Welcome to the Love, Sex, and Leadership podcast where you can discover simple tantric teachings to embody your true power, awaken your soul's wisdom, and live an inspired life as a natural, intuitive, and heart-centered leader. Welcome everyone to Love, Sex and Leadership. I am very excited for today's guest, who's a um a partner from many years ago. We still teach together with the Embodied Awakening Academy. She's the creator of the Embodied Awakening Academy, an amazing mother, uh, incredible facilitator, a good friend in my life. Uh, we just spent some time together here in Bali just a few days ago. She's back in Australia, but very excited to bring. Chantelle Raven to love sex and leadership. Welcome, love. Hi. Mhm So we were just having a catch up a week or two ago and we were talking about this, this place around, you know, what it means to be a masculine provider and seeing different friends and colleagues and individuals having conversations of this in, in our field, and we thought, let's let's get on a a live, let's get on a podcast and have a conversation because I feel like it's an area in relationship where a lot of people kind of uh suffer. They want this level of freedom and independence, but then also wanna, you know, a partner that can love love and you can cherish and can be supportive and providing for you. So I'd love to just start from your side, like, what what's most alive for you in this topic? Like what is that that that's bringing you juices and flow inside around this kind of what does it means to be a masculine provider? Yeah, there's, there's a lot of different pieces, actually. And I feel like there's a lot of pressure on men to be the financial provider, to be the provider of a woman's arousal, and there's this idea. Of, OK, because a man has a cock, he needs to be the one paying for more, or because a man has a has a cock and he turned on his more immediate, it's his responsibility to warm a woman up. And I kind of feel like both of these themes are the themes that keep coming alive in my field that cause me a little frustration just because I have my own masculine who is very good at providing for my own feminine financially and providing a nice vast space of meditational presence that her arousal can come online. And my greatest passion in the field of transformation is supporting people into understanding true in a union and how that overflows into sacred union. And whilst I think that there's definitely a time where men are providing more financially and maybe providing more in the bedroom in terms of supporting a woman's arousal. I don't think that that's to be expected. And what I see a lot of is women feeling entitled of like, OK, you need to warm my body up or you need to provide for me financially. And that's, that's where I think my biggest Yeah, desire to undo some of that conditioning, and one of the things that I often say to women in terms of financial provision, I, you know, if you're going to abide by this archaic principle, if you're going to Really allow these traditional roles to be a strong trajectory in your life, then are you willing to also take the role of traditional feminine, where you're just at home looking after him, opening your legs whenever he's ready for sex, cooking, cleaning, and being the primary carer of children. So this is another thing, you know, I've, I've been a mother and my beautiful first husband provided for me fully in the 1st 5 years with my daughter and it was such a beautiful exhale and time for me to just really enjoy mothering. But also in that time, I really looked after him fully. And completely devoted myself to him and I feel like there needs to be an equal exchange. There need not from a transactional point of view, but from the point of view is who is the most resourced at the moment to provide whatever energy is most relevant to the sacred union that is alive. So like, you know, when you and I were together and there was a time I was separated from the children, I was having to provide a lot financially for them insofar as rent and looking after them. And then, you know, in Bali, having to also pay rent would have been a real strain on me, so then you said, look, I'll cover the rent because you're having to cover the rent back home. So that was like a natural resource that you had, you would be looking after, you know, you'd be living somewhere anyway, you loved me, so you're like, OK, I've got us babe for that area. So that's beautiful. Now, would I have expected that? Would I have been entitled to that? No. That it was part of the natural connecting in our relationship. And I just, I find it difficult to understand other than in the period of motherhood when literally a woman can't provide if she's really surrendering into, it's like it's a full-time job, breastfeeding. The sleepless nights, looking after our children, our children are in the same etheric sheath as us, especially for the 1st 3 years. So of course in those tender times, in the times when it's natural for a man to provide, I 100% agree with a man being the provider. And I also 100% feel that in that time the woman needs to then go, OK, he's fully providing for me. What's the energy coming back in, in, in that scenario. So what I feel is that there's a naturalness in sacred union where it's this mutual dance of who's most resourced to give what? and the macrocosmic orbit that I teach in sexuality and that we teach together. where, you know, the woman's pouring energy from her heart, receiving the man's penetrative energy, and there's this loop going on. I feel like that loop is going on with everything, with finances, with life, and it's not limited to the bedroom. And, you know, I, even though I don't have a cock, I have a very strong masculine and feminine, even though Matisse doesn't, my partner doesn't have a pussy. He As a beautiful feminine, and, you know, same with when I was with you. So are we really gonna limit ourselves by our genitals and by the body we came into? Or are we going to expand that and say, I've got my union, you've got yours, who's most resourced at the moment? What's the natural flow of energy? And I do believe that polarity is important, and I'm not like, oh, we need to be androgynous, and I feel like Polarity is, is very much based on, you know, that the man is holding more masculine qualities and the