I need to know everything, who in the what in the where I need everything. Trust me, I hear what you're saying, but I like it's new what you're telling me, I'm Curious George. I happen to Porsche five and a horse. I'm ready for war. I'm coming for froze to turn to a ghost. I need to know everything,
that they're not real relationships, that it's all about the sex, um, that polyamorous people are greedy. They don't really, can't make up their minds. They want it all, um, and that we're filling voids with people so like you're just, you're never going to get enough. That's why you want other people.
You muted yourself again.
You know, it ain't a real zoom party until you talk while you're muted. So it's party now. Black Dragon. Same questions, what are some of the biggest misconceptions about polyamory that you've heard?
Ray was hit him on the nail. You know what? I mean? Like all about sex, this is a way to cheat without cheating, especially being bi, you know, they'll say, Oh, you're just wanting everybody all the time. And I'm just, like, actually, quite picky. But okay, go off and what else. Uh, yeah, it was basically the major like, sex and cheating type and, and, oh, I could never do this. I'm so jealous, and I'm like, Okay, well, that's your own personal issue that you need to work through, you know? But that's, that's May, that is mostly what I've experienced, is the sex, the cheating, the you can't decide you want everybody you know, are you sure that you're not breaking up a home? Do they know? Have you communicated? Have you communicated,
right? Poppy, some of those it sounds like, resonate with you, because I see you over there, like, which ones resonate with you and which are you don't have to tell me all one, because probably all of them. Are there any other ones? Additionally that you would add,
um, the idea that I'm constantly fucking someone like that, excuse me, I don't know if that was a no,
that's totally fine.
Okay, so the idea that I'm constantly in bed with people and, no, I'm, you know, like black dragon saying very picky about who it is that I share my body with. The idea that I've had people break up with me because family members told them that they would get sick being with me because of the idea that I was constantly going to be back and forth with different people, and so, yeah, that's a huge, huge misconception, is that there's a lot of sex that happens and no a lot of polyamorous dynamics. Have varied connections, and and I have a lot of Platonic connections, so that's one that hits big for
me. And it's so interesting that that piece about like you're always having sex. I feel like the thing that is actually always happening is you're always unpacking, debriefing, checking in. I feel like that's probably, probably right, absolutely
level of therapy that happens in Paul Hammer's connections, that I don't think really happens with monogamy, but I'll save that for later.
There's a lot of temperature checking. There's always a lot of like, coming back to the table and, like, reworking things. And I always say it's the over communication for me, or, like, the over commitment, because it's like, you really, like, you have to remember, these are real relationships. It's like, times 234, depending on, like, how much you can handle. And so you're not only responsible for your emotions, but other people's emotions. And to move in the like World of ethicalness and and informed consent, it's a lot of conversation and checking in to make sure like what you're experiencing they're experiencing, and and it's a lot that goes with a lot of emotional intelligence that has that happen as well.
Absolutely. Jay earlier, folks were sharing, what what were some of the biggest misconceptions about polyamory that they've heard? What are some of yours?
So. Hopefully you guys can hear me better now. Great. I joined with my phone. I think some of the biggest, biggest misconceptions that I've heard of is I'm selfish, or I'm only doing this for sex. And I didn't, you know, I didn't hear what other people's responses were, because it just got in. But oddly, I've had less sex as a polyamorous woman than when I was monogamous. So that is a really big misconception, along with the fact that there are, you know, asexual people, or people who are on the asexual spectrum that are polyamorous. I'm on a spectrum as well. I'm demisexual. So sex really isn't a big thing for me, even though I like it with certain people, when I get that connection. So it's, it's definitely not a big thing for me. And that's a big misconception that it's all about sex. Yeah,
people put people put that physical labor, but they don't talk really about the emotional and mental labor of managing multiple relationships with all of these misconceptions. Black Dragon, how do you date? How do you interact with people and introduce yourself in that in that space?
So dating seems like I'm running a race, and it's like, the ones that they pass batons to, and it's just like, Oh, all right. It's like, Oh no, this isn't my stop. This is somebody, okay. This isn't the person. Oh, you're not with. Oh, okay, never mind. All right, so when it comes down to, like, telling, you know, whoever I'm dating, like, I go straight out the gate, I'm polyamorous. Is that okay with you? Is that okay? That's not That's not okay. Like, and then most of the time that people are not familiar with polyamory, I have to explain exactly what that is to me, and then find out what their ideal dynamic would be, you know? And so it's a lot of explanation, it's a lot of understanding and communication. Sometimes I can, like, weed out a lot of people when they're just like, Yeah, you know, I I've always wanted to have sex with, like, multiple people. That's not what I'm on, sweetie. That's not what I'm on. If you want to go, nobody's stopping you, like, go go out there, not here, but out there. And so for me, I usually try to find other people who have identified as being polyamorous, unless you're on, like dating apps and things like that, where, you know, I'll be like, put in my bio, or, you know, I'll talk to people and explain like I mentioned. You know, it's not, it's not the hardest thing to communicate, because I feel like polyamory has allowed me to communicate way more effectively and thoroughly than I've ever done in a relationship before, in, like, a monogamous type of relationship before.
