WEBVTT NOTE This file was generated by Descript 00:01:30.690 --> 00:01:31.790 Matt: Hey, Mike, welcome to the program. 00:01:32.490 --> 00:01:33.580 Mike: Hi Matt, thanks for having me. 00:01:34.280 --> 00:01:39.390 Matt: We're gonna talk about, all things jetpack creator suite. 00:01:39.490 --> 00:01:40.430 You're also the. 00:01:40.870 --> 00:01:41.400 I said sweet. 00:01:41.430 --> 00:01:42.560 I threw on the word sweet. 00:01:42.590 --> 00:01:43.350 It's not sweet. 00:01:43.430 --> 00:01:44.810 It's just Jetpack Creator. 00:01:45.100 --> 00:01:48.910 I don't know why I threw on the word sweet there, but Jetpack Creator 00:01:49.160 --> 00:01:50.560 recently announced in a blog post. 00:01:50.560 --> 00:01:52.420 I'll link that up in the show notes on November 6th. 00:01:52.680 --> 00:01:54.760 Take your content to the next level with Jetpack Creator. 00:01:54.990 --> 00:01:55.760 What's that all about? 00:01:55.760 --> 00:01:56.550 We're going to talk about it. 00:01:56.750 --> 00:02:02.130 You're also the co founder of, No BS CRM, which was acquired by Automatic, 00:02:02.170 --> 00:02:07.230 which was folded into the CRM solution that Jetpack has in it today. 00:02:07.930 --> 00:02:10.510 Mike: Yep, so it just became the CRM solution of Jetpack. 00:02:10.830 --> 00:02:15.150 So Jetpack didn't have a CRM offering at the time, and we 00:02:15.150 --> 00:02:16.340 wanted to fit it somewhere. 00:02:16.370 --> 00:02:20.480 So, the original product name had a swear name in, and a swear word in 00:02:20.480 --> 00:02:24.310 even, and one of the conditions of the acquisition was we don't have 00:02:24.310 --> 00:02:26.290 swear names in automatic products. 00:02:26.920 --> 00:02:27.460 So, 00:02:27.705 --> 00:02:29.285 Matt: an automatic thing to do. 00:02:29.305 --> 00:02:30.915 I mean, come on, let's keep it in there. 00:02:31.810 --> 00:02:37.325 Mike: So it was, So, BS CRM, and then we sort of Re branded it a 00:02:37.325 --> 00:02:41.485 little bit to just ZBS because like people could still understand like 00:02:41.485 --> 00:02:47.845 the BS in it and then Decided to either just re brand it under Jetpack 00:02:47.991 --> 00:02:51.821 Matt: I know why you named it that, because there's a lot of BS in CRM. 00:02:51.871 --> 00:02:53.201 and, we can talk about that. 00:02:53.201 --> 00:02:57.241 There's a lot of BS in In content marketing in the creator space, right? 00:02:57.241 --> 00:02:58.571 A lot of platforms out there. 00:02:59.181 --> 00:03:04.391 Largely I'd say the fact that things are so darn expensive when you 00:03:04.391 --> 00:03:08.701 get into the, like, you know, the enterprise space, which often dips 00:03:08.701 --> 00:03:10.741 down to, to the average creator. 00:03:10.961 --> 00:03:13.021 Perfect example would be like HubSpot, right? 00:03:13.021 --> 00:03:18.441 Where HubSpot is many, many thousands or tens of thousands a 00:03:18.441 --> 00:03:20.261 month for some brands out there. 00:03:20.551 --> 00:03:22.511 they try to dip down to the low end, right? 00:03:22.511 --> 00:03:25.271 Where, hey, just spend a couple hundred bucks for HubSpot. 00:03:25.271 --> 00:03:27.531 And then you get in there and not only was that expensive, 00:03:27.531 --> 00:03:29.071 but there's so much stuff in it. 00:03:29.511 --> 00:03:31.271 Do I need all this stuff? 00:03:31.301 --> 00:03:35.251 And I assume, I never used your product back in the day when 00:03:35.251 --> 00:03:37.921 you first launched it, but I assumed it was a more minimalistic 00:03:37.921 --> 00:03:39.781 approach to CRM inside WordPress? 00:03:40.481 --> 00:03:44.071 Mike: Yep, so that one started off on the back of, so the co founder's dad 00:03:44.121 --> 00:03:48.631 works in construction and he tried using Salesforce at the time and it was just too 00:03:48.631 --> 00:03:52.931 complicated and he just needed something simple to send invoices to his, people 00:03:52.931 --> 00:03:54.411 that he's putting roofs on houses to. 00:03:54.921 --> 00:03:58.161 And so we just built something very bare bones using custom post 00:03:58.171 --> 00:03:59.801 types at the time to sort of get. 00:04:00.616 --> 00:04:05.556 Easy to use for people that didn't want to do a masters in CRM software. 00:04:05.756 --> 00:04:09.746 And that was a similar theme that we had across, like, we had a few testimonials 00:04:09.746 --> 00:04:12.496 on the old YouTube channel of people just saying it's really good to be able 00:04:12.496 --> 00:04:17.876 to just use something integrated to my website without needing to learn all of 00:04:17.876 --> 00:04:22.646 this extra stuff and just pay a ton of, like, money to, like, the big players. 00:04:23.346 --> 00:04:29.446 Matt: I always wondered, the acquisition of your product into Jetpack. 00:04:29.476 --> 00:04:31.886 I always wondered, like, why roll it into Jetpack? 00:04:31.896 --> 00:04:33.816 Why not just leave it standalone? 00:04:33.826 --> 00:04:36.716 It seemed like it could be just a standalone product. 00:04:37.036 --> 00:04:40.996 I mean, I know Jetpack has, like, the modules these days and, or you 00:04:40.996 --> 00:04:44.466 can modularize it and you can say, I want this, I don't want that. 00:04:44.796 --> 00:04:47.316 I always felt like it would have been a great standalone product, just 00:04:47.316 --> 00:04:50.806 like I feel video video press would be an amazing standalone product 00:04:50.826 --> 00:04:52.686 where I don't need anything else. 00:04:52.696 --> 00:04:53.436 Even jetpack. 00:04:53.676 --> 00:04:54.776 Just give it to me straight. 00:04:55.036 --> 00:04:55.696 the video press. 00:04:55.696 --> 00:04:57.126 I say the same thing for CRM. 00:04:57.126 --> 00:04:59.576 What particular strategy? 00:04:59.576 --> 00:05:00.516 I mean, I get it now. 00:05:00.516 --> 00:05:03.856 I get the strategy, but what are the, what are the thoughts of like 00:05:03.866 --> 00:05:05.866 tying jetpack so closely to CRM? 00:05:06.566 --> 00:05:09.656 Mike: So it's down to the whole general strategy of the 00:05:09.656 --> 00:05:11.866 individual plugins now in Jetpack. 00:05:11.876 --> 00:05:13.696 So CRM was probably the first one. 00:05:14.176 --> 00:05:19.596 We wanted to fit it under an automatic brand, and Jetpack has a wider reach 00:05:19.596 --> 00:05:23.856 of websites that are using Jetpack and Connected and a number of business sites, 00:05:23.876 --> 00:05:28.716 and it fits quite well to these sort of smaller, probably even smaller than small 00:05:28.716 --> 00:05:32.881 business, so you wouldn't Like if it's a one man person trying to manage his, 00:05:32.981 --> 00:05:36.471 create a business, and he wants to start building a little bit more data around 00:05:36.471 --> 00:05:38.051 the people, then it fits in quite well. 00:05:38.831 --> 00:05:42.391 And so it sort of fitted into that side of things, was the 00:05:42.431 --> 00:05:43.701 sort of thinking around it. 00:05:44.161 --> 00:05:44.451 Matt: Yeah. 00:05:44.471 --> 00:05:45.561 Was your original product. 