MB: Yeah.
Okay.
We are good.
We right as rain, now.
AK: Yeah.
Matt B: Is fine.
How are you on a Friday?
Alison K: I'm pretty good.
I'm still riding a high, baskin' in an afterglow, if you will, of a
really great Castle Birthday Weekend.
Matt B: Castle Birthday Weekend.
Alison K: See, I got, home, and just decided I'm not gonna overcompensate
this week when it comes to work.
I think that's something that I'm realizing I do.
Maybe it's ADHD inspired.
Maybe it's not where it's like, you don't feel like you did enough, so then you
just like race to do a bunch of stuff.
Matt B: Yeah.
Alison K: And I was just like, I'm not, gonna do that.
I'm just gonna act as if I was at work on Monday and Tuesday and have
a normal Wednesday through Friday.
Matt B: Wow.
I'm envious.
Cuz I did I did.
Whoops.
I didn't get the memo.
Alison K: I'm sorry.
Matt B: That's okay.
Alison K: I was, I, you know what, I was piloting it.
I was testing it.
Uh, The concept is still in beta, Matt and, and, uh, I'll let you know.
For
Matt B: Yeah.
No, I appreciate that.
Oh God.
Um,
MB: Hello everyone.
Welcome to ADHd20, a podcast where talk about ADHD, and D&D.
Or any other RPG that you're into.
AK: Or anything else.
MB: Really?
Yeah, really.
We are not, we are not that picky.
We are not that picky.
Um, so anyway, Yeah.
AK: We'll be talking about, uh, PBJ and BBQ.
No, I'm just kidding.
no,
MB: R.E.M., TLC.
AK: R.E.S.P.E.C.T.
MB: Yeah.
we're in a little bit of a different situation.
I'm in an Airbnb in this amazing place in Damascus, Virginia, close to my Mama.
It is really wonderful.
It's a very cool place.
We, we climbed a mountain today and saw wild ponies and
rhododendrons, but the internet is really bad, so yeah, that's okay.
we'll make do.
And so my mic is a little different.
If anybody is an audiophile, and like really pissed.
And like, Matt just doesn't have the vocal clarity that he normally has.
Then I,
AK: first of all, if somebody hears this and thinks that, then
you, 'cause really great ear, you.
Good job.
and if you also are in audiophile, you also know that sometimes you're just
slaves to your equipment, technology, and some things are just out of your hands.
So patience is appreciated while Matt lives somewhere else for a month.
MB: I've gotta I've gotta live life.
I've gotta be free.
AK: Let him live.
Let him live.
Let him work.
MB: Let me work, Let me live.
Anyway.
You were saying that you came away from castle birthday and you kind of treated
yourself like a human being and I didn't.
AK: So Matt just had his milestone birthday.
Mine is on the horizon in two weeks and one day, but who's counting.
And I've just decided that I don't want the energy surrounding my 40th
to be full of stress and negativity.
So I'm done.
I've finished with that portion, for the foreseeable future.
So yeah, I just kind of coasted back in.
If I get down, I just close my eyes and teleport myself back to last weekend.
Think about all the dumb shit I said.
MB: Yes.
AK: While gathered around a table three of my favorite humans.
MB: The dumbest stuff ever being said.
And yet every bit of it, gold, audible gold.
AK: You, dear listener will never hear more of it.
Because we didn't record a thing while we were there.
MB: That's not what it, that was not what it was about, but, I think
that there could be a future Castle Birthday where we do record things.
Just, I don't know.
I feel I really, this was your birthday and my birthday and it was
friends and it was, lot of new things.
Apparently we all went into the weekend wondering whether we would
like Dungeons and Dragons after eight or, or each other after three
nights, four days kind of thing.
Is that right?
Ish.
AK: I did not wonder the, especially the, the D&D I, I know that others,
vocalized that, but I was not worried.
MB: Good, good.
I'm not.
Yeah.
Good.
Well,
AK: Not to be a contrarian, but here we are.
MB: No, it was just so new.
I have not played in a room with a group of people since I was
little and you had never, right?
Um, and it was just a time of firsts and we, so we roll up on this place...
AK: Can we like let's rewind because we've been talking about
MB: Yeah.
