WEBVTT NOTE This file was generated by Descript 00:00:43.584 --> 00:00:44.434 Kevin Griffin: Welcome back to the show. 00:00:44.434 --> 00:00:44.964 Everyone. 00:00:45.014 --> 00:00:46.404 , it is commentary time. 00:00:46.694 --> 00:00:49.184 I'm joined with Sean and Chad. 00:00:49.194 --> 00:00:50.624 How you gentlemen doing today? 00:00:52.174 --> 00:00:52.834 Chad Carter: Doing well, Kevin. 00:00:53.114 --> 00:00:53.734 Hope you're doing well. 00:00:53.964 --> 00:00:54.574 Kevin Griffin: Awesome. 00:00:54.614 --> 00:00:56.074 Well, we had the opportunity. 00:00:56.074 --> 00:00:57.284 Well, I had the opportunity to sit 00:00:57.284 --> 00:00:59.684 down and actually talk to Brett Fisher 00:00:59.694 --> 00:01:01.924 about his life and his business. 00:01:02.344 --> 00:01:04.644 , Sean and Chad had the opportunity 00:01:04.644 --> 00:01:08.724 to listen to the first cut of the 00:01:08.744 --> 00:01:10.554 interview and we're going to sit down. 00:01:10.554 --> 00:01:11.974 We're going to talk about some of 00:01:11.974 --> 00:01:14.424 the big ideas that we pulled from 00:01:14.554 --> 00:01:17.279 the interview and Hopefully lessons 00:01:17.289 --> 00:01:19.549 that you all can learn along the way. 00:01:19.989 --> 00:01:21.299 , so instead of me going first, I 00:01:21.319 --> 00:01:23.929 want to save myself for last chat. 00:01:23.929 --> 00:01:25.229 I'm going to ask you what, 00:01:25.519 --> 00:01:26.729 what was the big idea you 00:01:26.729 --> 00:01:28.989 pulled from Brett's interview? 00:01:29.604 --> 00:01:30.994 Chad Carter: Yeah, there's a lot, right? 00:01:30.994 --> 00:01:32.264 And he, uh, it was, it was 00:01:32.264 --> 00:01:33.514 a really good, uh, episode. 00:01:33.514 --> 00:01:35.864 I thoroughly enjoyed, uh, uh, 00:01:35.874 --> 00:01:37.354 listening to you two go back and forth. 00:01:37.404 --> 00:01:39.154 Um, but I guess the, the main thing 00:01:39.154 --> 00:01:41.234 I'll talk about, uh, today is what 00:01:41.234 --> 00:01:42.654 he mentioned that Venn diagram. 00:01:42.694 --> 00:01:43.794 So when he was talking about getting 00:01:43.794 --> 00:01:45.874 clients or even, I think he also kind 00:01:45.874 --> 00:01:47.624 of fools with this or, or takes this 00:01:47.644 --> 00:01:48.544 into account when he's talking about 00:01:48.544 --> 00:01:50.124 projects, what projects he's going to do. 00:01:50.554 --> 00:01:51.624 And this has been diagram and the 00:01:51.624 --> 00:01:53.284 things he said was it needs to 00:01:53.284 --> 00:01:54.794 be feeding me, not draining me. 00:01:55.514 --> 00:01:56.694 He said that has to be 00:01:56.704 --> 00:01:57.424 bringing in revenue. 00:01:58.039 --> 00:01:59.479 And it needs to build an audience. 00:01:59.499 --> 00:02:00.739 So those are the three things. 00:02:01.089 --> 00:02:04.269 Um, and I just think that's kind of 00:02:04.379 --> 00:02:06.159 a critical thing to keep in mind. 00:02:06.159 --> 00:02:10.049 So, you know, uh, Stephen Covey, uh, 00:02:10.599 --> 00:02:12.869 whole book had, um, yeah, multiple 00:02:12.869 --> 00:02:15.459 books, but one was, you know, um, seven 00:02:15.459 --> 00:02:17.089 habits of highly effective people. 00:02:17.439 --> 00:02:18.939 And one of the habits there is 00:02:18.939 --> 00:02:20.419 beginning with the end of mind. 00:02:20.579 --> 00:02:20.859 Right. 00:02:20.899 --> 00:02:23.279 And, uh, that's just like a principle. 00:02:23.279 --> 00:02:25.139 I just hold on to a lot, try to 00:02:25.139 --> 00:02:26.619 anyway, not always good at it, 00:02:26.619 --> 00:02:27.549 but that's what I try to do. 00:02:27.939 --> 00:02:28.539 And. 00:02:29.299 --> 00:02:30.699 I think just trying to when you're 00:02:30.699 --> 00:02:32.079 starting out or trying to determine, you 00:02:32.079 --> 00:02:34.139 know, how you're going to go and create 00:02:34.159 --> 00:02:37.559 side income, uh, and or grow your side 00:02:37.559 --> 00:02:39.219 income to so it can be your main income. 00:02:39.419 --> 00:02:41.199 I think this advice here on this whole 00:02:41.199 --> 00:02:42.769 Venn diagram is really, really good. 00:02:44.054 --> 00:02:45.824 Because if it's not feeding you 00:02:46.404 --> 00:02:47.664 and it's actually draining you, 00:02:47.904 --> 00:02:49.134 you can't keep it up long term. 00:02:49.144 --> 00:02:50.714 It doesn't matter how disciplined you are. 00:02:50.714 --> 00:02:52.244 It doesn't matter how hard worker you are. 00:02:52.254 --> 00:02:53.504 It doesn't, you know, it's like, if 00:02:53.504 --> 00:02:55.154 you don't, if it's not feeding you 00:02:55.384 --> 00:02:56.884 and it's actually draining energy out, 00:02:56.884 --> 00:02:58.764 you, it really cannot be sustained. 00:02:58.864 --> 00:03:00.374 So I think that being in 00:03:00.374 --> 00:03:01.604 there is super important. 00:03:02.074 --> 00:03:03.814 And then of course, if it's not bringing 00:03:03.814 --> 00:03:05.384 in revenue, it's not bringing the money. 00:03:05.384 --> 00:03:07.054 Well, you don't have a business. 00:03:07.334 --> 00:03:08.154 Uh, you're not going to be 00:03:08.154 --> 00:03:09.424 in business very long there. 00:03:09.454 --> 00:03:10.834 So it has to be a critical. 00:03:11.104 --> 00:03:12.474 And the interesting thing is. 00:03:13.759 --> 00:03:16.839 Um, I, I tend to go on premium 00:03:16.839 --> 00:03:18.529 pricing versus trying to be the 00:03:18.529 --> 00:03:20.899 cheapest on stuff, uh, because. 00:03:21.534 --> 00:03:22.914 You know, there's no advantage 00:03:22.914 --> 00:03:24.394 to be the second cheapest, right? 00:03:24.394 --> 00:03:24.934 There's no advantage 00:03:24.934 --> 00:03:25.794 being second cheapest. 00:03:26.044 --> 00:03:27.214 And if you're the cheapest, well, 00:03:27.444 --> 00:03:29.264 somebody, it's just always going to be 00:03:29.264 --> 00:03:31.154 providing as much value as you can for 00:03:31.154 --> 00:03:32.454 as little as you can, and you just can 00:03:32.454 --> 00:03:34.104 get priced out, out of the game anyway. 00:03:34.454 --> 00:03:37.014 And, uh, which is great for the market. 00:03:37.344 --> 00:03:40.264 Uh, but as consultants and, you know, 00:03:40.284 --> 00:03:42.294 providing value, it's, it's all about, 00:03:42.684 --> 00:03:45.724 uh, determining where that value is and 00:03:45.974 --> 00:03:48.474 having a premium price, but also like 00:03:48.824 --> 00:03:50.114 in order to charge that price, you can't 00:03:50.114 --> 00:03:51.364 just say, Oh, I'm gonna raise my prices. 