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<v Speaker 1>You're listening to the Bible guys, a podcast where a

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<v Speaker 1>couple of friends talk about the Bible in fun in

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<v Speaker 1>practical ways. Well, good morning, good morning, there you go,

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<v Speaker 1>we talked. Oh yeah, good morning to you and you

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<v Speaker 1>and you.

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<v Speaker 2>Good job Chris.

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<v Speaker 1>Hey, good morning everybody. Welcome to the Bible guys, Today's Thursday.

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<v Speaker 1>I decided to save.

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<v Speaker 2>The good morning, starting to worry that it wasn't gonna happen.

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<v Speaker 2>I mean last week he jump right off on Monday.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, was a close one.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, so almost weeked right underneath the yes, just under

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<v Speaker 2>the line there, good job man.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah. Well, hey, welcome to the Bible guys. This is

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<v Speaker 1>a great episode today, Today's Thursday, and we're talking about

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<v Speaker 1>God's well is gift of eternal life.

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<v Speaker 2>It's it's actually a question for you. Yes, what interesting

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<v Speaker 2>thing did you do in the last two days?

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<v Speaker 1>What interesting thing did I do in the last two days?

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, the last five days?

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<v Speaker 1>What?

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<v Speaker 2>Well?

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<v Speaker 1>I went to time Detroit?

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<v Speaker 2>Oh yeah, do you like the Detroit thing? Yes, go

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<v Speaker 2>to a show.

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<v Speaker 1>We were and saw a concert.

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<v Speaker 2>Yes, good with your wife, going a date, all that

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<v Speaker 2>kind of stuff.

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<v Speaker 1>What are you driving at?

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<v Speaker 2>Nothing? I just was thinking that, you know, this is

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<v Speaker 2>going to be one of those days where we let

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<v Speaker 2>guests ask questions, and so I thought I'd ask you

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<v Speaker 2>a question before we let the guest to it, because

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<v Speaker 2>I never get to ask you questions like that for reals. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>I had no agenda. I'm just curious about the wonderful

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<v Speaker 2>life of zar Ball.

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<v Speaker 1>Really huh, Well, I think that's sort of out of

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<v Speaker 1>the blue and took me by surprise.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, well, there you go. See, isn't that nice?

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<v Speaker 1>Sure?

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<v Speaker 2>I actually all right, you owe me one.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, let me just say this. Let me just say this.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm going to promote. I'm going to promote the David

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<v Speaker 1>Whitney Hotel.

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<v Speaker 2>It's a good hotel. The Whitney is amazing.

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<v Speaker 1>In the eighteen hundreds, it was so lovely and wonderful,

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<v Speaker 1>and we decided to make a weekend of it.

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<v Speaker 2>They spent millions renovating that place. I'm sure millions and

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<v Speaker 2>millions of I'm.

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<v Speaker 1>Sure they did because we because we saw the fruits

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<v Speaker 1>of it. And I'm telling you, it was extremely impressive.

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<v Speaker 1>And somehow it felt ancient, and like the style of

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<v Speaker 1>everything was ancient, but somehow it felt one hundred percent modern.

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<v Speaker 1>I mean not eighty not eighty percent modern, one hundred

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<v Speaker 1>percent modern. So other than the air duct system, like

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<v Speaker 1>we realized how ancient that was. It made a lot

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<v Speaker 1>of noise, it was small and all that stuff, but

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<v Speaker 1>like everything felt old but it was brand new. Wow,

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<v Speaker 1>and so it was just it was just incredible.

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<v Speaker 2>Well cool.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, So anyway, all that to say, it was a

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<v Speaker 1>little expensive, but it was a Marriott hotel. Lit's get points.

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<v Speaker 1>So that's why we did bonvoy.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah, yeah, well good, Yeah. I think it's just interesting.

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<v Speaker 2>People love hearing about zar Ba. Oh come on, and

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<v Speaker 2>you sang to us today. So then I thought, let's

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<v Speaker 2>find out what it's been up to.

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<v Speaker 1>That's really it. That was it. Well what about you, Jeff,

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<v Speaker 1>how what have you been up to?

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<v Speaker 2>Not much? So today is stumped the pastor and which

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<v Speaker 2>is one of our favorite segments. I'm still confused, and

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<v Speaker 2>it's always I just I think we do a lot

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<v Speaker 2>of the same things at the beginning of every show.

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<v Speaker 2>So I just thought I'll do something different.

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<v Speaker 1>Man, all right, by that that makes sense to that

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<v Speaker 1>thought makes sense.

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<v Speaker 2>So you know, it's freaked out. He's like looking at

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<v Speaker 2>me as I'm like, I'm like, what are you up too.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm waiting like five minutes from how we're gonna go.

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<v Speaker 2>Ah ha, but you even to find out I'm going

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<v Speaker 2>through your wallet right picked. So, uh, the stump the

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<v Speaker 2>pastor is we have guests that are listeners that will

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<v Speaker 2>write in and say, hey, I've always wondered about this

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<v Speaker 2>from the Bible, and since where the Bible? Guys, Usually

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<v Speaker 2>the stumped the pastors are stuff about the Bible, are

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<v Speaker 2>about faith or something like that. So Jony p she's

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<v Speaker 2>one of our regular listeners. Yes, she makes lots of

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<v Speaker 2>comments and things, and so she's she's like a platinum listener. Yes, probably,

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<v Speaker 2>don't you think. Well, we've definitely level.

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<v Speaker 1>We definitely received many questions from Jony.