AK: Castle Birthday for so long, that I forget there's people that are like,
you did what, who when when, why?
So last fall, Evan comes to me and says, Matt's next birthday is a big one.
I think we should do something.
I don't think he used the word epic, but whatever Biv's version
of the word epic would be.
And not one...
Yeah, super sweet.
and not one to ever be left out of anything.
I was like, like three and a half weeks after Matt's milestone comes my own.
Can I get in on that?
You got some of that sweet sick action for me too.
And he was like, okay, well, done.
Now, if two of us are having big bads, let's do this up right.
So I think it was actually Lindsay, your wife, who first had the idea of let's
go somewhere, nerdy, corny, and awesome.
And your first offering was a Hobbit hole.
MB: Mmm-hmm
AK: And from there.
MB: Which does look great by the way.
AK: It does look great.
And it's still like it's on our mood board.
It's not going anywhere.
It is surprisingly easy to find themed stays on Airbnb and V R B O
or VRBO or whatever we call it now.
And so we just ended up finding this castle in Knoxville, Tennessee.
That looked the right kind of spoopy and eccentric.
Sorry, I know you hate it when I say spoopy, but whatever.
Um, and it...
thank you.
And so we booked it with the thought that we would just come together.
Matt, myself, Evan, and Fitz, and just play Dungeons and Dragons for four
straight days and not do anything else.
That's it.
That's the whole tweet.
MB: Yeah.
Yeah.
in a themed home.
And.
yes, there, like you said, that many options and this one just kind
of fit the bill for many reasons.
And there isn't a lot of documentation on this place, by the owners either.
And, it's in Knoxville, Tennessee.
So you, once you arrive, you kind of, you realize what's happening.
It is a home.
I still don't know what type of home it is, but it was a home that
they then built on castle elements like turrets and watch towers and
dungeons and, uh, hidden bedrooms.
Knocked it out of the park.
Through bookcases and all kinds of just every single inch of the
place was covered in stuff that I think the owner had begged,
borrowed stolen, bought to decorate to give this place a castle theme.
And boy, she did a bang up job, knocked it out and it's in Knoxville.
You, it's in a remote.
I don't even know how remote it is, but it's, you know, it's
Knoxville, Tennessee, it's just this little treasure up on a hill.
that, that kind of looks like a castle.
and specifically with a Scottish theme, which I also, you know,
approved of because I'm a MacNab
AK: MacNab.
MB: And, yeah, it couldn't have been better.
One thing that was amazing, there was little to no light in most of the
house, even in bright shining day.
So the bedroom has plenty of light, and then there was another sort of room, the
room, that they do, special events in.
So you either have to go outside or the bedroom and hang out if you want light,
but that's great for us because we are playing a game that was designed
to be played in basements in Dungeons.
And so this large living room with an enormous stocky wooden table, was perfect.
AK: Can I just say that I so Fitz and I were the first two to arrive
at the castle, and set some things up before Matt and Evan arrived.
and the chills I got when I like put the map on the table that we would later, put
little minis on and move around a board.
I haven't ever gotten to do that.
I do have real dice that I roll when we play, but it's just, it hits different
when you're all at the same table.
and so as Fitz I kind of like unrolled that, surprising to no one
burst out into hysterical giggle fit, because it was just so it was,
MB: Perfect.
perfect.
It was perfect.
And I had prepared a bunch of stuff, a whole new world that
no one had really, known about.
And, I didn't know how I was going to present this or what it was gonna
be like to play live and in person.
I mean, luckily I, you know, I knew you all, so you trusted me.
I trusted you.
It's.
it wasn't like performance anxiety so much.
It's just, wow, does this work?
I don't know.
And it just did.
from this first
AK: Just
MB: Just sitting down and in, in a throne, sitting in a throne, and
just kind of looking at everyone and saying, Welcome to this world.
That's when I got chills is when I, I could look at all of you
in the eye and just start the storytelling and whew, dang, man.
Ugh, the best, the best.
AK: It was.
It was an interesting, it was an interesting proof that we'll go Jurassic
Park for a second life finds a way.
no, it was an interesting that what's supposed to shake out
what's supposed to happen will.
