WEBVTT NOTE This file was generated by Descript 00:00:01.170 --> 00:00:05.370 Welcome to The Chemical Show, the podcast where Chemical means business. 00:00:05.910 --> 00:00:09.720 I'm your host, Victoria Meyer, bringing you stories and insights 00:00:09.720 --> 00:00:13.590 from leaders driving innovation and growth across the chemical industry. 00:00:14.520 --> 00:00:18.840 Each week we explore key trends, real world challenges, and the 00:00:18.840 --> 00:00:20.700 strategies that make an impact. 00:00:20.910 --> 00:00:21.750 Let's get started. 00:00:24.269 --> 00:00:25.889 Victoria: Welcome back to the Chemical Show. 00:00:26.549 --> 00:00:30.509 As we enter the month of April, things are getting green and we 00:00:30.509 --> 00:00:34.229 are focusing on sustainability and innovation throughout the month. 00:00:34.229 --> 00:00:37.229 So you're gonna be hearing from a lot of great innovative 00:00:37.229 --> 00:00:39.629 guests, including today's guest. 00:00:39.959 --> 00:00:43.649 So before we get started, just a reminder, if you are new to the Chemical Show. 00:00:43.919 --> 00:00:47.549 Make sure you follow and subscribe on your favorite podcast player. 00:00:47.969 --> 00:00:50.159 Also, visit the chemical show.com 00:00:50.159 --> 00:00:51.899 to get onto our email list. 00:00:52.049 --> 00:00:55.979 You can search for past episodes, read our interviews as a blog 00:00:55.979 --> 00:00:57.599 post and a whole lot more. 00:00:57.929 --> 00:00:59.729 We're really glad to have you here. 00:01:00.209 --> 00:01:02.189 So now onto today's episode. 00:01:02.429 --> 00:01:06.629 I'm really excited to be speaking with Jennifer Holmgren, who is 00:01:06.629 --> 00:01:09.139 the CEO of Lonza Tech, a very. 00:01:09.309 --> 00:01:13.809 Innovative company focused on commercial carbon recycling with 00:01:13.809 --> 00:01:17.199 biology, and I'm sure Jennifer's gonna explain a little bit more about that. 00:01:17.709 --> 00:01:19.389 Throughout its 20 year history. 00:01:19.389 --> 00:01:23.229 Lanza Tech has developed some great products, including Sustainable Aviation 00:01:23.229 --> 00:01:25.449 Fuel, which is now within Lonza Jet. 00:01:25.839 --> 00:01:30.349 They have gone public, and they've done a number of great things. 00:01:30.589 --> 00:01:33.559 So, uh, longtime listeners of the Chemical Show will know that 00:01:33.559 --> 00:01:36.049 Jennifer was featured on episode 60. 00:01:36.149 --> 00:01:39.619 We'll link to that in the show notes so you can find that episode and hear a 00:01:39.619 --> 00:01:41.539 bit of the earlier part of the journey. 00:01:41.829 --> 00:01:45.549 I'm really excited to have this updated conversation as the company 00:01:45.549 --> 00:01:47.709 continues to grow and progress. 00:01:47.919 --> 00:01:50.069 And Jennifer, of course, is leading the way. 00:01:50.219 --> 00:01:52.834 So Jennifer, thank you for joining me on The Chemical Show. 00:01:53.818 --> 00:01:54.838 Jennifer: Thank you, Victoria. 00:01:54.838 --> 00:01:56.068 It's a real pleasure. 00:01:56.669 --> 00:01:57.449 Victoria: Absolutely. 00:01:57.779 --> 00:02:00.659 Let's start a little bit with your origin story. 00:02:00.932 --> 00:02:02.252 How did you get here? 00:02:03.383 --> 00:02:05.003 Jennifer: In a very circuitous way. 00:02:05.003 --> 00:02:05.453 Right? 00:02:05.533 --> 00:02:10.093 I was born in Columbia in a Barilla, uh, the home of Shakira. 00:02:10.093 --> 00:02:14.213 So I just want you to know that's the history for what it's worth. 00:02:14.376 --> 00:02:18.006 from there I had the opportunity to move to the United States when 00:02:18.006 --> 00:02:23.126 I was nine because my father, his company of Bianca, the Colombian 00:02:23.126 --> 00:02:28.596 airline, had a, base there and they wanted him to, to be part of that. 00:02:28.926 --> 00:02:33.066 And it gave us the opportunity to come to the US, learn English and. 00:02:33.154 --> 00:02:34.864 That's how I ended up here. 00:02:34.894 --> 00:02:41.674 The ability to grow in the public school systems to get it, the degrees 00:02:41.674 --> 00:02:45.844 I have, the education I've gotten is, is an amazing opportunity. 00:02:46.284 --> 00:02:47.334 And my parents. 00:02:47.334 --> 00:02:47.424 Home. 00:02:48.444 --> 00:02:53.904 us that by, by making sacrifices and leaving their home, I became a scientist, 00:02:53.904 --> 00:02:56.334 in part because I loved the space program. 