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<v Speaker 2>Yea and comments and so hi Jony, Hi Joni. And

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<v Speaker 2>here's a question. She says, can you explain how it

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<v Speaker 2>is possible? This is a heavy question. Can you explain

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<v Speaker 2>how it is possible that I can be happy in

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<v Speaker 2>heaven if my loved ones have not been saved and

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<v Speaker 2>would not be there with me? Yeah, this is actually

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<v Speaker 2>I love The heart behind the question.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, the heart behind the question is it is incredibly sad. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>So I actually don't I don't think that I can

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<v Speaker 1>come up with a sadder thought, right.

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<v Speaker 2>There isn't one no, there isn't one no.

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<v Speaker 1>To be separated from a loved one for eternity is

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<v Speaker 1>heartbreaking no matter what, it doesn't matter. That thought is

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<v Speaker 1>just incredibly, incredibly sad. So it's the reality of like hell. So,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, the some scholars over the past couple decades

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<v Speaker 1>have tried to erase hell, the idea of hell. Yeah. Sure,

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<v Speaker 1>And there was a very famous author and there was

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<v Speaker 1>a wave that sort of swept through the chur which

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<v Speaker 1>is even the theology through the churches that maybe God

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<v Speaker 1>perhaps wouldn't condemn anybody, but just give everybody a second

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<v Speaker 1>and third and a fourth chance, and maybe perhaps everybody

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<v Speaker 1>makes it into heaven and that there is no hell.

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<v Speaker 1>But at the same time, you know, if you were to,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, take the Gospels literally and you know, take

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<v Speaker 1>Jesus at his word, the Bible is pretty clear that

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<v Speaker 1>there is a heaven, there is a hell, and it

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<v Speaker 1>is a very sad thought that most people don't want

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<v Speaker 1>to think about. But the idea is is, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>when we get to heaven, how could we even be

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<v Speaker 1>happy if our loved ones aren't with us? So I

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<v Speaker 1>only have one answer, Jeff, and it's not based on

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<v Speaker 1>It is based on scripture, but it is the only

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<v Speaker 1>comforting thought that I can come up with, which is,

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<v Speaker 1>I believe what the Scripture says when he says He'll

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<v Speaker 1>wipe away every tear and there'll be no more sorrow.

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<v Speaker 1>There's no more what is that revelation twenty one? There's

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<v Speaker 1>no more.

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<v Speaker 2>People ie every tear from their eyes. You have be

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<v Speaker 2>no more death or sorrow or crying or pain. All

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<v Speaker 2>these things are gone forever, forever.

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<v Speaker 1>So therefore, and by the way, this is the same

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<v Speaker 1>answer that I answered in the Baptist Baba College mail

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<v Speaker 1>room to Sean Sears, who's a pastor currently in Boston

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<v Speaker 1>by the Way of Grace Church. He's a good friend

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<v Speaker 1>of mine. But anyway, he asked me, he said, won't

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<v Speaker 1>you get bored in heaven? He goes, the idea of

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<v Speaker 1>eternity makes me want to throw up. That's what he

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<v Speaker 1>said to me in the mail room. He said, he goes.

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<v Speaker 1>If I think about eternity and I think about being

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<v Speaker 1>there for billions and billions and billions of years, and

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<v Speaker 1>then I think of that being like one day, and

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<v Speaker 1>that being just the very beginning, and the idea of

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<v Speaker 1>always existing forever. He said, it makes me want to

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<v Speaker 1>throw up because I think to myself, that is the

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<v Speaker 1>most boring existence that I could ever even imagine. He said,

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<v Speaker 1>what would you say about that?

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<v Speaker 2>Wow?

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<v Speaker 1>And I actually said to me, I actually said to him,

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<v Speaker 1>I said, well, I'm going to trust in Revelation twenty

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<v Speaker 1>one that says it's impossible to be bored, right. So,

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<v Speaker 1>like the idea of boring being a negative feeling to

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<v Speaker 1>you know, boredom leads to depression, Boredom leads to you know, sadness,

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<v Speaker 1>Boredom leads to all sorts of things that are negative.

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<v Speaker 1>And the scripture says, and so I cling to the

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<v Speaker 1>fact that it is literally impossible to be sad in heaven. Right.

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<v Speaker 1>So therefore, you know, will the reality and the knowledge

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<v Speaker 1>be available to me that our loved ones are not

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<v Speaker 1>with us? I think so, based on everything we know

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<v Speaker 1>about interpersonal relationships identity, right, you know, the apostles have identities,

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<v Speaker 1>the martyrs have identities, Abraham and Lazarus have personal identities,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, Elijah, Moses, you know, people beyond eternity. There's

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<v Speaker 1>indications that we will retain knowledge of identity. So I

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<v Speaker 1>believe that there will be identities. I think there would

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<v Speaker 1>be knowledge. I think I'll recognize my wife in heaven.

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<v Speaker 2>I think all the Boble says, the Bible says, you

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<v Speaker 2>will be known and fully known, and you will know

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<v Speaker 2>him because you'll see him as he is. Yes, Yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>so you'll you'll know and be known.

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<v Speaker 1>Yes, So I believe that I'll have the knowledge that

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<v Speaker 1>that you know that this is my this was my wife,

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<v Speaker 1>and maybe even still as my wife or you know,

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<v Speaker 1>or or my children or whatever it is. Now, will

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<v Speaker 1>my mentality be different? Will I be disassociated from the

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<v Speaker 1>same feelings that I have from those identities?

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<v Speaker 2>I don't.

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<v Speaker 1>I don't know that. That's a great that's a great discussion.

