{ "version": "1.0.0", "segments": [ { "speaker": "Michael Georgiou", "startTime": "0.56", "endTime": "42.5", "body": "Hey, everyone. Welcome to Tales from the Pros, and this is Michael Georgiou, your host and cofounder of Imagine Ovation. My special guest with me here today is Fritz Lehmann, who is a business leader and currently the chief operating officer at Zenkos. Fritz brings 34 years of experience in all aspects of solutions, sales, delivery, and customer support from his time at SaaS, culminating from the role of executive vice president and chief customer officer prior to retiring from SAS in 2018. This is Tales From the Pros, where business leaders and influencers share their stories of inspiration, struggles, and successes." }, { "speaker": "Michael Georgiou", "startTime": "42.864998", "endTime": "55.53", "body": "And I'm your host, Michael Georgiou. Fritz, it's a real pleasure having you here today. I really appreciate it. Thank you so much." }, { "speaker": "Fritz Lehman", "startTime": "56.149998", "endTime": "58.329998", "body": "Oh, you're welcome. I appreciate you putting me on." }, { "speaker": "Michael Georgiou", "startTime": "59.225002", "endTime": "69.7", "body": "Absolutely. So, Fritz, just to kind of, get the ball rolling, can you give us a little experience, a little background, on your story, and and how you got to where you are today as a business leader?" }, { "speaker": "Fritz Lehman", "startTime": "69.84", "endTime": "80.83501", "body": "Yeah. Absolutely. I, graduated from the University of Oklahoma, spent some time, I was a swimmer at the University of Oklahoma 4 years. And, Wow. Yeah." }, { "speaker": "Fritz Lehman", "startTime": "80.83501", "endTime": "108.075", "body": "Well, yeah. Yeah. It's it's a it's a lot of work, but, you know, when I when I was done, I got a degree in education, then I spent some time coaching at the university and, started to program, started to take some programming classes while I was there and realized that it was something I like to do. Now, as it you know, if I were to go into my life history, as it turns out, my mother, who has a PhD in statistics, was the 24th employee at SAS Institute. So, I was kinda lamenting one day and said, hey, mom." }, { "speaker": "Fritz Lehman", "startTime": "108.075", "endTime": "117.880005", "body": "I just I just don't know that I wanna finish up, you with another degree. And she said, hey. Why don't you move out to North Carolina? We'll we'll see if this SAS thing works out for you. So I interviewed." }, { "speaker": "Fritz Lehman", "startTime": "118.82", "endTime": "135.47", "body": "It turns out they were in a very, you know, very large growth time, and, they hired me into tech support. So I got my first job in the industry in tech support. I answered the phones 4 hours a day and took care of SaaS customers. So I it was my first support role. I went from there, and I decided I wanted to teach because I have a degree in education." }, { "speaker": "Fritz Lehman", "startTime": "135.47", "endTime": "157.18", "body": "So I went over to the education division at SaaS and taught for a long time. You know, then then I I I tend to get itchy every 3 or 4 years. I wanted to go ahead and, see if I could actually program for a living. So I got into r and d, got into consulting, got back into r and d. Eventually, I moved up through the management chain, and I ran, consulting in the United States." }, { "speaker": "Fritz Lehman", "startTime": "157.725", "endTime": "186.66", "body": "All the all the stars started to align. The next thing I know, I'm running consulting, for SAS all over the for global. Everybody in the world did consulting, and then I also got tech support, global, education, global, publications and a customer loyalty. So, you know, perseverance got me into a spot where, you know, all of the all the jobs that I did that were customer support kinda rolled up into one big job where I was completely in charge of customer support at SaaS. And that's my life story." }, { "speaker": "Fritz Lehman", "startTime": "186.8", "endTime": "188.8", "body": "Right. Yeah." }, { "speaker": "Michael Georgiou", "startTime": "188.8", "endTime": "200.015", "body": "Great. So I I love how you mentioned perseverance. So it took a lot of grit of just a lot of fight to work up the the ladder in SaaS. Because SaaS is about how many how many employees does SaaS have? There's over 10,000." }, { "speaker": "Michael Georgiou", "startTime": "200.015", "endTime": "200.13501", "body": "Right?" }, { "speaker": "Fritz Lehman", "startTime": "200.255", "endTime": "201.475", "body": "1,000 and change. Yeah." }, { "speaker": "Michael Georgiou", "startTime": "201.615", "endTime": "202.115", "body": "15,000." }, { "speaker": "Fritz Lehman", "startTime": "202.335", "endTime": "202.735", "body": "Yeah." }, { "speaker": "Michael Georgiou", "startTime": "202.735", "endTime": "218.215", "body": "Okay. It's it's pretty cool. I I love how you mentioned, that you were in tech support because, you know, my my you know, the the guy who you met when we we've met previously face to face, and you met, Pete Branzo. He's my business partner at Imagination. He was at SaaS for, like, 6 years at tech support." }, { "speaker": "Michael Georgiou", "startTime": "218.215", "endTime": "230.83499", "body": "And then my brother, George, he's also currently at SaaS and tech support. So this is good for them to to listen to this interview, and especially with my brother trying to work his way up. And it's just, it's great insight and advice for him. So that's cool." }, { "speaker": "Fritz Lehman", "startTime": "230.83499", "endTime": "263.24", "body": "You know, if I had one thing to say about that, and, obviously, then your brother worked for me. He may not have known that, but he worked for me. But the one thing I'd say about, getting a job in tech support, and I said this, you know, shortly after I was there because I didn't totally appreciate it when I had the job, is tech support is probably the single best job for somebody to have when they're starting out in a company like SaaS. And I think you could apply it to almost any any company. Because, you know, at the end of the day, your job is to answer the phone and on the other end of the phone is typically a customer who is having a problem." }, { "speaker": "Fritz Lehman", "startTime": "263.625", "endTime": "289.615", "body": "So you have an opportunity then to, you know, to be the hero. Right? You you're gonna you you got somebody maybe who's got a deadline they can't make and and you're the one who's gonna help them, you know, maybe save their job for all you know. So, you know, every time you pick up the phone and somebody's at the other end of it, you have an opportunity to do something great for your company, but you also have opportunity to do something great for the individual on the other side. And you never know how big a deal it is for that individual on the other side." }, { "speaker": "Fritz Lehman", "startTime": "289.615", "endTime": "309.13998", "body": "And I've gotten calls, you know, from folks who say, you you know, you guys saved my job. You know, I had a deadline. I ran into a problem. I didn't know how to do it. And, you know, Jane or John or whoever was, you know, was on the support call, stayed on, made sure I got my answer, made sure, you know, that I was gonna be successful and literally saved my job." }, { "speaker": "Fritz Lehman", "startTime": "309.13998", "endTime": "315.24", "body": "So you never know, you know, when you're talking to somebody what's gonna happen. And I think that's an important thing to remember." }, { "speaker": "Michael Georgiou", "startTime": "316.35498", "endTime": "339.375", "body": "Yeah. It's so true, you know, because, you know, I I've talked to my brother, in the past in regards to his job, and he said, it's it's crazy how much you can make a difference. I think now he's in a different division in SaaS. But when