Speaker 2 (00:00)
Hello, Liesel I am so excited and so happy to finally meet you in person. And the fact that we've been connected or social media for a while now and now today we're meeting in person is just so exciting. And this is actually the Guri Show Podcast's first in person podcast.

Speaker 1 (00:22)
Wow, I feel very

privileged.

Speaker 2 (00:24)
Yes, and I wanted to. I'm so happy that I'm doing this first in person with you because you're a very special person. love your social media presence. And the other reason is that I wanted to learn more about your journey and not just me. I'm sure there are out there, new and aspiring retreat leaders out there who want to learn.

journey and so that's why I wanted to do this in person. How are you doing?

Speaker 1 (00:55)
Very

cool. Well, I love that we get to meet in person in Bali and that because that's where I ran my first international retreat But I started like 33 years ago and running. I'm from near Melbourne.

Speaker 2 (01:02)
Right.

Speaker 1 (01:11)
Australia and I was running these in-person summits because back then retreats were like all vegetarian and yoga and super expensive. So I started bringing people together because I'd moved from Melbourne to a small country town and if you didn't play football, netball or do horse riding there was really nothing for young adults in their 20s and I was in my

and so I started organizing these summits that were around leadership and who you were as a leader and those sorts of things.

And I ran those for quite a few years, but they were a one-off, once a year. People came back time and time again, but I really realised that magic of when people came together. Then I started running, they went from mixed summits to women's retreats. And they were in Bali. And by that time, people were calling them retreats. And they were around...

cultural experiences, relaxation and remembering who you were as a person. So it's really grown since then. I was running them on my holidays. I was a social worker. I was working with really hard-end families that were involved in child protection and you know.

the authorities and those sorts of things. And I really got to the point where I needed to do something different. I was so burnt out and so exhausted and my then partner, now husband, said, why don't you run your retreats full time? And for me, it was that light bulb moment. And so I started running them. I had this vision of running one a month overseas.

every like all year. That was silly. You can't sustain that energy. ⁓ And also the marketing scene had started to change with more

Speaker 2 (03:16)
.

Speaker 1 (03:23)
retreats and more people in that space that were saying, hey, I do this, I do that. And so having to then market on social media was a whole other experience. But for me, I realized that was my passion. That joy of watching people's faces when they arrive and that difference. And you know what that's like. That difference when they leave is so pivotal for all the heart.

work and all the organizing and all the stuff that comes with retreats and I just

Speaker 2 (04:00)
It's what keeps you keep going.

Speaker 1 (04:03)
Yeah, yeah, 100%. And watching now that I coach, which I've been doing kind of for the past 10 years, but that stopped during COVID, of course, like everything we had to reinvent how we operated. And I remember

Like we'd just come out of the first Ultimate Girls League away in Fiji. Elizabeth Gilbert was our keynote. It was just the most phenomenal event. Literally three weeks later, the world shut down. And I remember watching the news and hearing about the border lockdowns.

and thinking that's the end of my business. what? Even though then we thought it would be like a one or two month thing, not years. But then after a couple of days where I really went into a very deep hole, because who am I now if I don't have this business and I didn't want to go back to social work, I...

going to be here at the end of this and my business is still going to stand. So I still showed up. I still posted. I still talked about, I can't wait to be together again with you. You know, we had 2021 locked in for the ultimate girls week away. had Gabrielle Bernstein committed to come to Vietnam, which was like, she was at the pinnacle of her, her

what she puts out there. So she talks about manifestation and she's very popular. Yes, I think so. yeah, yeah. And she was like, we'd have Elizabeth Gilbert, you know, author of A Pray Love. And I just went, you know what? This is not gonna end my business.

Speaker 2 (05:47)
Is she the author of the Super Step?

Speaker 1 (06:05)
But through COVID and coming out of COVID, the scene has changed. There's so much noise in the retreat.

Speaker 2 (06:17)
Even over

the last two years, if I'm not wrong.

Speaker 1 (06:23)
by 100 %

and people say you should be making $50,000 from your retreat or we laugh about that all the time you know or you know you should be doing this and you should be doing this and these are people that have maybe run some retreats but they've been you know

Sometimes what they say and what they put out there, doesn't match at all. Which I really, really dislike.

Speaker 2 (06:56)
Going back to what you were talking about, like what happened after the second retreat with Gabriel, what happened then?

Speaker 1 (07:06)
So we

had the Older Mcgills Week Away with Liz, literally weeks, the world shut down, but we had, yeah, we had like almost 80 bookings for 2021. And then I was like, after about, like we were still like, yes, this is gonna be okay, we're gonna be, then by the end of 2020 when we were like.

where is the end of this pandemic? We then started going, okay, not sure. But then of course we had...

We had to cancel the hotel, we'd paid money, we'd paid money to Gabby's agents, and then we're having to give people refunds. It was a nightmare. It was like that worst nightmare of retreats because suddenly having to refund, and even though your refund policies are pretty solid, you're having to refund because you're all canceling an event because of the pandemic and having to find all this money

to refund people. it was a really, really stressful period. And I think back to that time, and I wonder why I didn't just go, nah, too much, and go back to social work. But I knew that that retreat just before COVID was carrying women through that period that was to come. And I knew that I wanted to do

that more.

And of course we've come out the other side now and you know, 2023 and 2024 were hard, but this year it's feeling like for people that it's starting to change and that people are signing up to retreats that people are offering like there's so much noise like we said before and people are starting to really realise that running a retreat is not just a

⁓ let's do it. Time and effort and.