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<v Speaker 2>Right, Well, you will have you will have a perfect perspective.

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<v Speaker 2>Right now, you have an imperfect perspective, that's imperfect feelings

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<v Speaker 2>about your relationships, and in that context you will have

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<v Speaker 2>you'll have a god like, a godly perspective.

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<v Speaker 1>Yes, so it's probably safe to say even my feelings

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<v Speaker 1>about my personal relationships with you, right so, like right

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<v Speaker 1>now I have.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, there's that guy.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, so I think that I think I think it's

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<v Speaker 1>safe to say that we'll feel different, we'll have knowledge

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<v Speaker 1>that is different, but I think we'll have a personal

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<v Speaker 1>identity knowledge in history.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 1>So therefore, I'm going to cling to the fact that

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<v Speaker 1>there will be people in my life that I know

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<v Speaker 1>will not be with me in eternity. But yet I

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<v Speaker 1>will cling to the fact that it is impossible to

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<v Speaker 1>be sad about such things. Yeah, that's what That's what

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<v Speaker 1>I believe.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I think it's likely that he will eliminate the memory. Really,

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<v Speaker 2>yeah of that? Yeah, m.

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<v Speaker 1>Do you have a scripture based on that or do

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<v Speaker 1>you just.

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<v Speaker 2>Thinking it's just based on that same scripture, same scripture. Okay,

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<v Speaker 2>he's making everything new. The old have and the old

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<v Speaker 2>earth has gone by this point, he's made everything new.

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<v Speaker 2>So yeah, so Joni, here's here's the bigger thing. If

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<v Speaker 2>the people that you love are still living, there is

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<v Speaker 2>nothing more important than you learning God's words well enough

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<v Speaker 2>to be able to explain the gospel and lead them

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<v Speaker 2>to Jesus. And a lot of times we don't share

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<v Speaker 2>the gospel, we don't use scripture because we're afraid they

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<v Speaker 2>might be offended. But what do you have to lose

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<v Speaker 2>if that's the final outcome? You don't have anything to lose. Right, Instead,

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<v Speaker 2>James says, if any of us like wisdom, let us

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<v Speaker 2>ask of God, who gives liberally to everyone who asks. Right.

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<v Speaker 2>So we need wisdom and discernment on how we also

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<v Speaker 2>need the tools we need to learn how to share

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<v Speaker 2>the gospel. Whether you know Bernie Schmidt at Heritage Church

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<v Speaker 2>teaches how to use the three circles right, the three

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<v Speaker 2>circles of the Gospel and or the Romans Road or whatever.

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<v Speaker 2>But learn some scriptures to be able to gently speak

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<v Speaker 2>the truth in love? And was it Jude talks about

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<v Speaker 2>some are saved by fear of hell, others are saved

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<v Speaker 2>because of love. Right, So you're also looking for God's

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<v Speaker 2>tactic on which is the thing that will get my

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<v Speaker 2>loved one's attention to share the gospel them. If it's

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<v Speaker 2>somebody who's already gone, well, then let that awareness build

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<v Speaker 2>a passion in you to rescue as many others as

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<v Speaker 2>you possibly can. That's part of my testimony. Talk about it.

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<v Speaker 2>My father, my biological father, is an alcoholic, gave me

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<v Speaker 2>up for adoption, abandon me all these things. When I

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<v Speaker 2>became a pastor, later, I started a recovery program in

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<v Speaker 2>our church specifically with the thought that I was never

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<v Speaker 2>able to help my father, but I'm going to help

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<v Speaker 2>other people's fathers, right right, And maybe it's the same

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<v Speaker 2>that right now, maybe some alleviation of this pressure that

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<v Speaker 2>you feel is use that as an impetus to say,

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<v Speaker 2>I'm going to try to lead as many people to

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<v Speaker 2>Jesus as possible, and God will bless you.

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<v Speaker 1>And then and one last thing. I know this is long,

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<v Speaker 1>but it's all Bible stuff, right, so it's definitely a

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<v Speaker 1>worthy segment to go along. I would also say this too,

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<v Speaker 1>So if you've been praying for a love who is

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<v Speaker 1>still alive, who has rejected Christ and they and they

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<v Speaker 1>have you know, been held bent no pun intended against

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<v Speaker 1>becoming a Christian right or believing, and so maybe there's

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<v Speaker 1>a discouragement that says, you know, my wayward relative or

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<v Speaker 1>loved one or something will just never accept Christ, but

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<v Speaker 1>they're still living. I would just say, don't ever stop praying,

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<v Speaker 1>don't ever stop giving up hope, and especially if you

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<v Speaker 1>have an opportunity, so you know, to share with them.

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<v Speaker 1>I just want to say this real quick. I have

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<v Speaker 1>a cousin who's listening right now. Donay, So usually say Hi,

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<v Speaker 1>you Nay. Yeah, So Denay is my mother's brother who

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<v Speaker 1>passed away from cancer. So her father and I and I.

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<v Speaker 1>The very first time that Dnay ever came by was

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<v Speaker 1>just this past year at my house. She was driving

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<v Speaker 1>right down I seventy five and I said, hey, you're

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<v Speaker 1>coming down I seventy five. I said, want you to

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<v Speaker 1>pull over and and come join us on I was like,

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<v Speaker 1>what is it Labor day or something more of it.

