1 00:00:03,201 --> 00:00:05,391 Welcome to another episode, empower Apps. 2 00:00:05,391 --> 00:00:07,251 I'm your host, Leo Dion. 3 00:00:07,851 --> 00:00:11,331 Today I am joined by Kaya Thomas Thank you for coming on the show. 4 00:00:12,370 --> 00:00:14,110 Of course, Leo, I'm glad to be here. 5 00:00:14,110 --> 00:00:15,430 Thanks for having me again. 6 00:00:16,881 --> 00:00:20,961 So what have you been up to since, five years ago. 7 00:00:20,961 --> 00:00:21,831 Pre COVID. 8 00:00:22,205 --> 00:00:22,495 Yeah. 9 00:00:23,061 --> 00:00:23,856 What have you been up to? 10 00:00:24,850 --> 00:00:25,240 Oh man. 11 00:00:25,240 --> 00:00:27,790 it's been a lot in the last five years. 12 00:00:27,790 --> 00:00:32,630 I, took a break from iOS development and went outside my comfort zone and 13 00:00:32,630 --> 00:00:38,180 went to grad school and, decided to do some more customer facing work and. 14 00:00:39,155 --> 00:00:40,865 Work on the people side of things. 15 00:00:40,895 --> 00:00:44,495 And, it's been a whirlwind and a great experience, I think to step 16 00:00:44,495 --> 00:00:46,505 outside of engineering a bit. 17 00:00:46,505 --> 00:00:49,755 And now I'm, trying to mix both worlds and make a new app. 18 00:00:50,255 --> 00:00:50,885 That's awesome. 19 00:00:50,885 --> 00:00:52,055 So I actually looked it up. 20 00:00:52,215 --> 00:00:55,545 Our episode was like right at the beginning of COVID, 21 00:00:55,605 --> 00:00:56,655 just to give you an idea. 22 00:00:56,655 --> 00:00:59,775 It was March the 2020, which is hilarious. 23 00:01:00,693 --> 00:01:01,923 The start of it all. 24 00:01:02,205 --> 00:01:02,835 right. 25 00:01:02,985 --> 00:01:05,625 That's when we thought Kobe Bryant passing away was gonna 26 00:01:05,625 --> 00:01:06,825 be the worst thing of that year. 27 00:01:06,825 --> 00:01:07,605 So Yeah. 28 00:01:08,415 --> 00:01:09,435 It got a lot worse. 29 00:01:09,465 --> 00:01:10,005 So. 30 00:01:10,650 --> 00:01:13,890 Let's talk about this brand new app, milk Diary. 31 00:01:13,890 --> 00:01:20,850 You wanna talk about why did you make this and what did you find, what do you, 32 00:01:20,850 --> 00:01:24,850 what did you find was the need that you feel like Milk Diary is gonna help with? 33 00:01:25,498 --> 00:01:31,108 Yeah, so I became a mom last year and you know, that's a huge life change. 34 00:01:31,168 --> 00:01:35,038 And of course, because I love apps. 35 00:01:35,098 --> 00:01:37,043 I wanted to use apps. 36 00:01:38,188 --> 00:01:42,568 As a part of my parenting experience to help manage and track things. 37 00:01:42,568 --> 00:01:46,288 And so one of the most intensive parts of parenting, a newborn and 38 00:01:46,288 --> 00:01:50,668 a baby is feeding them and the, 39 00:01:50,748 --> 00:01:56,248 Mental, logistical things you have to keep track of, and the physicality of it. 40 00:01:56,698 --> 00:02:00,688 But there's a lot to think about, like how often they need to feed. 41 00:02:00,948 --> 00:02:03,198 How much milk do you have for them? 42 00:02:03,228 --> 00:02:07,188 access to them to access, like how much you have in your fridge, how 43 00:02:07,188 --> 00:02:08,688 much do you have in your freezer? 44 00:02:09,108 --> 00:02:12,368 Just understanding the difference between you feeding them and 45 00:02:12,368 --> 00:02:13,808 you actually making the milk. 46 00:02:13,808 --> 00:02:17,288 So there's a lot of like logistical and administrative stuff. 47 00:02:17,388 --> 00:02:21,918 And obviously, you know, as developers we know that the, the great thing about 48 00:02:22,218 --> 00:02:26,598 technology is can help with some of like the logistical and administrative stuff. 49 00:02:26,598 --> 00:02:32,658 But I was getting frustrated 'cause a lot of the apps, we're not flexible enough and 50 00:02:32,658 --> 00:02:38,748 we're not, really thinking about this kind of full experience and all the different 51 00:02:38,748 --> 00:02:44,578 connections between how you have to make the milk track, the milk, store, the milk. 52 00:02:44,608 --> 00:02:46,553 Like it's, it's just like there's this whole holistic. 53 00:02:47,338 --> 00:02:49,048 Journey and process there. 54 00:02:49,048 --> 00:02:53,008 And I felt like all the apps that I were using might do one thing, 55 00:02:53,188 --> 00:02:56,338 but then when you need something else, you can't do it in that app. 56 00:02:56,338 --> 00:02:58,858 So you might have to use another app or track it another way. 57 00:02:59,278 --> 00:03:01,858 I started to get the itch again and I was like, okay, I think I need to 58 00:03:01,858 --> 00:03:07,368 create an app because, I felt like there needs to be something better. 59 00:03:07,518 --> 00:03:13,338 And I think that, especially as a mom, I realized that a lot of the apps out 60 00:03:13,338 --> 00:03:17,098 there are not actually made by folks who are going through this experience, right. 61 00:03:17,098 --> 00:03:17,998 And living through it. 62 00:03:18,328 --> 00:03:19,618 And so having that. 63 00:03:19,793 --> 00:03:25,113 Experience and being able to also call upon, moms, my friends and just moms in 64 00:03:25,113 --> 00:03:29,853 the community and get their experience as well and be able to really make something 65 00:03:29,853 --> 00:03:34,383 that's catered to the experience of new parents and understand what they 66 00:03:34,383 --> 00:03:39,423 would need and how to make an app that is, user friendly, easy to use, and 67 00:03:39,423 --> 00:03:42,098 actually like saving time and energy. 68 00:03:42,598 --> 00:03:44,668 Well, what does your daughter think of the app? 69 00:03:45,168 --> 00:03:50,158 I mean, honestly, She is, I think enamored with, technology in general just because 70 00:03:50,458 --> 00:03:54,928 the idea of just touching the screen and having something happen, that reaction. 71 00:03:55,108 --> 00:03:59,438 So I don't think she really understands like, what an app is per se, but 72 00:03:59,588 --> 00:04:01,193 she loves pressing things and, 73 00:04:02,058 --> 00:04:02,918 Ima, yes, I 74 00:04:02,956 --> 00:04:04,876 and seeing it react on the screen. 75 00:04:05,338 --> 00:04:05,908 Yes. 76 00:04:05,938 --> 00:04:06,298 Yeah. 77 00:04:06,748 --> 00:04:09,908 so I asked Mrs. Dion before recording, what did she do? 78 00:04:10,428 --> 00:04:11,958 And she just used the notes app. 79 00:04:12,018 --> 00:04:14,538 So, which I'm not surprised. 80 00:04:14,568 --> 00:04:17,898 Or a spreadsheet 'cause she's loves spreadsheets. 81 00:04:18,358 --> 00:04:19,858 this looks really awesome. 