00:02:56.334 --> 00:03:00.084 The United Space Program was the highlight of my young life. 00:03:00.084 --> 00:03:05.334 You know, I followed the NASA program and just loved the idea of going to 00:03:05.334 --> 00:03:08.784 space of solving big problems and. 00:03:09.106 --> 00:03:12.496 It made me wanna be a scientist, and I was really encouraged to do 00:03:12.496 --> 00:03:17.986 that my high school education here, and, and that's how I ended up here. 00:03:19.147 --> 00:03:19.437 Victoria: Yeah. 00:03:19.742 --> 00:03:21.722 And that, I mean, that's quite a journey, right? 00:03:21.802 --> 00:03:25.312 And then you started Lonza Tech. 00:03:25.462 --> 00:03:29.452 Tell us, tell us a little bit, you didn't, so tell me about the, 00:03:29.512 --> 00:03:31.072 tell me the Lonza Tech story. 00:03:31.431 --> 00:03:32.151 Jennifer: yeah, yeah. 00:03:32.151 --> 00:03:34.611 So, I, I'm not the founder of Lantech. 00:03:34.851 --> 00:03:36.141 I'm, its first CEO. 00:03:36.472 --> 00:03:36.562 Victoria: Okay. 00:03:36.681 --> 00:03:43.701 Jennifer: And, so Lantech was founded by Sean Simpson and, co-founder Forrester, 00:03:43.701 --> 00:03:53.259 who together decided they didn't wanna use biological feed stocks sugar, et 00:03:53.259 --> 00:03:54.412 cetera, to make pro, to make ethanol. 00:03:54.907 --> 00:03:58.397 Okay, so they had, um, so they started the company. 00:03:58.397 --> 00:04:02.087 They knew there was something called gas fermentation and they thought 00:04:02.087 --> 00:04:04.967 they'd give it a whirl, see if they could make ethanol from that. 00:04:05.327 --> 00:04:10.384 And when they were ready to pilot, that's when I came to the company. 00:04:10.384 --> 00:04:15.014 When it was ready to scale, the lead investor was Vinod ksa, and K one 00:04:15.014 --> 00:04:17.774 W one felt it was time to bring on 00:04:17.805 --> 00:04:18.195 Victoria: Yeah. 00:04:18.465 --> 00:04:20.055 S So when was that? 00:04:20.055 --> 00:04:20.505 Jennifer? 00:04:20.505 --> 00:04:21.405 What year was that? 00:04:21.884 --> 00:04:22.574 Jennifer: 2010. 00:04:23.025 --> 00:04:24.075 Victoria: Okay, so it, 00:04:24.164 --> 00:04:24.674 Jennifer: years. 00:04:24.945 --> 00:04:25.785 Victoria: yeah. 00:04:25.935 --> 00:04:26.505 You've been on it. 00:04:26.565 --> 00:04:29.655 So you've been at Bon Tech for 15 years at this point. 00:04:30.074 --> 00:04:31.154 Jennifer: Exactly. 00:04:31.395 --> 00:04:31.785 Victoria: Wow. 00:04:32.404 --> 00:04:33.049 Jennifer: And I had a great. 00:04:34.249 --> 00:04:41.249 I was the founding vice president of UOP Honeywell's, renewable Energy business. 00:04:41.299 --> 00:04:45.349 I think, you know, I made the first drops of drop in aviation fuel 00:04:45.349 --> 00:04:47.209 and we got at a STM certified. 00:04:47.209 --> 00:04:48.709 We did all the flight demos. 00:04:48.979 --> 00:04:53.959 That was 2009 and 2010, showing the world that you. 00:04:54.224 --> 00:05:01.214 Could fly on a hydrocarbon, a drop in aviation fuel made from a feed 00:05:01.214 --> 00:05:03.614 stock that was not fossil carbon. 00:05:03.890 --> 00:05:04.190 Victoria: Wow. 00:05:05.444 --> 00:05:09.644 Jennifer: that, that work actually got me very excited 00:05:09.644 --> 00:05:11.624 about alternative feed stocks. 00:05:11.624 --> 00:05:18.914 But that work also showed me if you really think about the petroleum industry. 00:05:19.244 --> 00:05:23.774 And the scale of the petroleum industry and the fact that everything 00:05:23.774 --> 00:05:29.264 in our daily lives comes from fossil carbon, you realize that. 00:05:29.981 --> 00:05:33.551 While biological feedstocks, as we know them, sugar, corn, 00:05:33.551 --> 00:05:35.321 et cetera, can contribute. 00:05:36.101 --> 00:05:39.851 You're not gonna get to a hundred million barrels of capacity per day. 00:05:40.587 --> 00:05:40.807 Victoria: No. 00:05:40.841 --> 00:05:43.331 Jennifer: it just, you can't get there from here. 00:05:44.171 --> 00:05:50.231 so Lance Tech, to me, was an opportunity to use feed stocks 00:05:50.291 --> 00:05:53.666 that were widely available Right. 00:05:54.076 --> 00:05:59.236 Recycled carbon emissions so that you could aggregate to a hundred million. 00:05:59.626 --> 00:06:06.016 But what I really loved about it that it's an efficiency play because 00:06:06.222 --> 00:06:06.442 Victoria: Hmm. 00:06:07.396 --> 00:06:12.076 Jennifer: more of a feed stock if you are using emissions at 00:06:12.076 --> 00:06:14.326 a petrochemical company, right? 