So we had actually started talking about building this world that we played in
months ago, and we did some play testing with some different characters, originally
thinking that we were gonna hit the ground running, so that way, by the time we made
it to castle birthday weekend, We were gonna be just already very immersed in
this world, and we were gonna maybe be coming to a big boss fight or something
with, some kind of stakes, if you will.
and the way it ended up happening, we scrapped some of our original
ideas for characters and all started fresh and, and built something.
what had happened when we first tried to build the characters, a big lesson
for us, and I would love to hear from any D&D nerds on this concept
is we tried to build characters before we knew anything about the
world that they would be living in.
And they just fundamentally didn't work.
Didn't fit.
Didn't jive as a party.
So we scrapped our original character concepts, Matt shared with us just a
few juicy tasty, tiny little morsels.
and then we all went away, built our characters, had kind of a Session
Zero a couple of weeks ago, just to, introduce the basics and decide
what we would and wouldn't know.
And I have to say, it could not have worked out more perfectly.
I love that we started this adventure at Castle Birthday.
I love that the first minute we got to play, we were all, sharing the same
space and air and, looking into each other's eyes and not the screens like
that is so monumental and special to me.
I can't even find the words.
so it all worked out as it was supposed to, it all worked out as it should.
Um, and I'm so grateful that we got the chance and now I feel so much
more invested in this character.
And one thing I tried to do differently with this character build was just.
Let her play out in game.
I think usually I come in with too much of a backstory and too many decisions made.
and so with this character, I didn't know her mannerisms.
I didn't know like how she would react to stress or anger or fear or happiness.
And it was pretty cool.
Just like getting introduced to her in game, just as I was introduced to the
characters that Evan and Fitz brought.
And of course, all of the NPCs that Matt started throwing our
way just right outta the gate.
MB: It was such a fun, balanced crew rolling up.
Like I really, I loved all the work that everybody had done.
And I was proud of the work that I had done to give them room
to be in, in this new world.
And yeah, you said it, you said it, it was really just, a perfect
beginning and, certainly, it will continue to move and grow, sadly,
not as many times in person, but.
One thing I thought we could talk about to kind of tie in some ADHD stuff in that,
because some people want to hear that and not just about our fun castle birthday.
Uh, part of what I was concerned about was really trying to find the system.
I needed to find the proper way to show elements of this world, to the characters
and Fitz had brought this cool, dry erase board tabletop grid that she used to great
success when she was the dungeon master.
But I, of course need some things to be digital.
That's just who I
AK: Matthew Bivins is all digital, no analog.
MB: All digital, all the time.
Anyway, so I needed a way to have my notes and have this thing
and then have some way for you all to visualize and plan and
strategize and so on and so forth.
And in a perfect world, someday, someday, I will build a true
tabletop role playing game table.
I want to have a screen in the middle.
That's a true dream.
So that, that will happen someday, but in the meantime, to focus what
I was doing, but not to lose focus.
We kind of go back and forth using Foundry Virtual Tabletop, and Encounter+.
These are two very different virtual tabletop systems.
One is incredibly powerful and incredibly complicated.
And it's really good for virtual play because you can give all kinds of,
power to the characters, to your players.
it's just a more robust sharing system.
But I also love this thing called Encounter+ that has like a quarter of the
fans, a tiny fraction of the, community.
it's much, much simpler.
But it was so perfect for this.
Encounter+ won my heart again in this situation, especially live because it
shares just what the players need to see, which is basically, a dry erase
board that you put on your table and you could draw things, right.
Except all digital all the time.
And I loved it.
I loved it.
in, in the past, we've talked about how much control you as
players would like to have over movement and planning and strategy.
And this time we just kind of went Critical Role with it, where you
said, I want to go there and even pointed to the monitor that you
could see, and I moved you there.
and it was really dice focused.
It was really simple.
And yeah.
What were you gonna.
AK: And nothing.
No, I was gonna say, and nothing suffered.
I did not feel hampered at any point in time by saying Hey Matt, how many feet?
Uh, because for those of you who don't play, but will one day, well,
have in any given turn, you've got an amount of movement, you have
an action, and so you have to make sure that if you're gonna fire off
a spell you're within range, do so.
