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Anja: Welcome to the Honest Money
Show a big thanks to our sponsor.

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Shop Bitcoin Australia for
making today's episode possible.

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Hello.

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So joining me today is Mike.

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Mike is a Bitcoin educator, and he's
got a channel on YouTube called Bitcoin.

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Straight up.

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Welcome to Honest Money Show.

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Mike.

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Mike: Thanks for really good to be here.

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Anja: I really wanted to share some
of the success of your channel, which

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I'm really, really impressed with.

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And I'll also share the backstory
of how I came across you with my

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audience and with you as well.

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So, um, Bitcoin straight up.

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You started in June.

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This year you already have over 4,500
subscribers and you've hit nearly

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a, well, nearly 2000, um, views.

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Essentially you're like around
at 184,000, which is just amazing

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for such a short amount of time.

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And how I came across your profile, I
was cooking dinner, I had a normie over

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and um, they were very interested in
Bitcoin, so they were flicking through

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YouTube and I was getting really nervous
that they were gonna come across.

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Some scammy influencer and they put her
on your channel and I'm kind of cooking

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and I'm listening, and I heard you say
something like, I'm gonna try to explain

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everything about Bitcoin in two hours.

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And I was like, oh, well done.

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Like good luck with that challenge.

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And I'm tuning in, I'm thinking this man
really knows what he's talking about.

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And when you were talking like alluding
to the difficulty adjustment, I just kind

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of knew straight away that you actually
knew Bitcoin and understood it quite well.

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And I found your channel so
addictive and so fun to listen

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to and so accurate as well.

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So, um, yes, that's
kind of, that's awesome.

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My intro.

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I'd love to know what prompted
you to start your channel.

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Mike: Yeah, sure.

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Um, well I actually went to Prague,
I went to Bitcoin Prague, um, in,

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it would've been around the time.

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It was literally like, I think the day
I got back, I published my first video.

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I'd already had some.

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I had like those 10 videos in my head.

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And to be, to be frank, like I
only did them because the amount

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of friends and family that had
like, maybe asked questions.

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And then I'd explained it, and
then I came away and been like,

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oh, I've explained that so badly.

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I was like, you know, and I was just
like, well, if I just spent some time

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and put together what I wanted to say,
I feel like I could do it way better.

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And so that's what I did.

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Like, I just had those 10 videos where
I, I just hadn't seen them anywhere else.

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And I was like, I've got these
things in my head that I've

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tried to explain to people.

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And so I was like, I'm just gonna,
I'm gonna just spend so much time that

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they, they took ages, I'm not gonna lie.

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Like they took so much time to come
up with the ideas and the concepts and

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the script and putting them together.

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Um, but that was, that was the only
reason why I started the channel was

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just to like, then give them to my
friend and be like, watch this, please.

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This is what I'm trying to say.

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And it's condensed in a way
that isn't just rambling for.

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Ages because there's tons of
podcasts, there's tons of, you know,

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deep dives that you can go into.

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But I, I personally found it was very hard
to send someone like a, a 10 minute video

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or a 20 minute video, which summarized
most things that I wanted to say.

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Um, so yeah, that two hour one
that you, you found is, um, or your

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friend found is just a, it's the
compilation of those 10 videos.

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And then I, but then what I started
to realize is so many people were

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commenting on videos and saying,
oh, I've shared this with a friend.

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And I was like, but that is just useless.

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You can't send this sixth one of
the 10 part series to someone.

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It, it won't make sense.

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Like, it might peak their curiosity
and they'll be like, oh, that's nice.

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And then they'll get on with their day
and they'll forget about it and they

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won't, they won't do anything else.

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Whereas you need to see, you need to
see the whole journey and the whole

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process really, I thought anyway,
for, for it to actually actually work.

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So that's why I just ended
up putting them all together.

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And then it can be.

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Here you go.

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This is, this is everything in two hours.

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It's obviously not everything.

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You can't cover everything about
Bitcoin in two hours, but I think it

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covers all of the basics as much as you
can if you, if you know what I mean.

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Um, in my opinion anyway, it was
all, everything that I wanted to

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say to my friends and family anyway.

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Anja: Yeah.

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And it takes real skill to distill so
much information and give people like

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a bite-sized elevator pitch of Bitcoin.

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I know that's always the hardest
thing to do because people, you

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know, wanna know, okay, what's
the value proposition of Bitcoin?

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It's like, well, it's not that simple.

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There's so many different aspects
you can take it in and yeah,

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it's just really, really hard.

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So it takes real skill and I think
the numbers that you are achieving

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speak for themselves, um, it
really is high signal channel.

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I, I really, really like it.

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Um, I'm curious to know
what is your background?

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Mike: I'm a teacher, I'm a PE teacher.

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So yeah, I think in the first couple
of videos that I did, I didn't include

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them in the two hour compilation
just 'cause I knew they, they were

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literally made for friends and family.

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You know, it is like showing them
that I, I was a massive skeptic.

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So it's not like I've got here by just
blindly being like, oh, one day I'm

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just gonna go all in on Bitcoin, or, you
know, it is, that's not how it happened.

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So those first two videos kind of showed a
bit of that background and just explained

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like, how I got there, but I figured it
w it wouldn't have worked in that two

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hour one because people just wanted,
you know, that that video was made more

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like if some random person found it.

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This is everything I want
to explain about Bitcoin.

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So understanding my story
wouldn't have been useful.

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But yeah, that's, I, I was a PE teacher.

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We actually moved to Qatar in
the Middle East, so my wife and I

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were there for like eight years.

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Um.

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And yeah, just while I was there, i,
I, I became obsessed with money, really

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obsessed with like, the history of money.

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And this was like maybe 20 14,
15 and that then I led, that

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led me to like gold and silver.

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So I was very much like gold is the
answer, but it's quite like black

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pilley I found, you know, it is not
very, it was very, it make, it's

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quite dark and it makes you feel
like, oh, the world is so messed up

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and it was a little bit like this.

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Even though I feel like gold is gonna
be okay and it's gonna help, it's,

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it is still not gonna fix anything.

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Like, because it's, it's already been
manipulated, it's already been controlled.

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You can't just move back onto
a gold standard and expect

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everything to go back to.

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Like Austrian economics and everything.

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It's just not, it's not realistically
going to work in this like digital age.

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Um, so yeah, then I'm, I heard about
Bitcoin around that time, but I was

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very much like, this is a massive scam.

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I think bought it a little bit at
like 2017 when it was going crazy.

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So I think I maybe bought it around
like $8,000 or something, but not

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like hardly anything just because
I was like, something's happening

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here and I need to figure it out.

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I dunno about you, but I, I only learned
about things if I've got some sort

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of skin in the game or some reason to
actually learn about it a bit more.

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And then obviously 2018 happened and I
was like, yeah, this is definitely a scam.

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I was right.

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It was, it was definitely
not, not gonna work.

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Kind of fell for all the obvious scams
that probably everyone goes through

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and, well, not everyone, I suppose now
I think there's a bit more awareness of

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it, but back then it was very much like,
oh, there's this digital money, which

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is just making people rich and, and then
there's things that offering you 10%

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return a month for forever or like 15%.

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Well, I can't really remember what it
was, but I remember falling for one of

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those, again, not putting much in it,
but like, oh yeah, well, that this seems

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to be like a, a better way of buying
Bitcoin rather than just buying Bitcoin.

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But um, yeah, that's kind of how
I sort of stumbled in into it all.

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So it was really just a deep
research into how broken the

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money was that that led me there.

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Anja: That is so interesting because
yeah, for hearing you speak, um, about

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your story, it seems obvious that you
knew very early on what the problem was.

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But you, as you say, even in 2018, you
were convinced that Bitcoin is a scam

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after that, after it crashed after 2017.

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And I'm curious to know, 'cause
I also read that you, uh, called

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Bitcoin digital tulips back in 2018.

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Yeah.

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I'm curious to know what finally was it
that kind of set you off to think that,

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hey, there's something more to this.

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Mike: Yeah, so I'm, I'm quite analytical,
so, um, what I ended up doing is just

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putting, just, I made this massive
spreadsheet of all the ways that Bitcoin

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could fail or it could be a scam, or
it could just be, you know, useless.

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And so going through that and
then literally doing a deep dive

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on each of my points, I was.

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It was just like every time I was
like ticking 'em off and being like,

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yeah, that's not actually a threat.

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And, you know, that's
not actually a threat.

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And so I, I did a, like, in, in that
two hour one, there is a, well, there's

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one video on all the threats or the
ways that Bitcoin could fail really.

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And I do still see there's like a
potential couple, I know a lot of

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people in the Bitcoin space are very
much like, yeah, there's no threats.

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But I think it's, um, for me anyway,
again, that's something that I've found

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was lacking in the Bitcoin space is, you
know, like the Michael Saylor who just,

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they just focus only on the positive.

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And he's obviously done so
much for the Bitcoin space.

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But me personally, personally
being like analytical, I

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wanna know what the risks are.

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Like I don't want someone
to just sidestep them.

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I want you to tell me like what are the
actual risks and explain why they're

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not actual risks, you know, so that's.

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It was basically me doing that
myself, which arguably is better

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than someone else explaining to you.

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Um, that then eventually I
was just like, I don't see any

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real massive risks to this.

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Like, you know, or massive threats
that is gonna stop Bitcoin.

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The, the, the kind of like I, I
mentioned before we hit record as well.

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The, the only one that I still really see
is because obviously the, the, I mean,

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I don't wanna get the conspiracy theory,
everything's so early, but it the, if

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there is like this deep state or people
that are controlling the money supply,

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which I think most people in the Bitcoin
space are aware of that there is, there's

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some sort of control to the whole system.

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Who it is what it is.

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We don't necessarily know
exactly, but they're not just

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gonna give up that control.

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'cause obviously it's so
beneficial to them to.

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Have this control, like to,
to have the money printer to

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be able to be closer to it.

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There's so much benefits,
which we don't need to go into.

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But, um, again, I'm sure most listeners
already know what those are, but my

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point was always that, well, they're
not just gonna hand over control,

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so how are they going to break this?

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Like, how, what are they
going to do to stop this?

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Um, and I think it's like, you know,
the Simon Dixons and people of the,

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in the Bitcoin space, I feel, I feel
like they're, that's the angle where

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I can see what they're trying to do at
the minute with the ETFs and things.

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I think they're just trying to
control as much of it and o get,

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own as much of it as possible.

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And then that's potentially
where the risks could come from.

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But from being in the Bitcoin space
and, you know, going to more, more and

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more meetups, going to more conferences
and things like that, it's, it's opened

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my eyes to how many people already
understand this and it's only getting

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more and more, you know, like, so even.

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For myself, I've only started running
a node this year, and so that's another

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person that's been added to the network.

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And there's, there's multiple people
that I've met over these past few

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months who have done exactly the same.

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Only in this last year, they've started
running a node, and most people hold

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it in self custody at these events, but
not, not everyone, you know, there's

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still definitely people that hold it
in ETFs or in custody of some sort,

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you know, or some sort of exchange.

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00:12:33,192 --> 00:12:38,892
So basically, as long as more and
more people keep running nodes,

222
00:12:38,982 --> 00:12:43,152
keep self custody in it, it really
doesn't matter what, what they do.

223
00:12:43,722 --> 00:12:49,212
The issue is, is if they can make it
so incentivized to put your, to sell

224
00:12:49,272 --> 00:12:53,952
yourself custody Bitcoin, put it into
an ETF, then I could see that could

225
00:12:53,952 --> 00:12:55,542
be potentially where the issue is.

226
00:12:56,112 --> 00:12:58,152
But I feel like the cat's out the bag now.

227
00:12:58,182 --> 00:13:01,512
Like I feel like there's too many
people that know this and that

228
00:13:01,512 --> 00:13:02,712
I'm not just going to do that.

229
00:13:04,137 --> 00:13:06,747
Yeah, I mean that, that's
kind of what convinced me.

230
00:13:06,747 --> 00:13:08,457
It was like, I don't, I
don't see any real risks.

231
00:13:09,897 --> 00:13:10,167
Anja: Yeah.

232
00:13:10,167 --> 00:13:11,517
So that's interesting.

233
00:13:11,517 --> 00:13:15,687
So do you essentially think
that decentralization is, sorry,

234
00:13:15,777 --> 00:13:18,537
centralization is the biggest risk?

235
00:13:19,137 --> 00:13:22,557
Um, or what would you say?

236
00:13:22,557 --> 00:13:23,847
Like how would you summarize?

237
00:13:24,657 --> 00:13:28,647
Mike: Yeah, it's pretty much all the
risks are centralization of some sort.

238
00:13:28,647 --> 00:13:34,137
So, you know, Jeff Booth always
says the, the five rules of Bitcoin,

239
00:13:34,137 --> 00:13:37,707
and if it stays those five rules,
then it is the global free market.

