135 00:11:33.520 --> 00:11:41.659 Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: I am thrilled to welcome 2 incredible guests. From Nea Bpd's lived Experience Committee. 136 00:11:41.850 --> 00:11:46.430 Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: who bring a wealth of perspective, insight, and heart to this conversation. 137 00:11:46.860 --> 00:11:49.509 Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: First, st we have Sadia Ali 138 00:11:49.640 --> 00:11:57.930 Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: co-chair of the lived Experience Committee and a newly appointed member of Nea Bpd's Board of Directors. 139 00:11:58.310 --> 00:12:03.770 Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Sadia's life perspectives in the forefront of her Bpd advocacy 140 00:12:03.870 --> 00:12:19.579 Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: are really her lived experience, and her work is instrumental in bringing all of this perspective to the forefront. She is the only current board member with lived experience, and she's here today to share her experience and her journey with us. 141 00:12:19.880 --> 00:12:23.860 Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Thank you so much for being here, Sadia, we really appreciate you joining us. 142 00:12:24.420 --> 00:12:26.189 Saadia: Thank you. I'm happy to be here. 143 00:12:27.030 --> 00:12:40.460 Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Thank you so much. And joining Sadia today is Amber Joy Pastechi. She's also a member of the Lived Experience Committee and a dedicated advocate for individuals navigating the challenges of Bpd. 144 00:12:40.800 --> 00:12:50.859 Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Amber's commitment to this work stems from her personal journey, and she brings a unique voice to today's discussion. Amber, we're so happy to have you here. 145 00:12:50.860 --> 00:12:52.579 Amber Joy Kostecki: I'm happy to be here. Thank you. 146 00:12:53.280 --> 00:12:54.530 Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Absolutely. 147 00:12:55.190 --> 00:12:57.990 Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Let's start with the basics for our audience. 148 00:12:58.320 --> 00:13:06.299 Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Borderline personality disorder is a condition that's often misunderstood and surrounded by stereotypes. 149 00:13:06.560 --> 00:13:09.980 Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: With such a wide range of possible symptoms. 150 00:13:10.190 --> 00:13:13.709 Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: 256 unique combinations. 151 00:13:14.160 --> 00:13:17.300 Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: It's no wonder people struggle to understand it. 152 00:13:18.130 --> 00:13:24.349 Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Sadia, let's start with you. Would you explain Bpd to someone who's hearing about it for the 1st time. 153 00:13:25.650 --> 00:13:37.980 Saadia: Definitely. According to the Dsm. A person can be diagnosed with borderline personality disorder if they have 5 or more of the following 9 symptoms. 154 00:13:38.330 --> 00:13:43.519 Saadia: efforts to avoid abandonment, unstable and intense relationships. 155 00:13:43.880 --> 00:13:49.860 Saadia: unstable self-image, self-injurious behaviors, like cutting 156 00:13:49.980 --> 00:13:58.689 Saadia: impulsivity in 2 or more areas, like spending money or gambling substance, abuse reckless, driving. 157 00:13:59.050 --> 00:14:07.819 Saadia: unstable mood, feelings of emptiness, intense anger, and paranoia, or disassociation. 158 00:14:08.120 --> 00:14:22.939 Saadia: So I can't do the math for you here on the spot. But given the diagnostic parameters. There are 256 combinations of these symptoms that can all be diagnosed as Bpd. 159 00:14:25.490 --> 00:14:26.660 Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: That's incredible. 160 00:14:28.760 --> 00:14:38.540 Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Amber. What is it that you think are some of the key characteristics or traits that stand out in Bpd? Or have they shown up in your life. 161 00:14:39.746 --> 00:14:41.530 Amber Joy Kostecki: Yeah. Well, one of the 162 00:14:41.960 --> 00:14:45.089 Amber Joy Kostecki: one of the things about it is that it's a 163 00:14:45.190 --> 00:14:51.550 Amber Joy Kostecki: disorder that has to do with other people, and not a lot of people describe it this way. But 164 00:14:52.280 --> 00:15:00.640 Amber Joy Kostecki: it has to do with other people and our relationships with them. So it does get really complicated. And yeah, I've dealt with in my own life, for sure. 165 00:15:03.270 --> 00:15:03.815 Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Absolutely. 166 00:15:04.540 --> 00:15:15.019 Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: I myself have been diagnosed with borderline, and I feel like this is an excellent opportunity for us to have great conversations about. 167 00:15:15.170 --> 00:15:25.400 Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: You know how fascinating this is because, as someone who's been diagnosed, I can relate so much of what you've said, that fear of abandonment. 168 00:15:25.670 --> 00:15:35.260 Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: It's such a core part of my own experience. I remember moments where even small changes in relationships felt like the end of the world. 169 00:15:35.410 --> 00:15:38.109 Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: It's something I'm still learning to navigate. 170 00:15:39.610 --> 00:16:09.239 Saadia: Fear of abandonment is definitely a common thread with people experiencing Bpd. And sometimes people confuse that with a disorganized attachment style which I happen to have, but you can have Bpd. And an anxious attachment style and avoidant attachment style. I'm not sure you can have it with the secure attachment style, but these are separate things it is. It is a good 171 00:16:09.320 --> 00:16:19.600 Saadia: thing to know about your attachment style. If you're trying to kind of work through your symptoms so like the crash course on that 172 00:16:19.690 --> 00:16:46.329 Saadia: is anxious attachment. This is an oversimplification, but it happens when you're enmeshed with your primary caregiver when you're young, and it shows up essentially with you, being super clingy. So people with Bpd. Who have anxious attachment, their attempts to avoid abandonment might be a little more straightforward, such as saying things like, Don't leave me. Do you still love me? 173 00:16:46.470 --> 00:16:49.700 Saadia: Are you mad at me, or things like that? 174 00:16:49.940 --> 00:16:58.880 Saadia: Avoidant attachment, on the other hand, arises usually when you are neglected by your primary caregiver. 175 00:16:58.950 --> 00:17:26.279 Saadia: and it shows up in adulthood as you, not really wanting to form attachments at all. So with the fear of abandonment, can can arise with Bpd. With someone who has avoid an attachment by cutting people off really quickly and really easily sort of in a you can't fire me. I quit type of way. So that's another way that you can see it and disorganized attachment. It's 176 00:17:26.410 --> 00:17:31.529 Saadia: somewhere in between the 2. It has some elements of both. And it it happens when you. 177 00:17:32.910 --> 00:17:41.879 Saadia: when you really want to be connected to someone. But you're afraid of that person, and it arises when you had an unpredictable primary caregiver. 178 00:17:41.990 --> 00:17:55.790 Saadia: and you got mixed messages from them, and it leads to you sending mixed messages in in your adult relationships and fear of abandonment you can very quickly go from. Don't leave me to 179 00:17:56.490 --> 00:18:00.910 Saadia: as like an anxious attachment person would do to 180 00:18:01.240 --> 00:18:08.169 Saadia: you know I'm cutting you off. I'm never gonna talk to you again as someone with avoidant attachment would do so. 181 00:18:08.590 --> 00:18:20.269 Saadia: So the attachment style and the fear of abandonment and Bpd are totally separate paradigms, but they do kind of interact and overlap in an interesting way. 182 00:18:21.370 --> 00:18:24.640 Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Oh, my goodness, that is incredible! That's so much to unpack here. 183 00:18:25.120 --> 00:18:36.719 Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: So I personally can find myself relating to absolutely doing that. The idolation of the you know I can't live without you. Please stay like 184 00:18:36.950 --> 00:18:39.880 Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: there's no life beyond this point. Type thing 185 00:18:40.120 --> 00:18:44.839 Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: to, you know. Also having those moments almost 186 00:18:46.650 --> 00:19:01.170 Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: right next to each other. I I feel like I can say of I don't need you, you know. Get out of here like you're nothing, you know all those things like I'm not gonna let you have this hold on me. All of those things. I can absolutely 187 00:19:01.770 --> 00:19:03.630 Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: really reflect on those. 188 00:19:04.120 --> 00:19:15.860 Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: I have some questions that are a little off script, but you brought up some great points that I feel like are possibilities for talking points. And so I wanted to go into your use of main caregiver. 189 00:19:16.720 --> 00:19:20.570 Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: So when I was 1st diagnosed with Bpd. 190 00:19:22.020 --> 00:19:25.419 Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: there was such a taboo about it. Now. This was 191 00:19:26.500 --> 00:19:32.660 Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: 1510, 15 years ago. I have been living with it for that long. 192 00:19:33.426 --> 00:19:38.359 Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: So my question is, nature versus nurture. 193 00:19:38.510 --> 00:19:54.309 Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: There was a I guess they needed more research they needed to do more research on, if it was like the nature, or if it was the nurture like, if it was the at home childhood, the raising, the disruption of, you know. 194 00:19:54.530 --> 00:20:00.880 Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: safety in the childhood, or something traumatic happening that would rattle somebody to have that type of a 195 00:20:01.160 --> 00:20:07.369 Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: I'm going to use the word mental illness. It's a personality disorder. And so that makes us 196 00:20:07.490 --> 00:20:10.809 Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: more susceptible because of the the 197 00:20:11.130 --> 00:20:25.830 Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: underlying issues at home or nature versus like what they are learned behavior, things that they have, you know, from school interactions from, you know, friends or boyfriends, girlfriends 198 00:20:26.260 --> 00:20:28.510 Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: try to make. I guess this 199 00:20:29.050 --> 00:20:36.370 Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: warped personality disorder. How would you say someone can 200 00:20:37.290 --> 00:20:44.120 Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: like, how how do you even go about saying you have this disorder? How do you go about getting diagnosed. 