he was there, for over 4 years, he was just saying that when you when when you you know, you're working hard and you under you have the skill set and you you have the experience and you understand the the SaaS product or wherever you're working," }, { "speaker": "Fritz Lehman", "startTime": "339.535", "endTime": "339.695", "body": "you" }, { "speaker": "Michael Georgiou", "startTime": "339.695", "endTime": "351.785", "body": "know, what whatever product or service that you're supporting, you can make a huge difference to on the other end. You know what I mean? And you could really potentially save save the life of that person in their company. Yeah. So it's pretty crazy." }, { "speaker": "Fritz Lehman", "startTime": "351.785", "endTime": "382.64", "body": "I mean, I could I could I could tell stories about it all day long, but I I used to give a speech about, you know, understanding the the the importance of doing the little things. And I'll just tell you a real quick story is, you know I mean, I retired a year ago, but I was standing in the lobby here at the conference and a gentleman walks up to me who said, hey, Fritz, and actually said mister Lehman, but, you know, hey, Fritz. You don't know who I am. And as it turns out, he works for me or worked for me in the Middle East someplace, and I recognize his name. But he was right." }, { "speaker": "Fritz Lehman", "startTime": "382.64", "endTime": "393.765", "body": "I really did know who he was. He said, but you remember giving a speech 2 years ago about doing the little things in life? Because the little things add up to be big things. And it's the little things that actually make a customer happy. And I said, sure." }, { "speaker": "Fritz Lehman", "startTime": "393.765", "endTime": "407.45502", "body": "I mean, I I remember you doing. And he said, I just wanted to let you know. Right? On that day, you changed the way I looked at things because I wasn't thinking about the little things. I was always swinging for the fence and trying to get a home run or, you know, something like that." }, { "speaker": "Fritz Lehman", "startTime": "407.595", "endTime": "459.775", "body": "And, but that goes back to the exact point we're making is when you're talking to people or you're in a support role, a management role, whatever it is, you you never know when you're going to say something or do something, whether it's big or small, that could have a direct impact on the life of that person that hears it. And sometimes you won't know it, but periodically, somebody will walk up and go, I just wanna thank you for what you did, said, you know, whatever it is. So, you know, from a leadership standpoint, and I know I'm probably getting off topic here a little bit, I think I think those in a in a customer support role or a management role, which really not all that different, you you should never underestimate that what you're saying, somebody's going to listen to. And it could have a profound impact on their life. And it and I gotta tell you, it is really, really cool when it happens and somebody comes up and says, do you remember when you said?" }, { "speaker": "Michael Georgiou", "startTime": "461.115", "endTime": "466.07", "body": "Sometimes it just takes it just it's just a a change in perspective, right, of where you're at." }, { "speaker": "Fritz Lehman", "startTime": "466.13", "endTime": "480.23502", "body": "Yeah. Exactly. That's exactly right. Yeah. But, you know, but if you also recognize if you recognize that, you when you're talking to people, it's important, you know, take it seriously, have respect for the people that are in front of you, good things typically happen." }, { "speaker": "Michael Georgiou", "startTime": "480.69", "endTime": "505.04", "body": "Yeah. That's that's great advice, advice, Fritz. And and I know now you're I know you mentioned before, that you retired from SAS about a year ago or a little over a year ago. So, you're no you're now at Xencos. So can you kind of tell us a little bit about what what Xencos does and and why, essentially, you chose to be a part of of the Zenkos team instead of, I I think you said you were gonna retire, but you instead Yeah." }, { "speaker": "Michael Georgiou", "startTime": "505.28", "endTime": "506.48", "body": "Chose chose that company." }, { "speaker": "Fritz Lehman", "startTime": "506.48", "endTime": "524.45", "body": "Yeah. Well, you know, I I kinda joke with people that really what happened I I thought I was gonna retire and, you know, sail off into the sunset. But what really happened is I just needed a vacation. I, you know, I had worked, you know, 7 days a week for a long, long time. So we're what I really ended up doing is taking a 2 month vacation." }, { "speaker": "Fritz Lehman", "startTime": "524.45", "endTime": "532.425", "body": "And after about 2 months, I kinda ran out of things to do. I rebuilt my mother's fence. I did you know, I fixed the toilets. I did all the things that you're supposed to do. Right?" }, { "speaker": "Fritz Lehman", "startTime": "532.485", "endTime": "546.815", "body": "So I did all that, then I kinda ran out of things to do. Now is that the the guys that own Zenkos are old friends of mine, Ben Zenik and, David David Sapthoff. They're they're very old friends of mine. I've known David for over 30 years. I think I've known Ben for over 20 years." }, { "speaker": "Fritz Lehman", "startTime": "546.815", "endTime": "559.27", "body": "So their company is a SaaS consulting company. And I'd when I in my previous role at SaaS, I used them all the time. Right? I if, you know, I had overflow. I needed, you know, I needed people with specific skills." }, { "speaker": "Fritz Lehman", "startTime": "559.27", "endTime": "574.49005", "body": "We'd call Zenkos because they're they're very, very good at what they do. So, you know, they called me and said, hey. You know, have you got any interest in, you know, getting, you know, getting back into work or coming in and working for us, my my initial response was, no. You know? Really, I'm I'm gonna retire." }, { "speaker": "Fritz Lehman", "startTime": "574.87", "endTime": "593.47003", "body": "But once I realized that, you know, my work life wasn't done then I used to say this to people all the time. They'd say, how do you know when you're gonna retire? And I'd say, when I'm done, and I'll know when I'm done. Well, I realized that I wasn't done, but I was done working for a big company. I wasn't interested in going back and, you know, having the responsibility of 4,000 employees around the world." }, { "speaker": "Fritz Lehman", "startTime": "593.47003", "endTime": "613.42", "body": "I just didn't wanna do that anymore. So they gave me an opportunity to come in and become the chief operating officer, which means I'm responsible for a lot of the day to day operations. And, you know, they they wanted somebody with experience who's gonna help them grow to be a bigger organization because that's not the experience they have. They wanna get bigger. They wanna grow." }, { "speaker": "Fritz Lehman", "startTime": "613.72", "endTime": "632.62", "body": "But they recognize that when that happens, management becomes a different thing entirely. So, you know, they said, why don't you come work here? If it doesn't work out, no harm done. We've been friends forever and and, you know, we we'll, you know, we'll agree to, to do something else. But and now, you know, I've said this to a 1000 people here at the SaaS conference." }, { "speaker": "Fritz Lehman", "startTime": "632.62", "endTime": "650.87", "body": "I'm happier than I've been in years. It's small. It gives me an opportunity to do things that I haven't done in years at a level that I haven't done them. And it gets and, again, I get to work directly with a bunch of people that I like, and I get to stay connected to the south world where, you know, frankly, for 34 years, I was there. They're my family." }, { "speaker": "Fritz