WEBVTT

NOTE
This file was generated by Descript 

00:00:00.970 --> 00:00:01.290
Mario: Alan.

00:00:01.290 --> 00:00:01.640
Alan: Hello?

00:00:02.665 --> 00:00:02.905
Mario: Hello?

00:00:02.905 --> 00:00:03.265
Hello?

00:00:04.495 --> 00:00:04.765
Good.

00:00:04.765 --> 00:00:05.185
How are you doing?

00:00:05.560 --> 00:00:05.770
Alan: Ham.

00:00:05.780 --> 00:00:06.100
Okay.

00:00:07.180 --> 00:00:07.420
Hello.

00:00:07.420 --> 00:00:08.620
It is confused as well as you.

00:00:09.275 --> 00:00:12.995
Mario: I know,  that change threw me off.

00:00:13.210 --> 00:00:13.450
Alan: Yeah.

00:00:13.450 --> 00:00:14.080
Yeah, exactly.

00:00:14.080 --> 00:00:15.340
It's that extra week that I was like,

00:00:17.375 --> 00:00:17.645
Mario: Yeah, I

00:00:17.840 --> 00:00:22.870
Alan: like, they look popped up on like,
Hey, I'm like, oh yeah, that hold on.

00:00:22.870 --> 00:00:24.130
That was just recovered the thing out yet.

00:00:24.495 --> 00:00:28.863
Mario: yeah, I thought we were
going to record do the, do the

00:00:28.873 --> 00:00:32.623
onboarding tomorrow and then that
we were going to meet to record

00:00:32.828 --> 00:00:33.608
Alan: right, exactly.

00:00:33.938 --> 00:00:35.558
I mean, we can do that if you prefer.

00:00:35.648 --> 00:00:36.008
I don't mind

00:00:36.703 --> 00:00:37.403
Mario: no, no, no.

00:00:37.708 --> 00:00:38.738
Alan: a quickie and then.

00:00:40.078 --> 00:00:40.948
Mario: No, that's fine.

00:00:40.978 --> 00:00:41.368
That's funny.

00:00:41.378 --> 00:00:42.628
We can, we can do this.

00:00:42.928 --> 00:00:47.128
Alan: I say it, it might, might be worth
also recording the onboarding tomorrow as

00:00:47.128 --> 00:00:48.958
well, just as a reference point for you.

00:00:48.985 --> 00:00:52.084
Like it's cause I saw our
software social also did a a

00:00:52.114 --> 00:00:54.064
customer interview kind of thing.

00:00:54.058 --> 00:00:56.698
So they basically posted
like the, the role rodeo of

00:00:56.698 --> 00:00:58.498
the, of a customer interview.

00:00:58.498 --> 00:01:02.878
And it was kind of interested in
hearing that as a, like an, a bonus

00:01:02.878 --> 00:01:03.988
kind of content kind of thing.

00:01:03.988 --> 00:01:04.198
So,

00:01:04.458 --> 00:01:05.268
Mario: Ah, cool.

00:01:05.298 --> 00:01:05.838
Yeah.

00:01:06.078 --> 00:01:07.188
Yeah, that sounds good.

00:01:07.278 --> 00:01:07.968
Let's do it.

00:01:08.868 --> 00:01:11.418
So did you notice it's already recording?

00:01:12.088 --> 00:01:13.288
Alan: oh, it is.

00:01:13.858 --> 00:01:14.488
Oh, nice one.

00:01:14.608 --> 00:01:14.938
Cool.

00:01:17.188 --> 00:01:18.028
Ah, sneaky.

00:01:18.628 --> 00:01:18.998
I didn't.

00:01:19.038 --> 00:01:20.488
I was like, well, should
I start recording?

00:01:20.518 --> 00:01:22.438
Oh, cool.

00:01:23.408 --> 00:01:23.918
Mario: Yeah.

00:01:23.978 --> 00:01:24.188
Yeah.

00:01:24.188 --> 00:01:28.748
So I, I got that feature going where
it's auto starts recording automatically

00:01:28.728 --> 00:01:30.518
locally, as soon as you log in.

00:01:30.927 --> 00:01:31.257
Alan: Cool.

00:01:31.763 --> 00:01:32.213
Mario: Yeah.

00:01:32.219 --> 00:01:36.772
But perhaps I need to make it more obvious
so that the person knows that they're

00:01:36.772 --> 00:01:39.292
being recorded because you didn't know.

00:01:39.351 --> 00:01:39.551
Alan: know,

00:01:41.272 --> 00:01:45.232
Mario: So even though it says
at the top, but it's not, I

00:01:45.232 --> 00:01:46.972
guess it's not obvious enough,

00:01:47.931 --> 00:01:51.021
Alan: maybe some kind of notification
thing that just kind of pops up

00:01:51.021 --> 00:01:54.608
and just says yeah, maybe some kind
of banner that just says recording

00:01:54.608 --> 00:01:54.908
has been

00:01:55.069 --> 00:01:58.399
Mario: recording local recording
in progress or something like that.

00:01:58.598 --> 00:01:58.808
Alan: Yeah,

00:01:59.629 --> 00:02:00.049
Mario: Okay.

00:02:00.199 --> 00:02:03.199
Yeah, yeah, yeah,

00:02:03.878 --> 00:02:04.118
Alan: Nice

00:02:04.219 --> 00:02:04.579
Mario: yeah.

00:02:04.609 --> 00:02:05.449
Okay, cool.

00:02:06.499 --> 00:02:07.399
Yeah, I'll do that.

00:02:08.239 --> 00:02:09.199
So have you been,

00:02:10.388 --> 00:02:10.718
Alan: Good.

00:02:11.078 --> 00:02:14.438
It's like, I know it's weird because
like, as we talked last rate, right.

00:02:14.438 --> 00:02:17.238
But I don't know what the
hell does the time go?

00:02:19.748 --> 00:02:20.638
No things are good to things.

00:02:20.648 --> 00:02:20.828
Good.

00:02:21.008 --> 00:02:24.098
I think also we were away for
the weekend, so I w mother-in-law

00:02:24.128 --> 00:02:25.148
mother-in-law's for the weekend.

00:02:25.158 --> 00:02:27.398
So I kind of like add last two days.

00:02:28.213 --> 00:02:28.663
Hiking,

00:02:29.349 --> 00:02:29.889
Mario: Yeah.

00:02:29.893 --> 00:02:30.163
Alan: know,

00:02:30.169 --> 00:02:30.679
Mario: Yeah.

00:02:31.243 --> 00:02:37.393
Alan: kind of like, what did I do other
than it's, it's a bad habit to kind of

00:02:37.963 --> 00:02:41.454
do this development of the weekends, but
it's sometimes unfortunately the only

00:02:41.454 --> 00:02:44.994
time you can get stuff done when you're
juggling full-time stuff during the week

00:02:44.994 --> 00:02:49.464
and things, and then like the kid often,
you know, disappears for the weekend

00:02:49.464 --> 00:02:50.844
days to go out and play with the trends.

00:02:50.844 --> 00:02:55.014
So it's like, oh, I've got like two hours
to squeeze in an extra bit of bonus work.

00:02:55.014 --> 00:02:56.724
So a bad

00:02:56.769 --> 00:03:02.169
Mario: when you get it, get some,
some, sometimes some, a solid block

00:03:02.169 --> 00:03:04.539
of hours to, to work on things.

00:03:04.854 --> 00:03:05.394
Alan: exactly.

00:03:05.424 --> 00:03:07.394
And I don't know about
you, but I'm really bad.

00:03:07.404 --> 00:03:08.064
I kind of.

00:03:09.219 --> 00:03:10.179
It's evenings.

00:03:10.179 --> 00:03:13.299
I find it much easier to get
into the zone then daytime.

00:03:13.299 --> 00:03:17.409
So I have this terrible habit of
like, you know, oh, it's 10 o'clock.

00:03:17.409 --> 00:03:21.189
I'll just do a, you know, an hour before
bed, like one o'clock in the morning.

00:03:21.189 --> 00:03:23.199
And I'm like, but I've just
got to finish these things off.

00:03:23.199 --> 00:03:24.909
Like, I can't do that during the day.

00:03:24.909 --> 00:03:29.049
It's like, you know, my trying to get
like a continuous block of just like, I

00:03:29.049 --> 00:03:33.719
can do this and then you get distracted,
but evenings are so easy to get focused.

00:03:33.809 --> 00:03:34.589
It's yeah,

00:03:35.109 --> 00:03:35.499
Mario: Yeah.

00:03:35.529 --> 00:03:36.969
I've done that so many times.

00:03:37.029 --> 00:03:39.129
Yeah, totally.

00:03:39.499 --> 00:03:44.172
Alan: and then unfortunately my son has
to leave for school, like seven 30 ish.

00:03:44.172 --> 00:03:46.482
So yeah, that doesn't,
it's not compatible,

00:03:47.483 --> 00:03:48.503
Mario: Oh yeah, yeah,

00:03:48.952 --> 00:03:52.092
Alan: it's a habit and it happens,
but yeah, probably shouldn't.

00:03:52.713 --> 00:03:54.063
Mario: I've done that so many times.

00:03:54.115 --> 00:03:54.875
It's tough.

00:03:54.965 --> 00:03:55.385
Yeah.

00:03:55.455 --> 00:03:58.425
I've brought my laptop to
bed sometimes just to, okay.

00:03:58.425 --> 00:04:02.715
I'm just gonna do a little bit just
before I go to bed and then yeah,

00:04:02.745 --> 00:04:06.345
sure enough, you know, one o'clock
rolls around and I'm still at it.

00:04:06.735 --> 00:04:07.755
If my wife is like,

00:04:07.870 --> 00:04:08.860
Alan: I've just got to finish this.

00:04:08.890 --> 00:04:10.330
This is really important.

00:04:11.500 --> 00:04:12.010
Mario: Yeah.

00:04:12.220 --> 00:04:15.370
And my wife wakes up later and then
she's like, you're still awake.

00:04:16.870 --> 00:04:17.080
Yeah.

00:04:17.160 --> 00:04:17.400
Alan: Yeah.

00:04:17.520 --> 00:04:18.000
Bad habit.

00:04:19.120 --> 00:04:19.420
Mario: Yeah.

00:04:19.420 --> 00:04:20.140
And I good.

00:04:20.550 --> 00:04:24.000
Alan: So you've been a, he got
any anybody else onboarded?

00:04:24.820 --> 00:04:26.200
Mario: No, no, not yet.

00:04:26.290 --> 00:04:26.890
No,

00:04:26.940 --> 00:04:27.780
Alan: I'm the next run, right?

00:04:28.080 --> 00:04:28.650
I'm the next

00:04:28.631 --> 00:04:29.576
Mario: You you're next?

00:04:29.805 --> 00:04:30.075
Alan: pig.

00:04:30.606 --> 00:04:30.906
Mario: Yeah.

00:04:31.586 --> 00:04:32.276
You're next.

00:04:32.936 --> 00:04:35.516
So, no, I haven't onboarded anybody else.

00:04:35.571 --> 00:04:38.331
But I've been busy making changes.

00:04:38.369 --> 00:04:40.361
Applying changes based on that feedback.

00:04:40.428 --> 00:04:44.322
You might notice, it looks a little
bit different, not by much, but

00:04:44.352 --> 00:04:48.582
the screens are separated now that
there's a little bit of a split

00:04:49.512 --> 00:04:50.952
before there were all together.

00:04:51.001 --> 00:04:54.541
Alan: Right now, I was just thinking, it
looks kind of it's it's funny how, you

00:04:54.541 --> 00:04:57.061
know, again, I'm not a great designer.

00:04:57.301 --> 00:04:58.051
I'm not a designer,

00:04:59.732 --> 00:05:00.302
Mario: Same here.

00:05:01.311 --> 00:05:04.111
Alan: when you kind of make small
differences and you're like, I

00:05:04.111 --> 00:05:05.381
think this is, this is better.

00:05:05.381 --> 00:05:06.361
I'm I'm not sure.

00:05:06.631 --> 00:05:09.931
And then you come back to it like a few
days later and you accidentally load

00:05:09.931 --> 00:05:12.121
like the previous version or something.

00:05:12.121 --> 00:05:13.891
You're like, oh my God,
like this, this is terrible.

00:05:13.921 --> 00:05:18.091
Like, it's amazing how things do
improve and you put, you're not

00:05:18.091 --> 00:05:19.261
actually sure about it at the time.

00:05:19.471 --> 00:05:23.923
So I, like, I kind of changed some
of the like the border and the shadow

00:05:23.923 --> 00:05:25.483
on some of the boxes on my thing.