240
00:13:37,707 --> 00:13:38,967
It will reprice everything.

241
00:13:39,327 --> 00:13:45,357
And really when you peel back those five
things, so I, I remember them using dopes.

242
00:13:45,387 --> 00:13:48,147
That's the, I just use the
acronym like, 'cause I've come

243
00:13:48,147 --> 00:13:49,377
from that teaching background.

244
00:13:49,377 --> 00:13:50,817
I always, 'cause I, I forgot.

245
00:13:50,817 --> 00:13:50,967
I know two.

246
00:13:52,077 --> 00:13:54,957
Yeah, well I, because that's the thing
is like, there's just five rules, but

247
00:13:54,957 --> 00:13:56,097
it's like, what are those five rules?

248
00:13:56,307 --> 00:13:57,867
Go on, let's see if you
can remember them all.

249
00:13:57,897 --> 00:13:59,157
So secure

250
00:13:59,157 --> 00:14:00,237
Anja: and decentralized.

251
00:14:00,237 --> 00:14:00,537
That's.

252
00:14:01,302 --> 00:14:02,172
So they're the two,

253
00:14:02,322 --> 00:14:03,222
Mike: two big ones?

254
00:14:03,222 --> 00:14:03,282
Yeah.

255
00:14:03,612 --> 00:14:04,392
What would o be?

256
00:14:04,392 --> 00:14:05,112
Anja: I don't know.

257
00:14:06,822 --> 00:14:08,292
OI don't know.

258
00:14:08,802 --> 00:14:09,282
Mike: Open.

259
00:14:09,282 --> 00:14:10,392
So it's an open network?

260
00:14:11,142 --> 00:14:11,802
Anja: Open?

261
00:14:11,892 --> 00:14:12,132
Yeah.

262
00:14:12,192 --> 00:14:12,612
Okay.

263
00:14:12,612 --> 00:14:14,292
Mike: PP is a protocol.

264
00:14:14,382 --> 00:14:18,432
So it's a protocol, which means
that there can only be one.

265
00:14:18,882 --> 00:14:21,822
Uh, and, and that as well a
deep dive in the protocol.

266
00:14:21,972 --> 00:14:25,842
I didn't really truly understand Bitcoin
until I understood what a protocol was.

267
00:14:25,902 --> 00:14:27,672
So it's the same with the internet.

268
00:14:28,032 --> 00:14:29,982
There, there's, there's only one internet.

269
00:14:29,982 --> 00:14:34,362
We can't have like multiple internets,
uh, because you know, you actually

270
00:14:34,362 --> 00:14:36,252
have to lay the physical cables.

271
00:14:36,342 --> 00:14:37,632
And it's the same way with Bitcoin.

272
00:14:37,692 --> 00:14:41,412
You have the physical infrastructure
of like the miners and the nodes, and

273
00:14:41,412 --> 00:14:46,782
they don't, those miners can't just
switch to Casper or whatever other.

274
00:14:47,727 --> 00:14:49,257
S coin, I dunno if you can swear on.

275
00:14:49,767 --> 00:14:51,147
So, uh, you know, oh

276
00:14:51,327 --> 00:14:51,777
Anja: we do.

277
00:14:51,777 --> 00:14:55,107
Where This is an Australian podcast,
so swearing is very welcome.

278
00:14:55,527 --> 00:14:56,007
Mike: Oh yeah.

279
00:14:56,007 --> 00:14:58,857
So you can't have any other shit
coin that these miners just change

280
00:14:58,857 --> 00:15:03,747
it onto, so it is, uh, that's, that's
the point of a protocol really, is

281
00:15:03,747 --> 00:15:07,377
that it was the understanding that
infrastructure behind it is that, oh,

282
00:15:07,377 --> 00:15:12,477
okay, this is what, this is why Bitcoin
is so secure and so decentralized.

283
00:15:12,747 --> 00:15:14,847
And then e is energy bound.

284
00:15:14,937 --> 00:15:19,077
So it is bounded by energy, so it's
actually tied to the physical real world.

285
00:15:19,707 --> 00:15:23,877
So, I mean, you can't argue that it's
en energy bound it, that is just a fact.

286
00:15:23,877 --> 00:15:24,747
It's proof of work.

287
00:15:25,257 --> 00:15:29,817
The miners do do the work,
and that's what makes it run.

288
00:15:29,847 --> 00:15:33,267
You know, that that's what, that's how
each new block is mined and everything.

289
00:15:34,167 --> 00:15:34,617
Um.

290
00:15:35,022 --> 00:15:39,612
You can't argue that it's a protocol,
it is a set of rules that can no, that

291
00:15:39,612 --> 00:15:43,932
is, if you don't abide by those rules,
you are not on the Bitcoin network.

292
00:15:43,962 --> 00:15:47,562
It's kind of like black and white and
there can't be another one because

293
00:15:47,562 --> 00:15:48,762
of the infrastructure as well.

294
00:15:48,762 --> 00:15:53,112
So that's, that was the bit that really
for me, it was like, oh yeah, that's,

295
00:15:53,112 --> 00:15:54,582
that's another penny drop moment.

296
00:15:55,422 --> 00:15:59,892
You can't argue that it's open, like
anyone can use it without permission.

297
00:16:00,372 --> 00:16:05,172
Even in countries that have banned, it's
already been proven, you know, people do

298
00:16:05,172 --> 00:16:07,332
use it and, and will continue to use it.

299
00:16:07,332 --> 00:16:11,322
So there's not really anything that
governments or anyone can do about it.

300
00:16:12,072 --> 00:16:14,622
And then, so it's really the big
two, like the, the two that you said,

301
00:16:14,622 --> 00:16:16,422
decentralized, secure, and decentralized.

302
00:16:16,422 --> 00:16:20,652
And really, as long as it stays
decentralized, it is going to be secure.

303
00:16:21,072 --> 00:16:27,042
So it's, it's really all falls down to
the decentralized, as long as it stays

304
00:16:27,042 --> 00:16:32,262
decentralized, which like I already said,
as long as people keep running a node, as

305
00:16:32,262 --> 00:16:34,032
long as people keep self custody in it.

306
00:16:34,587 --> 00:16:36,477
There is nothing that can break this.

307
00:16:37,137 --> 00:16:44,847
And so that realization was like,
okay, you know, so why am I, why am

308
00:16:44,847 --> 00:16:47,487
I still like not understanding this?

309
00:16:47,487 --> 00:16:50,907
This literally is the first global
free market that's ever existed.

310
00:16:51,357 --> 00:16:55,107
Like if you just peel it all back to
first principles, then from where I

311
00:16:55,107 --> 00:16:59,547
stand anyway, as long as it has, if
something, if anything has those five

312
00:16:59,547 --> 00:17:02,097
rules, that would be a global free market.

313
00:17:02,127 --> 00:17:02,157
'cause

314
00:17:04,287 --> 00:17:08,847
it would be, so that's, that's really
where, where I was like, yeah, it

315
00:17:08,847 --> 00:17:10,527
just went full conviction mode.

316
00:17:10,527 --> 00:17:13,167
Once I understood those five
rules, I was like, yeah, this is

317
00:17:13,347 --> 00:17:15,027
actually a global free market.

318
00:17:15,027 --> 00:17:18,417
And once you understand a global free
market, everything is going to get

319
00:17:18,417 --> 00:17:20,187
cheaper within that global free market.

320
00:17:20,187 --> 00:17:24,057
So if you live in a Bitcoin
standard, everything in your life

321
00:17:24,057 --> 00:17:25,377
is just gonna get cheaper over time.

322
00:17:26,847 --> 00:17:27,807
And it's pretty exciting.

323
00:17:27,807 --> 00:17:30,597
It's like, you know,
compared to like the gold.

324
00:17:31,347 --> 00:17:36,777
Sort of black pilling that I went through
before the orange pill is like, oh my God,

325
00:17:36,777 --> 00:17:39,747
this is actually massive fu for humanity.

326
00:17:39,807 --> 00:17:42,807
This is way bigger than
just me stacking SATs.

327
00:17:42,807 --> 00:17:48,447
This is this, this is gonna help everyone
as long as it stays decentralized.

328
00:17:48,537 --> 00:17:48,627
So,

329
00:17:49,947 --> 00:17:50,247
Anja: yeah.

330
00:17:50,932 --> 00:17:51,292
Absolutely.

331
00:17:51,552 --> 00:17:56,187
And is that what motivates you to,
you know, do this sort of education?

332
00:17:56,217 --> 00:17:58,497
Um, is that kind of like Yeah.

333
00:17:58,497 --> 00:17:59,907
What's your motivation behind it?

334
00:17:59,967 --> 00:18:02,787
Mike: Yeah, I mean, those,
those first 10 videos, I had no

335
00:18:02,787 --> 00:18:04,467
expectations or anything for them.

336
00:18:04,467 --> 00:18:08,217
And then as the people just started
sharing and some of the comments and

337
00:18:08,217 --> 00:18:10,737
feedback I was getting, I was like,
oh, okay, this is actually helpful.

338
00:18:10,857 --> 00:18:15,417
And I didn't realize it was actually
gonna be useful for lots of people.

339
00:18:15,867 --> 00:18:18,447
And so when I got to the end
of those 10 videos, I was like,

340
00:18:18,837 --> 00:18:20,187
I've actually quite enjoyed this.

341
00:18:20,187 --> 00:18:24,447
It's been like quite fun to do so,
and I've got loads of other stuff

342
00:18:24,447 --> 00:18:25,647
that I could talk about as well.

343
00:18:25,647 --> 00:18:27,837
So there's, there's so
many other angles where.

344
00:18:28,602 --> 00:18:32,742
I see that people haven't really touched
on, um, for example, like the global free

345
00:18:32,742 --> 00:18:37,152
market thing, like Jeff Booth talks about
it quite a lot, but you don't really

346
00:18:37,152 --> 00:18:39,132
see anyone coming at it from that angle.

347
00:18:39,222 --> 00:18:45,132
Um, and so if you can prove that,
and so like that's actually within

348
00:18:45,132 --> 00:18:47,802
the next couple of weeks, I will
have like, that's, that'll be my next

349
00:18:47,802 --> 00:18:52,002
like two hour one will be Bitcoin
is the first global gimme two hours.

350
00:18:52,242 --> 00:18:54,192
I'll prove that it is the
first global free market.

351
00:18:54,192 --> 00:18:57,402
And I'll go through exactly
what kind of what I've just said

352
00:18:57,402 --> 00:19:01,482
there, but more in detail and like
attacking each of those five things.

353
00:19:01,482 --> 00:19:05,472
So rather than just being like, yeah,
it's decentralized, let's move on,

354
00:19:05,472 --> 00:19:07,272
it's like, no, why is it decentralized?

355
00:19:07,272 --> 00:19:09,282
What are the things that
make it decentralized?

356
00:19:09,282 --> 00:19:12,462
And is there anything that can
make it not become decentralized?

357
00:19:12,462 --> 00:19:17,472
So really it all boils down to that
one threat that I say like that I see,

358
00:19:17,592 --> 00:19:22,242
which is institutions doing whatever
it is that they're doing at the

359
00:19:22,272 --> 00:19:24,312
minute to try and accumulate as much.

360
00:19:24,822 --> 00:19:28,542
Um, and that to be, to put that
in black and white as well.

361
00:19:28,662 --> 00:19:33,012
The threat that I see from that is
that if they were, I, I dunno what the

362
00:19:33,012 --> 00:19:36,882
percentage would be, but let's just say
they control the vast majority of Bitcoin.

363
00:19:36,912 --> 00:19:40,662
So everyone just sells all their
self custody, holds it in BlackRock,

364
00:19:40,722 --> 00:19:42,882
E BlackRock, ETF or whatever it is.

365
00:19:43,692 --> 00:19:50,352
Um, when that is the case then if there
was some sort of fork, so a lot of

366
00:19:50,352 --> 00:19:55,272
this debate around the whole knots core
thing and the bit 4, 4 4 and everything.

367
00:19:55,302 --> 00:19:57,432
I dunno if much has come up in that.

368
00:19:57,432 --> 00:20:01,152
And I know you said you were just at a,
a conference for the last few days, but I

369
00:20:01,152 --> 00:20:02,397
dunno if that's much of a, there is always

370
00:20:02,397 --> 00:20:04,032
Anja: a knots versus core debate.

371
00:20:04,437 --> 00:20:07,422
Happen in the community and just
when we don't think it's, we're

372
00:20:07,422 --> 00:20:10,062
not, we're gonna talk about it,
we do end up talking about it.

373
00:20:10,272 --> 00:20:13,572
We just, usually the first day
of the, the three day event is

374
00:20:13,572 --> 00:20:17,952
a bit devs and surprisingly it
did not get mentioned in there.

375
00:20:17,952 --> 00:20:20,262
But then during the main
events, of course it did.