Speaker 2 (09:18)
I

was coming to the value system actually so when you said that you you've been through this difficult time and you still kind of came out of it stronger what do you think are the core values that you kind of helped you through that phase and also that could help lot of retrain leaders or coaches

Speaker 1 (09:46)
Wow,

that's a good question. I don't know whether this is a value, but persistency. Once I set my vision on the big picture and this is what I want, I don't give up. And I think for me, I think I know that transparency is a really core value of mine.

Speaker 2 (10:02)
Wow.

Speaker 1 (10:15)
because I want people to know how it really is. Sometimes to my detriment. I have people say to me sometimes, you need to not help people every. And I've got better at that.

Speaker 2 (10:21)
Thank you.

Everything.

Speaker 1 (10:32)
But those things and wanting people to experience this transformational experience. And I know when people haven't been on a retreat, they don't really get what that means. But that difference between how you feel before and after a good retreat, how you feel after is quite, you can't describe it.

Speaker 2 (10:46)
Yeah.

So persistence, transparency and just the feeling.

Speaker 1 (11:02)
Yeah,

yeah, I don't know if that's value or not but like being on it as a retreat facilitator hold that space so that people feel totally safe and comfortable is key.

Speaker 2 (11:17)
I think

that's definitely a value. So many people stop boosting retreats after their first... ⁓

Yeah, I love that. But like, let's talk about what has changed over the years. And not just in terms of how you observe the industry, but also in terms of like the changes that you've gone through as a educator, or even just as a person, you anything that you want to

Speaker 1 (11:47)
Yeah.

you

Well, I think one of the main things in the industry that I see is there's so much noise out outside there. My marketing manager, her and I talk a lot about that there's lots of smoke and mirrors and lots of misconceptions of how your retreat should be. ⁓ The marketing arena has definitely changed and being able to keep up with that and have a plan. used to be that you'd put a retreat out there and it would fill.

you

Speaker 2 (12:25)
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (12:26)
I can't

remember how we did it without social media, but every year I would have 20 to 30 young adults at my retreats. And then when I started, social media was quite new. like, sorry, when I stepped into it more on a full-time basis. year was it? Oh gosh. What year is it this year? 2025? About 2012 or 2013?

Speaker 2 (12:46)
So.

Speaker 1 (12:56)
12. Like really stepping into it in a serious way and starting to build the business.

Speaker 2 (13:04)
They

knew what I was doing in 2012. ⁓

Speaker 1 (13:11)
But yeah, learning to navigate that marketing. And while I say I have a marketing manager, like we do it together. We have lots of discussions and she's a marketing expert.

And for me, I realized I was at the pinnacle of what I knew. then moving forward to engage someone to grow my business. But I think if someone's still doing it themselves, which is most people, is that consistency, that vision of, know, okay, I want 12 people at my retreat. This is where they're to come from. Going to have four that are friends, three that are clients that have been before.

me tour their friends that sort of thing breaking down those numbers so it's not overwhelmed because we go ⁓ we watch 12 at our retreat people will sign up. Where are they from? Yeah where are they coming from? And it's really rare that they do do that.

Speaker 2 (14:05)
Sorry.

Also,

like you said that, and this I personally feel in my business and my journey as well, that there's a huge role of the team, even if it's just one person. And so how big are you on like just hiring people to like a social media manager, monthly, not on the retainership, but like maybe just a couple of hours.

Speaker 1 (14:25)
Yeah.

Yeah,

well definitely. No, I think that has can have a huge impact because if you're at the pinnacle of what you know, having someone to come in with a different perspective to say, okay, let's do these retreat, let's do these marketing steps, let's break down your social media, let's, you know, do this and you might hire someone for an hour to give you ideas. And that can be that thing that changes what you do. Yeah.

one idea might then spark that flow of social media and that you know being able to draw out from you those key

things to be like and you know, a few people will have seen, I had a post the other day of the week, don't know, I melt about, know, don't just talk about your retreat, talk about the feelings of your retreat, talk about your experiences, talk about those things so people connect with you rather than the vision of the retreat because it's really easy to get caught up in the planning and the marketing and that's

stress that I'm not getting the numbers. ⁓

Speaker 2 (15:57)
because

most people are not marketers. And what they're trying to do at times is stepping into those shoes and they end up burning themselves out or even just overwhelming themselves for no reason. It's just kind of like finding a balance between, okay, what things I need to do, how much do I need to be in the planning process, how much focus do I need to give to the market.

Speaker 1 (16:00)
No.

Yeah

Speaker 2 (16:22)
if you agree with that, but like, it's a tiny bit of a balance. Because people end up, people think that they have to subconsciously, they might not be accepting it, but subconsciously the message is I need to be a marketer also. Or a logistics person.

Speaker 1 (16:26)
Yeah.

Yeah

Yeah.

Yeah, look, I think what I find and I talk to hundreds of people every year and do sessions with them. And I think there's two or three key things. One is your own self-doubt. And if I put out this retreat, why will people even come that I call your monkey voice in your head and that confidence in self, that is the main thing. And knowing how to structure

social media so you get to your final goal and you know like you said most people don't have marketing backgrounds and people that do have marketing backgrounds look at things a little bit differently yeah and maybe not always. How you market a course is not how you market a retreat. So yeah so being able to find that balance but also share from the soul and the heart.

Speaker 2 (17:31)
Sorry.