00:05:45.736 --> 00:05:47.286 Is it SaaS based? 00:05:47.951 --> 00:05:50.071 Mike: Now, it was always a WordPress plugin, so 00:05:50.116 --> 00:05:52.236 Matt: WordPress plugin data stays right inside WordPress. 00:05:52.606 --> 00:05:53.026 Mike: Yep. 00:05:53.176 --> 00:05:53.416 Yep. 00:05:53.566 --> 00:05:57.736 Which was quite popular in like definitely in Germany, so around GDPR. 00:05:57.766 --> 00:06:00.796 Like you, people want, wanted to keep their own data and not just have 00:06:00.796 --> 00:06:02.716 it sitting on the cloud somewhere. 00:06:02.746 --> 00:06:05.896 So that was like one of the main selling points of it at the time 00:06:05.896 --> 00:06:10.036 was that people just could have the data, download the data and not get 00:06:10.036 --> 00:06:13.246 worried about it going outta business and you're losing all your contacts. 00:06:13.276 --> 00:06:16.636 So that was a good, and we, and that's still the case today. 00:06:16.636 --> 00:06:20.386 It's still all in your own install, so you can take it 00:06:20.426 --> 00:06:20.696 Matt: okay. 00:06:20.696 --> 00:06:24.716 So even with Jetpack, it's not like hosted at com or something like that. 00:06:24.716 --> 00:06:27.346 That data still lives in the, in the database of the website. 00:06:28.106 --> 00:06:28.696 Mike: Correct, yep. 00:06:29.396 --> 00:06:30.196 Matt: Oh, that's fantastic. 00:06:31.496 --> 00:06:36.406 are you continuing to improve the CRM product and launch new features for that? 00:06:36.406 --> 00:06:40.966 Or is it more like publishing and content creation as a whole? 00:06:40.976 --> 00:06:42.576 Like we're about to get into with Jetpack. 00:06:43.016 --> 00:06:45.746 Do you all still invest in the CRM side of things? 00:06:46.621 --> 00:06:48.981 Mike: Yep, yep, so there's still work going on in the CRM. 00:06:49.151 --> 00:06:51.691 There's been a lot of like, bringing it in line with the 00:06:51.691 --> 00:06:53.351 Jetpack look and feel as well. 00:06:53.351 --> 00:06:57.981 So if you installed CRM before version 6, you'd just get the black 00:06:57.981 --> 00:07:01.171 and blues of the old, ZBS plugin. 00:07:01.641 --> 00:07:04.581 Whereas now it's moving more in line to fit in with 00:07:04.686 --> 00:07:06.716 Matt: Literally and figuratively the black and blue 00:07:07.296 --> 00:07:07.606 Mike: Yeah 00:07:07.656 --> 00:07:08.196 Matt: of Insta. 00:07:08.896 --> 00:07:11.976 Mike: So turning it green making it a bit more of a consistent view across all 00:07:11.976 --> 00:07:17.136 of the jetpack products and then Leaning into the creator side of things if you're 00:07:17.136 --> 00:07:21.526 building You subscribe a list, then you can then complement that with CRM. 00:07:21.576 --> 00:07:26.596 That's sort of the longer term plan there that like, if you try and remember, like 00:07:26.596 --> 00:07:30.986 we had this conversation before about our kids, we can make a little note about how 00:07:30.986 --> 00:07:32.466 many boys I've got, what age they are. 00:07:32.476 --> 00:07:35.006 And then when we talk again, you'd be like, Oh, what were the code? 00:07:35.036 --> 00:07:36.576 And you can just bring it up nice and easy. 00:07:36.646 --> 00:07:37.436 Matt: Maybe you can explain. 00:07:37.436 --> 00:07:39.686 I don't want to put, I don't want to put words into your mouth. 00:07:39.696 --> 00:07:43.956 But, like I, I'm really friendly with Jesse Friedman who is probably 00:07:43.956 --> 00:07:46.986 now doing WP cloud project. 00:07:47.486 --> 00:07:49.676 I know Jeff Galinsky, used to work for me. 00:07:49.676 --> 00:07:51.566 He designs for jet pack. 00:07:52.116 --> 00:07:57.726 I feel like You still have like that entrepreneurial spirit in you. 00:07:58.276 --> 00:07:59.376 Like I see your tweets. 00:07:59.696 --> 00:08:04.286 I see the way that, you know, like when you were talking about creator, is that 00:08:04.286 --> 00:08:07.806 something that they like entrust you with? 00:08:07.816 --> 00:08:10.256 Cause I feel like you might, you feel a little bit different than the 00:08:10.296 --> 00:08:12.406 average automatic employee, I guess. 00:08:12.416 --> 00:08:15.966 So like you seem like more of like a product guy, but you're out there like 00:08:15.966 --> 00:08:21.396 talking about it with more marketing speak my, is my compass correct with that? 00:08:21.396 --> 00:08:21.896 Or, or. 00:08:22.626 --> 00:08:24.116 Is it just like, Hey, you can't help yourself. 00:08:24.116 --> 00:08:25.006 This is the way you are. 00:08:25.806 --> 00:08:30.186 Mike: I think it's just ingrained in me in the, like, that's my passion is like. 00:08:30.886 --> 00:08:35.186 The product vision and just as a sign of your own business, you, you talk 00:08:35.196 --> 00:08:38.496 about it, you're building public and you try and get the word out more. 00:08:38.566 --> 00:08:43.356 And I sort of carried that across other Jetpack products that I've worked on. 00:08:43.356 --> 00:08:49.116 So creator was me just using Jetpack more noticing these areas and like, well, we 00:08:49.116 --> 00:08:53.436 could package this and present it in a way that, it displays the value of what's in 00:08:53.436 --> 00:08:55.206 Jetpack that might be quite hard to find. 00:08:56.036 --> 00:08:56.366 Matt: Yeah. 00:08:56.996 --> 00:09:02.516 I, I'm going to keep burying the lead of a jetpack creator for a few more moments. 00:09:02.996 --> 00:09:06.716 Jetpack has always been something that, obviously look, if you go 00:09:06.716 --> 00:09:10.576 back 10 years, there was a lot of bad sentiment around jetpack. 00:09:11.146 --> 00:09:12.516 I think it slowly has. 00:09:12.571 --> 00:09:17.651 You know, improved for, for the team, for the company, for the product itself. 00:09:17.651 --> 00:09:23.011 Like I think people are maybe less, opinionated about jet pack these days. 00:09:23.011 --> 00:09:23.641 Rightfully so. 00:09:23.641 --> 00:09:27.581 I think the product, you know, has become, In line with a lot of 00:09:28.181 --> 00:09:30.371 hardcore WordPress user expectations. 00:09:31.141 --> 00:09:34.601 For example, being able to uncheck and check off things that we 00:09:34.601 --> 00:09:39.101 don't want, you know, in the, in the install bloat and speed and 00:09:39.101 --> 00:09:40.561 performance was always the thing. 00:09:40.561 --> 00:09:44.331 I think the team has done a little bit better with that over the last few years. 00:09:45.031 --> 00:09:47.281 I would say that the goal, my, my. 00:09:47.821 --> 00:09:53.491 Hypothesis to the goal is Jetpack looks at WordPress and says, this is 00:09:53.491 --> 00:09:55.521 the best way to experience WordPress. 