I'm Travis Bader and this is The
Silvercore Podcast.
Join me as I discuss matters related to
hunting, fishing, and outdoor pursuits with the
people in businesses that comprise the community.
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Here's a quick the preamble to this
fantastic episode.
Kevin has graciously extended an opportunity
to watch one episode of season six of the
hit show From The Wild, simply use coupon
code Silvercore when checking out, but hurry,
because it's first come, first serve until
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If you want to watch the entire series for
free check out our social media or website
for more details.
Today, I'm joined by Kevin Kossowan and
chef Paul Rogalski.
Kevin is a filmmaker, cinematographer and
creator of the two time James Beard award
nominated series.
From the wild.
Kevin also offers foraging walks and
field cookery camps at his, from the wild base
camp, which is about a hundred kilometers
north of Edmonton.
Chef Paul Rogalski is a co-owner and chief
culinary officer at Calgary's a claimed
Rouge restaurant.
The restaurant has achieved the prestigious
ranking as one of San Pellegrino's, 50 best
restaurants in the world.
Together Paul and Kevin have created the
show wild harvest with Survivorman Les Stroud,
where they forage cook and celebrate
Canada's wild foods.
Kevin, Paul, welcome to The Silvercore Podcast.
Thanks for having us.
You know, Kevin was kind of funny a lil'
serendipitous, I guess, but recently I was
talking with Hank Shaw and we were talking
about his new book Hook Line and Supper and out
of the blue, without any knowledge that we
were scheduled to speak.
Hank talks about cooking trout or as
his Canadian friend, Kevin Kossowan would
pronounces it, trewt
Yep.
Good old Hank.
I didn't know if that's a Hankism or
what, but I thought it was kind of funny.
Yeah.
He likes to poke fun at us Canadians and, uh,
basically, you know, any linguistics kind of
fun about accents and the way we say things.
One of the things that Hank pokes fun
at me about is, um, is calling, uh, the forest
or the woods, the bush.
So when I say we're.
That's what it's called.
Going to the bush, he said, the singular
bush, the only one.
That one bush.
You're going to that one.
Yeah.
That's a good Hankism.
Yeah.
Hanks been on From The Wild a couple of times,
actually we've been, uh, trout fishing, foraging,
grouse hunting, waterfowl hunting, actually.
So we've done quite a few things and I
met Hank Shaw online.
He was one of the, when I first started writing
about food on the internet back when that
was the thing a million years ago, Hank was one
of the first commenters, um, on my blog.
And so, uh, it's funny to see him now, you
know, having started his own and then it
become a gigantic thing.
And him having an entirely new career
cause he was a political journalists back
when I first met him.
That's right.
Yeah, funny background, but weren't you an
accountant by trade before getting into
what you do now?
No!
I wasn't an accountant, I was in finance.
I have a, have a commerce degree and a finance
major and I worked in finance for 14 years.
So yeah.
Uh, we, uh, there's a number of us creatives
in the world of food that have, you know,
business backgrounds or some type of other
training and end up here because it's a creative
space that offers a lot.
Well, what brought you here?
Uh, whoa.
Uh, I'm not sure we have enough time
for that today.
Um, really just a deep dive into
the world of food.
Uh, I, I guess I hated my career, so I was
spending a lot of time doing anything else
that interested me in one of those things
was a food and I'd done some travel in Europe,
a fair bit and kind of, um, was exploring
their regional cuisines.
Kind of you know, from, from region to region
and it intrigued the heck out of me and came
back to Alberta and, uh, really want us to
dig into, well, what, what do we have here?
What are the, what are the farms that are
doing the best jobs?
Who are the local food artisans?
W what are, what are the things that make
this place special?
And honestly, that was like a half decade to
decade long search and.
Wow.
Uh, in, I guess kind of plopped me why we're
doing so much wild food production is one of
the things I found that speaks the most to place
and time in the world of food is actually getting
outside, outside the world of agriculture in
greenhouses and control.
And let and, and interfacing with nature
and then seeing what exists in that exact
spot at that exact time when it comes to food.
And, and that's where, uh, my career has kind of
led me, is to exploring those moments and
exploring those foods.
Well, how did you and Paul, how did you guys
meet each other and come up with this idea
for, for Wild Harvest?
Uh, Kevin, do you want to go run with that
one or do you want me to take this one?
Yeah, go ahead.
Uh, Kevin and I met a few years ago, uh,
just because, you know, Kevin's love and passion
for the world of food.
Uh, he found himself working on a lot of local
projects, uh, meeting chefs, working with chefs
and, uh, we worked on one with a lot of chefs.
Um, a few that were visiting from Europe and
local chefs called, uh, Cook It Raw and Kevin
was capturing it and really documenting every
moment of that event.
Um, so it was the first time for us
really to work closely with each other.
And, uh, I can tell you one special thing
about Kevin is Kevin just has this ability
to put everyone at ease around him.
And, uh, I thought, man, this guy is, this
guy has got some chops, but he's also just a
really great person.
So, um, we kind of kept in contact
since that project.
And, um, Kevin and I also did, uh, projects, just
a mini project together where, uh, we took people
foraging in the field.
Um, Kevin captured a promotional video.
And produced it, uh, for the restaurant to use.
And, um.
And that was a project spearheaded by Travel
Alberta actually.