Yeah, I always say your communication skills are trash, until you realm of polyamory, because it's based on, like, being clear and concise, and you have to define everything, and you have to give context. And you have to give context in the sense of like what it means to you, and so like the level of communication that goes into it, you don't typically find that in monogamy, because there's already an assumed assumption to what a relationship is, to what cheating is to to how things work. And over here, we kind of, I say, we curate our own experiences, and so we define what that looks like to us as individuals, for each individual. And so, yeah, you're so bad at communicating when you first enter into this role, you're you're not as good as you think you
are. Right? I ended up, go ahead.
Oh,
go ahead. I was saying, I ended up, like, I was talking to this one person, and I was like, alright, well, you know, I'm polyamorous, so I want to, you know, establish, you know, foundation before we bring in other people, you know. And so they were like, Yeah, you know, it's fine, like, you can pick the girl, and I'm just, like, you just you just missed. You just missed all the points that I said earlier about what it means to me to be the polyamorous and you went straight to I'm bi. I want another girl like you just missed everything. So
no, um, I want to go over here to the chat and then come back to this conversation, a person asked, is there an aspect of balance with polyamory? Do you try to spend time with your partners equally? I'm a hand that over to Poppy to answer.
So that's actually interesting that I'm being asked about this, because that is something that I. Um, so I practice a form of poly that is more akin to relationship anarchy, and it's basically it, for me, it's basically a getting where you fit in. Kind of thing is the idea that I am mostly in a primary dynamic with myself. I give a good amount of time to myself. And when it comes to the anarchy aspect, I don't view one relationship as more important than the other, although I really don't think that there is a way to be equal as far as the time that you spend with certain partners, I think that when it comes to spending time with partners, it's necessary to give them what they need, and if you can't meet them at the level, if you can't meet them at their level, then it's really not worth being with that person, because you're you're not really going to be serving a purpose. So for me, I I make sure to ask them, you know, clearly communicate. You know what it is that you know they need. How it is that they see me filling that that space for them and just letting them know, Hey, I may not be able to spend as much time with you as you're needing. Is that something that you would be okay with? And yeah, that's usually how I work with that. There's really no way to give partners equal time because not everybody needs the same thing.
Yeah, that's a interesting statement in and of itself. I wanted to say hi to the folks who are watching. This is the counter narrative show. So I want to say hi Chimera. Hi Elroy, Hi, Chris. Nathan. Dejanae Ray, Tasha. Tasha says, I think it depends on the dynamics of each relationship. So with that, it sounds like it's largely a new concept. You end up having to explain it to folks, right, or a new concept in some communities. Let's say that because I shared with I shared with Ray earlier, how I was talking to a friend of mine, and I won't say her name, because I don't want her to feel uncomfortable, embarrassed about saying this. And I told her about the show topic black and polyamorous, and she was like, black people do that. So tell me, have you experienced a sort of coming out with being polyamorous? And also, what is that conversation like? If anyone can answer that, that wants to there
is a thing of like, coming out as polyamorous, right? Because it's considered like an other identity, and the assumed way to practice love is monogamy. So anytime you don't do anything that's that you have to like, come out. And really the basis of that, like, Does your family know? Do your friends know? Like, do the people important to you know? Or are you kind of, like in the shadows being a secret squirrel with it, in the sense of that, I didn't really come out. I'm, I'm like, the hippie dippie. I do everything so different. So when I tell my family about things, they're like, Oh yeah, you always on some other shit. It was just like, sun's out, it's Monday. What else are you doing with your life? Like nothing surprising, but for other people, it definitely is a little harder, especially those who are maybe like in traditional marriages, have kids, they come from, like religious families and backgrounds like being polyamorous definitely has more weight to it, and maybe even something to like lose, quote, unquote to it. Yeah, depends on who you are.
I found some other folks nodding their head Yes. Have you have want to share your experience around that topic of just like sharing with a new person that you're polyamorous?
So for me.
So for me, I didn't actually really come out. I'm really, really out about my sexuality on social media and polyamory, the only people that I actually probably came out to quote, unquote, were my children. And they are. They're adults now, and they're just like, okay, What? What? What else is new? Like, they know my sexuality. They know, you know, I have partners across Japan. Surgery, and that's not a really big deal for them. I have told a couple of my my family members that they're just like, whatever, so it's not a really big thing for me, or wasn't really an issue, per se. But I know how that can be an issue for certain people, and I know people who are polyamorous now or who are within the LGBTQ community who can't come out because of children and religion and things like that. So
how are other folks who are parents? Are either of you parents, and if you are, how are you how do you navigate that conversation and that dynamic with your children.
