00:00:08:13 - 00:00:09:11 Welcome back to M&A Corner, 00:00:09:11 - 00:00:10:19 which is a special edition today, 00:00:10:19 - 00:00:11:19 because we'll be speaking about 00:00:11:19 - 00:00:13:08 more than just M&A. 00:00:13:08 - 00:00:15:11 I'm joined by two of my colleagues, Josh Weismer, 00:00:15:11 - 00:00:16:03 who heads our 00:00:16:03 - 00:00:17:16 equity capital markets franchise, 00:00:17:16 - 00:00:19:02 and Jessica Goldstein, 00:00:19:02 - 00:00:21:02 who's a partner within our M&A practice. 00:00:21:17 - 00:00:23:05 Nice to have you both join us today. 00:00:23:13 - 00:00:24:16 Thanks for having us. 00:00:24:19 - 00:00:25:21 I thought it'd be a nice way to start 00:00:25:21 - 00:00:26:21 to talk a little bit about 00:00:26:21 - 00:00:28:08 how each of your businesses 00:00:28:08 - 00:00:31:00 has performed over the course of 2026. 00:00:31:00 - 00:00:35:10 Josh, equity capital markets appear to have been on fire over the last several months. 00:00:35:10 - 00:00:39:05 Could you talk a little bit about what the current dynamic is within the equity capital markets? 00:00:39:11 - 00:00:40:14 Yeah, sure, Kevin. 00:00:40:14 - 00:00:41:01 Thanks. 00:00:42:03 - 00:00:46:13 Year to date, things have been phenomenal if you look at the year as a whole. 00:00:46:13 - 00:00:53:10 Right now, we're up significantly year-over-year across all products, IPOs, follow-ons, converts. 00:00:53:10 - 00:01:00:03 The IPO market is close to where we were in the all-time high of 2021 in terms of deal volume, 00:01:00:03 - 00:01:03:21 with very large transactions getting done. 00:01:03:21 - 00:01:10:08 The convert market, with volatility being where it has been and rates being where they are headed 00:01:10:08 - 00:01:15:09 and have come over the course of the year, have been very strong. 00:01:15:09 - 00:01:20:04 But over the last four to six weeks, we've definitely seen a little bit of a hiccup 00:01:20:04 - 00:01:24:11 just in terms of investor sentiment and pushback on valuation. 00:01:24:11 - 00:01:29:02 I think we're seeing a little bit of a pause right now and a consolidation of gains, 00:01:29:02 - 00:01:32:12 kind of like you're seeing in the secondary market. 00:01:32:12 - 00:01:37:21 Over the last couple of weeks, we've seen a number of IPOs actually pull their 00:01:37:21 - 00:01:44:09 transaction after marketing on the road and not necessarily getting the valuation or the investor 00:01:44:09 - 00:01:48:08 makeup they wanted in terms of who was buying the transaction. 00:01:48:08 - 00:01:49:21 So we've seen a couple of those deals 00:01:49:21 - 00:01:54:21 put themselves on the shelf and decide to come back for a better day. 00:01:54:21 - 00:01:59:17 On the convert side, we're also starting to see a little bit of pushback from the market because 00:01:59:17 - 00:02:05:20 the terms that were being achieved by corporate issuers were incredibly attractive 00:02:05:20 - 00:02:08:09 relative to what we've seen historically. 00:02:08:09 - 00:02:13:06 Investors were willing to pay incredible levels of volatility for these convertibles. 00:02:13:06 - 00:02:18:17 And because in the secondary market, we've seen not only equities consolidate their gains, 00:02:18:17 - 00:02:23:12 but also we've seen convertibles in the secondary market trade back in, 00:02:23:12 - 00:02:28:10 a lot of the buyers on the convert side have now started to push back a little bit and demand a 00:02:28:10 - 00:02:33:06 higher value at issue than they had been even four to six weeks ago. 00:02:33:06 - 00:02:37:05 All that being said, volatility is still low. 00:02:37:05 - 00:02:40:00 Markets are still near all-time highs. 00:02:40:00 - 00:02:44:07 And I think what you're going to see is we have a couple of very large transactions 00:02:44:07 - 00:02:46:07 that investors are waiting to see. 00:02:46:07 - 00:02:49:17 And much like we saw in June when people were waiting for SpaceX, 00:02:49:17 - 00:02:53:19 I think you're going to see a number of issuers line up and wait, 00:02:53:19 - 00:02:57:17 and once one of the very large deals comes, if it does end up coming this year, 00:02:57:17 - 00:03:01:06 I think that might clear the path for people to come to market, 00:03:01:06 - 00:03:04:17 as well as a little change in expectations around valuation. 