00:09:56.151 --> 00:10:00.691 How far off am I from that theory or hypothesis? 00:10:01.391 --> 00:10:04.951 Mike: I think it gets closer every day, the more that the team works 00:10:04.951 --> 00:10:06.431 on like the performance plugin. 00:10:06.441 --> 00:10:07.861 So Jetpack Boost is out there. 00:10:08.261 --> 00:10:11.821 And because we're behind a performance plugin, then we need to make sure 00:10:11.821 --> 00:10:13.361 that Jetpack is also performant. 00:10:13.631 --> 00:10:17.551 So we have the performance team, not only looking at making websites faster, 00:10:17.551 --> 00:10:22.721 but looking at like on the admin pages, like what are we being as efficient as 00:10:22.721 --> 00:10:27.781 we can be there and always like making modules easy to turn off, to turn 00:10:27.781 --> 00:10:29.451 on and just only use what you need. 00:10:29.581 --> 00:10:32.931 Matt: because Jetpack does have like so many things, right? 00:10:33.031 --> 00:10:35.161 Stats, payment. 00:10:35.161 --> 00:10:37.391 I mean, there's a million things in there that you probably 00:10:37.391 --> 00:10:39.141 know about way more than I do. 00:10:39.461 --> 00:10:39.791 but. 00:10:40.146 --> 00:10:45.216 I'll use Jetpack on a friend's site, you know, a friend comes to me, here's 00:10:45.216 --> 00:10:48.906 an example, I have a friend, actually he's my barber, and he started a small, 00:10:48.906 --> 00:10:53.636 like, little ice cream stand, and, it's seasonal, so it's not open, you know, 00:10:53.636 --> 00:10:58.176 year round, and I helped him build a site, and I put Jetpack on it, because 00:10:58.196 --> 00:11:03.026 one, he was using, like, affordable hosting, we all know what that means, 00:11:03.066 --> 00:11:09.461 so I use Jetpack for the CDN, you know, for the images, For the stats, and for 00:11:09.461 --> 00:11:11.291 the newsletter subscription, right? 00:11:11.291 --> 00:11:13.901 So, you know, just subscribe to the, to the, to the post. 00:11:13.901 --> 00:11:16.491 And when he updates a post, people will get the, the email 00:11:16.491 --> 00:11:18.511 notification, and of course security. 00:11:18.511 --> 00:11:18.781 So. 00:11:19.176 --> 00:11:22.206 It would to me, it was like, man, I don't want to mess with this website. 00:11:22.236 --> 00:11:25.406 I never want him asking me any questions about it because I'm 00:11:25.406 --> 00:11:26.696 not going to be his support guy. 00:11:27.006 --> 00:11:30.366 so I put jetpack, I certainly wasn't going to give him like Google analytics and I 00:11:30.366 --> 00:11:34.116 wasn't going to sign up for, whatever, MailChimp account, like I wasn't going 00:11:34.116 --> 00:11:37.236 to even like go to that route because I didn't want to teach him, train him. 00:11:37.236 --> 00:11:38.226 And I knew we would forget. 00:11:38.606 --> 00:11:39.356 and jetpack was. 00:11:39.591 --> 00:11:41.851 Was a good solution for that. 00:11:41.981 --> 00:11:46.711 it's a interesting thing to say because there's a lot of my friends, probably 00:11:46.711 --> 00:11:51.131 your friends and colleagues too, who build products that compete with Jetpack. 00:11:51.661 --> 00:11:57.071 What I'm getting at here is Jetpack is going to be one of those things where with 00:11:57.071 --> 00:11:59.171 enough users might say, you know what? 00:11:59.171 --> 00:12:01.651 Just use Jetpack, to solve that issue. 00:12:01.901 --> 00:12:03.421 That might also impact. 00:12:03.801 --> 00:12:08.191 The smaller product creator that's out there who maybe is doing stats, 00:12:08.191 --> 00:12:12.661 who is maybe doing a newsletter, who's maybe doing a payment link as a product 00:12:12.661 --> 00:12:14.351 owner, yourself, a product creator. 00:12:14.931 --> 00:12:17.791 Do you think about that when you're, when you're rolling out the products, 00:12:17.791 --> 00:12:20.961 like how to integrate into the ecosystem? 00:12:21.531 --> 00:12:24.781 is it the, you know, the most fit products win at the end of the day? 00:12:24.781 --> 00:12:28.761 Like, do you have an ear to the ground of sort of the blue collar 00:12:28.781 --> 00:12:30.061 product maker that's out there? 00:12:30.761 --> 00:12:34.881 Mike: yeah, so I personally follow quite a lot of indie makers and like 00:12:35.181 --> 00:12:39.051 the product people and certainly in the UK, there's very few of us in that 00:12:39.461 --> 00:12:43.966 have done products and have Essentially a few have taken to acquisition. 00:12:44.136 --> 00:12:48.176 So and there's a lot of people building different things So I think the fact 00:12:48.176 --> 00:12:52.166 that automatic it might be in jetpack and we're leaning into a certain direction 00:12:52.626 --> 00:12:56.686 I think just helps with the healthy competition of some of these smaller, 00:12:56.806 --> 00:13:01.466 indie developers that can Even if they're focused on the right thing if they like 00:13:01.616 --> 00:13:07.256 know Directly down on a small area, they can even execute better than a bigger 00:13:07.916 --> 00:13:09.656 organization organization could do. 00:13:09.846 --> 00:13:15.066 So I think it helps with, with that, that the fact that so a company like 00:13:15.066 --> 00:13:19.266 automatic is looking at the creative space and offering tools to help 00:13:19.276 --> 00:13:23.646 people grow newsletters that the other newsletter plugins will be sort of taking 00:13:23.646 --> 00:13:27.396 note and thinking, okay, I can take a little share of this market as well. 00:13:28.031 --> 00:13:34.801 Matt: I just recorded a news roundtable for the WP minute plus podcast and We 00:13:34.801 --> 00:13:37.181 were talking about let's say wordpress. 00:13:37.191 --> 00:13:41.301 com versus jetpack versus woo Express and woo. 00:13:41.461 --> 00:13:45.991 com and like you had All of these different pockets of like ways to 00:13:45.991 --> 00:13:51.201 do things with WordPress all under the umbrella of, of automatic and it 00:13:51.201 --> 00:13:52.841 makes it pretty challenging, right? 00:13:52.851 --> 00:13:57.171 So if somebody came to you at automatic and they say, Hey, Mike, the goal 00:13:57.201 --> 00:13:59.501 is to launch something for creators. 00:14:00.291 --> 00:14:04.061 But you have to do it with just like the tools you have right here. 00:14:04.181 --> 00:14:06.431 Like we're not going to give you wordpresscreator. 00:14:07.211 --> 00:14:07.621 com. 00:14:07.621 --> 00:14:07.991 No, no, no. 00:14:07.991 --> 00:14:11.221 You're going to do this in the, in the thick of all of these things, 00:14:11.421 --> 00:14:13.141 the jetpack stack, the wordpress. 00:14:13.171 --> 00:14:13.861 com stack. 00:14:13.861 --> 00:14:14.661 I don't think it's fair. 00:14:14.661 --> 00:14:18.231 I think it makes your job a little bit more challenging because. 