For me, I definitely to answer the previous question about the coming out. Yeah, I think for me, it was definitely a little bit more texture because I was involved in a marriage, and coming out to my partner that was really difficult. That was really difficult because we were in a monogamous dynamic for so long, and coming out to them at that time, not really having words for what it was that I was feeling, but knowing that it was more than just the idea of, okay, let's bring a third person in kind of idea. It was the No, this is really where I feel most at home. So that was, that was a pretty difficult thing, because it was kind of construed initially as the idea of, Oh, so you're wanting a girlfriend, and it's like, more than that, more than that. It's just, you know where I am. And so when that happened, and leading into what it was that you just asked, it was the idea of being honest with not only myself but my partner, being honest with my children. That you know is not that I feel any differently about, you know about their father. It was the idea that, okay, this is, you know, the opening up. This is the idea of sharing, you know, space with more people being more loving, more caring, having more friends around, people that I enjoy spending time with, and that it was not going to change the structure of our family. So that was it actually went over a lot better than I thought it would. Kids are very understanding, if you really just, you know, present it to them in, you know, proper context. And so they were okay with it. They understood it. They were like, oh, okay, that's your friend. Okay. You really like your friend, okay? And that was pretty much it. And so kids are definitely a lot more understanding than given credit for.
Does anyone else want to respond to that? And also, I'm noticing folks are nodding their head in agreement. Feel free to respond to each other and be very conversational if you if something is resonating with you. But does anyone else want to respond to that, like if you're a parent, and if so, how are you navigating that space with your children.
I'm not a parent, but I wanted to add that children understand the concept of parents loving other people, because step parents exist, and because sometimes their parents aren't actually married, and their parents have other significant others, so the concept of having more than one partner and introducing it to your child isn't as far left as people may think it is because they're kind of already they know that. They know that other people exist because step parents and other partners. I think it's probably more so like, how do you explain it about me as your parent, but again, not a parent. So I don't want to, like overstep that too much,
right? I'm, I'm not a parent as well, um, and, but I know that, you know, every time I talk to, you know, like my niece or something like that, and I'm explaining, you know, sexuality to her and things like that. So she because she'll interact with people, you know, just like at a pizza store or something like that, like she'll, she'll meet somebody and so, you know, it's, it's a little bit easier to explain to. Child, when you give them, like a scenario with some Barbies or something, you know, it's like, Barbie, Ken, they're together. Ken, another Barbie, like they're all happening together, like how you feel and so, you know, that's, that's when it's time for that conversation, like, I feel as though that would be the, you know, the easiest way for me to, you know, convey that I'm polyamorous to my knees. But so far, I've only had to explain, like, you know, sexuality and things like that in different types. So
speaking of polyamory and sexuality, Jay, do you feel like polyamory is your orientation or is it situational?
So I definitely feel like polyamory is my orientation. I feel like even if I am not in poly relationships, I'm still polyamorous. I don't see myself going back to monogamy. I know for a fact that monogamy didn't work, and that's the reason, one of the reasons, why I became polyamorous. So it's definitely just who I am through and through, as well as my sexuality,
I agree,
definitely. I agree for sure. No, because being that, I think Poppy Diablo, you know, saying like they are also, you know, they're Sagittarius, you know, rising. I'm a sad as well. And so it's, you know, most people think Sagittarius, are, you know, committed, but I'm committed. Listen to me. I am committed. When I am in a relationship, I am committed, yeah, but I also know that when I'm building that fountain, like, straight out the gate, I'm telling you I'm polyamorous through our relationship, I'm still telling you like I'm polyamorous. I still have a desire to be with this woman or this person you know, or this human you know, I mean, and so I'm I'm still saying all of this information and letting them know like we may seem monogamous at this point, you know what I mean, but we're not, well, I'm not right, so hopefully we're not together.
Yes, the veneer is very real.
Yeah, it's just, it's for me, it's just part of who I am. Like, I'm black when I'm around white people, I'm queer, even if I'm in a perceived straight relationship, just I'm polyamorous, even if I have one partner or no partners, the same way you're monogamous if you're single, right? You just you, I just am, like, this is just who I am, and it's that simple,
yeah? Holly in the dark. It's Polly all the time.
How many times have Have you all watched a movie and see someone in love with two different people and tearing their hair out about it? And thought, why don't you just be I we
were just watching the other night.
What movie was it? Um, I don't
know. It was some kind of indie flick. I can't even remember the name, but we were all watching it, me and a group of friends who all identify as queer, and it was just a wonderful queer ass time. And this film was just, it was just this monogamous, or at least this, this man who was monogamous and was dating this guy who kept cheating on him. And it's like, Okay, listen, why is this person not being forward about the fact that they're poly? Why is this person just not going to, you know, give them full disclosure about the fact that, okay, I don't want to be monogamous with you. And this other person is sitting here on the other hand, you know, tearing their hair out about it, and crying and you know, really the only problem was, is that the person who was cheating was poly and didn't really want to tell the monogamous partner, because they were afraid that they would leave them.
Would you? Would you still consider them. So here's a two part question. One, what do you see as the difference between polyamory and cheating? And is it polyamory? If there's if there's not full disclosure,
it's so there, it'll probably be divided. It, depending on who you ask, right? Because there's the ethical part of polyamory, and then there's people who do it unethically. And so for me, if you're going to be unethical, then you're not even doing it, right? But there's people who say, Oh, they're still doing it like, you just like people say, Nola darling from she's got to have it. I don't really think she's that. I love Nola. I don't think she was that ethical. I'll be honest like she wasn't really doing but I wouldn't say she wasn't not polyamorous. I would say she just wasn't ethical. And so the ethics in it is what distinguishes distinguishes it between cheating. It's clear, open, honest, informed consent. Everybody is aware of what's going on, even if you do da dt, which is, don't ask, don't tell you're still consenting to that. And that's even split in the community, I personally don't like da dt. I don't think it's ethical even if a person consents to it, because can't consent to something you don't know, but if everyone involved doesn't have informed consent, then it's not ethical and and, you know, what's the point? But also, there's a big misconception that you can't be cheated on in polyamory, and you can. So there's that like you can even like you, I could be ethical and I'd have an unethical partner who's cheating on me, and it's like, That's dumb. There's no reason for this.