00:03:04:17 - 00:03:08:06 So we're still very optimistic about the rest of the year. 00:03:08:06 - 00:03:12:00 We just need a little less volatility in the broader markets over the next couple of weeks. 00:03:12:11 - 00:03:14:04 It's been extraordinarily active. 00:03:14:04 - 00:03:17:23 And some of these IPOs are just incredible in terms of their size. 00:03:17:23 - 00:03:21:00 So it is an exciting time from an equity capital markets perspective. 00:03:21:16 - 00:03:25:03 Similar with M&A, all the headlines would suggest it's also a banner year 00:03:25:03 - 00:03:26:18 in terms of M&A activity, Jessica. 00:03:27:09 - 00:03:29:17 Yeah, and that's exactly where I was going to start. 00:03:29:17 - 00:03:34:17 We've seen a very strong M&A market, not dissimilar to what we're seeing in the equity market, 00:03:34:17 - 00:03:41:10 particularly over, yes, the last year-to-date, but also the last 12 and 18 months. 00:03:41:10 - 00:03:43:08 We're seeing all-time highs. 00:03:43:08 - 00:03:47:06 I think the difference is where is the deal volume being driven from? 00:03:47:06 - 00:03:52:11 So we've seen a disproportionate number of transactions coming from large strategics. 00:03:52:11 - 00:03:55:12 So we're seeing a lot of really big deals get done. 00:03:55:12 - 00:03:59:18 And that's driving record numbers in the M&A market broadly. 00:03:59:18 - 00:04:04:06 But we are seeing less happening in the middle and lower market. 00:04:04:06 - 00:04:06:11 That has started to come around. 00:04:06:11 - 00:04:12:10 And that's where you really see a large volume on number of transactions within the M&A market. 00:04:12:10 - 00:04:15:03 So we are seeing that pick up. 00:04:15:03 - 00:04:20:10 But by and large, this year and last year were predominantly banner years 00:04:20:10 - 00:04:23:21 because we are seeing those massive deals get done 00:04:23:21 - 00:04:29:12 and a lot of strategics seeking growth and seeking that growth through acquiring 00:04:29:12 - 00:04:29:20 and a lot of strategics seeking growth and seeking that growth through acquiring 00:04:29:20 - 00:04:34:16 companies that they feel are in their industry or parallel industries 00:04:34:16 - 00:04:39:01 where there's a lot of synergies and they can extract growth in that way. 00:04:39:04 - 00:04:41:22 We have a very active equity capital market. 00:04:41:22 - 00:04:46:22 And from an M&A perspective, we have a very active strategic, top-end, 00:04:46:22 - 00:04:49:21 large transaction activity market. 00:04:49:21 - 00:04:54:10 But in that middle to lower end of the market, the activity isn't quite there. 00:04:54:10 - 00:04:56:10 And what I thought would be interesting to talk about today 00:04:56:10 - 00:05:02:04 is what kind of solutions are available to someone who is in that ballpark in terms of size, 00:05:02:04 - 00:05:06:03 perhaps a private equity sponsor who has an asset that would be capable of being listed, 00:05:06:03 - 00:05:08:20 but also could potentially be sold. 00:05:08:20 - 00:05:13:20 How do we think about potentially wrapping the two together as a solution to be a dual-track process 00:05:13:20 - 00:05:18:11 to maximize the value outcome for the ultimate owner of the asset? 00:05:18:11 - 00:05:24:10 And so maybe we could talk a little bit more about how we might think about a dual-track process. 00:05:24:10 - 00:05:28:09 The first question really is, how do you think about the right size for an asset? 00:05:28:09 - 00:05:30:03 Obviously, it's a very small asset. 00:05:30:03 - 00:05:32:06 It's not right for your markets, Josh. 00:05:32:06 - 00:05:37:15 If it's a very, very large asset, it may be more constraining to find the right buyer for that asset. 00:05:37:15 - 00:05:42:14 So when we think about what might be right for an asset size, for instance, or a particular industry 00:05:42:14 - 00:05:46:23 or dynamics in terms of growth or margin, how would you think about the right candidate 00:05:46:23 - 00:05:51:14 to pursue simultaneously both an IPO and an M&A solution 00:05:51:14 - 00:05:54:03 and being able to pick the right one at the end of the day? 00:05:54:10 - 00:05:56:21 Sure, from my perspective, 00:05:56:21 - 00:06:02:23 in order to be a good candidate from an ECM perspective for a dual track, 00:06:02:23 - 00:06:07:16 if it's a smaller asset, it's got to have growth and a lot of runway ahead of it, right? 