Appointment with Death === [00:00:00] Katie Marinello: Hello and welcome to Carried Far, far Away, a show where we are watching and reading everything Carrie Fisher did in her short life and storied career. My name is Katie Marinello Claire Fisher: I'm Claire Fisher, Katie Marinello: and today we are watching An Appointment with Death. Claire Fisher: Appointment with death. Shall I synopsize for the audience in 54 seconds Katie Marinello: Please. 'cause we have lots to discuss. Ready? Go. Claire Fisher: Carrie Fisher plays Nadine Boynton, the frustrated wife of Lennox Boynton, who like his three siblings, is eternally enthralled to his abusive stepmother, Emily. The elder Mrs. Boynton has blackmailed the family lawyer. Jefferson cope into burning the will that would've given her late husband's money directly to his children, leaving her in control of the purse strings. Complicating matters, Cope is in love with Nadine, who has been using him to make Lennox jealous in hopes of men. Motivating Lennox to finally grow up on a 1937 family trip to the Holy Land, Cope tags along and makes trouble. Raymond Boynton falls in love with Dr. [00:01:00] Sarah King, Carol Boynton befriends an archeologist, Ms. Quinton and an American British member of Parliament Lady Westholme discusses the upcoming partition of Palestine. Then Emily Boynton is murdered and everyone's a suspect. Katie Marinello: Oh, luckily Claire Fisher: Hercule Poirot is here to set things right. Katie Marinello: Oh, thank God. Claire Fisher: Yeah. As that's synopsis suggested, this is an adaptation of an Agatha Christie novel. Katie Marinello: Woo. One of Claire's favorite things in the world. Yes. So why don't you tell us a little bit about Ms. Christie. Claire Fisher: Dame Christie to you. Katie Marinello: I know as I said it, I was like, I bet she's a dame. I should have looked that up. Yes. Dame Christie. Tell me about Dame Christie. Dame Claire Fisher: Christie, the queen of crime. Wrote 66 mystery novels between 1920 and 1975, when Katie Marinello: even the number of novels is suspicious. Claire Fisher: I know. Right? And that's not even counting the Noncrime novels, which she published under a different pen name Mary Westmacott of which there are six. And then she also would do plays, radio [00:02:00] plays short stories novellas. TV adaptation, one TV adaptation ever. She didn't like that the BBC didn't pay as much as her other gigs, so she wouldn't mm-hmm. yeah. Fair Katie Marinello: enough, Claire Fisher: She would also write screenplays for her adaptations of her various works. She was quite prolific. Continued writing through both World Wars during which she also served as a pharmacist in both World Wars and yet somehow is most famous or infamous to the layperson for the time. She once disappeared for 11 days and never gave an explanation at the time or ever after. Katie Marinello: I don't think that's what she's infamous for. Claire Fisher: A lot of people, if you say Agatha Christie, they say, oh, the one who disappeared once. Katie Marinello: Because I think she's best known for her novels. Claire Fisher: Okay. I hope so too. Interestingly, although she used the name Christie professionally, that was her first husband's name. Her second husband, she [00:03:00] actually met at an archeological dig in Iraq, to which she had been invited by a dear friend of hers who was an archeologist who basically said, why don't you forget that jerk after her first husband had left her for another woman she came out to Iraq and they said, ah, yes, the young graduate assistant Max Mallowan will show you around. And within the day they were skinny dipping together. So, Katie Marinello: so this book is a work of nonfiction then. Claire Fisher: Because of his profession, they actually made annual trips to the Middle East pretty much for the, from then until the day they died. So like 50 years. And she actually became an archeologist in her own right, though. Everything was always published under his name. She was a specialist in ancient pottery. He said she knew more about ancient pottery than any other woman alive on earth. So this. Book Appointment With Death combined. Several things she really loved in 1937, which was when it was first serialized, such as archeological digs the Middle East and murder. Katie Marinello: [00:04:00] Yes. Claire Fisher: A lot of her books actually have some influence from her real world experience. Like from example, right after she met Max she got a telegram that her daughter was sick at boarding school in England, and he said, I'll get you a berth on the Orient Express right away to get you home fast. And then as she was taking the Orient Express through Eastern Europe, she wrote Murder on the Orient Express, Katie Marinello: And of course she liked this. She loved this character clearly. Claire Fisher: So Hercule Poirot, she had a, interestingly, it's in the introduction to the serialized version of Appointment with Death, that she gave her most famous analysis of how much he drove her nuts. But she also grew to love him. Yeah. She had invented Hercule Poirot and his sometime sidekicks as well as Sherlock Holmes and Dr. Watson exes in 1920 when she wrote the first book. Arthur Conan Doyle was still alive and still publishing Sherlock Holmes stories. But her complaint about Sherlock [00:05:00] Holmes was that it was not always a fair play mystery. Katie Marinello: Right. We couldn't always put all the clues together ourselves because Sherlock Holmes was so much smarter than everybody else. Claire Fisher: Exactly. And she set out to specifically to settle a bet of whether you could do a good detective story where all of the clues are in there. Written in such a way that they're less obvious. Now she got better at that as the years went on. 'cause the early books, sometimes you're kind of like, mm. you're hoping your reader's kind of an idiot Katie Marinello: little on the nose. Yeah. Yeah. I did get this one, but it did take me a minute. Now granted I wasn't reading it. It's a little different, I think when it's on the screen. And it's a little bit easier to distract the audience when there's a camera. Right. But, um, I got it eventually. Yeah. Claire Fisher: Yeah. Here's the thing. I read all of her novels in a row. Katie Marinello: Yes. Claire Fisher: And she would still fake me out a lot of the time. Yeah. And recently someone tried [00:06:00] to tell me that there's no way to tell, to figure out, And Then There Were None. And I said, oh, yes, there is. You just have to be a genius. Right, Katie Marinello: right. It's really, and again, we're talking about the original book ending, not the. Movie, or the play Claire Fisher: you need some very specific understanding of how to read between the lines, which means it will help if you are a British person born in the 1890s because the fact that one character is suffering from cancer, they don't say the word cancer. 'cause at the time people didn't say the word cancer. Katie Marinello: Right, right. Claire Fisher: And figuring out which character is terminally ill is how you figure out the solution to that novel. And so since we are 21st century Americans, sometimes it goes over our heads. Katie Marinello: Yeah. I would say so. Claire Fisher: So this book though, is a lot less famous than many of Christie's best ones. Katie Marinello: Okay. Claire Fisher: And so it was serialized 1937, publishes a novel, 1938. She adapted it for the stage in 1945 and she changed the killer. [00:07:00] Katie Marinello: Oh, Claire Fisher: interesting. So like even as soon as, even as soon as seven years later, she was kind of like, mm, this plot doesn't make as much sense as I thought it did. Right? Now she changed the killer also for the stage adaptation of 10 Little Indians. That's the, what they call it in the stage adaptation. And Then There Were None. So she would do this sometimes so that even if you had read the book, you would be surprised by the play. Katie Marinello: Interesting. Yeah. Claire Fisher: This movie, which came out April 15th, 1988, when the number one movie in America was Beetlejuice, is one of only two filmed adaptations of Appointment with Death, the other one being a 2008 episode of the TV show, Poirot Katie Marinello: okay. Claire Fisher: So it, like I said, a little less popular, I think. And Then There Were None has eight adaptations. Katie Marinello: Yeah. Claire Fisher: Counting the Soviet ones, right? Katie Marinello: Yeah. Claire Fisher: This one, nobody read this book and said I must make that a movie eight times. Katie Marinello: Yeah. Interesting. I wonder why that is. I guess we can discuss it. Claire Fisher: Yeah. Okay. [00:08:00] So it's reasonably faithful to the text, but it does delete one character and it changes a backstory of Jefferson Cope a little bit. He's not their family lawyer in the book. Katie Marinello: He's Claire Fisher: just a family friend. Katie Marinello: Okay. All right. Claire Fisher: But a couple of things to note. This is the Hercule Poirot played by Peter Ustinov Mm-hmm. the sixth and final time. Yes. That he played that role. Three times on TV and three times in theatrically released movies. But those movies are not in continuity with each other. Katie Marinello: Okay, Claire Fisher: so this isn't technically part of a series. Katie Marinello: Not in continuity. Meaning that he does not carry on what he's learned from previous movies or Claire Fisher: Some of them are period pieces, and some of them were setting updates, so Katie Marinello: oh, Claire Fisher: three of the adaptations take place in the thirties and three take place in the seventies and eighties. Katie Marinello: And he's like the same age. Claire Fisher: And he's Hercule Poirot yeah. Okay. Hercule Poirot did not age between 1920 and 1975. Because if he had aged [00:09:00] realistically, she