1 00:00:05,600 --> 00:00:06,320 Hello and 2 00:00:06,320 --> 00:00:10,440 welcome to the very first episode of Ignite and Scale, 3 00:00:10,520 --> 00:00:15,280 the podcast where we deep dive into the stories of startup growth. 4 00:00:15,360 --> 00:00:19,760 I'm thrilled to kick off our series with special guests, the co-founders 5 00:00:19,760 --> 00:00:25,880 of Bumper, a company that's truly redefining the vehicle history space. 6 00:00:25,960 --> 00:00:30,400 Bumpers made significant strides, especially with the recent success 7 00:00:30,400 --> 00:00:34,720 of the Series B funding in a very challenging market. 8 00:00:34,800 --> 00:00:37,560 Today, we're going to explore their journey, 9 00:00:37,560 --> 00:00:41,400 the evolution of their strategies, and gather insights 10 00:00:41,400 --> 00:00:44,880 that are not only inspiring but also immensely valuable 11 00:00:44,880 --> 00:00:50,440 for entrepreneurs and innovators out there. 12 00:00:50,520 --> 00:00:52,560 James Jack, good afternoon. 13 00:00:52,560 --> 00:00:54,400 I like the afternoon you're telling us. 14 00:00:54,400 --> 00:00:56,080 Yeah, no problem. No problem. 15 00:00:56,080 --> 00:00:59,320 I mean, without further ado, perhaps you could both provide us 16 00:00:59,320 --> 00:01:01,680 with an intro into your respective backgrounds 17 00:01:01,680 --> 00:01:04,440 before we dive into some of the questions I've got for you. 18 00:01:04,440 --> 00:01:04,920 Yeah, great. 19 00:01:04,920 --> 00:01:06,560 I'll kick off there, Mike. Yeah. 20 00:01:06,560 --> 00:01:11,040 So I'm the CEO and co-founder of Bumper. 21 00:01:11,120 --> 00:01:15,840 I started my career and the current system on a graph schema 22 00:01:15,840 --> 00:01:20,520 are some kind of top ten UK accountancy firm and 23 00:01:20,600 --> 00:01:23,600 I was involved in kind of auditing management consultancy, 24 00:01:23,760 --> 00:01:28,560 kind of a variety of other roles there before kind of pivoting my career 25 00:01:28,560 --> 00:01:31,920 a bit and moving into fast growing tech startups. 26 00:01:32,000 --> 00:01:35,520 So I was at a company called BET Fair as at Sky. 27 00:01:35,520 --> 00:01:39,000 I was also at Wonga, which is kind of a fintech. 28 00:01:39,080 --> 00:01:41,640 And then after that, 29 00:01:41,640 --> 00:01:44,040 I worked and helped run 30 00:01:44,040 --> 00:01:47,480 a portfolio business for 31 00:01:47,560 --> 00:01:49,600 a tech V.C. 32 00:01:49,600 --> 00:01:51,760 based based in London 33 00:01:51,760 --> 00:01:54,840 and was involved there for a while until eventually being introduced 34 00:01:54,840 --> 00:01:58,800 to Jack and coming up with the concepts of bumper. 35 00:01:58,880 --> 00:01:59,120 Cool. 36 00:01:59,120 --> 00:02:01,600 Yeah, I'll pick up now. So 37 00:02:01,600 --> 00:02:03,800 my background 38 00:02:03,800 --> 00:02:05,480 is automotive, I guess. 39 00:02:05,480 --> 00:02:10,440 So you're following university undergrad scheme in a different sector. 40 00:02:10,440 --> 00:02:14,560 I took my family's business, the parent company called BTC Fund, 41 00:02:14,560 --> 00:02:18,720 which people may have heard of and perhaps more better 42 00:02:18,800 --> 00:02:21,800 pulled out to such platforms they had that one could inquiry 43 00:02:21,840 --> 00:02:26,280 makes a lot more relevant till we did a bumper platform called Auto Racing. 44 00:02:26,280 --> 00:02:29,520 Subsequently became a product into the 45 00:02:29,600 --> 00:02:31,200 smartphone, 46 00:02:31,200 --> 00:02:32,960 which was a vehicle. 47 00:02:32,960 --> 00:02:37,800 Health tech tool is a big health tech tool that identifies repair work. 48 00:02:37,800 --> 00:02:41,640 Prices are presented to the customer, which as we'll explore a bit more 49 00:02:41,640 --> 00:02:44,280 perhaps on today, instead of what the industry may know is 50 00:02:44,280 --> 00:02:48,360 for, is kind of the core of what we do, helping, helping drivers say yes 51 00:02:48,360 --> 00:02:52,960 to more work and ultimately obviously repairers convert more of that work. 52 00:02:53,040 --> 00:02:55,400 And it was through that that platform business that was 53 00:02:55,400 --> 00:02:59,320 that was introduced to James start of what we do can. 54 00:02:59,400 --> 00:02:59,640 Yeah. 55 00:02:59,640 --> 00:03:03,000 I mean just reflecting back on bumpy his journey and I think 56 00:03:03,000 --> 00:03:06,280 I've known you guys for about six years now 57 00:03:06,360 --> 00:03:10,120 and I remember as an advisor to the company 58 00:03:10,200 --> 00:03:14,040 working on some of the key selling messages with you. 59 00:03:14,120 --> 00:03:17,120 In fact, I think I sent you a copy of 60 00:03:17,240 --> 00:03:22,000 a few days ago, but it how is those key selling messages 61 00:03:22,000 --> 00:03:23,120 that were relevant then 62 00:03:23,120 --> 00:03:27,720 and how they evolved into today's growth story and other any aspects 63 00:03:27,720 --> 00:03:31,880 that have remained constant and what's shifted significantly? 