00:06:14.682 --> 00:06:14.972 Victoria: Yeah. 00:06:15.076 --> 00:06:18.046 Jennifer: are saying is, I wanna use as much of the carbon 00:06:18.076 --> 00:06:20.566 that comes in to make product. 00:06:21.406 --> 00:06:25.966 So you are just making more from the same amount. 00:06:26.266 --> 00:06:31.876 And so that to me is displacing always, constantly taking carbon 00:06:31.876 --> 00:06:36.466 outta the ground, using it and throwing it away either in the sky, 00:06:36.466 --> 00:06:38.536 in the ocean, or in a trash sheep. 00:06:39.002 --> 00:06:42.362 It's just so exciting to think about making more. 00:06:42.695 --> 00:06:43.325 Victoria: Yeah. 00:06:43.355 --> 00:06:48.285 And yet I don't know your numbers, but it's still small scale compared to 00:06:48.319 --> 00:06:48.609 Jennifer: Yeah. 00:06:48.855 --> 00:06:49.935 Victoria: across everything, right? 00:06:49.935 --> 00:06:54.975 We're, people are excited about the opportunity for sustainability 00:06:55.025 --> 00:06:59.285 and it really seemed like in the early part of the 2020s, right? 00:06:59.385 --> 00:07:03.975 Everybody was deep on the sustainability bandwagon, making promises, making 00:07:03.975 --> 00:07:09.225 commitments, et cetera, and then figuring out how hard it really, I. 00:07:10.290 --> 00:07:16.990 Is, and how challenging it is to scale with new technologies to meet 00:07:16.990 --> 00:07:20.140 technologies that have been, you know, when you talk about refining 00:07:20.140 --> 00:07:24.460 products or chemical products, they've been around for a hundred years. 00:07:25.090 --> 00:07:30.528 It's, and so this, there's this certain view of it's not so easy to scale. 00:07:30.573 --> 00:07:32.763 Jennifer: Yeah, it's not so easy to scale. 00:07:32.763 --> 00:07:37.593 You have the background that tells you just how hard it is to scale, even a known 00:07:37.593 --> 00:07:42.963 process or even an incremental improvement to a known process, a small modification. 00:07:43.023 --> 00:07:46.333 And when you're trying to do something disruptive, it is 00:07:46.333 --> 00:07:48.433 a bigger, much bigger deal. 00:07:48.703 --> 00:07:51.433 However, we have done this. 00:07:51.433 --> 00:07:53.713 We have done this as a company, Lanza Tech. 00:07:53.923 --> 00:07:55.303 The world has done it. 00:07:55.633 --> 00:07:57.223 With solar and wind, right. 00:07:57.223 --> 00:08:00.703 10 years ago, everybody was like, oh, solar is still 10 years out. 00:08:00.703 --> 00:08:00.973 It'll 00:08:01.109 --> 00:08:01.589 Victoria: Yeah, 00:08:01.633 --> 00:08:02.143 Jennifer: years out. 00:08:02.383 --> 00:08:05.413 Now you can't even turn around without seeing a solar installation. 00:08:05.413 --> 00:08:05.803 Right. 00:08:06.064 --> 00:08:06.354 Victoria: true. 00:08:06.403 --> 00:08:07.963 Jennifer: and I really, right. 00:08:08.083 --> 00:08:15.613 So, so to me it is possible to change, it is possible to disrupt and. 00:08:16.393 --> 00:08:22.693 We just have to be committed to being on a journey that takes the right steps 00:08:22.723 --> 00:08:25.933 and doesn't get distracted by promises. 00:08:26.354 --> 00:08:26.684 Victoria: Hmm. 00:08:27.013 --> 00:08:31.563 Jennifer: what scares me the most right, is, everybody wants to see a home run. 00:08:32.598 --> 00:08:32.778 We 00:08:33.034 --> 00:08:33.454 Victoria: Yeah. 00:08:33.588 --> 00:08:36.888 Jennifer: that really easy thing because you know that holy grail, 00:08:37.338 --> 00:08:40.788 we know it's there and we're gonna get there, and then we'll be done. 00:08:40.908 --> 00:08:41.718 Then we'll be done. 00:08:41.718 --> 00:08:41.988 It's 00:08:42.019 --> 00:08:42.369 Victoria: Right. 00:08:43.038 --> 00:08:43.398 Jennifer: right? 00:08:43.458 --> 00:08:44.328 We love magic. 00:08:44.328 --> 00:08:44.508 We 00:08:44.524 --> 00:08:45.424 Victoria: We love magic. 00:08:45.678 --> 00:08:46.518 Jennifer: Exactly. 00:08:46.848 --> 00:08:53.233 And I just think that those are a distraction in a mission of creating. 00:08:54.573 --> 00:08:57.183 different trajectory for carbon. 00:08:57.544 --> 00:08:57.904 Victoria: Yeah. 00:08:58.443 --> 00:09:03.453 Jennifer: you know, if we fall in love with notions, we actually stop 00:09:03.453 --> 00:09:05.733 ourselves from making progress. 00:09:06.334 --> 00:09:08.614 Victoria: So I, I think that's such a great point. 00:09:08.770 --> 00:09:12.930 many of the big oil companies, shell and bp, made these great 00:09:12.930 --> 00:09:16.350 commitments, you know, started selling off their traditional assets. 