82 00:04:19,908 --> 00:04:20,018 what. 83 00:04:20,683 --> 00:04:25,123 One of the things that you talked about here was that really piqued my interest 84 00:04:25,123 --> 00:04:27,433 was the use of foundation models. 85 00:04:27,453 --> 00:04:28,083 Yeah. 86 00:04:28,515 --> 00:04:32,985 what were you thinking as far as how that would fit in with your app? 87 00:04:33,393 --> 00:04:33,783 Yeah. 88 00:04:33,963 --> 00:04:42,353 So before, dub I was really struggling with the idea of like 89 00:04:42,353 --> 00:04:44,333 smart intelligence features, right? 90 00:04:44,393 --> 00:04:47,523 Because I figured that integrating some type of. 91 00:04:48,483 --> 00:04:53,823 Intelligence would be great for the app because it could help with that more 92 00:04:53,823 --> 00:04:57,663 like efficiency and kind of logistical thing that I was talking about. 93 00:04:57,993 --> 00:05:02,593 But I was really hesitant to integrate any of the cloud models, like any 94 00:05:02,593 --> 00:05:04,213 of the LLMs that are existing. 95 00:05:04,213 --> 00:05:06,763 Open, open AI and anthropic, et cetera. 96 00:05:07,063 --> 00:05:12,853 Because this data's really sensitive, like I don't think a lot of parents want 97 00:05:12,853 --> 00:05:17,043 this type of data, being sent right over the internet or being sent somewhere. 98 00:05:17,043 --> 00:05:20,013 And so I was really hesitant to integrate that. 99 00:05:20,013 --> 00:05:24,213 And so when they announced foundation models, I was like, yes, this 100 00:05:24,213 --> 00:05:29,348 is my opportunity to be able to, incorporate intelligent features 101 00:05:29,768 --> 00:05:32,703 in a really private way on device. 102 00:05:32,703 --> 00:05:34,028 So it was just a huge win. 103 00:05:34,958 --> 00:05:38,048 I think the ways in which I'm integrating it is a couple ways. 104 00:05:38,048 --> 00:05:45,698 So one is being able to log sessions via text or voice, right? 105 00:05:45,698 --> 00:05:50,318 So all of the apps where you track things around, you have to manually enter right? 106 00:05:50,583 --> 00:05:53,913 Oh, here's how much, and you have to go to the different text inputs 107 00:05:53,913 --> 00:05:55,723 and, select the different things. 108 00:05:56,043 --> 00:05:58,413 And a lot of times, as a new parent, you're tired. 109 00:05:58,468 --> 00:06:00,248 you don't wanna be like, doing a 110 00:06:00,250 --> 00:06:02,770 have an extra hand 'cause you're carrying someone. 111 00:06:02,888 --> 00:06:03,908 Exactly. 112 00:06:03,908 --> 00:06:07,178 So being able to just either, you know, input text, or even 113 00:06:07,178 --> 00:06:10,928 speak right into the app and say, okay, like I pumped five ounces. 114 00:06:11,423 --> 00:06:12,683 And then just have it save. 115 00:06:13,043 --> 00:06:14,903 So just being able to save that time. 116 00:06:14,903 --> 00:06:18,023 So that's where the foundation models really come in to be able to have 117 00:06:18,023 --> 00:06:22,153 those prompts that allow them to create the data, that they want to track. 118 00:06:22,183 --> 00:06:27,793 And I think the difference I found with the foundation models really 119 00:06:27,793 --> 00:06:29,863 helped me from a developer side. 120 00:06:30,073 --> 00:06:31,393 I was really overwhelmed. 121 00:06:31,828 --> 00:06:35,008 When I started to think about the cloud models and like how I would 122 00:06:35,248 --> 00:06:39,688 integrate them in a way that would reduce hallucinations, get actual data 123 00:06:39,688 --> 00:06:42,888 that, was focused right and accurate. 124 00:06:43,218 --> 00:06:49,398 So the fact that the foundation models have guided generation is just so good. 125 00:06:49,398 --> 00:06:50,808 I mean, I think that. 126 00:06:51,408 --> 00:06:56,568 You have to work on tweaking your data models to make sure that they work. 127 00:06:56,568 --> 00:07:00,348 So you still reduce hallucinations 'cause that's just a thing with LLMs. 128 00:07:00,798 --> 00:07:02,298 But it's much better. 129 00:07:02,298 --> 00:07:06,978 And I think as a developer, it allows me to have a bit more reliability 130 00:07:07,008 --> 00:07:11,748 and consistency on what I'm getting from the prompts, the user prompts. 131 00:07:12,915 --> 00:07:13,875 So we're using, 132 00:07:13,985 --> 00:07:15,485 I mute Gen General. 133 00:07:15,985 --> 00:07:16,645 General 134 00:07:16,716 --> 00:07:19,056 General, is it a macro or a protocol? 135 00:07:19,986 --> 00:07:24,206 Okay, so you're using that and then that would be the output that you're 136 00:07:24,206 --> 00:07:28,226 looking for when somebody says something and that way it's actionable. 137 00:07:28,226 --> 00:07:28,796 Correct. 138 00:07:29,010 --> 00:07:33,270 Yeah, so how I'm doing it and it took a while for me to figure out 139 00:07:33,270 --> 00:07:38,360 the best way to think about the data schema for the general structs. 140 00:07:38,720 --> 00:07:43,850 At first I was thinking I would just have a session struct and, you know, it would 141 00:07:43,880 --> 00:07:48,560 have all the data, whether it was a pump session, nursing, a bottle feed, right? 142 00:07:48,560 --> 00:07:52,160 And the foundation model should be able to detect, based off what 143 00:07:52,160 --> 00:07:53,061 they're saying, what type of. 144 00:07:53,550 --> 00:07:56,100 Feed it is and be able to fill in the data. 145 00:07:56,280 --> 00:07:59,580 But I realized actually, at least in my experience with working with 146 00:07:59,580 --> 00:08:04,110 the foundation model so far, is it's actually better to have smaller, 147 00:08:04,200 --> 00:08:07,560 structs and have them be very specific. 148 00:08:08,040 --> 00:08:11,380 So breaking them out, because I realized that when you have 149 00:08:11,380 --> 00:08:12,850 just like a kind of catchall. 150 00:08:13,185 --> 00:08:17,735 data model for the foundations, the hallucinations increase and it's a bit 151 00:08:17,735 --> 00:08:22,255 harder for it to figure out, exactly which variables it should fill in 152 00:08:22,255 --> 00:08:24,325 based off of the context of the prompt. 153 00:08:25,056 --> 00:08:28,656 So you're using like enums and stuff to make it as specific as possible? 154 00:08:28,656 --> 00:08:28,956 Yeah. 155 00:08:28,996 --> 00:08:32,566 Rather than just like a string where you can get something crazy. 156 00:08:33,006 --> 00:08:35,726 so there's both the feeding and the pumping, right? 157 00:08:35,726 --> 00:08:37,496 Are there things you're tracking in the app 158 00:08:37,860 --> 00:08:41,920 Yeah, so it's bottle feeding, nursing, and pumping. 