WEBVTT NOTE This file was generated by Descript 00:00:59.782 --> 00:01:02.112 Duke: All right, Corey, what are we talking about today? 00:01:02.512 --> 00:01:06.812 CJ: And today Duke, we're talking about moving from abstraction to action. 00:01:07.557 --> 00:01:10.587 Duke: This is one that's been driving me mad all week. 00:01:10.587 --> 00:01:13.154 And so in the green room, we managed to put a name to it. 00:01:13.504 --> 00:01:15.593 , moving from abstraction to action. 00:01:15.594 --> 00:01:16.984 What do we mean by that? 00:01:17.799 --> 00:01:21.226 CJ: For me, it's, those situations when you sit down with the business 00:01:21.326 --> 00:01:25.206 and sometimes I define the business as it leadership too, right? 00:01:25.206 --> 00:01:29.176 Like that level that's abstracted, from the day to day and the technical, 00:01:29.193 --> 00:01:31.023 actual know how decision making. 00:01:31.303 --> 00:01:36.473 But knows like the ultimate, destination of the product platform, et cetera. 00:01:36.473 --> 00:01:40.413 , so it's when you sit down with folks like that and they give you an idea 00:01:40.413 --> 00:01:44.513 of, okay, so this is what we want to see, or these are the problems that 00:01:44.513 --> 00:01:47.420 we're hearing, And then fix it, please. 00:01:48.420 --> 00:01:48.560 Duke: Right. 00:01:48.720 --> 00:01:52.900 For me, , the customers don't necessarily. 00:01:53.315 --> 00:01:57.345 Know how to ask for what they need. 00:01:57.820 --> 00:01:58.250 CJ: Yeah. 00:01:58.345 --> 00:02:02.845 Duke: They have a feeling, a strong feeling, probably even backed up by 00:02:02.845 --> 00:02:06.085 numbers or evidence or testimony. 00:02:06.195 --> 00:02:10.255 but they have a feeling that something is just jacked up and they want. 00:02:10.920 --> 00:02:14.580 A solution, and because they're in leadership positions, they'll probably do 00:02:14.580 --> 00:02:16.990 their best to articulate what they want. 00:02:17.250 --> 00:02:17.620 Okay. 00:02:17.820 --> 00:02:21.400 And I think 1 of the defining characteristics that 00:02:21.472 --> 00:02:23.612 takes a adequate service. 00:02:23.612 --> 00:02:28.150 Now, resource to a player in the game is the ability. 00:02:28.545 --> 00:02:33.785 To be comfortable in that abstract space, gradually guiding the 00:02:33.785 --> 00:02:34.845 customer to something specific 00:02:35.176 --> 00:02:36.066 Ourselves on the back there. 00:02:36.096 --> 00:02:36.846 Oh, yeah, 00:02:39.706 --> 00:02:40.076 good. 00:02:40.476 --> 00:02:40.826 CJ: right? 00:02:41.241 --> 00:02:43.586 duke, is that, level that takes you to a player in the game, right? 00:02:43.586 --> 00:02:45.926 Gives you, a seat at the table, chip in the game, however 00:02:45.926 --> 00:02:46.886 you wanna look at it, right? 00:02:47.066 --> 00:02:49.976 When you can sit down and these con have these conversations with folks who are 00:02:49.976 --> 00:02:51.536 only vaguely describing what they want. 00:02:52.157 --> 00:02:55.497 And really be able to understand that, distill it down into something 00:02:55.497 --> 00:02:57.477 that's technically actionable. 00:02:57.631 --> 00:03:01.097 And then provide that to, folks who can actually, you know, like 00:03:01.097 --> 00:03:04.667 the tech, a lot of actually is in there, man, but it's provided to 00:03:04.667 --> 00:03:06.137 folks who can actually do the work. 00:03:06.367 --> 00:03:09.557 . I think that is a skillset that is rare. 00:03:09.787 --> 00:03:14.087 . So many people are just used to popping into, Agile or scrum or whatever the 00:03:14.087 --> 00:03:17.937 heck the module name is looking, grabbing the stories that are assigned to them. 00:03:17.937 --> 00:03:19.857 And then just going ahead and building them out. 00:03:19.987 --> 00:03:23.127 . And then reviewing them against the story requirements, but that 00:03:23.137 --> 00:03:25.087 worked had to get in there some way. 00:03:25.337 --> 00:03:25.777 Right. 00:03:25.907 --> 00:03:26.327 Duke: Yeah. 00:03:26.417 --> 00:03:26.827 Yeah. 00:03:26.887 --> 00:03:28.587 And I can't say this enough. 00:03:28.607 --> 00:03:30.547 The people who are buying. 00:03:30.613 --> 00:03:33.176 The, the process module and service. 00:03:33.206 --> 00:03:35.086 Now, the technology and service. 00:03:35.106 --> 00:03:36.956 Now, they don't know how to deploy it. 00:03:37.961 --> 00:03:38.661 CJ: Yeah. 00:03:38.766 --> 00:03:41.536 Duke: what they want, and they know what they want to fix, but 00:03:41.536 --> 00:03:42.476 they don't know how to deploy. 00:03:42.476 --> 00:03:45.449 So those, the stories don't come from them and, God bless them. 00:03:45.469 --> 00:03:46.739 There's tons of partners out there. 00:03:46.769 --> 00:03:48.709 okay, we've done this 100, 000 times. 00:03:49.679 --> 00:03:51.679 , here's all the things that we've got to fix. 00:03:52.079 --> 00:03:58.489 Figure out, but for the rest of us, product owners, admins, devs, architects, 00:03:58.569 --> 00:04:04.639 freelance consultants, we have to go into rooms where they just don't know. 00:04:05.119 --> 00:04:07.409 Even if they know, it's like, I want asset management. 00:04:07.409 --> 00:04:09.899 that's still way too vague. 00:04:09.977 --> 00:04:13.475 To just start cranking out stories on and so if you're like, if you're a 00:04:13.475 --> 00:04:17.987 beginner in the space, , oh, gosh, this week, Corey, man, , so many DMS, can you 00:04:17.987 --> 00:04:19.827 just send me a ton of exercises to do? 00:04:19.827 --> 00:04:21.037 Can you tell me what to build? 00:04:21.257 --> 00:04:22.307 You tell me how to build it? 00:04:22.327 --> 00:04:24.801 And I'll just , use the building blocks and service now to do it. 00:04:24.841 --> 00:04:30.687 I'm like, you gotta start building the muscle of taking stuff from just raw idea. 00:04:31.074 --> 00:04:35.197 To the specifics of what you're gonna build because that's the skill 00:04:35.197 --> 00:04:36.807 set that gets you the big money 00:04:37.119 --> 00:04:40.101 CJ: yeah, dude, to me, listening to this as we talk about it, right? 00:04:40.101 --> 00:04:44.241 It sounds fairly simple to me but I know it's not a simple skill, 00:04:44.638 --> 00:04:48.088 It's one of the things that I think provides the most value to 00:04:48.088 --> 00:04:50.388 check writers in the space, right? 