00:09:16.350 --> 00:09:21.050 And then I know just recently, the CEO of BP at, Sierra Week, which 00:09:21.050 --> 00:09:26.390 happened in the early part of March, was talking about how they've gone back to 00:09:26.420 --> 00:09:32.770 away from renewable, and green energy and back to traditional oil and gas. 00:09:32.879 --> 00:09:33.509 It's hard. 00:09:33.749 --> 00:09:38.849 How does this affect you and Lanza Tech and what you guys are doing? 00:09:38.899 --> 00:09:39.889 How do you balance this? 00:09:39.889 --> 00:09:41.414 What do you, what strikes you with that? 00:09:41.888 --> 00:09:45.518 Jennifer: I, I do believe the pendulum swing is very 00:09:45.609 --> 00:09:45.729 Victoria: Hmm. 00:09:46.828 --> 00:09:51.598 Jennifer: For us because we need people to be committed to 00:09:51.868 --> 00:09:53.788 what I would call a transition. 00:09:53.848 --> 00:10:00.388 And I, I think of a transition not simply as carbon abatement, but at 00:10:00.388 --> 00:10:05.788 a different way of making products where we actually think of carbon. 00:10:06.058 --> 00:10:12.148 Whether it comes from fossil or trash or emissions as something that's precious 00:10:12.519 --> 00:10:12.739 Victoria: Hmm. 00:10:12.868 --> 00:10:16.948 Jennifer: need to properly utilize and take as much advantage of, 00:10:17.548 --> 00:10:25.611 I think it's nearsighted to consider it a massive opportunity, 00:10:25.911 --> 00:10:30.951 right, because just like energy efficiency is a massive opportunity. 00:10:31.133 --> 00:10:35.633 You reduce costs, you pay less, but you get the same output or even more. 00:10:35.963 --> 00:10:37.883 That's energy efficiency, right? 00:10:38.363 --> 00:10:39.623 What's carbon efficiency? 00:10:39.623 --> 00:10:40.613 It's the same thing. 00:10:41.033 --> 00:10:45.533 You make more from less, you know, you make more money because the feed 00:10:45.533 --> 00:10:48.113 stock is what drives economics, right? 00:10:48.383 --> 00:10:51.443 What you put in is what drives the economics. 00:10:51.683 --> 00:10:56.198 So if you can get more from the same input, that's a big. 00:10:57.848 --> 00:10:58.058 and 00:10:58.179 --> 00:10:58.659 Victoria: Yeah. 00:10:58.718 --> 00:10:59.888 Jennifer: more profitable. 00:11:00.188 --> 00:11:06.638 But people are missing the point, and me it's about local manufacturing. 00:11:06.638 --> 00:11:08.438 From local feed stocks. 00:11:08.558 --> 00:11:11.618 It's about making more profit from the same input. 00:11:11.948 --> 00:11:19.028 It's about jobs and it's about security of supply because if you make products 00:11:19.328 --> 00:11:20.978 that you don't always have to import. 00:11:21.433 --> 00:11:23.353 There's more security. 00:11:23.353 --> 00:11:27.373 And so all these things are important, and I think to just 00:11:27.373 --> 00:11:30.343 swing back kinda misses the point. 00:11:30.704 --> 00:11:31.034 Victoria: Yeah. 00:11:31.454 --> 00:11:36.254 How does this change what, how you guys are approaching both customers 00:11:36.254 --> 00:11:40.394 and business partners, because you've partnered with many big companies 00:11:40.604 --> 00:11:45.344 to help get your technology in place and commercialized and utilized. 00:11:45.883 --> 00:11:46.603 Jennifer: Absolutely. 00:11:46.603 --> 00:11:52.393 And I think the way I think about it is there's always been the ones that you're 00:11:52.393 --> 00:11:54.313 not gonna be able to get across the line. 00:11:54.523 --> 00:11:54.943 Okay? 00:11:54.943 --> 00:12:00.133 When you're doing something new, you've got to accept when you are 00:12:00.133 --> 00:12:02.293 going to be successful, right? 00:12:02.323 --> 00:12:07.313 You can't always assume you'll always be successful, and you go 00:12:07.313 --> 00:12:09.713 after the people that have the same. 00:12:09.981 --> 00:12:11.271 Views of the world. 00:12:11.271 --> 00:12:11.871 As you do. 00:12:12.261 --> 00:12:14.001 So we have projects in India. 00:12:14.241 --> 00:12:19.521 If you listen to the Minister of Petroleum there and even the Prime Minister 00:12:19.521 --> 00:12:21.591 speak, what are they trying to do? 00:12:21.981 --> 00:12:23.811 They wanna use local resources. 00:12:23.931 --> 00:12:27.981 'cause every time they import something, their money goes out of the country. 00:12:28.127 --> 00:12:28.417 Victoria: Yeah. 00:12:28.551 --> 00:12:30.441 Jennifer: as they're growing the economy. 