would've had to stop writing the books. Katie Marinello: He'd be very dead. Yes. Yeah. Claire Fisher: Yeah. Katie Marinello: It's not like she chose a young. Encyclopedia Brown? Claire Fisher: No she doesn't age. Ms. Marple or Hercule Poirot, who are probably her two most famous detectives, but she did age Tommy and Tuppence Beresford in real time. They were introduced as like late teens, early twenties. And then one of the last books she wrote before her dementia became too serious has them as adult, as older folks playing with their grandkids, yeah. Katie Marinello: You can do that when you start with teenagers. Yeah. I guess that's why there's so many teenage detectives. Because really, there should not be teenage detectives. Claire Fisher: No. Teenagers are far too busy to be detectives Katie Marinello: in real life, zero teenage detectives, but on TV and in movies and in books. Thousands of teenage detectives. Claire Fisher: Can't you join the police force when you're 18? Katie Marinello: Sure. But I don't think you'd be promoted to detective. Claire Fisher: No, but you could be investigating crime scenes. Katie Marinello: Oh, that's terrifying. [00:10:00] Claire Fisher: Hey I, I was an EMT when I was 17, so Katie Marinello: Yeah. Somehow that seems less terrifying. You specifically at 17. Claire Fisher: Maybe some people who are a lot like me at 17 are good detectives. Katie Marinello: People who are like you at 17 don't become cops anyway. Yeah. Claire Fisher: Anyway one other thing I wanna note about the production of this movie, before we get into it too much, is that it does change the setting. Katie Marinello: Oh, okay. Oh, right. 'cause you said it took place in Petra. This does not take place in Petra. Claire Fisher: This takes place in Qumran Katie Marinello: Qumran is in Israel. Claire Fisher: Yeah. A far less photogenic place I might note. Katie Marinello: Interesting. Why do you think that is? Claire Fisher: Okay. I found out why that is. Katie Marinello: Okay. Claire Fisher: I went and I looked, so the Canon Group, which produced this film is an Israeli company. Katie Marinello: Oh dear. Claire Fisher: In 1987, Israel and Jordan had not yet signed a peace treaty. Katie Marinello: Okay. That makes sense. Claire Fisher: So you couldn't just go between Jerusalem and [00:11:00] Petra. Katie Marinello: Right. Claire Fisher: In the year that the movie is set, 1937, those were all the British Mandate of Palestine. and so the plot was that they all were on a tour group. Their ship landed in Jerusalem. They did Jerusalem for a few days, then they got in cars and drove to Petra. Right. And that was the next stop on the tour. That was actually impossible by 1987. So they changed the setting to Qumran but this introduces an anachronism. Katie Marinello: Oh. Claire Fisher: Qumran do you know anything about Qumran? Katie Marinello: No. Did we go there? Claire Fisher: We were near it. Qumran is where they found the Dead Sea Scrolls in 1949. Okay. Which means Katie Marinello: those we've seen, Claire Fisher: but it wasn't a tourist destination in 1937. Katie Marinello: I see. Claire Fisher: So by changing the setting Katie Marinello: Yeah. Claire Fisher: They actually introduced an anachronism, because this movie is explicitly set in May of 1937. Go. Katie Marinello: Yeah. They could not be more clear about that. Claire Fisher: They go to a coronation party for King George [00:12:00] the sixth. It's definitely May of 1937. Why is your tour group stopping at Qumran? Why didn't you go to Petra? Oh, wait. It's because of 1980s geopolitics. Katie Marinello: You mentioned in your recap that they talk about the what'd you call it? Segmenting of Palestine. Claire Fisher: The partitioning of Palestine. Katie Marinello: Partitioning of Palestine. And and boy is that uncomfortable in 2026, Claire Fisher: the British Empire was so good at partitioning their former colonies. I dunno what anybody's complaining Katie Marinello: about. Good at it, just draw some lines. Everybody will be fine with it. Claire Fisher: Draw a couple of lines. Having gotten an actual degree in like Middle Eastern studies, I, if we get me off on this train, we'll never stop. But it's very frustrating to a lot of people. In Israel, Palestine and in Jordan that they used to be all one country. Right. And you used to be allowed to do things like go between Jerusalem and Petra and you couldn't then for many years now you can, but it's like you have to go through one of the most heavily guarded land borders in the [00:13:00] world. Katie Marinello: Yeah. It's a lot of work, Claire Fisher: which I once infamously fell into because it's a river. Katie Marinello: Claire almost started an international incident. That is true. Claire Fisher: Yeah, it's true. I've Katie Marinello: seen numerous times in your time. So let's let's just set for those of you who don't know, because why would you so Claire studied abroad in Jordan in, oh my God, 2012. Claire Fisher: Yes. Katie Marinello: And then I flew out to where did I fly to Tel Aviv or Jerusalem? Claire Fisher: We met up in Jerusalem. Katie Marinello: Jerusalem. I flew into Jerusalem and we met up there after her semester was over, and we spent some time touring Israel. Really going to Jaffa, which they mentioned in this. Jerusalem, Bethlehem. , Claire Fisher: Galilee. Katie Marinello: Yeah. Basic. Really all the major Catholic highlights, if you will. Claire Fisher: And boy was our tour guide mad when we skipped Masada because Katie Marinello: we would not go to Masada because we wanted to get a massage and we've never, he would not forgive Claire Fisher: us about that. We wanted to go to the Dead Sea Spa [00:14:00] instead of the site of a mass suicide. How dare we. Katie Marinello: Yeah. What else do we say about Israel? Claire Fisher: Then we went to leave and we had booked with separate airlines. So we were two sisters traveling on separate planes, one of whom had a whole bunch of stamps from Arabic countries in her passport. Katie Marinello: Yes. Claire Fisher: And when they asked me what hotel I had stayed at in Jordan, I had to admit I had stayed with a family whose last name gave them away as having been Palestinian. And then I got strip searched in the Tel Aviv airport for nearly an hour. Katie Marinello: I'm so glad that you find this funny now 'cause you did not at the time. I Claire Fisher: did. Not at the time. But I, Katie Marinello: and frankly, in retrospect, I don't find it funny at all, but, Claire Fisher: I'm just thinking clearly I'm a major security threat, right? Like I, Katie Marinello: Claire is so much fun to be in the Middle East with actually I've now been there with her twice because we went to Egypt a couple of years ago and she is so blonde and speaks Arabic and it [00:15:00] confuses the heck out of native Arabic speakers. It's the best. Claire Fisher: Oh yeah. I we had a lot of fun. We got, Katie Marinello: she tried to get us into the Dome of the Rock that way. It did not work. Claire Fisher: All I said was, is it open for us to get in? They said, no. Katie Marinello: They were like, no, white lady? Go away. Claire Fisher: There are lots of restrictions on what you could do in that religious site. But Katie Marinello: anyway, as necess as, yes, and we respect Claire Fisher: that security reasons, valid security reasons. I just question whether the Israeli airport security really thought an American teenager who I think weighed 110 pounds soaking wet at the time and had been studying the language for six months, was really that big a threat. Or if they just enjoy making travelers uncomfortable. Katie Marinello: I think that's a question for lots of. Airport security Claire Fisher: because after they ripped my baggage apart in the middle of the terminal and strip searched me, then the only thing they said [00:16:00] was that I had to move my Turkish delight from my carry on to my pack, from my packed luggage to my carry-on. You, you couldn't have Turkish delight in your packed luggage because it might be a bomb. Katie Marinello: That's for a very specific reason, which is that they don't want you to betray your siblings for Turkish delight on the way over to America. You don't wanna sell your soul to the white witch, is what I'm saying. Claire Fisher: Yeah. I, it was vacuum packed Turkish delight. I was bringing it home from my boyfriend. Okay. Katie Marinello: Yeah. But as the sibling you would've sold out for. And I'm very happy that they did that. Claire Fisher: But as it happens, you were the sibling watching from behind the security cordon as I got undressed basically. Katie Marinello: Yeah. Super fun. When the security guard comes over. Asked to see your passport and then just walks away with it. Claire Fisher: Because Katie Marinello: they didn't Claire Fisher: believe we were sisters. Katie Marinello: Then they take my sister into a back room and I can't go with her because I'm not even allowed to check in yet because my flight was so much later.[00:17:00] So yeah, that was Claire Fisher: so being separated from my luggage, my sister and my passport and my clothing was all really comfortable for me. Katie Marinello: And then we were supposed to have breakfast together, but they escorted you to your gate. Claire Fisher: I was escorted. Katie Marinello: Yeah, that was okay. So Claire Fisher: we digressed. It is now Katie Marinello: significantly. There are good and bad reasons why Israeli security is so tight. There are mostly bad reasons. Let's not say why the partition has happened. No, I think we do have to because it is 2026. I don't wanna act like we Claire Fisher: all right, Katie Marinello: we went to Israel on some sort of birthright situation. We acknowledge the genocide of Palestine and we do not support the government of Israel. Claire Fisher: How could we, they took away my Turkish delight. Katie Marinello: So we were pretty mad then and we're more mad now. Claire Fisher: Yeah. We get more mad at Israel all the time. No, when I was in Jordan, the family that I stayed with was a family [00:18:00] that was forced from their homes. Right. By the 1967 war. It definitely, you can't be in Jordan for very long and be in American without several people asking you. So why does Israel still exist and why does the US still support them? And those are valid questions, but not ones I was equipped to answer. Yeah. However, I will say Petra's, way more photogenic than Qumran mm-hmm. It's a real shame that they couldn't set this movie. At the location that is mentioned in the book. Katie Marinello: Absolutely. All right. So let's talk about the movie though. 