Lehman", "startTime": "650.87", "endTime": "655.355", "body": "I grew up with them. So it lets me stay connected with that as well. So I get the best of all worlds." }, { "speaker": "Michael Georgiou", "startTime": "656.615", "endTime": "668.675", "body": "It's a it's a good fine balance. You're not a a large enterprise No. Corporation, but you're kind of not in a start up either. So it's something in the middle Yeah. And you feel and you feel like you you see the impact that you're making, the change that you're making in that company." }, { "speaker": "Fritz Lehman", "startTime": "668.915", "endTime": "672.615", "body": "Absolutely. And I can see it almost on a daily basis. Absolutely. Yeah." }, { "speaker": "Michael Georgiou", "startTime": "673.555", "endTime": "697.26", "body": "That's great. And and I know you mentioned, you know, SaaS as we all know, you know, SaaS Institute was, you know, they they have big data software analytics, and it seems Zenkos is around that, within that realm as well as well. Where do you feel, Fritz, that big data and analytics is headed in the US and even the global market? Do you see new trends? Kind of where do you where you feel it's headed or where do where is it currently?" }, { "speaker": "Fritz Lehman", "startTime": "697.64", "endTime": "714.86", "body": "That's actually that's a great question. You know, I'm standing here at the at the SAS conference where, you know, all day long, we're hearing about analytics and data. And and the, you know, the answer is actually, I think, pretty simple. Big data big data itself is kind of passe. Everybody's been talking about big data forever." }, { "speaker": "Fritz Lehman", "startTime": "715.58", "endTime": "736.235", "body": "So, you know, it it's not the problem that it used to be. Although big data is getting bigger with all the devices and Internet of things and all that stuff. But big data is getting bigger, but the capacity to hold it is is, increasing with it. But what you're hearing now from every corner of the earth is the concept of machine learning and artificial intelligence. And, you know, so Yep." }, { "speaker": "Fritz Lehman", "startTime": "736.435", "endTime": "757.265", "body": "You know, everybody is doing statistics now. You know, all the big companies say, we're an analytics company. We're an analytics company. Well, SAS was the analytics company before, you know, analytics was cool. So, but so so what you're hearing all, you know, these days is is machine learning artificial intelligence and the the I said this at a conference last year, the year before, somewhere along the line." }, { "speaker": "Fritz Lehman", "startTime": "757.265", "endTime": "778.77", "body": "Somebody asked me a similar question, and I said, you know, right now, everybody's playing with it. Right? Everybody's in a sandbox with with artificial intelligence. Everybody's messing around with it, trying to figure out what it can do, you know, where are we, you know, in in the grand scheme of things. And what I see now, and and I'm pretty sure about this and I've heard other people talk about it, is we're now beyond the sandbox phase." }, { "speaker": "Fritz Lehman", "startTime": "779.14996", "endTime": "792.525", "body": "Things have shaken out. Now it's time for the rubber to meet the road. All the people that have been talking about artificial intelligence is time to actually make it do something besides be on your phone. Right? Because you've got Siri or whatever on your phone." }, { "speaker": "Fritz Lehman", "startTime": "792.525", "endTime": "811.48505", "body": "It's you know, but we we need to get beyond that. That's not great artificial intelligence. That that that is what it is. So now I think, again, the rubbers hit the road. The people who've been talking about it have now got to put it into production in a big way, whether it's in health care, whether it's in, retail, whether it's in manufacturing." }, { "speaker": "Fritz Lehman", "startTime": "811.78", "endTime": "828.415", "body": "You know, now is the time for people to actually do what they say they can do. And we're starting to see it. We're starting to see more of it. So, you know, you can expect whether you recognize it or not, you can expect more artificial intelligence in almost everything you say and do in your everyday life. And you may not know it, but it's there." }, { "speaker": "Michael Georgiou", "startTime": "828.83", "endTime": "843.83", "body": "Yeah. And and, you know, it it's crazy you say that because there's so much, there there's all this hype, and I don't mean hype in a in a bad way. I mean, obviously, I mean, my company does AI. We love the AI and IoT, all these trending and emerging technologies. But the thing is is with with AI, you hear it." }, { "speaker": "Michael Georgiou", "startTime": "843.91003", "endTime": "857.805", "body": "Everyone just keeps talking about it. It's the new keyword, the new trending word right now. Right? Kind of like entrepreneur, like startups, like all these new keyword new new words that keep coming out. And and it it seems like with with big data, it's it's putting AI to life." }, { "speaker": "Michael Georgiou", "startTime": "857.805", "endTime": "861.07996", "body": "It's bringing it to life. It's visually. Yeah." }, { "speaker": "Fritz Lehman", "startTime": "861.07996", "endTime": "863.56", "body": "Yeah. It's time. Right? That's why I say it's time. Right?" }, { "speaker": "Fritz Lehman", "startTime": "863.56", "endTime": "891.065", "body": "We it's it's time we quit talking about it. It's time we quit playing with it. And it's time to actually let it start to help us. You know, the the idea about image scanning for doctors so that they can start to take a look at the, you know, 1,000 and millions of of scans of people's bodies and start to diagnose from the scans, the artificial intelligence, the recognition, the picture recognition. It's time to actually have that stuff become part of our everyday lives." }, { "speaker": "Fritz Lehman", "startTime": "892.08496", "endTime": "913.29", "body": "And again, you know, it's out there today. Most people may not see it. You know, there there are things out there today when you buy an airplane ticket. Now you may not recognize it, but when you buy that airplane ticket, something behind the scenes is processing all the big data and all the information, whatever, to make sure that the, you know, the ticket price that you pay is what they want you to pay. Now I'm picking I know." }, { "speaker": "Fritz Lehman", "startTime": "913.29", "endTime": "921.28503", "body": "That's not a criticism of the airlines. Right? Because, you know, auction sites do it. Actually, your your energy companies do it. It." }, { "speaker": "Fritz Lehman", "startTime": "921.365", "endTime": "950.07", "body": "Everybody's doing it, and they certainly do it every time you get on a browser and you've got an ad for something that they want you to go click on. And usually, that ad is there for a reason, and it's not because it's random. It's because they know what you want, and they're gonna put out there what you want based on all the data and your profile and all your habits. So, you know, it it's all out there. You know, a lot of people are afraid of it, you know, and they're afraid of they're afraid of it for, in my opinion, you know, some right reasons, some wrong reasons, but, you know, it's not going away." }, { "speaker": "Fritz Lehman", "startTime": "950.21", "endTime": "959.225", "body": "And that's the thing is is we need you know, it it is not going away. It's just gonna get bigger and it's gonna get smarter and it's gonna get better, and it's gonna and ultimately gonna help all of our lives. I believe that." }, { "speaker": "Michael Georgiou", "startTime": "960.005", "endTime": "983.22", "body": "Yeah. And and, you know, do you feel like with connecting AI with big day with with data and analytics in general, do you feel that AI is going to make data even