And.
So we just, we used our words and said, you know, move me here, move me there.
and it worked.
You didn't seem bothered.
I know I wasn't bothered.
MB: More importantly, and I'll, I'll try to keep this short, impossible, but I
really think I stumbled upon something that really does apply to ADHD.
And I've talked a few times about these virtual tabletops
and how I love tinkering so much.
I love playing with things and new stuff and like tech and especially with
Foundry, which, will always have a place in my heart and it will always have a
purpose, I think, in what I'm doing.
But you can futz with that thing for hours.
You can futz with it until you have no time to build
your ding dang world, right.
And, in Encounter+ you can't do that, it's, it's a much simpler thing.
And man, I just, I didn't miss a beat, as far as what I needed to do
as a storyteller or a co storyteller, I didn't miss a beat in that.
I didn't miss a technology that Foundry could give me, everybody was rolling
dice for the most part and I had just enough help with math and stuff, with
encounters and placement and stuff.
Just enough to get the job done.
And the simplified nature of everything, including y'all just being there, right?
No dropouts, no sound issues.
The simpler game was, as you can imagine so much easier
AK: Mm-hmm
MB: For me to focus and talk and tell and do right.
Actually, when we switched to using Foundry with our friend,
Matt pulled in for a different game, it all fell apart, right.
I had actually stop and say, guys, I'm so sorry.
This is just way harder to do this.
Kind of with this mix of live and virtual.
and I'm totally distracted.
And this is a, a critical moment that I'm totally messing up.
So it's very interesting how, I think I was able to focus so much better with
y'all in the room with me, I was aware when you are not focused and I could
like and I could say mm-hmm no, I don't, I don't wanna talk about that right now.
I'm trying to listen to the Dungeon Master or whatever it was, or I want
you to listen to the dungeon master.
Dude.
That's just what we do.
That's part of our life.
AK: Guess who toddler of the class was?
MB: Um, and being a dungeon master is easier for me to focus.
The strange combination of singleness mixed with, uh, multitasking just triggers
enough so that I feel like I'm more focused in the game than I am as a player.
Because I think the player, honestly takes, ah, more focus
like cuz it's single minded, right?
You need to listen to what your, your game master is saying.
And you need to listen to what the, other characters are saying.
And that's harder for me.
It truly is actually more difficult with ADHD with me.
AK: I think the only thing that I'm disappointed in, we didn't even
have junk food, ate vegetables.
MB: We vegetables like my brother brought, he brought quote unquote junk
food, but it was beautiful, plantain
AK: It was all avocado yeah, flax and plantain and
MB: Healthiest damn snacks.
not a Dorito in a country mile,
AK: Lines were drawn though over the great Oreo debate.
That's where it almost all fell apart When.
MB: That's true, there were some junk food
AK: We did have, we did have Oreos.
Uh, Fitz and I went to the snack aisle procured, the double stuff Oreos
to, she had said, you know, I feel that Double Stuf are the baseline.
that's the basic Oreo, anything above that is extra.
And we come back to the cart, gotta put it the cart of Matt looks at us and goes,
oh, so you're double stuffed people.
MB: Mm-hmm
AK: That's it.
that's as close to an encounter as we came all weekend with one another.
MB: It was just eyebrows raised because.
I know of this.
I, I'm a fan of Good Mythical Morning, you know, they did a whole thing about
Oreos and where is the baseline?
And for many, people double stuff is the baseline.
Regular has always been for me.
I, I went along with it.
Number one is your birthday, number two, I loved the double stuff upon having it.
AK: We didn't come close to finishing the
MB: Not no, exactly.
We, yeah, exactly.
We bought the junk food, proud of ourselves reminded that Oreos
are actually vegan, so yikes.
That doesn't bode well, but then couldn't eat like even a full row.
AK: Even when we ordered pizza, we ordered bougie, fancy pizza.
we have like walnuts and blue cheese
MB: in all this.
AK: A total veggie one.
There
MB: Yeah.
Yeah.
AK: Insist on a salad or my body would revolt of revolting it was absurd.
And I loved it.
Um,
MB: Talking about big birthdays.
That's I guess happens.
Don't be ashamed.
