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Welcome to Soundbreaker.

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On today's episode, we are talking to
Peter Sinclair, who is a CEO and co

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-founder at Beat Bread.

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Love the name, Beat Bread.

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Peter, thank you for joining us today.

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And for our listeners who might not be
familiar with you, could you please

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introduce

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Hi, sorry, Thanks for having

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My pleasure.

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Absolutely.

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Peter, before we dive into it, is it
possible to take us just a bit back in

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your early days?

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Possibly teenage and what get you really
kind of, should I say, focused, passionate

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about the music business?

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Was it something with the family or a
friend, you're part of a band?

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Just give us a little bit of that and take
us to the future.

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Yeah, sure.

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So, you know, I would always describe and
always do describe myself as an accidental

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participant in the music industry.

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I would have never I grew up in a very,
very small town, literally in the middle

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of the woods.

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couldn't see a house from my house in
rural Vermont and never thought in a

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million years I'd live in Los Angeles or
work in entertainment.

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I, you know, went to school and I met a
girl and I moved to Los Angeles.

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And then, even then, never thought that I
would work in entertainment.

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I have a child who has severe autism.

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And I was working at startups in different
industries.

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And I had to leave the startups because
things were just so crazy at home.

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And literally, Recruiter called me out of
the blue.

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And Universal Music was looking to hire
someone who'd had success in startups,

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which I had had, and who never worked in
music before.

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That was actually a job requirement.

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And so that's the accidental way that I
backed in the music industry back almost

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10 years

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Wow, what a pretty interesting accidental
situation.

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Love it.

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Okay, let's come back to the future and we
say, how did you experience that McKinsey

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shape your approach to business and
leadership?

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Yeah.

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I mean, so first of all, let me just say I
would not trade my experience at McKinsey

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for the world.

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I did not go to business school.

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I was one of the lucky folks who was hired
there out of business school.

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I learned a lot about business.

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Um, that said, I also need to say that
those videos circulating that make fun of

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McKinsey are 100 % spot on and I laugh at
them.

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Um, there's much truth in jest.

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Um, but you know, McKinsey, I learned how
to talk to lots of different kinds of

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people.

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how to structure a problem.

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But I very quickly knew that I did not
want to work in some gigantic corporation

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for my entire life on episodic projects.

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I like digging in a little deeper into a
problem for a longer period of time and

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really owning it.

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So I learned a bit about myself, but it
also opened a lot of doors for me.

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And then Provide was sort of the opposite
experience.

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Provide was all about getting things done.

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There was no pretense.

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There was no emphasis on a fancy
background or a fancy degree.

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One of the smartest CEOs, Bill Strauss,
I've ever worked with.

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I learned a ton from him in my very brief
time there.

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And he never graduated from college.

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But he is honestly one of the smartest
people I've ever worked with.

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And interesting, at Green Dot, my next
gig, Street, also one of the most

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impressive people that I've ever worked
with, also dropped out of college.

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And so I think the value of, you know,
stake over sizzle and just getting things

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done and really sound judgment is
something that I really value in both

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those experiences post McKinsey.

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McKinsey was very much about pedigree.

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not saying there weren't smart people
there, but it lacked the level of

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substance that I really valued at those
next two companies.

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Well, Green Dot, let's talk about it for a
second.

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mean, you can, what were the key, I would
say, lessons that you learned with scaling

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business during your time at Green Dot?

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I think, I think, you know, the lesson at,
you know, Green Dot, I worked in a couple

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of roles before I started the direct to
consumer division there.

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We were primarily retail business.

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And so I learned the business for about
two years.

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And then we wanted to go direct to
consumer and it literally started with me

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and a whiteboard and a little bit of
support from the president of the company.

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And then we hired some developers and then
we tested a couple of different offers.

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Um, some of them failed.

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Um, and then, and then we really figured
it out and then we scaled and then we were

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doing, you know, more than $50 million a
year, uh, in, less than two years.

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And it has since gone on to even bigger.

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And I think, you know, really focusing on
the component pieces of what makes a

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successful business.

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How do you make something that is
operationally simple, that is easy to

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explain, um,

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makes money at the base level, but also
really works for the consumer.

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And not getting ahead of yourself and
trying to grow something too quickly, too

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fast, and just getting it right.

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Because once you've got it right, then you
can scale it.

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And that was the first time that I was
directly involved from sort of day zero on

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a business.

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And that was a very rewarding experience.

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So yeah, just keep to the basics and don't
get too impatient.

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with result fundamentals

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You know, I guess working on McKinsey and
Green Dot kind of gave you that ammunition

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and the experience when you went and
worked for Universal Music Groups, you

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were responsible of that rapid kind of
revenue growth in their commerce channel.

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Tell us about

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Yeah.

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mean, listen, it was a great run and I met
great people at McKinsey, sorry, McKinsey,

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but also at Universal.

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Universal was there for about five years.

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You know, I had a ton of help.

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My boss is Michelle Anthony, who really
opened a lot of doors for me because, you

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Universal is, it's not really one company.

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It's a series of labels.

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They're, they're consolidating, but even
within the label.

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There are different people with different
relationships with artists, and it's

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really actually a really fragmented and
decentralized place.

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The artist is at the center and the
company is just sort of trying to serve

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the artist, and it's very hard to do
things in a coordinated way.

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So I would have gotten nowhere without the
help of her.

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And then because I was new to the music
industry, I hired some folks who had

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experience because I literally knew
nothing.

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to help me sort of speak the language and
navigate.

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So Matthew Tilly, who is now our head of
artist relations at BeatBread, was one of

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my first hires.

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So I had a ton of help, including from the
label presidents.

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So, you know, that was really helpful.

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I think in terms of the success we had
there, you know, I inherited the commerce

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business.

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It was globally less than $10 million when
I started.

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It was more than 200 million when I
finished.

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But honestly, that's not a function

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of any particular genius of me or anyone
on my team.

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It just wasn't a priority for the business
when I started and the business was

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changing as I walked in.

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And so there was a bit of serendipity and
also, as my father always used to tell me,

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you can't fall off the floor.

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There's a billion dollar opportunity for e
-commerce and universal.

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it's by the way, way bigger now than since
I've left.

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Mm

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And it just was an untapped opportunity
and I really had to just not screw it up,

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if I can be totally honest.

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So you came in, you integrated your
business finance background and also tech

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background.

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You kind of integrated both into Universal
and that's what really drove the growth.

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I wouldn't say where they are now, but you
know what I mean, you contribute a lot to

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that

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Yeah, I mean, just to be clear, it was
just the e -commerce piece, right?

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mean, fundamentally, what drives that
business is the arias and the music,

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right?

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And e -commerce is a nice way to monetize
around that and, you know, goose some

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chart numbers and week one and week two.

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But, you know, as big as that business is
today, it's still, you know, a very small

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portion of the total business.

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You know, I think in terms of integration,
it's really hard, frankly.

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I

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On the point of integration and really
getting technology right, I would say it

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was more frustration than success.

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We were able to motivate artists to do
things on pretty simple technology there.

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And really the experience of seeing how
hard it was for a one company to try and

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serve all the unique circumstances of
artists.

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was one of the insights that led to Beat
Bread because we never did it right as

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well as it could have been because every
artist is different and it is impossible

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as smart as everyone is that I work for
the Universal and almost every single one

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of was really good at their job.

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the music industry is so fragmented and
there's so many different kinds of

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artists.

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It is impossible knowing how good you are
to serve well.

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each artist the same, right?

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There's just something about fit and focus
and all those things.

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And so, you know, it was more about
Michelle's success in getting the label

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presence behind the idea of using some
very basic technology to push e -commerce.

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I wanted to do something where we were
going to centralize a bunch of data and

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really be the sort of central engine that
would drive a bunch of new audience for

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artists.

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We never succeeded at that.

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And it's just because I think it's
basically impossible in the music industry

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to be that centralized.

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And so, BeatBread, the idea is rather than
try to be all things to all people, find a

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way to let artists pick their own
marketing team, their own producers, their

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own strategy, and then have a financing
solution

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is interoperable with all those different
situations.

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So we have an unbundled finance solution,
and we don't offer any services or any

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marketing, not because services and
marketing aren't important, but because

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they're so important.

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And it's so hard to do it in a sort
monolithic one size fits all way, if that

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makes sense.

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gonna work.