more accurate? Like, because, you know, sometimes we'll we'll use a software, analytical software, and the data isn't isn't always it's never almost a 100% accurate. Do you think AI with that technology is gonna make things even more accurate? Or how do you think it'll affect it in that aspect?" }, { "speaker": "Fritz Lehman", "startTime": "983.22", "endTime": "1028.055", "body": "I I I saw a presentation yesterday of, a camera on the front of a train. And the camera on the front of train is basically recording the track, which watching the track. And it's got a trained model that's starting to recognize where the gravel on the track is starting to wear thin. And when the gravel that's around the rails and and the post that go across the rails, when that gravel starts to get thin, it it actually causes the, the tracks to wobble, which makes it, dangerous. So what's happening is is that, you know, it it's it's, the the model is starting to recognize when that's happening through, you know, through if we think about it, billions and billions and billions of frames of video." }, { "speaker": "Fritz Lehman", "startTime": "1028.055", "endTime": "1053.11", "body": "So is big is is artificial intelligent intelligence gonna make big data more accurate or make data more accurate? Yeah. I think it will, you know, based on what it gathers. But the other thing it's going to do is make data that maybe isn't as accurate better because it will be able to interpret data and understand when it's not as accurate as it needs to be. So you kinda win on both sides." }, { "speaker": "Michael Georgiou", "startTime": "1055.17", "endTime": "1081.765", "body": "That's great. I love it. And and jumping a little bit here, Fritz. So with, you know, just more in regards to, you know, customer service, customer support, a lot of your experience. With your all of your experience in building and working with customer support teams in in in SaaS and your past careers and fostering trust with large, you know, with large enterprise level clients, what do you feel or what is your best advice on ensuring the customer is happy, essentially?" }, { "speaker": "Fritz Lehman", "startTime": "1081.765", "endTime": "1102.13", "body": "That's that's a good question too. Right? Because there may not be a single, you know, there may not be a single data point or a single attribute, but, you know, a lot of it is making sure that the people that you have hired have the mentality of customer support. Right? If you if you hire people whose attitude is, damn, I just wanna get this person off the phone." }, { "speaker": "Fritz Lehman", "startTime": "1102.21", "endTime": "1115.6849", "body": "I don't care about them. I don't care about their problem. I just wanna get them off the phone so they're not bothering me anymore. In other words, it's all about you, and it's not about them. So you you you need to hire the people that that, you know, have in their mind, you know, the customer's important." }, { "speaker": "Fritz Lehman", "startTime": "1115.6849", "endTime": "1172.61", "body": "And then once you hire them, you need to make sure that you are incenting them and encouraging them and making sure that the policy the policies or the attitudes of your company make sure that they understand that the customer is important. If if you if the customer believes honestly believes that you are there to help them and it's not a burden, you know, you are there to help them to, you know, to help them, you know, solve their problems, do their jobs, They will start to trust you, and if you are honest and and, authentic about it, you know, you'll you'll build those relationships with them, and they'll wanna continue to call you back, but they'll also wanna continue to use whatever product that you're helping them with. So, you know, you gotta hire the right people and then you've got to make sure that you continually, you know, preach what the values are that you have within your company to them. And you've got to not only walk the walk, I mean, or talk the talk, you gotta walk the walk at the management level, the executive management level, and every aspect of the company." }, { "speaker": "Fritz Lehman", "startTime": "1172.91", "endTime": "1186.41", "body": "So, you know, it it's not just one thing, but it is it it is something the the company and the corporation has to believe in. If they don't, it's gonna trickle down to the individuals on the other end of the support, whatever it is, and and the support will never be as good as it can be." }, { "speaker": "Michael Georgiou", "startTime": "1187.61", "endTime": "1204.05", "body": "And, you know, Fritz, you mentioned, management and and and leadership and all that. So what do you really recommend other managers, leaders, and anyone working with customers directly to build trust the right way? Because we know trust is so important. Right? Trust building building trust with customers is is number 1." }, { "speaker": "Michael Georgiou", "startTime": "1204.05", "endTime": "1207.91", "body": "I mean, building that long term relationship. So what are your thoughts on that?" }, { "speaker": "Fritz Lehman", "startTime": "1208.77", "endTime": "1232.315", "body": "Well, I think I I I have a fairly solid belief that all management at some point or another should be in a customer support position. Everybody should have had to live a life. Everybody should need to understand, you know, what is it like on the phone when somebody is yelling at you because something in your product doesn't work or at least they think it doesn't work. Right? Or yelling at you because they're so stressed out, about what they need to do." }, { "speaker": "Fritz Lehman", "startTime": "1232.455", "endTime": "1254.59", "body": "Or, you know, they're they're or, you know, calling you up and tell you how blissfully happy they are. Right? But I I firmly believe that every manager, every every executive, every manager should have to do something at some point, to own some accountability to a customer. And I think it's too easy to get to the top of the food chain and go, yeah. You know, it's not my job anymore to talk to, you know, talk to the people that pay our bills." }, { "speaker": "Fritz Lehman", "startTime": "1254.83", "endTime": "1274.48", "body": "That is in my opinion, that's a huge mistake. And I'm sure everybody's familiar, and I'll give a plug to Zappos. Zappos basically makes everybody in their company go through a 4 week training program. I think it's 4 weeks, and they have to be they have to be able to take phone calls in their call center in Las Vegas, Nevada. Right?" }, { "speaker": "Fritz Lehman", "startTime": "1274.62", "endTime": "1301.3", "body": "And I and I I think that is so cool. You know, I think everybody at whatever capacity, whatever your title is, should be able to handle handle a customer call. They should know enough about their company and the people in their company to be able to at least figure out, well, who can I go to to to solve this problem? Because my philosophy is is it's your problem until it's resolved or until somebody who can resolve it takes it from you. And that's something I learned a long time ago." }, { "speaker": "Fritz Lehman", "startTime": "1301.3", "endTime": "1306.84", "body": "You see it. It's your problem. You know? And you and it's up to you to now deal with it. Does that make sense?" }, { "speaker": "Michael Georgiou", "startTime": "1307.155", "endTime": "1327.975", "body": "Yeah. No. It makes complete sense. And I really like what you mentioned before about the food, you know, the food chain kind of you know, I've I've seen a lot of companies. What happens is, for example, you know, you know, directors, executives, even even owners, CEOs of of even small not even large companies, not even companies the size of SaaS." }, { "speaker": "Michael Georgiou", "startTime": "1327.975", "endTime": "1346.485", "body": "I'm talking about much smaller companies