A few years ago, there was kind of a aggressive
movement in the culinary tourism space in Alberta
to, um, to, to do that, to tap into the, the
interesting kind of forging stuff that was
happening in the province and pairing foragers
with, uh, chefs right.
Paul, that was kind of what that is.
Yeah.
What was prompted since then.
That's kind of fizzled and we've entered a
pandemic when culinary tourism isn't a
thing at all anyway.
But yeah, that's how we bumped into each other.
And Paul, why don't you fly into, how
did you, how did we get into the show?
How did we end to start Wild Harvest?
This is a good, uh, that this might take
a little bit of time.
Uh, I'll try to be as brief as possible.
Uh, so a couple of years ago I was flying in from
PEI where I was, um, part of an event called
forage, which was a symposium made up of a
lot of different chefs from across the country.
And, uh, I was just flying into Calgary.
I had done the thing that you're not
supposed to do, but I turned my cell phone
on before we landed.
And, uh, first message that popped up was a
text from Les saying, hey, I don't know what
you're doing, but I'm in Calgary, I've got
a four-hour layover at the airport, if you want
to come meet me for a beer, that'd be great.
So.
Of course, I'm like, dude, this is insane.
I I'm literally wheels down, I'm on the tarmac.
Just let me get my luggage and
I'll meet you.
So we, we touched base, um, and I I've known Les
for quite a few years.
We met initially on a project, uh, where we
were both filming down in Mexico and, and the
idea of a television series, um, kind of like
this one we're we're, you know, in the air, um.
Anyways, so Les than I had had talked about
it again, just catching up a little bit.
Um, and then a couple of months later, he reached
out again and said, hey, I'm coming to Alberta.
And I said, you know what?
If you're coming to Alberta, there's
one person I want you to meet.
So knowing that Kevin, um, is very good in the
same sort of space as Les when it comes to
bushcraft and, and, uh, filming and producing
beautiful final products.
Plus Kevin's a musician and Les is a musician, I
thought they should meet.
And we had a one little, um, FaceTime
meeting where I thought, you know,
it'd be kind of fun.
Uh, to, to get the conversation going.
Um, initially I thought, you know, it'd be great
if they worked on a project together with me
not being in the project.
Um, but that augmented in a short period of
time to what is now, you know, a 21 episodes.
In front of 4 billion people paul.
That's what it is.
Yeah.
That's our yeah, potential audience
right now.
So it's, it's crazy how things unfolded and where
we're at 20, 21 episodes in the camp currently.
Wow.
Well, have you been in front of the
camera before Paul?
A little bit here and there.
Nothing uh, nothing major.
Um, my experience would be more dealing with live
audiences, uh, taking the stage, uh, trade
shows, that type thing, a little bit of filming,
uh, with Michael Smith from the Food Network.
He's, he's a close buddy of mine.
And, uh, yeah, so this is a new for me.
Very, very new.
So I've been able to watch a few of the
episodes that have come out and you're
on the beach and, and Les is doing some
foragin' and pointing things out to you.
Do you have a foraging background yourself,
Paul, or is this kind of new to you?
Uh, the answer is I I've always been interested
in foraging, um, and I've been basically camping
my, my entire life and there's things that I've
noticed, you know, oh, those are wild chives,
so I've taken wild chives or rose hips, but
just real simple stuff.
Uh, where I am at now is, um, really in this
steep learning curve of what is edible, um,
beyond my imagination, to be honest.
And to be in the field and have this opportunity
to learn about wild foraged ingredients,
uh, with Kevin and Les is probably one
of the greatest things that I have going in
my life right now.
Right.
Well, you know, I've, I've got a background
fishing and hunting and to me, foraging just
wasn't even on the radar.
And my wife is a chef by trade and
she loves to garden.
She was into foraging, I'm like that that's
her thing, fair enough.
And it wasn't until actually going out
with Hank and he took us on a, on a foraging
walk down in California there and point note
the abundance of wild edible food that's
everywhere and learning from his approach.
I was hooked.
I love it.
And I love watching your guys' show
because you're learning some great stuff.
And you guys, you also have your recipes,
you post them on the website, so anyone
else can go out.
It's kind of like a, it seems like a
bit of a black box challenge for you, Paul.
Here's some surprise edibles you can eat
it, you won't die.
Go make something.
So, yeah.
Yeah.
I'm glad you picked up on that because
it's been very much that way for me.
Um, not only figuring out the new ingredients,
but uh, as Kevin will tell you, camera's
rolling, as I do it.
And, uh, th the kitchen and changes for me
all the time as well.
So whether I'm cooking it and, uh,
an outdoor situation where, you know,
it's live fuel fire.
Uh, but of course, right at the magic
moment where I need heat, the fire dies.
Of course.
So that's one of those things to, to work
around, but we've, um, been able to
film in various other kitchens as well.
And each kitchen's a little bit unique.
So it's not just the challenge of
the ingredients.
It's the challenge of knowing how hot
the stove I'm working on is, is my Coleman
filled with propane?
How hot is the fire?
Is my charcoal ready?
There, there's a lot of these elements that,
uh, I can say kind of add to the color and
the heat of the episode.
Man, but you're sure up for the challenge
that's for sure.
Yeah.
And his track record is nuts, uh, Les and
I both, you know, thought, well, he's
going to get it wrong at least, you know, a good
portion of the time.
And he can't knock it out of the park all the time.