Speaker 1 (17:41)
Like if you're just running a retreat to make $80,000 per retreat, it's not the soul of what you're doing, like why are you doing it? What is it you want to put across to the world? And I'm like, you have to get to the soul of it because people are not going to buy.

people, some people, but you know most people are not going to buy from sharing a retreat on social media when they can't feel who you are.

Speaker 2 (18:14)
And it's also like sometimes we get caught up in ⁓ what's called break even and I need that one more person to buy the numbers. ⁓ But that's, know, sometimes you lose the essence of who you actually need in that space. Who actually needs this.

Speaker 1 (18:24)
Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah,

yeah.

Speaker 2 (18:41)
and

we get caught up in, I need that one last spot.

Speaker 1 (18:46)
We do and you and I were talking about that the other week and what I find is there are some retreat coaches out there and look everybody has a different method but there are many that are out there that about no you have to make money you have to you know

this huge profit and the reality is not everybody in their first retreats make it makes a huge profit you know that they exactly need to go okay what is my actual point of okay I feel okay okay with this and often the reality is people will lose money in their first few retreats and go okay

I'm $500 down, can I afford that? Or, you know, different retreats, I'm $5,000 down, but is that okay in my business? Because then you get the proof concept. And you get the photos and the testimonials. And you see...

Speaker 2 (19:46)
So much more than

I.

Speaker 1 (19:49)
I agree and you know, not every coach will agree with me and I've run retreats that don't break even, you know, particularly this uphill climb since pre-COVID has been like, okay, what can I afford to make this retreat a reality? know, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (20:11)
Yeah.

We all

face that question, like do we really want to do it? And if we really want to do it, then we have to. We have to. We are going to. We have to, but we are going to do it. We respect it. And so, just keeping, although I love money, loves it. Just keeping ⁓ money aside for some time and thinking, okay, who am I inviting or attracting in the street dream space?

Speaker 1 (20:23)
Yeah. ⁓

Thank you.

Speaker 2 (20:43)
And then, so I am a firm believer of the fact that money is at the root of creation. If you're creating something, it's a resource, it's just gonna come. And so many people get caught up in that, in that cycle of, no one comes, how am gonna pay all this to the venue, and how am gonna cover all these costs, et cetera. Okay, so what would be...

Speaker 1 (20:52)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Speaker 2 (21:12)
Like we're talking about the advice, in this conversation we're anyway giving advice to the people. What's the road for success looks like? ⁓ When it comes to a journey of a retreat year, like if the starting point is a little bit of struggle or maybe overwhelm, or the fact that the first week might not even break even, what do the journey looks like to success?

Speaker 1 (21:18)
Yes.

⁓

Speaker 2 (21:40)
So if your first one is not even great, not even a great human, but since the second one, like not exactly second human.

Speaker 1 (21:42)
Yeah.

Yeah,

yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,

Speaker 2 (22:08)
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (22:10)
I think my

advice for people would be that it is an up and down journey. know, I, it's funny we were talking before about money, you know, I've had to do a lot of work on my money stories and you know, a lot of work around what does money mean for me. And as soon as I've let go of those money stories, it's a hundred percent change. And you know, in my generation,

Speaker 2 (22:30)
Bye.

Speaker 1 (22:37)
I'm 53, same old generation, I don't feel that old. But we didn't talk about money. I didn't even know what a money story was. I didn't know where mine came from at all.

Speaker 2 (22:52)
new concept.

Speaker 1 (22:53)
Yes, so

new. When you know, I look back at that concept ⁓ and I was involved in a workshop we had Amy Lopron, the good nurse, who she was a Netflix movie. She helped catch a serial killer in the US. Look it up. Amy Lopron, the good nurse. She did a timeline therapy workshop at UGWA in 2023.

and it was about, for me it was about that money and that real, I always thought that my money stories came from my aunt working in corporate and she didn't have a family or kids and that she worked in corporate and so she had a lot of money. Then I realized that's not where my money story came from, it came from the fact that my dad

Speaker 2 (23:51)
Thanks.

Speaker 1 (23:52)
Such a

hard worker and he's Austrian and my parents spent I don't know how many years about five years delivering pamphlets in the late 70s who afford to go to Austria with the four of us in 1980 and it cost thousands and thousands of dollars and airfares were super expensive because people didn't just fly all over the world

Speaker 2 (24:04)
to

Speaker 1 (24:20)
And for me, realising that money, that money story of mine was that money just comes from hard work. And if you don't work yourself to the bone, then you won't have money. And that realisation that that's not true. So for me, that realisation and then the work that I've done post that workshop around

my money stories, how I feel when I get a bill coming in or an account and I go, like, how am I going to pay that? Like this, like realization that I go, okay, I am actually very good at calling in money when I need it. That I can go, okay, you know, let me work out where that money is going to come from. And then I can solve these problems. And I think.

that money stuff gets so caught up in our self-confidence and our, ⁓ my retreat didn't quite break even or I only made a couple thousand dollars, it wasn't worthwhile. Without looking at that other side of look at the lives that my staff, my gifts have affected and transpired onto others.

Speaker 2 (25:36)
Yeah, so true. Lovely. And also, I think that's a strong one. And so many people have that many beliefs that it only comes from hard work. But again, if you look at the flip side, you there are so many people who are working hard, but they don't make it. And you only got 24 hours in a day. And I love it.

Speaker 1 (25:56)
Yeah, yeah.

make

a movie.