00:04:50.388 --> 00:04:54.018 It's knowing that after they wrote the check that they have someone who 00:04:54.018 --> 00:04:58.148 can take a conversation with them and turn that into the value that 00:04:58.148 --> 00:04:59.798 they were writing the check for. 00:05:00.418 --> 00:05:00.878 Right. 00:05:01.008 --> 00:05:06.641 And, and I don't think that is a skill set that is practiced often in the ecosystem. 00:05:06.641 --> 00:05:10.841 And what I mean by that is, I think it's a skill set that exists, right? 00:05:10.841 --> 00:05:13.264 I don't think that, a lot of the folks who end up working 00:05:13.264 --> 00:05:15.184 at partners at a level, right? 00:05:15.184 --> 00:05:19.104 That, say you and I would, if we were, to go and get a job at a partner right now. 00:05:19.364 --> 00:05:21.794 I don't think that those folks don't have the skill set. 00:05:22.089 --> 00:05:26.639 What I do think though, Is that once you get into this mechanized 00:05:26.659 --> 00:05:28.219 consulting world, right? 00:05:28.219 --> 00:05:34.142 Like that skillset is abstracted away a bit, And in favor of this is how we do it. 00:05:34.142 --> 00:05:35.592 And this is how we've always done it. 00:05:35.887 --> 00:05:36.297 Duke: yeah. 00:05:36.425 --> 00:05:39.645 CJ: And so what ends up happening is I think there's this big, a bit of a 00:05:39.655 --> 00:05:43.045 mix match between listening to your. 00:05:43.075 --> 00:05:46.602 check writing customer, And implementing what they asked for. 00:05:46.725 --> 00:05:49.305 and without doing it through your own lens. 00:05:49.535 --> 00:05:49.945 Right, 00:05:50.210 --> 00:05:50.600 Duke: Yeah. 00:05:51.005 --> 00:05:54.325 CJ: because I think that's also key to because it's not bringing 00:05:54.895 --> 00:05:56.875 your lens to the problem, right? 00:05:56.875 --> 00:05:58.145 And therefore the solution. 00:05:59.105 --> 00:06:00.575 Duke: I want to be super clear here. 00:06:00.575 --> 00:06:01.965 We're not taking partners down. 00:06:01.965 --> 00:06:06.855 We're elevating them in a way, because, it's great that once you like, once 00:06:06.855 --> 00:06:10.175 you do a few implementations, you start building a body of expertise. 00:06:10.175 --> 00:06:11.535 these questions come up all the time. 00:06:11.715 --> 00:06:13.525 The 1st thing we have to do is answer these questions. 00:06:13.875 --> 00:06:16.885 And then, they build the guides, They forge the path 00:06:16.895 --> 00:06:17.955 through the forest and that's. 00:06:18.415 --> 00:06:19.025 Fantastic. 00:06:19.025 --> 00:06:22.215 I'm just saying that there's a lot of cases where it's a brand new forest. 00:06:22.215 --> 00:06:23.505 Like we don't even know where to go. 00:06:23.955 --> 00:06:26.585 Um, so I guess we'll start off with example. 00:06:26.585 --> 00:06:27.725 I can pull from recent experience. 00:06:28.915 --> 00:06:35.415 I have this customer, they've got a, service catalog that like basically 00:06:35.415 --> 00:06:39.235 everybody, your organization is like frigging service catalog. 00:06:39.265 --> 00:06:40.375 Oh, you're going to send me there again. 00:06:40.405 --> 00:06:44.435 Oh, you know, and nobody likes it. 00:06:44.835 --> 00:06:48.724 Not that people should, But nobody likes it, both on the requesting 00:06:48.724 --> 00:06:51.014 end, but also on the fulfiller end. 00:06:51.114 --> 00:06:55.344 So there's just general malaise around the service catalog. 00:06:56.164 --> 00:06:58.264 And so what do the leaders do? 00:06:58.274 --> 00:07:00.654 They're like, okay, team service catalog sucks. 00:07:00.690 --> 00:07:05.129 this year, we are going to revitalize a service catalog, go, 00:07:05.769 --> 00:07:06.229 CJ: All right. 00:07:07.369 --> 00:07:08.669 Duke: you know, go, let's just line up. 00:07:08.669 --> 00:07:10.389 Like we got these 400 catalog items. 00:07:10.399 --> 00:07:11.539 Let's line them up and go. 00:07:11.805 --> 00:07:14.025 So that's super abstract. 00:07:14.025 --> 00:07:14.365 Right. 00:07:14.675 --> 00:07:15.115 CJ: Yeah. 00:07:15.325 --> 00:07:16.625 Duke: So how do we chop down that tree? 00:07:16.625 --> 00:07:16.900 Corey? 00:07:17.254 --> 00:07:17.784 CJ: Yeah, dude. 00:07:17.854 --> 00:07:21.710 I think a lot of it comes down to bursts, just listening. 00:07:21.850 --> 00:07:25.054 for me, these are soft skills that we're talking about, from my perspective. 00:07:25.287 --> 00:07:28.427 being able to listen to your customer and understand what they're actually trying 00:07:28.427 --> 00:07:31.627 to tell you right now, what they're trying to get to you and because they're going 00:07:31.627 --> 00:07:35.437 to use terminology that is not going to map one to one with service now, right? 00:07:35.437 --> 00:07:38.417 It's not going to map one to one with tech, you're gonna say, okay, we go 00:07:38.417 --> 00:07:41.587 to the, to the service catalog if they even use service catalog, right? 00:07:41.587 --> 00:07:45.667 They might say we go to the web page and we do a search and we get 400 things. 00:07:45.697 --> 00:07:48.507 And what I want to know is how can that be 40? 00:07:48.787 --> 00:07:50.157 Because there's too much of it. 00:07:50.207 --> 00:07:50.437 Right. 00:07:50.437 --> 00:07:53.097 And then what you're, what I'm hearing is, okay. 00:07:53.097 --> 00:07:56.647 So it's, what we have is too many, too much choice, for 00:07:56.647 --> 00:07:58.477 people that make good decisions. 00:07:58.897 --> 00:08:02.507 And , how do we maximize, , the click to choice ratio. 00:08:02.617 --> 00:08:07.327 So when I go into a situation, I know exactly what, I know exactly how to ask 00:08:07.347 --> 00:08:09.017 for what I want and I get what I want. 00:08:09.677 --> 00:08:10.827 So that's, you know, it's. 00:08:11.372 --> 00:08:14.422 Duke: that's definitely something that's definitely something we struggle with. 00:08:14.422 --> 00:08:17.002 Now, the thing I decided to do at the start was. 00:08:17.555 --> 00:08:20.085 let's deconstruct it a bit when you say it's bad. 00:08:20.175 --> 00:08:21.255 What do you mean by bad? 00:08:21.265 --> 00:08:22.225 People don't like it. 00:08:22.382 --> 00:08:26.852 so it's getting them to be more specific about their sense of the thing sucks. 