1 00:00:00,167 --> 00:00:05,710 < Intro > 2 00:00:05,710 --> 00:00:08,550 – Welcome back to another episode of Count Me In. 3 00:00:08,550 --> 00:00:10,090 I'm your host, Adam Larson, 4 00:00:10,090 --> 00:00:14,470 and I'm thrilled to have our special guest with us today, Josh Fonger. 5 00:00:14,470 --> 00:00:19,980 Josh is an experienced entrepreneur and the CEO of WTS Enterprises. 6 00:00:19,980 --> 00:00:24,080 In today's episode, Josh will enlighten us on the crucial difference 7 00:00:24,080 --> 00:00:27,769 between working in your business versus working on it. 8 00:00:27,769 --> 00:00:30,140 And why this shift is essential for growth, 9 00:00:30,140 --> 00:00:32,834 particularly, for business owners and entrepreneurs. 10 00:00:33,334 --> 00:00:35,667 We'll discuss how getting caught up by day-to-day operations 11 00:00:35,667 --> 00:00:39,260 can hinder business growth, innovations, and long-term vision. 12 00:00:39,260 --> 00:00:41,829 Josh is an expert in helping companies navigate this challenge, 13 00:00:41,829 --> 00:00:45,420 by utilizing the Work the System, or WTS, method. 14 00:00:45,420 --> 00:00:47,140 He emphasizes the importance of backfilling 15 00:00:47,140 --> 00:00:49,789 our current tasks and responsibilities. 16 00:00:49,789 --> 00:00:53,167 So we can jump ahead and lead our organizations effectively. 17 00:00:53,667 --> 00:00:55,579 But it's not just about the concept. 18 00:00:55,579 --> 00:00:59,000 Josh provides practical insight, on how to take action and implement 19 00:00:59,000 --> 00:01:01,469 a systematic approach to run a business. 20 00:01:01,469 --> 00:01:05,540 So get ready and gain some valuable insights, tips, and strategies. 21 00:01:05,540 --> 00:01:09,610 As we explore the power of a systems mindset, with our incredible guest. 22 00:01:09,610 --> 00:01:10,667 Let's dive right in. 23 00:01:10,667 --> 00:01:16,667 < Music > 24 00:01:16,667 --> 00:01:19,167 – Josh, I want to thank you so much for coming on the podcast. 25 00:01:19,167 --> 00:01:21,167 Really excited to talk about entrepreneurs, 26 00:01:21,167 --> 00:01:23,170 and that systems mindset that you talk about. 27 00:01:23,170 --> 00:01:25,900 But to get started, maybe, we can start by discussing 28 00:01:25,900 --> 00:01:29,666 the difference of working in your business versus working on it, 29 00:01:29,666 --> 00:01:31,770 and why that's essential for growth, especially, 30 00:01:31,770 --> 00:01:34,166 for business owners and entrepreneurs? 31 00:01:34,166 --> 00:01:36,166 – Yes, and this is not a new concept. 32 00:01:36,166 --> 00:01:39,180 I think people have been aware of this, heard this, for decades. 33 00:01:39,180 --> 00:01:44,360 Popularized by The E Myth, Michael Gerber's, bestselling book. 34 00:01:44,360 --> 00:01:51,200 And the key thing that I do is help companies, actually, make that happen. 35 00:01:51,200 --> 00:01:53,833 The big the big issue, of course, whether it's a manager, an owner, 36 00:01:53,833 --> 00:01:57,659 or a CEO, is that they are doing the work as a technician, 37 00:01:57,659 --> 00:02:00,500 instead of leading the work or growing the organization. 38 00:02:00,500 --> 00:02:03,541 And, so, that's the key thing, is that if you're doing the work, 39 00:02:03,541 --> 00:02:05,399 then no one is doing the business growth, 40 00:02:05,399 --> 00:02:07,579 no one's doing the innovation, no one's doing the expansion. 41 00:02:07,579 --> 00:02:10,990 No one's casting the vision for the next series of years. 42 00:02:10,990 --> 00:02:15,499 Instead, they're talking about the next five minutes, and maybe the next five hours, 43 00:02:15,499 --> 00:02:16,499 and that's really the issue 44 00:02:16,499 --> 00:02:20,880 is that companies stay stuck when they're looking short term. 45 00:02:20,880 --> 00:02:26,849 And, so, what I focus in on is helping, mechanically, 46 00:02:26,849 --> 00:02:27,880 because it's more than just an idea. 47 00:02:27,880 --> 00:02:29,166 They need to think differently, 48 00:02:29,166 --> 00:02:31,250 but then they, actually, have to take different actions. 49 00:02:31,250 --> 00:02:35,999 Is help business owners and leaders take those actions, in a methodical, 50 00:02:35,999 --> 00:02:40,790 mechanical way, so that they're backfilling what they're currently doing. 51 00:02:40,790 --> 00:02:43,833 Because you can't just jump ahead somebody's got to do the work. 52 00:02:43,833 --> 00:02:45,920 And, so, there needs to be a way, 53 00:02:45,920 --> 00:02:48,999 which we call working the system, or the WTS method, 54 00:02:48,999 --> 00:02:51,332 a way to backfill what you're currently doing. 55 00:02:51,332 --> 00:02:54,499 So you can jump ahead and lead the organization. 56 00:02:54,499 --> 00:02:59,999 And, the idea, again, simple enough, work on the business instead of in the business. 57 00:02:59,999 --> 00:03:02,800 But, mechanically, and infrastructure wise, 58 00:03:02,800 --> 00:03:06,666 to do that takes some heavy lifting, some rolling up of the sleeves. 59 00:03:06,666 --> 00:03:11,832 That's what we want all of our clients to get is that, there's a process you can take. 60 00:03:11,832 --> 00:03:15,832 And if you work the process, you work your systems, that freedom 61 00:03:15,832 --> 00:03:18,166 and that growth will become a mechanical reality. 62 00:03:18,499 --> 00:03:20,666 – So maybe we can dig in in a little bit more into this work, 63 00:03:20,666 --> 00:03:22,666 this system method that you're talking about. 64 00:03:22,666 --> 00:03:26,499 I know that you have a book, that we'll put a link in the show notes for everybody, 65 00:03:26,540 --> 00:03:28,330 maybe, you can talk a little bit more about that. 66 00:03:28,330 --> 00:03:30,420 How does that enable your business owners 67 00:03:30,420 --> 00:03:32,560 to do things like increase profits, reduce time? 68 00:03:32,560 --> 00:03:34,490 I know those are a lot of things that you speak about, 69 00:03:34,490 --> 00:03:36,580 maybe we can talk a little more detail on that. 70 00:03:36,832 --> 00:03:40,665 – Yes, so everyone uses all their time, 71 00:03:40,665 --> 00:03:43,999 and everyone, essentially, uses all of their resources, and so you're bound by those. 