woman is holding more feminine qualities in terms of their relating to each other. Do I feel like that needs to be financial? Absolutely not. Have I been with men who pour money into me and there's no fucking polarity because he's always off working and distracted? Absolutely. Do I feel polarity with Matisse, who doesn't provide financially anywhere near as much. as I do 100%. Does the lack of financial provision affect our polarity? No. And if anything, he's had the least amount of money of every man I've been with and I feel stronger polarity with him than anyone. So that's a lot, Aaron. That's my first. passionate kind of brand. I love it. You know what, what I'm hearing in this is, is it's less to do with the ergonomics of the body in which we're in and more about actually recognising and honouring the, the dance of polarity that happens inside of every one of us. And you know, I, I, I can hear and I see this sort of entitlement that female bodies come into almost the expectation of certain things being cared for. But you know, and if I can reflect my own relationship like with with Natasha witnessing, you know, when we first got together, she was providing for her family and providing for, you know, like supporting her grandmother who was in transition, all these different things that she was very much being the provider a lot more than just her, and that was the role that she was in. And then with us coming together, you know, she's left her job and now like I'm in full providing for her, but it feels so good, it feels so like aligned and and warm in my body and you know, that space. I feel like it exists in relationships when people let in the naturalness of what wants to happen, and I get frustrated when I see the certain like stereotypical entitled places of being, that's actually in many ways, I think the result that happens on men is feeling like their balls get cut off or it's like, OK, you know, you need to provide for me and take care of me, but then You know, the, the entitlement of sometimes female bodies is like, oh well, I'm gonna take away sex when I want, or, you know, I'm gonna, you know, have your balls around a noose and I'm basically, you're gonna become my little puppet. And then the women get upset when the men don't feel freedom and sovereignty and not like a level of independence. Well, it's like you cut his balls off from day one. So what do you want this man to do? You know, and that this is where it gets frustrating. It's like, yes, being for a female body in her her radiance, but also allow that radiance to be poured back. I love this example you're sharing with the pouring back from the heart, and I can feel that from from Natasha in this space like she. Without even question sometimes just comes and like holds me and like supports me or puts her arms around me and just allows her love to flow through me, and that is so nourishing and it's like that level of providing isn't financially, but that's emotionally and physically, and so there's just this really easy flow of energy that's happening in that way and it it's always like you're returning to the the the naturalness. You know, and, and I guess I'd love to hear a little bit deeper because obviously the dynamic that you and Matisse are in, it's, of course, it's natural and to sometimes people looking from the outside in, they might be like, well, she's providing everything for him financially, like what what kind of man is that? Like, you know, and I love Matisse, he's a fucking amazing man. And I have such respect for him, and I'm curious like how when if I'm I'm sure you've gotten some of that from people in the last couple of years, like, what is your response to that and how, how do you really like kind of diving into that stereotype even more and and and what comes alive for that for you. Yeah, so the funny thing is that people who know him and know how much he does for me, and especially in the fathering of Jaleb and the looking after me and how much I've come into relaxation, they don't even question it. It's more people don't know our relationship. And yeah, I mean, I don't, I don't think many people dared to question me, to be honest. I hope that that doesn't sound. You know, like, whatever. I, I, I haven't actually been questioned on it, but I know that people probably do. And you know, the, the funny thing is that since I've been with Matisse, my, my financial abundance levels have gone through the absolute roof. It's the first time in my life that I've had a man. By my side since I separated from my husband, which was a long time ago, um, it was 16 years ago. The first time since then that I've had someone walking through this journey of parenthood with me, working through this jour walking through this journey of holding a massive business while holding a home and having this consistent, peaceful, loving, steady energy by my side where I can just go and let go. Of so many of the stresses that used to be in my life has been so fucking incredible. So, you know, in conversations I do have with people when it comes up, I like, you know, do you ever feel like it affects polarity or do you ever feel like, cause I, you know, friends have asked that before. And, and, you know, how do you feel about taking care of him in that way. It's like I don't feel. Like I'm taking care of him. I feel like we have this mutual taking care of each other and supporting one another. And I don't see money as an energy that's separate to any other energy. So, you know, the, the overall energy of our relationship is just so fucking supportive that I, I, I feel like money is love, you know, and how is love flowing in that space and You know, obviously he's helping me, he comes and facilitates with me and offers his beautiful wisdom and presence and stillness and music, and, you know, does that equate financially in terms of what I provide financially if you're just looking at numbers? No, but if you look at the overall picture, it, it, it's really absolutely equal. And there are times when In relationship, I think one person is giving more in a particular area than another person. And if we're really trusting the union, if we're trusting ourselves, if we're trusting that naturalness, it all kind of works out in the wash. So, part of what I have found extremely difficult in my life, probably the most difficult thing in