And, um, I think his batting average
is extremely high.
I think there's been two dishes in 20 episodes
that Les was like, hmm, I think he maybe could have
done better on this one.
But other than that, this has been, he's
been just killing it.
Wow.
Well, Kevin, is that you behind the camera,
for most or all of it?
Are you doing most of the video work there?
Uh, yeah, if it's not Les behind the
camera, it's me.
It's fantastic.
The cinematography and then the, the pairing
with the audio and the sounds, I don't know
what you call it, folly or foley or whatever.
Um, it's a really good job um.
Thanks.
One thing that I thought was interesting
was, um, you use the camera and you use
your skills to not promote the Kevin brand.
You use it to work with others.
And I think you actually, at one point
came out, you said that your goal is to
foster collaboration and innovation and
industry development.
That's pretty cool.
You don't see that a lot.
Yeah.
Fair enough.
I mean, whether I was actually, it was a kind
of a steady conversation real early on is do I
end up as an on-camera character and, and it
really didn't need it.
Um, but the fun part that I get to play, uh,
that I think is probably really unique and no one
would really understand is, uh, I get to go in
the field with Stroud and, and look for things.
And he and I both forge.
So we both know a lot about plants and
then I get to kind of play in that space.
And then, uh, when it's time for Paul to
jump in the kitchen and he and I are talking
menu and ingredients and tasting stuff and
figuring out, okay, where do we take this?
How do we make this fit for the show?
I guess, I mean, the show really is, is
obviously a priority, but really it really is,
we're trying to make, we're trying to make a
dish that Les will enjoy because fundamentally
that's what the camera's being pointed at.
So it's been a fun challenge.
I get to, I get to kind of play in both of those
spaces without having my face on camera, which
is just fine by me.
I've never been the kind of obsessive about
having to be on camera.
I have to elaborate a little bit, so I'm
very lucky that Kevin is an accomplished
cook as well.
And, uh, his palette is also very
similar to mine.
So where I feel for Kevin is he has to deal with
me as I work through dishes, creatively,
where it's like, oh, I got this idea.
And then Kevin will be like, okay, start
working on the camera, angles around that.
And then I change it 15 times.
And then at the very, very last second,
camera's rolling.
I'm like, whoa, hang on one last little
detail or five.
Uh, two artists working together.
I tell ya.
Yeah.
Well the, there is a lot of, uh, hunting
shows and foraging shows and, and, and
cooking shows out there.
But you guys take a perspective that is
rather unique, I think.
You've rather than have it.
You have a very cinematic field, how it's
filmed, which is great.
You guys aren't decked out head to toe and
camouflage, and it's not about the process of,
it's not about the actual acquisition of the food.
The goal is not that rather it's the full
process and the respect for the food . All the
way through, which I find very refreshing.
At the very beginning, the work that goes into
get it, the respect for how you care for
it and prepare it.
And then the end result at the very end.
Um, do you see many other shows out there
that are kind of doing a similar thing or is
this kind of trying to break new ground here?
That's a good question.
You're asking two guys that don't
watch a lot of TV.
Yeah.
I hear ya.
I would say that, um, my entire career has been
built around um, pushing the boundaries of what
people are, are used to seeing and, or, or, um,
kind of removing the filters that industry
applies and brought that broadcast industry and
the food industry apply to how we see food.
So, uh, for, From The Wild, that meant, uh,
yeah, we're showing you how, uh, an animals
butchered or gutted, which, um, that that's
changed over time, but From The Wilds and season
eight and in season one MeatEater wasn't
on Netflix yet, or it was just about to be.
And there was really no content, uh, in the, in
that space of, of, uh, most hunting shows where
the grab the antlers and show the rock and
roll the credits that was hunting shows.
Um, and, and we really, as someone who grew
up hunting wanted to expand that into, um,
you know, all the stuff that happens after that,
we, and in some episodes we actually do that.
We just start rolling and there's not an animal
on the ground already.
And what happens after that is, is the show.
And so that's not for everybody.
I get that because the industry's built
this interest in, in, in, uh, 30 bucks in 30
minutes kind of thing.
But when it comes to Wild Harvest, it's
not much different.
It really is about approaching an ecosystem
and half the time, and Paul can have my back
on this one, in season two, we went into the,
flying into shooting it and have no idea what
we were going to do.
Like two, three days prior.
We just didn't know.
And then you walk into the field and
go, okay, well, what's, what's here.
What can we do?
Um, and then it really becomes very
ingredient centric.
And I think that's not, when folks go looking
for stuff, wild food things, whether you're
hunting, fishing, or foraging, they're usually
looking for like, a trophy, like a morale
or a white tail buck or a trout or something.
And I think this really embraces the trophy
is the stuff that's on offer by nature.
And you don't, and on your, uh, being able
to use your skillset.
And your knowledge to just roll with whatever
happens to be on offer and make something
delicious out of it.
And that's what Wild Harvest is entirely about
is just wheeling into an ecosystem and seeing
what's there and then making is beautiful and
tasty plate as we can.
And so those two shows are highly aligned in
that side, on that front.
What are some of the areas that you've been
dropped into that have been the hardest to
harvest wild food in?
Paul?
Any thoughts?
Uh.
Okay.
I'll I'll spit out one.
Think about this Paul.