159 00:08:42,831 --> 00:08:43,281 Okay. 160 00:08:43,641 --> 00:08:45,741 And then you also mentioned formula. 161 00:08:45,791 --> 00:08:47,111 how does that fit in? 162 00:08:47,511 --> 00:08:48,831 what's the use case for that? 163 00:08:49,060 --> 00:08:49,450 Yep. 164 00:08:49,640 --> 00:08:51,140 A lot of parents combo feed, right? 165 00:08:51,140 --> 00:08:55,230 So they use breast milk and formula in the app you'll have the ability 166 00:08:55,230 --> 00:08:57,480 to track formula or breast milk. 167 00:08:57,480 --> 00:09:00,060 if you're doing bottle feeds with formula, you'll be able to track 168 00:09:00,060 --> 00:09:01,320 what type of formula you use. 169 00:09:01,560 --> 00:09:05,490 I know a lot of parents also try different types of formula, you can even keep track 170 00:09:05,490 --> 00:09:07,510 of notes to see if there was reactions or 171 00:09:07,666 --> 00:09:07,681 Got it. 172 00:09:08,320 --> 00:09:09,160 things like that. 173 00:09:09,215 --> 00:09:11,885 youngest daughter, so I don't know if you know my personal story, 174 00:09:11,885 --> 00:09:15,415 but our four oldest are, adopted. 175 00:09:15,475 --> 00:09:21,965 at least the youngest, I think the youngest girl who's now gonna be 11, she 176 00:09:21,965 --> 00:09:27,285 moved in with us when she was a newborn and we had a lot of formula I remember 177 00:09:27,285 --> 00:09:31,035 doing EXCO development and having her on my lap while I'm feeding her at 2:00 AM 178 00:09:31,135 --> 00:09:31,635 Oh wow. 179 00:09:31,791 --> 00:09:33,291 I totally remember that. 180 00:09:33,411 --> 00:09:33,891 But. 181 00:09:34,596 --> 00:09:35,286 Formula. 182 00:09:35,316 --> 00:09:37,116 doesn't last as long, right? 183 00:09:37,116 --> 00:09:38,706 As breast milk, as far as I'm concerned. 184 00:09:38,706 --> 00:09:39,066 Yeah. 185 00:09:39,456 --> 00:09:42,296 So, yeah, I could totally see how that would fit in. 186 00:09:42,536 --> 00:09:47,256 And I also, like one thing you mentioned here, is, twins or multiples, right? 187 00:09:47,306 --> 00:09:49,076 like having to track multiple children. 188 00:09:49,136 --> 00:09:51,416 That's a really important niche 189 00:09:51,720 --> 00:09:52,650 Yes. 190 00:09:52,980 --> 00:09:56,400 And I have, a close friend who has twins and I realized in testing out. 191 00:09:57,195 --> 00:10:01,755 A lot of the apps is all of them make you switch between profiles 192 00:10:01,935 --> 00:10:03,165 in order to track anything. 193 00:10:03,375 --> 00:10:07,625 So you have to create, a profile for each kid and then if you wanna track 194 00:10:07,625 --> 00:10:13,635 anything, you have to switch, like between profiles, to track a feed or. 195 00:10:13,945 --> 00:10:14,545 Yes. 196 00:10:14,688 --> 00:10:18,048 when I thought about like, okay, how am I gonna model this, app? 197 00:10:18,048 --> 00:10:21,228 I was like, okay, from the start, I wanna make it super easy if you 198 00:10:21,228 --> 00:10:26,038 have multiples and you don't have to switch profiles or do anything, extra. 199 00:10:26,428 --> 00:10:30,388 If you want to just track something and you just select which kid it's for, right? 200 00:10:31,530 --> 00:10:34,950 So this is totally iOS, 26, correct. 201 00:10:35,000 --> 00:10:35,180 it 202 00:10:35,230 --> 00:10:36,370 iPhone only. 203 00:10:36,928 --> 00:10:37,738 iPhone only. 204 00:10:37,768 --> 00:10:38,878 iPhone only to start. 205 00:10:38,878 --> 00:10:43,118 I think that, if I find that there's interest in iPad support or Mac 206 00:10:43,118 --> 00:10:44,658 support, I would think about it. 207 00:10:44,658 --> 00:10:46,128 But yeah, iPhone only 208 00:10:46,285 --> 00:10:47,035 watch support. 209 00:10:47,035 --> 00:10:51,205 Oh yeah, watch support is definitely something I want to have because 210 00:10:51,265 --> 00:10:53,905 that is something I used a lot actually when I was feeding. 211 00:10:53,955 --> 00:10:55,275 Not vision os I don't see 212 00:10:55,325 --> 00:10:55,505 yeah, 213 00:10:55,756 --> 00:10:56,326 really useful. 214 00:10:56,816 --> 00:10:59,216 I wanna ask this question, but did you do like a comparative 215 00:10:59,216 --> 00:11:00,836 analysis before you got started? 216 00:11:01,316 --> 00:11:03,146 Just to see what was currently out there? 217 00:11:03,896 --> 00:11:06,326 And what was the marketing angle for those? 218 00:11:06,326 --> 00:11:08,036 How do they monetize? 219 00:11:08,385 --> 00:11:08,675 Yeah. 220 00:11:09,056 --> 00:11:11,426 Are they basically crappy React apps? 221 00:11:11,426 --> 00:11:13,051 what's the environment out there? 222 00:11:13,390 --> 00:11:15,125 Yeah, it's interesting. 223 00:11:15,125 --> 00:11:19,680 I think so I definitely did a comparative analysis and there are, like, to be 224 00:11:19,680 --> 00:11:25,350 frank, a lot of apps out there that, track baby, newborn tracking and, 225 00:11:25,430 --> 00:11:27,110 feed tracking and stuff like that. 226 00:11:27,110 --> 00:11:32,040 But I think, there's definitely, you have the cross platform, popular 227 00:11:32,040 --> 00:11:37,110 cross platform apps that are, in my opinion, I, despise using, because, 228 00:11:37,300 --> 00:11:41,440 I like native apps and I find that they were a poor user experience. 229 00:11:41,800 --> 00:11:43,180 I think what I found is. 230 00:11:43,685 --> 00:11:47,165 You have a lot of apps that are trying to do everything, so they're 231 00:11:47,165 --> 00:11:48,965 like, oh, you can track everything. 232 00:11:49,025 --> 00:11:50,975 Right, but 233 00:11:51,041 --> 00:11:52,451 the thing I was thinking, sorry. 234 00:11:52,451 --> 00:11:55,651 It was just like, oh, Gerber has a app and it's you know, 235 00:11:55,711 --> 00:11:57,001 it's their app for everything. 236 00:11:57,001 --> 00:12:00,541 And then by the way, we have this little milk diary thing over here in the corner. 237 00:12:00,781 --> 00:12:02,971 That's kind of what I was thinking was gonna end up happening. 238 00:12:03,215 --> 00:12:04,205 Yeah, exactly. 239 00:12:04,205 --> 00:12:07,615 And then it is the user experience is super clunky and like, it's 240 00:12:07,615 --> 00:12:12,255 hard to use and know how you even track things and where you do it. 241 00:12:12,255 --> 00:12:14,065 I just found it's very overwhelming. 242 00:12:14,425 --> 00:12:17,635 A lot of these apps because they're trying to do too many things. 