376
00:20:20,262 --> 00:20:22,752
So there's, it's never gonna not come up.

377
00:20:22,752 --> 00:20:27,432
And it's interesting because, um, we do
have some of the really, like, some of

378
00:20:27,432 --> 00:20:31,302
the most strong Bitcoiners in Australia.

379
00:20:31,692 --> 00:20:36,582
Um, and some are pro core, some are
pro knots, and there's people on both

380
00:20:36,582 --> 00:20:39,432
sides of the debate that I, um, respect.

381
00:20:39,432 --> 00:20:41,532
But I've never done the deep dive myself.

382
00:20:41,532 --> 00:20:44,772
I actually just got a note, so
I'll have to, I'll have to do it.

383
00:20:44,832 --> 00:20:49,602
Um, now that I kind of have some
skin in the game, um, as you say.

384
00:20:49,602 --> 00:20:50,082
But yeah.

385
00:20:51,252 --> 00:20:51,642
Mike: Yeah.

386
00:20:51,762 --> 00:20:57,942
Um, but I mean, like, just for example,
the, the whole bit 4, 4 4 proposal

387
00:20:57,942 --> 00:21:02,622
is potentially gonna be like a soft
walk, which would actually change

388
00:21:02,892 --> 00:21:04,692
the direction that Bitcoin goes.

389
00:21:04,692 --> 00:21:08,202
And it changes the rules on the
consensus level, which is like

390
00:21:08,517 --> 00:21:10,932
that they are the main rules.

391
00:21:11,022 --> 00:21:16,002
So all this argument around core knots, it
doesn't to, from where I stand anyway, I

392
00:21:16,002 --> 00:21:22,242
don't think it really matters whether you
run a core or knots node because that's

393
00:21:22,242 --> 00:21:25,932
only on the, what's the other layer?

394
00:21:26,082 --> 00:21:26,922
Pro the protocol?

395
00:21:26,982 --> 00:21:27,912
No, not the protocol.

396
00:21:28,452 --> 00:21:30,822
The, the other layer,
my mind's gone blank.

397
00:21:31,002 --> 00:21:33,762
So there's the consensus layer and
then there's obviously this layer,

398
00:21:33,762 --> 00:21:38,442
which you're not actually changing
it, it's not gonna change anything.

399
00:21:38,562 --> 00:21:41,592
You, it, it, it will change
what you personally filter

400
00:21:41,832 --> 00:21:43,842
in running through your node.

401
00:21:43,902 --> 00:21:48,192
And so I totally appreciate why a lot of
people say, I'm going to run knots because

402
00:21:48,192 --> 00:21:50,172
I don't want any of this other stuff.

403
00:21:50,682 --> 00:21:51,432
Running through it.

404
00:21:51,702 --> 00:21:57,342
However, just diving into it a little
bit more, I've realized like it, it

405
00:21:57,342 --> 00:21:59,862
could have some other detrimental impact.

406
00:21:59,862 --> 00:22:03,402
I don't, I don't fully understand all
the technicalities, and I've never, never

407
00:22:03,402 --> 00:22:05,172
tried, never tried to pretend that I do.

408
00:22:05,652 --> 00:22:10,062
Um, but I think there's, there's
more to it than just, oh, it,

409
00:22:10,122 --> 00:22:11,262
I'm not gonna run it on my nodes.

410
00:22:11,262 --> 00:22:16,032
So that, that solves everything because
it, it, well, it doesn't, and also,

411
00:22:16,632 --> 00:22:22,062
um, it can have other implications
as well, like if there's not enough

412
00:22:22,062 --> 00:22:25,932
people running the same thing because
it just means things get left in the

413
00:22:25,932 --> 00:22:27,882
memo and it becomes messy or something.

414
00:22:28,782 --> 00:22:31,722
But whether the core knots thing
is not the important thing.

415
00:22:31,812 --> 00:22:35,382
The important thing here that though,
that I see is that whenever a soft

416
00:22:35,382 --> 00:22:40,482
fork does come up, it just means that
whoever, BlackRock or the institutions

417
00:22:40,482 --> 00:22:46,572
or whoever decides to run with, then
everyone that has their Bitcoin held

418
00:22:46,782 --> 00:22:50,052
by that institution is automatically.

419
00:22:50,397 --> 00:22:53,007
Being you, you are being
chosen, which way you go.

420
00:22:53,037 --> 00:22:55,317
You have no voice in which way you go.

421
00:22:55,317 --> 00:22:57,747
Whereas if you run your own
node, you can literally choose.

422
00:22:58,167 --> 00:23:02,397
So that's, that's like the vote,
that's what keeps it decentralized.

423
00:23:02,907 --> 00:23:05,427
Um, so that's really
where the threat happens.

424
00:23:05,427 --> 00:23:08,307
And it might only be like a
small change initially and it

425
00:23:08,397 --> 00:23:09,747
changes bitcoin a little bit.

426
00:23:09,747 --> 00:23:13,947
And then I think this is what a lot of
people are worried about with the whole

427
00:23:13,947 --> 00:23:16,647
core knots debate at the minute, is
people just like, just keep it the same,

428
00:23:16,647 --> 00:23:18,057
you know, stop, stop messing with it.

429
00:23:18,597 --> 00:23:22,827
Um, whereas I think from the
other side it's like, well, you

430
00:23:22,827 --> 00:23:25,557
have to keep improving Bitcoin.

431
00:23:25,557 --> 00:23:29,487
You can't just leave it because you know,
at some stage things like quantum will

432
00:23:29,487 --> 00:23:33,417
be a threat and we need to be able to
make sure we can actually change it as a

433
00:23:33,417 --> 00:23:38,607
community to make sure it stays quantum
resistant or whatever the next threat is.

434
00:23:38,607 --> 00:23:45,147
So I think that's pretty much both sides
sum summarized as simply as possible.

435
00:23:45,147 --> 00:23:47,877
But that's, that's kind
of what I mean though, on.

436
00:23:48,867 --> 00:23:53,847
If it does get too decentralized, I see
that as the threat further down the road.

437
00:23:55,137 --> 00:23:55,617
Anja: Yeah.

438
00:23:55,857 --> 00:24:01,107
And would you like to just quickly explain
at a very high level what BIP 4 4, 4 is

439
00:24:01,677 --> 00:24:02,422
Mike: Not really to the audience.

440
00:24:04,052 --> 00:24:06,062
It's, it's very, it seems quite confus.

441
00:24:06,062 --> 00:24:09,927
It is basically a BIP is a
Bitcoin improvement proposal.

442
00:24:09,957 --> 00:24:14,997
So that's how new things are added to
Bitcoin's, like code and everything.

443
00:24:15,417 --> 00:24:20,127
Um, I haven't gone too much into bit
4, 4, 4, but the people that I have

444
00:24:20,127 --> 00:24:23,937
spoke to who are far more technical
than me, they have said like there's

445
00:24:23,937 --> 00:24:28,737
not really any, like, it doesn't even
have the code that would be changed.

446
00:24:29,277 --> 00:24:34,287
Um, so it's very, uh, philosophical,
like the proposed change.

447
00:24:34,917 --> 00:24:39,087
And I think one of the big
concerns I have around it is that

448
00:24:39,087 --> 00:24:42,087
it sounds like once something.

449
00:24:42,552 --> 00:24:43,902
Enters Bitcoin.

450
00:24:43,932 --> 00:24:48,942
So one of these, the worst case scenario,
you know, like CSAM or you know, some,

451
00:24:49,662 --> 00:24:52,002
some illicit material enters Bitcoin.

452
00:24:52,482 --> 00:24:57,612
When that enters, then they will go
back and do a soft walk off there,

453
00:24:57,642 --> 00:25:03,852
which basically means, for me anyway, it
removes one of Bitcoin's main core things,

454
00:25:03,852 --> 00:25:10,212
which is it, it's immutability where
you can't change what goes on Bitcoin.

455
00:25:10,332 --> 00:25:13,452
So if something's immutable, it just
means it's gonna be there forever.

456
00:25:13,602 --> 00:25:16,122
And that's one of the massive things
about Bitcoin and that's, that's

457
00:25:16,122 --> 00:25:20,982
why a lot of this spam or whatever
it is that people wanna call it, is

458
00:25:21,012 --> 00:25:23,982
entering it is because people know
that is gonna be there forever.

459
00:25:24,012 --> 00:25:25,632
You can't change, can't change it.

460
00:25:26,412 --> 00:25:33,102
Um, as soon as someone has a say in,
we can now go back and change the rules

461
00:25:33,972 --> 00:25:39,462
because of something has entered that we
don't like then that massively changes.

462
00:25:40,077 --> 00:25:41,487
A big part of Bitcoin.

463
00:25:41,487 --> 00:25:47,067
So with the proposal at the
moment, it sounds like it's

464
00:25:47,847 --> 00:25:48,477
Speaker 3: not a

465
00:25:48,477 --> 00:25:52,647
Mike: good one, but if there was a
way that you could just prevent spam

466
00:25:52,647 --> 00:25:57,057
and just leave it only as monetary
transactions, then that would be great.

467
00:25:57,117 --> 00:26:00,477
But as far as I'm aware at the minute,
I don't think that really exists.

468
00:26:00,627 --> 00:26:03,567
It's just there's too many ways,
there's too many workarounds and

469
00:26:03,597 --> 00:26:07,227
ways that people can put whatever
they want on the blockchain.

470
00:26:08,277 --> 00:26:09,897
I think really the bottom line is,

471
00:26:12,657 --> 00:26:16,602
which has already happened, if you
look at things like NFTs on Ethereum

472
00:26:16,602 --> 00:26:22,737
in 2021, most people now know that
they're just a scam and don't buy

473
00:26:22,737 --> 00:26:24,477
them for millions of dollars because.

474
00:26:25,167 --> 00:26:25,737
It's a scam.

475
00:26:26,187 --> 00:26:28,407
Like people have realized that
there's just no point in this.

476
00:26:28,407 --> 00:26:31,887
What's, what's the point in
holding a picture of a monkey

477
00:26:31,887 --> 00:26:33,807
on my computer for you?

478
00:26:33,807 --> 00:26:37,197
Remember like the celebrities buying
them for like millions in 2021 and stuff.

479
00:26:37,827 --> 00:26:42,057
So eventually people just realize that
and then they, there is no demand for it.

480
00:26:42,057 --> 00:26:45,987
And so the money dries up and it
just stops happening sort of thing.

481
00:26:46,527 --> 00:26:51,597
Um, which again, is an overly simplified
one of the arguments from core side.

482
00:26:51,597 --> 00:26:55,917
But I think really that is the more
that I've dug into it, because I,

483
00:26:55,922 --> 00:26:58,977
I came at it very much from like,
you know, Bitcoin's money and stop

484
00:26:58,977 --> 00:27:00,687
messing with it and, and everything.

485
00:27:00,747 --> 00:27:04,722
And then it, it sort of made me,
as I've learned more about it, it

486
00:27:04,727 --> 00:27:09,087
made me realize actually no, it is a
permissionless network that is immutable.

487
00:27:09,087 --> 00:27:11,817
And if we start changing that,
you're changing one of the

488
00:27:11,817 --> 00:27:15,267
main things of Bitcoin, which
then what else could change?

489
00:27:15,477 --> 00:27:19,497
Um, and that's again, going back
to what I was saying about like.

490
00:27:19,902 --> 00:27:21,372
Centralized thinking.

491
00:27:21,462 --> 00:27:24,732
As soon as we get anything
that's centralized in Bitcoin,

492
00:27:24,732 --> 00:27:27,972
that's where the real threats
are from, from my perspective.

493
00:27:27,972 --> 00:27:28,272
Anyway.

494
00:27:28,512 --> 00:27:30,822
Anja: Yeah, that's,
that's really interesting.

495
00:27:32,082 --> 00:27:35,682
I don't have an opinion on it, so I
can't follow up, but I know that at

496
00:27:35,682 --> 00:27:39,132
the bit devs just gone, this was one
of the main things that was talked

497
00:27:39,132 --> 00:27:41,442
about and I missed that entire day.

498
00:27:44,772 --> 00:27:47,802
I try to stay away from the more
technical topics 'cause I'm just

499
00:27:47,802 --> 00:27:51,642
like, I don't feel I can contribute
as much to the, to the discussion,

500
00:27:51,642 --> 00:27:56,262
but one day I'm still working my way
through the philosophical arguments.

501
00:27:57,132 --> 00:28:00,402
Mike: Yeah, I mean that was
exactly the same as me as well.

502
00:28:00,402 --> 00:28:02,592
It's like I didn't really want
to have anything to do with this.

503
00:28:02,592 --> 00:28:07,092
'cause I'd seen so many like messy
arguments going on about it and I

504
00:28:07,092 --> 00:28:11,712
was just like, well, it doesn't, I
dunno enough like, you know, and then.

