WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:01.890 Ashley Worley: I hadn't planned on being behind the mic. 00:00:01.890 --> 00:00:04.320 I think she's really the impetus. 00:00:04.320 --> 00:00:06.210 You saw her dragging me into this interview. 00:00:06.480 --> 00:00:07.200 I was like, cool. 00:00:07.200 --> 00:00:08.039 Your mic's set up. 00:00:08.039 --> 00:00:08.940 Let's, you know. 00:00:09.420 --> 00:00:11.610 Dr. Catherine Ross: I really wanted to make sure she got here. 00:00:11.790 --> 00:00:15.150 Because honestly, if you're gonna give advice to folks out there in 00:00:15.150 --> 00:00:18.570 the world of college or university broadcasting, maybe even high schools, 00:00:18.660 --> 00:00:22.590 the companionship of the faculty to the student is one of the big products. 00:00:22.880 --> 00:00:25.280 She brings, you know, we plan our ideas together. 00:00:25.280 --> 00:00:27.260 We talk about, well, what do you think the students would like? 00:00:27.620 --> 00:00:30.650 Neil McPhedran: Welcome to Continuing Studies, a podcast for higher education 00:00:30.650 --> 00:00:32.780 podcasters to learn and get inspired. 00:00:32.870 --> 00:00:38.650 I'm Neil McPhedran, founder of Podium Podcast Company, and HigherEdPods.com. 00:00:38.750 --> 00:00:41.330 Jennifer-Lee: And I'm Jennifer-Lee, founder at JPod Creations. 00:00:41.330 --> 00:00:43.100 Podcasting is broadcasting. 00:00:43.160 --> 00:00:44.480 We want you to know you're not alone. 00:00:44.480 --> 00:00:47.510 In fact, there are many of you higher ed podcasters out there, and 00:00:47.510 --> 00:00:48.920 we can all learn from each other. 00:00:49.160 --> 00:00:52.880 Neil McPhedran: And a reminder, on that note about learning from each other. 00:00:52.910 --> 00:00:55.790 I've talked about it a couple times in previous episodes, but our 00:00:55.790 --> 00:01:01.940 Slack channel is live in Higher Ed Pods, and so that's a great place 00:01:01.940 --> 00:01:04.190 to connect with other podcasters. 00:01:04.190 --> 00:01:08.690 All you need to do is become a member of Higher Ed Pods, so in 00:01:08.690 --> 00:01:12.140 the top right corner, just hit that and sign up, become a member. 00:01:12.140 --> 00:01:13.250 Really easy, really quick. 00:01:13.250 --> 00:01:18.860 And then through that you'll get your invitation to join the Slack channel. 00:01:18.860 --> 00:01:20.060 We'd love to have you there. 00:01:20.460 --> 00:01:21.960 Jennifer-Lee: It's a great place to be. 00:01:21.960 --> 00:01:26.100 I'm really enjoying a lot of the conversations with the other podcasters. 00:01:26.100 --> 00:01:28.140 Like we were talking about monetization the other day. 00:01:28.140 --> 00:01:30.960 Because sometimes as podcasters you feel a little lonely. 00:01:31.200 --> 00:01:33.720 So it's a great resource, I think. 00:01:33.720 --> 00:01:36.780 And so get in there and let's have some more amazing discussions. 00:01:37.589 --> 00:01:37.979 Neil McPhedran: Love it. 00:01:37.979 --> 00:01:38.310 Yeah. 00:01:38.310 --> 00:01:39.210 And swaps. 00:01:39.210 --> 00:01:40.800 That's another one that's come up. 00:01:40.800 --> 00:01:41.690 Promo swaps. 00:01:41.690 --> 00:01:45.690 So if you're looking to connect with other higher ed podcasters and do 00:01:45.690 --> 00:01:49.140 something like that, that is the place, and we're gonna start to really focus 00:01:49.140 --> 00:01:50.880 in on that coming back to school. 00:01:51.300 --> 00:01:57.790 So today, Jen, in this episode, we are chatting with Dr. Ross 00:01:57.850 --> 00:02:00.820 from the Ask Dr. Ross Show. 00:02:01.210 --> 00:02:03.100 And we had a fantastic conversation. 00:02:03.369 --> 00:02:10.360 Catherine Ross is the Professor of English at University of Texas at Tyler. 00:02:10.870 --> 00:02:16.465 Dr. Ross teaches British literature, and she launched her podcast Ask Dr. 00:02:16.465 --> 00:02:22.390 Ross a couple of years ago, and they are just going into their next season, 00:02:22.390 --> 00:02:23.775 starting right around now, actually. 00:02:24.285 --> 00:02:27.795 And it's a really super interesting podcast where they answer the 00:02:27.795 --> 00:02:30.704 important and nagging questions parents and potential college 00:02:30.704 --> 00:02:33.614 students raise about higher education. 00:02:33.614 --> 00:02:38.475 So topics they've covered off include things like preparing for college, 00:02:38.475 --> 00:02:42.465 avoiding student debt, secrets of good grades, so on and so forth. 00:02:42.495 --> 00:02:43.635 Dr. Ross is the host. 00:02:44.400 --> 00:02:49.269 She has a co-host as well, and the co-host is Ashley Worley. 00:02:49.410 --> 00:02:54.780 She's an honors in mass communications student and the producer as 00:02:54.780 --> 00:02:57.180 well of Ask Dr. Ross podcast. 00:02:57.810 --> 00:02:59.850 Jennifer-Lee: She hops on the podcast as well, which we thought 00:02:59.850 --> 00:03:03.600 was really neat, because you can really see how much Dr. Ross 00:03:03.660 --> 00:03:06.060 appreciates having Ashley on her team. 00:03:06.120 --> 00:03:10.350 And she really wants everyone to know, like even when we contacted them for 00:03:10.350 --> 00:03:15.120 an interview, that Ashley has really brought the podcast to a new level. 00:03:15.120 --> 00:03:19.799 I love seeing that dynamic between teacher and student because sometimes 00:03:19.799 --> 00:03:24.780 I think as students, we're kind of scared of our professors a little bit. 00:03:24.959 --> 00:03:28.920 So I love the bond that they have and it really rings through in their podcast. 00:03:29.250 --> 00:03:30.600 Neil McPhedran: Yes, absolutely. 00:03:30.600 --> 00:03:31.320 Yeah, it was great. 00:03:31.320 --> 00:03:36.120 And actually it was interesting 'cause at first we were going to 00:03:36.120 --> 00:03:38.370 just be interviewing Dr. Ross. 00:03:39.075 --> 00:03:42.915 And then quickly early on into the interview, Ashley was there in the 00:03:42.915 --> 00:03:44.895 background and she pulled Ashley in. 00:03:44.895 --> 00:03:47.895 And then Ashley's sort of part of the interview as well too, so. 00:03:48.045 --> 00:03:51.135 Which I really liked, Jen, how that worked out, actually, in the end. 00:03:51.135 --> 00:03:54.105 And in retrospect, we probably should have just sort of said in the beginning, 00:03:54.105 --> 00:03:55.785 let's interview them both together. 00:03:55.785 --> 00:03:59.715 But I love how it all worked out, where we interviewed them both and 00:03:59.925 --> 00:04:02.595 kind of indicative, I would say, of the relationship they have. 00:04:02.715 --> 00:04:03.405 Let's get into it. 00:04:04.565 --> 00:04:06.035 Dr. Ross, it's great to have you here. 00:04:06.095 --> 00:04:08.615 Dr. Catherine Ross: Oh, I'm happy to see you all and talk with you again. 00:04:08.825 --> 00:04:12.605 Jennifer-Lee: We actually met Dr. Ross, usually Neil and I meet the people 00:04:12.605 --> 00:04:18.755 that we interview first time here, virtually, and we got to meet Dr. Ross 00:04:18.815 --> 00:04:21.685 at our first ever Higher Ed PodCon. 00:04:21.965 --> 00:04:25.055 So we were like, you have to be on our podcast. 00:04:25.055 --> 00:04:28.820 So it was really nice to finally like meet someone face-to-face instead 00:04:28.820 --> 00:04:32.780 of just writing a cold email and be like, you don't know who we are, but 00:04:32.780 --> 00:04:34.669 we'd love you to come on our podcast. 00:04:34.869 --> 00:04:34.960 Dr. Catherine Ross: Yeah. 00:04:34.989 --> 00:04:38.330 Well, I do know who you are and I'm happy to be here, so don't worry. 00:04:38.659 --> 00:04:38.989 Jennifer-Lee: Don't worry. 00:04:38.989 --> 00:04:39.830 There we go. 00:04:39.835 --> 00:04:40.244 Neil McPhedran: That's great. 00:04:40.789 --> 00:04:41.390 That's awesome. 00:04:41.960 --> 00:04:45.255 So, we're calling you Dr. Ross, because that's the name of your podcast. 