One of them was actually shooting, um, the mussels
scene in Oregon because we were on the coast and
that's the first time in my entire career that I
almost lost my a cam and all of our cards in it,
falling into the ocean.
Cause the rogue waves were coming in
and pounding us on that, on that scene.
And so that was tough.
Uh, the desert, maybe Paul, that was
pretty tough too.
And in some ways.
Yeah.
It's um, it's interesting because there there's
challenges of, of course where you're harvesting
from, but then there's things that also come
into play, which would be heat as an example
of it just being out and getting beaten by the
sun we're filming in the sun and, uh, you know,
hydration, just some of those basic things.
I think some of the harvest items that,
um, I have found to be difficult would
be, uh, something like beaked hazlenut, where
cracking and just trying to get enough meat
out of a green nut.
Um, you know, it's like, okay, let's
dedicate a bunch of time to this one, the
actual harvesting of it, wasn't so bad,
but the processing of it definitely
took some time.
Uh, and I think.
We're kind of lucky because a lot of the,
I'll say this from my, my side of things, but when
it comes to difficult harvest, Les is the guy
that actually is a, been getting in and getting
dirty and getting cold and, you know, trying
to dig out rhizomes with a pickax out of gravel.
Yeah like pond lilies.
Yes!
Yeah pond lily tubers.
Pond lily tubers out of the bottom
of like a lake.
And then, uh, another one was actually
arrowleaf balsam root.
We did recently in the, Okanagan.
A beautiful plant, really hard to work
with in the kitchen.
Um, but required a bunch of digging and
some rock and stuff so, I don't know.
There's, it's, it's interesting there,
uh, There's such a wide variety.
It's kinda hard to, hard to choose what might've
been a challenging one.
They're all kind of challenging.
Even like maybe making maple syrups
no easy task.
That's it takes forever.
Yeah.
Well, those, those rhizomes, that was
from the, uh, the cat tails, right?
Yeah.
That's right.
How were they?
I've never tasted those before they,
how did they taste?
Not like anything, to be honest.
Um, once they were processed, they really
just came, uh, to light that they were a starch
and used as a starch.
So as a, a flour additive, or, um, a sauce
thickening engagement.
Uh, we, we had a chance to, and this
is what I really value about the show.
Kevin and I spend hours in the kitchen just
learning about stuff.
It's like, okay, experiment, number one.
I've never seen this before.
Let's, let's see how this, um, in the case
of the cat tail rhizome, how it works in a slurry
environment, how does it work once we dehydrate it
and powder it and really play around with it.
But in that case, in particular, it was so
neutral that you could add it to anything
and wouldn't even know what that it was there.
Kind of like cornstarch.
Yeah.
If you had to compare it to something,
is that fair, Paul?
Yeah, I think.
Kinda.
Yeah.
Or rice flour maybe, somewhere in between
the two of them.
The one thing that I remember being one of
the surprising things to work with was pond
lily tuber, which is kind of pulled out the
same way that you pull out a cat tail rhizome.
And I know Kevin referred to it a little bit
earlier, a little hard to harvest and oh man,
it's not tasty at all.
It's it's the opposite of cat tail rhizome,
which is user-friendly.
This stuff tasted like, uh, open sewer
and smelt like an open sewer on a hot day.
I can't even describe it.
That's a good description.
Yeah.
And, and despite that, I think the crazy part is
despite that you figured out a way to use it in
a dish that actually made a lot of sense and
where it was kind of interesting because this
is the show certainly isn't about shock and awe
and look how disgusting a wild ingredient we
can use, we can put into something nice.
It's actually quite the opposite.
We're looking for nice stuff as often as we can.
But, uh, even that ended up kind of taking the
place of kind of had an MSG kind of note.
It really performed us salinity kind of function
in a dish, which is, was really unexpected.
So kind of like Paul mentioned, uh, some
of the biggest rewards on the project have
been the opportunity to learn and take the
time and have, you know, weeks in the field in
production to actually learn about these things
and, and dig in in ways that you would, never
would casually at home.
So kind of a luxury that way being on
the, on the project.
Well, how long does it usually take to film
a typical episode?
Two days.
Okay.
You just drop in.
What's that?
They're quick, it's a day, we sh we
allocate a day too.
Uh, me filming less forging for
the ingredients.
So finding the ingredients and, and
getting them in, in hand.
And then, uh, we usually let, at the end of that
day, let Paul know what's up and, uh, and show
him the ingredients.
And then the next morning it really is,
paul's getting the kitchen, whatever is
cooking spaces ready.
And then we film kind of like a mid day
meal and then kind of a dinner meal.
And then that's, and that's the show.
So it's a, it's actually tremendously
quick to produce.
Um, one of the advantages of actually having
three guys who are really good at, at,
um, rolling with it and creating on the fly.
And another advantage of having a show that's
not highly contrived and highly designed.
Um, it really is flexible to whatever is happening,
including the weather, including whatever.
That's just the nature of, you
know, going outside and things happen.
And yeah, so that's really, really lucky
in that respect.
So Paul, if I wanted to go out and do a little
foraging and I cook up a meal, and I didn't
quite know where I was going to go or what
I was going to find.
Uh, what sort of things, what sort of advice
would you give me and what sort of, uh, uh,
equipment should I be bringing in with myself
to hopefully be as successful as possible?
Uh, what's I think is brilliant to me
is you don't actually have to go far.