00:05:25.693 --> 00:05:28.393
And at the time I'm like, I
can't tell which is better.

00:05:28.423 --> 00:05:30.703
They look kind of similar, just different.

00:05:30.768 --> 00:05:34.428
But then, yeah, I hadn't deployed
the new version and I went to the

00:05:34.828 --> 00:05:36.108
deployed version production version.

00:05:36.978 --> 00:05:37.908
Oh, who's broken the site.

00:05:37.908 --> 00:05:41.988
It looks terrible and say,
I made that change to know.

00:05:41.988 --> 00:05:42.678
So it's

00:05:43.128 --> 00:05:43.398
Mario: That's

00:05:43.488 --> 00:05:43.878
Alan: that's good.

00:05:44.298 --> 00:05:44.538
Yeah,

00:05:44.748 --> 00:05:45.648
Mario: That's validation.

00:05:46.368 --> 00:05:49.968
Alan: This is the, again, one of the
downs, I don't know if this does that a

00:05:50.088 --> 00:05:54.768
bonus of, of it not being my full-time.

00:05:54.798 --> 00:05:56.628
I'm not concentrating
on this all the time.

00:05:56.628 --> 00:05:56.808
Right?

00:05:56.808 --> 00:06:00.528
You, you, you are working on
other things most of the time.

00:06:01.248 --> 00:06:04.278
And then when you come back to
it, you're like, well, I'm not

00:06:04.278 --> 00:06:05.478
sure who made that decision, but

00:06:05.828 --> 00:06:06.068
Mario: Yeah.

00:06:06.648 --> 00:06:09.768
Alan: you can be reasonably objective
about the decisions because it's

00:06:09.768 --> 00:06:12.948
like, I don't remember him making
that decision so I can be critical

00:06:12.948 --> 00:06:14.208
of it because I'm not sure it was me.

00:06:14.748 --> 00:06:15.978
Mario: yeah, totally.

00:06:16.158 --> 00:06:20.048
And that goes with code too, and not just
the visual aspects, but with code I've,

00:06:20.048 --> 00:06:22.278
I've come back to my own codes sometimes.

00:06:22.658 --> 00:06:29.408
And then I look at it, I'm like, huh, what
was I thinking when I, when I coded this

00:06:29.493 --> 00:06:29.703
Alan: Yep.

00:06:30.363 --> 00:06:33.596
No, I mean, absolutely the best, one
of the best refactoring God debugging

00:06:33.596 --> 00:06:35.456
techniques is to just like walk away.

00:06:36.416 --> 00:06:39.866
And I do this all the time and I walk away
from it for like three or four days at

00:06:39.866 --> 00:06:43.466
a time and coming back to it and then be
like, wow, that was a really bad decision.

00:06:43.592 --> 00:06:43.952
Mario: Yeah.

00:06:44.816 --> 00:06:46.736
Alan: You could, you know,
like I'd fire that person.

00:06:46.736 --> 00:06:47.366
That was terrible.

00:06:47.385 --> 00:06:49.973
But yeah, you can be pretty
objective about it when yeah.

00:06:50.033 --> 00:06:51.743
You can distance yourself from your code.

00:06:52.498 --> 00:06:53.218
Mario: Yeah.

00:06:53.368 --> 00:06:56.458
And, and there you go
start refactoring again and

00:06:56.567 --> 00:06:57.707
Alan: Especially for me.

00:06:57.707 --> 00:07:01.178
Cause I'm so I'm developing
DotPlan in Elixir and Phoenix.

00:07:02.118 --> 00:07:05.741
And this is my first Elixir
Phoenix production app.

00:07:05.751 --> 00:07:08.361
Which I think I mentioned,
I, it wasn't intentional.

00:07:08.361 --> 00:07:10.611
I was like, oh, I should try this out.

00:07:10.611 --> 00:07:12.201
See how, you know, see how I like it.

00:07:12.471 --> 00:07:14.001
And then I'm like, oh, I built a thing.

00:07:14.947 --> 00:07:15.277
Mario: yeah,

00:07:15.441 --> 00:07:18.801
Alan: So you just kind of, so I'm
very much learning as I go with it

00:07:18.801 --> 00:07:21.681
in terms of, you know, I'm applying
all of the things I've known in

00:07:21.691 --> 00:07:23.331
developing rails apps, but 10 years.

00:07:23.317 --> 00:07:26.779
But there's a lot of, I don't
want to say subtle as could

00:07:26.779 --> 00:07:28.189
some quite huge differences.

00:07:28.189 --> 00:07:31.669
I mean, the, the concept and the
structure and things is very similar,

00:07:31.669 --> 00:07:36.019
but there's a lot of unique, functional
programming things in Elixir that

00:07:36.109 --> 00:07:38.899
I'm just not very practiced at.

00:07:39.259 --> 00:07:43.789
So there's definitely this constant
reevaluating, how I've done things.

00:07:43.789 --> 00:07:46.339
And then it's like, okay, I can rewrite
to this now because I've learned

00:07:46.549 --> 00:07:48.169
a better technique of doing this.

00:07:48.169 --> 00:07:49.439
So it it's definitely.

00:07:49.474 --> 00:07:51.078
A big learning experience as well.

00:07:51.078 --> 00:07:52.098
It's it's yeah.

00:07:52.128 --> 00:07:56.358
Normally if it was just rails, I wouldn't
really think too much about that, but this

00:07:56.358 --> 00:08:01.608
is definitely a different experience to
be learning a building at the same time.

00:08:01.908 --> 00:08:04.398
Probably not the most efficient, but

00:08:05.453 --> 00:08:07.373
Mario: Yeah, no, but that's good.

00:08:07.403 --> 00:08:11.803
I mean, you're learning and you're
learning with a real, you know, a real

00:08:11.803 --> 00:08:19.043
life application, that, that puts a
lot of things to the test, things that,

00:08:19.073 --> 00:08:19.313
Alan: Right.

00:08:19.523 --> 00:08:23.603
I mean, I, there was a, there's a
discussion on one of the select seven.

00:08:23.629 --> 00:08:27.168
I think yesterday I'm like, you know,
how should I learn a new language?

00:08:27.198 --> 00:08:31.968
And I think we mentioned this before,
you know, I'm, I can't learn a language

00:08:31.998 --> 00:08:36.028
by building what the suggestions were
like, you know, build a parser or build a

00:08:36.078 --> 00:08:36.348
Mario: Yeah,

00:08:36.888 --> 00:08:38.778
Alan: like that has zero.

00:08:38.808 --> 00:08:40.038
Like I'm not gonna learn anything.

00:08:40.068 --> 00:08:41.058
I'm just gonna learn syntax.

00:08:41.058 --> 00:08:45.168
And, you know, I've learned some stuff
and then forget it the next day, because

00:08:45.168 --> 00:08:46.818
it's completely impractical to me.

00:08:46.848 --> 00:08:51.613
And so by building a real thing and, and
actually solving problems that I would

00:08:51.613 --> 00:08:56.586
be solving in a novel process of building
an application is the only way for

00:08:57.766 --> 00:08:58.426
Mario: exactly.

00:08:58.476 --> 00:08:58.656
Alan: me.

00:08:58.686 --> 00:08:58.926
Right.

00:08:59.356 --> 00:08:59.716
Mario: Yup.

00:08:59.896 --> 00:09:00.286
Yup.

00:09:01.416 --> 00:09:04.016
Alan: So all the things I'm
kind of trying to learn from.

00:09:04.946 --> 00:09:05.846
It looks from Phoenix.

00:09:05.846 --> 00:09:11.096
I thinks it's like, okay, I don't know how
to do this, but I need to make it work.

00:09:11.096 --> 00:09:15.086
So it's like, okay, applying
what I know from, you know,

00:09:15.086 --> 00:09:18.386
rails and Ruby, but like the, the
concepts that are quite different.

00:09:18.386 --> 00:09:22.346
So it's like the, there's definitely a
whole process that you need to go through.

00:09:22.346 --> 00:09:25.076
Like, but then it sticks because
you've had to go through that.

00:09:25.076 --> 00:09:25.286
Right.

00:09:25.286 --> 00:09:26.906
It's not, you know,
next time that comes up.

00:09:26.906 --> 00:09:27.956
You're like, I know this.

00:09:28.766 --> 00:09:30.566
Whereas if I was writing a parser, like

00:09:31.786 --> 00:09:32.266
Mario: yeah,

00:09:32.456 --> 00:09:33.866
Alan: going to go in one
ear and out the other road,

00:09:34.466 --> 00:09:34.766
Mario: Yeah.

00:09:34.766 --> 00:09:40.286
I find myself in a similar situation with
the fact that I'm building this app, that

00:09:40.736 --> 00:09:47.336
I've never built anything like it before
with audio, video and recording and all

00:09:47.336 --> 00:09:49.241
through the browser and never built that.

00:09:50.326 --> 00:09:53.936
I've been a developer for a long
time and built a lot of different

00:09:54.236 --> 00:09:57.716
kinds of systems, but I've never
worked on something like this.

00:09:57.716 --> 00:10:00.236
So it it's a lot of firsts for me.

00:10:00.236 --> 00:10:03.716
And I don't sometimes, you
know, it's the same thing.

00:10:03.716 --> 00:10:07.436
I don't know how to do
this, so it has to work.

00:10:07.436 --> 00:10:07.586
I

00:10:07.586 --> 00:10:08.456
have to figure it out.

00:10:09.176 --> 00:10:10.226
So, you know,

00:10:10.755 --> 00:10:16.035
Alan: So have you released a production
app that is entirely yours before?

00:10:16.085 --> 00:10:18.665
Or have you only worked on
stuff as part of teams that has

00:10:18.665 --> 00:10:20.195
been released to the public?

00:10:20.175 --> 00:10:21.900
Mario: Mostly just as part of the teams.

00:10:21.900 --> 00:10:22.410
Yeah.

00:10:22.449 --> 00:10:24.219
That it's entirely mine.

00:10:24.879 --> 00:10:27.279
Some of my side projects.

00:10:27.339 --> 00:10:27.699
Yeah.

00:10:27.699 --> 00:10:29.259
I've launched, you know, before.

00:10:29.769 --> 00:10:30.249
Yeah.

00:10:30.320 --> 00:10:34.899
Like three or four of them before
Fusioncast, but none of them.

00:10:36.344 --> 00:10:39.734
You know, anywhere close
to what fishing cast is.

00:10:39.789 --> 00:10:40.569
But yeah

00:10:40.549 --> 00:10:44.153
Alan: in terms of
complexity or completeness.

00:10:45.124 --> 00:10:51.714
Mario: in terms of complexity, cause I've,
I have launched let's see, two, two or

00:10:51.714 --> 00:10:57.204
three other projects were products that
I worked on that were pretty complete.

00:10:57.384 --> 00:11:02.094
I mean, I could have iterated more on
them and, you know, continue making them

00:11:02.094 --> 00:11:04.944
better, but I did launch them, you know?

00:11:04.931 --> 00:11:08.958
So they were pretty complete at least
good enough for other people to use.

00:11:09.025 --> 00:11:14.340
But yeah, not, not anywhere as near
as Fusioncast in terms of complexity.

00:11:14.406 --> 00:11:15.666
Yeah, yeah.

00:11:15.696 --> 00:11:18.156
Completely different types of projects.

00:11:18.541 --> 00:11:18.781
Alan: Cool.

00:11:18.961 --> 00:11:19.201
Okay.

00:11:19.351 --> 00:11:24.000
So this is, yeah, it's, it's, it
is a big deal launching this one.

00:11:24.037 --> 00:11:28.417
It's, it's, it's much more of
a step up in terms of yeah.

00:11:28.957 --> 00:11:29.677
Does this work?

00:11:29.677 --> 00:11:29.917
And

00:11:30.958 --> 00:11:31.488
Mario: Yeah,

00:11:31.867 --> 00:11:34.609
Alan: as I said, yeah, you know, I
think yours is especially there's

00:11:34.609 --> 00:11:38.449
a lot of moving parts and it's
all got to work perfectly for

00:11:38.449 --> 00:11:39.739
it, for the product to work at.

00:11:39.739 --> 00:11:40.189
All right.

00:11:41.179 --> 00:11:43.549
One piece of that breaks down
that you don't really have

00:11:43.549 --> 00:11:44.689
a working product, right?

00:11:45.104 --> 00:11:45.494
Mario: Yeah.

00:11:45.524 --> 00:11:45.734
Yeah.

00:11:45.734 --> 00:11:50.804
So far the biggest, the biggest challenge
that I had was when a recording wasn't

00:11:50.834 --> 00:11:56.245
working and you remember our first
recording didn't work very well at all.