00:14:18.541 --> 00:14:22.251 WordPress can do so many things and WordPress and automatic itself 00:14:22.951 --> 00:14:28.451 doesn't give like the tight funnel lane on how to achieve that. 00:14:28.601 --> 00:14:31.271 Like sell things with your WordPress website. 00:14:31.291 --> 00:14:33.631 It's massive WooCommerce. 00:14:34.091 --> 00:14:35.211 Become a blogger. 00:14:35.221 --> 00:14:39.311 It's the entirety of WordPress and the ecosystem at wordpress. 00:14:39.311 --> 00:14:39.641 com. 00:14:40.171 --> 00:14:44.401 It's be a creator, like maybe say ghost or beehive. 00:14:44.751 --> 00:14:48.671 but those are real tight UIs that do one specific thing. 00:14:49.511 --> 00:14:52.691 We don't get that in the WordPress world, or maybe it's just 00:14:52.701 --> 00:14:54.621 slow baby steps to get there. 00:14:55.231 --> 00:14:59.031 is Jetpack Creator that initial step in that direction? 00:14:59.731 --> 00:15:01.821 Mike: I think it's starting to pull things together that way. 00:15:01.981 --> 00:15:07.441 So if you try to use it today, the, like I say, that type, somebody new 00:15:07.441 --> 00:15:10.791 to it, wanting to create something, there's a lot of different directions. 00:15:10.801 --> 00:15:14.011 So if you're creating a course, you, it's not just Jetpack Creator, 00:15:14.081 --> 00:15:17.541 you'd need to look at something like Sensei, Sensei on the side. 00:15:18.031 --> 00:15:22.111 And so there's, like, if you wanted to run a community, then it, you'd look at Again, 00:15:22.141 --> 00:15:26.171 thinking of WordPress, things like a buddy press alongside the type of things. 00:15:26.181 --> 00:15:29.471 So the, it's sort of trying to bring that together a little bit. 00:15:29.551 --> 00:15:34.711 And, but those like definitely you, UX flows of somebody coming in with a 00:15:34.711 --> 00:15:39.751 specific like vertical that's, I think that's still got a way to go, but I 00:15:39.751 --> 00:15:43.881 think that it is starting to happen more in like the word, the WordPress 00:15:44.031 --> 00:15:47.141 community, like the Ollie WP theme. 00:15:47.181 --> 00:15:49.546 That's been some good steps in life. 00:15:49.546 --> 00:15:52.016 What, what is a theme and what is a plugin? 00:15:52.036 --> 00:15:54.986 And there's some other similar things like that, that are leaning on the 00:15:55.316 --> 00:15:57.996 Gutenberg side of things to say, look, you can create this, but we're 00:15:57.996 --> 00:15:59.606 going to make it a little bit easier. 00:16:00.366 --> 00:16:03.836 Because I've got a number of friends that like, maybe try and do something 00:16:03.836 --> 00:16:06.376 with WordPress, and then they'll just jump to another solution. 00:16:06.396 --> 00:16:10.266 Because it's like, oh, this, I'm being shown all these extra areas, like 00:16:10.646 --> 00:16:11.906 that I'm not really interested in. 00:16:12.621 --> 00:16:16.061 Matt: And maybe we'll see a future where, when the admin gets redesigned. 00:16:16.541 --> 00:16:18.791 Because I'm not a developer, so I have no idea, like, what 00:16:18.841 --> 00:16:21.021 kind of effort this takes. 00:16:21.391 --> 00:16:25.391 but when the admin gets redesigned, maybe turned into blocks, 00:16:25.411 --> 00:16:27.441 it might be easier to build. 00:16:27.961 --> 00:16:31.641 An admin experience that is more, you know. 00:16:31.871 --> 00:16:33.711 Pinpoint to like what we want to do. 00:16:33.741 --> 00:16:37.341 Oh, only show posts because listen, anybody just, they're just here to make 00:16:37.351 --> 00:16:40.261 blog posts or show products and pages. 00:16:40.271 --> 00:16:43.191 Cause it's just a basic e commerce site and never have a blog on 00:16:43.191 --> 00:16:44.431 it or something to that effect. 00:16:44.741 --> 00:16:48.761 And maybe WordPress can become more modular because I'm using 00:16:48.761 --> 00:16:52.021 a P2 instance for my WP minute. 00:16:52.481 --> 00:16:56.361 some of my WP minute members and like P2 is pretty cool. 00:16:57.061 --> 00:17:00.771 It's still just WordPress like, like it doesn't like, it's like, man, 00:17:00.771 --> 00:17:05.131 you could compete against like a slack or a teams with, with P2, but 00:17:05.131 --> 00:17:08.511 no, it's still kind of just like rough around the WordPress edges. 00:17:08.961 --> 00:17:11.451 you know, which is not your fault, but it's just like, there's so 00:17:11.451 --> 00:17:13.911 many things that WordPress does and automatics trying to solve it, 00:17:13.931 --> 00:17:17.301 it can kind of make, you know, the task a little bit more challenging. 00:17:18.001 --> 00:17:21.721 Mike: Yeah, and P2 definitely, it's got some cool features that I kind 00:17:21.721 --> 00:17:24.251 of wish were available elsewhere. 00:17:24.281 --> 00:17:28.061 So like the mention system and a lot of the things there that are, it's 00:17:28.061 --> 00:17:32.781 sort of like a good thing to start a community, but then on the other side 00:17:32.781 --> 00:17:35.391 of it, it's very more like workspaces. 00:17:35.411 --> 00:17:38.351 So you create a workspace as opposed to a community. 00:17:38.351 --> 00:17:43.471 So it could be another angle that P2 would fit would be if someone 00:17:43.471 --> 00:17:44.461 wants to create a community. 00:17:44.461 --> 00:17:46.331 So like the WP minute podcast. 00:17:46.691 --> 00:17:49.401 Or like a post status that, instead of being on slack, could 00:17:49.401 --> 00:17:51.551 be running on something like P2. 00:17:52.181 --> 00:17:54.581 Matt: If you're listening to this mad, I'm using P two hook, hook us 00:17:54.581 --> 00:17:56.751 up, Let's get, let's get things going. 00:17:57.141 --> 00:17:57.351 All right. 00:17:57.351 --> 00:17:58.941 Let's talk about, Jetpack creator. 00:17:59.641 --> 00:18:02.491 Is it modules collected together? 00:18:02.581 --> 00:18:03.541 I keep calling 'em modules. 00:18:03.541 --> 00:18:04.441 They're, they're modules, right? 00:18:04.441 --> 00:18:05.971 Is that what j, how Jetpack refers to 'em 00:18:06.496 --> 00:18:07.136 Mike: Yeah, it does. 00:18:07.606 --> 00:18:09.696 So it's sort of a little bit of blocks. 00:18:09.706 --> 00:18:13.926 So I don't know if you've, when you sort of start a new post in WordPress 00:18:13.956 --> 00:18:17.166 and you press the little plus button in the corner, if you type Jetpack, it'll 00:18:17.166 --> 00:18:19.876 bring up a load of green colored blocks. 00:18:19.886 --> 00:18:23.606 So that's all of the tools that you can use to help create content. 00:18:23.606 --> 00:18:25.066 So things like you can embed a. 00:18:25.936 --> 00:18:27.686 A link to booking slots on your calendar. 00:18:27.716 --> 00:18:29.126 You can do business hours. 00:18:29.576 --> 00:18:34.516 There's the AI block that helps you create content or edit content. 