72 00:03:44,150 --> 00:03:48,299 And, so, the way to expand your business, expand your life, 73 00:03:48,299 --> 00:03:51,499 is to do a better job with those resources. 74 00:03:51,499 --> 00:03:55,420 And, so, working the system is all about getting more efficient. 75 00:03:55,420 --> 00:03:57,060 And, so, how do we do that? 76 00:03:57,060 --> 00:04:01,499 Well, we help people not just react to the problems of their business 77 00:04:01,499 --> 00:04:03,129 or the stimuli that's coming their way. 78 00:04:03,129 --> 00:04:06,079 But instead take charge or take control of the systems 79 00:04:06,079 --> 00:04:07,879 that they know are going to keep happening. 80 00:04:07,879 --> 00:04:10,180 So instead of just reacting to a phone call coming in. 81 00:04:10,180 --> 00:04:12,810 Instead manage or control that system, 82 00:04:12,810 --> 00:04:17,998 so that you and your team know how to answer the call, to be the best with it. 83 00:04:17,998 --> 00:04:19,998 And let's just say answering the phone 84 00:04:19,998 --> 00:04:24,165 is one of 300 different systems that maybe your company has. 85 00:04:24,165 --> 00:04:28,580 And instead of winging each system and following it 86 00:04:28,580 --> 00:04:31,100 the way you've always done it before. 87 00:04:31,100 --> 00:04:35,110 If you take the time to look at each system, as a separate entity, 88 00:04:35,110 --> 00:04:38,832 and then figure out what is the best way to make it the fastest, 89 00:04:38,832 --> 00:04:42,690 the lowest cost, the highest efficiency, the highest profitability. 90 00:04:42,690 --> 00:04:46,100 What are the ways we can optimize each of those little pieces, 91 00:04:46,100 --> 00:04:49,332 which can be done if they're written down and looked at objectively. 92 00:04:49,332 --> 00:04:51,320 You're going to find that the assemblage 93 00:04:51,320 --> 00:04:54,690 of those separate pieces are going to result, 94 00:04:54,690 --> 00:04:56,998 we're talking to math folks here, accountants, 95 00:04:56,998 --> 00:05:00,331 the result is going to be a much better business. 96 00:05:00,331 --> 00:05:03,780 It's not going to be surprise when your company is running way better, 97 00:05:03,780 --> 00:05:07,831 way more profitably, when the separate pieces, that make up your business, 98 00:05:07,831 --> 00:05:11,331 are each improved by 5%, 10%, 20%. 99 00:05:11,331 --> 00:05:16,165 Each of these pieces are then going to equate to a multiple 100 00:05:16,165 --> 00:05:18,331 of what you ever thought possible. 101 00:05:18,331 --> 00:05:22,165 Because we work with companies, everyone's already working hard. 102 00:05:22,165 --> 00:05:23,665 Everyone's already doing their best. 103 00:05:23,665 --> 00:05:26,229 And, so, we let them know, "You have to work differently, 104 00:05:26,229 --> 00:05:28,998 if you're going to expand beyond your current best." 105 00:05:28,998 --> 00:05:30,660 Because everyone's already trying their best. 106 00:05:30,660 --> 00:05:33,190 Everyone's already working hard, everyone's already maxed out. 107 00:05:33,190 --> 00:05:35,750 So knowing that plateau is already reached, 108 00:05:35,750 --> 00:05:37,498 in the organizations we work with, 109 00:05:37,498 --> 00:05:40,940 the goal is, "Okay, well, now we're going to have to work differently. 110 00:05:40,940 --> 00:05:43,331 We're going to have to work in a different way." 111 00:05:43,331 --> 00:05:46,270 And that's going to be working on these separate systems. 112 00:05:46,498 --> 00:05:49,331 – So a lot of times when you say the word systems, people think 113 00:05:49,331 --> 00:05:52,164 these are different softwares that I'm using, or different things like that. 114 00:05:52,199 --> 00:05:55,819 But you're talking systems as more of all the processes that you do, 115 00:05:55,819 --> 00:05:57,998 within your organization. 116 00:05:57,998 --> 00:05:59,498 Am I correct in that understanding? 117 00:05:59,498 --> 00:06:03,690 – Yes, exactly, it's a very broad way, 118 00:06:03,690 --> 00:06:06,670 like the way you drive to work each day, is a system. 119 00:06:06,670 --> 00:06:08,789 The way you schedule a meeting, is a system. 120 00:06:08,789 --> 00:06:12,164 The way you answer the phone, it's a repeatable process 121 00:06:12,164 --> 00:06:16,009 that is going to happen again and again, and you can get control of it. 122 00:06:16,009 --> 00:06:20,090 Maybe you do get control of it with a software, but you don't have to. 123 00:06:20,090 --> 00:06:23,331 There could be ways where you say, "Hey, I process this invoice." 124 00:06:23,331 --> 00:06:28,164 And it's a system, it involves some mechanical parts, with some software, 125 00:06:28,164 --> 00:06:29,997 some automation, some people. 126 00:06:29,997 --> 00:06:32,664 Maybe a couple of different people, maybe, some physical envelopes, 127 00:06:32,664 --> 00:06:35,164 there's a bunch of different pieces that make up this system. 128 00:06:35,164 --> 00:06:38,164 But once you identify it, as a system, 129 00:06:38,164 --> 00:06:42,830 then you realize that the people can be switched out. 130 00:06:42,830 --> 00:06:47,164 In most organizations we work with, it's switching out managers, 131 00:06:47,164 --> 00:06:50,979 leaders, expensive people, to lower cost. 132 00:06:50,979 --> 00:06:54,997 More junior people who can do the same work, maybe, even better, 133 00:06:54,997 --> 00:07:01,330 maybe, even faster, if they are trained properly, with a system that's documented. 134 00:07:01,330 --> 00:07:05,997 And, so, that's what we're talking about with regards to systems. 135 00:07:06,300 --> 00:07:08,997 – So when we talk about 'Work the system', 136 00:07:08,997 --> 00:07:14,830 it makes me think of the other book, The Systems Mindset by Sam Carpenter. 137 00:07:14,830 --> 00:07:17,664 Maybe we can talk a little bit about what that means, in reference 138 00:07:17,664 --> 00:07:19,879 to how we've been speaking right now? 139 00:07:19,879 --> 00:07:23,610 – Yes, so whenever we're talking to leaders, 140 00:07:23,610 --> 00:07:26,970 they all get, "Hey, we should document our SOPs." 141 00:07:26,970 --> 00:07:31,330 That'll make sense because big companies do it, small companies don't, 142 00:07:31,330 --> 00:07:35,497 but they probably should, if they want to get big someday, and so people get that. 143 00:07:35,590 --> 00:07:38,997 But what we want them to do is go a layer deeper, and think about everything in life. 144 00:07:39,139 --> 00:07:43,069 And, so, Sam Carpenter writes about it in terms of the systems mindset. 