00:03:52.039 --> 00:03:53.039 But you charge a price 00:03:53.129 --> 00:03:53.869 in order to do that. 00:03:53.869 --> 00:03:54.579 You have to provide 00:03:54.599 --> 00:03:55.729 tons and tons of value. 00:03:55.729 --> 00:03:56.399 Something nobody else 00:03:56.399 --> 00:03:57.089 in the market is doing. 00:03:57.509 --> 00:03:59.199 That's, I think, where the key's at. 00:03:59.209 --> 00:04:00.149 So it's not just about, Oh, 00:04:00.289 --> 00:04:01.089 I didn't charge more money. 00:04:01.089 --> 00:04:01.989 I'm gonna double my rates. 00:04:03.079 --> 00:04:04.149 You have to actually provide value. 00:04:04.229 --> 00:04:05.119 But the whole point is 00:04:05.119 --> 00:04:06.109 revenue has to come in. 00:04:06.119 --> 00:04:07.449 And if you have that revenue coming 00:04:07.449 --> 00:04:08.749 in, and it's actually a premium 00:04:08.749 --> 00:04:10.679 revenue, you can then hire a team. 00:04:10.679 --> 00:04:12.289 You can then bring in other people. 00:04:12.589 --> 00:04:13.579 You can actually solve 00:04:13.579 --> 00:04:14.849 problems in more creative ways. 00:04:15.339 --> 00:04:15.719 Sean Merron: And it, 00:04:16.229 --> 00:04:16.689 Chad Carter: and again, 00:04:16.769 --> 00:04:17.459 Sean Merron: at some point, right. 00:04:17.459 --> 00:04:18.529 China becomes like a supply 00:04:18.529 --> 00:04:19.599 and demand equation, right? 00:04:19.639 --> 00:04:20.719 Like it's like, okay, I have 00:04:20.749 --> 00:04:22.139 X amount of hours or X amount 00:04:22.139 --> 00:04:23.479 of bandwidth or resources. 00:04:23.479 --> 00:04:23.749 Right. 00:04:23.759 --> 00:04:25.539 And so naturally you can 00:04:25.539 --> 00:04:26.699 start to charge more, right. 00:04:26.779 --> 00:04:28.189 As . , you get more clients, you 00:04:28.189 --> 00:04:29.809 get more, you know, more revenue 00:04:29.819 --> 00:04:31.079 potentially, or you reached a point 00:04:31.079 --> 00:04:32.359 where your expenses are so high. 00:04:32.369 --> 00:04:33.439 You need to raise your revenue 00:04:33.459 --> 00:04:34.729 from all the demand coming in. 00:04:34.779 --> 00:04:37.179 So it is interesting to try and figure 00:04:37.179 --> 00:04:38.439 out what, what is the right price to 00:04:38.439 --> 00:04:39.679 start with, where you're just trying to, 00:04:39.729 --> 00:04:42.569 you know, you know, get, get, get a bunch 00:04:42.569 --> 00:04:44.299 of, and we see this a lot actually, where 00:04:44.299 --> 00:04:46.249 people come in new businesses, especially 00:04:46.249 --> 00:04:48.189 in the, um, labor industry, right. 00:04:48.229 --> 00:04:48.779 Manual labor. 00:04:49.329 --> 00:04:50.869 Living fences, for example, down here in 00:04:50.869 --> 00:04:52.739 Gulf Shores, it's like people will come 00:04:52.739 --> 00:04:55.089 in and like be the cheapest contractor. 00:04:55.089 --> 00:04:55.279 Right. 00:04:55.279 --> 00:04:57.129 At first, just to get the business. 00:04:57.129 --> 00:04:57.429 Right. 00:04:57.709 --> 00:04:58.919 Or like mowing lawns, right. 00:04:58.919 --> 00:04:59.699 Landscaping and stuff. 00:04:59.749 --> 00:05:00.919 And then once they get it, they start 00:05:00.919 --> 00:05:02.579 to realize, you know, like good clients, 00:05:02.589 --> 00:05:04.889 bad clients, and, you know, now I have 00:05:04.889 --> 00:05:07.009 the opportunity to really start raising 00:05:07.009 --> 00:05:09.419 my prices and, you know, reducing the 00:05:09.419 --> 00:05:11.549 amount of jobs that I want to take. 00:05:11.549 --> 00:05:12.319 It's more becomes about 00:05:12.319 --> 00:05:13.459 quality over quantity. 00:05:13.459 --> 00:05:14.009 At that point, 00:05:16.019 --> 00:05:17.039 Chad Carter: Yeah, I think 00:05:17.039 --> 00:05:18.399 that's exactly right. 00:05:18.399 --> 00:05:20.479 Because the thing is, if you... 00:05:20.749 --> 00:05:21.599 Sometimes you have to, and he 00:05:21.599 --> 00:05:22.469 mentioned this to you, sometimes 00:05:22.889 --> 00:05:24.429 you just have to do stuff for 00:05:24.429 --> 00:05:26.059 money, something for money, right? 00:05:26.319 --> 00:05:27.669 Because you're just getting started out. 00:05:27.699 --> 00:05:29.989 You can't say, I can charge this premium 00:05:29.989 --> 00:05:31.429 rate because I have all the securities. 00:05:31.429 --> 00:05:31.989 I have all this stuff. 00:05:32.009 --> 00:05:33.189 I'm going to provide all this value. 00:05:33.199 --> 00:05:34.239 It's like, we haven't really 00:05:34.239 --> 00:05:35.009 proved that value yet. 00:05:35.179 --> 00:05:36.759 You haven't, you haven't proven that you 00:05:36.759 --> 00:05:38.379 can do that or that you will do that. 00:05:38.749 --> 00:05:42.079 Um, and so unless timing is just right 00:05:42.079 --> 00:05:43.429 and you have just the right person, 00:05:43.599 --> 00:05:44.919 it's very hard to kind of charge this 00:05:44.939 --> 00:05:47.039 premium rate and go straight into it. 00:05:47.039 --> 00:05:47.679 So usually you have to 00:05:47.679 --> 00:05:49.139 build yourself up into that. 00:05:49.459 --> 00:05:51.284 Uh, but knowing Knowing that 00:05:51.284 --> 00:05:52.784 that's your end goal when you get 00:05:52.784 --> 00:05:54.824 started, is a really powerful thing. 00:05:55.154 --> 00:05:57.074 Uh, versus just getting in, just trying 00:05:57.074 --> 00:05:58.754 to get business and then spending a 00:05:58.754 --> 00:06:01.214 decade working at these low rates, not 00:06:01.219 --> 00:06:02.864 realizing that, oh, there's actually 00:06:02.864 --> 00:06:04.604 a better way, a better way to do this. 00:06:04.994 --> 00:06:06.314 Um, and the other thing he mentioned 00:06:06.314 --> 00:06:08.054 that that third person, third piece of 00:06:08.059 --> 00:06:09.404 the diagram was building an audience. 00:06:09.734 --> 00:06:12.094 And if you, and again, I think this 00:06:12.094 --> 00:06:13.864 is more from the content management 00:06:13.864 --> 00:06:15.454 side, uh, of stuff that he's doing, 00:06:15.454 --> 00:06:17.314 but in general, if you think about 00:06:17.314 --> 00:06:18.424 the audience, it's all about. 