Uh, I, I think there, the notion that I had
before this project was, oh, have to get deep
into the woods and that's not the case at all.
So you can go into your backyard, you
can go into the alley.
If you can find a place that, you know,
maybe a little bit sheltered from some
debris and pesticides and that sort of thing.
So you can really harvest anywhere.
Uh, as far as tools go, I think overall,
I always bring a nice small knife with me.
So it's something that I can cut with
a pair of scissors.
And, uh, I don't have one yet, but Les is in the
process of developing, it's called a hookah.
No.
A hori hori.
That's it.
Yeah, a hori hori, which is like this heavy duty,
uh, blade on one side that that kind of is
like a cross between a, a garden spade, like
a little garden shovel and a knife and that.
Oh cool.
Yeah.
That thing is unbelievable.
Uh, I can tell you if you use it, it just,
once you're going to want to buy one.
I can jump in here too to say that the, uh,
the one thing that I think we both, we lack
in the field and that, uh, people want to
take people out into the field to teach
them about forging.
It's simple stuff like bags.
Like you need to put stuff in things, in
something and, uh, in some cases, uh, and it's,
it's difficult because it's a moving target.
In some cases it might be crayfish in the creek
that you found, well, that needs something that
can handle that, that's a bit wet and might
give him some oxygen.
And in some cases it's like little tiny things
that you might need a little bowl or a little
bag, and some cases it's gigantic amounts
of you know, nettle, or cow parsnip, or
fireweed, where you have like bouquets of it, a
big bunches of things.
So it's a bit at that.
That moving target makes it a bit tricky
to kind of advise people what to bring,
but you definitely need things to put stuff in
because when you do find stuff, you find a lot.
Like when I go from mushrooms, I fill my
vehicle multiple times.
So I need lots of baskets.
not one.
Love it.
So I really liked the episode, obviously on,
From The Wild watching Hank Shaw, cause I
know Hank and had a good laugh at how much
he complained about being cold and tired.
And what I thought was interesting.
Kevin is that you say that you are a
preacher in defense of uncomfortable.
Oh yeah.
That there's a value to being uncomfortable.
Yeah.
Um.
You still feel that way?
Oh yeah, absolutely.
There's a, there's a film called WALL-E
that I thought was one of the most genius
films ever created.
And in this little animated film, uh,
humans are relegated to sitting in homeostasis
and you can watch the movie and figure
out what that means.
But, um, I honestly feel like you're not, I don't
live my best life, uh, sitting on my couch.
That's not when I'm experiencing building
memories and learning and becoming better connected
with my planet or my friends or whatever.
So I, I, I quite embrace the district
of homeostasis and reminding yourself that
you're alive and, um, reminding yourself that
you're a hot blooded creature that is capable
all of doing things.
I think that that feels good basically, but it's
also good for your body.
It's good for your brain.
Uh, so yeah, it's funny.
Uh, we put Hank in some pretty.
Um, some situations he's not used to, let's
just put it that way.
I think, I think there's a bit of a difference
between going to an go go into, I guess,
guides, guided lodge kind of scenarios, you
know, in common in the US and then us crazy
Canadians who are like, let's walk 10 miles into
the bush up a river.
And where there's nobody and nothing
and sleep under a tarp on, in a thunderstorm.
Yeah.
So that's, that's the kind of stuff that
we put Hank through.
That is a bit bad on me, but in some ways
I feel, I feel fine about it because really
we all need a bit of a kick in the butt the
odd time that we're more capable than we think of.
And we can, we're more resilient than
we, we feel we are.
And sometimes we're just not as prepared
as we should be.
So that means everything from the kinds of
things that Les Stroud has spent a lot of his
career teaching people about, uh, to just basics
around clothing and back country equipment, uh,
which doesn't need to be a lot, but it needs
to be something so that, you know, uh, you know,
how to, how to take care of yourself outside.
Well, Kevin, you take a lot of people out and
teach them about foraging and you introduce them
to living off the land.
You introduced them to hunting and fishing.
And I think at one point you said a few years
back, you made the very conscious decision to
start a new hunter on small game, like grouse,
as opposed to starting them on big game.
And I think that's a very wise decision.
But I'm wondering, is there a story behind why
he say he took me that very conscious decision?
Yeah, because I'm an idiot.
And, um, early on, when we were producing
From The Wild, we just, you know, any, any
friend that expressed interest in hunting,
we thought, oh yeah, we'll take them out.
Like, what do you want to go for?
And they would, um, well, you know, kind of
natively and genuinely, it was just one people
to have a fun time.
And what would interest you?
The problem is, is that optically, uh, they would
watch a series be like, I want to go after black
bears, which was really common and big game or
a moose, or they want to hunt grizzly bears
and wolves or whatever.
It's just funny what people kind of feel
like they can do right off the get go.
So we actually introduced a lot of first-time
hunters into, into bear hunting in the spring.
Uh, and while it's doable, I just don't
think it's, uh, it was after having done it
for two, three years.
I realized, man, this is a mistake.
Um, the skills, the skillset that you need
to hunt a black bear is, is in the advanced
level, uh, for a variety of reasons, including
that they can kill you.
And, um, so there there's that.
And then, um, you know, have having introduced
some people to something as benign is walking the
roads for grouse, uh, that seemed like a lot
better place to start.
Your life's a lot less at risk.
There's a lot less that can go wrong.