I definitely agree. Um, it's the cheating part. Like, okay? Because when Poppy was just discussing the movie, I was like, Yeah, you know, but I've talked to people who are also polyamorous, and they'll be like, you know, they're cheat. And I'm just like, but for what? Like, why are you cheating? Literally, just say it and they have that da What were you saying? Don't ask. Don't tell Da, DT type of vibe going on that whole situation. And for me, I don't, you know, I don't like it, like I need it. We're all in a group chat, sweetie, start. You know, I don't want no drama. I don't need no karma, like and everything else. Mary J said, but you know, when it comes down to like polyamory and cheating, I feel as though, when you start bringing in like ethics, when you start bringing that communication, and you say from the beginning, like, Hey, these are the things that I feel are cheating. If you're out here sleeping with people and haven't told me, I don't care if you just met the person 30 minutes ago and you're vibing sexually with them, let me know. But I also feel like you could cheat on people in in more than a sexual way, in an emotional way. You could really cheat your whole relationship, your whole dynamic, by not being open and communicate like, especially emotionally like, for me, emotional cheating is is just as detrimental as you know, not having that communication with actual physical cheating.
Oh, I say cheating and polyamory is anything that goes against the agreements, exactly. That's what our
relationships are, that because, yeah, I being in that, that marriage dynamic that I was in, and having come to that space of, you know, disclosing that I was polyamorous, but, you know, asking for us to open into a more polyamorous type dynamic? Yeah, absolutely, absolutely. There is definitely cheating that can happen in a polyamorous dynamic. I'm definitely gonna, not going to go into detail because, you know, not trying to out motherfuckers. But I mean, at the same time some motherfuckers need to be exposed. So that's for a
different day. Poppy, a whole deep dive, right as a whole another
but yes, it is absolutely entirely possible.
Yeah, that?
Yeah, it's absolutely entirely possible, because it's just going against the agreements, whatever it is that you know, you've agreed upon in your dynamic, if one person goes against it without, you know, checking in with the other person, renegotiating, you know, these boundaries, then, yeah, cheating is there? It happens
people get hurt.
What are some of the So, from some of the questions that people have sent in to me, they're, they're very strongly fear based. I'm just going to say that from the gate, what if the person likes the other person better than me? Is one question, and another one was connected to jealousy. How do you manage your emotions and jealousy? So I'm start with Jay. Jay. What if my person? My person? What if. The person I'm seeing likes the other person better than they like me.
So I have had to deal with that, and I want to go back to a little bit about the communication that you and that you have to learn when you're polyamorous. I used to think I was a very mature person and I could communicate, but coming into polyamory, I just realized I did not know anything about communication. Had a situation recently where and I'm going to be really blank about it, so I won't talk and give too many details, but had a situation with a partner who didn't like me as much as their other partner. For me, on a personal level, I had to work within myself to understand that that's not my issue, everybody's gonna like somebody different and in a different way. I can be in love with one of my partners and just deeply care about another one of my partners. And basically, you got to get out of your own head and realize that's going to happen. Everybody's not going to see you the same way, and the internal work that I've had to do surrounding that type of issue, because it can also bring up issues of like insecurity and things like that. So you really have to work through things like that, and not to get on a tangent about insecurity, but for me, on a personal level, I've had to work through that if somebody likes the other person more than me, and since most of my relationships, they don't intersect or anything like that, most of my partners don't know each other, but I've communicated to both from you know, all of my partners about such and such other person, and they know that I have certain types of feelings for this person, different than this other person, like I was in love with my girlfriend, but one of my male partners, you know, I care about him deeply. So that's going to happen, and that doesn't change the fact that we all care about each other, if that makes any sense. So, like, I'm so, like, I'm, like, jabbering on, but no,
a pie. It's not a pie. Like, just because you love one person doesn't mean you love the other one less. Like, I always say, like friendships, you have at least more than one close friend, most people and you have they have different access to you, and those relationships coexist without competition. You know, you have the Frank you bust the windows out of somebody car with the educational friend, the turn up friend, the disc friend. And you don't love any of them any less, but they play different roles, they have different names, and it's the same romantically. It's like if you have two parents or parent figures, you don't love your one parent figure less than you love the other one, just because there's two. So it's the same. I My love for you doesn't take away from someone else because it's infinite. It's not it's not a finite resource,
right? It's like a different connection and closeness, but you love the same people. That's those two different people the same way, like you can be close to your mom and not be close to your dad, but you still love them the same way, and that's how it is with partner. So,
I mean, enter that from the other angle too. The What if your person, what if your partner likes someone else more than they like you? So for me, I I've dealt with that before, where I've had partners who really, really liked me but didn't really like the other people that I was with, and that's always kind of a a touchy thing, because you really want everyone to be able to, you know, just get along. Because, I mean, who wants to see their friends beefing number one. I mean, you want to have, you know, the people that you love, get along, at the very least, you know, be civil with each other. So sometimes it's very difficult when I do have other partners that feel a certain kind of way about the other people that I'm with. I've not had that issue here recently because of the places that I've gotten in with myself because of the diving that I've had to do internally, and the people that I attract when I'm being, you know, when I'm aligned, when I'm centered within myself. And so I don't have that issue so much any. More. But I know that during that period of time where I was experiencing that it was definitely a place where I was still kind of like push and pull, figuring out things for myself. So definitely knowing yourself is a great way to attract people that are more well aligned and going to get along with each other. Yeah,
at the start of it, we folks shared a lot of different terms. And in talking with Ray earlier off camera, we were just sharing how there's a lot of there's a lot of terminology. And not that these dynamics don't exist elsewhere. We just develop terminology so that we could be really more clear, like more exacting with our language, with what we what we mean when we say things. But it can be a lot, right? It's like vocabulary soup. What are some of the resources you tapped into when you when you realize you know what, I'm polyamorous. What are some of the resources that you tapped into to get more informed on that and to kind of explore that? I will start with Ray, since I brought you up.