And so much sparkling water, so much,
AK: We went through so much, so much fizzy water.
We smashed all expectations though, out of the park.
It was truly magical.
I can't wait to go back.
I can't wait to do it again.
I think we have to do a little parade of castle homes.
We don't need to stick to one.
Try the Hobbit hole next.
There's fairy cabin.
What was great about this one is, is for the ADHD folks in the
house, there were no distractions.
There was nothing else that we wanted to do.
We didn't friends in Knoxville.
Like at one point we were looking at cabins in Pigeon Forge, but then I
would've wanted to go looking for Dolly and, And so there, there would've been
too many, you know, reasons to not play D&D even for four people who love D&D.
So I, I kind of like that we protected our mental space going into this
and said, no, we're going somewhere where there is nothing else to do.
MB: And absolutely no shade on Knoxville, Tennessee.
I'm sure that it has tons of stuff to do, but that was just
not going to be happening.
Uh, Yeah, we didn't do anything.
I barely went outside.
AK: Yeah, we would take breaks, much to my dismay often and Evan and Fitz
would be like, oh, I gotta go get some vitamin D, I gotta see outside today.
And I'm like little Goblin.
Why.
We're playing Dungeons and Dragons.
Where are you going?
Uh
We never we never I Don't know how you feel about this.
We never hit a limit for me.
We never came close.
I could have played more and longer.
MB: I could play not no, uh, definitely did not hit a limit, our
bedtimes got later and later and later, and the last night we were
in a campaign being run by Fitz.
I could tell, I could tell when she said guys I'm so sorry to be this
person at one in the morning, but I think this is a good stopping place.
You could tell it was painful for her,
AK: She and I play Thursday nights with a group.
And that was something that she brought up last night as we started
our game, was that the only thing she hated was she hated that she
was DMing the final sessions.
She had to be the one to say, let's pack it up friends, and we
don't hold it against you Fitz, we understand the position you were in.
MB: It had to be done.
I only stopped the campaign that I was running because
I didn't have anything else.
I was like, literally ran everything that I could.
and,
AK: I often wonder if the way we are is people influences
the way that we are as players.
We've talked about that a little bit before in this where the veil is very
thin between person and character.
And I have to wonder if, as, a por at least portion, if not all of our party has
some level of, ADHD or other compulsion.
I wonder how that influences the choices we make in game.
I am proud of us though, in the new module, the new campaign that
we started, that we fairly swiftly and adeptly got to the point.
We followed Evan's don't bore us get to the chorus.
Is that experience or is that the new characters we rolled up?
I don't think either of us have an answer, I'm just, pondering at
MB: Yeah.
I don't know.
I don't know that I have an answer.
But who are we?
What have we become?
But I think you're completely correct.
I Think it's really different to play in a world that does not exist.
Y'all know about Exandria, y'all know everything about,
the Critical Role-everse.
And I know everything about Barovia because that's what we're playing.
And, I can shuttle in any number of these ADHD fueled subplots and side
quests, but in a world where in a world, in a world where, it is So 100% open.
Kind everything is a side quest and nothing is a side quest, right?
Because if y'all go down this street, I have to write that street instantly.
Like it says, if it doesn't exist, I have to just create it.
But the coolest thing, is that I did come in with this little skeleton
and I left with all of the stuff that you guys wrote in those three days.
AK: I know that I'm broken recording here.
It felt so real.
I couldn't get over how real.
Usually there's some grippage time needed when you start a new campaign,
when you dive into a new world.
and outta the gate there, it just, it felt like we'd been telling this story
all along, even though we were all very new to it and who we'd be playing in it.
And that's kudos to you, my friend, I'm curious.
I think, cuz I think I know I'm genuinely interested and I think,
I think others must be too.
can you just, uh, shed a little light on your process of how
you got started world building?
Cuz we talked about a bunch of different ways over the recent months.
So.
MB: Yeah, I'll start off by saying I am super noob.
I've never done this before.
And like you said, we did have a preliminary, test that
wasn't quite as successful.
I did hit a moment where.
It clicked, it was just, and I've heard about that about authors and I have
experienced that with songwriting.
Where you have to get to a point.