505
00:28:12,102 --> 00:28:16,002
It was just so many people were
asking in the comments on tho like,

506
00:28:16,002 --> 00:28:17,562
those first like 10 videos of it.

507
00:28:17,562 --> 00:28:21,102
Can you just explain like what's
going, because so many people just

508
00:28:21,102 --> 00:28:22,572
didn't understand what was going on.

509
00:28:22,572 --> 00:28:26,337
And then I knew some of it and I'd done
some research and I was like, I feel

510
00:28:26,337 --> 00:28:31,722
like I could probably explain this better
than what has been out there so far.

511
00:28:31,992 --> 00:28:34,212
And then, yeah, it just
opened a whole can of worms.

512
00:28:34,212 --> 00:28:35,862
Then I, I got humbled.

513
00:28:35,862 --> 00:28:38,532
I was like, oh my God, there's
so much I don't understand.

514
00:28:38,532 --> 00:28:40,272
And then I had to learn way more.

515
00:28:40,272 --> 00:28:45,612
And then, yeah, it's just, it is a
whole other rabbit hole in itself.

516
00:28:45,762 --> 00:28:50,112
Um, but equally it's just like I'm, I've
got to a stage where I kind of feel like

517
00:28:50,112 --> 00:28:55,152
it's not really a threat now personally,
and it's like I don't really want to

518
00:28:55,152 --> 00:29:00,012
keep going round in circles because you
just keep having the same, it's just like

519
00:29:00,012 --> 00:29:01,842
the same argument over and over again.

520
00:29:01,842 --> 00:29:02,082
Reasoning.

521
00:29:02,217 --> 00:29:02,457
Anja: Yeah.

522
00:29:02,622 --> 00:29:03,252
Mike: Yeah.

523
00:29:03,252 --> 00:29:06,132
And it's just, you just keep
going round and round in circles.

524
00:29:06,132 --> 00:29:09,432
And I think that's what is
really hard about it is that.

525
00:29:10,167 --> 00:29:13,467
I think both sides are coming
at it from a really good place.

526
00:29:13,467 --> 00:29:15,027
They actually want the best for Bitcoin.

527
00:29:15,717 --> 00:29:19,347
Um, and it just shows how many people
do really care about it as well.

528
00:29:19,347 --> 00:29:24,057
So like, I think it's a, it has been
quite a good thing to see like how many

529
00:29:24,057 --> 00:29:28,317
people are really passionate about it
and really want to keep Bitcoin secure.

530
00:29:28,317 --> 00:29:28,377
Um,

531
00:29:30,987 --> 00:29:36,087
but I think the big issue is, is that
to really understand this debate, it's

532
00:29:36,087 --> 00:29:40,677
almost like you have to be like developer
level, you know, code, understand code

533
00:29:40,677 --> 00:29:47,997
and understand so many techy aspects of it
to really be able to truly understand it.

534
00:29:48,447 --> 00:29:51,597
And a lot of like the knot side, as
soon as you say that, the knot side

535
00:29:51,597 --> 00:29:54,747
will be like, oh yeah, but that's just
people like, you know, putting the

536
00:29:54,747 --> 00:29:58,917
plebs down and like, we we're smarter
than that and we can figure stuff out.

537
00:29:58,917 --> 00:30:01,527
And it's like, I get, and I
get that thinking as well.

538
00:30:01,527 --> 00:30:05,727
'cause like I say, I really did come at
it from the knot side originally, so.

539
00:30:06,657 --> 00:30:08,637
That's exactly what I was thinking
as well, was like, well just

540
00:30:08,637 --> 00:30:11,517
explain it to me, like someone just
explain it to me and then I can

541
00:30:11,517 --> 00:30:13,737
understand it and then it'll be okay.

542
00:30:14,247 --> 00:30:14,697
Sort of things.

543
00:30:15,807 --> 00:30:19,137
Um, but yeah, it is, that
is is a massive rabbit hole.

544
00:30:19,977 --> 00:30:22,947
It's, it's helped me learn a
ton about Bitcoin, to be fair.

545
00:30:23,157 --> 00:30:27,027
You know, on the technical
side of things, again,

546
00:30:27,027 --> 00:30:28,107
Speaker 3: that has been really useful.

547
00:30:29,247 --> 00:30:32,247
I haven't got a book somewhere,
you know, um, what's his name?

548
00:30:32,247 --> 00:30:34,857
Andreas Antonopoulos, his book

549
00:30:35,877 --> 00:30:36,602
Anja: Mastering Bitcoin.

550
00:30:37,617 --> 00:30:39,402
Speaker 3: That's the one that book I

551
00:30:39,472 --> 00:30:41,097
Anja: know I have it too.

552
00:30:42,057 --> 00:30:42,267
Yeah.

553
00:30:42,342 --> 00:30:42,562
Mike: God.

554
00:30:42,662 --> 00:30:45,027
But it is, it is, it's intense.

555
00:30:45,417 --> 00:30:46,077
It really is.

556
00:30:46,077 --> 00:30:50,067
But it's super helpful, just like
he does do things really help,

557
00:30:50,067 --> 00:30:52,917
like, you know, makes like charts
and things and simplifies it.

558
00:30:53,487 --> 00:30:58,107
Um, but yeah, I mean, just the
way that he writes it is complex,

559
00:30:58,287 --> 00:30:59,427
you know, it's like mm-hmm.

560
00:30:59,427 --> 00:31:03,447
It's not an easy read, but
it's, it's super helpful to.

561
00:31:04,017 --> 00:31:07,197
If you are interested in that, but I think
this is the thing as well, is that most

562
00:31:07,197 --> 00:31:11,517
people don't need to know any of this
stuff in the same way that you don't need

563
00:31:11,517 --> 00:31:16,257
to know how your car engine works and
you don't need to know how a plane flies.

564
00:31:16,257 --> 00:31:18,057
You can just go on a plane and use it.

565
00:31:18,057 --> 00:31:18,357
You know?

566
00:31:18,357 --> 00:31:23,817
It's the same thing is that most
people don't need to understand how

567
00:31:23,817 --> 00:31:26,397
Bitcoin works for it to actually be

568
00:31:27,117 --> 00:31:27,627
Anja: useful.

569
00:31:28,017 --> 00:31:28,737
Mike: Useful, yeah.

570
00:31:28,737 --> 00:31:33,957
And rolled out in like mass, mass
adoption and things, so, yeah.

571
00:31:35,187 --> 00:31:39,807
Anja: Need a way to sign, verify
and secure your Bitcoin Australia's

572
00:31:39,807 --> 00:31:41,397
one-stop shop for Bitcoiners.

573
00:31:41,547 --> 00:31:45,987
Has you covered from signing
devices, nodes, and backup solutions?

574
00:31:46,287 --> 00:31:51,312
To bid access day decor and
apparel, visit shop bitcoin.com au.

575
00:31:54,867 --> 00:31:55,047
Yeah.

576
00:31:55,527 --> 00:31:59,937
So with your audience on YouTube, are
you by the way, on any other channels?

577
00:32:00,837 --> 00:32:02,307
Mike: Is it mainly, I use Nasta a bit.

578
00:32:02,637 --> 00:32:04,152
I dunno if you use nasta much, but

579
00:32:04,317 --> 00:32:04,767
Anja: I do.

580
00:32:04,767 --> 00:32:06,897
'cause that's where I, that's
where I reached out course for you.

581
00:32:07,617 --> 00:32:12,267
Um, and again, funny experience for
the Normie that I was with, because we

582
00:32:12,267 --> 00:32:16,977
wa we sat down and we watched the rest
of your, um, show and I was like, I

583
00:32:16,977 --> 00:32:18,627
need to ask him to come on my podcast.

584
00:32:18,627 --> 00:32:21,387
So I just, I was like, I was
trying to, what's his name?

585
00:32:21,387 --> 00:32:22,047
Let me find him.

586
00:32:22,047 --> 00:32:24,747
I was trying to find your Twitter,
but then I saw you, your N pub.

587
00:32:25,422 --> 00:32:29,952
So I immediately went, found your
nosto, sent you a message, and

588
00:32:29,952 --> 00:32:31,752
within two minutes you responded.

589
00:32:31,812 --> 00:32:34,482
And then you went on my
profile and sent me some stats.

590
00:32:34,482 --> 00:32:37,392
And I, like said, said to my friend,
I was like, oh, I just got, he sent me

591
00:32:37,392 --> 00:32:38,867
some Bitcoin, my friend's, like, what?

592
00:32:39,387 --> 00:32:39,637
Speaker 4: Like, yeah.

593
00:32:40,662 --> 00:32:42,882
Anja: Reached out across to
someone across the world and

594
00:32:42,882 --> 00:32:43,902
now they're sending you some.

595
00:32:43,902 --> 00:32:45,702
I'm like, yeah, that's,
that's how we work.

596
00:32:46,272 --> 00:32:47,322
Mike: It's amazing, isn't it?

597
00:32:47,322 --> 00:32:48,252
It's just unreal.

598
00:32:48,252 --> 00:32:50,682
Like, it doesn't make any
sense to a normie does it?

599
00:32:50,682 --> 00:32:53,712
It's like that just what,
he's just sent you some money,

600
00:32:53,712 --> 00:32:55,062
like, you know, but that's,

601
00:32:55,482 --> 00:32:55,662
Anja: I know,

602
00:32:56,322 --> 00:32:57,867
Mike: it's just a whole
level world, isn't it?

603
00:32:57,872 --> 00:32:58,902
It is incredible.

604
00:32:58,992 --> 00:33:01,482
And it, but that, that's
why I'm only on Gnostic.

605
00:33:01,662 --> 00:33:05,442
I do have a Twitter, but I, I
mean, I haven't used it for years.

606
00:33:05,532 --> 00:33:11,802
I, I probably like 20 20 20, 20 21, you
know, COVID time, that sort of stuff.

607
00:33:11,862 --> 00:33:14,352
I really did a massive
detox on social media.

608
00:33:14,382 --> 00:33:17,742
'cause I was just like, ah, it's
just, there's not much good that

609
00:33:17,742 --> 00:33:19,302
comes from it is what I realized.

610
00:33:19,932 --> 00:33:24,252
Um, and so I just haven't
really used it for years.

611
00:33:24,312 --> 00:33:24,792
And then.

612
00:33:25,377 --> 00:33:28,737
When I went to Prague, I then learned
more about Nasta and I was like,

613
00:33:28,737 --> 00:33:30,627
oh, I'm gonna, I'm gonna get it.

614
00:33:30,627 --> 00:33:33,537
But I've already found myself like,
you know, like you said, you reached

615
00:33:33,537 --> 00:33:35,667
out to me and I replied really quickly.

616
00:33:35,667 --> 00:33:39,957
I've already found myself ended up
becoming, like checking my phone and,

617
00:33:39,957 --> 00:33:43,587
you know, that that dopamine hits
still exists, even if it's nasta, even

618
00:33:43,587 --> 00:33:45,567
if it is a decentralized platform.

619
00:33:45,567 --> 00:33:51,717
So it's, it's, I dunno, I dunno, I dunno
what the answer is to social media, but

620
00:33:51,717 --> 00:33:59,157
um, yeah, that's really the, the only
place is YouTube and, and Nasta, I think

621
00:33:59,157 --> 00:34:01,707
I've heard Jeff Booth say this as well
before, is like, I only want to put

622
00:34:01,707 --> 00:34:06,297
my time into places where I can see it
being like beneficial and where I can

623
00:34:06,297 --> 00:34:08,007
see like, the future that I wanna see.

624
00:34:08,097 --> 00:34:11,547
And so that is literally, it is
like Bitcoin and no, there is, there

625
00:34:11,547 --> 00:34:15,507
isn't really at the minute anywhere
else that I put my time, other than

626
00:34:15,897 --> 00:34:17,817
I still have like a actual job.

627
00:34:17,817 --> 00:34:20,307
So like, you know, which pays
the bills and everything.

628
00:34:20,307 --> 00:34:23,367
So that's really where my,
my time goes at the minute.

629
00:34:24,657 --> 00:34:25,047
Anja: Yeah.

630
00:34:25,407 --> 00:34:29,487
And I was going to ask you for your
YouTube channel, would you say your

631
00:34:29,487 --> 00:34:35,037
audience is mostly like Bitcoin curious
or Bitcoiners, or do you get like complete

632
00:34:35,037 --> 00:34:37,887
nubs, um, interested in your channel?

633
00:34:38,457 --> 00:34:39,897
Mike: Yeah, a bit, bit of both.

634
00:34:39,987 --> 00:34:44,667
Um, I really like, I, I love it
when I get a new poster, a comment,

635
00:34:44,667 --> 00:34:47,307
especially if they, they've
like, thought about something.

636
00:34:47,367 --> 00:34:51,447
I'm like, yes, this is, like, this is
exactly what, and so I always try and

637
00:34:51,447 --> 00:34:56,667
spend more time if someone actually
asks a question, even if it's say, even

638
00:34:56,667 --> 00:35:00,477
if it seems stupid, or even if I've
already seen that question like 10 times.