even with just a 100 people. What will happen is the the the owners, for example good example is the owners won't have any direct contact with the customer at all to ensure happiness is there. You know what I mean? They kind of they'll kind of delegate the work. And, although, I mean, I I believe delegation is important." }, { "speaker": "Michael Georgiou", "startTime": "1346.485", "endTime": "1356.0399", "body": "Obviously, you can't do all the work yourself, but you have to show some interaction with the customer. Right? Because you're without your customer, you're nothing. You're gonna go out of bit you're gonna go out of business. Right?" }, { "speaker": "Michael Georgiou", "startTime": "1356.0399", "endTime": "1362.765", "body": "Absolutely. You have to show attention to them to show that you really care. I think it's it just goes to that down to that level, you know?" }, { "speaker": "Fritz Lehman", "startTime": "1362.765", "endTime": "1408.94", "body": "I do I do believe that occasionally, and luckily it's not all the time, but I do believe occasionally people forget why you have customers, you know. And, you know, the goal the goal is to have customers, not to make them go away. So, you know, if if the if the executives at the company don't understand that or they forget it, you know, or, you know, they just distance themselves from that, I think that's a mistake. And I I was just, I was just in the the demo hall for, SAS Global Forum. And walking around the the floor was doctor Jim Goodnight, you know, who's the founder and owner of SAS, along with, his COO and along with, his chief marketing officer and a few other people walking around talking to the customers and walking around talking to the partners who are, you know, helping them drive business." }, { "speaker": "Fritz Lehman", "startTime": "1409.245", "endTime": "1428.0499", "body": "You know, that that act of walking around like that, the value of that can almost not be measured because they're gonna talk to people, they're gonna hear people, and the folks that pay their bills get a chance to say, hey, doctor. Good night. You know? We really love this, or, you know, we're having a little trouble here. And like I said, I I think you you cannot measure the value of that." }, { "speaker": "Michael Georgiou", "startTime": "1428.4651", "endTime": "1451.065", "body": "And I think it also comes down to, you know, the the humility of that leader. And I'm talking about leader in terms of any type of, well, anyone could really be a leader. It's subjective. But I mean, in terms of leaders in the company, like managers or or, the directors, owners, what have you, If they're showing attention to their customers, I think it shows a sense of humility. They're they're they're understanding, listen." }, { "speaker": "Michael Georgiou", "startTime": "1451.065", "endTime": "1452.65", "body": "You know? Without you, we're nothing." }, { "speaker": "Fritz Lehman", "startTime": "1452.65", "endTime": "1452.9701", "body": "Yep." }, { "speaker": "Michael Georgiou", "startTime": "1453.13", "endTime": "1463.345", "body": "So I'm gonna I'm gonna, you know, even spend just a few minutes with you seeing how you're doing. How is this account doing? Are you guys happy? What problems do you have? What ways can we fix them, what are the solution, you know what I mean?" }, { "speaker": "Fritz Lehman", "startTime": "1463.345", "endTime": "1463.505", "body": "Yeah." }, { "speaker": "Michael Georgiou", "startTime": "1463.505", "endTime": "1468.57", "body": "I think just getting down to that that, that level of humility is so vital and important." }, { "speaker": "Fritz Lehman", "startTime": "1468.73", "endTime": "1491.74", "body": "Absolutely. And if and if I could add one thing in here, and this is tangential. Right? If you're if you're in a leader position, well, you know, whether it's a frontline manager or all the way up to, know, the CEO of a big company. I think that the the idea of, you know, customers customer support, customer management, customer appreciation, I think that those folks all need to translate that down into the employees as well." }, { "speaker": "Fritz Lehman", "startTime": "1491.88", "endTime": "1519.3351", "body": "Because a lot of what you would do for your customers are the same things you should do for your employees. And I used to say all the time, I just assume go downstairs, walk around the cafeteria, talk to the guy who's sweeping the floors, you know, talk to the people that are making the food, or talk to the people, that are in the marketing department or whatever else. I want you know, I I think, you know, you you you learn more from talking to folks like that and your customers than you're going to talking to the, the CEO of the company. So it translates into your employees as well." }, { "speaker": "Michael Georgiou", "startTime": "1520.6799", "endTime": "1536.1799", "body": "Yeah. And and what do you feel for it? So what would your be what would your definition be of building a great customer experience? Like, just on a high level, on a bird's eye perspective, what would you feel is a is a is a great and amazing customer experience?" }, { "speaker": "Fritz Lehman", "startTime": "1536.1799", "endTime": "1555.73", "body": "Well, when the when the customer, you know, people pay for the use of the software. Let's just say let's just, you know, whatever software or whatever service you you've got, you know, they're paying for the use of it. And in today's world, they have options. So they can go pay somebody else at the same time. And a lot of times, you know, we all know this." }, { "speaker": "Fritz Lehman", "startTime": "1555.73", "endTime": "1572.07", "body": "We all know this in the industry or whatever industry, that there is just a fine line of difference between, you know, this piece of software, that piece of software. So which one they pick, a lot of times, there's very little difference. It almost doesn't matter. And we all know that. So at the end of the day then, what's the difference?" }, { "speaker": "Fritz Lehman", "startTime": "1572.1499", "endTime": "1601.945", "body": "The customer experience is what the difference is. So you teach you you treat your customers like, you know, you know, like dirt. Well, they're just gonna go walk next door to, you know, maybe the place that's just not quite as good, but they make them feel like that that you want them there. So the great customer experiences where they're, you know, where they want to come back, they wanna come back year over year, and they wanna interface with you over and over and over again. We always you know, one of the things we said at SAS was, if we're not getting calls into tech support, we've probably got a problem." }, { "speaker": "Fritz Lehman", "startTime": "1602.325", "endTime": "1623.015", "body": "So we can look at all the customers that are calling in. And if we look through there and we and we find some customers that we think are happy, but they're not calling into support or they're not taking some sort of a training. If we can't find that they're interacting with us on those levels, we need to call that customer because we probably got a problem. So if they wanna interact with you, that's a great customer experience." }, { "speaker": "Michael Georgiou", "startTime": "1625.5", "endTime": "1647.655", "body": "And do you feel there's certain, there's a certain process involved in regards to ensuring the customer experience is successful. For example, in terms of touching base with your customer once a week or twice, what kind of for you and your teams in regards to that? Like, more of the the the process or the strategy to ensure that they're receiving the love that they deserve kind of thing. You know?" }, { "speaker": "Fritz Lehman", "startTime": "1647.895", "endTime": "1676.52", "body": "I think a little bit of that goes back to understanding your data data. It was kinda what I was saying about, you