00:06:07:16 - 00:06:13:06 Because what you don't want to have is a $2 billion market-cap company with very little growth 00:06:13:06 - 00:06:18:02 because investors just aren't going to be that interested in doing the work to 00:06:18:02 - 00:06:22:04 look at something that might grow mid-to-low single digits. 00:06:22:04 - 00:06:23:18 It's just not that exciting. 00:06:23:18 - 00:06:28:08 If you're going to have moderate growth, it has to be a very big business 00:06:28:08 - 00:06:31:06 from a cash-flow perspective, a lot of scale, 00:06:31:06 - 00:06:36:19 and the ability to make acquisitions over time and grow inorganically. 00:06:36:19 - 00:06:43:11 I think if you are a growth company, and we're looking at a situation right now with a 00:06:43:11 - 00:06:49:04 low-to-mid single-digit billion dollar company that is private equity backed, as you mentioned, 00:06:49:04 - 00:06:54:00 and they're thinking about a sell-side process, but they're also growing EBITDA 00:06:54:00 - 00:06:59:07 on a compound basis, probably 30% to 40% over the next several years. 00:06:59:07 - 00:07:05:03 And in 12 to 18 months, it will quickly grow to the size where the IPO market might be a much more 00:07:05:03 - 00:07:07:00 attractive exit for the sponsor 00:07:07:00 - 00:07:12:21 if they're willing to be patient with their liquidity and have the time horizon to wait for that liquidity. 00:07:12:21 - 00:07:12:22 if they're willing to be patient with their liquidity and have the time horizon to wait for that liquidity. 00:07:13:06 - 00:07:18:03 And Jessica, if we're thinking about using this as a potential tool for an owner of an asset 00:07:18:03 - 00:07:24:05 to achieve the best valuation possible by having an M&A process paired with the potential to go public, 00:07:24:05 - 00:07:27:05 how do you think of structuring that dual track? 00:07:27:05 - 00:07:32:15 What's the process that a company would run in order to be able to maximize both potential 00:07:32:15 - 00:07:34:19 outcomes in the most efficient way possible? 00:07:35:06 - 00:07:36:08 Yeah, so the most important thing to drive value in an M&A process is competitive tension. 00:07:36:08 - 00:07:40:22 Yeah, so the most important thing to drive value in an M&A process is competitive tension. 00:07:40:22 - 00:07:47:02 And as you've said, having a really viable and credible alternative to go to the public markets 00:07:47:02 - 00:07:50:13 can create another form of tension in addition to different buyers competing against each other. 00:07:50:13 - 00:07:53:00 can create another form of tension in addition to different buyers competing against each other. 00:07:53:00 - 00:07:55:17 As we think about how do we structure that process, 00:07:55:17 - 00:08:00:04 I think the key thing to create that tension is that it needs to be credible. 00:08:00:04 - 00:08:05:10 So you need to be actively pursuing both of those paths in earnest. 00:08:05:10 - 00:08:07:14 So you need to be actively pursuing both of those paths in earnest. 00:08:07:14 - 00:08:12:18 And as a result, you need to think through what are the steps you need to go take 00:08:12:18 - 00:08:14:04 to get through those processes. 00:08:14:04 - 00:08:14:21 I think the good— 00:08:14:21 - 00:08:21:01 The nice answer is that the start of both of those processes is preparation and preparing an asset 00:08:21:01 - 00:08:26:12 to be ready for sale is very similar to preparing an asset to be ready to go public. 00:08:26:12 - 00:08:26:15 to be ready for sale is very similar to preparing an asset to be ready to go public. 00:08:26:15 - 00:08:30:09 You need to get your marketing materials, you need to get your audits in place, 00:08:30:09 - 00:08:34:03 and you need to make sure that you have your governance structure really sound. 00:08:34:03 - 00:08:35:14 and you need to make sure that you have your governance structure really sound. 