00:18:34.576 --> 00:18:39.126 so there's a lot of tools in Jetpack already that You can find if you know 00:18:39.126 --> 00:18:41.606 what block you're looking for, but if you if you don't you're sort of a 00:18:41.606 --> 00:18:46.306 little bit in the wild so things like a map box so if you want to show like 00:18:46.306 --> 00:18:50.006 where your office location is, there's a nice straightforward Jetpack block 00:18:50.046 --> 00:18:51.366 that can do things like that for you. 00:18:52.206 --> 00:18:56.316 And unless you go looking for it, we don't really show it anywhere 00:18:56.326 --> 00:18:57.966 in like the Jetpack settings pages. 00:18:58.666 --> 00:19:02.266 So that's sort of like the first thing, is making content a little bit easier 00:19:02.386 --> 00:19:04.286 to create through blocks and patterns. 00:19:04.326 --> 00:19:08.186 There's not really many patterns shipped in Jetpack just yet, but there are 00:19:08.976 --> 00:19:13.846 plenty of blocks and you can build them with any sort of block based theme. 00:19:14.391 --> 00:19:18.301 Matt: When somebody is subscribing to creator, so I'm just looking at the site. 00:19:18.301 --> 00:19:23.251 We're recording this during, a pretty hefty 70 percent off now, black Friday 00:19:23.281 --> 00:19:28.371 week, this is going to air a couple of weeks after, the sale, but it's 19 a 00:19:28.381 --> 00:19:31.951 month, for the first year build yearly. 00:19:32.051 --> 00:19:33.831 I believe that's what it's going to be without the discount. 00:19:34.081 --> 00:19:34.541 Is that. 00:19:35.241 --> 00:19:39.281 just these specific features in Jetpack, or is there like a whole other sort 00:19:39.281 --> 00:19:41.831 of creator plugin being installed? 00:19:42.476 --> 00:19:45.366 Mike: And it just enables them, the features that are in Jetpack. 00:19:45.686 --> 00:19:48.766 So there's no plug in, stand alone plug in for this yet. 00:19:48.826 --> 00:19:52.466 It's all running from Jetpack on that side of things. 00:19:52.566 --> 00:19:57.206 as for the, so it'll be the first year you get a 50 percent discount. 00:19:57.206 --> 00:19:59.036 So it's showing, 00:19:59.131 --> 00:19:59.731 Matt: bucks a month. 00:19:59.896 --> 00:20:03.846 Mike: yeah, so 10 bucks a month once the Black Friday discounts drop off. 00:20:03.896 --> 00:20:07.476 but yeah, so it's, if you, you can do a lot of it. 00:20:08.176 --> 00:20:11.386 Pretty much all of it for free, with just Jetpack, but the transaction 00:20:11.386 --> 00:20:12.356 fees are a little bit higher. 00:20:12.406 --> 00:20:16.306 If you were to use the donation block and start accepting donations, then 00:20:16.786 --> 00:20:20.376 there'd be a bit higher transaction fee on top of the Stripe fees. 00:20:21.036 --> 00:20:26.206 So there's nothing in Creator at the moment that's really, that you 00:20:26.206 --> 00:20:28.446 can't try for free in the free one. 00:20:28.526 --> 00:20:32.036 There's a few, like things around the creator network that are a 00:20:32.036 --> 00:20:36.666 little bit different if you're a paid subscriber or a free user and we can 00:20:36.666 --> 00:20:38.466 talk about that a little bit more. 00:20:39.066 --> 00:20:43.216 So, there's not new blocks that we'll unlock if you subscribe. 00:20:44.116 --> 00:20:45.536 Everything's already in Jetpack. 00:20:45.843 --> 00:20:51.233 Matt: When you and the team set off to build the sort of creator package Jetpack 00:20:51.243 --> 00:20:56.713 and make this sort of creator offering, is it sort of trying to compete with 00:20:56.913 --> 00:21:00.573 some of the folks I mentioned before, like a substack or a ghost, where 00:21:00.953 --> 00:21:04.873 It is sort of one of these, turnkey solutions that does one or two things 00:21:04.873 --> 00:21:09.543 really good or, or do you see Jetpack Creator competing with something else? 00:21:10.243 --> 00:21:11.643 Mike: So there's a lot of work being done on WordPress. 00:21:12.033 --> 00:21:17.813 com around Competing with like the, the substacks and Jetpack historically 00:21:17.813 --> 00:21:19.293 has been you get the best of WordPress. 00:21:19.333 --> 00:21:21.003 com on your self hosted site. 00:21:21.023 --> 00:21:24.063 So Creator is essentially unlocking all of the work that's been done 00:21:24.063 --> 00:21:28.813 there for people that are just hosting their own self hosted website. 00:21:29.443 --> 00:21:29.653 So that's. 00:21:30.353 --> 00:21:34.443 What it's competing with, so any enhancements that are made to how fast 00:21:34.443 --> 00:21:38.483 you get subscribers or where your site's recommended across the WordPress reader, 00:21:38.573 --> 00:21:41.653 there's a lot of, it's just enabling that for people that are using Jetpack 00:21:41.703 --> 00:21:44.233 that wouldn't be part of that otherwise. 00:21:44.933 --> 00:21:48.583 Matt: I'm curious, do you all have a definition for a creator? 00:21:48.583 --> 00:21:53.023 Like a user, a customer avatar, you know, back in my agency days, kind of 00:21:53.023 --> 00:21:56.933 profile who somebody is, come up with a fake name, what their interests are, 00:21:56.933 --> 00:22:01.313 how they approach it, like, what, how do you, how do you think of a creator? 00:22:01.313 --> 00:22:03.643 What, what does she do with her website? 00:22:04.343 --> 00:22:07.473 Mike: I think it covers a lot of different people, so from 00:22:07.863 --> 00:22:12.343 podcasters to even just like personal trainers that are wanting to. 00:22:12.868 --> 00:22:13.888 Take the business online. 00:22:13.898 --> 00:22:17.388 There was a lot of it that happening during COVID that the gyms had to shut. 00:22:17.488 --> 00:22:21.108 So a lot of personal trainers would go on and they'd start doing zooms. 00:22:21.608 --> 00:22:26.578 So, or having like a 12 week training program and just having 00:22:26.578 --> 00:22:30.698 that ability to have a website that can do that sort of stuff. 00:22:30.758 --> 00:22:33.368 so there's a lot of different angles you could go. 00:22:33.408 --> 00:22:37.098 You could even go as far as like, a cat rescue that wants to start. 00:22:37.798 --> 00:22:42.168 Accepting donations, so they can set all that up, without really, they can, 00:22:42.918 --> 00:22:45.658 worrying too much about paying a lot for hosting and anything like that, they 00:22:45.668 --> 00:22:49.618 can get up, get Jetpack installed and start setting up and accepting donations. 00:22:50.318 --> 00:22:53.408 So there's a lot of different angles you could look at, which is 00:22:53.408 --> 00:22:58.158 the most used creator use case is a completely different question. 00:22:58.178 --> 00:22:59.168 So I think it depends. 00:22:59.308 --> 00:22:59.578 Matt: Yeah, 00:23:00.278 --> 00:23:04.528 Mike: It's targeting a lot of different verticals that you could cover. 00:23:04.528 --> 00:23:09.288 So the blogger, the YouTuber, that could start putting content using something 00:23:09.288 --> 00:23:10.818 like Videopress instead of YouTube. 