243 00:12:17,635 --> 00:12:21,145 And so for me, that's one of the decisions I made is I really wanted to 244 00:12:21,145 --> 00:12:24,415 focus on the full feeding experience and be able to support everything 245 00:12:24,415 --> 00:12:27,985 in that space and not try to be this catchall that's doing everything. 246 00:12:27,985 --> 00:12:31,405 Because I think that oftentimes what makes apps great is when 247 00:12:31,405 --> 00:12:33,745 there is a specific focus, right? 248 00:12:33,785 --> 00:12:37,135 And you're getting really, the value out of it because it. 249 00:12:37,890 --> 00:12:41,275 Can help you solve problems for a specific need. 250 00:12:41,735 --> 00:12:44,515 a lot of the apps out there, there's some free apps out there that have a 251 00:12:44,515 --> 00:12:47,125 bunch of ads, they monetize via ads. 252 00:12:47,315 --> 00:12:51,230 then there's some that are trying to lean into, I think a big area that 253 00:12:51,230 --> 00:12:55,130 some of the larger apps are trying to lean into is sleep tracking and sleep 254 00:12:55,130 --> 00:12:57,910 predictions Personally I don't think that. 255 00:12:58,480 --> 00:13:03,040 Having experienced the ups and downs of a newborn and infant sleep, I 256 00:13:03,040 --> 00:13:05,340 don't think an app can really predict, 257 00:13:05,440 --> 00:13:07,060 Or even like, what's the point in tracking? 258 00:13:07,060 --> 00:13:10,970 It's not like you can be like, all right, sweetie, but you can't do the getting up 259 00:13:10,970 --> 00:13:12,890 at 2:00 AM This is what my watch said. 260 00:13:12,930 --> 00:13:13,420 exactly. 261 00:13:13,836 --> 00:13:15,366 I don't, there's nothing actionable. 262 00:13:15,720 --> 00:13:16,320 Exactly. 263 00:13:16,320 --> 00:13:19,050 So like, I mean, there's a bunch that are leaning into that. 264 00:13:19,050 --> 00:13:21,990 And then like you said, a lot of the formula companies have apps 265 00:13:21,990 --> 00:13:25,890 and stuff that I think are, a means to sell their formula and stuff. 266 00:13:25,890 --> 00:13:31,450 And so, there are a couple of, indie apps that are nice, but I think because. 267 00:13:32,095 --> 00:13:38,665 They are not, like I said, they're very specific and they don't support. 268 00:13:38,665 --> 00:13:41,875 So they might support one thing really well, but they're not thinking about the 269 00:13:41,875 --> 00:13:43,675 full journey of the feeding experience. 270 00:13:43,675 --> 00:13:46,955 And so it's not flexible enough, if something changed about your journey. 271 00:13:46,955 --> 00:13:51,305 So, that's where I feel like I can fill that space and that gap, to be able to 272 00:13:51,305 --> 00:13:54,635 provide something that's comprehensive and flexible enough to use throughout 273 00:13:54,635 --> 00:13:57,345 that entire first year from newborn to. 274 00:13:57,600 --> 00:13:58,560 early toddler days, 275 00:13:59,391 --> 00:14:03,201 So when you first developed the app, were you developing it for iOS? 276 00:14:03,231 --> 00:14:03,951 18. 277 00:14:04,400 --> 00:14:04,910 I was, 278 00:14:05,631 --> 00:14:06,081 Okay. 279 00:14:06,141 --> 00:14:07,251 So. 280 00:14:09,016 --> 00:14:12,016 I wanna really take advantage of everything new, including 281 00:14:12,526 --> 00:14:17,626 foundation models, but also you got liquid glass to deal with. 282 00:14:17,686 --> 00:14:18,976 How has that gone? 283 00:14:19,476 --> 00:14:19,776 It, 284 00:14:20,968 --> 00:14:20,969 oh 285 00:14:21,126 --> 00:14:26,736 li liquid glass, it's a moving target because every beta, right, like there's 286 00:14:26,736 --> 00:14:28,176 something a little bit different. 287 00:14:28,596 --> 00:14:35,436 I think the most difficult part for me has been understanding like the best way 288 00:14:35,436 --> 00:14:38,106 to embrace it and where to embrace it. 289 00:14:38,206 --> 00:14:39,196 Do you even have a choice? 290 00:14:39,246 --> 00:14:42,996 for something like tab bars, you don't have a choice, but when you think about 291 00:14:42,996 --> 00:14:49,876 like buttons and toolbar items and things, how you integrate it, you have a choice in 292 00:14:49,876 --> 00:14:52,136 terms of how it looks and how far you go. 293 00:14:52,136 --> 00:14:56,526 Especially with custom UI elements, How much you integrate, liquid glass. 294 00:14:56,526 --> 00:15:00,156 So I think that's been the hard part of figuring out it's not necessary to have 295 00:15:00,156 --> 00:15:02,226 it for every button And every interaction. 296 00:15:02,276 --> 00:15:06,816 where do you prioritize having it and what is the prioritization for liquid glass? 297 00:15:06,816 --> 00:15:10,266 Like is it just for primary actions? 298 00:15:10,266 --> 00:15:12,546 It's, so, I think that's what I've been trying to figure out. 299 00:15:12,546 --> 00:15:17,836 I think the thing that I really don't like, about it is, it seems as if 300 00:15:18,106 --> 00:15:22,906 when I look at like the Apple apps on, in the beta, right, like notes and 301 00:15:22,906 --> 00:15:28,936 reminders and mail, et cetera, it seems that there's a lot of hiding actions 302 00:15:28,936 --> 00:15:34,726 behind menus and, and things that where before at least my understanding 303 00:15:34,756 --> 00:15:36,256 of like the design guidelines. 304 00:15:37,201 --> 00:15:41,551 What's recommended is you wanna make it easier for folks to know where 305 00:15:41,551 --> 00:15:43,171 to go and what actions to take. 306 00:15:43,501 --> 00:15:43,981 Right. 307 00:15:44,191 --> 00:15:47,221 And now it seems like kind of we're backtracking and it's making 308 00:15:47,221 --> 00:15:51,931 harder to discover actions and what you need to do in an app. 309 00:15:51,931 --> 00:15:56,131 And so that's what I've been trying to figure out as well is like for one example 310 00:15:56,131 --> 00:15:59,431 is the tab bar minimization, right? 311 00:15:59,431 --> 00:16:02,421 Like, that seems like something that they're recommending, for a app to 312 00:16:02,421 --> 00:16:04,311 do is like minimize the tab bar. 313 00:16:04,791 --> 00:16:08,831 But I remember like in the guidelines around tab bars is 314 00:16:08,831 --> 00:16:12,731 like they explicitly said tab bar should always be present, right? 315 00:16:12,781 --> 00:16:15,961 have they updated the guidelines at all since June? 316 00:16:16,800 --> 00:16:21,100 yes, they have updated HIG the human interface guidelines. 317 00:16:21,580 --> 00:16:25,510 they have updated them, but when you watch some of the old dub videos and 318 00:16:25,510 --> 00:16:27,210 now like you think about the new things. 