201 00:20:47.560 --> 00:20:54.149 Saadia: Nature versus versus nurture is definitely a big debate, not just with Bpd. And and 202 00:20:54.620 --> 00:20:58.397 Saadia: mental illness, but in in all sorts of 203 00:20:59.670 --> 00:21:18.249 Saadia: all sorts of different places, I will say for Bpd. When some people are so there's no agreement on it, just like there's no agreement in general about nature and nurture. And what percentage is dominant but with with 204 00:21:18.900 --> 00:21:28.849 Saadia: people who have Bpd are oftentimes more perceptive and more sensitive. So if you've ever heard of a microexpression 205 00:21:29.300 --> 00:21:41.770 Saadia: when you know people with Bpd can pick up on those things and feel, you know, you know they they feel they have a reaction to it, whereas some other people 206 00:21:42.450 --> 00:21:56.770 Saadia: might not be tuned into that. And that's fine. That's a different kind of person. But what that means is that someone with the predisposition towards Bpd could be traumatized by something that is not traumatic for someone who 207 00:21:56.770 --> 00:22:17.849 Saadia: isn't emotionally in tune with the people around them. So, for example, a parent seeming to reject them by not being interested in their report card or their art project, or something else to a very sensitive little kid. They could experience that, as you know, a lowercase t trauma. 208 00:22:17.850 --> 00:22:43.410 Saadia: and that could put them on a path, because once you get traumatized it's easier to be traumatized again, because when you're a kid and you get rejected by your parents, it feels like it feels very scary, whereas another kid might hand over their report card and the parent might not have a reaction, or they might win their sports game, and the parent might not have a reaction, and the kid might not even notice. 209 00:22:43.410 --> 00:23:01.450 Saadia: So I think that's really important to be aware of when you're thinking about the origins of Bpd is that we're generally more sensitive people. And that means that when we're young we can be a lot more affected by the same things that neurotypical people 210 00:23:01.480 --> 00:23:02.840 Saadia: aren't phased by. 211 00:23:03.970 --> 00:23:06.889 Amber Joy Kostecki: I can talk a little bit about that, too, actually. 212 00:23:06.890 --> 00:23:07.570 Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Sure please. 213 00:23:07.780 --> 00:23:21.200 Amber Joy Kostecki: So I believe I got my borderline because of trauma. But I have 3 daughters and my middle daughter. She's 19. She also has borderline, but she got it through genetics. 214 00:23:22.640 --> 00:23:23.999 Amber Joy Kostecki: Yeah, it makes it. 215 00:23:24.000 --> 00:23:36.249 Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: That was actually going to be my next question. If you felt there was any statistics at all, if it was hereditary, or if it was, you know, based on and like a disruption in the livelihood. 216 00:23:38.630 --> 00:23:44.550 Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Is there any statistics, you, or any information at all that we have on that like? Is it. 217 00:23:45.410 --> 00:23:51.550 Amber Joy Kostecki: I don't know. I don't know at the moment I might have seen it before, but I don't remember. 218 00:23:52.556 --> 00:23:54.289 Saadia: Still out on that one. 219 00:23:55.030 --> 00:23:59.230 Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Perfect. Yeah, let's some very good information, because 220 00:23:59.770 --> 00:24:03.109 Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: I'm curious about that one. I do wonder if 221 00:24:04.260 --> 00:24:07.789 Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: it is genetic, you know. Like, if if we got it from 222 00:24:08.400 --> 00:24:13.660 Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: our parents, you know, just for say, and then, if there was a traumatic 223 00:24:14.010 --> 00:24:19.730 Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: something that happened at the home because of the parents having. Bpd, you know that just 224 00:24:20.870 --> 00:24:22.649 Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: distilled it into the children. 225 00:24:23.760 --> 00:24:31.069 Amber Joy Kostecki: Happen. But also we tend to, or people with borderline tend to have one parent that is like narcissistic. 226 00:24:34.310 --> 00:24:36.169 Amber Joy Kostecki: That's how my mom was. So. 227 00:24:37.940 --> 00:24:46.979 Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: I can absolutely understand that. Yeah. My childhood was very tumultuous. I am. 228 00:24:48.070 --> 00:24:53.110 Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: My mother was murdered when I was a year old. 229 00:24:54.510 --> 00:24:57.530 Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: The story says that I was there, and 230 00:24:58.310 --> 00:24:59.830 Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: it was in front of me. 231 00:25:00.090 --> 00:25:03.000 Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: And then, you know, that was 232 00:25:03.340 --> 00:25:13.429 Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: this year actually next week, December the 28th is going to be her 37 year anniversary 233 00:25:14.306 --> 00:25:19.140 Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: of her death day. And so, after you know. 234 00:25:19.280 --> 00:25:30.819 Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: my mom was killed that way, it was considered a passion crime. She was beat to death for disclosure. So that was, you know, what they considered somebody very close. 235 00:25:31.360 --> 00:25:32.610 Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: and it's 236 00:25:32.750 --> 00:25:40.484 Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: unsolved still, to this day. So with all of that chaos of not having that nurturing parent 237 00:25:41.180 --> 00:25:46.869 Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: also the way that she was taken, all of the things that happened with that, you know. My family was 238 00:25:47.760 --> 00:25:52.060 Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: very back and forth with each other, my mom's side against my dad's side. 239 00:25:52.843 --> 00:25:56.560 Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: It was really hard until I was about 12, 240 00:25:56.680 --> 00:26:03.999 Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: and then, you know, even more things happened that took me away from my mom's side of the family, and 241 00:26:04.190 --> 00:26:07.017 Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: I didn't see them for years and years, and then 242 00:26:07.510 --> 00:26:12.090 Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: You know my my home bringing was not 243 00:26:12.400 --> 00:26:17.980 Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: awful, but it definitely. You know, there could have been better things about it for sure. 244 00:26:18.480 --> 00:26:25.739 Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Maybe a little bit more empathy and grace, of course, for sure, some therapy. But I do think that all of that 245 00:26:26.130 --> 00:26:33.380 Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: has 100% to do with. You know all of the things that I've been diagnosed with. 246 00:26:34.670 --> 00:26:40.310 Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: But I do believe that that's that fear of abandonment is understanding that you know 247 00:26:40.530 --> 00:26:46.419 Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: the least permeates in life. And just you, you get that one little grain of. 248 00:26:46.740 --> 00:26:50.839 Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: I guess, empathy, or what you think is kindness and love 249 00:26:52.350 --> 00:26:54.169 Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: and then it turns out to 250 00:26:54.430 --> 00:27:03.239 Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: maybe not be that way. And then it's like, Oh, my God! I can't live without it, even if it's not what I think it is like. I just want to live with the idea of it. I don't want to be alone. 251 00:27:03.480 --> 00:27:12.960 Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: That was something that I really had to deal with was the the getting out of that mind frame of. There's no life beyond this point. 252 00:27:13.504 --> 00:27:16.960 Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: So I think that I'd like to talk about 253 00:27:17.110 --> 00:27:22.000 Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: the sheer number of myths and stereotypes that surround Bpd. 254 00:27:22.400 --> 00:27:28.439 Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: So idea in your advocacy work. What are some of the most harmful stereotypes that you've encountered. 255 00:27:29.870 --> 00:27:36.320 Saadia: Well, 1st of all, I'm really sorry to hear about your mom. That is terrible, and 256 00:27:38.980 --> 00:27:41.459 Saadia: there are really no no words for it. 257 00:27:41.460 --> 00:27:55.280 Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Thank you. That's that's my a little bit of my testimony. Why, we started change the face of depression. You know, understanding what depression can do, and grief and all of those things. And I wanted to 258 00:27:55.880 --> 00:28:00.229 Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: make an impact in a better way than the world impacted me. 259 00:28:00.430 --> 00:28:10.320 Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: And so I realized that I could either be absolutely down in life and really 260 00:28:10.880 --> 00:28:16.550 Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: feel the heaviness of this conversation, or 261 00:28:16.670 --> 00:28:24.730 Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: I could see what a destruction this heaviness is, and how it has affected everybody close to me and my family. 262 00:28:24.950 --> 00:28:26.049 Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: and do better. 263 00:28:26.820 --> 00:28:27.880 Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: And so 264 00:28:28.790 --> 00:28:36.160 Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: that's why we are having a conversation like this today. Thank you very much for your empathy. I appreciate that. 265 00:28:37.860 --> 00:28:42.989 Saadia: Yeah, I I also identify as a cycle breaker. 266 00:28:43.230 --> 00:28:49.780 Saadia: And we need more people like that. So good for you. Keep up. 267 00:28:50.290 --> 00:28:53.559 Saadia: Keep on keeping on on the journey. 268 00:28:53.770 --> 00:29:19.289 Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Thank you. Well, I love you and your advocacy, like you are also diagnosed with Bpd, and you're going to be on the board. So you know what are some of those things that you find your own self having to, I guess, combat, you know, and and like, get a grasp on what those stereotypes are, I know just one talking point is therapy. 