00:04:45.255 --> 00:04:48.405 So I feel like I can't call you anything else actually, when we talk to you here. 00:04:48.405 --> 00:04:49.785 So Ask Dr. 00:04:49.785 --> 00:04:50.880 Dr. Catherine Ross: You're welcome to call me Catherine if you want. 00:04:51.230 --> 00:04:51.520 Neil McPhedran: Okay. 00:04:51.540 --> 00:04:53.925 But I love the ring to Dr. Ross. 00:04:54.255 --> 00:04:57.975 So the podcast, Ask Dr. Ross, maybe you could just tell us a 00:04:57.975 --> 00:05:02.565 little bit about the podcast and the reason that you launched it? 00:05:02.835 --> 00:05:06.044 Dr. Catherine Ross: Well, okay, so I'm in the College of Arts and Sciences at the 00:05:06.044 --> 00:05:12.075 University of Texas at Tyler, and we were given the opportunity to purchase a public 00:05:12.075 --> 00:05:14.085 radio station about three years ago. 00:05:14.474 --> 00:05:15.914 Everybody was very excited about it. 00:05:16.215 --> 00:05:19.440 And the dean, who was a friend of mine, came to me and said, 00:05:19.440 --> 00:05:20.609 we are gonna need content. 00:05:20.609 --> 00:05:23.909 I want you to start a podcast about going to college. 00:05:23.909 --> 00:05:24.719 And I said, okay. 00:05:24.719 --> 00:05:25.469 It sounds like fun. 00:05:25.469 --> 00:05:26.669 I've never done it before. 00:05:26.940 --> 00:05:31.050 And originally we have a broadcast professor here who did television, 00:05:31.050 --> 00:05:33.180 and she seemed to think she could get me launched okay. 00:05:33.180 --> 00:05:36.900 Well, honestly, it took having a student like Ashley. 00:05:37.080 --> 00:05:40.770 My first producer was another student who was very experienced 00:05:40.770 --> 00:05:42.390 with the machinery to do it. 00:05:42.690 --> 00:05:48.765 But anyway, Neil Gray asked me, Dean Gray asked me to talk about college 00:05:48.765 --> 00:05:52.125 life, and I was thrilled to do that, because one of my big concerns right 00:05:52.125 --> 00:05:57.525 now about higher education is a lot of people have a really skewed idea 00:05:57.525 --> 00:06:01.335 of what it's like and what we do, and there's a lot of bad press out there. 00:06:01.335 --> 00:06:04.035 And I thought, well, I think we can tell a better story. 00:06:04.515 --> 00:06:08.625 The other thing too though, about it was that I, I didn't pick the title. 00:06:08.715 --> 00:06:13.185 I did not want to have my name in it, but the folks on the team who 00:06:13.215 --> 00:06:18.585 were managing the radio station liked that title, and so, there you go. 00:06:18.945 --> 00:06:22.275 And, but anyway, Ask Dr. Ross does seem to work just fine. 00:06:22.575 --> 00:06:23.685 Neil McPhedran: Got a great ring to it. 00:06:23.715 --> 00:06:24.045 Dr. Catherine Ross: Yeah. 00:06:24.045 --> 00:06:27.015 Jennifer-Lee: It sounds like, I have to say because like growing up here 00:06:27.015 --> 00:06:30.825 in Canada, and I think they had some in America, in America as well, but 00:06:30.825 --> 00:06:35.070 it seems very like old school radio program, like, Dr. Ross where you 00:06:35.070 --> 00:06:37.110 call in for your medical questions. 00:06:37.320 --> 00:06:38.130 Like, I like it. 00:06:38.400 --> 00:06:40.110 Neil McPhedran: Calling in for your college questions. 00:06:40.170 --> 00:06:40.440 Dr. Catherine Ross: Yeah. 00:06:40.445 --> 00:06:40.495 Yeah. 00:06:41.100 --> 00:06:41.880 Jennifer-Lee: A little spin. 00:06:41.880 --> 00:06:42.180 Yeah. 00:06:42.180 --> 00:06:42.660 Like college. 00:06:42.710 --> 00:06:42.860 Dr. Catherine Ross: Right. 00:06:42.990 --> 00:06:43.240 Right. 00:06:43.240 --> 00:06:45.090 Well, and it also gave us a kind of a hook. 00:06:45.090 --> 00:06:47.400 So what is the question for this day? 00:06:47.400 --> 00:06:51.180 You know, and sometimes we actually get students who call in, although 00:06:51.390 --> 00:06:53.040 not as many as we would've liked. 00:06:53.310 --> 00:06:57.000 In fact, Ashley has to plant questions with some of her classmates sometimes. 00:06:57.330 --> 00:06:58.140 Neil McPhedran: We won't tell anyone. 00:06:58.260 --> 00:06:58.710 Dr. Catherine Ross: Yeah. 00:06:58.710 --> 00:07:03.240 But we knew that there were questions we wanted to answer, so, there you go. 00:07:04.650 --> 00:07:06.630 Jennifer-Lee: And can you tell us, she's sitting in the room and we've 00:07:06.630 --> 00:07:09.719 met her and she's lovely, and we know that she's your driving force. 00:07:09.719 --> 00:07:13.080 Can you tell us a little bit more about Ashley and her role? 00:07:13.080 --> 00:07:13.169 Dr. Catherine Ross: Sure. 00:07:13.530 --> 00:07:16.500 Well, the first year I had a young man who was actually the editor of 00:07:16.500 --> 00:07:20.969 our newspaper and did a lot of digital things and he was, what I said in my 00:07:20.969 --> 00:07:26.734 talk there, he said he was real hot, fast, zippy kind of a fella and he kind 00:07:26.734 --> 00:07:32.885 of oftentimes outpaced me, you know, the old school lady here, but he moved on 00:07:32.885 --> 00:07:35.135 and I was desperate to get a new person. 00:07:35.135 --> 00:07:38.885 And Ashley, who is an honors student in our College of Arts and Sciences, and 00:07:38.885 --> 00:07:44.525 who is also, uh, communications major and does her own movies, what else do you do? 00:07:44.825 --> 00:07:47.495 Ashley Worley: Oh, I write and just stuff in my free time. 00:07:47.495 --> 00:07:48.935 I write, like to write books. 00:07:49.265 --> 00:07:51.724 I do a little bit of illustration just for fun. 00:07:52.260 --> 00:07:54.119 And mostly short films though. 00:07:54.450 --> 00:07:57.419 Dr. Catherine Ross: But she's very technical and I am very untechnical, 00:07:58.619 --> 00:08:03.030 and so Ashley originally volunteered to do it just for the experience. 00:08:03.450 --> 00:08:07.859 After about three or four months, I was able to get the dean to pay her. 00:08:08.150 --> 00:08:12.270 So it's now her college job and boy does she take it seriously. 00:08:12.659 --> 00:08:15.270 Jennifer-Lee: I love the fact that, this is something Neil and I are learning 00:08:15.270 --> 00:08:20.055 on the podcast, beyond just having listens in college and university 00:08:20.055 --> 00:08:24.795 podcasts, but they're creating different roles within the institutions. 00:08:24.795 --> 00:08:27.645 And when I went back to university, some of the college jobs were like 00:08:27.645 --> 00:08:30.655 working in the cafeteria, working at the student union building and stuff. 00:08:31.475 --> 00:08:35.175 But it's neat that a lot of them are having these jobs that are gonna be 00:08:35.175 --> 00:08:38.355 things that you could potentially go to work for later in life. 00:08:38.355 --> 00:08:42.945 So I always find interesting that when Neil and I look at university 00:08:42.950 --> 00:08:45.345 podcasting, it's beyond the microphone. 00:08:45.775 --> 00:08:48.175 People don't realize the power of podcasting. 00:08:48.175 --> 00:08:50.864 It's not just people talking and giving awareness. 00:08:50.864 --> 00:08:53.415 It's creating other jobs and opportunities for people. 00:08:53.564 --> 00:08:54.255 Dr. Catherine Ross: Oh, exactly. 00:08:54.255 --> 00:08:57.435 In fact, as soon as I got back from the conference, I went straight 00:08:57.435 --> 00:09:00.795 to the dean and, because everybody was talking about student interns. 00:09:01.214 --> 00:09:05.354 And Ashley worked so hard, there are days when I wonder if I'm, you know, the 00:09:05.354 --> 00:09:08.324 abusive employer that, the stuff she does. 00:09:08.885 --> 00:09:13.685 So I anticipate, especially as we add more podcasts, the goal of this, now, I 00:09:13.685 --> 00:09:16.685 just have to tell you, the sad story is we ended up selling our radio station. 00:09:16.865 --> 00:09:19.595 There were a number of sort of political issues. 00:09:19.625 --> 00:09:21.995 'Cause we were originally using some national public 00:09:21.995 --> 00:09:23.615 radio kinds of programming. 00:09:23.615 --> 00:09:26.980 And finally it just got to be too thorny. 00:09:27.280 --> 00:09:32.740 So now, however, we have all this equipment, and the job of the 00:09:32.770 --> 00:09:36.190 communications department is to start growing the podcasting program. 00:09:36.190 --> 00:09:38.770 Now, it's interesting, I'm not in communications, I'm in English. 00:09:38.980 --> 00:09:42.760 I'm an English professor, but I guess the good news is I'm a pretty good voice 00:09:42.760 --> 00:09:47.710 for this, and apparently people wanna ask me questions, so I'm ready to answer. 00:09:48.615 --> 00:09:49.155 Neil McPhedran: That's great. 