64 00:03:31,960 --> 00:03:32,520 Yeah, it's interesting. 65 00:03:32,520 --> 00:03:36,160 We did send that across and it was actually quite an 66 00:03:36,240 --> 00:03:37,440 it was interesting to reread that. 67 00:03:37,440 --> 00:03:41,320 I think it was encouraging is that yeah, things have moved on a lot 68 00:03:41,400 --> 00:03:45,120 in the way that we have solved this problem 69 00:03:45,200 --> 00:03:47,520 in the technology that we utilize both internally 70 00:03:47,520 --> 00:03:50,800 and externally and within the dealer's tech stack as well. 71 00:03:50,880 --> 00:03:53,040 However, the core financial problem that we're solving 72 00:03:53,040 --> 00:03:55,240 is still a problem that pretty much exists 73 00:03:55,240 --> 00:03:58,440 today as much as it did perhaps a few years ago in certain cases 74 00:03:58,440 --> 00:04:03,040 probably accelerated even more so, which is really around 75 00:04:03,120 --> 00:04:04,280 obviously, the conversion of service 76 00:04:04,280 --> 00:04:07,480 and repair work and the affordability that's associated with that. 77 00:04:07,560 --> 00:04:10,760 And that's not to say this is always a totally distressed purchase. 78 00:04:10,840 --> 00:04:16,160 Obviously, for a lot of people, it can be an element of 79 00:04:16,240 --> 00:04:18,720 convenience that they're going to get bored to work day to day. 80 00:04:18,720 --> 00:04:22,600 But you know, perhaps stretching himself to do so would be a problem. 81 00:04:22,680 --> 00:04:25,320 So from my point of view, we recognize that to do this, 82 00:04:25,320 --> 00:04:27,120 you can have all of the parts available. 83 00:04:27,120 --> 00:04:29,960 You could have technician time available, 84 00:04:30,040 --> 00:04:31,520 you could even have coach accounts available. 85 00:04:31,520 --> 00:04:35,200 But if the customer doesn't have the funds available due to expensive, 86 00:04:35,240 --> 00:04:40,080 that's a difficult message to to convey and ultimately to convert that work. 87 00:04:40,160 --> 00:04:43,480 Really what we're doing is addressing that core problem 88 00:04:43,560 --> 00:04:45,840 and the way that we do that, I would say, has evolved. 89 00:04:45,840 --> 00:04:48,600 We're trying to make that whole transaction a better experience 90 00:04:48,600 --> 00:04:51,600 for all involved and ultimately equals a much happier driver 91 00:04:51,600 --> 00:04:56,040 at the end of it and greater customer retention is an outcome that we're laser 92 00:04:56,040 --> 00:04:59,680 focused on today as we were as much as we were beforehand. 93 00:04:59,760 --> 00:05:03,120 What has evolved is the other payment products that we have around that as well. 94 00:05:03,120 --> 00:05:05,880 So that's a cool buy. Now pay later product. 95 00:05:05,880 --> 00:05:07,920 I could name just four perhaps, 96 00:05:07,920 --> 00:05:11,880 but many of our retailers now also utilize all of the payments products 97 00:05:11,880 --> 00:05:15,680 that are paid by card products, facilitating credit, debit cards and 98 00:05:15,760 --> 00:05:18,320 and who pay and Google pay, etc. 99 00:05:18,320 --> 00:05:21,920 are paid by bank for processing open banking transactions. 100 00:05:21,920 --> 00:05:26,320 And then most recently what we call PayPal, so actual physical machines. 101 00:05:26,320 --> 00:05:31,080 So it's evolved to encapsulate any type of payment or any type of customer journey. 102 00:05:31,160 --> 00:05:34,720 But ultimately there's still a lot of consistency in the way that we do this. 103 00:05:34,800 --> 00:05:38,160 And you know, in terms of the initial vision for the company, 104 00:05:38,160 --> 00:05:41,480 you've expanded the services as you've alluded to as well, 105 00:05:41,520 --> 00:05:46,560 but what were they most pivotal moments in your journey today, would you say? 106 00:05:46,640 --> 00:05:47,120 Well, I. 107 00:05:47,120 --> 00:05:51,040 Would probably say the big inflection point came from fully 108 00:05:51,040 --> 00:05:54,040 embedding our products into the software of DNS. 109 00:05:54,240 --> 00:05:56,880 You know, before it was a completely standalone products 110 00:05:56,880 --> 00:06:00,040 that relied on here, the engagement of the service advisor. 