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<v Speaker 1>So anyway, so she came by and we're just sitting

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<v Speaker 1>having lunch or something in the back some room, and

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<v Speaker 1>just very casually, I said, uh, yeah, I prayed with

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<v Speaker 1>your father in the hospital, and you know, we went

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<v Speaker 1>through the Sinner's Prayer and he said that, yeah, absolutely,

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<v Speaker 1>I've prayed that before. He actually said I prayed that before,

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<v Speaker 1>but you know, just to make sure, you know, he says,

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<v Speaker 1>I'll pray it again. And I prayed the Soner's Prayer

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<v Speaker 1>with them, and I didn't realize that she didn't know that,

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<v Speaker 1>and so the entire time she was thinking her dad

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<v Speaker 1>was not a Christian because his whole life he had

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<v Speaker 1>never really talked about it and sort of rejected. And

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<v Speaker 1>so she started crying and she said I didn't know,

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<v Speaker 1>and I thought to myself, Wow, you know, don't ever

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<v Speaker 1>give up. Don't ever give up praying for somebody, because

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<v Speaker 1>even in the last moments of their lives, when they're

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<v Speaker 1>faced with perhaps eternity or death. Uh, you know, you

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<v Speaker 1>never know. You never know what aly spirit can do.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, you do for someone else what you hope someone

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<v Speaker 2>else will do for the people you love. Yeah right.

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<v Speaker 2>And and so if you have access, share the gospel.

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<v Speaker 2>If you don't have access, share the gospel with other

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<v Speaker 2>people and pray that God will We'll bridge the gap

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<v Speaker 2>right for you. And that's powerful. I love your heart

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<v Speaker 2>on that, Jony, and God will comfort you in those

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<v Speaker 2>those things. And I don't know how. So when you

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<v Speaker 2>ask the question, how is it possible? I don't know

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<v Speaker 2>how it is possible. But I do believe God's words

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<v Speaker 2>are true, and God can do what I can't do.

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<v Speaker 2>And God's ways are not my ways, and God's thoughts

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<v Speaker 2>are not my thoughts. But Heaven will be heaven for you,

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<v Speaker 2>yeah right.

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<v Speaker 1>You know, speaking of heaven, Jesus spoke a lot of

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<v Speaker 1>heaven and John.

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<v Speaker 2>Fourteen, I love this passage is one of my favorite passages.

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<v Speaker 2>John fourteen let's just read no great nodge.

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<v Speaker 1>No.

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<v Speaker 2>I like it though. That was a good, good transition. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>I was just gonna embrace it. So we just have

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<v Speaker 2>a few minutes. Let's just jump right into it, he says.

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<v Speaker 2>Don't let your hearts be t trust in God, and

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<v Speaker 2>trust also in me. There's more than enough room in

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<v Speaker 2>my father's home. If this were not so, what I

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<v Speaker 2>have told you that I am going to prepare a

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<v Speaker 2>place for you, and when everything's ready, I will come

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<v Speaker 2>and get you so that you will always be with

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<v Speaker 2>me where I am. And you know the way to

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<v Speaker 2>where I'm going. No, we don't know, Lord, Thomas said,

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<v Speaker 2>we have no idea where you're going. How can we

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<v Speaker 2>know the way? Jesus told him, I am the Way,

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<v Speaker 2>the Truth, and the life. No one can come to

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<v Speaker 2>the Father except through me. If you'd really known me,

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<v Speaker 2>you would know who my father is. From now on.

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<v Speaker 2>You do know him and have seen him. Do you

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<v Speaker 2>want me to keep going?

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<v Speaker 1>I think so?

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<v Speaker 2>Okay, Philip said, Lord, show us the Father and we'll

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<v Speaker 2>be satisfied. And Jesus replied, have I been with you

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<v Speaker 2>all this time, Philip, and yet you still don't know

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<v Speaker 2>who I am? Anyone who has seen me has seen

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<v Speaker 2>the Father. So why are you asking me to show

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<v Speaker 2>him to you. Don't you believe that I am in

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<v Speaker 2>the Father and the Father's in me. The words I

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<v Speaker 2>speak are not my own, but my Father's, who live

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<v Speaker 2>lives in me, does his work through me. Just believe

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<v Speaker 2>that I am in the Father and the Father's in me,

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<v Speaker 2>or at least believe because of the work you've seen me.

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<v Speaker 2>Do I tell you the truth. Anyone who believes in

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<v Speaker 2>me will do the same works I have done, and

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<v Speaker 2>even greater works, because I'm going to be with the Father.

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<v Speaker 2>You can ask for anything in my name, and I

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<v Speaker 2>will do it so that the Son can bring glory

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<v Speaker 2>to the Father. Yes, ask me for anything in my name,

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<v Speaker 2>and I will do it.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I love it. So at the very beginning verses

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<v Speaker 1>two and three of the highlighted verses, there is more

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<v Speaker 1>than enough room in my Father's home. If this were

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<v Speaker 1>not so, I would have told you would I have

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<v Speaker 1>told you that I'm going to prepare a place for

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<v Speaker 1>your question mark. So you know it's interesting because when

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<v Speaker 1>he says he's joined to prepare a place for you,

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<v Speaker 1>I always think of the custom that the Jewish people

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<v Speaker 1>lived under which was they would just expand the home. Yeah, right,

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<v Speaker 1>and so so another version would say, in my father's house,

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<v Speaker 1>there are many rooms, right, and there's a place for you.

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<v Speaker 1>And what that really means.

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<v Speaker 2>Is and audio adrenaline would say, it's a big house.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, a big room, right, a big big table, lots

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<v Speaker 1>and lots of.

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<v Speaker 2>Our youth pastors in the nineties.