145 00:07:43,069 --> 00:07:47,720 And this is an outside and slightly elevated perspective on you, 146 00:07:47,720 --> 00:07:50,259 the things you do, the things your organization does. 147 00:07:50,259 --> 00:07:53,800 And realizing that each of the results you're experiencing in your life 148 00:07:53,800 --> 00:07:56,610 and in your business are resultants that happened 149 00:07:56,610 --> 00:07:58,830 because of the systems that led to it. 150 00:07:58,830 --> 00:08:02,830 And these separate pieces that led to these results you're in control of. 151 00:08:02,990 --> 00:08:04,740 You're in control of those systems. 152 00:08:04,740 --> 00:08:08,220 And, so, your results that you have currently today are not random. 153 00:08:08,220 --> 00:08:11,663 They can very logically be analyzed based on looking in the past. 154 00:08:11,663 --> 00:08:15,330 And, so, if you want to change the future results, you're going to need to change 155 00:08:15,330 --> 00:08:18,389 your systems to create new results. 156 00:08:18,389 --> 00:08:22,330 And the idea is it's supposed to be a very empowering mindset shift 157 00:08:22,330 --> 00:08:26,996 as opposed to "I'm a victim of my circumstances or my results." 158 00:08:26,996 --> 00:08:32,663 Instead it's "I can actually change those and do it in a very logical, mechanical, way 159 00:08:32,663 --> 00:08:34,830 if I look at the separate systems that got me there." 160 00:08:34,830 --> 00:08:38,729 And, so, we want owners, managers, employees, 161 00:08:38,729 --> 00:08:41,649 top-down to all get this systems mindset. 162 00:08:41,649 --> 00:08:45,910 And instead of be defeated or frustrated with the current reality, 163 00:08:45,910 --> 00:08:49,360 realize, "Okay, instead of just focusing on different results, 164 00:08:49,360 --> 00:08:51,980 let's focus on different systems knowing that the results 165 00:08:51,980 --> 00:08:53,163 will take care of themselves." 166 00:08:53,163 --> 00:08:58,230 And, so, that's a lot of what I want people to do is not look at today, 167 00:08:58,230 --> 00:09:01,663 look at the systems that got them there and let's work on those. 168 00:09:01,663 --> 00:09:04,663 Knowing that if we do that, it might be a week, it might be a month, 169 00:09:04,663 --> 00:09:07,996 it might be six months, but we're going to see a massive change in the results. 170 00:09:08,079 --> 00:09:11,420 The results will happen because things will get faster 171 00:09:11,420 --> 00:09:15,040 and, usually, the first result is always, "I'm feeling less stressed. 172 00:09:15,040 --> 00:09:19,996 I'm feeling like work is just going smoother, there are less mistakes. 173 00:09:19,996 --> 00:09:20,829 Why is it happening?" 174 00:09:20,829 --> 00:09:24,496 And, so, they feel it first, and then after that they start to notice it 175 00:09:24,496 --> 00:09:26,663 in terms of their time. 176 00:09:26,663 --> 00:09:28,996 The managers, the owners, I'm working with 177 00:09:28,996 --> 00:09:32,269 are like, "I got more time in my day or my week." 178 00:09:32,269 --> 00:09:34,470 They start to notice that they actually have some flexibility 179 00:09:34,470 --> 00:09:36,996 or some ability to work on those special projects, those initiatives 180 00:09:36,996 --> 00:09:38,660 that have pushed the company forward. 181 00:09:38,660 --> 00:09:42,496 And then they start reviewing their financial reports, or their metrics, 182 00:09:42,496 --> 00:09:44,996 or their KPIs, things that they're starting to track, 183 00:09:44,996 --> 00:09:46,829 and they're like, "Wow, our numbers are getting better." 184 00:09:46,829 --> 00:09:50,329 And then they start realizing, especially, if they're the owner or the profit sharing, 185 00:09:50,329 --> 00:09:52,496 that there's a lot more money at the end of the day. 186 00:09:52,496 --> 00:09:56,829 They can't, necessarily, point to one thing or another, it's all of these things 187 00:09:56,829 --> 00:09:57,950 that they've been worked on. 188 00:09:57,950 --> 00:10:01,162 The systems that they've empowered their team to work on, are all working 189 00:10:01,162 --> 00:10:04,662 slightly better or a lot better, and that's what's, ultimately, 190 00:10:04,662 --> 00:10:07,040 ending up with the higher bottom line. 191 00:10:07,040 --> 00:10:08,329 – Yes, and I can't help but thinking, 192 00:10:08,329 --> 00:10:11,329 as we talk through this, it's very top-down mentality. 193 00:10:11,329 --> 00:10:14,500 And if you're a business owner, you're trying to share that with everybody. 194 00:10:14,500 --> 00:10:18,996 How do you inspire and motivate your employees, your middle managers, 195 00:10:18,996 --> 00:10:19,829 people underneath you? 196 00:10:19,829 --> 00:10:23,329 Because not everybody is able to have that systems mindset, all the time. 197 00:10:23,430 --> 00:10:25,690 If you're just low-level person 198 00:10:25,690 --> 00:10:28,660 who's just doing some more of the administrative work, 199 00:10:28,660 --> 00:10:30,130 it's hard to have that systems mindset. 200 00:10:30,130 --> 00:10:33,829 So how do you translate that to people's daily jobs? 201 00:10:33,829 --> 00:10:38,829 – Yes, that's a great question, and the whole philosophy, the WTS method, 202 00:10:38,829 --> 00:10:43,995 is about empowering, enabling, that at the lowest level possible. 203 00:10:43,995 --> 00:10:47,162 And the more that your frontline employee gets it, 204 00:10:47,162 --> 00:10:50,829 and then they start to work in that way the better. 205 00:10:50,829 --> 00:10:54,860 And you want to top-down in terms of educate and inspire 206 00:10:54,860 --> 00:10:58,050 through a clear strategy, we call it the strategic objective, 207 00:10:58,050 --> 00:11:00,959 and clear principles, we call them operating principles. 208 00:11:00,959 --> 00:11:03,910 But then we want them to take ownership of their work. 209 00:11:03,910 --> 00:11:05,450 People like to have autonomy. 