you know, you're kind
of sitting there and it's like, I dunno, it
was like two, three in the morning or something
and we're looking at each other and we're
like, yeah, that sucked.
But we'll probably be here again next year
just doing it again.
It's that type two thing.
Cause you know, we're suckers for pain I guess.
But um.
You know, it's a feeling of accomplishment
when it's done.
Yeah, exactly.
And that's just like, there's no success.
We had, you know, we didn't take a goat
this year, but we'll definitely be back there
again to do it again and try and take a goat.
Still the feeling of accomplishment as a team,
going out there and, and at least doing that,
you know, I always, I always have a difficult
time when I make the harvest of the animal
the ultimate goal.
Exactly.
And when, when, if that is my ultimate goal,
then I'm either going to be happy or not.
Yeah.
And I I've always made it a very big
point, particularly with, with my kids as
well at the, uh, the journey is the, the
adventure, the journey is the point of it and.
Definitely.
If you're successful or not on the harvest
that that's just icing on the cake.
Absolutely.
Yeah, definitely.
And you know, when you're doing those kinds
of trips, especially these winter goat
hunts, like you're, you're definitely doing
it for the adventure.
You're not going out there just.
Right.
For the reason that you want to harvest them.
Like you're going out there for the
challenge, the adventure, the memory,
all of that right.
So, and you get some pretty cool pictures
along the way, I'll tell ya that.
Oh, totally.
Yeah.
So 2022 doing it again?
I'm going to take a year off this year, I think
from 2022, although just this past weekend,
I kind of, might've got roped into one.
I don't know.
We'll kind of see.
Um, the guys are planning one already, so we'll
see what happens.
I might end up swinging into it and doing it.
Well, we'll see, I told them I'd be sending them
text messages from Mexico drinking a pina colada,
but that may not happen.
We'll see.
I love it.
Yeah.
So if people wanted to learn more about what
the Goat Alliance does, you guys have a website?
Yeah.
Um, obviously that's a pretty good place
to check it out.
Yep.
Um, do they have any, would you be a local
contact on there?
Yes, exactly.
So that, that's the whole point of this new
regional representative program is that everyone
in all these respective different areas is
going to have someone or a point of contact
for the Goat Alliance.
And I'll be one of two, that'll be in
British Columbia.
And more than likely, I'll be kind of
handling the west side of the province.
And hopefully someone will be on the east
side of the province, or however, we're going
to decide to divide that up, but we'll sort that
out, but yeah, I can be that point of contact.
There's also the social media channel, like the
Instagram Goat Alliance.
That's a, that's a big one and a really
good one to check out in the website,
GoatAlliance.org.
That's obviously where guys can go and sign
up and get signed up for a membership or do
whatever they want to do.
And there's tons of great information.
There's blog posts on there.
There's all sorts of different
things on there.
So, what other things that people need to
know about what the Goat Alliance does?
And if they really want to get involved with
this, what would they be expecting to do?
So, one of the big aspects of the Goat
Alliance is citizen science and the idea
of citizen science and doing citizen science.
Uh, the surveys are a really big one and
there's been tons of surveys done by the
Goat Alliance down in the states and people
love going out to them, but that's a really big
way to get involved.
Obviously membership's a big one too, because
no organization works without the dollars
and we can't help different people
in different places without putting money
on the ground, as well.
As nice it has to have boots on the
ground, those dollars help a lot as well.
Huge.
Yeah, exactly.
So signing up for a membership on there and
then reaching out to, even on the social media
page or whether that, or reaching out directly
to me to talk about upcoming, any upcoming
projects or anything like that, there's always
something going on that people can get involved
in or talk to us about.
Or if they've got ideas, if they've seen something
come up outdoor, or they were doing a mountain
goat hunt and they noticed something that
seemed a little odd, shoot us a message.
Let's talk about it and see if there's
something that Goat Alliance can do there.
So I'm going to put links up both on
the YouTube page.