So the first thing I did was try to find groups on Facebook. So I'm in like 5011 different Facebook groups. And then from there, the groups, depending on how they're they're run, they have information. They have links to books to documents, to PDFs to essays. And then you also get to just get that hands on information from being, like, immersed into the community, the post, the how people respond, what they say, how they think, you know, grain of salt, all of it. Um, then you go into like, reading. I recently was given a Google Doc List of polyamorous resources that I will give to anyone if you hit me up with my DM, Hey, can I get the Google Doc? I'll send it to you. I haven't gone through all of it, so, you know, use it to your own thing. But just learning, researching, finding your community, and kind of lurking a little bit in the Facebook groups and the Instagram groups, and reading the posts, reading all of that, is really the best way to kind of figure out what you want to do and where you want to go with it. And I just want to double back briefly, because you mentioned jealousy. I think the difference for jealousy for polyamorous people, and I'll mainly speak for me, as we embrace it, we don't act like it doesn't exist, and we don't act like it's the boogeyman that is this thing that is so scary, and because I'm jealous, my relationship is going to crumble. Um, it's more like, what's up? I'm jealous. Like, oh, hey, how you doing? You? You're here today, okay? Like, and you kind of embraced it. You're like, I'm feeling jealous. And if you are at a level where you can communicate, you like, Hey, I'm jealous because this, that and the third, you know, and your partner, if you have a you know, a partner who validates you will validate those emotions, and you'll be able to come to some sort of resolution onto how to work with that versus, I found like for myself, with monogamy, jealousy was like this crippling thing, and it was like, you're not supposed to feel jealous, because that's unhealthy or or some people like, jealousy is good. It means you want your partner, it means you love me. And it's like, yikes. I just want to double back to that.
I definitely agree, because this is the thing, when it comes down to jealousy, like Diablo Poppy was saying, you know, it when you start healing yourself, that's what really helps, you know, set up those great connections like it's not, it's not a problem with you healing and then finding a partner as well. But when you're healing, you're able to identify like, you know what? I'm jealous. Well, dang, why am I jealous? Let's get down to the nitty gritty. Do I need more time with my partner? Am I feeling neglected? Am I feeling as though I'm not getting something out of this relationship. Is that the reason why I'm feeling that jealousy? Um, and like, Ray was saying, like, I you know you don't need to, like, run away from jealousy once you start, like, looking internally and trying to figure out, like, why am I feeling this way? And letting that emotion pass and and realizing, like, don't beat yourself up, because you get one little inkling, especially being in a monogamous relationship for long periods of time or most of your life, and you, like, Mirae said, you get taught like, Oh, that is, you know, you have a little bit of jealousy, you know, make them feel like you know you're going to miss them, or something like that. Something that sort of gives you feeds into insecurities that you probably never had in the first place, you know, and so that's important. But the other question was, what was it? What was your other question? Again,
some of the resources you went to to help him. You,
right? So the resources I used, like Ray mentioned, you know, Facebook, Facebook was great, but the the thing that got me into polyamory was when I was in school, I was pursuing a degree to be a sexual therapist, and so learning about relationships, learning about dynamics, and then I found and came across polyamory that was like, what's that? What is that like? What is that I need to know, because it's resonating in my soul, but I don't know why. I don't know why I still stayed in monogamous relationships. Um, you know, anyways. Um, so continuing. So I was, you know, learning, like, reading those, like scholarly art articles, and, you know, Googling everything I could, being everything I could, and getting, then recently, I was getting into Facebook groups, trying to figure out, you know, what else other dynamics there are, like, maybe I'm tripping, maybe I'm not going about this the best way. Because when you go about it one way that you think you know everything, then you end up, like, being sidetracked and realizing, like, Oh, this is more. This is the dynamic that would probably fit your lifestyle, more than dynamic that you've been trying to establish the most of the time. So let's say I've been trying to establish a B. But honestly, I really wouldn't care if my partner, you know, had somebody else. Maybe an N is probably the best thing, you know what I mean, for me. So I would use those resources I'm also, you know, like, I've talked to a lot of people on clubhouse as well. So clubhouse has helped, you know, really learn everything from, like, marriage, married people's type of standpoint. Like, it's a book of information from people's actual perspectives and experiences. So that's the resources I use. Awesome.