And so, uh, I wish I had, uh, maybe thought of that
little nugget of wisdom sooner, but yeah, I would
advise anybody mentoring people in the world
of hunting or fishing, like start, start small.
Start easy, start with easy wins so that
it's fun for people rather than bunk.
Like don't go on a mountain sheep hunt as
your first hunting trip ever go for something a
little, a little easier.
Um, yeah, so I don't know, we learned kind
of the hard way and make some mistakes.
And one of the things about the show though,
and I would say Wild Harvest is the same.
Is we're not, not afraid to make mistakes
on camera, not afraid to have lived through
some of our learning on camera, uh, and to be
better people and better outdoorsmen, uh, you
know, a few shows down the road than we started.
There's no shame in that in my opinion.
I like that.
Now Paul, I know you've talked about overlooked
or hated type of wild foods that are often
treated like weeds, are sprayed with chemicals
are destroyed because it's interfering
with crops that are commercially growing.
Uh, once people start to really, they watch
Wild Harvest and they start embracing what
they can actually find.
And like you say, you can go in your back
alley, you can, you can forage on the sidewalk
really, if you, if you know what to look for.
Uh, as a chef, what would be some of your
favorite wild foraged foods that, uh, you
would like to cook with?
Oh, that is, um.
That's a good question.
Yeah, because there's so many, and I think
the past, um, year of my education when it comes
to forged ingredients.
Uh, I can say that almost everything that,
uh, we have brought in from, from the wild
has been delicious and it all has a place.
Um, there's definitely some considerations which
would be based on volume.
And some things are definitely easier to, to
get, uh, a large volume of products without
damaging the environment.
Uh, fireweed would be one of those
things, uh, especially this time of year.
Uh, and that's the big thing you don't want to
go out and harvest and damage the environment.
Which, uh, I think fundamentally
changes how I think of the ingredients.
Uh, as an example of something like a
delicate, beautiful little flower called
spring beauty is delicious, I wish I had
buckets full, but that's not the way they grow.
So it's capitalizing on things that do have
volume attached to them and serving them
in a way that I can showcase the abundance.
Or um, really dialing it down and having things
that are more dear, uh, and the way they grow
and challenge them the way they grow and, and
really tell that story on a plate as well.
Uh, and aside from that, really the, the big thing
that I've learned is a lot of the elements, um,
when it comes to flavor, uh, that wild ingredients
present are very similar to what you have in
commercialized production of, of produce.
Uh, there's some, some ingredients
that are better.
There's some that are sweet and, uh, it's,
it's really, as a skillset, uh, working
with wild ingredients, it's no different
than working with a typical ingredients
that you could buy in a supermarket.
One of your favorites, Paul, I'm going
to interject.
Uh, I know is milkweed.
And that's a great example of what you're
talking about, where it's a plant you
have to go easy on, uh, for a variety of
sustainability reasons is, uh, surrounding
the Monarch butterfly and other things.
But, uh, holy heck, is that a delicious piece of
green vegetable, right?
But like, and again, to your point, it tastes
a lot, like you would expect of a delicious
green vegetable.
It's not going to challenge people's
understanding of food.
Um, cat tail also with it's cu, kind of
cucumbery spicy notes.
Um, really familiar.
It's not much of a reach, for your palette.
Now I wouldn't say many of the ingredients
we have, spring beauty, the little,
little tubers blow.
It tastes like petite, like shockingly,
like potatoes.
So they're not, again, just not, not as, not
as weird as you think.
Whenever people think, oh, wild food,
oh, that's weird.
Or, oh, forge, that's weird.
I think, yeah, blueberries, raspberries,
strawberries.
There's lots of things that we know in the world
of food in agriculture that are from the wild.
And, uh, and they're not weird.
It's not nearly as bizarre as you think.
Yeah.
And then there's rock tripe.
So there's some weird things.
Rock tripe is, uh, yeah, that was the challenge.
Well, I really like the fact that you
guys, I emphasize ethical harvesting.
You're not just going out there, wipe it out
a full patch and you're drawing the connection to
how this is a food source and an important part of
the biology and the, the makeup for other animals.
Like you're just saying there, the
Monarch butterfly.
I got to imagine that putting a show like Wild
Harvest, is going to have a two pronged approach
of number one, educating people, but it's also
going to encourage people to get out there
and start foraging.
Have, have you noticed, and like, particularly
with COVID, I've been finding there's more
and more interest, people talking to
me about hunting and foraging and fishing and
being self-sufficient.
Have you, have you guys noticed there's
a marked increase in the demand for this
kind of knowledge?
And also, have you noticed that your, maybe
some of your favorite spots are starting to get
wiped out because of new people getting into it?
Well, I'd say last year I noticed a big bump up.
We started seeing like trailer, you know,
uh, campgrounds that didn't exist before in
the, on crown land in the middle of nowhere.
Uh, and that be those quite common.
But, um, I would say this year, we're finding
the complete opposite.
Why?
I don't know, it's like people burned out
on that and I'm like, oh, maybe this isn't
so bad and I don't have to be so smart.
And so self-sufficient, um, but yeah, I,
I, I have a few opinions on this.
Um, and we've, again, covered a lot of this
on camera, but, uh, I'm personally of
the opinion, and I know Les is largely
philosophically aligned and Paul probably too.