my life is balancing. Everything that I have to do with the kids and with life with running the business. And it's almost like all I have to focus on now is the business and then when I'm not working, just being so filled up with all of the beauty that his presence and his adventurous nature. Gives me, so it's been a really amazing process actually. I'm working maybe like 3 to 5 hours a week now earning more than I've ever earned and it's been this incredible process of wow, when I get really present, when I have this master teacher of presence who is my partner. And I'm putting joy first, and I'm putting happiness first, and I've let go at different points in our relationship of my attachment to money, that, oh, fuck, when you let go of that attachment, including the attachment to a man taking care of you and all of the different layers, oh my God. That's, that's when it really comes in because in prioritising my happiness, my joy, my pleasure, and the first step to that was spending all of my last money on a camper van and taking a lot of time off just doing nothing and trusting that and Matisse really encouraging that. Then, yeah, all of the joy that that fed me with and the transmission I was then offering just brought this next level of clients who are in big earnings and could and could afford to pay me a lot of money, who needed to actually learn what I was learning, which is that there's always fucking more money that you could be making. And if we're pushing and we're striving and we're constantly reaching the next goal. Are you, are you ever really happy in that? And what would it feel like to you're doing all of this for happiness, but it's so fucking elusive. And what if you just dropped into what I feel is most important to the feminine. In all of us, which is the receptivity of all of the beauty that the world has to offer, that love has to offer. I'm happiest when we're in the camper, waking up by a river and instead of having a shower in the morning, going for a swim. You know, and of course it's beautiful to have the freedom of choice that money gives and my ideal is to have both. But if I could have one or the other, like money and doing the striving and having this man who earns a lot take care of me, who's always at fucking work or distracted or like in the ambition. Or, you know, just be in the joy and the happiness and flow of what his complete presence and joy and peace gives me. I would choose that any day of the week, now that I've experienced that. So spirit rewarded me with both. Which, which I'm really grateful for. And, you know, what I would say to women is get in touch with the true longing of what you're wanting a man to provide you with. And I've had to traverse that, you know, and finally at, you know, 47. I am totally at peace with and can totally feel the true longing which is for a complete real sacred union, not as a concept, but as a cult sense in the body of actually everything that we're doing together is this meditative, lovemaking, receptive, well of course we're not perfect and we fall out of this, but the main energetic that Matisse and I have. Is this beautiful lovemaking that's happening all the time. And yeah, I felt similar with you, you know, I, I was saying the other day how lucky I was to get you at a time when you weren't travelling a lot over COVID and, you know, really relishing in the, the joy and the play and the stillness of living in Bali together and, you know, having so many sacred moments and yeah, just, just really. Being in stability and consistency is what my feminine needs the most and. What, what is, what does that provision mean and what does that provision look like? And we can say that we're spiritual teachers and spiritual leaders and living a spiritual life, but if there's not, if stillness isn't at the core of life's pulse, where there is a genuine. Macrocosmic orbit happening with love, with spirit, with play with fucking being in love with this existence, and then money is just like what what is it what's the fucking obsession. With a man giving, of course, like if you're not earning and you're in a time in your life where you're studying or where, you know, you're preparing for motherhood or whatever it is, and the man is resourced, great. But what if he wants to do that? What if he's in a time of like studying or needing a break? Can, can we be the more resourced ones? And is it, is it all just a dance? Why the separation between finance and any other energy? It doesn't make sense to me. And it definitely doesn't make sense to me when women are loaded and have a lot of money and they're like, but I need you to pay for everything for me because you're a man. I'm like, are you fucking serious? Yeah, no, I, I, I couldn't agree more, you know, I've, uh, in, in so much of this is what I've been experiencing the last, last few months, and, you know, and I'm, I'm about to share it more publicly with those that are listening, you know, Natasha and I have a, a beautiful baby coming in September in my reality. So beautiful. Yeah, and you know, the reality I've experienced, you know, we found out in the beginning of January. Um, conceived right around Christmas, and in January I was here in our new home in Bali, like I was doing some work, but I was generally just in a very relaxed state, and I had a more, you know, lucrative month financially than I've almost ever had, and I wasn't travelling or moving or going anywhere, and I just felt this deeper sense of like an embodied providing place come inside of me. That just felt natural. It was like, of course, like I want to take care of you and provide for you and, and, you know, create family and and life and wealth. And what I've witnessed in her coming from her journey of like being the financial provider and avoiding so much for her family and, and helping things along the way is actually like the muscles of her own receptivity expanding to kind of be able to take in more and you know we were I was having a chat with her the other day. Um, you know, and she was kind of referencing her masculine, and he's like, she's like, yeah, he's kind of sitting on a, on a rock on the porch. She's, he's, he's done a lot of things and he's, he's just taking it all in, he's, you know, he'll be called back in at some point, but he's taking a break. He's been busy for, you know, 1520 years