Speaker 2 (26:06)
going lesser and lesser but I still love it yeah so going back to the question I don't know if you want to add something to that money story like okay let me ask you what are you what are the three things that you've heard from people when it comes to money or like money

Speaker 1 (26:09)
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (26:24)
So one, I get it that it comes from hard work and they're not putting in so many hours, they probably might not be able to get as many people. But, or if you want to just rephrase it, what are the other two look like?

Speaker 1 (26:25)
Thank

people won't pay that or people can't afford that. That's kind of, that would be the biggest thing that I hear when people are putting out, particularly their retreats, people are not going to pay that to come to my retreat. And that's ⁓ a them problem, a, not a guest problem.

Speaker 2 (27:04)
them.

Speaker 1 (27:06)
Because I

know the majority people that sign up to my retreats, would say 70 % pay in full, 30 % pay on payment plans. So clearly people can afford it. And if you're targeting to the right market, then they can afford exactly what you're putting out there. Yeah, did that answer that?

Speaker 2 (27:28)
Yeah, of course. If I look at it, I struggled with it for the longest time, let's say. And then I started looking at how do I spend and do I feel comfortable spending $15,000, $1,500, $2,000? And I'm like, yeah, if I can do it and I'm coming from carrying this baggage of struggle.

Speaker 1 (27:45)
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (27:52)
But then there are people out there who need it and want it and they can pay. And we're living in this time where people do have affordability. Affordability is not at all an issue.

Speaker 1 (28:00)
Mmm.

Yeah.

yeah, social media tells us that it is. It is, yeah. And people can't afford it, but it's not true. I mean, yes, people are tightening their belts and if you don't have as much disposable income or no disposable income, then a hundred percent people are worried about that. But there's so many other people that do have that income.

Speaker 2 (28:32)
And people, the saving patterns have also evolved. Like people do save for retreats or they do save for self-care, which wasn't the case.

Speaker 1 (28:40)
Yeah, yeah

Speaker 2 (28:46)
I wanted to say

for maybe once in a while on vacation.

house or car. But now people are saying for self care. You know, just my me time. That's a good change and that also sends a signal that yes, people do want to and invest. What does the third one look like?

Speaker 1 (29:01)
Yeah, yeah ⁓

Speaker 2 (29:15)
So we have hard work and we have like self out. ⁓

Speaker 1 (29:17)
.

I would say the third one.

And it probably comes into that self-doubt. Like what I'm putting out there is not valuable enough. And they're all kind of intertwined and interconnected. But they're kind of the main things I talk about. You know, and I probably, you know, have calls and chat with people on messenger, maybe 10 or 15 women a week. And...

I really hear those same things a lot and that and especially the people that are moving often moving from maybe a corporate role or another role into a role of running your own business and they haven't yet realized what that entails and they are like this is a lot.

feeling overwhelmed and I don't know where to start. So yeah, they're probably the three intertwined things that I hear all the time.

Speaker 2 (30:39)
And I'm looking for my coach that there's an employee mindset and a CEO mindset. Yes. When you say that, that just fits perfectly there. That when you're an employee, you know that there's going to be a paycheck at the end of the month. When you're a CEO, you don't know it. You have to believe in the idea.

Speaker 1 (30:43)
excited.

Yeah.

Yeah,

yeah you do you have to believe in them

Speaker 2 (31:01)
Yeah

Speaker 1 (31:05)
Yeah. Yeah.

And celebrating when someone does pay you for something, you know, celebrating those retreat signups, celebrating those, you know, being invited to speak at a conference or being, you know, you know, someone signing up for your $47 offering, know, celebrating that each one. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (31:29)
Even if it's like a nine dollar, like the Lewis.

Speaker 1 (31:32)
Yeah, I know. Like

I, I sell a couple of products, like retreat products. And you know, when someone buys my $27 product, like I still feel that same like, like I hope that never leaves.

Speaker 2 (31:49)
I see it as like a lot of trust that someone is putting in you because I can go out and If I search for a retreat leader program, let's there are thousand I am I only choosing you? Why am I only joining your program? That's a lot

Speaker 1 (31:59)
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (32:08)
Okay, so going back to the question like how does the journey look like? Do you want to maybe like share something like when does the overhang ease a little bit? I know it's different.

Speaker 1 (32:21)
my own business I don't know whatever does I think when you

Speaker 2 (32:28)
Is that even like a correct question? Do people even need to expect that?

Speaker 1 (32:33)
Look,

I think people do need to expect overwhelm. They do need to expect that there will be moments when they're like, why am I working for myself? This is crazy. But I think that celebrating the wins and knowing that when you started to where you are now, you know, I look back at when I...

started particularly like even though I've been running retreats for a long time you know 10 years ago when I stepped into this full time I'd worked out I couldn't go back to social work I had spent a year building the business and then I was 10 years last November and

It takes time. And you know, write down your successes, have a book that you just write down someone paid $7. I got a retreat booking, I had a great conversation with someone today. Keep track of that so you can look back and go.

Wow, what an amazing one month, three months, six months, 12 months I've because, and I say it all the time, retreats change lives, they just do. And even if you're not running retreats and you're watching this, even by doing what you do in your business, it changes people. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (33:54)
It's doomed.

It sure transformed my life. My retreat is the reason why how I find how I found my partner. That's the best thing.

Speaker 1 (34:12)
Yeah nice, that's so cute.

Yeah so were you on a retreat and he was on a retreat?

Speaker 2 (34:20)
Yeah, that's so cute.

And we didn't meet for the three days. It was like a personal development summit. But we didn't meet for those three days. After the three days, know, somebody had lunch and then he came along with his group of friends and then we saw each other. It was like a casual conversation. Yeah. And then we started exchanging messages.