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You see, you know, you've been through it
all obviously and you came in to the music

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business and you don't leave the music
business, but you said, hey, there's

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something missing there and you took all
of that experience and you started

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BeatBread, which is I was on, I was on
your platform the other day and I was, I

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said, I never seen anything like this.

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This is new.

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He's not a bank.

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He's not, he's not given loans.

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He's funding.

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He's like literally the VC for music
artists, which doesn't exist.

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Honestly, it's a genius idea and

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Thank

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Absolutely.

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just going back for a sec to Universal,
not to put Universal now, the leading

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record.

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Yes.

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Yeah.

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Absolutely.

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Absolutely.

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But the music business in general, I'm
sure you learned that, that fundamentally

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it's very old and it's very hard to push
new ways and new ideas.

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It's not that easy.

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Beside the political game that you would
have to

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or the political ladder game that you
would have to work if you were in a court

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big, you know, one of the top five labels,
major labels.

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It just, it's set in certain ways that is
very, very hard to change.

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There's always a pushback for technology,
for new ideas.

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You know, it's like the Supreme Court,
they don't have a bunch of 25, 30, 40 year

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old sitting there.

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You're talking 80, 70, 90 year olds.

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And they're set with their own ways.

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So they go by old ways of doing things.

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I don't know, it's because there are
profits, you know, it takes a minute for

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them to set and to make things profitable
and they don't want to get out of it.

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You know, it was such a hard thing when
the music business went from physical to

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digital.

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Major pushback, major.

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Then in the end, when the minute they cave
in, didn't cave in that easy.

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They cave in and they were owning so much
of it that they made sure all the money

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still comes to them

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Yeah, I mean, think what the majors are
good at is, you I think all artists,

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whether you're on a major or not, even if
you're independent, it's a good thing that

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Sony, Warner and Universal are negotiating
with YouTube, Spotify and Apple, right?

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And there's some sort of bargaining power
that happens that washes over to the

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independent sector.

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So I think they're good at that

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they're also very good at the stuff that
really still requires gatekeepers and

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relationships, right?

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00:13:37,426 --> 00:13:43,251
So whether it's a major label or someone
with a skillset of a major label, know,

234
00:13:43,251 --> 00:13:49,365
something like the Queen movie doesn't
happen without people who understand the

235
00:13:49,365 --> 00:13:54,879
music industry, have contacts with the
major studios, like all those things are

236
00:13:54,879 --> 00:13:55,229
great.

237
00:13:55,229 --> 00:13:59,042
So once an artist is like become an icon,

238
00:13:59,596 --> 00:14:03,512
I still think there's no better place for
them to live than a major label.

239
00:14:03,512 --> 00:14:06,462
Yeah, I mean even the Doors movie, if you
remember back in the day when they came

240
00:14:06,462 --> 00:14:07,636
out with the movie, The Doors.

241
00:14:07,636 --> 00:14:08,700
You remember that movie?

242
00:14:08,700 --> 00:14:09,560
Yeah.

243
00:14:09,563 --> 00:14:10,385
Yeah.

244
00:14:10,385 --> 00:14:10,691
Yeah.

245
00:14:10,691 --> 00:14:12,532
know, they're more coming, right?

246
00:14:12,532 --> 00:14:18,295
And so that kind of stuff where it's
about, you know, entertainment power

247
00:14:18,295 --> 00:14:23,897
brokers, I think that the majors are
great, right?

248
00:14:23,897 --> 00:14:30,620
I think what you see, is majors are
shedding frontline staff.

249
00:14:30,620 --> 00:14:34,512
You know, the CEO of Sony has been very
overt that catalog acquisition is their

250
00:14:34,512 --> 00:14:35,542
strategy.

251
00:14:35,762 --> 00:14:38,764
And it's sort of like the pharma industry,
right?

252
00:14:38,764 --> 00:14:44,468
In the pharma industry, Merck and Bayer,
they don't discover any new drugs.

253
00:14:44,828 --> 00:14:51,153
Biotechs do all that development work, do
the hard work, develop the drug, and then

254
00:14:51,153 --> 00:14:53,904
once it's a blockbuster, then they just go
and they distribute it.

255
00:14:53,904 --> 00:14:56,398
Right.

256
00:14:57,957 --> 00:15:02,610
And so I think that's sort of a good
analogy for what has already happened, but

257
00:15:02,610 --> 00:15:05,230
I think will continue to happen in the
music industry.

258
00:15:05,230 --> 00:15:09,990
I think it's a little scarier for the
majors than for Merck or those guys,

259
00:15:09,990 --> 00:15:14,330
because Merck has sort of, there's
regulatory connections it has that are

260
00:15:14,330 --> 00:15:15,330
important.

261
00:15:16,110 --> 00:15:21,850
You know, unless you're 30 years into your
career and you really reach that icon

262
00:15:21,850 --> 00:15:29,210
status, it's not clear that, you know, the
next Beyonce really needs a major anymore.

263
00:15:29,210 --> 00:15:31,730
But there is a role to play for the
majors.

264
00:15:31,730 --> 00:15:34,630
I just think it's a much smaller role than
in his history.

265
00:15:34,702 --> 00:15:35,816
If that makes sense.

266
00:15:35,922 --> 00:15:38,283
So let's talk about BeatBread.

267
00:15:38,283 --> 00:15:42,904
Where the idea came from, you know,
obviously you did think outside of the

268
00:15:42,904 --> 00:15:43,184
box.

269
00:15:43,184 --> 00:15:47,085
You didn't say, I'm going to do what the
majors do, but a little different.

270
00:15:47,085 --> 00:15:52,667
No, you just thought of a whole new idea,
a whole new, you added another way in the,

271
00:15:52,667 --> 00:15:56,288
or another, how should I say, another
platform to the music business.

272
00:15:56,288 --> 00:15:57,888
You didn't take an existing platform.

273
00:15:57,888 --> 00:15:59,449
like, you know what, I'm to do something.

274
00:15:59,449 --> 00:16:04,846
So where the idea just came from, because
funding artists is amazingly clever.

275
00:16:04,846 --> 00:16:07,578
You know, if you know what you're doing
because you need to get the money back

276
00:16:07,578 --> 00:16:09,645
because you're dumping all this money

277
00:16:09,950 --> 00:16:14,810
I think it's, mean, if I can be honest
about it, it's the things that led to

278
00:16:14,810 --> 00:16:17,730
Bebred were ignorance and pain.

279
00:16:18,330 --> 00:16:25,190
So, I had the benefit of ignorance in that
I walked into universal music in Q1 of

280
00:16:25,190 --> 00:16:26,250
2015.

281
00:16:26,250 --> 00:16:30,130
And if you look at global recorded music
industries, I literally walked in at the

282
00:16:30,130 --> 00:16:31,710
bottom, right?

283
00:16:31,710 --> 00:16:34,890
I'm one of the few people that's been in
the music industry now for as long as I

284
00:16:34,890 --> 00:16:37,570
have, who's never seen it do anything
other

285
00:16:38,102 --> 00:16:38,442
Right.

286
00:16:38,442 --> 00:16:40,323
That's just dumb luck and all those
things.

287
00:16:40,323 --> 00:16:44,836
But when I walked in, things were changing
very rapidly.

288
00:16:44,836 --> 00:16:48,048
Streaming was less than a billion dollars,
but people are starting to see legs on it.

289
00:16:48,048 --> 00:16:51,420
And so I think I had the benefit of
ignorance and fresh eyes.

290
00:16:51,420 --> 00:16:51,950
Point one.

291
00:16:51,950 --> 00:16:59,314
Point two is I was hired to grow this e
-commerce business and super fans and VIPs

292
00:16:59,314 --> 00:17:03,687
at shows all the end, like, possibly build
this big data platform, which we never

293
00:17:03,687 --> 00:17:04,531
succeeded at.

294
00:17:04,531 --> 00:17:05,301
-hmm.

295
00:17:07,692 --> 00:17:13,515
What I found was about half the artists
managers that my boss, Michelle Anthony,

296
00:17:13,515 --> 00:17:21,119
would have me go talk to, and she was
fantastic, hated my guts before they even

297
00:17:21,119 --> 00:17:22,650
had any reason to know me.

298
00:17:22,650 --> 00:17:23,421
I never met them.

299
00:17:23,421 --> 00:17:24,721
I never done anything.