00:08:26.862 --> 00:08:31.029 But at this place, it was, it wasn't there, all we had was this 00:08:31.029 --> 00:08:34.109 vague political force that the catalog needed to be improved. 00:08:34.199 --> 00:08:34.679 So. 00:08:34.679 --> 00:08:36.399 I started just running reports against it, 00:08:37.399 --> 00:08:37.839 CJ: Okay. 00:08:38.059 --> 00:08:38.559 All right. 00:08:38.854 --> 00:08:42.704 Duke: what can we got 400 catalogs items out there, but 400 are people 00:08:42.704 --> 00:08:49.363 using what items are actually being used, And maybe even how long on 00:08:49.383 --> 00:08:50.993 average are the things taking. 00:08:51.292 --> 00:08:54.422 Because basically if you were going to solve a problem, like 400 00:08:54.472 --> 00:08:57.352 catalog items, I really only want to focus my efforts on the ones 00:08:57.352 --> 00:08:59.072 that are being used the most, right? 00:09:00.072 --> 00:09:01.922 CJ: Oh, well, maybe, maybe, 00:09:02.162 --> 00:09:02.692 Duke: of the time. 00:09:02.702 --> 00:09:03.282 Most of the time. 00:09:03.282 --> 00:09:03.752 Yeah, I know. 00:09:03.852 --> 00:09:06.832 You could have the one or two that are super politically important 00:09:06.832 --> 00:09:08.342 and are used 10 times in a year. 00:09:08.372 --> 00:09:08.732 I get 00:09:08.842 --> 00:09:09.162 CJ: What? 00:09:09.172 --> 00:09:09.712 No, no, no. 00:09:09.712 --> 00:09:11.372 Actually, I was going to go somewhere else with that, 00:09:11.382 --> 00:09:11.912 Duke: Okay, go. 00:09:12.252 --> 00:09:12.562 CJ: right? 00:09:12.812 --> 00:09:17.422 Maybe the items that would be used more aren't being used because 00:09:17.422 --> 00:09:18.512 they're not being surfaced. 00:09:18.544 --> 00:09:18.876 ha 00:09:19.133 --> 00:09:19.603 Duke: Okay. 00:09:19.813 --> 00:09:22.893 Yes, because that's, what ended up happening. 00:09:22.893 --> 00:09:27.079 So I ran this report and it was one of the most extreme moments of that 00:09:27.079 --> 00:09:28.269 is not the way it's supposed to be. 00:09:28.469 --> 00:09:35.347 So we got, we literally have 400 items, but 50 percent of all catalog traffic was. 00:09:35.977 --> 00:09:36.747 I'll let you guess. 00:09:37.597 --> 00:09:39.147 I'll let you guess which catalog item it was. 00:09:39.767 --> 00:09:40.217 CJ: Oh man. 00:09:40.217 --> 00:09:41.507 Generic was that, 00:09:41.507 --> 00:09:42.237 Duke: service request. 00:09:42.327 --> 00:09:43.947 CJ: oh God, I love that one. 00:09:44.537 --> 00:09:47.190 Duke: But then, you know, in ServiceNow where it's give me the top 00:09:47.190 --> 00:09:48.850 X and then the rest goes to other, 00:09:49.395 --> 00:09:49.755 CJ: Yeah. 00:09:50.440 --> 00:09:52.600 Duke: other was the second most used. 00:09:52.610 --> 00:09:54.750 So you got to think about the spread on that. 00:09:54.903 --> 00:09:58.133 it was this big long, I used a horizontal bar graph and it was this 00:09:58.173 --> 00:10:04.083 huge long line and then these little itty bitty dots all the way underneath 00:10:04.083 --> 00:10:09.143 it, because basically 399 were evenly split is basically what I'm getting at. 00:10:09.464 --> 00:10:09.854 CJ: yeah. 00:10:10.222 --> 00:10:11.932 Duke: how do we even deconstruct this? 00:10:11.932 --> 00:10:13.792 So , now we've get your arms around. 00:10:14.082 --> 00:10:18.182 What are people using generic service request for? 00:10:19.182 --> 00:10:19.722 CJ: So, 00:10:19.947 --> 00:10:22.937 Duke: 9 hospitals in 3 healthcare systems. 00:10:23.477 --> 00:10:28.194 Merged into one giant mega brand, And it's all you can go to the customers and ask. 00:10:28.619 --> 00:10:31.602 CJ: I think probably the issue is what are they using it for? 00:10:31.932 --> 00:10:32.532 Everything 00:10:34.717 --> 00:10:37.567 Duke: there's going to be stuff in there that they're going to be using more. 00:10:38.092 --> 00:10:38.452 CJ: Yeah, 00:10:38.707 --> 00:10:39.067 Duke: Right? 00:10:39.127 --> 00:10:40.287 So it's great. 00:10:40.327 --> 00:10:40.767 Great. 00:10:40.767 --> 00:10:43.164 I got 28, 000 requests. 00:10:43.914 --> 00:10:46.694 Generic service requests since January. 00:10:46.996 --> 00:10:48.026 This is where the skill is, right? 00:10:48.026 --> 00:10:50.766 There's no instructions for this, but you have to , have that 00:10:50.766 --> 00:10:54.516 savvy to experiment, I guess? 00:10:55.596 --> 00:10:58.776 I'm hearkening back to my grade 7 computer science teacher. 00:10:59.050 --> 00:11:02.260 Write a piece of Turbo Pascal that will write out a Fibonacci sequence. 00:11:02.543 --> 00:11:02.903 CJ: Right. 00:11:03.358 --> 00:11:03.658 Yeah. 00:11:03.728 --> 00:11:04.718 and how do you get there? 00:11:04.863 --> 00:11:07.673 Duke: Yeah, but you're sitting there, you're in grade 7, you're like, Whoa, 00:11:08.493 --> 00:11:08.713 CJ: We can, 00:11:09.033 --> 00:11:10.273 Duke: how do I even do this? 00:11:10.273 --> 00:11:11.593 I'm sitting here just so frustrated. 00:11:11.593 --> 00:11:13.863 And he just kept on saying, you gotta think, you gotta think, you 00:11:13.863 --> 00:11:15.373 gotta ask questions, you gotta think. 00:11:15.373 --> 00:11:17.932 And I was at the time, I was like, it's so frustrating. 00:11:17.932 --> 00:11:19.002 Just show me how to do it. 00:11:20.231 --> 00:11:21.321 CJ: that's a really good question though. 00:11:21.584 --> 00:11:26.554 how do you know how to do something that you've never done without 00:11:27.044 --> 00:11:28.484 somebody showing you how to do it? 00:11:28.594 --> 00:11:31.945 and without, the person who's asking you to do the thing, being able to 00:11:31.945 --> 00:11:37.065 really describe it clearly, maybe even clearly in, in your language. 00:11:37.525 --> 00:11:40.715 There's a thing that I do sometimes on complicated projects where I say we 00:11:40.715 --> 00:11:42.585 need to define the project vocabulary. 00:11:43.619 --> 00:11:44.259 Duke: Yeah, 00:11:44.514 --> 00:11:47.614 CJ: right so that we're all talking about the same things 00:11:47.614 --> 00:11:48.954 when we say the same words. 