00:11:56.245 --> 00:12:01.247
And that was kind of scary cause I was
like, it's the core piece of the product.

00:12:01.247 --> 00:12:05.687
And you know, like what's the problem
where, you know, where's the bug.

00:12:05.717 --> 00:12:10.416
And we already talked about that
in the, in a previous session, how

00:12:11.136 --> 00:12:13.566
the problem was in multiple places.

00:12:13.566 --> 00:12:17.886
And it was, you know, logical errors
and, you know, I had bugs and,

00:12:19.236 --> 00:12:21.726
and stuff that I needed to rework.

00:12:21.756 --> 00:12:27.128
And it was, it was one of those where like
it has to work and I have to make it work

00:12:27.158 --> 00:12:29.018
because it's the core part of the product.

00:12:29.018 --> 00:12:32.126
And it took me a couple of weeks
to figure it out and it was

00:12:32.126 --> 00:12:34.316
like, man, it was, it was tough.

00:12:34.397 --> 00:12:34.517
But.

00:12:35.392 --> 00:12:35.662
Yeah.

00:12:35.662 --> 00:12:37.372
Once I figured it out, it was a big

00:12:37.496 --> 00:12:38.936
Alan: that's the core of everything.

00:12:38.936 --> 00:12:39.236
Right.

00:12:39.266 --> 00:12:45.536
But I mean, it's, this is also something
that is very much on my mind am

00:12:45.596 --> 00:12:50.306
releasing this in having been written
in Elixir and Phoenix says I'd not

00:12:50.306 --> 00:12:54.476
used to debugging this in production
because you know, like a rails app,

00:12:54.476 --> 00:12:58.586
I know the pop-ins to expect in terms
of, you know, what, what happens to an

00:12:58.586 --> 00:13:02.546
application when it's been a bunch of
users, all the same particular problems.

00:13:03.052 --> 00:13:03.472
Mario: yeah,

00:13:03.956 --> 00:13:07.258
Alan: The biggest unknown for me in
this is like, I don't know how a an

00:13:07.258 --> 00:13:11.920
Elixir up performs in production and
what to you know, what the problems mean

00:13:12.916 --> 00:13:13.236
Mario: yeah.

00:13:13.270 --> 00:13:14.680
Alan: you get a particular
type of problem.

00:13:14.680 --> 00:13:16.030
It's like, what does that mean?

00:13:16.746 --> 00:13:17.256
Mario: Yeah.

00:13:17.500 --> 00:13:21.460
Alan: like it looks or has a lot of tools
for going in and kind of debugging a live

00:13:21.460 --> 00:13:23.380
system, but I've never used them in anger.

00:13:23.410 --> 00:13:26.560
You know, I, again, I've played them,
played around with them, but never

00:13:26.560 --> 00:13:28.415
to solve a live production problem.

00:13:28.425 --> 00:13:31.175
So that will be an
interesting learning curve.

00:13:31.785 --> 00:13:33.465
Mario: Yeah, definitely.

00:13:33.825 --> 00:13:35.925
Do you write tests with your

00:13:36.335 --> 00:13:40.535
Alan: I, it depends on the
day I'm I should write more.

00:13:42.125 --> 00:13:47.225
So rails, both rails on Phoenix
have a very strong, like baked

00:13:47.225 --> 00:13:49.415
in testing culture and systems.

00:13:49.506 --> 00:13:52.026
My testing habits are not
as good as they should be.

00:13:52.067 --> 00:13:53.687
So I tend to.

00:13:54.887 --> 00:13:59.057
I wrote these days, I write much more
higher level integration system tests.

00:13:59.101 --> 00:14:04.351
I kind of got out of the habit of
writing as many unit tests as I used to.

00:14:04.400 --> 00:14:09.245
Just I find them less and less
useful as time goes on and much

00:14:09.245 --> 00:14:11.045
more of a headache to maintain.

00:14:11.025 --> 00:14:16.211
So if I, the tests I right now
are generally much higher level

00:14:16.208 --> 00:14:17.785
system tests, integration tests.

00:14:17.785 --> 00:14:24.325
So, but yeah, th that's also one of
the problems of developing a thing

00:14:24.355 --> 00:14:28.089
that you're not sure what it's going to
be when you start is it's like, okay,

00:14:28.159 --> 00:14:31.369
do I write all these tests and then
realize I'm building the wrong thing?

00:14:31.399 --> 00:14:36.049
Or do you get further on and then
say, okay, this is now a thing.

00:14:36.049 --> 00:14:36.859
How do I test this?

00:14:36.859 --> 00:14:40.482
So it's it's an ongoing challenge.

00:14:41.122 --> 00:14:41.512
Mario: Yeah.

00:14:41.572 --> 00:14:42.292
I totally get it.

00:14:42.292 --> 00:14:43.282
I feel the same way.

00:14:43.282 --> 00:14:48.387
I, I don't to be honest, I, I haven't
written any tests for Fusioncast, and

00:14:48.447 --> 00:14:53.007
part of it is that, you know, the fact
that it's started as a side project

00:14:53.007 --> 00:14:57.237
and as all my side projects, I don't
know if they're going to go anywhere.

00:14:57.237 --> 00:14:57.837
I don't know.

00:14:57.867 --> 00:15:00.357
So I don't want to be
wasting time writing tests.

00:15:00.867 --> 00:15:01.407
So.

00:15:01.857 --> 00:15:04.197
I don't, I don't do that.

00:15:04.197 --> 00:15:10.484
And and the another part is with
Fusioncast specifically, it's a really

00:15:10.484 --> 00:15:14.024
difficult app to, to write tests

00:15:14.204 --> 00:15:14.764
Alan: Again yet,

00:15:14.764 --> 00:15:16.094
you're almost right, right.

00:15:16.094 --> 00:15:19.634
Yet that there's individual things in
terms of like, you know, merging your

00:15:19.634 --> 00:15:21.254
files and making sure things happen.

00:15:21.254 --> 00:15:24.780
But yet the end to end, I mean, I guess
that's where, you know, like integration

00:15:24.780 --> 00:15:28.920
tests are going to be the, the main thing
for you because it's like, it's got to

00:15:28.920 --> 00:15:32.610
be an end to end process of actually
recording multiple things and making

00:15:32.610 --> 00:15:33.750
sure that joined and everything right.

00:15:34.315 --> 00:15:35.185
Mario: Yeah, exactly.

00:15:35.185 --> 00:15:39.798
So but yeah, a lot of parts of, of an
app, like this are really difficult

00:15:39.798 --> 00:15:44.838
to test because of just the nature
of it, you know, the video connection

00:15:44.838 --> 00:15:49.288
and and you know, multi-part uploading
and all that, all that stuff.

00:15:49.348 --> 00:15:56.488
It's kind of kind of hard, but, but
I, I see if it gets anywhere at some

00:15:56.488 --> 00:16:02.222
point I need to, you know, So-called
back around and and then to some, some

00:16:02.312 --> 00:16:07.022
integration testing and you had a higher
level, but yeah, I feel, I feel the

00:16:07.022 --> 00:16:09.512
same as you in terms of unit testing.

00:16:09.512 --> 00:16:14.012
Cause when I, when I'm, when I'm
coding and you know, as I'm coding, I'm

00:16:14.012 --> 00:16:15.752
testing all the time, I'm testing it.

00:16:15.752 --> 00:16:15.962
Yeah.

00:16:15.962 --> 00:16:19.742
It takes a little longer to manually
test, but I want to see this thing work.

00:16:19.742 --> 00:16:25.617
I there's, to me, there's nothing
more obvious and more what's the word

00:16:25.797 --> 00:16:27.628
I'm looking for reassuring, right?

00:16:27.628 --> 00:16:32.788
To see it actually work and to
actually feel it and see it.

00:16:33.118 --> 00:16:37.378
So as I'm coding, I'm always
testing everything as I go.

00:16:37.378 --> 00:16:39.255
So I feel the same way about unit

00:16:39.364 --> 00:16:40.444
Alan: It's yeah.

00:16:40.444 --> 00:16:44.122
I mean, it's, it's they're important
and there's certain things that are

00:16:44.122 --> 00:16:49.552
worth unit testing, but I've also been
I've, I've come into many projects

00:16:49.552 --> 00:16:54.797
that claim to have, you know, amazingly
complete tests specs and you know,

00:16:54.827 --> 00:16:58.697
like we've got like every line of code,
you know, like 90 something percent

00:16:58.753 --> 00:16:59.923
Mario: 99%

00:16:59.957 --> 00:17:00.767
Alan: Yeah, exactly.

00:17:00.767 --> 00:17:03.947
And then you look at the test
and 90% of the tests, the test

00:17:03.947 --> 00:17:06.017
in the framework, it's theirs.

00:17:06.437 --> 00:17:07.787
It's like, yeah.

00:17:07.787 --> 00:17:08.147
Okay.

00:17:08.177 --> 00:17:11.777
Well rails does that, if you
stating a thing in your car,

00:17:11.957 --> 00:17:13.187
so it's like, okay, does.

00:17:14.102 --> 00:17:17.582
You're making sure that you've done a
thing, but by writing the thing in the

00:17:17.582 --> 00:17:19.472
first place, you've already done that.

00:17:19.472 --> 00:17:26.492
So it's well worth testing, certain things
that you do and making sure that the

00:17:26.552 --> 00:17:28.502
outputs are expected to be the inputs.

00:17:28.502 --> 00:17:31.507
But again, that, that, doesn't
just because you have a high test

00:17:31.507 --> 00:17:34.957
coverage number doesn't necessarily
mean that your tests are worthwhile

00:17:34.957 --> 00:17:36.337
or you're testing the right thing.

00:17:36.337 --> 00:17:40.952
So again, that's, it's difficult
sometimes to to understand that while

00:17:40.952 --> 00:17:44.822
you're writing the code, because you're
in that world of like, well, I'm doing

00:17:44.822 --> 00:17:47.732
this, therefore I need to test that
and I'm doing this and this test that.

00:17:48.002 --> 00:17:49.952
So my very first job out of.

00:17:51.332 --> 00:17:56.543
second, third, third job out of
college was I was doing QA stuff, so

00:17:56.543 --> 00:17:58.343
I was actually doing automated test.

00:17:58.375 --> 00:18:00.953
It was, you know, the company
actually had separate QA department.

00:18:00.963 --> 00:18:03.173
So we had this system, you
know, like literally code

00:18:03.173 --> 00:18:04.433
to get thrown over the wall.

00:18:04.583 --> 00:18:06.743
We'd write automated tests, test it.

00:18:06.800 --> 00:18:08.120
And then we'd file bug reports.

00:18:08.187 --> 00:18:13.479
And it seems ridiculous now that there
was this wall in not literal wall, but

00:18:14.019 --> 00:18:17.019
yeah, a virtual wall that code went over.

00:18:17.019 --> 00:18:20.439
We didn't really speak very
often to the developers.

00:18:20.439 --> 00:18:21.969
It was more of like, you know what?

00:18:21.969 --> 00:18:23.439
We've got this thing, how do we test it?

00:18:24.909 --> 00:18:30.037
And it seems like crazy that that's how
it worked, but that's how it did work.

00:18:30.487 --> 00:18:37.227
And so , I'm reasonably used to trying
to figure out what needs to be testing

00:18:37.227 --> 00:18:38.877
or what the edge cases might be.

00:18:38.937 --> 00:18:43.287
You know, but said, that's not what I see
from a lot of tests that are not a lot of

00:18:43.287 --> 00:18:47.757
applications that I've come into as a, you
know, as a developer, it's like existing

00:18:47.757 --> 00:18:52.047
products and it's like, yeah, this is just
taking a lot of time to run your test.

00:18:52.057 --> 00:18:53.457
It doesn't actually prove anything.

00:18:54.392 --> 00:18:55.442
Mario: Right, right.

00:18:55.682 --> 00:18:56.222
Yeah,

00:18:56.577 --> 00:18:57.207
Alan: it's a topic.

00:18:58.172 --> 00:18:59.462
Mario: yeah, yeah,

00:19:00.417 --> 00:19:02.997
Alan: So yes, but I
need more is the answer,

00:19:03.522 --> 00:19:04.212
Mario: Same here.

00:19:05.232 --> 00:19:05.892
I get it.

00:19:05.924 --> 00:19:07.202
Yeah, I feel the same way,

00:19:08.487 --> 00:19:08.637
Alan: that's

00:19:08.942 --> 00:19:12.682
Mario: but at some point, at
some point, Come back around

00:19:12.682 --> 00:19:14.872
and we'll both come back around

00:19:14.992 --> 00:19:15.352
Alan: For sure.