00:08:35:14 - 00:08:39:19 All of those things will help you in both processes and I think can be done in parallel. 00:08:39:19 - 00:08:39:21 All of those things will help you in both processes and I think can be done in parallel. 00:08:39:21 - 00:08:42:22 Outside of that, I think then you can start to think about how do we kick off these processes. 00:08:42:22 - 00:08:44:17 Outside of that, I think then you can start to think about how do we kick off these processes. 00:08:44:17 - 00:08:49:12 Maybe I'll talk a little bit about the M&A and you can get into the public markets. 00:08:49:12 - 00:08:50:22 But in M&A, we're creating those marketing materials, 00:08:50:22 - 00:08:52:21 But in M&A, we're creating those marketing materials, 00:08:52:21 - 00:08:56:21 we're determining who could be the potential buyers of this asset. 00:08:56:21 - 00:09:00:05 Are there any natural strategic buyers? 00:09:00:05 - 00:09:02:07 In an ideal process, you would have one to a handful of strategic counterparties 00:09:02:07 - 00:09:05:09 In an ideal process, you would have one to a handful of strategic counterparties 00:09:05:09 - 00:09:09:18 who would be interested in owning this asset for one reason or another. 00:09:09:18 - 00:09:12:22 If that is not the case or if that is the case, 00:09:12:22 - 00:09:17:04 there may also be private equity sponsors that you'd want to reach out to. 00:09:17:04 - 00:09:21:20 Once you've determined who the potential buyers of this asset are, you can use those marketing 00:09:21:20 - 00:09:28:00 materials to start outreach and start providing confidential information for the potential buyers 00:09:28:00 - 00:09:34:08 to come up to speed on the asset and eventually get to a point where you would seek a bid. 00:09:34:08 - 00:09:38:22 All of this could be done in parallel to starting to prepare for a public offering, 00:09:38:22 - 00:09:42:00 which I'll let Josh talk about those steps. 00:09:42:00 - 00:09:46:18 But essentially, you want to get bids in hand to be able to start seeing price discovery 00:09:46:18 - 00:09:52:11 so you have something to compare it to against what might be achievable in a public market. 00:09:52:20 - 00:09:59:02 In terms of preparation from an ECM perspective, what really is important is to start the S-1 process 00:09:59:02 - 00:10:03:15 and the diligence process, which you're already doing on the M&A side. 00:10:03:15 - 00:10:10:05 I think the JOBS Act changed how people use the dual-track process in the past, 00:10:10:05 - 00:10:16:09 which was you used to file an S-1, it was always public, and people would be able to look at the S-1 00:10:16:09 - 00:10:20:06 and decide, do I want to buy this company? 00:10:20:06 - 00:10:24:06 Is it actually going to go public instead of going down the sale route? 00:10:24:06 - 00:10:26:07 And now with the confidential filing, 00:10:26:07 - 00:10:30:13 that information isn't necessarily readily available for most companies. 00:10:30:13 - 00:10:33:13 But I do think that filing an S-1, 00:10:33:13 - 00:10:38:15 even if it's confidential, and showing the market that you are willing to go down that path 00:10:38:15 - 00:10:42:09 and you've announced to the world, because even though the filing itself is confidential, 00:10:42:09 - 00:10:46:01 everybody puts out a press release saying that we filed confidentially, 00:10:46:01 - 00:10:49:03 they just don't release the contents of the filing. 00:10:49:03 - 00:10:55:00 But that being said, you've announced that you're willing to go down the IPO route. 00:10:55:00 - 00:10:59:06 And I think that that provides that competitive tension on the M&A side 00:10:59:06 - 00:11:06:05 that if a company doesn't necessarily get the bids they want, whether it's a corporate that's 00:11:06:05 - 00:11:13:21 founder-backed or sponsor-backed, they have the ability to turn around and go down the IPO route 00:11:13:21 - 00:11:16:23 if they don't get the bids on the M&A side. 00:11:16:23 - 00:11:19:06 And we saw that a couple of years ago for a company called StandardAero 00:11:19:06 - 00:11:26:02 in the industrial space, which was getting bids from other private equity funds. 