269 00:29:19.430 --> 00:29:25.719 Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: I went to several different therapists for years, and you know, given 270 00:29:26.070 --> 00:29:28.940 Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: the fact that I have. Bpd, and what those 271 00:29:29.320 --> 00:29:33.450 Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: side effects or characteristics look like. I had a lot of 272 00:29:34.020 --> 00:29:41.600 Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: just flat out therapists that refuse to work with me, and so with your work and your advocacy, especially what you do with the 273 00:29:41.890 --> 00:29:46.039 Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Nea Bpd. And all of their resources. How is this? 274 00:29:46.570 --> 00:29:53.299 Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: A a great light for us like, how can you help dispel some of those stereotypes. 275 00:29:55.240 --> 00:30:04.200 Saadia: Well, the the 1st one that I would like to focus on is the stereotype of people with Bpd. As 276 00:30:04.590 --> 00:30:32.749 Saadia: externalizing their emotions, so yelling at people or making a scene in some other way, and this has very much not been the case in my life. I mean most of the time everyone has their their moments, but for me, when I got upset I would almost always internalize my feelings and appear calm on the outside, but be shut down and 277 00:30:32.750 --> 00:30:58.119 Saadia: stop talking, and on the inside I would ruminate until I was alone, and I would have really, really intense feelings. That wouldn't be, you know, visible just from looking at me, and when I when I when I was alone, that's when I would kind of act on my feelings, and I would usually hurt myself by cutting myself or scratching myself, or 278 00:30:58.340 --> 00:31:05.680 Saadia: you know, other other techniques. And so it it sucks to be stereotyped as someone 279 00:31:05.850 --> 00:31:09.009 Saadia: who makes their feelings other people's problem 280 00:31:09.520 --> 00:31:22.720 Saadia: when I dealt with so much of it alone for so long, and I endured so much, emotionally and physically from trying not to make my feelings someone else's problem. 281 00:31:22.830 --> 00:31:46.629 Saadia: I'm sure you can find an ex-boyfriend here or there who would disagree with this, but I can only speak my truth, and I know a lot of other people who have what some people call quiet Bpd. And they internalize their their feelings, but they're just as strong, and and they deal with it alone. And the 282 00:31:46.970 --> 00:31:53.659 Saadia: this type of person with quiet Bpd actually has a higher 283 00:31:53.950 --> 00:32:01.090 Saadia: suicide rate, because no one knows that they're suffering, and no one knows how much they're suffering. 284 00:32:01.710 --> 00:32:04.659 Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Yeah, that's incredible that you bring that up. 285 00:32:04.990 --> 00:32:09.720 Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: I absolutely resonate with that I to 286 00:32:10.120 --> 00:32:14.860 Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: feel like I maybe even did a combination of the both. I think it was 287 00:32:15.660 --> 00:32:27.309 Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: when showing emotion. Maybe it was so much built up that had finally combust that that emotion was rage, and it was a lot 288 00:32:27.580 --> 00:32:35.800 Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: very loud, very exaggerated, because well, not even I'm not going to word. No, it wasn't exaggerated. It just came to a head. 289 00:32:35.920 --> 00:32:42.569 Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: and maybe the reaction wasn't warranted to be that 290 00:32:42.800 --> 00:32:49.550 Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: loud, but the combination of all of it combusting turned out to be that loud 291 00:32:50.089 --> 00:32:53.279 Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: and then, you know, I would go into a shame 292 00:32:54.008 --> 00:33:02.979 Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: embarrassment, you know, and then, of course, having to grovel for you know, apologizing for my actions and the way that I handled things. 293 00:33:03.230 --> 00:33:09.700 Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: and then either doing it silently, like you were speaking of of internalizing it. 294 00:33:11.250 --> 00:33:19.960 Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: And then also, you know, a combination of both doing it out loud and internalizing it while also cutting. 295 00:33:20.210 --> 00:33:24.450 Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: I never cut to kill. 296 00:33:25.280 --> 00:33:32.300 Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: I always cut to feel or just try to 297 00:33:35.740 --> 00:33:40.649 Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: get my mind off of it to what is that word distract? 298 00:33:42.550 --> 00:33:44.760 Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Yeah. How about you, Amber? 299 00:33:44.930 --> 00:33:51.680 Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Do you have any stereotypes that you've had to confront? Or how did you push a back back against any of those. 300 00:33:52.585 --> 00:33:56.230 Amber Joy Kostecki: Well, I don't think there's any stereotypes. But 301 00:33:57.080 --> 00:34:00.289 Amber Joy Kostecki: wait! What did you ask, Sadia, before? Sorry. 302 00:34:00.860 --> 00:34:01.250 Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: No, that's. 303 00:34:01.250 --> 00:34:02.139 Saadia: The same thing. 304 00:34:02.140 --> 00:34:03.090 Amber Joy Kostecki: Oh, okay. 305 00:34:03.843 --> 00:34:11.379 Amber Joy Kostecki: well, for me, I don't have quiet. Bpd, I've never been. That's the one symptom I've never 306 00:34:11.960 --> 00:34:14.009 Amber Joy Kostecki: dealt with was self harm. 307 00:34:14.130 --> 00:34:18.519 Amber Joy Kostecki: Besides, in like other ways, like self-sabotage and stuff like that. 308 00:34:18.520 --> 00:34:18.940 Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Indeed. 309 00:34:18.949 --> 00:34:25.659 Amber Joy Kostecki: In relationships and jobs and stuff like that. But yeah, so I've never really had the self-harm. And I've always. 310 00:34:25.819 --> 00:34:30.579 Amber Joy Kostecki: I think I think I feel like there's a combination of you know. 311 00:34:30.699 --> 00:34:39.309 Amber Joy Kostecki: alone, and feeling like crap by myself and being loud with people, you know, when I needed, when I felt like I needed to. 312 00:34:40.639 --> 00:34:41.779 Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Absolutely. 313 00:34:43.130 --> 00:34:43.840 Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Yeah. 314 00:34:45.969 --> 00:34:52.860 Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Well, another thing, I'd love to get your thoughts on. So I was doing some research about Bpd 315 00:34:53.100 --> 00:34:59.419 Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: for my own self, just to educate my my own self. I really love to hear what people say. 316 00:34:59.570 --> 00:35:06.429 Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: as far as therapists and medical. You know, educators anything like that, because 317 00:35:07.020 --> 00:35:10.979 Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: when I was 1st diagnosed. I was institutionalized. 318 00:35:11.636 --> 00:35:15.449 Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: I was in the inpatient for 12 days. 319 00:35:15.700 --> 00:35:21.790 Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: and I was very angry at my diagnosis. It made sense. 320 00:35:22.390 --> 00:35:27.419 Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: It it made total sense. I could accept it. I could 321 00:35:28.070 --> 00:35:32.830 Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: like the all the chat I was like, yeah, I got all, all of them. I got everyone 322 00:35:33.513 --> 00:35:50.010 Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: and I was mad because I felt like it wasn't fair. I felt like I have a right to feel this way like like look at me like, look at my life like I am angry. And this is, you know what it's called, basically. And I just wanted to be. 323 00:35:52.050 --> 00:36:00.020 Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: I don't want to use the word accepted. But I I just wanted to feel heard. I wanted to have somebody say, Okay, well, that makes sense. 324 00:36:00.240 --> 00:36:05.370 Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: you know, like one and one equals 2, and I have had. 325 00:36:05.480 --> 00:36:08.160 Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: you know, not great conversations with 326 00:36:08.390 --> 00:36:11.820 Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: therapist about it. It's almost it's a 327 00:36:12.780 --> 00:36:15.840 Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: it's a taboo. It's 1 of those fearful 328 00:36:17.310 --> 00:36:19.970 Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: stamps. I feel like you get put on. 329 00:36:20.080 --> 00:36:23.030 Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: And for the 1st time in 330 00:36:23.670 --> 00:36:28.700 Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: 1415 years of having this diagnosis, I came across a Youtube channel. 331 00:36:29.000 --> 00:36:36.730 Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: And this guy's name is Healthy Gamer Gg. Which is a great tag, and he is. 332 00:36:37.490 --> 00:37:03.440 Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: I believe, a licensed therapist like I should have done even more research on this, but he was talking about borderline like he went into it very, very detailed. It was a lot to to take in, and I I really enjoyed that conversation. He said, that we can go into remission, and within 10 years, with the right support, people can 333 00:37:03.880 --> 00:37:10.780 Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: fully recover from Bpd and have a what you would consider normal, healthy life 334 00:37:10.990 --> 00:37:22.129 Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: not anywhere close to to what it used to be, and you can almost see yourself as a new person right now, reflecting on when you were really Bpd. 335 00:37:22.330 --> 00:37:35.779 Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: and be able to see that difference. How how do you feel on that? Do you feel like that's accurate? Or do you have any idea of remission? Is that something you've seen in your journey, or the stories of others? 