00:19:15.352 --> 00:19:19.582
I mean, I think, well, yeah, I mean,
we're both in this period where it's

00:19:19.612 --> 00:19:22.852
okay, we've gone through initial
validation of like, yes, this is a

00:19:22.852 --> 00:19:26.842
useful thing, but there's a, there's
still a gap between, is this actually

00:19:26.842 --> 00:19:29.820
a, a revenue producing product third.

00:19:29.820 --> 00:19:33.630
I want to continue investing in and
research, maintaining and supporting

00:19:33.660 --> 00:19:35.370
for an ongoing period of time.

00:19:35.400 --> 00:19:39.870
And it's like, well,
how much do you need to?

00:19:39.900 --> 00:19:41.430
Yeah, but there's a balance that right.

00:19:41.430 --> 00:19:45.450
When it's a project like that, it's not,
you know, a paid-for gig that you have

00:19:45.450 --> 00:19:49.890
to deliver on spec and to a particular
quality is like the quality is to

00:19:49.890 --> 00:19:52.680
your customers not to specification.

00:19:52.710 --> 00:19:52.980
Right.

00:19:53.581 --> 00:19:54.691
Mario: Right, exactly.

00:19:55.711 --> 00:19:55.981
Yep.

00:19:56.810 --> 00:19:57.590
Alan: It's a tricky one.

00:19:58.381 --> 00:19:58.741
Mario: Yeah.

00:19:59.011 --> 00:19:59.371
Yeah,

00:19:59.461 --> 00:20:00.500
Alan: what's new in your app anyway.

00:20:00.620 --> 00:20:01.280
What have you done apart from

00:20:01.280 --> 00:20:01.640
automation?

00:20:02.461 --> 00:20:03.901
Mario: see what else?

00:20:03.959 --> 00:20:06.349
Oh, by the way, if you see that a little.

00:20:07.294 --> 00:20:08.714
Little circle thing on the top,

00:20:08.864 --> 00:20:10.064
Alan: I was going to ask what's XL,

00:20:11.594 --> 00:20:13.474
Mario: that's, that's

00:20:13.574 --> 00:20:15.044
Alan: that a break points for a

00:20:15.384 --> 00:20:15.834
Mario: yeah.

00:20:15.834 --> 00:20:19.644
It's, it's a break point for four
screens that I forgot to remove

00:20:19.644 --> 00:20:21.444
it and I pushed to production.

00:20:21.444 --> 00:20:22.212
So it's there.

00:20:22.752 --> 00:20:24.192
It's not supposed to be there.

00:20:26.001 --> 00:20:26.241
Alan: It was

00:20:26.262 --> 00:20:26.532
Mario: need to

00:20:26.541 --> 00:20:29.541
Alan: how XL was immediately like,
oh, that's a tailwind break point.

00:20:30.192 --> 00:20:31.722
Mario: Yeah, yeah, exactly.

00:20:32.442 --> 00:20:36.222
So I have this little, little
widget thing that I, that I created.

00:20:36.222 --> 00:20:38.322
I actually saw it somewhere.

00:20:38.322 --> 00:20:43.753
Someone had something similar on a blog
post, and so I created my own using

00:20:43.753 --> 00:20:45.951
tailwind and and then it's pretty handy.

00:20:45.951 --> 00:20:46.671
It's pretty useful.

00:20:46.671 --> 00:20:49.851
When you, when you're developing a,
you need to know where you're at, you

00:20:49.851 --> 00:20:51.651
know, resizing, the screen and stuff.

00:20:52.161 --> 00:20:52.251
Yeah.

00:20:53.001 --> 00:20:58.552
And it's it helps you figure out code
and debugging and that kind of thing.

00:20:59.272 --> 00:21:03.772
So I need to put her under a flag,
so it doesn't show up in production.

00:21:05.272 --> 00:21:06.082
I didn't do that.

00:21:06.082 --> 00:21:07.522
So it's just there.

00:21:07.522 --> 00:21:08.752
So ignore that one.

00:21:08.732 --> 00:21:14.159
So I don't know if there's anything else
actually that made it to production.

00:21:14.159 --> 00:21:14.969
That's new.

00:21:14.952 --> 00:21:17.898
Actually let me  let me
try something real quick.

00:21:17.986 --> 00:21:21.341
Let me share a screen and
then let me know what you see.

00:21:21.341 --> 00:21:25.711
Cause I don't know if I made that
into, if that made it into production.

00:21:25.691 --> 00:21:27.932
See, where are my screens here?

00:21:28.415 --> 00:21:29.555
Trying to find something.

00:21:29.837 --> 00:21:31.382
Okay here, some some code.

00:21:31.577 --> 00:21:33.317
Did it show up as a larger

00:21:33.476 --> 00:21:35.096
Alan: pick one and I've
been moved to the corner.

00:21:35.126 --> 00:21:35.276
Yeah.

00:21:35.306 --> 00:21:35.786
Very nice.

00:21:35.801 --> 00:21:36.191
Mario: Okay.

00:21:36.221 --> 00:21:36.521
Okay.

00:21:36.521 --> 00:21:37.991
So you can see that.

00:21:38.066 --> 00:21:39.416
But you can't see me, right?

00:21:39.536 --> 00:21:40.526
Alan: I can see you as well

00:21:40.946 --> 00:21:41.546
Mario: Oh, you can see me.

00:21:41.546 --> 00:21:41.906
Okay.

00:21:42.026 --> 00:21:42.236
Alan: Yep.

00:21:42.986 --> 00:21:45.296
Mario: So it's both of us in
the corner and then the screen.

00:21:45.296 --> 00:21:45.626
Yeah.

00:21:45.986 --> 00:21:46.616
So, okay.

00:21:46.616 --> 00:21:47.966
So that made it into production.

00:21:47.986 --> 00:21:48.166
Alan: Yeah.

00:21:49.756 --> 00:21:50.266
Very nice.

00:21:50.696 --> 00:21:52.076
Mario: So I'm working on that.

00:21:52.196 --> 00:21:55.466
So that way we can still,
everyone can still see each

00:21:55.466 --> 00:21:57.416
other while sharing the screen.

00:21:57.502 --> 00:22:03.682
And the screen is more visible because
it's, it becomes larger, as suppose,

00:22:03.692 --> 00:22:07.852
to before, where if you shared a
screen, it was like a little tiny

00:22:07.852 --> 00:22:09.892
window, just like another participant.

00:22:10.181 --> 00:22:10.541
Alan: Right.

00:22:10.691 --> 00:22:12.611
And you could either Fullscreen it or not.

00:22:12.611 --> 00:22:12.821
Right.

00:22:13.541 --> 00:22:15.731
So you could either see
the full picture or like.

00:22:16.107 --> 00:22:16.617
Mario: Or not.

00:22:16.647 --> 00:22:16.917
Yeah.

00:22:16.917 --> 00:22:18.627
So you can choose to do that.

00:22:18.627 --> 00:22:19.077
So

00:22:19.100 --> 00:22:22.850
Alan: So this also as you mentioned,
this records, the original stream

00:22:22.850 --> 00:22:26.750
of both your, the screen, your
sharing and your video as well.

00:22:26.750 --> 00:22:27.020
Right.

00:22:27.074 --> 00:22:30.854
Mario: It does in the cloud,
it does record everything.

00:22:30.854 --> 00:22:35.924
That's everything that's added into
the room, including the screen-share,

00:22:35.924 --> 00:22:37.274
it gets recorded in the cloud.

00:22:37.724 --> 00:22:41.611
Now in terms of local recording at
the moment, it's not recording the

00:22:41.611 --> 00:22:46.841
screen because it's, it's recording
the participant's video cams

00:22:46.866 --> 00:22:47.616
Alan: right, right, right.

00:22:47.648 --> 00:22:51.417
Mario: So I would have to add
an additional track that records

00:22:51.417 --> 00:22:53.337
the screen at that point.

00:22:53.397 --> 00:22:56.397
So that's, and I think we
might've talked about that.

00:22:56.397 --> 00:22:59.247
So I, I would, I would
add that in the future.

00:22:59.411 --> 00:22:59.591
Alan: right.

00:22:59.591 --> 00:22:59.711
Yeah.

00:22:59.711 --> 00:23:01.031
I remember you talking about that now.

00:23:01.041 --> 00:23:01.271
Yeah.

00:23:01.331 --> 00:23:01.501
Yep.

00:23:01.501 --> 00:23:01.691
Yep.

00:23:02.607 --> 00:23:07.917
Mario: So right now, what I'm working
on is refining that a little bit.

00:23:07.906 --> 00:23:12.523
You might've noticed that I dunno,
in your case, but in my case,

00:23:12.523 --> 00:23:15.163
the screens kind of shifted, so

00:23:15.303 --> 00:23:16.653
Alan: bit of a flicker when it moves it.

00:23:16.683 --> 00:23:16.913
Yeah,

00:23:17.303 --> 00:23:19.103
Mario: yeah, but also the position.

00:23:19.135 --> 00:23:24.385
So my screen used to be on the left and
now after turning off screen sharing,

00:23:24.415 --> 00:23:25.825
I'm on the right and you're on the

00:23:26.184 --> 00:23:27.084
Alan: no, that's the same.

00:23:27.775 --> 00:23:28.135
Mario: Okay.

00:23:28.315 --> 00:23:29.545
So it changed for me.

00:23:29.875 --> 00:23:36.296
So, so I'm working on handling the
screenshare functionality a little better

00:23:36.296 --> 00:23:42.616
now that I, I got some of it going it
kind of basically now I'm working on

00:23:42.730 --> 00:23:48.350
better handling of the layout when you
know screen-sharing is on and when it

00:23:48.470 --> 00:23:53.128
comes off and the screens should stay
in the same position and not shift.

00:23:53.308 --> 00:23:58.998
So basically your own screen should
always be on the top left and everyone

00:23:58.998 --> 00:24:01.158
else should be, you know, after.

00:24:01.437 --> 00:24:01.647
Alan: Yup.

00:24:01.667 --> 00:24:01.827
Yup.

00:24:02.158 --> 00:24:02.508
Mario: Yeah.

00:24:02.538 --> 00:24:08.574
And so another thing that I I'm working
on is changing the number of total

00:24:08.574 --> 00:24:11.814
participants supported from four to six.

00:24:12.234 --> 00:24:17.610
So now it's going to be six, but with
that comes the challenge of layout.

00:24:17.730 --> 00:24:22.950
So because now I have to support
more screens and they have to fit

00:24:22.950 --> 00:24:25.440
and they have to all resize properly.

00:24:25.860 --> 00:24:27.990
So I'm refining that a little bit.

00:24:27.990 --> 00:24:30.780
I think some of that
made it into production.

00:24:32.040 --> 00:24:37.325
When I did the screen-share resizing, but
it needs to be polished a little more.

00:24:37.655 --> 00:24:40.848
And now that I'm supporting six
participants total I'm working on

00:24:40.848 --> 00:24:43.608
that, so that'll be the next update.

00:24:44.207 --> 00:24:44.537
Alan: Very

00:24:44.622 --> 00:24:48.496
Mario: And let's see, what
else did I push oh, the older

00:24:48.496 --> 00:24:50.326
recording, like you saw it now.

00:24:50.326 --> 00:24:54.894
It starts recording automatically and
oh, and the other nice little features

00:24:54.934 --> 00:25:00.694
I'm working on are status updates on the
screen so that you can see who's muted.

00:25:00.694 --> 00:25:04.437
Who's cameras turned off and who's
recording locally and who's not.

00:25:04.437 --> 00:25:07.677
So you'll see a little icons
right below your name, where

00:25:07.677 --> 00:25:09.638
you can see statuses basically.

00:25:09.818 --> 00:25:10.898
Alan: is looking really good.

00:25:12.598 --> 00:25:13.778
It's all really coming together.

00:25:13.778 --> 00:25:16.178
Yeah, you definitely need customers now.

00:25:17.278 --> 00:25:17.518
Mario: Yeah,

00:25:17.618 --> 00:25:18.098
Alan: You're ready.

00:25:18.098 --> 00:25:18.578
You're ready.

00:25:18.578 --> 00:25:19.508
I don't like this.

00:25:19.688 --> 00:25:20.318
There's no excuse

00:25:20.385 --> 00:25:21.598
Mario: I know it's getting there.

00:25:22.407 --> 00:25:25.737
Alan: No seriously, this is a, I mean,
I think you're in the territory of,

00:25:26.007 --> 00:25:31.342
you know, like this is beyond a th
that MVP level of being able to, you

00:25:31.342 --> 00:25:35.932
know, have meaningful users, all of
these are just, you know, very nice

00:25:35.932 --> 00:25:38.932
improvements, but yeah, I think you'll,
you're way beyond that point now of it

00:25:38.932 --> 00:25:41.529
being like you know, pre pre production.