210 00:11:05,450 --> 00:11:08,162 People like to have ownership, and we give them autonomy and ownership, 211 00:11:08,162 --> 00:11:12,328 of the work or the sphere they get to work in by saying, 212 00:11:12,328 --> 00:11:16,828 "Hey, why don't you help us generate the documented systems for this department 213 00:11:16,870 --> 00:11:19,460 or for what you do because you're already doing it." 214 00:11:19,460 --> 00:11:22,495 So you can write down the way it's being done, and then we all get 215 00:11:22,495 --> 00:11:27,828 to work on making it better and you get to optimize and improve 216 00:11:27,828 --> 00:11:28,930 because people like to improve. 217 00:11:28,930 --> 00:11:34,162 They like to get better, they like to be rewarded for improving their work. 218 00:11:34,162 --> 00:11:37,828 It's not that their work doesn't matter, their work matters so much 219 00:11:37,828 --> 00:11:40,162 that we want to write it down and make it even better. 220 00:11:40,280 --> 00:11:44,150 And, so, once they're inspired by the strategy and the vision, 221 00:11:44,150 --> 00:11:48,495 and once they realize that they're a part of making a great business, 222 00:11:48,495 --> 00:11:50,339 being congruent with the future. 223 00:11:50,339 --> 00:11:53,328 And once they see, "Hey, this company is going somewhere." 224 00:11:53,328 --> 00:11:57,661 We're not just going to stay chaotic and be a horrible place to work forever. 225 00:11:57,760 --> 00:11:59,661 We're actually building this infrastructure, 226 00:11:59,661 --> 00:12:02,328 so I can see the leadership knows where they're going, 227 00:12:02,328 --> 00:12:03,828 and I want to be a part of this. 228 00:12:03,828 --> 00:12:05,450 And I want to be a part of making it better 229 00:12:05,450 --> 00:12:08,495 and then rewarded for what that's going to be, whether that's promotion 230 00:12:08,495 --> 00:12:12,995 or higher pay because companies that systemize their business, 231 00:12:13,070 --> 00:12:14,529 they have more money, they have more profit. 232 00:12:14,529 --> 00:12:18,661 Therefore, their people can get paid more and have more advancement. 233 00:12:18,699 --> 00:12:20,350 So they get to be a part of that. 234 00:12:20,350 --> 00:12:24,161 So the more you can sell them on the vision of what they're a part of, 235 00:12:24,161 --> 00:12:26,860 and empower them, and give them autonomy 236 00:12:26,860 --> 00:12:29,260 through the systems they work on, 237 00:12:29,260 --> 00:12:33,560 the more they're going to actually enjoy their work, and that's the goal. 238 00:12:33,560 --> 00:12:37,494 That's the goal, but reality is some people, they don't care. 239 00:12:37,494 --> 00:12:40,661 Especially the lowest level folks, they're just coming to work, just a job, 240 00:12:40,661 --> 00:12:41,970 they don't really care that much. 241 00:12:41,970 --> 00:12:43,680 They like the way they're currently doing it. 242 00:12:43,680 --> 00:12:45,230 They don't really want the extra accountability, 243 00:12:45,230 --> 00:12:46,670 they don't want the extra administration. 244 00:12:46,670 --> 00:12:50,140 They don't want to optimize it's, "Whatever, who really cares?" 245 00:12:50,140 --> 00:12:53,328 They like to just follow their gut and that's good enough for them. 246 00:12:53,328 --> 00:12:57,328 Well, ultimately, as you're working on the strategy I'm talking about, 247 00:12:57,328 --> 00:12:59,328 the work with system method. 248 00:12:59,328 --> 00:13:02,328 Those people are not going to fit, they're not going to fit with the strategy, 249 00:13:02,430 --> 00:13:04,161 the culture, the direction you're going. 250 00:13:04,161 --> 00:13:07,130 And those people are either going to have to come on board 251 00:13:07,130 --> 00:13:11,827 or they're going to have to be, I guess, thrown overboard, for lack of better term. 252 00:13:11,827 --> 00:13:13,750 And, so, that is part of it. 253 00:13:13,750 --> 00:13:17,661 Part of it is that those types of people, since they don't embody the vision, 254 00:13:17,760 --> 00:13:19,440 can't be congruent with business. 255 00:13:19,440 --> 00:13:23,494 And, so, they have to be let go so that you can keep optimizing the business. 256 00:13:23,630 --> 00:13:26,661 And, so, that is part of the process. 257 00:13:26,661 --> 00:13:29,994 I would say the faster you try to integrate this philosophy 258 00:13:29,994 --> 00:13:32,649 and this methodology in your business, the faster it goes, 259 00:13:32,649 --> 00:13:37,827 the more likely you're going to have more people leave or you're pushing them out. 260 00:13:37,827 --> 00:13:40,494 Maybe the more slow and steady you implement this, 261 00:13:40,494 --> 00:13:42,740 the more people will get brought along. 262 00:13:42,740 --> 00:13:46,827 Because they might not like it at first, but then they might get a taste of it 263 00:13:46,930 --> 00:13:52,160 and say, "Hey, my work is actually getting better, and things are smoother now, 264 00:13:52,160 --> 00:13:52,994 and I'm saving time." 265 00:13:52,994 --> 00:13:55,660 So they'll, eventually, buy-in, 266 00:13:55,660 --> 00:13:57,994 and they can be a part of making your company great. 267 00:13:58,160 --> 00:14:00,089 – Well, and it also allows them time. 268 00:14:00,089 --> 00:14:04,130 If you improve your daily process each day and it frees up time, 269 00:14:04,130 --> 00:14:05,494 it actually allows you time to think. 270 00:14:05,494 --> 00:14:06,994 It allows you time to come up with ideas. 271 00:14:06,994 --> 00:14:09,994 It allows you time to grow as an employee, as well, 272 00:14:09,994 --> 00:14:12,740 so that you can say, "Hey, I want to get to that level, too." 273 00:14:12,740 --> 00:14:16,310 So it's an even balance, if you kind of buy-in to that. 274 00:14:16,310 --> 00:14:18,029 – Exactly, yes, everyone can contribute. 275 00:14:18,029 --> 00:14:24,160 And even the lowest level person, I don't know, I'm just saying a street sweeper. 276 00:14:24,160 --> 00:14:26,660 And they might come in the first day of work and they might say, 277 00:14:26,660 --> 00:14:29,827 "Hey, you know what, actually, if we swept this way instead of that way, 278 00:14:29,827 --> 00:14:33,493 we could do it a little bit faster and the streets would be a little bit cleaner." 279 00:14:33,493 --> 00:14:37,980 Great innovation, anyone can contribute, even if it's something lower. 