00:09:49.155 --> 00:09:52.635 So you're in between seasons right now, so you'll have another season 00:09:52.635 --> 00:09:54.705 starting as school comes back then? 00:09:54.795 --> 00:09:55.365 Dr. Catherine Ross: Correct. 00:09:55.425 --> 00:09:55.814 Correct. 00:09:55.814 --> 00:09:59.505 And we've already got four episodes ready and loaded. 00:09:59.625 --> 00:10:01.555 Ashley Worley: We actually, ours is dropping today. 00:10:01.555 --> 00:10:03.555 The first episode of season three drops today. 00:10:03.765 --> 00:10:04.125 Neil McPhedran: Yeah. 00:10:04.215 --> 00:10:04.735 Oh wow. 00:10:04.785 --> 00:10:05.255 Excellent. 00:10:05.485 --> 00:10:06.445 That's exciting. 00:10:06.485 --> 00:10:09.415 So, coincide with the beginning of the school year, so that's great, so. 00:10:09.474 --> 00:10:09.745 Dr. Catherine Ross: Right. 00:10:09.745 --> 00:10:13.959 There, it was, the first one is like ten, ten bits of advice from Ashley and Dr. 00:10:13.959 --> 00:10:17.214 Ross about how to start out well in the college year, I think is what it's called. 00:10:17.214 --> 00:10:17.785 Something like that. 00:10:17.844 --> 00:10:18.444 Neil McPhedran: That's great. 00:10:18.625 --> 00:10:24.015 So the audience then, for the podcast is, I was interested, actually, 00:10:24.015 --> 00:10:27.074 you called out, it's for family and prospective students, and 00:10:27.074 --> 00:10:28.665 obviously existing students as well. 00:10:28.665 --> 00:10:33.375 That, that I thought, I like that it's very focused on new students and 00:10:33.375 --> 00:10:37.095 prospective students, basically, but not just the students, the larger family, 00:10:37.095 --> 00:10:40.005 which is kind of part of decision making process, et cetera, I guess. 00:10:40.010 --> 00:10:40.814 Dr. Catherine Ross: Yeah, yeah. 00:10:40.814 --> 00:10:44.715 Well we, you know, the universities, all universities and ours is like 00:10:44.715 --> 00:10:46.875 this with always bringing people in. 00:10:47.055 --> 00:10:51.210 We have the top twenty-five percent graduates of the local high schools. 00:10:51.240 --> 00:10:53.940 They bring them in and take them through and show them what UT Tyler's 00:10:53.940 --> 00:10:55.350 like, and parents come with them. 00:10:55.500 --> 00:10:58.180 Let's face it, the parents are mostly paying for it. 00:10:58.180 --> 00:11:02.340 Although, many of our students are working at least halftime. 00:11:02.670 --> 00:11:06.720 Again, this comes back to my wanting to tell the story better so people know. 00:11:06.840 --> 00:11:10.265 One of the first things that high school students seem to learn is that they think 00:11:10.265 --> 00:11:14.255 all professors are really terrifying and hate you and want to force you to fail. 00:11:14.255 --> 00:11:17.255 And my students will say, you are really different than what the high 00:11:17.255 --> 00:11:19.015 school teachers told us you were like. 00:11:19.535 --> 00:11:20.615 And that's a part of it. 00:11:20.615 --> 00:11:24.485 But also the audience out there of adults who are suspicious about higher 00:11:24.485 --> 00:11:30.305 education, I want them to hear how hard we work to be inviting and help 00:11:30.305 --> 00:11:32.285 students belong and feel connected. 00:11:32.700 --> 00:11:36.120 Jennifer-Lee: Yeah, it's so interesting about all the misconceptions 00:11:36.120 --> 00:11:38.310 that happen in high school. 00:11:38.310 --> 00:11:42.330 I would also say too, that sometimes, and it depends where you are, is I just 00:11:42.330 --> 00:11:46.905 feel in general, and I don't know what country does it better, but I feel like 00:11:46.905 --> 00:11:52.755 sometimes high school doesn't prepare you enough either for college or university. 00:11:52.875 --> 00:11:54.194 Dr. Catherine Ross: You know, Jen, I'm really glad you said that. 00:11:54.194 --> 00:11:57.885 In fact, I recently wrote an article with a friend of mine who's a principal 00:11:57.885 --> 00:12:02.115 of a high school, who's also an English teacher, about this disconnect 00:12:02.115 --> 00:12:03.645 between high schools and colleges. 00:12:04.005 --> 00:12:07.275 And you know, the first thing I noticed when I went back to grad school, I'd been 00:12:07.275 --> 00:12:10.995 teaching at a boys preparatory school in Dallas before I went back to grad school. 00:12:10.995 --> 00:12:16.590 And I couldn't believe how different the critical work in English literature was 00:12:16.590 --> 00:12:19.560 at the university, 'cause of course it was cutting edge compared to what we were 00:12:19.680 --> 00:12:21.240 teaching our high school students to do. 00:12:21.660 --> 00:12:24.480 And I thought, oh my god, you know, this is not good. 00:12:24.480 --> 00:12:28.110 These parents are paying lots of money to write a kind of essay 00:12:28.110 --> 00:12:30.360 that was popular fifteen years ago. 00:12:30.630 --> 00:12:32.070 And I think that's one of the things that happens a lot. 00:12:32.070 --> 00:12:35.775 High school teachers, you know, they're remembering college from their days 00:12:35.775 --> 00:12:37.705 and there's not always that connection. 00:12:37.885 --> 00:12:41.505 And of course, I think high school teachers are often anxious about 00:12:41.595 --> 00:12:43.065 interfacing with us as well. 00:12:43.065 --> 00:12:48.315 So I would like, one of my big goals in the coming years, is to reach out to more 00:12:48.315 --> 00:12:52.845 and more high schools, to the students, the teachers, the parents, and to help 00:12:52.845 --> 00:12:55.930 them see how different college really is. 00:12:55.930 --> 00:12:56.709 It's friendlier. 00:12:57.380 --> 00:12:58.839 The work is very different. 00:12:59.140 --> 00:13:00.850 The lifestyle is different. 00:13:01.060 --> 00:13:04.030 And, you know, nothing can prepare you for that, no matter, I dunno 00:13:04.030 --> 00:13:06.880 if it's big in Canada, but in the US a lot of students are taking 00:13:06.880 --> 00:13:08.859 what they call dual credit courses. 00:13:09.239 --> 00:13:12.730 And these are college level courses, but a lot of times they're taking 00:13:12.730 --> 00:13:17.925 'em as a fourteen or fifteen year old student and they're not getting the 00:13:17.925 --> 00:13:22.925 experience of attending classes twice a week for an hour and twenty minutes. 00:13:23.105 --> 00:13:27.705 And having to manage their own time and figure out how to use the library 00:13:27.705 --> 00:13:28.740 in a new way, things like that. 00:13:29.835 --> 00:13:32.355 Jennifer-Lee: Well, there's a big shift that happens from going 00:13:32.355 --> 00:13:35.715 from, well, even high school, even if you don't end up going into 00:13:36.225 --> 00:13:37.785 post-secondary education right away. 00:13:38.025 --> 00:13:41.445 It's very different because I remember thinking it's like you go, you know, 00:13:41.445 --> 00:13:43.545 it's very cliquey in university. 00:13:43.725 --> 00:13:47.085 The teachers kind of treat you differently and then, all of a sudden, this thing 00:13:47.085 --> 00:13:50.235 you've been doing forever, you leave it and it's like you're an adult and 00:13:50.355 --> 00:13:52.135 everyone acts differently around you. 00:13:52.135 --> 00:13:53.095 Like it's way different. 00:13:53.115 --> 00:13:55.035 It's like, okay, you gotta get a job. 00:13:55.035 --> 00:13:55.844 Pay your bills. 00:13:56.115 --> 00:13:58.665 It's like everyone starts back at the same level. 00:13:58.665 --> 00:14:01.735 I remember going to college and it's like everything's out the window now. 00:14:01.735 --> 00:14:04.214 It is a very different feeling. 00:14:04.214 --> 00:14:05.655 Everyone treats you like an adult. 00:14:05.685 --> 00:14:08.895 No one's treating you with like, oh, you're a high school student. 00:14:08.954 --> 00:14:09.344 Dr. Catherine Ross: Yeah. 00:14:09.375 --> 00:14:09.555 Yeah. 00:14:09.735 --> 00:14:13.984 Well, you know, one of the series we're working on is I took some students 00:14:13.984 --> 00:14:17.425 from their freshman year in October and interviewed them, and then we 00:14:17.425 --> 00:14:20.574 interviewed them again in February and we just interviewed him again. 