00:25:42.049 --> 00:25:42.499
Mario: Awesome.

00:25:42.499 --> 00:25:43.039
Thank you.

00:25:43.069 --> 00:25:43.489
Thank you.

00:25:43.489 --> 00:25:48.319
I, yeah, I'm trying to trick my
brain into thinking that way,

00:25:48.889 --> 00:25:49.579
Alan: Yeah.

00:25:49.639 --> 00:25:49.969
I mean,

00:25:50.059 --> 00:25:55.162
Mario: for me, for, for me, it's like
a like, oh I'm still, you know, in very

00:25:55.162 --> 00:25:58.312
much beta MVP, it's still not ready.

00:25:58.312 --> 00:26:00.352
You know, in my mind,
my mind goes there, you

00:26:00.412 --> 00:26:00.802
Alan: Of course.

00:26:00.912 --> 00:26:01.252
Yeah.

00:26:01.312 --> 00:26:01.882
Mario: not ready.

00:26:01.882 --> 00:26:02.332
And then, you know,

00:26:03.222 --> 00:26:03.352
Alan: No.

00:26:03.352 --> 00:26:05.892
I mean, I've, I've, I mean,
exactly the same point now.

00:26:05.892 --> 00:26:10.738
So I'm definitely, so my goal was to get
some people on board last week and and

00:26:10.738 --> 00:26:14.752
I didn't especially since the, for the
weekend was I knew that I was, had to

00:26:14.752 --> 00:26:18.262
leave on Friday afternoon, so I'm like,
okay, this is probably not the best time.

00:26:19.552 --> 00:26:19.882
Bye.

00:26:20.782 --> 00:26:21.232
Have fun.

00:26:21.562 --> 00:26:22.222
Yeah, exactly.

00:26:22.222 --> 00:26:22.882
So I'm like, alright.

00:26:23.092 --> 00:26:26.850
And then, so I was, you know, looking
at it fresh you know Sunday night

00:26:26.850 --> 00:26:29.820
when we got back and I'm like, Hey,
what, what do I absolutely need

00:26:29.820 --> 00:26:31.890
to finish in order to get it out?

00:26:31.920 --> 00:26:33.800
And then suddenly you're
like, I really need that.

00:26:33.850 --> 00:26:35.860
I need this and I need to hold on it.

00:26:36.060 --> 00:26:38.190
This is, this is not the point, right?

00:26:38.190 --> 00:26:40.740
This is that they know that
it's pre-release, they know

00:26:40.740 --> 00:26:42.810
that it's early access, beta,
whatever you want to call it.

00:26:42.886 --> 00:26:47.381
And they, they are understanding people.

00:26:47.381 --> 00:26:52.271
So I'm like, but I really just need
to finish at these things before it's

00:26:52.271 --> 00:26:55.601
suitable and it's so yeah, I'm going
through that very much right now.

00:26:55.631 --> 00:26:59.471
And so there's no excuse, really.

00:26:59.462 --> 00:27:03.680
I can think of now to not give them
access like tomorrow or Friday.

00:27:04.010 --> 00:27:08.120
So it's, I'm, I'm kind of, I've
reached that point where I'm

00:27:08.120 --> 00:27:09.320
really running out of excuses.

00:27:12.050 --> 00:27:15.050
I mean, as you, as, you know, th there's
a million things, which I'm like,

00:27:15.050 --> 00:27:18.410
this is completely unsuitable, this is
nowhere near finished, that this isn't

00:27:18.410 --> 00:27:19.850
ready really needs to do these things.

00:27:19.850 --> 00:27:22.620
But I'm reaching the point
now where I'm like, hold on to

00:27:22.710 --> 00:27:23.910
that, that could go on forever.

00:27:23.910 --> 00:27:29.370
And I really just need to accept
that and let people try and.

00:27:31.151 --> 00:27:32.531
Mario: yeah, yeah.

00:27:32.531 --> 00:27:32.951
You should.

00:27:32.981 --> 00:27:34.121
You should definitely.

00:27:34.215 --> 00:27:35.385
Alan: It's the harder it is.

00:27:35.385 --> 00:27:39.375
Literally it's I think is probably the
hardest point of this entire process

00:27:39.375 --> 00:27:41.745
is just like getting over that hurdle.

00:27:41.745 --> 00:27:42.015
Right?

00:27:42.660 --> 00:27:42.900
Mario: yeah.

00:27:43.285 --> 00:27:45.795
Alan: Like, of course there's ongoing
improvements, you know, starting

00:27:45.795 --> 00:27:47.675
the thing is it's not difficult.

00:27:47.685 --> 00:27:48.795
You just start writing code.

00:27:48.795 --> 00:27:48.945
Right.

00:27:48.945 --> 00:27:52.725
You, once you find that, the thing you're
looking for talking to potential customers

00:27:52.725 --> 00:27:57.225
is not that difficult because people seem
to be interested and want to try it out.

00:27:57.525 --> 00:28:00.405
It's just, it's literally
that point of going all right.

00:28:00.615 --> 00:28:01.005
They go

00:28:02.560 --> 00:28:03.100
Mario: Yeah.

00:28:03.645 --> 00:28:04.965
Alan: The hardest part of this process.

00:28:05.390 --> 00:28:05.840
Mario: Yeah.

00:28:07.330 --> 00:28:08.690
One of the, the.

00:28:08.675 --> 00:28:13.277
The last person that I onboarded,
actually, he made a nice comment about

00:28:13.277 --> 00:28:15.527
it and he said, you know it, wow.

00:28:15.557 --> 00:28:19.007
He's like, it looks, it looks so complete.

00:28:19.027 --> 00:28:20.897
It looks so polished already.

00:28:20.897 --> 00:28:24.707
Like it's nowhere when I launched
my product, he's like, it didn't

00:28:24.707 --> 00:28:27.767
look anywhere near what this looks

00:28:27.808 --> 00:28:29.379
Alan: I'm telling you, it
looks, looks fantastic.

00:28:29.439 --> 00:28:29.959
It looks really

00:28:30.119 --> 00:28:31.559
Mario: And thank you.

00:28:32.069 --> 00:28:35.019
And and then he's like,
yeah, just, just let me know.

00:28:35.019 --> 00:28:37.809
As soon as you're ready, he's
like, I'll be your first customer.

00:28:37.809 --> 00:28:38.871
And like, oh, wow.

00:28:38.931 --> 00:28:39.951
You know, thank you.

00:28:40.101 --> 00:28:44.612
But yeah, in my mind, I'm thinking, you
know, it's just yeah, it's not ready yet,

00:28:45.321 --> 00:28:45.621
Alan: no,

00:28:45.962 --> 00:28:46.202
Mario: but

00:28:47.241 --> 00:28:48.891
Alan: every single day
I'm going through this.

00:28:48.959 --> 00:28:51.539
And it's like, I can't,
but it doesn't do this.

00:28:52.259 --> 00:28:58.619
And then I look at some of the similar
products that are not even similar,

00:28:58.619 --> 00:29:00.779
but you know, vaguely related.

00:29:00.989 --> 00:29:04.199
And I'm like, yeah, they only
do like half of what I was

00:29:04.199 --> 00:29:05.459
still like, no, it's not ready.

00:29:05.459 --> 00:29:05.909
It's not ready.

00:29:05.909 --> 00:29:08.069
It's like people seem to be
using that as and paying for it.

00:29:08.069 --> 00:29:09.479
So whole gate, what am I doing here?

00:29:10.609 --> 00:29:10.969
Mario: Yeah.

00:29:12.559 --> 00:29:12.979
Yeah.

00:29:13.039 --> 00:29:16.235
So let's see, what else so
I'm working on those statuses.

00:29:16.445 --> 00:29:18.245
That'll be in pretty soon.

00:29:18.245 --> 00:29:20.045
I'm pretty much done with that.

00:29:20.137 --> 00:29:26.382
And also hoping to also include one
more change to, to the next deployment

00:29:26.382 --> 00:29:33.370
is remote controlled recording in, in
the sense that, you know, the, but I

00:29:33.370 --> 00:29:38.082
want to make it a flag driven feature
so that if you choose to, to use

00:29:38.082 --> 00:29:43.209
it that way the record button won't
be available to other participants

00:29:43.773 --> 00:29:46.173
Alan: Only to the controller.

00:29:46.173 --> 00:29:46.653
Right, right.

00:29:46.729 --> 00:29:47.179
Mario: Yes.

00:29:47.209 --> 00:29:49.879
Only to the host who controls everything.

00:29:49.879 --> 00:29:54.529
And so when they click record and
automatically starts recording

00:29:54.529 --> 00:29:56.839
for everyone in the session.

00:29:56.872 --> 00:30:00.673
And so I pretty much got that working.

00:30:00.673 --> 00:30:04.538
I, I still need to tie a few loose
ends, but it's pretty much working

00:30:04.868 --> 00:30:06.638
where, you know, I can do that.

00:30:06.683 --> 00:30:07.630
Just pretty, pretty much.

00:30:08.309 --> 00:30:13.730
Alan: as I said, these are all nice to
have, but not say not not essential,

00:30:13.910 --> 00:30:17.690
but th if there are any things that
you need to do that is that will

00:30:17.690 --> 00:30:22.760
have a fundamental change to the way
somebody uses it and not an incremental

00:30:22.760 --> 00:30:24.170
improvement, like, for example.

00:30:24.170 --> 00:30:28.337
So one of the things that I desperately
wanted to get in to mind before led

00:30:28.367 --> 00:30:32.833
anybody on it was is, so you basically
have like, be able to check ins

00:30:32.833 --> 00:30:34.153
people, respond, comment, whatever.

00:30:34.363 --> 00:30:35.563
I wanted to be able to show.

00:30:36.398 --> 00:30:39.998
It's like the latest activity, kind of
like an activity feed on your check-in.

00:30:39.998 --> 00:30:42.068
So like somebody commented,
you know, view it.

00:30:42.068 --> 00:30:45.698
And so in order to support that, I
needed to make some database changes

00:30:45.698 --> 00:30:47.318
to make sure that it was populated.

00:30:47.318 --> 00:30:51.158
So the feature is, is simple
right now, but it's there.

00:30:51.207 --> 00:30:54.207
And even there's things that aren't
exposed, but are being recorded

00:30:54.207 --> 00:30:55.767
and logged in the database.

00:30:55.977 --> 00:30:59.667
So I do desperately wanted to get that
in before I like started to let people

00:30:59.667 --> 00:31:02.907
on, even though the feature isn't
finished, that the changes needed to

00:31:02.907 --> 00:31:04.647
be in there to be able to track it.

00:31:04.977 --> 00:31:08.367
So is there anything like that
that's effectively need to be done?

00:31:08.422 --> 00:31:12.341
Like underlying architecture
wise or is it like literally just

00:31:12.491 --> 00:31:14.081
features that are stacking up now,

00:31:15.656 --> 00:31:16.196
Mario: huh?

00:31:16.856 --> 00:31:23.636
Well, in terms of, Hmm, in terms
of architecture, it's more.

00:31:24.351 --> 00:31:29.571
More in the infrastructure layer that
I need to make some improvements.

00:31:29.598 --> 00:31:29.821
Like I

00:31:29.961 --> 00:31:33.051
Alan: So you've, you've got the managing
of files that have been like temporary

00:31:33.051 --> 00:31:37.037
files you know, west of three saved
and cleaned up and all the rest.

00:31:37.037 --> 00:31:42.371
So it feels, it feels to me like that's
probably the bigger barrier to you.

00:31:42.731 --> 00:31:47.441
Longboarding 20 customers than having
a feature that does something for them.

00:31:47.441 --> 00:31:47.681
Right.

00:31:49.181 --> 00:31:50.141
Mario: yes, you're right.

00:31:50.171 --> 00:31:51.011
You're right about that.

00:31:50.991 --> 00:31:55.474
Because yes, the, these are, these
are features that came about from the

00:31:55.474 --> 00:31:59.734
feedback that I got, you know, with
onboarding some, some, some of the people.

00:31:59.734 --> 00:32:04.643
And and so I'm trying to push those
because they're, they're really, really

00:32:05.153 --> 00:32:09.803
nice features that they pointed out
that would be really useful to them.

00:32:10.193 --> 00:32:16.557
So, but, but yeah, they're, they're not
must haves at this point, but in terms of.

00:32:17.302 --> 00:32:24.232
Of changes that, that are preventing
me from opening this up to more people,

00:32:24.772 --> 00:32:28.702
I would say it's more infrastructure
changes that I need to apply.