00:12:31.326 --> 00:12:37.326 cannot afford to grow it quickly if all the money that that growth brings goes 00:12:37.326 --> 00:12:38.946 out of the country to buy feedstock. 00:12:39.426 --> 00:12:40.446 So they get it. 00:12:40.476 --> 00:12:41.286 They get that. 00:12:41.286 --> 00:12:44.256 What they wanna do is use more of their local resources. 00:12:44.556 --> 00:12:47.646 Using more local resources means one thing. 00:12:47.826 --> 00:12:53.316 Find different feed stocks, find every carbon wherever it is, and use it. 00:12:53.316 --> 00:12:54.606 And so. 00:12:54.901 --> 00:12:59.011 While some folks are going in a direction that is different than the 00:12:59.011 --> 00:13:01.848 direction we wanna go in, others are not. 00:13:01.848 --> 00:13:05.718 So for a company that's small, you go to where the opportunity is. 00:13:05.718 --> 00:13:07.158 That's the only choice you have. 00:13:07.414 --> 00:13:08.254 Victoria: Yeah, absolutely. 00:13:08.284 --> 00:13:12.784 And I love your point about localization, and I hadn't fully appreciated that as 00:13:12.784 --> 00:13:16.414 part of, Lonza tech's value proposition and what you're, you're doing. 00:13:16.414 --> 00:13:21.094 'cause certainly in the business environment that we're in today, 00:13:21.124 --> 00:13:25.264 there's, you know, with tariffs and geopolitical tensions, there does 00:13:25.264 --> 00:13:31.234 seem to be this whole trend towards regionalization and localization and, 00:13:31.347 --> 00:13:35.637 the simplest part of me says, well, yes, if you can ship 00:13:35.697 --> 00:13:38.667 anything less, that's better. 00:13:38.777 --> 00:13:41.777 Although the economics may not always tie together in other places. 00:13:42.107 --> 00:13:46.527 So I just think that's really an interesting, part of your value, uh, is 00:13:46.527 --> 00:13:51.867 creating the, the local opportunities with local feedstocks for local supply points. 00:13:52.406 --> 00:13:53.276 Jennifer: Yep, yep. 00:13:53.306 --> 00:13:56.096 And I would add one more thing that is quite interesting. 00:13:56.096 --> 00:14:00.986 If you stop and think about it, the further down the value chain 00:14:00.986 --> 00:14:05.936 you get in manufacturing, the higher value that product is. 00:14:06.507 --> 00:14:06.707 Victoria: Yes. 00:14:07.451 --> 00:14:10.721 Jennifer: if you think about it, if you can use local feed stocks and 00:14:10.721 --> 00:14:17.531 not just export them, but make local feed stocks into more value add 00:14:17.531 --> 00:14:24.551 products, you are actually exporting something that has more value so that 00:14:24.702 --> 00:14:25.002 Victoria: Hmm. 00:14:25.841 --> 00:14:30.581 Jennifer: component and the local jobs component and the capturing value at 00:14:30.581 --> 00:14:33.401 a community level is important too. 00:14:33.987 --> 00:14:35.157 Victoria: Yeah, really critical. 00:14:35.817 --> 00:14:38.547 So let's dial it back a little bit. 00:14:38.547 --> 00:14:42.747 So, success for Lonza Tech has been 20 years in the making. 00:14:43.077 --> 00:14:47.067 , which, you know, it's, it's funny because everybody assumes, uh, oh, you 00:14:47.067 --> 00:14:48.537 know, I just heard about Lonza Tech. 00:14:48.537 --> 00:14:50.007 That's an overnight success story. 00:14:50.007 --> 00:14:53.037 And it's like, eh, no, there was a lot of work. 00:14:53.182 --> 00:14:57.402 Going on, in the background that people didn't see, obviously, 00:14:57.732 --> 00:15:01.152 the company started small as all innovative companies do. 00:15:01.152 --> 00:15:03.312 You're still relatively small today. 00:15:03.402 --> 00:15:04.962 Um, and yet you are. 00:15:05.292 --> 00:15:07.422 LensTech Global is listed on the nasdaq. 00:15:07.422 --> 00:15:10.892 You've got several businesses that are their own entities. 00:15:10.892 --> 00:15:13.742 And I know that recently I've seen some news that you've received 00:15:13.742 --> 00:15:17.702 your first shipments of Carbon Smart ethanol, which is exciting. 00:15:18.352 --> 00:15:22.132 Is this part of your vision when you started, what was Lonza Tech 00:15:22.132 --> 00:15:26.122 trying to do and could you imagine, uh, the company that it is today? 00:15:26.248 --> 00:15:29.128 Jennifer: I don't know that it was clear that this is where 00:15:29.204 --> 00:15:29.324 Victoria: I. 00:15:29.458 --> 00:15:34.108 Jennifer: headed, but, but you know, it got started as a company to take, 00:15:34.158 --> 00:15:37.848 waste gas to, to ethanol, right? 