111 00:06:00,040 --> 00:06:04,640 And here we're very fortunate that we have some incredibly engaged 112 00:06:04,720 --> 00:06:08,480 high users, kind of super users of our products. 113 00:06:08,560 --> 00:06:12,720 And however, you know, the nature of a service department, you know, 114 00:06:12,720 --> 00:06:18,160 you have a lot of churn and you know, a lot of people coming in, coming out. 115 00:06:18,240 --> 00:06:21,200 And for them always to be aware of the product 116 00:06:21,200 --> 00:06:24,800 and how it works is, you know, a challenge to scale. 117 00:06:24,880 --> 00:06:25,160 Whereas 118 00:06:25,160 --> 00:06:28,160 actually by embedding it into the vehicle health check 119 00:06:28,200 --> 00:06:30,840 process, the video platforms, 120 00:06:30,840 --> 00:06:33,960 the DMS systems, it really enabled us 121 00:06:33,960 --> 00:06:37,760 to scale without completely relying on the service advisor. 122 00:06:37,840 --> 00:06:41,560 So we had effectively two flows, a fully digital one 123 00:06:41,640 --> 00:06:45,800 that was completely within the hands of the consumer and they could 124 00:06:45,800 --> 00:06:49,840 approve the work and spread the cost or pay the full amount. 125 00:06:49,920 --> 00:06:53,320 And you know, accommodate 126 00:06:53,400 --> 00:06:57,640 potentially a more digital focused consumer 127 00:06:57,720 --> 00:07:01,760 as well as continuing to have a standalone product to our service device. 128 00:07:01,760 --> 00:07:04,960 It could process that face to face or over the telephone. 129 00:07:05,040 --> 00:07:06,720 So that's I think that was the big turning point 130 00:07:06,720 --> 00:07:12,280 when we could offer both those and to start to cater for a wider segment, 131 00:07:12,480 --> 00:07:17,760 a larger demographic, but also indeed is where 132 00:07:17,880 --> 00:07:23,440 the stuff may not be as well trained or as knowledgeable or new to the business 133 00:07:23,520 --> 00:07:25,800 through these integrations, we're transacting without them. 134 00:07:25,800 --> 00:07:29,760 So that's really when we had a big take off moment 135 00:07:29,760 --> 00:07:33,720 and led to our first institutional investors 136 00:07:33,800 --> 00:07:35,520 for our series A funding round. 137 00:07:35,520 --> 00:07:38,760 And what would you say was the biggest or most interesting hurdle 138 00:07:38,760 --> 00:07:43,520 that you've overcome, whether that's operationally, strategically, financially? 139 00:07:43,560 --> 00:07:48,960 Well, I think, you know, there's always hurdles to be tell you overcome. 140 00:07:48,960 --> 00:07:50,200 I think when you feel like 141 00:07:50,200 --> 00:07:52,040 you've got to overcome the kind of the biggest one 142 00:07:52,040 --> 00:07:55,760 and then something else that comes around the corner, I probably think about 143 00:07:55,840 --> 00:07:59,200 the kind of the broader journey of the business COVID. 144 00:07:59,280 --> 00:08:02,280 You know, it's really a common answer to that was a major hurdle 145 00:08:02,400 --> 00:08:06,800 in the sense that overnight pretty much everyone's businesses were shut down 146 00:08:06,800 --> 00:08:12,520 and we were not immune to that, albeit we still did it to a small extent. 147 00:08:12,600 --> 00:08:14,880 But that massively, 148 00:08:14,960 --> 00:08:15,320 I guess, 149 00:08:15,320 --> 00:08:16,920 changed the way that we saw our business, 150 00:08:16,920 --> 00:08:19,920 but actually importantly, the way that our client, 151 00:08:20,000 --> 00:08:22,800 the revenues, the franchise groups, the retailers that we work with 152 00:08:22,800 --> 00:08:23,560 viewed it as well. 153 00:08:23,560 --> 00:08:26,560 So yes, that meant 154 00:08:26,640 --> 00:08:29,520 there was obviously fewer vehicles going through workshops. 155 00:08:29,520 --> 00:08:33,160 But what it did mean coming out of it, it did change the way that a lot 156 00:08:33,160 --> 00:08:34,440 of those transactions took place. 157 00:08:34,440 --> 00:08:37,040 It probably well, it certainly forced a lot of retailers 158 00:08:37,040 --> 00:08:39,360 to think about their digital channels more. 159 00:08:39,360 --> 00:08:40,960 You physically couldn't have people coming on site 160 00:08:40,960 --> 00:08:44,400 getting my cards prepared and ultimately paid for equally. 