300
00:17:24,721 --> 00:17:26,932
I never committed to anything.

301
00:17:27,033 --> 00:17:33,786
And the reason was that they'd signed
these big major label deals and I was

302
00:17:33,786 --> 00:17:36,538
going in to sell them on VIP.

303
00:17:36,590 --> 00:17:42,750
e -commerce, CRM data, and half those
managers didn't need me.

304
00:17:42,990 --> 00:17:46,770
Like literally one manager walked me
across the street and said, oh, you mean

305
00:17:46,770 --> 00:17:48,130
digital strategy?

306
00:17:48,130 --> 00:17:52,649
And he showed me his room with 30
employees of under 30 who were doing

307
00:17:52,649 --> 00:17:53,530
social.

308
00:17:53,530 --> 00:17:55,710
And I was like, hmm, that's interesting.

309
00:17:55,770 --> 00:18:03,070
And so what I saw was major labels in the
streaming era are no longer the

310
00:18:03,070 --> 00:18:04,130
indispensable partner.

311
00:18:04,130 --> 00:18:05,830
So I'd say that major labels don't add

312
00:18:06,542 --> 00:18:11,002
But it's possible to have a digital
marketing team that's not the major label.

313
00:18:11,442 --> 00:18:13,902
You can produce your own stuff.

314
00:18:13,962 --> 00:18:19,622
Critically, distribution, you no longer
need some huge relationship with a store

315
00:18:19,622 --> 00:18:20,862
or even app iTunes.

316
00:18:20,862 --> 00:18:24,462
You require those gatekeeper
relationships.

317
00:18:24,462 --> 00:18:28,422
It's very easy to get your songs
everywhere in the world for $20 a year,

318
00:18:28,422 --> 00:18:29,479
all of your songs.

319
00:18:29,479 --> 00:18:30,281
Absolutely, yes.

320
00:18:30,281 --> 00:18:33,900
You get the tune chords, you know, all of
them, yeah.

321
00:18:33,900 --> 00:18:37,032
And then radio is not how artists break
anymore.

322
00:18:37,232 --> 00:18:39,654
Radio is trail streaming, not the reverse.

323
00:18:39,654 --> 00:18:45,418
So what I saw was there are all these
services that Label's trying to do.

324
00:18:45,418 --> 00:18:47,099
They weren't totally necessary.

325
00:18:47,099 --> 00:18:52,003
And because the label can't be one size
fits all, I was at the point of the spear

326
00:18:52,003 --> 00:18:55,165
trying to sell these things that were not
necessary.

327
00:18:55,165 --> 00:18:56,586
And I got a lot of resentment.

328
00:18:56,586 --> 00:19:02,629
And so then I started talking to Label
presidents about it.

329
00:19:02,890 --> 00:19:03,330
I was new.

330
00:19:03,330 --> 00:19:04,411
said, guys, what am I doing wrong?

331
00:19:04,411 --> 00:19:05,973
Like, I'm not, I'm a big boy.

332
00:19:05,973 --> 00:19:08,114
You can tell me like, how do I change?

333
00:19:08,175 --> 00:19:11,778
And usually the conversation was you're,
you're, you're doing fine.

334
00:19:11,778 --> 00:19:13,940
Your numbers are growing.

335
00:19:13,940 --> 00:19:14,600
it's not you.

336
00:19:14,600 --> 00:19:15,791
They also hate our radio team.

337
00:19:15,791 --> 00:19:18,043
They hate our digital team that I'm
finally, after like the fourth

338
00:19:18,043 --> 00:19:19,304
conversation, I've learned it out.

339
00:19:19,304 --> 00:19:21,045
said, well, what are we just to check?

340
00:19:21,306 --> 00:19:25,089
And one of the major, one of the major
label presidents literally started

341
00:19:25,089 --> 00:19:25,970
laughing at me.

342
00:19:25,970 --> 00:19:29,232
Like I was his nine year old son.

343
00:19:29,232 --> 00:19:30,454
like, yeah, dummy.

344
00:19:30,454 --> 00:19:31,416
And

345
00:19:31,416 --> 00:19:34,498
But to be clear, I don't think that's true
for every artist, but I think for about

346
00:19:34,498 --> 00:19:39,111
half the artists on the major label
system, the label is just a check.

347
00:19:39,332 --> 00:19:44,675
And if that's the case, the label is a
terrible way just to get a check, right?

348
00:19:44,936 --> 00:19:49,990
We are a much more efficient, much
smarter, much leaner and more flexible

349
00:19:49,990 --> 00:19:51,300
tech.

350
00:19:51,401 --> 00:19:56,014
And then the manager can choose the
services that the label would otherwise

351
00:19:56,014 --> 00:19:59,414
provide, cheaper, more nimble.

352
00:19:59,414 --> 00:20:03,106
They can fire their marketing team if they
don't like them two years in versus if

353
00:20:03,106 --> 00:20:07,559
you're in a major label deal, it's pretty
hard to fire the label, right?

354
00:20:07,559 --> 00:20:15,182
So the pain of that experience of having
to try and do that and getting the

355
00:20:15,182 --> 00:20:17,805
negative feedback sort of led to the
insight.

356
00:20:17,805 --> 00:20:18,605
So

357
00:20:18,911 --> 00:20:20,074
Interesting.

358
00:20:20,499 --> 00:20:22,786
And that's what idea BeatBread came

359
00:20:22,786 --> 00:20:28,993
Yeah, so the idea for Deep Red is how do
we do the check if that's all that half

360
00:20:28,993 --> 00:20:34,219
the artists are there for, not all, but
half, and then let them choose, right?

361
00:20:34,219 --> 00:20:37,233
I thought we could do the, if we could
just focus on the check, we could do the

362
00:20:37,233 --> 00:20:40,576
check better and then give people choice.

363
00:20:40,946 --> 00:20:41,957
Let's talk about BeepRed.

364
00:20:41,957 --> 00:20:42,957
Let's break it down.

365
00:20:42,957 --> 00:20:45,819
The services from A to Z, if you don't
mind.

366
00:20:45,819 --> 00:20:50,311
Because I'm intrigued and I'm sure our
viewers and listeners at Soundbreakers and

367
00:20:50,311 --> 00:20:53,003
some of them are artists, upcoming artists
or existing artists.

368
00:20:53,003 --> 00:20:54,174
They say, hey, you know what?

369
00:20:54,174 --> 00:20:56,155
BeepRed is the way to go.

370
00:20:56,155 --> 00:20:56,814
Please.

371
00:20:56,814 --> 00:20:57,675
I'm very intrigued.

372
00:20:57,675 --> 00:21:02,668
I want to know actually about the business
concept and how does it work and how does

373
00:21:02,668 --> 00:21:02,818
it...

374
00:21:02,818 --> 00:21:05,000
And obviously, it does empower artists.

375
00:21:05,000 --> 00:21:09,476
And we're in an era right now where
artists are gaining more and wanting more

376
00:21:09,476 --> 00:21:11,509
because they know the game, they see
what's happening.

377
00:21:11,509 --> 00:21:15,083
They say, well, what, you know what, as
you said, you know, I don't think another

378
00:21:15,083 --> 00:21:18,537
beyond, you know, the majors, or if
there's another Beyonce, she doesn't have

379
00:21:18,537 --> 00:21:20,720
to go the major label route.

380
00:21:20,720 --> 00:21:22,575
There's different routes you could do,
yes.

381
00:21:22,575 --> 00:21:23,496
That's right.

382
00:21:23,496 --> 00:21:28,457
So the way it works from an artist, and we
also fund independent labels, to be clear,

383
00:21:29,618 --> 00:21:34,080
yeah, yeah.

384
00:21:34,120 --> 00:21:37,141
So you come to our website.

385
00:21:37,141 --> 00:21:39,242
You can type in information.

386
00:21:39,242 --> 00:21:44,124
We have APIs, a bunch of different
streaming services, charting services.

387
00:21:44,124 --> 00:21:45,725
We pull down a bunch of data.

388
00:21:45,725 --> 00:21:49,605
And then we very quickly will give an
estimate.

389
00:21:49,870 --> 00:21:51,110
that is actually flexible.

390
00:21:51,110 --> 00:21:53,810
The artist can choose, it, do they want a
one -year deal?

391
00:21:53,810 --> 00:21:55,810
Do they want a 20 -year deal?