Speaker 1 (34:30)
Yeah.

That's so cute. Yeah, nice.

Speaker 2 (34:49)
So

they sure impact your life.

Speaker 1 (34:52)
They do. I see, you know, my main retreat of course is the ultimate girls week away or agwa as we call it. You know, I've seen lots of women come to my retreats by themselves and they're often lonely and disconnected and want to find something more.

and they might not know that they're lonely and disconnected, but suddenly they've got new friends. And there's two women in particular came to Fiji and were from different parts of the US. And I can't remember if they were sharing a room or they were just hanging out in the same group, because we had almost 200 women there. And their friendship has formed because of that. And they're now like, they travel cross country,

catch up on zoom they just those friendships and it's as you know it's a friendship that doesn't diminish with time so we could be at a retreat here and not see each other for 20 years and that feeling is still the same because of that shared intense experience oh I give myself goosebumps

Speaker 2 (36:08)
I totally agree. It's amazing. and also going back to the loneliness, like so many people, like you said, don't know they're lonely or... And it's at the end of the retreat that they realize, my God, I was so lonely. Like, you know, they point out the exact...

Speaker 1 (36:20)
Goodbye.

Yeah

Really?

Speaker 2 (36:33)
disconnected

but if you ask them on the first day how do you feel they probably won't be able to give you or label you. I just feel like I want more joy you know they would say things like that but at the end they can exactly point out I was lonely.

Speaker 1 (36:41)
Yeah, yeah, yeah

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And women like, once you get past school, where do women make friends? Mother's club, Sports clubs or work? And you know, I was the mum that I was working, but I didn't really go to a parents group. Like I went once and I didn't like the women. So that was my choice, but.

Speaker 2 (37:05)
I love you.

Speaker 1 (37:21)
I didn't have, like I made my friends through work and then I stopped working. And this is another thing people don't talk about much is that when you do step away from work, a lot of friends will drop off.

Speaker 2 (37:37)
And you

Speaker 1 (37:38)
you still

do have connections and friends and social media enhances that but it's for me it was a period of mourning and grieving I was creating this amazing thing but yet I I solo

Speaker 2 (37:57)
What's up?

Speaker 1 (38:00)
who were my people and my friends, which was only a small group would say, ⁓ how's business going? And you start to tell them and their eyes would glaze over because they were never interested in going on a retreat, but also they didn't understand business. And yeah, and you your family and friends should be your biggest supporter and yet often they're not.

It's whole other podcast. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (38:32)
some conversation for sure

and also can you repeat that last thing I I lost I was gonna make a point but I forgot

Speaker 1 (38:42)
that your family and friends should be your biggest supporter.

Speaker 2 (38:47)
But also,

when you lose friends, or when you're switching your industry or nature or whatever, you lose people. And that is a phase. It's also like for me, when it happened with me, I gave myself all the time to reflect to what do I need to do. It was a self-discovery. But I want to ask you, was this also a reason why you gave?

Speaker 1 (39:06)
Yeah.

Yeah

Speaker 2 (39:16)
all yourself to retreat.

Speaker 1 (39:20)
No, I don't think it was. I think I knew that that was my path. I knew that I was here to do something different and to really stir up the retreat industry in a way.

Speaker 2 (39:26)
Thank

Speaker 1 (39:40)
So I think that would have happened regardless. I think that finding my space and finding the people I belonged with, it's like that grieving process of anger and sadness and disbelief and all of those things.

I got to the point where I just went, okay, this is how it is. And let me look for those people that I'm meant to be with. Let me make new connections. Let me make new friends. And I think of my network now.

And really there is, other than family, there's three, four, five, six, seven, eight, eight people that are my friends, like close friends from outside my work.

Speaker 2 (40:34)
pre-am for

him.

Speaker 1 (40:35)
Yeah, yes,

yes, we call them tick-tock friends so not tick-tock tick-tack friends So those people that you can message when you're having a stressful moment But those people that I know I can

then most of the people I'm connected with now are retreat people and people that I've made connections with over my business journey. And I had a, not an incident, I had a...

an experience where last year, year before, was not long ago, where one of my UGWA team came from Wollongong and she came down to Melbourne and she did a healing and a retreat and she did some other things around the state and she said to me, this is because of you.

makes me teary when I think about it she said these contacts that I have that are friends now are because of you and your vision with the ultimate girls week away and I'm like ⁓ because we forget that stuff that's the stuff we don't celebrate those connections that people make at retreats because of what you've done yeah

Speaker 2 (41:58)
It's

the small things that are really the reason why we do it. We stop enjoying it.

Speaker 1 (42:06)
Yeah.

Yeah, yeah, we do. Because life is serious when you're working a business. We forget that fun dynamic. You know, I got on the plane yesterday. I'm going to one of my friend Michelle's retreats tomorrow. And I got on the plane and I was so stressed. Just yesterday? Yeah, yesterday. So stressed about all these things, because I'm away for a month now. But all these external business things that I felt like.

was juggling and I actually got on the plane and I think I had some sort of...

almost like, well yeah, I know it was because I started, you know when you're sick and you shiver? I started shivering, I'm always hot on a plane, I've always got my fan out and I was like, ⁓ what's going on? like, I knew I wasn't sick, sick and I was like, what's going on? But I think it was that, it was that stress release of.

Speaker 2 (43:11)
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (43:12)
You

know you've got it all under control and if you have to do things while you're away, you can do them. But that belief that everything would fall into place was strong after that. Like it's a five hour flight. So those couple hours where I'm like, am I gonna log the end of the flight? It was a lot to process. And yeah, we forget that it can be fun.