161 00:08:44,400 --> 00:08:49,400 It obviously put some pressure or changes on people's income as well. 162 00:08:49,400 --> 00:08:54,480 So very, very scary time for a fairly significant period for us as a business. 163 00:08:54,480 --> 00:08:58,320 But actually coming out of that, I think there was some long term shifts 164 00:08:58,320 --> 00:09:02,000 within the industry, within the driver base and obviously with us as well. 165 00:09:02,000 --> 00:09:04,200 That changed the way that people transact. 166 00:09:04,200 --> 00:09:07,640 So it created an openness around the conversation of affordability 167 00:09:07,720 --> 00:09:10,240 and it was perhaps a more positive conversation. 168 00:09:10,240 --> 00:09:14,080 But equally the digital journeys that James talked about that were perhaps 169 00:09:14,200 --> 00:09:18,000 more focused on optimized, that ultimately which sits at the core of that 170 00:09:18,080 --> 00:09:21,080 and that's for me, I think was a major hurdle that long term. 171 00:09:21,080 --> 00:09:24,280 I think we've certainly benefited from in the way that we and 172 00:09:24,360 --> 00:09:27,240 my customer base kind of addressed that coming out of it. 173 00:09:27,240 --> 00:09:31,280 I guess, as you say, people started talking about cost of living crisis. 174 00:09:31,280 --> 00:09:35,040 People needed a solution to help them through that. 175 00:09:35,040 --> 00:09:39,600 And I guess, you know, when you're offering a consistent service, 176 00:09:39,600 --> 00:09:42,600 which makes a lot of sense to the consumer as well, 177 00:09:42,600 --> 00:09:46,600 that perhaps came into its own as we came out of it. 178 00:09:46,680 --> 00:09:49,680 And you had they expected the customer journey 179 00:09:49,680 --> 00:09:55,000 enhancements to make kind of a seamless kind of transaction. 180 00:09:55,080 --> 00:09:57,880 I mean, just turn into the series B, 181 00:09:57,880 --> 00:10:00,440 I mean, huge congratulations on that. 182 00:10:00,440 --> 00:10:02,480 They've been few and far between. 183 00:10:02,480 --> 00:10:05,480 And in the current market, 184 00:10:05,520 --> 00:10:10,240 what were the key kind of strategies or insights that helped you 185 00:10:10,320 --> 00:10:15,840 successfully secure that funding in what was a very difficult funded environment? 186 00:10:15,920 --> 00:10:18,920 Yeah, I think there were a number of elements to this. 187 00:10:19,000 --> 00:10:21,240 Firstly, you know, 188 00:10:21,240 --> 00:10:25,080 only good businesses without sounding too kind of 189 00:10:25,160 --> 00:10:27,840 very good businesses getting fed funding right now, you know, 190 00:10:27,840 --> 00:10:31,840 you need to have strong unit economics, good revenue growth. 191 00:10:31,880 --> 00:10:35,480 And we're very fortunate that we've we've grown from 192 00:10:35,560 --> 00:10:38,520 we've grown kind of over ten X since 2020. 193 00:10:38,520 --> 00:10:43,240 So, yeah, we've been doubling the business consistently for the last few years, 194 00:10:43,320 --> 00:10:46,880 which has really, really helped. 195 00:10:46,960 --> 00:10:49,840 And I guess one of the other elements is that we've, 196 00:10:49,840 --> 00:10:52,880 we've built up trust with our investors basically from the series. 197 00:10:53,120 --> 00:10:55,720 So we've 198 00:10:55,800 --> 00:10:56,560 go every 199 00:10:56,560 --> 00:11:00,360 single month we have a big list of management KPIs 200 00:11:00,360 --> 00:11:04,200 that we set ourselves targets how we perform with a long, 201 00:11:04,200 --> 00:11:08,320 quite decent running commentary that we provide every day, every investor. 202 00:11:08,400 --> 00:11:12,480 So I think that helped develop trust to show that 203 00:11:12,560 --> 00:11:15,160 we would do what we said we were going to do and that, 204 00:11:15,160 --> 00:11:18,800 yeah, we're kind of on top of our numbers and we have a lot of kind of live 205 00:11:18,800 --> 00:11:24,160 reporting dashboards again that we have available to our all our investors. 206 00:11:24,240 --> 00:11:27,840 So I think that helps say, yeah, actually every investor we had from a series 207 00:11:27,840 --> 00:11:32,240 A participated in our Series B and actually a few of them 208 00:11:32,240 --> 00:11:36,400 doubled the amount they put in from A to B, So that certainly helped. 