Thank you for sharing that I am I came into it on a more spiritual track. I was connected to a couple of people in the conscious community on Facebook, putting that in air quotes, because, you know, consciousness is its own conversation. But yeah, I came into it from that tangent, because I was already connected to so many different communities at that time, I was already I had a foot in as being queer, identified with the LGBT community. And then I also had, you know, a foot indoor with the kink and BDSM community. So I was already at the intersection of a few different things, and all of these things intersect in a lot of ways. And so through being in those communities, I kind of found the vocabulary for what it was that I was experiencing. And so my resources were definitely, you know, like they were saying local groups, or even those that are on Facebook, reading, reading, reading. Reading is Fundamental. My Amazon Kindle was full of books on polyamory. I wanted to know exactly what it was that I was up against and exactly how to articulate what it was that I was feeling. And so I just dove head first into reading, and, you know, like they were saying, you know, research, Google, everything and question, don't be afraid to question. That's, I think the biggest part of it is that a lot of people are afraid to question these feelings. And they bury them, they stuff them. So question,
thank you for that, Jay, what are some of the resources you tapped into?
So
for me, because I came into polyamory, actually through kink and the DSM, I immediately started doing a lot of research. For me, even though I'm in Facebook groups, I I've only gotten into a couple recently, but for me, as on a personal level, I prefer to read things about polyamory because they also help me to learn some of the things that I've experienced, and put those into different types of words that I didn't understand before. Just learning about other people's polyamory also helped me. But on a personal level, just the research and the reading, reading, reading, like Poppy said, was. As was how I, I guess I would say I learned, the resources, the the sorry, I'm having a brain fart right now, the terms and things like the terminology, the term learning, all of that, just through books, through website. So and yeah, talking to people sometimes, but it mostly was for me, on a personal level, in the beginning, through books,
got it. Thank you for sharing that someone asked the question, and I think we may have covered it. Do you have partners that you do not love, and what would make that person a partner? Per se? Do you have partners that you don't love? And I think if so, what makes that person a partner?
I don't think you go into every relationship automatically loving someone at least I know I don't sometimes I just like you, like looking at you, I like talking to you, and from there, we decide if we want to be wrote in a romantic relationship, we make that agreement. So yeah, I would say for myself, there's definitely partners that I've had that I don't love, or I guess I'm understanding the context of love, like in love with that I'm not in love with, but I care for, so I have love for them, but I would say most people don't go into relationships with people, off the bat, in love or having a deep affection that kind of gets built over time. For some, I'll say they're a partner because I because we say they are, because that's what we agreed to. That's it.
Yeah, everybody becomes a partner. For me, some, some people you know that I'm with, just remain friend. Girlfriend, boyfriend, joy, friend. There are just some dynamics that don't reach the partner threshold. For me, partners, I definitely feel are people that are kind of like that. Quote, goes, reason, seasons, lifetimes, or, you know, roots, branches, leaves, partners are roots for me, and not everybody is roots like that. That's deep.
Not everybody's roots. Y'all somewhere. So I want to say, if you just joined you're watching the counter narrative show. We are discussing being black and polyamorous. If you have any questions, please feel free to put that in the comment section right now, because we're getting ready to wrap up. One person asked the question or they made a comment. Um, oh, Chris said, Thanks for the explanation, Poppy. Um, it is interesting that polyamory forces partners to learn how to deal with the realities of a relationship in a more upfront manner those in monogamous relationships except the fairy tale stereotype presented in movie, in movies, and don't face the realities of the day to day relationship into until later.
I mean, that's true.
Yeah, there's a component of, like, radical honesty, where it's like, Yes, I'm attracted to this person, or this is what I want, or I like you and I love it, or the regular check in, um, what are some comment on that statement that Robert shared? But also, what are some of the things that you find that a muscle that that is practice more in polyamorous relationship than in monogamous relationship. And despite what other people think, from what you shared earlier, is not the coochie muscle. So what is that muscle?