00:11:49.514 --> 00:11:53.424 And, that's very useful, depending on how on the mismatch between, 00:11:53.424 --> 00:11:55.014 the doers and the askers. 00:11:55.459 --> 00:11:58.709 if there's a significant mismatch there, then, defining that project 00:11:58.709 --> 00:12:00.879 vocabulary becomes very useful. 00:12:00.923 --> 00:12:03.809 Because it tells us how to think about things. 00:12:04.669 --> 00:12:08.119 And I think in this situation, what we're trying to back into is how do 00:12:08.119 --> 00:12:13.499 we think about the thing that we're being asked to do when the person 00:12:13.499 --> 00:12:15.089 who's asking us to do it, right? 00:12:15.099 --> 00:12:19.719 That can't necessarily communicate to us in the language in which we're fluent. 00:12:20.719 --> 00:12:21.629 Duke: I love that, man. 00:12:21.629 --> 00:12:27.419 I love the, like the project lexicon, the project vocabulary. 00:12:27.569 --> 00:12:28.919 I'm wrestling with that right now. 00:12:28.919 --> 00:12:30.459 I've got this, consulting team. 00:12:30.753 --> 00:12:34.026 There's some language barriers, but how many forms do we have? 00:12:34.056 --> 00:12:35.016 I'm like, what are you talking about? 00:12:35.026 --> 00:12:35.736 Forms? 00:12:35.751 --> 00:12:36.271 CJ: Right. 00:12:36.486 --> 00:12:38.226 Duke: every table has forms. 00:12:38.631 --> 00:12:39.191 CJ: Yes. 00:12:39.191 --> 00:12:44.411 Yeah. 00:12:44.636 --> 00:12:45.496 Duke: saying forms. 00:12:45.496 --> 00:12:47.026 They say catalog items all the time. 00:12:47.423 --> 00:12:48.756 now Monday, 00:12:51.176 --> 00:12:52.536 I'm going to make a project lexicon. 00:12:52.536 --> 00:12:53.966 That's a great idea, man. 00:12:54.586 --> 00:12:55.226 Kudos for that. 00:12:55.246 --> 00:12:56.196 I guess I owe you five bucks. 00:12:57.191 --> 00:12:57.401 CJ: Yeah. 00:12:57.401 --> 00:12:57.651 Yeah. 00:12:57.651 --> 00:12:59.741 No, you'll I'll put on your tab 00:12:59.776 --> 00:12:59.996 Duke: Yeah. 00:12:59.996 --> 00:13:00.306 All right. 00:13:00.306 --> 00:13:00.556 Thanks. 00:13:02.781 --> 00:13:05.616 CJ: but it's the truth, and it backs into what you were talking about you've got 00:13:05.616 --> 00:13:09.196 this data, So our, our service catalog sucks, we'd like you to improve it. 00:13:09.756 --> 00:13:11.036 And then go right. 00:13:11.036 --> 00:13:13.096 And now you're trying to figure out, okay, what does suck me? 00:13:13.466 --> 00:13:16.436 And then so you start digging into the data and you figure out, oh, 00:13:16.446 --> 00:13:19.236 suck means that the only thing you use is generic service requests. 00:13:19.666 --> 00:13:21.526 Oh, that does suck, right? 00:13:21.536 --> 00:13:24.379 Because that means that, you don't have standard processes 00:13:24.379 --> 00:13:27.429 that are back ending into things that people are requesting for. 00:13:27.749 --> 00:13:28.089 Right? 00:13:28.539 --> 00:13:31.279 Duke: This is where my obsession about reports really helped me out 00:13:31.279 --> 00:13:34.249 there, Because, one day I'm just looking through ServiceNow reports. 00:13:34.249 --> 00:13:35.309 What can I use? 00:13:35.309 --> 00:13:39.109 What's stuff meant to be discover the idea of the Pareto chart. 00:13:39.159 --> 00:13:42.569 What's that do R and D on what the Pareto principle is. 00:13:42.569 --> 00:13:44.319 And I was like, Oh, that's interesting. 00:13:44.369 --> 00:13:48.609 Things tend to not be perfectly even, evenly distributed everywhere in nature. 00:13:48.609 --> 00:13:49.959 It's just the way the universe works. 00:13:50.344 --> 00:13:51.094 CJ: Yeah, exactly. 00:13:51.359 --> 00:13:54.776 Duke: And so if there's 28, 000 generic service requests, they probably 00:13:54.786 --> 00:13:57.193 center around 2 or 3 types of things. 00:13:57.978 --> 00:13:58.568 CJ: Most likely. 00:13:58.959 --> 00:14:02.428 Duke: it just came down to like, going to the view, letting it do like 00:14:02.428 --> 00:14:04.964 100 or 200 at a time or whatever. 00:14:05.644 --> 00:14:07.604 And just going back over the past month. 00:14:08.099 --> 00:14:10.889 And just reading them and seeing what words popped up a bunch. 00:14:11.374 --> 00:14:13.144 CJ: And that sucks, man, because 00:14:13.149 --> 00:14:13.619 Duke: does. 00:14:13.629 --> 00:14:14.239 It does. 00:14:14.269 --> 00:14:14.949 But you know what? 00:14:14.969 --> 00:14:16.179 It also works. 00:14:17.244 --> 00:14:17.654 CJ: yes, 00:14:17.819 --> 00:14:21.529 Duke: I've seen the word access five times in this page of 10 records. 00:14:21.539 --> 00:14:24.985 So let's just, short description star access. 00:14:25.615 --> 00:14:29.485 Oh, that's 2, 500 of the 28, 000. 00:14:29.595 --> 00:14:32.832 That's almost 10 percent of all the generic service requests 00:14:32.832 --> 00:14:34.382 have something to do with access. 00:14:34.927 --> 00:14:35.617 CJ: right, 00:14:35.860 --> 00:14:38.850 Duke: which by the way, I said that to the customer and they're like, 00:14:39.040 --> 00:14:40.010 yeah, that makes a lot of sense. 00:14:40.010 --> 00:14:43.437 Cause everybody's super angry about, access and how slow it takes to modify 00:14:43.437 --> 00:14:45.107 the access request and dah, dah, dah, dah. 00:14:45.107 --> 00:14:46.397 And you know what I mean? 00:14:47.267 --> 00:14:47.987 And I'm like, wait a minute. 00:14:47.987 --> 00:14:48.907 What access requests? 00:14:48.927 --> 00:14:49.237 Oh yeah. 00:14:49.237 --> 00:14:53.297 We got three or four service catalog items for, to, to like, to aggregate 00:14:53.327 --> 00:14:55.097 all the cat, all the access requests. 00:14:55.107 --> 00:14:58.007 So I'm like, okay, but they're being used 500 times. 00:14:58.339 --> 00:15:01.259 Generic service request is using 2, 500 times. 00:15:01.589 --> 00:15:04.739 So they're not using the things that you set aside for this. 00:15:05.135 --> 00:15:05.515 CJ: right. 00:15:05.760 --> 00:15:08.720 Duke: so I think I would suggest right now that the stuff that they 00:15:08.720 --> 00:15:11.390 have is just too complicated, right? 00:15:12.315 --> 00:15:12.645 CJ: Yeah. 00:15:12.820 --> 00:15:15.840 Duke: whole one form to rule them all for access requests. 