Speaker 2 (43:35)
you

Speaker 1 (43:39)
that it should be fun, that we should celebrate everything.

Speaker 2 (43:43)
highlight

of this conversation. coming back to Ogwai, you know the one thing that kind of brought me to Ogwai and you and your space that you've created for us coaches. ⁓

is the joy that people experience. If I were to say one word that what a go means to you, it's joy. Really see the joy that people experience. ⁓ The rate plan is going to be my first one. But I know for sure that.

Speaker 1 (44:12)
Thank

Cheers.

you

Yeah. Cause you know those, laughing that you do with girlfriends. Yeah. Occasionally with your partner or husband or family members. But when you're with your friends and it's that deep laugh that happens a lot. I love.

Speaker 2 (44:49)
Those who know can only know what you're saying but those who have experienced it know what you're saying. It really just comes from true authentic you. Like non-judgmental. You know that the other person is not going to judge you. know for example the picture that you shared the other day of Chloe?

Speaker 1 (45:03)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Alright,

in the pool with the coconut.

Speaker 2 (45:16)
That's a good thing to do, but you can only do it with your friends.

Speaker 1 (45:20)
Yeah, yeah. If you're at a resort with your husband or partner and you're like, I'm just going to get in the pool with my coconut. Can you take a photo and be like.

Speaker 2 (45:29)
What? Yeah, it's like a picture. It's a picture shot. Those are the things that happen in a picture. And let's say a place where you find friends. You just forget that. You kind of like, there's a... You let go of the mask. And there's, let's say, mask of profanity.

Speaker 1 (45:31)
It's just a big... Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Definitely. ⁓

Yeah,

yeah, and you don't have to be anyone, or you don't have to think about what am I cooking for dinner? I need to do shopping, I need to pay these bills, I need to run people here or there, like you're not a mother or daughter or wife or partner or...

Speaker 2 (45:59)
you

Speaker 1 (46:14)
any of those employee you're there and you're just you. And I think that's the key thing for lot of women is that that just you.

Speaker 2 (46:26)
And the other side of it is what's happening behind the scenes. How are you ⁓ coping up this problem in the right way? But how does your seven, three to four, I think, guess for three to four days? Like how does your seven days look like?

Speaker 1 (46:42)
Seven days.

When

I'm at UGWA? goodness. Well I'm running the show so it can be, of course there's moments of stress and you know I think for me the hotel that you're working with is super, super important. It looks like I'm usually on the ground a week before. I get there a week before so I know everything's ready.

Speaker 2 (47:02)
or

Speaker 1 (47:16)
the bags are done. I know that the restaurants are organized, that the excursion days are all happening, that the venue that we've got knows exactly what's happening. that prep time is vital, whether it's a seven day retreat, a weekend, being able to arrive at least a day before is key to feeling organized, I think, and lots of other retreats.

facilitators feel the same. It's busy. I'm not there for a holiday.

Speaker 2 (47:51)
Yeah,

yeah. Bye.

Speaker 1 (47:53)
I get to soak up the environment of people that are. And I get to see that magic. I get to see the conversations. I get to see the excitement when people arrive and step out of the transfer vehicle or the ferry or wherever we are. And to feel that magic of, I'm here, I can relax. But yeah, my journey is making sure everything runs smoothly.

then on the, so everyone for UGWA leaves on the Saturday, including the team. We have a final closing ceremony on the Friday night, but we, with the team, we finish on the Saturday. And I think for me, it's afterwards.

Speaker 2 (48:33)
closing

Speaker 1 (48:44)
that I can really savor that journey and that experience because it's a big retreat. When I'm running my smaller retreats, I'll be in Cambodia in...

in June with there'll probably be about eight women. I'm running it with my friend Minyon. You know, that's different because you are able to lie by the pool with people. And you are able to have those conversations or sit up talking until midnight. You know, those, it's much more intimate. And that, that I, you know,

Speaker 2 (49:11)
you

Speaker 1 (49:25)
My parents remember when I first started running the leadership summits and my dad says all the time, you used to come home so exhausted. I'm like, yeah, I did. don't experience that as much now. Of course I'm tired because I've been working for however long.

Speaker 2 (49:48)
but I.

Speaker 1 (49:48)
I

think what people don't realise is they will be exhausted after a retreat and that's okay. those post-partum, you do, you need that downtime and you need to plan at least a couple of days to just breathe and enjoy what you've created.

Speaker 2 (49:57)
Me down time.

Speaker 1 (50:12)
It's really nice but yeah, it's, well pity as you're on for 24-7 if something's going wrong at night, not that things normally do, but you know, yours is the door that people will knock on at 3am. ⁓ Even for bug spray. That's a whole lot of color.

Speaker 2 (50:33)
Bye! ⁓

Speaker 1 (50:37)
You would be so... I

can't get into the internet mate, go to the front desk, I'm not gonna know. But you know, the way I view it and the way I talk about it is you're holding that container, that space for your retreat guests for the time that you're together. Whether it's a one day retreat, that's a whole other conversation, that's a workshop.

Speaker 2 (51:05)
How do people even host one day retreats? yeah, it's very strange. I think knowing these questions like come up on

Speaker 1 (51:09)
I don't know.

Yeah, yeah. I'm running this retreat and it's one day and I'm like, that's not a retreat.