319 00:16:27,240 --> 00:16:30,840 I'm not understanding some of the decisions that were made or like why some 320 00:16:30,840 --> 00:16:33,210 of these design changes have been made. 321 00:16:33,510 --> 00:16:38,270 And so, yeah, I decided, I'm not going to do the minimize tab bar thing. 322 00:16:38,300 --> 00:16:41,040 it doesn't seem like, a good user experience. 323 00:16:41,090 --> 00:16:43,220 I think that's been the hardest thing is just like, it seems 324 00:16:43,220 --> 00:16:44,240 like it's a movie target. 325 00:16:44,270 --> 00:16:47,870 'cause things are changing so much in the betas and it's not always 326 00:16:47,870 --> 00:16:52,470 clear the best way to, integrate for the best user experience 327 00:16:52,511 --> 00:16:52,861 Right. 328 00:16:52,876 --> 00:16:55,186 what's the frosted opacity in this beta? 329 00:16:55,236 --> 00:16:55,686 except 330 00:16:55,893 --> 00:17:00,793 What other features were you interested in taking advantage of, with iOS 26. 331 00:17:01,426 --> 00:17:06,186 The other two, that have been, that I've really been excited about 332 00:17:06,186 --> 00:17:08,616 is alarm kit and speech analyzer. 333 00:17:09,168 --> 00:17:09,948 Yes. 334 00:17:10,038 --> 00:17:10,458 Yeah. 335 00:17:10,518 --> 00:17:13,728 I was like, so when I saw that in the notes alarm kit, I was like, 336 00:17:13,788 --> 00:17:16,098 finally, okay, now I understand. 337 00:17:16,398 --> 00:17:21,408 Like for me, whenever I wanted to do something like that, I would just post 338 00:17:21,408 --> 00:17:23,778 notifications and go like that, right? 339 00:17:23,998 --> 00:17:27,178 okay, now I understand why we need alarm kit as opposed 340 00:17:27,178 --> 00:17:28,618 to just using notifications. 341 00:17:29,048 --> 00:17:32,558 I'll let you explain why you're using Alarm Kit and what you like about it. 342 00:17:33,066 --> 00:17:37,736 I think obviously our last conversation was, a lot about notifications, right? 343 00:17:37,736 --> 00:17:37,856 So 344 00:17:37,988 --> 00:17:38,648 That's true. 345 00:17:38,748 --> 00:17:41,778 yeah, so obviously I'm an advocate for notifications, but I think for 346 00:17:41,778 --> 00:17:44,358 some apps, notifications are overkill. 347 00:17:44,698 --> 00:17:50,078 And I think notifications are not necessarily, the best thing for 348 00:17:50,078 --> 00:17:54,428 every app because notifications are easily dismissed and forgotten. 349 00:17:54,728 --> 00:17:55,178 Right? 350 00:17:55,595 --> 00:18:00,335 yeah, so I am very disappointed in the use of notifications nowadays 351 00:18:00,365 --> 00:18:05,015 'cause it's so confusing how it's been misused and abused by like marketing. 352 00:18:05,525 --> 00:18:09,145 Well, at the same time it's some things, it's I want be notified because of this. 353 00:18:09,145 --> 00:18:12,415 I don't need to be notified because you have a new weekly ad for whatever. 354 00:18:12,835 --> 00:18:14,725 And that's been really abused. 355 00:18:14,725 --> 00:18:15,445 Unfortunately. 356 00:18:15,445 --> 00:18:21,075 That's made it really hard to not use it as a user using notifications, because 357 00:18:21,075 --> 00:18:25,575 like sometimes I miss stuff now because there's so many notifications and it's 358 00:18:25,625 --> 00:18:29,405 yeah, I just went through like a audit of all my apps to turn off notifications. 359 00:18:29,435 --> 00:18:33,245 'cause I was getting so frustrated with missing things, so 360 00:18:33,557 --> 00:18:34,607 modes don't help. 361 00:18:34,667 --> 00:18:35,297 Unfortunately. 362 00:18:35,337 --> 00:18:38,127 I wish I understood those better, but yeah. 363 00:18:38,415 --> 00:18:38,775 Yeah. 364 00:18:38,775 --> 00:18:42,495 So I feel like Alarm Kit is gonna be great for developers because 365 00:18:42,495 --> 00:18:45,345 for apps where you want to. 366 00:18:45,765 --> 00:18:50,685 The user to take an immediate action, or they want to be like notified in a way 367 00:18:50,685 --> 00:18:54,075 where it's okay, this is like an immediate thing you need to take action on. 368 00:18:54,305 --> 00:18:55,685 It's a great way to do that. 369 00:18:55,685 --> 00:18:59,105 And it's much simpler to implement the notifications, I think. 370 00:18:59,450 --> 00:19:02,970 Like I said, notifications, you know, it can be a lot to, to implement. 371 00:19:02,970 --> 00:19:06,270 From the developer's standpoint, it is a lot to think about and manage when you 372 00:19:06,480 --> 00:19:09,560 think about the notification center and everything and whether you're doing server 373 00:19:09,560 --> 00:19:13,010 side notifications, like there, there's all these things to think about, but 374 00:19:13,010 --> 00:19:15,410 Alarm kit so far is fairly simple, right? 375 00:19:15,410 --> 00:19:17,780 It comes with its own manager scheduling. 376 00:19:18,815 --> 00:19:20,315 Canceling, updating Notifica. 377 00:19:20,365 --> 00:19:22,495 The alarms are super simple. 378 00:19:22,735 --> 00:19:28,195 And so I think it's gonna be a great way for apps that don't need notifications, 379 00:19:28,555 --> 00:19:32,715 that just want the user to take an immediate action in their app. 380 00:19:32,815 --> 00:19:34,285 A way to do that really simply. 381 00:19:34,785 --> 00:19:37,755 I do have a question before we get to speech analyzer. 382 00:19:38,215 --> 00:19:41,415 what are you using to store stuff locally and do you have 383 00:19:41,415 --> 00:19:42,765 a server side component to it? 384 00:19:43,308 --> 00:19:45,588 Yeah, so I don't have a service side component. 385 00:19:45,808 --> 00:19:50,038 I am using a sharing GRDB for 386 00:19:50,140 --> 00:19:55,930 I laugh because, I'll ask the question, why didn't you not go with swift data? 387 00:19:56,430 --> 00:19:58,411 So I actually started out with swift data. 388 00:19:59,202 --> 00:20:01,692 yeah, I think I saw a tweet that you said that, 389 00:20:01,792 --> 00:20:07,812 so I started out with swift data, and it just was, it's not robust enough. 390 00:20:07,882 --> 00:20:12,982 The predicate handling, is still lacking in terms of more like complex predicates. 391 00:20:13,312 --> 00:20:17,982 The cloud kit support only supports, private, cloud kit, 392 00:20:18,072 --> 00:20:20,112 databases doesn't support shared. 393 00:20:20,472 --> 00:20:24,842 And so for me, having the ability for parents to be able to share 394 00:20:24,842 --> 00:20:27,002 data is like essential, right? 395 00:20:27,052 --> 00:20:30,442 that's where I was going with the server side question is, if Dad is gonna feed the 396 00:20:30,442 --> 00:20:35,212 baby with formula or mom's pumped milk, like it'd be nice to have that component. 