They're going to have them in the podcast
and we'll do a little blog post as well
with all of that information in there.
So anyone who's listening to this, just check
out the website, check out the, uh, you'll see
it right here, right there on your podcast.
All of that information will be
right there for you.
Yeah.
Awesome.
Is there anything else that we should
be talking about?
Some people say.
Why would I want to do that?
It sounds like an awful lot of work for
a small bit of meat.
Yeah.
Well, I mean, I think there's a lot to, uh, the
adventure when it comes to goat hunting is one
of the biggest things, in my opinion, uh, watching
these animals who live in some of the craziest
craziest places that you could imagine, you're
just trying to figure out how they're even walking
on some of these bluffs.
Right.
Just watching it is amazing.
Um, so just accessing it and seeing it
is, is super cool.
And then the ability to, again, it comes up
again is take the right animal, taking that right
out and finding that right billy, I believe
is definitely part of the allure as well.
Um, you want to take an old mature animal,
you don't want to be taken a two year old
animal or whatever, but chasing and taking the
right billy and making sure you're not taking
a nannie, I think adds to that challenge.
And for me, it.
I love the challenge.
Like, I, I don't want to go out and take something
and just come home every time I go hunting right.
Right. So, um.
That'd be called shopping.
Exactly.
Right.
And I think that's part of why the group of
people that I hunt with and stuff now started
doing these winter hunts is just that added
element of the challenge.
And we're going in on four to six feet of snow
sometimes underneath us and camping in just
below avalanche shoots.
And this year we had avalanches popping off
around us and it just adds to everything it
adds to the experience.
It adds to why we're out there, the stories,
the memories, it's just, it's awesome.
And then when you do take one of these goat,
like I've, I've only personally taken one.
I've been on a few now where we were successful,
but I've personally taken one and it was
the end of February and walking up to it.
And in some parts I got 12 inches of hair and
they're like massive animals, like 250
to 300 pound animal.
It's so cool.
And they live in the, yeah.
Going back to the country, like they just
live in the most awesome places on some of those
sketchy rock bluffs.
And yeah.
Are you loving it when you're out there and
you're slogging through the snow or are you
loving it in retrospect, when you think back
about the hunt?
It's definitely type two fun.
Yes. 100%.
It is type two fun.
Yeah.
There's been many times when I'm out there and
I questioned my sanity and question why we're
even out there in these kinds of conditions and
you come back and you sit back for six months and
you're like, yeah, yeah.
I can't wait to get out there and do it again.
I I've heard it described like the,
uh, the rollercoaster.
Hey, you're fun on the rollercoaster, but you
don't look back and say, man, that roller coaster
ride share was great.
Whereas something like this, where you're
pushing yourself and your well outside of
your comfort zone, and you sometimes
might hate yourself during the process.
Yeah.
But you look back on that and it's just
ingrained in your mind as a positive memory that
you'll always remember.
Type two fun.
I like that.
So a lot of people refer to it and I
mean, it's a perfect way to talk about it.
Like in the moment you're questioning why
you're there and then you get back and you
look back on it and you remember why you're
there and you can't wait to do it again.
So I'm going to have to, uh, get my rearing
gear and, uh, start planning a goat hunt.
Yeah, definitely.
And like I said, living in British Columbia.
We have so much opportunity in so
many different areas, whether you want to
put in through our draw system or just do an
over the counter tag.
And there's so many different types of
country you can go into.
There's so many different levels of access that
you can go into when it comes to hunting these
goats, that the options are kind of endless.
And we're so fortunate for that.
Uh, we can do combination hunts with other species.
A lot of guys tend to go on sheep hunts,
and then they pack a goat tag as well,
uh, or caribou hunts.
And, you know, the goats are kind of up above ya.
Right.
Yeah.
There's a lot of that.
Even when you go into Eastern BC, you can
do an elk hunt and you could be holding a goat
tag in your pocket if you've got to draw and
you're elk tag or your elk hunt can switch into
a goat hunt pretty quick.