336 00:37:36.140 --> 00:37:41.709 Amber Joy Kostecki: Yeah, I can talk about this one. Yeah, I feel like I'm in remission right now. 337 00:37:41.890 --> 00:37:50.019 Amber Joy Kostecki: because I was diagnosed in 2016 when I was 36 years old, and I had never heard of borderline before that. 338 00:37:50.370 --> 00:37:58.459 Amber Joy Kostecki: And so I've done. I've been doing constant research, you know, since then. But yeah, it can go into remission. But 339 00:37:58.650 --> 00:38:12.119 Amber Joy Kostecki: but what people forget is that it can come back at any moment, no matter what, even if it's 10 years you've been in remission. It can come back right away without you even realizing it. 340 00:38:12.520 --> 00:38:14.679 Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Yeah, like a trigger. 341 00:38:15.350 --> 00:38:21.859 Amber Joy Kostecki: Well, just it could be. It could be an external thing, and it could be an internal thing. It's always like different. 342 00:38:23.170 --> 00:38:44.780 Saadia: It's cortisol. So I'm no scientist. But what happens is the flood of cortisol into the brain, for again, it could be an external event, or it could be, you know, internal rise in anxiety, and nothing externally actually happened that triggers, the the Bpd. Symptoms so. 343 00:38:47.180 --> 00:38:48.770 Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. 344 00:38:48.980 --> 00:38:57.889 Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: I think it's mental, even like maturity, maybe mental and emotional maturity, like 345 00:38:58.290 --> 00:39:03.030 Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: regulating your emotions or learning how to regulate your emotions. 346 00:39:03.470 --> 00:39:11.179 Saadia: So there! There are statistics that at 25, which is when your prefrontal cortex finishes, developing 347 00:39:11.480 --> 00:39:37.370 Saadia: certain risks like dying by suicide, reduce majorly. For people with Bpd and a lot of people experience significant changes in their quality of life around that time. Again, this is just a general statistic. Some people don't even get their diagnosis by that point. But some people who have a really difficult time when they're younger things, and then, you know, things sometimes 348 00:39:37.590 --> 00:39:43.729 Saadia: change drastically around that time when your your brain finishes cooking. 349 00:39:44.280 --> 00:39:49.819 Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Yeah, yeah, that makes sense. And a lot of life is hopefully lived. By then you're able to. 350 00:39:50.090 --> 00:39:50.910 Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: I guess. 351 00:39:51.770 --> 00:39:53.760 Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Navigate things better. 352 00:39:55.220 --> 00:40:03.709 Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Both of you are incredible advocates, and your work on the Lived Experience Committee is proof of the power of personal stories. 353 00:40:04.280 --> 00:40:13.300 Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: So, yeah, what is the only you're the only current any a Bpd board member with lived experience. That's right. 354 00:40:15.290 --> 00:40:20.069 Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: What does that role mean to you? And how do you hope to create a change. 355 00:40:22.100 --> 00:40:26.900 Saadia: It means that I need to speak up, because if I don't, then 356 00:40:27.020 --> 00:40:33.290 Saadia: the lived experience perspective won't come from anywhere, and it won't be heard and incorporated. 357 00:40:33.610 --> 00:40:51.840 Saadia: It means trusting myself and speaking my truth, regardless of whether I feel validated or invalidated, because I maintain that it's pretty much impossible for a person without Bpd to understand what the experience is like. So you know, there's a high likelihood that I might 358 00:40:52.230 --> 00:41:16.219 Saadia: say some things that don't really land with a group of people who don't have lived experience. And I have to be okay with that, you know. And along those lines it's also about taking care of myself, because there's a lot of emotional labor involved in bringing my lived experience, which has been really really difficult to the table and to use it to make what is at 359 00:41:16.510 --> 00:41:19.580 Saadia: at bottom line a business decision. 360 00:41:19.820 --> 00:41:23.410 Saadia: What I love about this position 361 00:41:23.550 --> 00:41:27.289 Saadia: is that I can contribute something unique 362 00:41:27.410 --> 00:41:36.910 Saadia: to to myself and my experience. You know I could have been on a different nonprofit board, and I chose this one because I 363 00:41:38.120 --> 00:41:51.605 Saadia: I can I my my voice, my voice matters here and my voice there aren't a lot of people who are engaged in this space and able to 364 00:41:52.420 --> 00:42:15.629 Saadia: to contribute in this way. You know you, you're you're super lucky to have Amber here. She's an amazing advocate in this space, and she'll tell you in a second about all the amazing programs that she runs. But you know I didn't meet anyone with this condition until I joined the Lived Experience Committee at Neabpd. So 365 00:42:15.810 --> 00:42:19.959 Saadia: you know, that's that's been a really. 366 00:42:20.280 --> 00:42:47.259 Saadia: it's been a really huge thing, for my development is meeting other people with this condition and seeing how they experience it and how they get through life without spiraling, and they take care of themselves. So if you're listening to this and you have Bpd, I would recommend finding friends finding a community and applying to join the lived Experience Committee, because it it really makes a difference 367 00:42:47.420 --> 00:42:54.120 Saadia: to be able to speak your truth around other people who can actually relate. 368 00:42:55.900 --> 00:42:58.129 Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Yeah, that is fantastic. 369 00:42:58.340 --> 00:43:01.799 Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: That is absolutely fantastic. I'm so happy that you 370 00:43:02.140 --> 00:43:11.680 Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: actually have the diagnosis, and you are out there advocating for us to be able to talk to. Well, frankly, people that don't understand and try to 371 00:43:12.180 --> 00:43:22.390 Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: advocate for us and let them know what it's like, how we would actually reply or respond, and how it does benefit somebody with this type of a personality disorder. 372 00:43:22.620 --> 00:43:27.160 Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: amber. How is sharing your story through advocacy, impacted your journey. 373 00:43:28.079 --> 00:43:31.760 Amber Joy Kostecki: Well, it it completely has impacted my journey, because 374 00:43:32.030 --> 00:43:44.669 Amber Joy Kostecki: so I got diagnosed in 2016, and when I was looking for support there wasn't anything I couldn't find anything. So I decided to start my own nonprofit 375 00:43:44.700 --> 00:44:08.690 Amber Joy Kostecki: organization and dedicated to borderline and to helping people with borderline. And I started running support group meetings right away weekly for people, and a lot of people came as in person then. But it's on zoom now. But yeah, the the meetings help a lot of people, and I advocate for people on a personal level as well. 376 00:44:09.024 --> 00:44:20.669 Amber Joy Kostecki: For many people that call me, and they need help, or they need something researched. I'll do that for them. I'll just do whatever I can to help them at all, and plus I'm also in school. 377 00:44:21.127 --> 00:44:31.139 Amber Joy Kostecki: Right now to get my bachelor's and master's in social work, so I can get licensed and become a therapist and specialize in borderline. 378 00:44:32.040 --> 00:44:53.659 Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Amber. That is fantastic. My next segment was to talk to you guys about resources and thank you for bringing up your support group. I really wanted to ask you, what can you give us an idea of? Of what does a support group look like, for instance, if we were to just log on to something that you were doing. What? What does somebody expect to kind of happen. 379 00:44:54.090 --> 00:45:01.860 Amber Joy Kostecki: Yeah, definitely. Well, so now I've been running them on zoom every week since January. 380 00:45:02.040 --> 00:45:20.840 Amber Joy Kostecki: And so I have like a core group of people that that come. And then there's new people that come. But if somebody were to just log in, you don't have to have your camera on, you don't have to have your your sound on. You don't have to say anything, you know. Maybe just listen. The 1st time or 2. Some people do that 381 00:45:20.840 --> 00:45:32.720 Amber Joy Kostecki: some people just come on and they're they're on but yeah, we'll be talking about either a topic or somebody will be talking about what they're going through recently. And 382 00:45:33.120 --> 00:45:47.169 Amber Joy Kostecki: when you have borderline, it's awesome to talk to other people with borderline, because we all understand what's going on, you know. So that's a really huge plus about support groups. Is that aspect right? There. 383 00:45:49.070 --> 00:45:55.329 Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Oh, yeah, I'm having a blast talking to the 2 of you. Just I feel like you get me. 384 00:45:55.540 --> 00:46:09.080 Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: I don't know. I have such a peace. Having this conversation, I I don't think in the 7 years that I've had change the face of depression. Have I ever opened up about this. And I'm so happy that you guys. 385 00:46:09.220 --> 00:46:12.209 Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: you know, we kind of have something really precious in common. 386 00:46:13.700 --> 00:46:25.810 Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: What other resources are there? So for anyone listening who might have just been diagnosed with Bpd. Or for a loved one that's just trying to understand it. What would you recommend. 387 00:46:27.860 --> 00:46:53.250 Saadia: Yeah. So I have to use this. I have to plug Neabpd. They do have the largest resource library anywhere in the world of resources for people with lived experience and their families so definitely go to their website, it's neabpd.org. And you'll have access to everything. All the programs are free family connections is 388 00:46:53.250 --> 00:47:05.739 Saadia: Nea Bpd's signature program, and that is for people loved ones. So people who have family members or people that they love who have. Bpd, and 389 00:47:05.740 --> 00:47:31.960 Saadia: it's it's a wonderful program, it it makes a huge difference. There is a huge wait list. So I would say definitely, get on the wait list. But my hot tip for for your listeners is that there's another program called Mstr. Managing Suicidality and trauma Recovery. That doesn't have a wait list. And it's about 75% of the same content as family connections. So if you need resources now 390 00:47:32.130 --> 00:47:34.030 Saadia: and your loved one, I would say. 391 00:47:34.720 --> 00:48:01.640 Saadia: sign up for Mstr. Get on the wait list for family connections. One of those 2 things, if you have lived experience, I'm so happy to be able to share some resources with you, because, as Amber mentioned, when I was looking for this sort of stuff, there wasn't anything, and the Lived Experience Committee, which was founded almost 3 years ago. Now I was a founding member has created a couple things. So our first, st 392 00:48:01.720 --> 00:48:05.839 Saadia: your 1st project around 2023 was 393 00:48:06.898 --> 00:48:21.710 Saadia: or 2022 was to create a resource list. So what we did was we went through podcasts, books, websites, workbooks, Youtube channels, even nonprofits, blogs, websites. 