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<v Speaker 1>Yes, so so yeah, So what they would do is

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<v Speaker 1>there would be an expansion of a family. There would

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<v Speaker 1>be a son, for instance, who would like get married off,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, and they would they would celebrate it, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>with a week for this wedding, and oftentimes at the

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<v Speaker 1>end of that week, they would move into the brand

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<v Speaker 1>new room that was added on to that father's house.

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<v Speaker 1>And so it's like, hey, don't worry, we're going to

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<v Speaker 1>expand our kingdom.

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<v Speaker 2>The Amish do that today. Yes, they keep adding on

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<v Speaker 2>to their homes and expanding and they'll build a new

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<v Speaker 2>wing for the new couple. And yes, that's the same idea.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, And so it's like and so that that's the

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<v Speaker 1>way that they would have heard it. So in my

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<v Speaker 1>father's house there are many rooms, and I'm going if

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<v Speaker 1>it were not so, what I've told you that I'm

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<v Speaker 1>going to prepare a place for you. And then, of course,

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<v Speaker 1>you know one of the most famous verses ever, right,

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<v Speaker 1>he says, I am the way the truth in the life.

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<v Speaker 1>No one comes to the Father except through me. So

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<v Speaker 1>he's talking about heaven. He's talking about, Uh, there's a

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<v Speaker 1>place for you, and he says, you already know where

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<v Speaker 1>I'm going at I love Thomas going no, we don't.

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<v Speaker 2>What are you talking what are you talking about? Clueless

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<v Speaker 2>all the time, He's like, you know what I'm talking about,

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<v Speaker 2>and they're like, we have no idea what you're doing.

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<v Speaker 1>It reminds me of The Chosen when when Jesus met

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<v Speaker 1>with the woman at the well and uh and then

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<v Speaker 1>she leaves and then they all walk up, and it's

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<v Speaker 1>so funny the way they depicted this because because they're

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<v Speaker 1>eating and and he goes, hey, you want some food,

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<v Speaker 1>and Jesus goes, I have food that you don't know

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<v Speaker 1>of from my father. And he says, what do you say,

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<v Speaker 1>I have? I have food that yeah, that you know

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<v Speaker 1>not of? That you know not of? And then and

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<v Speaker 1>then all of a sudden they all look at each

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<v Speaker 1>other and then in the Chosen One of the disciples goes

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<v Speaker 1>who got him food? Like like like he's like he

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<v Speaker 1>has no clue he has he's eating food. He's like,

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<v Speaker 1>you have food, where's your food? Like, where'd you get food?

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<v Speaker 1>Who brought him food? Right, He's like he has no

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<v Speaker 1>clue what they're talking about? Right, that's what Thomas says.

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<v Speaker 2>That would have been you because you're so literal.

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<v Speaker 1>Maybe so I would have been like, you're not a rock,

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<v Speaker 1>You're not a door? What are you talking about?

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<v Speaker 2>Got a shepherd? What you are? You not bread?

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<v Speaker 1>Are you saying that we have to go back into

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<v Speaker 1>our mother's womb?

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<v Speaker 2>Right?

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<v Speaker 1>Womus?

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<v Speaker 2>So you were nuts John chapter three? So yeah, it's

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<v Speaker 2>it's funny when you when you read it that way,

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<v Speaker 2>and I tried to read it that way when when

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<v Speaker 2>I got to it right, No, we don't know, Lord,

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<v Speaker 2>we have no idea what you're going.

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<v Speaker 1>What are you saying?

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<v Speaker 2>What are you? What are you doing? I love it

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<v Speaker 2>because if you ever feel slightly confused when you're reading

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<v Speaker 2>God's word or whatever, that guy's name is Saint Thomas,

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<v Speaker 2>that that's what that's what the church calls him. Right now,

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<v Speaker 2>you're Saint Chris, and I'm Saint Jeff and and that's

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<v Speaker 2>saint desire. Anybody who's a follower of Jesus. The Bible

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<v Speaker 2>calls us saints, but deeply religious people kind of elevate

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<v Speaker 2>the word saint to be like super Christians, right right,

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<v Speaker 2>And this this guy that we would elevate as being

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<v Speaker 2>a super Christian following Jesus, goes, I don't understand anything

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<v Speaker 2>you're saying, right right, And then Philip follows Saint Philip, Yes,

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<v Speaker 2>follow day behind and go, Lord, just show us the

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<v Speaker 2>Father will be satisfied. Like you keep saying words, but

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<v Speaker 2>I don't understand what you're saying.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, have you been with me this long, Philip, and

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<v Speaker 1>you still don't get it? Right, That's what he says

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<v Speaker 1>to Philip, and so yeah, he actually responds both to

422
00:20:17.799 --> 00:20:21.279
<v Speaker 1>Thomas and Philip by saying, come on, guys, I'm plainly

423
00:20:21.440 --> 00:20:23.839
<v Speaker 1>telling you where I am going, and I'm telling you

424
00:20:23.880 --> 00:20:26.640
<v Speaker 1>that I'm going to heaven and there's a place prepared

425
00:20:26.799 --> 00:20:30.519
<v Speaker 1>for you. Where are you going? Which way you're going?