209 00:11:36,400 --> 00:11:40,480 But being completely honest, it was a real numbers game as well 210 00:11:40,480 --> 00:11:45,640 because we had to kiss a hell of a lot of frogs before we got. Yes. 211 00:11:45,720 --> 00:11:50,760 And I think we're probably a bit naive on the VC world 212 00:11:50,760 --> 00:11:55,920 when we first started pitching, you know, five, six, seven years ago and didn't 213 00:11:55,920 --> 00:12:00,000 quite appreciate just how many pitches you have to do until you get that. Yes. 214 00:12:00,000 --> 00:12:02,640 And and our series was pretty similar. 215 00:12:02,640 --> 00:12:06,880 So it was having that and 216 00:12:06,960 --> 00:12:07,760 determination 217 00:12:07,760 --> 00:12:10,800 every time you got to know was just a piece of back up again 218 00:12:10,840 --> 00:12:14,440 10 minutes later did a same pitch to a brand new investor 219 00:12:14,520 --> 00:12:18,040 and try and access enthusiastic as you did previously. 220 00:12:18,120 --> 00:12:20,320 So it certainly wasn't always easy. 221 00:12:20,320 --> 00:12:22,280 And I think we had like a hundred no's. 222 00:12:22,280 --> 00:12:26,560 I mean, it was getting pretty bleak to invest. 223 00:12:26,640 --> 00:12:29,440 But, you know, I think we still had 224 00:12:29,440 --> 00:12:32,600 belief in the products in the business. 225 00:12:32,600 --> 00:12:36,120 And I think the final point is that we we raised 226 00:12:36,120 --> 00:12:39,800 when we're in a position of strength, when we were growing strongly 227 00:12:39,880 --> 00:12:45,280 and we had a lot of cash in the bank, yeah, I think a big mistake founders 228 00:12:45,280 --> 00:12:49,480 make is leaving it until you have a36 month runway 229 00:12:49,560 --> 00:12:53,200 and then you really are beholden to that investor. 230 00:12:53,200 --> 00:12:57,760 And in this market they're squeezing you and valuations at the best of times. 231 00:12:57,840 --> 00:12:58,760 But if it's suddenly running 232 00:12:58,760 --> 00:13:02,640 out of cash as well, you know, it really puts you in that weak position. 233 00:13:02,640 --> 00:13:05,640 So we probably raised a year before we needed to. 234 00:13:05,640 --> 00:13:08,320 And looking back now, I think that was 235 00:13:08,400 --> 00:13:09,560 definitely the right decision. 236 00:13:09,560 --> 00:13:13,080 I guess not that the hard work will start again as well 237 00:13:13,080 --> 00:13:19,120 with new investors, with existing investors doubling down on you as well. 238 00:13:19,200 --> 00:13:22,320 I know you're launching some new products. 239 00:13:22,320 --> 00:13:26,680 Are you able to kind of talk about any plans for 2024? 240 00:13:26,680 --> 00:13:30,120 And then maybe as a follow up to that question, 241 00:13:30,200 --> 00:13:32,840 how you intend to leverage air with enough? 242 00:13:32,840 --> 00:13:38,440 Yeah, as you said one briefly, we are more than just a buy now pay later company. 243 00:13:38,520 --> 00:13:41,920 Yes. Is at the core of what we do is we're best known for but we recognize 244 00:13:41,920 --> 00:13:45,000 that not every customer wants to spread the cost. 245 00:13:45,080 --> 00:13:47,120 You know, they certainly want to transact digitally, 246 00:13:47,120 --> 00:13:50,880 but they may want to pay in full, which is why we introduced that to you. 247 00:13:51,080 --> 00:13:53,240 That was managing to keep it as well, 248 00:13:53,240 --> 00:13:55,680 where you physically couldn't come on site to transact. 249 00:13:55,680 --> 00:14:00,320 But we launched our pay by card product, so the SMS email 250 00:14:00,400 --> 00:14:03,280 generated link or ops, it could be embedded into 251 00:14:03,280 --> 00:14:06,280 any of the platforms that we've mentioned already 252 00:14:06,400 --> 00:14:11,600 that gives those people the ability to transact very quickly digitally that be 253 00:14:11,680 --> 00:14:15,360 and allows the retailer to secure payment and without actually having to 254 00:14:15,360 --> 00:14:19,800 come on site or if they do come on site, adding to the the queue of people 255 00:14:19,800 --> 00:14:24,720 and these pinch points at the start or end of a data collection or drop off 256 00:14:24,800 --> 00:14:28,320 and we then subsequently have launched a pay by by product. 