394 00:48:21.860 --> 00:48:32.520 Saadia: I think apps. I think we did apps as well to figure out which ones were effective and non stigmatizing was a really big idea. I really big 395 00:48:32.750 --> 00:48:41.570 Saadia: part, and we. We consolidated them into a list, and they're available on Nea's website. 396 00:48:41.710 --> 00:48:48.740 Saadia: And I'll I'll send the link to you so you can put it in the show notes. It's under recovery resources. So there's that 397 00:48:49.070 --> 00:49:16.750 Saadia: those are a little more clinical which are definitely valuable, and our 2024 project has been to have a blog. We've posted about weekly. It's called this borderline life, and there's a link to it. If you just go to neappd.org, and those are voices of people with lived experience. Talking about, you know, different topics, relationships, family. 398 00:49:16.900 --> 00:49:19.049 Saadia: you know, target behaviors. 399 00:49:19.430 --> 00:49:29.779 Saadia: Dbt skills, things of that nature. And you know I would suggest. Go, go, read some of them, and see if you resonate with any of them. There's a a wide range of 400 00:49:29.850 --> 00:49:57.039 Saadia: of topics and styles. So those are. Those are the things that exist now. And in 2025 we're excited to host panel discussions every couple of months. I think we're calling it Chat Bpd, which I find hilarious. So join us. I think the 1st one is at the end of January. So follow any Abpd on social media. We have Facebook, Instagram, Linkedin. 401 00:49:57.040 --> 00:50:00.510 Saadia: and we will post the event flyers there. So. 402 00:50:01.010 --> 00:50:02.880 Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: That is fantastic. 403 00:50:03.350 --> 00:50:07.268 Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Oh, my goodness, yeah, you guys, when I was diagnosed 404 00:50:07.940 --> 00:50:22.159 Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: decade ago, they did not have any any support like this at all. I'm so grateful to be having this conversation with you guys. I am so happy to learn about the lived Experience committee as well. I think I might even try to join. 405 00:50:22.400 --> 00:50:23.640 Saadia: Oh, please! Do! 406 00:50:24.280 --> 00:50:25.780 Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: What type of 407 00:50:25.940 --> 00:50:41.790 Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: like? What can I expect? Will you? Will you give me an insight on like? What? What, what, what does it entail like, what all do you guys get together weekly? Do we have, you know, conversations? What type of of atmosphere is it like. 408 00:50:42.860 --> 00:50:47.610 Saadia: We get together once a month and we are working on projects. So it's very structured. 409 00:50:48.433 --> 00:50:54.566 Saadia: It's not a social club, although we do you know? Get to know each other and 410 00:50:55.310 --> 00:50:57.449 Saadia: some people make friendships. 411 00:50:57.710 --> 00:51:21.870 Saadia: And if you're if you're interested in getting involved, you can email me. My email address is Saad, that's my 1st name@neabpd.org. So if you're interested in producing some of the resources and working with other people who have lived experience. Please please join us. 412 00:51:24.170 --> 00:51:28.599 Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Beautiful. What type of projects are you working on. 413 00:51:29.010 --> 00:51:46.479 Saadia: So I mentioned the resource list. We also did a social media campaign for the month of May, where we posted something every day on Nea's social media, and then we have the blog, and our coming project is the panels. 414 00:51:49.120 --> 00:51:55.730 Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: That's so exciting. Alright, yeah, I'll definitely be getting in touch with you guys. This is something I'd love to hear more about. 415 00:51:57.050 --> 00:51:57.370 Saadia: Great. 416 00:51:57.370 --> 00:52:15.649 Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Amber. I'd love to talk to you a little bit about your advocacy. What are some areas of hope that you could leave with us. Do you have anything you'd maybe love to speak on and and share some experiences that you've seen like just evolve and get better from the resources. 417 00:52:16.430 --> 00:52:19.190 Amber Joy Kostecki: Yeah, for sure. So 418 00:52:19.950 --> 00:52:37.890 Amber Joy Kostecki: the way I've been healing, I have my own things that I do, besides therapy and meds and all that stuff. But I think that one thing that really does work really really works is volunteering. 419 00:52:38.240 --> 00:52:52.840 Amber Joy Kostecki: volunteering will help the other person. It will help you. It helps everybody. It makes the world a better place, you know. So volunteering, doing something you're passionate about is really important, and then 420 00:52:53.470 --> 00:53:03.720 Amber Joy Kostecki: figuring out. And you will figure it out eventually. Your purpose in life. And that's that's hopeful, too. So there is always hope definitely. 421 00:53:04.100 --> 00:53:21.119 Amber Joy Kostecki: But yeah, people can do all sorts of traditional non-traditional. I would suggest doing trying whatever you can, you know, like Dbt and Cbt and everything. So just try stuff until you find what works best for you. 422 00:53:23.640 --> 00:53:24.610 Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Thank you. 423 00:53:26.790 --> 00:53:38.030 Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Sadia. Can you go back over the attachment styles that we talked about earlier? I meant to ask you, how can one find out what type of attachment, style they have. 424 00:53:38.640 --> 00:54:05.229 Saadia: There are quizzes online. There's a famous book called Attached, and I think that's kind of the seminal work in this space. But there are some pretty easy quizzes. You can take online. I would start there. And just I mean, see if it resonates like Amber said, Try everything. But take what serves you and leave the rest. You have to differentiate between what helps you and what helps 425 00:54:05.420 --> 00:54:20.150 Saadia: someone else, or even most people. You know, you're an individual, and the only thing that matters is what works for you. So start with a quiz, maybe. And then if if you find this really insightful, you know. Get the book, get it from your library, and 426 00:54:20.450 --> 00:54:24.120 Saadia: and you know, see, see if that helps. 427 00:54:24.640 --> 00:54:26.760 Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Okay, that's fantastic. 428 00:54:27.090 --> 00:54:30.020 Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: I do have a couple of questions. If you're up for it. 429 00:54:30.470 --> 00:54:31.260 Saadia: Of course. 430 00:54:32.090 --> 00:54:43.450 Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: I'd love to ask both of you, what type of advice would you give to your younger self when you 1st started navigating Bpd. As to where you are now in your journey. 431 00:54:43.670 --> 00:54:45.960 Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: What would you say to your younger self? 432 00:54:48.020 --> 00:55:03.210 Saadia: You're not crazy, and everything will eventually make sense. In every disproportionate emotional reaction there is a kernel of justified emotion. So find that kernel and validate it. 433 00:55:03.390 --> 00:55:06.450 Saadia: and it's way easier to let the rest go. 434 00:55:08.130 --> 00:55:17.090 Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Oh, my God! Sadia! That was fantastic! Holy cow! Thank you. I feel so heard. Thank you. Oh, my goodness! There is a colonel 435 00:55:17.620 --> 00:55:19.890 Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: of justified feelings. 436 00:55:20.100 --> 00:55:20.530 Saadia: Oh, my God! 437 00:55:20.530 --> 00:55:22.900 Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Goodness, thank you. Thank you. Thank you. 438 00:55:23.380 --> 00:55:29.709 Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Amber. Do you have anything that you'd love to say to your 1st diagnosed Bpd self? 439 00:55:31.290 --> 00:55:43.279 Amber Joy Kostecki: no, it probably would be about the same like I would tell my younger self to go. Go. Do research, do as much research as you can, and there, and that there's hope, because hope is a huge thing for sure. 440 00:55:44.320 --> 00:55:55.270 Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Yeah. And self-compassion. That's a huge role in managing your Bpd, I can speak for myself on that. I could definitely grow with some self-compassion. 441 00:55:55.730 --> 00:55:56.160 Amber Joy Kostecki: Right. 442 00:55:56.160 --> 00:56:01.969 Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: What's a common misconception about Bpd. That either one of you would like to correct. 443 00:56:04.810 --> 00:56:16.757 Amber Joy Kostecki: I can say one that bothers me. I guess is so. People will see this study that was done. Well, the person somebody saw a study that was done, and they miss 444 00:56:17.730 --> 00:56:21.129 Amber Joy Kostecki: spoke on what the statistic was. 445 00:56:21.240 --> 00:56:34.789 Amber Joy Kostecki: They said that people with borderline they're going to all die by the age of 27. Right? But what the study actually said was the mean age of the participants was 27. 446 00:56:34.940 --> 00:56:52.360 Amber Joy Kostecki: So somebody misquoted that. And now lots of people think that that's true. Lots of people. I've had people come to my support group and say that they're scared of that. And I'm like, well, I'm 44. And this girl is also 44. So we're telling you, it's not true. 447 00:56:52.950 --> 00:56:56.610 Amber Joy Kostecki: Yeah, she was really hard to convince. Actually. 448 00:56:58.270 --> 00:57:10.850 Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Yeah, I can stand right here and tell you, I believe I've actually heard something along those lines as well, just thinking that we had basically an expiration date that the the illness was, you know, gonna lead to 449 00:57:11.310 --> 00:57:20.019 Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: self extinguishment. And that's I thank you so much for saying that because yeah, I am 38, and 450 00:57:20.150 --> 00:57:26.990 Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: I am almost, you know, definitely past that. And I do myself feel like I am in remission. 451 00:57:27.504 --> 00:57:32.330 Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: So that is definitely my my light of hope that I want to leave. 452 00:57:32.490 --> 00:57:37.050 Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: What was your turning point in your journey that led you to advocacy. 