of working hard and, you know, and, and being very much of that energy. So I'm just witnessing the This like gregarious alive little girl in her that's just coming alive more and more, you know, stepping into motherhood and just feeling like so nourished and held in this way, and, you know, that just brings me so much joy and and it's not like a joy of like stress, it's like actually the more I lean into that joy, the more that there's just this deep, you know, trust of of finances of projects, of all these things that are coming in that are just expanding more and more of, of, you know, both the finances and the wealth and the energetics that we can hold together and that just feels so. Absolutely aligned to everything I've understood in my mind. I'm like, oh, OK, here's an embodied reality coming into me, you know, being in more of that providing role and it's just being in its naturalness, and I think that's out of all this conversation really the the place I'm returning to is like, what's the naturalness that happens between two people. Yeah, and I loved, you know, I, I know you so well and it's like you don't do things out of obligation. You're a very sovereign man and I loved when You know, at Li Tantra, I was, I brought up the finances like if you have a baby together and I could feel what I feel in all women, which is, you know, oh but. What about finances and how's that gonna, what's that gonna look like and when I brought that up, she wasn't, Natasha wasn't in the entitlement actually, she was just like, She wasn't saying, oh well, Aaron will have to provide for me, she was just like, curious about what that would look like, wasn't even expecting you to say that. And then when you said, of course, you know, I'll, I'll provide for you, and I think she started crying and it was a beautiful moment, but I feel like you would have responded very differently if you were met with an entitled self-righteous energy of like, well, if we're trying for a baby, you have to start paying for me and if I'm pregnant, it's like the, there's a difference between what we do out of obligation and what we do out of naturalness. And what I see in feeling in my conversations with men and men that I support is that when they're feeling an obligation to pay, Yeah, they're coco soft. It's like, you know, they're losing their masculinity. And the irony is she's wanting more of his masculine, so she's demanding provision. Actually that just fucking kills his masculine energy. And, you know, puts him, puts him in this state of losing his power to choose. So. I feel like this power to choose is really important. And, you know, what you said with seasons and reasons, it's like there was a time when I didn't want to work anymore and I needed to step back, to come back to where I am now, where it's an absolute joy and there's nothing I'm doing right now that I wouldn't want to be doing. And I say no to anything I don't want to do. So I think an important piece for anyone individually and as a couple is, are we building resentment in our choices? Or is, is this true? So whether you're a man or a woman, if I'm providing for Matisse and I'm resentful. And I'm working and I'm not actually wanting to work. Of course that's going to affect polarity. Of course that's not going to be the best thing for our sacred union. And then same for him, if he's resentful about looking after Jaleb. I mean, I'm going to Portugal to teach with you for 5 weeks and have a good time, and Matisse was going to be coming, and we thought it was OK because Jaleb will have a car and he's older, but you could really feel from his response that he was not OK with both of us being away. And I didn't say anything to Tess, and then he just said, you know what, I feel like it's an important time. Jayla would have just started driving. I'm gonna stay back with him. Now, I didn't say to him, Hey, I'm earning the money, so you have to stay at home with my child, because it goes both ways, this obligation thing. And I just You know, I always just get so emotional when he genuinely puts Jaleb first and wants to be there for him. And same thing after the body transformation retreat, he's coming home to be Jaleb while with Jaleb while I'm having a good time. So it's like, is, is he taking care of Me in the way that he's taking care of me from a place of genuine joyful sacrifice and love, or is it out of obligation? If it's out of obligation, he's also gonna feel like his balls are chopped off and he's gonna, he's gonna get resentful. Am I providing for him? Because I genuinely just fucking appreciate him so much and love him and want him to have a beautiful life with what money provides. Absolutely. If I wasn't, would it affect our sacred union? Absolutely. And there have been times that we've traversed, where he's got a bit resentful of how much he's holding the family and where I've got a bit resentful at How much I'm supporting finances and then we have a talk about money. We have a talk about family, and we work it out, and he shares what he's needing in order to feel more sovereign. And I share what I'm needing in order to feel more taken care of. So, you know, like anything in relationship, it requires communication, it requires authenticity, but can we be in a dance that doesn't define anything, you know, because of gender. Can we just be in the authentic dance and my authentic energy. That I've learned my feminine needs more than anything is undivided presence and attention. When I'm like that's the most important thing to me. And then he has what's most important to him, and then that translates in all areas of our life. Money, travel, home life, all of it. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, the, the, the communication at the heart, you know, um, and when you're sharing, and Natasha and I just had a conversation last night, and one of the things that's very high in her values is her own freedom and sovereignty and, you know, capacity, even though she's journeying to motherhood, this this place of like still like honouring and appreciating that and what I'm, you know, tuning into is in the very, you know, extensive travel schedule that I've had for so many years, a very strong awareness that I I do want to slow down, and I know there's gonna be times when, you know, I need to go and teach and do different things like that, and I approached her or something last night, and she just like, I expected actually more, you know, almost resistance, but she just beautifully was like, of course, babe, like you're, I know you need to take care of these things, and, you know, because I I felt like I was coming from a place of rather than like. You need to take, you know, be home and take care of the kids. I need to go to work. It was like, oh, I'm feeling I can feel my own sensitivity in this, and she leaned into that. And I think for that's really where I think a lot of couples go wrong is like there there isn't a sensitivity and attunement to the other individual's reality and what it is that they're holding, and that's also what I'm really hearing and and with you and Matisse is the different places that you're holding and there's an awareness of That inside of both of you and because of that, the resentment doesn't build and the deeper layers of of appreciation and and and and honesty and integrity can be there rather than like an expectation of things to be. And that's, you know, as being a masculine provider in just about all most of my relationships I've ever been in. Like I really, I love that and I also love like the simple place of like after dinner, even if she knows I'm gonna get the bill, just a thank you babe, that was amazing, like that, the little things like that, cause I noticed that. Through time, if, if someone who is being the provider, the other person doesn't simply say thank you and like honour and appreciate that along the way, then eventually it's like, fuck, I'm not a not a money bank. I like I, I want a little bit of gratitude and that gratitude is like, oh, OK, you know, she, he sees me, whatever the the the case may be, and then there's a deepening of love, there's a deepening of connection because of being seen and recognised in that. Yeah, and that goes both ways, right? It's like I've, that that's actually something that has come up with Tess and I when we've had those, when they've gone more into the valley and into the challenge is if he's feeling unappreciated or I am. And I find that, you know, I have been the provider a lot and sometimes men aren't saying thank you and it's because they have shame around it. They actually have shame that I'm providing, so they're not saying thank you because then it highlights it. That's what ends up coming out. And it's like, well, hey, you know, you need to move through that and actually receive it and be grateful for it because I'm not this never ending fucking bank that's providing. I need to feel appreciated. And then also at times with him, if I'm taking for granted, you know, as you know, there are a few times where I assumed something with Jayle and he's like, I don't want to just be assumed. And then it's fair enough, and it takes it out of being a transaction. Like, you know, the, this transactional, well, your job is this, like you said, like I get to travel because I'm providing and you have to stay home with the kids. It's beautiful that you tuned into that. And it's like, but actually naturally because Natasha's such a beautiful woman. She wants, she's like, no, I want you to be able to go off and you know I can be with the baby same like Scott had to travel a lot. He went away for 8 weeks at one point and you know he's like, are you gonna be OK? I'm like, absolutely. And it comes from this. You know, overflowing appreciation that he's providing, it's like, yeah, you go and have your freedom and, and do what you need to do. So I feel like gratitude is really important going beyond transaction into the natural exchange of energy and so I'm actually someone who's very sensitive when something's not equal because I experience I've I've been. An overextender until you in a lot of my relationships. So it's always important for me to feel this equal exchange of energy. And yeah, I do always relate it to that circulation of the macrocosmic orbit it's like, if I'm just doing this and I'm not feeling safe, I'm not feeling penetrated at my base and like that consistent safety. There's no fucking way that I can give without resentment. So yeah, like an equal exchange is important, not something that we're thinking about. But actually, when there's two good people who both have, who both experience wholeness as the main flow of energy, and they're not, you know, entitled, they have like a natural integrity within them. I feel like that's, that's what will happen between. Between two people who I guess are wholesome for want of a better word, and we all have our shadows of manipulation and selfishness and taking advantage, of course, I'm not saying perfection, but you know, I, I would also and have said to couples before, if you're questioning their integrity, if you're not trusting. That kind of equal exchange, if you're feeling taken for granted. Or manipulated, there's probably a good reason for that. So maybe check that out, because it's important to be with someone who is kind, who does have integrity, who is whole and a good person, because if they're not, they're gonna take the fucking piss. If if Natasha wasn't, she would take the piss out of you providing. If you weren't, you would take the piss out of her gene, the freedom she gives you, which is so you would just be like off all the fucking time. Mhm, mhm. Right, and. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, and, you know, as you're you're sharing, I'm I'm just bringing to my my mind and awareness, like, especially I see it a lot in this field, a lot of these women that are kind of the, what I'd say like stereotypical boss babes, you know, they they run their own company, they do their own thing, and I know in some ways like you can have that hat in its own sense and one of the things that I, you know, and I've shared this with you before, the thing that was really So nurturing about our connection and just the way that you're being, even though you could be quite strong and clear and and run run your business, there was still this deep surrender of your own feminine that actually allowed and and an even deeper space for the masculine to in me to step forth in the bedroom, you know, financially, etc. So I guess like I'd love to hear your thoughts, especially. To that like very, very stereotypical boss babe, that is, is wanting partnership but is running their own company and