00:06:19.004 --> 00:06:20.794 You have this notion of a funnel, right? 00:06:20.914 --> 00:06:22.164 So you have like what's called a 00:06:22.164 --> 00:06:24.484 sales funnel and you have potential 00:06:24.484 --> 00:06:26.354 leads that come into your funnel 00:06:26.524 --> 00:06:27.854 and you kind of filter down, then 00:06:27.864 --> 00:06:29.044 ultimately they become a client. 00:06:29.244 --> 00:06:30.494 Or they buy your product, right? 00:06:30.494 --> 00:06:32.544 Depending if it's a service or, you know, 00:06:32.644 --> 00:06:33.924 an actual product that you're selling. 00:06:34.694 --> 00:06:38.319 And in order to Um, in order to 00:06:38.319 --> 00:06:40.109 actually make a decent amount of 00:06:40.129 --> 00:06:41.129 money, you need to have a lot of 00:06:41.169 --> 00:06:42.499 people coming into your funnel. 00:06:42.649 --> 00:06:44.119 A lot of people coming in to know about 00:06:44.119 --> 00:06:46.569 you, uh, to cause the best, the best 00:06:46.569 --> 00:06:48.939 sales you can get are inbound sales. 00:06:48.969 --> 00:06:50.049 When they call you up and like, 00:06:50.049 --> 00:06:51.599 Hey, Kevin, I want to work with you. 00:06:51.819 --> 00:06:52.789 I saw you online. 00:06:53.064 --> 00:06:54.234 And I'll work with you and 00:06:54.234 --> 00:06:54.964 you're like, well, great. 00:06:55.004 --> 00:06:55.874 My fee is this. 00:06:55.874 --> 00:06:57.294 And it's, it's like the hard parts 00:06:57.294 --> 00:06:58.794 already done versus, you know, 00:06:58.884 --> 00:06:59.954 people have to go out and call, 00:06:59.954 --> 00:07:01.624 call and send emails everywhere. 00:07:01.644 --> 00:07:03.064 I mean, it's just a totally 00:07:03.064 --> 00:07:04.154 different, totally different ballgame. 00:07:04.404 --> 00:07:06.004 So that's where that, that build 00:07:06.014 --> 00:07:07.794 audience to me, it's all about 00:07:08.094 --> 00:07:10.724 setting yourself up, uh, so that, 00:07:11.124 --> 00:07:13.344 uh, lead generation is much easier. 00:07:14.219 --> 00:07:15.399 Kevin Griffin: I used a couple of phrases 00:07:15.449 --> 00:07:18.879 and one you're going to touch on is when 00:07:18.889 --> 00:07:21.289 you get those inbound leads and coming 00:07:21.289 --> 00:07:23.339 in, I call it acting the professional. 00:07:23.979 --> 00:07:26.219 There was this point in my like 00:07:26.219 --> 00:07:28.614 consulting, freelancing, Career where 00:07:29.204 --> 00:07:30.904 I was just kind of guessing what I 00:07:30.904 --> 00:07:33.074 was doing and I would go into a coma. 00:07:33.434 --> 00:07:34.474 Well, maybe I could charge 00:07:34.474 --> 00:07:35.404 you this, this and this. 00:07:35.404 --> 00:07:36.884 And it was kind of a negotiation 00:07:36.884 --> 00:07:38.604 with myself , to figure out 00:07:38.604 --> 00:07:39.564 what I should charge someone. 00:07:39.594 --> 00:07:42.324 And then much later in my career. 00:07:42.324 --> 00:07:43.284 And it's what I do now. 00:07:43.284 --> 00:07:43.884 It's the. 00:07:44.249 --> 00:07:44.539 All right. 00:07:44.539 --> 00:07:45.639 This is how much it costs. 00:07:46.009 --> 00:07:47.389 You get X, Y, and Z. 00:07:47.709 --> 00:07:49.979 And I, it's not even an option. 00:07:50.009 --> 00:07:51.359 Like there's no negotiation. 00:07:51.649 --> 00:07:53.919 It's like this, you want to 00:07:53.919 --> 00:07:56.289 employ me for, for a project. 00:07:56.349 --> 00:07:57.449 These are the terms. 00:07:57.669 --> 00:07:58.779 It's not like I can go to 00:07:58.779 --> 00:08:00.199 Walmart and pick stuff off the 00:08:00.199 --> 00:08:02.049 shelf and go, all right, well. 00:08:02.814 --> 00:08:04.434 You're telling me it costs this 00:08:04.434 --> 00:08:07.364 much, but what if, what if I only 00:08:07.364 --> 00:08:10.734 give you this that much, um, yeah, 00:08:10.734 --> 00:08:11.994 consulting works the same way. 00:08:13.294 --> 00:08:14.534 And you're talking about the Venn diagram. 00:08:14.534 --> 00:08:15.324 I have another thing. 00:08:15.624 --> 00:08:18.834 It's a, it, if it's not 00:08:18.834 --> 00:08:20.124 a hell, yes, it's a no. 00:08:20.424 --> 00:08:23.044 . The way that I gauge a lot of things 00:08:23.044 --> 00:08:25.364 I'm working on because we just 00:08:25.364 --> 00:08:27.064 have a very fine amount of time 00:08:27.064 --> 00:08:28.984 and energy to work on projects. 00:08:29.484 --> 00:08:31.454 And I know bright feels the same way. 00:08:31.664 --> 00:08:34.984 Like if I'm going to start working 00:08:34.994 --> 00:08:36.874 on something or make a conscious 00:08:36.874 --> 00:08:38.844 effort to work on a project or 00:08:38.844 --> 00:08:41.274 initiative, it's gotta be a hell yes. 00:08:41.564 --> 00:08:43.584 If not, it's gotta be a no, because I 00:08:43.584 --> 00:08:45.304 need to keep the room open for the things 00:08:45.304 --> 00:08:47.244 I'm going to be very passionate about. 00:08:48.024 --> 00:08:49.204 Sean Merron: I had something 00:08:49.204 --> 00:08:49.984 like that recently. 00:08:49.984 --> 00:08:51.944 And, uh, Someone was asking, 00:08:52.084 --> 00:08:53.864 because I have a bunch of friends, 00:08:53.864 --> 00:08:55.244 you know, business owner, friends 00:08:55.244 --> 00:08:56.254 of people that are looking for 00:08:56.514 --> 00:08:58.024 software technology at some point. 00:08:58.024 --> 00:09:00.364 And I was asking for, for me 00:09:00.364 --> 00:09:01.434 to help build them a system. 00:09:01.524 --> 00:09:02.784 And yeah, it was like, okay, 00:09:02.784 --> 00:09:04.584 what would make this a hell? 00:09:04.584 --> 00:09:04.894 Yes. 00:09:04.894 --> 00:09:05.124 Right. 00:09:05.124 --> 00:09:05.434 Exactly. 00:09:05.434 --> 00:09:06.254 Kind of what you said there. 00:09:06.254 --> 00:09:08.344 And I was like, and you know, I 00:09:08.344 --> 00:09:09.774 was like, well, this is the number 00:09:09.774 --> 00:09:10.974 that comes to mind initially that 00:09:10.974 --> 00:09:13.974 would, that I would, make it happen. 00:09:13.994 --> 00:09:15.354 The project was exciting, but also 00:09:15.354 --> 00:09:17.434 I knew that just time wise, right. 00:09:17.814 --> 00:09:19.494 I'm fortunate enough to be at a point. 