392
00:21:56,010 --> 00:21:59,690
Do they want to include new music in the
deal that's unreleased or not?

393
00:21:59,690 --> 00:22:01,010
They want flow -through income.

394
00:22:01,010 --> 00:22:02,330
We give them a dashboard.

395
00:22:02,330 --> 00:22:04,290
That is just a range.

396
00:22:05,130 --> 00:22:08,050
Then they upload their distribution
reports.

397
00:22:08,230 --> 00:22:12,590
And then we actually machine read all
those reports and we rerun our model.

398
00:22:12,590 --> 00:22:15,910
So my co -founder, who's not on the call,
is the brains behind all this.

399
00:22:15,910 --> 00:22:18,483
He's very, very good at this.

400
00:22:18,483 --> 00:22:25,907
interrupt, so pretty much basically you do
an AI or whatever technology you're using

401
00:22:25,907 --> 00:22:29,289
to evaluate, artist evaluation.

402
00:22:29,309 --> 00:22:33,712
And all this information the artist gives
you, and then you'll say, okay, this

403
00:22:33,712 --> 00:22:35,913
artist is worth this much.

404
00:22:36,013 --> 00:22:37,464
Or that's what kind

405
00:22:37,834 --> 00:22:39,394
particular term.

406
00:22:39,554 --> 00:22:43,754
So the artists can also adjust, they want
a short -term deal, do they want it on

407
00:22:43,754 --> 00:22:46,414
just some of their music, do they want it
on new music or not.

408
00:22:46,414 --> 00:22:49,854
So it's all, the other key point is not
just that we can predict the future, which

409
00:22:49,854 --> 00:22:51,194
we've done very well.

410
00:22:51,194 --> 00:22:57,570
We've done about 1200 deals from as small
as $1 ,000 up to $6 million.

411
00:22:57,570 --> 00:23:01,870
Hey, if you have a prediction AI tools
installed in your platform, great.

412
00:23:01,870 --> 00:23:05,590
Yeah, so within the life of the company,
and I'm not making this claim about every

413
00:23:05,590 --> 00:23:08,810
single deal, but in aggregate, it cost us
1 ,200 deals.

414
00:23:09,190 --> 00:23:16,670
Our collected cash flows to our predicted
cash flows are within 2%.

415
00:23:16,670 --> 00:23:17,830
Yep.

416
00:23:17,830 --> 00:23:18,650
Yep.

417
00:23:18,750 --> 00:23:19,150
Yeah.

418
00:23:19,150 --> 00:23:23,450
And so we're really good at that.

419
00:23:23,690 --> 00:23:29,010
And then we make it very easy for the
artist to choose the structure that works

420
00:23:29,010 --> 00:23:29,970
for them.

421
00:23:30,092 --> 00:23:34,646
We've just started rolling out tools that
allow them to run scenarios of different

422
00:23:34,646 --> 00:23:39,390
growth and actually see their cash flows
and their impact.

423
00:23:39,390 --> 00:23:45,335
And even compare a deal with us with the
deal outside.

424
00:23:45,596 --> 00:23:50,881
And the goal is we just want to them have
informed trade -offs.

425
00:23:50,881 --> 00:23:54,214
And so there are times we tell someone, we
can't beat that deal.

426
00:23:54,214 --> 00:23:57,322
You should take their deal, not ours.

427
00:23:57,322 --> 00:24:00,288
And we think in the long run that's better
for artists and better for us.

428
00:24:00,288 --> 00:24:01,951
So, yeah.

429
00:24:01,951 --> 00:24:03,933
pretty much you fund the artist.

430
00:24:03,933 --> 00:24:07,647
Now this money that they get, is it for
recording studio?

431
00:24:07,647 --> 00:24:08,688
Is it for marketing?

432
00:24:08,688 --> 00:24:10,198
What is it used for?

433
00:24:11,000 --> 00:24:13,730
Do you dictate that or once they get the
check?

434
00:24:13,730 --> 00:24:15,770
of the time, we don't dictate it.

435
00:24:15,770 --> 00:24:20,450
Now, there are times when we will co
-invest with an independent label or a

436
00:24:20,450 --> 00:24:24,530
distributor who will earmark a portion of
it, say, for, marketing.

437
00:24:25,350 --> 00:24:28,590
But 90 % of the time, we don't tell them
anything.

438
00:24:28,590 --> 00:24:35,730
In practice, more than 60 % of the artists
are using the money very directly to fund

439
00:24:35,730 --> 00:24:42,310
their next project, to shoot the video, to
pay the producer,

440
00:24:42,584 --> 00:24:45,947
through the digital marketing spend to pay
for the video.

441
00:24:45,947 --> 00:24:47,891
ask how do you get your money back?

442
00:24:47,891 --> 00:24:50,146
How does BeepRate get their money back?

443
00:24:50,146 --> 00:24:52,228
If you cannot answer, that's fine.

444
00:24:52,228 --> 00:24:53,448
No, no, no, I can answer.

445
00:24:53,448 --> 00:24:54,889
So it's very simple, actually.

446
00:24:54,889 --> 00:25:01,013
we are advancing against digital revenues.

447
00:25:01,034 --> 00:25:07,598
So we're connecting with the distributor,
and we work with hundreds of distributors.

448
00:25:07,598 --> 00:25:12,241
So the money that we're advancing against,
it is then coming to us first.

449
00:25:12,322 --> 00:25:16,945
And then sometimes the artist is, we then
pay through monthly a share to them,

450
00:25:16,945 --> 00:25:18,816
depending on how cool they choose.

451
00:25:19,230 --> 00:25:24,363
But we're attaching basically in the flow
of funds upstream of the artist or

452
00:25:24,363 --> 00:25:25,854
upstream of the label.

453
00:25:25,854 --> 00:25:28,255
And that's how we collect our money.

454
00:25:28,255 --> 00:25:29,656
we don't collect on vinyl.

455
00:25:29,656 --> 00:25:32,457
We don't collect on touring.

456
00:25:32,457 --> 00:25:35,519
We do do publishing advances.

457
00:25:35,519 --> 00:25:36,940
We don't collect on merch.

458
00:25:36,940 --> 00:25:41,992
So only digital and digital publishing.

459
00:25:42,030 --> 00:25:45,365
I'm surprised you're not involved in
collecting on Turing also because you're

460
00:25:45,365 --> 00:25:46,556
advancing the money.

461
00:25:46,556 --> 00:25:51,913
If sometimes the digital revenues doesn't
come up, doesn't, you know, scale up or

462
00:25:51,913 --> 00:25:54,567
come up to the, what do you guys predict
it?

463
00:25:54,567 --> 00:25:56,750
Then the money has to come from somewhere
else, no?

464
00:25:56,750 --> 00:25:58,990
Yeah, no, that, that, yeah.

465
00:25:58,990 --> 00:26:01,710
So we have no legal claim on anything
else.

466
00:26:01,710 --> 00:26:06,990
Um, and if you want to use our money for a
tour or use our money for printing vinyl

467
00:26:06,990 --> 00:26:10,510
and selling it and keeping all that's all
fine, there may be a time in the future

468
00:26:10,510 --> 00:26:15,970
when you see us making advances on tours,
um, that will not be in 2024.

469
00:26:16,230 --> 00:26:20,490
Um, you know, stay tuned for that, but,
but I'm not, I'm I'm, I'm sounding all

470
00:26:20,490 --> 00:26:22,270
cryptic, like there's some huge
announcement coming.

471
00:26:22,270 --> 00:26:24,128
There may not be touring like.

472
00:26:24,128 --> 00:26:29,163
I'm asking a lot of questions also, a bit
little tedious questions, because for our

473
00:26:29,163 --> 00:26:33,717
viewers and listeners who might not be
familiar with your platform.

474
00:26:33,717 --> 00:26:38,001
Now, once you make the deal with the
artist and you have a direct deal, you

475
00:26:38,001 --> 00:26:39,373
said we work with a lot of distributors.

476
00:26:39,373 --> 00:26:42,616
Now, obviously these days there's
something they call the DSPs, which are

477
00:26:42,616 --> 00:26:43,947
the digital platforms.

478
00:26:43,947 --> 00:26:47,342
There's the distributors and there's also
aggregators, you

479
00:26:47,342 --> 00:26:51,266
So do you have a direct deal with them
that your money comes to you first and

480
00:26:51,266 --> 00:26:54,049
then once it recoup, they stop paying him?