00:15:38.178 --> 00:15:43.068 And we've now really been able to understand the power of the platform, 00:15:43.338 --> 00:15:48.408 not just to take, waste steel mill emissions, but municipal solid waste 00:15:48.408 --> 00:15:55.848 and biomass and CO2, that that's all the value of the platform as an input. 00:15:56.298 --> 00:16:02.358 And then I think there is a transition to ethanol, not as the product. 00:16:02.733 --> 00:16:09.003 But an intermediate ethanol as a way to make the feedstock for making sustainable 00:16:09.003 --> 00:16:15.573 aviation fuel ethanol as the way to get to ethylene so that you can make polyester. 00:16:15.843 --> 00:16:21.393 So really is saying, look, this waste is very hard to move. 00:16:21.393 --> 00:16:23.643 I'm not gonna move trash around all over the world 00:16:23.864 --> 00:16:24.154 Victoria: Yeah. 00:16:24.453 --> 00:16:27.843 Jennifer: to use it as a feedstock, but if I can take that 00:16:27.843 --> 00:16:29.883 trash and turn it into ethanol. 00:16:30.363 --> 00:16:34.053 I can move the ethanol around and make all the other products. 00:16:34.263 --> 00:16:39.485 So it's almost like a way to create a movable intermediate, and you 00:16:39.485 --> 00:16:41.225 know this from the oil sector, right? 00:16:41.495 --> 00:16:44.735 Petroleum is the densest liquid known to man. 00:16:44.735 --> 00:16:48.695 And so it's easy to move around and that's what we do. 00:16:48.825 --> 00:16:53.355 But this time maybe we have to take the plants to the feedstock, 00:16:53.625 --> 00:16:55.605 and it's the product ethanol. 00:16:56.040 --> 00:16:57.180 That we move around? 00:16:57.511 --> 00:16:57.751 Victoria: Hmm. 00:16:57.841 --> 00:16:58.351 Makes sense. 00:16:58.531 --> 00:16:59.551 And, and I think you're right. 00:16:59.551 --> 00:17:02.431 I mean, I think we've often across the chemical industry called, 00:17:02.511 --> 00:17:06.561 polyethylene, for instance, solid ethylene, nobody's moving ethylene. 00:17:06.650 --> 00:17:07.220 Jennifer: Yeah. 00:17:07.281 --> 00:17:09.681 Victoria: now they are like that, that's a whole different story. 00:17:09.951 --> 00:17:15.571 Um, but you know, historically you, you move the products because it's 00:17:15.571 --> 00:17:17.041 the most efficient way to do it. 00:17:17.091 --> 00:17:18.051 So I think that's. 00:17:18.516 --> 00:17:22.026 You know, and the ethanol piece is absolutely the same because an ethanol 00:17:22.026 --> 00:17:24.306 becomes a feedstock to other things. 00:17:24.696 --> 00:17:27.276 Your role today, I would imagine. 00:17:27.786 --> 00:17:29.586 Is very different, right? 00:17:29.586 --> 00:17:32.676 You've got, the company itself is very different. 00:17:32.676 --> 00:17:33.936 You're a public company. 00:17:34.186 --> 00:17:37.966 you've got investors, public, private, what have you. 00:17:37.966 --> 00:17:43.716 You've got an, a variety of entities inside of the Lonza tech 00:17:43.716 --> 00:17:45.156 umbrella that you are running. 00:17:46.446 --> 00:17:52.343 How do you ready yourself to be ready for that, um, such a different 00:17:52.343 --> 00:17:53.723 company than where you started? 00:17:54.332 --> 00:18:01.376 Jennifer: I think it's really important to commit to change at the team level 00:18:01.376 --> 00:18:08.906 as well, you know, and, and how do you transition from the very entrepreneurial 00:18:09.506 --> 00:18:16.736 engineering team, right to the, I'm going to be replicating and reducing cost 00:18:16.736 --> 00:18:22.663 engineering team, you have to accept that there is a dynamic inside the company 00:18:23.179 --> 00:18:29.349 talent and a progression of talent that is different than, than what you start with. 00:18:29.765 --> 00:18:29.885 Victoria: Hmm. 00:18:30.039 --> 00:18:35.126 Jennifer: and, and you know that that includes everybody from a scientist, an 00:18:35.126 --> 00:18:40.099 engineer to a leader, to the CEO, right? 00:18:40.159 --> 00:18:42.529 That you always gotta be thinking. 00:18:42.743 --> 00:18:44.633 Am I in the right place at the right time? 00:18:44.633 --> 00:18:47.923 And in some ways you can tell by how happy you are, right? 00:18:48.193 --> 00:18:53.293 If, if sometimes you, you, you are a person who wants to start a company. 00:18:53.293 --> 00:18:57.043 You're a person that wants to do the first ever prototype. 00:18:58.003 --> 00:19:02.503 And you always, if you are mentally prepared for 00:19:02.503 --> 00:19:04.963 transition, self-select right And 00:19:05.044 --> 00:19:05.124 Victoria: Hmm. 00:19:05.953 --> 00:19:06.283 Jennifer: Hmm. 00:19:06.343 --> 00:19:10.693 This isn't what I wanna be doing now, so you always have to be 00:19:10.693 --> 00:19:12.733 dynamic and bringing in new people. 