00:09:19.689 --> 00:09:22.329 You know, in my career and where I feel 00:09:22.329 --> 00:09:24.929 like, you know, I don't really have to 00:09:24.929 --> 00:09:27.189 take on some of these, you know, jobs that 00:09:27.189 --> 00:09:28.759 are kind of lower quality or trying to 00:09:28.769 --> 00:09:30.519 like bid the lowest and all that stuff. 00:09:30.569 --> 00:09:32.259 So really it's a point where, 00:09:32.549 --> 00:09:33.739 Hey, I know like I can do a 00:09:33.739 --> 00:09:35.319 better job, higher quality. 00:09:35.499 --> 00:09:37.029 I can hire someone to help me and 00:09:37.029 --> 00:09:38.359 I can really kind of manage that. 00:09:38.719 --> 00:09:39.889 Um, but here's the price. 00:09:41.359 --> 00:09:42.629 You know, and it is what it is, 00:09:42.639 --> 00:09:43.619 but I know people get sticker 00:09:43.619 --> 00:09:44.619 shock when they see that. 00:09:44.659 --> 00:09:45.949 And this person did as well. 00:09:45.949 --> 00:09:46.949 So it's I'm kind of glad 00:09:46.959 --> 00:09:47.969 they did in this case. 00:09:47.979 --> 00:09:49.009 And I didn't have to pick up that 00:09:49.009 --> 00:09:50.629 job because I know if that didn't 00:09:50.629 --> 00:09:52.379 happen, I would've got probably stuck 00:09:52.379 --> 00:09:53.399 in something that I really wouldn't 00:09:53.399 --> 00:09:54.649 have enjoyed and really wouldn't have 00:09:54.649 --> 00:09:56.489 seen the value that, I really needed 00:09:56.489 --> 00:09:57.629 in order to make that job happen. 00:10:00.499 --> 00:10:00.719 Chad Carter: Yeah. 00:10:00.719 --> 00:10:02.109 I think the key is. 00:10:02.689 --> 00:10:04.689 Being able to be at a point where, you 00:10:04.689 --> 00:10:06.319 know, you can provide the value, right? 00:10:06.319 --> 00:10:08.149 Because, if you know that you can 00:10:08.149 --> 00:10:09.539 bring in this company an extra 00:10:09.539 --> 00:10:11.759 250, 000 a year, then charge them 00:10:11.759 --> 00:10:13.799 50, 000 is a no brainer, right? 00:10:13.849 --> 00:10:15.459 Even if it's a 10 hours worth 00:10:15.459 --> 00:10:16.409 of work or something, right? 00:10:16.409 --> 00:10:17.739 So that's crazy hourly rate. 00:10:17.769 --> 00:10:19.859 It's like, it doesn't matter if you can, 00:10:19.909 --> 00:10:21.219 if you know that you can bring them in 00:10:21.219 --> 00:10:23.679 250, 000, you can easily charge them 00:10:23.879 --> 00:10:26.869 50, 000 without blinking an eye because, 00:10:27.349 --> 00:10:29.949 you know, the amount of value they get. 00:10:30.214 --> 00:10:31.954 Is extraordinary, especially if 00:10:31.954 --> 00:10:33.454 you can work it out where they 00:10:33.454 --> 00:10:34.684 don't have to pay once they get 00:10:34.684 --> 00:10:36.004 their first 50, 000 or whatever. 00:10:36.004 --> 00:10:37.774 Like when you're confident and what 00:10:37.774 --> 00:10:39.074 you can provide and you can provide 00:10:39.074 --> 00:10:40.504 that type of value, you can charge. 00:10:40.929 --> 00:10:42.599 Uh, really high rates, even when 00:10:42.599 --> 00:10:43.799 somebody else's would charge, you 00:10:43.799 --> 00:10:46.239 know, a hundred bucks an hour and, 00:10:46.239 --> 00:10:47.999 uh, you know, charge them basically 00:10:47.999 --> 00:10:49.159 a thousand dollars for that. 00:10:49.159 --> 00:10:50.259 You're charging 50, 000. 00:10:50.259 --> 00:10:50.839 It's like, well, that's 50 00:10:50.839 --> 00:10:52.049 times what the normal radius. 00:10:52.349 --> 00:10:53.759 Well, yeah, but I can guarantee that 00:10:53.759 --> 00:10:54.969 you're getting, you know, pretty 00:10:54.969 --> 00:10:56.899 much five times the amount of what, 00:10:56.979 --> 00:10:58.579 of what I'm, you know, charging her. 00:10:58.579 --> 00:11:00.549 So it's all about figuring 00:11:00.549 --> 00:11:02.189 out what you can provide and 00:11:02.189 --> 00:11:03.399 the value you can stack on. 00:11:04.089 --> 00:11:05.289 I've heard before, and I think 00:11:05.289 --> 00:11:06.959 it's really valuable is you 00:11:06.959 --> 00:11:08.269 don't decrease your prices. 00:11:08.739 --> 00:11:10.539 You increase the value, right? 00:11:10.639 --> 00:11:12.819 Instead of saying that I'm negotiating on 00:11:12.819 --> 00:11:14.199 my price, Oh, you're a hundred dollars. 00:11:14.219 --> 00:11:15.909 Now I need you to really be 85 an hour. 00:11:15.909 --> 00:11:17.309 It's like, no, I can't do 85. 00:11:17.319 --> 00:11:18.719 Now I can't do 95 an hour, a hundred 00:11:18.719 --> 00:11:19.849 dollars an hour or 200 an hour. 00:11:19.859 --> 00:11:20.609 What was the number? 00:11:20.609 --> 00:11:21.019 It's right. 00:11:21.489 --> 00:11:23.189 And it's like, well, if you're trying 00:11:23.189 --> 00:11:24.429 to negotiate on that, it's like, no, 00:11:24.739 --> 00:11:26.849 but this is what I will do for that. 00:11:26.849 --> 00:11:28.029 And again, in general, it's 00:11:28.029 --> 00:11:29.539 a bad idea just for folks 00:11:29.539 --> 00:11:31.229 listening to charge per hour. 00:11:31.394 --> 00:11:33.594 So you want to charge per hour per value, 00:11:33.834 --> 00:11:35.664 uh, and not actually do the, do the 00:11:35.664 --> 00:11:37.414 hourly thing, because it's very difficult. 00:11:37.414 --> 00:11:38.504 Cause at that point, as soon as you 00:11:38.504 --> 00:11:39.874 started going down that path of charge 00:11:39.874 --> 00:11:41.244 per hour, you are the commodity. 00:11:41.754 --> 00:11:43.854 And then I can go and get, and get Sean 00:11:43.854 --> 00:11:46.244 for 95 and Kevin for about, and actually 00:11:46.244 --> 00:11:47.994 you can't obviously, but the whole point 00:11:47.994 --> 00:11:49.334 is you can, you can go get somebody 00:11:49.334 --> 00:11:50.594 else for just a little bit, a little 00:11:50.594 --> 00:11:51.704 bit less if you're at the commodity. 00:11:51.804 --> 00:11:52.644 So you don't price 00:11:52.644 --> 00:11:53.424 yourself as a commodity. 00:11:54.389 --> 00:11:54.909 Sean Merron: And I think a lot 00:11:54.909 --> 00:11:57.449 of times, like I can see it where 00:11:57.569 --> 00:11:58.879 problems are presented to me. 00:11:58.969 --> 00:11:59.989 And I guess my thought. 00:12:00.229 --> 00:12:01.309 Or my brain goes to 00:12:01.319 --> 00:12:02.439 like opportunity costs. 