00:14:20.905 --> 00:14:24.415 The first one is, oh, you know, I was so anxious about the professors 00:14:24.415 --> 00:14:26.755 and I didn't know what advising was and all these sort of things. 00:14:26.935 --> 00:14:28.704 Now they're very cool. 00:14:28.704 --> 00:14:30.025 They've got it down. 00:14:30.085 --> 00:14:34.525 One of 'em has already become a resident advisor and he's grown a mustache 00:14:34.675 --> 00:14:38.814 and he looks like a real grownup and, but he also moves with greater 00:14:38.814 --> 00:14:41.515 assurance and he changed his major. 00:14:42.015 --> 00:14:43.815 He, he didn't know you could do that. 00:14:43.815 --> 00:14:47.145 And of course, actually in the conversation that we had from the very 00:14:47.145 --> 00:14:51.675 first interview, I'm sure I talked about that because I've experienced that a 00:14:51.675 --> 00:14:54.975 lot with students, is they come and think, oh, I wanna be an accountant, I 00:14:54.975 --> 00:14:56.895 wanna be a lawyer, I wanna be a doctor. 00:14:56.895 --> 00:15:00.705 And they take a philosophy class and they go, oh my god, that's so different. 00:15:00.705 --> 00:15:05.280 Or they take a psychology class or an English class and learn that 00:15:05.280 --> 00:15:07.170 there's something else they can do. 00:15:07.469 --> 00:15:11.250 The other thing that I think a lot of students don't realize is the name of 00:15:11.250 --> 00:15:14.640 your major doesn't mean that's what you'll end up doing in life, you know. 00:15:14.849 --> 00:15:18.599 That there's skills, especially with like an English major or philosophy 00:15:18.660 --> 00:15:22.050 major, which are in our college, you know, what job do you get with that. 00:15:22.050 --> 00:15:25.090 Well, you get about twenty-seven different kinds of jobs, because 00:15:25.090 --> 00:15:29.020 of the soft skills you learn about critical thinking and communicating and 00:15:29.020 --> 00:15:31.000 doing research and solving problems. 00:15:31.000 --> 00:15:33.520 And that's a big change for a lot of students is that they come to 00:15:33.520 --> 00:15:37.630 college thinking they're gonna prepare to be a certain kind of worker. 00:15:38.439 --> 00:15:42.850 And what they learn is that, boy, that's four years down the line, you've got 00:15:42.850 --> 00:15:44.230 some other things to learn how to do. 00:15:44.290 --> 00:15:45.510 Would you agree with that, Ashley? 00:15:45.579 --> 00:15:45.850 Ashley Worley: Yeah. 00:15:45.850 --> 00:15:46.189 I'd say so. 00:15:46.830 --> 00:15:49.170 Dr. Catherine Ross: Yeah, now Ashley didn't go to a high school. 00:15:49.290 --> 00:15:53.610 She is a product of homeschooling, which I think is part of the reason 00:15:53.610 --> 00:15:56.790 why she's so good at what she does, because she's a real self-starter. 00:15:57.330 --> 00:16:00.840 And a lot of the students that are not homeschooled, that have gone to our public 00:16:00.840 --> 00:16:03.780 high schools, and I don't mean to say anything ugly about our high schools, but 00:16:04.560 --> 00:16:08.430 they're more rigid and I think students don't have quite as much freedom the way 00:16:08.430 --> 00:16:10.590 Ashley had to sort of develop her skills. 00:16:11.100 --> 00:16:16.425 So yeah, going back to this, I really love the idea of parents of 00:16:16.425 --> 00:16:19.844 high school students, high school students, teachers in high schools, 00:16:20.055 --> 00:16:21.974 for them to be part of our audience. 00:16:22.545 --> 00:16:23.084 Neil McPhedran: That's great. 00:16:23.354 --> 00:16:29.385 I love how you're tackling this challenge, as we just described here. 00:16:29.535 --> 00:16:33.255 Why do you think podcasting is such a, a good medium to do this? 00:16:33.285 --> 00:16:36.195 Like what have you sort of over the last couple of years doing this, 00:16:36.465 --> 00:16:37.605 I'm sure you've seen some change. 00:16:37.635 --> 00:16:40.215 It started as a radio show, which is really interesting. 00:16:40.215 --> 00:16:42.965 I like to talk a little bit more about that, but just podcasting 00:16:42.965 --> 00:16:47.355 overall, like why do you think it's a good channel medium for this? 00:16:47.865 --> 00:16:51.595 Dr. Catherine Ross: Well, for one thing we know it's in that social 00:16:51.595 --> 00:16:53.935 media area that everybody uses now. 00:16:54.295 --> 00:16:57.415 Someone said the great thing about podcasting, it's something for your 00:16:57.415 --> 00:16:59.275 ears to do when your eyes are busy. 00:16:59.365 --> 00:16:59.575 Neil McPhedran: I like that. 00:17:00.085 --> 00:17:00.355 Dr. Catherine Ross: Yeah. 00:17:00.355 --> 00:17:02.155 It's a great, it's a great line, isn't it? 00:17:02.155 --> 00:17:02.305 Yeah. 00:17:02.305 --> 00:17:02.665 Neil McPhedran: Yes. 00:17:02.755 --> 00:17:03.444 I'm gonna use it. 00:17:03.685 --> 00:17:05.994 Dr. Catherine Ross: And we also, by the way, use that as an excuse to 00:17:05.994 --> 00:17:11.515 not worry about having to do video of our program, because whereas there 00:17:11.515 --> 00:17:14.994 may be some folks who wanna see what we look like and may be surprised 00:17:14.994 --> 00:17:16.765 the way we look, given our voices. 00:17:17.035 --> 00:17:22.155 But anyway, yeah, I, I really think that there's, well, I see students on their 00:17:22.155 --> 00:17:27.135 phones all day long, you know, with earphones or earbuds, and so there's that. 00:17:27.165 --> 00:17:31.725 It's just the way now, Ashley, would you agree that, that it's just so 00:17:32.475 --> 00:17:35.475 regularly used now by kids, by students? 00:17:35.535 --> 00:17:39.585 Ashley Worley: I think so, and I think the big advantage to trying to spread 00:17:39.585 --> 00:17:43.455 any kind of a message, but also this one through podcasting specifically, 00:17:43.755 --> 00:17:46.665 is just because of how accessible it is, like she was talking about. 00:17:46.755 --> 00:17:52.649 I know that there's a lot of entertainment focus in podcasting, as far as I can 00:17:52.649 --> 00:17:58.470 see, but using it also for education or having the advantage of this platform 00:17:58.470 --> 00:18:03.240 where you can blend the entertainment aspects and the educational material. 00:18:03.419 --> 00:18:07.379 It makes it really easy and a more digestible way of delivering 00:18:07.379 --> 00:18:08.520 that to students, I think. 00:18:08.585 --> 00:18:09.035 Dr. Catherine Ross: Yeah. 00:18:09.515 --> 00:18:13.295 Another thing we started doing is we started shortening our podcast. 00:18:13.325 --> 00:18:17.345 We originally were doing, we would interview for an hour and a half and we're 00:18:17.345 --> 00:18:18.815 cutting it back to twenty-five minutes. 00:18:18.815 --> 00:18:21.245 'Cause I think that's more accessible also. 00:18:21.245 --> 00:18:22.655 It's part of the story, isn't it? 00:18:22.925 --> 00:18:23.165 Neil McPhedran: Yeah. 00:18:23.165 --> 00:18:23.705 That's great. 00:18:23.975 --> 00:18:27.005 Jennifer-Lee: There's a stat recently, they said most podcasts should be 00:18:27.005 --> 00:18:28.550 between twenty to forty minutes. 00:18:28.685 --> 00:18:31.455 'Cause that's what the majority of people are listening to at the moment. 00:18:31.455 --> 00:18:34.165 I truly believe content dictates. 00:18:34.575 --> 00:18:37.445 And I think you could have a shorter podcast or a longer 00:18:37.445 --> 00:18:39.965 podcast depending on what you have. 00:18:40.264 --> 00:18:42.754 And it's interesting to go to the, you were talking about 00:18:42.754 --> 00:18:43.595 accessibility and stuff. 00:18:43.685 --> 00:18:46.595 There was a stat that I, I would like to find a newer stat on it, but a few 00:18:46.595 --> 00:18:50.345 years ago they said, most people listen to a podcast to learn something new. 00:18:50.910 --> 00:18:54.050 And that was eighty-five percent of the population for podcasting. 00:18:54.050 --> 00:18:58.620 So it's like, yes, entertainment's there, but most people are listening to learn. 00:18:59.250 --> 00:19:01.290 Dr. Catherine Ross: Well, and you know, one of the things I like about what 00:19:01.290 --> 00:19:05.250 Ashley does is, you know, she posts with description of what's coming. 00:19:05.595 --> 00:19:07.515 And so people know what they're listening to. 00:19:07.515 --> 00:19:11.325 We try to make a title that is clear about what you will learn. 