That uh, our objective is to introduce people
to these species so that they actually
care about them.
And in, so doing in caring about them and
knowing about them might care a little
more about how we do our forestry or how we
do some of our other resource extraction.
Um, for example, uh, oh boy, uh, chaga is
a perfect example.
I've been, I had my hand slapped on social
media for pictures of harvesting chaga,
and people like to really talk about the
sustainability of chaga harvest and chaga is
a fungus, uh, kind of like a coffee tasting.
Delicious, good for you, antioxidant fungus, it's
really, really great.
I love it, we use it at home.
But my, my knee jerk reaction to that is.
When you use your paper towel today, or your
toilet paper, did you discuss with it, the
sustainability of the chaga harvest and the
clear cuts that generated those paper products are
the ones that we shipped, shipped, shipped to
China or somewhere else?
Uh, we don't, we don't think about
sustainability.
You know, people get pretty fussy
about sustainability with forging.
But then we just completely like mow the
boreal forest or, or any other ecosystem or
completely destroy the grasslands ecosystem
with agriculture and fence lines and such,
and don't really think anything of that.
So to me to get to too, in my face about, uh,
sustainable foraging, when we have all those
other practices as a species is, uh, is
just a moot point.
There's just, it's, there's so much bigger
issues to discuss.
And then did I pick the chaga at the top
of the tree and the bottom of the tree?
It's funny what people get their knickers in
a twist over isn't it.
Yeah.
And how blind they are to the fact that they
live in a wild space.
You know, I live in the city, it's in a wild
space, it's an ecosystem.
It is.
People don't think of that, but that's
how it works.
And, uh, yeah, and, and the impact and the
general day-to-day impact that they have on the
environment, people are pretty blind to.
Which is another reason that I think encouraging
people to get outside and explore what's in
their back alley, like Paul, to Paul's point.
If they find out holy crap, I just saw someone
spray right where we pick our dandelions
every spring that makes you not feel happy.
And then you maybe you'll do something about it.
Maybe you'll maybe you'll say something, maybe
being our policy will change so that we're not,
you know, doing, making stupid moves uh, uh,
in, in our environment just to suit aesthetics
or something shallow, and maybe we'll have
a broader perspective on how we interact
with the environment.
So that's my take on that.
So yeah, we'll encourage people to forge more.
Yeah, there'll, they'll have a bigger
impact on wild things.
Cool, great.
Because then when there's a permit to go out to a
forestry management area, that's going to wipe out
5,000 hectares of forest.
Maybe someone will stand up and say, whoa,
whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.
Maybe not.
It that's one thing I find the show does
very well, is it shows how we are all apart
of the environment and it's not, hey, there's
nature and there's me.
Yeah.
There's nature.
And here's the plants and there's the animals
and there's man or human.
Well I'm glad that comes across.
Oh, yeah, no, it does.
It does.
And it's a, it's like, um, and I mentioned it
before Shane Mahoney, uh, back east, he's a
prolific conservationist and a hell of an order.
And he says, you know, I'm quite often, I'm,
I'm asked about how can I square myself with
the fact that I love animals and that I hunt.
And he says, it's, it's not a question
of there being a different set of rules
for them in a different set of rules for me.
The question is I am one of them, or the fact is I
am one of them and we all work together and we have
to take a look at how that all comes into play.
And that's, that's one of the takeaways that I
see on, on Wild Harvest.
Yeah.
I'm glad that comes across.
We absolutely are part of the ecosystem that
you, that we live in and every decision you make
every day, impacts that.
And if you don't want to consume a living thing,
then you choose death.
Like as humans too, to live, we're killing a
species of something.
And I'm not very speciesist as Paul knows,
it doesn't matter to me, whether it's a rabbit
or a deer or a bear or a fish or a plant.
Or a fruit or something, like something's life
is ending and it's, you know what, to be honest,
in, in the shooting of the show, Les and Paul
and I talk a lot more about this thing gets
edited into the show.
Right Paul?
We talk about it a lot.
It's, it's.
Yep, daily.
It's really present in everybody bloody episode
where we're talking about interestingly, like just
the ethics of harvesting a tree or the ethics of
harvesting a plant and how we approach nature
and what we, you know, kind of how maybe at what
we should be doing rather than what we're doing.
And so anyway, Paul, do you wanna speak
to that at all?
Like how has that been important to you?
Uh, I, it's, it's great to hear, um, that your,
your take has really been what we've been
desiring from a project.
Uh, and I think one of the biggest wins and
I'll, I know that when Kevin, Les and I are
in the field, I mean, it's, it is organic,
it's legitimate, it's unscripted.
Um, it is just capturing that moment.
But the way that the story's been told
when it comes to the edit, I think really
shows that very well.
And I also have to add, um, the, the timeliness
of this with COVID.
We, we didn't start this knowing that
COVID was going to be a thing and everyone
would just was going to be dealing with it.
But, um, what's been one of the most satisfying
things is to read some of the emails coming
in from, uh, people that have been watching
the show and, and quite a few people.
And this is what shocks me and Kevin.
Has heard me say this a few times.
We've we've got both male and female people
saying your show brought me to tears.
It's about time there's something like this.
I felt connected, I felt part of a bigger picture
watching your show and really that that's
kind of the ambition.
We want people to go outdoors and to breathe
the air, to take a moment acknowledge where
they are in this world.