'cause actually finally, I think we have a decent movie to discuss. Claire Fisher: This is actually like a movie. It has a plot, it has a director, it has a cast. Katie Marinello: It has a cast. Oh my God. Other than Carrie Fisher, do you know who the name that popped out at me was Claire Fisher: Haley Mills. Katie Marinello: Haley Mills. 'cause we were such Hailey Mills heads at the time for a time when we were younger. Parent Claire Fisher: trap that darn cat. Katie Marinello: Yes. Yeah. So she plays Miss Quinton. So she's the archeologist, kind of, I know she's an archeologist, but she seems to not spend a lot of time actually at the archeological site [00:19:00] during the movie. She like goes later to see what they found during the day. So anyway so Haley Mills, from an acting family daughter of Sir John Mills and Mary Haley Bell and her sister's also an actress. She got her start in the British crime drama film, Tiger Bay, opposite her father, a Disney producer, saw her in that and had her cast in Pollyanna. One critic said she was the last actress who signed on to a studio and they created films for her. So she. In Pollyanna in 1960, we watched Pollyanna ad nauseum as children. And she got the Academy Juvenile Award for that role. She was actually the last person to get that for, I was gonna Claire Fisher: say I think she was the last one. Yeah. Katie Marinello: Yeah. So they, it started with Shirley Temple right. And ended with Hailey Mills. She played the original twins in the Parent Trap, 1961, Lindsay Lohan owes her entire career to Hailey Mills. We watched that movie a lot as well. And [00:20:00] while many from our generation are defined by The Parent Trap, and I do think that the 1998 version is amazing. We Were OGs, Claire Fisher: we Katie Marinello: liked Claire Fisher: it before it was cool. Katie Marinello: Yeah, exactly. Her duet with herself, the Let's Get Together. Yeah, yeah, Yeah. Went to number eight on the billboard Claire Fisher: really. Katie Marinello: And then the other one that you mentioned, That Darn Cat was her last one. So she did six movies with Disney. That was her last one, That Darn Cat. Then she, transitioned into more adult roles. Nothing quite as, memorable or like culturally impactful as her childhood films. She did come and mostly in the uk, she came back to the US in 2024 for the M Knight Shymalan Psychological thriller Trap. And apparently that was notable because it was her first role in a mainstream American film in nearly 60 years. And this is what I really need to talk to you about. In the 1980s, she reprised her roles as. As Sharon and Susan [00:21:00] for a Trio of Parent Trap television films. The Parent Trap two, the Parent Trap three, and the Parent Trap Hawaiian Honeymoon. How are we not aware of this? Claire Fisher: I found out about them like five years ago and asked you if you had been keeping them from me. Katie Marinello: Oh apparently, yes. I've been keeping them for myself too. How have we not watched these? Claire Fisher: I don't know. We're not doing a Hailey Mills podcast, are we? Katie Marinello: We're not, but I think we might be Claire Fisher: eventually. Katie Marinello: we, If we ever need a Patreon, which we're watching those movies anyway. Claire Fisher: Okay. Katie Marinello: Yes. So that's Hailey Mills. Claire Fisher: Who else jumped out at me was obviously Peter Ustinov ak Katie Marinello: Yes. Claire Fisher: The guy from Logan's Run who lives in the Library of Congress with all of the cats. Katie Marinello: Ooh, I like that. Claire Fisher: Which what I said to Bryan when I was trying to get him to watch this movie with me, he was like, what is Katie Marinello: Logan's run? Of Claire Fisher: post-apocalyptic dystopian sci-fi movie from 1975 starring Michael York. When Michael York and his date escape the sealed city where they've been told is the last [00:22:00] vestige of civilization. They find a old guy. Living in the Library of Congress, reciting the Book of Practical Cats by TS Elliot. Another thing that's close to our heart. Katie Marinello: Oh my God. Okay. No more digressions. Anyways. Yes, so he was a British actor and humanitarian. He won Academy Awards for best supporting actor for his roles in Spartacus and Topkapi. And he won a Golden Globe Award for best supporting actor for the Quo Vadisotis. He set his Oscar and Gar Golden Globe statues up on his desk as if they were playing Tennis. Claire Fisher: Aw. Katie Marinello: Because he loves tennis and apparently also ocean yachting. He also won three Emmys one Grammy and was nominated for two Tony Awards, so almost to the egot. And as you mentioned, he played this character in five other movies prior to this. Claire Fisher: The yachting and the tennis, tell me, you're an upper class British guy, right? Katie Marinello: Did I say, did I mention He was, sir Peter Ustinov Claire Fisher: so his [00:23:00] grandfather actually founded the hotel in Israel where they filmed early scenes for this movie. Katie Marinello: Oh, damn. Claire Fisher: Yeah. Katie Marinello: Yeah. So Claire Fisher: He was an old family. Katie Marinello: So Lauren Bacall also jumped outto me, though it was interesting because once I read her di biography, ne never seen any of her films. However, she was named the 20th greatest Female Star of Classic Hollywood by the American Film Institute. So she's just a name out there. She was also one of the one of the stars of Golden Hollywood who lived the longest. So she was just around for a long time. She got her start at age 19 in To Have and Have Not, opposite Humphrey Bogart, who she then married becoming his fourth and final wife. Claire Fisher: The age gap between them, by the way, 23 years. Katie Marinello: Yep. Hey, that's nothing in Hollywood. And listen, she was with him till he died. And according to the Wikipedia on this film, she was of Jewish descent and so [00:24:00] she wanted to be in this film so that she could travel to Israel for the first time. Claire Fisher: Lauren Bacall is playing Lady Westholme. Loosely based according to Agatha Christie on a somewhat goofy tourist she met in Iraq, but rather obviously based on Lady Nancy Astor who was then a member of Parliament she had been an American who married a British member of Parliament, member of the House of Lords specifically. Which means his title was hereditary at the time. And when he passed away, she became a member of Parliament. So she was a US born member of the British Parliament. That's Lady West Holmes's backstory. Yeah. And that's obviously meant to be a Lady Astor shout out Katie Marinello: and of course there's this cute little parallel 'cause they're talking about Wallis Simpson. Obviously causing the abdication of the king, and that's why they're at the coronation. But Lady Westholme has a funny line where she's like, I really thought an American would be able to get herself onto the throne, or something like that. I really thought she'd be more clever [00:25:00] than that. Lady Westholme: I'm very disappointed I would've expected an American woman to navigate skillfully onto the throne. Claire Fisher: The stacked cast is the best thing about this movie. I'm gonna say that up front. Katie Marinello: Really? You didn't like it? I Claire Fisher: didn't think it was a very good adaptation of Katie Marinello: interesting. Claire Fisher: Of the novel. Katie Marinello: See, this is an argument against reading. 'cause I didn't read the book. So Claire Fisher: you liked it. Okay. Okay. Katie Marinello: I think I enjoyed it for what it was. I found Poirot a little theatrical. He literally says at one point we must find a dramatic place to reveal the killer. And I'm like, really? Claire Fisher: And then Colonel Carberry, John Guilgud actually says, this is like a scene from a play. Katie Marinello: Yes. Yes. So that's weird. It's like early lamp shading. Claire Fisher: Yeah. No, it's not that early. 'cause they'd been lamp shading that about Poirot for 60 years by the time this came out. Katie Marinello: Fair enough. There's also the point where he says, I overheard two people [00:26:00] plotting the murder. As somebody says to him, why are you always in the place where, why are you always in the right position to. overhear plots and threats it's that is a good question. . Last lamp shading I'll mention, and then we should probably talk about, the plot of the movie. Yeah. He gets off the boat in Jerusalem and they say what brings you here? And he says, Col. Carbury: What on Earth brought you out here, old chap? Hercule Poirot: Oh, I don't know. A nose for murder, perhaps. Col. Carbury: Murder. Where? Hercule Poirot: Oh no, it hasn't happened yet. Katie Marinello: That is suspicious. Why weren't they looking at him as the murderer? ' Claire Fisher: cause this is just how Poirot does. Everywhere he goes, there's a murder. Yeah. Yeah. All right. To talk a little bit about the characters, the Boynton family. Christie has said she based them on a family that was on her cruise up the Nile. And when she wrote Death on the Nile, she wanted to include them, [00:27:00] but they didn't fit. 