00:15:16.134 --> 00:15:20.094 CJ: So would it be like too complicated or is it that it's hard to find? 00:15:21.109 --> 00:15:23.349 Duke: Yeah, probably a good mix of both. 00:15:23.499 --> 00:15:24.559 Probably a good mix of both. 00:15:24.609 --> 00:15:25.079 But, 00:15:25.199 --> 00:15:27.149 CJ: But let's see how this is Q and a, right? 00:15:27.289 --> 00:15:29.129 Cause that's where the value is. 00:15:29.129 --> 00:15:31.789 The surfacing, I think that's what we're trying to get at. 00:15:31.789 --> 00:15:31.849 Yeah. 00:15:32.299 --> 00:15:34.199 Is, my customers got a problem. 00:15:34.209 --> 00:15:35.509 Just recapping again. 00:15:35.509 --> 00:15:38.539 We're like using way too many, service catalog isn't working for them. 00:15:38.739 --> 00:15:41.169 Then you figure out it's not working because they've got, most of the 00:15:41.169 --> 00:15:43.739 things that they're using is generic service requests, but then you 00:15:43.739 --> 00:15:46.639 figure out they use a generic service request, mostly for access requests. 00:15:46.639 --> 00:15:49.869 And then you also figure out that they actually have access requests, catalog 00:15:49.869 --> 00:15:52.329 items, and you're like, what the hell? 00:15:53.549 --> 00:15:57.372 Duke: Yeah, 20 minutes, 20 minutes have gone by and we've gone from 00:15:57.372 --> 00:16:02.346 catalog sucks, line up those 400 catalog requests and remodel them to no, no, 00:16:02.346 --> 00:16:04.054 no, no, no, no, no, that won't work. 00:16:04.054 --> 00:16:10.102 Because even if we remodeled each of the 400 catalog items, Everybody's 00:16:10.102 --> 00:16:11.232 still using generic service. 00:16:11.452 --> 00:16:13.559 We got to peel that onion first. 00:16:13.879 --> 00:16:19.929 And so now we know we have a firmer thing to dig into that access 00:16:19.929 --> 00:16:22.049 requesting is a massive problem here. 00:16:22.322 --> 00:16:22.682 CJ: Right. 00:16:22.762 --> 00:16:24.599 Duke: then You're a few questions away there. 00:16:24.775 --> 00:16:26.645 What are people using access requests for? 00:16:26.942 --> 00:16:29.452 All these people that come in and out, temporary workers, 00:16:29.452 --> 00:16:34.482 contractors, oh, and so now it's not just a generic access problem. 00:16:34.542 --> 00:16:36.162 It's an onboarding problem too. 00:16:36.527 --> 00:16:37.037 CJ: Right. 00:16:37.432 --> 00:16:39.402 Duke: oh, that means we've got to bring in the HR team. 00:16:39.402 --> 00:16:40.392 They have their own developer. 00:16:40.452 --> 00:16:44.952 Oh, now we have, now we got that politics as an item on the checklist. 00:16:45.557 --> 00:16:45.927 CJ: yep. 00:16:46.767 --> 00:16:50.497 And maybe, if you keep digging at this thing, then maybe you find under those 00:16:50.507 --> 00:16:53.257 politics that things go to HR and die. 00:16:53.482 --> 00:16:56.922 then maybe the access request only works for HR and it doesn't 00:16:56.922 --> 00:16:58.102 work for the rest of the business. 00:16:58.102 --> 00:16:59.292 And that's why they use generic. 00:16:59.302 --> 00:17:01.252 I don't know if that's the case here, but that's certainly an 00:17:01.262 --> 00:17:02.882 area that I'd start to explore. 00:17:02.982 --> 00:17:06.002 whenever we get in these situations like this, I start thinking about not just 00:17:06.002 --> 00:17:07.382 the technical, but the people, right? 00:17:07.382 --> 00:17:09.232 Is there a people process that's. 00:17:09.372 --> 00:17:13.972 Bad here somewhere that's causing folks to do things in a way that I think is 00:17:14.002 --> 00:17:18.792 suboptimal, but it's more optimal for them than going through, this convoluted people 00:17:18.792 --> 00:17:23.242 process that is bogging down breaking and maybe not even giving them results at all. 00:17:24.217 --> 00:17:50.497 Duke: Yeah, 00:17:50.797 --> 00:17:52.077 CJ: the path that we're taking, right? 00:17:52.077 --> 00:17:54.207 look at, this is like a series of forks in a row, right? 00:17:54.737 --> 00:17:55.957 It's a series of forks in a row. 00:17:56.007 --> 00:17:59.437 And then, each time you approach a fork is almost like a, like dungeons 00:17:59.437 --> 00:18:02.367 and dragons or, something like that, you approach a fork in the road, 00:18:02.427 --> 00:18:04.317 both paths are shrouded in mystery. 00:18:04.357 --> 00:18:05.447 Which one do you take? 00:18:05.637 --> 00:18:05.987 Right. 00:18:08.727 --> 00:18:12.147 so you use the collective experience such that you've gathered to get to that 00:18:12.147 --> 00:18:14.381 fork to choose the best likely path. 00:18:14.381 --> 00:18:15.391 and you keep going from there. 00:18:15.786 --> 00:18:20.426 Duke: Man, I would much prefer a divination spell, but I didn't 00:18:20.426 --> 00:18:21.896 roll a wizard, unfortunately. 00:18:24.541 --> 00:18:27.411 CJ: Hey man, look, if we can conjure the spirits, I'm all for it. 00:18:28.406 --> 00:18:31.623 Duke: hey, listen, we're still talking in abstractions, but if 00:18:31.623 --> 00:18:34.313 I can think of a metaphor, it's just how do you untie a knot? 00:18:34.739 --> 00:18:35.129 CJ: Yeah. 00:18:35.459 --> 00:18:37.229 Duke: there's no precise instructions. 00:18:37.229 --> 00:18:40.869 You just got to look at the thing for a long time and 00:18:41.199 --> 00:18:43.259 start probing, experimenting. 00:18:43.259 --> 00:18:44.759 What happens if I pull , this part. 00:18:44.889 --> 00:18:45.129 Okay. 00:18:45.129 --> 00:18:46.519 I see that moves on the other side. 00:18:46.549 --> 00:18:49.819 So now that's one extra thing that I know, keep probing. 00:18:50.049 --> 00:18:54.346 And then as you probe, you have insights that stack on insights. 00:18:54.496 --> 00:18:56.516 That make your probes more effective, 00:18:56.737 --> 00:18:57.497 CJ: Yeah. 00:18:57.756 --> 00:19:00.616 Duke: if you just tease it and not long enough, you get to understand 00:19:00.616 --> 00:19:01.906 how the whole thing is working. 00:19:01.906 --> 00:19:03.536 And then it gets looser and looser and looser. 00:19:03.616 --> 00:19:06.042 And the next probe is more effective. 00:19:06.076 --> 00:19:08.756 I harken back to my grade 7 compute comp sci teacher again. 00:19:09.636 --> 00:19:11.056 You definitely got to ask questions. 00:19:11.274 --> 00:19:13.574 CJ: I think it's intellectual curiosity, right? 00:19:13.574 --> 00:19:14.334 Likes to be curious. 