And, and who we are in this world, what, what
we are as a species, um, might be a little
bit further down a rabbit hole that the
show doesn't speak of.
But we do, as Kevin was saying, when, when we
are together and we're talking about things
and the connectivity of it all, um, how plants
do, you know, there's scientific proof,
proof that plants do.
Communicate to each other, that the forest
looks after the forest.
Um, we're, we're all tuned into to this world.
And you know, when the, the number one battle
right now, um, for our species is fighting
algorithms and the polarization of, of,
uh, politics and how something like COVID
instead of bringing people together, seems
that it's divided people in many ways.
And that's, that's not.
Really the place that we want to exist.
We want to tell a story about togetherness
and we are a part of a huge collective and
our energies do melt and we do combine and
we are small pieces in a greater sum.
And, um, yeah, with all that being said,
uh, again, to, to hear you say that Travis,
that, that you picked up on that from, from
watching the show, means a lot to, to us.
And, and just one more thing is to, to Les
Stroud's credit, um, he is, uh, highly attentive
to these concepts and he knows that there's,
we have to dribble it into the show.
We can't just hammer this in, like be
preachy about it.
So let's, let's slide those little lines in
there that make people aware that this is
where our head's at.
And without, uh, making the show, you know,
to too spiritual or esoteric or a high
concept and let's try and keep it like on
it's feet on the ground.
So I give him credit for that because we
could spend a lot more time diving into this
uh, but, uh, instead we do it in moderation.
You know, I think there's probably a desire out
there, in moderation.
I think there is a desire, desire there
for people to, uh, to hear more of that.
Maybe, maybe it's not on the Wild Harvest show.
I mean, you got to speak to that algorithm and you
got to speak to, if you want to get the message
out, you want to be able to do it in a way where
people will actually be watching and listening.
But, uh, I wonder if a Wild Harvest, uh, around
the campfire wild harvest outtakes, or just those
conversations that happen outside, I think are,
are very important.
And I think there is a desire that people
want to hear about that because that whole idea
of interconnectedness and, uh, the spirituality
of all of that, the esoteric sort of concept
behind all of that.
Is something that has sort of been missing
from the conversation for, for some time.
And I think when I talk to other people, I do
get the sense that there is a craving for that.
Yeah.
And that there's an you talk, you don't
have to talk to money outdoorsmen with a lot
of experience that, to, to find that, um, that
spirituality seep in again, that discussion.
Spirituality that would have existed a few you
know, a few hundred years ago by default
in any, you know, any group of people that
live connected to the outside and connected
to the world in a very different way.
Um, yeah, we certainly went through a disconnect
period, but I don't, I don't disagree with you.
There's an appetite for it.
I would say we dive a little deeper into it
in From The Wild, as far as challenging, kind
of some of the ideas.
Uh, like challenging, lots of ideas,
everything from like the militarization of
hunting with camouflage and night vision and.
Drones.
Semi-automatic weapons and drones.
Yeah.
To, um, you know, to, to those kinds of things,
those kinds of concepts about our connectedness
to nature and that, uh, and the oneness
of, of the whole thing.
So, uh, we do, we do dabble it in that series
because we have, uh, you know, I don't know,
just kind of a broader mandate, I suppose.
And so it, it, it does get found there, but I
don't disagree with you.
There's probably an entire series that
needs to be built just around that idea.
Well, is there any, I'm looking at the time
here and a conscious of the listeners want
to make sure that, uh, on their drive in
they're able to get most of the conversation.
Uh, is there anything else that we should
be touching on?
Oh, I don't know.
Uh, Kevin, can you think of anything?
Uh, nope.
No, we've covered a lot of ground.
Um, I'll leave it in squarely in your, in your
lap Travis, as far as what you want to cover.
Okay.
I, if people want to watch your show, uh, how,
how can they do that?
I'll dive into that.
Um, Wild Harvest is currently airing on
400 plus PBS stations in the United States.
Uh, so it's being aired by American public
television all over the place, uh, on PBS.
And, um, so it's there, it's about to air, um,
on National Geographic, Pacific, Asia Pacific.
Uh, so it'll be in that market for a while,
and these are fairly long licensing terms.
So.
Uh, the show will get looped by, you know,
different stations at different times.
So the timing isn't exactly, you know,
a specific thing.
That's hard to pin down for folks, but they'll
have to look it up in their, in their region.
Um, From The wild is on, on, uh, Vimeo on demand
and always has been.
So that's, uh, eat most easily found
at our website, uh, FromTheWild.ca has
all the links to all the seasons.
We've got seven of those being, uh, kind of up
and ready to watch now.
And am I missing anything, Paul?
Uh, YouTube.
Oh, yeah.
Yeah, they're just, they're on this uh,
Survivorman, Les Stroud Survivorman, I think
is the YouTube channel and my right Paul?
Yep.
And then there's a playlist, uh, there with
the wild, Wild Harvest being aired in, or
aired, or, uh, available online where we're not
geo blocked, uh, which is a term that means
that if you're being aired, for example, in
the United States, we can't air that on YouTube
in the United States.
So that's available in Canada, on YouTube
and other countries.
Excellent.
Well, Paul, Kevin, thank you very much
for being on The Silvercore Podcast.
I really enjoyed speaking with the two of you.
Yeah.
Likewise.
Thanks for having us.
Yeah, me too.
It was a pleasure.