397 00:20:35,320 --> 00:20:35,980 Exactly. 398 00:20:35,980 --> 00:20:39,740 So to be able to support cloud kit was essential. 399 00:20:39,740 --> 00:20:41,840 I also felt like swift data. 400 00:20:41,940 --> 00:20:47,130 I really like, you know, using structs and, and so having, being forced to have 401 00:20:47,130 --> 00:20:51,930 my models all be classes, yeah, so I, I, I think that there's just like a some 402 00:20:51,930 --> 00:20:56,480 limitations that with swift data where I started out with it and I was a bit 403 00:20:56,480 --> 00:21:00,140 excited, but then as I started to, to start doing things that were a little bit 404 00:21:00,140 --> 00:21:05,270 more complex, I just ran into a lot of the limitations and so decided to move on 405 00:21:05,320 --> 00:21:08,710 point free code is doing a lot of great work with, their libraries, 406 00:21:08,710 --> 00:21:12,490 their open source libraries, and so the sharing GRDB has been great. 407 00:21:12,490 --> 00:21:16,155 And they're working on a cloud kit, library as well to support it. 408 00:21:16,155 --> 00:21:21,039 And so, yeah, I've had a great experience implementing my database layer that way. 409 00:21:22,176 --> 00:21:25,486 I have, yeah, I've started being more and more disappointed and swift out on 410 00:21:25,486 --> 00:21:27,016 the headaches I've run into with it. 411 00:21:27,016 --> 00:21:29,086 So I support your decision. 412 00:21:29,086 --> 00:21:29,656 I get it. 413 00:21:29,956 --> 00:21:32,866 Are you gonna look at some sort of server? 414 00:21:32,916 --> 00:21:33,696 what are you thinking? 415 00:21:33,696 --> 00:21:36,876 Cloud Kit or are you thinking like Vapor or what? 416 00:21:37,719 --> 00:21:39,399 Yeah, I'm definitely doing cloud kit. 417 00:21:39,399 --> 00:21:43,539 I haven't really thought about server side, but 418 00:21:43,686 --> 00:21:44,796 I mean, cloud Kit would do 419 00:21:45,104 --> 00:21:45,584 Right? 420 00:21:45,584 --> 00:21:46,604 it does everything. 421 00:21:46,634 --> 00:21:47,234 It's free. 422 00:21:47,234 --> 00:21:47,594 Yeah. 423 00:21:47,594 --> 00:21:51,884 And I don't like, have to deal with, authentication and account creation 424 00:21:51,884 --> 00:21:53,664 and everything, which is nice. 425 00:21:53,784 --> 00:22:01,014 But, you know, I have thought if in the future, you know, folks, if 426 00:22:01,014 --> 00:22:05,154 there's enough interest and folks are expressing interest on the Android side 427 00:22:05,154 --> 00:22:06,724 of things, I've thought about that. 428 00:22:06,754 --> 00:22:07,504 'cause like with. 429 00:22:08,254 --> 00:22:13,214 My, RI two, I did end up doing Android version, but, so I have 430 00:22:13,214 --> 00:22:16,454 thought about that, like, okay, in the future will I need to have like a 431 00:22:16,454 --> 00:22:20,414 server side component and think about that, but I'm not starting there. 432 00:22:20,464 --> 00:22:23,344 I'll deal with that down the line if there's a need. 433 00:22:23,941 --> 00:22:24,721 I agree with that. 434 00:22:24,811 --> 00:22:26,021 You got bigger fish, the fry. 435 00:22:26,021 --> 00:22:26,891 Yeah, totally. 436 00:22:27,641 --> 00:22:27,911 Yeah. 437 00:22:27,941 --> 00:22:28,421 Cool. 438 00:22:28,721 --> 00:22:30,041 Okay, so let's do it. 439 00:22:30,041 --> 00:22:31,091 Speech analyzer. 440 00:22:31,481 --> 00:22:34,421 So you had talked earlier about how. 441 00:22:34,946 --> 00:22:38,726 It's really hard for mom to tap on the phone and do stuff. 442 00:22:39,516 --> 00:22:44,316 I've also, grilled food and have had notifications on my watch 443 00:22:44,316 --> 00:22:45,786 while I'm carrying something. 444 00:22:45,846 --> 00:22:49,176 So using my nose is not my preference for interacting with 445 00:22:49,176 --> 00:22:51,486 my watch, so I totally get it. 446 00:22:51,916 --> 00:22:56,566 So I'm assuming that like speech analyzer is the same idea where it's like, oh, 447 00:22:56,566 --> 00:22:58,366 I don't have to like touch the thing. 448 00:22:58,366 --> 00:23:00,616 I could just say, Hey, Dingus. 449 00:23:01,516 --> 00:23:05,326 I pumped three ounces of milk right now, or something like that. 450 00:23:05,356 --> 00:23:07,186 Is that, am I saying that correctly? 451 00:23:07,469 --> 00:23:07,709 Yeah. 452 00:23:07,769 --> 00:23:09,059 Well, I mean there, there is. 453 00:23:09,629 --> 00:23:13,539 Still the, you have to initiate via touch, right? 454 00:23:13,539 --> 00:23:15,099 Like the recording. 455 00:23:15,399 --> 00:23:17,859 But at least like, there's less, I think, you know, 456 00:23:17,859 --> 00:23:20,109 interaction that's, that's needed. 457 00:23:20,109 --> 00:23:23,809 So there's Speech analyzer has not related to what I think 458 00:23:23,809 --> 00:23:25,399 I was assuming was like Siri 459 00:23:25,502 --> 00:23:25,792 Yeah. 460 00:23:25,949 --> 00:23:26,909 Maybe explain that I 461 00:23:27,197 --> 00:23:31,817 Yeah, so speech analyzer is the model that is doing the transcription. 462 00:23:32,127 --> 00:23:35,127 And so it's a new on device model that is. 463 00:23:35,627 --> 00:23:38,267 Better than the old like SF Speech Analyzer. 464 00:23:38,267 --> 00:23:39,377 It's much faster. 465 00:23:39,507 --> 00:23:42,087 Doesn't require the server dependency. 466 00:23:42,387 --> 00:23:47,137 It manages like the locales and language, the languages for you, et cetera. 467 00:23:47,137 --> 00:23:49,117 So it's the transcription side of things. 468 00:23:49,327 --> 00:23:55,357 Now, I haven't dived into Siri Kit, which is now I think activity kit. 469 00:23:55,847 --> 00:23:57,557 I think, yeah, there's all that. 470 00:23:57,747 --> 00:23:58,377 I wanna dive 471 00:23:58,494 --> 00:23:59,304 Or intense 472 00:23:59,354 --> 00:24:00,224 Exact app. 473 00:24:00,224 --> 00:24:00,914 Intense. 474 00:24:01,544 --> 00:24:04,544 Yeah, I haven't dived into that yet, which, but I will have to, 'cause 475 00:24:04,544 --> 00:24:07,904 I wanna support live activity, I wanna have widgets, et cetera. 476 00:24:08,204 --> 00:24:10,634 So I definitely will have to dive in there. 477 00:24:10,794 --> 00:24:15,014 And I haven't seen if it's possible to support, transcription. 478 00:24:15,569 --> 00:24:16,889 Inside of an app intent. 479 00:24:17,279 --> 00:24:19,019 I think that would be really powerful. 480 00:24:19,019 --> 00:24:23,219 So like if I could have it be where it's like, Hey, Siri, you 481 00:24:23,219 --> 00:24:25,949 know, login, milk diary, et cetera. 