know, we can look through our data and know who's been in contact with us. We can look in our in in our, our sales, systems to see who we've reached out to. You know, so, you know, my attitude was is somebody needs to be touching a customer on some regular basis. And I don't really care necessarily, if it's the sales team or if it's our customer loyalty team or other folks." }, { "speaker": "Fritz Lehman", "startTime": "1676.52", "endTime": "1695.85", "body": "Somebody needs to reach out and just say, hey. How's it going? And, you know, maybe, you know, maybe you get a good answer, maybe you don't. If you don't get a good answer, well, you you got some sort of a follow-up you need to do. We didn't have a we didn't have a strict pattern about how often we'd contact people, but we knew there were some customers that, were not in a sales cycle." }, { "speaker": "Fritz Lehman", "startTime": "1695.85", "endTime": "1703.905", "body": "So let's not have a sales team call them because they don't wanna talk to them. They don't wanna talk to the salespeople. Right? It's the wrong time. So we would have the customer loyalty team who don't have a sales target." }, { "speaker": "Fritz Lehman", "startTime": "1703.905", "endTime": "1726.645", "body": "They are literally calling to say, what can I do for you? You know, is there something I can do to clear a path, you know, knock over an obstacle? So some of it, it comes down to knowing your customer, knowing what they're doing, knowing where they are, and having the right people touch base with them on whatever interval you wanna touch base. The customers that were a lot of times extremely unhappy with us is, like, you know, we haven't heard from you guys in 6 years. How come?" }, { "speaker": "Fritz Lehman", "startTime": "1727.025", "endTime": "1744.585", "body": "Right? And and they'd all you know, and if it's, like, well, you know, if if we're not if it's because we're not selling anything or we're not buying anything, well, you don't care about us. Right? All you care is if we're gonna buy something. So we try to take the attitude that we're gonna have somebody touch base as often as we can, but not always for the sake of trying to make another dollar." }, { "speaker": "Fritz Lehman", "startTime": "1744.805", "endTime": "1750.48", "body": "Just, you know, let's just make sure they're happy and they keep coming back every year. But we didn't have a regular cadence to it." }, { "speaker": "Michael Georgiou", "startTime": "1752.2999", "endTime": "1770.7899", "body": "Yeah. And it's funny how how everything's integrated. Isn't it, Fritz? For example, every on a holistic perspective, everything is so, everything ties in together, like the customer loyalty team, right, the customer support, sales. Because if they're all doing their job, then it's easier to upsell." }, { "speaker": "Michael Georgiou", "startTime": "1770.85", "endTime": "1775.955", "body": "It's easier to to make more money. Right? Because they're happy. They feel the love. They're feeling that you guys care." }, { "speaker": "Michael Georgiou", "startTime": "1776.355", "endTime": "1793.825", "body": "So even if things are wrong, I mean, nothing's ever gonna be perfect. But at the same time, if you touch base with them and you're following up with the customer, you're letting them know, hey. There's a, a you know, we we understand there's a problem where we, you know, we're here to support you and and fix this problem. Here's the solution or what have you. That sometimes that's all it takes." }, { "speaker": "Michael Georgiou", "startTime": "1793.825", "endTime": "1803.49", "body": "Even if you don't fix it immediately, sometimes just having that conversation will lead to more sales in the future. So really all everything just kind of ties in together. Right? So it's crazy to help out" }, { "speaker": "Fritz Lehman", "startTime": "1803.49", "endTime": "1812.665", "body": "with it. Sometimes you do it on purpose. Sometimes you do it by accident, frankly. It you know, it's not always a prescribed approach. But, you know, we all know it's easier to upsell to a happy customer." }, { "speaker": "Fritz Lehman", "startTime": "1812.665", "endTime": "1834.135", "body": "We all know that. So do what you can do to make you know, to keep them on a on a happier or even keel. The other thing to keep in mind, and I think most people in consulting know this, it it's a lot more expensive to fix something that's broken than to get it right the first time. And it may cost you some money to get it right the first time, but it is way way more expensive to fix it once it's broken. So try to get it right the first time." }, { "speaker": "Michael Georgiou", "startTime": "1836.45", "endTime": "1842.85", "body": "Yeah. Yeah. And what do you feel people do wrong when they deal with customers? What have what have the kind of you seen" }, { "speaker": "Fritz Lehman", "startTime": "1843.01", "endTime": "1843.475", "body": "Oh." }, { "speaker": "Michael Georgiou", "startTime": "1843.5549", "endTime": "1845.895", "body": "That That's true. They Some sometimes wrong." }, { "speaker": "Fritz Lehman", "startTime": "1845.955", "endTime": "1851.09", "body": "Sure. They treat them as treat them as a commodity. Right? I don't care about you. Don't really care what you do." }, { "speaker": "Fritz Lehman", "startTime": "1851.1699", "endTime": "1867.2051", "body": "Don't really care what your industry is. Hey, but what can I sell you? You know, and, you know, customers are smarter than that. You know, they and I I tell I used to tell people all the time. When you pick up the phone and call somebody and they treat you badly, you know it and you complain about it." }, { "speaker": "Fritz Lehman", "startTime": "1867.49", "endTime": "1886.79", "body": "So why would you think that that works any better when you call somebody else and treat them badly? Right? So look at it from their point of view. So show them you know, if you don't show them respect, if you're and if you're not sincere, you're just trying to force something down their throat because you've got a target to make. Now, you know, everybody's you know, typically, everybody's got some sort of target they're trying to hit." }, { "speaker": "Fritz Lehman", "startTime": "1886.79", "endTime": "1923.825", "body": "But, the good sales reps that I've been around in my life, they understand the right thing to do today, knowing that it may be building for what they need to do tomorrow. And if you do the wrong thing today, there is no tomorrow. So treat your just treat them with respect, just like you would expect yourself to be treated. You know, you do that, and your customers, you know, they'll accept a lot of maybe mediocre things, you know, either from your company or in life from you. They'll accept them a whole lot easier if they feel like that at least they're honest mistakes and you're treating the prospects, you take accountability for what you're doing." }, { "speaker": "Fritz Lehman", "startTime": "1924.465", "endTime": "1936.0599", "body": "But don't treat them, you know, don't treat them like a commodity. I don't care if it's a $50,000 sale, you know, in a in a big company, or it's a $10,000,000 sale. Treat them with respect, just like you would want help to be treated." }, { "speaker": "Michael Georgiou", "startTime": "1939.085", "endTime": "1959.1951", "body": "Yeah. I think also adding to that, having having, the right intentions and motives, you know, I think people can, I I think nowadays, there's a there's a from what I've seen in business in general, there's a lack of trust? It's hard to trust people just because everyone's been, I mean, we've all been screwed over one way or another. Right? So it's hard to it really is." }, { "speaker": "Michael Georgiou", "startTime": "1959.1951", "endTime": "1978.4349", "body": "So it's hard to trust people. So when when, I think when it comes to the you know, you're selling a product or