257 00:14:28,320 --> 00:14:31,120 So I think people will be growing familiar 258 00:14:31,120 --> 00:14:36,160 with open banking as a concept experience the bank to bank transfers, 259 00:14:36,240 --> 00:14:37,640 again, recognizing 260 00:14:37,640 --> 00:14:41,480 some of the shifts in the dealer ecosystem of this huge cost 261 00:14:41,480 --> 00:14:45,520 initiatives being put in place across all our retail partners 262 00:14:45,600 --> 00:14:49,760 and we've got a massive ability to reduce their transaction fees. 263 00:14:49,760 --> 00:14:52,760 So the banking carries a much, much lower transaction fee, 264 00:14:52,880 --> 00:14:55,880 super secure can facilitate instant payment. 265 00:14:55,880 --> 00:14:57,680 There's been a great reception to that product 266 00:14:57,680 --> 00:14:59,680 and we're seeing utilize on both sides of the car 267 00:14:59,680 --> 00:15:03,560 boot sales on Aftersales, which has been really exciting. 268 00:15:03,640 --> 00:15:07,760 And then the actual physical machines which we call paper, they actually 269 00:15:07,760 --> 00:15:10,920 bring together all of our payment options into one physical terminal. 270 00:15:10,920 --> 00:15:12,720 So if you've got customers at the desk, 271 00:15:12,720 --> 00:15:16,120 whether they want to spread the cost to pay in full by card or you can bank it, 272 00:15:16,200 --> 00:15:19,280 we can facilitate that through a branded journey 273 00:15:19,280 --> 00:15:22,640 that fully reconciles within the DMS to the ledger accounts, etc.. 274 00:15:22,640 --> 00:15:26,520 So really exciting, great tech, much more nascent than or the products, 275 00:15:26,520 --> 00:15:27,600 but something that we're looking to 276 00:15:27,600 --> 00:15:31,360 roll out en masse and then going back to to the other part of your question there 277 00:15:31,400 --> 00:15:34,320 about other markets that we're 278 00:15:34,400 --> 00:15:36,360 the reason we did some we've actually not to go to headcount. 279 00:15:36,360 --> 00:15:38,680 We recognize that we've got a big opportunity in all markets. 280 00:15:38,680 --> 00:15:40,680 We don't want to dilute our focus in the UK. 281 00:15:40,680 --> 00:15:43,080 So we're doubling down on our UK 282 00:15:43,080 --> 00:15:46,000 kind of team and infrastructure, but also adding to our headcount in 283 00:15:46,000 --> 00:15:49,400 in Germany, Spain, the Netherlands and Republic of Ireland, where fundamentally 284 00:15:49,400 --> 00:15:53,120 the problem that we get about on the call that we're looking to solve. 285 00:15:53,200 --> 00:15:55,800 And so what unexpected costs potentially about 286 00:15:55,800 --> 00:15:59,080 customer outcome, lack of retention of all the cars 287 00:15:59,160 --> 00:16:02,880 that problem exists in those markets as much as it does here in the UK. 288 00:16:02,880 --> 00:16:06,880 So we see that as an opportunity that we can we can capture 289 00:16:06,960 --> 00:16:09,640 from what we've learned here in the UK, and that's something that we're, you know, 290 00:16:09,640 --> 00:16:14,080 we're really excited about 2024 and becoming a truly international 291 00:16:14,160 --> 00:16:17,600 payments business, not solely just the UK as well. 292 00:16:17,680 --> 00:16:19,800 James I don't want to pick up on the point, but. 293 00:16:19,800 --> 00:16:23,920 Yeah, I mean we've actually always used elements of I, you know, 294 00:16:24,040 --> 00:16:26,280 probably the last four or five years 295 00:16:26,280 --> 00:16:28,600 kind of using machine learning for our underwriting. 296 00:16:28,600 --> 00:16:32,520 You know, we have such big datasets that we process 297 00:16:32,600 --> 00:16:33,760 to really get the most out 298 00:16:33,760 --> 00:16:38,040 of that and optimize our exit rates and ensure we're lending responsibly 299 00:16:38,040 --> 00:16:42,880 and price and generating good raise rates. 300 00:16:42,960 --> 00:16:45,200 You know, it's important to leverage that technology. 301 00:16:45,200 --> 00:16:49,080 So that's always been kind of a pretty fundamental part of 302 00:16:49,240 --> 00:16:52,240 of the business, and it really differentiates us 303 00:16:52,240 --> 00:16:55,080 to the kind of people generally. 304 00:16:55,080 --> 00:16:56,880 He don't collect the same amounts of data. 305 00:16:56,880 --> 00:17:00,440 I mean, we collect the consumer finance data for the consumer, 306 00:17:00,440 --> 00:17:05,600 but also the vehicle types, the engine sizes, MFT performance, you know, 307 00:17:05,720 --> 00:17:09,880 you name it, hundreds if not thousands of additional datasets 308 00:17:09,960 --> 00:17:12,480 that really give us unique insights. 