so busy with life, but inside there's often a deep longing. For surrender, longing to be held, longing, but almost in many ways they get in in their own way, and they don't actually create a space for a strong man to to step up, even though that's what they're they're longing for. They're like in their brain, they know they wanna have that and create it, but there's some part, whether it's in their unconscious that isn't actually even able to attract that because they're in their own way of actually setting into that. So I know you've worked with a lot of women like that, and I'm, I'm curious. I feel like this conversation is especially alive in that feeling for, you know, female bodies that have learned to be the provider, to be the masculine supporter, to be the one that's, you know, making the money, and inside there's still often those that are still able to have babies and and have family are longing for that, but they don't necessarily know how to get there. What are what are some of the, what are some of Raven's tips for those women? Well, the first one is, of course, the father wound, and I feel like It's the core of it isn't really talked about very often, but because I experienced a father who gave me a lot of guidance, I've always trusted men's guidance. And they always appreciate that. It's like, I'm such, I'm so open to a man's consciousness, to a man's decision making, to him taking care of stuff, because my dad was so good at taking care of things and guiding my consciousness in good direction. But no one else that I know who I've worked with has had a father like mine, so I kind of bring my dad's energy in and just go and ask what would it have been like to have a father who was whose guidance you could trust, to have a father who could, you know, like whenever I had emotions, my dad was an EFT practitioner amongst other esoteric geniuses that he held. And so when I was feeling different emotions, I was literally taken through a process of, even though I'm feeling sad, I did lean completely, accept myself and love myself unconditionally. So you know, what that built into me was that no matter what I'm feeling, I'm loved, and he would hold me and he was a deep listener, so the quality of my sharing of my emotional body. Has depended upon a strong listener that then has allowed me to really feel free in that emotional expression. So I'd say the first thing is re-parenting yourself and having a father within your own being that can actually be the vastness of the sky for the seasons that are moving through you and also guide you in good directions and you know, one of my One of the, my biggest sadnesses or frustrations in what I see when women process is that they're not actually processing the alive emotion. They're processing the story, the dialogue, the thoughts, and their resistance to what they're feeling. Right? And there's a difference between feeling alive in it all and and feeling what's here now and the direct experience and spiralling into the story and beating into pillows and journaling and psychoanalysing everything till the fucking cows come home while you're crying, while you're feeling, and then at the end of it, you're not actually free. So unless at the end of an emotional process you're feeling free. You haven't actually processed with the depth of in a union. You process the story and then you maybe like afterwards going, I need you to financially provide so that I feel free. For instance, right, so I think a lot of women, they're equating taking care of with being able to relax the boss, babe, when actually what they're needing more than anything is first of all to bring their own masculine in so they learn to trust the masculine who can hold that vastness and not push, push, push, push and ignore her. Because then they're gonna attract that and ironically, boss babes who are attracting the reflection of their own masculine are attracting someone who's distracted and who's in the ambition and the status, who can provide for them financially, but then they're not actually getting what they need, which is to fully relax because they're not getting the transmission that they really need, which leads to my second point of What I, what I can speak of personally, and what I've seen in a few other women, is that when you finally attract a man who's joyful, who's present, who's adventurous, who's fully there, you get a big brother who can teach your own masculine to chill the fuck out. You know, and to just relax and like, you know, every day when I was with you, you would take me on different adventures and that you, you have this beautiful consistent joy and presence and gratitude to your being and then. You know, turn that up even more with tease because he, he's, he's not in the status and ambition at all or money driven. And like, wow, what your energy and his energy has done for me and my own masculine and actually embodying in my masculine what's important, which is freedom. If not, if you haven't learned. The freedom of consciousness within your own masculine who can hold the vastness for your for your seasons. If you haven't learned the freedom of consciousness that can guide you. Into neutrality, into discernment, into being objective, into realising that there's advantages and disadvantages to everything and being able to be guided into that, which my father always guided me into, and pretty much every partner I've had has had a very transcendent masculine that I love that can guide me into that. Find that in your own masculine. And until you have that, you're fucked. Because he's always gonna be, if he's in the unhealthy, he's gonna be driving your boss, babe, whether you're being financially provided for or not. And then yeah, the second thing is, who are you choosing as your partner? Because if you've got a boss as a man, you're always gonna be the boss, babe, because you're not actually That that's, that's the mirror, and not even go beyond the mirror to say, like, whoever you're with, you are one with that person. You are that person. So, you know, I met Matisse at a time in my life when I'd got back to Australia and I'd realised that the most important thing for me, which is why we separated, was to focus on my children. And to just stabilise, to let go of my, to not prioritise my longing for you and to be with you, to not prioritise my, to