00:32:28.694 --> 00:32:32.894
You know, bring in a load balancer
and have at least two servers behind

00:32:32.894 --> 00:32:37.434
a load balancer for redundancy and
you know, little improvements to maybe

00:32:37.494 --> 00:32:43.240
caching and more, more redundancy
at the database level as well.

00:32:43.240 --> 00:32:45.130
You know, right now I
just have one database.

00:32:45.160 --> 00:32:46.230
There's no replication.

00:32:46.240 --> 00:32:47.200
There's none of that.

00:32:47.680 --> 00:32:53.470
So, so I need to make that stronger
before I can feel comfortable

00:32:53.870 --> 00:32:55.210
bringing in more people.

00:32:55.570 --> 00:33:02.210
So that w I think that that would be
it in terms of roadblocking, you know,

00:33:02.930 --> 00:33:06.620
things, but in terms of features,
I think, I think you're right.

00:33:06.770 --> 00:33:07.520
It's pretty much.

00:33:08.780 --> 00:33:09.290
Ready.

00:33:09.290 --> 00:33:12.920
And these other things are
more just enhancements.

00:33:13.039 --> 00:33:13.279
Alan: Right.

00:33:13.369 --> 00:33:13.849
Exactly.

00:33:14.269 --> 00:33:14.479
Yeah.

00:33:14.489 --> 00:33:14.629
Yeah.

00:33:14.869 --> 00:33:20.539
So I, I think that if I was in your shoes,
that would probably be my priority list.

00:33:20.749 --> 00:33:24.769
Like the order in terms of like,
get those, those fundamental changes

00:33:24.769 --> 00:33:28.459
in, then there's nothing effectively
stopping you saying, okay, like an icon

00:33:28.459 --> 00:33:32.569
on board, 10 extra people, I reckon,
you know, like start to work through,

00:33:32.599 --> 00:33:35.276
whoever wants to go on it on cost,
then you actually have to build them.

00:33:37.976 --> 00:33:39.766
So that, that would be my

00:33:39.936 --> 00:33:40.536
Mario: Yeah.

00:33:40.686 --> 00:33:40.926
Yeah.

00:33:40.926 --> 00:33:41.556
I agree.

00:33:41.616 --> 00:33:42.006
Yeah.

00:33:42.036 --> 00:33:43.656
No, thanks for pointing that out.

00:33:43.686 --> 00:33:44.166
That's

00:33:45.446 --> 00:33:48.626
Alan: I, again, I it's easy
for me to say that it's much

00:33:48.726 --> 00:33:49.656
Mario: totally appreciate that.

00:33:50.076 --> 00:33:53.246
Alan: it's much easier to critique
somebody else than it is yourself.

00:33:53.246 --> 00:33:53.456
Right?

00:33:55.126 --> 00:33:57.796
Mario: Right, right.

00:33:57.796 --> 00:33:59.236
No, but that's totally true.

00:33:59.236 --> 00:34:00.516
And no, I really appreciate it.

00:34:00.546 --> 00:34:00.846
Cause.

00:34:00.973 --> 00:34:01.333
It.

00:34:01.513 --> 00:34:01.813
Yeah.

00:34:01.880 --> 00:34:07.565
And I think I need to really buckle
down and and, and work towards that

00:34:07.565 --> 00:34:09.035
and make those changes instead.

00:34:09.035 --> 00:34:13.410
And and kind of postponed these
other enhancements for later.

00:34:14.050 --> 00:34:16.930
Alan: That would, it would definitely,
but the thing is about them as well.

00:34:16.930 --> 00:34:21.160
There, I mean, I went through something
similar, you know, a few weeks ago when

00:34:21.160 --> 00:34:24.760
I set up all the AWS stuff, you know,
and I know, again, I was similar to you.

00:34:24.760 --> 00:34:25.510
I was running on.

00:34:26.500 --> 00:34:29.819
You know, mini stuff like that, you
know, the free database layer and you

00:34:29.819 --> 00:34:33.509
know, like all the freebies to, to
just turn development, work and market.

00:34:33.509 --> 00:34:35.519
Like, if I let somebody
on, I can't do this.

00:34:35.519 --> 00:34:38.879
So it's ripping off the band-aid is
just like, I've got to go through

00:34:39.939 --> 00:34:42.359
Saturday of setting up infrastructure.

00:34:42.359 --> 00:34:45.957
And during that, so I did that and, you
know, again, I made some, some changes

00:34:45.957 --> 00:34:49.587
to the deployments that the database,
all of the DNS stuff and everything.

00:34:49.587 --> 00:34:53.007
So now it's that set up how I
wanted to, and now it's like, oh,

00:34:53.007 --> 00:34:54.897
I've done that I can just deploy.

00:34:54.897 --> 00:34:57.567
And I can, it does remove one barrier.

00:34:57.567 --> 00:35:00.875
That is it always feels like, wow, but
I can't do that because of these things.

00:35:00.875 --> 00:35:04.475
And yes, I I'm just trying to work
through all of those mentally, but what's

00:35:04.475 --> 00:35:06.695
to stop me just giving out a, a code.

00:35:08.375 --> 00:35:08.765
So

00:35:09.666 --> 00:35:11.346
Mario: Removing those excuses,

00:35:11.455 --> 00:35:14.905
Alan: yeah, literally it's
it really is, is just working

00:35:14.905 --> 00:35:15.955
through those in your mind.

00:35:16.049 --> 00:35:17.159
Crossing them off one by one.

00:35:17.879 --> 00:35:19.979
So I'm going to get to the point
where I'm like, I've got no

00:35:19.979 --> 00:35:23.339
excuses anymore, which is, yeah.

00:35:24.134 --> 00:35:24.724
Mario: yeah,

00:35:24.779 --> 00:35:27.469
Alan: that's not an easy, not
an easy thing to accept, but

00:35:27.512 --> 00:35:27.912
Mario: yeah,

00:35:28.486 --> 00:35:31.936
Alan: I mean, it's, it's exciting,
but terrifying I say is the hardest

00:35:31.966 --> 00:35:36.509
and the most I think it's, you know,
we're all terrified of external input.

00:35:36.509 --> 00:35:36.749
Right?

00:35:38.159 --> 00:35:39.929
We need that, but it's terrifying.

00:35:40.309 --> 00:35:45.252
Mario: it's hard to get over that,
but yeah, I think in terms of

00:35:45.300 --> 00:35:47.280
changes, I think that's it for now.

00:35:47.280 --> 00:35:48.720
That's, that's what I have.

00:35:48.750 --> 00:35:49.920
That's what I'm working on.

00:35:49.955 --> 00:35:50.188
Yeah.

00:35:50.218 --> 00:35:50.998
How about you?

00:35:51.328 --> 00:35:53.278
What about DotPlan?

00:35:54.538 --> 00:35:54.928
Alan: Yeah.

00:35:54.928 --> 00:36:00.404
So I, I kinda, I did a whole once I'd
got those cha say I wanted to get this

00:36:00.404 --> 00:36:03.659
like activity tracking and things and
just to make that feasible, because

00:36:03.659 --> 00:36:07.285
again, I'd hacked in a very very early
way, just actually just hitting a

00:36:07.285 --> 00:36:12.625
database just for like, manually like
the brute force way of calculating that.

00:36:12.625 --> 00:36:15.545
And it's like that isn't going
to scale it's, it's fine.

00:36:15.545 --> 00:36:18.305
Just to, to see how it looks
and to see how it feels.

00:36:18.305 --> 00:36:21.395
And to, for me to understand
what I need to show and as, okay.

00:36:21.395 --> 00:36:24.215
I need to actually make this
something that will, that will

00:36:24.215 --> 00:36:26.135
work, you know, performance wise.

00:36:26.195 --> 00:36:29.505
Long-term so I did
those changes last week.

00:36:29.608 --> 00:36:33.388
And now that's in, yeah, it's
just a case of like, okay.

00:36:34.228 --> 00:36:38.177
I started to run through it as a new user
and, you know, came up with another list

00:36:38.177 --> 00:36:39.737
of 20 things that are like, ah, okay.

00:36:39.737 --> 00:36:41.027
Like to address those.

00:36:41.108 --> 00:36:45.395
So there's, most of those are
now addressed this, the biggest.

00:36:46.055 --> 00:36:51.373
I think which is not code related,
but is, is very I'm trying to figure

00:36:51.373 --> 00:36:57.403
out the what to do about it is as far
as the onboarding process goes, it's,

00:36:57.403 --> 00:36:58.963
it's, it's pretty straightforward.

00:36:58.963 --> 00:37:02.833
You know, it's just SaaS, you
sign up, you can add team members

00:37:02.833 --> 00:37:04.663
if you want, or at that later.

00:37:05.413 --> 00:37:08.983
And then it says we haven't made any
plans, click here to, to make some plans.

00:37:09.433 --> 00:37:15.333
And it's literally that explaining
that, you know, there's a little bit,

00:37:15.373 --> 00:37:19.363
little bit of text above each one saying
what you should do, but it's the fact

00:37:19.393 --> 00:37:25.459
that I need like some, I, I always,
I never really liked that whole thing

00:37:25.459 --> 00:37:28.849
with the, you know, like the tool tip
thing that moves around and says, you

00:37:28.849 --> 00:37:30.169
should do this, and this does that.

00:37:30.199 --> 00:37:31.399
And it's like, just go away.

00:37:31.399 --> 00:37:31.669
I'll figure.

00:37:31.724 --> 00:37:35.444
But I almost feel like I kind
of need something like that now.

00:37:35.684 --> 00:37:38.774
So the, the idea is, you know, you
can fill in your to-do list and then

00:37:38.774 --> 00:37:40.064
you can literally check them off.

00:37:40.097 --> 00:37:46.332
It looking at it fresh as a a
first user, it's not obvious that.

00:37:47.142 --> 00:37:51.264
You can click a like the empty
check mark to make it checked,

00:37:51.294 --> 00:37:52.644
to move it, to make it done.

00:37:52.914 --> 00:37:56.214
So the moving things around on
the page doesn't feel obvious.

00:37:56.278 --> 00:37:59.818
And again, it's something that I've
been too close to to be able to see it.

00:38:00.148 --> 00:38:04.881
And I think just going through the,
the first user the, the fresh user

00:38:04.941 --> 00:38:07.761
experience, it doesn't feel obvious to me.

00:38:07.761 --> 00:38:13.491
So I'm trying to figure out whether
I should do some kind of a tool tip

00:38:13.491 --> 00:38:16.821
thing that hovers over it and says,
you can do this and then click that.

00:38:17.181 --> 00:38:20.751
Or whether I should do like a
video or some text description.

00:38:21.081 --> 00:38:24.261
And I don't feel, I have
a clear answer there.

00:38:24.300 --> 00:38:29.331
And so regarding the onboarding
thing So I've got like three

00:38:29.331 --> 00:38:31.101
people, like, absolutely.

00:38:31.641 --> 00:38:33.771
I know I'm going to
use these people first.

00:38:33.807 --> 00:38:37.437
And I know one of them is like, just
send me the email, I'll figure it out.

00:38:37.467 --> 00:38:40.037
Like, I don't need to walk through it.

00:38:40.317 --> 00:38:42.567
Just, just send me the email and,
you know, I'll figure it out.

00:38:42.627 --> 00:38:47.937
And I'm like, so I, I, it would be
easier just to talk them through

00:38:47.937 --> 00:38:50.667
it, but they're like, no, no, no,
just, just let, let me figure it out.

00:38:51.117 --> 00:38:52.137
And I'm like, okay.

00:38:52.137 --> 00:38:55.797
So how do I make it so that it's obvious
to them, without them coming back to

00:38:55.797 --> 00:38:56.817
me and saying, well, what do I do?

00:38:56.817 --> 00:38:59.127
Because I really don't.

00:38:59.240 --> 00:38:59.780
Don't want that.

00:38:59.842 --> 00:39:04.482
So I dunno if you have any
suggestions I'm all ears

00:39:05.352 --> 00:39:06.162
Mario: Oh man.

00:39:06.402 --> 00:39:06.942
Okay.

00:39:06.994 --> 00:39:07.564
Let's see.

00:39:07.733 --> 00:39:09.563
So they just want to do it on their own

00:39:09.830 --> 00:39:10.070
Alan: right?

00:39:10.100 --> 00:39:13.351
The main three ways I I'm considering.

00:39:14.141 --> 00:39:18.481
Literally doing like a, a mini in the
corner video, which says like, you know,

00:39:19.351 --> 00:39:24.784
how to how to use the planning page in
you know, it could be literally 20 second

00:39:24.804 --> 00:39:26.334
video that could probably cover it all.

00:39:26.314 --> 00:39:28.907
Just embedded in the corner,
close it to make it go away.