00:23:10.878 --> 00:23:17.118 But then YouTube does bring other benefits to being on YouTube as you're well aware. 00:23:17.918 --> 00:23:23.728 Matt: In this day and age, which, listen, I am a still a diehard, blog, own your. 00:23:23.948 --> 00:23:27.618 com, like have your website, build your foundation, you know, obviously using 00:23:27.618 --> 00:23:32.208 WordPress, but over the last few years, which is still funny to say, because 00:23:32.208 --> 00:23:34.328 it's really like over the last 20 years. 00:23:35.013 --> 00:23:37.553 Marketers are always saying, like, grow your email list, have an 00:23:37.563 --> 00:23:39.053 email list, that kind of thing. 00:23:39.753 --> 00:23:43.923 Is there a sense of, like, what creators use more in terms of, 00:23:44.113 --> 00:23:48.103 of what kind of content they're creating with WordPress and Jetpack? 00:23:48.103 --> 00:23:50.273 Is it still blogs? 00:23:50.313 --> 00:23:54.323 Are you seeing a rise in email newsletter, creation? 00:23:54.323 --> 00:23:56.713 Like, what is that, that content that's being created most? 00:23:57.413 --> 00:23:58.233 Mike: That's a good question. 00:23:58.933 --> 00:24:03.023 So I think it's my gut sort of saying this people are still blogging a lot 00:24:03.073 --> 00:24:06.683 and the more people that blog the more people that want to blog and then the 00:24:06.873 --> 00:24:10.963 the network effect sort of picks up that the more people that are writing the more 00:24:10.963 --> 00:24:16.273 people that can find things to follow so it feels like with WordPress that like 00:24:16.653 --> 00:24:22.078 taking E commerce to one side like people are trying to do that and build their 00:24:22.078 --> 00:24:26.878 own following because like it say you do it on Twitter or X and then there's 00:24:26.878 --> 00:24:31.888 a big platform risk there that if you can't really get at your contacts or 00:24:31.978 --> 00:24:37.158 they shut down whereas if you're building something that you own and that I think 00:24:37.168 --> 00:24:41.238 it's still people are trying to grow lists and trying to Then monetize those 00:24:41.238 --> 00:24:45.238 lists, and there's a lot of different ways now that is easier in WordPress that 00:24:45.458 --> 00:24:47.488 maybe wasn't as easy a few years ago. 00:24:47.528 --> 00:24:51.508 So things like accepting paid subscribers, so you could be growing a list, you 00:24:51.508 --> 00:24:55.648 could have 10, 000 subscribers, and then have specific content going 00:24:55.658 --> 00:24:58.588 out just to people that are paying you a certain amount per month to 00:24:58.598 --> 00:25:00.408 be part of a community, for example. 00:25:00.918 --> 00:25:03.748 So there's a lot of different things now, and I think it all just comes to you. 00:25:04.448 --> 00:25:06.528 There's a lot of different ways to put content out there. 00:25:06.548 --> 00:25:11.648 So whether it's a YouTube channel, a Twitter account, a TikTok, but ideally 00:25:11.648 --> 00:25:15.568 you want to get everything, you want to get that person's email to then 00:25:16.268 --> 00:25:20.368 either, depending on like your goal, do you want to make money from your 00:25:20.368 --> 00:25:23.278 email list or do you just want to have an impact with the content you produce? 00:25:23.368 --> 00:25:26.608 So, at the end of the day, you just, you want that audience to 00:25:27.358 --> 00:25:30.978 be able to feel good about what you produce as a content creator. 00:25:31.773 --> 00:25:35.403 And it's, it's not easy, like, I think you've been 00:25:35.443 --> 00:25:37.293 podcasting over 10 years now and 00:25:37.433 --> 00:25:37.763 Matt: Mm hmm. 00:25:38.463 --> 00:25:42.093 Mike: you need to be passionate for what you do, like the thing on the underlying 00:25:42.093 --> 00:25:46.063 thing with creator, like if you use Jetpack, if you pay for the creator plan, 00:25:46.103 --> 00:25:51.773 it's not going to fix the issue that you need to be producing that good content 00:25:51.933 --> 00:25:53.763 and consistently producing that content. 00:25:54.413 --> 00:25:57.503 It just makes it easier with the introduction of AI. 00:25:58.233 --> 00:26:03.083 Maybe not make as many typing mistakes or If you need a bit of help, like 00:26:03.103 --> 00:26:07.213 getting the skeleton of a, an article or some ideas for some new videos, then 00:26:07.213 --> 00:26:09.303 you can use the AI to help with that. 00:26:09.663 --> 00:26:13.073 But in the end, you still have to be putting out that content consistently. 00:26:13.073 --> 00:26:16.023 And because otherwise it's sort of like, I always. 00:26:16.633 --> 00:26:20.473 Liking it to turning on a TV channel and then if there's no content you just 00:26:20.473 --> 00:26:24.353 see that fuzzy Screen or the one with the person holding the doll saying like 00:26:24.383 --> 00:26:28.423 programs will resume shortly that no one's going to Want to follow you if 00:26:28.443 --> 00:26:29.993 you're just not producing the content 00:26:30.693 --> 00:26:30.963 Matt: yeah. 00:26:31.628 --> 00:26:34.798 Mike: And it's it is hard to do it's hard to do consistently 00:26:34.938 --> 00:26:39.463 if it's not your main 95 00:26:39.603 --> 00:26:44.263 Matt: so there is definitely a, desire, you know, a lot of people 00:26:44.263 --> 00:26:47.023 look at becoming a creator, right? 00:26:47.153 --> 00:26:49.113 yeah, becoming a YouTuber, right? 00:26:49.143 --> 00:26:52.853 If you focus on, and I come from a unique angle, right? 00:26:52.853 --> 00:26:58.208 Because I've, I've I've been podcasting for over a decade, never stopped. 00:26:58.828 --> 00:27:02.538 Well, I mean, I stopped, but I switched from season to season or whatever, 00:27:02.538 --> 00:27:05.618 but I haven't, I haven't quit the, the medium, my YouTube channel 00:27:05.618 --> 00:27:08.188 just crossed 15, 000 subscribers. 00:27:08.648 --> 00:27:12.818 And I worked in the audio industry, my last role for two and a half years at 00:27:12.818 --> 00:27:16.768 a podcast hosting company that actually automatic, had some seed investment in. 00:27:17.468 --> 00:27:20.558 And I had, I talked to a lot of podcasters that were like, Hey. 00:27:21.043 --> 00:27:23.693 I want to make money with my podcast, right? 00:27:23.693 --> 00:27:27.483 They just thought they could just publish the podcast and money would appear. 00:27:28.083 --> 00:27:34.353 which is sort of like what YouTube has granted upon creators for many years. 00:27:34.353 --> 00:27:38.313 Like you get to a certain threshold, you get to a certain amount of views. 00:27:39.153 --> 00:27:43.763 And if it's a quality audience, you're making, X amount of dollars per month. 