'cause Death on the Nile has a long list of characters anyway. Yeah. So she then gave them their whole book just about this family where the mother is so unpleasant and abusive that all of the children, no matter how old they are, are constantly unable to say no to her, stand up to her, do anything. The book is really a psychological drama. The character they cut is a psychologist. Katie Marinello: Oh, Claire Fisher: interesting. Who is on the tour group with them and looks over and just thinks one of those kids is gonna kill that mother. Right. Katie Marinello: Yeah. It's funny to me that, and I think that it came through to me in the movie that. Her death comes as a surprise to absolutely nobody. Claire Fisher: Absolutely nobody. Yeah. Katie Marinello: Like everybody is obviously everybody wanted her dead. We just have to figure out who killed her. Claire Fisher: What Poirot over overhears is Raymond Boynton, the older Boynton son, and Carol Boynton the daughter saying to each other, don't you understand she's got to be killed? Raymond Boynton: She [00:28:00] fixed the will. We are trapped. You do see, don't you? She's got to be killed. Carol Boynton: She's not even our mother. Claire Fisher: They're so at wit's end that they're openly discussing how they're going to assassinate their stepmother. Katie Marinello: So let's talk motive. So the. Movie opens in New Jersey. I don't know if the book takes place in New Jersey, but I have to mention it Every time New Jersey is mentioned, Claire Fisher: Jersey girls, Katie Marinello: woo. Claire Fisher: The very first line of the novel is, don't you see? She's got to be killed. Katie Marinello: Oh, interesting. So putting that's not the case here. Claire Fisher: Yeah. So by putting all the reasons why she needs to be killed in front of the audience, before Poirot overhears that line, the audience is sympathetic rather than shocked. Right. So I thought that was a strange decision, but okay. Katie Marinello: Yeah. Claire Fisher: It Katie Marinello: opens with, so this it starts with her in the office of her lawyer, Mr. Cope, and he's saying the original Will said that all of the husband's money was gonna go to her and then be divided between the children upon her [00:29:00] death. But that just a few days before he died, he created a second will, which just split all the money. Five ways right. Between the four children and her, which would give them each $200,000, which in today's money is Claire Fisher: It would be like 4.4 million today. . Katie Marinello: Unacceptable. Absolutely unacceptable for her to only have $200,000 to live on. So she convinces him to, Claire Fisher: she doesn't convince Katie Marinello: you Claire Fisher: blackmail Katie Marinello: him. Right? She convi. I was gonna explain how she convinced him. She convinces him to. Burn the second will because she used to be a warden, Claire Fisher: a prison wardress. Katie Marinello: wardress, yeah. At a woman's prison. And she had some evidence of his, a crime that he committed. Claire Fisher: Right. One of his accomplices had ended up in the prison. Yeah. And Katie Marinello: she'd just been sitting on that for however long she was married to this [00:30:00] man Claire Fisher: until she needed to blackmail the lawyer she was waiting for. For him. Yeah. So this is where, like I said in the book, he's not the lawyer, he is just an old friend. This actually does incorporate him more seriously into the plot, but Yeah. Because then she announces that she's decided they're all gonna go to Europe and the Holy Land. Yep. Keep lots of stock footage, but he tags along. The lawyer just shows up in Trieste, Italy. Being like, Hey, I joined your tour group for the holy land. And he's obviously there to try to talk her out of. Abusing him this way, like he's trying Katie Marinello: or he's there to pursue. Nadine. Claire Fisher: Yes. It's revealed He has more than one motive. Yes. He's there to try to talk to Emily. Katie Marinello: It's revealed immediately. There's not a lot of intrigue around it. So they're on top of some beautiful building in Italy. All of the buildings in Italy are beautiful. One of the sisters is looking through a telescope. She says, oh, Mr. Cope's down there. Which if you just saw someone from home in Italy, [00:31:00] especially in those days when you couldn't text them to say they were coming. I think you'd have a bigger reaction, but whatever. So Nadine goes, oh, I'm gonna go see him. She runs downstairs and starts making out with him in the middle of the road. She knows that her sister-in-law is looking through the telescope. They're not trying to hide this affair. Claire Fisher: So this tells us two things. Cope and Nadine Boynton have been having an affair and Nadine wants her husband to find out. Katie Marinello: Ah, yeah. Because Claire Fisher: she's hoping her husband will realize that if he doesn't break free of his mother, she's never gonna respect him again. Katie Marinello: Yeah. Claire Fisher: This is not a good way to Katie Marinello: communicate stepmother. They love to switch back and forth between mother and stepmother. Claire Fisher: Yeah. It's implied. She raised them all. So Katie Marinello: in actuality, three of them are the husband's and then one is hers. And it's not clear if it's hers with the husband, but it doesn't really matter. Claire Fisher: No, it's hers with the husband. Yeah. Katie Marinello: Yeah. Claire Fisher: So the prime suspects here are the abused family and the blackmailed lawyer. Jefferson cope, the blackmailed lawyer who is also having an affair with her daughter-in-law shows up in Trieste and then like during the cruise from Trieste to Jaffa, she tries to poison [00:32:00] him, but it is unsuccessful. Yeah. Then her. Stepchildren, Raymond Carroll and Lennox. Katie Marinello: Yep. Claire Fisher: Lennox's wife, Nadine, who's also Ms. Emily Boynton's nurse. And therefore gives her heart medication, which is Being the 1930s digitalis drops in her water. Right. Katie Marinello: Which is labeled poison. Claire Fisher: It has an overdose warning on it. Yeah. What, yeah. Katie Marinello: What Claire Fisher: today we would say, use as directed in those days just said poison on it. Right. Katie Marinello: Just poison and not Yeah. That's the biggest and which makes sense, but Yeah. Claire Fisher: And then the youngest daughter is Ginevra she's not this, Katie Marinello: she's Sir Not Appearing in this Film. Claire Fisher: Yeah. She's a bigger role in the book because it's shown that she's actually losing her grip on reality under her mother's psychological abuse. Katie Marinello: Oh, interesting. Right. Yeah. Claire Fisher: Which makes Katie Marinello: her, and this one, she's just being told to go to bed all the time. Her mother's always like the go to bed, you're tired, go to bed. And she's I'm not tired. You're tired. Go to bed. Claire Fisher: Yeah. Katie Marinello: They don't even really let him address her as a potential suspect when they're having their big reveal, they're like, oh, enough [00:33:00] of this. It couldn't possibly be her. I think it could possibly be her. Claire Fisher: So these are the main witnesses to the murder. They're also the main suspects in the murder, but a few other people on the same tour group are also introduced as potential suspects and witnesses. Would you like to take us through, Katie Marinello: First of all, we don't meet Poirot until we're on the cruise to Jaffa, right? Yeah. I know I'm saying his name wrong. I'm gonna say it's wrong. Sorry guys. And he's very seasick, which is funny. And he runs into an acquaintance of his, which is Dr. King, right? Not that one. Claire Fisher: Dr. Sarah King. Katie Marinello: Dr. Sarah King. Who is, Claire Fisher: who's played by, Katie Marinello: yes. Claire Fisher: Oh wait, we forgot to even tell you who plays. Emily Boynton, the victim. Katie Marinello: Oh yeah. So Emily Boynton is Piper Laurie. She was an American actress known for her roles in the Hustler, Carrie and Children of a Lesser God. And for the mini series, the Thornbirds. Her breakout role was actually in Louisa with Ronald Reagan, [00:34:00] whom she dated briefly before he married Nancy Reagan. In her autobiography, she claimed that she lost her virginity to him. That just seems important to mention. She was nominated for Oscars for best actress in the Hustler and best supporting actress in Carrie and Children of Lesser Her God. So she plays an equally unlikable mother in Carrie. Claire Fisher: Okay. I guess that, Katie Marinello: I don't know about the other ones, but Claire Fisher: psychologically abusive parent is her Katie Marinello: thing. Yeah, it's her thing. It seems. Claire Fisher: So then . Dr. Sarah King Katie Marinello: Dr. Sarah King, played by Jenny Seagrove. She first came to attention playing the lead in a television dramatization of Barbara Taylor Bradford's Woman of Substance and the film A Local Hero. She starred an Appointment with Death, obviously, and in The Guardian in 1990, and she's well known for her role in the character of Jill Mills in the long running BBC Drama, Judge John Deed. We didn't talk about Jefferson Cope either, right? Claire Fisher: Oh, I guess we skipped that actor too. Katie Marinello: Yeah, we skipped all of them. So I'll just go very quickly. There's not a lot about most of them. Jefferson Cope was paid by David Soul. He [00:35:00] was active for five decades. Most famously for playing Hutch in Starsky and Hutch from 1975 to 1979. Also played Joshua Bolt on Here Come the Brides lead actor in the 1979 American TV movie Salem's Lot. He also was a singer and he actually started on the Merv Griffin Show as the Covered Man. So he would show up in a mask and sing. So I guess he was the first masked singer. He explained My name is David Soul and I want to be known