00:39:28.904 --> 00:39:34.166
Or like a tool tip type thing, or have
more of a like a, like a banner that

00:39:34.166 --> 00:39:38.156
says, you know, kind of an instructional
banner that you can just dismiss entirely.

00:39:38.426 --> 00:39:40.856
So those are the three
things that I'm considering.

00:39:40.930 --> 00:39:42.550
And I maybe do all three.

00:39:42.550 --> 00:39:43.330
I don't know.

00:39:45.631 --> 00:39:50.594
Mario: Well, I think you should not do
all three because that would take longer.

00:39:50.623 --> 00:39:51.103
So, okay.

00:39:51.973 --> 00:39:53.683
So it's just to one of those.

00:39:53.732 --> 00:39:57.885
And I would think if you, so if you,
if you do the video, if you go the

00:39:57.885 --> 00:40:03.765
video route, do you have a good place
in your UI where you can place that?

00:40:04.155 --> 00:40:05.565
Would it, would it mess with your

00:40:05.684 --> 00:40:06.044
Alan: right?

00:40:06.434 --> 00:40:07.724
The bottom right of the screen.

00:40:07.754 --> 00:40:11.174
If they're looking on desktop on
mobile, then all bets are off.

00:40:11.206 --> 00:40:14.626
On desktop, the bottom right of
the culinary is kind of unused.

00:40:14.703 --> 00:40:16.443
It's, there's a big blank
space in the bottom, right?

00:40:16.653 --> 00:40:20.850
So that, that is a perfect spot to
put a you know, an eight size video

00:40:20.850 --> 00:40:24.450
of that's just like click here and
I'll explain how to use this page.

00:40:24.630 --> 00:40:27.900
So that's one of the reasons the
video is kind of tempting because

00:40:27.900 --> 00:40:32.550
it's like it would, it would also
give, make a use for that blank space.

00:40:33.300 --> 00:40:37.050
It gives it something to do kind
of balances the page out on the.

00:40:38.240 --> 00:40:42.080
Mario: yeah, I think you should go with
the video route because it's, it's,

00:40:42.680 --> 00:40:46.798
you know a picture's worth a thousand
words and a video is like even more

00:40:46.798 --> 00:40:52.488
so and if you just, you know, it would
be relatively simple to create, right.

00:40:52.547 --> 00:40:52.787
Alan: Yeah.

00:40:52.907 --> 00:40:53.867
Oh, completely.

00:40:53.957 --> 00:40:54.087
Yeah.

00:40:54.087 --> 00:40:54.317
Yep.

00:40:54.678 --> 00:40:56.868
Mario: you know, the, the, the steps and

00:40:56.901 --> 00:40:57.231
Alan: I'll put

00:40:57.231 --> 00:40:57.591
like, you

00:40:57.591 --> 00:41:00.291
know, Burton, captions on it and
stuff as well as, so it's clear.

00:41:00.351 --> 00:41:00.681
Yeah.

00:41:02.412 --> 00:41:05.262
Mario: and that's something
that you, you can, that that

00:41:05.262 --> 00:41:07.182
would be useful going forward.

00:41:07.182 --> 00:41:13.056
You know it's not just for this one person
or, you know, it's not just for this phase

00:41:13.056 --> 00:41:17.496
of the product, but you could just make
it a permanent feature of the product

00:41:17.496 --> 00:41:22.258
have having these little screencast
explainers built, baked into the product.

00:41:22.243 --> 00:41:22.317
Alan: Okay.

00:41:23.173 --> 00:41:26.413
Mario: The only challenge with that
is that if the product changes later

00:41:26.413 --> 00:41:30.553
on, then you kind of have to rerecord
the screencast because the UI changes

00:41:30.553 --> 00:41:35.023
or the way the feature works changes.

00:41:35.113 --> 00:41:40.538
But but I think it's the clearest,
you know, most straight away to,

00:41:40.538 --> 00:41:43.568
to explain and show someone how it

00:41:43.908 --> 00:41:48.378
Alan: of, yeah, I was kind of li
I was hoping, you'd say simply

00:41:48.378 --> 00:41:52.188
because it feels to me like the
most personal version, right.

00:41:52.278 --> 00:41:58.158
It's again, I think I've said before a
big part of, one of the things I want to

00:41:58.158 --> 00:42:03.501
do with this is make it a more like kind
of homely personal product, not just a.

00:42:04.065 --> 00:42:04.785
Corporation.

00:42:04.843 --> 00:42:06.595
So that kind of plays to that advantage.

00:42:06.595 --> 00:42:06.835
Right?

00:42:06.865 --> 00:42:09.924
It's it's me explaining how
to use it and if you have any

00:42:09.924 --> 00:42:11.544
feedback, then they can subscribe.

00:42:11.606 --> 00:42:16.447
So it's, and it also, yeah, as you
said, show is better than tell.

00:42:16.447 --> 00:42:16.777
Right?

00:42:16.777 --> 00:42:22.117
So it's, and if they really aren't
interested, then just dismiss it and

00:42:22.117 --> 00:42:24.697
it's gone and they can figure it out.

00:42:25.828 --> 00:42:26.218
Mario: yeah.

00:42:26.218 --> 00:42:27.508
I think that's the way to go.

00:42:27.827 --> 00:42:33.007
Alan: I, yeah, I was kind of, as I said, I
don't really like those, those hover boxes

00:42:33.007 --> 00:42:34.657
that move around, I'm just like, go away.

00:42:34.667 --> 00:42:36.157
I'm like, let me figure this out.

00:42:36.217 --> 00:42:40.567
So I know that if it creates that
and a video of like, I don't care

00:42:40.567 --> 00:42:42.217
about if it's there, I can watch it.

00:42:42.217 --> 00:42:43.627
If I don't want to watch
it, I don't have to.

00:42:43.627 --> 00:42:45.707
So it feels less intrusive even.

00:42:46.647 --> 00:42:50.152
It takes up more screen real
estate it's it it's louder.

00:42:50.185 --> 00:42:50.665
Potentially.

00:42:50.682 --> 00:42:55.679
So yeah, I guess even though it,
it feels heavier way of doing it.

00:42:55.829 --> 00:42:59.279
It feels to me like it might be
the right way, so I'm glad you

00:42:59.529 --> 00:43:06.512
Mario: yeah, And it's, yeah, I feel the
same way about those little those hover

00:43:06.542 --> 00:43:09.212
boxes or whatever that move around the UI.

00:43:09.212 --> 00:43:10.412
I don't really like them.

00:43:10.412 --> 00:43:12.992
And it's even worse when
they don't give you a way out

00:43:13.192 --> 00:43:13.402
Alan: right.

00:43:13.522 --> 00:43:14.092
Exactly.

00:43:14.132 --> 00:43:15.382
Like just go away.

00:43:15.452 --> 00:43:18.992
Mario: through each, each one of them,
you have to, you know, keep going.

00:43:19.022 --> 00:43:21.122
You can't bail out of those.

00:43:21.122 --> 00:43:24.392
So yeah, I'm not a big
fan of those either.

00:43:25.132 --> 00:43:25.372
Alan: Yep.

00:43:25.482 --> 00:43:27.262
I couldn't understand why.

00:43:27.262 --> 00:43:30.652
I mean, there's a lot of, it's
interesting going through this process.

00:43:30.739 --> 00:43:34.189
You know, it's a long time
since I launched my own product

00:43:34.219 --> 00:43:37.729
as I've done it before, but it
was, you know, a long time ago.

00:43:38.179 --> 00:43:45.619
So there's a lot of things now in the
current state of web applications that I

00:43:45.619 --> 00:43:48.439
felt more like aah that I hate this trend.

00:43:48.439 --> 00:43:52.546
I don't like what, you know, what certain
new aspects, whether it's almost like, you

00:43:52.546 --> 00:43:56.240
know, the flat humans in terms of landing
page stuff, whether it's these hover

00:43:56.340 --> 00:43:57.990
states, things, all this kind of stuff.

00:43:58.059 --> 00:44:02.919
And it's funny going through the
process of now having to do all of these

00:44:02.919 --> 00:44:08.454
things myself, So many of them, I now
know why they made those decisions.

00:44:09.714 --> 00:44:09.924
I don't know.

00:44:09.924 --> 00:44:14.484
Probably I, I'm not not saying I
like them either, but you almost

00:44:14.574 --> 00:44:16.453
end up at the same end point, right?

00:44:16.633 --> 00:44:19.303
You're like, well, you know, I don't,
I don't want to put photos on my

00:44:19.303 --> 00:44:23.413
page because that's very, it's very,
like, people have different reactions

00:44:23.413 --> 00:44:26.473
to different things and you know,
you have to, there's a lot more to

00:44:26.473 --> 00:44:27.943
consider if you go in the photo route.

00:44:27.943 --> 00:44:28.153
Right.

00:44:28.136 --> 00:44:31.541
And then you're like, yeah, but I don't
want to do like, cartoons feels a little

00:44:31.661 --> 00:44:37.001
not right yet until I have more confidence
in my branding and all the rest.

00:44:37.031 --> 00:44:39.611
So, and you're willing to stand up at
this point while you're like, wait,

00:44:39.721 --> 00:44:43.421
it's a purple, flat picture of a pure
Mohnish kind of thing that'll do.

00:44:43.631 --> 00:44:46.811
And it's like, ah, I've, I've fallen
into the same trap as everybody else.

00:44:47.711 --> 00:44:50.531
And the same thing with these,
these hover things as well.

00:44:51.526 --> 00:44:53.586
I don't want to be heavy handed.

00:44:53.586 --> 00:44:55.376
I don't want text on the
screen, but I need to tell

00:44:55.376 --> 00:44:56.696
them that they should do this.

00:44:56.876 --> 00:44:57.546
How do I do that?

00:44:57.746 --> 00:45:00.596
Well, if I just did that and I'm
like, no, no, no, what am I doing?

00:45:01.436 --> 00:45:04.706
So, yeah, I'm kind of,
it's, it's revealing.

00:45:04.833 --> 00:45:08.253
But I also don't want to fall into
the same trap as anybody else.

00:45:08.271 --> 00:45:09.171
Not, not trap.

00:45:09.166 --> 00:45:11.566
I don't want to default to what
everybody else doing without

00:45:11.566 --> 00:45:12.796
understanding why I'm doing it.

00:45:12.796 --> 00:45:13.006
Right.

00:45:13.807 --> 00:45:14.647
Mario: yeah, yeah.

00:45:14.677 --> 00:45:15.637
That's exactly it.

00:45:16.777 --> 00:45:20.827
But yeah, dude, I think if
you go the screencast route

00:45:21.187 --> 00:45:22.177
that would know what else.

00:45:22.836 --> 00:45:23.986
Alan: and I can always change it.

00:45:23.986 --> 00:45:24.136
Right.

00:45:24.136 --> 00:45:26.746
I can, I can always say be the AB
test these things in the future,

00:45:26.746 --> 00:45:31.756
but for this initial pass, it feels
like a, an obvious route, right?

00:45:31.756 --> 00:45:34.636
Well, if you don't want to spend
half an hour on a call with

00:45:34.636 --> 00:45:35.806
me, watch this video instead,

00:45:37.067 --> 00:45:37.307
Mario: Yeah.

00:45:37.576 --> 00:45:40.186
Alan: and it's only 20 seconds long and
it'll tell you what you need to know.

00:45:40.186 --> 00:45:44.656
So it, it feels like a
nice way of doing it to me.

00:45:44.977 --> 00:45:45.367
Mario: yeah,

00:45:46.031 --> 00:45:46.481
Alan: Thank you for

00:45:46.747 --> 00:45:47.617
Mario: yeah, definitely.

00:45:48.191 --> 00:45:50.231
Alan: affirmation of my, my feelings,

00:45:50.937 --> 00:45:51.207
Mario: yeah.

00:45:51.207 --> 00:45:55.482
There's a part of Fusioncast where I need
to do something similar to that because

00:45:55.482 --> 00:46:02.925
of the nature of of the problem which is
when you first go into a Fusioncast URL

00:46:02.925 --> 00:46:07.005
and, you know, you're trying to connect
or whatever, or basically any, any part

00:46:07.005 --> 00:46:11.385
of the app where it needs access to the
camera and the microphone, a browser

00:46:11.385 --> 00:46:15.825
has to allow the app access to those

00:46:15.954 --> 00:46:16.344
Alan: of course.

00:46:16.425 --> 00:46:17.055
Mario: devices.

00:46:17.115 --> 00:46:17.445
Right.

00:46:17.865 --> 00:46:23.185
So, and then for privacy reasons,
the user has to sort of see

00:46:23.185 --> 00:46:25.659
that and, and allow access.