426
00:20:30.680 --> 00:20:32.759
<v Speaker 1>I am the way, Jesus says, I am the truth,

427
00:20:32.799 --> 00:20:34.880
<v Speaker 1>I'm the life. No man gets to the Father. He's

428
00:20:34.880 --> 00:20:39.759
<v Speaker 1>referring to heaven again, but through me and I love

429
00:20:39.799 --> 00:20:43.079
<v Speaker 1>the promise of heaven, and I love the inclusion because

430
00:20:43.119 --> 00:20:45.920
<v Speaker 1>once again, you know, we have to understand that Jesus

431
00:20:45.960 --> 00:20:50.279
<v Speaker 1>is not being exclusive. He's being inclusive. And even though

432
00:20:50.319 --> 00:20:52.640
<v Speaker 1>it seems narrow to think that you only can get

433
00:20:52.680 --> 00:20:56.720
<v Speaker 1>to Heaven through Jesus, Jesus is saying, you know, everybody,

434
00:20:56.960 --> 00:21:00.440
<v Speaker 1>everybody is qualified, everybody is invited. Every but he gets

435
00:21:00.440 --> 00:21:03.319
<v Speaker 1>in the same way. It is God's will that none

436
00:21:03.319 --> 00:21:07.960
<v Speaker 1>should perish rights. God's will is that everybody should be saved.

437
00:21:08.079 --> 00:21:09.839
<v Speaker 1>As a matter of fact, the Bible says, today is

438
00:21:09.839 --> 00:21:12.759
<v Speaker 1>the day of salvation. Right then, to receive the truth

439
00:21:12.799 --> 00:21:15.799
<v Speaker 1>of God, to have a home in heaven is only

440
00:21:15.839 --> 00:21:20.480
<v Speaker 1>a prayer away. It is a heartfelt act of faith away.

441
00:21:20.920 --> 00:21:23.160
<v Speaker 1>No matter how far you feel, no matter how far

442
00:21:23.279 --> 00:21:26.240
<v Speaker 1>you are, no matter what you have done. The invitation

443
00:21:26.599 --> 00:21:30.920
<v Speaker 1>to go into the Father's House is for everyone, and

444
00:21:31.079 --> 00:21:33.079
<v Speaker 1>all you have to do, the Bible says, is, believe

445
00:21:33.200 --> 00:21:37.359
<v Speaker 1>in Jesus. Believe that Jesus Christ is the Messiah. He's

446
00:21:37.400 --> 00:21:39.319
<v Speaker 1>the one who paid for your sin. He's the one

447
00:21:39.319 --> 00:21:41.240
<v Speaker 1>that you trust in. He's the one that you put

448
00:21:41.240 --> 00:21:44.119
<v Speaker 1>your faith in, not yourself, but in his act that

449
00:21:44.160 --> 00:21:46.599
<v Speaker 1>he did on the Cross for you, believing in that,

450
00:21:46.920 --> 00:21:50.279
<v Speaker 1>making him lord of your life. Turning from your sin home,

451
00:21:50.319 --> 00:21:51.759
<v Speaker 1>there's a place prepared for you.

452
00:21:52.599 --> 00:21:55.200
<v Speaker 2>So do you think that Thomas was taking this literally?

453
00:21:55.319 --> 00:21:57.000
<v Speaker 2>Like where where is this?

454
00:21:57.319 --> 00:21:57.680
<v Speaker 1>Yes?

455
00:21:58.599 --> 00:22:00.759
<v Speaker 2>He's not hearing this in a spiritual statement.

456
00:22:00.799 --> 00:22:03.079
<v Speaker 1>I actually think most of the time when the disciples

457
00:22:03.200 --> 00:22:07.119
<v Speaker 1>act clueless, it's because Jesus talked in metaphors, and he

458
00:22:07.200 --> 00:22:09.680
<v Speaker 1>talked in symbolism, and and by the way.

459
00:22:09.599 --> 00:22:14.160
<v Speaker 2>And he's talking spiritual and they're thinking physical. Yes, yeah, yeah, yes, yes, Okay, Well,

460
00:22:14.240 --> 00:22:17.640
<v Speaker 2>let's see, we've we've we've been to Galilee, and we've

461
00:22:17.680 --> 00:22:20.599
<v Speaker 2>we've been to Magdala, and we've been to Besseeda and Bethesda.

462
00:22:21.039 --> 00:22:23.599
<v Speaker 2>We got over to the Capitalists, we got all the

463
00:22:23.640 --> 00:22:25.640
<v Speaker 2>way across the side of the lake over the Gathererines,

464
00:22:26.079 --> 00:22:28.240
<v Speaker 2>because you remember, these guys didn't travel far. We went

465
00:22:28.279 --> 00:22:30.039
<v Speaker 2>down to Jerusalem with Jesus a couple of times. I

466
00:22:30.359 --> 00:22:35.640
<v Speaker 2>know where Bethany is, Where where's your father live? Right? Right?

467
00:22:35.880 --> 00:22:39.960
<v Speaker 2>And and you know, if you're really the Messiah, doesn't

468
00:22:39.960 --> 00:22:42.519
<v Speaker 2>your father live in the temple. I don't remember seeing

469
00:22:42.839 --> 00:22:45.400
<v Speaker 2>mansions at the temple. What are you talking about?

470
00:22:45.519 --> 00:22:45.640
<v Speaker 1>Right?

471
00:22:45.680 --> 00:22:47.440
<v Speaker 2>I think that's what he's he's going through all the

472
00:22:47.480 --> 00:22:50.599
<v Speaker 2>list of places he's been and he knows about He's like, dude,

473
00:22:50.640 --> 00:22:51.839
<v Speaker 2>I have no idea what you're talking about.