00:19:14.529 --> 00:19:14.849 Duke: Yeah. 00:19:15.224 --> 00:19:15.544 CJ: Yeah. 00:19:15.844 --> 00:19:17.094 Duke: Please, please. 00:19:17.094 --> 00:19:20.604 As you're entering the service now, ecosystem newcomers, please. 00:19:20.614 --> 00:19:23.814 Now today, pray these words with me right now. 00:19:25.964 --> 00:19:29.214 Like I am not an order taker, 00:19:30.244 --> 00:19:30.864 CJ: Yeah. 00:19:31.121 --> 00:19:33.141 Duke: There's outcomes that you have to fulfill, but break 00:19:33.141 --> 00:19:34.241 the order taking mentality. 00:19:34.691 --> 00:19:36.311 Hey, they just asked me to do this. 00:19:36.331 --> 00:19:37.291 That's what I'm going to go do. 00:19:37.361 --> 00:19:38.111 Oh, no. 00:19:39.681 --> 00:19:40.581 Dig deeper. 00:19:40.611 --> 00:19:41.781 Ask questions. 00:19:42.451 --> 00:19:45.571 And you do that on the small scale with the small stuff they're sending you now. 00:19:46.201 --> 00:19:49.317 And then it just gets easier and easier You train yourself up and then 00:19:49.317 --> 00:19:52.867 someday you'll be in the scenario I'm in right now, where it's like 00:19:53.377 --> 00:19:57.037 the customer's looking at you and make these bad feelings go away, 00:19:58.227 --> 00:19:58.547 CJ: Yes. 00:19:58.947 --> 00:20:03.217 Duke: and taking it from that to, you plan execution results that 00:20:03.217 --> 00:20:04.617 matter, I'll give you another example. 00:20:05.617 --> 00:20:07.967 They have these two asset managers. 00:20:08.043 --> 00:20:11.622 It's a big merger and acquisition operation, right? 00:20:11.622 --> 00:20:14.022 So there's basically three or four companies that are now 00:20:14.022 --> 00:20:15.342 recently become one company. 00:20:15.562 --> 00:20:19.062 Two of the companies have people that got these giant Excel sheets 00:20:19.242 --> 00:20:20.362 and we call them asset managers. 00:20:20.861 --> 00:20:24.354 And so they come up with Hey, get SCCM data into service now, 00:20:24.384 --> 00:20:27.627 because we need to do asset management on computers that we own. 00:20:28.415 --> 00:20:32.139 We give it to the outsource, partner team and they're like, oh, SCCM 00:20:32.139 --> 00:20:34.019 integration, boom, specific move. 00:20:35.119 --> 00:20:37.762 And then it's 3 weeks later, the project's complete. 00:20:38.037 --> 00:20:42.677 Everything's in we clearly tested the integration, but nobody's happy. 00:20:44.037 --> 00:20:44.667 You know what I mean? 00:20:44.797 --> 00:20:45.957 Nobody's happy. 00:20:46.227 --> 00:20:50.647 leadership's trying to deconstruct but we close the project and we close it on time. 00:20:50.647 --> 00:20:52.377 Like, how come not happy? 00:20:54.369 --> 00:20:55.269 but look closer. 00:20:55.502 --> 00:20:59.902 We want the SCCM stuff so that we can do asset management on computers. 00:20:59.902 --> 00:21:01.032 And nobody thought to say, hold on. 00:21:01.032 --> 00:21:04.432 Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, because asset management is like, how 00:21:04.432 --> 00:21:06.962 many processes, Corey, like eight, 00:21:07.207 --> 00:21:07.707 CJ: yeah, 00:21:07.722 --> 00:21:08.542 Duke: 10, like, 00:21:08.567 --> 00:21:10.460 CJ: a, yeah, it's a, lot in there to unpack. 00:21:10.735 --> 00:21:12.972 Duke: I got on there and I was like, when you say asset 00:21:12.972 --> 00:21:14.832 management, what do you mean? 00:21:15.177 --> 00:21:15.537 CJ: Ha. 00:21:15.609 --> 00:21:17.409 Duke: Is it just the fact that we have a record in here? 00:21:17.409 --> 00:21:20.479 It says computer 4, 000, right? 00:21:20.479 --> 00:21:20.568 Right. 00:21:21.679 --> 00:21:27.422 Or is it, how does it go from requested to sitting on our dock or all the asset 00:21:27.422 --> 00:21:32.562 management stuff, but nobody thought to ask that they just saw SCCM grabbed 00:21:32.562 --> 00:21:35.132 on to the specific and ran with it. 00:21:35.267 --> 00:21:54.627 Okay. 00:21:54.637 --> 00:21:55.297 CJ: talking, but. 00:21:55.449 --> 00:22:00.059 Think of all your work experience as practice for what you would like to be 00:22:00.059 --> 00:22:02.659 doing with your work experience, right? 00:22:02.659 --> 00:22:08.319 Because you don't, there's no switch, as you're progressing through your career, 00:22:08.579 --> 00:22:13.929 where you go from, low level to high level, you go, you get to high level by 00:22:13.929 --> 00:22:18.085 practicing high level traits, and that means, at the very beginning coming 00:22:18.085 --> 00:22:21.537 into the ecosystem, like you said, say a prayer with me, I will not take orders. 00:22:21.537 --> 00:22:25.317 I'm not an order taker, push back, ask questions, probe, be curious. 00:22:25.952 --> 00:22:31.342 And in it, because if you do that in that situation, say when you start, if you end 00:22:31.342 --> 00:22:36.739 up working for, this company and they're like, yeah, no asset management, we got 00:22:36.739 --> 00:22:41.549 the data in SCCM and you don't just like here, like SCCM, you shut the conversation 00:22:41.579 --> 00:22:46.689 down and run off and do it, you say, okay, so when we get the data from SCCM and the 00:22:46.689 --> 00:22:47.899 service, now, how do you want to use it? 00:22:48.197 --> 00:22:51.440 what process is this aligning with what's the outcomes for the business, 00:22:51.600 --> 00:22:52.930 Duke: Oh, the outcomes episode. 00:22:53.140 --> 00:22:57.120 Yeah, let's just take that whole outcomes episode. 00:22:57.130 --> 00:22:58.420 Just insert it right here. 00:22:58.540 --> 00:22:59.220 We'll pause. 00:22:59.400 --> 00:23:02.970 We'll wait for you and then come back. 00:23:02.970 --> 00:23:05.100 What's 00:23:05.174 --> 00:23:05.954 CJ: and all of those things. 00:23:05.954 --> 00:23:09.554 And so you understand that the, all these things are means to an end, Like 00:23:09.734 --> 00:23:12.379 service now is a means to an end, right? 00:23:12.379 --> 00:23:12.903 Like 00:23:13.514 --> 00:23:13.964 Duke: the end? 00:23:13.984 --> 00:23:14.814 What's the end? 00:23:14.824 --> 00:23:15.734 Yeah, exactly. 00:23:15.930 --> 00:23:20.260 CJ: I just think that's always my North star is service now as a means to an end. 00:23:20.310 --> 00:23:21.040 What's the end. 00:23:21.485 --> 00:23:22.415 What are you trying to do? 00:23:22.415 --> 00:23:23.495 Nobody buys service. 