481
00:26:54,150 --> 00:26:54,890
Is

482
00:26:57,625 --> 00:27:02,669
we can attach at the distributor level for
most distributors, not all.

483
00:27:02,669 --> 00:27:09,525
We do have relationships with some of the
aggregators, where we can make an advance

484
00:27:09,525 --> 00:27:12,157
to an independent label or even a small
distributor.

485
00:27:12,157 --> 00:27:16,041
We're attaching upstream of the
distributor itself.

486
00:27:16,041 --> 00:27:22,542
And then we also have relationships that
allows

487
00:27:22,542 --> 00:27:28,787
to attach between the DSP and even the
aggregator.

488
00:27:28,787 --> 00:27:33,511
So it all depends upon the situation, the
best way to do that.

489
00:27:33,511 --> 00:27:38,374
But we've invested hard in all that.

490
00:27:38,530 --> 00:27:40,271
What an amazing concept.

491
00:27:40,612 --> 00:27:43,234
Really, Peter, what an amazing concept.

492
00:27:43,234 --> 00:27:48,018
And if I may ask, the artists that comes
to you, come to your platform, to your

493
00:27:48,018 --> 00:27:54,743
company, to a beat break, are they artists
that established artists, ex -major label

494
00:27:54,743 --> 00:28:00,142
artists or independent artists?

495
00:28:00,142 --> 00:28:10,922
Yeah, so we started mostly in artists in
the 10 ,000 to half a million monthly

496
00:28:10,922 --> 00:28:13,802
listener range, but that was 2021.

497
00:28:13,902 --> 00:28:16,442
We still serve a lot of those artists.

498
00:28:16,442 --> 00:28:18,982
We're doing more than a deal a day.

499
00:28:19,782 --> 00:28:26,976
But we have since, in the last year in
particular, started to fund artists

500
00:28:26,976 --> 00:28:31,407
in the millions and in some cases, tens of
millions of monthly listeners.

501
00:28:31,407 --> 00:28:37,399
Our first deal with an artist of that
size, an artist named Ellie Duhey, we

502
00:28:37,399 --> 00:28:42,440
actually helped her get out of a situation
with one of the major labels, who's been a

503
00:28:42,440 --> 00:28:45,901
great partner of ours, so I'm not gonna
call them out, but that relationship was

504
00:28:45,901 --> 00:28:52,693
not going well for Ellie, and she had one
hit called Middle of the Night.

505
00:28:52,693 --> 00:28:56,162
She was almost recouped, not fully
recouped on the deal.

506
00:28:56,162 --> 00:29:01,163
we were able to fund her to pay off her
undercoup balance and fund against the

507
00:29:01,163 --> 00:29:03,184
future revenue of that song.

508
00:29:03,384 --> 00:29:09,636
And now she has two additional hits, which
collectively are well over a billion

509
00:29:09,636 --> 00:29:11,687
streams.

510
00:29:11,687 --> 00:29:19,759
And she would have sort of been left
floundering in her major label deal had we

511
00:29:19,759 --> 00:29:21,469
not been able to help her that.

512
00:29:21,469 --> 00:29:23,909
We're starting to do more deals like

513
00:29:24,484 --> 00:29:30,799
and then we also do several, you know,
seven figure independent label deals

514
00:29:30,799 --> 00:29:32,461
because.

515
00:29:32,461 --> 00:29:35,283
Independent labels play a really
interesting role in the ecosystem.

516
00:29:35,283 --> 00:29:38,566
They are, they are those biotechs that I
talked about earlier when I was comparing

517
00:29:38,566 --> 00:29:44,090
music to, to, to, music into the pharma
industry.

518
00:29:44,090 --> 00:29:47,253
but you know, usually a major label,
sorry, an independent label is not taking

519
00:29:47,253 --> 00:29:48,734
a long run ownership stake.

520
00:29:48,734 --> 00:29:53,666
The artist is maintaining a great deal of
independence and autonomy.

521
00:29:53,666 --> 00:29:56,048
But the independent labels providing great
service, right?

522
00:29:56,048 --> 00:30:00,232
And so we think it's important to fund
them as well.

523
00:30:00,232 --> 00:30:04,546
And so we started to do those.

524
00:30:04,546 --> 00:30:05,016
Amazing.

525
00:30:05,016 --> 00:30:07,807
So how does beet bread make their bread?

526
00:30:07,827 --> 00:30:08,848
Somebody paid off.

527
00:30:08,848 --> 00:30:13,640
does so an artist fulfill you give them
let's say a half a million dollar and they

528
00:30:13,640 --> 00:30:18,952
did fulfill the half a million now,
obviously, you're not just in the

529
00:30:18,952 --> 00:30:20,012
exchange.

530
00:30:20,012 --> 00:30:25,171
There's always yeah you guys and again,
can we ask

531
00:30:25,171 --> 00:30:27,772
money costs money, like full stop.

532
00:30:27,772 --> 00:30:31,303
Now it's not a loan, meaning there's no
interest.

533
00:30:31,303 --> 00:30:38,356
we over predict how something's going to
do, there's no penalty, there's no

534
00:30:38,356 --> 00:30:39,957
interest that tolls up.

535
00:30:40,157 --> 00:30:45,289
We're to make back our money plus the cost
of our money and then it's over.

536
00:30:45,289 --> 00:30:52,191
There's a percentage, but it doesn't toll
up over time and

537
00:30:52,191 --> 00:30:57,294
absolutely very listen Listen, I mean,
this is amazing.

538
00:30:57,294 --> 00:31:02,477
I mean It's it's a gift to a lot of
artists actually really a gift, know your

539
00:31:02,477 --> 00:31:07,271
services and it's well worth every penny
that you charge on top of your What do you

540
00:31:07,271 --> 00:31:07,861
give them?

541
00:31:07,861 --> 00:31:08,710
You know?

542
00:31:08,710 --> 00:31:12,322
And the other thing is the cost of the
money depends upon the deal, right?

543
00:31:12,322 --> 00:31:17,265
If an artist wants to pick a shorter term
deal that also has characteristics that

544
00:31:17,265 --> 00:31:22,818
have less risk, then that, you the amount
of money on top of paying back is lower.

545
00:31:22,938 --> 00:31:27,430
If the artist wants to take a very long
term deal and we're funding three new

546
00:31:27,430 --> 00:31:31,873
albums that haven't even been created yet
and there's more risk, then the money is

547
00:31:31,873 --> 00:31:33,384
going to cost more, right?

548
00:31:33,384 --> 00:31:39,521
But it's, we don't do deals

549
00:31:39,521 --> 00:31:48,362
where the artist does not have greater
than a 50 % share of the revenue versus

550
00:31:48,362 --> 00:31:55,662
you see often record deals or major label
deals where it might be maybe 20 in the

551
00:31:55,662 --> 00:31:56,342
label's favor.

552
00:31:56,342 --> 00:32:00,482
Even if it's 50 -50, they also tack on
like a 30 % distro fee off the top.

553
00:32:00,482 --> 00:32:03,142
So effectively it's a 65 -35 deal.

554
00:32:03,582 --> 00:32:04,262
So.

555
00:32:04,982 --> 00:32:09,205
we tend to play in a zone where our money
is less expensive.

556
00:32:09,205 --> 00:32:15,970
And from a selfish standpoint, not selfish
is maybe the wrong word, we're in the

557
00:32:15,970 --> 00:32:22,094
singles and doubles business, meaning we
need to make a very good prediction.

558
00:32:22,094 --> 00:32:23,735
We're not gonna lose a lot of money.

559
00:32:23,735 --> 00:32:26,517
We're not gonna make a ton of money on any
given deal.

560
00:32:26,517 --> 00:32:30,409
And the artist should be in the vast
majority of cases recouped and then on

561
00:32:30,409 --> 00:32:31,300
their way.

562
00:32:31,300 --> 00:32:34,602
Whereas the major label model is

563
00:32:34,976 --> 00:32:36,687
it's a grand slam business.

564
00:32:36,687 --> 00:32:39,907
It's strike out nine times, make a grand
slam once.

565
00:32:39,907 --> 00:32:46,950
And the problem with that model, sorry, my
former colleagues, is every single artist

566
00:32:46,950 --> 00:32:48,010
is unhappy.