280 00:14:37,980 --> 00:14:42,160 And this might be 100-million-dollar company where the leaders 281 00:14:42,160 --> 00:14:45,827 are trying to innovate on a different scale, on a different trajectory. 282 00:14:45,827 --> 00:14:49,250 But if the lowest level person is also a part of that, that's what you want. 283 00:14:49,250 --> 00:14:51,980 You want everyone to be innovating with the extra time, 284 00:14:51,980 --> 00:14:54,827 the extra capacity, the less stress. 285 00:14:54,827 --> 00:15:00,827 When you have both the strategy, the principles, and the freedom of control 286 00:15:00,827 --> 00:15:03,160 over your systems to make them better, people like that. 287 00:15:03,160 --> 00:15:06,993 They like to test out, and experiment, and try to improve new things. 288 00:15:06,993 --> 00:15:11,959 And as a manager and leader, you can actually allow your team to do that 289 00:15:11,959 --> 00:15:15,060 because they have the framework and the boundaries 290 00:15:15,060 --> 00:15:17,020 and the document system to start with. 291 00:15:17,020 --> 00:15:20,210 And then you're letting them do these micro experiments on their own, 292 00:15:20,210 --> 00:15:22,140 and then report back up what's working. 293 00:15:22,160 --> 00:15:25,070 – A lot of times when you're a business owner, entrepreneur, 294 00:15:25,070 --> 00:15:28,326 you're still getting started, you're slowly growing. 295 00:15:28,326 --> 00:15:31,250 You might be listening to this and thinking, "That's great in theory, 296 00:15:31,250 --> 00:15:35,639 but I am constantly having to intervene in the daily operations. 297 00:15:35,639 --> 00:15:38,279 I constantly have to look at things because you're just growing." 298 00:15:38,279 --> 00:15:41,493 So how do you build that systems mindset, as you're growing? 299 00:15:41,493 --> 00:15:44,993 Because you don't want to wait too long so everybody gets set in their ways. 300 00:15:44,993 --> 00:15:47,819 But you also want to have that growth mindset. 301 00:15:47,819 --> 00:15:51,160 How do you balance that, especially, when you're getting started? 302 00:15:51,826 --> 00:15:56,110 – Great question, yes, I think that it's important for people 303 00:15:56,110 --> 00:15:58,230 to know that you're pursuing perfection. 304 00:15:58,230 --> 00:16:01,493 You're pursuing being the best business, that's a direction. 305 00:16:01,493 --> 00:16:06,680 But part of the way to get there is iterative and requires mistakes. 306 00:16:06,680 --> 00:16:09,699 Some industries are okay with more mistakes than others. 307 00:16:09,699 --> 00:16:13,493 So if you're a heart surgeon, probably, you don't want to make too many mistakes. 308 00:16:13,493 --> 00:16:18,659 But if you're a creative agency and you're designing labels, 309 00:16:18,659 --> 00:16:22,980 well, it's okay if there are a few flubs along the way, 310 00:16:22,980 --> 00:16:25,993 as you're trying to optimize your business model. 311 00:16:25,993 --> 00:16:28,826 And, so, knowing what industry you're in, 312 00:16:28,826 --> 00:16:33,826 knowing what the tolerance is for mistakes, is going to allow you to 313 00:16:33,826 --> 00:16:36,326 take more risks, as you're growing the business. 314 00:16:36,326 --> 00:16:41,659 But companies that grow the business, every company I'm working with 315 00:16:41,659 --> 00:16:44,492 I say is on a train, they're already on the tracks, they're moving. 316 00:16:44,639 --> 00:16:48,326 So you're never going to get this perfect opportunity to stop the train 317 00:16:48,326 --> 00:16:52,829 and let's all work on making it better, now, it's moving. 318 00:16:52,829 --> 00:16:56,209 You've got income coming in, you got to provide a service, 319 00:16:56,209 --> 00:16:57,326 you got costs going out. 320 00:16:57,326 --> 00:16:59,460 You have things happening in real time. 321 00:16:59,460 --> 00:17:02,620 And, so, you have to do what you can while you're in the middle of it. 322 00:17:02,620 --> 00:17:06,880 So if you're in the middle of making a sale, work on that system. 323 00:17:06,880 --> 00:17:09,860 If you're in the middle of going to a convention, work on that system. 324 00:17:09,860 --> 00:17:12,209 If you're in the middle of hiring somebody, work on that system. 325 00:17:12,209 --> 00:17:15,360 So if you're working on systems as you're doing them, 326 00:17:15,360 --> 00:17:16,492 that's going to be the best approach 327 00:17:16,492 --> 00:17:19,280 because it's simple and you immediately get the benefit 328 00:17:19,280 --> 00:17:21,992 because you're in the middle of doing it, anyway. 329 00:17:21,992 --> 00:17:24,992 And that's all I want with my clients, 330 00:17:24,992 --> 00:17:27,659 is, "Hey, you're in the middle of hiring and you're going to do, 331 00:17:27,659 --> 00:17:31,220 let's just say, orientation, so record that orientation, great." 332 00:17:31,220 --> 00:17:32,960 So now the next time you're going to do orientation, 333 00:17:32,960 --> 00:17:34,000 maybe, you're going to use that recording, 334 00:17:34,000 --> 00:17:37,159 or maybe you're going to find a way to optimize it, or make it go a little faster. 335 00:17:37,200 --> 00:17:38,992 And then the next time you might realize 336 00:17:38,992 --> 00:17:41,159 you could delegate that to someone who's lower. 337 00:17:41,159 --> 00:17:45,159 And, then, maybe, there's a way you could add some technology so that it's better. 338 00:17:45,159 --> 00:17:48,419 And, so, each time you're finding a way to improve the system 339 00:17:48,419 --> 00:17:51,992 that you know is going to happen again and again, without getting stuck 340 00:17:51,992 --> 00:17:55,325 and saying, "Well, in the perfect scenario, someday, we'll perfect the system." 341 00:17:55,325 --> 00:17:58,140 Because the business is not static, 342 00:17:58,140 --> 00:18:00,992 so you have to make them nimble enough to always be improving. 343 00:18:00,992 --> 00:18:04,492 And, so, a lot of times, what I'll say is document as you go 344 00:18:04,492 --> 00:18:05,840 and record as you do things. 345 00:18:05,840 --> 00:18:09,020 Because at least you'll have a record of how it's done, 346 00:18:09,020 --> 00:18:13,530 the best you could do it today, of which to improve upon tomorrow. 