00:19:12.733 --> 00:19:17.593 To me, about creating that transition mental state. 00:19:18.344 --> 00:19:18.854 Victoria: Yeah. 00:19:18.904 --> 00:19:20.614 And that growth mindset where you started. 00:19:20.614 --> 00:19:25.714 And I think, um, I've had the opportunity to, to work with and advise a number 00:19:25.744 --> 00:19:29.904 of, early stage startups as they move into commercialization, et cetera. 00:19:30.024 --> 00:19:33.234 And I think one of the hardest piece, and you talked about how, 00:19:33.634 --> 00:19:37.414 for instance, your engineering team goes from creation to efficiency. 00:19:37.414 --> 00:19:40.564 And, and I think that's one of the hardest things for people not 00:19:40.564 --> 00:19:46.654 working in a startup ecosystem to understand and appreciate that. 00:19:46.994 --> 00:19:51.854 It's skill-based and that part of this is, you know, to a 00:19:51.854 --> 00:19:53.384 traditional chemical company, right? 00:19:53.384 --> 00:19:55.814 I worked for Shell for a very long time. 00:19:55.814 --> 00:20:00.254 Many, many of my friends started at Shell and retired from Shell. 00:20:00.478 --> 00:20:00.768 Jennifer: Yeah. 00:20:00.854 --> 00:20:05.894 Victoria: and so the idea of going into an environment where you know that, 00:20:05.894 --> 00:20:08.354 hey, my journey may only be five years. 00:20:09.289 --> 00:20:14.839 Because that's the scope of work that's interesting and exciting and fits me. 00:20:14.935 --> 00:20:18.715 and then I have to move on to something else because the company and the business 00:20:18.835 --> 00:20:20.485 is in a different phase of its journey. 00:20:20.485 --> 00:20:24.565 And I think, people that work with mature companies don't always appreciate 00:20:24.925 --> 00:20:30.475 the dynamic of an immature startup company and, and startup ecosystem. 00:20:31.384 --> 00:20:32.194 Jennifer: Absolutely. 00:20:32.361 --> 00:20:33.501 I think that's right. 00:20:33.501 --> 00:20:35.271 I think you have to think about the world 00:20:35.622 --> 00:20:35.912 Victoria: Yeah. 00:20:36.531 --> 00:20:39.741 Jennifer: and I think it's also quite tiring in some ways. 00:20:39.741 --> 00:20:43.491 There's an exciting element, but there's also the, I need to build better 00:20:43.491 --> 00:20:46.131 infrastructure because I need to grow. 00:20:46.131 --> 00:20:50.691 And, and to be honest, sometimes that's why the large company, small 00:20:50.691 --> 00:20:54.771 company partnerships work so well because they each have to bring. 00:20:55.016 --> 00:20:56.036 Different things. 00:20:56.036 --> 00:20:57.896 They each bring different things. 00:20:57.896 --> 00:21:03.739 And, have lots of large partners who have brought a lot to what we do, whether 00:21:03.820 --> 00:21:04.060 Victoria: Yeah. 00:21:04.129 --> 00:21:06.379 Jennifer: thinking or something else. 00:21:06.419 --> 00:21:10.469 I just think that we need to be open to that. 00:21:10.559 --> 00:21:13.679 I think a lot of people say, oh, I, I worry about working with a big 00:21:13.679 --> 00:21:17.969 company, but I, I don't think that's the right way to think about it. 00:21:17.969 --> 00:21:20.009 I think the question is, what can I help? 00:21:20.349 --> 00:21:23.379 That big company do, and what can they help me do? 00:21:23.379 --> 00:21:24.789 What can they teach me? 00:21:25.149 --> 00:21:28.059 Because there is a lot to be learned from people that have 00:21:28.059 --> 00:21:29.859 been around for 200 years, right? 00:21:30.069 --> 00:21:31.209 You say 20 years. 00:21:31.209 --> 00:21:31.659 Oh my gosh. 00:21:31.659 --> 00:21:32.559 That's a lot. 00:21:32.889 --> 00:21:34.689 That's a drop in the bucket with 00:21:34.720 --> 00:21:35.080 Victoria: Yeah. 00:21:35.139 --> 00:21:36.699 Jennifer: chemical companies, right? 00:21:36.699 --> 00:21:40.359 Who, who have taught us how to make all these things that we use today. 00:21:40.765 --> 00:21:41.515 Victoria: Absolutely. 00:21:41.515 --> 00:21:42.415 And I think you're right. 00:21:42.415 --> 00:21:44.245 Those partnerships are critical, right? 00:21:44.245 --> 00:21:48.985 Because, inside of a big company, the innovations that a company like Lonza 00:21:49.015 --> 00:21:52.795 Tech is bringing in, in some ways they don't move the needle, right? 