for my music, which I feel like is something you can only say when you take your mask off. You look like David Soul. Claire Fisher: I'll mention one more thing about David Soul. He had recently gotten sober when he was cast in this, and so he and Carrie were each other's support network when they were traveling to film this movie. Katie Marinello: And then Lennox Boynton is Nicholas Guest very. Short bio as far as film goes. But he works primarily as a voice actor. Now Valerie Richards plays Carol Boynton. [00:36:00] She has no Wikipedia page, and her IMDB page only says that she's known for Appointment with Death, Jailbird Rock and the Kiss, which came out in 2008. So I'm not sure what she was doing between 1985 and 2008. Raymond Boynton is played by John Turleski. He is mostly known as a director now especially TV director. He's directed episodes of Boston Legal, Grey's Anatomy Army Wives, Gossip Girl, Castle, Agents of Shield, How to Get Away With Murder, et cetera, et cetera. And then Ginevra is played by Amber Besser, who also has no wikipedia page, but her IMDb page says that she found fame when she was 11 years old when she was in Annie on the West End. And then by the age of 16 she'd been the Cover Girl and Girl Magazine modeled on the cover of Black Laces Christmas album and appeared in a stage tour of the play Children, Children, and has done a lot of commercials since then. But she married a dentist. Seems like she's got [00:37:00] a perfectly fine not. Acting life. Yeah. Anyway they're on the boat. There's a big confrontation between Jefferson Cope and Emily Boynton. Claire Fisher: Yeah. Katie Marinello: Because she knows about the affair. Apparently everybody knows about the affair except Lennox Claire Fisher: well, Nadine has been trying to use it Katie Marinello: to, he's been pretty clear. Yeah. And she's get out of their life. Get away from us when we get to Jerusalem, you need to go away. And he says, I'm gonna tell them about the. will. And she completely does a 180. Oh no, why don't you come have dinner with us tonight? We're old friends. And then she tries to poison him with her heart medication. But right at that moment, Lennox punches him in the face because he went back to the hotel room to get something for Nadine and he found a , cigarette case that Lennox gave to Nadine that said may we be together forever. Again, nobody is that Claire Fisher: Jefferson gave Katie Marinello: to, sorry. Jefferson gave to Nadine. Again, nobody is trying to hide this affair. Claire Fisher: So it's [00:38:00] only 'cause he gets punched at that exact moment that he spills the champagne. Yeah. Katie Marinello: And Claire Fisher: Emily Boynton is unable to kill Jefferson cope. But this is a clue. Katie Marinello: Yes. Claire Fisher: She doesn't try again. Katie Marinello: Right? Claire Fisher: Because something happens that distracts her. And it's not clear to the audience until Katie Marinello: what it is that Claire Fisher: distracts the very end of the movie why she suddenly gives up on the idea of killing Jefferson Cope. Katie Marinello: Right. And it's also unclear to me as a viewer of the movie, why there were gigantic cockroaches right in that spot in the middle of the dining room that then drink the champagne and dye. Claire Fisher: Yeah. That, that one's a riddle for the ages. I have no idea why you would have so many cockroaches Katie Marinello: they were so big. Claire Fisher: There are quite large insects in, the Middle East. Katie Marinello: Yeah. But to be on a very nice. cruise like that. And only in the middle of the dance floor, like it's not, or in the middle of the dining room. It's not like they're commenting on how many bugs there are elsewhere. And there's three huge ones. Anyway, it's not that big of a deal. I was [00:39:00] just very confused by it. Claire Fisher: By the time they dock in Jaffa. Everybody has seen that Emily Boynton is absolutely ruining . her children, just the worst that she bosses them around. That she is, it's actually a little bit underplayed, but like for everybody to be hopping and, jumping every time she says jump. Like she, this is years of psychological abuse that she's heaped on this family. Katie Marinello: Yeah. Claire Fisher: And Dr. King and Raymond start trying to flirt with each other and she just won't have it because she doesn't like anybody being in her family's orbit who isn't her. And so when, Katie Marinello: it's interesting, it makes me wonder how Nadine happened. Nadine and Lennox happened except that we know that Nadine was already employed by her. Claire Fisher: Yeah. Katie Marinello: Like at first I was like how did she let any of her kids get married? But that's why it's because she was already like under, Nadine was already under her control, so she felt like she could continue to control them. Claire Fisher: Clue. This is actually a clue. She let Lennox marry Nadine on the condition that they both live with [00:40:00] her. Katie Marinello: Right. Claire Fisher: So that she could have a fresh victim. This is a woman who lives to find you Katie Marinello: needed some extra. Yeah, she needed some extra blood. Claire Fisher: And since Nadine was of a lower social station, had originally been employed as a trainee nurse and would be marrying into money without any of her own, Mrs. Boynton just knew she could drive Nadine crazy, the way she'd driven everyone else crazy. Katie Marinello: And she does seem to at first when I didn't know about the nurse thing, I was like, man, she is really hard on her daughter-in-law above anyone else. She's always saying, get my pills, get my this. Of course it's because she's the nurse, but also because she's a terrible person. This woman has zero redeemable qualities. Yeah. It's truly amazing. I don't know anyone. I don't know that I've ever seen a murder mystery where when the person dies, you're like, yeah, all right. Claire Fisher: Yeah. Poirot actually says Hercule Poirot: You know, when someone is hated as much as Mrs. Boynton was a sudden death by natural causes seems a little too convenient. Claire Fisher: [00:41:00] Yeah. In the hotel in Jerusalem where they're staying while they do holy land tours and things, . American Colony Hotel is the name of the place, I think. Katie Marinello: Sure. Claire Fisher: They filmed on the actual location. Dr. King finally figures someone has to call this woman out, right? Yes. And just goes up to her and just says, why are you such a bitch? Effectively? Right. And she Katie Marinello: calls it like a troll or something. Yeah, Claire Fisher: an ogre. I think. Katie Marinello: An ogre. Yeah. Dr. Sarah King: Mrs. Boynton, you have tried to prevent your son and daughter from making friends with me. Well, it's just pathetic, rather ludicrous. Why be an ogre? You could be kind if you tried. Emily Boynton: I never forget. Remember that. I never forget anything. Not an action. Not a name, not a face. Claire Fisher: And then they go to Qumran. Katie Marinello: Yep. [00:42:00] Claire Fisher: Separately though. 'cause Jefferson Cope accepted Ms. Quinton's invitation to go to Qumran the day before. Katie Marinello: Before therefore making Meine jealous. Claire Fisher: Yeah. Okay. The person you were using to make your husband jealous is now making you jealous. Please look at your life and your choices, but okay. Right. And then they went missing from Qumran. It turns out they actually just went. Camping in the next valley. Uhhuh. Katie Marinello: Uhhuh. Yeah. It was very confusing. It was like, oh no, they've both gone missing and we didn't even notice. And then it's oh no, we were just over here with the Arabs. Claire Fisher: Colonel Carbury who's like the local law enforcement, 'cause again, he is the British military and this was a British military mandate Katie Marinello: one that knows P Perot from previous. Claire Fisher: He actually knows Poirot because he is friends with Colonel Race, a recurring character from number of novels including Death on the Nile. Katie Marinello: Got it. Claire Fisher: So he's played by John Gilgud. Who we didn't mention, but who actually famously said that this character was like his least [00:43:00] favorite ever. And he has 200 credits. Katie Marinello: I wonder why, Claire Fisher: Actually every single actor involved in making this wound up hating the director. And the script and oh, we didn't talk Katie Marinello: about the director. Claire Fisher: This is a famously troubled background to this movie. Yeah yeah. The director is let's just get his name in here. Michael Winner Katie Marinello: More like Michael Loser. Claire Fisher: The production company was going bankrupt. It actually did go bankrupt in 1990. It had scraped together some cash to do a period piece. Agatha Christie hoping it would be what saved their studio. But they kept cutting the budget over and over to the point that Peter Ustinov threaten to walk because they were gonna take away part of his salary. And Michael Winter ended up having to do a whole movie on basically what the catering budget should have been for like Interesting. A movie with location shoots and period costumes he was working on. And Katie Marinello: Lauren Bacall! Claire Fisher: Yeah. Katie Marinello: And Hayley Mills! Claire Fisher: Exactly with this amazing cast. And he was also struggling a little [00:44:00] bit politically because the studio insisted on inserting some dialogue about the upcoming partition of Palestine and making some of the Arab characters a little bit woo minority, Katie Marinello: right? Yes. There was definitely a lot of that. Yeah. Claire Fisher: Which isn't not something Agatha Christie would do, she did do that sometimes in her novels, but in 1987 just came across as a little unnecessary. Katie Marinello: Right. Claire Fisher: So Michael Winter was actually pushing back against and saying we should try to make this a more fair and balanced movie. So like the, by the end of the shoot the director was feuding with the producers. The producers were cutting the budgets, the actors had been out in the Israeli heat and hated the director. And nobody liked this movie by the time it was finished. Katie Marinello: I will say Claire and I spent a week in Israel and we only fought once and it was over water. We understood a lot about geopolitics in that moment. Yeah. It's hot. It's really hot and it's even hotter in Egypt. But anyway, Claire Fisher: We also found some interesting facts about how quickly you get [00:45:00] sunburnt in the desert, didn't we? Katie? Katie Marinello: We're not talking about that. Anyway, Claire Fisher: so everybody was a little overheated and a little unhappy by the end of this movie. Katie Marinello: Yes. Understandably. I guess they didn't get to get on an air conditioned bus afterwards in 1937. They would not have been able to get on an air conditioned bus afterwards. Claire Fisher: So separately, everybody's going to Qumran. Yes. Colonel Carberry is taking Poirot to Qumran in case something has happened to Ms. Quinton or Mr. Cope. Katie Marinello: Right. So that's the mystery that we think we're solving. Claire Fisher: Lady Westholme just invites herself into going in Poirot's car. 