00:12:02.439 --> 00:12:03.299 When I talked to a lot of business 00:12:03.299 --> 00:12:05.049 owners, they see it as, Hey, I'm 00:12:05.049 --> 00:12:06.719 spending 20 hours a week in this, you 00:12:06.719 --> 00:12:08.349 know, and yeah, they could value their 00:12:08.349 --> 00:12:10.379 time to see how much it would be worth 00:12:10.459 --> 00:12:12.089 to, or how long it would really take. 00:12:12.489 --> 00:12:13.569 As I get more into private equity, 00:12:13.569 --> 00:12:14.269 actually, this is something I 00:12:14.289 --> 00:12:16.299 think about more is like, how long 00:12:16.299 --> 00:12:17.829 would it take for me to regain my 00:12:17.829 --> 00:12:19.529 investment, to make my money back? 00:12:19.569 --> 00:12:19.959 Right. 00:12:20.029 --> 00:12:22.199 Um, that's a, always a good thing to think 00:12:22.209 --> 00:12:23.939 about when you're going to make a purchase 00:12:23.939 --> 00:12:25.919 or an expense or build something, not only 00:12:25.919 --> 00:12:27.109 how much time it's going to save you, but 00:12:27.359 --> 00:12:28.329 how long it's going to take to get back. 00:12:28.519 --> 00:12:30.039 Also, now that I have this time back. 00:12:30.244 --> 00:12:31.514 In addition, now, what 00:12:31.514 --> 00:12:32.884 new value can I create? 00:12:32.914 --> 00:12:35.484 And that, that kind of shifts me in 00:12:35.484 --> 00:12:36.624 a direction I want to talk about a 00:12:36.624 --> 00:12:37.664 little bit, which is the more of the 00:12:37.664 --> 00:12:40.264 like strategical prioritization stuff. 00:12:41.454 --> 00:12:43.194 Cause this has been, so he talked 00:12:43.194 --> 00:12:44.174 a lot about time management. 00:12:44.254 --> 00:12:45.634 One of the things I kind of saw Brett 00:12:45.644 --> 00:12:47.384 evolving into, honestly, as I heard 00:12:47.384 --> 00:12:49.594 him talk was like from small consultant 00:12:49.604 --> 00:12:51.334 shop or, you know, individual really 00:12:51.344 --> 00:12:52.914 right into now he's kind of growing 00:12:52.914 --> 00:12:54.454 back into, Hey, I have a team. 00:12:54.879 --> 00:12:55.949 And I need to make sure that whole team's 00:12:55.949 --> 00:12:57.699 aligned on the right priorities, you 00:12:57.699 --> 00:12:59.199 know, going after the right objectives, 00:12:59.199 --> 00:13:00.549 doing the right thing for the week. 00:13:00.569 --> 00:13:01.769 He said something like this is 00:13:01.769 --> 00:13:03.039 the big goal of the week, right? 00:13:03.069 --> 00:13:04.299 That's what, where's he's 00:13:04.299 --> 00:13:05.259 kind of at right now. 00:13:05.529 --> 00:13:07.159 I kind of see him actually evolving more 00:13:07.159 --> 00:13:09.439 into that strategical, like running 00:13:09.439 --> 00:13:11.199 a whole, you know, a bigger company 00:13:11.199 --> 00:13:13.239 kind of, kind of transitional phase. 00:13:13.659 --> 00:13:16.459 Um, and I've been in large corporations, 00:13:16.459 --> 00:13:17.709 I've been in small companies. 00:13:17.809 --> 00:13:19.749 A lot of the time what happens is. 00:13:20.019 --> 00:13:20.819 And I'm, you know, more 00:13:20.819 --> 00:13:22.929 and more is just aligning. 00:13:22.949 --> 00:13:24.199 You're trying to get alignment across the 00:13:24.199 --> 00:13:26.169 board constantly on the right priorities, 00:13:26.169 --> 00:13:27.289 the right things we should be doing. 00:13:27.719 --> 00:13:28.849 Like I have engineers 00:13:28.859 --> 00:13:30.079 that can do great work. 00:13:30.089 --> 00:13:31.749 They can, you know, I can coach them. 00:13:31.749 --> 00:13:32.659 I can build an awesome 00:13:32.659 --> 00:13:33.979 engineering department that can, 00:13:34.359 --> 00:13:36.029 um, you know, deliver stuff. 00:13:36.059 --> 00:13:37.069 But the question is always, are 00:13:37.069 --> 00:13:38.219 they delivering the right stuff? 00:13:38.299 --> 00:13:38.609 Right. 00:13:38.689 --> 00:13:41.619 And, um, you've heard the whole, or you 00:13:41.619 --> 00:13:43.589 maybe haven't heard, um, but there was. 00:13:43.884 --> 00:13:45.314 You know, a book in the past, I think 00:13:45.324 --> 00:13:46.594 Kevin may have introduced it to me, 00:13:46.594 --> 00:13:48.704 or maybe you, Chad, about putting 00:13:48.704 --> 00:13:49.794 the important before the urgent. 00:13:49.814 --> 00:13:50.164 Right. 00:13:50.274 --> 00:13:52.784 Um, and ensuring that every 00:13:52.784 --> 00:13:54.234 way or every week, right. 00:13:54.234 --> 00:13:55.444 Every day, almost that you're 00:13:55.454 --> 00:13:56.974 chipping away at the important stuff. 00:13:57.064 --> 00:13:59.104 So I know me personally, like, 00:13:59.104 --> 00:13:59.934 I want to walk away at the 00:13:59.934 --> 00:14:00.984 end of the day, feeling like. 00:14:01.329 --> 00:14:02.339 I was pretty productive. 00:14:02.339 --> 00:14:02.509 Right. 00:14:02.509 --> 00:14:04.449 I hit, I hit something that helped 00:14:04.449 --> 00:14:05.889 achieve that big priority that 00:14:05.889 --> 00:14:07.769 I know I need to work towards. 00:14:07.779 --> 00:14:09.329 So in the morning, the first thing 00:14:09.329 --> 00:14:10.279 I always do is like, I'm going to 00:14:10.279 --> 00:14:12.149 go for the one big rock every day. 00:14:12.199 --> 00:14:13.209 Like, that's my focus, 00:14:13.229 --> 00:14:14.529 like do a big rock first. 00:14:14.529 --> 00:14:14.839 Right. 00:14:15.399 --> 00:14:17.129 And then maybe the other stuff that comes 00:14:17.129 --> 00:14:18.289 up throughout the day, I'll chip away at. 00:14:20.004 --> 00:14:20.964 Kevin Griffin: I know for me. 00:14:21.044 --> 00:14:23.834 It's, uh, the, the type of work I'm 00:14:23.834 --> 00:14:27.054 doing right now, full time at the end of 00:14:27.054 --> 00:14:28.724 the week, it's Friday and I'll go, all 00:14:28.724 --> 00:14:30.414 right, what did I accomplish this week? 00:14:30.454 --> 00:14:33.924 And some weeks it feels like I did 00:14:33.934 --> 00:14:36.684 nothing because there's no tangible 00:14:36.714 --> 00:14:38.944 thing that I accomplished, but. 00:14:39.184 --> 00:14:43.324 I put out 20 fires and I helped 00:14:43.654 --> 00:14:45.674 other members of my team get on tasks 00:14:45.694 --> 00:14:47.134 so they can get their work done. 00:14:47.594 --> 00:14:50.074 it's the worst feeling in the 00:14:50.074 --> 00:14:51.494 world to get to the end of the 00:14:51.494 --> 00:14:54.074 day on Friday and realize I don't 00:14:54.164 --> 00:14:55.564 feel like I accomplished anything. 