00:21:52.795 --> 00:21:55.945 They get cut because they don't fit the innovation profile. 00:21:55.945 --> 00:22:00.175 When you say, well, we need something that becomes a business of. 00:22:00.550 --> 00:22:01.990 X billion dollars. 00:22:02.020 --> 00:22:05.950 Well, we don't know when a new innovation is gonna get to that point. 00:22:05.950 --> 00:22:12.340 So the opportunity for, companies like Lonza Tech to be innovating, bringing 00:22:12.340 --> 00:22:16.330 solutions and products to market, and then pairing with the big companies 00:22:16.330 --> 00:22:21.430 who have the ability to standardize it, to really take it to market, to take 00:22:21.430 --> 00:22:23.600 it to customers, is really critical. 00:22:23.600 --> 00:22:24.770 And I think we're seeing that. 00:22:25.022 --> 00:22:30.362 The successful startups and partnerships we're seeing that happen regularly, 00:22:30.392 --> 00:22:31.832 I think, across the industry. 00:22:32.476 --> 00:22:32.746 Jennifer: Yep. 00:22:33.212 --> 00:22:33.512 Victoria: Yeah. 00:22:34.456 --> 00:22:34.786 Jennifer: I, I 00:22:34.832 --> 00:22:35.072 Victoria: Yeah. 00:22:35.206 --> 00:22:36.556 Jennifer: become more pervasive. 00:22:36.556 --> 00:22:41.069 There's an understanding across both sides of this aisle that it is 00:22:41.069 --> 00:22:45.179 important to partner and that that is how success will be created. 00:22:45.179 --> 00:22:50.999 And I think people are very open minded now to how to work together. 00:22:51.645 --> 00:22:52.455 Victoria: Yeah, I love that. 00:22:52.785 --> 00:22:58.766 So, Jennifer, you have had a really successful career for many, many years. 00:22:59.088 --> 00:23:05.998 . What advice do you have for businesses and for young professionals, maybe 00:23:05.998 --> 00:23:09.358 that are in the early stages of their career that look at this and say, I 00:23:09.358 --> 00:23:11.758 wanna be leading an innovative company. 00:23:11.758 --> 00:23:15.298 I wanna be CEO, I wanna achieve this kind of success. 00:23:15.748 --> 00:23:18.598 What advice do you have for, for people early in their careers? 00:23:18.682 --> 00:23:24.200 Jennifer: I think that the only advice that I think makes sense is to follow 00:23:24.200 --> 00:23:26.360 your passions, follow what you love. 00:23:26.570 --> 00:23:29.840 Don't, don't overplan it, the road will get you there. 00:23:30.020 --> 00:23:32.993 It's just that you have to love what you do. 00:23:33.043 --> 00:23:38.933 We work so many hours a day and you know if you do it because you love what 00:23:38.933 --> 00:23:42.923 you do, if you love it because you love the people you work with, if you, if 00:23:42.923 --> 00:23:47.393 you wanna get up in the morning and do it again, that's my only advice. 00:23:47.393 --> 00:23:52.793 Don't, don't go down a road that isn't one that you can make your own. 00:23:53.103 --> 00:23:54.033 That's what I would say. 00:23:54.554 --> 00:23:55.009 Victoria: I love it. 00:23:55.459 --> 00:23:57.019 That's great advice. 00:23:57.139 --> 00:23:58.669 Well, Jennifer, thank you so much. 00:23:58.669 --> 00:24:00.529 This has been a great conversation. 00:24:00.559 --> 00:24:04.939 I, really appreciate you taking the time to speak with me and to speak 00:24:04.939 --> 00:24:06.454 with the Chemical show audience. 00:24:07.623 --> 00:24:09.093 Jennifer: Thank you for having me. 00:24:09.093 --> 00:24:12.213 It really is a pleasure and an honor to see you again, Victoria. 00:24:12.469 --> 00:24:15.499 Victoria: Thank you and thank you everyone for joining us today. 00:24:15.499 --> 00:24:18.169 Keep listening, keep following, keep sharing, and we will 00:24:18.169 --> 00:24:19.819 talk with you again soon. 00:24:20.882 --> 00:24:23.102 Thanks for joining us today on The Chemical Show. 00:24:23.432 --> 00:24:27.932 If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to subscribe, leave a review, 00:24:28.172 --> 00:24:31.562 and most importantly, share it with your friends and colleagues. 00:24:32.552 --> 00:24:35.882 For more insights, visit the Chemical show.com 00:24:36.362 --> 00:24:37.847 and connect with us on LinkedIn. 00:24:38.612 --> 00:24:42.572 You can find me at Victoria King Meyer on LinkedIn, and you can also 00:24:42.572 --> 00:24:44.732 find us at The Chemical Show Podcast. 00:24:44.912 --> 00:24:48.092 Join us next time for more conversations and strategies 00:24:48.392 --> 00:24:50.162 shaping the future of the industry. 00:24:50.552 --> 00:24:51.272 We'll see you soon.