And once you get to that, it's like, oh, oh, that, and you're just like,
mind palacing all over the place.
And you are seeing all the connections, but It wasn't there for a long time.
EV and I had sat down and I said, Ooh, I want a very low magic world.
And we kind of came up with the idea of maybe this world, where
magic was outlawed for some reason.
And so some of these things were sticking and I was, I was happy with them.
But then I saw Lindsay and I sat down and watched the entirety of the TV show
Chernobyl, which is, which is about, of course, uh, one of the most horrific,
nuclear meltdowns explosions in history.
And for some reason, after Chernobyl and the concept of an incident, an accident
that happens that changes everyone's lives in a, two, three mile radius at least.
And not only their lives, if they survive, but like their lives and
their children's lives and their children's children's genetics.
Right.
Like, And I just went, Ugh, that's it?
This is Soviet based, and they're affected by this incident that happened.
And like, it just kind of all started clicking.
All these like basic ideas that Evan and I had came together finally,
because there was a real reason.
And, I am a disciple of Mike Shea, I'll say that a billion times on this podcast.
And, I think in the time that we started building Tataria, this world, this realm,
I had been reading Mike Shea's stuff and I'd been watching him on YouTube.
And for those of you don't know, he is The Lazy DM, a longtime
dungeon master and just theorist and role playing game enthusiast.
So I really took his, uh, theories, his, what do you call it?
Methodology to heart.
And I did.
Strong start, secrets and clues, location and and I was just really stuck to it.
The, the thing is every single person says don't build the whole thing.
Don't build every city.
Just don't.
Because number one, you can't.
Number two, that kind of leaves your players out a.
What if they want to do something.
And you did, and you do, right.
Like y'all invented just as much stuff, as I have.
And yeah, he's just like, just start and just circle out, circle
out, circle out, circle out.
So that's a long-winded answer.
Just go get all of Mike Shea's books and not just his, I mean,
I think a lot of world builders, say the same thing, right?
Just, steal from what you know, and love because you will make it your own.
Don't worry about stealing.
Don't worry about like I threw Chernobyl in there.
I threw some Stranger Things in there, who cares if it's a bunch
of tropes, people love tropes.
Yeah.
And why wouldn't you wanna play a game where you are up
against a trope that you love?
You know, the superhero does this, or this person is vanquished, or
this is why wouldn't you want that.
Everybody wants that.
And again, it will be yours.
It'll be your names.
If it's Yoda, it won't be a little green dude with like big ears.
It'll be the essence, the concept of Yoda, um, in your
own words in your own, you know,
AK: Take the parts you like and leave the rest.
Even my very first character that we've talked about in other episodes
Lavinia the one that died, well, I based her at a Greek tragedy.
So of course she met a tragic end, um, saving her friends in a very
heroic moment, as long as you're not too on the nose and too, too precious
about it, you're willing to let some things fly and let your imagination
soar, around that central concept.
I, I think that's a great, great, technique for Dungeon
Masters and players alike.
MB: And I'm so glad that I got there with this world.
And now I feel like there's no going back.
And I don't imagine that I'll have that initial issue, right.
I'm sure there will be some things that either fly or they don't fly.
I'm sure there's things about Exandria that, Mr.
Mercer is like, okay, that maybe that didn't work quite as well as
I wanted it to probably, maybe not, but I think we're past that hump, the
initial hump and it's just gonna be
AK: Well, and to tie it all to ADHD,
MB: All right.
AK: We've talked about before, how the hardest thing for us is often to start.
MB: Yeah, yes.
AK: it's again, that fear.
And I know you don't have the same fear of the blank page that I do,
but just getting the beast off the ground was daunting and now it is,
and things are clicking into place.
And I think that's a beautiful thing.
MB: Me, too.
AK: Yay.
MB: Yay.
AK: Um, well, I am so excited to be on this adventure with you both in your
party and as a member of this podcast.
MB: you
AK: So I'm glad we got to relive the magic today
MB: Me too.
I can't wait for the next game, but then yes, of course.
I can't wait for the next a trip and I can't wait for the next podcast, Allison.
Thank you.
AK: I feel the same.
MB: Yeah.
Okay.
until next time I love you.
All right, bye.