347 00:18:13,530 --> 00:18:15,370 And with the hope that it might be someone different 348 00:18:15,370 --> 00:18:17,658 who could improve on that system. 349 00:18:17,658 --> 00:18:21,158 I think that the perfectionist clients that I have they don't like that 350 00:18:21,158 --> 00:18:24,658 because they don't want a record of them doing it not perfect. 351 00:18:24,658 --> 00:18:26,929 And your imperfect action 352 00:18:26,929 --> 00:18:30,590 is going to be as good as you're going to get today, so get a record of it. 353 00:18:30,590 --> 00:18:34,158 Whether it's in writing, or it's a screencast video, or it's an audio recording, 354 00:18:34,158 --> 00:18:35,860 a video recording, some record of it. 355 00:18:35,860 --> 00:18:41,325 So that that's going to be the baseline for the next time that system is run, 356 00:18:41,325 --> 00:18:45,560 and you'll always find little nuances, little ways, to improve it. 357 00:18:45,560 --> 00:18:49,158 Whether it's the experience, or lowering the cost, or making it faster, 358 00:18:49,158 --> 00:18:52,491 or optimizing some aspect of it. 359 00:18:52,491 --> 00:18:58,090 And that's what makes work interesting, and fun, and engaging, 360 00:18:58,090 --> 00:19:00,158 is someone might say, "Well, I've done this 100 times." 361 00:19:00,158 --> 00:19:02,658 But can you do it better? Can you do it faster? 362 00:19:02,720 --> 00:19:04,030 "Well, I don't know." 363 00:19:04,030 --> 00:19:08,825 And the answer is always, yes, and that's what I always push my clients to do. 364 00:19:08,825 --> 00:19:12,325 And, then, usually, after we analyze one of their systems they say, 365 00:19:12,325 --> 00:19:14,000 "Gosh, I never realized we could do it that much better, 366 00:19:14,000 --> 00:19:16,325 if we actually took the time to focus on it." 367 00:19:16,830 --> 00:19:21,270 – I like that mindset, that concept idea that you're never finished. 368 00:19:21,270 --> 00:19:24,030 And that's, sometimes, when people go through these processes, 369 00:19:24,030 --> 00:19:28,324 of these massive strategy sessions, and they go off to off-sites 370 00:19:28,324 --> 00:19:31,658 and have consultants come in, and they do all these things. 371 00:19:31,658 --> 00:19:34,289 And, then, they sit and say, "Okay, this is our new model." 372 00:19:34,289 --> 00:19:37,324 And they leave it in place for another ten years, and they realize, 373 00:19:37,324 --> 00:19:39,460 "Oh, wait, we should have been improving this all along." 374 00:19:39,460 --> 00:19:42,100 So I love this idea that you're saying that you're never done, 375 00:19:42,100 --> 00:19:43,870 you're constantly looking at the systems. 376 00:19:43,991 --> 00:19:48,491 – Exactly, yes, a lot of times, I'll fly in or I'll work with a new client, 377 00:19:48,491 --> 00:19:53,158 and they will have documented all of their procedures, in their entire business, 378 00:19:53,158 --> 00:19:55,158 but they did it like, five years ago. 379 00:19:55,158 --> 00:19:58,260 And, so, they'll say, "We got everything documented, already. 380 00:19:58,260 --> 00:20:01,780 But the issue is we don't do any of those things the way we did it five years ago. 381 00:20:01,780 --> 00:20:05,830 So all of this stuff we documented is obsolete, it's trash." 382 00:20:05,830 --> 00:20:08,991 And we've got different people, we've got different technology, 383 00:20:08,991 --> 00:20:11,491 we've got different products now, different services, different price points, 384 00:20:11,491 --> 00:20:13,824 different locations, it's all different now. 385 00:20:13,824 --> 00:20:19,157 And instead of seeing, documenting the systems of the business as a project, 386 00:20:19,157 --> 00:20:20,570 with a finish line, like you said. 387 00:20:20,570 --> 00:20:23,280 Instead it's a mindset, it's a strategy, 388 00:20:23,280 --> 00:20:27,157 it's a way to operate, and if you operate with that strategy, 389 00:20:27,157 --> 00:20:30,770 then it is always going to be a culture of continuous improvement. 390 00:20:30,770 --> 00:20:33,760 Not just in theory, a culture of continuous improvement, 391 00:20:33,760 --> 00:20:35,157 but it's going to be in practice 392 00:20:35,157 --> 00:20:40,157 because you're going to see, "Hey, we just improved the way we punch in 393 00:20:40,157 --> 00:20:42,510 and punch out it in the morning and at night. 394 00:20:42,510 --> 00:20:44,991 That system got slightly better than last week." 395 00:20:44,991 --> 00:20:49,490 "Hey, we just improved the way we, whatever it is, order inventory 396 00:20:49,490 --> 00:20:54,157 because we tweaked the way we did our system, and now it's a little bit better." 397 00:20:54,157 --> 00:20:57,824 And, so, you can mechanically see, yes, the culture of continuous improvement 398 00:20:57,919 --> 00:21:00,760 is not just this idea that leaders like to talk about. 399 00:21:00,760 --> 00:21:05,560 It's actually happening and we're seeing the results in our systems, 400 00:21:05,560 --> 00:21:07,324 and then we're seeing it in the bottom line. 401 00:21:07,990 --> 00:21:11,789 – I love that idea because you have to continuously improve. 402 00:21:11,789 --> 00:21:15,420 You have to continuously look at things in order to become better. 403 00:21:15,420 --> 00:21:19,490 And let's say somebody's listening to this and saying, "I'm really interested in this." 404 00:21:19,590 --> 00:21:22,657 Are there common mistakes or challenges, maybe, some examples you can share 405 00:21:22,657 --> 00:21:25,049 that you've seen that people can look out for, 406 00:21:25,049 --> 00:21:26,990 as they're trying to move toward this mindset. 407 00:21:27,320 --> 00:21:30,490 – Yes, the common mistakes and challenges, 408 00:21:30,490 --> 00:21:32,990 we could talk for hours on that. 409 00:21:33,050 --> 00:21:36,657 But the most common ones is that if you have multiple leaders 410 00:21:36,657 --> 00:21:39,823 and one person buys into it but the other leaders don't, 411 00:21:39,823 --> 00:21:42,220 then, you're going to have problems. 412 00:21:42,220 --> 00:21:45,400 So one owner is saying, "Hey, team, we're going to start working on this." 413 00:21:45,400 --> 00:21:50,150 But the other owners or managers are saying, "No, move faster." 