'cause she thinks it's nicer than the car that the tour group is getting. Katie Marinello: Yes. Oh, that's so nice of you to invite me. Yeah. She's insufferable as well. Claire Fisher: And then the Boyntons are coming in the regular tour bus. So everybody's headed, to Qumran. Which by the way, not as photogenic as Petra. Katie Marinello: Yes. You've mentioned, apparently this is the biggest consequence of the 1967 war Claire Fisher: is that they have to go to a really ugly, we Katie Marinello: to go really ugly. Archeologicadigdi It's really [00:46:00] depressing. Claire Fisher: Okay. Mrs. Boynton orders her family to take a walk. Everybody just go take a walk. I know I'm slowing you down. Katie Marinello: She sends everybody on a walk separately. Like it's like this. She Claire Fisher: tells Ginevra to go Katie Marinello: to bed, Claire Fisher: have a nap, and Raymond, take Dr. King and have a walk. I know you two wants to get to know each other, right? Katie Marinello: Whoa, okay. Claire Fisher: Why the Katie Marinello: change of heart? Claire Fisher: Cope tells Nadine, oh,, the hills are lovely. I've been there before with Miss Quinton that mm-hmm. Katie Marinello: So the three of them. Claire Fisher: And then, Katie Marinello: like she, she and Lennox and Cope go up to the hills together. Yes. Claire Fisher: Raymond and Dr. King go for a walk. Carol and Ms. Quinton go for a walk. Ms. Quinton's gonna show Carol some of the excavations. Yes. Lady Westholme says, oh I'll take my walk later. I have to look at some paperwork for these meetings I've got. Katie Marinello: Yes. Claire Fisher: And when people come back for dinner, wouldn't you know it? Emily Boyton is dead, Katie Marinello: dun dun, Claire Fisher: dun Katie Marinello: Dun. But not really. 'cause everybody's fine with it. Claire Fisher: Yeah. Katie Marinello: Dr. King examines her, determines that the cause of death [00:47:00] is heart failure. And that's when Poirot says his, eh, that's not possible, right? Because she's so well hated. Hercule Poirot: When someone is hated as much as Mrs. Boynton was a sudden death by natural causes seems a little too convenient. Claire Fisher: Yeah. I did also like one line in here where Lady Westholme is looking through all the paperwork about the Partition of Palestine. She says, maybe we should have left it to the Turks. Yes, actually storming in here and making this place a British mandate was an unforced error. You didn't have to be here at all. You, Katie Marinello: but isn't that just the story of the British Empire? You didn't have to be here at all. Claire Fisher: Could be back in London and the Turks could be ruling a unified nation. Katie Marinello: Why are you spending so much time searching for. Spices that you never use in your food. Claire Fisher: Exactly. Anyway. See Lawrence of Arabia for more on why colonialism is bad. Katie Marinello: Turn on the news. Don't turn on the news. Claire Fisher: Don't turn on the [00:48:00] news. It's very bad for you. Listen to our podcast instead. From here on in, this is a whodunit. But it is a murder mystery in which everyone is lying. Right. And so a lot of the upcoming scenes are actually, we could go through them, but a lot, most of them mean nothing at all actually. Because they all, because they only serve to determine that everyone is lying. And the reason we know that everyone's lying is that people keep insisting they have spoken to Mrs. Boynton after the point in time where she would've already been dead, Katie Marinello: according to Dr. King's determined time of death. Yes. Which they're treating is like gospel and like she didn't have a lab. No. And she was, and it's established early on that she's just outta med school. So saying that it had to be like five o'clock when she died was a little, I felt strained credulity, but whatever. It's 1937. Claire Fisher: Yeah. Yeah. And so everyone's a suspect. Oh, there's one more suspect. His name is Mahmood. He's the one who went to wake Katie Marinello: her up Claire Fisher: for dinner and found [00:49:00] her dead. Katie Marinello: Yes. Again, Sir, Not Appearing in this Film Claire Fisher: at an hour in Poirot has an excellent crack at the British Empire. Hercule Poirot: I'll report you at dinner. Col. Carbury: What fun. Hercule Poirot: Fun. Everything's always fun for you. English, the sun will never set on your games. Well, I hope it will always be so. Although I have my doubts. Claire Fisher: Poirot goes through questioning everybody and everybody's lying, right? And then someone calls to Poirot in the dark and says, oh, can you meet me at the back door of the hotel tomorrow at 10? I need to tell you something. Katie Marinello: Yes. Claire Fisher: This is not at all how you make a statement to a detective, but okay. Katie Marinello: No, just tell him right now. Tell him now! Tell him now! Claire Fisher: Then, Poirot asks a British officer, Hey, can you look up this person from America? He gives her a piece of paper. He says, we need a dramatic location for our final meeting tomorrow. You mentioned that already. Katie Marinello: Yes. Claire Fisher: And then he also has an exchange with Ms. Quinton when he says, oh my God, look up there. It's the biggest spider I've ever seen. And [00:50:00] she says, oh yeah, but I'm not scared of spiders. Clue. Yes. Ms. Quinton is very suggestible. Katie Marinello: Yes. Oh, what was the other thing I wanted to say? Oh, that they have given him only 48 hours to solve this because they can't keep all these tourists from actually going onto their next destination. Any longer than that. They're like, oh, they'll get tired of day trips eventually. Claire Fisher: And they're also, they're US citizens. So like the British mandatory. Authorities holding them is putting them Katie Marinello: They're, but they're not like holding them right. They're like trying to keep them in one spot. Right? And they're like, we can only do that under the pretext of tourism for so long. Claire Fisher: So then the next day, the person who comes to meet Poirot at the back door apparently sees someone behind Poirot, runs away in a panic. Dr. King tries to, to chase him Katie Marinello: for really Claire Fisher: no reason at all. And she rounds Katie Marinello: corner. She goes through so right day trips, right? So they're all kind of shopping in this [00:51:00] like big outdoor mall she's chasing. She goes past all these characters from the movie who are watching her chase him. They go around a corner. We don't go around the corner with her. There's a shot and he's dead. Claire Fisher: And she gets surrounded by scary Arabs with knives only to be rescued. Katie Marinello: Oh my God. That was Claire Fisher: horrifying Katie Marinello: by Claire Fisher: the civilized men of the British Military authorities of Mandatory Palestine. Oh my God. Katie Marinello: I was so mad. I was so mad. It's Claire Fisher: an extremely Katie Marinello: So unnecessary. And also she's severe, under reaction to a bunch of people coming at you with knives. There's no screaming. It's just and they don't say anything because why? Claire Fisher: Because then we'd have to teach some extras Arabic Katie. Katie Marinello: Right. Or hire Arabs in Palestine. Claire Fisher: Yeah, yeah, Yeah. And we aren't doing that this week. No. Gosh, what a weird idea, Katie. Yeah. I didn't like this, but clue. She definitely didn't have a gun. She wasn't Katie Marinello: carrying a purse. Right. Because she was, she didn't have a purse. Yeah. Claire Fisher: She didn't have pockets in her thin dress. So [00:52:00] she definitely wasn't carrying a gun, which means someone knew that this guy would be coming and someone arranged to not only frighten him off, but then head him off and shoot him. Katie Marinello: Right. Claire Fisher: So this is like A evil genius of a killer, Katie Marinello: whoever. 