309 00:17:12,480 --> 00:17:15,360 So that's one point and that's only going to develop. 310 00:17:15,360 --> 00:17:19,120 And you know, as AI becomes more sophisticated, 311 00:17:19,200 --> 00:17:24,880 we'll be putting more elements of that into our underwriting and and processing. 312 00:17:24,960 --> 00:17:27,880 And I guess the exciting elements that we're using 313 00:17:27,880 --> 00:17:31,840 are much, much more recently a kind of around marketing. 314 00:17:31,840 --> 00:17:35,440 So, you know, when we do 315 00:17:35,520 --> 00:17:39,000 testimonial videos for the UK, you know, within minutes 316 00:17:39,000 --> 00:17:42,000 you can generate German, Spanish, Dutch 317 00:17:42,000 --> 00:17:45,200 versions at incredibly good standards. 318 00:17:45,200 --> 00:17:49,240 So Pense, whereas before we would have you spent thousands 319 00:17:49,240 --> 00:17:53,160 of pounds of having localized production teams filming it. 320 00:17:53,160 --> 00:17:57,680 So elements like that all our SCA, all our content 321 00:17:57,760 --> 00:18:03,320 and a lot of our sales processes now leverage 322 00:18:03,400 --> 00:18:07,240 in terms of and Blanca emailing 323 00:18:07,280 --> 00:18:10,960 prospects across Europe or writing very detailed 324 00:18:11,160 --> 00:18:14,160 detailed personal messages. 325 00:18:14,320 --> 00:18:17,640 We've even been trying it in the call centers as well 326 00:18:17,640 --> 00:18:21,320 for some of the kind of more basic tests and requirements. 327 00:18:21,400 --> 00:18:25,520 So really you know, it should and is touching every part of the business. 328 00:18:25,520 --> 00:18:30,240 We had one of the UK's leading AI experts coming into the business 329 00:18:30,240 --> 00:18:32,880 and presenting to the whole company 330 00:18:32,880 --> 00:18:36,400 a couple of months ago and we had a two hour workshop 331 00:18:36,400 --> 00:18:40,760 with our senior management team again, just making sure that we're learning 332 00:18:40,760 --> 00:18:45,160 best practice of how this can be leveraged within our space, 333 00:18:45,240 --> 00:18:48,960 but also being aware of some of the risks, you know, ensuring 334 00:18:48,960 --> 00:18:53,520 that your own data is protected and secure and isn't 335 00:18:53,600 --> 00:18:57,480 available to the wide the wider world. 336 00:18:57,480 --> 00:18:59,520 So yeah, there's certainly risks. 337 00:18:59,520 --> 00:19:03,280 But I think if you're going in there with your eyes open, have policies in place, 338 00:19:03,360 --> 00:19:06,000 protect your data, 339 00:19:06,000 --> 00:19:08,520 which is obviously incredibly crucial, 340 00:19:08,520 --> 00:19:11,080 then you know, there's a lot of upsides to it. 341 00:19:11,080 --> 00:19:15,160 And, you know, we're certainly excited about how we can continue to leverage it 342 00:19:15,240 --> 00:19:16,040 across the business. 343 00:19:16,040 --> 00:19:19,360 And finally, just to wrap up, 344 00:19:19,440 --> 00:19:23,880 what's the single bit of advice that both for you 345 00:19:23,880 --> 00:19:27,600 individually would give entrepreneurs who are starting out or looking 346 00:19:27,600 --> 00:19:32,000 to scale their business, particularly in light of current market conditions? 347 00:19:32,160 --> 00:19:37,400 I think from my side as well, James and I on today's podcast is the founders. 348 00:19:37,440 --> 00:19:40,440 I think there's obviously a wider team of people 349 00:19:40,520 --> 00:19:45,200 that are, you know, massively responsible for what we do today the growth, 350 00:19:45,240 --> 00:19:45,840 the business, 351 00:19:45,840 --> 00:19:50,120 the health of the business, what you said in terms of market conditions, 352 00:19:50,200 --> 00:19:54,040 I think for me one of the best things would be doing as best as possible. 353 00:19:54,040 --> 00:19:57,360 What a great team around you, you know, a team of people. 354 00:19:57,360 --> 00:20:00,840 But fundamentally, you enjoy the company as well. 355 00:20:00,920 --> 00:20:03,720 You know, when times are tough and we've had some very, very tough times, 356 00:20:03,720 --> 00:20:05,360 I think you need to be able to 357 00:20:05,360 --> 00:20:09,200 to rely on those people and also be able to spend time in the company is key. 358 00:20:09,240 --> 00:20:10,440 You do something huge amounts of time. 359 00:20:10,440 --> 00:20:14,400 James not joking actually about the amount of time we've we spend 360 00:20:14,440 --> 00:20:18,560 together of late is is is extensive perhaps during that time 361 00:20:18,640 --> 00:20:24,560 arguably the a good time to get a good amount of people together 362 00:20:24,640 --> 00:20:25,680 you that's when you 363 00:20:25,680 --> 00:20:28,680 really kind of see the country character people 364 00:20:28,680 --> 00:20:31,760 you know when times are good everybody's happy to be you know part of it. 365 00:20:31,760 --> 00:20:35,160 The whole success has many fathers and kind of narrative. 