00:23:23.505 --> 00:23:25.145 Now, just to say that they bought service. 00:23:25.145 --> 00:23:28.775 Now they buy service now because service now it's a force multiplier. 00:23:29.325 --> 00:23:32.985 And they hire me because I'm a force multiplier of service downs, 00:23:32.985 --> 00:23:34.315 forced multiplication right now. 00:23:34.315 --> 00:23:35.455 We're talking exponentials. 00:23:36.420 --> 00:23:38.940 Duke: And not just because I know how to use flow designer or write 00:23:38.940 --> 00:23:42.300 a business rule and know, know a bunch of the API for JavaScript. 00:23:42.310 --> 00:23:47.230 It's because let's go full on Jedi Master Neil deGrasse Tyson here. 00:23:47.740 --> 00:23:52.448 The hole like you're made of star stuff, you know, The universe has put 00:23:52.448 --> 00:23:55.218 you there right there for a reason. 00:23:55.248 --> 00:23:59.258 And the difference between them being, Oh my God, that was awesome. 00:23:59.268 --> 00:24:01.618 Look how much better our lives are because of service. 00:24:01.648 --> 00:24:06.448 Now, the difference between that and how come people not happy project 00:24:06.478 --> 00:24:10.288 completed soon, the difference between those two things could be the clarifying 00:24:10.288 --> 00:24:16.428 lens that you add, not just your flow designer chops, the clarifying lens. 00:24:16.803 --> 00:24:17.363 CJ: Yes. 00:24:17.423 --> 00:24:20.056 and that's not to, devalue the flow designer shops you got. 00:24:20.076 --> 00:24:21.646 Cause once you clarify the lands, right. 00:24:21.646 --> 00:24:23.386 Then you shine that puppy up, right? 00:24:23.406 --> 00:24:24.466 Somebody got to build it. 00:24:24.621 --> 00:24:27.301 Duke: Yeah, you could be the most exquisite flow designer in the 00:24:27.301 --> 00:24:29.001 world building the wrong thing. 00:24:29.291 --> 00:24:32.516 CJ: Yeah Right. 00:24:34.696 --> 00:24:35.066 What is this? 00:24:35.066 --> 00:24:37.486 This is a diamond pinky ring. 00:24:37.526 --> 00:24:44.556 I don't have a pinky, you know? 00:24:47.346 --> 00:24:49.699 So We're talking about action to abstraction, right? 00:24:49.739 --> 00:24:51.249 All of this, right? 00:24:51.259 --> 00:24:54.683 Or sorry, abstraction to action, all of this is action now, even 00:24:54.683 --> 00:24:58.033 though it might seem like it's just another layer of abstraction. 00:24:58.033 --> 00:25:02.123 Sometimes abstraction is multi layered, multi faceted, right? 00:25:02.413 --> 00:25:03.453 Duke: It makes it abstract. 00:25:03.733 --> 00:25:04.493 CJ: right. 00:25:05.143 --> 00:25:05.953 It's not clear. 00:25:06.203 --> 00:25:09.123 And the actions that you take to get from that top layer, all the 00:25:09.123 --> 00:25:12.720 way down to the core, is the value that you're adding to the project. 00:25:14.795 --> 00:25:15.495 That's important. 00:25:15.495 --> 00:25:17.495 That's value that not everybody can see. 00:25:17.495 --> 00:25:19.385 from the perspective of the tech side, right? 00:25:19.385 --> 00:25:24.152 It's not it's value that not everyone knows how to to get to to execute. 00:25:24.182 --> 00:25:25.668 And, to distill that, right? 00:25:25.668 --> 00:25:29.778 I say, be curious, ask a lot of questions poke around, listen, 00:25:30.198 --> 00:25:33.248 listen, listen, listen, listen, listen to your customer, right? 00:25:33.462 --> 00:25:35.582 Cause they're telling you what's hurting, right? 00:25:35.592 --> 00:25:36.692 You go to the doctor, right? 00:25:36.692 --> 00:25:37.172 I mean, all right. 00:25:37.202 --> 00:25:41.072 So look, we're all experts on our own body, but we're not experts on medicine. 00:25:41.422 --> 00:25:43.152 You go to doctor and your legs hurting. 00:25:43.522 --> 00:25:45.092 You're like, Hey doc, my legs hurt. 00:25:45.142 --> 00:25:46.592 They're like, well, is it the patella? 00:25:46.642 --> 00:25:46.812 Yeah. 00:25:46.812 --> 00:25:47.302 I don't know. 00:25:48.302 --> 00:25:52.672 So I look, when I do this, this part hurts, right? 00:25:53.142 --> 00:25:54.062 Duke: metaphor, man. 00:25:54.312 --> 00:25:54.712 Ah. 00:25:54.982 --> 00:25:55.002 So, 00:25:55.332 --> 00:25:56.112 CJ: there are steps, right? 00:25:56.112 --> 00:25:57.482 There's things that we can all do. 00:25:57.512 --> 00:25:58.922 And it's really about the process. 00:25:59.492 --> 00:26:03.252 It's about going through the process and being curious and creating that 00:26:03.252 --> 00:26:07.392 rapport and listening, And being empathetic to your customer's needs and 00:26:07.392 --> 00:26:10.152 really just trying to understand like the source of their pain so that you 00:26:10.152 --> 00:26:14.032 can deliver a solution that addresses it and not a solution that you want to 00:26:14.032 --> 00:26:15.882 address or that addresses your pain. 00:26:16.215 --> 00:26:17.415 Cause that also happens to you. 00:26:17.415 --> 00:26:18.875 Oh, this is SCCM boom. 00:26:19.105 --> 00:26:19.995 SCCM done. 00:26:19.995 --> 00:26:24.392 And I'm sure to hear SCCM all we've built several, SCCM integrations for 00:26:24.392 --> 00:26:25.902 clients, we've got a run book for that. 00:26:26.252 --> 00:26:27.062 Yeah, we'll do this. 00:26:27.072 --> 00:26:28.222 We'll get this on time for you. 00:26:28.222 --> 00:26:31.892 Three days, Matt, And you come back and you did the thing that nobody 00:26:31.892 --> 00:26:34.892 asked you for, but you did it on time. 00:26:36.902 --> 00:26:38.802 Duke and I'm going to zoom out a little bit here too. 00:26:38.852 --> 00:26:41.522 I'm on a rant a little bit, but I'm going to zoom out here a little bit 00:26:41.522 --> 00:26:44.642 because this is what I'm seeing with a lot of my customers right now, , it 00:26:44.642 --> 00:26:48.652 is the implementation and deployment and execution of things that they 00:26:48.652 --> 00:26:52.415 didn't ask for is giving them value that they're not looking for, and 00:26:52.475 --> 00:26:57.875 to the detriment of the value that they're actually trying to realize. 