00:11:26:02 - 00:11:27:22 It was owned by a big private equity fund. 00:11:27:22 - 00:11:31:21 It was attracting bids from private equity funds, but it was of the size where 00:11:31:21 - 00:11:37:02 there weren't a ton of natural buyers, kind of like what you alluded to earlier, Kevin. 00:11:37:02 - 00:11:39:11 And ultimately what ended up happening is 00:11:39:11 - 00:11:43:18 the public markets paid more than four turns of EBITDA more for that business, 00:11:43:18 - 00:11:47:17 at least from what we understand, than the bids they were getting on the M&A side. 00:11:47:17 - 00:11:52:13 And that was a case where the sponsor was patient and was able to, 00:11:52:13 - 00:11:59:02 in subsequent follow-on offerings, sell down over time and achieve a much better liquidity outcome 00:11:59:02 - 00:12:04:03 despite the fact that they had to wait a bit to get full liquidity in that asset. 00:12:04:15 - 00:12:09:11 And has it accelerated the ability for a sponsor or any owner to sell down post-IPO 00:12:09:11 - 00:12:11:00 with some recent regulatory changes? 00:12:11:13 - 00:12:18:17 Yeah, the SEC announced that it has put up for consideration 00:12:18:17 - 00:12:24:19 rules that would effectively make every company immediately S-3 eligible post the IPO. 00:12:24:19 - 00:12:30:07 So historically, the rules stated that you had to wait a year prior to, 00:12:30:07 - 00:12:35:02 after being public, in order to be able to file an S-3 registration statement. 00:12:35:02 - 00:12:40:22 And what that did from an execution standpoint was in your first year, when you do a follow-on, 00:12:40:22 - 00:12:46:19 you're doing it off a Form S-1, which means you have to take 48 hours to market the transaction 00:12:46:19 - 00:12:49:10 for effectiveness reasons. 00:12:49:10 - 00:12:53:01 And that subjects you to market risk, right? 00:12:53:01 - 00:12:56:19 Even if your shares are trading, your stocks has been performing well, 00:12:56:19 - 00:13:02:15 if you go on a couple of days where the market has not—is not performing or your comps are down, 00:13:02:15 - 00:13:08:20 that can have a very negative impact on where you sell relative to where you launch the transaction. 00:13:08:20 - 00:13:10:13 And this new rule change, 00:13:10:13 - 00:13:15:12 it won't necessarily change how people approach lockups, but it will allow people to sell 00:13:15:12 - 00:13:19:16 either on an overnight basis or on a one-day marketed basis and remove some of that market 00:13:19:16 - 00:13:23:23 risk and hopefully make the IPO path and subsequent follow-on path 00:13:23:23 - 00:13:28:11 for sponsors a bit less risky than the sale process. 00:13:29:03 - 00:13:30:06 That's an impactful change. 00:13:30:10 - 00:13:31:04 Yeah, absolutely. 00:13:31:11 - 00:13:36:08 So what I'm hearing is that a lot of the information that's put together for a sale process or for an IPO 00:13:36:08 - 00:13:40:04 prospectus is largely the same, obviously a different format. 00:13:40:04 - 00:13:44:11 Can you talk about what additional time or expense is associated with pursuing 00:13:44:11 - 00:13:47:08 a dual-track process versus picking one over the other? 00:13:47:16 - 00:13:52:00 Either way, you're incurring legal costs, you're incurring accounting costs, 00:13:52:00 - 00:13:53:14 you're doing all the material prep. 00:13:53:14 - 00:13:58:13 I'd say you're probably layering in the incremental prep of the S-1 alongside 00:13:58:13 - 00:14:04:11 the offering documents on an M&A transaction. 00:14:04:11 - 00:14:07:11 I think though, at this point, 00:14:07:11 - 00:14:13:23 attorneys have got the IPO process and the S-1 process down to a science. 00:14:13:23 - 00:14:17:11 And I don't know that the incremental cost is really— 00:14:17:11 - 00:14:21:08 when you think about the incremental value you create by creating that competitive tension, 00:14:21:08 - 00:14:26:21 I don't know that the incremental costs come anywhere close to hopefully what kind of value 00:14:26:21 - 00:14:28:15 you create during the entire process. 00:14:28:23 - 00:14:33:07 Can we talk a little bit about the decision point that ultimately a company might have before then 00:14:33:07 - 00:14:36:00 if they do prosecute a dual-track process? 