453 00:57:38.980 --> 00:58:05.059 Amber Joy Kostecki: For me. I just started doing it right away, too. When I started the nonprofit. I started the advocacy immediately, without even knowing. Really I had to do a lot of research on how to do the whole thing. But yeah, I started advocating for people that came to my group in person with anything I could help with, because I'll help anybody with anything if I can do it for sure. 454 00:58:05.580 --> 00:58:25.709 Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Yeah. So you got diagnosed and then felt such a fire by wanting to have resignation like, There, there's people that understand you, and letting people know that they're not alone, that you understand them, that you basically just immediately put into action and and wanted to let other people know that they weren't crazy. 455 00:58:25.710 --> 00:58:26.290 Amber Joy Kostecki: Yeah. 456 00:58:27.290 --> 00:58:42.529 Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: That's awesome. What are some actionable steps that families and loved ones can take to support someone with Bpd like, in addition to researching their resources, and, you know, getting in touch with the Nea Bpd. 457 00:58:46.440 --> 00:58:49.530 Saadia: Help them find that little kernel of truth. 458 00:58:50.320 --> 00:59:04.309 Saadia: It's really easy. I'm glad you resonated with it so much when I said that, because that was a conclusion that it took me a really long time to come to, and I would oscillate between 459 00:59:04.360 --> 00:59:33.970 Saadia: feeling, you know, extremely righteous, and then feeling like, Oh, God! Like I'm crazy like I can't trust anything I think or feel, and actually none neither of those are correct. And and you know, people, if you let them. There are a lot of people who will make you feel that as a person with Bpd, you just can't trust your feelings at all, and that is too too extreme of a statement. In my opinion I strongly believe that 460 00:59:34.650 --> 00:59:42.290 Saadia: people with Bpd are hypersensitive, and so yes, it's disproportionate. But the the real. 461 00:59:42.440 --> 00:59:48.579 Saadia: the the the thing that sparked it still happened, even if it was a micro expression, even if it was 462 00:59:48.770 --> 01:00:02.879 Saadia: a pause, you know, in a comment, you know, like, you know, why did you pause? Even if it's really really small, it's it's still. It's still something that happened and made you feel a certain way, and 463 01:00:03.170 --> 01:00:17.049 Saadia: you know my my partner. Now, God bless, is really really good at letting me tell him what I'm upset about without taking it personally or thinking that I'm attacking him because he understands that 464 01:00:18.170 --> 01:00:29.050 Saadia: I feel things really deeply, and I need to be able to put those things out there in order either for us to address them or 465 01:00:29.180 --> 01:00:41.160 Saadia: for me to just feel seen and heard, the way that you know people should be able to feel in a relationship. And so that's the advice that I would give. 466 01:00:41.380 --> 01:00:47.040 Saadia: Anybody who loves someone with Bpd is help them find that kernel of truth and 467 01:00:47.740 --> 01:00:58.670 Saadia: help them let go of, and that will help them. You can't help them. Let go of the rest. I know that the instinct is to tell them to calm down. But if you find that kernel of truth, it will help them. Let go of the rest. 468 01:00:59.510 --> 01:01:01.430 Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Yeah, that's beautiful. 469 01:01:01.730 --> 01:01:12.539 Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Thank you so much. I have a resignation with that as well. I am in the most healthiest relationship that I have ever been in, and also the longest. 470 01:01:12.660 --> 01:01:16.650 Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: We just celebrated our 5 year married anniversary. 471 01:01:17.020 --> 01:01:17.890 Saadia: Yeah. 472 01:01:18.190 --> 01:01:22.670 Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Thank you. That's a big, it's it's a big deal for for Casey. 473 01:01:23.480 --> 01:01:23.850 Saadia: And. 474 01:01:23.850 --> 01:01:32.529 Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: But I had a personal milestone like I received an update that you know. 475 01:01:32.790 --> 01:01:37.350 Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: the website got more traction that it than it normally did. 476 01:01:37.670 --> 01:02:05.549 Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: and I was so excited I could not wait to tell my husband about it, because he, you know, sees me work on this tirelessly. This is my passion. This is my passion project, and to see it go up, you know, was a milestone for Casey, and I woke up before he did. It was a Saturday morning. It's not abnormal at all for me to be, you know, a little manic. I get up. I'm all excited about my day. I've been in, you know, 2 or 3 h before he woke up. 477 01:02:05.660 --> 01:02:20.139 Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: and the moment he woke up and he walked into the kitchen I was like, did you see the text message that I sent you? You know, I'd screenshot the email and sent it over to him. And his reaction was, Yeah, I saw it. 478 01:02:20.400 --> 01:02:41.249 Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: and instead of me understanding like Hey Laney, you've been up for like 3 h. Let him get his feet on the ground. Let him have a sip of coffee, and then, you know, listen to his response. I immediately took it personally, because I wanted him to be way more excited about it than I felt like he was. 479 01:02:41.520 --> 01:02:49.990 Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: and I was that was it. That was it. It went from, you know, my knight in shining armor, my best friend. 480 01:02:50.100 --> 01:02:53.929 Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: the man I'm gonna spend the rest of my life with to you know. 481 01:02:54.520 --> 01:03:08.119 Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: How dare you hurt me this bad? You don't care about me at all. Nothing I say is important, like you know it, it just completely. 180 just went up to extreme pushed off the mountain. 482 01:03:08.400 --> 01:03:12.730 Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: and I just shut down. 483 01:03:13.070 --> 01:03:20.750 Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: and he realized that I shut down, which made him also shut down because he didn't 484 01:03:20.860 --> 01:03:26.090 Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: understand the struggle that I was going in mentally, internally. 485 01:03:27.000 --> 01:03:36.979 Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: and it took us sitting down to have the conversation for me to understand that Number one. If he would have done me that way, I would have not 486 01:03:37.440 --> 01:03:45.589 Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: acted. You know, the way that I wanted him to, I would have also added, acted the same way like Bro. I haven't had my coffee yet. I just got here. 487 01:03:45.830 --> 01:03:47.309 Saadia: Give me a second. 488 01:03:47.420 --> 01:03:59.370 Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: You know. And then I realized that I was seeking external validation for a personal milestone, and that 489 01:04:00.660 --> 01:04:07.390 Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: level of emotional like maturity is what saved my day from being ruined. 490 01:04:07.945 --> 01:04:18.880 Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Because I was able to have that conversation with him and say, Oh, wow! I just realized that's what I was doing, and I blamed it on you. It was 100. Gonna be your fault. So 491 01:04:19.090 --> 01:04:23.270 Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: thanks for walking through me, you know, walking through that with me. 492 01:04:23.410 --> 01:04:33.969 Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: But yeah, I mean, it takes patience. It takes communication, and it absolutely takes self-compassion, and and that right support. 493 01:04:35.760 --> 01:04:41.021 Amber Joy Kostecki: I wanted to say something about that, too, like for loved ones and people with borderline 494 01:04:41.900 --> 01:04:43.879 Amber Joy Kostecki: so I'm in a lot of 495 01:04:44.240 --> 01:04:56.889 Amber Joy Kostecki: obviously Facebook borderline groups. But I'm also in groups where it's parents of kids with borderline because my daughter has borderline. So I'm looking at what these people are saying. 496 01:04:57.210 --> 01:05:02.890 Amber Joy Kostecki: Oh, yeah, of the people with borderline. They talk very. It's very stigmatizing. 497 01:05:03.040 --> 01:05:16.789 Amber Joy Kostecki: If the I'm sure if their their child heard while they were talking about them it wouldn't be okay. So they just need to be careful about how they say things and what they say, and that it's not stigmatizing, you know. 498 01:05:17.130 --> 01:05:20.699 Amber Joy Kostecki: anytime. They're talking to the person or anybody else, you know. 499 01:05:21.530 --> 01:05:25.389 Amber Joy Kostecki: in every situation they need to be careful about what they say and how they say it. 500 01:05:26.070 --> 01:05:26.620 Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Yeah. 501 01:05:27.570 --> 01:05:30.949 Saadia: Yeah, I wrote a blog post on this which 502 01:05:31.650 --> 01:05:40.599 Saadia: we can link it in the show notes. But if I so Bpd is. 503 01:05:42.080 --> 01:05:50.600 Saadia: you know it's hard to measure this objectively. But if you Google, most painful mental illness, all sources point to borderline, and 504 01:05:50.860 --> 01:05:55.700 Saadia: I feel like parents. And you know, partners don't 505 01:05:55.800 --> 01:06:02.529 Saadia: know this and and that's why I feel like people who don't have the condition themselves cannot 506 01:06:02.830 --> 01:06:06.910 Saadia: understand what it is like. You know, we have the highest 507 01:06:07.190 --> 01:06:18.585 Saadia: suicide rate of any mental illness. It's it's 1 in 10, unfortunately, and 7 in 10 attempt at some point in in their lives. 508 01:06:19.220 --> 01:06:42.659 Saadia: Which is why people are out here believing that the life expectancy for Bpd is 27, which it absolutely is not as we debunked earlier. But you know. I wish loved ones understood how painful it is. I've tried to explain it in many ways, but something that one of our fellow committee members said 509 01:06:42.850 --> 01:07:06.010 Saadia: on a panel that we had last year really stuck with me, and she said, You know, if I could cut off one of my limbs to get rid of my borderline. I would do it in a second, and I have goosebumps even now, saying that because I knew exactly what she meant, I never thought about it in that way. But you know, imagine 510 01:07:06.200 --> 01:07:33.140 Saadia: the way I've tried to explain it, you know, to people is, imagine when you feel good, it feels like your wedding day or your graduation day, or you're having your 1st child, or you've gotten a promotion that you've been working for your whole life, or you just got elected President of the United States. Okay, that's how I feel when I feel good. And then when you feel bad, it's like your best friend died. It's like your your spouse died. It's like you got fired. It's like. 511 01:07:33.530 --> 01:07:37.059 Saadia: you know, you found out you have. Well, okay, I won't 512 01:07:37.610 --> 01:07:44.630 Saadia: appropriate anyone else's illnesses. But but that's how it feels, and that's how intense it is, and 513 01:07:44.760 --> 01:07:49.049 Saadia: you know remission is possible. But, like loved ones. 514 01:07:49.410 --> 01:08:09.650 Saadia: I wish they understood that. At the same time I'm not saying that people with Bpd have a past to act. However, they want because they absolutely don't, and what I would want them to know was that was that one people. Other people do not understand your emotional experience. They they do not understand. You know your your husband. 