00:14:55.564 --> 00:14:57.624 This was a week, this was a wasted week. 00:14:58.024 --> 00:15:00.324 What, what am I going to do with myself? 00:15:00.344 --> 00:15:02.124 All right, I'll just start fresh on Monday 00:15:02.124 --> 00:15:03.804 and it turns out it's the same thing. 00:15:04.194 --> 00:15:07.149 Um, I could really learn from that. 00:15:07.249 --> 00:15:08.709 You know, there's one big task that 00:15:08.709 --> 00:15:10.649 needs to get accomplished every 00:15:10.649 --> 00:15:12.499 week, and there's nothing to say. 00:15:12.499 --> 00:15:14.049 And if you get it done on Monday, 00:15:14.049 --> 00:15:15.509 you can't have another big task. 00:15:15.539 --> 00:15:16.619 You try to get done that week. 00:15:19.989 --> 00:15:20.949 Chad Carter: Yeah, something 00:15:20.949 --> 00:15:22.749 I've seen around this. 00:15:22.749 --> 00:15:25.209 I really like a lot is, um, three, three 00:15:25.209 --> 00:15:27.809 tasks a week again, but they all support 00:15:27.809 --> 00:15:29.439 the big thing, whatever the big thing is. 00:15:29.619 --> 00:15:31.059 And then you take those three tasks. 00:15:31.059 --> 00:15:32.249 If you can figure out how to break 00:15:32.249 --> 00:15:33.719 those down to three things, you got to 00:15:33.759 --> 00:15:35.619 get done that day in order to get those 00:15:35.689 --> 00:15:37.419 three big things done for the week. 00:15:37.419 --> 00:15:39.259 That also hits your main goal. 00:15:39.479 --> 00:15:41.614 Then that's a great way to again, Some 00:15:41.634 --> 00:15:43.784 that gets more into almost trying to 00:15:43.784 --> 00:15:45.884 fine tune your daily calendar, you 00:15:45.884 --> 00:15:47.354 know, though, and sound like Brett, 00:15:47.534 --> 00:15:49.194 that's not really his, his gig. 00:15:49.194 --> 00:15:50.064 And that's fine. 00:15:50.414 --> 00:15:52.154 Um, he, he mentioned something about 00:15:52.154 --> 00:15:54.724 the Pomodoro technique, uh, on this and 00:15:54.724 --> 00:15:56.114 he, how he kind of shies away from it. 00:15:56.364 --> 00:15:57.124 And I'm kind of the same way 00:15:57.174 --> 00:15:58.584 I used to really enjoy the 00:15:58.584 --> 00:16:00.114 Pomodoro technique, but the 20. 00:16:00.379 --> 00:16:02.389 25 minutes was just, it was too short. 00:16:02.579 --> 00:16:03.319 So I pretty much did like 00:16:03.319 --> 00:16:04.469 three in a, three in a row. 00:16:04.809 --> 00:16:06.019 And, uh, you know, it went like an 00:16:06.019 --> 00:16:06.939 hour and a half and then, you know, 00:16:06.939 --> 00:16:07.979 took a 15 minute break and that 00:16:08.399 --> 00:16:09.449 seemed to work out better for me. 00:16:09.899 --> 00:16:11.179 Uh, but then all of a sudden it 00:16:11.179 --> 00:16:12.999 was just, I don't know, I, I kind 00:16:12.999 --> 00:16:14.529 of got out of, out of doing that. 00:16:14.529 --> 00:16:16.889 And I didn't, it was kind of a neat 00:16:17.049 --> 00:16:18.769 thing, but it really didn't seem to 00:16:18.769 --> 00:16:20.709 provide a ton of value to me personally. 00:16:20.709 --> 00:16:21.509 So it's just interesting. 00:16:21.509 --> 00:16:24.329 I, I definitely think I found myself 00:16:24.399 --> 00:16:26.539 getting into weeds on what this is, 00:16:26.689 --> 00:16:28.329 this, my block a day in my block a day. 00:16:28.969 --> 00:16:29.699 And to your point, Kevin, 00:16:29.699 --> 00:16:30.299 when something gets. 00:16:30.899 --> 00:16:32.879 You have a fire or something happens 00:16:33.189 --> 00:16:34.319 and you feel like the whole day's 00:16:34.329 --> 00:16:35.479 blown down because, or, you know, 00:16:35.489 --> 00:16:36.549 whatever, instead of just like, well, 00:16:36.549 --> 00:16:38.259 no, I'm not going to, I'm not going 00:16:38.259 --> 00:16:40.689 to pack my entire day with this. 00:16:40.889 --> 00:16:41.709 I'm going to have margin. 00:16:42.164 --> 00:16:42.984 This is why I'm trying to 00:16:42.984 --> 00:16:44.594 get done this week, period. 00:16:44.834 --> 00:16:46.174 And as long as you're disciplined enough 00:16:46.174 --> 00:16:47.794 to actually start working on a Monday and 00:16:47.794 --> 00:16:49.354 not leave it till Friday, you're good. 00:16:49.514 --> 00:16:50.194 And if you don't have enough 00:16:50.194 --> 00:16:51.384 discipline to do that, then you 00:16:51.384 --> 00:16:52.524 need to work on, on that part. 00:16:53.709 --> 00:16:54.889 Sean Merron: I like, I like something 00:16:54.939 --> 00:16:56.259 I think Kevin, you've also said in the 00:16:56.259 --> 00:16:58.809 past, um, making time to work on the 00:16:58.809 --> 00:17:00.259 business instead of in the business. 00:17:00.369 --> 00:17:01.789 And really I can see that 00:17:01.879 --> 00:17:03.609 more as the strategical stuff 00:17:03.619 --> 00:17:04.979 versus the tactical stuff. 00:17:05.519 --> 00:17:06.529 That's again, corporate talk. 00:17:06.799 --> 00:17:07.849 Even when you're just starting 00:17:07.849 --> 00:17:08.949 out, it's like that, you know, 00:17:08.989 --> 00:17:10.169 I, I remember Kevin, we had the 00:17:10.169 --> 00:17:11.489 two frugal dudes podcast, right? 00:17:11.519 --> 00:17:13.199 Like we constantly, I 00:17:13.209 --> 00:17:14.119 had to think about, okay. 00:17:14.654 --> 00:17:16.554 Is it really worth like building some 00:17:16.554 --> 00:17:18.344 images to go put on Twitter, right. 00:17:18.344 --> 00:17:19.474 And like, you know, spend my 00:17:19.474 --> 00:17:21.694 time, you know, the little 00:17:21.694 --> 00:17:22.874 extra time I had every week. 00:17:22.874 --> 00:17:23.834 Is it, you know, is it 00:17:23.884 --> 00:17:25.204 building little tweets, right. 00:17:25.214 --> 00:17:26.454 That we can automatically schedule 00:17:26.454 --> 00:17:27.704 and ship and ship out, right. 00:17:27.744 --> 00:17:30.814 Or is it better spent, you know, going to. 00:17:31.219 --> 00:17:33.619 Network and, you know, uh, build some 00:17:33.739 --> 00:17:34.979 relationship with someone that we 00:17:34.979 --> 00:17:36.149 want to have on our podcast, right? 00:17:36.429 --> 00:17:38.299 It's all about, it's all about trade offs. 00:17:38.419 --> 00:17:39.369 Everything's about trade offs. 00:17:39.409 --> 00:17:40.319 I mean, think of software 00:17:40.319 --> 00:17:41.399 architecture is about trade off 00:17:41.409 --> 00:17:42.879 system designs about trade off, right? 