474
00:22:51.839 --> 00:22:54.640
<v Speaker 1>The hilarity of this is he says Jesus literally says,

475
00:22:55.000 --> 00:22:58.160
<v Speaker 1>and you and you know. He's telling them, you know

476
00:22:58.000 --> 00:23:00.519
<v Speaker 1>you know the way where I am going, And the

477
00:23:00.599 --> 00:23:02.680
<v Speaker 1>very next sentence he goes, no, we don't know. Lord

478
00:23:02.839 --> 00:23:05.920
<v Speaker 1>Thomas said, we have no idea where you are going,

479
00:23:06.240 --> 00:23:08.240
<v Speaker 1>so how can we know the way? We don't even

480
00:23:08.279 --> 00:23:11.039
<v Speaker 1>know your destination. And you have to know the destination

481
00:23:11.079 --> 00:23:12.279
<v Speaker 1>in order to know the path to.

482
00:23:12.240 --> 00:23:14.720
<v Speaker 2>It, right, right, And this is a guy who's traveling

483
00:23:14.759 --> 00:23:17.079
<v Speaker 2>all the time, so the travel part of it is

484
00:23:17.119 --> 00:23:19.920
<v Speaker 2>important to him. Sure, right, are you? Are you a

485
00:23:20.000 --> 00:23:20.519
<v Speaker 2>map guy?

486
00:23:21.400 --> 00:23:24.519
<v Speaker 1>I think so a lot more than most people, but

487
00:23:24.559 --> 00:23:26.519
<v Speaker 1>not nearly a map guy as you are.

488
00:23:26.680 --> 00:23:29.359
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. I love maps, And if we're going to a

489
00:23:29.359 --> 00:23:31.599
<v Speaker 2>new place, if I'm going to a new country, I

490
00:23:31.640 --> 00:23:33.279
<v Speaker 2>always want to know what city am I going to.

491
00:23:34.039 --> 00:23:36.160
<v Speaker 2>I want to know what's the name of the hotel,

492
00:23:36.599 --> 00:23:38.960
<v Speaker 2>and then I look it up. I try to familiarize

493
00:23:38.960 --> 00:23:41.519
<v Speaker 2>myself with the main roads. I want to understand what's

494
00:23:41.559 --> 00:23:44.359
<v Speaker 2>in this outside outskirts of that area. I kind of

495
00:23:44.359 --> 00:23:46.119
<v Speaker 2>wrap my head around with the flow of the area.

496
00:23:46.359 --> 00:23:48.359
<v Speaker 2>Where are the rivers, where are the mountains? I just

497
00:23:48.680 --> 00:23:51.640
<v Speaker 2>I want to know those things, and I'm might travel that.

498
00:23:51.599 --> 00:23:52.839
<v Speaker 1>I'm twenty percent of who you are.

499
00:23:52.880 --> 00:23:55.400
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah, when I've been thinking that for a while.

500
00:23:55.519 --> 00:24:01.039
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I set myself up. That was as they set up.

501
00:24:01.079 --> 00:24:03.279
<v Speaker 2>It's an enlightenment, isn't it when you come to that,

502
00:24:03.640 --> 00:24:04.599
<v Speaker 2>when you finally come to.

503
00:24:04.559 --> 00:24:08.839
<v Speaker 1>The under I literally can't believe. Thank you, I set

504
00:24:08.880 --> 00:24:11.640
<v Speaker 1>myself up in the worst way. I'm twenty percent of

505
00:24:11.720 --> 00:24:16.079
<v Speaker 1>who you are. That's about right, Chris, in every way.

506
00:24:16.440 --> 00:24:18.640
<v Speaker 2>But I am. I am a kind of a map guy,

507
00:24:18.920 --> 00:24:21.279
<v Speaker 2>to the point that even when Byde and I got

508
00:24:21.279 --> 00:24:22.799
<v Speaker 2>married and we had no money, I don't want to

509
00:24:22.839 --> 00:24:24.480
<v Speaker 2>let you get away with it. If I came across

510
00:24:25.079 --> 00:24:26.799
<v Speaker 2>you know, one of those big map books, there was

511
00:24:26.839 --> 00:24:29.160
<v Speaker 2>a one. I wanted it. Well, if you're going to

512
00:24:29.160 --> 00:24:30.279
<v Speaker 2>a new state, I'd buy another.

513
00:24:30.319 --> 00:24:32.720
<v Speaker 1>I remember you being in Africa when we went to

514
00:24:32.759 --> 00:24:36.559
<v Speaker 1>Africa and we went together, and you were you and

515
00:24:36.640 --> 00:24:42.200
<v Speaker 1>Kevin Valentine primarily were teaching UH in that Methodist compound,

516
00:24:42.799 --> 00:24:45.440
<v Speaker 1>and I remember you saw a very primitive map on

517
00:24:45.480 --> 00:24:48.279
<v Speaker 1>the wall that somebody wrote in pen that were that

518
00:24:48.359 --> 00:24:51.640
<v Speaker 1>had like x's and barely had any writing at all whatsoever.

519
00:24:51.680 --> 00:24:54.160
<v Speaker 1>It just had like sticks of mountains and rivers and

520
00:24:54.160 --> 00:24:55.799
<v Speaker 1>everything else. And you walked up to it and you

521
00:24:55.799 --> 00:24:58.519
<v Speaker 1>were like, hey, by the way, and you went buppupup,

522
00:24:58.720 --> 00:25:00.960
<v Speaker 1>up up up, and you explained everything that map. And

523
00:25:01.000 --> 00:25:02.960
<v Speaker 1>then then you even refer back to it, and I

524
00:25:03.039 --> 00:25:05.160
<v Speaker 1>was like, how do you know that? And you said,

525
00:25:05.359 --> 00:25:06.960
<v Speaker 1>there's a map on the wall. I was like, you're

526
00:25:07.000 --> 00:25:09.720
<v Speaker 1>talking about that chicken scratch. I was like, what are

527
00:25:09.720 --> 00:25:11.880
<v Speaker 1>you talking about. You're talking about that map, And I

528
00:25:11.880 --> 00:25:13.480
<v Speaker 1>remember you refer to that map, and all of a

529
00:25:13.480 --> 00:25:15.720
<v Speaker 1>sudden you knew everything from that chicken scratch, and I

530
00:25:15.759 --> 00:25:17.960
<v Speaker 1>was like, wow, he's a map guy. I remember back then.