not fucking prioritise anything. Other than the silence and what the silence is and the presence and the neutrality, and it's like, of course I need to be here for my kids and take care of them. I'm going back to Bali. I've been away from them for a year and a half. They need the consistent presence of the masculine. And then once I got really present in the land at home with them, let go of my attachment to everything else, that's when I attracted a man who prioritises that presence and then. And, and some, and then could teach me that. So choose, choose the polarity wisely of actually. Who is going to relax your boss, babe? Is it a corporate guy or a really busy guy or an ambitious guy that can pay for everything? Or you know, maybe you're lucky and you've got both, and he's earned all the money and he's relaxed and living in that and can provide, who knows, I'm not, nothing's finite, but is it gonna be the man who's still in the ambition and earning a lot and then providing for you from that place? Or is it the man who's actually whose presence is calling you into deeper presence because Boss babes going into victim of like, oh, I'm holding everything and this and that, and I was definitely one of them. I've got so much to hold, and you're fucking choosing that. Because what would happen if it all stopped? What would happen if you slowed down? What would happen if you were in the stillness? You probably wouldn't know what the fuck to do with that. All we stillness. So call yourself to power, grow your own masculine, refather yourself and choose your partner wisely. You're not gonna be able to start having fun. You need the medicine of your own masculine and the medicine of a present man who can support you to unfold into the full potentiality of embodiment that's possible in this human life, and you never talk to someone on their deathbed. And they say, oh, I really regret going on that holiday to Patagonia or, or to Mexico with my family or my beloved or you know, that romantic affair I had in, not affair as in cheating, but just beautiful time in Jamaica. But they're gonna say, I regret not giving my children the time that they needed. I regret not really being there for life. It just kind of passed me by while I was so focused on the future and when I could be happy, which when I fucking got there, I couldn't even open to receiving because I was so used to going, going, going. So it's like, on, on our deathbed, what's the, what, what's the most important thing in that moment? And can you live that now? Mm. Yeah, I love it, you know, and, and one of the things I hear you sharing that I want to emphasise cause I feel like it's lost in this polarity conversation is, you know, when I see female bodies developing their masculine, their their association to that masculine is often from the place of, you know, productivity and getting shit done, which is definitely an aspect of the, of the masculine. But that place that has the the the joy, the aliveness, the connection to to earth, to the presence is is such a big part of that masculine providing nature. That I think in the developmental places of a woman's masculine gets a little bit lost because of the world in which she's relating to what masculine energy is. So, you know, really what I'm hearing there is having this imprint from both Matisse and I expanded your own masculines um frequency to move beyond just, let's write another manual into. Let's actually make love with the world around us and have a deeper, you know, joy of presence of stillness, of connection, connecting more of these kind of like divine masculine qualities into the embodiment of play and joy and almost bringing in some of that, that little boy energy that's so alive and, and that I, I feel it's such an important message for The developmental places of the masculine in female bodies to recognise that these qualities that you might be referring to masculinity, there there there's an upgrade to how you can show up in the world with healthy masculine energy beyond just this. Zeros in your bank account and the productivity of what you're creating. And in doing that, you're only gonna expand to then draw those beings into your life or you're gonna be a reflection of what you're naturally doing inside yourself. And that's to me such a big overarching premise of this because I also feel that. You know, in my, in my own feminine, it's like I wanna feel the, the, the creativity and the flow and the, the ease, and I really feel that, you know, when I, when I look into Natasha now, and I felt that in you as well. There was this, you know, let's make love to the day and see what's here and smell of it. You know, roses and play with the butterflies, and that brought even more joy that actually brought inside of me a deeper essence to to appreciate all of these different places rather than these often just strongly stereotypical characteristics of masculine feminine into. Day to day embodiment that brings more joy, brings more aliveness, brings more of like, ah, this is what we're here for, and we're not just here to put a bunch of zeros in our account and actually when we do that, we end up putting more zeros in our account because we're enjoying. Exactly, that that's, that's the irony of it all, and you know. A deeper question for people to ask themselves when they're wanting women, especially when they're wanting to be provided for. It's like, OK, I'm a boss, babe. I want to be provided for so that I can finally relax. It's like, can we, can we take it deeper? Like, OK, that relaxation is actually available to you now. And what is it that you want to feel if a man's providing? What would you feel if a man's providing? Because it's not actually the financial providing. That women are wanting, it's the feeling that they have when he does. What's that felt sense? And can that felt sense come online in other ways? And can you trust that if there's love there and resonance, and this is, this is your person, that wherever they're at financially is, is meant to be where they're at and actually what they have to provide you with. Can you trust the body and the wisdom of the body instead of like, oh, I don't know if he can meet me and You know, where's his consciousness, where's mine? Where's his bank balance, where's mine, all of this stuff. It's like, can you trust something bigger