This is a thing when it comes down to, like, that radical honesty, I honestly feel like it comes down to the partner that you choose. You know, at the end of the day, if you're choosing somebody, even in a monogamous relationship, if you're choosing somebody that's not being honest with you, you have to really find out, like, why are you choosing that person that's, you know, dishonest? Why are you still in a relationship with this person that's dishonest? Because for me, trust, honesty, respect that's all tied together, like it has to be all tied together. So when we get in a partnership or a relationship, then we have already communicated that there's there's no need for a lie. So even in like a monogamous relationship. Ship had very honest partners to the point where they were like, Yeah, you know, like, also, my intuition was off the charts. So I could be, I could really, you know, know, some things before I knew some things. But we're not gonna get into that. But when it came down to, like, having a partner and in a monogamous relationship, they were honest. And when I got into a relationship that, you know, with a in a poly relationship, I kept that same communication, or I heightened it up. It was, it was, it's communication. It's the willingness and the transparency of that, you know, that communication that I feel is different for a, you know, I don't know, because, you know, yeah, like, I would feel like it's different for a monogamous relationship, because sometimes when you're growing up, you're learning, like, all right, you can't, you know, you can't tell, like, your your significant other, like, that person's high like, you can't, you can't say that, like, that's, that's different. I can't
even say, I feel like also can't even say I'm jealous. I'm feeling jealous. I don't think there's enough folks to be able to say that, actually say that out loud, like I'm jealous, I feel threatened, I'm uncomfortable, a little insecure. You know, those aren't things that we just that we verbalize, it seems,
yeah, that's the thing. Like, I had a partner who I was just entering into polyamory. So they were, they're very monogamous. Like, they're like, is you only you? Nobody else but you? Like, do you even need somebody else but me? And I was like,
super monogamous, even,
you know, scary now I need you to relax. But they were not with the polyamorous lifestyle. It was, it didn't matter how much I communicated, it was just something that they weren't comfortable with, regardless if they had jealousy issues, possessive issues, trust issues, if they were completely comfortable in who they are, they just didn't like the fact, I think it was honestly possessiveness, like they didn't like the fact that I was able to love other people, regardless of the dynamic that I chose, you know, with that person, I could have been had a platonic, ass relationship with this person and love them, you know, extremely and that person was like, yeah, no, I can't. I wouldn't be able to deal with that. Like, I need all of it. I'm just like, this is a bottle. Like, am I pouring in all of my energy to you? You know, so that's my experience.
Ditto on the possessive factor of some people, yeah, I always say that, non monogamy, polyamory, relationship, anarchy, all of these different things are pretty much the fast track to relating when it comes to relationships, because it forces you to be out front with a lot of things in a in lightning speed compared to most monogamous dynamics. But a muscle that I've had to exercise and well is boundaries. Like boundaries are life blood to successful polyamorous relationships, you have to have very clear and very firm grip on your boundaries. And if you don't, then, no, it turns into a toxic, co dependent soup mess really quickly. And that that's not healthy poly at all.
Yeah, and I will say that, like you, you are forced to exercise communication because of all the moving pieces. And I will say that, um, for me, in monogamy, it was always this understanding that, like my partner, should just know. You should just know I'm angry. You should just know how to love me. You should just know I chose you. You're my partner. We doing this because, like you said, the movie, the fairy tale, they kind of just like, Oh, you're my perfect person, and you just fit me. And that's not real, like you have to teach a person how to deal with you. And so that is something that has continued to be my ongoing thing that I'm working in on, because I I'm a rather partner I will in the bed is just be like, I can't sleep. But they would just be like, You good, okay, I'm good. Like, they like, I. I would go by, like, so you're not gonna ask me what's wrong if, like, you think I'm just supposed to just, no, I'm like, but like, if you don't tell me, I don't know, and I'm like, Oh, I'm like, All right, you ain't gotta, you gotta, you gotta reach your boy like, you ain't gotta be loud, like you could be right and quiet, you know? So it's like, this idea, like, you have to communicate, because I literally don't know. And if I'm dealing with 1234, people, you are different from them, from them, from them. So if you are upset at something, and you walk around huffing and puffing, Imma ask you, is there do you anything you need? Like, what's up? I'm gonna check in with you. But if you tell me you're fine, I'm not reading between the lines, no more, then you're fine. And so what it does is it forces you to, kind of have to be humble and be like, Okay, I'm not fine. And I've learned that the conversations are always worse in your head. I've definitely been able to, like, go to partners and be like, you hurt my feelings, you didn't prioritize me and I'm upset. Or even like you'd be, like you're manipulative, like that's what you are. And like, you wouldn't, I wouldn't be able to say that to someone in my monogamous relationships without it being, like, a fight, like, Oh, now your name and all of this. But like, I have relationships where I can say words and they know what they mean, and we can just have conversations, and it's, it's beautiful. So I always tell people, even if you like, look into monogamy, you try and you don't stay, you'll never monogamy the same, like, it'll have a whole higher standard anyways, like you have to communicate nothing.
I feel like there's so many, so many advantages to being non normative. Because you do, because there's, there's not a lot assumed. I feel like in queer relationships, and especially with folks who are pansexual, there's just a lot more communication about sex, about boundaries, about soft boundaries, hard boundaries. What places you like to be touched, what places you don't like to be touched? You know, there's just a lot more conversation I feel like when you're non normative, because everything is just assumed, it creates your own experience, right? Right? You guys have been great. I could keep you guys for longer, but before I let you go, I'm sure two things I want you to tell me as we close out. One, people who are like, You know what? I think I'm polyamorous, and I want to like I want to I want to explore this. Give them a resource, whether that's a Facebook group, a book or whatever, give them a resource. And also, you're welcome, Natalia. Natalia said, Thank you for this. Also, in addition to giving them a resource, let them know where they could find, Follow, tweet or whatever, or stalk you in a non stalker short away on the webs, on the web. So I'm going to start with Jay. Jay, give folks a resource for polyamory, let them know where they can find you in the webs.