00:19:11.325 --> 00:19:13.615 If you wanna learn this one, this is the one to learn from. 00:19:13.665 --> 00:19:16.395 Jennifer-Lee: I was gonna say, speaking of learning something 00:19:16.395 --> 00:19:18.675 new, I just had a question about this, 'cause it was interesting. 00:19:18.675 --> 00:19:20.475 I heard it yesterday. 00:19:20.475 --> 00:19:23.625 I was in a coffee shop and just ironically, two teachers were 00:19:23.625 --> 00:19:29.475 talking about using AI in English and written papers, usuing Grammarly, 00:19:29.665 --> 00:19:32.985 and how the students, it's changing the way that they write and they 00:19:32.985 --> 00:19:37.365 don't have those hardcore skills of learning English in a proper way. 00:19:37.574 --> 00:19:41.865 So I was just wondering, because obviously you're in the post-secondary space, maybe 00:19:41.865 --> 00:19:45.945 it's episode for your next season, are you gonna do anything on how to prepare 00:19:45.945 --> 00:19:50.254 to use AI properly when you're a student? 00:19:50.325 --> 00:19:53.024 Dr. Catherine Ross: I just finished sitting in for two days 00:19:53.235 --> 00:19:55.594 on the Harvard Open AI Summit. 00:19:56.054 --> 00:19:59.504 And heard the fellow from Princeton who, you know, it was that Princeton 00:19:59.835 --> 00:20:03.324 under his work with his grad students that created ChatGPT. 00:20:03.345 --> 00:20:07.410 And he gave a very interesting talk about what he thinks AI is going 00:20:07.410 --> 00:20:11.460 to do, and then different workshops about where we're gonna take it. 00:20:11.790 --> 00:20:13.050 I'm actually an early adopter. 00:20:13.050 --> 00:20:16.620 I've been using it ever since I started seeing what it could do. 00:20:17.010 --> 00:20:20.130 And it's my view that it will become as common in everybody's 00:20:20.130 --> 00:20:21.450 use as a calculator is. 00:20:21.690 --> 00:20:24.840 And I think one of the ways it's gonna do, and this is one of the areas that 00:20:24.840 --> 00:20:27.090 worries me, is it will write for you. 00:20:27.450 --> 00:20:30.480 And I know a, one of the things that came out in this workshop yesterday, with all 00:20:30.480 --> 00:20:35.540 these folks from Harvard and Cambridge and Stanford and MIT, was that a lot of people 00:20:35.540 --> 00:20:38.150 use it regularly to compose their emails. 00:20:38.840 --> 00:20:43.460 And I will admit to having taken an email that I was, you know, I remember one of 00:20:43.460 --> 00:20:47.720 them, I was really mad at my students for doing something and I composed this email. 00:20:47.720 --> 00:20:50.250 I thought, oh, if I send that, that's gonna really tick 'em off 00:20:50.270 --> 00:20:51.560 and it will not be successful. 00:20:51.710 --> 00:20:56.450 So I sent it through AI and it made it much better, you know, so that 00:20:56.450 --> 00:20:58.040 there's good reason to do that. 00:20:58.100 --> 00:21:02.060 Although the big worry for teachers of English is that students will not 00:21:02.060 --> 00:21:04.635 learn how to write and think through. 00:21:05.054 --> 00:21:09.615 The thing I like about AI is that it predicts and it surveys what 00:21:09.615 --> 00:21:11.145 is out there in general usage. 00:21:11.415 --> 00:21:14.655 One of the hardest things for students to learn how to write is to write 00:21:14.655 --> 00:21:17.175 like more sophisticated writers write. 00:21:17.895 --> 00:21:21.959 And so that's really what AI does when you ask it to write something, 00:21:22.169 --> 00:21:26.610 it will pull on the sort of common vernacular, which is usually a much more 00:21:26.610 --> 00:21:30.810 sophisticated level than high school students and college students are used to. 00:21:31.260 --> 00:21:34.199 Yes, there's a big issue about using it ethically. 00:21:34.500 --> 00:21:38.820 It's biased, and they pointed that out in one of the workshops, how biased it could 00:21:38.820 --> 00:21:41.250 be, kind of western white world bias. 00:21:41.650 --> 00:21:45.885 But it's ubiquitous already and it's going to be a part of our life. 00:21:45.885 --> 00:21:50.325 And so I'm teaching, I have all my students take their first assignment 00:21:50.775 --> 00:21:56.595 and before they write it themselves, ask AI to write it and then say, 00:21:56.595 --> 00:21:58.335 okay, now, don't look at that. 00:21:58.635 --> 00:21:59.355 Put that aside. 00:21:59.355 --> 00:22:00.375 And now you write it. 00:22:00.375 --> 00:22:03.075 And we'll compare them, so they can see. 00:22:03.315 --> 00:22:04.875 But yeah, it's gonna be a big problem. 00:22:04.875 --> 00:22:05.745 And you know, it's interesting. 00:22:06.225 --> 00:22:08.534 Some folks are saying, no AI, period. 00:22:08.534 --> 00:22:09.465 It's a terrible thing. 00:22:09.945 --> 00:22:11.264 I think that's a big mistake. 00:22:11.504 --> 00:22:12.215 Neil McPhedran: Agreed. 00:22:14.294 --> 00:22:15.225 You gotta, I think you're right. 00:22:15.225 --> 00:22:16.455 It's a good way to look at it. 00:22:16.455 --> 00:22:18.794 It's gonna be ubiquitous like the calculator is. 00:22:18.794 --> 00:22:21.375 There was a lot of pushback over that, wasn't there. 00:22:21.425 --> 00:22:22.825 I wasn't around we, we weren't around then. 00:22:22.845 --> 00:22:24.885 But I mean, I've read about that, so, yeah. 00:22:24.889 --> 00:22:27.524 Dr. Catherine Ross: Well I do think, you know, the fear is that 00:22:27.524 --> 00:22:31.105 people will not learn how to do the things that AI does for them. 00:22:31.525 --> 00:22:35.425 And that's gonna be my argument to them is that, yes, AI will do it for you, 00:22:35.695 --> 00:22:40.975 but you need to be able to do it too and be able to also make it your own. 00:22:41.004 --> 00:22:45.355 Because, so for example, this morning I was writing an email to the provost about 00:22:45.535 --> 00:22:50.024 a problem I have with a funding for my fellowship and I wrote two versions on 00:22:50.024 --> 00:22:54.074 my own and then I ran it through ChatGPT and I still like mine better, you know? 00:22:54.375 --> 00:23:00.344 But I do think it can help students see the difference between a kind of clunky, 00:23:00.524 --> 00:23:06.165 not very elegantly phrased sentence, and a more elevated level of sentence 00:23:06.254 --> 00:23:07.814 structure that they can start imitating. 00:23:09.375 --> 00:23:12.735 Jennifer-Lee: See, this is gonna be like a four part podcast 00:23:12.764 --> 00:23:15.534 episode on the Dr. Ross show. 00:23:15.794 --> 00:23:16.125 Neil McPhedran: Yeah. 00:23:16.215 --> 00:23:17.445 Dr. Catherine Ross: Well, let me add one other thing. 00:23:17.715 --> 00:23:22.064 I'm part of a, the American College University Association has got a 00:23:22.064 --> 00:23:27.495 national institute on AI this, starting this month, and I'm part of that. 00:23:27.495 --> 00:23:28.845 There're four of us at UT Tyler. 00:23:28.845 --> 00:23:29.925 I've been asked to be part of that. 00:23:30.044 --> 00:23:33.604 So I'll be somebody you can consult about AI. 00:23:33.955 --> 00:23:37.814 Because I'm really looking forward to what this big consortium 00:23:37.814 --> 00:23:38.620 is gonna be able to teach me. 00:23:40.500 --> 00:23:44.180 Neil McPhedran: I am going to do a plug here for another podcast that we work 00:23:44.180 --> 00:23:47.000 with which is called Normal Curves. 00:23:47.090 --> 00:23:51.130 And it's two statistics professors that have just launched a podcast. 00:23:51.150 --> 00:23:52.230 It's a really good podcast. 00:23:52.620 --> 00:23:56.670 Their episode this past Monday, so if you're listening to this, that would 00:23:56.670 --> 00:24:00.990 be sort of August 12th basically that dropped, is there's the MIT study 00:24:00.990 --> 00:24:04.530 that came out about a month ago that was basically saying, your brain 00:24:04.530 --> 00:24:08.790 is mush on AI and it's ruining our brains and our critical thinking. 00:24:09.660 --> 00:24:13.890 They rip the paper apart 'cause it's actually really bad science of the paper. 00:24:13.890 --> 00:24:15.570 So that's not a true proposition. 00:24:15.570 --> 00:24:16.800 But anyway, listen to the episode. 