service, or you're supporting that product or service, it comes down to Yeah. Investing in people. People are not just gonna invest in the in in SaaS or or Zenkos or whatever I mean. They're gonna invest in that person." }, { "speaker": "Michael Georgiou", "startTime": "1978.4349", "endTime": "1980.81", "body": "They're like, man, I like this person that's selling me this." }, { "speaker": "Fritz Lehman", "startTime": "1980.81", "endTime": "1981.05", "body": "Yeah." }, { "speaker": "Michael Georgiou", "startTime": "1981.05", "endTime": "1990.875", "body": "They're representing their brand very well. I like the way they're they're they're approaching me. They're providing me with a lot of value. They're understanding me and my wants and needs, and I wanna work with them" }, { "speaker": "Fritz Lehman", "startTime": "1990.875", "endTime": "2007.895", "body": "because of the way they're enabling you. The most popular thing, let's just say in a software company. But and you can insert company here. I'm I'm not talking about anybody in particular. And it doesn't have to be about software, but if you're talking about software, analytics software, any other kind, it's a tool." }, { "speaker": "Fritz Lehman", "startTime": "2007.955", "endTime": "2019.105", "body": "That's all it is. It's a tool. And if you hand it to somebody, and say, here's your tool, it's like handing a screwdriver, a saw, a hammer, whatever. Well, if you've never held a hammer in your life, what do you do with a hammer? I don't know." }, { "speaker": "Fritz Lehman", "startTime": "2019.1849", "endTime": "2027.445", "body": "If you've never held a circular saw, what do you do with a circular saw? I don't know. Right? So there's tools. At the end of the day, tools are used by people." }, { "speaker": "Fritz Lehman", "startTime": "2027.98", "endTime": "2042.745", "body": "So if you don't have people within your company that are experts, that can communicate, that can do the right thing with your customer, you are giving them something that's simply a commodity that they don't know how to use. So at the end of the day, it's about people. It's not about the tool." }, { "speaker": "Michael Georgiou", "startTime": "2047.04", "endTime": "2064.25", "body": "Yeah. I love it. As as so true, it really is it really is about people. And and just kind of going back to your your SaaS days, Fritz. At SaaS Institute, you were there for, you know, for many many years, and and what was a a specific and I'll let you choose." }, { "speaker": "Michael Georgiou", "startTime": "2064.25", "endTime": "2069.93", "body": "You can choose funny or whatever is memorable to you, but what was the specific memory or story that" }, { "speaker": "Fritz Lehman", "startTime": "2069.93", "endTime": "2084.79", "body": "you've been rolling in for 34 years. Yeah. That that that that's a really hard one being some place for so many years. You know, I I could do some mental things. Like I said, I I you know, having people come up to me and and talk about, you know, that I made a difference." }, { "speaker": "Fritz Lehman", "startTime": "2085.17", "endTime": "2110.765", "body": "And and that's probably the thing I would, you know, I'd say. You know, having people say that you made a difference was, it, it's the greatest thing in the world. And, you know, tell me somebody that I changed their life or that I said something that allowed them to move forward to do something that they didn't think they could do. Some of this goes back to my days at the University of Oklahoma when I was a swim coach. My job was to get people to do something they didn't believe they could do." }, { "speaker": "Fritz Lehman", "startTime": "2110.9849", "endTime": "2132.84", "body": "Whether it was, you know, swim faster than they've ever swum before. And I also coached adults, and I and I my my job with coaching adults who had never raced, never swum before, was to get them out of a comfort zone and to do something that they'd never done. So I would say, you know, anytime somebody came up to me and said, and say, do you remember? And this changed my life. And that happened, thankfully, a lot of times." }, { "speaker": "Fritz Lehman", "startTime": "2132.84", "endTime": "2155.44", "body": "And, you know, all the people that did it, I I I can't thank them enough for making sure that I knew that. A funny moment, we used to teach with transparencies, you know, film. And we'd, you know, we have we've had a class of 400 pages. So you had 400 pages of transparencies, and it was important that they were in the right order because they match the books that the people had. This is in the olden days when people had books." }, { "speaker": "Fritz Lehman", "startTime": "2155.44", "endTime": "2179.475", "body": "Right? And I'm driving to the airport because I gotta go teach a class someplace, and I was I had a little pickup truck and I had a briefcase full of my 400 transparencies in the back of it. And I've I've gone in RDU, and I'm pulling in and I'm pulling in. An RDU wasn't as big in those days. I look in the rear view mirror just in time to see 400 transparencies fly out of my briefcase onto the highway on the back of the road, you know, and I'm panicking because in those days, we didn't have backups." }, { "speaker": "Fritz Lehman", "startTime": "2179.475", "endTime": "2203.59", "body": "I mean, if you didn't have your transparencies, you had nothing. And I'm swerving over the corner of the road, you know, getting out on my hands and knees on almost on the highway, you know, trying to gather all these transparencies, which are now in a random order so that I can get on my plane, spend all night long trying to figure out what I've got and what I don't have. But, you know, if you can't laugh at yourself, and that's the other thing. If you can't laugh at yourself, you know, you need to figure it out. You know?" }, { "speaker": "Fritz Lehman", "startTime": "2203.59", "endTime": "2212.095", "body": "Because sometimes, funny things just happen, you know? And and and it all works out. Right? It all works out. Yeah." }, { "speaker": "Michael Georgiou", "startTime": "2214.76", "endTime": "2232.85", "body": "It does. And it's you know, I think it's important. You know, I know you touched on on helping people and being memorable and and and, being an influence, inspiration on other people, especially being a leader. At the same time, I always tell people this, you know, in my opinion. Yeah." }, { "speaker": "Michael Georgiou", "startTime": "2233.1501", "endTime": "2246.935", "body": "When you die, you're not taking any of these things with you. Right? So it's good for you to leave a positive footprint of inspiration, encouragement to, to, you know, to the to the people that you interact with in your life. You know? Because you don't know their story." }, { "speaker": "Michael Georgiou", "startTime": "2246.935", "endTime": "2265.055", "body": "You don't know where they're from. You don't know what they're going through. So for you as a leader Yep. In in business or even just in life in general, when you're treating the the, the the small guy like treat the big guy, it's you know, I think that goes a long way and it says a lot about yourself." }, { "speaker": "Fritz Lehman", "startTime": "2265.055", "endTime": "2284.22", "body": "You know, if somebody listening to this hears it and and a light bulb goes on, then we've done our job today. Right? Treat everybody treat everybody with the same respect. Whether it's doctor Goodnight who's, you know, obviously one of the most wealthy men in the country or it's again, it's the person who's working for doctor Goodnight who's cleaning up the tile floors. You know." }, { "speaker": "Fritz Lehman", "startTime": "2284.22", "endTime": "2295.215", "body": "They're just people. And as you said, you don't know where they are in life, and you never know when you're going to have a positive or negative impact on them. So, you know, never underestimate