00:17:43.279 --> 00:17:43.859 I mean, that's all it is. 00:17:43.859 --> 00:17:45.689 And then same with priorities as well. 00:17:45.709 --> 00:17:46.559 I mean, you know, when you're trying 00:17:46.559 --> 00:17:47.629 to think about how to spend your time, 00:17:47.629 --> 00:17:49.059 especially in the beginning, right? 00:17:49.509 --> 00:17:50.849 Like, you know. 00:17:51.244 --> 00:17:52.214 What, what is the right 00:17:52.214 --> 00:17:53.184 marketing channel, right? 00:17:53.194 --> 00:17:54.584 Are we going to use YouTube 00:17:54.624 --> 00:17:56.384 Instagram, you know, uh, Twitter. 00:17:56.394 --> 00:17:57.814 Of course you want to use it all, but 00:17:57.814 --> 00:17:59.954 where's the most value, um, you know, 00:18:00.024 --> 00:18:01.484 spent where, where should we target? 00:18:02.119 --> 00:18:03.489 Kevin Griffin: It's looking at any 00:18:03.489 --> 00:18:05.749 particular task and asking yourself, is 00:18:05.749 --> 00:18:07.489 this something that requires me to do it? 00:18:07.969 --> 00:18:09.269 Like with two frugal dudes, we 00:18:09.269 --> 00:18:10.829 didn't do a lot of our own social. 00:18:11.159 --> 00:18:13.339 we had Nikita who did the social for 00:18:13.339 --> 00:18:18.559 us and, uh, the real core benefit 00:18:18.599 --> 00:18:20.369 we brought to the business was. 00:18:20.789 --> 00:18:22.089 Being the face of the business 00:18:22.089 --> 00:18:23.369 and interacting with the folks 00:18:23.369 --> 00:18:25.169 and doing the networking, , but 00:18:25.269 --> 00:18:26.509 I don't need to do social media. 00:18:26.509 --> 00:18:28.089 You didn't need to do social media. 00:18:28.449 --> 00:18:31.399 Um, and I know what bread like a lot 00:18:31.399 --> 00:18:32.939 of stuff he does and he has his team 00:18:32.939 --> 00:18:34.729 for he's asked himself that question. 00:18:34.739 --> 00:18:36.929 Do I need to do the editing on the videos? 00:18:36.949 --> 00:18:38.269 And the answer is no, you 00:18:38.269 --> 00:18:40.039 can pay an editor to do the 00:18:40.039 --> 00:18:41.289 editing on the videos for you. 00:18:44.094 --> 00:18:45.944 So I probably didn't really allude 00:18:45.944 --> 00:18:48.084 to this to the audience or in the 00:18:48.094 --> 00:18:49.814 interview, but I have a very long 00:18:49.814 --> 00:18:52.624 history with Brett and Brett and I 00:18:52.634 --> 00:18:56.454 have known each other for way too long. 00:18:56.474 --> 00:19:01.034 And so I knew Brett in the first, 00:19:01.974 --> 00:19:03.674 technically the second job I had out 00:19:03.674 --> 00:19:07.304 of college and, worked under him. 00:19:07.314 --> 00:19:09.304 He was kind of a mentor to me as when 00:19:09.304 --> 00:19:11.054 I was a young kind of technologist 00:19:11.054 --> 00:19:12.284 figuring out what I wanted to do. 00:19:12.664 --> 00:19:14.274 And we just stayed friends since. 00:19:14.579 --> 00:19:16.709 And a part of that journey 00:19:16.709 --> 00:19:18.689 was we, we formed a business. 00:19:18.989 --> 00:19:22.059 So, and Brett did not talk about 00:19:22.059 --> 00:19:24.049 it at all during the interview. 00:19:24.089 --> 00:19:24.959 And it was a little 00:19:24.959 --> 00:19:26.399 business called wind sitter. 00:19:26.889 --> 00:19:30.569 we would develop basically monitoring 00:19:30.579 --> 00:19:32.019 software for windows servers. 00:19:32.039 --> 00:19:34.129 Cause it sounds really boring and 00:19:34.129 --> 00:19:36.129 we didn't execute on it the way 00:19:36.129 --> 00:19:37.959 that we probably should have, but 00:19:37.989 --> 00:19:40.429 we had wanted wind sitter to be. 00:19:40.664 --> 00:19:42.994 That thing that we still do our full time 00:19:42.994 --> 00:19:45.494 job and then we have this thing on the 00:19:45.494 --> 00:19:47.274 side that we're working towards and we 00:19:47.274 --> 00:19:49.764 worked and we worked and we worked and we 00:19:49.764 --> 00:19:53.874 worked on it and I think it's an important 00:19:53.874 --> 00:19:56.614 thing to talk about Windsor was a failure. 00:19:56.624 --> 00:19:59.594 It's went 3 years and eventually, 00:19:59.774 --> 00:20:02.444 uh, Brett and I had a conversation. 00:20:02.544 --> 00:20:03.334 Is this worth? 00:20:03.969 --> 00:20:05.229 To keep going with. 00:20:06.269 --> 00:20:08.219 And the answer was no. 00:20:08.219 --> 00:20:10.679 So we took the little bit of money 00:20:10.679 --> 00:20:12.869 that we made on the business. 00:20:12.869 --> 00:20:15.179 We paid off the server bills that we had. 00:20:15.189 --> 00:20:16.619 And I think we went out to a nice 00:20:16.619 --> 00:20:19.049 dinner and that was the extent 00:20:19.049 --> 00:20:20.514 of what we made on Windsitter. 00:20:21.314 --> 00:20:23.234 I've had this unique opportunity with 00:20:23.244 --> 00:20:26.614 Brett to kind of be side saddle with them 00:20:26.944 --> 00:20:29.014 on a lot of the initiatives he started. 00:20:29.234 --> 00:20:30.854 It's really nice now to 00:20:30.854 --> 00:20:33.484 see him finding success in 00:20:33.484 --> 00:20:34.854 something that works really well. 00:20:35.034 --> 00:20:36.294 I wanted Windsor to 00:20:36.294 --> 00:20:37.874 work, but things happen. 00:20:37.924 --> 00:20:40.784 We learned a lot along the way, and I 00:20:40.784 --> 00:20:44.474 think in the footnote of his current 00:20:44.484 --> 00:20:47.154 business is actually Windsor because 00:20:47.314 --> 00:20:49.704 his docker training that he's doing 00:20:50.434 --> 00:20:52.814 now the work he's doing with Maven that 00:20:52.874 --> 00:20:55.904 all stemmed from him trying to figure 00:20:55.904 --> 00:20:59.454 out how to deploy no JS consistently. 00:21:00.039 --> 00:21:02.189 In our production environments, we can 00:21:02.189 --> 00:21:03.829 see where he is today, but it really 00:21:03.829 --> 00:21:05.089 all started with Windsitter because 00:21:05.089 --> 00:21:06.919 he picked up Docker as a solution to 00:21:06.919 --> 00:21:09.169 a very particular problem that we had. 00:21:09.659 --> 00:21:11.809 I'm super happy with where he is. 00:21:12.834 --> 00:21:13.774 Chad Carter: Yeah, I think, 00:21:13.984 --> 00:21:15.124 I think the key, what you 00:21:15.124 --> 00:21:16.124 just said there is fantastic. 