482 00:24:26,189 --> 00:24:29,129 If there's a way to, to support that, I think that would be awesome. 483 00:24:29,189 --> 00:24:29,519 Awesome. 484 00:24:29,549 --> 00:24:31,529 'cause that would be completely hands off, like you said. 485 00:24:31,749 --> 00:24:33,219 but I haven't dived into that yet. 486 00:24:33,719 --> 00:24:37,289 So it sounds to me like speech analyzer is an in-app experience 487 00:24:37,679 --> 00:24:41,249 that gives you a lot more power than what Siri would be able to do 488 00:24:41,657 --> 00:24:42,197 Yeah. 489 00:24:42,597 --> 00:24:44,487 I think the cool thing is like. 490 00:24:45,627 --> 00:24:47,667 With the foundation models, right? 491 00:24:47,667 --> 00:24:48,837 It's all prompt based. 492 00:24:48,837 --> 00:24:54,137 So the speech analyzer being a better model for audio transcription allows you 493 00:24:54,137 --> 00:24:58,427 to then just take that audio and then feed it directly into a prompt, right? 494 00:24:58,427 --> 00:25:02,777 And so I think it just allows more powerful features 495 00:25:02,792 --> 00:25:04,232 and integrations that way. 496 00:25:04,732 --> 00:25:04,952 Yep. 497 00:25:04,957 --> 00:25:05,207 Okay. 498 00:25:05,327 --> 00:25:06,197 Very cool. 499 00:25:06,317 --> 00:25:08,177 I wanna definitely wanna take a look at this. 500 00:25:08,177 --> 00:25:09,677 This sounds awesome. 501 00:25:10,547 --> 00:25:13,217 anything else you wanted to mention before we close out? 502 00:25:13,717 --> 00:25:19,117 I mean, I think the main thing I've been thinking, you know, technology 503 00:25:19,117 --> 00:25:21,247 and everything is changing a lot. 504 00:25:21,247 --> 00:25:24,457 Like this is a very, I think, interesting time to be a developer. 505 00:25:24,767 --> 00:25:30,357 but I think the exciting thing, and one of the reasons why I got into app development 506 00:25:30,357 --> 00:25:32,387 in the first place is the ability to make. 507 00:25:32,942 --> 00:25:36,092 Cool technology that helps people in some way. 508 00:25:36,602 --> 00:25:43,227 And so I think when I think about, folks, I hope that people still feel inspired 509 00:25:43,227 --> 00:25:47,567 and like have the energy and enthusiasm, to still wanna make technology that 510 00:25:47,567 --> 00:25:51,857 helps people among all of the talk of iOS 26, and I know, there's a lot of 511 00:25:51,857 --> 00:25:56,087 controversy and upset, but I still feel really excited about Apple platforms 512 00:25:56,087 --> 00:25:58,047 and being an Apple platform developer. 513 00:25:58,097 --> 00:26:00,437 did you use any AI tools for building your app 514 00:26:01,010 --> 00:26:03,110 I have, used Claude code 515 00:26:03,622 --> 00:26:03,842 Yep. 516 00:26:04,830 --> 00:26:06,270 I have used Claude code. 517 00:26:06,480 --> 00:26:11,780 I think Rob Napier had a really good, blog post about, LLMs and how they're 518 00:26:11,780 --> 00:26:13,220 basically like really good interns. 519 00:26:13,565 --> 00:26:19,535 And I think that when you think about it from that perspective, it's not like 520 00:26:19,535 --> 00:26:24,975 a replacing your development and coding experience, but it's, a support of, and 521 00:26:24,975 --> 00:26:29,985 I think as a solo developer, when you don't have a team, and folks to be able 522 00:26:29,985 --> 00:26:35,025 to bounce ideas off of or get feedback, I think that's what I found it really 523 00:26:35,025 --> 00:26:39,065 helpful for is like, okay, review this code that I wrote, like where are the 524 00:26:39,065 --> 00:26:40,895 downfalls, like how can I improve it? 525 00:26:41,005 --> 00:26:45,365 a tool I just signed up for on GitHub, called Code Rabbit. 526 00:26:45,395 --> 00:26:49,295 It's a AI tool for doing pull request reviews. 527 00:26:49,995 --> 00:26:51,645 that's kind of like what you're 528 00:26:52,059 --> 00:26:55,149 Yeah, exactly, because I just feel like it, especially when you're a solo 529 00:26:55,149 --> 00:26:59,219 developer, it can be hard sometimes, like, it's easy to just, write your 530 00:26:59,219 --> 00:27:02,639 code and think everything is good, but you don't have that kind of feedback 531 00:27:02,639 --> 00:27:06,269 that you get that's really great when you're working in a team environment. 532 00:27:06,269 --> 00:27:10,359 So I found it really helpful for that and just, not having it right. 533 00:27:10,899 --> 00:27:14,669 Everything for me or anything, but just more, trying to improve what I 534 00:27:14,669 --> 00:27:18,229 am doing and improve my development, and make things a bit faster if I 535 00:27:18,229 --> 00:27:20,109 need help, writing something quickly. 536 00:27:20,469 --> 00:27:22,329 It's been really helpful for test. 537 00:27:22,509 --> 00:27:25,209 'cause that's one thing that, you know, I test driven development 538 00:27:25,345 --> 00:27:28,015 Do you have, Claude write unit tests for you? 539 00:27:28,169 --> 00:27:29,879 yeah, I have been doing that, 540 00:27:29,959 --> 00:27:30,769 That's really good. 541 00:27:31,252 --> 00:27:34,612 To have it right, test and make sure I'm covering all my bases there. 542 00:27:34,612 --> 00:27:39,112 So yeah, I have found it helpful in that way to be more like a pair 543 00:27:39,112 --> 00:27:42,072 programmer, intern type of experience. 544 00:27:42,414 --> 00:27:45,354 How about stuff outside of accounting, like marketing 545 00:27:45,444 --> 00:27:47,694 or copy or any of that stuff? 546 00:27:48,137 --> 00:27:49,782 I think, what I usually do is. 547 00:27:50,647 --> 00:27:53,557 I just ask it for a bunch of, like, variations on things 548 00:27:53,557 --> 00:27:55,417 that I already have written. 549 00:27:55,697 --> 00:27:57,857 So I always start, human first. 550 00:27:57,887 --> 00:28:00,287 I'll write things and just say like, okay, can you gimme some 551 00:28:00,287 --> 00:28:03,597 variations of this, in my writing style, what would you recommend? 552 00:28:03,597 --> 00:28:05,937 How can I make this a little bit more concise and whatnot? 553 00:28:06,237 --> 00:28:07,947 And so I have found it helpful for that. 554 00:28:08,027 --> 00:28:11,857 When you're a solo team, it is just a helpful tool give feedback 555 00:28:11,857 --> 00:28:13,617 and be able to brainstorm. 556 00:28:13,667 --> 00:28:15,077 I found it really helpful in that way. 557 00:28:15,899 --> 00:28:18,419 I have a lot of thoughts on AI and coding. 