639
00:35:00,507 --> 00:35:03,417
It's like, because I remember
being in that position.

640
00:35:03,447 --> 00:35:07,107
Like I remember how it feels to
sort of be like, yeah, but what

641
00:35:07,107 --> 00:35:08,217
about this or what about that?

642
00:35:08,217 --> 00:35:11,427
And I, I, so I, I really
love it when I see that.

643
00:35:11,427 --> 00:35:14,967
But yeah, I mean obviously you
just end up attracting Bitcoiners.

644
00:35:14,967 --> 00:35:17,427
And I think the other
thing as well is that.

645
00:35:18,912 --> 00:35:21,222
I've heard before something like
every, for every comment that you

646
00:35:21,222 --> 00:35:24,372
receive, you probably have like 50
or a hundred people thinking the same

647
00:35:24,372 --> 00:35:25,572
thing that don't leave a comment.

648
00:35:26,172 --> 00:35:27,132
I dunno how true that is.

649
00:35:27,132 --> 00:35:27,822
I've just made that up.

650
00:35:27,822 --> 00:35:34,362
But, um, that's what I've sort, sort
of found as well is that I found,

651
00:35:34,362 --> 00:35:37,842
like from the Bitcoin space, you
get more comments from Bitcoins.

652
00:35:37,987 --> 00:35:40,182
They're, they're like supportive
and they're like, oh, this is really

653
00:35:40,182 --> 00:35:42,012
good and I want, sort of share this.

654
00:35:42,372 --> 00:35:47,742
Whereas from Normies or Noobs, they, I
think a lot of them just will come watch

655
00:35:47,742 --> 00:35:50,922
it and then leave because they're like,
I don't wanna be associated with this.

656
00:35:51,312 --> 00:35:51,942
It's just, yeah.

657
00:35:52,002 --> 00:35:53,262
You know, they're still figuring it out.

658
00:35:53,262 --> 00:35:58,662
So, um, it's hard, it's hard to say
exactly, but yeah, most comments

659
00:35:58,662 --> 00:36:02,562
do come from Bitcoiners or people
that already kind of understand it.

660
00:36:03,492 --> 00:36:08,952
Uh, but it's definitely more, that's how
I think I want to position the channel

661
00:36:08,952 --> 00:36:10,962
as well, as much more beginner focus.

662
00:36:10,992 --> 00:36:13,482
'cause like I say, I feel like
there's a lot of podcasts, like in

663
00:36:13,482 --> 00:36:16,242
depth stuff and there's a lot more.

664
00:36:17,067 --> 00:36:19,467
Places for Bitcoin is to
get content these days.

665
00:36:20,007 --> 00:36:24,147
Uh, whereas I still haven't seen, there's
actually one other channel, I dunno

666
00:36:24,147 --> 00:36:26,547
if you've seen the exit manual, Julian

667
00:36:27,567 --> 00:36:27,777
Anja: something.

668
00:36:27,777 --> 00:36:29,037
Oh, I'm gonna write it down.

669
00:36:29,127 --> 00:36:29,367
Um, I've

670
00:36:29,367 --> 00:36:30,177
Mike: gotta watch his channel.

671
00:36:30,177 --> 00:36:35,217
His, his is way better than mine, way
better or is, is incredible what he

672
00:36:35,217 --> 00:36:36,537
is because he is an actual YouTuber.

673
00:36:36,657 --> 00:36:41,277
Whereas I'm like just some guy who
is mish smashing stuff together

674
00:36:41,337 --> 00:36:45,417
and, you know, watched some
held to YouTube videos before.

675
00:36:45,417 --> 00:36:48,057
But I'm not, I haven't come from like
a YouTube background or anything.

676
00:36:48,057 --> 00:36:51,357
Like I said, I'm a PE
teacher, you know, it is.

677
00:36:51,357 --> 00:36:57,447
Uh, so that's, his stuff is really,
but like, that, that really excites me

678
00:36:57,447 --> 00:37:02,697
is like he's actually getting so many
newbies coming into the space and like

679
00:37:03,537 --> 00:37:08,307
there's so many creators now that are
actually educating people properly.

680
00:37:08,307 --> 00:37:11,247
And it's like, I can see
like how this could be.

681
00:37:12,912 --> 00:37:18,012
It would just help that snowball,
when people actually are given good

682
00:37:18,012 --> 00:37:22,752
information in a concise way, they'll
be a lot more receptive to it.

683
00:37:23,022 --> 00:37:29,262
Whereas I think, you know, even this time
four years ago, there was so little, like

684
00:37:29,262 --> 00:37:31,752
there was even so few podcasts and stuff.

685
00:37:31,752 --> 00:37:36,972
So I think even in these last, really
in this last ball run, there's just

686
00:37:36,972 --> 00:37:42,132
been so many better co content creators
and stuff coming into the space.

687
00:37:42,132 --> 00:37:45,732
So it, it can only help with the
education side of things really.

688
00:37:47,262 --> 00:37:47,562
Anja: Yeah.

689
00:37:47,562 --> 00:37:51,462
And I have heard people say, I can't
remember exactly who to attribute this

690
00:37:51,462 --> 00:37:57,102
to, but um, people have said that adoption
from here on is not going to be price led.

691
00:37:57,102 --> 00:37:58,722
It's going to be narrative led.

692
00:37:58,722 --> 00:38:02,082
And the more storytellers and
and creative people that we have

693
00:38:02,082 --> 00:38:04,092
in this space, the better it is.

694
00:38:04,422 --> 00:38:09,372
Um, one of the issues that I had
studying my, um, podcast was I was

695
00:38:09,372 --> 00:38:10,752
like, well, who would listen to me?

696
00:38:10,752 --> 00:38:12,912
I don't have a traditional
finance background.

697
00:38:12,912 --> 00:38:13,842
I'm just a girl.

698
00:38:13,842 --> 00:38:17,382
I'm still learning myself,
um, who would listen to me.

699
00:38:17,382 --> 00:38:20,052
But then I get people saying, I
love how you explain this, or,

700
00:38:20,052 --> 00:38:21,102
I love how you explain that.

701
00:38:21,102 --> 00:38:24,972
And, you know, I think it's nice
also to see like a female-led

702
00:38:24,972 --> 00:38:26,502
voice, especially in Australia.

703
00:38:26,532 --> 00:38:29,922
'cause we've only had one, um,
podcast through in Australia and

704
00:38:29,922 --> 00:38:33,582
she's no longer doing it because
it just is very time consuming.

705
00:38:33,942 --> 00:38:36,492
Um, especially when you have
guests on and you have to like, do

706
00:38:36,492 --> 00:38:40,602
research on them, read their books,
and it, it takes a lot of time.

707
00:38:40,602 --> 00:38:41,352
And, um.

708
00:38:42,222 --> 00:38:46,512
I don't know what the future of my channel
is, but I've also had some, not many,

709
00:38:46,512 --> 00:38:52,452
it's mostly Bitcoiners, but I have had
some, um, newbies interested in, again,

710
00:38:52,542 --> 00:38:59,532
uh, even though it is somewhat beginner
friendly, I'm kind of having conversation

711
00:38:59,532 --> 00:39:03,822
with people, um, with the assumption that
they have some basic understanding of it.

712
00:39:04,122 --> 00:39:07,542
And a lot of people who are, you
know, new to Bitcoin, they need

713
00:39:07,542 --> 00:39:09,462
to go right back to the beginning.

714
00:39:09,822 --> 00:39:12,642
Um, so it still comes across
as very jargon, even though

715
00:39:12,642 --> 00:39:13,842
that's not my intention.

716
00:39:14,412 --> 00:39:19,152
Um, so I might need to yeah, create
like some sort of introductory series

717
00:39:19,452 --> 00:39:23,682
myself that, you know, they can go
to and come back and listen to the

718
00:39:23,682 --> 00:39:25,962
podcast if that's what's interest them.

719
00:39:26,412 --> 00:39:29,172
Mike: Yeah, I guess what's so hard is
when you have guests on is obviously

720
00:39:29,172 --> 00:39:32,832
you can't control what they say, and
so they will just speak in whatever

721
00:39:32,832 --> 00:39:34,302
language comes across to them.

722
00:39:34,302 --> 00:39:34,542
So.

723
00:39:35,412 --> 00:39:38,172
Like you say, they will just use
jargon and they might not even

724
00:39:38,172 --> 00:39:39,612
realize that they're using jargon.

725
00:39:40,032 --> 00:39:43,992
And so again, this is something that
I've learned from doing a deep dive

726
00:39:43,992 --> 00:39:49,512
into like the Knots core stuff, is that
once I then understood a lot of things,

727
00:39:49,932 --> 00:39:55,542
um, from what core was trying to say,
as in literally like a week before,

728
00:39:55,542 --> 00:39:57,252
I had no idea what this word meant.

729
00:39:57,282 --> 00:40:03,012
And then I started like just flippantly
using this word, you know, such as

730
00:40:03,012 --> 00:40:07,602
like BRC 20 or inscription and you
know, like all of these things where

731
00:40:08,052 --> 00:40:10,542
if you're not from the bitcoin world's,
like what are you talking about?

732
00:40:11,352 --> 00:40:11,592
You know?

733
00:40:11,592 --> 00:40:15,342
And so literally within a week I sort
of went from not even knowing what these

734
00:40:15,342 --> 00:40:19,392
things were to then just using them in
passing and then being like, hang on, no,

735
00:40:19,842 --> 00:40:21,132
people don't understand what that means.

736
00:40:21,132 --> 00:40:24,642
And then sort of having to
backtrack again and then explain

737
00:40:24,642 --> 00:40:26,142
like, this thing is part of this.

738
00:40:26,142 --> 00:40:28,782
And, you know, so it's, it is super hard.

739
00:40:28,812 --> 00:40:31,752
It's super, super hard to, um.

740
00:40:32,442 --> 00:40:34,422
To always keep it beginner friendly.

741
00:40:34,482 --> 00:40:40,452
So I think there's like a bit of a
balancing act of trying to keep it so

742
00:40:40,452 --> 00:40:44,262
that beginners can really understand,
but then people that are at that next

743
00:40:44,262 --> 00:40:48,402
step, because really I'd even class
myself as a beginner, you know, like

744
00:40:49,032 --> 00:40:54,522
there's still, I'm only scratching the
surface on what, what Bitcoin really

745
00:40:54,522 --> 00:40:56,292
is and like all of the layers to it.

746
00:40:56,292 --> 00:41:02,412
So it is, it's not like I see myself
as some expert or anything in, in the

747
00:41:02,412 --> 00:41:07,032
area, it's just more I know how much
time and effort I've put in and I feel

748
00:41:07,032 --> 00:41:11,442
like I could actually help people that
are starting from zero to get there

749
00:41:11,442 --> 00:41:12,882
quicker, if you know what I mean.

750
00:41:12,882 --> 00:41:16,932
So that's, and, and that would be the
same thing with your podcast as well,

751
00:41:17,022 --> 00:41:18,582
and I think you're exactly right as well.

752
00:41:18,582 --> 00:41:23,442
There's, there's so few females
in the space that it, it's just

753
00:41:23,442 --> 00:41:24,972
so beneficial each time that.

754
00:41:25,797 --> 00:41:29,547
Anyone comes into the space, it,
it's just always gonna be beneficial.

755
00:41:29,607 --> 00:41:34,197
Even though I said there's loads of
Bitcoin podcasts, it's still, it's still

756
00:41:34,197 --> 00:41:36,327
like not enough, if that makes sense.

757
00:41:36,957 --> 00:41:41,097
You know, we still need way more because
everyone has their own person that they

758
00:41:41,097 --> 00:41:46,227
will relate to or will be able to learn
something from in a different way.

759
00:41:46,677 --> 00:41:50,367
That you could have a hundred people
say exactly the same thing about Bitcoin

760
00:41:50,787 --> 00:41:55,377
and you might only relate to one or
two of them, or you might only take

761
00:41:55,377 --> 00:41:59,337
it in from one or two, or they use
the analogy or whatever it is, or one

762
00:41:59,337 --> 00:42:01,917
little story that makes something click.

763
00:42:02,997 --> 00:42:04,317
Um, but yeah.

764
00:42:05,187 --> 00:42:05,487
Anja: Yeah.

765
00:42:05,667 --> 00:42:06,357
So true.

766
00:42:06,747 --> 00:42:10,167
And I'd love to know the people in
your life, your wife, for example,

767
00:42:10,167 --> 00:42:14,517
is she a Bitcoin or is she more like,
is this a crazy hobby of yours or

768
00:42:17,097 --> 00:42:17,907
Mike: a bit of both?

769
00:42:20,547 --> 00:42:23,577
Um, she, she gets.