00:27:43.823 --> 00:27:47.223 It could be hundreds of dollars per month, thousands of dollars 00:27:47.223 --> 00:27:49.323 a month, many multiples of that. 00:27:49.323 --> 00:27:53.403 If you're like crazy, like pop culture, YouTube created with 00:27:53.403 --> 00:27:57.813 millions of subscribers, but you hit the nail on the head is that you 00:27:57.813 --> 00:27:59.553 can't give up creating this content. 00:27:59.973 --> 00:28:04.943 And there are not many other platforms other than YouTube that actually, air 00:28:04.943 --> 00:28:07.823 quotes, guarantees payments to creators. 00:28:08.053 --> 00:28:11.053 In other words, Instagram's not paying me to do anything. 00:28:11.133 --> 00:28:14.793 Twitter doesn't, although they have a program that I think you can get 00:28:15.493 --> 00:28:20.013 sponsored dollars from, but it's like a top secret program or something like that. 00:28:20.153 --> 00:28:21.693 Or you have to have like this massive reach. 00:28:22.383 --> 00:28:24.573 Jetpack has, through wordpress. 00:28:24.573 --> 00:28:25.903 com, Blaze? 00:28:26.293 --> 00:28:27.443 Is that a way? 00:28:28.168 --> 00:28:30.608 To monetize, through Jetpack Creator. 00:28:31.328 --> 00:28:36.058 Mike: Blaze is promoting your content, so it's, yeah. 00:28:36.318 --> 00:28:38.298 So, the other way around is Word Ads. 00:28:38.338 --> 00:28:42.698 So you can, again, through a creator that unlocks the Word Ads network, 00:28:42.698 --> 00:28:47.168 so you can start showing ads on your content through, a number of ad 00:28:47.168 --> 00:28:48.718 partners that partner with WordPress. 00:28:48.838 --> 00:28:52.318 So that's a way to monetize the traffic to your website. 00:28:52.338 --> 00:28:55.418 So it's just, it's not quite a Google AdSense, but it's similar. 00:28:55.478 --> 00:29:00.488 So you'll see similar types of adverts popping up on your So we've got a 00:29:00.488 --> 00:29:05.568 travel blog that I've enabled word ads on and things like loveholidays. 00:29:05.598 --> 00:29:07.378 com is popping up at the bottom of those. 00:29:07.793 --> 00:29:11.663 Content, I don't get a ton of traffic to that travel blog because we've 00:29:12.163 --> 00:29:16.523 unfortunately stopped traveling since having boys So it's sort of like again, 00:29:16.523 --> 00:29:17.683 we're not producing that content. 00:29:17.693 --> 00:29:22.463 We're not doing like those influencer marketing where you're standing on 00:29:22.463 --> 00:29:25.883 the edge of a waterfall and, like walking down into the pool, like 00:29:25.893 --> 00:29:27.383 not wearing very many clothes. 00:29:28.083 --> 00:29:31.923 So like we don't do that sort of stuff, so we're not getting that type of, hardly 00:29:31.923 --> 00:29:35.773 any traffic to that site, but if we were producing more and more content, then that 00:29:35.793 --> 00:29:41.283 is one way to monetize the, the traffic that you're having to your website. 00:29:41.983 --> 00:29:43.153 Matt: it's a challenging thing, right? 00:29:43.153 --> 00:29:44.843 And it's something that I think is going away. 00:29:44.863 --> 00:29:51.003 I mean, I've seen my ad dollars from YouTube, get cut in half, get cut in half 00:29:51.003 --> 00:29:53.513 again, get cut in half again, you know? 00:29:53.793 --> 00:29:56.273 And it's just like, wow, this is a tough game. 00:29:56.273 --> 00:29:59.243 There's a lot of people who aspire to do these types of things. 00:29:59.773 --> 00:30:04.388 And, you know, even with Tools like you're providing and YouTube. 00:30:04.388 --> 00:30:09.308 I'm still a big believer and you're going to have to Understand that if you're 00:30:09.488 --> 00:30:13.188 if you're looking to make any kind of substantial amount of money through 00:30:13.188 --> 00:30:17.948 content creation That you have to look at it objectively as a business you have 00:30:17.948 --> 00:30:24.108 to approach it as a business and you have to think like a business where Half 00:30:24.108 --> 00:30:25.488 your time is spent creating content. 00:30:25.498 --> 00:30:28.938 The other half is going to be doing like direct sales, and 00:30:28.938 --> 00:30:30.448 partnerships and sponsorships. 00:30:30.448 --> 00:30:33.138 It's what I've done with the WP minute again, unless you are. 00:30:33.713 --> 00:30:38.353 Half naked jumping into a pool off the, off of skyscraper, then most 00:30:38.353 --> 00:30:41.083 people aren't going to, going to click that, that YouTube video. 00:30:41.083 --> 00:30:44.283 If it's just an average video, then you're going to, you're 00:30:44.283 --> 00:30:45.733 going to see less traffic. 00:30:45.733 --> 00:30:47.673 If you're not posting, you're going to see less traffic. 00:30:47.673 --> 00:30:49.853 If you're not recording audio, you're going to see less traffic. 00:30:50.373 --> 00:30:51.433 And it's a lot of work. 00:30:51.783 --> 00:30:53.883 Yeah, I don't have a direct question there, but the 00:30:53.883 --> 00:30:56.193 creator space is challenging. 00:30:56.563 --> 00:30:57.753 the money doesn't just show up. 00:30:57.753 --> 00:31:00.743 Like you have to put in the work for this stuff to, to, 00:31:01.483 --> 00:31:02.623 to become a business for you. 00:31:03.323 --> 00:31:04.393 Mike: Yep, I agree with that. 00:31:04.593 --> 00:31:08.933 So it's, for the people that are starting out, like I said 00:31:08.933 --> 00:31:11.333 earlier, it's not the magic pill. 00:31:11.373 --> 00:31:14.883 It's not the diet pill that you're going to lose 20 pounds overnight. 00:31:15.343 --> 00:31:20.263 You have to be creating that content and just sort of like, whether you're 00:31:20.323 --> 00:31:24.063 also tweeting at the same time, or you do like a video version or 00:31:24.063 --> 00:31:25.843 a podcast version that's then on. 00:31:26.268 --> 00:31:30.628 The various, podcast apps that is getting every little bit 00:31:30.628 --> 00:31:31.728 of content you've produced. 00:31:31.728 --> 00:31:34.848 It's sort of like, how can you repurpose that and amplify that? 00:31:34.918 --> 00:31:39.668 So there's, again, I'm, I'm keep sort of leaning to different areas of Jetpack. 00:31:39.708 --> 00:31:43.378 So with Jetpack social, then you can write and it'll ping it out 00:31:43.378 --> 00:31:47.188 to all of those networks of, like Twitter used to be automatic, but 00:31:47.188 --> 00:31:49.348 now there's just like a very quick. 00:31:49.873 --> 00:31:53.893 One click share option that's came out in the last, I think the last release of 00:31:54.113 --> 00:31:57.303 Jetpack so that you can continue to You write your content and then you can just 00:31:57.303 --> 00:32:02.883 click and share it to Twitter And there's Mastodon is another one that sort of 00:32:02.883 --> 00:32:04.733 getting your content out in more places. 