558 00:28:18,497 --> 00:28:19,157 Yeah. 559 00:28:19,559 --> 00:28:23,489 so I am working on a series of blog posts and a video on it, 560 00:28:23,662 --> 00:28:24,362 Oh, okay. 561 00:28:25,067 --> 00:28:26,747 Yeah, I'm excited to, check that out. 562 00:28:26,747 --> 00:28:28,637 So are you like a proponent or. 563 00:28:30,119 --> 00:28:31,019 I'm not gonna say, 564 00:28:31,592 --> 00:28:32,012 Okay, 565 00:28:32,012 --> 00:28:32,702 I use it a lot. 566 00:28:32,702 --> 00:28:37,382 So I'm not a. there's such an extreme spectrum it feels like, 567 00:28:37,382 --> 00:28:40,142 where people are like, AI is great. 568 00:28:40,142 --> 00:28:43,232 I wanted to take over the world and destroy the human race. 569 00:28:43,232 --> 00:28:44,802 And it's wonderful. 570 00:28:45,282 --> 00:28:48,752 And then there's the, you know, what do you call it? 571 00:28:49,112 --> 00:28:52,142 The people who are like, now AI is awful. 572 00:28:52,142 --> 00:28:53,132 It's garbage. 573 00:28:53,942 --> 00:28:56,402 Like we should stop using it and blah, blah, blah. 574 00:28:57,267 --> 00:28:59,787 I would say I'm in the middle, but everybody kind of would say they're 575 00:28:59,787 --> 00:29:04,257 in the middle in anything, so I have to like, not sure where I'd be, but. 576 00:29:05,097 --> 00:29:09,747 It's interesting you mention feedback because I do think one of its weaknesses, 577 00:29:10,287 --> 00:29:15,087 and you see this in a lot of a lot of places, is it will always tell 578 00:29:15,087 --> 00:29:20,817 you you're right and how great you are, and so that's my one weakness. 579 00:29:20,877 --> 00:29:25,047 I've found amongst others, like how well they're trained, if they're 580 00:29:25,047 --> 00:29:28,647 trained on new stuff, because you really don't wanna keep using UI kit 581 00:29:28,737 --> 00:29:31,587 in 2025 and still trained on that. 582 00:29:32,017 --> 00:29:33,097 That is such a pain. 583 00:29:33,147 --> 00:29:35,277 as a Mac developer, I run into that a lot. 584 00:29:35,337 --> 00:29:37,587 There's like all sorts of new Ns. 585 00:29:38,337 --> 00:29:42,477 Classes that don't exist that it creates because it sees the UI kit version. 586 00:29:42,997 --> 00:29:45,757 I do think one of its problems is it'll tell you're right. 587 00:29:45,787 --> 00:29:49,747 So it's good that you're using it for like code reviews. 588 00:29:49,777 --> 00:29:52,057 'cause I do think that's super helpful. 589 00:29:52,567 --> 00:29:54,457 And other problem is people get lazy, right? 590 00:29:54,487 --> 00:29:59,557 That's kind of the core of it is like AI replaces work, so then you 591 00:29:59,557 --> 00:30:02,707 just get lazy and assume it's doing the right thing, which it's not 592 00:30:02,850 --> 00:30:03,355 It is not. 593 00:30:03,355 --> 00:30:06,295 Yeah, I think that's the number one thing I've learned with it is like I never 594 00:30:06,295 --> 00:30:10,705 assume it's right and I never assume that anything that it gives me is correct. 595 00:30:10,825 --> 00:30:14,395 So you always I think people talk about, oh yeah, you're saving a lot of time. 596 00:30:14,395 --> 00:30:17,695 And to be frank, I don't know how much time I save with it because I do a lot 597 00:30:17,775 --> 00:30:18,645 Error proofing. 598 00:30:18,675 --> 00:30:18,975 Right. 599 00:30:18,975 --> 00:30:23,800 Because it does a lot of hallucinations and so, I do spend a lot of 600 00:30:23,800 --> 00:30:27,100 time like correcting it and like reminding it of what the correct 601 00:30:27,130 --> 00:30:28,810 APIs are and things like that. 602 00:30:28,970 --> 00:30:31,760 it does something wrong, I've been trapped in rabbit holes 603 00:30:31,760 --> 00:30:34,940 where it's like I'm spending way too much time trying to tell it. 604 00:30:34,970 --> 00:30:36,200 No, you're doing it wrong. 605 00:30:36,550 --> 00:30:37,060 Yeah. 606 00:30:37,180 --> 00:30:37,720 So 607 00:30:38,922 --> 00:30:40,032 Kay, it was good to see you. 608 00:30:40,292 --> 00:30:42,842 I'm looking forward to having you back on in five years. 609 00:30:43,022 --> 00:30:43,622 This is great 610 00:30:43,690 --> 00:30:45,455 maybe we could do it earlier than five years. 611 00:30:45,455 --> 00:30:46,115 Next time. 612 00:30:46,472 --> 00:30:50,162 We can learn about your new app for helping kindergartners. 613 00:30:50,222 --> 00:30:50,942 Thank you so much. 614 00:30:50,942 --> 00:30:51,692 This is awesome. 615 00:30:51,692 --> 00:30:53,132 I'm so happy to see you again. 616 00:30:53,622 --> 00:30:55,722 where can people find you online? 617 00:30:55,722 --> 00:30:56,892 Where can people find milk? 618 00:30:56,892 --> 00:30:57,522 Diary? 619 00:30:57,522 --> 00:30:58,512 Is it available? 620 00:30:58,512 --> 00:31:01,832 Test, flight, or, sign up or Yeah, go ahead. 621 00:31:01,832 --> 00:31:03,272 Plug your, plug yourself away. 622 00:31:03,635 --> 00:31:04,145 Okay. 623 00:31:04,145 --> 00:31:07,535 Yeah, so milk diary you can find, at milk diary.com. 624 00:31:07,935 --> 00:31:11,085 the test flight is not open to the public just yet. 625 00:31:11,305 --> 00:31:14,850 I'm still in private alpha, but I will be open up. 626 00:31:15,595 --> 00:31:17,765 Slowly, testing opportunities. 627 00:31:17,765 --> 00:31:21,125 you can sign up for the mailing list on the website and then you 628 00:31:21,125 --> 00:31:22,585 can find me online on Mastodon. 629 00:31:22,665 --> 00:31:27,165 Kaya Thomas is, and blue sky. 630 00:31:27,165 --> 00:31:32,365 Although to be honest, I, I'm not really on blue sky that much, or threads. 631 00:31:32,395 --> 00:31:33,475 I'm also on threads. 632 00:31:33,475 --> 00:31:35,485 Same thing, Kaya Thomas is. 633 00:31:35,825 --> 00:31:41,260 my website is also Kaya Thomas is so you can find me online, all those places. 634 00:31:41,760 --> 00:31:42,050 Kaya. 635 00:31:42,050 --> 00:31:42,650 Thank you so much. 636 00:31:43,110 --> 00:31:46,690 People can find me online at Leo Dion. 637 00:31:46,690 --> 00:31:49,690 At Leo Dion at CI am on Mastodon. 638 00:31:50,550 --> 00:31:51,570 my company is bright Digit. 639 00:31:52,180 --> 00:31:54,820 We have all sorts of new stuff on there. 640 00:31:54,820 --> 00:31:59,590 I just posted the iOS backend cheat sheet, so if you're looking for 641 00:31:59,590 --> 00:32:03,080 what kind of backend to pick, you might want to take a look at that. 642 00:32:03,710 --> 00:32:07,660 And yeah, it was great for everybody to join and thank you 643 00:32:07,660 --> 00:32:09,580 so much and have a great summer. 644 00:32:09,580 --> 00:32:10,210 Talk to you later. 645 00:32:10,210 --> 00:32:10,570 Bye.