00:21:16.154 --> 00:21:17.564 It's, it's a matter of, okay, yeah. 00:21:17.724 --> 00:21:19.374 Winsitter was quote, unquote, a failure. 00:21:19.574 --> 00:21:21.124 And actually the fact that you were able 00:21:21.124 --> 00:21:24.224 to go to a nice dinner after a few years, 00:21:24.224 --> 00:21:25.944 like you didn't go in debt for it, right? 00:21:26.174 --> 00:21:27.234 I mean, you know, it's coming 00:21:27.234 --> 00:21:28.314 from, yeah, there you go. 00:21:28.314 --> 00:21:29.724 So, so from that perspective, it wasn't 00:21:29.724 --> 00:21:31.684 actually a failure, but the key is, 00:21:31.724 --> 00:21:34.124 even if it was, the point is what 00:21:34.124 --> 00:21:35.774 you learned during those three years. 00:21:36.169 --> 00:21:38.529 And that, that's kind of the 00:21:38.529 --> 00:21:39.719 main thing in all this stuff. 00:21:39.719 --> 00:21:41.529 So that's why I can jump back 00:21:41.529 --> 00:21:42.609 to the Venn diagram real quick. 00:21:43.049 --> 00:21:44.629 That whole, it has to energize you. 00:21:44.749 --> 00:21:46.119 It can't drain your energy. 00:21:46.439 --> 00:21:48.269 It's so important because 00:21:48.869 --> 00:21:49.729 it's all about the journey. 00:21:49.729 --> 00:21:50.489 It's all about what you're 00:21:50.489 --> 00:21:51.239 learning through this 00:21:51.239 --> 00:21:52.699 progress, through the process. 00:21:53.349 --> 00:21:53.679 Okay. 00:21:53.819 --> 00:21:54.659 He had, what'd he say? 00:21:54.679 --> 00:21:57.089 Six or seven businesses over the 20 years. 00:21:57.409 --> 00:21:58.969 Uh, and, and, and most 00:21:58.969 --> 00:21:59.839 of them didn't work out. 00:21:59.879 --> 00:22:01.039 This is the latest one is, 00:22:01.059 --> 00:22:02.109 was working out well for him. 00:22:02.109 --> 00:22:02.359 Right. 00:22:02.689 --> 00:22:04.579 And that's, you know, uh, between 00:22:04.579 --> 00:22:06.039 us, we have the same, same situation. 00:22:06.269 --> 00:22:07.519 So the key is getting started 00:22:07.539 --> 00:22:09.429 sooner rather than later. 00:22:09.699 --> 00:22:10.989 Uh, so the sooner you get started, 00:22:10.989 --> 00:22:11.749 the sooner you get some of these 00:22:11.749 --> 00:22:12.859 failures, but again, don't, you 00:22:12.859 --> 00:22:14.489 can't look at them as failures and 00:22:14.489 --> 00:22:15.719 definitely don't look at it like, Oh, 00:22:15.769 --> 00:22:17.359 this failed, therefore I'm a failure. 00:22:17.659 --> 00:22:19.039 Uh, that messes up your mind. 00:22:19.039 --> 00:22:19.919 You can't, you can't get into it. 00:22:20.054 --> 00:22:21.434 Can't get into that, into that, 00:22:21.454 --> 00:22:23.114 uh, pathway and I've been there, 00:22:23.204 --> 00:22:24.614 uh, once it's kind of, kind of 00:22:24.684 --> 00:22:26.074 drummed down for about 18 months. 00:22:26.074 --> 00:22:26.704 I was just, you know, it's 00:22:26.704 --> 00:22:28.014 like, well, I'm just out. 00:22:28.024 --> 00:22:29.734 I'm just not, you know, just because 00:22:29.744 --> 00:22:31.934 it actually came down to, uh, my 00:22:31.934 --> 00:22:33.244 mindset of saying, well, this thing 00:22:33.244 --> 00:22:34.214 failed, therefore I'm a failure. 00:22:34.304 --> 00:22:35.654 I'm not going to do anything else. 00:22:35.844 --> 00:22:36.744 It took me a while to kind of 00:22:36.784 --> 00:22:38.394 come out of, uh, come out of that. 00:22:38.394 --> 00:22:41.294 But the, the key is if I hadn't lost 00:22:41.294 --> 00:22:43.464 those 18 months, I've been further, you 00:22:43.464 --> 00:22:45.004 know, further down the road than I am now. 00:22:45.764 --> 00:22:47.604 The key that I've realized since 00:22:47.604 --> 00:22:49.274 then is it is about the journey. 00:22:49.634 --> 00:22:50.794 Uh, it's about what 00:22:50.794 --> 00:22:51.574 you're learning as you go. 00:22:51.574 --> 00:22:52.554 So even if something is quote 00:22:52.554 --> 00:22:53.784 unquote a failure, it's okay. 00:22:53.814 --> 00:22:55.194 Cause that, the time that you 00:22:55.194 --> 00:22:56.904 spent there wasn't for nothing. 00:22:56.974 --> 00:22:58.344 You've actually learned what not 00:22:58.344 --> 00:22:59.684 to do at least one thing not to do, 00:22:59.734 --> 00:23:00.964 if not a bunch of different things. 00:23:01.509 --> 00:23:02.119 Sean Merron: Yeah, and you've probably 00:23:02.129 --> 00:23:05.039 heard the famous saying many times, right? 00:23:05.139 --> 00:23:06.819 You don't win or fail. 00:23:06.819 --> 00:23:07.759 You win or. 00:23:08.814 --> 00:23:09.744 Learn, right? 00:23:10.214 --> 00:23:11.114 I remember the first time someone said 00:23:11.114 --> 00:23:11.934 that, I don't know why I never thought of 00:23:11.934 --> 00:23:13.414 it like that, but it really is the truth. 00:23:13.414 --> 00:23:14.484 I mean, that's the living example 00:23:14.484 --> 00:23:15.374 right there with Kevin, right? 00:23:15.384 --> 00:23:16.564 Like, you know, you don't, 00:23:16.994 --> 00:23:18.464 the word fails pretty rough. 00:23:18.464 --> 00:23:19.764 It's always just an opportunity. 00:23:19.764 --> 00:23:20.964 It's teaching you something 00:23:20.964 --> 00:23:22.149 and you have to try and. 00:23:22.579 --> 00:23:23.839 Like kind of reflect, right. 00:23:23.879 --> 00:23:26.019 Like on that, what you did and like, 00:23:26.079 --> 00:23:27.489 get the lesson out of it every time. 00:23:27.719 --> 00:23:28.819 What did I learn through that? 00:23:29.229 --> 00:23:30.449 What actually was the benefit? 00:23:30.449 --> 00:23:32.019 Cause there was some, there always is. 00:23:32.509 --> 00:23:33.419 And it's going to ultimately 00:23:33.419 --> 00:23:34.879 mold you into the next step 00:23:34.959 --> 00:23:36.239 that you have on your journey. 00:23:36.339 --> 00:23:37.079 Kevin Griffin: All right, guys, 00:23:37.169 --> 00:23:38.679 that was a fun conversation. 00:23:39.019 --> 00:23:40.689 I appreciate you hanging out with me 00:23:40.689 --> 00:23:42.679 and discussing some of the finer points. 00:23:43.529 --> 00:23:44.269 Thank you to the audience 00:23:44.269 --> 00:23:45.489 for hanging out with us too. 00:23:45.509 --> 00:23:47.779 And we'll see you next time 00:23:47.989 --> 00:23:49.429 for another episode of the 00:23:49.429 --> 00:23:50.699 multi threaded income podcast.