Like, it's just so awesome to have a species
that's so all over our province and we have
so much access to being able to hunt them.
And I think a lot of guys tend to overlook that.
And then once you do your first goat hunt, you're
kind of hooked on it.
You're like, why did I never do this before?
Why did I never think about doing this before
everyone's hung up on hunting elk and chasing
a bugle or chasing full curl rams, right?
Where you don't think so much about goats because
they have these eight to 10 inch horns and, you
know, they don't maybe show as well, but when
you get into the actual venture and you do the
actual trip, it's, I'd say there's a lot more
adventure and there's a lot more interesting
moments on a goat hunt than anything else.
No kidding.
So if you're looking at optimal goat area, what
would you be looking for?
It's tough to say.
So I'm going to it'll depend on what
part of the province I'm going to be in.
So generally, if you look at coastal British
Columbia, it's tends to be steep, very steep,
very timbered areas.
And I found that a lot of the goats tend
to live right around treeline or in these
rock bluffs that tend to be right around trees.
Just, they have a lot of escape routes.
Look for something that has a ton
of escape routes.
When you look up in, towards Northern British
Columbia, a lot of these goats like to live in
grassy bowls or just above those grassy bowls
where a rock faces up above, uh, somewhere
that again, they have that escape terrain
and that escape terrain is a big thing to look
for because it's a way for them to get away
from predators as well.
They're going to want that level
of safety, right?
A goat can get up a rock face.
Grizzly bear probably can't or a Wolf
probably can't.
So identifying scape trends, identifying
those go-to areas.
Um, and depending on what the conditions are
like, you know, like a lot of species, south
facing generally, uh, depending on that time
of year, you're going to want to be focusing
on, um, not always.
And that another thing that we've seen
with goats too, is, uh, depending on the
temperatures and what the conditions are
like, if it's hot out, they're going to try
to find some snow.
Anywhere there's a glacier snow,
they're going to want to live on that.
Cause it's cool right?
Right.
So if you're hunting that Northern BC where it can
be 30 plus degrees at the start of August, and you
might have a goat tag, maybe try and identify
where the glaciers are, where you're going to be
able to find some snow cause you might find some
goats in there as well.
That's a good point.
Yeah.
A best time of day?
Uh, I found with goats, you can kind of, they,
they tend to bed mid day, a lot, like any other
animal and they tend to move in the mornings,
in the evenings, but they're white.
Like, unless you're hunting them in the
winter, generally you're looking for a
white on a rock face.
So I found that goats are probably the
easiest animal to pick out when you're
doing some glassing.
Right.
Um, but again, it's still important to have good
glass when you're out there and making sure
that, uh, especially with the spotter and you're
able to identify and judge them and do it.
Do you ever solo hunt these?
I've never solo hunted
goats no, that's not something I would
personally want to do.
I mean, a lot of guys do it and all the power to
them, but I've just found myself in some situations
when I was goat, when I've been goat hunting,
that I would not want to be there by myself.
We've been roped up.
We, when we do our winter hunts, we carry, um,
small packable harnesses and usually about 200
feet of climbing rope.
Obviously make sure you got someone on the trip
that knows knotting and knows how to climb and.
Right.
Has experienced with that.
Um, cause you don't want to get into a situation
where you think you're more comfortable than
you actually should be and put yourself into a
bad situation of course.
But yeah, definitely not something I don't
think I'd want to do solo, maybe go out
and scope for them solo, but I wouldn't
actually get right into the nasty by myself.
Right.
But to each their own of guys, you know, there's
guys that don't have a lot more mountaineering
and backpacking and climbing experience than
I might have that are comfortable with that.
Um, I know there's some guys in the province that
do it by themselves and they don't go anywhere
without having a helmet on just in case like
just having that safety aspect of it right.
That's smart.
And I think it's important that anyone,
when we're going out and chasing these animals
have a certain way to keep in contact or
keeping communication with people on the
outside when you don't have cell reception, just
in case something like that does happen right.