00:24:16.800 --> 00:24:17.400 It's really good. 00:24:17.400 --> 00:24:18.240 It's super interesting. 00:24:18.240 --> 00:24:19.290 Dr. Catherine Ross: I will, I'm glad to know that. 00:24:19.295 --> 00:24:20.515 Neil McPhedran: Normal, normal curves. 00:24:21.015 --> 00:24:24.574 I, I wanna just circle back to the show though, because I like how you've 00:24:24.604 --> 00:24:26.554 anchored everything in a question. 00:24:26.764 --> 00:24:29.405 And back to your point about the title, you're totally right. 00:24:29.435 --> 00:24:30.935 You guys do a good job with that. 00:24:30.995 --> 00:24:34.415 So instead of tackling a theme and doing an episode about a theme, you're 00:24:34.415 --> 00:24:37.955 still doing that, but you've brought it to a question to start with. 00:24:38.495 --> 00:24:39.905 I like that format a lot. 00:24:39.905 --> 00:24:43.955 You, maybe just sort of, for someone who's thinking about tackling the same 00:24:43.955 --> 00:24:49.470 problem or coming up with a show for family and students like you have. 00:24:49.710 --> 00:24:51.540 Am I right about anchoring it in a question? 00:24:51.540 --> 00:24:52.920 It seems like a really good strategy. 00:24:52.950 --> 00:24:55.860 Dr. Catherine Ross: Well, I, we kind of fell into it to be honest, but it 00:24:55.860 --> 00:25:00.629 actually fits with a kind of basic teaching principle, which is that 00:25:00.810 --> 00:25:04.980 the really best way to focus a course is to have it focus on questions. 00:25:05.220 --> 00:25:06.090 Big questions. 00:25:06.270 --> 00:25:08.460 Rather than saying, I'm gonna tell you this. 00:25:08.760 --> 00:25:10.260 Let me ask you a question. 00:25:10.290 --> 00:25:12.630 You know, what makes for a meaningful life? 00:25:13.020 --> 00:25:15.480 What makes a really effective novel? 00:25:15.720 --> 00:25:18.180 Why do people go to war? 00:25:18.210 --> 00:25:20.610 I mean, I'm making really big ones there, but you can make 00:25:20.610 --> 00:25:21.780 them more and more nuanced. 00:25:22.170 --> 00:25:25.920 And when you ask a question, then you're inviting people in. 00:25:26.340 --> 00:25:31.230 Part of my job is to answer the question, but also to get other people to answer it. 00:25:31.230 --> 00:25:35.085 So, for example, one of the early ones with my first producer, 00:25:35.085 --> 00:25:40.125 Nathan, who was very upset about politics, and so I brought in 00:25:40.125 --> 00:25:41.504 the political science professor. 00:25:41.865 --> 00:25:45.495 And he was able to, you know, why is it so crazy right now? 00:25:45.735 --> 00:25:48.014 Professor Bryant could talk to him about that. 00:25:48.375 --> 00:25:51.705 Did the same thing with, he was very upset about the economic situation. 00:25:51.705 --> 00:25:55.785 I brought in an economics professor and she was able to explain to 00:25:55.785 --> 00:25:58.575 him about the ebb and flow of economies and things like that. 00:25:58.575 --> 00:26:01.274 I don't think he was convinced at all, but we gave him the 00:26:01.274 --> 00:26:03.585 opportunity to ask his questions. 00:26:04.225 --> 00:26:09.615 Jennifer-Lee: I think a lot of higher ed could really use yours 00:26:09.615 --> 00:26:12.565 as an example to take a question and build a topic around it. 00:26:12.565 --> 00:26:16.395 Because I think a lot of the times when people, and this goes for any podcasters, 00:26:16.395 --> 00:26:20.415 a lot of times when people are doing a podcast, specifically when it's related to 00:26:20.415 --> 00:26:26.715 an institution or a business or a brand, they try to think of titles and topics 00:26:26.715 --> 00:26:31.485 that are not necessarily searchable, or things that people are inquiring about. 00:26:31.725 --> 00:26:35.804 Or they have a great topic, but then they try to do a title that's too sexy 00:26:36.165 --> 00:26:40.260 and they like spend like twenty minutes trying to crack down on the title, and 00:26:40.260 --> 00:26:41.820 it's like, no, just tell me what it is. 00:26:42.090 --> 00:26:43.440 Am I gonna learn how to do math? 00:26:43.440 --> 00:26:46.680 Because that's what you gotta remember when I'm, I am the listener, 00:26:46.680 --> 00:26:47.910 I'm searching for these topics. 00:26:47.940 --> 00:26:48.840 I wanna know why. 00:26:49.200 --> 00:26:50.740 Like, I love your topics. 00:26:50.760 --> 00:26:51.930 Like they're so easy. 00:26:51.990 --> 00:26:55.560 And now I know that Ashley was the inspiration probably for this, but how 00:26:55.560 --> 00:26:57.620 can homeschoolers prepare for college? 00:26:57.930 --> 00:26:58.940 Very straightforward. 00:26:59.215 --> 00:26:59.935 I know what I'm gonna get. 00:27:00.515 --> 00:27:02.285 Ashley, did she do a good job on that one? 00:27:02.795 --> 00:27:04.385 Ashley Worley: I think it was a fun episode. 00:27:04.385 --> 00:27:08.615 We had several of my friends, one of whom I was at the same homeschool co-op 00:27:08.615 --> 00:27:10.265 with for college prep in high school. 00:27:10.685 --> 00:27:13.685 We all got to come and have a conversation about that together. 00:27:13.715 --> 00:27:18.755 But yeah, I think the questions do help with keeping on a topic and making 00:27:18.755 --> 00:27:22.355 sure that we're giving something very practical and that's useful to the 00:27:22.355 --> 00:27:23.740 audience member, whoever they might be. 00:27:24.705 --> 00:27:28.005 Dr. Catherine Ross: And also in line with this notion of I want to dispel 00:27:28.005 --> 00:27:29.595 misconceptions about higher education. 00:27:29.625 --> 00:27:33.375 When I got ready to introduce Ashley at the PodCon in our workshop, 00:27:33.615 --> 00:27:37.795 she asked me not to identify her as a homeschooled student. 00:27:38.455 --> 00:27:41.639 And the reason is that there's a lot of negativity about that. 00:27:41.939 --> 00:27:47.189 And, you know, she doesn't come from the fringe types of folks who do 00:27:47.520 --> 00:27:50.790 homeschooling, but she was afraid that that would give the wrong impression. 00:27:50.909 --> 00:27:54.810 And once you met her, you knew, I mean, and my god, this girl has 00:27:54.810 --> 00:27:58.800 done, her work ethic is unbelievable. 00:27:59.149 --> 00:28:02.670 And I'll add this, when we went to the conference, her parents came with us. 00:28:03.180 --> 00:28:06.389 And I got to meet her parents and now I know why she's so good, 00:28:06.420 --> 00:28:07.620 'cause they're just wonderful. 00:28:07.860 --> 00:28:11.430 Her father was actually an actor in New York, in LA for a while. 00:28:11.520 --> 00:28:14.730 Before we did our presentation, we went up to their hotel room and 00:28:14.730 --> 00:28:17.040 said, would you all listen to us and make sure we got this right? 00:28:17.129 --> 00:28:19.440 And what was really charming is her father says, well, I didn't 00:28:19.440 --> 00:28:20.879 expect it to be that good. 00:28:21.524 --> 00:28:25.004 You know, I've got a really high standard and, and that really 00:28:25.064 --> 00:28:29.115 lifted our wings because we weren't sure how it come across. 00:28:29.115 --> 00:28:34.094 So anyway, yeah, I think that whenever we can answer questions and help 00:28:34.094 --> 00:28:38.415 people out of confusion, I mean, that's what my whole job is as a 00:28:38.415 --> 00:28:40.215 professor, that's what I'm always doing. 00:28:40.215 --> 00:28:43.334 You know, you read a novel and, you know, or this chapter, and why did that 00:28:43.334 --> 00:28:45.495 character do that ridiculous thing? 00:28:45.495 --> 00:28:47.475 Or why did the writer write it that way? 00:28:47.475 --> 00:28:49.005 And what does this mean? 00:28:49.005 --> 00:28:54.780 And so explaining all of that is sort of what I do. 00:28:55.410 --> 00:28:56.460 Neil McPhedran: Yeah, I think it's excellent. 00:28:56.460 --> 00:29:00.450 I mean, when you first introduced yourself and your show, the title and 00:29:00.450 --> 00:29:04.110 your name, it works well together and I got an idea what the show was, and 00:29:04.470 --> 00:29:06.300 so it's very memorable and I like it. 00:29:06.330 --> 00:29:09.240 You mentioned a few minutes ago in our conversation when you came back 00:29:09.240 --> 00:29:13.980 from PodCon, you went to the dean and you talked about sort of opening up 00:29:13.980 --> 00:29:18.440 the aperture on podcasting overall, and now with the change in the radio 00:29:18.440 --> 00:29:20.420 station and the equipment or whatever. 