414 00:21:50,150 --> 00:21:53,823 If you can't constantly be rushing and reacting really fast 415 00:21:53,823 --> 00:21:55,990 and, simultaneously, slowing down, 416 00:21:55,990 --> 00:21:57,990 analyzing your systems and making them better. 417 00:21:57,990 --> 00:22:02,600 And, so, if you have leadership that does not agree on this initiative, 418 00:22:02,600 --> 00:22:04,657 then it never works, I see it all the time. 419 00:22:04,657 --> 00:22:09,490 I also see it when there is a lower manager, not the owner or the CEO, 420 00:22:09,490 --> 00:22:11,549 but someone who's a mid-manager, or lower. 421 00:22:11,549 --> 00:22:15,823 They try to implement this, also it doesn't work because the long-term benefits 422 00:22:15,823 --> 00:22:19,323 of what's happening in their organization, they don't see, and they don't care about. 423 00:22:19,323 --> 00:22:24,656 And, so, again, they are pushing their managers to react and perform, 424 00:22:24,656 --> 00:22:26,860 as opposed to build out their systems. 425 00:22:26,860 --> 00:22:28,490 And, so, they're not appreciating 426 00:22:28,490 --> 00:22:32,156 the infrastructure that's being worked, and I've seen that happen often. 427 00:22:32,156 --> 00:22:34,656 I also see companies where they overcomplicate it, 428 00:22:34,656 --> 00:22:37,150 where they'll say, "We love this idea. 429 00:22:37,150 --> 00:22:39,309 So now we want every procedure, 430 00:22:39,309 --> 00:22:41,840 in our entire business, documented in the next 60 days. 431 00:22:41,840 --> 00:22:43,823 We want them all to have diagrams. 432 00:22:43,823 --> 00:22:45,823 We want them all to have automations. 433 00:22:45,823 --> 00:22:48,990 We want them all to be in special formatting." 434 00:22:48,990 --> 00:22:53,823 And they make it too big, too complicated, too fast, and the team never absorbs it. 435 00:22:53,823 --> 00:22:59,156 And they end up realizing they're spending $700 on each procedure they document 436 00:22:59,156 --> 00:23:02,156 and they do it for about a month and they say, "This is way too expensive, 437 00:23:02,250 --> 00:23:04,323 this is way too hard, we're never going to do this." 438 00:23:04,323 --> 00:23:08,490 And, so, the stopping/starting with initiatives like this is extremely common. 439 00:23:08,490 --> 00:23:12,656 Where they make it too big, they make it too complicated, 440 00:23:12,656 --> 00:23:16,470 and they might make it overly secure as well. 441 00:23:16,470 --> 00:23:20,489 Whereas they need like five levels of passwords to get into the system, 442 00:23:20,489 --> 00:23:22,650 to update it, and then no one ever updates it. 443 00:23:22,650 --> 00:23:25,823 And, so, my advice to everyone like this 444 00:23:25,823 --> 00:23:29,730 is to keep it as simple as possible because the simpler it is, 445 00:23:29,730 --> 00:23:31,110 the more you can engage everybody. 446 00:23:31,110 --> 00:23:33,656 So if it's as simple as saying, "Hey, you know what? 447 00:23:33,656 --> 00:23:37,940 We're going to be hiring that new person tomorrow. 448 00:23:37,940 --> 00:23:41,890 We should probably document how we onboard them with a checklist, 449 00:23:41,890 --> 00:23:44,549 to make sure that they get all the things that they need." 450 00:23:44,549 --> 00:23:45,900 That sounds good. 451 00:23:45,900 --> 00:23:49,799 Write it down on a piece of paper, maybe, someone types it up, great, 452 00:23:49,799 --> 00:23:52,822 and we have a new system now, and then it can get refined. 453 00:23:52,822 --> 00:23:55,156 But you got to start with something really simple, 454 00:23:55,156 --> 00:23:57,279 and so people can start to get traction with it. 455 00:23:57,322 --> 00:24:00,489 – Yes, starting simple makes a lot of sense because I'm sure somebody 456 00:24:00,489 --> 00:24:02,822 wants to jump in with both feet and try everything. 457 00:24:02,970 --> 00:24:06,460 But you can see what works and what works within the organization, 458 00:24:06,460 --> 00:24:09,822 within that culture, and you have to adjust accordingly. 459 00:24:09,822 --> 00:24:13,220 – Yes, any change initiative, the bigger the change initiative, 460 00:24:13,220 --> 00:24:16,130 the more drastic, the faster, the less it gets absorbed. 461 00:24:16,130 --> 00:24:22,989 And, so, it's always better to start small and to build momentum, to build buy-in, 462 00:24:22,989 --> 00:24:27,960 and make sure everyone is on board, and to give it time to work. 463 00:24:27,960 --> 00:24:32,322 So just because it's an idea, now, it needs to actually be put into writing. 464 00:24:32,322 --> 00:24:35,880 Then it needs to be put into practice and, then, in practice, 465 00:24:35,880 --> 00:24:40,822 the feedback loop needs to come back, with additional tweaks and optimizations 466 00:24:40,822 --> 00:24:42,989 for absorption, for, buy-in. 467 00:24:42,989 --> 00:24:45,190 And, then, management needs to, actually, 468 00:24:45,190 --> 00:24:49,489 make sure they're consistent with a new way and possibly even measure it 469 00:24:49,489 --> 00:24:52,822 to see the results, and hold people accountable to those results. 470 00:24:52,840 --> 00:24:57,322 And, then, that system has been utilized, let's say for a few months, 471 00:24:57,322 --> 00:25:03,039 now it's fully absorbed into that particular department, that was a lot of work. 472 00:25:03,039 --> 00:25:05,710 And you can do multiple, at the same time, 473 00:25:05,710 --> 00:25:09,322 but you can't do too many, at the same time, too fast. 474 00:25:09,322 --> 00:25:13,988 Because, again, the full absorption of the system never happens, 475 00:25:13,988 --> 00:25:14,970 so you never get the benefit. 476 00:25:14,970 --> 00:25:19,820 And, so, I'm always big on pushing people towards this strategy, 477 00:25:19,820 --> 00:25:23,822 and then letting them know that this is going to provide you benefit immediately, 478 00:25:23,822 --> 00:25:27,488 starting tomorrow, and in the future, for decades to come. 479 00:25:27,590 --> 00:25:29,488 But you have to always be going, 480 00:25:29,488 --> 00:25:33,179 maybe you have your foot in the pedal at 30 miles an hour today, 481 00:25:33,179 --> 00:25:36,300 40 tomorrow, 40 the next day. 482 00:25:36,300 --> 00:25:39,488 Maybe 10 miles an hour, during a really rough season, for a few months, 483 00:25:39,488 --> 00:25:40,821 but then back up to 20 miles an hour. 484 00:25:40,821 --> 00:25:44,321 But we have to always be going forward, and maybe just slam the accelerator 485 00:25:44,321 --> 00:25:46,321 and say, "We're going to 90 tomorrow." 