So where my resources that I like to give people is more than two, more than two.com, and the book I can be found at blackpolly, babe.blogspot.com, I and yeah, thank you so much. I really appreciate it. Awesome.
Me too. I gotta have y'all back again. Y'all are coming back
if you want to, but I want you to. So Alright, next,
Poppy, give the folks a resource, and also, where can they find you?
So my resource would be a book that I came across spiritual polyamory. By mystical life I found that on Amazon, wonderful, wonderful resource, especially if you're like in that middle space as far as spirituality, the idea of not identifying specifically with original religion, but you know, feeling through the corners of your own spirituality. So that resource for me, great book. As far as finding me, I am on Instagram. I am on the club of the house. You can look up my name. It's P, A, p, i, d, I, 4b, L, zero. So a lot of people miss that zero. So yeah, I'm in. I'm on both of those things, and I do erotic poetry. So if you're into that, find me on clubhouse. You won't regret, oh, I.
I'm about to go go in my hallway, see if I can find you. Alright, Black Dragon,
I appreciate you for having me on here. Everybody here is amazing, you know, knowledgeable in your own way, and I love it as resource. I say two resources. The first resource is your own self, your own intuition. Trust who you are. And yes, some things are going to be like, nervous. You're going to be like, Wait, this doesn't go with you know how I was raised. This isn't something that's normal for other people. But you you're on this live, and you see that there are people who are living this lifestyle, you know, who who are living this way. And so it's possible, and you'll have support when you go out and, you know, check like clubhouse, which is the second resource that I say. I love clubhouse. It's amazing. You get to find out all the different perspectives. Here's some juicy, juicy, stories, you know, I mean, like sipping tea, water, coffee, everything else, but you're also getting a lot of other information, you know, like understanding, like coffee said boundaries, like how how to implement those, and basically realizing that polyamory is, you know, the best that you make it for you. It's your relationship. At the end of the day, everybody can find me on Instagram or Twitter under black dragon, uh, B, L, x, c, k, d, r, x, g, X, N, so all the vowels or changes change to x, which also goes with my business. You know, I do? I have a business which is CBD, intimate products. So you can check out my page for more information about that. So
gotta say page, my
page is black dragon organics, and it's spelled like, actually, Black Dragon organics with 1x um, and, yeah, they're all natural, all organic, CBD, intimate products. You can check out the website, all that information. We can, we can, I can come back on here. We can have that conversation. You know what I mean.
You should write this down,
you know, so I appreciate having me on here and everybody on here. Thank you.
Yeah, I appreciate you, having you next week, next week, next month is minding her business, and it's black women entrepreneurs, Hey, Ray, yes, hi,
they got all the good resources. I guess I'll go with the holy grail staple, ethical slut is
the holy grail. Yeah, everybody go through it. It's kind of like how you get your polyamory permit. It has some really good stuff. It's on its, I want to say third edition. So it's a little bit more inclusive of queer people of the different orientations and sexualities. Um, really great information in there to start with. I will also say clubhouse. I have a they call it a greenhouse. Did y'all know that that's what they call the club? They call them greenhouses. I have a greenhouse. It's called poly love style. So poly underscore love, underscore style. It is currently the biggest polyamorous greenhouse. We have almost 4000 members, so you can literally just come and find community. There's several other groups on there. I know a good Facebook resource. The biggest Facebook resource for just exposure to black people is black poly nation. They have over 30,000 people in there. I am also a New York City event rep for them, and they also have a clubhouse under the same name. You can find me on Instagram at Kai Ray So, k, a, i, r, H, A, E, if that's what my own name, or clubhouse at radiance. So, R, H, A, E, D, I, a, n, t, and, yeah,
I'm usually on the group with Ray too.
Yeah, I host a queer and polyam group once a week, just because my group is predominantly for people of color. Everybody's welcome, but the priority is people of color. So then I always like to um brother queer people in because we're always trying to find community. So it's like,
come be with us. Be queer as well. I am come hang out.
Let's be friends. And it's so many intersections, right? Black queer, probably so many intersections. I will say I do appreciate that distinction on clubhouse or any space. Is really what I see, black and polyamory, or I see black polyamory and queer. I feel it makes a difference. I've gone to some other spaces that are not, that are not queer, and I don't know they feel they don't feel right, they feel predatory. I don't know. Just just doesn't feel good for me, but anywho. Thank you so much. This has been the counter narrative show. We have been talking about being black and polyamorous. Thank you so much for joining. If you're watching live, if you're watching the replay, feel free to please share, like and follow Ray Black Dragon Jay Poppy on all of the things. Thank you. Facebook, fam. Have a good night.
Good night. Night, everybody.
I need to know everything. Who in the what in the where I need everything. Trust me, I hear what you're saying, but allegiance. Know what you're telling me. I'm Curious George. I happen to pause for five and a horse. I'm ready for war. I'm coming for throws eternal with ghosts. I need to know everything you.