366 00:20:35,240 --> 00:20:37,640 It's when times are hard and it's pull together 367 00:20:37,640 --> 00:20:39,080 and think we've got some great members of team, 368 00:20:39,080 --> 00:20:42,280 they've got some super long standing members of our senior team 369 00:20:42,360 --> 00:20:45,840 that are as as responsible 370 00:20:45,920 --> 00:20:47,360 for the growth of the business. 371 00:20:47,360 --> 00:20:50,040 So for me, it's about getting the best people around you as possible. 372 00:20:50,040 --> 00:20:51,480 Yeah, I mean, I completely agree with that. 373 00:20:51,480 --> 00:20:54,200 You need to be enjoying the work. 374 00:20:54,200 --> 00:20:56,680 You want to be coming in to work and, 375 00:20:56,680 --> 00:20:58,800 you know, looking forward to it rather than dreading it. 376 00:20:58,800 --> 00:20:59,840 So completely agree with that. 377 00:20:59,840 --> 00:21:04,320 I mean, I think the other characteristic is definitely tenacity. 378 00:21:04,320 --> 00:21:08,360 I mean, you talked about the series B, We will attend hundreds of pitches 379 00:21:08,360 --> 00:21:11,800 during a series B, probably a similar number, it 380 00:21:11,880 --> 00:21:14,880 seems, is a you know, it's when you have a know 381 00:21:14,880 --> 00:21:19,200 that you pick yourself back up again and keep that enthusiasm. 382 00:21:19,200 --> 00:21:24,880 So tenacity and you that's definitely applies to the sales team. 383 00:21:24,960 --> 00:21:29,560 You know, there's been so many groups over the years who said, no, no, no, no. 384 00:21:29,640 --> 00:21:33,880 And then the 50th time in asking suddenly is a yes. 385 00:21:33,960 --> 00:21:38,200 So, yeah, I think that's been a huge part of Jack's success. 386 00:21:38,280 --> 00:21:40,440 You know, we now have over 5000. 387 00:21:40,440 --> 00:21:45,800 This is huge testament to the success of him and his team. 388 00:21:45,880 --> 00:21:48,880 And I think the final point probably is, 389 00:21:48,960 --> 00:21:52,720 you know, the expression that, you know, perfection is the enemy of good 390 00:21:52,720 --> 00:21:56,000 and I do think founders of an idea 391 00:21:56,080 --> 00:22:00,400 try and make it perfect and spend hours and hours and hours 392 00:22:00,400 --> 00:22:04,360 thinking and strategizing without just actually getting on with it and doing it. 393 00:22:04,440 --> 00:22:06,640 But it might not be perfect from day one. 394 00:22:06,640 --> 00:22:10,280 But I think that action and taking a bit of a punt 395 00:22:10,360 --> 00:22:13,360 is the key to a successful founder. 396 00:22:13,400 --> 00:22:17,400 And you know, you need a NPV to get life and trying 397 00:22:17,400 --> 00:22:21,240 to make something perfect that doesn't then have market sets could be too late. 398 00:22:21,240 --> 00:22:24,240 So you're much better at getting things live, learning from them 399 00:22:24,240 --> 00:22:28,080 and improving them as you go rather than trying to have this perfect product. 400 00:22:28,080 --> 00:22:29,760 And day 100%. 401 00:22:29,760 --> 00:22:33,720 Well, just really appreciate your time and sharing some of those 402 00:22:33,720 --> 00:22:39,240 valuable insights and hopefully have you on in the next 6 to 9 months. 403 00:22:39,240 --> 00:22:42,240 But thanks for your time. Much appreciated. 404 00:22:42,280 --> 00:22:43,240 Cheers. Mike. 405 00:22:43,240 --> 00:22:48,240 Big Yeah, thank you for having us, Mike. 406 00:22:48,320 --> 00:22:49,800 If you want to listen to more 407 00:22:49,800 --> 00:22:54,080 episodes of the podcast, we're on all good audio platforms. 408 00:22:54,160 --> 00:22:57,240 Our website is also top out of Utopia, 409 00:22:57,440 --> 00:23:00,640 the Cumbria private capsule dot com, 410 00:23:00,720 --> 00:23:03,480 and you can also find myself on LinkedIn 411 00:23:03,480 --> 00:23:07,120 and Twitter where we publish our weekly blogs as well. 412 00:23:07,200 --> 00:23:10,360 Please do get in touch if you want more information.