770
00:42:24,642 --> 00:42:32,112
I'm saying, uh, she, she won't even
watch my videos, but she, she'll,

771
00:42:32,112 --> 00:42:33,612
she'll watch an occasional one.

772
00:42:33,612 --> 00:42:34,872
I'll be like, you've gotta watch this one.

773
00:42:34,872 --> 00:42:37,722
Just, just, you know, so
like, what, what is Bitcoin?

774
00:42:37,782 --> 00:42:41,652
I've, I've made her watch that a couple
of times 'cause I'm like, I think probably

775
00:42:41,652 --> 00:42:43,002
you have to understand this at least.

776
00:42:43,482 --> 00:42:48,852
Um, but yeah, she's, she's very
much like, she's super supportive.

777
00:42:49,062 --> 00:42:52,902
I think that's what is, she's always,
and always has been, you know, like

778
00:42:52,902 --> 00:42:55,572
moving abroad was very much like my idea.

779
00:42:55,632 --> 00:43:00,102
And then she came on board with
it and then, and then it was more

780
00:43:00,102 --> 00:43:02,772
like she wanted to stay where I
was more like, oh, let's go back.

781
00:43:02,772 --> 00:43:03,822
And she's like, no, I wanna stay now.

782
00:43:03,852 --> 00:43:09,012
You know, so she's, she's always been
super, super supportive with anything

783
00:43:09,207 --> 00:43:12,732
that, that I do, even though I'm seen
as crazy to most of my friends now.

784
00:43:12,732 --> 00:43:16,272
But, um, she, she's very understanding.

785
00:43:16,422 --> 00:43:23,652
Uh, and she, she definitely gets the
idea, but she, yeah, she's not like.

786
00:43:24,777 --> 00:43:27,422
Probably like me or you
in, in Bitcoin sense.

787
00:43:27,422 --> 00:43:32,337
Like she wouldn't, she wouldn't have like
that much of a, a deep care about it.

788
00:43:32,337 --> 00:43:34,467
It's like, yeah, Bitcoin, Bitcoin's cool.

789
00:43:34,617 --> 00:43:36,747
Bitcoin makes sense, but that's it.

790
00:43:37,197 --> 00:43:37,462
You know?

791
00:43:37,522 --> 00:43:37,742
So

792
00:43:39,087 --> 00:43:42,747
Anja: yeah, my parents think I'm
absolutely like, they're like, why

793
00:43:42,777 --> 00:43:44,007
do you care about this so much?

794
00:43:44,007 --> 00:43:46,857
Especially my mom, my dad's
more, more supportive 'cause

795
00:43:46,857 --> 00:43:48,387
he's like, I love this for you.

796
00:43:48,387 --> 00:43:49,797
You found your passion.

797
00:43:49,797 --> 00:43:55,347
And my mom's like, why are you burning
out trying to teach people or, yeah.

798
00:43:55,797 --> 00:43:56,097
It's

799
00:43:56,097 --> 00:43:57,222
Mike: just, I love it.

800
00:43:57,292 --> 00:43:57,582
Yeah.

801
00:43:57,587 --> 00:43:59,277
Well I haven't even told my parents.

802
00:43:59,907 --> 00:44:02,127
So that's, that's how supportive they are.

803
00:44:02,607 --> 00:44:07,797
Well, there's this just 'cause I've,
I've multiple times dropped Bitcoin, you

804
00:44:07,797 --> 00:44:11,787
know, and tried to explain bits to my
dad and he's not receptive of it at all.

805
00:44:12,687 --> 00:44:16,497
What I'm actually thinking of doing
is sitting down with them and I'm

806
00:44:16,497 --> 00:44:17,937
gonna see if I can record it as well.

807
00:44:17,967 --> 00:44:19,077
'cause I think this would be amazing.

808
00:44:19,107 --> 00:44:20,937
Like if I can actually sit
down with him and show them

809
00:44:20,937 --> 00:44:22,647
that two hour video and like.

810
00:44:23,007 --> 00:44:27,417
Pause it, let them have conversation
around it and stuff, just because

811
00:44:27,417 --> 00:44:28,677
I think it's that important.

812
00:44:28,677 --> 00:44:31,287
But the time is not right just yet.

813
00:44:31,347 --> 00:44:34,647
Like, I, I just need to,
when when the time's Right.

814
00:44:34,707 --> 00:44:38,847
You know, because like I say, I haven't
even told them that I, I have this

815
00:44:38,847 --> 00:44:45,117
channel, a big part of why I did it was
for them, but it needs to be like, I

816
00:44:45,117 --> 00:44:47,277
can't just WhatsApp that, that to them.

817
00:44:47,577 --> 00:44:49,377
They will literally be
like, you are crazy.

818
00:44:49,377 --> 00:44:50,157
What are you doing?

819
00:44:50,157 --> 00:44:52,017
Like, you know, why are you doing this?

820
00:44:52,317 --> 00:44:54,087
They, they won't even
really like take it in.

821
00:44:54,087 --> 00:44:56,847
I need to actually sit down with
them and, and show it to them.

822
00:44:58,227 --> 00:45:04,137
Um, I think I have sent it to like my, my
sisters and some other close, but again,

823
00:45:04,827 --> 00:45:09,297
haven't really had any questions for my
sisters, so I've never pushed anything.

824
00:45:09,297 --> 00:45:12,027
I've just been like, I'd really
appreciate if you watched this one video.

825
00:45:12,027 --> 00:45:12,717
It's like 10 minutes.

826
00:45:13,287 --> 00:45:17,787
That's it, you know, just to see if it
peaks the curiosity and then I'll allow

827
00:45:17,787 --> 00:45:19,527
people to come back to me and then.

828
00:45:19,872 --> 00:45:24,702
We can have a chat if they want to, like,
because there's nothing worse than trying

829
00:45:24,702 --> 00:45:26,892
to, it's almost like a religion, isn't it?

830
00:45:27,552 --> 00:45:31,212
Fine, you know, people, people see it
as you're in like this cult or something

831
00:45:31,212 --> 00:45:33,282
that they're trying to get them in.

832
00:45:33,282 --> 00:45:35,292
And most people are like,
are you in a Ponzi scheme?

833
00:45:35,292 --> 00:45:37,092
Like, are you just, you
know, doing some sort

834
00:45:37,092 --> 00:45:37,722
Speaker 4: of pyramid?

835
00:45:38,082 --> 00:45:39,852
Are you in a MLM trying to sell me?

836
00:45:39,852 --> 00:45:42,582
Like, what are they called?

837
00:45:42,852 --> 00:45:44,802
Arbon or whatever the MLM things are.

838
00:45:45,487 --> 00:45:48,132
I'm like, oh man, no, no I'm not.

839
00:45:50,352 --> 00:45:51,252
But uh, yeah,

840
00:45:51,407 --> 00:45:52,482
Anja: so it's so funny.

841
00:45:52,482 --> 00:45:57,132
But in where you live now in your local
community, are, are you involved in any

842
00:45:57,132 --> 00:45:59,112
like local meetups or things like that?

843
00:45:59,112 --> 00:46:01,632
You do have other Bitcoin is,
you're not all alone like,

844
00:46:02,322 --> 00:46:05,952
Mike: yeah, finally, but I, again,
really only since starting the channel,

845
00:46:06,432 --> 00:46:09,702
I dunno why, like, I've just been putting
it off because I was like, oh, there's

846
00:46:09,702 --> 00:46:14,562
gonna be just like, it's gonna be five
weirdos and I'm just gonna have to speak.

847
00:46:14,562 --> 00:46:15,882
But then I just.

848
00:46:15,942 --> 00:46:18,852
I put my big poy pants and
eventually went to one.

849
00:46:18,852 --> 00:46:21,612
So yeah, there's one that's
like an hour away that I go to.

850
00:46:22,092 --> 00:46:27,222
Um, I really should, like, I, I'm like
an hour away from like four or five.

851
00:46:27,222 --> 00:46:31,002
I should go to others as well, but I just
haven't again got wrapped, you know, it

852
00:46:31,002 --> 00:46:35,502
is time and stuff isn't there, you know,
family life and all that sort of stuff.

853
00:46:35,502 --> 00:46:39,852
So, um, but yeah, I've
been going to conferences.

854
00:46:39,852 --> 00:46:43,152
There was one in Manchester like
last weekend, so I went to that.

855
00:46:43,272 --> 00:46:43,902
That was really cool.

856
00:46:43,902 --> 00:46:46,902
There was another one in another
place in England where I went to,

857
00:46:46,902 --> 00:46:51,882
so I've gone to way more in-person
things and it has helped massively.

858
00:46:51,942 --> 00:46:58,692
And actually, um, I do a, a podcast with
TC who does like the road to one Bitcoin.

859
00:46:58,722 --> 00:47:00,192
He's got a really good channel actually.

860
00:47:00,732 --> 00:47:08,037
Um, and I. We are, we are going to
speak to some farmers like next month.

861
00:47:08,037 --> 00:47:08,847
That's amazing.

862
00:47:08,847 --> 00:47:09,897
'cause they're interested.

863
00:47:09,897 --> 00:47:13,437
And so yeah, it's things like that
where I'm really excited about.

864
00:47:13,497 --> 00:47:14,787
I'm like super excited.

865
00:47:14,787 --> 00:47:18,507
You know, if you can actually get,
just even from a purely selfish

866
00:47:18,507 --> 00:47:23,577
point of view, like if I can buy
food using Bitcoin that's massive.

867
00:47:23,577 --> 00:47:27,897
Like that is literally, you're
like 90% of the way there to

868
00:47:27,987 --> 00:47:29,127
being in the circular economy.

869
00:47:29,127 --> 00:47:32,697
Like that's really the only expense
that you need other than shelter

870
00:47:33,357 --> 00:47:35,847
each month that the only thing
that you really need is food.

871
00:47:36,147 --> 00:47:39,972
So if I can find someone to buy
food from using vehicle Bitcoin,

872
00:47:39,972 --> 00:47:42,147
and then that would be huge.

873
00:47:42,477 --> 00:47:43,617
So, yeah, I'm excited about that.

874
00:47:44,577 --> 00:47:48,777
Anja: We have a butcher in, in Northern
Rivers here that accepts Bitcoin.

875
00:47:48,837 --> 00:47:53,427
Um, but as I told you before you joined
the call, we're planning an event next

876
00:47:53,427 --> 00:47:58,257
year and we wanna get more producers in
the region to start accepting Bitcoin.

877
00:47:58,557 --> 00:48:02,277
Um, but I love that you're doing something
for the farmers because, um, the talk

878
00:48:02,277 --> 00:48:07,047
that I did at the Bush Bash just gone,
uh, was about Bitcoin adoption, and

879
00:48:07,047 --> 00:48:09,477
I kind of focused on three key areas.

880
00:48:09,477 --> 00:48:11,427
The first one is user experience.

881
00:48:11,817 --> 00:48:15,417
The second one is reaching into,
like tapping into subcultures.

882
00:48:15,927 --> 00:48:19,527
And you know, things like I
use some case studies from, um,

883
00:48:20,007 --> 00:48:21,507
Bitcoin based in New Zealand.

884
00:48:22,257 --> 00:48:26,397
They have put together, um,
curated bitcoin educational

885
00:48:26,397 --> 00:48:28,257
sessions just for farmers.

886
00:48:28,587 --> 00:48:33,537
So again, it's taking their unique
situation, needs, desires into

887
00:48:33,537 --> 00:48:35,577
context and applying Bitcoin to that.

888
00:48:35,787 --> 00:48:40,032
A lot of farmers are obviously very like
weather dependent or seasoned dependent.

889
00:48:40,992 --> 00:48:45,132
You know, so kind of understanding hard
money principles really benefits them.

890
00:48:45,492 --> 00:48:50,082
Um, and then the third topic was more
about like, how can we start, um,

891
00:48:50,112 --> 00:48:54,132
engaging with the crypto community
because they're already halfway converted.

892
00:48:54,132 --> 00:48:54,702
They're just.

893
00:48:55,332 --> 00:48:57,942
Haven't heard an opposing view.

894
00:48:58,002 --> 00:48:59,622
A lot of them would be very open.

895
00:48:59,622 --> 00:49:04,992
Some are so deep in, in, in trying to
sell their tokens that they obviously

896
00:49:04,992 --> 00:49:08,172
would be the less, um, open-minded ones.

897
00:49:08,172 --> 00:49:12,402
But there's heaps that are kind of
like, I've had friends that are, you

898
00:49:12,402 --> 00:49:16,062
know, ex shit coins and they're like,
lost a lot of money, shit coining.

899
00:49:16,092 --> 00:49:20,592
And they said, if I just knew
what I know now about Bitcoin, I

900
00:49:20,592 --> 00:49:22,392
could have had so much more money.

901
00:49:22,392 --> 00:49:27,462
And unfortunately, that is the true,
like that is the case for 90% of people.