00:29:20.720 --> 00:29:23.330 Is there anything you can sort of give us insight into there? 00:29:23.330 --> 00:29:24.230 I think that's interesting. 00:29:24.590 --> 00:29:26.630 Where are you guys going with podcasting then in general? 00:29:26.630 --> 00:29:29.120 Dr. Catherine Ross: Well, and again, this is a little tricky because I'm 00:29:29.120 --> 00:29:32.870 in the English department and he's tasked the communications department 00:29:33.140 --> 00:29:37.820 with developing things, but I think they look at my podcast as sort 00:29:37.820 --> 00:29:39.500 of a model for people to follow. 00:29:39.740 --> 00:29:42.860 We now have a professor, in fact, I passed out her cards. 00:29:43.100 --> 00:29:44.930 It's called Averse Reaction. 00:29:45.754 --> 00:29:48.245 It's one of the English professors, she's an Americanist. 00:29:48.514 --> 00:29:50.104 It's about verse and poetry. 00:29:50.135 --> 00:29:54.304 Uh, and so she did that and it's, as you say, kind of an 00:29:54.304 --> 00:29:56.314 evergreen freestanding thing. 00:29:56.605 --> 00:30:01.145 The professor who came to talk about politics is working on a political, 00:30:01.145 --> 00:30:04.594 and although honestly, right now with the political situation in 00:30:04.594 --> 00:30:07.774 the state of Texas, I'm not sure he's gonna do that for a while. 00:30:08.205 --> 00:30:12.975 Although I would love for him to do it because he's so sensible and reasoned. 00:30:13.245 --> 00:30:17.745 It would be really nice to have somebody talk about politics who isn't, you 00:30:17.745 --> 00:30:23.545 know, real red or real blue and, you know, kind of over the top angry. 00:30:24.360 --> 00:30:27.270 Neil McPhedran: We need way more sensibility and reasonability, please. 00:30:27.270 --> 00:30:27.600 Yes. 00:30:27.629 --> 00:30:28.080 Dr. Catherine Ross: Right. 00:30:28.080 --> 00:30:34.020 But to go back to your question, the dean has charged the department and one 00:30:34.020 --> 00:30:38.350 of the people, when we lost the radio station, several employees had to go too. 00:30:38.700 --> 00:30:43.320 But we did keep the director of that who, her name is Lori Allen, and she 00:30:43.320 --> 00:30:46.860 is a very, very fine public speaker. 00:30:47.159 --> 00:30:48.720 She's got all these awards for that. 00:30:48.720 --> 00:30:50.070 There's some sort of group she belongs to. 00:30:50.129 --> 00:30:55.635 And she was a television news reader in Dallas and I think in Colorado, 00:30:56.085 --> 00:31:00.165 and so she's remained on and so she's the person who we report to now, 00:31:00.524 --> 00:31:05.805 and that will be her job soon is to start, you know, building that out. 00:31:06.225 --> 00:31:11.805 But it'll be kind of up to the faculty and then what students they can recruit. 00:31:11.805 --> 00:31:16.095 Of course, I wanted the dean to understand that we could make a good 00:31:16.095 --> 00:31:21.165 argument for students using it as professional line item on their resumes. 00:31:21.260 --> 00:31:21.550 Neil McPhedran: Yeah. 00:31:21.555 --> 00:31:21.735 Yeah. 00:31:21.945 --> 00:31:24.525 Dr. Catherine Ross: And you know the folks at Stanford, your keynote 00:31:24.525 --> 00:31:25.725 speaker, he talked about that. 00:31:25.725 --> 00:31:27.675 He's got all sorts of volunteers. 00:31:27.675 --> 00:31:28.095 Yeah. 00:31:28.275 --> 00:31:28.545 Neil McPhedran: Yep. 00:31:28.905 --> 00:31:33.105 Matt has, you know, he gets approached for interns, like a lot of professors 00:31:33.105 --> 00:31:35.655 do, but he puts them to work on the show. 00:31:35.955 --> 00:31:38.895 And then to your point, they use that as part of their CV. 00:31:38.895 --> 00:31:41.445 They're doing a real job on a show that they can point to. 00:31:41.660 --> 00:31:42.830 It's everywhere, right? 00:31:42.830 --> 00:31:44.520 So I completely agree with you. 00:31:44.520 --> 00:31:50.390 It's not just a tool for communicating, but it's also a platform for, you 00:31:50.390 --> 00:31:55.640 know, your show as a prime example for students to get real experience and 00:31:55.730 --> 00:31:57.710 have a real job in the in, in your case. 00:31:57.710 --> 00:31:58.640 Dr. Catherine Ross: Well, and I think Ashley will tell you 00:31:58.640 --> 00:31:59.840 that she has a lot of fun. 00:32:00.290 --> 00:32:04.635 Ashley Worley: Yeah, it's fun and I mean, honestly, when do you get the 00:32:04.635 --> 00:32:09.915 opportunity to get paid to do all this kinds of just straight up fun stuff. 00:32:09.915 --> 00:32:13.665 Like you can talk to all these various kinds of people and then 00:32:13.665 --> 00:32:15.044 listen back to the conversations. 00:32:15.044 --> 00:32:16.274 I find editing fun. 00:32:16.274 --> 00:32:18.995 I'm a mass comm student, and so that's a big part of what I do. 00:32:19.475 --> 00:32:23.594 So yeah, it was a crazy amazing opportunity when this 00:32:23.594 --> 00:32:25.125 became like a paid position. 00:32:25.365 --> 00:32:31.215 Because I know also a lot of podcasts just start with a microphone and a laptop 00:32:31.215 --> 00:32:34.575 in somebody's bedroom, and you have to work at it for a long time before 00:32:34.575 --> 00:32:36.284 that ever becomes a paid opportunity. 00:32:36.284 --> 00:32:37.725 So I felt very, very lucky. 00:32:38.054 --> 00:32:40.875 Dr. Catherine Ross: Yeah, I'm not sure how many paid opportunities we'll have. 00:32:41.294 --> 00:32:45.554 The dean was happy with the idea on the one hand of offering it as a 00:32:45.554 --> 00:32:49.995 volunteer opportunity, but I think for Ashley, starting out as a volunteer 00:32:49.995 --> 00:32:54.660 and then getting good at it, we were able to move it into a paid position. 00:32:54.660 --> 00:32:55.690 Neil McPhedran: Yeah, yeah. 00:32:56.420 --> 00:32:58.440 I think it's great that she's part of the show. 00:32:58.440 --> 00:33:01.320 I think it's great that you have this, the, the, you know, you 00:33:01.320 --> 00:33:03.750 have a co-host that's a student. 00:33:04.440 --> 00:33:09.540 'Cause I think that lends probably a lot of credibility to the perspective, 00:33:09.540 --> 00:33:13.725 like the high school students or the new students to hear the 00:33:13.905 --> 00:33:16.215 co-host is, is a student too, right? 00:33:16.215 --> 00:33:18.074 So I think that's great, that's a great dynamic. 00:33:18.105 --> 00:33:20.715 Dr. Catherine Ross: Well, and if you listen to the episode just dropped 00:33:20.715 --> 00:33:24.465 and the one after that, we did a tip, there are two tip episodes. 00:33:24.465 --> 00:33:26.865 The second one is about tips on how to make friends. 00:33:27.195 --> 00:33:30.445 We had so much fun doing 'em, and I remember after, Ashley 00:33:30.445 --> 00:33:32.895 will edit it and throw it back to me and say, what do you think? 00:33:32.895 --> 00:33:34.935 And I'll say, well, let's cut this out and dah, dah, dah, dah. 00:33:35.294 --> 00:33:36.675 I was, I really enjoyed it. 00:33:36.675 --> 00:33:39.495 You know, sometimes when I'm listening to it after we've already done, it's kinda 00:33:39.495 --> 00:33:41.445 like, okay, well that's pretty good. 00:33:42.115 --> 00:33:44.215 Actually I got kind of a kick out of listening to it. 00:33:44.215 --> 00:33:47.784 I felt like we've really, over the year we've really developed 00:33:47.784 --> 00:33:50.155 a rapport that I enjoy very much. 00:33:50.155 --> 00:33:54.925 And I will add going to the PodCon conference was part of that because 00:33:54.925 --> 00:33:58.284 we had such a good time there and you know, eating breakfast 00:33:58.284 --> 00:33:59.485 with her parents was a hoot. 00:33:59.544 --> 00:34:01.915 I must tell you, you should all meet her parents. 00:34:02.665 --> 00:34:04.495 Ashley Worley: I hadn't planned on being behind the mic. 00:34:04.495 --> 00:34:06.925 I think she's really the impetus. 00:34:06.925 --> 00:34:08.904 You saw her dragging me into this interview. 00:34:09.085 --> 00:34:10.554 I was like, cool, your mic's set up. 00:34:10.554 --> 00:34:10.964 Let's, you know. 00:34:12.074 --> 00:34:12.435 Neil McPhedran: It's great. 