Speaker 2 (51:22)
For me, think in my personal experience, everybody, people can contradict it, but it takes time for people to even get into the retreat energy. Like be vulnerable and let go and surrender to what's coming for them. And one day...

Speaker 1 (51:34)
Yes.

No,

it's a good taster for what they can experience. ⁓ Lots of conversations. get a little bit heated about those things and people are like, I'm running a one day retreat. I'm like, it's not a retreat.

Speaker 2 (51:56)
Sometimes I just, you know, call me whatever but like for just to make people at least jump and do it. If you want to do it, just try. But then it's not a retreat. You know, you'll know after some time you'll be like, no, it's not like that. You'll learn your own way.

Speaker 1 (52:04)
Yeah, I 100 % agree with you.

Yeah, ⁓

Speaker 2 (52:24)
What in your experience is the biggest difference between hosting a 7 day summit like UGWA and a small 8 day one day.

Speaker 1 (52:35)
people retreat. I think there's

always organizing. Right? So doesn't matter what size, you've always got to get that right. I think, no, I think I know that, you know, you can breathe a bit more on your smaller numbers. You can.

Speaker 2 (52:47)
you

Speaker 1 (52:55)
program things like let's sit by the pool for three hours or let's you know do this or do that you know whereas with a bigger event people expect a lot more they expect that there's a set program they expect that there's okay from three o'clock to five o'clock there's free time like there's those things

And I think as a, I say I think a lot. When I say I think, I know. I know the answers to this. Yeah, yeah. But I know having done this will be my first, second, third, fourth, I've got to count on my fingers.

Speaker 2 (53:26)
Thank

Speaker 1 (53:38)
I know that women expect to come, feel connected, feel safe, experience different things and walk away with a fresh perspective. Yeah, like I know that.

Yeah, yeah, definitely for both. The smaller retreats, 100 % people still expect to feel those things. But I see, and that's the container I feel too, is that this is what women expect when they sign up for the Ultimate Girls Week away. These are the things that they know they're gonna get. So think again.

Speaker 2 (54:29)
I

know,

Speaker 1 (54:31)
that

best practice retreats is a huge, in making sure that your guests get exactly what they've been told they'll get at your retreat. Because so often I have people, particularly women, because that's the arena I work in.

messages every week saying I went to this retreat they promised this but we didn't get it and look I've done it before I've fallen short at times and you know mostly it's pretty rectifiable like my gosh I'm so sorry you know how can we make this work but so often there's retreat facilitators and organizers that offer things

Speaker 2 (55:05)
I

Speaker 1 (55:25)
that are not delivered. So let's just say an example is, okay, so one woman, part of her retreat was hot air ballooning. The weather was so bad, they couldn't do it. And my understanding is she got a refund, but then did not pass that on to the guests, which didn't go down very.

Speaker 2 (55:49)
Yeah.

at all. I think in such cases, you've got to make it up to people. You've got to.

Speaker 1 (56:01)
Yeah, like, ⁓ okay, we haven't done that. You know, we know balloon rides are not cheap. You know, what can we do instead? Or can we do this and I refund this bit and that sort of thing. I think communicating that with your guests is the key role not to get backlash or people angry.

I've had one retreat facilitator message me because there was a whole lot of mess went on with a facilitator that she was bringing in for her retreat. And there was one retreat guest who was like, no, I'm not coming. And it was within the refund period. She's like, no, I'm not coming. I know I don't want to be moved to a different retreat. I don't care if you're bringing in a different facilitator. just want a refund.

And that organiser was like, what do I do? said, sometimes you just need to refund. As painful as that can be, putting money out of your pocket, into the guest property. Sometimes you just need to. And while you might have really strict refund policies, sometimes you need to make a value and judgment call.

Speaker 2 (57:24)
At end

of the day, it's you. You want to make sure that there's a certain experience that you deliver. Even if somebody's not, even if somebody's asking for a refund, in my thinking, that's also an experience that you're creating for that person. How does that person go about communicating with you? ⁓

Speaker 1 (57:31)
Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (57:50)
sharing some a little bit of this thing kind of like thinking what's the funniest ⁓

Speaker 1 (57:55)
⁓

I've got a few great stories. Yeah, so when I was organising Fiji a couple weeks before I was getting people's passport details and travel flights and that so I could organise what transfer ferries they were on. And I was sending out emails and then as people would

Speaker 2 (58:01)
I have no funny stories now.

on each day.

Speaker 1 (58:23)
sending their information, I would take them off the email list and so then I just had there was one woman coming from the US and I said I really need your arrival details and she said I don't know why you need that I'm driving and I'm like what? She's like yeah I don't know why you need my passport details I won't even need it I'm like what?

Speaker 2 (58:32)
you

Yeah.

Speaker 1 (58:54)
What it got down to was...

She said... But Fiji is in Florida. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm like, what? She didn't have a passport. So she couldn't come. She bought her flight. Like what? What? That's... It still stuns me to this day.

Speaker 2 (59:05)
⁓ my god

you

Speaker 1 (59:29)
I think probably that's the funniest story I've got.

Speaker 2 (59:32)
like did you realize that it's the PGPG?

Speaker 1 (59:41)
she kind of cut me off and didn't message me after that. Especially when I said, well, there's no refund. We're like three weeks out. Everything's paid for. But the upside was I could then gift her space to someone, which is I always love doing. So that was probably my funniest story. Another story was I was running for a while. I was running like a tour through Europe.

go to great places, relax, we'd finish with a cruise, it was just, it was fantastic. And I had, I was in a souvenir shop in Paris, Australian women, and the whole group ended up sucked into this conversation. One of them said, oh, I can't buy a calendar. I'm like...