486 00:25:46,321 --> 00:25:47,600 It's just not going to work. 487 00:25:47,600 --> 00:25:52,321 And, so, I'd rather see continuous progress, going forward, at a slow speed 488 00:25:52,321 --> 00:25:57,821 than stop/start, stop/start because those just kill change initiatives. 489 00:25:57,988 --> 00:26:02,821 – Yes, so as we look to the future, there are so many things changing. 490 00:26:02,940 --> 00:26:07,821 The markets, you've got inflations, you've got things like generative AI taking over. 491 00:26:07,821 --> 00:26:09,250 There are so many things happening. 492 00:26:09,250 --> 00:26:10,250 How do you see this work? 493 00:26:10,250 --> 00:26:12,640 The system method evolve in the future. 494 00:26:12,640 --> 00:26:14,600 Are there trends and different advances that you see 495 00:26:14,600 --> 00:26:15,988 that could influence this method? 496 00:26:16,155 --> 00:26:20,100 – Yes, so I think that the method is not going to change. 497 00:26:20,100 --> 00:26:24,654 This whole idea of leaders, and managers, and owners getting stuck, 498 00:26:24,654 --> 00:26:28,988 but needing to move beyond that, that's been around forever. 499 00:26:28,988 --> 00:26:31,988 You just need to have a clear strategy, clear principles, clear procedures, 500 00:26:31,988 --> 00:26:34,821 that's not going to change, that's been around forever. 501 00:26:34,821 --> 00:26:35,988 The thing is that change 502 00:26:35,988 --> 00:26:39,488 is new opportunities in technology and innovation. 503 00:26:39,580 --> 00:26:44,821 New ways to work instead of just working on an agrarian family business, 504 00:26:44,840 --> 00:26:49,490 with your relatives, we now have the Internet and international business. 505 00:26:49,490 --> 00:26:53,821 So there's a lot of ways to get a lot of work done, with a lot of great people 506 00:26:53,821 --> 00:26:58,154 that are not, necessarily, in your own backyard, and that's nothing new. 507 00:26:58,154 --> 00:26:59,940 And, then, the technology innovations, 508 00:26:59,940 --> 00:27:06,154 and abilities to use whether it's AI or automations, is obviously exploding 509 00:27:06,154 --> 00:27:08,654 and, then, the ways to use that are continuing to expand. 510 00:27:08,654 --> 00:27:12,090 And, so, I think that the more nimble you build your systems, 511 00:27:12,090 --> 00:27:16,080 the more you're going to be able to react to the changing marketplaces. 512 00:27:16,080 --> 00:27:18,350 Whereas maybe 50 years ago, things were a little bit more stable 513 00:27:18,350 --> 00:27:20,770 and you could build a system, and it'd be the same for 10 years. 514 00:27:20,770 --> 00:27:25,010 Now you build out your system and you have to stress test it, 515 00:27:25,010 --> 00:27:29,100 and evaluate it, and it might need to be modified more rapidly, more often. 516 00:27:29,100 --> 00:27:33,760 And you might need to be less dependent on a person doing it, 517 00:27:33,760 --> 00:27:36,987 like, "Hey, that's Ricky's system, he always does it great." 518 00:27:36,987 --> 00:27:41,321 Well, people are jumping around a lot more, they're less loyal to their employers, 519 00:27:41,321 --> 00:27:43,370 and they're more likely to move. 520 00:27:43,370 --> 00:27:47,200 And, so, you might need to focus more on the system being simple, 521 00:27:47,200 --> 00:27:49,487 and delegable, and dividable, 522 00:27:49,487 --> 00:27:54,050 as opposed to, "Well, I know Ricky is going to be here 20 years, so it's good enough." 523 00:27:54,050 --> 00:27:58,780 Because that's not the future of culture and business, I don't think. 524 00:27:58,780 --> 00:28:02,487 But I will tell you, this book, Work the System, I'm showing it on the video, 525 00:28:02,487 --> 00:28:05,820 I know no one sees the video, but Work the System, Sam Carpenter, 526 00:28:05,820 --> 00:28:07,987 the author of the book, he's had the same employees. 527 00:28:07,987 --> 00:28:10,820 After he shifted his mindset, shifted his strategy, 528 00:28:10,820 --> 00:28:14,654 pretty much all of his employees, eventually, got worked out of the business. 529 00:28:14,654 --> 00:28:16,950 And as he brought in new team members 530 00:28:16,950 --> 00:28:20,820 who embraced this strategy and embraced his philosophy, they've been with him 531 00:28:20,820 --> 00:28:23,654 for decades, some 20 plus years. 532 00:28:23,654 --> 00:28:27,987 And they love working there because it's calm, it's serene. 533 00:28:27,987 --> 00:28:30,190 They love working there because they do great work. 534 00:28:30,190 --> 00:28:32,830 They love working there because they get paid more there 535 00:28:32,830 --> 00:28:35,153 than they get paid anywhere else, doing the job they're doing 536 00:28:35,153 --> 00:28:39,080 because there's so much additional profit because it's being run so well. 537 00:28:39,080 --> 00:28:42,260 And, so, once someone works in a company like that, 538 00:28:42,260 --> 00:28:43,820 they don't want to go somewhere else. 539 00:28:43,820 --> 00:28:47,929 And, so, the more you build in the systems in your business, 540 00:28:47,929 --> 00:28:50,780 you're going to increase the longevity of your people. 541 00:28:50,780 --> 00:28:53,487 – Yes, well, Josh, you've got some great insights. 542 00:28:53,487 --> 00:28:56,820 Everybody, please take a look at the show notes for links to the books, 543 00:28:56,820 --> 00:28:58,487 and to connect with Josh. 544 00:28:58,487 --> 00:29:01,320 And, thank you so much for coming on the podcast, today. 545 00:29:01,320 --> 00:29:02,320 – Hey, great to be here, Adam. 546 00:29:02,320 --> 00:29:04,320 < Outro > 547 00:29:04,320 --> 00:29:07,986 – This has been Count Me In, IMA's podcast, providing you 548 00:29:07,986 --> 00:29:09,320 with the latest perspectives 549 00:29:09,320 --> 00:29:11,986 of thought leaders from the accounting and finance profession. 550 00:29:11,986 --> 00:29:14,680 If you like what you heard and you'd like to be counted in, 551 00:29:14,680 --> 00:29:17,250 for more relevant accounting and finance education, 552 00:29:17,250 --> 00:29:23,486 visit IMA's website at www.imanet.org.