00:46:25.683 --> 00:46:30.727
And so, but if there is if the user
selects decline or I mean, if they

00:46:30.727 --> 00:46:32.917
say like block to block access, right.

00:46:32.984 --> 00:46:38.757
At some point if they select to
block, it goes into a mode where

00:46:38.847 --> 00:46:40.647
it won't show you that anymore.

00:46:40.827 --> 00:46:41.637
It'll just,

00:46:41.661 --> 00:46:42.771
Alan: you can't re get it right?

00:46:43.577 --> 00:46:44.657
Mario: Like you can't regret it.

00:46:44.667 --> 00:46:47.277
So like the browser is already
blocking it and that's it.

00:46:47.547 --> 00:46:52.160
And so you can't see that prompt
anymore, but the way I did it with

00:46:52.160 --> 00:46:56.710
Fusioncast, it detects the fact
that it's gotten into that mode and

00:46:56.710 --> 00:47:01.060
it, and it brings up a dialog box
that says your browser is blocking.

00:47:01.060 --> 00:47:03.210
Like, there's nothing I can do about it.

00:47:03.220 --> 00:47:03.820
Basically.

00:47:04.060 --> 00:47:05.260
You need to unblock it.

00:47:05.800 --> 00:47:10.987
And so the way to unblock that it's
different for different browsers.

00:47:11.407 --> 00:47:12.037
So

00:47:12.561 --> 00:47:13.131
Alan: You have to go into

00:47:13.147 --> 00:47:14.017
Mario: have a, like a.

00:47:16.022 --> 00:47:19.802
Yeah, but there's a way to access it
on the, on the bar, on the address

00:47:19.802 --> 00:47:21.692
bar, that little icon right next to it.

00:47:21.692 --> 00:47:22.802
You can click on that.

00:47:22.860 --> 00:47:28.030
But if, you've blocked it completely,
then in some browsers that doesn't even

00:47:28.030 --> 00:47:32.770
work, you have to go to a little icon
that's to the right of the address bar

00:47:33.460 --> 00:47:36.970
where it shows like a little camera
or whatever, or a little microphone,

00:47:36.970 --> 00:47:38.260
and then you have to go in there.

00:47:38.560 --> 00:47:44.230
So it depends on the browser and it
might even depend on the platform.

00:47:44.230 --> 00:47:47.320
I need to do more research on
that, but right now I just have

00:47:47.320 --> 00:47:52.690
a sort of a temporary, you know,
instructions at that point telling

00:47:52.690 --> 00:47:54.430
people how to get out of that mode.

00:47:54.854 --> 00:47:56.444
Alan: That's not a block of
a lunch, you know, that you

00:47:56.444 --> 00:47:57.494
can't use that as an excuse.

00:47:58.140 --> 00:47:59.850
Mario: Yeah, no, no, no, no, not at all.

00:48:00.344 --> 00:48:00.884
You're right.

00:48:00.884 --> 00:48:01.364
You're right.

00:48:03.054 --> 00:48:06.802
No, no, I'm, I'm not gonna, I'm not
gonna hold back because of that, but,

00:48:07.702 --> 00:48:13.267
but I that's an area where a screencast
would be perfect to just show the person

00:48:13.267 --> 00:48:15.607
based on the browser they're using.

00:48:16.286 --> 00:48:18.956
Alan: yeah, it's probably
easier for you to make as well.

00:48:18.956 --> 00:48:19.196
Right.

00:48:19.226 --> 00:48:22.556
Because trying to explain where to
click is a nightmare, but one of the

00:48:22.556 --> 00:48:25.856
reasons that this is, this is quite a
nice solution for mine as well, because

00:48:25.856 --> 00:48:27.266
it's like go to here and click here.

00:48:28.707 --> 00:48:29.157
Mario: yeah,

00:48:29.786 --> 00:48:29.906
Alan: it's

00:48:29.917 --> 00:48:30.947
Mario: yeah, much better.

00:48:31.936 --> 00:48:32.086
Alan: Nice

00:48:32.117 --> 00:48:33.557
Mario: So yeah.

00:48:33.857 --> 00:48:34.337
What else?

00:48:34.383 --> 00:48:35.103
What else do you have?

00:48:35.223 --> 00:48:36.303
What else have you been working on?

00:48:37.562 --> 00:48:41.342
Alan: again, lots of small things, but
as I say, the big thing is just like

00:48:41.342 --> 00:48:43.532
what I've got, I've got to get this out.

00:48:43.632 --> 00:48:48.002
So it's anything that's stopping
me from giving a link to somebody,

00:48:48.002 --> 00:48:50.282
making sure all of the email
invitations are working for it.

00:48:50.282 --> 00:48:53.582
So when you invite teammates to it, do you
know making sure that signup process is

00:48:53.672 --> 00:48:55.102
fine, which again, this is not something.

00:48:55.952 --> 00:48:59.372
Hit very often because
it's, I don't do that.

00:48:59.372 --> 00:48:59.702
Right.

00:49:00.772 --> 00:49:03.062
So that's one of the
parts which I'm like okay.

00:49:03.112 --> 00:49:04.802
I tried it again and I'm
like, I need to look at this.

00:49:04.808 --> 00:49:05.841
Just improve it a little bit.

00:49:05.841 --> 00:49:09.624
So there's and again, setting
up, I had to set up move to

00:49:09.954 --> 00:49:12.445
AWS email service from mine.

00:49:12.445 --> 00:49:13.825
I had to get approved by them.

00:49:13.855 --> 00:49:16.615
So you have to explain to them
why you're going to send lots of

00:49:16.615 --> 00:49:18.685
emails, hopefully lots of emails.

00:49:18.752 --> 00:49:20.746
So it, it, all of those things take time.

00:49:20.746 --> 00:49:20.986
Right.

00:49:21.016 --> 00:49:24.586
And it's a say it, those
are legitimate blockers.

00:49:24.586 --> 00:49:27.556
It's like, well, I don't want to be
on a temporary free email service that

00:49:27.556 --> 00:49:31.846
doesn't work outside of my own domain,
so I need, need to make that happen.

00:49:31.876 --> 00:49:33.459
And so those things are all done now.

00:49:33.459 --> 00:49:38.656
So yeah, it's literally when
I run out of excuses in terms

00:49:38.656 --> 00:49:40.336
of application development.

00:49:40.876 --> 00:49:43.812
So yeah, so I, I'm literally
just going through and trying

00:49:43.812 --> 00:49:44.772
to make sure all of that.

00:49:44.773 --> 00:49:48.455
The, the first run stuff is
working, which is how I hit this.

00:49:48.544 --> 00:49:53.464
Because everything else, as far
as daily use, it's all fine.

00:49:53.484 --> 00:49:55.837
Of course there's a million things,
which I don't like about it and want

00:49:55.837 --> 00:50:00.277
to improve, but none of them are
good enough excuses to not release.

00:50:01.427 --> 00:50:01.787
Mario: Yeah.

00:50:02.137 --> 00:50:05.407
Alan: So, yeah, it's, it's just finishing
off this, this onboarding stuff really now

00:50:05.407 --> 00:50:07.417
is the thing which I want to get finished.

00:50:07.627 --> 00:50:07.837
So

00:50:08.637 --> 00:50:09.087
Mario: okay.

00:50:09.217 --> 00:50:13.657
Alan: for, for this tonight
and tomorrow is, is okay.

00:50:14.197 --> 00:50:14.617
That's it?

00:50:14.617 --> 00:50:15.547
Those are, those are good enough.

00:50:16.157 --> 00:50:19.177
Mario: So any onboarding this
week, any plans to onboard?

00:50:19.717 --> 00:50:24.067
Alan: hopefully if I can get this by
making a video, then I've got zero.

00:50:24.067 --> 00:50:25.697
Excuse, cause I don't
have to schedule anything.

00:50:25.717 --> 00:50:25.927
Right.

00:50:27.127 --> 00:50:27.367
Mario: Yeah.

00:50:28.492 --> 00:50:30.382
Alan: So if, if I can do that, then yeah.

00:50:30.382 --> 00:50:34.076
I'm going to send out a couple to the
people that I've that I know don't

00:50:34.076 --> 00:50:38.276
want to schedule an interview so I
can definitely get them on board.

00:50:38.306 --> 00:50:43.144
And if it seems okay with them, I might
even be feel brave enough to send out

00:50:43.144 --> 00:50:46.534
to a few of those that I wasn't going
to onboard yet, just because it's over,

00:50:47.224 --> 00:50:48.544
you know, in, for penny and for pound.

00:50:48.544 --> 00:50:48.754
Right.

00:50:49.655 --> 00:50:49.985
Mario: Yeah.

00:50:50.255 --> 00:50:50.675
Yeah.

00:50:52.415 --> 00:50:56.705
Well, I say you do it as long
as you don't have any braking,

00:50:57.275 --> 00:50:59.375
braking features anywhere.

00:51:00.034 --> 00:51:01.414
Alan: That's that part of, yeah.

00:51:01.414 --> 00:51:05.704
I mean, one of the nice things about
this, because I've avoided all real

00:51:05.704 --> 00:51:10.414
external dependencies, even to the point
of late, I didn't allow a photo uploading.

00:51:11.104 --> 00:51:15.964
The obvious one is, you know, you want
a photo for your avatar, but I even

00:51:16.025 --> 00:51:20.004
punted on that for now, just cause I'm
like, I, I won't know, external uploading

00:51:20.004 --> 00:51:24.888
is always a pain and yeah, yours is
entirely uploading, which is like crazy.

00:51:27.483 --> 00:51:30.183
So I even punted on that
lumpy, I'll do that later.

00:51:30.403 --> 00:51:32.403
There's nothing that doesn't
stop you from using it.

00:51:32.403 --> 00:51:32.943
It doesn't stop.

00:51:32.943 --> 00:51:37.860
So I use the email address now to
generate a hex CSS color you know, like a

00:51:37.860 --> 00:51:39.270
pastel color based on the email address.

00:51:39.270 --> 00:51:41.340
So everybody gets a unique
color that stays with them.

00:51:41.323 --> 00:51:44.034
But a, you can't upload
your own photo yet.

00:51:44.075 --> 00:51:45.771
And I'm like, just
like, ah, that can wait.

00:51:45.801 --> 00:51:46.971
That's not, not blocking.

00:51:46.971 --> 00:51:51.211
So you know, one of the nice things
about this is there's no external APIs

00:51:51.211 --> 00:51:54.583
that it hits there's no apart from
the obvious, like email and things.

00:51:54.639 --> 00:51:56.999
So yeah, that's, that's quite nice.

00:51:57.029 --> 00:51:59.349
So there's nothing
breaking, everything works.

00:51:59.379 --> 00:52:01.719
It's literally just like, is it clear?

00:52:01.719 --> 00:52:05.822
What they need to do is, is, is there
nothing that they're going to the

00:52:05.832 --> 00:52:09.432
obvious first things they're going
to do, they all are obvious, right?

00:52:09.473 --> 00:52:09.653
Yeah.

00:52:09.653 --> 00:52:13.673
As I said, it's getting to the point
where I'm like, I can't can't delay

00:52:13.673 --> 00:52:17.783
this any longer now if nothing else,
because my wife keeps asking me every

00:52:17.783 --> 00:52:22.499
day you got any did anybody yet, I just

00:52:22.525 --> 00:52:23.695
Mario: When are you going to launch?

00:52:25.015 --> 00:52:26.125
When are you going to launch?

00:52:26.399 --> 00:52:26.849
Alan: Exactly.

00:52:26.849 --> 00:52:32.309
And so I'm like, if nothing else,
then I've got to say yes to that.

00:52:32.309 --> 00:52:32.819
Like it's done.

00:52:33.155 --> 00:52:33.515
Mario: Yeah.

00:52:35.915 --> 00:52:36.305
All right.

00:52:36.305 --> 00:52:37.265
Well, good luck with that.

00:52:37.739 --> 00:52:39.359
Alan: So that's the plan
for this week anyway.

00:52:39.389 --> 00:52:41.699
So that's hopefully fingers crossed.

00:52:42.089 --> 00:52:42.449
Cool.

00:52:43.379 --> 00:52:43.529
Nice.

00:52:43.539 --> 00:52:43.719
All

00:52:45.065 --> 00:52:45.575
Mario: All right.

00:52:45.575 --> 00:52:45.935
I think

00:52:45.925 --> 00:52:46.515
Alan: Should I wrap it up?

00:52:46.525 --> 00:52:46.795
And

00:52:46.826 --> 00:52:48.956
Mario: don't have anything
else, we can wrap it up here.

00:52:49.710 --> 00:52:50.100
Alan: cool.