902
00:49:28,122 --> 00:49:33,012
Um, unless you're some sort of an insider,
which most people aren't, you're probably

903
00:49:33,012 --> 00:49:34,692
gonna, you burn through a lot of money.

904
00:49:35,052 --> 00:49:41,562
Um, but I'm also curious to know
from your YouTube channel, what are

905
00:49:41,562 --> 00:49:47,892
some of the most common, like myths
that you need to bust with nubes?

906
00:49:47,922 --> 00:49:50,922
Like what, what is, what are some of the
persistent things that keep coming up?

907
00:49:51,747 --> 00:49:52,827
Mike: It's a really good question.

908
00:49:52,827 --> 00:49:56,457
I, I, I honestly haven't
found like a common thread.

909
00:49:56,457 --> 00:50:00,657
It has been really, really diverse,
which in some ways is quite good to

910
00:50:00,657 --> 00:50:06,297
see, um, because it's not like, but also
it's not, because if there was a really

911
00:50:06,297 --> 00:50:08,667
obvious one, then I could just make
a video on it and like, there you go.

912
00:50:09,207 --> 00:50:09,837
That one's done.

913
00:50:09,837 --> 00:50:17,817
But, um, yeah, I, I think probably some of
the main things are, um, well, yeah, a lot

914
00:50:17,817 --> 00:50:22,947
of people do come from like, shit corny,
so they just think, well, why, you know,

915
00:50:22,977 --> 00:50:25,137
Casper, I've heard Casper numerous times.

916
00:50:25,137 --> 00:50:25,857
I'm like, oh my God.

917
00:50:26,067 --> 00:50:31,797
And so I did kind of do a video, which
it, it really was more around like why

918
00:50:32,007 --> 00:50:35,967
Bitcoin is a protocol and really digging
into that, like doing deep dive on that.

919
00:50:36,417 --> 00:50:40,377
And really that's the only video that
I would ever send to a ship Coiner.

920
00:50:40,377 --> 00:50:43,597
It's just like, if you watch this
and actually just try and come at it.

921
00:50:44,247 --> 00:50:47,727
Try not to come in with biases, just try
and actually listen to what I'm saying

922
00:50:47,847 --> 00:50:49,167
and then go and do your own research.

923
00:50:49,167 --> 00:50:52,737
Like, I'll even give you links and
stuff to go and do your own research.

924
00:50:53,367 --> 00:50:56,277
Then you can't really argue with it.

925
00:50:56,277 --> 00:51:01,317
Like once you really understand what
the protocol is, then there really

926
00:51:01,317 --> 00:51:04,017
is, everything else is just noise.

927
00:51:04,017 --> 00:51:04,737
It really is.

928
00:51:04,917 --> 00:51:08,607
Um, so yeah, you get, you get
a few people that say that.

929
00:51:08,817 --> 00:51:12,237
A lot of people are just like, oh,
you know, Bitcoin's just a scam.

930
00:51:12,237 --> 00:51:16,617
And like, it's a, you get the, the
standard, like it's a Ponzi scheme.

931
00:51:16,797 --> 00:51:19,707
You can only buy and sell it to,
you can only sell it to someone

932
00:51:19,707 --> 00:51:20,817
that's willing to pay more.

933
00:51:20,847 --> 00:51:24,597
And so it's just kind of like
debunking some of those things.

934
00:51:25,197 --> 00:51:31,317
Um, and a lot of people are so
they, they just still really

935
00:51:31,317 --> 00:51:32,757
believe in the current system.

936
00:51:32,907 --> 00:51:35,157
They, they do not see it as a problem.

937
00:51:35,457 --> 00:51:37,677
They're like, yeah, but
it is you, you know?

938
00:51:37,677 --> 00:51:41,247
So on, on the video, I think I
mentioned something like, how.

939
00:51:42,717 --> 00:51:47,277
Like bank bailouts, you know, and so
Silicon Valley, it had a bailout and,

940
00:51:48,387 --> 00:51:52,947
uh, the big ones in 2008 and you know,
Lehman Brothers and things like that.

941
00:51:53,037 --> 00:51:57,027
And someone commented like, oh yeah,
but that was, you've, you've forgot

942
00:51:57,027 --> 00:52:00,987
to say that was only for like two days
and, and no one actually lost any money.

943
00:52:01,077 --> 00:52:05,192
And it's like, you're missing the point
that is not, you know, there's, there's,

944
00:52:05,427 --> 00:52:09,897
I could list so many other countries where
they have lost their money and stuff.

945
00:52:09,897 --> 00:52:14,187
I'm just kind of showing you the
facts that it is fragile and it

946
00:52:14,187 --> 00:52:16,797
doesn't mean that it's, you're
not going to in the future.

947
00:52:17,037 --> 00:52:19,047
It doesn't mean it is going
to be safe in the future.

948
00:52:19,107 --> 00:52:21,507
I mean, and then a lot of people
are, oh yeah, it's backed by the

949
00:52:21,507 --> 00:52:24,267
government and they can just print the
money and give the money back to you.

950
00:52:24,267 --> 00:52:26,427
It's like, but do you not
understand that's the issue?

951
00:52:26,457 --> 00:52:29,697
Like you are literally
devaluing everyone's money.

952
00:52:29,697 --> 00:52:33,237
You know, when, when they do
that, there's actually a video

953
00:52:33,237 --> 00:52:34,647
I just stumbled across recently.

954
00:52:34,647 --> 00:52:40,227
I have no idea who it was, and he does
a really good job of explaining how.

955
00:52:41,322 --> 00:52:44,562
Your money gets devalued when
things get priced and just sort of,

956
00:52:44,567 --> 00:52:46,662
it, it was more of a small scale.

957
00:52:46,662 --> 00:52:49,812
You know, imagine that you are
in one country and it's like a

958
00:52:49,812 --> 00:52:51,492
hundred pounds circulating around.

959
00:52:51,792 --> 00:52:56,682
If it goes up to 200 pounds, then if you
only had 10 pounds, you've just got like

960
00:52:56,772 --> 00:53:00,462
half the purchasing power of what's,
you know, and just simplified like that.

961
00:53:00,462 --> 00:53:01,692
And it was actually a really good one.

962
00:53:01,692 --> 00:53:04,182
I thought that would've
been a good one for newbies.

963
00:53:04,422 --> 00:53:08,502
Um, but yeah, there's, it, it
is all the gen general stuff,

964
00:53:08,502 --> 00:53:13,692
Quantum's come up, you know, a a
lot of those kind of things come up.

965
00:53:13,692 --> 00:53:14,232
What if the sun

966
00:53:14,232 --> 00:53:15,012
Anja: explodes?

967
00:53:15,762 --> 00:53:16,752
Mike: Oh yeah, internet.

968
00:53:16,782 --> 00:53:22,482
What, what if the internet goes down or
whatever it is, you know, the, all of

969
00:53:22,482 --> 00:53:27,012
that sort of stuff comes up, but there's
not, there's not one common thing.

970
00:53:27,192 --> 00:53:31,572
I wouldn't say it's very, very
diverse, which, like I said, I, I

971
00:53:31,572 --> 00:53:32,712
feel like it's quite a good thing.

972
00:53:32,712 --> 00:53:34,752
'cause yeah, it shows that people
are actually thinking about it.

973
00:53:35,382 --> 00:53:39,822
Anja: Diverse, but I would probably also
assume that nothing new under the sun.

974
00:53:39,852 --> 00:53:43,152
Like are you getting any, any comments
that you're like, oh, I've never

975
00:53:43,152 --> 00:53:44,982
heard or thought of this before?

976
00:53:45,162 --> 00:53:46,812
It's mostly just on, yeah.

977
00:53:46,872 --> 00:53:47,052
Yeah.

978
00:53:47,052 --> 00:53:50,952
Mike: Again, and that's why my
conviction's just gone so high,

979
00:53:50,952 --> 00:53:55,962
particularly these last few years because
I think it was like 2020 where I really

980
00:53:55,962 --> 00:53:57,882
started understanding Bitcoin properly.

981
00:53:58,542 --> 00:54:04,452
Um, but probably 2022 is when
I was totally orange peeled.

982
00:54:04,602 --> 00:54:10,932
It was like, and just, it was just like
fully, like there is no second best.

983
00:54:11,337 --> 00:54:14,292
And what, once you see it,
you just can't go back.

984
00:54:14,382 --> 00:54:17,592
Then, you know, like there's no, and
this is the other thing that I was

985
00:54:17,682 --> 00:54:18,792
saying to a friend the other day.

986
00:54:18,792 --> 00:54:23,022
I was like, I've never met someone
who has gone down the Bitcoin rabbit

987
00:54:23,022 --> 00:54:27,042
hole and then has just had nothing,
wanted, nothing to do with it.

988
00:54:27,492 --> 00:54:31,722
Like once, once I've met someone
that really understands it.

989
00:54:32,982 --> 00:54:35,172
They just want more
and more to do with it.

990
00:54:35,622 --> 00:54:38,472
You know, like I've, I'm still
yet to meet someone that's

991
00:54:38,472 --> 00:54:40,152
like, oh, I really get this now.

992
00:54:40,152 --> 00:54:42,627
And like, Bitcoin's going to it.

993
00:54:42,632 --> 00:54:44,352
It has the potential to do so much.

994
00:54:44,352 --> 00:54:47,862
And then a year later be like,
actually no, it's broken.

995
00:54:47,922 --> 00:54:52,392
I'm not, I'm not, I I'm still yet to
even hear of anyone that's done that.

996
00:54:52,632 --> 00:54:56,442
I know there was people in like the
fork wars, you know, like Craig Wright

997
00:54:56,442 --> 00:55:00,282
era and stuff, who believed that
Bitcoin cash was the real Bitcoin.

998
00:55:00,282 --> 00:55:04,782
So there's obviously people that
have been sort of misled like that.

999
00:55:04,932 --> 00:55:08,082
And actually, that's what I
really think is happening with

1000
00:55:08,082 --> 00:55:09,432
this whole core knots thing.

1001
00:55:10,122 --> 00:55:14,262
I do think there's gonna be people
that are misled and then maybe give

1002
00:55:14,262 --> 00:55:19,122
up on Bitcoin because whatever their
perception of Bitcoin is hasn't been met.

1003
00:55:19,302 --> 00:55:21,072
And so then they might remove themselves.

1004
00:55:21,072 --> 00:55:25,122
So that, that's, that's really the
threat that I see from this is,

1005
00:55:25,122 --> 00:55:28,302
is people getting so fixated on
this and so worked up about it.

1006
00:55:28,992 --> 00:55:29,952
Um, but.

1007
00:55:31,062 --> 00:55:35,922
Other than those kind of instances,
there's, there's no one that's really

1008
00:55:35,922 --> 00:55:41,172
like, fully understood Bitcoin that
has just stopped caring about it.

1009
00:55:41,172 --> 00:55:43,332
You know, people only care
more and more about it.

1010
00:55:43,332 --> 00:55:48,042
So yeah, I think that's, that's
the thing for me where it's just

1011
00:55:48,042 --> 00:55:52,002
like, well, surely this is worth
looking into when you see that.

1012
00:55:52,002 --> 00:55:56,142
Or if you can find someone that
doesn't believe in it or, you know,

1013
00:55:56,322 --> 00:55:59,532
shares content about this that doesn't
believe in it, please send it to me.

1014
00:55:59,532 --> 00:56:00,312
'cause I'd love to see it.

1015
00:56:00,312 --> 00:56:04,392
And, um, I have had a couple of people
that send me something, but then

1016
00:56:04,392 --> 00:56:08,802
one, one of them was like a BSB guy,
you know, Bitcoin, Satoshi vision.

1017
00:56:08,952 --> 00:56:11,382
So again, like just another fork.

1018
00:56:11,382 --> 00:56:15,852
And I was like, yeah, he, uh,
he's trying to sell you something.

1019
00:56:16,272 --> 00:56:19,872
He's not, it's not that he doesn't
believe in Bitcoin, it is that he

1020
00:56:19,902 --> 00:56:22,692
has his own agenda and he is trying
to, trying to sell you something.

1021
00:56:22,692 --> 00:56:27,282
But yeah, that's, that's kind
of what I've seen anyway.

1022
00:56:27,342 --> 00:56:28,062
It is, um.

1023
00:56:28,602 --> 00:56:29,502
It's very diverse.

1024
00:56:30,192 --> 00:56:30,582
Anja: Yeah.

1025
00:56:30,672 --> 00:56:36,732
I can't think of anyone, but yeah, if I do
come across someone, I will let you know.

1026
00:56:37,242 --> 00:56:41,562
Um, but before we wrap up, I'm also very
curious to know who were some of the

1027
00:56:41,562 --> 00:56:46,602
biggest, like most influential bitcoiners
or books or podcasts that you've listened

1028
00:56:46,602 --> 00:56:48,252
to in your journey that you'd recommend?