that you're coming together for a reason. And what is, what is the felt sense of what you're truly desiring and can that be met in other ways than what the conscious mind is conceiving on surface level conditioning, cultural conditioning, religious conditioning, personal conditioning, and at the end of the day, that's what all true transformation comes down to. That's what you and I are always so passionate about bringing through. And if people are You know, we can talk about all of this stuff on a podcast and actually, well this live, actually everything we're talking about has so many filigrees of energy to so many different things and if you don't actually have the capacity in your nervous system to regulate, to look at all this stuff, if you don't have the capacity to shadow hunt, if you don't have the capacity to fall. Or your joy to tune into yourself, to listen to your womb, to listen to your cock. All these so many things if you don't know how to be with someone in, in an erotic meditation framework. If you don't know how to ask for what you need, tune into your desires. It's all just words. So if anyone listening is wanting to actually embody what we're talking. About wanting to go deeper into it. Everyone's in different seasons of their life. It's about getting curious about yourself, getting curious about what is it that is bringing me true happiness, and can I risk everything for that? Can I put my happiness before anything else? If you're ready to do that, then come to Livington to retreat in Portugal in November. This is 7 days of deeply diving into The terrain of your soul into the terrain of your deep longings. It's a mining of the heart, it's a mining of the spirit, where actually you get to transcend your conditioning because at the end of the day, your ego is going to want to live in its comfort zone, it's conditioned state, and what we're talking about here is beyond that, beyond that condition. Mm. Yeah, thank you for bringing that in and, you know, as, as you're as you're sharing, you know, especially when it comes to the field of tantra and just so many, you know, and myself and and being inside of many hats in this field, you know, one of the things I, I, many things I love about Li Tantra retreat, but it's such a, um, a deep Embodied journey into actually rather than these just being concepts of what we're talking about, but actually giving people a chance to feel these energies inside of them and where these places have been so out of alignment, you know, and I also just want to say like with living Tantra, the thing that is so potent about that retreat is often people hear the word tantra and they think, oh well, you know, it's just gonna be a bunch of people playing with their genitals together, you know, and and there's such a vaster. Um, dance of what that training is with no genital touch and really a deep journey into what it means to be human and what it means to to master this human experience, to be with all of these parts of ourselves that we don't necessarily have a good education around, you know, we don't have a good framework of what it means to be human and to how to deal with all of these different aspects, especially in the realms of relating. You know, so many people are in relationships and they've never actually done any level of studying of relationships and how we work within ourselves, and then no, it's no, you know, no matter, it makes sense why so many, you know, divorces happen and and marriages fail and relationships fall apart because there isn't a A deep meeting of ourselves. There isn't a deep meeting of the parts inside of ourselves that haven't maybe been loved, recognised, looked at and seen and through living tantra, it's a place for all of that and in the group. Like the reflective nature, and I reflect on this on groups all the time. It's like, you know, both of you and I do 1 to 1 immersions, we work 1 to 1 with clients. I love that work. And the group reflected field that happens when a group of people, you know, 4050 people, whatever the numbers are, smaller groups, bigger groups, the things that you get to see in other people's questions, the things that you get to witness in how someone else is observing their own reality, that alone sometimes is greater. I mean, our teachings are are important, the discourse is important, but the reflective field that gets created through other people's reality. Expands the transformational nature of it, and this is one of the reasons I'm so dedicated to group work and group facilitation because I just see that over and over and over again that the permission field that gets formed, the willingness that's there, and the permission of totality really expands someone's capacity to know themselves deeper cause they get to see that in the eyes of another. Mhm. Yeah, absolutely, and it's, it's, I think we're moving into community, a more community era in, in this world that we're living in, it's important for people to come together, to be there for one another, to have shared experiences. So yeah, super excited to be in Portugal with you and whoever feels cold. Thanks for another great conversation. I always love talking to you, Aaron. Let's jump on more leading up to the retreat and give people more glimpses into our dynamic of teaching and supporting together. Absolutely, absolutely, much more to come. You're, uh, a joy to have in my life. Thank you for your, for your love, for your friendship. It's uh it always feels like it's growing and expanding and blossoming, and yeah, I just appreciate you so much. Yeah, you too. I love you so my love to Natasha and your baby. I will I will meet you. Very, very lucky to have you as parents. Oh thank you, thank you. And thank you all for tuning in, and if you want to find out more about that retreat, you can go to embodied awakening academy.com. All of the information is there. This has been the Love, sex and Leadership podcast and uh yeah, if either one of us can help or support you on your journey, lots of ways to reach out, find us here on uh Instagram, on YouTube, on Facebook, and send us a message, comment, share this video if it, if it. Um, really inspired you and it would help out other people in your world, especially around this topic. So, thank you so much, love. I always enjoy it and uh everyone have a beautiful day and see you next time.