515 01:08:10.220 --> 01:08:20.499 Saadia: He! He! He! He doesn't understand why you feel the way you feel, because he doesn't have Bpd. And and so, you know, giving people that, Grace. 516 01:08:20.620 --> 01:08:37.040 Saadia: It's very easy to want to be like he like he must know he hurt me on purpose, and of course he knows how I feel, but they really don't. They don't know how you feel. And so it's your job to communicate that. So 517 01:08:37.260 --> 01:08:40.980 Saadia: I would want that. That's what I would say. People. 518 01:08:42.130 --> 01:08:48.209 Saadia: you know, loved ones. Kind of, yeah, does that help. 519 01:08:48.210 --> 01:08:58.469 Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Yes, yes, it does, and it brings me to actually a talking point. So one of the things that I personally would like to dispel is the word 520 01:08:58.720 --> 01:09:00.340 Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: manipulation. 521 01:09:01.090 --> 01:09:09.449 Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: So I have seen that word a whole lot when it comes to Bpd. And it being tied to being one of the I guess 522 01:09:09.910 --> 01:09:11.350 Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: characteristics of it. 523 01:09:11.580 --> 01:09:18.479 Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: and I would like to say out loud, I don't like that word. I hate that word so much. I don't feel at all that it 524 01:09:19.250 --> 01:09:33.349 Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: represents me, except for now, in this conversation, when we're having internalized like our loved ones don't understand what we're going through. But you know we think they must. I think that's internal and mental. 525 01:09:33.520 --> 01:09:41.860 Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: like self manipulation, like I feel like. I manipulated myself 526 01:09:42.680 --> 01:09:49.559 Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: to believe that he didn't care about me, and he didn't care about my accomplishments, or you know, things like that. That's 527 01:09:50.250 --> 01:09:52.159 Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: maybe where that came from. 528 01:09:52.330 --> 01:09:53.819 Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Does that sound right? 529 01:09:54.810 --> 01:10:10.250 Saadia: I think the source of the manipulation is the degree of pain, and the fact that people without the condition can't understand that. And so they don't understand why a person with Bpd would be acting in such a 530 01:10:10.250 --> 01:10:29.420 Saadia: because, you know, manipulation is trying to influence something, someone to do what you want. And so, you know, people with Bpd. It feels so painful for things not to go the way that they want that they may engage in some behaviors that can be seen as manipulation, and I believe that the root of the root of that is, that 531 01:10:29.700 --> 01:10:36.120 Saadia: is, that the loved ones don't understand really the the 532 01:10:36.500 --> 01:10:49.319 Saadia: the tight spot that the person with with Bpd is in, and the person with Bpd. Doesn't understand that the thing that their lives won't end. You know the world won't end if this thing doesn't go their way because it it really feels like it will. 533 01:10:49.320 --> 01:10:50.960 Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: It feels like it will. Yeah. 534 01:10:51.500 --> 01:10:52.080 Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Oh, yeah. 535 01:10:52.080 --> 01:11:00.350 Saadia: Feels like a whale, and I wrote this down. But this is the damaging effect. It can have to be accused of manipulation, you know repeatedly. And 536 01:11:00.420 --> 01:11:06.190 Saadia: you know I wrote this a few years ago, and I just found it a few weeks ago, and I took a picture of it because 537 01:11:06.210 --> 01:11:19.670 Saadia: it it really it really you know, hurt my heart to to read and and think that this was how I was feeling, and so the prompt was an assignment from my therapist, and it said. 538 01:11:19.670 --> 01:11:37.690 Saadia: You know, what are you afraid will happen if you talk about your personal needs with your therapist? And I said this, if I talk about my personal needs with my therapist, then I will either get them met and feel manipulative, slash, guilty and selfish, and anxious that they will be revoked once the manipulation is discovered 539 01:11:37.700 --> 01:11:54.499 Saadia: or not, get them met and feel misunderstood, and thus emotionally isolated, confused, guilty, like I have attempted to manipulate him, and failed, and thus exposed, for not only for my shameful, sneaky, bad behavior, but also for my weaknesses, read, needs. 540 01:11:55.620 --> 01:11:58.710 Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Wow, wow. 541 01:12:03.410 --> 01:12:07.560 Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: yeah, that's good 542 01:12:12.300 --> 01:12:13.466 Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: and grief. 543 01:12:14.290 --> 01:12:15.999 Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: How do we get past that. 544 01:12:18.650 --> 01:12:21.869 Saadia: Oh, Amber, do you have any ideas? 545 01:12:21.870 --> 01:12:25.770 Amber Joy Kostecki: How to get past the manipulate like being called manipulative or. 546 01:12:25.770 --> 01:12:28.540 Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Or having. How do we get past 547 01:12:29.890 --> 01:12:32.809 Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: a rock and a hard spot? How do we get past 548 01:12:34.180 --> 01:12:41.740 Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: being willing to be able to talk to somebody and having that openness to have that conversation without that 549 01:12:41.870 --> 01:12:47.510 Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: in the background, thinking, oh, you know, if this works out for me, they're gonna take it right back away. 550 01:12:47.650 --> 01:12:54.319 Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: or like, you know, a love given, and then a love taken like the carpet being pulled out from underneath you. 551 01:12:54.420 --> 01:12:59.736 Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: or you just continue to self hard, like 552 01:13:00.600 --> 01:13:05.540 Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: avalanche, you know, like into self destruction, because 553 01:13:06.340 --> 01:13:08.929 Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: you don't feel like that's gonna be 554 01:13:09.870 --> 01:13:19.889 Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: a conversation. There's no way that it's gonna be fixed type thing. So you just continue to go downhill. How can you? How can you get past these 555 01:13:20.170 --> 01:13:21.449 Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: 2 options. 556 01:13:21.700 --> 01:13:25.410 Amber Joy Kostecki: Yeah, I guess. Well, one thing you could do is mindfulness. 557 01:13:25.977 --> 01:13:29.749 Amber Joy Kostecki: Which is part of Gbt and can be very helpful. 558 01:13:31.420 --> 01:13:39.290 Amber Joy Kostecki: Otherwise, I mean, that's a hard one. Yeah, because, hmm. 559 01:13:40.760 --> 01:13:48.190 Amber Joy Kostecki: yeah, I guess it just takes experience like living it like lived experience. You will hopefully get out of that. 560 01:13:48.670 --> 01:13:51.500 Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: And word manipulation. Yeah. 561 01:13:51.500 --> 01:13:56.919 Amber Joy Kostecki: It takes many years to heal and get to remission. Yeah, it's not not easy. 562 01:13:57.360 --> 01:14:03.179 Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Yeah, takes years to navigate it and figure out even. I have a wrench to throw at you. 563 01:14:03.690 --> 01:14:06.769 Amber Joy Kostecki: Have you either of you. 564 01:14:07.290 --> 01:14:12.359 Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Before or after, or in addition to been diagnosed with 565 01:14:12.810 --> 01:14:17.980 Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: bipolar disorder because of the extreme highs and the extreme lows. 566 01:14:18.570 --> 01:14:27.430 Amber Joy Kostecki: I am diagnosed with bipolar. I was diagnosed with bipolar, like 3 years after I was diagnosed with borderline 567 01:14:28.051 --> 01:14:39.509 Amber Joy Kostecki: so at 1st it was bipolar 2, and then they changed it to bipolar one. But I don't. I only get the high highs I get like I get 568 01:14:39.630 --> 01:14:46.539 Amber Joy Kostecki: it for like 3 days, and then I could just go back to being regular order line. I don't get those lows, which is good. 569 01:14:46.960 --> 01:14:47.590 Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Yeah. 570 01:14:48.980 --> 01:14:59.039 Saadia: Yeah, I was misdiagnosed with bipolar 2 when I was a teenager, and I I self diagnosed with Bpd. When I was 571 01:14:59.330 --> 01:15:11.759 Saadia: in 2020. So when I was 21 I was on Reddit, and it was Covid, and I had very little to do, so I went down a Reddit Rabbit hole. And I, I 572 01:15:12.030 --> 01:15:35.340 Saadia: decided to Google the list of symptoms because I kept seeing Bpd. Bpd. Bpd. And reading the list of symptoms was such a turning point in my life because I had never felt seen before. I had been in the mental health system for years and years and years, almost a decade at that point, and I had always felt like there was something specially wrong with me, because 573 01:15:35.580 --> 01:15:44.789 Saadia: depression didn't cover it. Anxiety didn't cover it. Ptsd bipolar. None of this stuff really got the deep emotional 574 01:15:44.950 --> 01:15:52.629 Saadia: anguish that I I was in like many times a day. And then all of a sudden, I wasn't, you know. So 575 01:15:53.380 --> 01:15:58.801 Saadia: you know, I took the diagnosis to my primary care physician, and and she diagnosed me and 576 01:15:59.370 --> 01:16:01.714 Saadia: it was very clearly 577 01:16:04.770 --> 01:16:20.089 Saadia: I think, because I was quiet. Bpd, it was a little harder to diagnose, but I told my therapist who I'd been seeing since I was 15, that I had Bpd. And he just said, I know 578 01:16:20.280 --> 01:16:20.890 Saadia: I knew that. 579 01:16:20.890 --> 01:16:21.800 Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Oh, my goodness! 580 01:16:21.990 --> 01:16:28.720 Saadia: And I was like, why didn't you tell me? And he basically said that it was so stigmatized that he didn't. 581 01:16:28.720 --> 01:16:35.256 Saadia: Well, and I was so furious. I never saw him again after that. I haven't seen him since. 