567
00:32:48,010 --> 00:32:52,311
The nine who didn't make it are never
gonna recoup and are gonna always gonna

568
00:32:52,311 --> 00:32:57,612
potentially be trapped in that deal for
potentially the life of their career.

569
00:32:58,073 --> 00:33:02,624
The one artist who is a grand slam is then
giving

570
00:33:02,624 --> 00:33:06,677
a huge amount of their income after they
recouped.

571
00:33:06,677 --> 00:33:09,959
And they resent that fact.

572
00:33:09,959 --> 00:33:13,171
Even though the label, like, there's
nothing wrong with that.

573
00:33:13,171 --> 00:33:16,834
Like, the label's not screwing anyone in
that deal because, you know, the artists

574
00:33:16,834 --> 00:33:20,596
who made it forget that they have to fund
everyone else and the label took a bet on

575
00:33:20,596 --> 00:33:21,106
them.

576
00:33:21,106 --> 00:33:24,488
But the result is still the same, that
everyone's unhappy.

577
00:33:24,569 --> 00:33:26,870
And that's not how we play the

578
00:33:27,574 --> 00:33:28,958
Interesting.

579
00:33:28,958 --> 00:33:32,785
What is the least amount of money be bread
up fronted the

580
00:33:33,197 --> 00:33:34,136
thousand

581
00:33:34,490 --> 00:33:36,428
Wow, $1 ,000.

582
00:33:36,428 --> 00:33:38,040
Yeah.

583
00:33:38,040 --> 00:33:40,283
the reason, by the way, that's hard.

584
00:33:40,283 --> 00:33:44,449
It's harder to do a thousand dollar deal
than a two million dollar deal.

585
00:33:44,449 --> 00:33:44,759
Right.

586
00:33:44,759 --> 00:33:45,336
You still need

587
00:33:45,336 --> 00:33:45,467
it?

588
00:33:45,467 --> 00:33:47,841
Did it make the thousand dollar back and
more?

589
00:33:48,128 --> 00:33:49,500
yeah, yeah, no, plenty of those.

590
00:33:49,500 --> 00:33:52,783
Yeah, but the point is, is you still need
to paper it.

591
00:33:52,783 --> 00:33:54,385
You still need to diligence it.

592
00:33:54,385 --> 00:33:56,277
You still need the whole process.

593
00:33:56,277 --> 00:33:59,750
And so we've invested a lot in business
process automation to do that.

594
00:34:00,712 --> 00:34:02,513
And we're really proud of that.

595
00:34:03,243 --> 00:34:04,734
Okay, what's the highest amount?

596
00:34:04,734 --> 00:34:08,388
I seen on your platform says three
million, I think six million?

597
00:34:08,388 --> 00:34:09,308
Yeah.

598
00:34:09,989 --> 00:34:11,090
What is the most?

599
00:34:11,090 --> 00:34:13,570
We've actually done a deal now for more
than six.

600
00:34:14,850 --> 00:34:20,750
And before the end of the year, we'll
probably add a digit there to the.

601
00:34:21,150 --> 00:34:23,390
It's probably a $100 million deal by end
of the year.

602
00:34:23,390 --> 00:34:27,470
I bet you before the end of year, have at
least one or two deals that are more than

603
00:34:27,470 --> 00:34:28,130
$10

604
00:34:28,426 --> 00:34:29,928
Unbelievable.

605
00:34:29,928 --> 00:34:33,351
Peter, you know, this is pretty amazing,
really.

606
00:34:33,351 --> 00:34:36,654
Now, I'm sure there's a lot of great
success stories.

607
00:34:36,654 --> 00:34:41,959
Can you share one success story that you
really kind of went through at BeepRed and

608
00:34:41,959 --> 00:34:46,092
you're very proud of and you still talk
about it till this day with an artist?

609
00:34:46,316 --> 00:34:49,377
Yeah, sure.

610
00:34:49,377 --> 00:34:53,919
I mean, I think the LED -HAI one on the
high side is something I'm really, proud

611
00:34:53,919 --> 00:34:56,470
of.

612
00:34:56,470 --> 00:35:04,223
On the B2B side, I'm particularly proud
of, and he doesn't, I'm just off the cuff

613
00:35:04,223 --> 00:35:06,054
here, I don't know if I'm mention it.

614
00:35:06,054 --> 00:35:11,637
There is a distributor called MAD
Solutions, -A -D.

615
00:35:11,637 --> 00:35:13,857
They're in Houston, actually, you're in
Houston.

616
00:35:13,857 --> 00:35:15,372
Houston and Lagos.

617
00:35:15,372 --> 00:35:23,347
So a Nigerian company, Domisile in the US,
that's now doing several hundred thousand

618
00:35:23,347 --> 00:35:27,949
dollars a month of collections and growing
fast and in the mix for some of the

619
00:35:27,949 --> 00:35:31,932
biggest acrobeatarius.

620
00:35:31,932 --> 00:35:39,536
Because we're data -driven and because our
North Star is empowerment of artists who

621
00:35:39,536 --> 00:35:43,397
might be otherwise neglected, it sort of
resonated.

622
00:35:43,446 --> 00:35:53,339
We wrote a pretty big check to a Nigerian
entrepreneur, which a lot of more

623
00:35:53,339 --> 00:35:57,490
traditional investors, sending money to
Nigeria is like a joke, right?

624
00:35:57,490 --> 00:36:00,041
And it's gone very well for him, very well
for us.

625
00:36:00,041 --> 00:36:03,892
I'm very proud of that relationship as
well.

626
00:36:03,892 --> 00:36:12,590
And then I think on the artist side, on
the small end, there's really a ton.

627
00:36:12,590 --> 00:36:16,870
I don't even remember the name of the
artist, but I'll have to look it up and I

628
00:36:16,870 --> 00:36:18,770
can maybe email you afterwards.

629
00:36:18,850 --> 00:36:24,590
There was a kid who's 20 years old who
lived in Montana, who's now got a, you

630
00:36:24,590 --> 00:36:28,390
know, he's still a developing artist, but
he's got, you know, a couple hundred

631
00:36:28,390 --> 00:36:30,110
thousand monthly listeners.

632
00:36:30,630 --> 00:36:35,350
When we found, when he found us rather, we
don't really find people, they find us.

633
00:36:35,350 --> 00:36:41,190
He had, you know, a few 10 ,000 and he
could not have moved to Nashville without

634
00:36:41,190 --> 00:36:42,190
our advance.

635
00:36:42,316 --> 00:36:43,836
It just, it was not possible.

636
00:36:43,836 --> 00:36:50,488
Like driving across the country, the gas,
a couple of months of rent, you know, and

637
00:36:50,488 --> 00:36:53,909
so, you know, we started a music career
there, right?

638
00:36:53,909 --> 00:36:57,290
And so there's lots of stories like that.

639
00:37:00,731 --> 00:37:09,024
Yeah, the sad part of it is I can't name
most of our deals because we do so many.

640
00:37:09,024 --> 00:37:09,925
Yes.

641
00:37:10,838 --> 00:37:13,754
It's something that makes me a little sad,
whereas the first couple, I know them all

642
00:37:13,754 --> 00:37:14,225
by heart.

643
00:37:14,225 --> 00:37:17,000
But yeah, so that's the deal.

644
00:37:17,006 --> 00:37:21,970
You know, what challenges did you face
building Beep Bread?

645
00:37:21,970 --> 00:37:25,884
I mean, it's a gift to a lot of artists,
honestly.

646
00:37:25,884 --> 00:37:29,397
But in the beginning, what were really the
most difficult challenges?

647
00:37:29,397 --> 00:37:34,481
Did a lot of people say, hey, this is a
loan shark company there, which is not.

648
00:37:34,670 --> 00:37:41,130
Yeah, no, I mean, I think the two biggest
challenges for us are one on the capital

649
00:37:41,130 --> 00:37:47,010
side, because, I don't have 200 million
dollars to give to people like we have

650
00:37:47,010 --> 00:37:50,190
obviously gone to banks and other things.

651
00:37:50,350 --> 00:37:55,570
And then on the artist side, so, know, on
the the on the.

652
00:37:55,570 --> 00:38:02,490
Capital side, you know, just convincing
people that we're being smart, you

653
00:38:02,836 --> 00:38:06,778
Traditional financiers hear music and they
either they're like, I'll buy Bruce

654
00:38:06,778 --> 00:38:07,279
Springsteen.