'cause when we come upon her, it's not like she's standing over a dead body. She's standing over a dead body holding the gun. Claire Fisher: Yeah. Because someone threw it at her from an alley right. After shooting this guy. Right. And she caught it instinctively, Katie Marinello: yeah. Claire Fisher: So this is someone who has some nerve, Katie Marinello: yeah. Claire Fisher: Yeah. Okay. And we've already established the Boyntons have all been psychologically beaten down and broken by their mother. And are not those kinds of people. So then we come to the famous drawing room summation of which Poirot is so fond except somehow, this time Katie Marinello: it's outside. Claire Fisher: They give him two, the first Katie Marinello: who Claire Fisher: outside. Katie Marinello: They did give him two. Claire Fisher: Yeah. Katie Marinello: So weird. Claire Fisher: The first is outside. I'm just Katie Marinello: because the actual murderer decides she's not staying around for the big conclusion. Claire Fisher: And so then they have to continue the conversation that night at the [00:53:00] Coronation Ball. Katie Marinello: Uhhuh Claire Fisher: two drawing room summations is objectively too many drawing room summations. I agree. They use of a drawing room summation in a detective story is already one of those acceptable breaks from reality. Detectives do not actually gather all of the suspects in one place. No. Katie Marinello: That's Claire Fisher: dramatically reveal which views the murderer. But that is a Christie specialty that she invented because people said her courtroom scenes were unrealistic. Katie Marinello: Interesting. Claire Fisher: British courts work differently than American courts and among other things, it's not as easy to just sit in on them and learn how they work. So when she wrote her first novel, she tried to set the denouement the dramatic reveal by Poirot in the courtroom, and her editor said, this isn't how lawyers talk. This isn't how judges work. You don't understand laws of evidence at all. If you want this scene, it can't be in a courtroom. So she had him gather everybody into the drawing room and then she ended up having to do that repeatedly for 56. Six years. Katie Marinello: Yeah. 66 Claire Fisher: novels. And 66 novels. Yeah. [00:54:00] One of her novels. Does actually take place during the trial in a courtroom and one movie Witness for the Prosecution as well. So she did at some point get some legal training. But Katie Marinello: oh, she became world famous. She probably was allowed into a courtroom or two, Claire Fisher: but by then she was really famous for the drawing room summation. So Katie Marinello: technically no drawing room summation in, And There Were None. Claire Fisher: There's no detective in, And Then There Were None. Katie Marinello: Good point. Okay. So outdoors, drawing, room summation. Beautiful. Setting outside he goes through each of the children, basically. I honestly, I think they should have taken a second look at Nadine because she's constantly saying, oh, what does it matter? Oh, can't we? You're upsetting us. Oh. You're just upsetting innocent people. And I was like, girl, you guilty! Claire Fisher: Yeah. Which Poirot brings up, he says, you were the last person to speak to your mother-in-law. You're the one who has her medication. Yeah. You're the one who has syringes in her [00:55:00] travel bag. 'cause you're a nurse. You've been trying to get your husband to, break free of his mother by making him jealous, by cheating on him. And then this is what, so the hosts of All About Agatha the podcast. Call this "Papa Poirot.". Poirot likes to stage these moments in order to see whether the husband will back his wife up. And Lennox leaps to his feet and says, I did it. Katie Marinello: Yes. He confesses. Yeah. Claire Fisher: Yeah. And then Poirot says, you didn't know Nadine was planning to leave you until after your mother was dead Katie Marinello: which is not true. He absolutely knew about the affairs, so that's not true. Just because she didn't specifically say I was planning to leave you. Claire Fisher: Yeah. Katie Marinello: Doesn't mean that he doesn't know that it's possible. And regardless, he wants the money. So that explanation for his lack of motive made no sense to me. Claire Fisher: So this whole scene makes very little sense. And in fact, Lady Westholme says, I'm not staying here for this. I have to get to the ready for the coronation ball. And she Katie Marinello: leaves and she's not wrong. Yeah. I agreed with her in that moment. Only thing I agreed. That, and the an American should be on the throne. [00:56:00] That was funny. Claire Fisher: So they all go back Katie Marinello: to the hotel. Oh, we we forgot to mention that. One of the reasons that he says it couldn't be any of the children. Or Nadine is that they would've just put more in her water. And he sees that there's track marks in her hands. Claire Fisher: She has a puncture mark where someone injected her with an overdose of her heart medication. If you were one of her children who had access to her heart medication you could have put a Katie Marinello: couple extra drops in. Claire Fisher: Yeah. And made it look natural or like an accident. Katie Marinello: Right. Claire Fisher: So back at the Katie Marinello: hotel also just have to throw out there's three syringes, there's Claire Fisher: Dr. Katie Marinello: King's, there's Nadine's, and then Ms. Quinton has one for some reason. And I'm like, how many syringes? Do you carry syringes when you travel? Claire Fisher: That's better explained in the novel, but it's still not a great explanation. Basically, if you were an archeologist in the thirties, your first aid kit had to include things like tetanus antiserum. Katie Marinello: Oh, Claire Fisher: that makes sense. 'cause you wouldn't be able to go to a hospital for a tetanus shot. Katie Marinello: Right. Then [00:57:00] she like drops it when they're out for their walk. Claire Fisher: She misplaces it only, it turns out it wasn't her who misplaced it. Carol had taken it. Yes. 'cause Carol was gonna see if she could kill her mother by injecting air into one of her veins. Katie Marinello: Right. Claire Fisher: And Carol dropped it casually and then they didn't get a chance. , so another Christie specialty is a book in which people are lying, but for different motivations. Katie Marinello: So basically during that open air parlor scene, he establishes, first of all that none of the children did it. But that all of them lied because they all thought the other one had done it. Claire Fisher: Yes. The woman has really done a number on them because what a messed up family dynamic this is. Katie Marinello: But hey, they were all willing to cover for each other, which is very sweet. Claire Fisher: So if you don't wanna know who actually killed Mrs. Boynton if you haven't seen this movie or read this book, Katie Marinello: spoiler alert for a movie that is older than me, but only by a couple months, Claire Fisher: skip ahead to the end right now. Yeah. If you don't wanna know who actually killed her, skip ahead. It turns out it wasn't a member of the family at [00:58:00] all. Katie Marinello: So then they go to the Coronation Ball, everybody's at the Coronation Ball Claire Fisher: and there's a second drawing room summation Katie Marinello: it's like casually dancing and eating. And they're like, by the way, who actually did kill our mother? Claire Fisher: Yeah. Poirot says, okay, remember how Lady Westholme said she saw an Arab arguing with, mrs. Boynton. And Ms. Quinton saw this person too, and Ginny also thought she dreamed of a Sheikh coming into her tent. There was no such person on site, but someone dressed up like an Arab sheikh. And someone was in Ginny's tent because she was looking for Dr. King's tent because she was looking for a syringe. And Ms. Quinton, the extremely suggestible, was tricked into believing that Mrs. Boynton had grunted at her and Lady Westholme at some point in the afternoon. But actually what happened was Lady Westholme went and got herself dressed in towels and Poirot to demonstrate [00:59:00] that he is onto her dresses himself in towels same time. So that she can see him from where she is on the dance floor. Katie Marinello: Yep. Yeah, she's not actually here for this confrontation. She's elsewhere in the room. Claire Fisher: And then she went into Dr. King's medical bag, got extra digitalis got a syringe came out and injected the sleeping Mrs. Boynton with it. Then went back to her work and tricked Ms. Quinton to thinking that Mrs. Boynton was still alive. So the only question now is why? He got a telegram from America, guess who was a prisoner at the prison where Mrs. Boynton was a wardress Katie Marinello: when she said, I never forget a name, a face, a whatever, she was talking to Dr. King, but behind her was Lady Westholme Claire Fisher: and when the scared guy who met Poirot at the back door ran away, it was because Lady Westholme was behind Poirot Katie Marinello: and he had seen her kill. Claire Fisher: And her room [01:00:00] faces the alley where he arranged this meeting with Poirot so she knew he was coming, got that gun and arranged to shoot him. And then there's also the last and most obvious clue is that you wouldn't hire Lauren Bacall to be in your movie unless she was the killer. Katie Marinello: You, Carrie Fisher and Hailey Mills in your movie. So Claire Fisher: Yeah. But neither of them was exactly at peak career in 1987. Katie Marinello: I don't know that I would argue Lauren Bacall was either, but Claire Fisher: she's definitely the biggest name At the time. And Katie Marinello: she was top and then Carrie was second. Claire Fisher: . In the billing. Yeah. Katie Marinello: I noticed that Carrie was second billing because obviously this is Carrie Fisher podcast. Claire Fisher: Of course. Yeah. And hey, she has not gotten top billing a lot recently, has she? Katie Marinello: Several movies. Claire Fisher: All right, Lady Westholme goes back to her hotel room, it shoots herself, Katie Marinello: makes terrible police work, right? So he reveals all this while she's still elsewhere in this huge crowd. So she gets away and she goes back to her hotel room, and then there's another shot, and she has completed suicide. Claire Fisher: [01:01:00] And Poirot says to Colonel Carbury let's write down that she had an accident while cleaning the gun. Let's not, provoke more investigation, Katie Marinello: which is so weird. Claire