1029
00:56:49,452 --> 00:56:50,382
Mike: That's a good question.

1030
00:56:50,382 --> 00:56:56,502
There's so many, um, obviously like
Andreas Antonopoulos, if you have

1031
00:56:56,862 --> 00:57:01,692
the time or desire to go and listen
to Three Hour Joe Rogan podcast, I

1032
00:57:01,692 --> 00:57:03,162
would say there, they're so worth.

1033
00:57:03,162 --> 00:57:09,132
He didn't it like 20 14, 20 16, you know,
so I didn't listen to them then, but

1034
00:57:09,312 --> 00:57:13,272
I've listened to them recently or in more
recent times, and it's just like, oh my

1035
00:57:13,272 --> 00:57:15,702
God, this guy, like, he just, he knew it.

1036
00:57:15,702 --> 00:57:16,842
He just, he just knew.

1037
00:57:16,842 --> 00:57:20,622
He, he just saw it way
before other people really.

1038
00:57:20,622 --> 00:57:23,262
And he's, he's, he's pretty
good at explaining it.

1039
00:57:23,262 --> 00:57:27,642
I, I find, anyway, it took
me a while to sort of.

1040
00:57:28,767 --> 00:57:31,137
Get into his brain if
you, you know what I mean?

1041
00:57:31,137 --> 00:57:33,897
So like, I remember hearing
some of his stuff before.

1042
00:57:33,897 --> 00:57:36,897
I was just like, oh my God, this guy's
too technical and I can't listen to him.

1043
00:57:36,897 --> 00:57:40,197
So I think it helps if you've
already got a bit of an understanding

1044
00:57:40,197 --> 00:57:41,247
of Bitcoin to listen to him.

1045
00:57:41,727 --> 00:57:47,127
Jeff Booth is probably who I would point
any newbie to, just because I think he's

1046
00:57:47,127 --> 00:57:53,817
got such a good way of, that he, he does
focus on the global free market aspect.

1047
00:57:53,847 --> 00:57:59,307
And I think that is for, for me
anyway, like I think that's far more

1048
00:57:59,307 --> 00:58:03,447
important that people understand
what Bitcoin could be for humanity.

1049
00:58:04,017 --> 00:58:09,597
And I think that's what will do a lot of
the orange peel in, um, because I think

1050
00:58:09,597 --> 00:58:14,517
it's far bigger than just getting rich
and number go up or anything like that.

1051
00:58:14,847 --> 00:58:15,567
Jack Muller's?

1052
00:58:16,257 --> 00:58:16,647
Yeah,

1053
00:58:16,947 --> 00:58:17,487
Anja: Jack Muller's.

1054
00:58:17,877 --> 00:58:21,057
He's so young, but he's so convincing
and I love watching his keynote.

1055
00:58:21,057 --> 00:58:21,087
I,

1056
00:58:22,557 --> 00:58:27,417
Mike: I've sort of, I dunno, recently
with all his 21 stuff, I've, I'm a bit.

1057
00:58:27,942 --> 00:58:30,342
I'm a bit disappointed with what
he is, what he's doing there.

1058
00:58:30,342 --> 00:58:33,762
To be honest, I can't, can't blame it.

1059
00:58:33,767 --> 00:58:35,592
It is still massive like Bitcoin adoption.

1060
00:58:35,592 --> 00:58:39,642
But um, I saw him in Prague and
his speech in Prague was amazing.

1061
00:58:39,647 --> 00:58:43,422
He, he sort of talked about how
money has broken so much from

1062
00:58:43,422 --> 00:58:47,472
like 1971 and that was, yeah, his,
his talk was really, really good.

1063
00:58:47,472 --> 00:58:47,892
Actually.

1064
00:58:48,042 --> 00:58:52,362
I really like the Bitcoin way, so like
their whole philosophy and concept.

1065
00:58:52,362 --> 00:58:55,902
I saw Michael Jordan, the other, Michael
Jordan saw him in Prague as well.

1066
00:58:56,592 --> 00:59:00,612
His talk with there was really good
talking about spending Bitcoin rather

1067
00:59:00,612 --> 00:59:02,622
than just only saving and hodd in.

1068
00:59:03,252 --> 00:59:07,542
Um, 'cause I think there are the kind
of, are these two separate camps really?

1069
00:59:07,542 --> 00:59:11,712
There's the, the Michael sailors, the
institutions about making money number

1070
00:59:11,712 --> 00:59:18,102
go up, holding onto it and then there's
the sort of more cipher punk like spend

1071
00:59:18,102 --> 00:59:21,522
Bitcoin, make it circular economy, turn
it into this global free market, you

1072
00:59:21,522 --> 00:59:26,832
know, so there are kind of two and I don't
see any issue with that at the moment.

1073
00:59:27,777 --> 00:59:29,487
All good for Bitcoin
adoption sort of thing.

1074
00:59:29,487 --> 00:59:35,277
But yeah, I definitely sway more to
the, uh, global green market side.

1075
00:59:35,277 --> 00:59:35,367
Same.

1076
00:59:35,517 --> 00:59:39,837
Anja: I will not be satisfied if
Bitcoin is just a store of value.

1077
00:59:39,837 --> 00:59:42,747
I would like to see it as a
medium of exchange and I hope

1078
00:59:42,747 --> 00:59:44,577
to be around to see that happen.

1079
00:59:44,742 --> 00:59:45,627
Mike: Exactly, exactly.

1080
00:59:46,977 --> 00:59:50,307
Well, the best book I would
recommend for beginners is, um, the

1081
00:59:50,307 --> 00:59:54,447
British case for bi, uh, British
Case for Bitcoin, VJ Boyer, Patti.

1082
00:59:55,737 --> 00:59:59,127
That one was probably the book
for me that really clicked.

1083
00:59:59,607 --> 01:00:05,577
Um, but yeah, I mean I could literally
list like loads of other books, but those,

1084
01:00:06,327 --> 01:00:10,017
that's probably like the main place I
would start for, for beginners anyway.

1085
01:00:11,547 --> 01:00:11,847
Anja: Yep.

1086
01:00:11,907 --> 01:00:12,687
Sounds great.

1087
01:00:12,777 --> 01:00:13,347
I love it.

1088
01:00:13,677 --> 01:00:16,107
Um, any final thoughts before we wrap up?

1089
01:00:17,427 --> 01:00:18,387
Mike: No, not really.

1090
01:00:18,507 --> 01:00:22,827
Other than spend Bitcoin, that that
is literally, that's probably like

1091
01:00:22,857 --> 01:00:25,437
the main thing that I would love to.

1092
01:00:26,082 --> 01:00:30,042
See more of, and people, and it's
not even just spending it, just ask,

1093
01:00:30,102 --> 01:00:31,272
ask people if they accept Bitcoin.

1094
01:00:31,662 --> 01:00:37,932
Like I've just, so before our meetup last
month, we were, we, uh, me and a friend

1095
01:00:37,932 --> 01:00:39,912
were in a kebab shop, like just near it.

1096
01:00:40,182 --> 01:00:41,772
And I just ask, ask everywhere.

1097
01:00:41,772 --> 01:00:42,742
I'm like, do you accept Bitcoin?

1098
01:00:43,032 --> 01:00:44,262
And it's always a bit like tongue cheek.

1099
01:00:44,292 --> 01:00:46,332
I always know what
answer's gonna come back.

1100
01:00:46,632 --> 01:00:49,122
But this guy was actually the
owner and he was like, no, why?

1101
01:00:49,122 --> 01:00:50,292
Well, I, why should I accept?

1102
01:00:50,292 --> 01:00:53,727
And I was like, well you, it was
basically like free fees, like you, you

1103
01:00:54,132 --> 01:00:57,792
how I asked him like, how many, what
percent do you pay on your card reader?

1104
01:00:57,792 --> 01:00:59,982
And he was like, it's about 1.5%.

1105
01:01:00,312 --> 01:01:03,912
I was like, well if you accept
Bitcoin from me now there is no fees.

1106
01:01:04,242 --> 01:01:07,842
Just literally download the app,
download wallet of Satoshi on your phone

1107
01:01:08,232 --> 01:01:09,942
and I can send you Bitcoin right now.

1108
01:01:10,002 --> 01:01:11,652
And it was like, no way.

1109
01:01:11,652 --> 01:01:12,252
And he actually did it.

1110
01:01:12,252 --> 01:01:13,662
I was like, that, you
know, that's just so cool.

1111
01:01:13,842 --> 01:01:18,762
There's also an ice cream truck that
comes near us who has like start,

1112
01:01:19,032 --> 01:01:20,412
started taking Bitcoin from me.

1113
01:01:20,412 --> 01:01:22,842
And so it is just little
things like that where.

1114
01:01:24,267 --> 01:01:26,277
More so than that one person.

1115
01:01:26,277 --> 01:01:28,047
It's like the network effect.

1116
01:01:28,047 --> 01:01:31,137
And they might go and tell someone
else or be like, there's some guy who's

1117
01:01:31,137 --> 01:01:35,307
like paying me in Bitcoin, and you
know, and so it, it's like you just,

1118
01:01:35,307 --> 01:01:36,747
you just never know what it will do.

1119
01:01:36,897 --> 01:01:44,067
Um, but I, I see that as how it's gonna
reach, like mass adoption really is, is

1120
01:01:44,067 --> 01:01:48,147
that, um, spend Bitcoin ask people if
they accept Bitcoin, even if they say

1121
01:01:48,147 --> 01:01:50,127
no, it's just getting it in their head.

1122
01:01:50,397 --> 01:01:51,642
I think that's, that's a massive thing.

1123
01:01:52,392 --> 01:01:54,762
Anja: Yeah, that's one part that I like.

1124
01:01:54,762 --> 01:01:59,082
I like spending my Bitcoin, but I'm
so embarrassed to go up to businesses

1125
01:01:59,412 --> 01:02:02,712
that I know won't accept it to be
like, Hey, do you accept Bitcoin?

1126
01:02:03,072 --> 01:02:05,382
Just like, yeah, I need
to get over that fear.

1127
01:02:05,862 --> 01:02:08,142
Um, because I know people who do it.

1128
01:02:09,102 --> 01:02:13,512
Mike: I, yeah, I, I've started doing it
in like, Tescos is like a big supermarket

1129
01:02:13,512 --> 01:02:17,142
here where I know they're never gonna
say it, but it's not for Tesco's, it's

1130
01:02:17,142 --> 01:02:19,062
for that one person I'm interacting with.

1131
01:02:19,062 --> 01:02:20,667
It's like, do, do you
accept Bitcoin by a chance?

1132
01:02:20,667 --> 01:02:22,187
They're like, no, what's, what's Bitcoin?

1133
01:02:22,287 --> 01:02:25,272
I'm like, it opens up a
conversation if nothing else.

1134
01:02:25,272 --> 01:02:31,752
And so, um, yeah, but I, my wife is always
like, ah, can you please stop doing that?

1135
01:02:31,752 --> 01:02:31,992
Like,

1136
01:02:34,542 --> 01:02:34,782
Anja: yep.

1137
01:02:35,382 --> 01:02:40,752
I, um, one thing I do do that I like
doing is just wearing like t-shirts.

1138
01:02:40,752 --> 01:02:43,872
I was wearing a t-shirt called
Fix the Money, fix the World.

1139
01:02:43,992 --> 01:02:44,442
Um, ah, nice.

1140
01:02:44,442 --> 01:02:48,102
And I just go get my morning
coffee and every now and again I

1141
01:02:48,102 --> 01:02:50,502
will get a person who's like, can
I take a photo of your t-shirt?

1142
01:02:50,502 --> 01:02:51,522
Where did you get it from?

1143
01:02:51,762 --> 01:02:54,042
Or just a random dude coming up to me.

1144
01:02:54,042 --> 01:02:56,922
He's like, that's it,
you're right about that.

1145
01:02:57,117 --> 01:02:58,242
And then just walk away.

1146
01:02:58,242 --> 01:03:01,237
And I'm like, okay, is he a Bitcoin
or I don't know, but I'm like,

1147
01:03:02,772 --> 01:03:03,792
Speaker 3: yeah, that's so good.

1148
01:03:04,332 --> 01:03:04,902
Anja: Love it.

1149
01:03:05,202 --> 01:03:07,752
Well, thanks so much for your time
and thanks for coming on the show.

1150
01:03:08,862 --> 01:03:09,312
Speaker 3: Thanks, Annie.

1151
01:03:09,312 --> 01:03:09,912
It's been great.

1152
01:03:10,295 --> 01:03:13,925
Anja: That's it for this week on
The Honest Money Show, a big shout

1153
01:03:13,925 --> 01:03:18,395
out again to shop bitcoin.com au
for making this episode possible.

1154
01:03:18,845 --> 01:03:23,015
Until next week, stay smart with
your money and stay decentralized.