582 01:16:37.550 --> 01:16:42.420 Saadia: and I mean he I mean this man charged like 583 01:16:43.450 --> 01:16:51.170 Saadia: $400 for 45 min sessions, and he didn't tell me I had Bpd, I mean, I I just like 584 01:16:52.610 --> 01:17:04.349 Saadia: you know, I'm an attorney, and that would be considered malpractice in my field. I know things are a little different in the in the and he's not. He's not a psychiatrist. He doesn't have a medical degree. But 585 01:17:05.180 --> 01:17:19.880 Saadia: you know, knowing that I had Bpd for years, and not telling me 1st of all, it perpetuates the stigma because it it goes along with this idea that your diagnosis is so bad 586 01:17:20.030 --> 01:17:22.780 Saadia: that we can't even tell it to you. Okay, yeah. 587 01:17:22.780 --> 01:17:23.360 Saadia: Okay. 588 01:17:23.440 --> 01:17:53.180 Saadia: Second of all, if you don't have the diagnosis. You can't treat it, you know. Bpd, there's no medicine for it. It's a collection of symptoms, and you have to be really cognizant of the symptoms, and they're written down in a list for you, you know. So when you get the diagnosis, you can really focus on. Okay, I need to stop these impulsive behaviors. Okay, I have an unstable self image. You know. I need to start journaling and reflecting on my identity. You know I have unstable relationships. You know, how can I get them more stable and this sort of stuff? So 589 01:17:54.038 --> 01:18:04.540 Saadia: I don't even know what the question was. Oh, yes, so yeah. I have a lot of beef with the, with the mental health system and a lot of the providers, because. 590 01:18:05.160 --> 01:18:10.849 Saadia: you know, it's a really new field, and I had, you know, some 591 01:18:12.150 --> 01:18:17.549 Saadia: some less than competent providers, and 592 01:18:18.480 --> 01:18:25.919 Saadia: that you know it kind of. I feel like it took away years of my life, you know. If I had been diagnosed properly at the time. Then 593 01:18:26.690 --> 01:18:31.969 Saadia: maybe I could have gotten better a little faster, and enjoyed a little more of my life. 594 01:18:32.500 --> 01:18:38.720 Saadia: Another myth. In addition to the idea that Bpd is a life sentence is 595 01:18:38.990 --> 01:18:49.149 Saadia: that Bpd. And any personality disorder cannot be given as a diagnosis to someone under 18. This is no longer best. Practice. 596 01:18:51.950 --> 01:18:53.530 Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Thank you for letting us know that 597 01:18:54.150 --> 01:19:10.820 Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: I absolutely love that story because that is a key prime example. Just how difficult Bpd is like you're absolutely right. It was quote, unquote, so bad that they didn't even want to tell you because of this stigma attached to it. 598 01:19:11.210 --> 01:19:12.456 Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: That's incredible. 599 01:19:13.481 --> 01:19:19.499 Saadia: After 6 years and tens of thousands of dollars. I mean, I was pissed. Okay. 600 01:19:20.200 --> 01:19:26.360 Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: I bet. What did you so what did you think the like? The whole time you thought that it was 601 01:19:26.510 --> 01:19:28.490 Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: bipolar only. 602 01:19:28.950 --> 01:19:33.590 Saadia: I thought that it was no, I I thought that it was Ptsd. 603 01:19:33.960 --> 01:19:34.750 Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Oh, wow! 604 01:19:35.040 --> 01:19:35.650 Saadia: Yeah. 605 01:19:36.910 --> 01:19:38.870 Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Well, I can understand how that 606 01:19:39.400 --> 01:19:49.050 Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: how you felt that way, though, too, you know, like with borderline, I can absolutely understand why you would think it was Ptsd related. Because, yeah, it is 607 01:19:49.440 --> 01:19:51.970 Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: I. I relate to that. 608 01:19:55.310 --> 01:20:00.810 Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Well, wrapping her up, what message of hope would you like to leave with our audience. 609 01:20:03.702 --> 01:20:04.729 Amber Joy Kostecki: I would say. 610 01:20:05.190 --> 01:20:33.730 Amber Joy Kostecki: I would say, to be hopeful, just to stay hopeful, because you never know what's going to happen, and everything happens for a reason, and you need to look at your life and accept things. Acceptance is really key, because if you don't accept something you can't change it. So you 1st have to accept it, and accepting your whole past is hard to do. But it it can happen. It does happen, and it helps once you do. 611 01:20:36.020 --> 01:20:40.829 Saadia: Yeah, I 100% agree with amber, what? I would. 612 01:20:40.970 --> 01:20:52.899 Saadia: what? I would like to share is that bpd is 100% treatable. It is out an outdated idea that it's 613 01:20:53.480 --> 01:20:54.290 Saadia: it's 614 01:20:54.890 --> 01:21:05.540 Saadia: not treatable, and it's actually more treatable than substance. Use disorder. So an 8 week course of Dbt is is. 615 01:21:06.080 --> 01:21:17.497 Saadia: will help a person with Bpd. More than it will help a person with substance use disorder, so if you have it, if you think you have it. Don't be afraid of it. Dive right in it's it's 616 01:21:18.760 --> 01:21:20.020 Saadia: It's treatable. 617 01:21:22.120 --> 01:21:27.079 Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: For our audience. Can you just let us know what is Dbt. 618 01:21:28.820 --> 01:21:36.100 Saadia: Dialectical behavioral therapy. It was founded by Marshall Linehan for people who were 619 01:21:36.490 --> 01:21:48.899 Saadia: very suicidal, and it has since been expanded to be used for people with depression, anxiety, pretty much all of of the 620 01:21:49.170 --> 01:22:16.329 Saadia: you know, most common mental health challenges. And it's essentially a collection of skills. You know, there's a distress tolerance unit. There's an interpersonal effectiveness unit. There are tons of free resources online that that you can access. There's a workbook by Kiki failing FEHL, ING, which I've done, that I found pretty pretty useful, so if you can't afford 621 01:22:17.050 --> 01:22:21.099 Saadia: a provider that's like a low cost way to 622 01:22:21.720 --> 01:22:25.330 Saadia: to get some of the benefits of it. 623 01:22:25.740 --> 01:22:34.620 Saadia: Dbt is kind of a lot of people consider it the gold standard, but a lot of people also have other 624 01:22:36.240 --> 01:22:40.780 Saadia: perspectives, and I know amber has some alternative. 625 01:22:43.610 --> 01:22:46.570 Saadia: Has alternatives that maybe she would like to share. 626 01:22:46.830 --> 01:22:55.830 Amber Joy Kostecki: Yeah, you're saying like the the things I've used or tried to instill in people to do like volunteering. Number one volunteering. 627 01:22:56.410 --> 01:22:59.619 Amber Joy Kostecki: Think of what you're passionate about, because 628 01:22:59.820 --> 01:23:13.449 Amber Joy Kostecki: it's not nothing. You got to be passionate about something and use that to feel out where you want to volunteer at, or with or online or in person. Either way, it's just a good thing to do 629 01:23:14.172 --> 01:23:15.277 Amber Joy Kostecki: and then 630 01:23:16.620 --> 01:23:42.059 Amber Joy Kostecki: acceptance, like I said, you have to accept everything from your past completely and fully in order to change it. So that's really important. And then self-awareness is also really important. I have my own theories and stuff about borderline. But what I feel is there? It's on levels, not a spectrum, but levels. 631 01:23:42.390 --> 01:23:47.390 Amber Joy Kostecki: And the more self-aware you become, the higher the level you become. 632 01:23:48.390 --> 01:23:48.895 Saadia: Hmm. 633 01:23:49.400 --> 01:23:50.740 Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Yeah, I like that. 634 01:23:51.910 --> 01:23:55.699 Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Can you give us? Maybe just a little bit more on that. 635 01:23:56.503 --> 01:23:58.769 Amber Joy Kostecki: On like the levels and the well. 636 01:23:58.770 --> 01:23:59.380 Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Sure. 637 01:23:59.570 --> 01:24:02.210 Amber Joy Kostecki: So when you become self-aware. 638 01:24:02.460 --> 01:24:23.110 Amber Joy Kostecki: you start to have realizations about things like, I started to have realizations like deep realizations, real huge things. And then you accept those realizations because you might fight it and not want to accept those either. But it's a it's you have to do that. So 639 01:24:23.280 --> 01:24:27.279 Amber Joy Kostecki: yeah, I mean, that's pretty much it. It just takes a long time to do. 640 01:24:27.590 --> 01:24:30.140 Amber Joy Kostecki: but it's it's worth it. And it works. 641 01:24:31.160 --> 01:24:37.700 Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Yeah, yeah, I I had a realization that you know, once I had my own children. 642 01:24:38.580 --> 01:24:42.290 Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: That my caregivers just 643 01:24:43.130 --> 01:24:47.919 Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: they didn't know how to love me properly because they didn't have the love that they needed either. 644 01:24:48.726 --> 01:24:50.070 Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: I think that's a 645 01:24:50.220 --> 01:24:57.740 Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: a step of a level is being able to understand like you don't know how to do better if you don't know how to do better. 646 01:24:57.880 --> 01:24:59.589 Amber Joy Kostecki: Right? Exactly. Yeah. 647 01:25:00.960 --> 01:25:21.179 Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Well, thank you so much for joining us today, ladies, I want to give the message that all of our audience, if you are with Bpd. You are not alone, you are not broken, and Bpd. Is just one part of your story. With support you can write the rest of it on your terms. 648 01:25:21.360 --> 01:25:30.009 Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Recovery is possible even on those hardest of days. Just know that you're worthy of love, support, and understanding. 649 01:25:30.350 --> 01:25:42.559 Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Thank you so much, Ida, and amber for sharing your stories and insights. Today you've brought so much hope and humanity to this conversation. You guys, I've really enjoyed talking to you. 650 01:25:43.180 --> 01:25:44.029 Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: to our listeners. 651 01:25:44.030 --> 01:25:44.600 Saadia: Thank you. 652 01:25:44.880 --> 01:25:45.310 Amber Joy Kostecki: That's correct. 653 01:25:45.310 --> 01:25:46.590 Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Yes, thank you. Thank you. 654 01:25:48.390 --> 01:25:58.860 Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: To our listeners. If you want to learn more, check out www.ne. abpd.org. 655 01:25:59.250 --> 01:26:05.479 Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Thanks for turning in to tune on. Thank you for turning in to take off the mask, and we'll see you next time. 656 01:26:06.190 --> 01:26:07.410 Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Bye, ladies. 657 01:26:07.410 --> 01:26:07.860 Amber Joy Kostecki: Bye. 658 01:26:07.860 --> 01:26:08.740 Saadia: Bye. 659 01:26:13.030 --> 01:26:15.349 Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Alright. Thank you, Seida. Have a great day.