Fisher: No, this is actually what Poirot does for murderers he sympathizes with, he gives them a chance to kill themselves so that they won't be put through a trial. Katie Marinello: Okay. That might be his M.O. Still weird. Claire Fisher: Oh, are you suggesting that Hercule Poirot is a weird person? Katie Marinello: This is my first encounter with him, but I'm gonna Claire Fisher: say Katie Marinello: very strange. Police work. He's not really policeman, right. He is just a random detective. Claire Fisher: He was a Belgian policeman, but he had to flee Belgium during World War I, if you must know. And so since then has been a freelance detective. Katie Marinello: Have you seen that meme going around? That's like the best character in a movie. Is the world famous detective a thing that absolutely does not exist? Claire Fisher: If you follow true crime, you get to hear certain names over and over. That's Katie Marinello: true. But not [01:02:00] that you would not be able to walk into a restaurant with without somebody recognizing you, which seems to happen with so many movie and book detectives. Any who yeah. So that's it. Everybody's happy. They all go back to America Claire Fisher: movie. The Abusive Woman's Dead. The woman who killed her is dead and everybody else can live happily ever after. Yeah. Katie Marinello: I think I liked that Carrie was probably one of the most active characters in it, Claire Fisher: I will say. Yes. Okay. So now we get to ranking Carrie's Katie Marinello: character. Right. So I like that she had actual plot, she had some substance to her. . She wasn't a great person, but she had motivations and she had a story and they don't put her in a tent and move on with the rest of the story. I found the family dynamics interesting. I, it's a whodunit so you know somebody's gonna die eventually. There was a weird thing when Miss Quinton and Cope go missing, I'm [01:03:00] like, oh, is that the, so there's a little bit of a first mystery, which they immediately solve. I don't know. I just thought it was interesting. And also I like I like the Middle East. I like traveling by boat in the Middle East like we did up the Nile. And I don't know. I found it beautiful and interesting Claire Fisher: when we went up the Nile. We had our our whole family and a close family friend, so we were doing it exactly like the Boyntons did. Katie Marinello: I was thinking when you said that she. Based these guys off of a family on her boat, up the Nile. It was like, oh. Is somebody basing anything off of us? I don't think we had nearly this level of drama. Claire Fisher: We were there with a whole bunch of your neighbors organized through your chamber. You're gonna have to tell me if anybody has released a detective book based on Katie Marinello: It's true. It's true. Claire Fisher: So for Nadine, Nadine does things. She has agency, but I feel like she still comes across as dumb. It could be that this is an artifact of [01:04:00] how little power a wife would've had in the 1930s. She can't just leave her husband unless she has another man to take her away. And she can't just set boundaries with her mother-in-law, unless her husband is willing to renounce the family money. And he doesn't think he can do that. Like she says, why don't we just go away and earn our own living somewhere? And he's I don't actually have any. Katie Marinello: Right. I don't have a career. And you don't even have a nursing license. Claire Fisher: Yeah. Okay. I will say serving as one of the more plausible suspects in the movie Katie Marinello: for sure. Claire Fisher: Na Nadine. Yeah. I mean Nadine is the one who usually gives Mrs. Boynton her medicine. It's, she has a syringe. She has the bottle of medicine Katie Marinello: And she acts guilty as hell. She acts Claire Fisher: guilty as sin. She constantly announces how happy she is that her mother-in-law is dead. Katie Marinello: And says that they shouldn't investigate it. Claire Fisher: She definitely has, Carrie has more to do in this movie than she's had to do in like the past five, Katie Marinello: at least Claire Fisher: put together. Right. Yeah. I thought that it, I just felt like the [01:05:00] movie dragged a little with all of the repetitively flashing back to scenes. We had just seen when you already know, most of these witnesses are lying because Katie Marinello: Right. Claire Fisher: Otherwise it wouldn't be a mystery. Katie Marinello: No. I didn't find that the part where I felt it dragged was with the two reveals. Like, why, Claire Fisher: yeah. Why do we Katie Marinello: need to, why is this happening? When, just not having Lady Westholme walk out at that moment was a perfectly plausible choice because you're writing the movie. How many Hutt slayers would you give her? Claire Fisher: Probably like a four. Katie Marinello: Yeah. Claire Fisher: Yeah. Yeah. Katie Marinello: I think so. I think for the choices that she had at the time, for being a woman of no means in 1937. Honestly, I would've liked it if she was the murderer, but it would've been a little too obvious. Claire Fisher: Do you want me to tell you who the murderer is in the stage play? Katie Marinello: Absolutely. Claire Fisher: In the stage play, Mrs. Boynton kills herself. Just knowing that one of her kids will have to take the fall for it. Katie Marinello: Shit that is diabolical. Claire Fisher: It's also ridiculous though, if [01:06:00] you are living your life to abuse other people. There's no reason why you would kill yourself and deprive yourself of the joy. But in this movie, they make it that she's set to kill Cope, and then she completely drops that plan because she sees she has fresh meat. She sees Lady Westholme and she knows she can ruin that woman. Katie Marinello: Right. And blackmail her forever and get a lot of power from that. Claire Fisher: And therefore, any idea of, the last blackmail plot just flies out of her head. Katie Marinello: Yeah. This is not a film full of geniuses. Claire Fisher: No. Katie Marinello: Even the genius detective is a little, eh. Claire Fisher: I read one review that said, Ustinov played Poirot six times. This is probably the weakest. I know we haven't watched all the others, but if I get a chance to watch them someday, I'm sure I'll be more impressed by his death on the Nile Poirot. 'cause he was getting old by this point. One more note. Claire Fisher: The exterior wide shots of the cruise ship in this movie were all outtakes from the film Voyage of the Damned Katie Marinello: Oh, Claire Fisher: which is the true story of an ocean [01:07:00] liner filled with Jewish refugees attempting to flee Nazi Germany in 1939. I think that may have some relevance because those people all got turned away and sent back to Nazi Germany where they all died. And perhaps it's important always, but especially in 2026, to remember that we need to welcome refugees for like a really solid reason. Katie Marinello: Yes. It's probably like a good idea for everybody to brush up on their Nazi history today. Claire Fisher: The family I stayed with in Jordan, whose last name led to my unfortunate experience in the Tel Aviv airport. They didn't live in Jordan by choice. Katie Marinello: And soon we may live in Jordan. Claire Fisher: So Katie Marinello: what are we watching next week, Claire? Claire Fisher: Oh, another story about a strange land. Katie Marinello: Oh, Claire Fisher: The Burbs. Katie Marinello: Oh, we're going to the suburbs. That is much more terrifying than 1937 Palestine. Claire Fisher: Yeah. The eighties suburbs specifically would be very scary. Katie Marinello: Yeah. This [01:08:00] is one of the movies that isn't Star Wars that I've heard of. Claire Fisher: Has Tom Hanks in it, which means it's a reteam for the two of them after they were in the Man with One Red Shoe. Yeah. But this is one that I hear good things about. Yeah. On unlike many of these other movies. Everything Katie Marinello: else. Yeah. Claire Fisher: She mentioned it in her one woman show that we saw on Broadway. Katie Marinello: In 2010. As well, this can't be worse than that. Sometimes it's the holiday special, sometimes it's Sorority Row. Claire Fisher: Next week it's neither of those things. Thank Katie Marinello: goodness Claire Fisher: it's a movie that has an actual fandom. Katie Marinello: Yeah. Claire Fisher: It has a TV tropes page Katie Marinello: considered a classic of the genre. Claire Fisher: And my library owned people who are following along at home may not understand the lengths to which we've had to go to find copies of some of these movies. Katie Marinello: Right. Because we can't actually say how we've gotten some copies of this movie, Claire Fisher: but I have a library copy of The Burbs and my husband has built a DVD player Katie Marinello: I don't have a [01:09:00] DVD player, so hopefully it's streaming somewhere. Claire Fisher: Hopefully. Katie Marinello: But until then, Claire Fisher: just remember if my life weren't funny, it would only be true. Katie Marinello: And that's unacceptable. Thanks for listening to another episode of Carried Far, far Away. This podcast is hosted, produced, edited re-edited obsessed over and loved by Katie Marinello and Claire Fisher. You can follow the show on Facebook and Instagram at carriedawaypod You can email us at awaycarriedpod@gmail.com You can follow Claire deadfictionalgirlfriends and Katie katiedaway We are proud to be part of the 12 & 24 network. You can join fans and creators from the Network on Discord by clicking the link in the show notes. All clips used in this podcast are done so under the protection of fair use. Have a wonderful week, and may the force be with you. And now our space, grandma wisdom of the week. claire-fisher--she-her-_3_01-12-2025_202733: No matter how I go, I want it reported that I drowned in moonlight strangled by my own bra. [01:10:00]