00:34:12.435 --> 00:34:12.855 I love it. 00:34:12.855 --> 00:34:14.114 I love how this has ended up. 00:34:14.114 --> 00:34:14.884 It's perfect. 00:34:14.884 --> 00:34:15.605 It's really good. 00:34:15.654 --> 00:34:17.924 Dr. Catherine Ross: I told her I needed her to set up. 00:34:17.924 --> 00:34:21.375 I didn't use Squadcast, I had to borrow a mic from our digital design studio, 00:34:21.375 --> 00:34:25.725 and I told her all that, but I really wanted to make sure she got here because 00:34:25.804 --> 00:34:29.955 honestly, if you're gonna give advice to folks out there in the world of college or 00:34:29.955 --> 00:34:34.274 university broadcasting, maybe even high schools, the companionship of the faculty 00:34:34.274 --> 00:34:36.675 to the student is one of the big products. 00:34:36.945 --> 00:34:39.585 But she brings, you know, we plan our ideas together. 00:34:39.585 --> 00:34:41.715 We talk about, well, what do you think the students would like? 00:34:42.195 --> 00:34:46.815 She brought up, we have a thing called rec sports and also eSports, and I didn't 00:34:46.815 --> 00:34:51.195 know anything about eSports, and so we've got a episode on both of those. 00:34:51.765 --> 00:34:52.145 Neil McPhedran: Great. 00:34:52.475 --> 00:34:55.260 My son's a big gamer, so I understand the eSports thing. 00:34:55.260 --> 00:34:55.710 Dr. Catherine Ross: Oh, do you? 00:34:55.890 --> 00:34:56.295 Neil McPhedran: There you go. 00:34:56.370 --> 00:35:00.870 So, well, it's been fantastic to chat with both of you today and thank you so 00:35:00.870 --> 00:35:02.940 much for sharing a few things with us. 00:35:03.090 --> 00:35:05.940 Can I leave you with a tip for your YouTube channel, and maybe this 00:35:05.940 --> 00:35:07.470 is for other listeners out there? 00:35:07.975 --> 00:35:09.180 Dr. Catherine Ross: Absolutely, absolutely. 00:35:09.240 --> 00:35:12.150 Neil McPhedran: About six months ago, they, YouTube provided the 00:35:12.150 --> 00:35:17.700 ability to actually designate, there's a podcast tab, so you're 00:35:17.700 --> 00:35:20.220 basically calling your show a podcast. 00:35:20.220 --> 00:35:24.450 You're telling YouTube it's a podcast and it categorizes it differently, and then it 00:35:24.450 --> 00:35:28.890 puts the podcast in the tab where's shorts and videos and everything in the tab. 00:35:29.069 --> 00:35:31.230 Actually adds it as a podcast in there. 00:35:31.770 --> 00:35:36.465 So then the algorithms start to recognize it as a podcast and then 00:35:36.465 --> 00:35:39.075 put it in the mix of podcast shows. 00:35:39.195 --> 00:35:42.225 What it does immediately is it just sort of signals something very 00:35:42.225 --> 00:35:44.415 differently to YouTube as well. 00:35:44.605 --> 00:35:46.365 YouTube is actually two apps, right? 00:35:46.365 --> 00:35:48.795 It's the main app, which we're all familiar with, and then there's a 00:35:48.795 --> 00:35:53.505 billion people use YouTube music, which is the competitor to Spotify, 00:35:53.505 --> 00:35:55.335 so it's especially important for that. 00:35:55.845 --> 00:36:00.360 Because then they have a full podcast section in that app, and then 00:36:00.420 --> 00:36:03.029 your show starts to index in that. 00:36:03.029 --> 00:36:06.270 Right now, it's not indexing in the podcast component, 00:36:06.270 --> 00:36:07.590 although it's a podcast. 00:36:07.590 --> 00:36:08.259 Dr. Catherine Ross: That's great. 00:36:08.259 --> 00:36:11.825 We, as soon as we get off of this, we're gonna fix that right now. 00:36:11.875 --> 00:36:12.365 Neil McPhedran: That's right. 00:36:12.365 --> 00:36:13.174 You know what? 00:36:13.365 --> 00:36:17.310 This is, we'll put in our show notes, there's a really good link to YouTube 00:36:17.400 --> 00:36:19.590 of setting up a podcast in YouTube. 00:36:19.620 --> 00:36:22.710 We'll make sure we, for listeners, we'll make sure we put that in the show notes. 00:36:23.055 --> 00:36:23.355 Ashley Worley: Great. 00:36:23.985 --> 00:36:25.065 Neil McPhedran: Wonderful to have you guys. 00:36:25.065 --> 00:36:26.055 Thank you so much for joining us. 00:36:26.055 --> 00:36:26.880 Dr. Catherine Ross: It was fun talking to you. 00:36:26.880 --> 00:36:27.080 Thank you. 00:36:27.220 --> 00:36:27.460 See you again. 00:36:29.565 --> 00:36:29.985 Neil McPhedran: Jen. 00:36:30.135 --> 00:36:30.825 Loved that. 00:36:31.545 --> 00:36:32.955 Loved our conversation. 00:36:33.375 --> 00:36:37.095 I wish she was my professor when I was at university taking English, 00:36:37.095 --> 00:36:38.295 struggling through English. 00:36:38.295 --> 00:36:40.455 I think she would've been the kind of the professor I would've 00:36:40.455 --> 00:36:42.315 wanted to have learned from. 00:36:43.175 --> 00:36:45.305 Yeah, really, really enjoyed that conversation. 00:36:45.335 --> 00:36:46.235 Learned a lot. 00:36:46.295 --> 00:36:52.145 And there is some really, just as we said kind of off the top, and as I 00:36:52.145 --> 00:36:57.500 think you've probably heard through the interview, like what a dynamic that Dr. 00:36:57.500 --> 00:37:03.455 Ross and Ashley have, and obviously that just makes the show that much better. 00:37:04.335 --> 00:37:05.985 Jennifer-Lee: Yeah, and I love that. 00:37:06.015 --> 00:37:09.885 You can just see the compliment each other so perfectly, so it was great. 00:37:09.885 --> 00:37:11.055 And we knew that from the start. 00:37:11.055 --> 00:37:14.674 When you and I met them the night before the PodCon show when we did our little 00:37:14.674 --> 00:37:18.105 mixer, just so kind and lovely energy. 00:37:18.165 --> 00:37:18.315 Neil McPhedran: Yeah. 00:37:18.615 --> 00:37:21.285 I think it's just a great podcast theme. 00:37:21.285 --> 00:37:24.675 A love the name of it as we talked about. 00:37:24.705 --> 00:37:30.690 I think it's a useful resource for perspective students, not necessarily 00:37:30.690 --> 00:37:36.570 going to the University of Texas, but I also think it could be the kind of podcast 00:37:36.630 --> 00:37:44.895 that other professors, students, whatnot, could mimic for their schools as well, 00:37:44.895 --> 00:37:48.435 if you really wanna get into it being more specific about the school itself. 00:37:48.464 --> 00:37:51.464 So I think there's a lot of really cool things that we as 00:37:51.464 --> 00:37:57.540 higher education podcasters could learn from the ask Dr. Ross show. 00:37:58.020 --> 00:37:58.440 Jennifer-Lee: Agree. 00:37:58.440 --> 00:38:00.180 It's not limited, just there. 00:38:00.180 --> 00:38:03.029 So these things are things that other students need to know. 00:38:03.029 --> 00:38:06.120 Like I want to know what is the secret to good grades. 00:38:06.450 --> 00:38:08.250 I feel like that's an amazing topic. 00:38:08.310 --> 00:38:08.879 Neil McPhedran: You're done. 00:38:08.879 --> 00:38:10.319 You already did university. 00:38:10.650 --> 00:38:13.015 Jennifer-Lee: I did, but I wish I knew that back in the day. 00:38:14.235 --> 00:38:19.335 Anyway, on that note, thank you for tuning into the Continuing Studies podcast, a 00:38:19.335 --> 00:38:21.585 podcast for higher education podcasters. 00:38:21.945 --> 00:38:25.035 We hope you found this episode informative and inspiring. 00:38:25.035 --> 00:38:27.855 If you enjoyed the show, we encourage you to follow and subscribe to the 00:38:27.855 --> 00:38:31.245 podcast on your preferred platform, so you'll never miss an episode. 00:38:31.245 --> 00:38:35.115 But if you found this episode particularly valuable, please consider 00:38:35.115 --> 00:38:38.120 sharing it with your friends and colleagues who also might be interested 00:38:38.120 --> 00:38:39.649 in a higher education podcast. 00:38:39.950 --> 00:38:45.049 We also invite you to join your peers on HigherEdPods.com, where you can connect 00:38:45.049 --> 00:38:49.700 with other podcasters in higher education and learn from others in the field. 00:38:49.700 --> 00:38:51.710 Thank you for being part of our community. 00:38:51.710 --> 00:38:55.069 We look forward to continuing to bring you valuable insights and conversations 00:38:55.069 --> 00:38:56.890 around higher education podcasts. 00:38:57.319 --> 00:38:58.490 See you in the next episode.