the small conversation you have with someone." }, { "speaker": "Michael Georgiou", "startTime": "2295.995", "endTime": "2310.09", "body": "Yeah. And this really ties into the, one of the final questions is is, you know, you being a strong business leader, Fritz, do you have any Viber tips for future or current leaders on what they need to do to ensure and maintain success?" }, { "speaker": "Fritz Lehman", "startTime": "2310.775", "endTime": "2322.42", "body": "Sure. You know, simple things. I I mentioned perseverance early. Too many people want to be doctor Goodnight. They wanna be the CEO of SAS Institute and they wanna do it in 1 year." }, { "speaker": "Fritz Lehman", "startTime": "2322.42", "endTime": "2332.2349", "body": "Right? So you you you've gotta have some sense of reasonableness when you get into things. You know, should it take 34 years to get to where I got when I retired? Yeah. I don't know." }, { "speaker": "Fritz Lehman", "startTime": "2332.2349", "endTime": "2336.95", "body": "It took me 34 years to get there. Would it take everybody? No. No. Probably not." }, { "speaker": "Fritz Lehman", "startTime": "2337.27", "endTime": "2344.17", "body": "That's your story, though. Yeah. But it it's exactly right. That's what it took for me and, you know, that was the road I took. But perseverance is important." }, { "speaker": "Fritz Lehman", "startTime": "2344.4849", "endTime": "2376.6", "body": "And then the other thing, I think maybe the the most important thing, other than treat people to respect, I can't say that enough. The other most important thing is never stop learning and never quit looking at yourself and looking at what's around you and trying to have honest self evaluation about what you're doing and where you are. Because a lot of times people will not give you the feedback you need. So, you know, it's tough. It's tough to look at yourself honestly, but if you keep growing and you keep watching and you keep listening, you'll find the feedback you need to get better." }, { "speaker": "Fritz Lehman", "startTime": "2376.66", "endTime": "2396.56", "body": "And in my opinion, people simply don't listen enough, but keep growing, keep learning, and if need be, change your job, go do something else. You know, it's just it's all part of the learning process that's gonna take you on whatever journey you're gonna take. But just keep learning and listen. Listen to what people tell you, because it's amazing what people will tell you if you listen to them." }, { "speaker": "Michael Georgiou", "startTime": "2396.825", "endTime": "2406.24", "body": "Fantastic. That's well, that's that's amazing advice. Appreciate that. So just final last final three questions I always ask every single interviewee for instance. I call them the three how's." }, { "speaker": "Michael Georgiou", "startTime": "2406.24", "endTime": "2411.78", "body": "So how define failure, how would you define business, and how would you define success?" }, { "speaker": "Fritz Lehman", "startTime": "2413.535", "endTime": "2427.99", "body": "How would I define failure? Oh, man. Jeez. It seems like I mean, I I have failed so many times, and I've known every single time I failed. I it's nobody had to tell me on a lot of them." }, { "speaker": "Fritz Lehman", "startTime": "2427.99", "endTime": "2436.4749", "body": "I I certainly heard about it a lot of times. But failure is not living up to the expectations that have been set by someone or something. Right? There's something written down. There's rules." }, { "speaker": "Fritz Lehman", "startTime": "2436.4749", "endTime": "2453.4849", "body": "There's regulations, or you made a promise to somebody, or or the people around you did, if you're in a high level management position. Right? Something something didn't live up to somebody's expectations. And, how you handle that is is important as how you handle success. And in fact, I think most people need to handle failure." }, { "speaker": "Fritz Lehman", "startTime": "2454.01", "endTime": "2465.0151", "body": "That it's it's a learning point for you. It's something, that you need to take and learn from. If you don't ever fail, I don't know how you grow, frankly. So I'm not sure if I answered that question. What was the second one?" }, { "speaker": "Michael Georgiou", "startTime": "2465.0151", "endTime": "2467.675", "body": "And, how do you define business, and how do you define success?" }, { "speaker": "Fritz Lehman", "startTime": "2469.2551", "endTime": "2485.685", "body": "How do I define business? You know, that's a good one too because for me business was just what I got up and did every morning. I I never really looked at it like business. I never really looked at it so much like a job. I just looked at it as something I enjoyed doing." }, { "speaker": "Fritz Lehman", "startTime": "2485.905", "endTime": "2507.21", "body": "So, I don't know, business is is, whatever it is you wanna define it to be. But, for me, it was it was, it was a joy. I loved, you know, there were certainly times I didn't love it as much, but I loved my 34 years of business. I loved my 34 years of what I did. It's probably not an answer to the question, but I think that's as close as I'm gonna get." }, { "speaker": "Michael Georgiou", "startTime": "2507.21", "endTime": "2509.53", "body": "So Yeah. It seems like I love dealing with people." }, { "speaker": "Fritz Lehman", "startTime": "2509.53", "endTime": "2526.34", "body": "Yeah. I do. I I love dealing with people. Well, you know, success for me, and I'll I'll kind of jump to the next one. Success for me was always the attitude that wherever I've been, whoever has worked for me, whoever I've coached will end up being better than I was." }, { "speaker": "Fritz Lehman", "startTime": "2526.34", "endTime": "2547.51", "body": "My goal and I I used to say this in my staff meetings, especially early on. I said my goal is for each of you to grow, to be better, rise higher, and be more successful, you know, back whatever that means to you, than I was. That was always my goal. I was never the kind of manager that wanted to put somebody under my boot. You know, I wanted all of them to succeed at a greater level than me." }, { "speaker": "Fritz Lehman", "startTime": "2547.515", "endTime": "2557.03", "body": "So for me, success was watching people that came up underneath me and went on to do well. Then as long as I had people do that, I was happy. You know, to me, that is success." }, { "speaker": "Michael Georgiou", "startTime": "2557.09", "endTime": "2565.915", "body": "That's a a perfect, perfect way of ending the this this episode, Fritz. I really appreciate it. So where can everyone find you? Your, you know, social media, website?" }, { "speaker": "Fritz Lehman", "startTime": "2566.375", "endTime": "2577.95", "body": "Yeah. You can you can find me, Fritz Lehman, on LinkedIn. You can find me on Twitter. If you if you message me on LinkedIn, I'll be happy to message you back. I can give you my email address." }, { "speaker": "Fritz Lehman", "startTime": "2578.73", "endTime": "2591.5999", "body": "Happy to talk to anybody. I'm happy to talk to you. So look for me on LinkedIn, send me a message, and I'll respond. I'm happy to talk to you. So look for me on LinkedIn, send me a message, and I'll respond." }, { "speaker": "Michael Georgiou", "startTime": "2592.7", "endTime": "2603.355", "body": "Amazing. Thank you so much, Fritz, for being a part of this podcast and and essentially sharing your story with us. I'm very thankful, very humbled, and I'm I'm appreciative. So so thank you again." }, { "speaker": "Fritz Lehman", "startTime": "2603.575", "endTime": "2605.275", "body": "Well, thank you. Invite me back someday." }, { "speaker": "Michael Georgiou", "startTime": "2605.815", "endTime": "2615.59", "body": "Absolutely. Cool. Alright. Well, thanks again everyone for listening, and this is your host, Michael Georgiou, on Tales from the Pros, and until next time. Thanks, guys." } ] }