00:26:58.295 --> 00:27:01.895 And the things that they, the problems and the pain points that they're, that 00:27:01.895 --> 00:27:05.445 they continue to experience because they'll because they're not being 00:27:05.445 --> 00:27:09.505 addressed because folks are addressing the things that they want to be the 00:27:09.505 --> 00:27:11.245 problem and not the things that are. 00:27:12.285 --> 00:27:15.918 And, I think this whole episode really is about being able to 00:27:15.918 --> 00:27:17.318 better align with your customer. 00:27:17.573 --> 00:27:19.863 So that you could deliver that value to them, that they actually bought 00:27:19.863 --> 00:27:23.213 service now for the thing, the promise, when you're in a sales call, there's 00:27:23.213 --> 00:27:27.433 a promise that's being offered and one that's being accepted, right? 00:27:27.443 --> 00:27:30.513 Like the promise is being offered from service now that we're going to make 00:27:30.513 --> 00:27:32.433 your life better using this platform. 00:27:32.607 --> 00:27:33.117 Duke: Yeah. 00:27:33.283 --> 00:27:36.953 CJ: and then you're accepting that promise and in exchange, giving them money. 00:27:37.283 --> 00:27:38.483 So now we got an agreement. 00:27:38.743 --> 00:27:41.773 the agreement is I'm going to fix your pain and they change. 00:27:41.773 --> 00:27:44.113 You're going to give me money and then you don't. 00:27:44.273 --> 00:27:48.523 And if you don't fix that pain, the other side is going to feel really, 00:27:48.523 --> 00:27:50.343 really bad about giving you money. 00:27:51.573 --> 00:27:53.673 Duke: That's a great angle I hadn't even considered. 00:27:54.103 --> 00:27:58.423 Have you ever watched a great sales enablement person work, sales engineer. 00:27:59.118 --> 00:28:04.147 there's even a saying in the space., sooner you demo, the faster you lose. 00:28:04.757 --> 00:28:05.347 CJ: Yes. 00:28:06.057 --> 00:28:06.497 Yes. 00:28:06.657 --> 00:28:08.837 Duke: And what are they doing before the demo? 00:28:08.967 --> 00:28:12.457 They are trying to extract the pain. 00:28:12.617 --> 00:28:14.717 Gosh, I remember when I was working at Vivid Charts and we 00:28:14.717 --> 00:28:16.847 had this brilliant sales coach. 00:28:17.387 --> 00:28:17.887 And. 00:28:17.940 --> 00:28:20.980 we'd be on the line with somebody and we get off and we just raked over the coals. 00:28:20.990 --> 00:28:27.273 You guys only asked 3 questions, and, that coaching was just regimented 00:28:27.363 --> 00:28:31.903 of how much can we find out about their situation because then 00:28:31.903 --> 00:28:34.593 you then the solution specifies. 00:28:35.643 --> 00:28:42.803 The points to their pain, but it's just a great, like one thing you can do if 00:28:42.813 --> 00:28:45.773 you're starting out, or if you're the kind of person who like needs to breach 00:28:45.793 --> 00:28:51.817 that, I'm just an order taker mentality, find the closest SE that you can find 00:28:52.307 --> 00:28:53.907 and ask them to walk you through it. 00:28:53.917 --> 00:28:57.907 See if you can get a call recording or something, just watch a brilliant. 00:28:58.737 --> 00:29:03.327 Sales person or sales engineer or sales enabler, do their thing. 00:29:03.977 --> 00:29:05.127 Watch your first call. 00:29:05.187 --> 00:29:08.307 It will open your mind and everything that you're seeing there 00:29:08.547 --> 00:29:11.277 can be applied to an engagement. 00:29:11.277 --> 00:29:11.606 We 00:29:12.606 --> 00:29:16.446 CJ: So Duke, that means now we've got to get one of those folks on the show. 00:29:16.681 --> 00:29:18.221 Duke: Lauren McManaman in episode two. 00:29:18.221 --> 00:29:19.601 She was a brilliant SE. 00:29:19.606 --> 00:29:20.896 CJ: Yeah, she was. 00:29:21.126 --> 00:29:21.696 Yeah. 00:29:22.162 --> 00:29:27.011 Duke: come 00:29:27.866 --> 00:29:27.886 CJ: Yeah. 00:29:28.071 --> 00:29:29.311 Duke: back to us, Lauren. 00:29:30.311 --> 00:29:31.361 CJ: Yeah, that's a good point. 00:29:31.385 --> 00:29:33.425 we should definitely get her on to talk about that aspect. 00:29:33.425 --> 00:29:36.385 I think the last time we were here, we talked a little bit about different 00:29:36.385 --> 00:29:37.775 things, but this is important, man. 00:29:38.115 --> 00:29:39.245 It's a super important. 00:29:39.255 --> 00:29:41.175 And I think it's probably God, I've been using the word 00:29:41.195 --> 00:29:42.625 existential a lot in my life lately. 00:29:42.625 --> 00:29:45.958 And I don't know that this is necessarily existential, but, to 00:29:45.958 --> 00:29:49.698 the platform or to anyone's career, but I do think it's elevate. 00:29:49.738 --> 00:29:51.698 It is an elevating factor. 00:29:52.188 --> 00:29:56.248 To your career and to the platform for any customer that you're working with, 00:29:56.401 --> 00:30:00.221 they've already decided that they've bought service now and they bring you in. 00:30:00.711 --> 00:30:04.081 How do you ensure that contract goes from three months to a year? 00:30:04.641 --> 00:30:08.151 Or how do you ensure that when you're done with that three month contract, they call 00:30:08.151 --> 00:30:09.791 you back in six months to do another one? 00:30:10.291 --> 00:30:10.531 Right. 00:30:10.531 --> 00:30:11.631 Like you elevate. 00:30:11.951 --> 00:30:13.201 this is what this is about. 00:30:13.201 --> 00:30:16.091 elevating your game, talking to them, understanding their pain 00:30:16.091 --> 00:30:17.111 points, and then solving them. 00:30:17.241 --> 00:30:19.161 remember we're not selling band aids here. 00:30:19.831 --> 00:30:20.361 Right. 00:30:20.401 --> 00:30:26.021 we're peddling cures, you know, and so find a cure, help them find a cure. 00:30:27.021 --> 00:30:28.341 But you gotta know what's hurting first. 00:30:29.181 --> 00:30:30.741 Duke: That seems like a great place to leave it. 00:30:30.791 --> 00:30:32.881 We had just about 37 minutes to record. 00:30:32.881 --> 00:30:34.171 So what do you think? 00:30:34.861 --> 00:30:35.811 CJ: Yeah, let's leave it there. 00:30:36.101 --> 00:30:37.541 Alright dude, this has been great! 00:30:37.661 --> 00:30:37.901 Duke: Yeah. 00:30:37.901 --> 00:30:39.071 I love it when it goes this way. 00:30:40.681 --> 00:30:40.981 All right. 00:30:40.981 --> 00:30:41.851 Thanks for watching folks. 00:30:41.901 --> 00:30:42.371 We'll see