655
00:38:07,279 --> 00:38:11,871
But this stuff that you guys are talking
about sounds really weird and janky to me.

656
00:38:11,871 --> 00:38:16,554
And so showing with data and proving out
that what we could do, you we, our first

657
00:38:16,554 --> 00:38:20,416
facility, funding facility was less than a
million dollars.

658
00:38:20,816 --> 00:38:28,000
And, and you know, was friends and family
and a couple of VCs that were colleagues

659
00:38:28,000 --> 00:38:28,430
of mine.

660
00:38:28,430 --> 00:38:31,702
was never working on VCs myself, but at
different companies.

661
00:38:31,704 --> 00:38:37,279
who sort of took a flyer on us and proving
that out.

662
00:38:37,279 --> 00:38:41,002
now banks are fighting for our business,
which is great.

663
00:38:41,002 --> 00:38:47,467
And then on the artist side, I love the
music industry.

664
00:38:47,467 --> 00:38:52,611
Universal gave me an opportunity to be in
the studio when some pretty iconic albums

665
00:38:52,611 --> 00:38:53,732
were finished.

666
00:38:53,732 --> 00:38:56,424
had no reason, no business being there.

667
00:38:56,424 --> 00:39:01,831
I'm not entitled to be, I sort of was,
had, by the way, contributed nothing.

668
00:39:01,831 --> 00:39:04,853
to the art there.

669
00:39:04,853 --> 00:39:09,838
you see how special all that is.

670
00:39:09,838 --> 00:39:11,560
So that's the great thing about the music
industry.

671
00:39:11,560 --> 00:39:16,624
The bad thing about the music industry is
it's sort of like a junior high cafeteria.

672
00:39:16,624 --> 00:39:18,686
Everyone's wondering what everyone else is
doing.

673
00:39:18,686 --> 00:39:25,232
And until you're a thing, some managers
won't touch you even if your deal is

674
00:39:25,232 --> 00:39:27,084
better.

675
00:39:27,084 --> 00:39:30,597
That's been a challenge for us that we're
slowly, I don't think we're even halfway

676
00:39:30,597 --> 00:39:31,598
to sort of dispelling.

677
00:39:31,598 --> 00:39:34,640
I don't think we're still the name that we
can be.

678
00:39:34,640 --> 00:39:38,023
I think doing some of those bigger deals I
talked about and publicizing them, you'll

679
00:39:38,023 --> 00:39:41,946
start to see that will help with that.

680
00:39:41,946 --> 00:39:46,340
yeah, I think just sort of breaking
through that sort of, there's a bit of a

681
00:39:46,340 --> 00:39:50,954
sheep mentality in the music industry
because, know, manager's number one job is

682
00:39:50,954 --> 00:39:52,775
not to be fired by their artists, right?

683
00:39:52,775 --> 00:39:56,598
And so they take a little risk averse.

684
00:39:56,598 --> 00:39:59,706
And so that's the other challenge for

685
00:39:59,706 --> 00:40:02,906
You know, I'm surprised the major label
didn't come in, maybe Universal or

686
00:40:02,906 --> 00:40:05,386
somebody, one of the top three.

687
00:40:05,446 --> 00:40:07,046
Say, hey, knock on your door.

688
00:40:07,046 --> 00:40:08,026
Say, Peter, you know what?

689
00:40:08,026 --> 00:40:11,846
You're doing what we're doing way much
better and more efficient and you're

690
00:40:11,846 --> 00:40:13,666
saving money and you're making money.

691
00:40:13,666 --> 00:40:16,946
We want you to come and run our major
label.

692
00:40:17,146 --> 00:40:18,926
He's $10 million a year.

693
00:40:18,926 --> 00:40:21,706
Come and run the Did you get an offer?

694
00:40:21,706 --> 00:40:23,446
Did you get an offer like this?

695
00:40:23,446 --> 00:40:24,267
No, no, no, no.

696
00:40:24,267 --> 00:40:29,698
Part, you sound like my father.

697
00:40:33,334 --> 00:40:37,487
I would not be qualified to run the
smallest sub -label at Universal.

698
00:40:37,487 --> 00:40:41,840
In other words, it's important to know
what you're good at and you're not good

699
00:40:41,840 --> 00:40:42,621
at.

700
00:40:42,621 --> 00:40:43,341
I

701
00:40:43,482 --> 00:40:48,642
Well, you find the flaws of what they've
done wrong and you created something and

702
00:40:48,642 --> 00:40:50,142
you've done 1200 deals, my friend.

703
00:40:50,142 --> 00:40:52,501
This is something to, you

704
00:40:52,501 --> 00:41:00,547
mean, yeah, but part of the power of what
we do is we focus on one thing and then we

705
00:41:00,547 --> 00:41:03,309
let other people take care of the rest and
let the artist choose.

706
00:41:03,309 --> 00:41:06,510
Like, labels are signed up for a lot of
those other things.

707
00:41:06,510 --> 00:41:10,538
Well, the guy at Universal, he was
laughing at you and you said, check.

708
00:41:10,538 --> 00:41:13,284
And that was, they're in the same
business.

709
00:41:13,284 --> 00:41:15,909
You said it, you gave him the S and he
laughed.

710
00:41:15,909 --> 00:41:17,291
And he says, yes.

711
00:41:17,506 --> 00:41:21,036
yeah, well, you know, he's a very good
guy, by the way.

712
00:41:21,036 --> 00:41:25,388
Yeah, no, not saying but he actually, you
know, and you went and did what they're

713
00:41:25,388 --> 00:41:26,179
Yeah, yeah.

714
00:41:26,179 --> 00:41:30,161
Well, we're doing a subset of what they're
doing, right?

715
00:41:33,284 --> 00:41:43,561
yeah, in my dream, if we're massively
successful and our goal is to become the

716
00:41:43,561 --> 00:41:48,494
number one funder in the music industry,
literally bigger than the major labels,

717
00:41:48,494 --> 00:41:49,574
and we'll see.

718
00:41:50,255 --> 00:41:54,775
But yeah, but in that world,

719
00:41:54,775 --> 00:42:04,056
the major labels still are promoting and
serving a certain kind of artist and

720
00:42:04,056 --> 00:42:06,680
frankly deserve to be paid for that.

721
00:42:06,680 --> 00:42:08,672
Like that's valuable work, right?

722
00:42:08,672 --> 00:42:11,586
But it's not the whole thing.

723
00:42:11,586 --> 00:42:13,338
So,

724
00:42:13,338 --> 00:42:17,318
Peter, how do you find time for something
you're very passionate about, which is

725
00:42:17,318 --> 00:42:18,058
charity?

726
00:42:18,058 --> 00:42:21,638
And I'm sure your business takes about 90
% of your time.

727
00:42:22,218 --> 00:42:26,618
You and I know you need to balance between
that, family and kids, and charity.

728
00:42:27,443 --> 00:42:31,176
So the honest answer is much less than I
used to.

729
00:42:31,176 --> 00:42:37,351
But hopefully, we can make enough money
that maybe that changes.

730
00:42:37,351 --> 00:42:39,653
But right now, we're in the belly of the
beast.

731
00:42:39,653 --> 00:42:44,277
But you can't do everything all the time.

732
00:42:44,277 --> 00:42:45,188
You just burn out.

733
00:42:45,188 --> 00:42:50,496
So even if you're switching from one kind
of work to another, it can be

734
00:42:50,496 --> 00:42:53,347
recharging in some way.

735
00:42:53,347 --> 00:42:57,228
You know, my wife would tell me you and
she'd be right that I'm just pretty

736
00:42:57,228 --> 00:43:02,769
terrible at living a balanced life.

737
00:43:02,769 --> 00:43:07,441
But, you know, pretty much, you know, a
couple of times a year I try and, you go

738
00:43:07,441 --> 00:43:12,872
to an event and write a check and also
maybe pitch in and actually do some work

739
00:43:12,872 --> 00:43:18,194
for charity now and again, rather than
just, you know, go to a dinner with a

740
00:43:18,194 --> 00:43:19,813
plate.

741
00:43:21,431 --> 00:43:26,573
Other than that, you know, I work and I
take my kids places.

742
00:43:26,754 --> 00:43:30,896
And if I'm lucky, I might work out three
days a week, but it's usually, let's be

743
00:43:30,896 --> 00:43:33,297
honest, more like two.