Right.
Like a little inReach or a spot, or are you
even bother with, uh, sat phones anymore?
I haven't seen a satphone since that
first fly in hunt action I did six years ago.
I've I've never had great success with sat phones.
No, they're, they're cut pretty in and out
and pretty limited on how much you can
actually use them, but.
And they're heavier.
Yeah, they are.
But yeah, they definitely are.
I've just had good success with an inReach
and I think that's probably the best way to
go or one of the better ways to go for sure.
Yeah.
So even like going back to the Rocky Mountain
Goat Alliance and just funding and stuff, I
had to pull out a note just to see a couple
of the things here, but like collar projects,
relocation projects, uh, research, and then
aerial surveys, which are, you know, I didn't
think about that at first because RMG just
funded an aerial survey here in Chilliwack.
Um, those are just some of the places like I know
someone will ask, where does the dollars go?
Where does the money go, those have been some
of the biggest projects so far, is putting
those things together.
And like for example, collars, collars are
not cheap, but they provide a ton of data
to RMG, to the local biologists, all of that.
So when we're able to provide funding for
collars, that's huge.
Biologist'a appreciate that as well.
So can people get involved with a
collaring project?
That's going to depend, I think on the area
that you're in and the biologist I know here
with British Columbia, generally with a project
like that, they're going to want to have more
of like the government employees on with that,
especially I think when it comes to goats, but
that, that may change because RMG is pretty
new into BC and we're still trying to build
those relationships.
We're working on building those relationships
with these biologists and maybe down the
road, that is something that we can get more
people involved in is putting some collars
on goats and doing some studies that way.
And I think it'd be pretty awesome to
have people be able to volunteer for that but.
No kidding.
Yeah, maybe one day that that will be a reality.
One of the first projects that mountain
goat or RMG ever did was a, a volunteer
survey in the Montana.
Um, now they've done them in Montana, South
Dakota, Washington, Utah, Idaho, Colorado.
And then this year, obviously in British
Columbia this past year, did the first
ever winter survey.
Okay.
That they had done.
Uh, I heard that the weather conditions
weren't ideal for that.
And I think it's a bit of a learning
curve for doing that.
In any time you want to go into the mountains
at that time of the year, you're going to.
Right.
There's going to be some hiccups and you're going
to run into some issues.
It's just the reality of what it is, but
it's pretty cool to be doing a winter survey.
Like just getting guys into the mountains
at that time of the year is awesome.
Is fun.
It's fun.
And it's hard to do, like, not a lot of guys
want to sign up to be in the mountains in
February or March or when there's six feet
of snow down right.
Right.
And it was kind of the same for Chilliwack here.
We, it was 43 degrees at one point when we
were out there, like it was, it was cooking.
I had, I was kind of traveling around and
going to visit as many guys as I could.
And I felt bad for some of the guys that
were doing those big climbs because it
was pretty nasty.
I know guys were starting at two o'clock in the
morning just to try and avoid the heat so.
Wow.
Yeah.
Now you've got your own Instagram page as well.
Yeah.
Did you want to plug that?
Uh, sure it's just my name.
Jeff Agostinho yeah, that's just, uh,
yeah where I'm at is Jeff Agostinho.
Would that be a good way for people to check
you out and kind of see some of the hunts
you're doing and see what you're up to?
Oh yeah, definitely.
People can check it out on there.
I try and post as many pictures as I can.
And just recap in the hunts or posting
pictures of our hunts.
Yeah, there's lots on there.
And if guys have any questions like RMGA
related or whatever related, just feel
free to shoot me a message on there.
I might not always be the fastest to respond,
but I'll definitely get back to you and
try and get you as many answers as possible.
Oh, Jeff that's fantastic.
Yeah.
Thank you very much for being here on The
Silvercore Podcast.
I really appreciate you taking the time.
Thanks for having me and having us come on to
talk about Goat Alliance.
I really appreciate that.
I love it.