00:14:36:00 - 00:14:40:09 Obviously, there's some degree of price discovery that happens during an IPO process, 00:14:40:09 - 00:14:45:11 pre-pricing, and clearly there's different stages of bidding in an M&A process, 00:14:45:11 - 00:14:48:00 particularly a traditional two-step process. 00:14:48:00 - 00:14:51:08 How do these things all come together for someone to actually decide, 00:14:51:08 - 00:14:52:22 “I'm going to go left or I'm going to go right?” 00:14:53:21 - 00:14:58:18 From my standpoint, it's really up until you launch the roadshow. 00:14:58:18 - 00:15:05:04 I think that there's always a negotiation back and forth in a dual-track situation where a buyer is 00:15:05:04 - 00:15:09:23 trying to convince the seller to come to terms with them with that IPO still 00:15:09:23 - 00:15:12:18 as the competitive tension threat. 00:15:12:18 - 00:15:13:15 And I think the reality is once you launch the IPO, 00:15:13:15 - 00:15:16:07 And I think the reality is once you launch the IPO, 00:15:16:07 - 00:15:21:02 you've basically made the decision, “I'm not going to get what I want in the M&A market.” 00:15:21:02 - 00:15:26:00 But I think right up until that point, there is a back and forth between buyer and seller 00:15:26:00 - 00:15:32:21 to try to get to a point of agreement in terms of valuation that really, it's up until the last week 00:15:32:21 - 00:15:38:21 and a half of what really is the roadshow between launch of the roadshow and pricing. 00:15:38:21 - 00:15:41:12 And it’s—you know, that's really not a large chunk 00:15:41:12 - 00:15:44:16 of time that's taken away from the negotiation process. 00:15:44:16 - 00:15:50:05 So it's really up until that last minute where you put a prospectus out with a price range 00:15:50:05 - 00:15:55:18 and share count on the cover and start creating meetings with institutional investors. 00:15:55:18 - 00:15:58:10 That's sort of the point of no return. 00:15:58:10 - 00:16:03:15 Although legally it doesn't have to be, but practically that's usually when 00:16:03:15 - 00:16:06:16 people have made that decision that they're going to pursue the IPO path. 00:16:07:16 - 00:16:11:22 And if we think a little bit anecdotally about, as you're going through the M&A process, 00:16:11:22 - 00:16:14:06 at what stage would you maybe say, 00:16:14:06 - 00:16:19:04 “I have enough in the M&A, I have enough demand for the M&A that maybe I won't 00:16:19:04 - 00:16:22:11 actually take it that far in the IPO.” 00:16:22:11 - 00:16:26:11 And I think all of that is exactly as we talked about at the beginning, 00:16:26:11 - 00:16:32:04 really reliant on whether or not you have buyers that are willing and able 00:16:32:04 - 00:16:34:05 to pay what we call a control premium. 00:16:34:05 - 00:16:40:00 So looking at what companies in these sectors trade at in the public markets, 00:16:40:00 - 00:16:44:18 generally speaking, a control premium would be higher than that. 00:16:44:18 - 00:16:51:03 So if you have buyers that say, I really want to own this asset, I believe that the IPO is a viable option. 00:16:51:03 - 00:16:54:22 It's likely to trade in this range based on public comparables. 00:16:54:22 - 00:17:01:12 If I offer above that in a control premium, can I make the sellers determine that we should 00:17:01:12 - 00:17:05:15 stop with the IPO and go down the path of M&A? 00:17:05:15 - 00:17:10:15 And even beyond that, can I offer even maybe a little more to get them to go into exclusivity with me 00:17:10:15 - 00:17:12:21 to see if we can run to the finish line to get the sale done? 00:17:13:05 - 00:17:15:11 —To preempt the sale, absolutely. 00:17:15:11 - 00:17:20:23 What I like about this process is the level of optionality it gives our clients to be able to make 00:17:20:23 - 00:17:25:09 a decision at the furthest possible point along so they have full information 00:17:25:09 - 00:17:27:18 before they actually make a call. 00:17:27:18 - 00:17:32:04 Josh, Jessica, thank you for the great discussion and for joining us today on M&A Corner. 00:17:32:04 - 00:17:34:05 Josh, I know this is unique for you, but you're welcome back 00:17:34:05 - 00:17:36:04 anytime as an ECM banker. 00:17:36:04 - 00:17:37:22 We’ll look forward to seeing you next time.