744
00:43:33,297 --> 00:43:34,798
And that's about it.

745
00:43:34,798 --> 00:43:38,330
My life is highly unbalanced.

746
00:43:38,330 --> 00:43:42,062
know, beef bread is almost the whole thing
right now.

747
00:43:42,190 --> 00:43:45,151
You know, it's definitely, it's been a
great interview.

748
00:43:45,151 --> 00:43:46,691
Two more questions.

749
00:43:46,751 --> 00:43:51,053
And one, a lot of our listeners and
viewers, when they watch this episode on

750
00:43:51,053 --> 00:43:55,964
Soundbreaker, they're gonna be inspired by
your story and the way you carved your

751
00:43:55,964 --> 00:44:02,376
path into the music business and
innovating into something new, but in the

752
00:44:02,376 --> 00:44:03,296
music business.

753
00:44:03,296 --> 00:44:07,467
And actually, more of a positive way to
help and empower artists and give them

754
00:44:07,467 --> 00:44:08,378
more freedom.

755
00:44:08,378 --> 00:44:09,526
What is...

756
00:44:09,526 --> 00:44:14,573
your advice for somebody who wants to kind
of carve their own path into the music

757
00:44:14,573 --> 00:44:17,986
business and do their own thing or follow
your footsteps,

758
00:44:17,986 --> 00:44:25,978
Yeah, I mean, it's hard to give, like, I'm
not a believer, like, in one particular

759
00:44:25,978 --> 00:44:31,990
floss, like, do this thing, because
everything is a question of degree and

760
00:44:31,990 --> 00:44:32,940
pragmatism.

761
00:44:32,940 --> 00:44:38,852
But I think for me in my career, and
hopefully I get better and better at it,

762
00:44:38,852 --> 00:44:44,673
is figuring out when to listen and when
not to.

763
00:44:45,053 --> 00:44:45,554
Right?

764
00:44:45,554 --> 00:44:47,802
Like, I...

765
00:44:47,802 --> 00:44:51,564
If I go back to sort of graduating from
college and then McKinsey and then

766
00:44:51,564 --> 00:44:57,517
Provide, like, I at that stage in my
career, I just had to listen and learn

767
00:44:57,517 --> 00:45:02,000
because there are people that were good at
things that I had no idea how to do.

768
00:45:02,000 --> 00:45:06,532
And I just started to follow, right?

769
00:45:06,532 --> 00:45:10,104
There gets to be a point, and for some
people it's faster than others.

770
00:45:10,104 --> 00:45:14,997
I am way older than your average founder.

771
00:45:14,997 --> 00:45:17,174
There gets to be a moment where

772
00:45:17,174 --> 00:45:21,066
It's not that you don't listen to anyone,
you still need to listen, but there are

773
00:45:21,066 --> 00:45:25,898
certain things that you just sort of say,
nah, that's wrong.

774
00:45:25,898 --> 00:45:31,340
The conventional wisdom is X, but X is
wrong for these reasons, right?

775
00:45:31,340 --> 00:45:36,813
And it's an acquired skill and you'll
never always be right about that, but I

776
00:45:36,813 --> 00:45:43,906
think some people have developed over time
a little bit of a skill at more often than

777
00:45:43,906 --> 00:45:44,736
not.

778
00:45:45,382 --> 00:45:49,674
when the conventional wisdom or the
conventional approach just doesn't make

779
00:45:49,674 --> 00:45:51,545
any sense, right?

780
00:45:52,145 --> 00:45:59,078
And I can't be more specific than that,
but I think that's really the art.

781
00:45:59,078 --> 00:46:02,290
I think that's the art of being an
entrepreneur is knowing when to do it and

782
00:46:02,290 --> 00:46:03,550
knowing when not to.

783
00:46:03,788 --> 00:46:05,780
Yes.

784
00:46:05,780 --> 00:46:09,263
Anything to be on the lookout for for
BeatBread that you guys are to release

785
00:46:09,263 --> 00:46:13,307
this summer or we are in the middle of the
summer or this year for our listeners,

786
00:46:13,307 --> 00:46:16,952
viewers and artists and people that who
wants to join your platform.

787
00:46:16,952 --> 00:46:19,814
Thank you for asking that question.

788
00:46:20,675 --> 00:46:24,759
yes, so actually about a week and half
ago, and we were still in the midst of

789
00:46:24,759 --> 00:46:28,672
trying to publicize it more, we launched
what's called the Beep Red funding

790
00:46:28,672 --> 00:46:29,702
network.

791
00:46:29,723 --> 00:46:36,529
So we provide capital using our algorithm
and we always have and always will.

792
00:46:36,529 --> 00:46:43,084
What we are about, however, is providing
empowerment and choice to artists.

793
00:46:43,372 --> 00:46:46,403
And we know that there are other funding
sources out there.

794
00:46:47,044 --> 00:46:48,684
We are really good at predictions.

795
00:46:48,684 --> 00:46:55,668
And what we found is that distributors and
independent labels and increasingly some

796
00:46:55,668 --> 00:47:02,461
deep pocketed investors want to co -invest
with us using our data science and they

797
00:47:02,461 --> 00:47:08,073
will pay a premium from what we would pay
if it was just our money alone.

798
00:47:08,073 --> 00:47:09,893
And

799
00:47:10,062 --> 00:47:17,342
Artists can now come to BeepRed and if
they qualify and artists in advance is

800
00:47:17,342 --> 00:47:22,642
going to be above 30 or $50 ,000, it's
more likely not the artists will qualify.

801
00:47:22,722 --> 00:47:27,442
They can stay on their own distributor,
their own set of partners, and they can

802
00:47:27,442 --> 00:47:33,822
get X and they may be to get more X if an
external financial investor wants, or you

803
00:47:33,822 --> 00:47:36,962
can have a choice of offers from a series
of independent labels and distributors

804
00:47:36,962 --> 00:47:38,482
where we're investing.

805
00:47:39,064 --> 00:47:43,386
they're also investing and the artist gets
even more than what we would otherwise

806
00:47:43,386 --> 00:47:44,877
invest.

807
00:47:44,877 --> 00:47:46,888
And it's all up to the artist.

808
00:47:46,888 --> 00:47:50,320
We never force an artist to go to this
distributor or that label.

809
00:47:50,821 --> 00:47:56,374
What we found is some artists will choose
to switch a distributor, but they won't go

810
00:47:56,374 --> 00:47:59,906
for the one that's offering the most money
because they believe in those services and

811
00:47:59,906 --> 00:48:00,626
everything like this.

812
00:48:00,626 --> 00:48:05,849
And we really lay that out for them in a
digital experience and lay out all the

813
00:48:05,849 --> 00:48:08,300
trade -offs, all the choices and let them
model

814
00:48:08,748 --> 00:48:13,942
And we're really, really excited about
this because it is.

815
00:48:13,942 --> 00:48:15,263
Yes.

816
00:48:18,586 --> 00:48:19,526
Yes.

817
00:48:20,728 --> 00:48:24,971
Bebread .com and then hear your
information and then we'll walk you

818
00:48:24,971 --> 00:48:25,532
through process.

819
00:48:25,532 --> 00:48:29,535
And if you qualify, there'll be
opportunities to see not just one offer,

820
00:48:29,535 --> 00:48:36,091
but multiple offers and hopefully get the
best deal.

821
00:48:36,091 --> 00:48:38,292
Whether it's our capital or

822
00:48:38,471 --> 00:48:45,154
I have to say, you know, what an amazing,
inspiring story and insightful information

823
00:48:45,154 --> 00:48:46,775
on BeepRaid and the music business.

824
00:48:46,775 --> 00:48:50,706
I'm sure a lot of our listeners and
viewers, the Soundbreaker artists and all

825
00:48:50,706 --> 00:48:54,658
of that, they will find this extremely
informative and helpful.

826
00:48:54,658 --> 00:48:56,149
I want to thank you for joining us today.

827
00:48:56,149 --> 00:48:59,090
And this concludes today's episode of
Soundbreaker.

828
00:48:59,090 --> 00:49:03,462
Please make sure to follow us on socials
and stay tuned to new episodes.

829
00:49:03,462 --> 00:49:04,832
See you and thank you.

830
00:49:04,962 --> 00:49:08,830
Thank