00:32:04.733 --> 00:32:08.663 You're likely to get more people to come and find your website and then 00:32:08.663 --> 00:32:14.413 hopefully subscribe to a Newsletter or to the particular blog post comments 00:32:14.433 --> 00:32:16.223 or whatever else that you're producing 00:32:16.223 --> 00:32:18.783 Matt: I want to wrap it up with, one other question here. 00:32:18.783 --> 00:32:20.483 So I'm looking again, looking at the pricing page. 00:32:20.483 --> 00:32:25.183 There's a, for creator, there's a 2 percent transaction fee. 00:32:25.193 --> 00:32:26.723 Is that going on? 00:32:26.933 --> 00:32:28.433 Where does that, where does that come into play? 00:32:28.433 --> 00:32:29.823 The 2 percent transaction fee. 00:32:30.318 --> 00:32:34.948 Mike: So that's only if you make a transaction through any of the blocks 00:32:35.258 --> 00:32:38.338 that, so if you have a paid subscriber and they pay you, say a hundred 00:32:38.338 --> 00:32:42.948 dollars, then that 2 percent of that would only happen if that payment 00:32:42.948 --> 00:32:46.348 is made, but then there's the, the strike processing fees on top of that. 00:32:47.048 --> 00:32:51.708 So that, that's the difference there is that you could get started. 00:32:52.408 --> 00:32:55.748 Building an audience and then when you come to monetize it later down the line, 00:32:55.778 --> 00:33:01.138 you can then make the decision of is it worth me upgrading to lower that fee I'm 00:33:01.138 --> 00:33:06.468 a happy saying I'm paying a little bit of a higher fee while still using the things 00:33:07.168 --> 00:33:10.748 Matt: That could be like a donation form or like, you know, access this private 00:33:10.748 --> 00:33:13.268 post but pay me 5 or something like that 00:33:13.833 --> 00:33:18.363 Mike: Yeah, or downloadable content like an e book you could put there behind like 00:33:18.503 --> 00:33:22.753 the premium content block so you could say start the content and then you have to pay 00:33:22.753 --> 00:33:24.783 to download the ebook at the end of it. 00:33:25.483 --> 00:33:27.573 Matt: Pay for payments probably not put you on the hot seat a 00:33:27.583 --> 00:33:29.253 little bit but for for payments. 00:33:29.513 --> 00:33:30.743 Do you all ever talk about? 00:33:31.443 --> 00:33:32.873 Bitcoin payments or anything like that. 00:33:32.873 --> 00:33:33.953 Cryptocurrency payments. 00:33:33.953 --> 00:33:36.833 There's a, there's a digital wallet called get Albi, which is really 00:33:36.833 --> 00:33:39.433 popular in the, in the podcasting space. 00:33:39.433 --> 00:33:41.873 I hate to use the terms Bitcoin and crypto because a lot of people 00:33:41.873 --> 00:33:46.373 start freaking out about it, but get Albi does make life pretty easy for 00:33:46.383 --> 00:33:50.413 podcasters who are looking for, you know, other means of monetization. 00:33:51.113 --> 00:33:53.483 Mike: And I'm not sure on that one with Bitcoin. 00:33:53.853 --> 00:33:57.433 I think with it integrating with Stripe, I think if Stripe is offering that as 00:33:57.433 --> 00:34:01.303 a payment option, then you can just lean into whatever Stripe offering 00:34:01.343 --> 00:34:07.453 because it's, when you do choose to set up a paid plan or set up a donation 00:34:07.453 --> 00:34:08.773 form, you go through the Stripe. 00:34:09.318 --> 00:34:14.718 Connect flow and so it's, whether those options available in Stripe could 00:34:14.718 --> 00:34:17.048 then come through into the website. 00:34:17.048 --> 00:34:20.978 I don't think we've had much feedback about people wanting to accept Bitcoin 00:34:21.378 --> 00:34:24.918 just because of all the ups and downs of like holding your cash in crypto 00:34:25.278 --> 00:34:28.138 can be a little bit scary for most. 00:34:28.898 --> 00:34:29.218 Matt: Yeah. 00:34:29.748 --> 00:34:29.968 Yeah. 00:34:30.208 --> 00:34:33.238 For the creator side, just to paint the picture for podcasters, one of 00:34:33.238 --> 00:34:36.538 the, there's a whole like another sort of, almost similar to WordPress. 00:34:36.538 --> 00:34:42.488 There's an open source RSS standard called the, the, podcasting 2. 00:34:42.488 --> 00:34:47.498 0, movement, and it's really just enhancing RSS and the capabilities. 00:34:47.498 --> 00:34:51.618 And one of that is payments through, the lightning network, which is like 00:34:51.618 --> 00:34:54.078 a smallest form of Bitcoin payments. 00:34:54.273 --> 00:34:57.923 And, and the reason why it's so effective is it because it doesn't 00:34:57.923 --> 00:35:03.013 have to go through traditional means of, merchant accounts like a stripe. 00:35:03.023 --> 00:35:05.613 That's always taking the 30 cents plus the 2. 00:35:05.613 --> 00:35:11.303 9 percent because what they're doing is they're micro, micro transactions. 00:35:11.303 --> 00:35:14.843 Like you could be listening to a podcast and just love that moment of the podcast 00:35:15.123 --> 00:35:18.373 and give somebody 25 cents, right? 00:35:18.593 --> 00:35:20.893 A quarter, a nickel, a dime, a dollar. 00:35:21.243 --> 00:35:26.113 And all of that money goes to the creator versus if you did it in traditional land, 00:35:26.273 --> 00:35:30.143 you would lose like 50 percent of it and people probably wouldn't even process 00:35:30.173 --> 00:35:33.363 it because it would cost more money to process it with these other outlets. 00:35:33.363 --> 00:35:33.593 Right? 00:35:33.593 --> 00:35:35.563 So that's a really popular solution. 00:35:35.573 --> 00:35:38.003 Anyway, in the podcasting world, it'd be interesting to see if that 00:35:38.003 --> 00:35:42.133 ever made it to, to the WordPress side, like micro transactions to 00:35:42.133 --> 00:35:45.973 help creators like, like that, Mike Stott, thanks for hanging out today. 00:35:45.973 --> 00:35:47.183 I know you're, you're up late. 00:35:47.883 --> 00:35:51.293 Mike: Indeed, I'm up late but, like I said, the boys are in 00:35:51.293 --> 00:35:52.813 bed and they've not woke up. 00:35:52.863 --> 00:35:56.753 I was expecting them to, to hear the baby cry on like halfway through the 00:35:56.953 --> 00:35:59.053 Matt: yeah, I know those stresses. 00:35:59.753 --> 00:36:01.153 I know those stresses all too well. 00:36:01.503 --> 00:36:05.633 Mike, where else, where can folks go to find you to say thanks for doing the show? 00:36:06.283 --> 00:36:09.333 Mike: Sure, so you can follow me, find me on Twitter at mike. 00:36:09.353 --> 00:36:16.293 wp I do have a, a fledgling, a fledgling word, a YouTube channel that I'm 00:36:16.293 --> 00:36:21.663 starting to, Do more videos around like the creator space and looking 00:36:21.663 --> 00:36:24.793 at what some of the bigger websites do for creators Not for creators, 00:36:24.813 --> 00:36:28.763 but how they set up their content and how if you were setting up your own 00:36:28.763 --> 00:36:31.892 how you could do something similar But that's just a personal passion. 00:36:31.942 --> 00:36:33.232 , Matt: Mike, thanks for hanging out today. 00:36:33.562 --> 00:36:34.678 thanks for doing the podcast.