And she said, because it'll be a different day in Australia.

Speaker 2 (1:00:38)
I know right? What?

Speaker 1 (1:00:40)
I'm black.

She's like, yeah, it'll be a different day. And I'm like, we're in the same time continuum. We're just different time zones. when it's, you know, there's a 13th of August here, there's a 13th of August in Australia. she's like.

And then the others were chiming in. I'm like, what? Are you all f***ing seriously?

Speaker 2 (1:01:14)
The question is really giving me a strong doubt right now. Does that mean that you're saying that on 30 August it's a Saturday? It's still a Saturday in Europe, right?

Speaker 1 (1:01:29)
Australia. It's not

like a whole other day. know. And she messaged me I reckon I don't know six months later and she's like ⁓ my god. Again. I was thinking of that and I cannot believe I said something so stupid. ⁓

Speaker 2 (1:01:35)
I was just lying.

This is also actually

a good thing that it brings, it takes you down to your being the child that you are. It's... without even thinking. You sometimes just say something and then you feel pride in it. This could make sense. Yeah, but when you go back to your regular life, then you realize, that's... so stupid, now I'm back to the mask.

Speaker 1 (1:02:00)
Yes!

Yeah, makes sense in Paris.

That was so stupid.

Yeah, probably the biggest compliment I've gotten on a retreat was in Fiji and there was again an American woman who

had booked for a single room and then at the last minute she had a friend come so they shared so I owed her a refund and I'm like are you okay if we sort that out in Fiji and she's like yeah of course and I ran into her one afternoon I'm like let's get that sorted out come now she said no keep that as a tip I know she was like this has far exceeded my expectations

that what I've got even, it was like day two or three, and I'm like, ⁓ that's a huge compliment. And it was, I mean, it wasn't a huge amount, but it wasn't a little amount either. It was a few hundred dollars. And I'm like, ⁓ I know. It was like, that's amazing. Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (1:03:15)
Okay, I think we can keep

going

Speaker 1 (1:03:22)
think we can talk forever. ⁓

But people might be bored and running this on double speed.

Speaker 2 (1:03:28)
I think we

are already one hour into the- I would still like, would love to learn more about UGWA upcoming event in right now and what do you want to share with people like what they should look forward to and also like inviting them.

Speaker 1 (1:03:31)
Thanks.

Yeah, so yeah, I love the girls wake up where's my baby. So I love talking about her. So it's the second to the ninth of August this year 2025. We're advising everybody to arrive on the first to say that you're there ready for the excitement of the day. It's seven days of doing as much or as little as you like. So that's seven days of

workshops and speakers and free time and massages and if you've been to Hoi An you know that one of the things there is the tailors and having clothing made so I've got a tailor's coming to the

hotel, very dear friend of mine and her sister's ⁓ tailor shop and everyone gets $200 Australian dollars to have made whatever you need to make or want to make. We're also going to have shoes and handbags and all of those things as well. But for me, UGWA is about connection and that making new friends and being able to experience a lot of the things that we've been taught.

talking about today. But that ability to say yes to something for you is what UGWA is all about. And it's going to be amazing. are over half full, which is great. And they're still five months out, which is fantastic as a retreat facilitator Soul today. That makes my heart very happy. We're at almost 40 people, which is great. So we're looking at 60

Speaker 2 (1:05:20)
Thank

Speaker 1 (1:05:33)
60 to 70 years max. And while for a lot of you, you're like, that feels, yeah. feels, But while a lot of people are like, my gosh, that's so big. You know, I'll get lost. I don't want to be around that many people. I've found in the past, and we have a lot of neurodivergent women come who are... ⁓

really don't like lots of people. Don't like people sometimes. And I'm thinking of one in particular, and I'll tell her I talked about that. You know, being in a bigger group means that there's more space to be yourself.

Speaker 2 (1:06:10)
you

Speaker 1 (1:06:16)
And if you want to go and sleep for the afternoon or lie by the pool or go and have a massage, it's okay. Like it's okay to pick and choose what you want, which is perfect for the ultimate girls' week away. So what I say is don't miss out. I feel like we're going to be full by the end of April, which makes me again, makes my heart full.

So just say yes, work out how it works. People pay in full, they pay in monthly instalments, all of that sort of thing. And the bonus of this is it's always a single room. Because we know women after a certain age like a single room, but if you're traveling with your bestie or your sister or whoever, you can share a room. So the price is $3,879.

and Australian. So for the Americans and everywhere else in the world, it's a bargain. And it includes, jump on the website, ultimategirlsweakaway.com and check it out. Everything on there is what's included. I can't wait. I'm so excited.

Speaker 2 (1:07:30)
Me too, and thank you for giving me the opportunity to speak at the event and maybe host a workshop also.

Speaker 1 (1:07:39)
Yeah, it is exciting.

Yeah, I can't wait.

Speaker 2 (1:07:44)
Alright,

thank you so much for listening. Hope you liked it. It's a teeny bit of the conversation that we had that we could have with Lieseland her journey. a, how do I say it? Snippet. We're gonna do a whole series and she's gonna keep coming back without even asking.

Speaker 1 (1:08:01)
snippets. I'm sure we can do a whole series of...

Okay. ⁓

Speaker 2 (1:08:11)
All right,

hope you liked it. Do drop a comment down below and subscribe and let us know how you feel about this. Thank you. Bye.

Speaker 1 (1:08:19)
Thank

hours I'm sure