531
00:25:18.079 --> 00:25:20.480
<v Speaker 2>So Thomas is a doubter. We know that. Yep. Right,

532
00:25:20.519 --> 00:25:22.759
<v Speaker 2>he's a little bit more of a skeptic. I'm going

533
00:25:22.799 --> 00:25:26.279
<v Speaker 2>to guess his personality type. Also wanted to know where

534
00:25:26.319 --> 00:25:29.319
<v Speaker 2>are we going? How are we getting there? In that day,

535
00:25:29.480 --> 00:25:31.720
<v Speaker 2>you better choose the right road because there were some

536
00:25:31.799 --> 00:25:34.279
<v Speaker 2>really bad roads with really bad people going to rob you.

537
00:25:34.519 --> 00:25:36.839
<v Speaker 2>Oh yeah, right. You had to make good plans also

538
00:25:36.880 --> 00:25:39.599
<v Speaker 2>in those days. If you didn't plan, well, you weren't

539
00:25:39.640 --> 00:25:41.240
<v Speaker 2>going to make it to the next ind to be

540
00:25:41.279 --> 00:25:44.079
<v Speaker 2>able to sleep indoors tonight, you might skip a meal.

541
00:25:44.599 --> 00:25:47.039
<v Speaker 2>You got to make it to the next well, right, right,

542
00:25:47.039 --> 00:25:47.519
<v Speaker 2>So there's a.

543
00:25:47.440 --> 00:25:49.559
<v Speaker 1>Lot of so travel is very serious.

544
00:25:49.759 --> 00:25:52.039
<v Speaker 2>Yes, and so I think you've got Thomas's a touch

545
00:25:52.079 --> 00:25:55.640
<v Speaker 2>of a warrior, and now he's being very practical with

546
00:25:55.920 --> 00:25:59.440
<v Speaker 2>where are we going? I want to go? That sounds great. Oh,

547
00:25:59.480 --> 00:26:01.519
<v Speaker 2>we have no idea what you're talking about. So we

548
00:26:01.559 --> 00:26:04.440
<v Speaker 2>read this is so spiritual because Jesus is talking about eternity,

549
00:26:04.720 --> 00:26:09.279
<v Speaker 2>he's talking about Heaven. I'm the way, and he's kind

550
00:26:09.279 --> 00:26:11.319
<v Speaker 2>of concerned. And a lot of times we have a

551
00:26:11.359 --> 00:26:14.200
<v Speaker 2>hard time seeing the spiritual because we're so obsessed with

552
00:26:14.200 --> 00:26:17.000
<v Speaker 2>the physical. But I can tell you this, stick with it,

553
00:26:17.720 --> 00:26:19.880
<v Speaker 2>don't give up, because do you know who went the

554
00:26:19.920 --> 00:26:21.920
<v Speaker 2>farthest as the missionary for Jesus.

555
00:26:21.799 --> 00:26:23.799
<v Speaker 1>Thomas Thomas in India.

556
00:26:23.839 --> 00:26:26.599
<v Speaker 2>He went to southern India. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, through

557
00:26:26.759 --> 00:26:30.279
<v Speaker 2>hostile lands in the gospel almost ironic, Yes, that's what

558
00:26:30.279 --> 00:26:33.759
<v Speaker 2>I'm saying. So you know what God used Jesus finally

559
00:26:33.799 --> 00:26:35.640
<v Speaker 2>did convince him of the spiritual when he had an

560
00:26:35.680 --> 00:26:38.720
<v Speaker 2>encounter with the resurrected Lord, everything changed for Thomas. But

561
00:26:38.839 --> 00:26:42.759
<v Speaker 2>then this need to know where we're going was built

562
00:26:42.759 --> 00:26:45.519
<v Speaker 2>into him. And God will use those natural gifts and

563
00:26:45.599 --> 00:26:48.400
<v Speaker 2>those natural strengths that you have that may cause you

564
00:26:48.440 --> 00:26:50.599
<v Speaker 2>to doubt on the front end. He'll use those things

565
00:26:50.640 --> 00:26:52.240
<v Speaker 2>to take you the furthest. And that's what happened with

566
00:26:52.279 --> 00:26:54.799
<v Speaker 2>Thomas as he went the furthest with the gospel. God's

567
00:26:54.799 --> 00:26:56.799
<v Speaker 2>not disappointed with you with that. That's a good application

568
00:26:56.839 --> 00:26:59.079
<v Speaker 2>for Joni too. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly.

569
00:26:59.319 --> 00:27:03.400
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, that's great, that's great. Hey, hey, that's definitely our time.

570
00:27:03.559 --> 00:27:05.960
<v Speaker 1>So wow, what a great day, what a great topic,

571
00:27:06.079 --> 00:27:08.240
<v Speaker 1>and a great passage. So hopefully we'll see you tomorrow

572
00:27:08.319 --> 00:27:09.160
<v Speaker 1>on the Bible guys.

573
00:27:10.000 --> 00:27:15.440
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, m hm hmmm